away from the forcibly get people away from the area. this may happen again in the future, so that the police will have to be developing their strategies if we have this mass explosion in people who earn a living out of posting stuff on social media platforms, deciding to descend on a crime scene, for example, and that will take up resources. if the police suddenly find themselves in a situation, at some point in the future, not only having to deal with perhaps a complicated crime scene, or a complicated series of complicated crime scenes, imagine how that would be multiplied in terms of challenges if they find they have considerable numbers of people attending these scenes or the area of the scenes, who simply shouldn't be there. it will take up a lot of resources, i think

lancashire police... i don't criticise on this point, because i don't blame them for not being able to see around the corner, with regards to the numbers of people who took it upon themselves to go to st michael's on wyre. but the police will really have two develops strategies, think about this, think of hypothetical scenarios with multiple crime scenes and many people turning up. because, with the current explosion of interest, into crime, whether that be books, films, documentaries, podcasts and the like, this might not be going away. all injanuary 28, i understand lancashire constabulary were using drones, helicopters. they also brought and police dogs. again, to remind people, these ski search area was around the river. what sort of

challenges with the police dogs have and to what extent would you be useful in finding a missing person? it varies from case to case, of course. sometimes a dog who is very useful for picking course. sometimes a dog who is very usefulfor picking up course. sometimes a dog who is very useful for picking up a scent, but descent will only last for a particular amount of time. they're also very good at sniffing out items, evidence. all your viewers probably watch television programmes and see how brilliant dogs can be at sniffing out drugs and guns and currency. of course other dogs are specifically trained as cadaver dogs and they can sniff out bodies. in syria and turkey recently with the earthquakes we know that british fire service dogs were sent out there and they identify trapped people who are alive. so dogs are a valuable asset across the wide range of policing challenges. drones are a much more modern kind of innovation,

they can get into areas where people may not be able to go quite so easily. helicopters of course have been around for decades now and they are a vital everyday part of the policing tool box. in are a vital everyday part of the policing tool box.— are a vital everyday part of the policing tool box. in terms of tech and more than _ policing tool box. in terms of tech and more than investigations, - policing tool box. in terms of tech | and more than investigations, just how he has the smoothed things on the four police? mobile phones, for example. we know how useful cctv footage is, and some of that was used as part of this ongoing search for nicola. but technology and police investigations? we for nicola. but technology and police investigations?- for nicola. but technology and police investigations? we live in at the ace of police investigations? we live in at the age of the _ police investigations? we live in at the age of the digital _ police investigations? we live in at the age of the digital detective - police investigations? we live in ati the age of the digital detective and the age of the digital detective and the desktop detective. they can do, quite simply, brilliant, brilliant work. with data are being pumped out by virtually all our devices continually, it really has become a vital tool in solving so many

crimes. most major inquiries these days, i'm talking more specifically about crime, but sometimes these can also apply to missing persons inquiry, they are either solved or resolved through forensic science in all its guises. i'm so old that i'm from the era that we found a fingerprint we would be very excited. but with the onset of dna and how forensic science gallops on almost every day there are new developments, so detectives can gather evidence that couldn't have been dreamt of many years ago. so, forensic science, cctv, and of course we have heard a lot from the police about the hundreds of hours of work that were put into the nicola bulley case into examining cctv. people often forget that a negative sighting on a cctv camera

can be very important because you can be very important because you can prove that a person did not go down a particular route, and therefore you can cast your eyes and deploy your resources in a different area. so, mobile phones, cctv and forensics are really at the major keys to solving so many crimes and investigations by the police these days. investigations by the police these da s. ., ., _ investigations by the police these da s. ., ., ., ~ investigations by the police these da s. ., ., ., days. for now, we will say thank you very much. — days. for now, we will say thank you very much, peter. _ days. for now, we will say thank you very much, peter. we _ days. for now, we will say thank you very much, peter. we will _ days. for now, we will say thank you very much, peter. we will speak- days. for now, we will say thank you | very much, peter. we will speak now to danny shaw, a crime, justice and policing commentator. this has become a highly complicated investigation. what are your thoughts on this?— investigation. what are your thoughts on this? this is clearly a very significant — thoughts on this? this is clearly a very significant development - thoughts on this? this is clearly a very significant development in i thoughts on this? this is clearly a i very significant development in this case _ very significant development in this case the _ very significant development in this case. the most important thing, i suripose. — case. the most important thing, i suppose, for the police at the

