this is bbc news. the headlines: the international criminal court has issued arrest warrants for vladimir putin and his children's commissioner, accusing them of war crimes over the unlawful deportation of children from ukraine to russia. it's the first time the court has ordered the arrest of a prominent serving political leader. china has announced that its president, xijinping, will visit russia next week to hold talks with president putin. beijing and moscow say the two men will discuss strategic cooperation. beijing is currently promoting a plan it says can bring a negotiated end to the war in ukraine. the head of nato has welcomed turkey's decision to start, the process of ratifying finland's application to join the bloc. butjens stoltenberg stressed it was important that sweden

too joined as soon as possible. president erdogan said sweden still hadn't handed over people he called terrorists. now on bbc news — the media show: writing a first draft of history. my my guest today has covered some of the most defining stories of our time stop gary younge briefly became part of nelson mandela's entourage, joined revellers as president obama was elected, and has covered mock els two, gay marriage, brexit, the windrush scandal, and the black lives matter. he left as a full—time journalist to become professor of sociology at the university managers. although he continues write articles for various publications and books. his new one is a collection of his journalism called dispatches from the diaspora. gary younge,

welcome to the media show. let's go back to some of where it all began. you studied french and russian in edinburgh, then in yourfinal year you received a scott trust bursary from the guardian to studyjournalism. i think you were quite clear at that point that you wanted to be a common —— columnist. why? that you wanted to be a common -- columnist. why?— that you wanted to be a common -- columnist. why? because they had been very _ -- columnist. why? because they had been very politically - had been very politically involved and my entry into writing was partly because i'd studied languages and study to be an interpreter and i'd like to to manipulate words, but it was also because they had been very involved politically, almost precociously, and i thought i had things to say. and what i didn't realise at the time was the degree to which reporting, running out and talking to people, finding out, and all of that, is the

nuts and bolts of everything, including column writing. as someone who hadn't done an awful lot ofjournalism and they didn't have a student newspaper for the first couple of years we were there, my sense of being a journalist was about writing my thoughts and, of course, because i was 21 or 22 i also assume that everyone would be interested in my thoughts, which, when a look at it now is a little bit fanciful.— it now is a little bit fanciful. ., , , ., it now is a little bit fanciful. ., ,, ., ., fanciful. it does show a certain _ fanciful. it does show a certain kind _ fanciful. it does show a certain kind of - fanciful. it does show a i certain kind of confidence, which a really late, reading your book it made me wonder how much was your mum's influence. a lot of it had to do with my mum and my upbringing. my mum was born in barbados, came to britain as a 19—year—old, was first a nurse and then became a teacher. had three kids, then my dad left when i was 15 months old, was the youngest. and so she had this project. we were her project. we were kids

first of all. she is to pad around the living room with me on her feet and around the living room with me on herfeet and play music around the living room with me on her feet and play music and say they are playing our song. and it was this kind of this act of hope and belief that this is the early 1970s, britain is in a pretty dull place and also literally because there were kind of blackouts and things but also racially and otherwise. and my mum had this sense that, well, we're just mum had this sense that, well, we'rejust going to mum had this sense that, well, we're just going to have to imagine the world that you are going to live in and we are going to live in and we are going to live in and we are going to have to imagine a place in your world that we have no evidence of. you get your education and then you make your choices. bud your education and then you make your choices.- your education and then you make your choices. and if you want to be — make your choices. and if you want to be a _ make your choices. and if you want to be a columnist, - make your choices. and if you want to be a columnist, be i make your choices. and if you want to be a columnist, be a l want to be a columnist, be a columnist!— want to be a columnist, be a columnist! ., ~ ., ., ., columnist! you know, that would have been _ columnist! you know, that would have been so _ columnist! you know, that would have been so far _ columnist! you know, that would have been so far removed - columnist! you know, that would have been so far removed from l have been so far removed from anything we would have imagined at that time and the notion that you can make a living

