big vote on the brexit deal have a big vote on the brexit deal from rishi sunak. he has agreed that with the eu, this is now the first parliamentary test of this deal and we expect there to be some conservative rebels who have already said they do not like what they see, one of whom is borisjohnson. he is also being joined by anotherformer prime minister liz truss and a former tory leader who said they will not support that deal. we are going to get a quite strange situation where everyone sits down to watch borisjohnson. i can see the committee room assembling and getting going as we speak, and then in 15 minutes orso getting going as we speak, and then in 15 minutes or so everyone will break and the mps will scurry off to the other part of the parliamentary estate, cast their votes and come back to talk about boris johnson estate, cast their votes and come back to talk about borisjohnson and party eight. two big stories here and borisjohnson is the common theme. and boris johnson is the common theme. ., ., , ., ., theme. the man who is going to answer all _ theme. the man who is going to

answer all those _ theme. the man who is going to answer all those questions, - theme. the man who is going to answer all those questions, i - theme. the man who is going to i answer all those questions, i don't know if he has sat down yet. i don't think things will start very readily without him. there will be lots of people in the house of commons glued to this committee hearing. in their own offices, politicians from every party will be taking an interest in this. , , ., , ., this. this is the final instalment in the partygate _ this. this is the final instalment in the partygate saga, - this. this is the final instalment in the partygate saga, if- this. this is the final instalment in the partygate saga, if the - this. this is the final instalmentl in the partygate saga, if the met police investigation into what went on was the first part, we had the report by the ben senior servant sue gray, this is the conclusion to that whole investigation. in its essence it is a very parliamentary procedural aspect of the story, technically dead borisjohnson misled the house of commons? as we have been discussing throughout this afternoon, it has taken on a much greater significance. it is another chance to reassess that fundamental point of whether he lied, he is

going to mount a very strong defence and is actually taking on the privileges committee that is going to be questioning him this afternoon. he is taking them face on. he is saying you have gone beyond your remit and made up new ways to investigate me and new terms, such as trying to consider whether my statements were reckless. he is very determined to protect his reputation and defend his position. but the privileges committee will be spending hours this afternoon trying to get to the bottom of what he meant when and whether he knew the statement he made to parliament... borisjohnson isjust statement he made to parliament... borisjohnson is just sitting statement he made to parliament... borisjohnson isjust sitting down borisjohnson is just sitting down at the table in front of the privileges committee. taking his seat there, he does have advisors that they are present. they will be able to pass notes. one has taken a seat next to him on the table. lets

'oin the seat next to him on the table. lets join the select _ seat next to him on the table. lets join the select committee, harriet harman is cheering. to join the select committee, harriet harman is cheering.— harman is cheering. to decide whether or — harman is cheering. to decide whether or not _ harman is cheering. to decide whether or not mr— harman is cheering. to decide whether or not mrjohnson - harman is cheering. to decide - whether or not mrjohnson misled the whether or not mrjohnson misled the house _ whether or not mrjohnson misled the house of— whether or not mrjohnson misled the house of commons, whether he committed a contempt of the house and whether or not this was in any way intentional or reckless. this is what _ way intentional or reckless. this is what the _ way intentional or reckless. this is what the house of commons has required — what the house of commons has required us to do by referring this matter_ required us to do by referring this matter to — required us to do by referring this matter to us in the emotion that was carried _ matter to us in the emotion that was carried without a vote against in april— carried without a vote against in april last — carried without a vote against in april last year. misleading the house — april last year. misleading the house might sound like a technical issue. _ house might sound like a technical issue. but— house might sound like a technical issue, but it is a matter of great importance. our democracy is based on parliament scrutinising legislation and holding the government to account for its actions — government to account for its actions. we proceed on the basis that what— actions. we proceed on the basis that what we are told by ministers is accurate — that what we are told by ministers is accurate. parliament expects proactive — is accurate. parliament expects proactive candour and transparency. if proactive candour and transparency. if what _ proactive candour and transparency. if what ministers tell us is not the truth, _ if what ministers tell us is not the

truth, we — if what ministers tell us is not the truth, we cannot do ourjob. our democracy— truth, we cannot do ourjob. our democracy depends upon trust that what ministers tell mps in the house of commons is the truth, and without that trust— of commons is the truth, and without that trust our entire elementary democracy is undermined. everyone makes _ democracy is undermined. everyone makes mistakes and when ministers do, they— makes mistakes and when ministers do, they are — makes mistakes and when ministers do, they are expected to correct it at the _ do, they are expected to correct it at the earliest opportunity and that is what _ at the earliest opportunity and that is what happens routinely. inadvertent misleading, which is promptly— inadvertent misleading, which is promptly corrected, is not an issue. the house _ promptly corrected, is not an issue. the house understands if ministers declined _ the house understands if ministers declined to answer on matters which relate _ declined to answer on matters which relate to _ declined to answer on matters which relate to national security or market _ relate to national security or market sensitivity. but misleading intentionally or recklessly or refusing _ intentionally or recklessly or refusing to answer or fearing to correct — refusing to answer or fearing to correct impedes or frustrates the functioning of the house and is contempt. during the covid pandemic, the government and parliament imposed — the government and parliament imposed extensive restrictions on our freedom in the interest of

protecting public health. in this inquiry— protecting public health. in this inquiry we are not looking at the rights _ inquiry we are not looking at the rights or— inquiry we are not looking at the rights or wrongs of those covid rules— rights or wrongs of those covid rules or— rights or wrongs of those covid rules or guidance, or repeating the partygate — rules or guidance, or repeating the partygate inquiry into the conduct of individual ministers and officials _ of individual ministers and officials in number ten. what the house _ officials in number ten. what the house has— officials in number ten. what the house has mandated us to look at is whether— house has mandated us to look at is whether mr— house has mandated us to look at is whether mrjohnson told the truth to parliament to the best of his knowledge about number ten's compliance with those rules and guidance — compliance with those rules and guidance. it is about the truth and that is— guidance. it is about the truth and that is why— guidance. it is about the truth and that is why this inquiry goes to the heart _ that is why this inquiry goes to the heart of— that is why this inquiry goes to the heart of the trust on which our system — heart of the trust on which our system of— heart of the trust on which our system of accountability depends. this committee is comprised of members— this committee is comprised of members of parliament who have been appointed _ members of parliament who have been appointed to this rule by the house of commons. the political balance on this committee reflects the political balance in the house, which — political balance in the house, which is — political balance in the house, which is why the committee comprises four conservatives and three opposition mps, including two from

