have a great day whatever you do, goodbye. it wasn't all a bad dream for the tories. happened. liz truss, do you still think your _ happened. liz truss, do you still think your economic _ happened. liz truss, do you still think your economic plan - happened. liz truss, do you still think your economic plan was . happened. liz truss, do you still - think your economic plan was right? she's back. liz truss has picked up her pen and given her version of events, blaming her party, even the public, and the left—wing economic establishment, who he claims didn't give her a realistic chance. there no sorry, surprised that her mandate from members wasn't enough. how many people voted for your plan? what from members wasn't enough. how many people voted for your plan?— people voted for your plan? what do ou mean people voted for your plan? what do you mean by — people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? _ people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? well, _ people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? well, he - people voted for your plan? what do you mean by that? well, he has - people voted for your plan? what do | you mean by that? well, he has been talkin: to you mean by that? well, he has been talking to old — you mean by that? well, he has been talking to old friends _ you mean by that? well, he has been talking to old friends at _ you mean by that? well, he has been talking to old friends at home - you mean by that? well, he has been talking to old friends at home and - talking to old friends at home and away. talking to old friends at home and awa . , ~ ., ., , talking to old friends at home and awa . , " ., ., , ., ., , away. give the ukrainians the tools

to finish the _ away. give the ukrainians the tools to finish the job. _ away. give the ukrainians the tools to finish the job. give _ away. give the ukrainians the tools to finish the job. give them - away. give the ukrainians the tools to finish the job. give them the - to finish the job. give them the planes — to finish the 'ob. give them the lanes. �* , , ., , planes. but the musings of his predecessors _ planes. but the musings of his predecessors might _ planes. but the musings of his predecessors might be - planes. but the musings of his predecessors might be the - planes. but the musings of his i predecessors might be the least rishi sunak�*s worries, with bullying claims against his deputy... horse claims against his deputy... how would he claims against his deputy. .. how would he feel— claims against his deputy. .. how would he feel if— claims against his deputy... how would he feel if one _ claims against his deputy... how would he feel if one of _ claims against his deputy... hm" would he feel if one of his claims against his deputy... how would he feel if one of his friends or relatives was being forced to work for a bully, while he can't even out what he believes in? we will keep delivering for britain. massive — will keep delivering for britain. massive strikes this week, and more next. with no signs of budging on any side. we next. with no signs of budging on an side. ~ ., ., any side. we need the government to come to the — any side. we need the government to come to the table _ any side. we need the government to come to the table and _ any side. we need the government to come to the table and solve - come to the table and solve this dispute. irate come to the table and solve this disute. ~ ., ., , , ., dispute. we have one big question this morning- _ dispute. we have one big question this morning- can _ dispute. we have one big question this morning- can the _ dispute. we have one big question this morning- can the tories - dispute. we have one big question this morning- can the toriesjust l this morning— can the tories just get on with governing, governing, and get along? grant shapps served for all of six days is liz truss's home secretary, and now business secretary under rishi sunak and he joins us. sharon graham is the head of the unite union, who will leave her members to the picket line tomorrow in the biggest strike in the health service to date. she joins us too. and in the last of our

run of leader interviews, the man in charge of the liberal democrats, sir ed davey, is here. and unless you have been on another planet, you will have noticed that liverpool is getting ready to host eurovision on behalf of ukraine. i have been talking to the ukrainian host, timur miroshnychenko, about broadcasting from bonkers. == miroshnychenko, about broadcasting from bonkers-— from bonkers. -- from bonkers. we had to no from bonkers. -- from bonkers. we had to go underground _ from bonkers. -- from bonkers. we had to go underground to _ from bonkers. -- from bonkers. we had to go underground to do - from bonkers. -- from bonkers. we had to go underground to do our. from bonkers. -- from bonkers. we| had to go underground to do ourjob. all of our channels were in the bunkers. �* ., ., ,., ,., . ~ bunkers. and we have a panel packed with insiaht bunkers. and we have a panel packed with insight this _ bunkers. and we have a panel packed with insight this morning. _ bunkers. and we have a panel packed with insight this morning. you - bunkers. and we have a panel packed with insight this morning. you will. with insight this morning. you will remember dame kate bingham from when she was head of the vaccine task force. sirjake berry, former conservative party chair, and liz kendall, the labourfrontbencher who kendall, the labour frontbencher who knows kendall, the labourfrontbencher who knows all about social care.

hello and thank you forjoining us on the day of one of the biggest tv events on a sunday for years. not us, happy valley, of course. but it's a determined woman in real life who is making the news this morning. the former prime minister liz truss, who has said in the sunday telegraph, who get the scoop of her version of events, that she admits she might have done a betterjob at communicating, but there is a long list of others she names at fault for the implosion of her government. she points the finger at her predecessor, saying for years, we conservatives have failed and have worried too much about the labour party. and she seems to have a pop atjust party. and she seems to have a pop at just about everyone party. and she seems to have a pop atjust about everyone else, including the wider public. she says "the wider public sphere were unfamiliar with key arguments on tax and the economy", the things she was trying to talk about. on the other front pages, a variety of stories. you can see the sunday telegraph scoop on the front, but the observer

says there is zero chance the tories will keep their promise to build a0 new hospitals. the sunday times talks about rishi sunak�*s threat to pull the uk out of the european convention on human rights. that is to do with the policy of small boats and people coming to our shores. and and people coming to our shores. and a variety of stories on the front pages of the different tabloid newspapers. so there is a lot around, but as far as politics goes, one big story. jake berry, you wear the chair under liz truss's government, trying to hold it all together. but this morning we had her pointing the finger at almost everybody else. does it wash? ishield. everybody else. does it wash? well, it's a very long _ everybody else. does it wash? well, it's a very long article _ everybody else. does it wash? well, it's a very long article and _ everybody else. does it wash? well, it's a very long article and i - everybody else. does it wash? well, it's a very long article and i read - it's a very long article and i read it. istill it's a very long article and i read it. i still agree with liz's diagnosis of the disease that is facing the country. i think she accepted that the prescription we wrote, for which i have to take part of the blame, wasn't delivered in the correct way. but i think her point of needing to lower taxes and

create a growing economy, that is what people want. people understand that they know better how to spend their money than the government does, particularly people in the area we call the red wall, places like the north of england. we have an economy stacked in favour of the south—east, stacked in favour of the status quo and the establishment, and lots of people who voted conservative in 2019 did it because they wanted the sort of disruption to the status quo that would create growth in the north. but to the status quo that would create growth in the north.— to the status quo that would create growth in the north. but many would sa liz growth in the north. but many would say liz truss — growth in the north. but many would say liz truss caused _ growth in the north. but many would say liz truss caused huge _ growth in the north. but many would say liz truss caused huge disruption| say liz truss caused huge disruption for people with their mortgage costs, meltdown and the money markets. might it not have been better if there was even a shred of regret or remorse about how it happened? i hear what you say about the economic diagnosis, but a lot of our viewers might think she put this on herself, shouldn't she be saying sorry? on herself, shouldn't she be saying sor ? , . on herself, shouldn't she be saying sor ? . ., sorry? there is an acceptance of culpability- _ sorry? there is an acceptance of culpability. that _ sorry? there is an acceptance of culpability. that is _ sorry? there is an acceptance of culpability. that is why - sorry? there is an acceptance of culpability. that is why i - sorry? there is an acceptance of culpability. that is why i would l culpability. that is why i would recommend that people read it. it hasn't been reported, that people should read it. but the point is

that the reason people voted against the labour party in the last general election was because there is a feeling in the area i represent that we have a government, whoever is in charge, that doesn't understand the problems. you charge, that doesn't understand the roblems. ., . ~' charge, that doesn't understand the roblems. ., ., ,, ., i. problems. you talk about your party like ou problems. you talk about your party like you are — problems. you talk about your party like you are the _ problems. you talk about your party like you are the opposition. - problems. you talk about your party like you are the opposition. but - problems. you talk about your party like you are the opposition. but i . like you are the opposition. but i think liz understood _ like you are the opposition. but i think liz understood that - like you are the opposition. but i think liz understood that and i agree with her diagnosis. irate think liz understood that and i agree with her diagnosis. we will talk to grant _ agree with her diagnosis. we will talk to grant shapps _ agree with her diagnosis. we will talk to grant shapps about - agree with her diagnosis. we will talk to grant shapps about that l talk to grant shapps about that soon. liz kendall, you are rolling your eyes while jake was talking. what do you make of the way she has gone about this? less what do you make of the way she has gone about this?— gone about this? less than 20 weeks since the conservatives _ gone about this? less than 20 weeks since the conservatives drove - gone about this? less than 20 weeks since the conservatives drove the - since the conservatives drove the economy— since the conservatives drove the economy off a cliff, liz truss is already— economy off a cliff, liz truss is already back with no apology and no humility _ already back with no apology and no humility. and people whose mortgages rocketed _ humility. and people whose mortgages rocketed and whose pensions plummeted will look on with our best shot and _ plummeted will look on with our best shot and at— plummeted will look on with our best shot and at worst, anger. the problem — shot and at worst, anger. the problem for rishi sunak is, he can't control_ problem for rishi sunak is, he can't control any— problem for rishi sunak is, he can't control any of this because he knows, — control any of this because he knows, as— control any of this because he knows, asjake just said, that many people _ knows, asjake just said, that many people in— knows, asjake just said, that many people in the tory party still agree with this — people in the tory party still agree with this. and when you look at a series_ with this. and when you look at a series of— with this. and when you look at a series of decisions that have been

made, _ series of decisions that have been made, whether it is on onshore wind or house—building, sunak is making decisions _ or house—building, sunak is making decisions with an eye to the right of the _ decisions with an eye to the right of the party, putting his party before — of the party, putting his party before what we need in the country. and that _ before what we need in the country. and that is — before what we need in the country. and that is the problem, because he will not _ and that is the problem, because he will not he _ and that is the problem, because he will not be able to deliver the growth — will not be able to deliver the growth and change the country needs. but doesn't _ growth and change the country needs. but doesn't she have a point about the orthodoxy? some people on the left of the labour party think it's impossible to get the centre to move, doesn't she have a point on that? �* , ., ,, , move, doesn't she have a point on that? �* , . ,, , ., that? it's the markets that delivered _ that? it's the markets that delivered the _ that? it's the markets that delivered the verdict - that? it's the markets that delivered the verdict on i that? it's the markets that j delivered the verdict on liz that? it's the markets that - delivered the verdict on liz truss, not any— delivered the verdict on liz truss, not any economic establishment. that is the _ not any economic establishment. that is the irony _ not any economic establishment. that is the irony. the part of your party that clairns— is the irony. the part of your party that claims to know markets absolutely didn't. and that is because _ absolutely didn't. and that is because you cannot make unfunded promises _ because you cannot make unfunded promises. we because you cannot make unfunded romises. ~ ., ., ., promises. we will get more on that once we have _ promises. we will get more on that once we have had _ promises. we will get more on that once we have had from _ promises. we will get more on that once we have had from grant - promises. we will get more on that i once we have had from grant shapps. dame kate bingham, we will talk to you about the vaccine and the health service later. briefly, a lot of the centres on whether the government is doing the right things for the economy. you know about trying to get economic projects off the

