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tv   BBC News  BBC News  March 18, 2023 11:00am-11:31am GMT

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this is bbc news — welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. i'm shaun ley. our top stories: the former pakistani prime minister imran khan is travelling to court in islamabad to face corruption charges. his home was raided by police after he left. when by police after he left. he gets to islamabad, we ki that when he gets to islamabad, we know that the authorities have suspended the ability to be able to hold rallies and protests, so there will be a very close eye on the court later today. us presidentjoe biden has welcomed the international criminal court's arrest warrant against russia's vladimir putin. the icc have accused president putin of committing warcrimes in ukraine. the us government is investigating the chinese parent company of tiktok for possible spying. tiktok says it will co—operate
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with any investigations. a fraud victim has won a £153,000 refund after the bbc�*s money box programme contacted lloyds bank about him being targeted. they told him he was especially vulnerable to the fraudsters who targeted him. hello. if you havejustjoined us, a warm welcome to bbc news. we start in pakistan — where security has been tightened across the capital islamabad as the former prime minister, imran khan, prepares to appear in court. he left his home in lahore on saturday morning after a court lifted the arrest warrant issued against him. he's charged with corruption while in office, charges which he says are politically motivated.
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his convoy has been accompanied by dozens of supporters. they had earlier prevented police from trying to arrest him at his home. the security services have said they will not allow any of mr khan's supporters to enter islamabad while carrying guns. for his part, mr khan has warned of a huge reaction across pakistan if he is arrested or if any attempt is made on his life. he says it is the biggest threat he has faced. these are the latest pictures from islamabad, where people are gathering outside the court where the convoy carrying imran khan is expected to arrive. there are some large packing cases or construction cases, they have been erected to provide a barricade with riot police on top of the barricade. the idea, presumably, is to prevent mr khan supporters from surging into the court building. security is tight. it is worth remembering that mr khan was shot
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backin remembering that mr khan was shot back in november, an injury to the foot, which has supporters claimed had been an organised attempt on his life. that is disputed, but nonetheless he was injured, received hospital treatment, and has continued with his campaign. he argues that he was ousted early from his term as prime minister in what he regards as an illegal act, basically a vote of no confidence against him in the national assembly. bear in mind that mr khan's government was a coalition government, a minority government, although his party was the largest party at the most recent general election. 0ur pakistan correspondent caroline davies is following mr khan's convoy — and she sent us this update. this is the start of the journey for imran khanfrom this is the start of the journey for imran khan from his home to the court and is bad. it is on the basis of this appearance at his arrest warrants were suspended yesterday.
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many of his supporters have turned out, as well as of course security, because his team have talked repeatedly about threats to his safety. when he gets to islamabad, we know that the authorities there have suspended the ability to be able to hold rallies and protests, so there will be a very close eye on the courts later today. we will have more from islamabad as soon as we get any new developments. president biden has welcomed the arrest warrant issued against vladimir putin by the international criminal court. the russian president is accused of war crimes, focusing on the forced deportation of ukrainian children to russia. it's the first time the court has ordered the arrest of a prominent, serving, political leader. ukraine's president zelensky has hailed the decision as historic, but moscow dismissed the announcement as �*outrageous', saying it doesn't recognise the jurisdiction of the court. the bbc�*s helena wilkinson reports. it is a war that he ordered. a war that brought
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death and devastation. a war that sent millions fleeing for their lives. but it's one that has now left president putin accused of war crimes by an international court, and even more isolated on the world stage. the judges have reviewed the information and evidence submitted by the prosecutor, and determined that there are credible allegations against these persons for the alleged crimes. the international criminal court, based in the hague, alleges the russian leader and another official are individually responsible for the war crime of unlawfully deporting children from ukraine to russia. this was the reaction from president biden to the icc�*s move. i think itjustifies it, but the question is it's not recognised internationally by us either, but i think it clearly makes a very strong point. he has clearly
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committed a war crime. in the chaos that followed the invasion, millions of people were displaced, and there have been reports of thousands of children being sent to so—called re—education camps in russia — alleged crimes for which ukraine's president has repeatedly demanded justice. translation: this is an historic decision from which historical - responsibility will begin. the head of the terrorist state and another russian official have become suspects in a war crime. a kremlin spokesman said the allegations were �*outrageous' and �*unacceptable'. the foreign ministry said the arrest warrant meant nothing legally. translation: russia is not a party to the rome statute| of the international criminal court and bears no obligations under it. the man investigating the allegations against mr putin denied the warrants were symbolic. there are reasonable grounds
