good morning. we've had the nurses, the train and bus drivers, the ambulance workers, and many others. now, teachers are preparing to go on strike. classrooms will fall silent this week. thousands of teachers in england and wales will be following their scottish colleagues to the picket line. their scottish colleagues to the picket line-— their scottish colleagues to the icket line. , , ., ~ h, picket line. unless we take some siunificant picket line. unless we take some significant action, _ picket line. unless we take some significant action, i _ picket line. unless we take some significant action, i don't - picket line. unless we take some significant action, i don't think i significant action, i don't think the government will change. the -rofession the government will change. the profession says it is at breaking point, but what are parents and pupils meant to do? i point, but what are parents and pupils meant to do?— pupils meant to do? i 'ust think that it's ridiculous _ pupils meant to do? ijust think that it's ridiculous that - pupils meant to do? ijust think that it's ridiculous that they - pupils meant to do? ijust think that it's ridiculous that they are i that it's ridiculous that they are doing _ that it's ridiculous that they are doing this — that it's ridiculous that they are doing this again.— that it's ridiculous that they are doing this again. more strikes will mark the prime _ doing this again. more strikes will mark the prime minister's - doing this again. more strikes will mark the prime minister's first. doing this again. more strikes willl mark the prime minister's first 100 daysin mark the prime minister's first 100 days in thejob. he gathered his troops in the countryside, but his attempts to crack on our still clogged up with claims about the tax

of one of his ministers.— of one of his ministers. there are no penalties _ of one of his ministers. there are no penalties for _ of one of his ministers. there are no penalties for innocent - of one of his ministers. there are no penalties for innocent errors l of one of his ministers. there are| no penalties for innocent errors in your tax affairs. find no penalties for innocent errors in your tax affairs.— your tax affairs. and a sense that nothin: is your tax affairs. and a sense that nothing is working _ your tax affairs. and a sense that nothing is working has _ your tax affairs. and a sense that nothing is working has even - your tax affairs. and a sense that i nothing is working has even spread to rock superstars. i nothing is working has even spread to rock superstars.— to rock superstars. i personally have been _ to rock superstars. i personally have been touring _ to rock superstars. i personally have been touring for - to rock superstars. i personally have been touring for a - to rock superstars. i personally have been touring for a long i to rock superstars. i personally i have been touring for a long time but i _ have been touring for a long time but i think— have been touring for a long time but i think this government should stand _ but i think this government should stand down now. so but i think this government should stand down now.— but i think this government should stand down now. so we have one big auestion stand down now. so we have one big question this — stand down now. so we have one big question this morning _ stand down now. so we have one big question this morning - _ stand down now. so we have one big question this morning - after - stand down now. so we have one big| question this morning - after months question this morning — after months of industrial action, when will the strikes finally end? in the last two minutes, the chairman of the conservative party, nadhim zahawi, has been sacked after a row over his tax affairs. i will be asking the cabinet minister about that. the woman who would be in charge of schools under labour, bridget philipson, will be here, on a school strikes. and for her first broadcast interview since making the journey across the atlantic, american's ambassador to the ukjane hartley is with us. and it is sunday so let's have some stardust. i've been talking to actorsjenna coleman and aidan turner about politics and performance when things go bad. and

a big welcome to my guests at the desk. rememberthis? a big welcome to my guests at the desk. remember this?— a big welcome to my guests at the desk. remember this? brexit is not a name, desk. remember this? brexit is not a game. huh? — desk. remember this? brexit is not a game. huh? the _ desk. remember this? brexit is not a game, huh? the man _ desk. remember this? brexit is not a game, huh? the man who _ desk. remember this? brexit is not a game, huh? the man who was - desk. remember this? brexit is not a game, huh? the man who was soak, | desk. remember this? brexit is not a i game, huh? the man who was soak, but will he be counted _ game, huh? the man who was soak, but will he be counted today? _ game, huh? the man who was soak, but will he be counted today? three - will he be counted today? three years ago this week we left the eu. this morning, brussels' brexit man michel barnier is here, along with the head of the teachers union the neu mary bousted and the self—proclaimed strictest head teacher in the country and until last month the government's of social mobility advisor katharine birbalsingh, so pay attention! a very good morning. whether you are a teacher, a parent, grandparent or a teacher, a parent, grandparent or a pupil, keep watching, because

teachers in england and wales are preparing tojoin their teachers in england and wales are preparing to join their scottish colleagues on strike. as we go on air this morning, colleagues on strike. as we go on airthis morning, news colleagues on strike. as we go on air this morning, news in the last couple of minutes that after many days of questions and claims about his tax affairs, the conservative party chairman nadhim zahawi has been sacked, and we will get into that with michael gove. but i want to bring you the front pages this morning. they don't reflect that story because it has just broken in the last few minutes. you can see the last few minutes. you can see the sunday times talking about michael gove, who has done an interview talking about grenfell and building standards, we will talk to him about that in a few minutes. the observer featuring that story about nadhim zahawi, claiming that the prime minister was warned about the risk of his tax affairs. other papers going on all sorts of different subjects, the sunday telegraph talking about the government's plans for the nhs and two of the scottish papers covering a very interesting story about a transgender prisoner and a suggestion about where he or she should be held. so, lots to talk about and we will speak about nadhim

zahawi in a few minutes. michel barnier, great to have you with us, and the two of you will speak about school strikes later in the programme, but firstly i want to ask you about brexit. it is the three—year anniversary, or birthday, this week. we are about to speak to michael gove who of course was one of the main cheerleaders for brexit. what would you ask him if you were asking the questions?— what would you ask him if you were asking the questions? festival, good mornin: asking the questions? festival, good morning laura _ asking the questions? festival, good morning laura and _ asking the questions? festival, good morning laura and i _ asking the questions? festival, good morning laura and i am _ asking the questions? festival, good morning laura and i am glad - asking the questions? festival, good morning laura and i am glad to - asking the questions? festival, good morning laura and i am glad to be i morning laura and i am glad to be here, thank you for your invitation. three years after brexit, nobody put into question the brexit on our side, the point is, whether we are able or not to find a solution and to normalise our relations and to go ahead under the protocol of northern ireland. i think there is a way to find a solution in the next few days or a few weeks, but i think that there is another question for michael gove. when the british

government negotiate and agree an agreement, internationalagreement, the house of commons voted for it, my question is, do you implement it? do you honour it? that is my question. do you honour it? that is my question-— do you honour it? that is my cuestion. . , ., ., question. and you feel that the british covenant _ question. and you feel that the british covenant has _ question. and you feel that the british covenant has not, - question. and you feel that the british covenant has not, or. question. and you feel that the l british covenant has not, or has? not yet. british covenant has not, or has? not et. ~ , ., ., british covenant has not, or has? not yet-_ iti not yet. we will put that to... it is a key question _ not yet. we will put that to... it is a key question for— not yet. we will put that to... it is a key question for peace, - not yet. we will put that to... it is a key question for peace, and | is a key question for peace, and when you speak about northern ireland, it is not a question of trade or goods, it is a question of peace and stubble to cover the people of northern ireland need clarity and stubble at the sooner. —— peace and stability. i clarity and stubble at the sooner. -- peace and stability.— -- peace and stability. i want to ask ou -- peace and stability. i want to ask you quickly _ -- peace and stability. i want to ask you quickly for _ -- peace and stability. i want to ask you quickly for your - -- peace and stability. i want to ask you quickly for your reaction -- peace and stability. i want to i ask you quickly for your reaction to the news that nadhim zahawi has been sacked, we understand it has been found that he did break the mysterio code, what do you think about that, mary? h code, what do you think about that, ma ? ., code, what do you think about that, ma ? . . ., , code, what do you think about that, ma ? . ., ., , ., .,

mary? i am glad he has gone, i mean, i have to mary? i am glad he has gone, i mean, i have to ask— mary? i am glad he has gone, i mean, i have to ask the _ mary? i am glad he has gone, i mean, i have to ask the question, _ mary? i am glad he has gone, i mean, i have to ask the question, what - mary? i am glad he has gone, i mean, i have to ask the question, what you i i have to ask the question, what you do to— i have to ask the question, what you do to resign? for should have resigneu _ do to resign? for should have resigned. when he carelessly forgot that he _ resigned. when he carelessly forgot that he had not paid millions in tax briefly— that he had not paid millions in tax briefly when he was chancellor, why did he _ briefly when he was chancellor, why did he think he could carry on being in post? _ did he think he could carry on being in post? it's— did he think he could carry on being in post? it's ridiculous. where are we with— in post? it's ridiculous. where are we with the — in post? it's ridiculous. where are we with the standards in public life where, _ we with the standards in public life where, a _ we with the standards in public life where, a week or more after the event, _ where, a week or more after the event, the — where, a week or more after the event, the prime ministerfinally decides — event, the prime ministerfinally decides to— event, the prime ministerfinally decides to do what he should have done _ decides to do what he should have done right— decides to do what he should have done right at the beginning, which is at least — done right at the beginning, which is at least suspending as chair of the tory— is at least suspending as chair of the tory party, while these issues were _ the tory party, while these issues were investigated. the the tory party, while these issues were investigated.— were investigated. the prime minister chose _ were investigated. the prime minister chose to _ were investigated. the prime minister chose to follow - were investigated. the prime minister chose to follow a i were investigated. the prime - minister chose to follow a process and have an investigation and we have now got the letter from the ethics adviser who has written... i consider nadhim zahawi, in holding the privilege of being a minister of the privilege of being a minister of the crown, has shown insufficient look for the ministerial code, and he has there for been sacked and removed by the prime minister. katharine we will talk about school strikes later in the programme, but you were working for the government until relatively recently, you decided to leave your post as a

