inland from the about 15 minutes inland from the coast, but i do no that some people on the coast got may be a better view of that part, and i do know that some of the local meteorologists were talking about what might go in the ocean that the military would have to retrieve it. yes, they will have to go in a fish it out. so you saw the jet line—up, take a shot and you saw the white balloon kind of shimmy down to the sky but then you couldn't see it any further hit the seal anything like that? l, l l, �* further hit the seal anything like that? l, �* , that? no, couldn't see it hit the sea but deftly — that? no, couldn't see it hit the sea but deftly saw _ that? no, couldn't see it hit the sea but deftly saw it _ that? no, couldn't see it hit the sea but deftly saw it falling - that? no, couldn't see it hit the | sea but deftly saw it falling apart and floating down. mas sea but deftly saw it falling apart and floating down.— and floating down. was this all uuite and floating down. was this all quite visible _ and floating down. was this all quite visible with _ and floating down. was this all quite visible with the _ and floating down. was this all quite visible with the naked . and floating down. was this all. quite visible with the naked eye? clearly you were filming it on your phone but wasn't big enoughjust clearly you were filming it on your phone but wasn't big enough just to see with your eyes? it definitely was. i was shocked at the fact that i could see all this

happening. the fact that i could see all this hauaenin. i. ., the fact that i could see all this hanneninu. i. ., . ., happening. absolutely amazing. what a remarkable — happening. absolutely amazing. what a remarkable few _ happening. absolutely amazing. what a remarkable few minutes _ happening. absolutely amazing. what a remarkable few minutes for- happening. absolutely amazing. what a remarkable few minutes for you. - a remarkable few minutes for you. it's not every day i'm assuming you get a chinese spy balloon shot down 15 minutes from your house.- get a chinese spy balloon shot down 15 minutes from your house. yeah, it was a wild thing _ 15 minutes from your house. yeah, it was a wild thing to _ 15 minutes from your house. yeah, it was a wild thing to see. _ 15 minutes from your house. yeah, it was a wild thing to see. absolutely. l was a wild thing to see. absolutely. thank ou was a wild thing to see. absolutely. thank you so _ was a wild thing to see. absolutely. thank you so much _ was a wild thing to see. absolutely. thank you so much for— was a wild thing to see. absolutely. thank you so much for coming - was a wild thing to see. absolutely. thank you so much for coming on i was a wild thing to see. absolutely. i thank you so much for coming on and talking us through what you saw and thanks again for sharing that footage. it is giving us a much clearer idea of what happened. we have the statements from the pentagon and the news lines coming to us from reuters, but to actually see it and to see what you're describing match up with the official statements there as well really helps us fill in the picture. i will let you go about your day again, ashlyn, thank you very much. thank you, have a good day. and again, ashlyn, thank you very much. thank you, have a good day. and you. we have heard —

thank you, have a good day. and you. we have heard from _ thank you, have a good day. and you. we have heard from president - thank you, have a good day. and you. we have heard from president biden l we have heard from president biden giving his response to what happened and we did learn some new details. just a quick interview, but worth listening to but we did —— worth listening to but we did —— worth listening to but we did —— worth listening to because we did learn something. listening to because we did learn something-— listening to because we did learn somethinu. ~ ., ., . . something. without doing damage an one on something. without doing damage anyone on the _ something. without doing damage anyone on the ground, _ something. without doing damage anyone on the ground, the - something. without doing damage anyone on the ground, the best i something. without doing damage i anyone on the ground, the best time to do— anyone on the ground, the best time to do that _ anyone on the ground, the best time to do that would be over water. it successfully took it down and i want to complement who did it, and we will have _ to complement who did it, and we will have more to report on later. that was quite revealing that wednesday was the day that he actually decided we had —— they had to take that down. advice from the pentagon was to wait and we were hearing that over the last couple of days. the risk was not worth shooting it down. the security risk

