this is bbc news. the headlines: at least six people have been killed in a shooting incident in the german city of hamburg. several others were injured. the attack happened inside a meeting hall forjehovah's witnesses. police believe that a person found with fatal injuries on the upper floor of the building was the attacker. the head of the united nations nuclear watchdog has warned of potential disaster after russian missile strikes temporarily cut off the power supply to europe's biggest nuclear power plant in southern ukraine. president zelensky said russia was willing to jeopardise nuclear facilities anywhere in order to create terror. three people have been wounded in tel aviv in what police say was a suspected terror attack.

at the same time, thousands of israelis took to the streets for a day of protest against a planned judicial overhaul. their president says the government should abandon its controversial plan. now on bbc news: it's hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. something extraordinary is happening in israel. military reservists, former security chiefs and politicians of different stripes have alljoint a mass protest movement aimed at thwarting the netanyahu plan to radically overall israel's judicial system. the critics say it threatens israel's stability.

this as violence in the west bank raising questions over the strategic direction of netanyahu's nationalist government. my guest simcha rothman is an architect of those judicial reforms. it's israel plunging into chaos? simcha rothman injerusalem, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. it is a pleasure to have you on the show. would it be fair to say that you have been preparing for years for this opportunity that you have right now to impose your political will on the israeli judiciary?

no. i do not think the right term is impose my will on thejudiciary. i think it is vice versa. i'm trying to make israeli judiciary be more independent from the pressures it is currently having, more appointed in a way that is more democratic, like most other countries in the world that elect their judges through the democratic system, and after theirjudges are elected or selected, they are independent. that is where it works in most democratic countries around the world, and that is the way it should work in israel. in israel, we have a very strange system where the judiciary basically self perpetuates in itself and has a veto that will get in an ever growing distance between the republic in

israel and thejudges and it was not so bad when it was the situation in the uk when the court cannot cancel laws that were passed by the parliament, saying it's incompatible with some values, we cannot cancel the laws and definitely it is used in other ways in the political system. you raise a lot of points there, but i guess to simplify, what you are saying is that you believe that the proposed reforms boost the independence of the high court when it seems very clear majority of israelis disagree. they feel that your reform, the idea a simple majority can override a high court ruling, the fact that you want the politicians to have much more power in appointing thejudges in most israelis feel that makes the court more

dependent on the politicians, not more independent. i don't know where you draw the most israelis from. the vote in elections voted for exactly those reforms and if they were well detailed before the elections in my party and by other parties in the coalition. it was very clear that the majority of the republic in israel voted on. and it's clear that some people do not like it. but to say the majority of the republic in israel did not support the change in the way we select ourjudges and other issues, i do not know where you draw this conclusion. we draw it from opinion poll services, the centre for public opinion and policy research survey which found two thirds of those surveyed

opposed the proposals and interestingly, 44% of people who voted for the parties in netanyahu's coalition opposed key parts of your measures. a small problem, the idi is very much involved in working against — it is not an independent... you like the polls which support your side... i like the polls that were conducted with more than 4 million voters in the elected parties, that this was a key to the agenda before the election. i think that's the most reliable poll, and not one done by me but the idi that is a player, the parties that supported these reforms were promising before the elections and they won

a majority of the election and the democracy, that is fluid works, even if they do not like it. is it making a difference that hundreds of thousands of israelis are — never mind the polls right but israelis are taking to the streets by the hundreds of thousands to express their disapproval in their opposition to thisjudicial reform. does that not matter to you? of course it matters to me, and demonstration is a part of a viable democracy. people can protest and that is their right, and they should fight for this right, and i will fight for this right to demonstrate and within the law, that is ok and i think that raises valid points. we talked to the leaders

of the protests and people that openly talk about this issue, the judicial reform is the smallest part of their concern. they are not going to the streets because ofjudicial reform. they're going to the streets because they don't like the facts and they should respect the words they say with the prime minister. he did not like the outcomes of the elections which is ok, people can protest the fact that they do not like the outcomes of the elections but it's not aboutjudicial reform. some are more worried for religion based legislation. some of it is real and most of it is fake, but the fears are definitely real and it's ourjob to prove ourselves and show that those fears are not true, but the judicial reform, is i think the smallest problem for the most of the protesters. it suits your agenda to say that thousands of protesters are driven by political motivation and they are all leftists and oppositionists. i did not say that. some of your colleagues have definitely said it.

i did not use the word leftist, i did not even say political motivation. i talked about the worries that the protesters say that they have. when you listen to them and talk to them, they are worried about other issues, and some of them are worried about the judicial reforms, that is true. but i think that is the minority of those protesting. protesting about other issues is the major concern, not thejudicial reform. it is the position of some the most feared and apolitical institutions and figures and personalities in the country. like? like all the living attorney generals in israel today oppose your measures. so, you...