labour— opposition mps, including two from labour and — opposition mps, including two from labour and one from the snp. having said that, _ labour and one from the snp. having said that, we leave our party interests _ said that, we leave our party interests at the door of the committee room and conduct our work in the _ committee room and conduct our work in the interests of the house. that is what _ in the interests of the house. that is what we — in the interests of the house. that is what we are doing in this inquiry and what _ is what we are doing in this inquiry and what we will continue to do. we are examining what mrjohnson said to the _ are examining what mrjohnson said to the house about gatherings in number— to the house about gatherings in number ten, to the house about gatherings in numberten, whether to the house about gatherings in number ten, whether what he said to the house _ number ten, whether what he said to the house was correct or not, whether— the house was correct or not, whether and if so how quickly and comprehensively any misleading statement was corrected. if a statement was corrected. if a statement was corrected. if a statement was misleading, we will then consider whether that was a genuine — then consider whether that was a genuine error or if it was reckless or intentional. and whether the record — or intentional. and whether the record was corrected in good time. we have _ record was corrected in good time. we have already considered evidence supplied _ we have already considered evidence supplied by the government, including e—mails, whatsapp messages and photos— including e—mails, whatsapp messages and photos taken at the time, and written _ and photos taken at the time, and written statements taken under oath from witnesses present at the relative — from witnesses present at the relative times, to inform us of what

mrjohnson— relative times, to inform us of what mrjohnson would have known at the time of— mrjohnson would have known at the time of his— mrjohnson would have known at the time of his statements to the house. there _ time of his statements to the house. there has— time of his statements to the house. there has been much comment about whether— there has been much comment about whether the _ there has been much comment about whether the committee is relying on the sinkgraven report material, we are not— the sinkgraven report material, we are not relying on any such material. _ are not relying on any such material, and no will be —— sue gray~ _ material, and no will be —— sue gray~ last— material, and no will be —— sue gray. last december we decided to collect _ gray. last december we decided to collect first—hand evidence from all witnesses — collect first—hand evidence from all witnesses under oath and it has all been _ witnesses under oath and it has all been disclosed to mrjohnson. sue gray is _ been disclosed to mrjohnson. sue gray is not — been disclosed to mrjohnson. sue gray is not a witness. we have followed — gray is not a witness. we have followed the standing orders of the house _ followed the standing orders of the house and — followed the standing orders of the house and the presidents as advised by our— house and the presidents as advised by our clerks, speakers council and by our clerks, speakers council and by sir— by our clerks, speakers council and by sir ernest — by our clerks, speakers council and by sir ernest ryder, a former lord justice _ by sir ernest ryder, a former lord justice of— by sir ernest ryder, a former lord justice of appeal. we have not changed — justice of appeal. we have not changed the rules or the procedure, that is— changed the rules or the procedure, that is not— changed the rules or the procedure, that is not within our remit. they are laid _ that is not within our remit. they are laid down by the house and we are laid down by the house and we are bound — are laid down by the house and we are bound to follow them, and that is what _ are bound to follow them, and that is what we — are bound to follow them, and that is what we have done. in our report of the _ is what we have done. in our report of the 3rd _ is what we have done. in our report of the 3rd of— is what we have done. in our report of the 3rd of march, we set out the main _ of the 3rd of march, we set out the main issue — of the 3rd of march, we set out the main issue which will be asking mr

johnson _ main issue which will be asking mr johnson about today. we will be talking — johnson about today. we will be talking about reels and guidance. since _ talking about reels and guidance. since johnson told the house number ten complied with both. when we refer— ten complied with both. when we refer to _ ten complied with both. when we refer to rules, we mean regulations laid down _ refer to rules, we mean regulations laid down by the house, which have the force _ laid down by the house, which have the force of— laid down by the house, which have the force of law and under which fixed _ the force of law and under which fixed penalty notices were issued. guidance — fixed penalty notices were issued. guidance is a guidance issued by the government, for example when mr johnson _ government, for example when mr johnson was talking about hands, face, _ johnson was talking about hands, face, space, he was referring to the guidance _ face, space, he was referring to the guidance on — face, space, he was referring to the guidance on social distancing when he said _ guidance on social distancing when he said space. on the basis of information that is in the public domain — information that is in the public domain and evidence of the committee has received, and in the context of what _ has received, and in the context of what mr_ has received, and in the context of what mrjohnson said to be house of commons, _ what mrjohnson said to be house of commons, we will be establishing what rules— commons, we will be establishing what rules and guidance related to covid _ what rules and guidance related to covid were — what rules and guidance related to covid were enforced at the relevant time _ covid were enforced at the relevant time mr_ covid were enforced at the relevant time. mrjohnson's knowledge of those _ time. mrjohnson's knowledge of those rules and guidance. mr johnson's _ those rules and guidance. mr johnson's attendance at or knowledge of gatherings that were not socially

