you are watching bbc news. now its time for newscast. hello, it's adam. and chris. last time we were set here we were with kent clark, the former chancellor of the, wading through the budget which had about 300 things in it. and the office for budget responsibility for public finance, which had about another 300 things in it. now that you've had the time to sleep on all of those things, put them under your pillow, what were your thoughts? so, we've been on day two today, thursday, of the budget. the big picture thing is that the think tanks,

westminsters�*s brains beyond government have been crunching through its, and they've concluded what many a newscaster will know, it's the kind of the bleeding obvious, really. they present that times are really tough for people that wages and living standards and housing income are squeezed and will be for while. the tax burden for the highest it has been for a while and will be for a while as well. as we were discussing on the last edition of the podcast. a lot of the budget was quite nerdy and in the weeds. there was a discussion around childcare in england that we talked about. the arguments about pensions for very well. doctors and others to train and encourage them to work and not retire and spend time in the golf course. since then, the political discussion has moved on a bit with the announcement we were talking about with tiktok. what is hope for within government and some of the

union resolution to some of the nhs disputes and strikes we've seen in the last few months.— disputes and strikes we've seen in the last few months. let's catch up with what jeremy _ the last few months. let's catch up with what jeremy hunt _ the last few months. let's catch up with what jeremy hunt said - the last few months. let's catch up with what jeremy hunt said on - the last few months. let's catch up with what jeremy hunt said on bc | the last few months. let's catch up | with what jeremy hunt said on bc on with whatjeremy hunt said on bc on thursday morning when he was asked about the tax cut in the highest in ages. about the tax cut in the highest in aces. ., . about the tax cut in the highest in aes. ., ., , about the tax cut in the highest in aces. ., . , ., ., ages. for a while the burden of tax will be higher— ages. for a while the burden of tax will be higher but _ ages. for a while the burden of tax will be higher but conservative - ages. for a while the burden of tax will be higher but conservative cut | will be higher but conservative cut taxes when we can and only last year. _ taxes when we can and only last year. for— taxes when we can and only last year, for the first time ever in this_ year, for the first time ever in this country, you can earn £1000 a month_ this country, you can earn £1000 a month without paying a penny of national— month without paying a penny of national tax insurance. that is a conservative reform which lightens the burden on some of our lowest paid _ the burden on some of our lowest aid. , , ., ., , the burden on some of our lowest aid. , ., , paid. krist you mentioned this sort of resolution _ paid. krist you mentioned this sort of resolution to _ paid. krist you mentioned this sort of resolution to the _ paid. krist you mentioned this sort of resolution to the yacht - of resolution to the yacht long—running dispute about pay between the government and nhs workers in england. which, on thursday she time reached a denouement. as a really pretentious word. . �* , denouement. as a really pretentious word. . v . denouement. as a really pretentious word. . �*, . . denouement. as a really pretentious word. . �*, ., ., ., word. that's a great word.

resolution, _ word. that's a great word. resolution, potentially. i word. that's a great word. - resolution, potentially. resolution on the negotiations they were having. on the negotiations they were havinu. , ., , ., ., , having. yes. lots of unions were talkin: having. yes. lots of unions were talking to _ having. yes. lots of unions were talking to the — having. yes. lots of unions were talking to the department - having. yes. lots of unions were talking to the department of- talking to the department of health for a few weeks now and were moving towards reaching some sort of arrangement since christmas. they have come out and said that yes they have come out and said that yes they have reached a mutual agreement between the leaders of the unions and most of them, and the department of health, of a 5% pay raise for the next financial year starting in april, plus a one off payments that won't be consolidated. it's literally one off and would be added into future pay settlements. the leaderships of most of the unions are recommended to the members that they should back it. compromise on both sides because of government had said they weren't reopening that pay settlements and they could say they aren't but they are putting more money towards paying this year as far as p is concerned. a pay system and that isn't as high as some unions wanted for this year but it

