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tv   Click  BBC News  February 19, 2023 4:30pm-5:01pm GMT

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take you to reaction from i could take you to reaction from the home secretary, suella braverman, who hasjust tweeted, we can read that out to our viewers, saying... yunus, what issues, what questions, what criticisms have lancashire police come under during this ongoing investigation? we police come under during this ongoing investigation? we are almost three weeks into _ ongoing investigation? we are almost three weeks into this _ ongoing investigation? we are almost three weeks into this missing - three weeks into this missing persons investigation. they called us all in, members of the media, and in that news conference revealed
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that from the very beginning they thought this missing persons investigation, they treated nicola as high risk because she had specific vulnerability. they later clarified all that by telling us what those vulnerabilities wear. they said that nicola had alcohol issues and that she had struggled with the menopause, and that they had resurfaced in recent months. that provoked a lot of reaction. you heard that tweet from the home secretary. what followed was a lot of criticism, which perhaps the force was not expecting, from a number of groups who felt deeply uncomfortable that this kind of information was being released to the public, details of nicola's private life, three weeks into the investigation, and the questioned whether it was relevant, whether they had to do that at all. so the
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force was under a lot of scrutiny. lancashire police did inform nicola's family they were about to do this. they said that nicola would not have wanted that kind of information to be released. but they also said there was a lot of speculation out there in about nicola's private life, and the threats to sell it to various outlets, newspapers and that kind of thing. nicola's family themselves went on to reveal that nicola had been suffering from brain fog and also intense headaches and had these issues. throughout this investigation, that has been a lot of speculation about what might have happened to her. police have of course be working on and on that hypothesis is that she went into the river, but there were a lot of people who did not accept that. the village only has a small population of around 600. there are people from
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across the country visiting this village putting forward their own theories, filming that in putting that out there. so lancashire police perhaps felt they had to stamp out that speculation, put a stop to it. nicola's family said it was extremely distressing for them, including the club as my partner. they were trying to give us a better end of what they were doing, and why they be doing what they were doing and what they were telling us. but of course it comes back to the fact that this private information was being put out there. we have the information commissioner saying he wanted to lancashire police to explain to him how they arrived at that decision. suella braverman, the home secretary, the prime minister, they also wanted to know why this kind of information was being released to the public. so we had this huge amount of criticism being
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put forward to the force. that is perhaps why lancashire police, they will be an internal review of how they have conducted this information, and what they have released and when they have released that information to others. tier? that information to others. very cuickl , that information to others. very quickly, rawcliffe _ that information to others. very quickly, rawcliffe road, - that information to others. very quickly, rawcliffe road, we do have a map of the nine area —— nine area that concerns nicola bulley. we have the towpath, we have rawcliffe road. just describe it to us. it is the towpath, we have rawcliffe road. just describe it to us.— just describe it to us. it is a auiet just describe it to us. it is a quiet country _ just describe it to us. it is a quiet country road - just describe it to us. it is a quiet country road not - just describe it to us. it is a quiet country road not far. just describe it to us. it is a i quiet country road not far from just describe it to us. it is a - quiet country road not far from the centre of the village, not far from the school, perhaps a few hundred yards at best from the school were nicola dropped off her children before she went on that riverside walk. a few hundred yards from the bench where her phone was found, still connected to that work
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conference call, and also were her dog, its harness was found by a member of the public. i spoke to one dog walker arejust the member of the public. i spoke to one dog walker are just the other day and he was telling me he found that through it and he immediately alerted people, because it was strange that there was a phone and a dog there but no owner. it is a small village. rawcliffe road is just a short distance from the village hall, not farfrom the school. where they are searching todayis school. where they are searching today is perhaps half a mile from the main road that goes through the village of saint michaels on wire and about a mile or so from that area. . , , ~ ., ., , area. that is yunus mulla, who is in saint michaels _ area. that is yunus mulla, who is in saint michaels on _ area. that is yunus mulla, who is in saint michaels on wire. _ area. that is yunus mulla, who is in saint michaels on wire. let's - area. that is yunus mulla, who is in saint michaels on wire. let's return| saint michaels on wire. let's return to a former senior detective, peter