ground. do they know what they are doing, as things stand? i’m ground. do they know what they are doing, as things stand?— doing, as things stand? i'm not auoin to doing, as things stand? i'm not going to make _ doing, as things stand? i'm not going to make any _ doing, as things stand? i'm not going to make any strong - doing, as things stand? i'm not i going to make any strong political views, _ going to make any strong political views, but— going to make any strong political views, but as _ going to make any strong political views, but as far— going to make any strong political views, but as far as _ going to make any strong political views, but as far as our _ going to make any strong political views, but as far as our industry l going to make any strong political| views, but as far as our industry is concerned. — views, but as far as our industry is concerned. the _ views, but as far as our industry is concerned, the development - views, but as far as our industry is concerned, the development of. views, but as far as our industry is i concerned, the development of new drugs _ concerned, the development of new drugs and _ concerned, the development of new drugs and vaccines _ concerned, the development of new drugs and vaccines and _ concerned, the development of new drugs and vaccines and so _ concerned, the development of new drugs and vaccines and so on, - concerned, the development of new drugs and vaccines and so on, the l drugs and vaccines and so on, the government's— drugs and vaccines and so on, the government's relationship- drugs and vaccines and so on, the government's relationship with i drugs and vaccines and so on, thel government's relationship with the industry— government's relationship with the industry is — government's relationship with the industry is fragile _ government's relationship with the industry is fragile at _ government's relationship with the industry is fragile at the _ government's relationship with the industry is fragile at the moment. i industry is fragile at the moment. there _ industry is fragile at the moment. there are — industry is fragile at the moment. there are a — industry is fragile at the moment. there are a lot _ industry is fragile at the moment. there are a lot of— industry is fragile at the moment. there are a lot of great _ industry is fragile at the moment. there are a lot of great things - industry is fragile at the moment. there are a lot of great things we | there are a lot of great things we can do. _ there are a lot of great things we can do. but— there are a lot of great things we can do. hutthe— there are a lot of great things we can do, but the relationship- there are a lot of great things we can do, but the relationship withl can do, but the relationship with how they— can do, but the relationship with how they work _ can do, but the relationship with how they work with _ can do, but the relationship with how they work with innovative i how they work with innovative industries _ how they work with innovative industries needs— how they work with innovative industries needs to _ how they work with innovative industries needs to improve. i how they work with innovative - industries needs to improve. more hard work for _ industries needs to improve. more hard work for all _ industries needs to improve. more hard work for all three _ industries needs to improve. more hard work for all three of - industries needs to improve. hun; hard work for all three of you later, but stick with us for now. we want to hear what you think as well, as ever. do e—mail us at kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk. or pick up your phone and use the hashtag on social media, #bbclaurak. the government has a long list of problems — high inflation, health strikes coming along, huge pressure almost wherever rishi sunak looks. i don't even mention the polls. the government has plenty of challenges, but as we have been hearing, a new

one this morning, the re—emergence of the former prime minister. let's talk about that with grant shapps, the business secretary, welcome to you. you served briefly as liz truss's home secretary. you were at the cabinet table. jake berry has just said liz truss was right. do you agree? i just said liz truss was right. do you agree?— just said liz truss was right. do ouauree? “ , , you agree? i think everybody in the conservative _ you agree? i think everybody in the conservative party _ you agree? i think everybody in the conservative party actually - you agree? i think everybody in the conservative party actually agreesl conservative party actually agrees that we don't want our taxes to be higher than they need to be to pay for our public services. we want an economy that is growing. here, jake is right. in her piece, liz truss does accept that you can't go straight to those tax cuts without not only laying out the groundwork, thatis not only laying out the groundwork, that is her point. my point would be about dealing with the other things first. inflation, firstly, keeping debt under control. she first. inflation, firstly, keeping debt under control.— first. inflation, firstly, keeping debt under control. she does say a bit about how _ debt under control. she does say a bit about how the _ debt under control. she does say a bit about how the communication | bit about how the communication should have been better, but she has

a stinging verdict on your whole party, saying the conservatives failed for years to lay the groundwork, to make the right arguments. when you were sitting across the cabinet table from her, where you thinking, hold on, we are getting this wrong, slow down, put your seat belts on, this might be the wrong way to go, or were you happy to go along with it? in the wrong way to go, or were you happy to go along with it?- happy to go along with it? in the last six or _ happy to go along with it? in the last six or seven _ happy to go along with it? in the last six or seven days _ happy to go along with it? in the last six or seven days of - happy to go along with it? in the last six or seven days of the - last six or seven days of the government, we had already seen the impact on the markets. i wasn't part of her original administration. you took a 'ob of her original administration. you took a job as _ of her original administration. you took a job as home secretary. at | took a job as home secretary. git that moment in time, there was a moment of almost national duty to be doing one of the most important roles in terms of the security of the nation. i took it on on that basis. your question is, in my heart, do i think we should have a lower tax economy? the heart, do i think we should have a lower tax economy?— heart, do i think we should have a lower tax economy? the answer is es. no, lower tax economy? the answer is yes- no. my _ lower tax economy? the answer is yes. no, my question _ lower tax economy? the answer is yes. no, my question is, - lower tax economy? the answer is yes. no, my question is, in - lower tax economy? the answer is yes. no, my question is, in your. yes. no, my question is, in your heart, do you think liz truss's approach was the right one? well,

clearl , it approach was the right one? well, clearly, it wasn't. _ approach was the right one? well, clearly, it wasn't. then _ approach was the right one? well, clearly, it wasn't. then was - approach was the right one? well, clearly, it wasn't. then was she i clearly, it wasn't. then was she wron: to clearly, it wasn't. then was she wrong to write _ clearly, it wasn't. then was she wrong to write this _ clearly, it wasn't. then was she wrong to write this morning - clearly, it wasn't. then was she | wrong to write this morning that clearly, it wasn't. then was she - wrong to write this morning that the conservative party has failed for years to make the right arguments? she makes a valid point that somebody has to be agitating for and making the good arguments for the reasons why a lower tax economy, in the long run, can be very successful. by the way, our overall level of tax is still lower than germany and france. ht level of tax is still lower than germany and france.- level of tax is still lower than germany and france. it is also the hi . hest it germany and france. it is also the highest it has _ germany and france. it is also the highest it has ever _ germany and france. it is also the highest it has ever been. - germany and france. it is also the highest it has ever been. i - germany and france. it is also the highest it has ever been. i accept| highest it has ever been. i accept it is hiuh, highest it has ever been. i accept it is high. and — highest it has ever been. i accept it is high, and we _ highest it has ever been. i accept it is high, and we want _ highest it has ever been. i accept it is high, and we want to - highest it has ever been. i accept it is high, and we want to see - highest it has ever been. i accept it is high, and we want to see it | it is high, and we want to see it reduced. you have to set this within an international picture, which is that ukraine was invaded, energy prices went through the roof. we are in a situation where we are repaying a third of people's energy bills, which is unprecedented, right after the whole coronavirus thing, where we spent vast fortunes. fiur the whole coronavirus thing, where we spent vast fortunes. our viewers know that, — we spent vast fortunes. our viewers know that, because _ we spent vast fortunes. our viewers know that, because they _ we spent vast fortunes. our viewers know that, because they have - we spent vast fortunes. our viewers know that, because they have billsl know that, because they have bills arriving on money coming out of their bank accounts every week. but

my question is not about the pressures right now, it is on liz truss's point that your party, year after year, and you served pretty much all the party leader since the tories have been in charge, has failed to make the arguments for the economy working in a different way. with lower tax and lower regulation. is she right or wrong about that? she is right about the need for a long lower tax, but it rubs up against the reality of two or three years of covid and £a00 billion cost of that, followed by the war and enormous costs on energy and inflation. but her point is about whether the conservatives have lost their mooring. have you moved too far to the left? i am trying to answer that by setting in the international context. whilst i agree with the desire to see a low tax economy, you have to put the building blocks in place first. you have got to have inflation at least,

from where it is. you have to grow the economy and then you have to deal with the longer term debt picture, which is nearly 100% of the economy now, before you get on with the other priorities like the nhs waiting lists and the small boats. there are lots of things to do. but it's not just _ there are lots of things to do. but it's notjust liz truss there are lots of things to do. but it's not just liz truss and jake it's notjust liz truss and jake berry in the studio, but even the imf, the international monetary fund, has pointed to the high tax burden in this country as being one of the problems this country faces and one of the problem is that they cite as a drag on growth. and when you hearfrom business groups cite as a drag on growth. and when you hear from business groups or from kate bingham, a distinguished figure in the city, they say you would need a microscope to find a plan from this government to get the economy going. t plan from this government to get the economy going-— economy going. i think your description _ economy going. i think your description might _ economy going. i think your description might lead - economy going. i think your i description might lead viewers to think that the imf didn't think that what the chancellor has done in his autumn statement was the right approach. they actually did think it was the right approach. but

approach. they actually did think it was the right approach.— was the right approach. but they said recently _ was the right approach. but they said recently that _ was the right approach. but they said recently that tighter - was the right approach. but they said recently that tighter fiscal i said recently that tighter fiscal and monetary policies and financial conditions mean that the economy will grow more slowly. we have got jake berry and kate bingham in the studio and liz truss in the sunday telegraph telling you or that you have got the wrong approach towards the economy. are they all wrong? that approach towards the economy. are they all wrong?— approach towards the economy. are they all wrong? that is not what the imf are saying. the _ they all wrong? that is not what the imf are saying. the point liz - imf are saying. the point liz truss is making is that you don't want a high tax economy that stifles growth and innovation as we try to scale up britain and grow the economy. on the other hand, the imf agree that you have got to be able to pay for your plans, which is why they agree with rishi's priority, where he set out that getting debt under control was an important medium—term goal. you

have got to be responsible. that is innately conservative, and that is why it's important that we follow this plan to not only have inflation, but get growth going and deal with the deficit. but inflation, but get growth going and deal with the deficit.— deal with the deficit. but can you also deal with _ deal with the deficit. but can you also deal with the _ deal with the deficit. but can you also deal with the point - deal with the deficit. but can you also deal with the point that - deal with the deficit. but can you also deal with the point that has| also deal with the point that has been made in this studio that people around the country, as jake berry has said, look at the tax they are paying and they don't necessarily believe that what you are doing with the economy is the right recipe? you have made the case about why you want to tackle the that was in the autumn. but right now, do you really think that people think you have got the recipe when they are paying higher levels of tax than they have done for decades? tic higher levels of tax than they have done for decades?— higher levels of tax than they have done for decades? no one wants to -a hither done for decades? no one wants to pay higher levels — done for decades? no one wants to pay higher levels of— done for decades? no one wants to pay higher levels of taxes, - done for decades? no one wants to pay higher levels of taxes, but - done for decades? no one wants to pay higher levels of taxes, but you | pay higher levels of taxes, but you have to set this in an international context that every western government hit by putin because my illegal invasion of pain and experiencing through the roof energy costs has then experienced high levels of inflation. people might mistakenly think this is something

happening in britain alone. in fact, if you look at the international comparisons, it is happening around the world. every government is struggling with this. i don't want to make it sound like it is straightforward, because it is not. we are having to make difficult choices, but are we making them in the national interest and trying to protect the most vulnerable? yes. and you believe that very strongly but some of our viewers might look at what's happening again in the conservative party and think, why can't you just get on with each other? t can't you 'ust get on with each other? , ., ._ .,, can't you 'ust get on with each other? , ., , other? i 'ust would say most people this other? ijust would say most people this morning — other? ijust would say most people this morning are _ other? ijust would say most people this morning are not _ other? ijust would say most people this morning are not getting - other? ijust would say most people this morning are not getting up - other? ijust would say most people this morning are not getting up and | this morning are not getting up and discussing this around their breakfast table.— discussing this around their breakfast table. ., ., ~ ., breakfast table. how do you know? i think people — breakfast table. how do you know? i think people are _ breakfast table. how do you know? i think people are interested - breakfast table. how do you know? i think people are interested in - breakfast table. how do you know? i think people are interested in what l think people are interested in what the former prime minister says and they are very aware of the political turmoil your party has presided over. ., ., , over. one of the great thing is i think has happened _ over. one of the great thing is i think has happened in - over. one of the great thing is i think has happened in the - over. one of the great thing is i think has happened in the last i over. one of the great thing is i - think has happened in the last three months is all of that has calmed down. any premium that was there in interest rates has dropped away by