social military commission, but what have you made of all of this, the minister trying to hang on despite all the brouhaha?— minister trying to hang on despite all the brouhaha? well, in politics and sometimes _ all the brouhaha? well, in politics and sometimes they _ all the brouhaha? well, in politics and sometimes they hang - all the brouhaha? well, in politics and sometimes they hang on - all the brouhaha? well, in politics and sometimes they hang on and | all the brouhaha? well, in politics - and sometimes they hang on and they are fine, and sometimes they can't. if he has broken the ministerial code, then obviously he needs to go so that sounds to be like the right decision. we so that sounds to be like the right decision. ~ ., so that sounds to be like the right decision. ~ . ., _, , decision. we will hear in a couple of seconds _ decision. we will hear in a couple of seconds from _ decision. we will hear in a couple of seconds from michael - decision. we will hear in a couple of seconds from michael gove i decision. we will hear in a couple i of seconds from michael gove about that, but that dramatic news breaking as we come on air this morning, when this time last week in the studio ministers were trying to get him to cling on. all three of you stay with us for now. now there let's put that to michael gove. why did rishi sunak hang on to nadim zahawi for that time, why didn't he realise he just had to go some weeks ago when these allegations first came about? mr go, let's put that straight to you, why has he gone, and should he have gone earlier? good morning. well, due process matters. so, when facts emerged about the position in which nadhim

found himself, the prime minister said we needed an independent investigation, and the independent adviser on ethics and ministerial standards was asked to rapidly assess the situation, he concluded his report, he wrote to the prime minister i think early today and there the prime minister immediately upon receipt of the letter decided that nadhim could no longer stay in the cabinet. but that nadhim could no longer stay in the cabinet-— that nadhim could no longer stay in the cabinet. �* , , , ., ., the cabinet. but wise seven days ago did nadhim zahawi _ the cabinet. but wise seven days ago did nadhim zahawi and _ the cabinet. but wise seven days ago did nadhim zahawi and rishi - the cabinet. but wise seven days ago did nadhim zahawi and rishi sunak l did nadhim zahawi and rishi sunak appear to think that it was ok for somebody who had paid a penalty to the taxman while being the boss of the taxman while being the boss of the taxman while being the boss of the taxman to stay in post? because i think to many of our viewers, last week that seemed absolutely blatantly like something that was not sustainable? this blatantly like something that was not sustainable?— not sustainable? as ever, it is alwa s not sustainable? as ever, it is always important _ not sustainable? as ever, it is always important to _ not sustainable? as ever, it is always important to make - not sustainable? as ever, it is| always important to make sure that all the facts are investigated fully and properly. and that is why the independent investigator concluded as he did, and why the prime minister has acted as he did. as a general i think it is important that allegations should be investigated

properly, but also we should not rush tojudgment before properly, but also we should not rush to judgment before there has been that investigation, and again, the specific issues of the tax affairs of an individual require in circumstances like this a cool forensic analysis, and that is what was provided. i forensic analysis, and that is what was provided-— forensic analysis, and that is what was provided. i supposed question that our viewers _ was provided. i supposed question that our viewers might _ was provided. i supposed question that our viewers might have - was provided. i supposed question that our viewers might have this i that our viewers might have this morning is that when nadhim zahawi ran briefly to become leader of the conservative party, he pulled out sharpish because there were questions about his tax affairs, this is not something that has come completely and utterly out of the blue, and some of your backbenchers, some of your colleagues and some of our viewers this morning, will have questions therefore about why he was given this job in the first place? again, nadhim is a friend of mine so i cannot take anyjoy in the fact that these events have played out today in the way that they have. but my understanding is that nadhim

cooperated completely fully with the investigation, hid nothing from sir laurie magnus, and was very eager to make sure that sir laurie magnus had all of the facts... he make sure that sir laurie magnus had all of the facts. . .— all of the facts. .. he didn't really have a choice. _ all of the facts. .. he didn't really have a choice. no, _ all of the facts. .. he didn't really have a choice. no, quite. - all of the facts. .. he didn't really have a choice. no, quite. in - all of the facts. .. he didn't reallyj have a choice. no, quite. in fact, recently there _ have a choice. no, quite. in fact, recently there was _ have a choice. no, quite. in fact, recently there was never - have a choice. no, quite. in fact, recently there was never any - recently there was never any question about what had happened, but he tried for a long time, even accusing journalists who were trying to —— of trying to smear him, who were looking at this, and it seems that he tried for a long time not to come clean. that he tried for a long time not to come clean-— come clean. again, it is what sir laurie magnus — come clean. again, it is what sir laurie magnus feels _ come clean. again, it is what sir laurie magnus feels nadhim - come clean. again, it is what sir laurie magnus feels nadhim did | laurie magnus feels nadhim did wrong, with respect to the ministerial code, and how serious that is. i think the letter and the decision speaks for itself. but again, when it comes to the position that you mentioned last summer, and nadhim's decisions then, my understanding is that there was no information that was brought to the attention of the prime minister or indeed liz truss, which would have led them to believe at the time that it was inappropriate to have nadhim

on the team was isn't it incumbent on the team was isn't it incumbent on any leader to ask, to check, to doublecheck, if, as rishi sunak once, to run a government, he says, of the highest integrity, factionalism and accountability, shouldn't he have checked, frankly? again, to the best of my knowledge, was no alert that was given to either rishi sunak or two liz truss, so, again, westminster will always have rumours, speculation, speculatively reporting. it have rumours, speculation, speculatively reporting. it was in some newspapers _ speculatively reporting. it was in some newspapers over - speculatively reporting. it was in some newspapers overtime, - speculatively reporting. it was in | some newspapers over time, and speculatively reporting. it was in l some newspapers over time, and i know you are someone who reads the newspapers with great great care and attention as a formerjournalist, do you think it really stands this morning to sit there and say, nobody could have known anything about this until the last days?— untilthe last days? well, i think what it does _ untilthe last days? well, i think what it does reinforce _ untilthe last days? well, i think what it does reinforce is - untilthe last days? well, i think what it does reinforce is the - untilthe last days? well, i think| what it does reinforce is the vital importance of having a system that works, and a system which means that when you do have allegations of whatever level of seriousness, that it can be investigated in a way which provides the prime minister or

the decision—maker with the facts laid out. i have seen, on occasions, individuals including people not in my own party harry and pursued by media inquiries, perfectly legitimate investigative journalism, but actually when the truth emerges, the individual concerned is not guilty as charged, and we need to maintain the principle that an individual is innocent until all of those facts are there clearly established.— those facts are there clearly established. but in this case, secretary _ established. but in this case, secretary of _ established. but in this case, secretary of state, _ established. but in this case, secretary of state, your - established. but in this case, | secretary of state, your friend nadhim zahawi, somebody who is very popular in the conservative party, in this case, he accused people who were looking at this issue and writing about it of trying to smear him, should he say sorry for that? again, i am sure nadhim will be reflected today on... i again, i am sure nadhim will be reflected today on. . ._ again, i am sure nadhim will be reflected today on... i am asking ou, he reflected today on... i am asking you. he is _ reflected today on. .. i am asking you. he is not— reflected today on... i am asking you, he is not here. _ reflected today on... i am asking you, he is not here. no, - reflected today on... i am asking you, he is not here. no, quite, l reflected today on... i am askingl you, he is not here. no, quite, on this whole — you, he is not here. no, quite, on this whole question. _ you, he is not here. no, quite, on this whole question. and - you, he is not here. no, quite, on this whole question. and again, i | you, he is not here. no, quite, on. this whole question. and again, i am not going to instruct him on... he will have a chance to reflect. does it not, will have a chance to reflect. does it not. though. — will have a chance to reflect. does it not, though, to _ will have a chance to reflect. does it not, though, to some _ will have a chance to reflect. does