moment— suppose, for the police at the moment is to find out the identity of the _ moment is to find out the identity of the person whose body has been found _ of the person whose body has been found in _ of the person whose body has been found in the water. that is clearly of the _ found in the water. that is clearly of the crucial point. that can be done _ of the crucial point. that can be done through several ways. it can be done _ done through several ways. it can be done through several ways. it can be done through sort of recognising the face of— done through sort of recognising the face of someone, it can be done through— face of someone, it can be done through items of identification that might— through items of identification that might be _ through items of identification that might be on the person, or it could be might be on the person, or it could he done _ might be on the person, or it could be done through clothing. if that is not possible, then dental records, dna analysis and fingerprints are possible — dna analysis and fingerprints are possible alternatives. that is the most _ possible alternatives. that is the most crucial thing in this case, because — most crucial thing in this case, because if— most crucial thing in this case, because if that body is not nicola builey's — because if that body is not nicola bulley's body, then clearly another whole _ bulley's body, then clearly another whole inquiry separate to this needs to take _ whole inquiry separate to this needs to take place. then after that there are other_ to take place. then after that there are other steps that need to be gone through— are other steps that need to be gone through in_ are other steps that need to be gone through in terms of assessing the time which the body entered the

water, _ time which the body entered the water, did it enterthe time which the body entered the water, did it enter the water at that spot. _ water, did it enter the water at that spot, someone else? these are all the _ that spot, someone else? these are all the sort _ that spot, someone else? these are all the sort of thing is that an inquiry— all the sort of thing is that an inquiry has to go through, and then obviously— inquiry has to go through, and then obviously establishing the cause of death— obviously establishing the cause of death which will take place in an postmortem examination. a body being immersed _ postmortem examination. a body being immersed in_ postmortem examination. a body being immersed in water does present some challenges, _ immersed in water does present some challenges, particularly if it has been _ challenges, particularly if it has been in — challenges, particularly if it has been in the water for some time, although— been in the water for some time, although the water temperature can affect _ although the water temperature can affect the _ although the water temperature can affect the rate of decomposition. but these are all things that experience anchors are very used to, but may— experience anchors are very used to, but may take — experience anchors are very used to, but may take some time to go answer is people _ but may take some time to go answer is people want. in but may take some time to go answer is peeple want-— is people want. in your experience with investigations _ is people want. in your experience with investigations and _ is people want. in your experience with investigations and stories - is people want. in your experience with investigations and stories of i with investigations and stories of missing people, when it comes to an area that is dealing with a water body, one of the first questions that are asked? —— what are the first questions.

that are asked? -- what are the first questions.— that are asked? -- what are the first questions. the first question has to be to _ first questions. the first question has to be to establish _ first questions. the first question has to be to establish the - first questions. the first question | has to be to establish the identity of the _ has to be to establish the identity of the person who has gone into the water, _ of the person who has gone into the water, and — of the person who has gone into the water, and sometimes that can take quite _ water, and sometimes that can take quite a _ water, and sometimes that can take quite a long — water, and sometimes that can take quite a long time, sometimes it can be done _ quite a long time, sometimes it can be done quite quickly. in this case, obviously. — be done quite quickly. in this case, obviously, that is strong, i suppose. _ obviously, that is strong, i suppose, assumption at the moment that the _ suppose, assumption at the moment that the body is of nicola bulley, but that — that the body is of nicola bulley, but that has not been confirmed. no one has— but that has not been confirmed. no one has said — but that has not been confirmed. no one has said that, and indeed the police _ one has said that, and indeed the police has — one has said that, and indeed the police has not confirmed whether the body is _ police has not confirmed whether the body is a _ police has not confirmed whether the body is a male or a female at the moment — body is a male or a female at the moment. but that is clearly the first step — moment. but that is clearly the first step that has to be gone through. _ first step that has to be gone through, and there are a number of different— through, and there are a number of different ways to establish the identity— different ways to establish the identity of that person before moving — identity of that person before moving onto the other points that have to _ moving onto the other points that have to be — moving onto the other points that have to be established. i think it is very— have to be established. i think it is very important to say the scene is very important to say the scene is very— is very important to say the scene is very important, the scene in the water— is very important, the scene in the water and — is very important, the scene in the water and around where the body was found _ water and around where the body was found that _ water and around where the body was found. that has to be preserved. there _ found. that has to be preserved. there will— found. that has to be preserved. there will have been lots of people walking _ there will have been lots of people walking along the path over the last

