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tv   BBC Wales Investigates  BBC News  January 29, 2023 3:30pm-4:00pm GMT

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this is bbc news. the headlines... the british prime minister, rishi sunak, has sacked the chairman of his conservative party, nadhim zahawi. mr sunak said in a letter to mr zahawi that it was clear that there had been a serious breach of the ministerial code. a bus has crashed into a ravine in pakistan, killing at least a0 of the 48 people on board. in a separate incident, at least ten children died in a boat accident in tanda dam lake in the north—west of the country. israel's security cabinet has approved new measures in response to the killing of seven israelis in a synagogue in eastjerusalem. they include depriving residency and other rights of an attacker�*s family members. in tennis, novak djokovic wins a record—extending tenth australian open, beating greece's stefanos tsitsipas in straight sets. djokovic also sets
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a record—equalling 22nd grand slam men's title, putting him level with rafael nadal. now a bbc wales investigates programme has raised allegations of misogyny, sexism and racism in in the welsh rugby�*s governing body. before we start, i want to bring you this statement from the team. they say... now it's time for bbc wales investigates: welsh rugby under the spotlight.
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wales�* women on the pitch... ..proud to wear the three feathers. you know, it's a wonderful game and it's our national game. it was a dream job. charlotte wathan was hired in 2018 to help transform the women's game in wales. i believed that i could be a force for good., you know, bring about some positive change. but she quit after four years, telling the wru she was sick of being exposed to bullying, sexism and sexual harassment at work. and that's really sad. um... the women's game had long struggled for crowds and credibility. and, in 2018, things had hit rock bottom. well, they beat wales -
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here at twickenham by 52—0. after 20 years working in sport, charlotte's job was to get more women and girls playing and to develop a strategy for the future. i was working as a consultant, research and insight, particularly for sports organisations. what were people telling you as you're about to... mm. ..take this step and join the wru? mm. "don't." "are you sure?" i'd heard whispers around some of the challenges the young female team within the women's programme had faced. just feeling quite ridiculed, undervalued. misogyny, sexism. it was... everything was always an additional hurdle. when she started herjob, she says she soon began to see it for herself. there was an attitude that it was ok to make derogatory comments to,
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you know, to make sexist/sexual comments around women, or about women, within groups of the organisation. it was always sort of palmed off as banter, but i think again, there's...there�*s a line. that line got crossed for me personally, and i know for others. the wru is always keen to push its commitment to the women's game. we're committed to making it the best professional programme in the world. well, over the last 12 months, we've seen some real progress in the women's game in wales. we've seen the first professional contracts. we've seen the professional staff, the support staff, bolstered. while progress was being made, some in the organisation were still worried about the culture in parts of the wru. it's not a culture that i likes to be challenged.
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marc roberts has just quit the wru after 20 years of helping to develop the men's and women's game in north wales. when i first started - and i thoroughly enjoyed the experience, i think, - unfortunately the last five or six years, the culture has got worse. marc says he warned bosses about what he'd seen and heard from a number of women in the organisation. i'm aware of several instances - where females have left the business or mental health has been affected and certainly it's part of my- decision to leave welsh rugby union. were they able to complain about it? there's been a lack of supportl to some females who have had complaints, and when one person relays that story to another, - there's a reluctance then to go forward and voice opinions. . are you pretty satisfied that this happened because they were women? yes, 100%.
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it was because they were women. charlotte's role was to change the game and attitudes, but says she found some too entrenched. 0vert references. "they're all gay, they're all..." you know, it's that kind of culture. you know, or god forbid, we, you know, we show the women's game because, you know, they're going to detract from us as a brand. it was, you know, those types of things. and who was it coming out with this? was itjuniorfigures, or senior figures within the organisation? seniorfigures. and juniorfigures. senior figures... and it was... it was the lack of the game being taken seriously. i remember charlotte coming into the organisation and, as guilty as it makes me feel, i remember looking at her thinking, "woman, blonde, "and working in women's rugby." that made me feel, "you're going to be the next target". we've spoken to another former
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employee about her time at the wru. she's asked us not to identify her. an actor tells her story. being from a rugby family and a rugby background, the concept of working for the wru had always been a bit of a dream. to the outside, the wru was this bright, shiny organisation. inside of it, it'sjust toxic. she quit in 2018 after six years at the wru and says, while there was investment in the women's game, not everyone bought into the idea. some attitudes were, on the pitch we're not equals. and women's rugby was the game for lesbians. it wasn't something they liked. it's something that was played on a sunday, on a day that didn't interfere with the men's game. sometimes that kind of language was used around the national centre of excellence about the national team. it was just the culture. but that was the view amongst some.