distanced, and those at which fixed penalty— distanced, and those at which fixed penalty notices were issued. mr johnson — penalty notices were issued. mr johnson spoke about the question of covid _ johnson spoke about the question of covid compliance in number ten in the house — covid compliance in number ten in the house of commons more than 30 times, _ the house of commons more than 30 times, most— the house of commons more than 30 times, most particularly on the 1st of december 2021, the 8th of december at 2021 and the 25th of may 2022~ _ december at 2021 and the 25th of may 2022~ i_ december at 2021 and the 25th of may 2022. i would like us all to have if i 2022. i would like us all to have if i don't _ 2022. i would like us all to have if i don't know— 2022. i would like us all to have if i don't know of some of what mr johnson — i don't know of some of what mr johnson said in parliament in answer to questions, starting if we may with a _ to questions, starting if we may with a question from the leader of the opposition on the 1st of december. fits the opposition on the 1st of december-_ the opposition on the 1st of december. a ., , ., , december. as millions of people were locked down — december. as millions of people were locked down last _ december. as millions of people were locked down last year, _ december. as millions of people were locked down last year, was _ december. as millions of people were locked down last year, was a - locked down last year, was a christmas party thrown in downing street for dozens of people on december the 18th? mr street for dozens of people on december the 18th? ~ ,, , ., ,, ., december the 18th? mr speaker, what i can tell the — december the 18th? mr speaker, what i can tell the right _ december the 18th? mr speaker, what i can tell the right honourable - i can tell the right honourable gentleman is that all guidance was

followed completely during number ten, but i repeat, mr speaker, i have been repeatedly assured since these allegations emerged, that there was no party and that no covid rules were broken. that is what i have been repeatedly assured. i apologise for the impression that has been given, that staff in downing street take this seriously. i am second myself an theorist by that. i repeat what i have said to him, but i have been repeatedly assured that the rules... —— i am second and furious by that. the prime minister _ second and furious by that. tue: prime minister has been second and furious by that. ti2 prime minister has been caught red—handed, why does he not enter the investigation now by admitting it? i

the investigation now by admitting it? ., , , ., , the investigation now by admitting it? ., , it? i have been repeatedly assured that no rules _ it? i have been repeatedly assured that no rules were _ it? i have been repeatedly assured that no rules were broken. - it? i have been repeatedly assured that no rules were broken. thank i it? i have been repeatedly assured i that no rules were broken. thank you mr speaker. — that no rules were broken. thank you mr speaker. will— that no rules were broken. thank you mr speaker, will be _ that no rules were broken. thank you mr speaker, will be prime _ that no rules were broken. thank you mr speaker, will be prime minister. mr speaker, will be prime minister tabby— mr speaker, will be prime minister tabby house — mr speaker, will be prime minister tabby house whether— mr speaker, will be prime minister tabby house whether there - mr speaker, will be prime minister tabby house whether there was i mr speaker, will be prime minister tabby house whether there was a. tabby house whether there was a party— tabby house whether there was a party in _ tabby house whether there was a party in downing _ tabby house whether there was a party in downing street _ tabby house whether there was a party in downing street on - tabby house whether there was a party in downing street on the i tabby house whether there was a party in downing street on the of| party in downing street on the of november? _ party in downing street on the of november? -- _ party in downing street on the of november? —— 13th. _ party in downing street on the of november? ——13th.itio, - party in downing street on the of november? --13th._ party in downing street on the of november? --13th. no, but i'm sure whatever happened, _ november? --13th. no, but i'm sure whatever happened, the _ november? --13th. no, but i'm sure whatever happened, the guidance - november? --13th. no, but i'm sure| whatever happened, the guidance was followed and the rules were followed at all times. and i am happy to set on the record now that when i said, i came to this house and said the rules and guidance would be followed at all times, it was what i believed to be true. it was certainly the case when i was present at gatherings to which staff farewell, and will note that my attendance at these moments, brief as it was, has not been found to be outside the rules. but clearly this was not the

case for some of those gatherings after i left, and other gatherings when i was not even in the building. thank you. we need to understand is why mr— thank you. we need to understand is why mrjohnson said to parliament that no— why mrjohnson said to parliament that no rules or guidance were broken — that no rules or guidance were broken in _ that no rules or guidance were broken in numberten that no rules or guidance were broken in number ten when we have evidence _ broken in number ten when we have evidence that he knew what the rules and guidance were, and that he was present— and guidance were, and that he was present at— and guidance were, and that he was present at gatherings where those rules and — present at gatherings where those rules and guidance were breached. we have yet— rules and guidance were breached. we have yet to _ rules and guidance were breached. we have yet to reach our conclusions in this inquiry— have yet to reach our conclusions in this inquiry and we will not do so until— this inquiry and we will not do so until we — this inquiry and we will not do so until we have heard and considered mrjohnson's evans today. the evidence — mrjohnson's evans today. the evidence that we have already raises clear questions and this is mr johnson's _ clear questions and this is mr johnson's opportunity to give us his answers _ johnson's opportunity to give us his answers. will the clerk to the committee please administer the oath? _

make you take the bible. and read out the _ make you take the bible. and read out the terms _ make you take the bible. and read out the terms of _ make you take the bible. and read out the terms of the _ make you take the bible. and read out the terms of the oath. - make you take the bible. and read out the terms of the oath. [- make you take the bible. and read out the terms of the oath.- out the terms of the oath. i swear b god, out the terms of the oath. i swear by god. it — out the terms of the oath. i swear by god. it shall — out the terms of the oath. i swear by god, it shall be _ out the terms of the oath. i swear by god, it shall be the _ out the terms of the oath. i swear by god, it shall be the truth, - out the terms of the oath. i swear by god, it shall be the truth, the l by god, it shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me god.- whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me god. thank you very much- _ truth, so help me god. thank you very much- mr— truth, so help me god. thank you very much. mrjohnson, - truth, so help me god. thank you very much. mrjohnson, who - truth, so help me god. thank you - very much. mrjohnson, who provided the committee _ very much. mrjohnson, who provided the committee with _ very much. mrjohnson, who provided the committee with a _ very much. mrjohnson, who provided the committee with a written - the committee with a written submission which the committee has published _ submission which the committee has published. do you confirm the contents — published. do you confirm the contents of that statement are true? i do. ., , contents of that statement are true? i do. . , . ~' contents of that statement are true? ido. i do. please make your opening statement- _ i do. please make your opening statement. if _ i do. please make your opening statement. if i _ i do. please make your opening statement. ifi can, _ i do. please make your opening statement. ifi can, before - i do. please make your opening statement. ifi can, before i - i do. please make your opening . statement. ifi can, before i begin, i am conscience _ statement. ifi can, before i begin, i am conscience we _ statement. ifi can, before i begin, i am conscience we are _ statement. ifi can, before i begin, i am conscience we are waiting - statement. ifi can, before i begin, i am conscience we are waiting to i i am conscience we are waiting to vote in a few minutes, i hope you don't mind if i resume... it will break up what i am about to say. irate break up what i am about to say. we are a parliamentary committee and parliament— are a parliamentary committee and parliament is continuing. if there is a book— parliament is continuing. if there is a book called, which we do