few weeks, dog walkers and other people. _ few weeks, dog walkers and other people, tiktok detectives and all the rest — people, tiktok detectives and all the rest of it. but the police will be anxious— the rest of it. but the police will be anxious to preserve the area around — be anxious to preserve the area around where the body was found and look underneath and around the water to see _ look underneath and around the water to see exactly what was around there. — to see exactly what was around there. and _ to see exactly what was around there, and whether the body had actually — there, and whether the body had actually got lodged under their displays from somewhere else. that is a really _ displays from somewhere else. that is a really important to establish if the _ is a really important to establish if the body entered the water at that point or somewhere else. these are all— that point or somewhere else. these are all forensic, analytical steps that will— are all forensic, analytical steps that will take some time, particularly in a case which is potentially of such high profile as this case — potentially of such high profile as this case. if it turns out to be nicola's— this case. if it turns out to be nicola's body, those are answers that will— nicola's body, those are answers that will be very keenly sought by her loved — that will be very keenly sought by her loved ones and the public as well _ her loved ones and the public as well. �* ., . her loved ones and the public as well. ~ . , ., , well. again, 'ust to say the body has not well. again, just to say the body has not been — well. again, just to say the body has not been identified - well. again, just to say the body has not been identified as - well. again, just to say the body has not been identified as that l well. again, just to say the body| has not been identified as that of 45—year—old nicola bulley. when we

spoke to peter a short while ago, he said that rivers are notorious for taking their time said that rivers are notorious for taking theirtime in said that rivers are notorious for taking their time in giving up their secrets. the search for nicola has been going on for three weeks now. they have searched this particular part of the river. the river wye is a short river. are you surprised that they would have searched the spot and nothing would have come up or been discovered at the time of the initial search? i or been discovered at the time of the initial search?— the initial search? i believe the river from _ the initial search? i believe the river from st _ the initial search? i believe the river from st michael's - the initial search? i believe the river from st michael's to - the initial search? i believe the | river from st michael's to where the initial search? i believe the i river from st michael's to where it enters _ river from st michael's to where it enters the — river from st michael's to where it enters the irish sea, i think is ten or so— enters the irish sea, i think is ten or so miles — enters the irish sea, i think is ten or so miles. the spot where the body has been _ or so miles. the spot where the body has been found, from st michael's, which _ has been found, from st michael's, which is _ has been found, from st michael's, which is where nicola bulley was last seen— which is where nicola bulley was last seen and her phone was found, is about— last seen and her phone was found, is about a _ last seen and her phone was found, is about a mile or so. we have been told there _ is about a mile or so. we have been told there have been extensive searches — told there have been extensive searches by police diving units.

also, _ searches by police diving units. also, — searches by police diving units. also, if— searches by police diving units. also, if it— searches by police diving units. also, if it turns out that the body _ also, if it turns out that the body is — also, if it turns out that the body is that— also, if it turns out that the body is that of nicola bulley, i think— body is that of nicola bulley, i think that will raise questions about— think that will raise questions about the thoroughness of the police search _ about the thoroughness of the police search as _ about the thoroughness of the police search. as peter said, and he is absolutely— search. as peter said, and he is absolutely right, it is not unusual for someone who goes into the water, into a _ for someone who goes into the water, into a river, _ for someone who goes into the water, into a river, stream, orthe sea, for the — into a river, stream, orthe sea, for the body— into a river, stream, orthe sea, for the body to emerge some weeks, sometimes _ for the body to emerge some weeks, sometimes months later, at a point some _ sometimes months later, at a point some distance away. that is not unusual— some distance away. that is not unusual at — some distance away. that is not unusual at all. but i think if it turns— unusual at all. but i think if it turns out— unusual at all. but i think if it turns out that the body is that of nicola, _ turns out that the body is that of nicola, and it is found here some mile _ nicola, and it is found here some mile or— nicola, and it is found here some mile or so— nicola, and it is found here some mile or so away from where she went missing, _ mile or so away from where she went missing, i_ mile or so away from where she went missing, i think that will raise questions _ missing, i think that will raise questions about the searching that took place. not necessarily to