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the national centre of excellence is where wales's top players train and where charlotte says she witnessed worrying attitudes too, including how, in 2019, a male colleague referred to an exercise drill with young women. he referred to one of the drills in one of the sessions as the c—word drill, you know, in front of other senior members of the team. and that... it was ok. we had 17, 18—year—olds there. and they used the c—word in front of them. and referred to the drill as the c—word. charlotte says she reported her concerns to bosses. we understand one of those bosses didn't recall that conversation. the man in question left the wru. she says she was told the complaint couldn't be investigated further.
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marc says he also reported incidents elsewhere. he says that, last march, he witnessed colleagues making jokes about child sexual abuse during a staff team—building event. very early on in that day, l somebody on a bus journey to the activity referenced somebody was, um, from a private school. - and because they went to a private school, - there would be some kind of sexual abuse to him as a child _ by teachers, etc... um... i was quite shocked that sort of terminology was used. - as we got off the bus, _ the most senior manager on that particularjourney then echoed the same statement to - the same individual. that particular day, you know, it was unprofessional- behaviour throughout, - to the point where that day was actually investigated i by an external hr company. marc says he told them what he'd overheard.
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the wru told us, "this is new information which will be "followed up and acted on." women's rugby was everything i wanted to do. i remember those days when i pulled on a red jersey were some of the most wonderful days of my life. tonia antoniazzi was a wales international. she's now a welsh mp. she says it was never easy playing in the women's game, but she'd hoped, 20 years on, things would be different. there are still issues around misogyny and sexism in in rugby. there is a massive problem. this is at different levels. three completely different people came to me with a com... ..with concerns around governance and the way that women are being treated. but from three different perspectives, and those different
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perspectives is what convinced me that i needed to take this further. this is on a level of gymnastics. this is on the level of what's happened in cricket. allegations of abuse in gymnastics and racism at yorkshire cricket led to independent inquiries into those scandals. at the wru, concerns about culture were flagged in an online meeting in 2020, when marc and charlotte say they overheard a colleague make a racist comment. in a zoom meeting, one of the senior managers within the rugby side, we were chatting about cricketjust before the start of meeting and...and he referred to a minority group as the p—word. well, the conversation - was between the manager and the individual who used that
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p—word, and nothing was said. i i actually brought it up and said, you know, that term _ was unacceptable and inappropriate. and my colleague referred . to a newsagent in the village with the same term. at no stage did a senior manager stop and say, i "you cannot use that term. "that is not the appropriate term." but it's not the first time that manager was accused of failing to act. according to charlotte, there was another serious incident the year before. so, i had an experience of someone referring about me in an office environment, in front of...in front of other staff, in front of other young female staff as well, um, that.. ..they wanted to rape me. um... i remember standing in shock. i remember ijust carried on looking at what i was doing, going, "did ijust hear that?" you know, "did ijust hear that?" ijust rememberfeeling, oh, you know, like sick,
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punched in the stomach and, you know, and everyone�*s laughing. and there was a senior member of staff there, and...it was funny, ha—ha. and i remember ijust left the room and i burst into tears and i felt sick, and i thought, "crikey, "is this what it's come to?" and there was a senior manager who witnessed that? any repercussions at all? no repercussions. take me back to the hotel. tie me to the bed and rape me. 0n hearing that, what's your response to those allegations? it'sjust wrong. it's wrong that anybody, any woman or girl, should be subjected to that kind of vile, vile treatment, language, in a workplace.
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and where it is witnessed, and those people do not put a stop to it, they are...they are complicit in it as well. what would you have expected to happen? i'd have expected the conversation to be shut down completely. totally and utterly at that moment in time. charlotte decided not to report her allegations at the time. you know, i didn't go to hr on it. two reasons, i think. 0ne, because... ..i...just total apathy to, one, it being listened to, dealt with or, you know, and... ..and the fear of repercussion, you know, to me and others, i suppose, around, you know, just... life was already tough enough. but she did eventually write
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to the wru, detailing that allegation and others as part of a formal grievance. the wru hired a lawyer to look into her allegations, and charlotte gave them a list of potential witnesses to corroborate what she was saying. but we've discovered that a number of them were not contacted. and the man she accused of saying he wanted to rape her in his hotel room wasn't interviewed as part of the grievance inquiry. he still works for the welsh rugby union. the manager, who charlotte said witnessed the incident, told the inquiry, though he remembered the man accused saying that she could visit him in his hotel room, he couldn't recall the word "rape" being used. disbelief. because it's such a strong word, you know, evokes such a strong reaction, doesn't it, to most people?