comparison internationally and we have got on with the job, and actually rishi has been on your programme and set out his agenda to stop the small boats and deal with the nhs backlog. you have heard all of that. the reason i say i don't think most people are talking about one article in the newspaper, but here is my bigger point, politics is about debate. why are we shy of it? why would that be an issue? i welcome the idea that different colleagues have different ideas, thatis colleagues have different ideas, that is the point of politics. ht is that is the point of politics. it is also to get _ that is the point of politics. it is also to get things _ that is the point of politics. it is also to get things done and one of the things your government is trying to get done, they say, is to sort out the strikes. we have the leader of the unite union, sharon graham, we will be speaking to her in a few minutes. the biggest health strikes to date are due this week. why can't you just sort this out? irate to date are due this week. why can't you just sort this out?— you just sort this out? we really want to see _ you just sort this out? we really want to see these _ you just sort this out? we really want to see these things - you just sort this out? we really i want to see these things resolved and i want to pay tribute to all of

the work that went on in the nhs and elsewhere with public service workers during coronavirus. in fact they were the only part of the public health service that got a pay rise last year. shire public health service that got a pay rise last year-— rise last year. are you worried about what — rise last year. are you worried about what the _ rise last year. are you worried about what the impact - rise last year. are you worried about what the impact might i rise last year. are you worried i about what the impact might be on patients? and the health secretary said it could inflict harm. t am said it could inflict harm. i am concerned _ said it could inflict harm. i am concerned because _ said it could inflict harm. i am concerned because what - said it could inflict harm. i am concerned because what we i said it could inflict harm. tan concerned because what we have seen so far is a different approach taken by for example the royal college of nursing who i think have been very responsible. we respect the right of people to withdraw their work and the royal college of nursing has said where that will take place so the nhs has been able to make plans to keep people safe. unfortunately the ambulance unions haven't been prepared to tell us where the strikes will occur to allow the army to provide back—up which has been putting people's lives at risk. thea;r putting people's lives at risk. they disute putting people's lives at risk. they dispute that _ putting people's lives at risk. they dispute that strongly _ putting people's lives at risk. they dispute that strongly and say actually they have had deals they have worked out in different parts

of the country. the have worked out in different parts of the country-— have worked out in different parts of the country. the problem is they onl come of the country. the problem is they only come up _ of the country. the problem is they only come up with _ of the country. the problem is they only come up with those _ of the country. the problem is they only come up with those deals - of the country. the problem is they only come up with those deals the l only come up with those deals the night before, not leaving the army long enough to position people to drive ambulances. if you have a stroke or heart attack and just because of your postcode no ambulance can get to you because the unions would not agree in advance, as the nurses have done, to tell their employers where the strikes will be occurring, that's why i'm introducing minimum safety levels. and that is legislation we have talked about on other occasions, but do you think strikes as they will unfold this week in the health service are morally wrong? tie. unfold this week in the health service are morally wrong? no, i think people _ service are morally wrong? no, i think people have _ service are morally wrong? no, i think people have a _ service are morally wrong? no, i think people have a right - service are morally wrong? no, i think people have a right to - service are morally wrong? thy, u think people have a right to strike but also they have a right to life and limb and livelihood by the way, which is why minimum service levels are so important and why i'm surprised the opposition is voting against those initiatives. iltrut’heh surprised the opposition is voting against those initiatives. when can we exect against those initiatives. when can we expect the _ against those initiatives. when can we expect the government - against those initiatives. when can we expect the government to - against those initiatives. when can we expect the government to sort| we expect the government to sort this out? it feels like we have talked about this almost every week for some months now, and privately

speaking to people in government i hear often that nothing will change until we get to the budget, which is in the middle of march. is that a reality check situation, that we have to tolerate strikes until then? no, i don't think we need to be having the strikes at all. the reality is over a million nhs workers got a pay rise last year, there is a pay rise on the table this year. to clarify, the system is agreed by the unions, asked for by the unions that there is an independent pay review body that accepts evidence from the unions and management and then recommend a figure to the government. in every case, five separate cases, the government has entirely accepted the independent pay review body figure. so we have accepted the evidence and made that pay offer, i think it's important people know it is not the government withholding money that has been proposed.— has been proposed. some recommendations - has been proposed. some

recommendations are... i | has been proposed. some - recommendations are... i think five have been rejected _ recommendations are... i think five have been rejected in _ recommendations are... i think five have been rejected in 20 _ recommendations are... i think five have been rejected in 20 years. - recommendations are... i think five have been rejected in 20 years. we | have been re'ected in 20 years. we will see have been rejected in 20 years. we will see what happens in the next few weeks but as things stand, the strikes are set to go ahead. briefly, last night there was a dramatic development, a very significant moment. the united states shut down this spy balloon that had appeared in the skies over montana, i think. that had appeared in the skies over montana, ithink. if that had appeared in the skies over montana, i think. if that had happened over the uk, if there had been a chinese spy balloon here, would the uk have done the same? first of all we fully support the us and the action they have taken. it cannot be right to send spy balloons floating over mainland of the united states, and the uk would always take its national security very seriously in a different realm to do with national security investments. i personally am responsible for judging whether the chinese and any other country is able to take over british firm, and where there is perhaps intelligence information, i

do act and have acted. hand perhaps intelligence information, i do act and have acted.— perhaps intelligence information, i do act and have acted. and are you bein: do act and have acted. and are you being tough _ do act and have acted. and are you being tough enough _ do act and have acted. and are you being tough enough on _ do act and have acted. and are you being tough enough on that? - do act and have acted. and are you i being tough enough on that? because some backbenchers are concerned that on those kind of decisions, stopping a chinese firm investing in a crucial uk technology for example, that you are not always being as tough as you ought to be. h that you are not always being as tough as you ought to be. i have acted in a _ tough as you ought to be. i have acted in a very — tough as you ought to be. i have acted in a very high _ tough as you ought to be. i have acted in a very high profile - tough as you ought to be. i have acted in a very high profile case | acted in a very high profile case under court review which has been extremely tough, on the other hand we want to be a country that is open for investment, but not areas that might impact on our national security and that is where we draw the line. , ., ,, ., , ,, ., ,, security and that is where we draw theline. ,., ,, ., the line. grant shapps, thank you for bein: the line. grant shapps, thank you for being in _ the line. grant shapps, thank you for being in the _ the line. grant shapps, thank you for being in the studio _ the line. grant shapps, thank you for being in the studio this - for being in the studio this morning. there is a lot to digester from that interview. grant shapps responding to liz truss's broadside, almost everyone in the sunday telegraph this morning. let's speak to jake berry who worked closely with her as the party chair. what did you make of grant shapps there? he disputed your claim. t

did you make of grant shapps there? he disputed your claim.— he disputed your claim. i think it was a moment _ he disputed your claim. i think it was a moment of— he disputed your claim. i think it was a moment of great - he disputed your claim. i think it i was a moment of great agreement, which doesn't make for the best tv. steady! which doesn't make for the best tv. stead ! ~ ., ., ., steady! what i would say about liz truss's article _ steady! what i would say about liz truss's article is _ steady! what i would say about liz truss's article is that _ steady! what i would say about liz truss's article is that where - steady! what i would say about liz truss's article is that where she i truss's article is that where she has got it wrong is the idea that we haven't seen the conservative party advocating growth and low taxes. we did see that from borisjohnson, and that led to the greatest general election victory for the conservative party this century. ht conservative party this century. it didn't lead to much growth in the economy though. but didn't lead to much growth in the economy though.— didn't lead to much growth in the economy though. but it is popular with the public... _ economy though. but it is popular with the public... well, _ economy though. but it is popular with the public... well, of - economy though. but it is popular with the public... well, of course | with the public... well, of course we had covid immediately after the election so there were limitations on what could be done but it's popular with the public to be optimistic, to make sure they keep more of their money in the first place. and actually rishi sunak in his five ambitions he set out partially set some of that out saying i'm going to create growth and tackle inflation, the creeping stealth tax on families in this country. if it can get back to

optimistic ways, it will unite the conservative party.— optimistic ways, it will unite the conservative party. what you told our viewers _ conservative party. what you told our viewers rishi _ conservative party. what you told our viewers rishi sunak _ conservative party. what you told our viewers rishi sunak had - conservative party. what you told our viewers rishi sunak had six i our viewers rishi sunak had six months to turn it around, how is he faring? he months to turn it around, how is he farinu ? . , months to turn it around, how is he farin. ? ., , , ., months to turn it around, how is he farinu ? ., , ., ., , faring? he has several months left but he's made _ faring? he has several months left but he's made a _ faring? he has several months left but he's made a good _ faring? he has several months left but he's made a good start, - faring? he has several months left but he's made a good start, he - faring? he has several months left| but he's made a good start, he has stabilised the economy and politics. it's all got very dull but that is goodin it's all got very dull but that is good in this case. he has set out his five pledges. i'm interested in the one to create growth and how he will stop the small boats is one of his five pledges, and if he delivers on that the british public will see he's a man who says what he will do and gets on with it.— and gets on with it. what did you make of what _ and gets on with it. what did you make of what grant _ and gets on with it. what did you make of what grant shapps - and gets on with it. what did you make of what grant shapps had i make of what grant shapps had to say? make of what grant shapps had to sa ? ., , ., ., make of what grant shapps had to sa ? ., ,., ., ., ., say? the reason we have a high tax economy is — say? the reason we have a high tax economy is because _ say? the reason we have a high tax economy is because we _ say? the reason we have a high tax economy is because we have - say? the reason we have a high tax economy is because we have a - say? the reason we have a high tax economy is because we have a low| economy is because we have a low growth _ economy is because we have a low growth economy and we have seen at best anaemic growth under 30 years of this— best anaemic growth under 30 years of this government, and nothing we have seen— of this government, and nothing we have seen from jeremy hunt will change _ have seen from jeremy hunt will change that. we have a clear plan on growth _

change that. we have a clear plan on growth one — change that. we have a clear plan on growth. one of your former guests, the chair— growth. one of your former guests, the chair of— growth. one of your former guests, the chair of tesco, said we were the only team _ the chair of tesco, said we were the only team on — the chair of tesco, said we were the only team on the pitch in terms of growth _ only team on the pitch in terms of growth whether that's on clean energy. — growth whether that's on clean energy, backing businesses and working — energy, backing businesses and working in partnership, in an industrial— working in partnership, in an industrial strategy are investing in skills— industrial strategy are investing in skills we _ industrial strategy are investing in skills we need for the future. that is the _ skills we need for the future. that is the unspoken thing in the room and in _ is the unspoken thing in the room and in grant — is the unspoken thing in the room and in grant shapps' interview, and it leads _ and in grant shapps' interview, and it leads back to the discussion on strikes _ it leads back to the discussion on strikes and — it leads back to the discussion on strikes and pay and the state of our public— strikes and pay and the state of our public services. because unless we grow— public services. because unless we grow the _ public services. because unless we grow the economy, we won't have the money— grow the economy, we won't have the money to— grow the economy, we won't have the money to put into public services and deliver— money to put into public services and deliver a pay deal for staff, and deliver a pay deal for staff, and the — and deliver a pay deal for staff, and the public are looking up 13 years— and the public are looking up 13 years of— and the public are looking up 13 years of this government saying are we better— years of this government saying are we better off? am i more likely to be able _ we better off? am i more likely to be able to— we better off? am i more likely to be able to see a gp? get from a to b on the— be able to see a gp? get from a to b on the rail— be able to see a gp? get from a to b on the rail system? and the answer is no _ on the rail system? and the answer is no. ., . , on the rail system? and the answer is no. ., ., , , ., on the rail system? and the answer isno. ., ., , ,., , ., is no. you are putting profit before --eole. is no. you are putting profit before people- unless _ is no. you are putting profit before people. unless you _ is no. you are putting profit before people. unless you have _ is no. you are putting profit before people. unless you have a - is no. you are putting profit before people. unless you have a growing economy... i'm glad finally the labour party has woken up because in jeremy corbyn's manifesto that would