criticise — took place. not necessarily to criticise that, but certainly i think— criticise that, but certainly i think some questions will be asked. we have _ think some questions will be asked. we have seen before in previous high—profile investigations that some _ high—profile investigations that some initial searches have been done that have _ some initial searches have been done that have not been adequate and bodies _ that have not been adequate and bodies have subsequently been found in places— bodies have subsequently been found in places where they should have been _ in places where they should have been found. but we are getting into the realms — been found. but we are getting into the realms of speculation here. we want to— the realms of speculation here. we want to be — the realms of speculation here. we want to be very, very careful not to speculate _ want to be very, very careful not to speculate at — want to be very, very careful not to speculate at this stage. but that is why it _ speculate at this stage. but that is why it is _ speculate at this stage. but that is why it is critical as well that the police _ why it is critical as well that the police tried to establish, and the experts — police tried to establish, and the experts establish how long the body has been _ experts establish how long the body has been in the water. that is absolutely critical. and if they possibly— absolutely critical. and if they possibly can, establish where the body _ possibly can, establish where the body entered the water. that will also be _ body entered the water. that will also be critical evidence in this case: — also be critical evidence in this case, as— also be critical evidence in this case, as in— also be critical evidence in this case, as in any missing person case or any— case, as in any missing person case or any case — case, as in any missing person case or any case where somebody is found in the _ or any case where somebody is found in the water~ — or any case where somebody is found in the water. as well as establishing the cause of death. i think establishing the cause of death. think for establishing the cause of death. i think for viewers it mightjust be worth reminding them of the public statement that was released by

lancashire police. they said that this morning, you may be aware of police activity around the river near to st michael's. "we want to provide you with an update on the activity. we recall today at 11:36am to reports of a body in the river wyre close to rawcliffe road. an underwater search team and specialist officers have subsequently attended the scene, entered the water and have sadly recovered a body. no formal identification yet has been carried out, so we are unable to say whether this is nicola bulley at this time. procedures to identify the body are ongoing. we are currently treating the death as unexplained. nicola's family had been informed of developments and our thoughts are with them at this most difficult of times. we ask that their privacy is

respected." let's go back to danny shaw. lancashire police have been under huge pressure notjust at the time and how the search for nicola has progress, but also the messaging around women. you have been a journalist for some time, danny. how journalist forsome time, danny. how significant journalist for some time, danny. how significant is this and how has this changed over time when we are dealing with missing women? this has been a case which _ dealing with missing women? this has been a case which has _ dealing with missing women? this has been a case which has placed - been a case which has placed unprecedented strain on lancashire police _ unprecedented strain on lancashire police i_ unprecedented strain on lancashire police. i don't think they ever dealt — police. idon't think they ever dealt with— police. i don't think they ever dealt with a case like this, which has attracted so much attention not 'ust has attracted so much attention not just in_ has attracted so much attention not just in the _ has attracted so much attention not just in the uk but also abroad. that brings— just in the uk but also abroad. that brings huqe — just in the uk but also abroad. that brings huge challenges for the police, — brings huge challenges for the police, because they become inundated with inquiries, with pieces— inundated with inquiries, with pieces of— inundated with inquiries, with pieces of information, some of which are completely irrelevant and little

lots of _ are completely irrelevant and little lots of false trails and red herrings. i think what has made it critically— herrings. i think what has made it critically difficult at this time is people — critically difficult at this time is people coming up to the scene, doing their own _ people coming up to the scene, doing their own inquiries in a rather ghoulish— their own inquiries in a rather ghoulish fashion, and then causing a realness— ghoulish fashion, and then causing a realness and surround st michael's, the local— realness and surround st michael's, the local village to such an extent that the _ the local village to such an extent that the police had to take some action _ that the police had to take some action. they have made some arrests and have _ action. they have made some arrests and have also had to use some civil power— and have also had to use some civil power to— and have also had to use some civil power to and ensure people didn't carry— power to and ensure people didn't carry on— power to and ensure people didn't carry on with that. so, unprecedented challenges for police. however— unprecedented challenges for police. however difficult that is to deal with. _ however difficult that is to deal with. i— however difficult that is to deal with, i think the communications has been lacking in terms of the consistency of the messaging by lancashire police, not perhaps understanding that they need to keep putting _ understanding that they need to keep putting information out there regularly every single day to keep the media busy, to fill a vacuum