a huge number cheifs of the military and the security agencies — joint statements from 400 of them, all of them opposing your measures saying they will be deeply damaging and dangerous for israeli democracy, and these are some the most revered institutions in your country. so, you say the legal advisers do not support the reforms that would take away the extra power from the legal advisers. it is interesting. why would they? the legal advisers in israel have power like no other — i would say even public civil servant. i would say like the politicians. there is an article written — and that is why i did not say leftist or right—wing because one of the leading

professors is actually on the left in israel. there is no otherfigure as powerful as the chief legal adviser — is no more powerful than the president of the us, prime minister of the uk and all other together because he has the power basically to do whatever he wants to prevent the government from having the voice be heard in the court. it is a reform much needed and i would not be surprised if the chief legal adviser that held this amount of power over the years did not support taking away this power. if you're not happy to take the witness statements of attorney generals — do not think that's interesting to your case — how about the 400 senior officials from the israeli police force? again, do you suggest the people — 400 is a large number — but the number of people that did not sign

this paper from the same places are increasing, but you know what, just to take an example from the past week. there was a paper presented with ideas on how to adjust the reform and how to make it as some consider a compromise. a world renowned expert, and he was a justice minister in israel and the left—wing government, not a guy from the right, and another professoragain, not right—wing person and working. actually nominated by that of the opposition to be in senior positions less than a year ago and two former generals. are you telling me that you're ready to compromise, given the scale of the pushback? i am just saying that they prepared the paper, and after they presented

the paper, it was leaked to the press, and now, one of them are maybe all of them, but one of them is caving under it — and published today, they get threats to take away the signature with violence from their friends and pressure groups. the fact that people sign this and some parts of the elites in israel are being bullied into either objecting or not to say they are supporting. i'm a little confused. are you saying — hang on. are you saying that men like the former idf chief of staff, are you saying that they are bullied to take the stand ? just a second... the former head in israel

says that "i do not want to become the mercenary of a dictator." that is a former army chief saying that his criticism. they have refused to do their reserve training in protest at your proposal. all all 0k, again, there are people who see terrible stuff. some people that are former chiefs of staff in israel ran for prime minister positions in israel, lost to netanyahu, and will say anything that they can in order to demonise the government. this is not about demonisation. just a second. the fact that he says so does that make it true. if you want to talk about the substance and not do an ad hominem discussion of who said what,

that we can do. if you want to say he says and she says and the experts support my view. i do not think that will bring us any closer to understanding the issues at hand. the reason why i'm interested in who is for and opposes your position is because in the end, this is a political and judicial matter. you have worked in your effort to end what you call the judicial dictatorship in israel for years. you now have specific legislation and want it's to get it through the knesset. i wonder if it has made any difference to you to see the scale of the opposition in the protest movement has been supported by people, and ijust name one more. neta nyahu's closest ally

who is as close to anyone as netanyahu and to sit in the recent past, passing this reform in its current state will lead to disaster. again, if you want quotes, we can quote people from either side. none of these people have given you pause for thought? i think that applying to authority, it does not make a very good argument. if there are claims, i can talk about the claims. if there are, i say, it is bad because i said so, that is not a discussion that i'm capable of doing because i don't think it will make a good conversation. if you want, i can quote people who support and nobel prize winners. if you want, if it's ok, it is fine by you, nobel prize winner came to the committee on the first day and said that my reform is too subtle and as to be more harsh and we should have no judge in the judicial selection

committee and nobel prize winner, world—renowned economist and in game theory, that is why he built the committee to electjudges. another person wrote a very detailed description of comparative international law on many issues. if it is about name dropping who supports and who objects, i don't think it's so interesting but if you want, we can do this. i think it will be more interesting but it is up to you. what will happen if you push this legislation all the way through the knesset and the high court, as it still has the power to do, blocks it, stop you will know, does not have the power to do it. it can still declare it unlawful. they cannot.

that is the position, the knesset legal adviser, i cannot even count how many times said very specifically on behalf of all the knesset, right, left, former governments, this government, all of them said that the court does not have this power in israel and just like the supreme court in the us cannot cancel amendments to the constitution, just like the supreme court in the uk cannot cancel legislation. basic law in israel is not a constitution. what you're asking me now is what will israel do if the supreme court will say, i am not committed to the law, that is a very good question. you should ask a person who thinks if the court can decide that the basic law in

israel i was passed lawfully is unlawful and based on what? to ask this question, i think that's a good question to ask and ask anyone to suggest that a court can act without a law. in your opinion, if the court tries to use what it sees as its power to block this legislation, could it plunge israel into civil violence? i don't think the it sees it as its own power. i think that any and every situation that the army or police or any other security organisation does not get their orders from the elected officials of the country, that country stops being a democracy. that is the threat to democracy that i can talk about. but to say that the democracy is a self—perpetuating self—selected court, deciding that the basic law