have completely trashed the economy, the labour party repeatedly refers to the conservative putting profit over people. we don't but we understand you cannot have fantastic public services without a growing economy and that is what rishi has set out. we economy and that is what rishi has set out. ~ . economy and that is what rishi has setout. . . ., , economy and that is what rishi has setout. . . ., economy and that is what rishi has setout. . .. �* , set out. we are champions of british business. set out. we are champions of british business- we _ set out. we are champions of british business. we are _ set out. we are champions of british business. we are working _ set out. we are champions of british business. we are working with - business. we are working with partnership with them whether it's on green _ partnership with them whether it's on green energy, cutting business rates _ on green energy, cutting business rates and — on green energy, cutting business rates and putting on a new system and getting the skills our business definitely— and getting the skills our business definitely need, and that's why people — definitely need, and that's why people like the cbi say we are losing — people like the cbi say we are losing the race on green energy, when _ losing the race on green energy, when clean energy was ours to own. it is businesses saying they are not getting _ it is businesses saying they are not getting a _ it is businesses saying they are not getting a deal. it is businesses saying they are not getting a deal-— getting a deal. kate, what did you make of what _ getting a deal. kate, what did you make of what grant _ getting a deal. kate, what did you make of what grant shapps - getting a deal. kate, what did you make of what grant shapps had i getting a deal. kate, what did youj make of what grant shapps had to say? make of what grant shapps had to sa ? , , say? the first thing is in the rivate say? the first thing is in the private sector _ say? the first thing is in the private sector it _ say? the first thing is in the private sector it would - say? the first thing is in the private sector it would be i say? the first thing is in the - private sector it would be pretty unusual— private sector it would be pretty unusual to — private sector it would be pretty unusual to have _ private sector it would be pretty unusual to have a _ private sector it would be pretty unusual to have a lot _ private sector it would be pretty unusual to have a lot of - private sector it would be prettyl unusual to have a lot of ex—ceos around _ unusual to have a lot of ex—ceos around judging _ unusual to have a lot of ex—ceos around judging so— unusual to have a lot of ex—ceos around judging so it's _ unusual to have a lot of ex—ceos around judging so it's unusual. unusual to have a lot of ex—ceos around judging so it's unusual toj around judging so it's unusual to have _ around judging so it's unusual to have so— around judging so it's unusual to have so many— around judging so it's unusual to have so many ex _ around judging so it's unusual to

have so many ex leaders - around judging so it's unusual to - have so many ex leaders commenting and giving _ have so many ex leaders commenting and giving their— have so many ex leaders commenting and giving their thoughts. _ have so many ex leaders commenting and giving their thoughts. obviously. and giving their thoughts. obviously we need _ and giving their thoughts. obviously we need a _ and giving their thoughts. obviously we need a growing _ and giving their thoughts. obviously we need a growing economy, - and giving their thoughts. obviously we need a growing economy, therel and giving their thoughts. obviously. we need a growing economy, there is no question— we need a growing economy, there is no question about _ we need a growing economy, there is no question about that, _ we need a growing economy, there is no question about that, and - we need a growing economy, there is no question about that, and again - we need a growing economy, there is no question about that, and again asi no question about that, and again as an investor. — no question about that, and again as an investor. we _ no question about that, and again as an investor, we need _ no question about that, and again as an investor, we need to _ no question about that, and again as an investor, we need to have - no question about that, and again as an investor, we need to have a - no question about that, and again as an investor, we need to have a place where _ an investor, we need to have a place where we _ an investor, we need to have a place where we can— an investor, we need to have a place where we can attract _ an investor, we need to have a place where we can attract investment - an investor, we need to have a place| where we can attract investment into our businesses. _ where we can attract investment into our businesses, into— where we can attract investment into our businesses, into our— where we can attract investment into our businesses, into our small, - our businesses, into our small, growing. — our businesses, into our small, growing, innovative _ our businesses, into our small, | growing, innovative companies. our businesses, into our small, i growing, innovative companies. [5 growing, innovative companies. [£3 the uk growing, innovative companies. the uk like that right now? in growing, innovative companies]! the uk like that right now? in the tory party there are lots of people like liz truss who think it is soggy centrist. does it look like a nimble, exciting place right now? ht nimble, exciting place right now? it has lots of really good things and i do accept — has lots of really good things and i do accept it— has lots of really good things and i do accept it is— has lots of really good things and i do accept it is much— has lots of really good things and i do accept it is much more - has lots of really good things and i do accept it is much more stable i has lots of really good things and i. do accept it is much more stable now as an _ do accept it is much more stable now as an economy— do accept it is much more stable now as an economy but _ do accept it is much more stable now as an economy but we _ do accept it is much more stable now as an economy but we have - do accept it is much more stable now as an economy but we have to - do accept it is much more stable now as an economy but we have to be - do accept it is much more stable now. as an economy but we have to be more outward _ as an economy but we have to be more outward looking — as an economy but we have to be more outward looking and _ as an economy but we have to be more outward looking and engaging - as an economy but we have to be more outward looking and engaging with - outward looking and engaging with industry— outward looking and engaging with industry to— outward looking and engaging with industry to attract _ outward looking and engaging with industry to attract the _ outward looking and engaging with industry to attract the investment i industry to attract the investment we need — industry to attract the investment we need l— industry to attract the investment we need. , ., ., , ., ., we need. i 'ust want to show our viewers we need. i just want to show our viewers the _ we need. i just want to show our viewers the pictures _ we need. i just want to show our viewers the pictures of _ we need. i just want to show our viewers the pictures of the - we need. i just want to show our viewers the pictures of the spy l viewers the pictures of the spy balloon in the us shutdown overnight. we heard from grant shapps that the uk is right behind the americans taking that kind of action, but from a business point of view, is there anxiety about china

trying to take technology in a way that we should be worried about, kate? irate that we should be worried about, kate? ~ . , .., that we should be worried about, kate? ~ . , ., kate? we are very careful about protecting _ kate? we are very careful about protecting intellectual _ kate? we are very careful about protecting intellectual property | kate? we are very careful about i protecting intellectual property so that is _ protecting intellectual property so that is fundamentally _ protecting intellectual property so that is fundamentally what - protecting intellectual property so that is fundamentally what we - protecting intellectual property so i that is fundamentally what we build in order— that is fundamentally what we build in order to — that is fundamentally what we build in order to develop _ that is fundamentally what we build in order to develop new— that is fundamentally what we build in order to develop new drugs - in order to develop new drugs and vaccines — in order to develop new drugs and vaccines and _ in order to develop new drugs and vaccines. and yes, _ in order to develop new drugs and vaccines. and yes, i— in order to develop new drugs and vaccines. and yes, ithink- in order to develop new drugs and vaccines. and yes, i think we - in order to develop new drugs and vaccines. and yes, i think we are i vaccines. and yes, i think we are concerned — vaccines. and yes, i think we are concerned about— vaccines. and yes, i think we are concerned about losing - vaccines. and yes, i think we are concerned about losing our - vaccines. and yes, i think we are concerned about losing our right| vaccines. and yes, i think we are i concerned about losing our right to be able _ concerned about losing our right to be able to — concerned about losing our right to be able to develop _ concerned about losing our right to be able to develop those _ concerned about losing our right to| be able to develop those innovative drugs _ be able to develop those innovative drugs there — be able to develop those innovative drugs there are _ be able to develop those innovative drugs. there are strong _ be able to develop those innovative drugs. there are strong laws- be able to develop those innovative drugs. there are strong laws in- drugs. there are strong laws in place _ drugs. there are strong laws in place actually _ drugs. there are strong laws in place actually. in _ drugs. there are strong laws in place actually. in the _ drugs. there are strong laws in place actually. in the us - drugs. there are strong laws in place actually. in the us and i drugs. there are strong laws in. place actually. in the us and the same _ place actually. in the us and the same over— place actually. in the us and the same over here _ place actually. in the us and the same over here preventing - place actually. in the us and the i same over here preventing foreign states— same over here preventing foreign states acquiring _ same over here preventing foreign states acquiring potentially- states acquiring potentially important _ states acquiring potentially important technology. i states acquiring potentially important technology. is i states acquiring potentially important technology. states acquiring potentially imortant technolo: . . , ., ., important technology. as we have got ou here important technology. as we have got you here and — important technology. as we have got you here and people _ important technology. as we have got you here and people know _ important technology. as we have got you here and people know you - important technology. as we have got you here and people know you from i you here and people know you from having spearheaded the vaccine task force, we want to have some positivity about the kind of solutions that might be out there for health care because we have talked so much about things going wrong and the challenges which are very real, but can you tell us some exciting examples of approaches, new innovations that might make things better? , ., ,., better? yes! there are some fantastic _ better? yes! there are some fantastic things _ better? yes! there are some fantastic things and -