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to believe that crimes - within our court's jurisdiction have been committed, - so those that feel that you canj commit a crime in the daytime and sleep well at night should perhaps look at history. - vladimir putin may never be arrested or appear in court, but it's not everyday that a serving head of state is accused of war crimes, and it's a signal from the international community that they will seek justice for what has been happening in ukraine. helena wilkinson, bbc news. i spoke to our correspondent anna holligan, who is at the hague, who gave us more details. there are so many people talking about this being a symbolic move, but actually what stands out as being very significant is that in order to issue these arrest warrants, the icc needs to have sufficient grounds, sufficient evidence to be able to actually point the finger at president putin,
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so that is why this is so important. and a lot of people are wondering, why focus on this specific crime? those who have been watching the atrocities, the alleged atrocities being committed in ukraine since the start of the russian invasion will be familiar with attacks on hospitals, power grids, and yet this is very specific, focusing on the alleged forcible transfer of children, ukrainian children, across the border into russia. and one of the reasons — i spoke to karim khan, the prosecutor, last night — one of the reasons is because they believe they have enough evidence to bring this case to court. but of course that is just the first part of this. and ukraine has spoken about this issue in the past and estimated that 16,000 ukrainian children have been taken across the border into russia, adopted, some of them, by russian families. when i was speaking to karim khan, he pointed out that russia had recently signed a decree which made it easierfor russian families to adopt ukrainian children.
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and karim khan has been to ukraine four times since february 2022, at the last time he visited a children's home close to the front line. he was surrounded by empty cots. he said then, and he said again to me yesterday, "children cannot be treated as the spoils of war." it is a very powerful indictment in that sense, isn't it? but in terms of practicalities with this, anna, could it actually be a bit of a spanner in the works of any prospect of a negotiation to bring the war to an end? possibly. although the icc would always say that it is driven by evidence rather than any kind of political motivations. but this is a geopolitical context that we are looking at all this from within. and the other issue is, of course, russia is not a member of the icc. as you said, they have described this arrest warrant as outrageous, and in fact the spokesman, dmitry peskov, compared it to toilet paper.
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and yet, 123 countries are members of the icc, they are now duty—bound, they are obliged to arrest president putin if he steps foot on their territory. so it could make travel very difficult if he decided, for example, he wanted to go to cyprus or serbia. the other thing to bear in mind is, in a few days' time, he will be meeting china's president, xijinping. that could feel very awkward because he will now be standing shoulder to shoulder with a suspected war criminal. there have been clashes in paris — as protests continued against president macron's reforms to pensions. thousands of people lit fires and threw firecrackers at police, who responded with tear gas. a number of arrests were made. earlier on friday, in the french parliament, opposition parties filed motions of no confidence in the government after it pushed through a contentious raise
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in the retirement age from 62 to 64. i spoke to our paris correspondent, hugh schofield, who told us more about the protests and about the constitutional power that was used to force the bill through. this constitutional procedure, which they call it, 49.3, is not unprecedented. it has been used regularly over the years, particularly by minority governments — this is a minority government. so there is nothing particularly new about this. of course, every time it does happen, the opposition cries foul. and this case you have a context in which, you know, the country is already very tense, morale is low, people feel their standard of living going down, inflation rampant and so on, and so you have a context which makes it all the more kind of volatile, the situation. it is part of the constitution, though. remember that the fifth republic was started by, you know, charles de gaulle, he wanted to make sure there was a strong presidency and that the presidency would not be hamstrung by warring factions in parliament, so he put this measure in so that, in the case of parliament
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rocking a piece of law, there was this possibility —— blocking a piece of law, there was this possibility to avoid a vote. but don't forget, there will be a vote, and this is the government's argument. next week, there are these censure motions. the censure motions, if they pass against the government, will bring the government down and the reform won't happen. but, of course, there is a difference between voting for a measure, which is what the government tried to get everyone to do last week, and voting against the government, which is going to happen next week. and some of the mps who voted against the government last week are not going to vote to bring it down next week, so the government will probably survive. in terms of the actual process going on, we have seen some pictures as you speak, hugh, of the scenes of last night, friday night, in paris. i mean, we had the giletjaunes campaign was protracted during president macron's first term. how would you characterise these protests? are they really more of the same or do they feel like they have a different edge to them?