writing was actually not something that occurred to me until very late.— until very late. let's fast forward _ until very late. let's fast forward a _ until very late. let's fast forward a bit _ until very late. let's fast forward a bit from - until very late. let's fast forward a bit from then, | until very late. let's fast . forward a bit from then, but presumably is still not making much money writing, 1994, you are sent by the guardian to south africa to govern the country's first democratic elections. why did they choose you and what was it like to be a witness to such historic change?— a witness to such historic chance? , . change? well, they chose me because they _ change? well, they chose me because they were, _ change? well, they chose me because they were, first - change? well, they chose me because they were, first of i because they were, first of all, i had got a bursary from the guardian so i was known. and i was — when i... when i interviewed for the bursary are talked about my work in the anti—apartheid movement to alan rusbridger who would become the editor. and it was a typical liberal dilemma. they knew that there were stories that white journalists couldn't get in south africa in run—up to the elections, but they hadn't employed enough black journalist that they want to

descend, actually barely any that they want to descend. so they looked around for someone who is young, cheap, and black to send them to see what was out there. and i was the youngest, cheapest, blackest thing in the office. go out owen. but then south africa is quite a difficult place to navigate if you can't drive, so i would get lifts from people and eye ended up getting a lift with a tv crew who were doing an official account of mandela. they dropped me at a gas station, said there are some others coming through to pick you up and they were mandela's bodyguards. and, frankly, a amused them and made it my business to amuse them. they had been involved in the anti—apartheid movement, i had studied in the soviet union, as had they. they would let me drive around with them. and so a stumbled onto this kind of front row seat and it was the most stunning thing to be around. now, bearing in mind i

had been involved in the anti—apartheid movement, i had picketed the embassy with my mum acat —— south african embassy. when apartheid was still going on. and so to be in some ramshackle stadium in the middle of nowhere, because that is where apartheid put black people, and is the kind of old toothless women and young barefoot children dancing around waiting in the cavalcade coming up and seeing it kicking up coming up and seeing it kicking up the dust tens of miles away and the cheering starting any waving in the screening and the ovulating and the mandela and just to be in that moment and to be 25 and to just well, well, it was incredible. and how did the _ well, it was incredible. and how did the peace - well, it was incredible. and how did the peace go - well, it was incredible. and how did the peace go down? well, it was incredible. and - how did the peace go down? the how did the peace go down? tia: corresponded at how did the peace go down? ti2 corresponded at the time, david beresford, a lovely man who unfortunately died not so long ago, he said it's all here, but it's alljumbled up. and you

spent too long that you can't see it anymore. he set me up for a drink see it anymore. he set me up fora drink and see it anymore. he set me up for a drink and he said you're just going to have to stay up all night and just kind of, you know, with it into shape. so i did, and by the time i've found it, i couldn't really see what i'd done. and the piece was going through the system at the guardian and a managed to get a kind of connection from a computer and i started seeing all these notes coming through from colleagues and then alan rusbridger, the deputy editor and peter preston, which is a big moment, all sort of saying this is a wonderful piece and well done and, you know... relief. i wanted to start crying, wasjust relief. i wanted to start crying, was just very, relief. i wanted to start crying, wasjust very, very relief of which there are no words. ~ 2, relief of which there are no words. ~ . ,., relief of which there are no words. ~ . , , words. we have met some pretty incredible people _ words. we have met some pretty incredible people in _ words. we have met some pretty incredible people in your- incredible people in your career, not least, how did you end up getting drunk in my angelo's limousine? for end up getting drunk in my angelo's limousine? for that we

have la traffic? _ angelo's limousine? for that we have la traffic? i _ angelo's limousine? for that we have la traffic? i had _ angelo's limousine? for that we have la traffic? i had 45 - have la traffic? i had 45 minutes with her. when the 45 minutes with her. when the 45 minutes were over she said just hang back and then she took me for lunch and then she had something to do so she got me a room in the hotel, and then we went to her events and then on the way back from the events there was this huge la traffic jam, it was like a big car park and we were in her limo and she said, she had this kind of purring voice, she said "would you like some whiskey, mr yeung? " and then i said that would be nice and her assistant said "would you like ice and staff?" and she said "a little bit of ice and a lot of stuff. and then there were huge with is that came out and then there was more whiskey and then there was more whiskey and then there was more. it was a big traffic jam. by the time i'd got out of the car i was pretty hemmant and i think she was to,