better? yes! there are some fantastic things and the i better? yes! there are some i fantastic things and the pandemic showed _ fantastic things and the pandemic showed us — fantastic things and the pandemic showed us how— fantastic things and the pandemic showed us how good _ fantastic things and the pandemic showed us how good we - fantastic things and the pandemic showed us how good we can - fantastic things and the pandemic showed us how good we can be i fantastic things and the pandemic - showed us how good we can be working together~ _ showed us how good we can be working together~ the _ showed us how good we can be working together. the human _ showed us how good we can be working together. the human genome - showed us how good we can be working together. the human genome project, | together. the human genome project, the uk _ together. the human genome project, the uk is _ together. the human genome project, the uk is a _ together. the human genome project, the uk is a world — together. the human genome project, the uk is a world leader— together. the human genome project, the uk is a world leader in _ together. the human genome project, the uk is a world leader in the - the uk is a world leader in the understanding _ the uk is a world leader in the understanding of— the uk is a world leader in the understanding of genomics i the uk is a world leader in the l understanding of genomics and the uk is a world leader in the - understanding of genomics and how genetics _ understanding of genomics and how genetics drive — understanding of genomics and how genetics drive disease, _ understanding of genomics and how genetics drive disease, so - understanding of genomics and how genetics drive disease, so the - understanding of genomics and how genetics drive disease, so the more we can— genetics drive disease, so the more we can understand _ genetics drive disease, so the more we can understand how— genetics drive disease, so the more we can understand how biology- genetics drive disease, so the more i we can understand how biology causes disease, _ we can understand how biology causes disease, the _ we can understand how biology causes disease, the more _ we can understand how biology causes disease, the more we _ we can understand how biology causes disease, the more we can— we can understand how biology causes disease, the more we can focus- we can understand how biology causes disease, the more we can focus on- disease, the more we can focus on new drugs— disease, the more we can focus on new drugs and _ disease, the more we can focus on new drugs and we _ disease, the more we can focus on new drugs and we are _ disease, the more we can focus on new drugs and we are really - disease, the more we can focus on new drugs and we are really good i new drugs and we are really good at that _ new drugs and we are really good at that and _ new drugs and we are really good at that and we — new drugs and we are really good at that and we are _ new drugs and we are really good at that. and we are really _ new drugs and we are really good at that. and we are really good - that. and we are really good at data _ that. and we are really good at data we — that. and we are really good at data. we have _ that. and we are really good at data. we have plenty— that. and we are really good at data. we have plenty of- that. and we are really good at data. we have plenty of ai i data. we have plenty of ai analytics, _ data. we have plenty of ai analytics, machine - data. we have plenty of all analytics, machine learning capability _ analytics, machine learning capability. again, - analytics, machine learning| capability. again, combined analytics, machine learning i capability. again, combined with analytics, machine learning - capability. again, combined with the fact we _ capability. again, combined with the fact we all— capability. again, combined with the fact we all have _ capability. again, combined with the fact we all have an _ capability. again, combined with the fact we all have an nhs— capability. again, combined with the fact we all have an nhs record - capability. again, combined with the fact we all have an nhs record so i capability. again, combined with the| fact we all have an nhs record so we have population _ fact we all have an nhs record so we have population scale _ have population scale electronic health— have population scale electronic health records, _ have population scale electronic health records, that's _ have population scale electronic health records, that's huge i have population scale electronic health records, that's huge so i have population scale electronic. health records, that's huge so that then leads — health records, that's huge so that then leads into— health records, that's huge so that then leads into what _ health records, that's huge so that then leads into what is _ health records, that's huge so that then leads into what is the - health records, that's huge so that then leads into what is the uk'si then leads into what is the uk's ability— then leads into what is the uk's ability to— then leads into what is the uk's ability to diagnose _ then leads into what is the uk's ability to diagnose disease i then leads into what is the uk's| ability to diagnose disease early and intervene _ ability to diagnose disease early and intervene quickly? - ability to diagnose disease early and intervene quickly? we - ability to diagnose disease early and intervene quickly? we are i ability to diagnose disease early i and intervene quickly? we are very well set _ and intervene quickly? we are very well set up — and intervene quickly? we are very well set up to — and intervene quickly? we are very well set up to do _ and intervene quickly? we are very well set up to do that. _ and intervene quickly? we are very well set up to do that. if _ and intervene quickly? we are very well set up to do that. if i - and intervene quickly? we are very well set up to do that. if i paint- and intervene quickly? we are very well set up to do that. if i paint a i well set up to do that. if i paint a picture. — well set up to do that. if i paint a picture. supposing— well set up to do that. if i paint a picture, supposing you _ well set up to do that. if i paint a picture, supposing you go - well set up to do that. if i paint a picture, supposing you go in i well set up to do that. if i paint aj picture, supposing you go in your middle-age — picture, supposing you go in your middle—age into _ picture, supposing you go in your middle—age into boots _ picture, supposing you go in your middle—age into boots and - picture, supposing you go in your middle—age into boots and get i picture, supposing you go in your middle—age into boots and get a| middle—age into boots and get a blood _ middle—age into boots and get a blood test — middle—age into boots and get a blood test and _ middle—age into boots and get a blood test and they— middle—age into boots and get a blood test and they say- middle—age into boots and get a blood test and they say your i blood test and they say your cholesterol _ blood test and they say your cholesterol is _ blood test and they say your

cholesterol is a _ blood test and they say your cholesterol is a bit - blood test and they say your cholesterol is a bit high i blood test and they say your cholesterol is a bit high and | blood test and they say your i cholesterol is a bit high and they -ive cholesterol is a bit high and they give you — cholesterol is a bit high and they give you statins _ cholesterol is a bit high and they give you statins or _ cholesterol is a bit high and they give you statins or say _ cholesterol is a bit high and they give you statins or say don't i cholesterol is a bit high and they give you statins or say don't eat| cholesterol is a bit high and they. give you statins or say don't eat as much _ give you statins or say don't eat as much cake! — give you statins or say don't eat as much cake!— give you statins or say don't eat as much cake! ., ., ., much cake! the moment we all dread! but alongside — much cake! the moment we all dread! but alongside that _ much cake! the moment we all dread! but alongside that they _ much cake! the moment we all dread! but alongside that they say _ much cake! the moment we all dread! but alongside that they say by - much cake! the moment we all dread! but alongside that they say by the i but alongside that they say by the way you _ but alongside that they say by the way you have _ but alongside that they say by the way you have some _ but alongside that they say by the way you have some circulating i but alongside that they say by the i way you have some circulating cancer dna and _ way you have some circulating cancer dna and we — way you have some circulating cancer dna and we will_ way you have some circulating cancer dna and we will now _ way you have some circulating cancer dna and we will now give _ way you have some circulating cancer dna and we will now give you - dna and we will now give you an of“he-shelf— dna and we will now give you an off—the—shelf cancer— dna and we will now give you an off—the—shelf cancer vaccine just i off—the—shelf cancer vaccine just like flu _ off—the—shelf cancer vaccine just like flu jab — off—the—shelf cancer vaccine just like flu jab to _ off—the—shelf cancer vaccine just like flu jab to address _ off—the—shelf cancer vaccine just like flu jab to address that - like flu jab to address that potential— like flu jab to address that potential cancer _ like flu jab to address that potential cancer which- like flu jab to address that potential cancer which is l like flu jab to address that . potential cancer which is not yet image _ potential cancer which is not yet image a — potential cancer which is not yet image a ball— potential cancer which is not yet image a ball but _ potential cancer which is not yet image a ball but we _ potential cancer which is not yet image a ball but we have - potential cancer which is not yet . image a ball but we have detected potential cancer which is not yet - image a ball but we have detected it in the _ image a ball but we have detected it in the dna — image a ball but we have detected it in the dna. that— image a ball but we have detected it in the dna. that is— image a ball but we have detected it in the dna. that is something - image a ball but we have detected it in the dna. that is something that. in the dna. that is something that can start _ in the dna. that is something that can start to— in the dna. that is something that can start to potentially— in the dna. that is something that can start to potentially treat - can start to potentially treat disease _ can start to potentially treat disease way _ can start to potentially treat disease way earlier- can start to potentially treat disease way earlier than - can start to potentially treat disease way earlier than we| disease way earlier than we currently _ disease way earlier than we currently d0~ _ disease way earlier than we currently do. the _ disease way earlier than we currently do. the more - disease way earlier than we currently do. the more we| disease way earlier than we i currently do. the more we can diagnose — currently do. the more we can diagnose and _ currently do. the more we can diagnose and identify - currently do. the more we can diagnose and identify disease i diagnose and identify disease earlier, — diagnose and identify disease earlier, the _ diagnose and identify disease earlier, the much— diagnose and identify disease earlier, the much better- diagnose and identify disease earlier, the much better the. diagnose and identify disease - earlier, the much better the outcome which _ earlier, the much better the outcome which nreans— earlier, the much better the outcome which means we _ earlier, the much better the outcome which means we can _ earlier, the much better the outcome which means we can be _ earlier, the much better the outcome which means we can be more - which means we can be more economically— which means we can be more economically productive - which means we can be more economically productive and| which means we can be more i economically productive and the sorts— economically productive and the sorts of— economically productive and the sorts of things _ economically productive and the sorts of things we _ economically productive and the sorts of things we can _ economically productive and the sorts of things we can do - economically productive and the sorts of things we can do in- economically productive and the sorts of things we can do in the| economically productive and the . sorts of things we can do in the uk in our— sorts of things we can do in the uk in our clinical— sorts of things we can do in the uk in our clinical trials— sorts of things we can do in the uk in our clinical trials and _ in our clinical trials and population— in our clinical trials and population scale - in our clinical trials and population scale is - in our clinical trials and i population scale is beyond in our clinical trials and - population scale is beyond what in our clinical trials and _ population scale is beyond what any other— population scale is beyond what any other country— population scale is beyond what any other country can _ population scale is beyond what any other country can do. _ do you think the government or the opposition parties are grasping those opportunities thermally enough? in those opportunities thermally enou~h? , those opportunities thermally enou . h? , ., those opportunities thermally enou~h? , ., ~ those opportunities thermally enou~h? , ., . . . enough? in my view, not. we have a fraaile enough? in my view, not. we have a fragile relationship _ enough? in my view, not. we have a fragile relationship with _ enough? in my view, not. we have a

fragile relationship with industry. - fragile relationship with industry. and we _ fragile relationship with industry. and we have _ fragile relationship with industry. and we have to _ fragile relationship with industry. and we have to get _ fragile relationship with industry. and we have to get advanced - and we have to get advanced manufacturing _ and we have to get advanced manufacturing sorted - and we have to get advanced manufacturing sorted out. i and we have to get advanced i manufacturing sorted out. we and we have to get advanced - manufacturing sorted out. we have to work with _ manufacturing sorted out. we have to work with industry _ manufacturing sorted out. we have to work with industry in _ manufacturing sorted out. we have to work with industry in terms _ manufacturing sorted out. we have to work with industry in terms of- work with industry in terms of pandemic— work with industry in terms of pandemic resilience _ work with industry in terms of pandemic resilience was - work with industry in terms of pandemic resilience was thati work with industry in terms of. pandemic resilience was that the government— pandemic resilience was that the government signed _ pandemic resilience was that the government signed up— pandemic resilience was that the government signed up to - pandemic resilience was that the government signed up to a - pandemic resilience was that the government signed up to a 100 i pandemic resilience was that the . government signed up to a 100 day plan _ government signed up to a 100 day plan you _ government signed up to a 100 day plan. you can't— government signed up to a 100 day plan. you can't do— government signed up to a 100 day plan. you can't do that _ government signed up to a 100 day plan. you can't do that unless - government signed up to a 100 day plan. you can't do that unless you i plan. you can't do that unless you work— plan. you can't do that unless you work cooperatively _ plan. you can't do that unless you work cooperatively with _ plan. you can't do that unless you work cooperatively with industry, i work cooperatively with industry, and that— work cooperatively with industry, and that is— work cooperatively with industry, and that is not— work cooperatively with industry, and that is not happening. - work cooperatively with industry, and that is not happening. jakej work cooperatively with industry, and that is not happening. jake, why isn't that happening? _ and that is not happening. jake, why isn't that happening? you _ and that is not happening. jake, why isn't that happening? you have - and that is not happening. jake, why isn't that happening? you have told | isn't that happening? you have told our view is that we have to do the economy in a different way, and they are not listening, why not? fine economy in a different way, and they are not listening, why not?— are not listening, why not? one of the challenges _ are not listening, why not? one of the challenges all _ are not listening, why not? one of the challenges all governments i are not listening, why not? one of. the challenges all governments faced with the nhs is the constant lurching from crisis to crisis. when you are dealing with record waiting times at a&e, we are actually seeing across the globe... but times at a&e, we are actually seeing across the globe. . ._ across the globe... but you have been in charge _ across the globe. .. but you have been in charge for— across the globe... but you have been in charge for 13 _ across the globe... but you have been in charge for 13 years. - across the globe... but you have been in charge for 13 years. it's i been in charge for 13 years. it's hard to look — been in charge for 13 years. it�*s hard to look forward to the brilliant things kate is suggesting. i think preventative medicine is exactly where the nhs should be going and we do need to give more time and energy to it. but going and we do need to give more time and energy to it.— time and energy to it. but we have not an time and energy to it. but we have got an nhs — time and energy to it. but we have got an nhs which _ time and energy to it. but we have got an nhs which has _ time and energy to it. but we have got an nhs which has a _ time and energy to it. but we have got an nhs which has a 1% - got an nhs which has a 1% productivity _ got an nhs which has a 1% productivity gain— got an nhs which has a 1% productivity gain every- got an nhs which has a 1% l productivity gain every year. got an nhs which has a 1% - productivity gain every year. we have _ productivity gain every year. we have had — productivity gain every year. we have had a — productivity gain every year. we have had a massive _ productivity gain every year. we have had a massive setback- productivity gain every year. we . have had a massive setback during covid _ have had a massive setback during covid and — have had a massive setback during covid and we — have had a massive setback during covid and we are _ have had a massive setback during covid and we are probably - have had a massive setback during