it not, though, to some of - will have a chance to reflect. does it not, though, to some of our - it not, though, to some of our viewers this morning, reinforce what many of them may think, is that you have conservative politicians, time after time, trying to follow their own set of rules, not the set of rules that everybody else has to follow? ., rules that everybody else has to follow? . ., ._ , rules that everybody else has to follow? . ., , , ., , ., follow? there are always people who short whether _ follow? there are always people who short whether it _ follow? there are always people who short whether it is _ follow? there are always people who short whether it is in _ follow? there are always people who short whether it is in politics - follow? there are always people who short whether it is in politics or - short whether it is in politics or other parts of public life or in professional life or in any area. so, because someone commits a lapse or a sin, that should not be automatically taken as an opportunity to damn an entire organisation or a way of working. i think the critical thing... the think the critical thing. .. the perception — think the critical thing. .. the perception it _ think the critical thing. .. the perception it gives _ think the critical thing... the perception it gives of your party andindeed perception it gives of your party and indeed of this prime minister because he is not the only minister there have been problems with. there is an investigation into dominic raab, very serious bullying claims, rishi sunak already had to get rid of gavin williamson for sending pretty unpleasant texts to his colleagues, this isn't the only problem, and your leader came to powerfrom missing the problem, and your leader came to power from missing the country something different, saying to people, i am going to draw a line

over all these things are swelling around over sleaze and the kind of disregard for the rules that many people felt the former administration did far too often. again, it is a serious charge and it is one that i take profoundly seriously. so, the first thing is, rishi sunak�*s whole way of operating is driven by a sense of duty and a sense of profound moral seriousness. that means that when an allegation is put against someone, he doesn't immediately think, ok, i am is put against someone, he doesn't immediately think, ok, iam in political difficulty, let me deal with this in the fashion that the cynic might imagine was white. i will do right by the individual accused, but i will also do right by the process overall. and i think thatis the process overall. and i think that is an admirable approach to take. your second point is, does this particular incident reflect on the conservative party? i think any governing party, when there are allegations about its members or about politicians overall, there is

about politicians overall, there is a particular burden. i would say, i am not trying to, in anyway, shift lame or responsibility for faults that exist within our own party but i think it is always the case, if you look at politics overall, or other areas, there are always examples of individuals whose conduct for short. but examples of individuals whose conduct for short.— examples of individuals whose conduct for short. but there are several examples _ conduct for short. but there are several examples in _ conduct for short. but there are several examples in a _ conduct for short. but there are several examples in a very - conduct for short. but there are several examples in a very new| several examples in a very new administration. rishi sunak is about to hit his 100 day milestone and there have been several of these kinds of things popping up. is it callous, is it bad judgment, surely it reflects on him? what reflects on him is the determination he has. when we met earlier this week as a cabinet, the prime minister made clear to us the vital importance which we all recognise in each of the areas for which we are responsible of delivery. departures like nadhim

zahawi's are newsworthy, sad for the individual concerned and invite speculation, but in government we are getting on with having inflation, reducing debt, generating growth, making sure we deal with the waiting lists in the nhs and stop the boats crossing the channel. just briefl , the boats crossing the channel. just briefly. and — the boats crossing the channel. just briefly, and we will move on because people want to know what's happening in schools this week, but this is a yes or no answer. can you guarantee our view is that no other government minister will end up having to quit over any financial wrongdoing or mess over their tax affairs? well, to the best _ mess over their tax affairs? well, to the best of _ mess over their tax affairs? well, to the best of my _ mess over their tax affairs? well, to the best of my knowledge - mess over their tax affairs? well, to the best of my knowledge i - mess over their tax affairs? h to the best of my knowledge i can't think of anyone who would be in that position. i can't make windows into men's souls or women's. i can't know that there isn't someone anywhere in politics or elsewhere who might not have through an advert and is or a

desire to cut corners done something wrong. all i would say is that in a properly christian sense, we should be ready to forgive as well as to judge. be ready to forgive as well as to 'ud . e, ., . , be ready to forgive as well as to 'ud a e. . . , . be ready to forgive as well as to we , ., ., be ready to forgive as well as to 'udte, .,. , ., ., ~ ., , judge. teachers in england and wales are this week— judge. teachers in england and wales are this week planning _ judge. teachers in england and wales are this week planning to _ judge. teachers in england and wales are this week planning to follow - are this week planning to follow their colleagues in scotland out of their colleagues in scotland out of the classroom and onto the picket line. forfamilies, parents, line. for families, parents, grandparents, line. forfamilies, parents, grandparents, pupils watching this morning, that will cause huge disruption. how has the government allowed this to happen? the disruption. how has the government allowed this to happen?— allowed this to happen? the first thin to allowed this to happen? the first thing to say _ allowed this to happen? the first thing to say is — allowed this to happen? the first thing to say is i _ allowed this to happen? the first thing to say is i know _ allowed this to happen? the first thing to say is i know my - allowed this to happen? the first thing to say is i know my son - allowed this to happen? the first thing to say is i know my son is l allowed this to happen? the first| thing to say is i know my son is in school doing his a—levels this year, he will be affected by the strike and i don't want to apportion blame or responsibility towards any particular individual. so or responsibility towards any particular individual.- or responsibility towards any particular individual. so is it a collective _ particular individual. so is it a collective failure? _ particular individual. so is it a collective failure? there - particular individual. so is it a collective failure? there are l collective failure? there are several things _ collective failure? there are several things at _ collective failure? there are several things at work - collective failure? there are several things at work here. collective failure? there are - several things at work here. there are lots of people in the public sector concerned because the rate of inflation means their pay has fallen, that is true for everyone in the country and that's why having inflation is so important. that

the country and that's why having inflation is so important.- inflation is so important. that is the bank inflation is so important. that is the itank of _ inflation is so important. that is the bank of england's _ inflation is so important. that is the bank of england's job - inflation is so important. that is the bank of england's job and i inflation is so important. that is. the bank of england's job and not just down to the government but teachers are getting poorer, for months they have been trying to talk to the department for education about this, and the government and unions have not been able to prevent a situation where families will have lots of disruption this week.- lots of disruption this week. again, the education _ lots of disruption this week. again, the education secretary _ lots of disruption this week. again, the education secretary has - lots of disruption this week. again, the education secretary has said i the education secretary has said teachers don't need to go on strike to get her attention. gillian keegan is a thoughtful and and caring secretary of state. she has looking forensically at the issues we have an education and wants to avoid the need for strike action. as you point out there has been strike action already in scotland and so this is a problem, a challenge exists across the united kingdom. so, you know, nicola sturgeon is grappling with it in the same way we are grappling with it here and it is a consequence of the broader economic challenges that we face, and that is why, if we

want to halve inflation and get growth growing and reduce debt, we need to make sure the public finances are stabilised. that's what rishi sunak and jeremy have done. the pledges have given you a tongue twister but i'm sure with a bit of practice it will be rolling off the tongue before long. i want to ask about housing. this comes under your responsibility as government. you have said this morning government shares some of the responsibility for the tragedy of grenfell. why has it taken six years for a government minister to concede that? the rinci al minister to concede that? the principal reason _ minister to concede that? tue: principal reason has minister to concede that? tta: principal reason has been we minister to concede that? t'ta: principal reason has been we want minister to concede that? tta: principal reason has been we want to let the inquiry conclude. six. principal reason has been we want to let the inquiry conclude.— let the inquiry conclude. six years? nobody needs _ let the inquiry conclude. six years? nobody needs to _ let the inquiry conclude. six years? nobody needs to tell— let the inquiry conclude. six years? nobody needs to tell me _ let the inquiry conclude. six years? nobody needs to tell me how- nobody needs to tell me how desperately important it was to deal with all of the issues that were provoked by the fire at grenfell tower. it was a horrendous tragedy.

it was a tragedy for everyone directly involved, the people who lost their lives, the people in that community, but it also had ramifications which have gone on for years not properly addressed. again, i'm not going to blame any individual, that would be wrong. it's my responsibility to deal with it and tomorrow i will be publishing a contract that will say to the developer is concerned, people who put up buildings which are unsafe, look, you now have... and as you said, you will have an opportunity to put that right to make them safe. what you are also right, government, and it's not the fault again of any ministerial departments are administration, it was collected over many years. tt administration, it was collected over many years.— administration, it was collected over many years. it was a collective failure of government. _ over many years. it was a collective failure of government. and - over many years. it was a collective failure of government. and a - over many years. it was a collective j failure of government. and a failure to keep people safe. fin failure of government. and a failure to keep people safe.— to keep people safe. on that question. — to keep people safe. on that question. you _ to keep people safe. on that question, you say _ to keep people safe. on that question, you say it - to keep people safe. on that question, you say it was - to keep people safe. on that question, you say it was a i question, you say it was a collective failure of government