that isn't— the media busy, to fill a vacuum that isn't filled by speculation and gossip and innuendo and nonsense. the“, _ gossip and innuendo and nonsense. then, obviously, the terribly cack—handed then, obviously, the terribly cack— handed way then, obviously, the terribly cack—handed way in which the information concerning nicola's problems with the menopause and her alcohol— problems with the menopause and her alcohol problems were released to the media. we don't exactly knew the redesigning behind why that information was released, so i don't think— information was released, so i don't think we _ information was released, so i don't think we can — information was released, so i don't think we can form a judgment yet as to whether— think we can form a judgment yet as to whether they were correct to release — to whether they were correct to release that information or not. but what we _ release that information or not. but what we can — release that information or not. but what we can say is, the way that information— what we can say is, the way that information came out was very poor. there _ information came out was very poor. there was— information came out was very poor. there was a — information came out was very poor. there was a press conference, it didn't, _ there was a press conference, it didn't, then, then it came up later. then— didn't, then, then it came up later. thenat— didn't, then, then it came up later. thenatthe— didn't, then, then it came up later. then at the firm had to issue a statement _ then at the firm had to issue a statement the following day. it all seemed _ statement the following day. it all seemed rather ill—prepared and ill judqed _ seemed rather ill—prepared and ill judged. the other point was whether that information was relevant, why wasn't _ that information was relevant, why wasn't the — that information was relevant, why wasn't the information set out early on in _ wasn't the information set out early on in the _ wasn't the information set out early on in the investigation? that she

was a _ on in the investigation? that she was a high — on in the investigation? that she was a high risk missing person because — was a high risk missing person because of health issues? it is very common— because of health issues? it is very common in— because of health issues? it is very common in missing persons inquiries for police _ common in missing persons inquiries for police when they make an appeal to set— for police when they make an appeal to set this _ for police when they make an appeal to set this person is high—risk or vulnerable — to set this person is high—risk or vulnerable because of health problems. there is nothing wrong with the _ problems. there is nothing wrong with the police setting that out if it is relevant and helps you understand the situation. i don't understand the situation. i don't understand why lancashire police and either— understand why lancashire police and either at _ understand why lancashire police and either at the outset of the investigation. they are saying and almost _ investigation. they are saying and almost freebies later. getting that information, i think, almost freebies later. getting that information, ithink, does almost freebies later. getting that information, i think, does raise some _ information, i think, does raise some serious questions. all information, ithink, does raise some serious questions. all this comes at a _ some serious questions. all this comes at a time _ some serious questions. all this comes at a time when _ some serious questions. all this comes at a time when british i some serious questions. all this comes at a time when british is | comes at a time when british is under quite tough scrutiny, doesn't it? ., , ., ., under quite tough scrutiny, doesn't it? ., .,,, under quite tough scrutiny, doesn't it? ., it? that is a real sense at the moment _ it? that is a real sense at the moment that _ it? that is a real sense at the moment that policing - it? that is a real sense at the moment that policing is - it? that is a real sense at the moment that policing is at. it? that is a real sense at the moment that policing is at a l moment that policing is at a crossroads because of events particularly in the metropolitan police. — particularly in the metropolitan police, and elsewhere, that have severely— police, and elsewhere, that have severely dented trust in police, particularly among women and girls. in a particularly among women and girls. in a case _ particularly among women and girls. in a case like this, in missing persons _ in a case like this, in missing persons inquiry, which has not been

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information is the lifeblood of police — information is the lifeblood of police investigations. it is what has helped solve so many police investigations. i think it is forgotten sometimes that the media has a role _ forgotten sometimes that the media has a role to play in that as well, really— has a role to play in that as well, really important role, and they need to be _ really important role, and they need to be onside. it is really important role, and they need to be onside— to be onside. it is a fine balance, thou~h, to be onside. it is a fine balance, though. where — to be onside. it is a fine balance, though, where you _ to be onside. it is a fine balance, though, where you have - to be onside. it is a fine balance, though, where you have got - though, where you have got information, whether it is coming from bringing the media on site to disseminate that information, and then you have got public meddling. how do the police distinguish whether the public are being helpful and actually frustrating and hindering the information? be a wider concern about how this is to be handled and how they move forward with this. i be handled and how they move forward with this. ~ ., be handled and how they move forward with this. ,, ., ,., . with this. i think what the police have to recognise _ with this. i think what the police have to recognise is _ with this. i think what the police have to recognise is that - with this. i think what the police have to recognise is that the - have to recognise is that the majority _ have to recognise is that the majority of the media reporters are responsible and want want to report what's _ responsible and want want to report what's happening and will take great interest— what's happening and will take great interest in_