covid and we are probably set - have had a massive setback during covid and we are probably set 15 l covid and we are probably set 15 years _ covid and we are probably set 15 years plus, _ covid and we are probably set 15 years plus, it— covid and we are probably set 15 years plus. it you _ covid and we are probably set 15 years plus, if you look— covid and we are probably set 15 years plus, if you look at - covid and we are probably set 15 years plus, if you look at the - covid and we are probably set 15 . years plus, if you look at the data. and we _ years plus, if you look at the data. and we are — years plus, if you look at the data. and we are still— years plus, if you look at the data. and we are still projecting - years plus, if you look at the data. and we are still projecting a - years plus, if you look at the data. and we are still projecting a 1% - and we are still projecting a 1% improvement— and we are still projecting a 1% improvement in— and we are still projecting a 1% improvement in nhs— and we are still projecting a 1% i improvement in nhs productivity. and we are still projecting a 1% - improvement in nhs productivity. so it inadequate — improvement in nhs productivity. so it inadequate lt— improvement in nhs productivity. so it inadequate-— it inadequate. it needs real reform. the nhs needs _ it inadequate. it needs real reform. the nhs needs investment - it inadequate. it needs real reform. the nhs needs investment and - it inadequate. it needs real reform. - the nhs needs investment and reform. we have _ the nhs needs investment and reform. we have to _ the nhs needs investment and reform. we have to start with getting the workforce in place, which is why we have _ workforce in place, which is why we have set _ workforce in place, which is why we have set out — workforce in place, which is why we have set out our plans for the biggest — have set out our plans for the biggest ever expansion of the nhs workforce, paid for by removing the non-dom _ workforce, paid for by removing the non—dom tax status. but kate is right _ non—dom tax status. but kate is right we — non—dom tax status. but kate is right. we need a shift to prevention. and i would argue that that is— prevention. and i would argue that that is not— prevention. and i would argue that that is notjust about drugs, it's about— that is notjust about drugs, it's about using new technology so people can monitor long—term conditions at home _ can monitor long—term conditions at home it's _ can monitor long—term conditions at home. it's aboutjoining up can monitor long—term conditions at home. it's about joining up teams can monitor long—term conditions at home. it's aboutjoining up teams so people _ home. it's aboutjoining up teams so people don't— home. it's aboutjoining up teams so people don't have to scrabble around the system. it is really about helping — the system. it is really about helping people prevent illness in the first— helping people prevent illness in the first place and get the treatments early on but crucially, all of _ treatments early on but crucially, all of the — treatments early on but crucially, all of the debate is about hospitals. we need a huge focus on care in— hospitals. we need a huge focus on care in the — hospitals. we need a huge focus on care in the community and at home. with the _ care in the community and at home. with the right staff, technology and data _ with the right staff, technology and data. when i used to work for the

ambulance — data. when i used to work for the ambulance service, we knew people who were _ ambulance service, we knew people who were calling 20 or 30 times a year _ who were calling 20 or 30 times a year use — who were calling 20 or 30 times a year. use that data, identify the person— year. use that data, identify the person with a problem and put the film person with a problem and put the right to _ person with a problem and put the right to put in at home. we person with a problem and put the right to put in at home.— right to put in at home. we must leave that _ right to put in at home. we must leave that for _ right to put in at home. we must leave that for now, _ right to put in at home. we must leave that for now, but _ right to put in at home. we must leave that for now, but i - right to put in at home. we must leave that for now, but i did - leave that for now, but i did promise all of you when we went on air in september that we would bring you positive things to talk about as well as just tricky news. something of that is exciting think that if you're not going to be glued to happy valley tonight, we have a recommendation for some other incredible television, some sadly real—life drama. if you missed the first episode of putin versus the west, i thoroughly recommend you catch up on it and the rest of the series on the iplayer. here is a snapshot of episode two, where putin turns his attention to the middle east. this turns his attention to the middle east. �* . turns his attention to the middle east. . , , , , ., turns his attention to the middle east. ,, east. as the uprisings of the arab s - rinu east. as the uprisings of the arab spring tear _ east. as the uprisings of the arab spring tear through _ east. as the uprisings of the arab spring tear through the _ east. as the uprisings of the arab spring tear through the middle i east. as the uprisings of the arab i spring tear through the middle east, the west tried to enlist putin as peacemaker. the west tried to enlist putin as peacemaker-— peacemaker. having been an irrelevant — peacemaker. having been an irrelevant factor _ peacemaker. having been an irrelevant factor in _ peacemaker. having been an irrelevant factor in the - peacemaker. having been an | irrelevant factor in the middle peacemaker. having been an - irrelevant factor in the middle east for so _ irrelevant factor in the middle east for so long, suddenly the russians are back —

for so long, suddenly the russians are back. but for so long, suddenly the russians are back. �* ,, . for so long, suddenly the russians are back. �* , , . , , are back. but the russian president, ex-aloitin are back. but the russian president, exploiting the _ are back. but the russian president, exploiting the west's _ are back. but the russian president, exploiting the west's in _ are back. but the russian president, exploiting the west's in action, - exploiting the west's in action, shows how far he is willing to go to keep his allies in power. putin doesnt keep his allies in power. putin doesn't care — keep his allies in power. putin doesn't care about _ keep his allies in power. putin doesn't care about the - keep his allies in power. putin doesn't care about the loss i keep his allies in power. putin doesn't care about the loss of| keep his allies in power. putin doesn't care about the loss of life. he doesn't— doesn't care about the loss of life. he doesn't care about the damage it inflicts, _ he doesn't care about the damage it inflicts, he _ he doesn't care about the damage it inflicts, he doesn't care about what he does _ inflicts, he doesn't care about what he does to— inflicts, he doesn't care about what he does to civilians.— he does to civilians. tomorrow, nurses will— he does to civilians. tomorrow, nurses will walk _ he does to civilians. tomorrow, nurses will walk out _ he does to civilians. tomorrow, nurses will walk out again in i nurses will walk out again in england and they will be joined by many other nhs workers in what will be the biggest strike in the history of the health service. but in wales, there has been a glimmer of a deal and the strike has been put on pause. so what is going on? we can talk to the leader of the unite union, which represents many of the nhs staff, sharon graham, who is in cardiff, where there have been talks this weekend. firstly, what is going on in wales? there are some unions that have caused the strikes. truth? that have caused the strikes. why won't ou that have caused the strikes. why won't you do _ that have caused the strikes. why won't you do the _ that have caused the strikes. tarry won't you do the same?

that have caused the strikes. “ltd'iy won't you do the same? i that have caused the strikes. “ltd“ig' won't you do the same? i am in that have caused the strikes. “ltd“iy won't you do the same? i am in wales and i have been all weekend, trying to get to the deal we need to give to get to the deal we need to give to our members to solve the disputes. we are not there yet. now we need wales to come back to the table. i meeting the health minister later today to see if we can get a deal. the important thing is that it is in stark contrast, scotland and wales, to what is happening in england. ijust heard the interview with grant shapps. it is the eve of the biggest nhs strike in our history, and he has nothing to say about it. where is rishi sunak? why is he not at the negotiating table? that is where he should be was that he did have something to say to our viewers. he he did have something to say to our viewers. , ., . , viewers. he said you are putting lives at risk _ viewers. he said you are putting lives at risk and _ viewers. he said you are putting lives at risk and patience i viewers. he said you are putting lives at risk and patience will. viewers. he said you are putting lives at risk and patience will be | lives at risk and patience will be harmed by your decision to walk out. well, this government is putting lives at risk. let me give you a stat. 500 people are dying every

single week, 500 waiting for an ambulance. so we are trying to get paid, because we need to solve the workforce crisis. but we are also trying to make sure that patients are much safer than they are. it's almost like there is a strike in the nhs every day. we have 130,000 vacancies, so we are doing our best to solve this dispute, but it's going to take investment in the nhs. the nhs in england does dispute that figure, to make that clear to our viewers. but the state of play and how desperate things are exactly the reason why working out is going to put patients in more peril? actually, again, listening to grant shapps, i haven't used this word so much about politicians ever in 30 years, but he is actually lying. the idea that he is saying that ambulance workers did not do minimum cover in the dispute is an utter lie

and it's important that we rectify that. it is not true. we are set on making things as safe as possible. you can look at our stats to show that that has happened. but on a daily basis, this government is putting lives at risk. we have 500 people dying in a single weekjust waiting for ambulances, and that is outside other pieces. where is rishi sunak? this is either because this man is out of his depth and doesn't know what he's doing, or there is a more sinister reason about why they are doing this. more sinister reason about why they are doing this-— are doing this. grant shapps is not now here to _ are doing this. grant shapps is not now here to respond _ are doing this. grant shapps is not now here to respond to _ are doing this. grant shapps is not now here to respond to your- are doing this. grant shapps is not now here to respond to your claim | now here to respond to your claim that he is lying about what is going on, but that is a very serious charge. ourviewers on, but that is a very serious charge. our viewers this morning will have heard grant shapps being disparaging about the unions. they now hear you being disparaging about the government. surely both sides could do the public favour, cool things down and sort it out? what are you doing to make that happen?

in 30 years of negotiating, i have never seen such an abdication of responsibility in my life. rishi sunak is the ceo of uk plc. we are trying to sit down with him and doing negotiation. it“s trying to sit down with him and doing negotiation. it's difficult to doing negotiation. it's difficult to do a negotiation to solve a dispute like this if they won't even come to the table. we have written to them and asked them to say, we are willing to look at solutions in relation to this.— willing to look at solutions in relation to this. ,, �* . . ._ relation to this. steve barclay, the health secretary, _ relation to this. steve barclay, the health secretary, has _ relation to this. steve barclay, the health secretary, has said - relation to this. steve barclay, the health secretary, has said there . relation to this. steve barclay, the health secretary, has said there is a health dialogue going on. is he not telling the truth? he a health dialogue going on. is he not telling the truth?— not telling the truth? he is not tellin: not telling the truth? he is not telling the _ not telling the truth? he is not telling the truth. _ not telling the truth? he is not telling the truth. i _ not telling the truth? he is not telling the truth. i can - not telling the truth? he is not telling the truth. i can tell- not telling the truth? he is not telling the truth. i can tell you | telling the truth. i can tell you categorically that there have been no conversations on pay whatsoever with rishi sunak or stephen barclay about this dispute in any way, shape orform. they dance about this dispute in any way, shape or form. they dance around their handbag, but they will not talk about pay. to me, that is an abdication of responsibility. the dispute is about pay, so how can they say they are in talks? talks about what?—

they say they are in talks? talks about what? . . . ., about what? are there talks at other levels with other _ about what? are there talks at other levels with other ministers, - about what? are there talks at other levels with other ministers, or- about what? are there talks at other levels with other ministers, or are i levels with other ministers, or are you telling our audience this morning that on the eve of the biggest health strike in history, there is a zero conversation between anyone in your union and anyone at all speaking for the government? i can categorically tell you that. i had the general secretaries in a conversation with me last week. in fact, we were watching your programme last week thinking, how we missed an e—mail, what are they talking about? we are in no talks at any level whatsoever with the government about pay in the nhs. that is a real abdication of responsibility. why is rishi sunak not coming to the table? instead of doing press conferences about other things, come and negotiate. roll your sleeves up and negotiate on the pay in the nhs. “grate your sleeves up and negotiate on the pay in the nhs-— pay in the nhs. we will see what ha--ens pay in the nhs. we will see what happens in _ pay in the nhs. we will see what happens in the — pay in the nhs. we will see what happens in the coming _ pay in the nhs. we will see what happens in the coming days i pay in the nhs. we will see what happens in the coming days and| happens in the coming days and whether there is anything at the last minute that could stop the strikes, but it doesn't sound like it from listening to you and grant