that allowed that to happen, so in that allowed that to happen, so in that last six years since the terrible fire, how many blocks have been fixed? because injune there been fixed? because in june there was a freedom been fixed? because injune there was a freedom of information request that said there were still more than 9000 buildings that were unsafe because of fire safety or some other kind of risk. how many have been fixed now? qt kind of risk. how many have been fixed now?— fixed now? of the buildings which were most dangerous, _ fixed now? of the buildings which were most dangerous, those - fixed now? of the buildings which were most dangerous, those over fixed now? of the buildings which l were most dangerous, those over 11 metres, we have made significant progress on... there are buildings between 11 and 18 metres which do need to be addressed, far too many, and it's because we haven't had a action that i am publishing the contracts tomorrow demanding the developers... contracts tomorrow demanding the developers- - -_ developers... how many of those buildinus developers... how many of those buildings are _ developers. .. how many of those buildings are still— developers... how many of those buildings are still on _ developers... how many of those buildings are still on save - developers... how many of those buildings are still on save six - buildings are still on save six years on? do you know the answer? —— still unsafe? t years on? do you know the answer? -- still unsafe?— still unsafe? i would say of the buildinus still unsafe? i would say of the buildings most _ still unsafe? i would say of the buildings most unsafe, - still unsafe? i would say of the buildings most unsafe, over i still unsafe? i would say of the buildings most unsafe, over 18j buildings most unsafe, over 18 metres, the vast majority have now

been remediated and the situation addressed. there are buildings at a lower level where the risks are smaller but are still unsafe and work requires to be done. we will watch with _ work requires to be done. we will watch with interest _ work requires to be done. we will watch with interest as _ work requires to be done. we will watch with interest as the - work requires to be done. we will watch with interest as the full - watch with interest as the full details of your announcement come later this week. as michel barnier is here, the third anniversary of brexit this week, he wanted me to ask you, is the uk government a country that on his deal is that it signs? country that on his deal is that it sins? ~ , ,., , country that on his deal is that it signs?_ that's - country that on his deal is that it signs?_ that's not. country that on his deal is that it l signs?_ that's not what signs? absolutely. that's not what he sa s. signs? absolutely. that's not what he says. michel— signs? absolutely. that's not what he says. michel and _ signs? absolutely. that's not what he says. michel and i _ signs? absolutely. that's not what he says. michel and i have - signs? absolutely. that's not what he says. michel and i have not - he says. michel and i have not alwa s he says. michel and i have not always seen — he says. michel and i have not always seen eye _ he says. michel and i have not always seen eye to _ he says. michel and i have not always seen eye to eye, - he says. michel and i have not. always seen eye to eye, admire he says. michel and i have not - always seen eye to eye, admire him as i do. one of the things about the protocol, and it was there in the original agreement was signed, is that a special committee was set up to look at the way in which it operated because both sides acknowledged that in its operation we might need to adjust things. to be fair, the current commission and the current irish government have said the protocol as it was drawn up was implemented too tightly. so

you had leo varadkar and acknowledging that change needs to come. we acknowledging that change needs to come. ~ ., acknowledging that change needs to come. . ., ., ., ., ., acknowledging that change needs to come. ., ., ., ., ., , come. we have got through a lot this mornin: , come. we have got through a lot this morning. so — come. we have got through a lot this morning, so thank— come. we have got through a lot this morning, so thank you _ come. we have got through a lot this morning, so thank you for _ come. we have got through a lot this morning, so thank you for discussing | morning, so thank you for discussing that breaking news. the prime minister got the report from the ethics adviser into nadhim zahawi this morning and sacked him. so now nadhim zahawi is out of government. let's ask the panel about things that perhaps affect people closer to home. mary, having heard michael gove there, is there anything you think can stop the strikes going ahead? trio. anything you think can stop the strikes going ahead?— anything you think can stop the strikes going ahead? no, i'm afraid not. the government _ strikes going ahead? no, i'm afraid not. the government has _ strikes going ahead? no, i'm afraid not. the government hasjust - strikes going ahead? no, i'm afraid | not. the government hasjust failed not. the government has just failed to engage with unions representing

teachers. we have had no negotiations.— teachers. we have had no negotiations. teachers. we have had no neuotiations. ., �* , a ., negotiations. non-? because michael gove said the — negotiations. non-? because michael gove said the education _ negotiations. non-? because michael gove said the education secretary - negotiations. non-? because michael gove said the education secretary is l gove said the education secretary is attentive, looking for solutions, trying to be helpful. t’m attentive, looking for solutions, trying to be helpful.— attentive, looking for solutions, trying to be helpful. i'm glad she is warm but _ trying to be helpful. i'm glad she is warm but she _ trying to be helpful. i'm glad she is warm but she has _ trying to be helpful. i'm glad she is warm but she has not - trying to be helpful. i'm glad she is warm but she has not been i trying to be helpful. i'm glad she - is warm but she has not been looking for solutions this year. the pay review should have been published on friday, it's not been published, we think the reason for that is we think the reason for that is we think what they are prepared to offer is so unacceptable they don't want to put it forward. [30 offer is so unacceptable they don't want to put it forward.— want to put it forward. do you -- strike action _ want to put it forward. do you -- strike action will _ want to put it forward. do you -- strike action will cause _ want to put it forward. do you --j strike action will cause disruption to many parents, is this the best thing to do? tt’s to many parents, is this the best thing to do?— to many parents, is this the best thin to do? �*, ., , , thing to do? it's not the best thing to do and we _ thing to do? it's not the best thing to do and we don't _ thing to do? it's not the best thing to do and we don't want _ thing to do? it's not the best thing to do and we don't want to - thing to do? it's not the best thing to do and we don't want to do - thing to do? it's not the best thing to do and we don't want to do it. l to do and we don't want to do it. why are you doing it then? because there are two other teaching unions not going on strike. thea;r there are two other teaching unions not going on strike.—

not going on strike. they didn't meet the thresholds. _ not going on strike. they didn't meet the thresholds. they - not going on strike. they didn't meet the thresholds. they all | meet the thresholds. they all balloted, they all wanted to take action, it was only this union that met the very high threshold for taking action. no teacher leaves their classroom and their pupils easily or wanting to do it. they are doing this because they are desperate because they have seen their pay decline virtually more than any other profession over the last ten years. to give you one example, i will be quick but we are seeing a workforce crisis in our schools so yes, this strike is awful because it's awful for parents and pupils because they will miss a day's schooling, but what is happening every day in schools is awful because we don't have enough teachers. ., ., awful because we don't have enough teachers. . . ., ., , ., awful because we don't have enough teachers. . . ., ., teachers. katharine, what do you say to that? you — teachers. katharine, what do you say to that? you believe _ teachers. katharine, what do you say to that? you believe money - teachers. katharine, what do you say to that? you believe money isn't - teachers. katharine, what do you say to that? you believe money isn't the| to that? you believe money isn't the answer, what do you say to mary? t answer, what do you say to mary? i am a head teacher, i will never say no to— am a head teacher, i will never say no to more — am a head teacher, i will never say no to more money but i do believe it is complex — no to more money but i do believe it is complex. for instance our year 11 and year— is complex. for instance our year 11 and year 13— is complex. for instance our year 11 and year 13 children, last year up to a third —

and year 13 children, last year up to a third of— and year 13 children, last year up to a third of gcse exam content was cut with _ to a third of gcse exam content was cut with the — to a third of gcse exam content was cut with the understanding we had 'ust cut with the understanding we had just been— cut with the understanding we had just been through covid and those children— just been through covid and those children were affected. the children this year— children were affected. the children this year were reflected the same way, _ this year were reflected the same way, but — this year were reflected the same way, but they were affected when they were — way, but they were affected when they were in year ten and no changes have been_ they were in year ten and no changes have been made to their exams, and now we _ have been made to their exams, and now we are _ have been made to their exams, and now we are striking. i worry about the families, i think about the families— the families, i think about the families who have moved from insecure — families who have moved from insecure job to insecure job part time, _ insecure job to insecure job part time, trying to find something, because — time, trying to find something, because during covid they were hit hard and _ because during covid they were hit hard and don't work for the public sector~ _ hard and don't work for the public sector. having said that, i think teachers — sector. having said that, i think teachers have because, i understand. it is teachers have because, i understand. it is really— teachers have because, i understand. it is really hard for teachers. while — it is really hard for teachers. while mary has good points about pay and so _ while mary has good points about pay and so on. _ while mary has good points about pay and so on. i_ while mary has good points about pay and so on, i don't disagree with and so on, idon't disagree with that— and so on, i don't disagree with that but— and so on, i don't disagree with that but i— and so on, i don't disagree with that but i think the things we need to be _ that but i think the things we need to be fighting for in education are better— to be fighting for in education are better behaviour and less bureaucracy. behaviour and bureaucracy. behaviour and bureaucracy are the main reasons why we have _ bureaucracy are the main reasons why we have a _ bureaucracy are the main reasons why we have a crisis in terms of the workforce _ we have a crisis in terms of the workforce-— we have a crisis in terms of the workforce. , , , ., ,, ., workforce. mary is shaking her head. i've written workforce. mary is shaking her head. we written a — workforce. mary is shaking her head. i've written a book _ workforce. mary is shaking her head. i've written a book about _ workforce. mary is shaking her head.