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black's leave. thank you for coming back to take you through the next steps of this particular case. i was watching some of the footage from the search that was conducted or has been conducted in the early days following the announcement of nicola's disappearance. officers are walking along the bank of the river, i think there was an image of two others. what are they looking for? what evidence are they looking for? in the early stages of the investigation, lancashire told us about their working hypothesis that nicola had gone into the water. whilst they later render back a bit on that and saying they were keeping an open mind, it kind of begs the question— what exactly were they doing? orwere
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question— what exactly were they doing? or were they providing a mere police presence in order to reassure the local community that the police were actually doing something. we are so used now to turning on our screens and seen crime scenes with people in at the forensic suits, types of cordons, little yellow items on for indicating where things have been found. but of course we didn't see any of this with nicola's disappearance. but that, in part, because we didn't see the usual imagery so often connected with large and major inquiries, i think that has helped fuel all the speculation, it got all the armchair detectives engaged, and it made a lot of people rather suspicious of the messaging that was coming out from the lancashire constabulary. having said that, the scrutiny that i am thousand now to yourself, as a
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member of the media, is that helpful? member of the media, is that helful? ~ . �* ., ., ., helpful? what i'm alluding to now? the questions _ helpful? what i'm alluding to now? the questions i'm _ helpful? what i'm alluding to now? the questions i'm asking. - helpful? what i'm alluding to now? the questions i'm asking. what - helpful? what i'm alluding to now? | the questions i'm asking. what they looking for? the timing of the searches. does that help police investigations, or is that a little bit to intrusive cosmic what is the feeling amongst police forces about the media? the feeling amongst police forces about the media? ,., . ., ., feeling amongst police forces about the media? . ., ., ., the media? the police have got a lona , the media? the police have got a long, meandering, _ the media? the police have got a long, meandering, sometimes i the media? the police have got a - long, meandering, sometimes prickly relationship with the media. but of course since the levenson inquiry, when so much back and won doing was exposed, the police have become far less, shall we say, with the media than they used to be. there used to be whispered conversations at the corners of detectives' maps to trust the journalist. corners of detectives' maps to trust thejournalist. they corners of detectives' maps to trust the journalist. they used to be meetings in pubs where a few pints were drunk and people in the now
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were drunk and people in the now were informed of what they should know. those days are gone now. in many regards, that's not a bad thing. all the media dealings now are very upfront, very open, as we have seen in these press conferences. there isn't any hushed whispers any more. whilst there was a cross wrongdoing in the bad days, it is because of that lack of trust between the police and media, i think this is a case that has showed that it think this is a case that has showed thatitis think this is a case that has showed that it is not always a good thing. if perhaps the media had been briefed of the record way back in at the early stages of this inquiry, it might have put paid to the constant speculation that was being asked around the vulnerabilities. of course, as soon as that word got out at the press conference last wednesday, the media, quite rightly, were very, very inquisitive about that. later on, lancashire police mentioned the alcohol connected to
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the menopause, and of course a real kicked up. they will have to be major wholesale reviews about how the messaging was put out during this case, and i think that is going to have to be perhaps alternative strategies developed. but i hope that the police really get a grip on the fact that messaging is vital, detail is vital, accuracy is vital. and sometimes there is more than one way to explain vulnerabilities. for example, if the police had said right from the early days, yes, nicola is vulnerable because she has mental health issues, that might well have put paid to any further speculation and disclosures. peter, another guest _ speculation and disclosures. peter, another guest i _ speculation and disclosures. peter, another guest i spoke _ speculation and disclosures. peter, another guest i spoke to _ speculation and disclosures. peter, another guest i spoke to earlier - another guest i spoke to earlier also brought up the issue of vulnerabilities and how they are described and spoken about in the public eye, in particular with women and alcohol, or whether it is
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menopause. personal aspects of a woman's life. our men treated the same way? when a man has been treated in the same way in a similar case come in at your experience? to be honest. �* , case come in at your experience? to be honest-— case come in at your experience? to be honest. any answer to that would be honest. any answer to that would be guesswork- _ be honest. any answer to that would be guesswork. please _ be honest. any answer to that would be guesswork. please don't - be honest. any answer to that would be guesswork. please don't think - be honest. any answer to that would | be guesswork. please don't think i'm being flippant or retrospective, i'm not, but of course men don't suffer from the menopause. it has not been on the wing in the past when, say, for example, an elderly person goes missing, for the police to say this person is vulnerable because they are suffering from memory loss, or they may be confused, or that they are suffering from dementia. so, personal vulnerabilities have been declared in missing people cases by various police services in the past.
