this is bbc news, the headlines: the bbc has heard from two leaders on opposing sides of the war in ukraine. president zelensky warned neighbouring belarus against helping russia launch a new offensive, but the belarussian leader said he would be prepared to allow his nation to be used for a new attack. staff from the us center for disease control are being deployed to ohio to provide support to the town of east palestine, where a train derailment caused a release of toxic chemicals. the white house says the company who own the cargo will be held to account. the british prime minister is in belfast amid speculation that a deal will be agreed on post—brexit trade rules. rishi sunak will meet political

parties to discuss proposals intended to make it easier for businesses in northern ireland to trade with great britain. now on bbc news, hardtalk with stephen sackur. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. a select few people amongst us have personal stories which stir compassion, admiration and solidarity, and one of them is my guest today — waris dirie, the somali—born model, writer and activist. she was raised in poverty, the daughter of a nomadic herdsman. she became the muse of fashion houses in new york and paris, but she chose campaigning over the catwalk, speaking out against female genital mutilation, which she

experienced and is now determined to eliminate. it is an issue about patriarchy and power, so is this a fight she can win? waris dirie, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. yours has been a life of extraordinary change and extraordinary contrasts. i just wonder, now you look back on your childhood, does it seem a very great distance away or does it still feel close and intimate?

i would say far away. somehow, it seems so far, my life. if i look back or think back, ifeel like i've been here quite a while in this planet, really. it's maybe because i've done so much, so fast, that i can't remember everything i have done in my life. when it comes to memories, do you really have sharp, focused memories about what it was like being a little girl, being raised in central somalia? like yesterday. everything is clear. and i can touch it, almost. really? really. and do you remember how you felt as a girl? i mean, let's face it, you were living in a patriarchal society where girls had a certain position, which, frankly, was far below that of the boys, the males, and you experienced things which no boy would ever experience, which involved trauma, pain and suffering.

do you remember your feelings as a little girl about all of that? i remember the time it was happening, the moment this thing was going on, this pain, when it comes to...particularly fgm. i remember this moment. five years old, you were? something like that. we have no ages... right. yeah. so... around five years? i would say this because i remember very clear. and...| wouldn't call it traumatised. i don't know, maybe i'm using the wrong word, but i would... i would call it... i would call it confusion. i guess partly the confusion was because it was something that happened to you in such a family, intimate way. you know, your mother, of course, was, in a sense,

the vehicle through which it happened. she took you to the old lady who performed the terrible, sort of intrusive surgery upon you. your mother literally held you and put a twig in your teeth so that you could bite down when the pain started. but really, for her, she was doing... in her mind, in her... ..what little education she could understand, why this exists and why must every woman, every girl, have to go through — in her mind, she was doing right. she was doing honourable job for me, which is, you know... so i have no regret against my mother. i have no hate or... i feel... if i feel anything,

ifeel sad for her, that she didn't know what. .. because she did it too, it happened to her, and so on and so on. you know, it's thousands of years old and she had no idea what was she doing wrong because she grow up in this, it happened to her, her mother did it, her great—great and so on. so for her, it was no different, what she was doing. is your mother still alive? yes. i imagine over the years... although you've lived away from somalia for a very long time, over the years, you must have discussed what happened with her. and has she...? it was my first mission when i got there. first time i went back to somalia, i asked, i sat her down. isaid, "no, no, no, mama, we got to have a talk here." and she... first, she was defensive, because i think she understood, because years later... all these years, she heard me. i was in england. she knew somehow what i was doing.

itold her, one day, mama — like �*90s — "mama, if you don't save my brother's children, anyone who you know in this...neighbours, if you don't speak up against this, mama, i'm going to come for you." and she goes, "you'd come for me?" i say, "yes, i work with the police now, mama, in england. i'm the police." she said, "yeah, 0k." but...i explained... has she in any way changed her mind? of course she did. yeah? she had no... she had no choice. and in the end, she gave up, opened her hand and said, "forgive me, i don't know, i didn't know." what happened to you was in no way unusual. indeed, it was the norm and it remains the norm in somalia. the vast majority, maybe you would say pretty much all... all. ..somali girls experience one form or another of female genital mutilation. absolutely the truth.

so i'm just wondering, what turned you, that child who went through this normalised experience in somalia, into a young woman who was determined to confront it and try to eliminate it? two reasons. one. . . it was unjustifiable. it was unimaginable. i don't know who and what and why would you do such a thing. how did it exist? itjust didn't make no sense to me — this business, torture, what women have to go through — and i just thought... while i was lying there — this is the truth — i say to myself, "god, give me the strength to stay alive." you mean even as that little girl? as i was lying there in the blood, in my own blood.