i've written a book about the - i've written a book about the bureaucracy, it's about intense workload and inappropriate accountability measures, so workload and bureaucracy are absolutely key, but when you see teachers have lost 23% of their average pay over the last 12 years and that when you see that all public bodies saying that teaching is becoming unattractive, when you see that every day children are being taught by teachers who are not qualified in their subject area or being taught by learning support assistants... but or being taught by learning support assistants. . ._ or being taught by learning support assistants... �* , , assistants... but mary, you used the fiaure of assistants... but mary, you used the fi . ure of a assistants... but mary, you used the figure of a 23% _ assistants... but mary, you used the figure of a 23% pay _ assistants... but mary, you used the figure of a 23% pay cut _ assistants... but mary, you used the figure of a 23% pay cut in _ assistants... but mary, you used the figure of a 23% pay cut in real - figure of a 23% pay cut in real terms, other people use a far lower figure than that. i'm not disputing but there is an important point that not everybody would accept your numbers on that. katharine, what would your solution be? you don't

agree with going out on strike. certainly not now, so soon after covid _ certainly not now, so soon after covid. many families are not in a position— covid. many families are not in a position to — covid. many families are not in a position to strike and i'm not sure it's the _ position to strike and i'm not sure it's the most sensible time to be doing _ it's the most sensible time to be doing that. but i think there a larger— doing that. but i think there a larger conversation to be had about teachers _ larger conversation to be had about teachers and how much we are paid. how much _ teachers and how much we are paid. how much do we respect the teaching profession? _ how much do we respect the teaching profession? how much do we value teachers? — profession? how much do we value teachers? because we should value them _ teachers? because we should value them enough to pay them enough so there is— them enough to pay them enough so there is a _ them enough to pay them enough so there is a point to be made but i'm not sure _ there is a point to be made but i'm not sure how— there is a point to be made but i'm not sure now is the time to make it. michel— not sure now is the time to make it. michel barnier, you heard michael gove say the uk does honour its agreement. i'm told in my ear you had a wry smile when he said that. what do you make of the uk's delivery on brexit?— what do you make of the uk's delivery on brexit? michael spoke about the current _ delivery on brexit? michael spoke about the current government, i delivery on brexit? michael spoke i about the current government, there is a new government in the uk, he spoke about the current commission, the commission is the same. it did not change. so to be frank, what we

are trying to do passionately with huge respect, without ideology during these five years is to find solutions in ireland to the problem created by brexit. the problem in northern ireland is only the brexit so we are trying to find a solution to square the circle. the first solution, we have been flexible. borisjohnson, the government at solution, we have been flexible. boris johnson, the government at the borisjohnson, the government at the time boris johnson, the government at the time negotiated very carefully line by line, comma by comma and we found an agreement. so there is room to look at the details, there is room

to find rational, technical solutions. i think to be frank that it is time to conclude. because for the first time since three years, there is a common willingness to find solutions and take responsibility.- find solutions and take resonsibili . , find solutions and take resonsibili , ., responsibility. some people on the uk side might— responsibility. some people on the uk side might say _ responsibility. some people on the uk side might say to you actually l uk side might say to you actually that you weren't very flexible and that you weren't very flexible and that only now actually brussels is willing to do things and be flexible on some points that you said were impossible when you were in charge of the negotiations, and there are several areas whether it's on sharing data by the discussions around medical products, there is much more flexibility than during the time when you were presiding over things. the the time when you were presiding over things-— the time when you were presiding over things. the flexibility and the work to find _ over things. the flexibility and the work to find a _ over things. the flexibility and the work to find a solution _ over things. the flexibility and the work to find a solution for-

over things. the flexibility and the work to find a solution for data, i was a request for the commission, so there are improvements. the time for implementing the treaty, the protocols the ratification. but it has taken years... i but it has taken years... i am no loner but it has taken years... i am no longer in — but it has taken years... i am no longer in the _ but it has taken years... i am no longer in the negotiations - but it has taken years... i am no longer in the negotiations so - longer in the negotiations so i don't want to speak in the name of the commission, but i think it is time, and there is a way, to find a solution now. there is a common unwillingness. i think for the first time since three years, there is this willingness. and i neverforget all the long the negotiation, that we are in this negotiation, brexit is very complex, what is at stake, what is most important is the peace and stability for the irish people. but isn't it frustrating if you are watching in belfast this morning or if you are somebody who cared passionately about brexit, to think that now after years of uncertainty, very real consequences for the people of northern ireland, doubts

over the good friday agreement, wouldn't people be entitled to feel frustrated that you are sitting here now saying, yes, there can be flexibility, yes, there can be solutions, when actually there could have been solutions along time ago? yes, but we have found solutions, we have found a global framework. lea have found a global framework. leo varadkar said mistakes were made and actually the original deal was too strict, is he wrong? he actually the original deal was too strict, is he wrong?— strict, is he wrong? he was the taoiseach _ strict, is he wrong? he was the taoiseach at _ strict, is he wrong? he was the taoiseach at that _ strict, is he wrong? he was the taoiseach at that time - strict, is he wrong? he was the taoiseach at that time so - strict, is he wrong? he was the taoiseach at that time so we i strict, is he wrong? he was the i taoiseach at that time so we work together. i can't tell you all the details are right, we have to work together, but it is time to conclude, that is the point i want to make. d0 conclude, that is the point i want to make. ~ conclude, that is the point i want to make. ,, ., , conclude, that is the point i want to make. «a, , , , to make. do you think any mistakes were made. — to make. do you think any mistakes were made, did _ to make. do you think any mistakes were made, did you _ to make. do you think any mistakes were made, did you make - to make. do you think any mistakes were made, did you make any? - were made, did you make any? from who? by you? _ were made, did you make any? from who? by you? leo — were made, did you make any? from who? by you? leo varadkar- were made, did you make any? from who? by you? leo varadkar says - who? by you? leo varadkar says mistakes were _ who? by you? leo varadkar says mistakes were made, _ who? by you? leo varadkar says mistakes were made, do - who? by you? leo varadkar says mistakes were made, do you - who? by you? leo varadkar says i mistakes were made, do you think who? by you? leo varadkar says - mistakes were made, do you think you made any now? t mistakes were made, do you think you made any now?— made any now? i think we leave a certain number— made any now? i think we leave a certain number of _ made any now? i think we leave a certain number of points - made any now? i think we leave a certain number of points open - made any now? i think we leave a certain number of points open for| certain number of points open for discussion. i don't think it would be mistakes. we can speak about mistakes, i think i work all along in this process with a huge

flexibility, i work with the greatest respect, if you look at my book... ., , , ., , greatest respect, if you look at my book... ., , ,._ i book... you tell the inside story. i think it is — book... you tell the inside story. i think it is interesting _ book... you tell the inside story. i think it is interesting to _ book... you tell the inside story. i think it is interesting to read, - book... you tell the inside story. i think it is interesting to read, to l think it is interesting to read, to understand the complexity of the brexit. huge complexity, the complicity of the negotiation. but if you read this book, which i wrote every day during the negotiation, and night, you can see, have the proof, that i always work with respect for the british people, for the irish people also, for the government, and for all the actors. and this respect was the key point for me. �* and this respect was the key point for me. . ,., , and this respect was the key point for me. . , ~ and this respect was the key point forme. . , ,, ., for me. and it sounds like you are sa in: , for me. and it sounds like you are saying. let's _ for me. and it sounds like you are saying. let'sjust _ for me. and it sounds like you are saying, let'sjust be _ for me. and it sounds like you are saying, let'sjust be really - for me. and it sounds like you are saying, let'sjust be really clear, l saying, let's just be really clear, you think there will be a deal soon to tie up the northern ireland protocol, after all of these many years of angst? t protocol, after all of these many years of angst?— protocol, after all of these many years of angst? i hope so. i think there is a — years of angst? i hope so. i think there is a way. — years of angst? i hope so. i think there is a way, because - years of angst? i hope so. i think there is a way, because for - years of angst? i hope so. i think there is a way, because for the l there is a way, because for the first time in three years, i see a

common willingness to create responsible of the on both sides. michel barnier, thank you very much for now, katharine and mary, thank you both very much for now but stay with us because we will back with —— we will be back with you at the end of the programme, and we will also have reaction from the labour party to the sacking of nadhim zahawi, in the next ten minutes. and as always, we want to know what you think, too. now for something completely different. it has been awhile since we talked about that dreaded phrase, the special relationship, the friendship the uk always hopes really matters to our cousins across the atlantic, but sometimes they have other things going on. but i am delighted to say that the new us ambassador to the uk, jane hartley, is with us this morning for her first television interview since she took the job. we can see you on the