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likewise, if somebody goes missing and they are a habitual drug user, that sometimes will be posted together with an image of that person, their description and saying that they have gone missing from and where they were last seen. so this isn't the first time that personal information in regards to vulnerabilities has been disclosed, but i think it is the first time with regards to the menopause, that's for sure.— with regards to the menopause, that's for sure. what did you make ofthe that's for sure. what did you make of the last messaging _ that's for sure. what did you make of the last messaging we - that's for sure. what did you make of the last messaging we had - that's for sure. what did you make of the last messaging we had from lancashire police, the statement that has been released. is that something you would have expected at this point in time? iwith something you would have expected at this point in time?— this point in time? with regards to the discovery _ this point in time? with regards to the discovery of— this point in time? with regards to the discovery of the _ this point in time? with regards to the discovery of the body? - this point in time? with regards to the discovery of the body? yes. i this point in time? with regards to i the discovery of the body? yes. yes, i think that — the discovery of the body? yes. yes, i think that has — the discovery of the body? yes. yes, i think that has been very much on message, a very traditional type of message, a very traditional type of message you might expect to come
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from the police service, expressing the necessary sensitivities. let's not forget, this is a very sombre day today. there will of course need to be at the formal identification process. that is right, that's correct, lancashire have alluded to that. i have absolutely no adverse comment on that whatsoever. there will of course, in turn, be a postmortem. we have seen crime scene investigators already by the river bank, so they will be endeavouring to recover whatever forensic evidence they can to assist with the investigation and the post—morton and, in turn, the coroners inquest. how long could we expect the area to be secured and cordoned off? that would be a — be secured and cordoned off? trust would be a matter for the senior investigation officer in consultation with the forensic experts. when they think they have examined it to as much as they regard as being correct and proper,
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then the cordons will come down, life will slowly begin to go back to normal. forthe life will slowly begin to go back to normal. for the people of st michael's on wyre, i'm sure in some kind of white they will be looking forward to the immediate leaving town, the police leaving town, and like perhaps getting some semblance of normality back. but of course there will always be a very large gaping hole in that community if this body does in fact turn out to be that of nicola bulley. at, this body does in fact turn out to be that of nicola bulley. a number of tuests be that of nicola bulley. a number of guests have _ be that of nicola bulley. a number of guests have said _ be that of nicola bulley. a number of guests have said at _ be that of nicola bulley. a number of guests have said at this - of guests have said at this political case is unprecedented. —— this particular case is unprecedented. people go missing all at the time. as the media attention it has hired? is at the public? is at the fact that social media is involved? is also the fact that
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british policing is under huge scrutiny at the moment? what has made it this so unprecedented? and made it this so unprecedented? and number of made it this so unprecedented? situc number of all those made it this so unprecedented? fific number of all those factors come into play. i think what grips the public�*s interest is that this is such an everyday ordinary story. a woman drops her kids off at school, walks her dogs, has a work meeting on her phone, and then within the space of minutes it became a very extraordinary story. again, i have to allude to the fact that lancashire police did not help themselves or the public with a lot of their messaging. social media it now, tiktok, who would have thought some years ago that people could make a living out of posting the radios of scenes where people have gone missing, with which they have utterly no connection or right to be there? the world is changing, the
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police has to change. this case is really showing that.— police has to change. this case is really showing that. what are the challen . es really showing that. what are the challenges of _ really showing that. what are the challenges of working _ really showing that. what are the challenges of working within - really showing that. what are the challenges of working within the l challenges of working within the water? ~ ., , ., challenges of working within the water? ~ . , ., , water? water is an ever shifting medium. water? water is an ever shifting medium- if _ water? water is an ever shifting medium. if it— water? water is an ever shifting medium. if it is— water? water is an ever shifting medium. if it is in _ water? water is an ever shifting medium. if it is in a _ water? water is an ever shifting medium. if it is in a river, even| water? water is an ever shifting | medium. if it is in a river, even a canal, it is certainly in the sea. is the water shifts, especially tidal water, is the water shifts, especially tidalwater, it is the water shifts, especially tidal water, it presents a lot of challenges. we know there was one man, a self—styled underwater search expert, who went there with a state of art sonar equipment, and hold the world through the media that if nicolette was in the river, she would find her. she didn't. so perhaps that just goes would find her. she didn't. so perhaps thatjust goes to show what a challenge this river was. i'm told that last at some point it is very shallow, within a matter of feet, the depth plummets. so, to me that
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there is no way shape or form that an x the... i can understand what sort of a challenge that must have been. having said that, we saw police divers, doubts, lancashire rescue also volunteered their services, and none of them were able to find nicola's body if this body turns out to beat nicola's. perhaps all those experts in the field may also have to review how they go about their work.— also have to review how they go about their work. some information about their work. some information about their work. some information about the timeline _ about their work. some information about the timeline that _ about their work. some information about the timeline that has - about their work. some information about the timeline that has been i about the timeline that has been released about the search for nicola bulley. it can send some of the witnesses identified on cctv or by other witnesses. we had another dog walker identified who found nicola's phone on the bench beside the river.