and i said, "i promise, if i stay alive, i will come for you one day. i will find you." and i kept that promise. interestingly, you only really were able to open up about what had happened to you, confront the experience and then become active in trying to combat it after you'd left somalia. i do want to talk a little bit about how you left somalia, because we began the conversation talking about the reality of a patriarchal society. is it the truth that if you had stayed in somalia as an adolescent, a girl entering teen age, your father would essentially have sold you off into a marriage with a much older man? yes, which is another normal behaviour, a... she laughs ..normal thing to do. again... but what's not normal... you know what is not normal is to be a woman in such a place as in this world. well, actually, it's not easy

anywhere in the planet to be a woman, i'll tell you, stephen. mm—hm. so ijust... i couldn't understand. i mean, ifelt as i saw a little child, maybe four, three... i remember trying to walk, stand up, and walking and falling down. i truly... i remember this. and i remember violence against my mother. and i couldn't... i don't know why... i couldn't understand. i remember crying and crying and crying and crying, trying to reach my mama, and... so what you did, which most young girls in somalia don't do, is you determined to run away, to escape? yes, i don't... i don't... i don't understand this. you know, it became, "man is this and woman is this, girls are this.

they can't do this. they can't talk like this. you can't dress like this. you can't do anything, this. you are girl." and every question i ask, "but i still can do this, even if i'm a girl," was, "no, no, no, no, no, no. don't even think about it. go away, go away." and i just want an explanation, what is going on here? like, whatam i? you know, itjust was... it just absolutely became determination, every power i had, to show i can do my life, i can live without you telling me what to do and what to be. and when you ran, did your father try to track you down? yes. he chased me for quite... ..three days in the desert, following my footstep. but he couldn't get it. he couldn't catch me. he... he gave up and went back. you... you definitely outfoxed him. 0h, idid. what got you to london was a family connection... yes.

..and you had an uncle who was actually ambassador for somalia in london. harley street, right here. yeah. and he offered you a job, to go with him to london as a sort of maid/cleaner. you took it. and as a teenager in london, you were able, then, to stay. even when he returned, you did menialjobs. i think you worked in fast food and in cleaning... yeah, all the... a few fast—food places. couldn't speak the language, couldn't read or write, had no—one i could run to stay with... but at the same time, i felt the most freedom ever. i felt so free. ifelt i could do and be anything. i wasn't worried at all. and almost always, that feeling of "i can do anything" is a little bit of a cliche and doesn't come true. but for you, the extraordinary happened. you think it's cliche, but it's... it's really the truth. anything you want to do, you really... mean that much to you. i don't think it takes

that much of an effort, because it's. .. but it does take something called luck. and you had luck. i had — well, then, you can call me, all my life, a luck, which i tell people, "my middle name is luck." and i do not know how i sometimes — i was walking down this morning in the street, and i know every corner of the streets. and i'm, you know, thinking back and i'm just smiling, remembering those days. it's interesting because london, in a sense, made you, certainly made you as one of the world's most famous, most wanted models. you got spotted by a photographer. again, luck. he handed pictures to a modelling agency, who loved your look. and before you knew it, while i think you were still in your late—teen age, you were being... i was just a little girl, young girl, yeah. yeah, you were being taken to paris, to new york. before long, you were the face of chanel, you were modelling on the catwalks.

and i'm also mindful that you were still this young girl who had internalised so much trauma in somalia. how did the two things fit together? see, that's the thing. i can sit here and really say i am gratefulfor where i was born, and how my life was. and i tell you... ..the respect, the knowledge, the passion i have for life, i don't think i would have that if i was born, let's say, right here in london. and there is something that no matter what, you know, what you go through in life, you learn something each — each step, you learn something new in life. and some you appreciate, and some you move on from it. and i love life. and i'm determined to do whatever i wanted to do without a man in my life.

that speaks to your determination, but i also want to dig away at something you said in an interview once, which seemed to me very candid and troubling. you said, "actually, somewhere deep within me, i felt half—empty, even during these years of great success." yes, because... well, a few things. one, i'm not at home. i — i wished to be home, i longed for home. and i couldn't get to my home. i didn't have my family. the day i walked away from my family's the last time i saw my mother or my family. and that does something to you as a child, and you ended up in a foreign country where you have no idea what is what. and there's really not many people, or anyone is guiding you to teach you, or to show you, to explain or... so, everything i have to learn, very hard. and it wasn't easy, stephen, i tell you, it was... it's just, get it done.