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it is similar to the giletjaunes, it has got the same edge to it. i am not saying we are at exactly the same point, because, of course, we are not. the giletjaunes came out of nowhere, really. this has come out of the long, protracted campaign of strikes and demonstrations and so on. but what you are seeing is now, you know, the far left, elements of the far left, the radical left who feel no compunction about resorting to street protests and violent street protests, you are seeing them now with the kind of self—justification, saying, "well, we did it obediently all that time, didn't make any difference, so what do you expect, president macron?" "of course, the next logical step turn in this is the turn to more violent forms of protest." and so, yes, notjust in paris, but, you know, in lyon, there was a town hall of one of the arrondissements which was attacked last night. in strasbourg, rennes, there has been an awful lot of civil unrest and violence. you know, windows broken and so on. i mean, you know, it is containable,
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it is not as if the country is on the brink of a massive civil insurrection, but it is a worrying mood across the country now. remember, in paris now, the bins are piling up, the mountain of bin bags outside my home here, as there are across the city. a general feeling that we are in a very tense moment. let me return to our top story this hour, the violent scenes we have seen on occasion in the last progress of imran khan and his supporters to islamabad, the capital, where mr khan is due to appear in court to answer corruption charges. these are some pictures from a little earlier. they show a series of packing cases, shipping containers, that have been laid across the route towards parliament in order to create a barrier to
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prevent, presumably, mr khan's supporters from surging into the court building. there are riot police among the people on top of there. some of them are supporting their shields, there. some of them are supporting theirshields, others there. some of them are supporting their shields, others not. there. some of them are supporting theirshields, others not. but there. some of them are supporting their shields, others not. but they are certainly in no mood to take any trouble from the crowd. we understand that the police chief of islamabad has already warned mr khan's supporters they will not be allowed into the capital unless they agree to be disarmed first. there were armed groups as part of the pro—khan protests over the last few days. i'm joined now by farhat javed from bbc urdu who is in islamabad. first of all, just deal with what happened as mr khan made his attempt to reach islamabad. there is a big group of supporters protecting him, surrounding him. was it relatively uneventful?—
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uneventful? imran khan, it was a much awaited _ uneventful? imran khan, it was a much awaited appearance - uneventful? imran khan, it was a much awaited appearance before | uneventful? imran khan, it was a . much awaited appearance before the court stop finally imran khan left his residence to appear before a court. while he was on route with a large crowd, as he always is, there has been hundreds of people outside his residence, waiting for him, they went with him yesterday when he went to a court, and today again they are accompanying him to islamabad's judicial complex where he will appear in a few minutes probably. when he was going to islamabad, police... the interior minister has confirmed they have arrested if you of his party workers on allegations of his party workers on allegations of attacking police and the last two or three days when the police were there to arrest imran khan. 50m; or three days when the police were there to arrest imran khan. sorry to interru t, there to arrest imran khan. sorry to interrupt. we _ there to arrest imran khan. sorry to interrupt, we have _ there to arrest imran khan. sorry to interrupt, we have the _ there to arrest imran khan. sorry to interrupt, we have the police - there to arrest imran khan. sorry to interrupt, we have the police chief l interrupt, we have the police chief of islamabad has just told reuters news agency that mr khan's supporters attacked a police close
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to the court premises. do you know any more about that? we to the court premises. do you know any more about that?— to the court premises. do you know any more about that? we have seen imaues, any more about that? we have seen images. not — any more about that? we have seen images. not only — any more about that? we have seen images, not only from _ any more about that? we have seen images, not only from islamabad i images, not only from islamabad police but also from imran khan's workers, they have shared these images where we can see smoke, it seems that there has been tear gas shelling. police allege that these were the workers of imran khan who pelted stones at the police and threw tear gas at police, but on the other hand the party workers of imran khan say it was done by the police and they also allege that imran khan is being stopped from entering the court. he has reached outside the court, but he is just waiting to enter the court. there is a big number of his supporters. police have shared some videos with some grainy images showing workers pelting stones at the police, and police also allege that they have set a police picket on fire. but we