that it posed wasn't great enough and the calculation to kill anyone on the ground. apart from the unknowns, this is because it flew so high in the sky, if it shot down, the landing area was much harder to calculate. instead, they waited until about just over an hour ago now. about an hour and ten minutes ago is where they took the decision to shoot it down. they have the order, they have the 0k, they were waiting for it to move off the coast of south carolina away from people, and when it was in territorial waters, they didn't waste much time at all. using a single missile, took the balloon down, and i know in the statement from them that there was no collateral damage. they waited to do

that over the sea rather than on land. they were confident in doing that, it was a military operation, and they closed the airspace, so a couple of hours before, we got some indication this would be taking place, because they got in touch with the faa. it said shut down, no aircraft. once the operation has been done, they reopened air space pretty quickly. not too much

disruption. all the focus now is on the recovery and what, if anything, the recovery and what, if anything, the us authorities will be able to learn from it. as it was plunging towards the sea, they needed to recover as much of the hardware, software... chinese surveillance balloon to try and assess what exactly was doing. they established they don't believe this was a weather balloon. they believe this was a deliberate spy operation from the chinese. but the big question mark is... could easily be gathered from chinese satellites. as jack mentioned earlier, it's someone with a really good use of google maps to establish this. for straley for many, that is what leads to so many

questions —— frustratingly for many. that's why it's been interesting over the last half hour or so. we've been hearing from the us defence officials, underlining this was a serious surveillance threat. it was part of chinese surveillance balloons working across the globe right now. this wasn't a single balloon, and we knew that already because of the balloon being reported over latin america. just to say these are the pictures from my guest we were talking to in the last few minutes or so. we haven't completely verified them independently. they have come in from a guest, out in her back yard in the area, looked up, worked up what was going on and filmed them like this. but we haven't ourselves

independently verified this footage just yet. let's go live now to washington. we can speak with elisabeth braw, a security and defense expert at the american enterprise institute. thanks so much for coming on the programme. thanks so much for coming on the programme-— thanks so much for coming on the nuroramme. . ~ i. ., . programme. thank you for having me. what your reaction _ programme. thank you for having me. what your reaction to what _ what your reaction to what we've seen? ~ ,, . ., , ,, seen? well, the us authorities knew they needed — seen? well, the us authorities knew they needed to _ seen? well, the us authorities knew they needed to do _ seen? well, the us authorities knew they needed to do something - seen? well, the us authorities knew. they needed to do something because this was a chinese balloon floating around in the us airspace. even though it was about to leave, it was humiliating and embarrassing. i think this is the point of this to begin with, there are lots of other ways in which china can gather intelligence. but to essentially tell the us government and the global public that we can send a balloon into the us and struggle to figure out what to do, that was part of this exercise and that's why the us government needed to shoot it

down — to show that is able to tackle such problems. down - to show that is able to tackle such problems. interesting. so because — tackle such problems. interesting. so because they _ tackle such problems. interesting. so because they can't _ tackle such problems. interesting. so because they can't unjustly - tackle such problems. interesting. so because they can't unjustly so i tackle such problems. interesting. i so because they can't unjustly so -- so because they can't unjustly so —— they can and just to show they can? damage on the us?— they can and just to show they can? damage on the us? that's exactly the case. you damage on the us? that's exactly the case- you don't— damage on the us? that's exactly the case. you don't need _ damage on the us? that's exactly the case. you don't need a _ damage on the us? that's exactly the case. you don't need a balloon - case. you don't need a balloon to gather intelligence. to gather intelligence, i think us will remember gary powers, who was shot down doing exactly that. if you send in a balloon, that balloon is going to be visible to somebody, and the public have said what is going on here? why is our extremely powerful military not able to defend our airspace? ridiculous little intruder, and that is exactly what