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we had a discussion of her account and what she was wearing. we then had another witness picked up on cctv with, i believe, a yellow coat. in your experience, how well do witnesses like to be identified in such a public way and how willingly do they come forward? that such a public way and how willingly do they come forward?— do they come forward? that can de-end do they come forward? that can depend on _ do they come forward? that can depend on the _ do they come forward? that can depend on the circumstances. i do they come forward? that can i depend on the circumstances. for example, if you have a gangland drive by shooting an innocent members of the public helping to witness it, it is sometimes understandable if they are reluctant to tell the police what they saw for fear of being identified and going to court as witnesses and it being further identified and themselves being put at risk. but this of course was a very, very different set of circumstances. i don't feel anybody mention in the early stages of this missing person inquiry by
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the scratch and, pretty narrow descriptions, has any records of complaint against lancashire police because that might have ended if police were, after all, searching for a woman that they already knew was vulnerable. we have two and in the context of the police and health workers visiting nicola's house on january ten, that is inescapable. it was only last week that lancashire police said that matter remained quote — unquote, under investigation. it is the matter for which lancashire police have reported themselves to the independent office for police conduct. that very much forms the context of what lancashire police were thinking about when they were putting out least descriptions of
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the witnesses, the early stages of their investigation, or the research for this missing person and their early press conferences. no new stuff we didn't, they didn't want it revealed. but of course the truth will out, it very much tied to, and now they are very much under the microscope for all of the aforementioned.- microscope for all of the aforementioned. , , ., aforementioned. just to remind viewers of _ aforementioned. just to remind viewers of what _ aforementioned. just to remind viewers of what lancashire i aforementioned. just to remind i viewers of what lancashire police have said regarding the latest development today. we have actually got it on our computer and you can see on twitter. " this morning, you may be aware of police activity near to st michael's. we want to provide you an update on the activity. we were called at 11:36am to reports of a body in the river why you're close
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to a road. underwater search teams and specialist officers subsequently attended the scene and entered the water and have sadly recovered a body. no formal identification has been carried out so we are unable to say whether this is nicola bulley at this time. procedures to identify the body are ongoing. we are currently treating the death as unexplained. i would like to just go back to where the police attended, where they were called, where nicola went missing. as many people have been saying, it is around a mile— from what we are being told — but we are talking about a mile. some people could say, how could you get it so wrongremember, lancashire police were very swift to tell us at
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press conferences how they have specialists in their field, press conferences how they have specialists in theirfield, the best they had in terms of tidal flows, rivers. �* ., , they had in terms of tidal flows, rivers. �* . , ., rivers. and that they had confidently _ rivers. and that they had confidently national i rivers. and that they had l confidently national crime rivers. and that they had - confidently national crime agency rivers. and that they had _ confidently national crime agency to assist them in a tactical and strategic way. so lancashire did reach out. there was many an expert that gave the advice, perhaps, maybe even gave some form of direction. expert divers, expert people in search and rescue. and, yet, they didn't find nicola's body. so, it is only right and proper that these experts perhaps have a rethink on some of their thinking. if not, then i'm sure they will be pretty swift whenever they can to explain to us that there might always be our explained elements perhaps in tidal rivers. that's certainly not a field
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in which i can ever claim to be an expert. in which i can ever claim to be an exert. a , in which i can ever claim to be an exert. , , .,, ., in which i can ever claim to be an exert. , , ., ~ expert. many people are thinking, what is it like — expert. many people are thinking, what is it like underwater? - expert. many people are thinking, what is it like underwater? what l expert. many people are thinking, l what is it like underwater? what are the challenges of working or searching underwater? and if it is tidal, wouldn't the body have moved further along? tidal, wouldn't the body have moved furtheralong? if tidal, wouldn't the body have moved further along? if you are in charge of an investigation like this and you are looking for a missing person, what would a specialists have told you? what would be the key factors that you would be bearing in mind? i factors that you would be bearing in mind? ~ ., mind? i think in future i would listen to those _ mind? i think in future i would listen to those experts - mind? i think in future i would l listen to those experts because, clearly, detectives can't be, and shouldn't expect to be experts in underwater tidal flows and the like. that is simply something they don't have to know about. that is why they have to know about. that is why they have these experts. i can see the contracts being signed tomorrow for a documentary on the missing nicola