that was passed national gallery of victoria the knesset lawfully does not bind him, that is not democracy, that does not rule of law, that is not a situation that i think will happen in israel connecting suggesting it means that you, the person asking this question, do not believe the courts in israel are obligated to the rule of law. i do not think that is the situation. if it is, we are much graver danger than any of the dangers you just mentioned. is it the case that israel faces a twin challenge right now, in your opinion, not only is there turmoil inside the country, and there is turmoil, but we see intensifying the violence across the militarily occupied west bank. it isa it is a twin challenge for israel. do you think israel is struggling to meet it? i think the violence by the palestinians is something that

is constant injudea and samaria. i think that it's basically, there are ups and downs, but i think we are facing this challenge and the reason for that challenge is having nothing to do with what's happening in israel, but the reason is because the palestinian authority pays for terrorists that murderjewish people, they are paid extra if you do more crimes with the two more people if they are citizens of israel did extra money for doing so in the fact that they're getting made to killjewish people, and in their schools, that makes terror become constant. it is happening all the time. the spiral of violence is intensifying — at least 14 israelis killed since the beginning of the year and more than 70, more than 70 palestinians killed since the beginning

of this year. in that context, do you think it is helpful, to see jewish settlers, hundreds of them rampaging through a palestinian village, hawara, burning properties, burning businesses, to see the israeli military standing by doing nothing and then have the leader of your party tweet out things like this. "the village of hawara needs to be wiped out. "i think the state of israel needs to do that." is that helpful? again, i think about, that's not a tweet by him, that's definitely not in english. but anyway, he explained what he said, and he also apologised for any person

who understood it the way you're trying to collerate. that's not how i understood it, that's of the us state department understood it, they called it disgusting and repugnant and they said that it was incitement to violence. if you want me to answer questions, i think i can talk for more than ten seconds uninterrupted. if it is ok. i think this, what happened in hawara on that day was terrible. it was terrible when two innocentjewish people were murdered just because they were jewish people, two brothers that did nothing to harm anyone. they were murdered. there was terrible and that happened in hawara on the same day. it was also very troubling the also terrible that people

hurt innocent people afterwards. but thank god no one died from that. and it wasn't justified. it was terrible. but colouring situations when the palestinian authority pays good money for its own budget will make it clear... we're almost out of time. i made this point already and despite the fact that this government entity that pays money to killjewish people, you still think someone tweeted and it was taken out of context, that is the problem. and the main problem is the incitement and the terror in the state—sponsored terror in the palestinian authority. we will and on that note. i thank you very much

forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. hello there. disruptive snowfall has been affecting central and southern scotland, onto northern england, north wales and northern ireland and heavy snowfall likely to continue across northern england, north wales, north midlands as we head into friday morning. so some disruption likely, roads will be treacherous in those areas. the snow clears away though fairly quickly from scotland and northern ireland early on friday and will slowly pull away from england and wales as well but it will be a windy morning across england and wales, some drifting of that snow too. eventually it starts to pull away into the north sea,

allowing skies to brighten up for many. plenty of sunshine for scotland and northern ireland but further snow showers affecting northern and north—east scotland. a colder day to come across the board including southern england, temperatures ranging from around 2—7 celsius. then as we head through friday night, we are under a ridge of high pressure, light winds, an area of cold air sitting across the uk, so temperatures tumble as we head through friday night. clear skies, light winds. further snow showers across northern scotland but ice will become a problem, particularly where we've got all that lying snow. don't be surprised if we see —10 celsius across the snowfields of northern england and —15 or so across the snowfields of highlands and grampians. so here's the pressure chart for saturday, we see the weather front working its way into southern and western areas through the day but ahead of it, it'll be dry, clear and very cold so we start crisp and sunny for saturday before skies start to turn cloudy. as this weather front

works its way into the west, we could see some sleet and snow for the higher ground of south—west of england, wales, northern ireland. it will be turning back to rain is milder air moves in, should see up to 10 degrees there in plymouth by the end of the day. but it's much colder further north and east but at least dry until after dark. that weather works its way across the country saturday night preceded by some heavy snow across northern england and scotland for a while but it reverts back to rain as milder air moves in behind it. so a milder day on sunday, the rain clearing its way from the north—east of scotland, windy and quite a bit of cloud, more rain piling into southern and western areas. some of it will be heavy at times but look at those temperatures, much milder across the board, up to 13 degrees in the south.

this is bbc news: i'm victoria valentine with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. several people are killed in germany in a shooting at a jehovah's witnesses�* centre in hamburg. translation: i didn't realise was happening. i was filming with my phone and saw through the zoom that somebody was shooting a jehovah's witnesses. the british prime minister is set to meet president macron later on the agenda how to stop migrants crossing the english channel. a taste of freedom. we have a special report on the young afghan woman and her sisters under threat

from the taliban. and motorists are stuck in long queues as heavy snow causes travel problems across northern parts of the uk.