get it done, it only gets better. so, er... but also, you're in a world — that is the world of modelling, and you even were a bond girl in one of the bond movies in 1987, alongside timothy dalton. stephen, it was the living daylights, i remember that. the living daylights. .. yes. and that's such an unreal world, and it's a world of glamour — some would say, a world of superficiality, where you getjudged on your look... both, both. and more, and more! and you project an image which may not be your true self at all. yes. is that one of the reasons why, having experienced all of that, you felt this need to return to what had happened to you, and to become an activist and a campaigner against female genital mutilation? is that one of the drivers? oh, no, no, no, no, no. you felt unhappy in...no? no, no, baby, no, no. so, tell me. it was something i had to do in the name of women.

whether it's the one here or one there, or one — ijust, i had to do something. i had to do something, notjust... fgm is just one little part. you know, not only you got the fgm, but there's no education in life for you as a girl. and so, there was a lot of things that have to come together. and this is exactly what i do now, or i tried to do — first was to give a face to fgm, which everyone was like, "what's she say? what's she talking about? mm—hm, mm—hm, yeah, yeah, good luck, thank you. yep." and this was another shock, i thought the world was running with me and said, "ok, thank you, girl, you tell us something, but now we have to do something. we have to change the laws everywhere," even there's laws they still practise and... you've had 25 years... 25 years! ..of campaigning. i cannot believe

i'm sitting here again. anyway! and i'm just wondering whether, after 25 years, you're satisfied with the success you've had? no. because the truth is, look at the latest un figures from last year — they reckon between 150—200 million women and girls in the world today have experienced female genital mutilation. it is still happening to the tune of 90% of all females in countries like somalia, countries like sierra leone. and that's the reality today, 25 years after you set out to eliminate it. so, when i started, i said, "i will get it done. i will get it done." call me what you want, but i thought, "i really can do this. i'm going to do it, i'm going to put all i am... i'm going tojust do it." and, ok, when i started, 28 countries were practising. four countries only had a law. and today, only four countries

have no law. the rest is — have their own law. yes, there are four key countries which have yet to criminalise fgm. criminalise — which is somalia, you know, is one of them. yeah, and sierra leone's another, and i know you've done a lot of work in both countries. yes, i have. let's talk about sierra leone, because it's an interesting case study. there, there is no doubt that the prevalence of fgm is still tied to this culture — they call it the bondo society, the secret associations of women who go through fgm as part of an initiation into a society which gives them status, gives them a certain level of freedom as women within their society if they go through with it. now, tackling that, undermining that culture is difficult. do you have ways that you believe work to change a culture, change a tradition? if you start to think

about how, the picture of who you can convince, who will follow, who will do it, who will change the law, the politician — you really be forever running circles. so, the best thing for me to do was... i do it, i do it. but how — is it by reaching out to kids? isitby...? no, i have schools. i have four schools now. four years ago, i started the first one. i have more than 4,000 girls who are educated in the schools, who are going to school. also, the parents — i have to pay the parents. so, the contract is, you must not marry this little girl, and you cannot mutilate her. i will educate her. that is yourjob, you don't touch her. and also, after school, the children leave school. the parents come and learn skills

and things they want to do, because they have to make money too. they have to live on. a unicef report from last year says that the highest levels of support amongst women for fgm come from countries like sierra leone, guinea, gambia, somalia. so, in those countries, more than half of women... i have no support from anyone else but the people... ..the public whojust support me to save girls — every day, i save a girl from fgm — every day. she's saved, and she gets her education. and that is only pure, beautiful people in the world who just donate whatever they can. and i don't know anything about what unicef and un do, i really don't. i suppose what they're trying to say with their data analysis is that, unfortunately, for your campaign, there are significant numbers of women — in some societies, even half of women and more —

who still appear to be supportive of continuation of fgm. yes. that's a huge hurdle to overcome. it is...no, it's not. no, baby, ican�*t, no, no, no, no. because it's, i mean... from 28 countries to four countries, ok, it took a little while. and, although even those countries have the law against this and criminalise — but they do not really criminalise women. here, england, london, there was a law against fgm since 1985. and the first—ever person prosecuted was, what, a few years ago, two years? so, law is a law, it's another thing. but practise and following the law and respecting the law is another. there is an argument — and maybe this is relevant to your situation because you were born in somalia, but as we've discussed, you've lived your adult life in the western world and you've