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bulley, when such contrary and experts might be called down to question what the police were told. when you are a detective, you have to trust your instincts, because initial instincts that would have served you well and got you into the position of detective and hopefully ensure you have investigated a lot of crime successfully and looked up a lot of bad people. may be is something a lot of detectives need to reconnect with, that good old gut feeling. i know it is unquantifiable so senior police leaders will not like it. sometimes, trust your gut, trust that coppers now is, trust your instincts.— trust that coppers now is, trust your instincts. there were three oints in your instincts. there were three points in the — your instincts. there were three points in the strategy _ your instincts. there were three points in the strategy that i your instincts. there were three points in the strategy that has l your instincts. there were three i points in the strategy that has been identified. if you are justjoining us here on bbc news, that has been no confirmation that the body that
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has been found in the river wyre is indeed that of 45—year—old nicola bulley. let's go back to peter, a former police superintendent. three strategies were put forward. the first was that nicola possibly entered the water. the second possibility is that they may have been a third party involved. the food hypothesis was that she willingly left the scene. was that expected? let willingly left the scene. was that exected? . ., . willingly left the scene. was that exected? . expected? let me correct you, i never attained _ expected? let me correct you, i never attained the _ expected? let me correct you, i never attained the glittering i expected? let me correct you, i | never attained the glittering rank of detective superintendent. thank you for the open promotion. i apologise. you for the open promotion. i apologise- we _ you for the open promotion. i apologise. we know - you for the open promotion. i apologise. we know the i you for the open promotion. i i apologise. we know the working h othesis apologise. we know the working hypothesis that _ apologise. we know the working hypothesis that nicola _ apologise. we know the working hypothesis that nicola went i apologise. we know the working hypothesis that nicola went into | apologise. we know the working i hypothesis that nicola went into the water was their main strand of the inquiry. it wasjust water was their main strand of the inquiry. it was just a bit later on that they said they were keeping an
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open mic in terms of whether there was a third if nicola left of her own volition. but they did a lot of work on all the surrounding cctv. it left only one possible route that nicola could have travelled in the area without being seen. that was when they ask for dashcam footage or if there were any sightings from people in vehicles after they drove through. we know that the police about two 700 vehicle owners as part of that pretty substantial inquiry to try to bottom of that thread out, so to speak. i'm sure if this body turns out to be that of nicola bulley, that in some regards that the police will feel vindicated because that was their working hypothesis that would have turned out to be true should this body turn
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out to be true should this body turn out to be nicola. we will probably not have to wait too long for confirmation, or otherwise, on that front. there will be other aspects, of course, of the investigation, because it has been under the microscope, it really has, and rightfully so. you expect that if you are a senior detective running a case with massive media and public interest, and with the interest of course, scrutineer. that is only right. we need to hold our police to account. in regards to the vulnerabilities and the visit to nicola's home address onjanuary ten of this year, i firmly believe that the police tried to suppress that truth from coming out and that they only released those snippets, or
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those staggering items when forced to do so. it is not that long ago, just a matter of two or three short weeks ago, that the ceo of the couege weeks ago, that the ceo of the college of policing, andy marsh, himself a former chief constable, had to make an apology on behalf of the police for the abomination that was the hillsborough disaster 3a years ago. when he made that apology, he me said that in future the police were going act with to candour. in other words, they were going to be truthful and straightforward. i question whether lancashire police were entirely truthful and straightforward with regards to the flow of information, regarding the investigation into the missing person, nicola bulley. trier?
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missing person, nicola bulley. very tuickl , missing person, nicola bulley. very quickly. we — missing person, nicola bulley. very quickly. we have — missing person, nicola bulley. very quickly, we have searches going on on the ground and the air as well. from a helicopter, what advantage is there that you don't have a close proximity when you are walking the scene? , , , ., scene? the eyes in the sky have solved so _ scene? the eyes in the sky have solved so many _ scene? the eyes in the sky have solved so many crimes - scene? the eyes in the sky have solved so many crimes and i scene? the eyes in the sky have i solved so many crimes and captured solved so many crimes and captured so many people that they are a vital, while total in policing. peter, thank you for now. thank you very much indeed for your expertise. you are watching bbc news. our breaking news today is that a body has been retrieved from the river wyre in the area where 45—year—old nicola bulley went missing on january 27. there has been no confirmation that the body that was retrieved by specialist police
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forces is that of nicola bulley. we have got correspondents on the scene and also speaking to special here on bbc news. do stay with us. more to come. this is bbc news. welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. our top stories... police investigating the disappearance of a 45 year—old woman in the northwest of england say they have recovered a body from a river near to where nicola bulley was last seen. the us secretary of state says china is considering supplying weapons and ammunition to russia for its war against ukraine. i have seen them provide non—lethal support to russia for use in ukraine. the concern that we have now is based on information that we have that they are considering providing little support. —— lethal
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