shapps this morning. let's talk about the labour party. our viewers, who might not be familiar with union relations, your union, unite, is the biggest and has an official affiliation with the labour party. but in july, affiliation with the labour party. but injuly, you said there is no point giving money to a party that is basically sticking two fingers up to workers. it“s is basically sticking two fingers up to workers. it's almost like an abusive relationship. that is very strong language. do you still feel that way? strong language. do you still feel that wa ? ~ strong language. do you still feel thatwa? ., _ strong language. do you still feel thatwa 7l ., _ ., that way? well, obviously i would refer a that way? well, obviously i would prefer a labour _ that way? well, obviously i would prefer a labour government. i that way? well, obviously i would| prefer a labour government. they would do better on workers and we would do better on workers and we would not have some of these things going on. they would be negotiating on pay. but it is also 0k to be critical. i do think labour need to say they would make different choices. make choices on the puppeteering companies. we cannot put this country to austerity again. why is it ok to tell workers to take the pain of the crisis, but it's not

ok to say that profiteering 0k to say that profiteering companies should pay for the crisis? i want labour to say they choose that direction rather than plummeting us again into a lighter austerity. find plummeting us again into a lighter austeri . �* , ., . plummeting us again into a lighter austeri . �* . austerity. and when you hear rachel reeves or keir— austerity. and when you hear rachel reeves or keir starmer _ austerity. and when you hear rachel reeves or keir starmer in _ austerity. and when you hear rachel reeves or keir starmer in this i austerity. and when you hear rachel reeves or keir starmer in this chairl reeves or keir starmer in this chair next to me saying things like, we may not be able to do good labour things as quickly as we would like, do you interpret that as what you described as austerity lite? “melt. described as austerity lite? well, if ou described as austerity lite? well, if you take _ described as austerity lite? well, if you take energy, _ described as austerity lite? well, if you take energy, there - described as austerity lite? well, if you take energy, there is i described as austerity lite? well, if you take energy, there is £170 | if you take energy, there is £170 billion of excess profit. why can't we have 50 billion of that and effectively deal with the black hole of a0 billion. you would have 6 billion to give every nhs work a 10% rise, and you would have money left over. what is that choice so apparent? why is that not the choice that you would take, that you would rather take the choice of saying that everyone has to pull in their

belt? it is unacceptable for workers and communities in this country to pay for this crisis while there is rampant profiteering going on. you have said carefully that you would prefer a labour government. but you do sound frustrated with the labour leadership“s stance and the repeated occasions on which they say, we won't write big checks, we will be careful with the public finances. are you frustrated and do you still believe their choice to suggest they are, to stick to your face, sticking two fingers up to workers? it’s two fingers up to workers? it's important _ two fingers up to workers? it�*s important that the work of's voice is heard. i will use every breath i have to make sure we have the workers“ voice heard. labour is imparted to be the worker's voice, and i want them to use that voice in and i want them to use that voice in a much louder way that they are. i do think the word of choice is important. in 2023, the big question will be who pays. at the moment, i don't see anyone saying that it

shouldn't be workers and communities. all i am hearing is that we have to tighten our belts and people have to be careful etc. why is that allowed to happen when you have got rampant profiteering going on, which by the way is attributed to inflation? why can't the choice be that we look at those profiteering organisations and we ask them to pay their bit in the more detailed way than we have been? there is another choice for the labour party, sharon. there was another voice on the left, jeremy corbyn, the former labour leader. he still wants to stand as the labour candidate in his current seat. the party at the moment is say he shouldn't. should he be allowed to run as a labour mp?— shouldn't. should he be allowed to run as a labour mp? jeremy corbyn is a labour mp- — run as a labour mp? jeremy corbyn is a labour mp. the _ run as a labour mp? jeremy corbyn is a labour mp. the party _ run as a labour mp? jeremy corbyn is a labour mp. the party has _ run as a labour mp? jeremy corbyn is a labour mp. the party has gone i a labour mp. the party has gone through an investigation, in inverted commerce. it is clear he is a labour mp and if he stood in his constituency, he probably would win. so rather than creating barriers, why don't we try and bring people together? but whether it isjeremy corbyn or keir starmer or somebody

else, the key thing for this country is who pays for this crisis. and unless we get different choices, it will be workers who pay again. sharon graham, thank you for coming on. i hope you come back soon. now, from cardiff to liverpool, web preparations are getting going for one of the biggest stages in the world, eurovision, of course, which the uk is hosting on behalf of ukraine, which won last year. we can show you the stage, which is meant to represent a huge help to show the open arms from europe to ukraine, the country which has been hit so hard by conflict. we wanted to see how people in uk feel watching what is going on in liverpool from afar. timur miroshnychenko is the country's eurovision presenter, their equivalent of graham norton. i asked him what it meant to him in these difficult times. it’s asked him what it meant to him in these difficult times.— these difficult times. it's not about music, _ these difficult times. it's not about music, or— these difficult times. it's not about music, or not - these difficult times. it's not about music, or not only i these difficult times. it's not l about music, or not only about music, because it has a lot of

different values — equality, diversity and so on. and they are not empty words. last year's eurovision, i think, not empty words. last year's eurovision, ithink, showed not empty words. last year's eurovision, i think, showed to the whole world that it is notjust empty words. you know that eurovision was invented almost 70 years ago to unite all the nations after the second world war. last year and this year, in the darkest times not only of ukraine, but in the continent and the whole world, eurovision has proved these values last year. eurovision has proved these values last ear. �* , l, eurovision has proved these values last ear. . . , eurovision has proved these values last ear. . , ., . . last year. are you ready to have a aood last year. are you ready to have a good time? _ last year. are you ready to have a good time? eurovision _ last year. are you ready to have a good time? eurovision is - last year. are you ready to have a good time? eurovision is music, i last year. are you ready to have a i good time? eurovision is music, love and diversity- — good time? eurovision is music, love and diversity. what _ good time? eurovision is music, love and diversity. what did _ good time? eurovision is music, love and diversity. what did ukraine i and diversity. what did ukraine winnin: and diversity. what did ukraine winning last — and diversity. what did ukraine winning last year _ and diversity. what did ukraine winning last year mean - and diversity. what did ukraine winning last year mean for i and diversity. what did ukraine | winning last year mean for you? and diversity. what did ukraine l winning last year mean for you? i winning last year mean for you? i know that millions of ukrainians, not only in ukraine, but abroad,

just sat in front of the tv, maybe not in their homes, because they had to flee their homes, but they were sitting in front of tv sets just crying and crying. you have been on air while under the threat _ you have been on air while under the threat of— you have been on air while under the threat of bombardment, _ you have been on air while under the threat of bombardment, what - you have been on air while under the threat of bombardment, what was i you have been on air while under the i threat of bombardment, what was that like? trite _ threat of bombardment, what was that like? l . ., ., ., ., ., like? we had to go underground to do our 'ob. all like? we had to go underground to do ourjob- all of— like? we had to go underground to do ourjob. all of our— like? we had to go underground to do ourjob. all of our channels _ like? we had to go underground to do ourjob. all of our channels have i ourjob. all of our channels have right now additional studios. haste right now additional studios. have ou done right now additional studios. have you done other — right now additional studios. have you done other projects _ right now additional studios. have you done other projects to help people on the front line?- you done other projects to help people on the front line? sure, i have made _ people on the front line? sure, i have made may _ people on the front line? sure, i have made may be _ people on the front line? sure, i have made may be 50, - people on the front line? sure, i have made may be 50, 60, i people on the front line? sure, i | have made may be 50, 60, 1000 have made may be 50, 60,1000 kilometres by car moving some stuff for military, humanitarian aid. find for military, humanitarian aid. and have ou for military, humanitarian aid. and have you been _ for military, humanitarian aid. and have you been to the front line with that kind of help?—

that kind of help? yes, sometimes for the concerts _ that kind of help? yes, sometimes for the concerts with _ that kind of help? yes, sometimes for the concerts with military. - for the concerts with military. tomorrow i'm going again, maybe not on the front line but to the hospital near the front line with a charity concert for militaryjust hospital near the front line with a charity concert for military just to raise their morale and show them that we are together with them. what that we are together with them. what was that like? — that we are together with them. what was that like? it _ that we are together with them. what was that like? it is _ that we are together with them. what was that like? it is the _ that we are together with them. what was that like? it is the best _ that we are together with them. what was that like? it is the best events i was that like? it is the best events i think because _ was that like? it is the best events i think because our _ was that like? it is the best events i think because our military - was that like? it is the best events i think because our military have i was that like? it is the best events| i think because our military have so great morale and we are charging from them, really charging from them, because they know better what is the price of life. cheering and applause and liverpool is a very vibrant city with a proud history of music. do you think ukrainians have anything in common with scousers? i you think ukrainians have anything in common with scousers?- in common with scousers? i think es. in common with scousers? i think yes- during _ in common with scousers? i think yes- during my — in common with scousers? i think yes. during my visit _ in common with scousers? i think yes. during my visit to _ in common with scousers? i think yes. during my visit to liverpool, | yes. during my visit to liverpool, it reminds me of mariupol. of course

mariupol is a much younger city than liverpool, but at the same time it's a port city, a musical city, we have had a lot of musical festivals on the seashore, and it was very painful to see at that time mariupol destroyed by the russian army. i don't know how many times we need to rebuild this city but we definitely will, and i hope that at some time we will have an opportunity to invite all the people to mariupol, and maybe mariupol and liverpool will be like brother cities. how about coming _ will be like brother cities. how about coming back _ will be like brother cities. how about coming back and being our special eurovision correspondence? yeah, deal!—

special eurovision correspondence? yeah, deal! . ., ., yeah, deal! excellent. thank you for cominu yeah, deal! excellent. thank you for coming and — yeah, deal! excellent. thank you for coming and speaking _ yeah, deal! excellent. thank you for coming and speaking to _ yeah, deal! excellent. thank you for coming and speaking to us _ yeah, deal! excellent. thank you for coming and speaking to us and - yeah, deal! excellent. thank you for coming and speaking to us and take | coming and speaking to us and take care of yourself. and we will keep checking in as we approach the big event in may. since christmas we have heard from rishi sunak, keir starmerand nicola sunak, keir starmer and nicola sturgeon sunak, keir starmerand nicola sturgeon and now it is the liberal democrat leader, sir ed davey�*s turn. welcome to the studio. you're setting out care workers being paid £2 on top of the minimum wage. how would you pay for it? first £2 on top of the minimum wage. how would you pay for it?— would you pay for it? first of all, when i go _ would you pay for it? first of all, when i go and — would you pay for it? first of all, when i go and talk _ would you pay for it? first of all, when i go and talk to _ would you pay for it? first of all, when i go and talk to people - would you pay for it? first of all, when i go and talk to people on | would you pay for it? first of all, i when i go and talk to people on the doorstep, the biggest issue is the nhs crisis and no one thinks there is a silver bullet, a quick fix, but our policy to increase the minimum wage for carers, an extra £2 an hour, would deal with one of the big problems, namely that we don't have enough carers. if we get those care workers by paying them decently, we can ensure people can be discharged

from hospital and deal with the waiting lists, and we would pay for it through asking the gambling industry to pay more tax. we have set out that problem and the real issueis set out that problem and the real issue is the gambling industry imposes costs on the health service and we think they should pay their fair share. shin and we think they should pay their fair share. �* . , and we think they should pay their fair share. �* ., , ., ., �* , fair share. an extra sin tax, that's not very liberal, _ fair share. an extra sin tax, that's not very liberal, is _ fair share. an extra sin tax, that's not very liberal, is it? _ fair share. an extra sin tax, that's not very liberal, is it? i— fair share. an extra sin tax, that's not very liberal, is it? i think - fair share. an extra sin tax, that's not very liberal, is it? i think it. not very liberal, is it? ithink it is very liberal _ not very liberal, is it? ithink it is very liberal and _ not very liberal, is it? ithink it is very liberal and the - not very liberal, is it? ithink it is very liberal and the truth - not very liberal, is it? ithink it is very liberal and the truth is l not very liberal, is it? i think it i is very liberal and the truth is the gambling industry according to public health england are causing mental and physical health problems posing a charge to our nhs, and it is therefore quite a good idea to ask them to pay more so we can pay the carers more. this £2 an hour extra for carers would make a big difference if we can recruit and retain more carers. that's the way to solve the health crisis. this is the point we are making, you can't sort the crisis in the nhs unless you sort out the social care crisis. and how would you make it happen?