been in a pretty rarefied world of modelling and catwalks, and movie—making, and then writing books and making documentaries — you know, you've moved a long way, literally and metaphorically, from the nomadic existence in somalia. and some people say, and i'm not going to quote westerners at you, but i'm going to quote one african woman at you. she's a doctor in kenya, dr tatu kamau — and she actually protested about kenya criminalising fgm on the basis, to quote her, "that criminalisation infringes on a woman's right to participate in the traditional cultural life of their choice in their country." in other words, she was saying banning fgm is an example of cultural imperialism. what's your response to that? she needs to dig a hole and disappear. i don't know. i don't know what she's talking about, baby, seriously. but that — you cannot argue with this kind of mind and...logic.

i could understand if you — if you have a poisoned arm or something, you cut... but i don't know what damage...what do they do? what are they trying to achieve? what, do you think, they hold their child down and see what they've done, and then, expect what? what could be great...? what good things can come out of that? so, i don't think about this, i don't talk about it — what, why, who, who says...? it's not relevant at all. what's relevant is what we're doing, and what we have to do. and all the harms against any girl orany woman, or any child should be immediately recognised and stopped right there. i am fascinated to see that, amid all of this campaigning and activism that you're committed to, in the last month, you have gone back to the catwalk. you were involved in paris fashion week,

you were back doing the modelling. so, i'm just wondering right now, what matters most to you? continue what i've been doing. continue living life on the right side. and your biggest fight of all, you did say once, "i am determined to see fgm completely eliminated in my lifetime." i'm not leaving this planet without this gone. waris dirie, thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. thank you for having me. hello there.

the winds are really picking up overnight. we're expecting some travel disruption and perhaps some damage across northern parts of the uk, where the winds will be strongest — particularly over scotland, over the pennines and in the north—east of england, with the peak of the wind strength expected during friday morning. it's all due to this deepening area of low pressure currently heading to the north of scotland. that is storm otto, that will sweep its way down into scandinavia. it's the first named storm of the season, although it was actually named by the danish met service. it'll be a very windy start to friday morning, a very mild start as well. the rain in the south being replaced by showers, but it's the strength of the wind that's the story. could be touching 80 mph in the northern isles for a while, and generally across scotland, gusts of 60 or 70 mph. similar strength over the pennines and some very gusty winds to the east of the pennines as well. now, the winds do gradually ease down through the day and we'll see this band of thicker cloud with some patchy rain heading down into southern parts of england and wales. other areas should see it

brightening up and some sunshine coming through. the showers becoming fewer in scotland as the winds continue to ease during the afternoon. a mild day — temperatures 9 celsius in scotland, highs of 14 or 15 in east anglia and the south—east. northern ireland, though, will turn more cloudy in the afternoon, some rain coming in here as well, and this other area of low pressure comes in overnight. not particularly windy, but it will bring some wet weather for northern areas for a while, maybe some snow over the scottish mountains. most of that wet weather is out into continental europe by saturday morning, leaving behind this band of thicker cloud and patchy rain, southern scotland heading into the central belt. sunshine to the north of that and elsewhere in the uk, we'll see some sunshine at times, there will be some cloud as well. breezy perhaps in southern areas of england. otherwise, the winds are much lighter on saturday and it's another mild day. for the second half of the weekend, we've got another area of low pressure approaching from the atlantic — that will strengthen the winds during sunday and bring some wetter weather for a while in northern ireland, but more particularly across scotland.

and we'll see some patchy rain for northern england as well. further south, it may well be drier, a little bit brighter, perhaps some sunshine in southern parts of england. the winds, though, do pick up, always the strongest in the far north—west of the uk. second half the weekend doesn't look quite so mild, but we've still got temperatures of 10—12 celsius.

this is bbc news. i'm victoria valentine with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. ahead of an anticipated spring offensive, ukraine's president zelensky warns belarus against helping russia launch a new attack. it will be big mistake, for him and for belarussia, it will be a historical mistake. the british prime minister is in northern ireland for talks about a post—brexit trade deal, prompting hopes of a reformed power—sharing assembly. the spanish parliament introduces new laws approving teen abortion, transgender protections, and paid menstrual leave. the family of the hollywood actor bruce willis say the die hard and pulp fiction star is now suffering from a type of dementia.