although she was in better shape and i was, she could bring me under the table. and i'd just think, you know, i don't need many days like this in my life, one day this will carry me on for quite a long time. ., ., ., ~ u, time. you moved to america in 1996 and ended _ time. you moved to america in 1996 and ended up _ time. you moved to america in 1996 and ended up spending i time. you moved to america in i 1996 and ended up spending more than half your career working there for the guardian. was it initially difficult as an outsider to understand what made that country to? it was. the some _ made that country to? it was. the some things _ made that country to? it was. the some things it _ made that country to? it was. the some things it always - made that country to? it was. l the some things it always was, to be honest, guns. i'm never quite understood, although, you know, i got further on that i was at the beginning. and, you know, in a way, as a foreign correspondent, not understanding is a bit of a gift, really, because then you can go and find out. but it was like anthropology, really, you could kinda prod around and it would work quite well in moments of kind of where other americanjournalists might moments of kind of where other american journalists might not

want to go, you know, having steak with a bunch of trumpet republicans, and it would be funny, why do you think that? and it would be my m.o. foran awful lot of interviews. but as time goes on, my wife is american, i had two kids there, you become invested and it stops being anthropology and it starts, you have got skin in the game. and you start thinking "that's my kids you are talking about. that's my neighbourhood you were talking about." even if it is not directly your neighbourhood. you start knowing people here as friends, knowing people who are documented and can't go to their parents' funeral. and their pa rents' funeral. and thenit their parents' funeral. and then it stops becoming interesting, perse, and interesting, per se, and becomes interesting, perse, and becomes quite personal. you

covered so — becomes quite personal. you covered so many _ becomes quite personal. you covered so many important stories while you are in america, there are the election of president obama, occupy wall street, the tea party, i think reporting on hurricane katrina over the course of the s10 is our view, why is that? i’zre our view, why is that? i've felt that — our view, why is that? i've felt that in — our view, why is that? i've felt that in that _ our view, why is that? i've felt that in that moment i our view, why is that? t2 felt that in that moment the contradictions of america race and class were laid bare. there were all sorts of ways in which they could be financed, anybody who tries hard enough can do this or that and, you know, the civil rights act was a long time ago, even though it wasn't, and we have a quality now and so on. obama was known by this stage, but there was no sense you would ever be president, it would be a really weird idea then. and so to see who could escape and who couldn't escape and why they couldn't escape and why they couldn't escape, is a public

disaster so you have a public response, but this was a private response, a privatised response. so if you didn't have a car, if you didn't have the money for a motel, and it came at the end of the month, if you hadn't been paid, you couldn't go. and so to see that all washed up and then to see the response is a moment where michael brown, the head of the federal emergency management says, we are seeing people that we didn't know existed. and i thought never a truer word has been said. it was hard with the book, because it's an anthology, you have to kind of pick a piece and go with it. and i actually went to new orleans several times over a couple of years after hurricane katrina and it was very hard to pick one. it was such a devastating occurrence and it was one of those moments where you couldn'tjust gloss over it. and so kind of the american media in that moment kind of

discovered race and class in a way that teenagers kind of discover set, you know, it was kind of careless and urgent and just a little bit too eager —— sex. t just a little bit too eager -- sex. a, just a little bit too eager -- sex. ., a, , , ., ~ sex. i wanted do speak specifically _ sex. i wanted do speak specifically on - sex. i wanted do speak specifically on race, . sex. i wanted do speak| specifically on race, you sex. i wanted do speak - specifically on race, you wrote in your farewell piece to america about a period of protracted regional conflict that you witnessed including murder of honour blackman, trevin martin, eric garner, what was that experience like reporting on those stories? there is a really interesting thing that happened with black lives matter in particular, which was that it wasn't and it hasn't been that more black people were being killed by the police, it was that, for whatever reason, partly new technology we can take pictures and distribute and amplify, people were paying attention in a way they had before —— trayvon martin. and it problem