screen being sworn in by her late majesty over zoom, because it was a very different time then.— very different time then. welcome. thank you- — very different time then. welcome. thank you- you _ very different time then. welcome. thank you. you have _ very different time then. welcome. thank you. you have been - very different time then. welcome. - thank you. you have been ambassador for some months _ thank you. you have been ambassador for some months now, _ thank you. you have been ambassador for some months now, what _ thank you. you have been ambassador for some months now, what you - thank you. you have been ambassador for some months now, what you make | for some months now, what you make of the uk so far? t for some months now, what you make of the uk so far?— of the uk so far? i have been ambassador _ of the uk so far? i have been ambassador for _ of the uk so far? i have been ambassador for eight - of the uk so far? i have been | ambassador for eight months, of the uk so far? i have been - ambassador for eight months, and i ambassadorfor eight months, and i arrived about a day before the platinum jubilee started, and our confirmation process, as many people know, can be very complicated. but because of the respect for the queen, in the end, it did not feel rushed to me, but it was rush, and i was voted unanimously, and that was a special, special time. and you talked about presenting credentials, i think i was the last ambassador to present credentials to the queen. and i will never forget that. that is a very meaningful... _ and i will never forget that. that is a very meaningful... and what are your impressions of the uk so far? erm, well, it has been an

interesting time, i have been here eight months! you interesting time, i have been here eight months!— eight months! you can say that! i was trying _ eight months! you can say that! i was trying to _ was trying to think of the adjective. i have been here eight months, i have had three prime ministers, and i have witnessed two monarchs. but my impression is that the special relationship, as you mentioned, is very much real. when i was on the other side of the atlantic preparing to come over here, and through all mice in it meetings, confirmation meetings, everybody would talk about the special relationship. i think until you actually get here and work with the government, you really don't realise how special it is. as you know i have been an ambassador before, i've worked at the white house, i've never seen the trust, and the trust, the history, and really frankly even the process, it is seamless. we share intelligence, our militaries work together, i was just up at lakenheath air force base

last week, and itjust brought home to me as we talked about ukraine what we're doing together. so, i don't think there is another country like that in terms of our relationship.— relationship. and if our relationship still - relationship still is so special, and there i did it, i used the phrase, why, then, is the promise to trade deal between our two countries 1 million miles away? it was promised, it was promised by brexiteers during the campaign, but it was promised by the former president, where has it gone? listen, i think we have to look at trade in the broadest sense. we have done different things in terms of trade. obviously we now see scotch whisky flowing freely back and forth between our two countries, which i think many people are happy about. i am about to go up to wales to a couple of the farms that are now exporting lamb, and i think the airbus situation has also been resolved. i think we have to take it one step at a time. catherine tie

has been meeting... she is our us trade representative. we have had many meetings including a terrific meeting a while ago in boston on small and medium—sized businesses. but on the big trade deal, though, it sounds like you are saying to people this morning, president biden is not going to give the uk an all singing, all dancing trade deal, that used to be on the table? t can't go there because i don't know if that's the case. i do know the strength of... if that's the case. i do know the strength of. . ._ if that's the case. i do know the strenath of... ., ., ~ .. strength of... you are the american ambassador. _ strength of. .. you are the american ambassador, if— strength of... you are the american ambassador, if it _ strength of... you are the american ambassador, if it was _ strength of... you are the american ambassador, if it was going - strength of... you are the american ambassador, if it was going to - ambassador, if it was going to happen, you would know. t will ambassador, if it was going to happen, you would know. i will tell ou what i happen, you would know. i will tell you what i said _ happen, you would know. i will tell you what i said in _ happen, you would know. i will tell you what i said in my _ happen, you would know. i will tell you what i said in my confirmation | you what i said in my confirmation hearing, because i was asked this. i said i heartand hearing, because i was asked this. i said i heart and a free trader, that is what i have done in my life, i was a ceo, i understand business, i understand the importance of it, but i am not negotiating the deal. i will be an advocate for it, if we get a deal that... it really has to help workers on both sides of the atlantic. ., ., , atlantic. one of the other things i know that the _ atlantic. one of the other things i know that the white _ atlantic. one of the other things i know that the white house -

atlantic. one of the other things i know that the white house is - atlantic. one of the other things i i know that the white house is taking a keen interest in is what is happening around northern ireland and the protocol, as we've just been discussing with michel barnier. how important is in sorting out the northern ireland protocol to president biden? northern ireland protocolto president biden?— northern ireland protocolto president biden? , ., ., president biden? listen, we are not art of the president biden? listen, we are not part of the negotiation _ president biden? listen, we are not part of the negotiation and - president biden? listen, we are not part of the negotiation and we - president biden? listen, we are not part of the negotiation and we want| part of the negotiation and we want to make that clear. this is between the uk and the eu. having said that, we have encouraged for months and months and months now both parties to get together to sit down at a table and to try to get it out. because what is important to us is what all over the progress, the peace, the prosperity, from belfast good friday, continues. and i was up in belfast a couple of months ago, maybe six weeks, something, and i was amazed, it is an incredible community that seems poised to take off. there is a huge amount of american investment in there already, some major companies, and in my discussions with them and

others, people are saying, you know, great education system, entrepreneurial spirit, many young people, but i don't think you're going to find a ceo, at least an american one, investing when there is political instability of foss but there is concern in the unionist community in northern ireland that this different relationship that northern ireland has with the eu to the rest of the uk. closer to dublin, than to the rest of the uk. do you think if the protocol progresses, that makes the path to a united ireland more likely? you know, i don't have enough information on that. but what i would say is, if they have a protocol that works for them, in some ways, they are in the most positive of all worlds because they get to trade east and west and north and south. and from an american standpoint i would love to work with them on bringing more investment to

northern ireland. ok. them on bringing more investment to northern ireland.— northern ireland. ok, you have been here at an extraordinary _ northern ireland. ok, you have been here at an extraordinary time, - northern ireland. ok, you have been here at an extraordinary time, as - here at an extraordinary time, as you said, you were sworn in while the queen was still alive, and you've met the new king now, there has also been huge attention and discussion of harry and meghan's moved to the us, is there a lot of sympathy for harry and in america, you think? sympathy for harry and in america, ou think? ~ ., ., you think? er... i never like to go into family _ you think? er... i never like to go into family dynamics, _ you think? er... i never like to go into family dynamics, because i'm from a very big family myself, and, you know, we never talk publicly about our own, whatever our intention, by the way i'm very close to my family and... just for the record! g , just for the record! my son is here, i am just for the record! my son is here, i am seeing — just for the record! my son is here, i am seeing him — just for the record! my son is here, i am seeing him for _ just for the record! my son is here, i am seeing him for dinner- just for the record! my son is here, i am seeing him for dinner with - just for the record! my son is here, i am seeing him for dinner with my| i am seeing him for dinner with my daughter—in—law tonight, my daughter is in new york, i miss her terribly, and my husband is here half the time. �* , , �* , ., and my husband is here half the time. but this isn't 'ust a private family matter. _ time. but this isn't 'ust a private family matter, this— time. but this isn'tjust a private family matter, this has - time. but this isn'tjust a private family matter, this has been - time. but this isn'tjust a private family matter, this has been a i time. but this isn'tjust a private i family matter, this has been a huge story and it does certainly seem on the other side of the atlantic that there has been a very genuine swell

of support for harry and meghan, and do you think that the reputation of the royal family has been damaged or tarnished somehow by all of this? listen, i will only give you my personal opinion and remember i have not been living in the united states, i've been living here. but as you said, i've met the king, and i have, and i was in scotland at dumfries house are couple of weeks ago. and i think one of the things that would be important for the public, the uk public and frankly the american public, to know, is, how much good the prince then has donein how much good the prince then has done in terms of the prince's trust and other things. that message is not out there. i'm particularly interested in it because one of the things i want to work on as an embassy is what we do with young people and how we make sure young people and how we make sure young people have the right skills for the next generation, whatever is coming, in terms of technology. and i think that working with employers, which

prince's trust has been doing on apprenticeships and training, to make sure the next generation has skills and also has hope. and i want to commend them for what they did, and i think more people should know about it. ., ., ., ., , and i think more people should know aboutit. ., ., ., . , about it. you have done a very good 'ob there about it. you have done a very good job there of — about it. you have done a very good job there of expending _ about it. you have done a very good job there of expending to _ about it. you have done a very good job there of expending to our- job there of expending to our audience of some of the work that they do. as you are here, and people in the uk watching the us very closely and i mustjust briefly ask you about the very disturbing pictures that we have all seen overnight over what happened in memphis with tyre nichols. for brits watching this, what is it about american police forces that this kind of terrible thing seems to keep happening? you kind of terrible thing seems to keep ha enin: ? ., ~ ., ., happening? you know, i am heartbroken, _ happening? you know, i am heartbroken, to _ happening? you know, i am heartbroken, to be - happening? you know, i am heartbroken, to be honest l happening? you know, i am i heartbroken, to be honest with happening? you know, i am - heartbroken, to be honest with you, as a mother, and watching that video was pretty horrific. when it first came out i had not seen it and my daughter got a hold of me and her question was one i would want to ask