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could not confirm these images from independent sources, but this is what the police is sharing. they are asking imran khan's supporters to clear the way, so that he could enter the court. 0n the other hand, imran khan and his supporters are alleging it is the police who are stopping them. today, a very small number of lawyers and his supporters were allowed to enter the court will stop his party have been claiming that this is an intentional effort on the part of the police because they want to arrest imran khan, so they want to arrest imran khan, so they do not want supporters around him. there have been some clashes outside the court where he is yet to appear. but both sides are alleging each other of initiating these clashes. . ~ each other of initiating these clashes. ., ~ , ., each other of initiating these clashes. . ~' , ., , each other of initiating these clashes. ., ~ , ., , . each other of initiating these clashes. . ~ , . ., clashes. thank you very much for that undate- _ clashes. thank you very much for that undate- i — clashes. thank you very much for that update. i know— clashes. thank you very much for that update. i know you - clashes. thank you very much for that update. i know you will - clashes. thank you very much for that update. i know you will talk| clashes. thank you very much for. that update. i know you will talk to is again during the course of today as we hear more from that court case in pakistan.
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us media is reporting that president biden's government is investigating the chinese parent company of the social media app tiktok for possible spying. an investigation was launched late last year, after data from tiktok users in the united states were inappropriately obtained. here's our north america correspondent david willis. it appears that this investigation was launched sometime last year and then ramped up a couple of months ago after bytedance, the company, the chinese company that owns tiktok, confirmed reports here in the american media that some chinese staff had been using the app to spy on american journalists, in particular to get information about their sources of stories that had appeared about tiktok in the american media. now, bytedance said in response to today's reports that it is strongly condemning the actions of those staff, who, it says, have subsequently been dismissed.
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but it's only a couple of months, of course, since tiktok, the app, was banned from government phones here and in an attempt to basically head off further restrictions, bytedance have suggested that maybe the company should keep all user data, american user data on servers located here in the united states. well, the biden administration has come under criticism from opposition republicans for not doing enough to ensure national security through apps such as this. earlier this week, the biden administration announced that it was going to demand that bytedance either sell off tiktok or face a nationwide and here in the united states.
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i'm joined now by technology advisor for tbd — technology behaviour and data group, paul armstrong who is in london please go back to basics, remind us what tiktok is and what has made it such a ubiquitous social media platform. such a ubiquitous social media latform. ~' , such a ubiquitous social media latform. ~ , ., ., platform. tiktok is a short form video sharing _ platform. tiktok is a short form video sharing app, _ platform. tiktok is a short form video sharing app, essentially l video sharing app, essentially people can go on, upload videos of themselves. it got very popular through the pandemic because people could upload photos of themselves dancing, it was very much a collegial effort of lots of people passing things on. it is a very viral app, passing things on. it is a very viralapp, notjust passing things on. it is a very viral app, notjust because it is popular, but actually when content is on it it can go viral very quickly. it has around 2 million people using it worldwide. that is the oint, people using it worldwide. that is the point. the _ people using it worldwide. that is the point, the numbers— people using it worldwide. that is the point, the numbers are - people using it worldwide. that is the point, the numbers are so - the point, the numbers are so enormous. presumably, as a data source, that is enormously valuable, whether it is for advertising purposes or intelligence purposes. absolutely, that is the key. that is
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theissue absolutely, that is the key. that is the issue that the us and other government around the world have with it. the app is incredibly invasive with the amount of data that it can get. it is very similar to other apps that are out there, to ask you for your location, the device you're using, ip address. lots of other apps ask for that. the issue people have with tiktok is that when you are it, sometimes it put you in the in app browser, like you're using the internet regularly, but it is a tiktok version of it and they can look at anything you are looking at. these are the sorts of overages that people have an issue with. another big problem people have had recently as they will analyse photos and videos to identify things that are in your background, what facial features you have, your weight. then they will actively change the content that is seen, or they might even withhold your content and not show it to as many users. that has been shown to be the case via research recently. what is not clear is whether any of this is malicious.—