sized an adage that they at journalism school, which was "when a dog bites a man that's not a story, but when a man bites a dog that is a story." and i started do you think during that time, you know, sometimes, actually, news asks the dogs and why do the same people keep getting bitten and what can we do to control these dogs, but actually black people had been living with this for decades and it wasn't news, because the people who decide what's new is decided that it wasn't newsworthy. for what's new is decided that it wasn't newsworthy.- what's new is decided that it wasn't newsworthy. for that was a failure of _ wasn't newsworthy. for that was a failure of news _ wasn't newsworthy. for that was a failure of news journalism? - a failure of news journalism? absolutely a failure of news journalism. and for reasons, i'm not entirely sure why it became news, and you don't have to be black to get this, but if

you are black, not typically, yourson you are black, not typically, your son who was big for your age... in your son who was big for your ate. .. , a, your son who was big for your ate. .. , ., , ., your son who was big for your ate... ,., a, a, age... in terms of your fear of what might — age... in terms of your fear of what might happen _ age... in terms of your fear of what might happen to - age... in terms of your fear of what might happen to your . age... in terms of your fear of. what might happen to your son. yeah, it was a good example of it is no longer anthropology. there was an incident in the park nearby where my son was having a water fight with other kids and he slashed this woman and she started screaming at him. i went up to her and asked why she is screaming at my son and then she started screaming at me and i asked her to stop screaming at me and she said who are you? you are nobody, thatis who are you? you are nobody, that is who you are! i stood back thinking ok, ok, ok, this is where we. i had literally flown up from ferguson that warning. he flown up from ferguson that warnint. 2. flown up from ferguson that warnint. ., , a, , a, warning. he left a year before trump was — warning. he left a year before trump was elected _ warning. he left a year before trump was elected and - warning. he left a year before trump was elected and we - warning. he left a year before i trump was elected and we have seen more polarisation since and do the media have a role to play is exacerbating those

problems? tt play is exacerbating those problems?— play is exacerbating those roblems? a, a, problems? if you look at fox news or nbc— problems? if you look at fox news or nbc or _ problems? if you look at fox news or nbc or the - problems? if you look at fox news or nbc or the way - problems? if you look at fox news or nbc or the way in i problems? if you look at fox - news or nbc or the way in which you have cable television, kind of amplifying division in major ways, to that end, certainly, yes. beyond that, i think that the kind of divisions are, aren't true. i think the divisions would be there anywhere. i think there is a racialfault anywhere. i think there is a racial fault line anywhere. i think there is a racialfault line and i racial fault line and i think... racialfault line and i think... probably in the next decade or maybe more and you can see they are really feeling that in places like arizona, new mexico, and struggling and some of them struggling to get their heads around that. and then economic fallout because wages have been stagnant felt

kind of half a century. poverty was a serious, serious problem for an awful lot of people. put those two things together and you have the ingredients for division. whether the media have been responsible or not. the media was able to amplify, particularly tv media, amplify and exaggerate, to the point where people knew different facts about the world and so having a conversation with someone was difficult because you say it is tuesday and they say it is wednesday, and well, thatis say it is wednesday, and well, that is difficult to sort that out if that is what you are dealing with.— out if that is what you are dealing with. out if that is what you are dealint with. a, ., ~ ., dealing with. you talk about tv and ou dealing with. you talk about tv and you continue _ dealing with. you talk about tv and you continue to _ dealing with. you talk about tv and you continue to report - dealing with. you talk about tv| and you continue to report from usa in tv documentaries and in 2017, an interview of you interviewing the american white supremacist went viral. you interviewing the american white supremacist went viral.- supremacist went viral. you are really proud _ supremacist went viral. you are really proud to _ supremacist went viral. you are really proud to be _ supremacist went viral. you are really proud to be racist - supremacist went viral. you are really proud to be racist and - supremacist went viral. you are really proud to be racist and a l really proud to be racist and a