ekpect, — is a book called, which we do ekpect, i_ is a book called, which we do expect, i will suspend the setting to enable — expect, i will suspend the setting to enable members to vote and we can pickup— to enable members to vote and we can pick up from _ to enable members to vote and we can pick up from where we left off. thank — pick up from where we left off. thank you _ pick up from where we left off. thank you. as you have just said, there were a number of days of a period of 20 months where gatherings took place in downing street that went past the point where they could be said to be necessary for work purposes. that was wrong, i bitterly regret it, i understand public anger and i continue to apologise for what happened on my watch, and i take full responsibility. but as he had just said, the purpose of this inquiry is not too real to so—called partygate, it is to discover whether or not i lied to parliament. —— to reopen. about misleading the country or what i believed about those gatherings when i said the rules or guidance had been followed at number ten. i am guidance had been followed at number ten. iam here guidance had been followed at number ten. i am here to say to you, hand on heart, that i did not lie to the

house. when those statements were made, they were made in good faith and on the basis of what i honestly knew and believed at the time. when this inquiry was set up, i was completely confident that you would find nothing to show i knew or believed anything else. as indeed you have not. i was confident, not because there has been a cover—up, i was confident because i knew that is what i believed. and that is why i said it. to understand why i believed it, you have to go back to a time before the sue gray report, before the police investigation, back to a time where as the evidence before the committee shows, there was a near universal belief at number ten that the rules and guidance were being complied with. that is the general belief that has been uncovered by your evidence and it was that belief that governed what i said in the house. and as

soon as it was clear that i was wrong, and as soon as the sue gray investigation and the metropolitan police investigation had concluded, i came to the house of commons and i corrected the record as i promised i would. i clearly could not have anticipated the outcome by coming earlier because i genuinely did not know what the outcome would be. and was deeply shocked when fines were issued, not least since i had been told on a couple of occasions at least, bite sue gray, that she did not think the threshold of criminality had been breached. i believe the committee's work helps to explain why i was so shocked. you have been investigating this for more than ten months and i thank you for what you have done. you have had access to a vast body of evidence, you have collected and reviewed hundreds of pages of transcripts and sue gray's interviews and you have

analysed many thousands of contemporary e—mails and whatsapp messages and other material. you have found nothing to show that i was warned in advance that events in number ten were illegal, in fact nothing to show that anyone raised anxieties with me about any event, whether before or after it had taken place. if there had been such anxiety, but a rule breaking event at number ten, it would unquestionably have been escalated to me. we all knew how vital it was to me. we all knew how vital it was to maintain public confidence in the fight against covid, that we should do what we were asking the public to do. there is only one exception of course and that is the testimony of dominic cummings, which is unsupported by any documentary evidence and which plainly cannot be relied upon. he has every motive to lie. not only has a committee found

nothing incriminating, it has gathered a huge amount of evidence which demonstrates very clearly that those working in the two shared my belief that the rules and guidance were being followed and that i received assurances there was no rule breaking. the best and fairest course now would be for the committee to publish all the evidence it has assembled so that parliament and public can judge for themselves, despite my repeated requests, the committee has refused to do this, as investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury, it has selected only to publish the evidence which it considers incriminating and not the evidence which i rely on and which answers the charges. and despite assurances that we would be permitted to add material that we rely on into the core bundle published today, late last night we were told the committee were not willing to publish a large number of extracts which i rely upon in my defence.

that is manifestly unfair. instead, and in the absence of any evidence that i deliberately misled parliament, the committee is trying to mount an argument that i must have known that the guidance was not being followed and that i buried my head as we were fighting covid, it was an unregulated belief that even if we were following the rules, we were somehow failing to follow the guidance. you have in yourfourth report suggested that it must have been obvious to me because you have the photographs, so let me deal with this point head on because it is nonsense. these photos have now been churned through the media for more than a yearand churned through the media for more than a year and it seems to be the view of the committee and sadly many members of the public that they show members of the public that they show me attending will breaking parties when no one was social distancing. they showed nothing of the kind. they showed nothing of the kind. they showed nothing of the kind. they show me giving a few words of thanks at a work event for a

departing colleague, they shall meet with my red box passing on the way to another meeting, or heading back into my flat to carry on working late into the night. they show a few people standing together, as permitted by the guidance, where full social distancing is not possible and where mitigating measures are taken, they show events which i was neverfined measures are taken, they show events which i was never fined for attending. i know the public will have had the impression that these four convert photos with their sinister pixelation is that have been obtained by the media. the vast majority were taken by the official number ten photographer. to say that they held illicit events in number ten while allowing these events to be immortalised by an official photographer is staggeringly implausible. there are a couple of photos where the event is captured on zoom as well as by the official

photographer which only reinforces the point, that we had an event that we believed was a licit or unauthorised, why would we have it on zoom what you never quite know who is on the other side? most important of all, if it was obvious to me that these events were contrary to the guidance and the rules, it must have been equally obvious to dozens of others, including the most senior officials including the most senior officials in the country, all of them, like me, responsible for drawing up the rules. it must have been obvious to others in the building, including the current prime minister. order, we will now _ the current prime minister. order, we will now suspend _ the current prime minister. order, we will now suspend the _ the current prime minister. order, we will now suspend the sitting . the current prime minister. order, l we will now suspend the sitting was the house _ we will now suspend the sitting was the house of commons votes and we will reconvene in 15 minutes. well, as we expected — will reconvene in 15 minutes. well, as we expected there _ will reconvene in 15 minutes. well, as we expected there is _ will reconvene in 15 minutes. well, as we expected there is the - will reconvene in 15 minutes. -jj as we expected there is the division bell that is calling mps to vote. they have been discussing this windsor framework, have to vote on that this afternoon, that is part of