lots of care workers work for private companies, they don't always work for local councils and local councils might think, how are you going to force us to do that? would you pass a law? how would it work? it would be mandatory, it would be a legal requirement that employers of care workers would pay them at least this extra £2 an hour on top of the national minimum wage so it would be a legal requirement. but national minimum wage so it would be a legal requirement.— a legal requirement. but lots of other workers, _ a legal requirement. but lots of other workers, maybe - a legal requirement. but lots of other workers, maybe nursery l a legal requirement. but lots of - other workers, maybe nursery nurses, teaching assistants and other people in importantjobs who are paid the minimum wage, they might think, why are care workers special? why don't you just increase the minimum wage for everybody? the you just increase the minimum wage for everybody?— for everybody? the real crisis at the moment _ for everybody? the real crisis at the moment in _ for everybody? the real crisis at the moment in our— for everybody? the real crisis at the moment in our country - for everybody? the real crisis at the moment in our country is i for everybody? the real crisis at the moment in our country is in| for everybody? the real crisis at. the moment in our country is in the nhs and people are deeply worried they are not getting the operations when they want them, these huge waiting lists. but when they want them, these huge waiting liste— waiting lists. but there's a shortage _

waiting lists. but there's a shortage of— waiting lists. but there's a shortage of staff - waiting lists. but there's a shortage of staff almost . waiting lists. but there's a i shortage of staff almost right across the public sector, so why pick one industry?— pick one industry? that is right, but when we — pick one industry? that is right, but when we have _ pick one industry? that is right, but when we have an _ pick one industry? that is right, but when we have an nhs - pick one industry? that is right, but when we have an nhs on i pick one industry? that is right, j but when we have an nhs on its pick one industry? that is right, - but when we have an nhs on its knees because there aren't enough care workers, and when we can't discharge enough people quick enough, only two in five people leave hospital when they are able to leave hospital, the rest are kept in hospital because there are no care beds in care homes, no care workers to be able to look after people when they get home. so this is a policy which is targeted at dealing with notjust treating care workers properly but also the nhs. i have been a carer most of my life, looking after my mother when i was young, then my grandmother, and now my wife and son so i know how family carers are not valued enough in our country, but i also know the importance of professional carers. we need in my family and millions of families across the country, we need these

social care workers. they have never been valued enough and when i became leader of the liberal democrats, i said i wanted to be a voice of carers. this new policy is making good on that promise. indie carers. this new policy is making good on that promise.— carers. this new policy is making good on that promise. we know how much our viewers _ good on that promise. we know how much our viewers care _ good on that promise. we know how much our viewers care about - good on that promise. we know how much our viewers care about this - much our viewers care about this issue so it's interesting to hear you talk about it. let's have a look at something else that's been happening since you became leader, let's have a look at the polls and what's going on. i think we can show our viewers what's been happening. the conservatives in blue, labour in red, the snp in yellow and the orange of the liberal democrats. when you look at that, from 2020 until now, what does that tell you? what i look at is the votes in real elections and the last 18 months have been really successful for the liberal democrats. we had three major parliamentary victories... but ou know major parliamentary victories... but you know the national polls matter significantly and the numbers show

the tories have crashed down because of all the turmoil, it shows a very significant switch to the labour party that right now looks like it is sustained, and it looks like you have been bumping along at the bottom and you have missed the opportunity. bottom and you have missed the opportunity-— bottom and you have missed the ouortuni ., ., opportunity. what i care most about is the votes — opportunity. what i care most about is the votes in _ opportunity. what i care most about is the votes in the _ opportunity. what i care most about is the votes in the ballot _ opportunity. what i care most about is the votes in the ballot boxes - opportunity. what i care most about is the votes in the ballot boxes so . is the votes in the ballot boxes so it's not only the three by—election victories in tory heartlands where we are the ones that beat the conservatives, in blue wall seats where the tories are very vulnerable... where the tories are very vulnerable. . ._ where the tories are very vulnerable... ~ ., ., , ., vulnerable... what are you telling me that as _ vulnerable... what are you telling me that as a _ vulnerable. .. what are you telling me that as a national— vulnerable... what are you telling | me that as a national westminster leader you are not bothered at bumping along at nine on 10% when there's been a big meltdown in one of the parties and you have not been nationally picking up from that opportunity? and you know your party couldn't from the resulting point of view couldn't run the equivalent of by—election campaigns across the country. let by-election campaigns across the count . , ., ., by-election campaigns across the count . ., ., , country. let me give you an example where the elections _ country. let me give you an example where the elections across _ country. let me give you an example where the elections across the - country. let me give you an example where the elections across the uk, i where the elections across the uk, and we won those elections. last may there were local elections in wales, scotland and england and we had more

gains than any other political party. it was also across the country so that shows the liberal democrats making huge progress. there are may elections coming up not too far off. ed davey, thank you for coming in. it is nearly ten o'clock. as ever, it has slipped by. as liz truss returns to the scene, we started by asking why can't the conservative partyjust get we started by asking why can't the conservative party just get along? we conservative partyjust get along? we got conservative party just get along? we got on with running conservative partyjust get along? we got on with running the country, any premium in interest rates has fallen, she soon ack has set out to deal with small boats and the nhs backlog. deal with small boats and the nhs backlou. �* , . . deal with small boats and the nhs backlo-. �*, ., ., ., deal with small boats and the nhs backlou. �*, ., ., ., ., backlog. let's have a final word with our panel. _ backlog. let's have a final word with our panel. we _ backlog. let's have a final word with our panel. we heard - backlog. let's have a final word with our panel. we heard from | backlog. let's have a final word - with our panel. we heard from sharon graham, she sounds frustrated that the labour party isn't representing workers properly. she the labour party isn't representing workers properly-— workers properly. she said her members _ workers properly. she said her members would _ workers properly. she said her members would be _ workers properly. she said her members would be better- workers properly. she said her members would be better off. workers properly. she said her - members would be better off under a

labour government, and... she sounded frustrated. we - labour government, and... she sounded frustrated. we are - labour government, and... she sounded frustrated. we are the j labour government, and... she - sounded frustrated. we are the party that led the charge _ sounded frustrated. we are the party that led the charge for _ sounded frustrated. we are the party that led the charge for a _ sounded frustrated. we are the party that led the charge for a windfall- that led the charge for a windfall tax on the energy companies to help people with the cost of living crisis, including unite members. we have said we will get rid of the non—dom tax status, put that money into the biggest ever expansion of the nhs workforce and guarantee breakfast clubs for every primary school children which would also benefit her members. sharon is rightly doing herjob, standing up and fighting for her members. our job is to get a labour government, deliverfor job is to get a labour government, deliver for the job is to get a labour government, deliverfor the people job is to get a labour government, deliver for the people who use public services, the staff who work in them and taxpayers.— public services, the staff who work in them and taxpayers. should jeremy corb n be in them and taxpayers. should jeremy corbyn be able — in them and taxpayers. should jeremy corbyn be able to _ in them and taxpayers. should jeremy corbyn be able to be _ in them and taxpayers. should jeremy corbyn be able to be a _ in them and taxpayers. should jeremy corbyn be able to be a labour- in them and taxpayers. should jeremy corbyn be able to be a labour mp? i in them and taxpayers. should jeremyj corbyn be able to be a labour mp? he: hasn't apologised for what happened over anti—semitism, so no. joke over anti-semitism, so no. jake ber , over anti-semitism, so no. jake berry, why _ over anti-semitism, so no. jake berry, why can't _ over anti-semitism, so no. jake berry, why can't your— over anti—semitism, so no. jake berry, why can't your party get along with each other better? we are cominu along with each other better? we are coming together _ along with each other better? we are coming together behind _ along with each other better? we are coming together behind rishi, - along with each other better? we are coming together behind rishi, i i along with each other better? we are coming together behind rishi, i am l coming together behind rishi, i am

100% _ coming together behind rishi, i am 100% behind his pledges, but we are having _ 100% behind his pledges, but we are having an _ 100% behind his pledges, but we are having an active debate about the future _ having an active debate about the future of — having an active debate about the future of tax policy. it's interesting to hear from liz. it's the same — interesting to hear from liz. it's the same old labour party. what are you going _ the same old labour party. what are you going to do? we will abolish non-dom — you going to do? we will abolish non—dom status... but all of it is 'ust non—dom status... but all of it is just we _ non—dom status... but all of it is just we are — non—dom status... but all of it is just we are going to increase taxes and spend — just we are going to increase taxes and spend more money, and in fact we are the _ and spend more money, and in fact we are the party— and spend more money, and in fact we are the party that will grow the economv _ are the party that will grow the econom . ., ., , economy. your links with the unions are often fractious, _ economy. your links with the unions are often fractious, but _ economy. your links with the unions are often fractious, but the - are often fractious, but the government position is that unions are putting people's lives at risk and grant shapps and downing street say what sharon graham said about them lying about what's going on with ambulance provision is not true. liz kendall, can you briefly address that point? it is true. liz kendall, can you briefly address that point?— address that point? it is the government _ address that point? it is the government responsibility. | address that point? it is the i government responsibility. they address that point? it is the - government responsibility. they can sort this. the unions have said even before this started at christmas, if you meet us to discuss pay we will call this off. we have seen when proper negotiations take place about

pay, not everything else, they can stop it. pay, not everything else, they can sto it. , . ., ., stop it. one sentence, what would our stop it. one sentence, what would your advice — stop it. one sentence, what would your advice be _ stop it. one sentence, what would your advice be for _ stop it. one sentence, what would your advice be for sorting - stop it. one sentence, what would your advice be for sorting it - stop it. one sentence, what would your advice be for sorting it out? l your advice be for sorting it out? crack their heads together? i your advice be for sorting it out? crack their heads together? i would focus hard on _ crack their heads together? i would focus hard on innovation. _ crack their heads together? i would focus hard on innovation. we - crack their heads together? i would focus hard on innovation. we must| focus hard on innovation. we must sto -. we focus hard on innovation. we must stop- we are _ focus hard on innovation. we must stop. we are always _ focus hard on innovation. we must stop. we are always against - focus hard on innovation. we must stop. we are always against the i stop. we are always against the clock. a huge thank you to our panel. as we pondered why the tories are sometimes find it hard to get along this morning, jake berry said there is a feeling in the area he represents that whoever is in charge doesn't understand people's problems. more than a decade in power has given the tories plenty of times for grudges to build up, that is for sure, but maybe a pair of former prime minister is courting attention doesn't help the new prime minister either. if you think liz truss should have kept her council or you want more of that red meat, her arrival back on the scene is sure to spark even more argument about what the conservative party is really four. catch up on anything

you missed this morning on iplayer, and if you are a fan i hope you enjoy the happy valley finale tonight. goodbye.

this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe. our top stories... the former president of pakistan, general pervez musharraf, has died at the age of 79. shot out of the sky — the us continues to search and recover the wreckage of a chinese balloon — suspected of spying — which was brought down by an american fighterjet. when he successfully took it down and i want to compliment the aviators who did it. china condemns the move — accusing the us of an over—reaction — insisting the balloon was for meteorological research. the former uk prime minister, liz truss, blames what she's calls a "powerful economic establishment" — for her downfall.