is comforting. compliments but the members get to the side. we are not there yet. there is the junior doctors disputes and a national union of education who are not at the place where they want to sign up for a deal. we see where things are going with the strikes but enough is quite over yet. it going with the strikes but enough is quite over yet-— quite over yet. it may not feel over as ou've quite over yet. it may not feel over as you've got _ quite over yet. it may not feel over as you've got a _ quite over yet. it may not feel over as you've got a very _ quite over yet. it may not feel over as you've got a very postponed - as you've got a very postponed appointments because of that action. louis the trooper with our first guest of the episode. 0ur louis the trooper with our first guest of the episode. our first guest of the episode. our first guest shadow chancellor. lots of things happen. yes guest shadow chancellor. lots of things happen-— things happen. yes i think i was here quite _ things happen. yes i think i was here quite a _ things happen. yes i think i was here quite a lot _ things happen. yes i think i was here quite a lot last _ things happen. yes i think i was here quite a lot last year. - things happen. yes i think i was i here quite a lot last year. number of many— here quite a lot last year. number of many budgets with some more dressers — of many budgets with some more dressers than others.— of many budgets with some more dressers than others. you've reacted to a lot of news _ dressers than others. you've reacted to a lot of news this _ dressers than others. you've reacted to a lot of news this week. _ dressers than others. you've reacted to a lot of news this week. the - to a lot of news this week. the straight and the deal on the interest—rate facade what your reaction to that? i interest-rate facade what your reaction to that?— interest-rate facade what your

reaction to that? i hope it does resolve the _ reaction to that? i hope it does resolve the industrial _ reaction to that? i hope it does resolve the industrial disputes | reaction to that? i hope it does i resolve the industrial disputes we have seen— resolve the industrial disputes we have seen over the last few months. remember— have seen over the last few months. remember last year. i was saying that the _ remember last year. i was saying that the government needed to get around _ that the government needed to get around the table with the public sector— around the table with the public sector workers and trade unions and the government said we aren't going to do that's — the government said we aren't going to do that's and the offer is offer. they— to do that's and the offer is offer. they did — to do that's and the offer is offer. they did get her on the table and i hope _ they did get her on the table and i hope that— they did get her on the table and i hope that this is the end of the industrial— hope that this is the end of the industrial unrest. if hope that this is the end of the industrial unrest.— hope that this is the end of the industrial unrest. if you hope that is is that reese _ industrial unrest. if you hope that is is that reese or _ industrial unrest. if you hope that is is that reese or carlos - industrial unrest. if you hope that is is that reese or carlos is - is is that reese or carlos is suggest you want the members of the units of the union support for it. that is their decision and i'm not going to — that is their decision and i'm not going to recommend to nurses and amulets— going to recommend to nurses and amulets workers what they decide to do what _ amulets workers what they decide to do what i _ amulets workers what they decide to do what i do hope that this industrial unrest can come to and end _ industrial unrest can come to and end if— industrial unrest can come to and end. , ., ., , industrial unrest can come to and end. ,., end. if you hope it comes to it and that means _ end. if you hope it comes to it and that means after _ end. if you hope it comes to it and that means after back— end. if you hope it comes to it and that means after back it? - end. if you hope it comes to it and that means after back it? in - end. if you hope it comes to it and | that means after back it? in means there has to _ that means after back it? in means there has to be _ that means after back it? in means there has to be a _ that means after back it? in means there has to be a couple _ that means after back it? in means i there has to be a couple months was up there has to be a couple months was up i there has to be a couple months was up i think— there has to be a couple months was up i think a _ there has to be a couple months was up i think a few union said they would — up i think a few union said they would recommend it but it's up to them _ would recommend it but it's up to them to— would recommend it but it's up to them to make that decision and i wouldn't — them to make that decision and i wouldn't want to make a recommendation to them one way or the other~ _ recommendation to them one way or the other. , , ., ~ the other. does it seem to like a reasonable _ the other. does it seem to like a reasonable middle _ the other. does it seem to like a reasonable middle ground -