how the post—brexit arrangements affect northern ireland. shall we not get too bogged down in that? let's speak to chris mason. we were listening to the introductory remarks by harriet harman. and then we heard borisjohnson setting out his stall, been very clear in his view. why would we have had zoom parties if they were illicit? why would we have had gatherings photographed at they weren't meant to take place?— to take place? what we have had at the overall parameters _ to take place? what we have had at the overall parameters of— to take place? what we have had at the overall parameters of the - the overall parameters of the discussion that will follow in much more detail in the coming hours. if you only cut the first 20 minutes, you only cut the first 20 minutes, you have got the thrust of what the whole conversation is about. in other words, as harriet harman said in those opening couple of minutes, this is an examination around the

whole issue of truth. that is why this matters, can parliament rely on leaders who appear at the dispatch box to tell the truth when they do so? a couple of other moments that let out. one was, because boris johnson will be attempting to be as disciplined as it can be on the camera for several hours, that brief flash, a glance at the watch. he was conscience that there was this break, this boat coming up on the brexit arrangements for northern ireland which was likely to, as it did, interrupt his testimony. and then from him, this pretty bullish defence that, as he said, hand on heart, he did not knowingly mislead, light to parliament. and the crux of the debate we are going to hear from him and the discussion of the argument in the coming hours, which is that he says listen to the logic, if you think we would have done all

this stuff illicitly, knowing it to be long, why would we have had the official photographer along and had people appearing on zoom at the same time. very striking language around his former adviser dominic cummings who has repeatedly questioned the veracity of borisjohnson's testimony. ifeel there veracity of borisjohnson's testimony. i feel there will be former sasaki mentioned as not getting bogged down in what is happening that has led to this break in the proceedings. it is worth mentioning borisjohnson is getting up, out of his chair, snatching the limelight as he is today from the conservative government in order to walk down the corridor and vote against rishi sunak�*s attempts to improve the brexit deal boris johnson himself had signed. the borisjohnson show appearing in all

sorts of colours today, with the proceedings getting back under way in the committee room in the next 15 or 20 minutes i suspect. that in the committee room in the next 15 or 20 minutes i suspect.— or 20 minutes i suspect. that is how lona we or 20 minutes i suspect. that is how long we are — or 20 minutes i suspect. that is how long we are expecting _ or 20 minutes i suspect. that is how long we are expecting it _ or 20 minutes i suspect. that is how long we are expecting it to - or 20 minutes i suspect. that is how long we are expecting it to take - or 20 minutes i suspect. that is how long we are expecting it to take for. long we are expecting it to take for everybody to file through the division lobbies and cast their vote on that windsor framework. we could spend all afternoon talking about that but we are joined by the former special adviser to the former prime minister may. thank you forjoining us, you worked for a previous prime minister, theresa may, a very different character from boris johnson. he unseated her and got himself a whopping 80 seat majority. what is going through your head as a former special adviser to a prime minister when you see borisjohnson in front of the select committee like this? , ., ., ., ~' like this? did afternoon, i think an bod like this? did afternoon, i think anybody who — like this? did afternoon, i think anybody who works _ like this? did afternoon, i think anybody who works in - like this? did afternoon, i think anybody who works in politics, | anybody who works in politics, whether you work for the prime minister or not, you want to see

trust in politics at all times and there is no discrepancy about what has happened in number ten. rules were broken and fines were issued, the question is whether the prime minister knowingly and intentionally and recklessly misled parliament. he was giving the start of his defence and that is what the committee is trying to get to the bottom of. talk to us about — trying to get to the bottom of. talk to us about the _ trying to get to the bottom of. talk to us about the nature, the scale, the scope of briefings that a sitting prime minister is going to be subjected to, even on a quiet day, it is a busyjob, but in the heights of a pandemic, in the middle of covid, those briefings must be coming at a prime minister left, right and centre. you coming at a prime minister left, right and centre.— coming at a prime minister left, right and centre. you are right, no two da s right and centre. you are right, no two days are _ right and centre. you are right, no two days are the _ right and centre. you are right, no two days are the same, _ right and centre. you are right, no two days are the same, every - right and centre. you are right, no two days are the same, every day| right and centre. you are right, no i two days are the same, every day is different, there are always changes to the diary, your schedule, things open at the last minute or are pulled out, you might have to take a

phone call from an international leader or be summoned to the house of commons to give a urgent question or statement on an evolving matter, things are chopping and changing all of the time so it is right to have a number of advisers around you to give you the best possible advice, and to make sure that they can make your life as easy and smooth as it can be because of the precious you are under on a day to day basis. what borisjohnson is saying today is that at all times he honestly believed the rules were being followed in the event he attended in number ten, whether it was saying goodbye to colleagues leaving the building, that is something the committee will want to get to the bottom of, to ensure whether he was actually being open and transparent about whether he knew those rules were being broken, because as he was saying, just before you went to berlin to political editor chris

mason, that he was constantly assured by colleagues that no rules were being broken. who assured by colleagues that no rules were being broken.— assured by colleagues that no rules were being broken. who checks that the advice that _ were being broken. who checks that the advice that a _ were being broken. who checks that the advice that a prime _ were being broken. who checks that the advice that a prime minister- were being broken. who checks that the advice that a prime minister is i the advice that a prime minister is getting from all different directions is consistent, it is not contradictory? it was very hard for all of us to keep abreast of the rules and regulations that were put in place during covid. we had those daily briefings at one point from the government and sometimes it was quite impenetrable for us to understand what we were meant to be doing and not doing. i understand what we were meant to be doing and not doing.— doing and not doing. i think that is riaht and doing and not doing. i think that is right and that _ doing and not doing. i think that is right and that is _ doing and not doing. i think that is right and that is why _ doing and not doing. i think that is right and that is why the _ doing and not doing. i think that is right and that is why the key - right and that is why the key discrepancy here is the committee published an interim report saying that the prime minister should have thought it was obvious that the rules were being broken. obviously, just as you pointed out, there are so many reels at semi—different times, that it might have been more difficult to keep up with the changing nature of the regulations that were put in place, but