bigot? really proud to be racist and a bitot? �* , a, ., really proud to be racist and a bitot? �* ,., .,, really proud to be racist and a bitot? �* ,., a,, a, bigot? i'm proud to be a white man. if africans _ bigot? i'm proud to be a white man. if africans were - bigot? i'm proud to be a white man. if africans were not - man. if africans were not existed, _ man. if africans were not existed, the world would almost be the _ existed, the world would almost be the same because we are the genius _ be the same because we are the genius that drives that. how do you deny— genius that drives that. how do you deny that? how can you really— you deny that? how can you really deny that?— really deny that? you are talkint really deny that? you are talking nonsense? - really deny that? you are talking nonsense? you i really deny that? you are - talking nonsense? you would never be an englishman. you will never tell me what i need to be. ~ , will never tell me what i need to be. p . will never tell me what i need to be. g ., , will never tell me what i need tobe. g ., , to be. my name is richard spencer- _ to be. my name is richard spencer- my _ to be. my name is richard spencer. my name - to be. my name is richard spencer. my name is - to be. my name is richard i spencer. my name is richard sencer spencer. my name is richard spencer and _ spencer. my name is richard spencer and i _ spencer. my name is richard spencer and i approve - spencer. my name is richard spencer and i approve that l spencer and i approve that message. spencer and i approve that message-— message. did you agonise whether interviewing - message. did you agonise i whether interviewing spencer gave him a platform and how did you reach that decision? i did atonise you reach that decision? i did agonise about _ you reach that decision? i did agonise about it _ you reach that decision? i did agonise about it and - you reach that decision? i did agonise about it and after - you reach that decision? i c c agonise about it and after it because i think it's important not to give oxygen to, to people like that. my view was he really had oxygen and doing that documentary, there were several people who are refused

to interview that they wanted me to interview, from the ku klux klan and random bigots but because of, because of being albright and the connection to steve bannon and steve bannon's connection to trump, i thought there was a legitimate reason. my there was a legitimate reason. my aim in interviewing him, the first question i asked was why do you want that aim. my aim was to be tough but to allow him to speak, he quickly descended into a range of insults, and this thing ofjust telling me i'm not english, which... ijust kept telling him that is not your call, actually. him that is not your call, actually-— him that is not your call, actuall . ., . , ., .,~ actually. that decision making trocess, actually. that decision making process. it _ actually. that decision making process, it feels _ actually. that decision making process, it feels like - actually. that decision making process, it feels like a - actually. that decision making process, it feels like a part i process, it feels like a part of debate of what the role of a journalist is and it feels generational now that people,

hate to say, our age, but older journalists tend to think along the lines of perhaps younger ones are saying you should not give these people a platform at all? , ., . ., all? there is a challenging balance i _ all? there is a challenging balance i think _ all? there is a challenging balance i think because, i all? there is a challenging l balance i think because, and this was the very beginning of my media career, i was working for yorkshire television on a magazine programme called the world this week. i was asked because of employed front national to ask for an interview withjohn ruby penn and i refused, because there are 7% in the polls and this is reticulation, you can do it and i will not do it. i was an intern and i said you can understand you can fire me but i will not do it. did understand you can fire me but i will not do it.— i will not do it. did they fire ou? i will not do it. did they fire you? no. — i will not do it. did they fire you? no. they _ i will not do it. did they fire you? no, they didn't i i will not do it. did they fire l you? no, they didn't because the stakes — you? no, they didn't because the stakes are _ you? no, they didn't because the stakes are so _ you? no, they didn't because the stakes are so low - you? no, they didn't because the stakes are so low for i the stakes are so low for everybody. i was an intern and i could get an internship, often they were barely paying

me. but my view was, my view would be now, it would be very difficult argument to say you should not interview marine le pen now when she is second, quite often, in the polls and the politics has broken down and you have to engage with it. you're not saying interviewing someone give them a platform you are saying they already had a platform?— a platform? when they have a platform- -- — a platform? when they have a platform... then _ a platform? when they have a platform... then it _ a platform? when they have a platform... then it is - platform... then it is justified. _ platform... then it is justified. otherwise i platform... then it is i justified. otherwise what platform... then it is - justified. otherwise what will ou do? justified. otherwise what will you do? never— justified. otherwise what will you do? never speak - justified. otherwise what will you do? never speak to i justified. otherwise what will. you do? never speak to them. let's take donald trump. should journalists never interview him? he's the president. should you never interview him or trying to hold him to account so no moment where people have power, you to hold them to account and myjudgement was that, richard spencer in this case, was moving into the realms of power. now, it is a judgement, so i think it is a very legitimate question of