the other. does it seem to like a - reasonable middle ground compromise? it was always meant to compromise on both sides _ it was always meant to compromise on both sides and that's why i think it was so _ both sides and that's why i think it was so frustrating last year when the government said we made our offer— the government said we made our offer and — the government said we made our offer and won't reopen any of it. everyone — offer and won't reopen any of it. everyone said you've got to it because — everyone said you've got to it because that is how disputes are resolved — because that is how disputes are resolved. eventually, they did do exactly— resolved. eventually, they did do exactly that. if they're going around — exactly that. if they're going around the table early on they could have avoided all of this and the destruction, particularly in our hospitals _ destruction, particularly in our hospitals and operations and procedures and appointments. we could _ procedures and appointments. we could have — procedures and appointments. we could have not had all of that and heating _ could have not had all of that and heating a — could have not had all of that and beating a better because of it. let's _ beating a better because of it. let's talk— beating a better because of it. let's talk about the budget. what is so bad about letting people save as much as they want into their pensions over their lifetime? that is what the government is now going to let people do. is what the government is now going to let people do— to let people do. because it requires _ to let people do. because it requires a _ to let people do. because it requires a big _ to let people do. because it requires a big tax _ to let people do. because it requires a big tax break. . to let people do. because it - requires a big tax break. usually, when _ requires a big tax break. usually, when we — requires a big tax break. usually, when we earn money we are tax on it at 20 _ when we earn money we are tax on it at 20 or— when we earn money we are tax on it at 20 or 40 _ when we earn money we are tax on it at 20 or 40 or 45%. what the government are proposing is that you can put— government are proposing is that you can put in_ government are proposing is that you can put in as — government are proposing is that you can put in as much money of your

lifetime _ can put in as much money of your lifetime tax—free into a pension and the cost _ lifetime tax—free into a pension and the cost of— lifetime tax—free into a pension and the cost of that and the cost of changes — the cost of that and the cost of changes brought in this week isjust over it _ changes brought in this week isjust over £1 billion. the changes they have _ over £1 billion. the changes they have made — over £1 billion. the changes they have made would only benefit the people _ have made would only benefit the people with 1% biggest pension savings — people with 1% biggest pension savings in the country. at the same time _ savings in the country. at the same time we _ savings in the country. at the same time we know that many people, well over a _ time we know that many people, well over a million have reduced what they're _ over a million have reduced what they're saving into pensions because they're _ they're saving into pensions because they're struggling with the cost of living _ they're struggling with the cost of living and — they're struggling with the cost of living and taxes for the average family— living and taxes for the average family from april are going to go up by an— family from april are going to go up by an average of £650. i don't think the right— by an average of £650. i don't think the right priority this week was, across— the right priority this week was, across the — the right priority this week was, across the board, a tax break for the top _ across the board, a tax break for the top i%~ — across the board, a tax break for the top 1%. 0f across the board, a tax break for the top 1%. of course we need to resolve the — the top 1%. of course we need to resolve the doctors issue and wes streeting — resolve the doctors issue and wes streeting and labour have been seen there needs to be a fix for doctors so that— there needs to be a fix for doctors so that they worked more over time and they— so that they worked more over time and they don't retire so early because of the punitive pension charges — because of the punitive pension charges. 50 because of the punitive pension charaes. ., , ., ,

charges. so doctors can have better ensions charges. so doctors can have better pensions are _ charges. so doctors can have better pensions are better _ charges. so doctors can have better pensions are better tax _ charges. so doctors can have better pensions are better tax tensions - charges. so doctors can have better pensions are better tax tensions forj pensions are better tax tensions for the before better than everyone else question mark this wouldn't be unique to doctors.— question mark this wouldn't be unique to doctors. there is already secial unique to doctors. there is already special arrangements _ unique to doctors. there is already special arrangements for _ unique to doctors. there is already special arrangements forjudges i special arrangements for judges pensions — special arrangements for judges pensions and special arrangements forjudges pensions and you could make a fix for doctors — pensions and you could make a fix for doctors because that is where there's— for doctors because that is where there's a — for doctors because that is where there's a big problem. know because of the _ there's a big problem. know because of the lack— there's a big problem. know because of the lack of nhs workforce planning over years now there aren't enough _ planning over years now there aren't enough doctors in the health service and as— enough doctors in the health service and as a _ enough doctors in the health service and as a result there are 7 million people _ and as a result there are 7 million people waiting for procedures sup that has— people waiting for procedures sup that has to be cleared. if we can -et that has to be cleared. if we can get more — that has to be cleared. if we can get more doctors to do more operations more quickly that would help resolve that issue but we do not to _ help resolve that issue but we do not to need to do this for everybody that has— not to need to do this for everybody that has a _ not to need to do this for everybody that has a million pound plus in pension— that has a million pound plus in pension schemes. if that has a million pound plus in pension schemes.— that has a million pound plus in pension schemes. if there was an easy speech _ pension schemes. if there was an easy speech that _ pension schemes. if there was an easy speech that was _ pension schemes. if there was an easy speech that was more - pension schemes. if there was an | easy speech that was more sector specific at the time when the government could have us save money why would he not do that? good cuestion. why would he not do that? good question. should _ why would he not do that? good question. should be _ why would he not do that? good question. should be to - why would he not do that? good question. should be to the - why would he not do that? good question. should be to the chance not me _ question. should be to the chance not me. the chance to sit in a pigment— not me. the chance to sit in a pigment yesterday that since becoming chancellor he has decided that this _