china managed to do. we were chuckling a little bit when people realise it was some sort of intelligence gathering device. it's notjust intelligence gathering device. it's not just some intelligence gathering device. it's notjust some joke.— intelligence gathering device. it's not just some joke. notjust some 'oke. given that, what seems to be — notjust some joke. given that, what seems to be is _ notjust some joke. given that, what seems to be is the _ notjust some joke. given that, what seems to be is the level _ notjust some joke. given that, what seems to be is the level of _ notjust some joke. given that, what seems to be is the level of damage i seems to be is the level of damage the chinese have done to the relationship with the us, especially as this was on the eve of the secretary of state supposedly visiting there. it seems like an extraordinary measure to damage that relationship, and people will be asking why do that.— relationship, and people will be asking why do that. exactly. the us and chinese — asking why do that. exactly. the us and chinese governments _ asking why do that. exactly. the us and chinese governments are - and chinese governments are seriously want to sabotage this important step that was under way in trying to fix us—china relations. or

the chinese government is so disorganised that the people in charge of this balloon thought it was a good idea to send it off to america to provoke the americans, even as anthony blinked and was about to travel to china. i think people will be very bitter trying to analyse —— antony blinken. hanan people will be very bitter trying to analyse -- antony blinken. how much can be gained — analyse -- antony blinken. how much can be gained from _ analyse -- antony blinken. how much can be gained from the _ analyse -- antony blinken. how much can be gained from the actual- can be gained from the actual recovery operation here? we'rejust getting a little update on the recovery operation which isn't particularly useful. that recovery is under way. how long it will take is under way. how long it will take is still to be determined, says a senior us defence official. absolutely useless in terms of information, but it does give us a sense that the operation is ongoing.

we want to get a sense of how useful you think it could be. is there likely to be anything on board this balloon that could teach us very much? i balloon that could teach us very much? ., balloon that could teach us very much? ~' , ., , , , much? i think it will probably be maru inal much? i think it will probably be marginal views. _ much? i think it will probably be marginal views. and _ much? i think it will probably be marginalviews. and i _ much? i think it will probably be marginal views. and i would - much? i think it will probably be marginalviews. and i would be| marginal views. and i would be extremely surprised. we should remember that these days, there is an enormous amount of information available and open source material. but i think the main lesson the united states needs to learn from this, you need to be prepared for all kinds of security threats, not just the ones your armed forces have been exercising for. you need to be prepared against whatever created activity the other side can come up with, whether that be a aviation

privacy. whether it be chinese spy balloons, all of that is created measures that various countries have come up with, and we don't have a clear response, because we are used to countries defending themselves against it traditional aggression. just stay there for 20 seconds because we have some new pictures coming into us. these are the latest one from cbs news. let'sjust take coming into us. these are the latest one from cbs news. let's just take a quick look.

ijust i just wanted to ijust wanted to pause so i just wanted to pause so we ijust wanted to pause so we could take a look at what the actual show us. pretty similar to the other pictures we've seen. a single missile used hit the balloon, which then came down — no collateral damage, no harm — and now the recovery operation under way. pleasingly reinforcing the pictures we have earlier from an eyewitness. doesn't give us much more detail. elisabeth, let's come back to you. if we fast forward, say we get some update in the next couple of hours on what is recovered, we are not

obviously going to get too much detail on how useful it will be, but i presume we'll get some up say that x y z is recovered. this brings an end to the immediate story we've been covering. but how do you think that leaves relations between china and the us? if you focus on the us side, strategically, pr wise, what kind of moves or signals you want to send after this? for kind of moves or signals you want to send after this?— send after this? for the us, what is clear is that — send after this? for the us, what is clear is that the _ send after this? for the us, what is clear is that the government - send after this? for the us, what is clear is that the government needs | clear is that the government needs to realise that there are national security... threats. americans in

the us government are used to military threats happening elsewhere. if anything happens here, it's cyber threats and so forth. it's now been proven that america's territory or airspace are not immune either. i think when it comes to us—china relations, what's important, the crucial development to watch for is how the chinese government responds, considering that it said the balloon has nothing to do with them. the chinese authorities said it's just a weather balloon. if the americans do discover, it will be interesting to see how the chinese respond. the fact that a balloon has been shot down and it is a chinese balloon, i think the chinese government will need to say something.— think the chinese government will need to say something. that's really