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so i think... i think i'm surprised if he can't recall that word being used. we've been told that a witness identified by charlotte to the wru was willing to make a statement, confirming that they'd seen and heard the man make the rape comments, but they were not asked to do so. with the serious nature of what i'm calling out, why wouldn't you do that? why wouldn't you find out for yourselves? ask the people that were there, but they haven't. the wru told us that charlotte's allegations remain unsubstantiated, following a thorough, independent legal investigation. it says it takes any allegations from staff regarding behaviour, attitude and language seriously. and, if any allegations are substantiated, it will act swiftly as such behaviour has no
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place in the wru, or in welsh rugby. charlotte is not the only woman to challenge the wru. the colleague who saw the signs right at the start of charlotte's time at the organisation says that she'd already told hr how bullying and sexism at work had left her feeling suicidal. this wasn't about an incident here and an incident there. it was constant undermining of me or my gender. she says it began when she returned from maternity leave and the manager began targeting her. i would say it was bullying. you just didn't know that day what kind of mood they were going to be in. the thought of leaving the house
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to go to work would bring on almost a panic attack. i was considering taking my own life because i couldn't see the way out. i went as far as to start drafting a manual for my husband on what to do in the event that i died~ — takes you to a very dark, dark place, where you can genuinely look at your husband and think, "you're young enough "to meet someone else. "and my daughter is young enough to get another mother." but ultimately, that's the point that i got to, and that's probably at the point i reached out to hr. she says she was advised to put in a grievance against the manager, and that she could move offices, but that would still be in the same building. so she left without taking it further.
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to hold my hands up and to genuinely challenge what was going on was the most high—risk strategy, to me. but she says she did give the name of that manager to hr. we've discovered that the same person, along with other managers, was also the subject of complaints in charlotte's case. by the early spring of 2021, charlotte says that her mental health was deteriorating. she told the wru she felt broken, the culture was toxic, and she was too ill to return to work. at my lowest point... ..i thought, enough�*s enough. i can't... i don't want to be here any more. they beat me down. they won. and you just, at that point think, there's no hope. there's no hope, you know? nobody wants to take this seriously.
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in april 2021, she began a formal grievance against the wru. the wru announced it was commissioning an independent review of women's rugby. it was meant to be a long, hard look at what was going wrong. current and former players would be asked for their views. executives and coaching staff too. the aim, to move the women's game forward, with a promise from the wru there would be no avoiding difficult decisions off the back of the findings. tonia antoniazzi took part in the review and wanted its findings published, but the wru refused. what are the welsh rugby union hiding? i believe it is too embarrassing and too damaging. no recommendations from the women's review have been published. they may have been acted
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on, but they're not in the public domain. where is that transparency? we've seen extracts of the review�*s findings. out of 20 areas examined, strategy, players, and also the culture, not a single one was said to be performing well. players at the time describe the environment and culture as draining, demoralising, frustrating. some senior staff said it was underfunded. mental health for some was suffering. past players described it as toxic and wanted an end to inequality, quick fixes and empty promises from the wru, which was warned that its finances and reputation were at significant risk if things didn't improve. while the authors found passion, hard work and commitment from players and staff, just three out of eight executives took part in the review.