obviously as the prime minister of the country, the man in charge of leading the country during the lockdown, implementing those regulations, it is a bone of contention whether the former prime minister knowingly and recklessly misled parliament when he was saying all the rules were followed at all times. ., , , . ., ., , ., times. former special adviser to the former prime _ times. former special adviser to the former prime minister— times. former special adviser to the former prime minister theresa - times. former special adviser to the former prime minister theresa may, thank you very much indeed for joining us here on the bbc news. i am joined in joining us here on the bbc news. i amjoined in the joining us here on the bbc news. i am joined in the studio by our political correspondent rob watson. also with us in the studio is dr alice lilly, who's a senior researcher at the institute for government, which is a nonpartisan think tank. and from westminster, we'rejoined byjames heale, who's the diary editor at the spectator magazine. thank you all for bearing with us this afternoon while the deal with this afternoon while the deal with this vote on the windsor framework. it is a fascinating spectacle,

seeing a former prime minister in front of this privileges select committee. forthose front of this privileges select committee. for those people who do not follow british politics as closely as you do, why is it so important? most people in the world. i will say the same _ most people in the world. i will say the same thing _ most people in the world. i will say the same thing i— most people in the world. i will say the same thing ijust_ most people in the world. i will say the same thing ijust said - most people in the world. i will say the same thing ijust said on - most people in the world. i will say the same thing ijust said on bbc. the same thing ijust said on bbc radio, _ the same thing ijust said on bbc radio, which— the same thing ijust said on bbc radio, which is— the same thing ijust said on bbc radio, which is that _ the same thing ijust said on bbc radio, which is that this - the same thing ijust said on bbc radio, which is that this is - the same thing ijust said on bbc radio, which is that this is an - radio, which is that this is an astonishing _ radio, which is that this is an astonishing moment - radio, which is that this is an astonishing moment in - radio, which is that this is ani astonishing moment in british politics. — astonishing moment in british politics, because _ astonishing moment in british politics, because number- astonishing moment in british| politics, because number one, astonishing moment in british- politics, because number one, this is a man. _ politics, because number one, this is a man. boris— politics, because number one, this is a man, borisjohnson, _ politics, because number one, this is a man, borisjohnson, who - politics, because number one, this is a man, borisjohnson, who my. is a man, borisjohnson, who my goodness — is a man, borisjohnson, who my goodness has _ is a man, borisjohnson, who my goodness has had _ is a man, borisjohnson, who my goodness has had an— is a man, borisjohnson, who my goodness has had an enormous. is a man, borisjohnson, who my- goodness has had an enormous effect on british— goodness has had an enormous effect on british politics. _ goodness has had an enormous effect on british politics. he _ goodness has had an enormous effect on british politics. he will— goodness has had an enormous effect on british politics. he will go - goodness has had an enormous effect on british politics. he will go down i on british politics. he will go down as one _ on british politics. he will go down as one of— on british politics. he will go down as one of the — on british politics. he will go down as one of the most _ on british politics. he will go down as one of the most important - as one of the most important politicians _ as one of the most important politicians since _ as one of the most important politicians since 1945- as one of the most importantj politicians since 1945 because without — politicians since 1945 because without him _ politicians since 1945 because without him britain— politicians since 1945 because without him britain would - politicians since 1945 because without him britain would notj politicians since 1945 because - without him britain would not have left the _ without him britain would not have left the european _ without him britain would not have left the european union, _ without him britain would not have left the european union, one - without him britain would not have left the european union, one of. without him britain would not havel left the european union, one of the most _ left the european union, one of the most extraordinary— left the european union, one of the most extraordinary developments. i left the european union, one of the - most extraordinary developments. and it has that _ most extraordinary developments. and it has that shakespearean _ most extraordinary developments. and it has that shakespearean quality - it has that shakespearean quality because — it has that shakespearean quality because everyone _ it has that shakespearean quality because everyone is _ it has that shakespearean quality because everyone is asking - because everyone is asking themselves. _ because everyone is asking themselves, is— because everyone is asking themselves, is this - because everyone is asking themselves, is this his - because everyone is asking - themselves, is this his waterloo moment? — themselves, is this his waterloo moment? the _ themselves, is this his waterloo moment? the moment - themselves, is this his waterloo