becoming chancellor he has decided that this is _ becoming chancellor he has decided that this is a bigger issue than 'ust that this is a bigger issue than just doctors and he wants to fix this across _ just doctors and he wants to fix this across the board. no. more than half of— this across the board. no. more than half of the _ this across the board. no. more than half of the people who have £1 million — half of the people who have £1 million plus in pensions i believe are in_ million plus in pensions i believe are in the — million plus in pensions i believe are in the private sector. some of them _ are in the private sector. some of them might— are in the private sector. some of them might be up to save huge amounts — them might be up to save huge amounts in pensions if you build up amounts in pensions if you build up a pension— amounts in pensions if you build up a pension part of £2 million it means— a pension part of £2 million it means that you pay £250,000 less in taxes _ means that you pay £250,000 less in taxes than _ means that you pay £250,000 less in taxes than under the arrangements that exist _ taxes than under the arrangements that exist today. i don't think that is the _ that exist today. i don't think that is the right— that exist today. i don't think that is the right parity. why that exist today. i don't think that is the right parity.— is the right parity. why should a 'udue or is the right parity. why should a judge or doctor— is the right parity. why should a judge or doctor have _ is the right parity. why should a judge or doctor have a - is the right parity. why should a judge or doctor have a better. is the right parity. why should a| judge or doctor have a better tax arrangement as far as their pensions are concerned then someone in the private sector?— private sector? there is a particular— private sector? there is a particular issue _ private sector? there is a particular issue or - private sector? there is a particular issue or on - private sector? there is a i particular issue or on doctors private sector? there is a - particular issue or on doctors at the moment and with the clear the backlog _ the moment and with the clear the backlou. ., ., , ., the moment and with the clear the loacklog-_ it'si backlog. how would it be fair? it's about a good _ backlog. how would it be fair? it's about a good use _ backlog. how would it be fair? it's about a good use of _ backlog. how would it be fair? it's about a good use of taxpayers - backlog. how would it be fair? it's i about a good use of taxpayers money and i about a good use of taxpayers money and i think— about a good use of taxpayers money and i think it's a good use of taxpavers _ and i think it's a good use of taxpayers money at the moment to get doctors _ taxpayers money at the moment to get doctors to— taxpayers money at the moment to get doctors to do over time and choose to stay— doctors to do over time and choose to stay and — doctors to do over time and choose to stay and work a bit longer than they currently doing. we would make that fix _ they currently doing. we would make that fix because it is good value

for money— that fix because it is good value for money for taxpayers and that is what _ for money for taxpayers and that is what the _ for money for taxpayers and that is what the chancellor has to make a decision— what the chancellor has to make a decision about in the end. if decision about in the end. if somebody were work in earns a portion and makes a fortune in tax they should pay more tax. it’s portion and makes a fortune in tax they should pay more tax. it's about olitical they should pay more tax. it's about political trances _ they should pay more tax. it's about political trances in _ they should pay more tax. it's about political trances in the _ they should pay more tax. it's about political trances in the end. - they should pay more tax. it's about political trances in the end. if - they should pay more tax. it's about political trances in the end. if you i political trances in the end. if you make _ political trances in the end. if you make a _ political trances in the end. if you make a cut — political trances in the end. if you make a cut on tax you have to decide where _ make a cut on tax you have to decide where that— make a cut on tax you have to decide where that money should go. i think that if— where that money should go. i think that if you're going to reduce the tax burdens on people it should be those _ tax burdens on people it should be those on _ tax burdens on people it should be those on more mondays incomes who were facing. — those on more mondays incomes who were facing, as i said before, an increase — were facing, as i said before, an increase in— were facing, as i said before, an increase in taxes. both because of the fiscal— increase in taxes. both because of the fiscal drag. people being dragged into paying higher taxes because the tax presses haven't kept in nine with— tax presses haven't kept in nine with the — tax presses haven't kept in nine with the information and also because it's going to go on in april~ — because it's going to go on in april~ you _ because it's going to go on in april. you have to make. i�*m because it's going to go on in april. you have to make. i'm glad ou april. you have to make. i'm glad you made — april. you have to make. i'm glad you made in _ april. you have to make. i'm glad you made in fiscal _ april. you have to make. i'm glad you made in fiscal drag. - april. you have to make. i'm glad you made in fiscal drag. one -