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i think, if there were positive outcomes of that review, - you would plaster it all over - everywhere, and show everybody the positive outcomes. if it's a negative one, um... ..my opinion, a good culture, a good environment, - would still put it out there. marc wasn't the first to quit, warning the culture needed to change. aviva boss amanda blanc recently voted the sunday times businessperson of the year, stepped down in late 2021 as chair of the wru's professional rugby board. what she said in her resignation speech hasn't been revealed until now. we've discovered she described her shock at the board asking if she had enough business experience for the role, and warned about the treatment of some women in the organisation. she said that she was beyond disappointed with the review
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into the women's game, and that it verged on being insulting towards women. she referenced a meeting held to discuss an allegation of bullying of a female member of staff, but that the board spent most of their time talking about how to defend the man accused. and she said she was staggered to hear about an elected wru member say that women should know their place in the kitchen and stick to the ironing, and that some board members felt it unfair to take too many free tickets away from him as a sanction. she also warned that, when it came to equality, diversity and inclusion, they were sitting on a ticking time bomb. that doesn't surprise me. i find it abhorrent that you cannot put your hands up and say what you found that was so awful, and tell people what you are doing to put it right. the wru insist they have implemented
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change as a result of the review. it didn't comment on amanda blanc's concerns, but it did strongly refute any suggestion that the women's game has been held back by the issues described, and remains committed to it now and into the future. charlotte spent a year fighting the wru over her allegations and began employment tribunal proceedings. a hearing was scheduled for this summer, where those accused would be publicly named. this was probably one of the worst experiences of my life. and it was dark, it was grim, and it could have cost me my life. just because i was trying to develop the women's game. the woman who said she'd faced bullying and sexism also tried taking action against the wru, which had denied any wrongdoing.
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i tried to take them to an employment tribunal. they bullied me by saying they would put a cost order against me because they would argue that the claim was vexatious and that, as a result of that, it could amount to fees. extraordinary, extraordinary fees i would have to pay. 0n the balance of what was the most important at that time — my family and our livelihood, versus trying to fix an organisation i'd left, i chose my family and my livelihood. at the time, she says the wru argued she'd left it too late to bring a claim, and that she had no grounds for one. it told us her case was investigated and proper procedures were followed. in the end, i did what i had to do to get out of that situation. unless you are a woman and, excuse the expression, - but with balls and deep pockets, -
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how on earth do you take on somebody like the wru and stand up to them without there being financial - detriment, reputational detriment? there has to be an independent body set up to look at complaints. - i would like to see... ..the welsh government take the bull by the horns, - and develop a system that is robust enough to hold sporting _ governing bodies to account. um... will that happen? i don't know. the mp wants a senedd inquiry into the wru, on a par with yorkshire cricket. she's also written to the wru's most famous patron about what women have told her. the prince of wales needs to know that this is a real issue. _ the wellbeing and mental health
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of people that have worked - at the wru is a concern, - and it should be a concern for him. the wru said how sad it was to hear how individuals in this programme felt, and said it will continue to work with staff to ensure they feel valued and listened to. two months after we interviewed charlotte wathan, her case against the wru was settled in what both sides described as an "amicable agreement". that means there won't be an open hearing. the wru says the settlement also prevents them from responding to charlotte's complaints in this programme. for those who've walked away from the welsh rugby union, there's still hope that the women's game can keep moving forward as they try to do the same. it doesn't matter how much
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counselling i go through to try and heal what's there, but ultimately, the wru will stay as this open wound for me. i've just got to learn to live with it. i'm hoping that i give other women courage. actually standing up for yourself and saying, you know, "this isn't 0k." i want to leave a better legacy. and that's...that's my goal. ultimately, i hope that it brings around transformational change because it could be such a wonderful organisation. fairly quiet on the weather front for most of us this sunday, but in scotland it has been very windy, outbreaks of rain too. and through the course of this evening, that rain should reach the north—west of england too. northern ireland will have some rain for a time, and then eventually,
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when the weather front reaches the south, i think it'll fizzle away. by the end of the night, it's generally clear across much of england and wales, but in scotland i think the showers will continue and it will remain blustery after what has already been a very windy day in scotland. temperatures between around 3 and 7 degrees celsius first thing on monday. here's monday's weather forecast — blustery to start in the north—east of scotland. the winds will ease and then eventually, actually, a pretty decent day with lighter winds will develop with temperatures up to around 10 degrees in many areas. the north—west, however, will tend to cloud over later in the day in advance of the next weather front. let's have a look at tuesday and wednesday — typically, temperatures into double figures across england and wales, not far off that in scotland, but very windy in scotland tuesday night.
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this is bbc news. welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. i'm martine croxall. our top stories. the british prime minister, rishi sunak, has sacked the chairman of his conservative party, nadhim zahawi, after an independent adviser investigated his tax affairs. more than 50 people, including children, have died in two separate transport accidents in pakistan. israel's security cabinet agrees new measures in response to the deadly attack on a synagogue in eastjerusalem. and tom verlaine, the influential guitarist and frontman of the band television, has died aged 73.

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