what's happening and will take great interest in the information that the police _ interest in the information that the police put — interest in the information that the police put out there. and if the police — police put out there. and if the police in — police put out there. and if the police in a _ police put out there. and if the police in a high—profile case like this give — police in a high—profile case like this give information on a regular basis, _ this give information on a regular basis, that— this give information on a regular basis, that will occupy a lot of the media _ basis, that will occupy a lot of the media in— basis, that will occupy a lot of the media in terms of their reporting and coverage, and they won't have to id and coverage, and they won't have to go fishing _ and coverage, and they won't have to go fishing around for other bits and pieces— go fishing around for other bits and pieces of— go fishing around for other bits and pieces of information, scraps of information. that's the first thing. the second — information. that's the first thing. the second thing is, you have to build _ the second thing is, you have to build trust — the second thing is, you have to build trust between the police and the media, and that does not start in the _ the media, and that does not start in the middle of a major investigation. it starts when things are pretty— investigation. it starts when things are pretty quiet, that's when you have _ are pretty quiet, that's when you have to _ are pretty quiet, that's when you have to start building trust. and when _ have to start building trust. and when you — have to start building trust. and when you have doubt that trust, then at a time _ when you have doubt that trust, then at a time when things are difficult, when _ at a time when things are difficult, when you — at a time when things are difficult, when you have got a major inquiry, then it _ when you have got a major inquiry, then it is _ when you have got a major inquiry, then it is those reservoirs of trust that help — then it is those reservoirs of trust that help cement that relationship between _ that help cement that relationship between the media and the police and will help— between the media and the police and will help with the messaging as well _ will help with the messaging as well i— will help with the messaging as well. i am will help with the messaging as well. lam not will help with the messaging as well. i am not sure those lessons are completely understood by other people _ are completely understood by other people in _ are completely understood by other people in policing. there are,

sadly. — people in policing. there are, sadly, rogue elements of the media, and there _ sadly, rogue elements of the media, and there are people on social media who think— and there are people on social media who think they are journalists, and they are _ who think they are journalists, and they are not, and they're just out to cause — they are not, and they're just out to cause mischief. you are not going to cause mischief. you are not going to be _ to cause mischief. you are not going to be able _ to cause mischief. you are not going to be able to — to cause mischief. you are not going to be able tojust to cause mischief. you are not going to be able to just stop all of that, it is impossible. but you can influence _ it is impossible. but you can influence the majority of the media, responsible journalist and mainstream media, to get the message i’ili'it mainstream media, to get the message right and _ mainstream media, to get the message right and to _ mainstream media, to get the message right and to try and keep things on track— right and to try and keep things on track in _ right and to try and keep things on track in terms of the investigation, so that— track in terms of the investigation, so that when you have got an appeal to make. _ so that when you have got an appeal to make, when you need to put important — to make, when you need to put important information out there, you can do— important information out there, you can do it _ important information out there, you can do it unencumbered by the sort of nonsense — can do it unencumbered by the sort of nonsense that sadly we have seen in case _ of nonsense that sadly we have seen in case. ., ., .., ., in case. part of the coverage, particularly — in case. part of the coverage, particularly on _ in case. part of the coverage, particularly on social- in case. part of the coverage, particularly on social media, | in case. part of the coverage, i particularly on social media, was in case. part of the coverage, - particularly on social media, was a push back from a company that had been brought in as an external consultancy by lancashire police to help with the deep water search. they were criticised, but they had to go on to criticise this is the work they do, this is the tech that

they use. how common is it for police forces to bring in outside tech specialists? in police forces to bring in outside tech specialists?— police forces to bring in outside tech secialists? , ., .., , tech specialists? in big and complex inuuiries tech specialists? in big and complex inquiries come _ tech specialists? in big and complex inquiries come up _ tech specialists? in big and complex inquiries come up with _ tech specialists? in big and complex inquiries come up with the _ tech specialists? in big and complex inquiries come up with the debate i inquiries come up with the debate missinq _ inquiries come up with the debate missing persons or murdered, or a very complex fraud inquiry or orqanised _ very complex fraud inquiry or organised crime, it is established practice _ organised crime, it is established practice for police to bring in outside _ practice for police to bring in outside experts who have particular special _ outside experts who have particular special skills that are not necessarily needed to be used by police _ necessarily needed to be used by police every day. you want the very best experts. that does happen. the national— best experts. that does happen. the national crime agency, which represents the whole of the uk in the fight — represents the whole of the uk in the fight against serious and organised crime, have some