april. you have to make. i'm glad you made in fiscal drag. one of i april. you have to make. i'm gladl you made in fiscal drag. one of my favourite things at this time of year. what is labourers position on that? would you be increasing those income tax raised thresholds every yeari income tax raised thresholds every year i know more of those freezes which raise money question mark i want taxes on working people to be as low as they can stop but the public finances at the moment are in a real mess. i public finances at the moment are in a real mess-— a real mess. i can't make a commitment _ a real mess. i can't make a commitment to _ a real mess. i can't make a commitment to just - a real mess. i can't make a| commitment to just reverse a real mess. i can't make a - commitment to just reverse this. because — commitment to just reverse this. because the money isjust not there in the _ because the money isjust not there in the public finances. it's why we said — in the public finances. it's why i've said that my number one priority— i've said that my number one priority and keir starmer has set out the — priority and keir starmer has set out the missions of an incoming labour— out the missions of an incoming labour government. the number mission — labour government. the number mission is — labour government. the number mission is to have the highest sustained _ mission is to have the highest sustained growth in the g7 mission is to have the highest sustained growth in the 67 because it is only— sustained growth in the 67 because it is only through growth that we -ot it is only through growth that we got the — it is only through growth that we got the money to improve living standards— got the money to improve living standards keep taxes low and have money _ standards keep taxes low and have money for — standards keep taxes low and have money for the public services. 30 money for the public services. sc you're money for the public services. you're not money for the public services. ’ir you're not saying money for the public services. 5r you're not saying when i'm chancellor i am from his income tax would no more fiscal drag. you will abolish this project? i

would no more fiscal drag. you will abolish this project?— abolish this pro'ect? i would like to say that — abolish this pro'ect? i would like to say that but — abolish this project? i would like to say that but that _ abolish this project? i would like to say that but that requires - abolish this project? i would like i to say that but that requires money being _ to say that but that requires money being available and growing in the economy — being available and growing in the economy. that's why i put focus on the plan _ economy. that's why i put focus on the plan for— economy. that's why i put focus on the plan for growth.— economy. that's why i put focus on the plan for growth. when you were on lloris show _ the plan for growth. when you were on lloris show on _ the plan for growth. when you were on lloris show on sunday _ the plan for growth. when you were on lloris show on sunday or - the plan for growth. when you were on lloris show on sunday or if - on lloris show on sunday or if you send is a go. i noticed some people unsocial people picking up what you said. that's what i said in the conference in 2021. i set out the fiscal rules that an incoming labour government would abide by and that would be getting to grips with day—to—day spending, getting debt down as a share of gdp and then subjected that come investing in the things that will grow our economy. but if i look at the public finance numbers, there is the room to make those investments and actually,

a good chancellor has got to know when to say no. and i'm absolutely willing and happy to say to people, as i've just said on the fiscal drag issue, i can't promise to do everything i want to do straightaway, i can't make spending commitments without saying where the money is going to come from. but also a good chancellor need to know when to say yes to good investments that could boost our productivity and growth and i do take inspiration from what president biden is doing in the us to boost investment and growth into the us. you know, turning the rust belt into an electric vehicle belt, attracting good manufacturing jobs to the us, getting that inward investment. and my real worry is that the uk is losing out in this global race for the jobs and industries of the future which is why that green prosperity plan i announced in september 2021 is even more relevant and even more important today, because other countries are now stealing a march on us. how often do you say no to your colleagues,

relative to when you say yes? i think my colleagues respect me, i hope they respect me for it. the easiest thing would be, do we want more money in schools, childcare, in the nhs. so many things are not working properly, of course i want to make investments in our public services. of course i want to reduce the tax burden on working people. but liz truss and kwasi kwarteng last september, and we spoke about this at the time, made a load of unfunded tax cuts and they crashed the economy. i'm not going to make either unfunded tax cuts or unfunded spending commitments, because that is the way to ruin. and i will always have, at the heart of my economic strategy and policies, that rock of economic and financial stability. but that's the fundamental truth, isn't it, if you guys