moment? the moment when i themselves, is this his waterlooj moment? the moment when his themselves, is this his waterloo - moment? the moment when his long political— moment? the moment when his long political career. — moment? the moment when his long political career, his— moment? the moment when his long political career, his many— moment? the moment when his long political career, his many dodges - political career, his many dodges and scrapes _ political career, his many dodges and scrapes finally _ political career, his many dodges and scrapes finally come - political career, his many dodges and scrapes finally come to - political career, his many dodges and scrapes finally come to a - political career, his many dodges . and scrapes finally come to a sticky end? _ and scrapes finally come to a sticky end? as— and scrapes finally come to a sticky end? as chris — and scrapes finally come to a sticky end? as chris mason _ and scrapes finally come to a sticky end? as chris mason political- and scrapes finally come to a stickyl end? as chris mason political editor and others — end? as chris mason political editor and others have _ end? as chris mason political editor and others have said, _ end? as chris mason political editor and others have said, this— end? as chris mason political editor and others have said, this is- end? as chris mason political editor and others have said, this is about i and others have said, this is about his character— and others have said, this is about his character and _ and others have said, this is about his character and leadership - and others have said, this is about his character and leadership and l his character and leadership and integrity. — his character and leadership and integrity. his— his character and leadership and integrity, his truthfulness. - his character and leadership and integrity, his truthfulness. i- his character and leadership and i integrity, his truthfulness. i think integrity, his truthfulness. i think in many— integrity, his truthfulness. i think in many ways, _ integrity, his truthfulness. i think in many ways. you _ integrity, his truthfulness. i think in many ways, you could - integrity, his truthfulness. i think in many ways, you could put- integrity, his truthfulness. i think in many ways, you could put outi integrity, his truthfulness. i think. in many ways, you could put out the sort of _ in many ways, you could put out the sort of thought _ in many ways, you could put out the sort of thought that _ in many ways, you could put out the sort of thought that however - in many ways, you could put out the sort of thought that however this . sort of thought that however this committee — sort of thought that however this committee goes, _ sort of thought that however this committee goes, some - sort of thought that however this committee goes, some are - sort of thought that however thisi committee goes, some are saying sort of thought that however this - committee goes, some are saying he is already— committee goes, some are saying he is already yesterday's _ committee goes, some are saying he is already yesterday's man. - committee goes, some are saying he is already yesterday's man. i- committee goes, some are saying he is already yesterday's man. i have i is already yesterday's man. i have seen _ is already yesterday's man. i have seen that— is already yesterday's man. i have seen that put _ is already yesterday's man. i have seen that put about _ is already yesterday's man. i have seen that put about that - is already yesterday's man. i have seen that put about that even - is already yesterday's man. i have seen that put about that even if. is already yesterday's man. i have seen that put about that even if it| seen that put about that even if it goes _ seen that put about that even if it goes well— seen that put about that even if it goes well it— seen that put about that even if it goes well it goes _ seen that put about that even if it goes well it goes badly, - seen that put about that even if it goes well it goes badly, but - goes well it goes badly, but something _ goes well it goes badly, but something of— goes well it goes badly, but something of the _ goes well it goes badly, but something of the ar - goes well it goes badly, but something of the ar has. goes well it goes badly, but . something of the ar has gone goes well it goes badly, but - something of the ar has gone out of the boris _ something of the ar has gone out of the borisjohnson _ something of the ar has gone out of the borisjohnson bubble _ something of the ar has gone out of the borisjohnson bubble but- something of the ar has gone out of the borisjohnson bubble but it - something of the ar has gone out of the borisjohnson bubble but it is - the borisjohnson bubble but it is still an— the borisjohnson bubble but it is still an extraordinary— the borisjohnson bubble but it is still an extraordinary moment. i the borisjohnson bubble but it is i still an extraordinary moment. the idea of— still an extraordinary moment. the idea of a _ still an extraordinary moment. the idea of a prime _ still an extraordinary moment. the idea of a prime minister— still an extraordinary moment. the| idea of a prime minister essentially in front— idea of a prime minister essentially in front of— idea of a prime minister essentially in front of his — idea of a prime minister essentially in front of his fellow _ idea of a prime minister essentially in front of his fellow mps _ idea of a prime minister essentially in front of his fellow mps being - in front of his fellow mps being judged — in front of his fellow mps being judged on _ in front of his fellow mps being judged on his— in front of his fellow mps being judged on his truthfulness - in front of his fellow mps being judged on his truthfulness over in front of his fellow mps being - judged on his truthfulness over one of the _ judged on his truthfulness over one of the most — judged on his truthfulness over one of the most important _ judged on his truthfulness over one of the most important to _ judged on his truthfulness over one of the most important to hit - judged on his truthfulness over one of the most important to hit this i of the most important to hit this country— of the most important to hit this country or— of the most important to hit this country or indeed _ of the most important to hit this country or indeed any— of the most important to hit this country or indeed any other - of the most important to hit this i country or indeed any other country the past _ country or indeed any other country the past ten — country or indeed any other country the past ten years _ country or indeed any other country the past ten years and _ country or indeed any other country the past ten years and that - country or indeed any other country the past ten years and that is - country or indeed any other country the past ten years and that is how. the past ten years and that is how on earth _ the past ten years and that is how on earth you — the past ten years and that is how on earth you deal— the past ten years and that is how on earth you deal with _ the past ten years and that is how on earth you deal with a - the past ten years and that is how on earth you deal with a global. on earth you deal with a global pandemic _ on earth you deal with a global pandemic. does _ on earth you deal with a global pandemic. does that _ on earth you deal with a global pandemic. does that make - on earth you deal with a global pandemic. does that make it. pandemic. does that make it relevant? _ pandemic. does that make it relevant?—

pandemic. does that make it relevant? ., ,, , ., ., relevant? huge way. thank you for settin: relevant? huge way. thank you for setting the — relevant? huge way. thank you for setting the context. _ relevant? huge way. thank you for setting the context. as _ relevant? huge way. thank you for setting the context. as you - relevant? huge way. thank you for setting the context. as you watch i setting the context. as you watch this select committee on action, what is going through your mind about the way the tone of it, the shape of it, the scope of what they are doing, because they are acting on behalf of parliament. they have notjust on behalf of parliament. they have not just sort of on behalf of parliament. they have notjust sort of come up with this as a ruse to get the chance to interview borisjohnson at length. there is a specific purpose they have been tasked with. the there is a specific purpose they have been tasked with. the house of commons as — have been tasked with. the house of commons as a _ have been tasked with. the house of commons as a whole _ have been tasked with. the house of commons as a whole voted - have been tasked with. the house of commons as a whole voted last - have been tasked with. the house of commons as a whole voted last year| commons as a whole voted last year to reverse this matter to the privileges committee. —— to refer this matter. what was striking on harriet harman's opening statement which open the hearing was the degree to which she emphasised that and made the point that this is a parliamentary process, about them really upholding their own rules and it is sort of beyond politics. the

tone of it so far, the degree to which harriet harman emphasised this, that borisjohnson has been put under oath which is something pretty unusual in healing sessions, it emphasises the gravity of the situation rob was talking about. you have seen that borisjohnson has gone back to the committee room, to cast his vote in the windsor framework vote. they are not yet deliberating and again it looks like a few chair is still empty, we will keep an eye on it. butjames, boris johnson is a divisive character, some will always support him, some never have. he was the person who delivered an 80 seat majority in the 2019 general election and as rob watson was saying got the brexit deal over the line. having seen him these first few minutes in the