fascinating- — need to say something. that's really fascinating. what _ need to say something. that's really fascinating. what do _ need to say something. that's really fascinating. what do you _ need to say something. that's really fascinating. what do you make - fascinating. what do you make overall of the chinese response? you listed there the shifting position. what have you made overall on the tone and the content and what they've been saying? i tone and the content and what they've been saying?— tone and the content and what they've been saying? i think the chinese government _ they've been saying? i think the chinese government is - they've been saying? i think the chinese government is very - they've been saying? i think the | chinese government is very used they've been saying? i think the . chinese government is very used to obfuscating, and we all faintly remember the early days of covid, when the authorities said there was no virus. even as citizens in wuhan were documenting the disease that was spreading. the government doesn't exactly have a lot of trust with the world's citizens, and even less with governments. when they said it's nothing to do with them, i'm convinced that was taken with a grain of salt with every class

capital. when they said it was a weather satellite. they seem to realise that first statement was not going to fly and they needed to acknowledge their involvement. but they are now in a very tricky position where they thought they could get away with this provocation and america would embarrass himself. america has responded with some risk, and now we are waiting for china's next move.— risk, and now we are waiting for china's next move. elisabeth, so interesting _ china's next move. elisabeth, so interesting to — china's next move. elisabeth, so interesting to get _ china's next move. elisabeth, so interesting to get that _ china's next move. elisabeth, so i interesting to get that context. can you stay there for us? i want to get a bit of the political reaction in a moment. it's been a big political issue in the us. we're going to bring you some of that in just a

moment. just a quick recap. the us has shot down the expected spy balloon. president biden decided to shoot it down back on wednesday, but the pentagon advised to wait until it's over water. much less risk to people on the ground. they also thanks their partnership with canada. this started with a coming through canada. where we are right now, some 90 minutes on, we are waiting for that recovery operation, so it's absolutely crucial for the us intelligence to find as many bits of debris they shot down as possible. hardware, software, gather

it as quickly as possible. we presume that is happening as we speak. we are waiting to get more details in that recovery operation. a us official was asked, and they said it's indeterminate length. no use in providing us when we will firmed out —— find out what

let's go back to jack from... as we were talking, we got lines in from reuters about... can you run us through what we know? figs

reuters about... can you run us through what we know?- reuters about... can you run us through what we know? as we were talkinu through what we know? as we were talking about _ through what we know? as we were talking about this, _ through what we know? as we were talking about this, this _ through what we know? as we were talking about this, this is _ through what we know? as we were talking about this, this is probably i talking about this, this is probably going to be a massive debris field. recovery could be as much as 20 square miles, so the question is going to be, what is the us going to be able to recover? certainly, something...— be able to recover? certainly, somethinu... . , , , ., something... that begs the question from my point _ something. .. that begs the question from my point of— something... that begs the question from my point of view, _ something... that begs the question from my point of view, and - something... that begs the question from my point of view, and forgive i from my point of view, and forgive me if this is a dumb question. if you use a fighterjet and a missile, you use a fighterjet and a missile, you get the splintering day three —— debris, it can be really, really spread out. i wonder what other options there were. i presume there

would've been other ways to track this balloon down. to try and keep it intact, and is more usefulfrom an intelligence point of view. i

think it was going to be somewhat unavoidable. hitting a terminal velocity... it seems like they pulled the trigger and this was out of the way of any people and... you are saying this _ of the way of any people and... you are saying this is standard. they carried out this operation, and we were told details like that. can you mark a card with us? this were told details like that. can you mark a card with us?— mark a card with us? this is going to be a fascinating _ mark a card with us? this is going to be a fascinating decision - mark a card with us? this is going to be a fascinating decision from i to be a fascinating decision from the biden administration. they have to decide whether they... whether they want to do this behind closed doors are out in the light. it seems like china has moved very aggressively. often times, they're not litigating before they do it, so the united states take more of that

hardline... perhaps a call set up between xijinping and hardline... perhaps a call set up between xi jinping and joe biden. understanding that the chinese have denied this as being a surveillance aircraft. some limitation, but i imagine issues will be trying to resolve all options here. getting to the bottom of this with the chinese. could you help us pull it back the curtain here? how does diplomacy work here? you have that top—tier option, which is president biden picks up the phone, speaks directly to president xi or vice versa. for other senior calls or senior