many elected officials, she said, why does this keep happening? and i think it is a question we should all be asking. i think there is legislation on the hill right now, the wagner ministration has proposed, it is stuck there, hopefully we will do something to try to pass it. —— the biden administration has proposed. but we have to be asking, are police being trained in the right way, are we recruiting the right type of people? there are some improvements after george floyd, in terms of cameras on police, no chokeholds, things like that, but we have to go much further. wejust that, but we have to go much further. we just can't keep with this happening, it is a horrorfor every mother that is out there watching that video, every person. ambassador hartley, thank you so

much for coming in, it is great to have you in the studio, do come back another time. have you in the studio, do come back anothertime. t have you in the studio, do come back another time-— another time. iwill, absolutely, thank you- _ another time. iwill, absolutely, thank you. now, _ another time. iwill, absolutely, thank you. now, time _ another time. iwill, absolutely, thank you. now, time for - another time. iwill, absolutely, thank you. now, time for a - another time. i will, absolutely, - thank you. now, time for a different kind of special— thank you. now, time for a different kind of special relationship, - thank you. now, time for a different kind of special relationship, you - kind of special relationship, you have seen them on the tv... you've seen them on tv, two of the brightest stars in our living rooms in recent years, the doctor's assistantjenna coleman and aidan turner, poldark himself, are creating a different kind of magic right now playing a couple on stage whose relationship is put under the cosh when a fictional draconian government tries to control notjust what we do, but how we communicate, limiting the number of words we can all use a day. that would be a problem in this studio. their characters can only utter 140 words a day — ok, do you think we can describe this play in 140 words? so, this play is about two people, oliver and bernadette, who are living in a world where a law, a piece of legislation, has been established where every person in that country has a word limit of 140 words per day. so, if you only have 140 to use

a day, what are your favourite ones? you're actors, artists, you work with language, what are your favourite words? i should have known you were going to ask this. did you not prepare this answer? i always liked the word candelabra, and i don't know why. and it's not useful. it's not that useful anymore! slainte is a good word, that's an irish word. they're both very good words. on the one hand, it seems impossible to imagine that you'd ever have a situation where a government would limit the number of words that we're all able to use a day as individuals. except go back a few years, it would have been impossible to imagine that we would have lived under a situation where governments told us all to stay at home during covid. right, exactly, yeah. and this play was written in 2015. it's so fascinating that sam wrote... i mean, this is not in any way a play about the pandemic but obviously during the rehearsal process, you can't help but align and draw comparisons. apparently it's been really good in norway. for what? for... ok, so, since quietude came in... i hate that word! ..workplace bullying has gone down,

drunk texting is basically over, people are eating more root vegetables for some reason. that sounds like some rock solid data. oliver, you're being... i'm being rightfully angry. they're using this faux benevolent nonsense to lock us all up in some linguistic gulag. where are you getting this from? the loos. and you know my thoughts. there's a brilliant sequence that we have where the law is first passed and it's like, instant, great, ok, there's a bit of a manic energy of survival, let's talk in morse code, let's create... you know, and i think so back to that beginning of the pandemic period, where suddenly, you know, there was a kind of a hysteria, like, memes and... fear. yeah, fear. toilet roll. literally, that at the very beginning of the pandemic, and you can feel it in the play at this point. there's a very big conversation at the moment about whether free speech is under attack, have people become too careful about some of the things that they say?

yeah, i think it's really interesting. at a moment in our play there's an amendment that's passed where some people in some professions get a certain license professions get a certain licence to say as many words as they like, if it's work—related, in their workspace. so, some of the first people to get it are politicians and lawmakers and there's these i think we call them word sanctuaries that are set up, where they can go in and just chat. the houses of parliament is one of the first places, westminster, where they can go in and just freely talk. and then they've decided to set up communities in there, my character talks about there being gyms in there and 28 restaurants, and people are just hanging out and allowed to chat. so, we can see this divide between people who are just getting the standard 140 words — my character, who's just a musician — and people like politicians and lawmakers. what do you think it says in the play that politicians are able to set their own rules for themselves which are different to the rules that they set for the rest of us? and have, like, live—in places where they go and chat

and have parties and stuff? i don't know, i've never heard... they wouldn't do something like that, would they? i don't know, you tell me! laughter what does it say? i mean, it'sjust interesting, isn't it? it is an interesting take, that when you're lawmakers and you do these kind of things, i mean, who are the first people to get it? i mean, usually themselves. jenna, for lots of people, they first saw you blaze to stardom as part of doctor who. i have to ask you, what was the best and worst thing about being in doctor who? oh, good! best was every day was very, very different, you know, in terms of, you were being hung upside—down and wires and stunts, running down corridors, every two weeks was a different episode, amazing actors in and out all of the time. and also the nature of the storytelling, it was literally like being a kid in a storybook every single day. erm... how long were you on the show for? three series, i did three series. with matt smith and peter, who came in. so, i worked with two different...

two doctors. yeah i used to have a teacher exactly like you. - you still do, pay attention! any downsides at all? downsides? i think for me ijust love change and it was a really long time to play one character. i was yearning, as much as i love cardiff, i was yearning to leave when i did. and what about poldark? so, that was a huge smash around the world. you said when you were returning to the stage you hoped that the success of poldark would bring a whole new audience to come and see you in the theatre. yeah, and they did. all the fans just came from poldark! every single one, it's been a long—running play! did that work? it's difficult often for people to have success on stage and on tv, but has it worked, did it help? when you do something that's a success, you get more of those scripts and offers coming in for that particular type of thing, and so, yeah, you can get pigeonholed pretty easily, i think, still in this business. i think every actor kind of goes through it, you just need to know what you want to do

and change it up. so, do you turn down lots of rugged hero roles? not anymore, i think i'm too old. i think that day is over. at 39? yeah, my day is gone. your days as a rugged hero are gone. i'm not sure if many of our viewers would agree with that. jenna and aidan, thank you very much for talking to us. it's been really fun. thank you very much. thanks. now, back to the main news. nadhim zahawi, the conservative party chairman, was sacked just as we came on air. the prime minister ethics adviser concluded he had made a serial breach of the ministerial code. in whitehall speak, that is getting things very wrong. bridget phillipson, labour's shadow education secretary, is here. what do you make of this sacking? rishi sunak said he would check what has happened, he has made mistakes and gone, this should have happened, right? tt and gone, this should have happened, riuht? , ., ., ., ,, right? it should have happened weeks auo. it

right? it should have happened weeks ago- it speaks — right? it should have happened weeks ago- it speaks of _ right? it should have happened weeks ago. it speaks of rishi _ right? it should have happened weeks ago. it speaks of rishi sunak's - ago. it speaks of rishi sunak's weakness it has taken so long to happen. this isn't about one individual, it is a the heart of government, government mired in sleaze. we have had nadhim zahawi, suella braverman who herself broke ministerial code and then appointed as home secretary, dominic raab, gavin williamson. it speaks to a government focused on the conservative party, not in the interests of the public, and this will continue to happen. it isn't going away and i think there are still serious questions the prime minister needs to ask about this. nadhim zahawi has spent weeks seeking dodge questions and. wasn't it riuht seeking dodge questions and. wasn't it ri . ht and seeking dodge questions and. wasn't it right and proper— seeking dodge questions and. wasn't it right and proper in _ seeking dodge questions and. wasn't it right and proper in the _ seeking dodge questions and. wasn't it right and proper in the sense - seeking dodge questions and. wasn't it right and proper in the sense of- it right and proper in the sense of having the facts, checking out what really happened, wasn't it right and proper that rishi sunak asked his ethics adviser to investigate? that investigation took its course, it happened relatively quickly, the investigation came back this morning and now he is out. would you suggest

ministers should just be chucked out at the first sign of things going wrong? at the first sign of things going wron: ? , , , at the first sign of things going wronu? ,, i, .,, at the first sign of things going wronu? ,, i, ., wrong? this is very serious and nadhim zahawi _ wrong? this is very serious and nadhim zahawi has _ wrong? this is very serious and nadhim zahawi has spent - wrong? this is very serious and nadhim zahawi has spent a - wrong? this is very serious and | nadhim zahawi has spent a long wrong? this is very serious and - nadhim zahawi has spent a long time dodging this. i think it speaks to rishi sunak's character, his judgment and weakness. he's not prepared to do what's right for the country because he is focused on what is best for the conservative party. he what is best for the conservative pa . . ~' what is best for the conservative party-_ he - what is best for the conservative party-_ he had i what is best for the conservative | party-_ he had no party. he sacked him. he had no choice, party. he sacked him. he had no choice. he _ party. he sacked him. he had no choice, he should _ party. he sacked him. he had no choice, he should have _ party. he sacked him. he had no choice, he should have sacked i party. he sacked him. he had no i choice, he should have sacked him weeks ago. what happens yet again, weeks ago. what happens yet again, we have focus and discussion about all of these terrible things at the heart of the conservative party. the british people know we face big challenges. it will take a labour government to get the country back on a better path. if we have a country where it's all about the interests of the conservative party, we will not see the change people of this country need. the we will not see the change people of this country need.— this country need. the liberal democrats — this country need. the liberal democrats have _ this country need. the liberal democrats have said - this country need. the liberal democrats have said this - this country need. the liberal - democrats have said this morning nadhim zahawi should stand down as an mp, do you agree with that? t think that's for him. i don't see