are in government in a year or 18 months�* time, what you are going to inherit where we have a tax burden where it is, generationally high, public spending where it is, generationally high. the room for manoeuvre in terms of what you guys or indeed if the conservatives win, what they can do, to do things and do things that are significantly different is really constrained? i mean in terms of what you can promise that would be substantially different given where taxing and spending is? it's absolutely true to say there are big constraints on what an incoming labour government will be able to do. we might not be able to do everything we want as quickly as we want. keir starmerand me have both said that. politics is about choices. let me give you a couple of examples of different choices that i would have made had it been a labour budget. i've already spoken about growth and the importance of those industries of the future, but if you look, for example, at what's happening with energy bills and the profits of energy companies, it was january 2022 that i first called for a windfall tax on the big profits that the energy giants were making. at the time rishi sunak

as chancellor resisted that, said it was the wrong policy. eventually they came in with an energy profits levy. but it had so many holes in it it meant that shell didn't pay a penny of that energy profits levy last year. so i said that labour would fix the holes in that, get rid of those loopholes and we believed it could raise another £10 billion and we would use that to help people said the cost of living. the government, i welcome the fact that the government said yesterday they will freeze gas and electricity bills for a further three months, but instead of funding that through tax receipts or through borrowing, they could have funded it by asking the energy giants, who are making windfalls of war to pay more. so that is a different choice that labour would make compared with the conservatives.

would you give the government credit for wrapping up that issue over the weekend? i welcome the fact hsbc have taken on those clients and i hope it's the end of the matter. i haven't been following what has been going on at credit suisse this week. hopefully now the swiss government has stepped in with a huge deal with credit suisse it has calm things down. it does look like that. i said to the government they need to look at the impact of rapidly rising interest rates on financial stability. we have to let you go because there is a takeaway curry waiting for you at home.

i am looking forward to that. i think we discussed what i was going to drink the last time i was on your show. what are you washing the curry down with? a glass of red wine. garlic naan or plain? plain. it depends what you are doing the next day i think. thank you very much. thank you very much, i enjoyed it. shall we go back to the start of that conversation with rachel reeves, which is the deal struck between the department of health and the unions representing nhs workers who have been on strike, nurses, paramedics and all sorts of people who work in hospitals who basically are not doctors and other bits of the nhs as well. we can chat to somebody at the heart of those in head we can chat to somebody at the heart of those negotiations

of health at unison. hello, sarah. hello, nice to be here. i remember the brexit negotiations they were physically tiring for the people involved, late night pizza stuff, has not been your experience of these negotiations? no pizzas, but lots of late nights. it has been an intensive process, really fascinating and i am sure at some point after i have slept some of it will seem like fun. but it definitely stretched the robustness of the relationships on all sides. really, that sounds like there might have been some table thumping? not table thumping, but the health sector is dominated by trade unions are full of female members. we had a lot of women negotiators in the room. just thinking about our trade union side, the vast majority of us were women. when we walk into those rooms, there were seven of us on our side negotiating

from the health trade unions. we know that we are representing 1.3 million health workers and you name checked a few of the groups that got lots of the airtime during the dispute, nurses and paramedics. actually, this is about the whole health team. 0n picket lines up and down the country there have been cleaners, health care assistants, porters, dieticians, physiotherapists. you know, this is the whole health team. the most recent batch of strike mandates included workers in the nhs blood and transplant service. a vital service that often goes unnoticed. i think we take our responsibilities to talk for all of those people very seriously. isn't it true both sides have budged, there have been compromises and that is how we have ended up

where we are, both sides have to get to a place where either side can say, look, we were right all along, we had to do what we did, our approach was pragmatic and we think this is a victory? it is the art of negotiation, everybody walks away feeling a little bit disgruntled. there are definitely things i can look at in this package and say, it could have been better, the lump sum, if you look at the way the lump sum is constructed, it is a decent chunk of cash and it represents an additional, i think it is heading around £3 billion worth of extra investment in the health workforce, which is not to be sniffed at. when you look at the payments, they are decent sums of money so stretching from just over £1600 to nearly £4000 and with most of the registered occupations getting over £2000. that is a considerable sum, but you look at the way

it is constructed and in the cost of living crisis, a lot of people would look at that and say why those figures not going the other way around. have you demanded guarantees from the government they don't pay for this by cutting money from other bits from the nhs so the sums add up for them? that was clear in the negotiations, there was no intention to cut health services in order to pay for this. someone in government or saying to me, we won't cut front line services. but it seems to me that is a fuzzy concept as to what that is? exactly, the devil will be in the detail. you were talking about the stamina required on all sides for the longevity of these negotiations, what was the latest at night you ended up working until, in the room or digitally in the room negotiating with the government? the talks were constructed with a range of different types of sessions.