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what is not clear is whether any of this is malicious. absolutely. there is issues around _ this is malicious. absolutely. there is issues around the _ this is malicious. absolutely. there is issues around the world, - this is malicious. absolutely. there is issues around the world, lots - this is malicious. absolutely. there is issues around the world, lots of. is issues around the world, lots of governments have been pulling the 3pp governments have been pulling the app and saying do not put it on your back devices or personal devices for their employees, but the argument is that having such information listed makes it a lot easier for people to become targets and things like fishing attacks and that sort of thing. there's an argument for protection, there is an argument of overreach, ultimately will be up to individual governments to decide how far they want to let tiktok come into our lives.— into our lives. tiktok has acknowledged, _ into our lives. tiktok has acknowledged, the - into our lives. tiktok has | acknowledged, the parent into our lives. tiktok has _ acknowledged, the parent company has acknowledged, the parent company has acknowledged it has had some issues where employees have been looking at things to do with individual users that they should not have been. it says it has dealt with him as a disciplinary matter. is there anything to think that there may be something fundamental to the app itself that makes us vulnerable. if thatis,is itself that makes us vulnerable. if that is, is anything we can do that allows us to carry on using tiktok, but also maybe not to supply all this extra information in case somebody is going to use it for
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malicious purposes? it is incredibly hard to use — malicious purposes? it is incredibly hard to use tiktok _ malicious purposes? it is incredibly hard to use tiktok cannot - malicious purposes? it is incredibly hard to use tiktok cannot allow- hard to use tiktok cannot allow information to be shared. it is the inadvertent showing of what is mind you. i have got a blank background today, but what if i had some technology by me or something like that? that might help people figure out, he is using amusan, maybe i can exploit that. it is really figuring out some of the inadvertent use is that people have for it. just knowing where people live is not a good thing for a lot of people to have access to. we should have more some more privacy when it comes to these apps. some more privacy when it comes to these appe— some more privacy when it comes to these apps-— these apps. china is the ultimate location of _ these apps. china is the ultimate location of tiktok, _ these apps. china is the ultimate location of tiktok, this _ these apps. china is the ultimate location of tiktok, this is - these apps. china is the ultimate location of tiktok, this is where l location of tiktok, this is where the app was created. p will be aware that if you operate in china as a chinese company, it is almost inevitable that you are required to have links and make yourself available to the chinese authorities. it is a controlled state. how confident can we be that that does not apply, as the company claims it does not apply, to that part of the business that is located
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outside of china?— part of the business that is located outside of china? chinese law would reauire outside of china? chinese law would require them — outside of china? chinese law would require them to _ outside of china? chinese law would require them to have _ outside of china? chinese law would require them to have any _ outside of china? chinese law would require them to have any data - outside of china? chinese law would require them to have any data that l require them to have any data that they have put over to the chinese authorities. in that case, there is an argument to say that intelligence of national security matters are absolutely premium. i cannot speak for tiktok and see what they are and are not doing. but it is in their best interest to... work with chinese authorities. 0therwise best interest to... work with chinese authorities. otherwise they would stop being a company in china. do you think it is justified when you see the united states government, the us administration saying it is banning tiktok from all its employees' work equipment? you can an ue its employees' work equipment? you can argue it — its employees' work equipment? ml, can argue it both ways, that there is a constitutional right to use any app is a constitutional right to use any app that they want. the argument for, what you call it? international safety and domestic safety, there need to be steps taken to inner protect information because it is so
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easy to share on the app, share things that you do not realise you are sharing. i think they're going to have an issue... they are fully within their rights... to have an issue... they are fully within their rights. . ._ within their rights... pol, we are auoin to within their rights... pol, we are going to have — within their rights... pol, we are going to have to _ within their rights... pol, we are going to have to leave _ within their rights... pol, we are going to have to leave it - within their rights... pol, we are going to have to leave it there. l going to have to leave it there. forgive me. i am so grateful to have an expert to talk to. you're watching bbc news.
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this is bbc news. the headlines: the former pakistani prime minister imran khan is travelling to court in islamabad to face corruption charges. his home was raided by police after he left. when he gets to islam is bad, we know the authorities have suspended the ability to hold rallies and protests so there are very close eye
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on courts later today.

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