mine, should you or should you not, but it was my call in that case it made sense.— not, but it was my call in that case it made sense. before we end, case it made sense. before we end. when _ case it made sense. before we end. when you _ case it made sense. before we end, when you look _ case it made sense. before we end, when you look back- case it made sense. before we end, when you look back at i case it made sense. before we i end, when you look back at your career, which story, other stories you're most proud of? the story i am most proud of is claudia coleman, the woman who was kicked off the bus before rosa parks in montgomery, alabama and she was going to be the one. the one they held up... she was going to be the standardbearer, she was very dark and on the wrong side of town and then she got pregnant when she was 15 or 16 and so they decided not to. it took me a couple of years to find her and she was working as a nurse's aid in the bronx and is also being a fascinating story, i also felt that it made some sort of contribution to her understanding, to my

understanding, to my understanding of how the world works. , g understanding of how the world works. , . ., ~ ,~/ understanding of how the world works. , i ., ~' i., ., works. gary jung, thank you for comint works. gary jung, thank you for coming on _ works. gary jung, thank you for coming on the _ works. gary jung, thank you for coming on the media _ works. gary jung, thank you for coming on the media show. i works. gary jung, thank you for i coming on the media show. thank ou for coming on the media show. thank you for having _ coming on the media show. thank you for having me. _

i started the week with a colder start. a beautiful week across friday with temperatures speaking to the mid teens and a classic spring story for many, sunny spells and scattered showers are some of those heavy and thundering and that they will continue for the first half of the weekend. sunshine and shops i on saturday and a ridge of high pressure on sunday and quite a fine, dry story to come. for saturday, all about this area of low pressure, more persistent rain and eventually some cold air across the far north of scotland will turn back of that

across northern aisles and snow across northern aisles and snow a time but for the bulk of the country we had sat in the mild as the milder with further sunny spells and scattered showers. on saturday, lighter winds that showers could be slow—moving and once again could be heavy with the odd rumble of thunder. persistent rain into western scotland gradually moving into the northern isles as a close out the day. during the cold air, 5-8 but the day. during the cold air, 5—8 but further south temperatures speaking into the mid teens in places. as a moving into saturday and into sunday winds will strengthen as a rain move through the northern ireland and the back edge of that could see a wintry mix developing, worth bearing in mind. with a ridge of high pressure building it will be a relatively quiet night to come in under the clear skies as the rain sleet and snow is as a way, temperatures of all the way, temperatures of all the way, low single figures in scotland but a caller start to sunday morning. hopefully that will translate into a sunny one as with the clear skies and a

little bit of cloud lingering across the south—east, sunshine coming throughout throughout the day and clouding over through the west. not a bad sunday in prospect. temperatures likely to be between 5— nine in the north and maybe around 11—13 further south. into monday, another area of low pressure looks set to develop and that will allow a south—westerly flow and the mild air is set to return and turning milder and wetterfor turning milder and wetter for the turning milder and wetterfor the new working week. the heaviest of the rain moving its way across scotland and there will be showers putting in a long west facing coast and often windy at times and the best of the dry brighter weather reserved for eastern areas were once again temperatures will sit around 14 celsius the high. the frontal system is yet to clear away so on tuesday we will continue to see plenty of showers. the jetstream as we look further ahead looks likely to remain to

the south of us. it is a jetstream responsible for steering areas of low pressure so will see one low moving in from the atlantic i need to be replaced by get another look how close the isobars are, the winds are a feature. as a load yourself to the east, apples down the northerly wind so towards the end and into the weekend we will start as the caller air, weekend we will start as the callerair, potentially weekend we will start as the caller air, potentially winning out. a long way ahead and still plenty to play for one thing is for certain it will be unsettled for the week ahead, showers or longer spells of rain, often windy at times, potentially getting caller towards the end of next weekend. that is it. take care.

this is bbc news. i'm anjana gadgil. our top stories: wanted for war crimes. the international criminal court issues an arrest warrant for russia's leader, vladimir putin, for his alleged role in deporting ukrainian children to russia. thejudges issued the judges issued arrest warrants, their execution depends on international cooperation. tiktok reportedly under investigation in the united states over allegations the video sharing app spied on journalists. police in paris arrest more protesters angry at the french president's pension reforms. the mystery of the dead fish found floating in an australian river.