contacts, lower levels of being in touch and trying to figure out what happened. the united states has always been happened. the united states has always bee— happened. the united states has alwa s bee ., ~ ., ., always been working... some of that uuoin always been working. .. some of that going in. takes— always been working... some of that going in, takes on directly, - going in, takes on directly, although you have to imagine at some point, given this, it will have to take place at the top level. you can imagine this is being worked very heavily in washington. the us is just going to have to figure out, do you use more diplomatic tact or do

you... with the chinese? or do you go back to trying to establish these military hotlines. that wasn't playing out in real time, so may be the biden administration decides because of the sensitivities of this, they want to go back to the basics. most certainly seen in the coming hours. basics. most certainly seen in the coming hours-— basics. most certainly seen in the coming hours. jack, standby for us. i 'ust coming hours. jack, standby for us. liust want — coming hours. jack, standby for us. i just want have _ coming hours. jack, standby for us. ijust want have a _ coming hours. jack, standby for us. ijust want have a quick— coming hours. jack, standby for us. ijust want have a quick recap. - those pictures that we were playing of the blue sky, basically it looks like a couple of white dots slowly moving around. we know a us fighter

jet shot a single missile at the chinese surveillance balloon. it was successful, the balloon came down and there was no collateral damage, no harm done, but the rescue operation now under way. this is what you're effectively seeing. these white lines and white dots. this is the footage of that operation, us fighterjet single missile balloon coming down to earth. we can bring in elisabeth braw again. elisabeth, i want you to ask... do you rememberany braw again. elisabeth, i want you to ask... do you remember any incident vaguely in recent memory? is there anything that we can learn from in this instance? i

anything that we can learn from in this instance?— anything that we can learn from in this instance? i remember vividly, even though _ this instance? i remember vividly, even though i— this instance? i remember vividly, even though i wasn't _ this instance? i remember vividly, even though i wasn't very - this instance? i remember vividly, even though i wasn't very old, - this instance? i remember vividly, even though i wasn't very old, i i even though i wasn't very old, i remember a west german teenager who was so committed so he thought it would be a good idea to take an aeroplane and fly all the way... on the red square, and he was hugely embarrassed because the soviet union was —— it was hugely embarrassing. so, someone who thought he was... and this spy balloon is clearly a different nature altogether. i think there are important lessons to learn notjust there are important lessons to learn not just for there are important lessons to learn notjust for america, but other countries as well. if they were to

find a spy balloon, what would they do? these are discussions that need to be had. unless we had a situation where a spy balloon appears. crosstalk i'm sorry for talking over you, and just because you set article 5 there. if you could just tell us, because it's really important point about the consequences here. just talk us through what that means in the consequences.— the consequences. article 5 refers to the north _ the consequences. article 5 refers to the north atlantic, _ the consequences. article 5 refers to the north atlantic, which - the consequences. article 5 refers to the north atlantic, which is - the consequences. article 5 refers to the north atlantic, which is thej to the north atlantic, which is the article in which allies promised to take action if one of them is intact. in the past, it has been clear what it intact means. —— an

attack. you need to react somehow. so, i think nato member states and other allies of the western world need to figure out if something like this happens to a country that is less strong than the united states, are we going to team up and shoot that balloon down?— are we going to team up and shoot that balloon down? interesting. what kind of calculation, _ that balloon down? interesting. what kind of calculation, if— that balloon down? interesting. what kind of calculation, if something - kind of calculation, if something similar happens again in the us specifically, you would presume the learning here would be they would have to take action very quickly or they would be in another situation where they would have to wait for days to take down. in where they would have to wait for days to take down.— days to take down. in fact, they will need to _ days to take down. in fact, they will need to take _ days to take down. in fact, they will need to take action - days to take down. in fact, they will need to take action before i will need to take action before anything like this ever happens again. they will need to communicate to china and any other country they

may wish to send spy balloons.