that his career has much road to run really. my focus is notjust on nadhim zahawi has one individual but right across government what we see. suella braverman is broke the ministerial code on an issue of national security and rishi sunak made her home secretary. that is his weakness and failure ofjudgment. that is affairs, it's little wonder we don't get proper negotiation.— get proper negotiation. should teachers go — get proper negotiation. should teachers go on _ get proper negotiation. should teachers go on strike? - get proper negotiation. should teachers go on strike? is - get proper negotiation. should teachers go on strike? is the i get proper negotiation. should - teachers go on strike? is the shadow education secretary, what is your

view? t education secretary, what is your view? ., �* ., ., , ., ., view? i don't want them to be out on strike and if— view? i don't want them to be out on strike and if i — view? i don't want them to be out on strike and if i were _ view? i don't want them to be out on strike and if i were education - strike and if i were education secretary i would be round the table trying to sort it out. when you take —— speak to teachers they tell you it's notjust about pay, its the fact they feel undervalued and underappreciated for the work they do. look at the work they did during the pandemic. experienced teachers over the last decade had a 13% pay cut, under labour teachers got real terms pay increases. we won't be able to fix all of this overnight, but we do deliver a fairer deal for teachers. ~ , ., �* , ., but we do deliver a fairer deal for teachers. ~ , ., �* ., , ., teachers. why won't you answer that ruestion teachers. why won't you answer that question though? _ teachers. why won't you answer that question though? do _ teachers. why won't you answer that question though? do you _ teachers. why won't you answer that question though? do you think - teachers. why won't you answer that question though? do you think theyl question though? do you think they should go on strike or not? because i want to should go on strike or not? because i want to be — should go on strike or not? because i want to be the _ should go on strike or not? because i want to be the next _ should go on strike or not? because i want to be the next education - i want to be the next education secretary and i would be party to that conversation sat around a table trying to get a settlement. hat that conversation sat around a table trying to get a settlement.— trying to get a settlement. not so lona auo trying to get a settlement. not so long ago during — trying to get a settlement. not so long ago during the _ trying to get a settlement. not so long ago during the pandemic, i trying to get a settlement. not so i long ago during the pandemic, your party leader keir starmer said very clearly he didn't think teachers should take industrial action. so

why does it make sense for labour to take a position on one time and on another occasion you are saying i can't take a position because i want to be the next education secretary? i want what all parents want which is my kids in school, but the only way to sort it out is to get round the table and have a conversation. ministers have left this until the 11th hour, they haven't been serious. t 11th hour, they haven't been serious. ., �* , ., , serious. i don't understand why in 2021 keir starmer— serious. i don't understand why in 2021 keir starmer was _ serious. i don't understand why in 2021 keir starmer was happy - serious. i don't understand why in 2021 keir starmer was happy on i serious. i don't understand why in i 2021 keir starmer was happy on one occasion to give a clear view on whether teachers should take industrial action, and now this morning you are not willing to give our viewers a clear view of whether they should go on strike. t our viewers a clear view of whether they should go on strike.— they should go on strike. i never want strikes _ they should go on strike. i never want strikes to _ they should go on strike. i never want strikes to happen. - they should go on strike. i never| want strikes to happen. teachers don't want to be on strike, doctors don't want to be on strike, doctors don't want to be on strike, doctors don't want to be on strike, nurses don't want to be on strike, nurses don't want to be on strike. when you have industrial action that is because you have a failure to get to a position everyone can live with, and when you have had five education secretary is in a year it's little wonder you don't get to a position of agreement. i think it's about

addressing yes, pay, but the wider issues in the system too. teachers are fed up and have got to the end of the road. i understand that, when you speak to teachers that comes across loud and clear. i'm not talking about people who are otherwise necessarily that interested in politics. your average classroom teacher comes to work to do a brilliantjob educating children and don't want industrial action. itate children and don't want industrial action. ~ ., ., , action. we have two teachers here this morning. _ action. we have two teachers here this morning, one _ action. we have two teachers here this morning, one of— action. we have two teachers here this morning, one of them the - action. we have two teachers here i this morning, one of them the leader of the neu, not affiliated to the labour party, but you have had to and fro about what you would like to do about ofsted. do you think they represent the best interests of teachers? t represent the best interests of teachers? ~ ., ., , ., teachers? i think all unions need to do what's right _ teachers? i think all unions need to do what's right by _ teachers? i think all unions need to do what's right by their _ teachers? i think all unions need to do what's right by their members i teachers? i think all unions need to i do what's right by their members and i would apply that to the neu too. i will work constructively with trade unions to get a better deal for our children but i will never compromise on standards and i want to make sure every child in our country gets a brilliant education. that would be my priority, putting children first, delivering what's best for them. and

delivering what's best for them. and i are determined to give ofsted more powers, whether unions like it or not? , , ., powers, whether unions like it or not? , ., ., powers, whether unions like it or not? , .,. , , not? ofsted needs a total shake-up from top to — not? ofsted needs a total shake-up from top to bottom. _ not? ofsted needs a total shake-up from top to bottom. we _ not? ofsted needs a total shake-up from top to bottom. we are - not? ofsted needs a total shake-up i from top to bottom. we are squeezed for time because _ from top to bottom. we are squeezed for time because of _ from top to bottom. we are squeezed for time because of the _ from top to bottom. we are squeezed for time because of the breaking - for time because of the breaking story but thank you for being in the studio. tt’s story but thank you for being in the studio. �*, ,., ., ., ., ,, story but thank you for being in the studio. �*, ., ., .«r , studio. it's important to make sure all the facts _ studio. it's important to make sure all the facts are _ studio. it's important to make sure all the facts are investigated - all the facts are investigated fully, and that's why lord magnus has concluded and why the prime minister has acted as he did. as a general rule, i think it is important when allegations are raised that they are investigated promptly. raised that they are investigated rom tl . ., ., raised that they are investigated --romtl . ., ., ., promptly. now time for our last coule of promptly. now time for our last couple of minutes _ promptly. now time for our last couple of minutes with - promptly. now time for our last couple of minutes with my - promptly. now time for our last i couple of minutes with my panel. mary bousted, the neu leader, and katharine birbalsingh, the strictest head teacher in the country, and

michel barnier. what does this say to you about what's happening in this country? tt’s to you about what's happening in this country?— this country? it's about holding --eole to this country? it's about holding people to account _ this country? it's about holding people to account and - this country? it's about holding people to account and eyes - this country? it's about holding people to account and eyes the j people to account and eyes the strictest head teacher believing just that. you do an investigation and come to a conclusion, and sadly it is what it is.— it is what it is. mary, do you think there's any _ it is what it is. mary, do you think there's any way — it is what it is. mary, do you think there's any way the _ it is what it is. mary, do you think there's any way the strikes - it is what it is. mary, do you think there's any way the strikes can i it is what it is. mary, do you thinkj there's any way the strikes can be called off? �* ., , there's any way the strikes can be called off? �* . , ., , , called off? i'm ready, as is kevin courtney to _ called off? i'm ready, as is kevin courtney to negotiate _ called off? i'm ready, as is kevin courtney to negotiate any i called off? i'm ready, as is kevin courtney to negotiate any time, | courtney to negotiate any time, anywhere — courtney to negotiate any time, anywhere. we have monday and tuesday — anywhere. we have monday and tuesday. but i don't see that the government at the moment is serious about— government at the moment is serious about negotiating, and we would not have got _ about negotiating, and we would not have got to — about negotiating, and we would not have got to this point if they had started _ have got to this point if they had started to — have got to this point if they had started to negotiate with us last october— started to negotiate with us last october when we first decided to ballot _ october when we first decided to ballot our— october when we first decided to ballot our members. since we announced the ballot results, we had over 34,000 teachers join the announced the ballot results, we had over 34,000 teachersjoin the union. ithink— over 34,000 teachersjoin the union. i think that _ over 34,000 teachersjoin the union. i think that shows the strength of feeling _ i think that shows the strength of feeling. bridget phillipson is right, — feeling. bridget phillipson is right, teachers are at the end of their— right, teachers are at the end of their tether. they feel undervalued, underpaid, — their tether. they feel undervalued, underpaid, completely overworked, but more _

underpaid, completely overworked, but more importantly for parents, parents _ but more importantly for parents, parents throughout the land at the moment— parents throughout the land at the moment will know that their children are either— this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe. i'm ben brown. our top stories: the british prime minister, rishi sunak, has sacked the chairman of his conservative party, nadhim zahawi, following a prolonged controversy over his tax affairs. israel's security cabinet agrees new measures in response to the deadly attack on a synagogue in eastjerusalem. i will submit to the security council additional tips that might have stepped the fight against terrorism,. a bus has plunged into a ravine in pakistan, killing at least 41 passengers.

the family of a black man killed by police in the us city