specialists. i believe if you're talking — specialists. i believe if you're talking about peter for loading and his team, — talking about peter for loading and his team, they are accredited specialists. they offered their help on this— specialists. they offered their help on this inquiry and they deliver some — on this inquiry and they deliver some help and support on it. it is not unusual— some help and support on it. it is not unusual for that to happen. what is unusual— not unusual for that to happen. what is unusual is — not unusual for that to happen. what is unusual is the intense high profile — is unusual is the intense high profile nature of this. there will have _ profile nature of this. there will have been— profile nature of this. there will have been specialists and experts beinq _ have been specialists and experts being called to support inquiries every— being called to support inquiries every single week of the year. we won't _ every single week of the year. we won't get — every single week of the year. we won't get to talk about and discuss it because — won't get to talk about and discuss it because they are not high—profile cases. _ it because they are not high—profile cases. it _ it because they are not high—profile cases. it is — it because they are not high—profile cases, it is being done in the background. what is unusual about this case _ background. what is unusual about this case is— background. what is unusual about this case is how how you profile it was _ this case is how how you profile it was by— this case is how how you profile it was by the — this case is how how you profile it was. by the time peter arrived, the cameras _ was. by the time peter arrived, the cameras were already there. in that sense, _ cameras were already there. in that sense it _ cameras were already there. in that sense it is — cameras were already there. in that sense, it is unusual. but absolutely the police _ sense, it is unusual. but absolutely the police should be consulting the very best _ the police should be consulting the very best experts in their field. they— very best experts in their field. they already said in the missing persons — they already said in the missing persons inquiry looking for nicola bulley, _ persons inquiry looking for nicola bulley, they spoke to environmental

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was raised with the police at 11am, i believe i— was raised with the police at 11am, i believe. iwould was raised with the police at 11am, i believe. i would like to know at what _ i believe. i would like to know at what point — i believe. i would like to know at what point did the search of the river— what point did the search of the river actually commence. not at what point the _ river actually commence. not at what point the teams were deployed or sent to _ point the teams were deployed or sent to the area, but when was the river— sent to the area, but when was the river first _ sent to the area, but when was the river first searched and by hugh? i have _ river first searched and by hugh? i have always wanted to know the answer — have always wanted to know the answer to — have always wanted to know the answer to that question because i felt that— answer to that question because i felt that was key to the inquiry to understanding if she did go in the river between 9:20am and at 9:30am on that— river between 9:20am and at 9:30am on that morning. how long it was before _ on that morning. how long it was before a — on that morning. how long it was before a fully equipped search team of divers— before a fully equipped search team of divers go underwater, forensic specialist. — of divers go underwater, forensic specialist, others, how long was the -ap specialist, others, how long was the gap between her potential being in the water— gap between her potential being in the water and the search team going in? and _ the water and the search team going in? and that hasn't actually been answered, — in? and that hasn't actually been answered, i don't think. it may be lancashire — answered, i don't think. it may be lancashire police don't want to divulge — lancashire police don't want to divulge that information. but i have always _ divulge that information. but i have always felt — divulge that information. but i have always felt that has been quite important, because if she did go in

the water— important, because if she did go in the water and the body had moved, it may have _ the water and the body had moved, it may have moved some distance away and that _ may have moved some distance away and that might explain why the initial— and that might explain why the initial searches didn't find her. but that— initial searches didn't find her. but that certain something i would want answered. do reconstructions still have their _ want answered. do reconstructions still have their place _ want answered. do reconstructions still have their place in _ want answered. do reconstructions still have their place in cases - want answered. do reconstructions still have their place in cases of. still have their place in cases of missing people?— still have their place in cases of missing people? still have their place in cases of missin: --eole? ~ ., , , missing people? well, of course they do. you missing people? well, of course they do- you mean — missing people? well, of course they do. you mean every _ missing people? well, of course they do. you mean every confession - missing people? well, of course they do. you mean every confession of. do. you mean every confession of where _ do. you mean every confession of where someone follows the route of the person?— where someone follows the route of the person? yes. absolutely. in this case, the person? yes. absolutely. in this case. there — the person? yes. absolutely. in this case. there was _ the person? yes. absolutely. in this case, there was a _ the person? yes absolutely. in this case, there was a very small time window— case, there was a very small time window when nicolet was seen at the upper— window when nicolet was seen at the upper field _ window when nicolet was seen at the upper field at ten past nine. the police _ upper field at ten past nine. the police tell— upper field at ten past nine. the police tell us her phone was on the bench _ police tell us her phone was on the bench at _ police tell us her phone was on the bench at 20 — police tell us her phone was on the bench at 20 past nine. then at 9:53am, — bench at 20 past nine. then at 9:53am, someone found the phone and 9z53am, someone found the phone and do- 9:53am, someone found the phone and dog harness _ 9:53am, someone found the phone and dog harness and couldn't see nicola. there _ dog harness and couldn't see nicola. there is— dog harness and couldn't see nicola. there is a _ dog harness and couldn't see nicola. there is a very, very small time window — there is a very, very small time window -- _