it was a really interesting process and we were using the nice conference rooms at the top of the department of health, which used to be the secretary of state's office. with the cctv camera? with the camera. there was no kissing as far as i witness. they were really nice rooms, really well set up so we had sessions chaired by the secretary of state. normally two or three of those a day to cover the points in progress where we would have updates on where we got to... where you there gone midnight? not gone midnight, last night was very, very late, but not quite gone midnight. it was very late when i got home but didn't leave after midnight on any night. my family have not seen much of me. i have not been much help

with the gcse revision this week. how would you describe steve barclay? you talked about stamina, he is clearly somebody with lots of energy. he say he uses stamina? you say he oozes stamina? laughter. i have not thought about that. i wouldn't say he uses it in any context, particularly when you connect it with any individuals, individuals using is probably a bit icky. he was very energetic and he was obviously very committed... i sort of expected the meetings would be that he would delegate that role to the nhs employers, who the department, they contract them to deliver that kind of bargaining for the health service. so it was quite surprising to me that he was going to take personal responsibility.

you would have to ask the employers to see what they would have given us and see if we could get a better deal. still negotiating when you have a deal. you are recommending your members should vote for it, and people have questions and other people saying i would have liked some more. actually, it is still not really pay keeping up with inflation, even with an inflation plus pay increase for next year. sarah, we'll let you have a well earned rest. thank very much. if you have had a rachel reeve style curry along side this episode, i hope you enjoyed it. goodbye.

hello there. spring daffodils in full bloom now right across the country, but what we could do with is some spring like weather. well, for some, we had that today. in fact, in northeast england it was a mild and often quite sunny day as depicted by this weather watch watcher in northumberland. it was a different story, though, elsewhere. we did have some sharp thundery downpours, a rainbow in the sky across falkirk with some threatening looking skies here. now, if we take a look back at the cloud and the rain radar from recent hours, you can see just how widespread those showers have been today, but, at the same time, there's also been some sunny spells as well. and that's the story as we go through the night, tonight and into tomorrow with low pressure anchored out to the west, feeding in plenty of showers from the west through the night. so, we keep quite a lot of cloud around that's going to prevent those temperatures from falling too far. but it does mean a messy mixture of showers as we go through the night. those temperatures will hold up

at around 5—9 degrees for most. we start off tomorrow on a rather cloudy note, for many, a mild note and, once again, it's going to be a case of sunny spells and scattered showers. light winds as well on saturday, so i suspect if you catch a shower, they could linger for quite some time. they should be fairly interspersed. top temperatures around 14 or 15 degrees, not out of the question. but yes, some of those showers, once again could be heavy and thundery. more persistent rain into northern ireland and western scotland by the latter stages of the afternoon. here we'll look at around 9 or 10 degrees, but noticeably colder in the northern isles. and as that area of low pressure gradually starts to ease away, the winds will pick up through the evening and overnight and swing back around to a northerly. and that means on the back edge, we could see a little bit of snow across the northern isles. temperatures to greet us first thing on sunday morning, a little bit lower. so a chillier start, but hopefully a crystal clear blue sky sunshine at morning on sunday. very nice indeed.

gradually, we'll see cloud developing out to the west as rain will start to push it in by the end of the afternoon. but not a bad mothering sunday in prospect. temperatures generally between 8—14 degrees, once again, a little bit cooler in the northern isles. so just to sum up this weekend, saturday will be a case of sunny spells and scattered showers better on sunday.

this is bbc news with the headlines... the international criminal court issues arrest warrants for vladimir putin and his children's commissioner — accusing them of war crimes over the unlawful deportation of children. the judges issued arrest warrants. the prosecution depends on international cooperation. china's president, xijinping, is to make a state visit to russia next week — for talks with president putin. turkey will start the process of ratifying finland's nato membership bid as the leaders of the two countries meet. and a review of london's metropolitan police is expected to heavily criticise the force for racist, sexist and homophobic behaviour.