there is a very, very small time window. —— then at nine 30 3am. cctv provided _ window. —— then at nine 30 3am. cctv provided police — window. —— then at nine 30 3am. cctv provided police with the information they thought they needed to show that she _ they thought they needed to show that she hadn't left the area. they also had _ that she hadn't left the area. they also had dashcam footage as well and other witness accounts that made them _ other witness accounts that made them satisfied, as much as they could _ them satisfied, as much as they could be — them satisfied, as much as they could be, that she hadn't left the area _ could be, that she hadn't left the area i_ could be, that she hadn't left the area i can— could be, that she hadn't left the area. i can see of course there is any four— area. i can see of course there is any four reconstructions, and they are still— any four reconstructions, and they are still used in major inquiries, but i'm — are still used in major inquiries, but i'm not— are still used in major inquiries, but i'm not sure it would add much value _ but i'm not sure it would add much value in_ but i'm not sure it would add much value in this — but i'm not sure it would add much value in this particular case. how do olice value in this particular case. how do police protect _ value in this particular case. how do police protect the _ value in this particular case. firm do police protect the families of missing people? in yourtime, your experience, what tends to happen because mike is it adequate? is it a controllable situation? in terms of ensuring that the public, for

example, the media don't have access to the family. because they will be going through a very difficult period. knocking on somebody�*s door, we have heard it. does that still happened in? can it be stopped? sadly, i don't think you will ever be able — sadly, idon't think you will ever be able to— sadly, i don't think you will ever be able to stop that. it is impossible. i think the police can do things— impossible. i think the police can do things which can help control the flow of— do things which can help control the flow of information, keep the media occupied, _ flow of information, keep the media occupied, bring them on their side. then— occupied, bring them on their side. then you _ occupied, bring them on their side. then you can— occupied, bring them on their side. then you can control things to a certain— then you can control things to a certain extent, but you will not be able to _ certain extent, but you will not be able to stop rogue reporters and people _ able to stop rogue reporters and people who fancy themselves as being detectives— people who fancy themselves as being detectives and sleuths going to an area and _ detectives and sleuths going to an area and doing their own investigations. we can see now with social— investigations. we can see now with social media anyone can post a video, _ social media anyone can post a video, then it is. they can get up to a _ video, then it is. they can get up to a scene — video, then it is. they can get up to a scene and tried to solve this particular— to a scene and tried to solve this particular mystery. i don't see how we are _ particular mystery. i don't see how we are going to be able to stop

that _ we are going to be able to stop that the — we are going to be able to stop that. the important thing is to distinguish people like that, who are just — distinguish people like that, who are just not really serious, and journalists _ are just not really serious, and journalists who are properly accredited doing theirjob, and who should _ accredited doing theirjob, and who should be _ accredited doing theirjob, and who should be trusted. if you build a relationship of trust between the accredited media and the police, then you — accredited media and the police, then you can help relegate those armchair— then you can help relegate those armchair sleeves and tiktok detectives. that i think is the only approach — detectives. that i think is the only approach you can take.— detectives. that i think is the only approach you can take. have you in our ast approach you can take. have you in your past come _ approach you can take. have you in your past come across _ approach you can take. have you in your past come across a _ approach you can take. have you in| your past come across a comparable investigation, a case such as what is unfolding at the moment? certainly, the case of madeleine mccann, — certainly, the case of madeleine mccann, who went missing in portugal, _ mccann, who went missing in portugal, i think is a comparable case _ portugal, i think is a comparable case in _ portugal, i think is a comparable case in terms of the level of media interest _ case in terms of the level of media interest. obviously that was abroad, there _ interest. obviously that was abroad, there was— interest. obviously that was abroad, there was a — interest. obviously that was abroad, there was a lot of criticism of portuguese police. but in terms of

the levels — portuguese police. but in terms of the levels of interest, i think that generated more interest earlier. the circumstances were different, the parents _ circumstances were different, the parents were very involved, and so on. parents were very involved, and so on but— parents were very involved, and so on but in— parents were very involved, and so on. but in terms of the level of interest— on. but in terms of the level of interest and people not sort of understanding what happened... it understanding what happened... a warm understanding what happened... warm welcome to viewers on bbc world. we are covering a developing story he had on the bbc world news channel. that is concerning the discovery of a body in the area where the 45—year—old mother of two, nicola bulley, went missing. police have confirmed that they were called to the scene earlier today, just after 11:30am. specialist officers entered the river wired, they have sadly recovered a body, but are keen to stress that there is no formal

identification that the body is