opening statements, what is your sense of how he is approaching this because he is capable of a great deal of humour and bluster, but his tone is rather different this afternoon. tone is rather different this afternoon-— tone is rather different this afternoon. , ., . afternoon. yes, it is a balancing act where _ afternoon. yes, it is a balancing act where only _ afternoon. yes, it is a balancing act where only one _ afternoon. yes, it is a balancing act where only one hand - afternoon. yes, it is a balancing act where only one hand he - afternoon. yes, it is a balancing act where only one hand he has| afternoon. yes, it is a balancing i act where only one hand he has to try to _ act where only one hand he has to try to be _ act where only one hand he has to try to be quite contrite and began by saying — try to be quite contrite and began by saying he was apologising, previously said he was furious when he found _ previously said he was furious when he found that what happened, but as well as— he found that what happened, but as well as that kind of apology and saying _ well as that kind of apology and saying that to everyone in the country. — saying that to everyone in the country, he has to be quite defiant and basically say it is a bit of a stitch— and basically say it is a bit of a stitch up. _ and basically say it is a bit of a stitch up, being persecuted for all these _ stitch up, being persecuted for all these reasons, so he has to get the balancing _ these reasons, so he has to get the balancing act right and that will be a hard _ balancing act right and that will be a hard one. — balancing act right and that will be a hard one, but because it is a five-hour— a hard one, but because it is a five—hour session, what might work for a _ five—hour session, what might work for a media — five—hour session, what might work for a media interview or a shorter hour— for a media interview or a shorter hour and — for a media interview or a shorter hour and a — for a media interview or a shorter hour and a half might struggle over 4—5 hour and a half might struggle over 4-5 hours _ hour and a half might struggle over 4—5 hours of it plays out that long so although he might get away with life at— so although he might get away with life at a _ so although he might get away with life at a certain amount of time or an explanation that can you through an explanation that can you through a media _ an explanation that can you through a media briefing, this will be quite different —

a media briefing, this will be quite different. there is an element of playing _ different. there is an element of playing to — different. there is an element of playing to the base year which is the key— playing to the base year which is the key thing within the party, have the key thing within the party, have the party— the key thing within the party, have the party think he has been mistreated so it is to them he is making — mistreated so it is to them he is making the pitch in the hope that when _ making the pitch in the hope that when it— making the pitch in the hope that when it gets to the house he may have _ when it gets to the house he may have mps — when it gets to the house he may have mps who fight his corner. our olitical have mps who fight his corner. oj" political editor saying have mps who fight his corner.

contrary, — current prime minister. on the contrary, the overwhelming evidence you have _ contrary, the overwhelming evidence you have assembled is that these individuals believe that the rules and the — individuals believe that the rules and the guidance were being complied with and _ and the guidance were being complied with and what is so telling is the number— with and what is so telling is the number of— with and what is so telling is the number of officials who say the same thin- number of officials who say the same thing and _ number of officials who say the same thing and the total silence of the written _ thing and the total silence of the written or— thing and the total silence of the written or electronic records about concerns— written or electronic records about concerns anyone wanted to raise with me. concerns anyone wanted to raise with me it _ concerns anyone wanted to raise with me it would — concerns anyone wanted to raise with me. it would be one thing of the committee came here today and said, here are _ committee came here today and said, here are the _ committee came here today and said, here are the e—mails and what's apps that show— here are the e—mails and what's apps that show you were warned about rule breaking _ that show you were warned about rule breaking before you made the statement to the house. you haven't -ot statement to the house. you haven't got any— statement to the house. you haven't got any such— statement to the house. you haven't got any such evidence because it never— got any such evidence because it never happened. but if you now say instead _ never happened. but if you now say instead that it must have been obvious— instead that it must have been obvious that we were going against the rules— obvious that we were going against the rules and the guidance then let's be — the rules and the guidance then let's be clear about what you are saying — let's be clear about what you are saying. you're not only accusing me of lying. _ saying. you're not only accusing me of lying, you're accusing all the civil servants, advisers, mps of lying _ civil servants, advisers, mps of lying about what they believe that the time — lying about what they believe that the time to be going on. as far as i know— the time to be going on. as far as i know you're — the time to be going on. as far as i know you're not giving any of them the to—

know you're not giving any of them the to explain themselves with their own oral— the to explain themselves with their own oral evidence. i don't think you own oral evidence. idon't think you seriously— own oral evidence. i don't think you seriously mean to accuse those in the videos — seriously mean to accuse those in the videos of lying and i don't think— the videos of lying and i don't think you _ the videos of lying and i don't think you seriously mean to accuse me of— think you seriously mean to accuse me of lying — think you seriously mean to accuse me of lying. everybody knows there are some _ me of lying. everybody knows there are some features of this proceeding that are _ are some features of this proceeding that are extremely peculiar. i have the utmost— that are extremely peculiar. i have the utmost respect for you and the chair— the utmost respect for you and the chair but _ the utmost respect for you and the chair but you have said some things about— chair but you have said some things about this _ chair but you have said some things about this matter before reading the evidence _ about this matter before reading the evidence that plainly and wrongly prejudge the very evidence on which you are _ prejudge the very evidence on which you are adjudicating. i am going to put your— you are adjudicating. i am going to put your earlier remarks down to the general— put your earlier remarks down to the general cut— put your earlier remarks down to the general cut and thrust of politics and trust — general cut and thrust of politics and trust in what you have stressed that the _ and trust in what you have stressed that the outset, impartiality that the committee insists upon and insist— the committee insists upon and insist upon in your report. the committee _ insist upon in your report. the committee are supposed to be inguiring — committee are supposed to be inquiring strictly into what i have said about — inquiring strictly into what i have said about rule breaking rather than non—statutory guidance so much of this is— non—statutory guidance so much of this is theoretically irrelevant but iwill— this is theoretically irrelevant but twill take — this is theoretically irrelevant but i will take it on my side because as

i will take it on my side because as i said _ i will take it on my side because as i said in— i will take it on my side because as i said in the — i will take it on my side because as i said in the outset it is myjob at which _ i said in the outset it is myjob at which i _ i said in the outset it is myjob at which i want _ i said in the outset it is myjob at which i want to help you to understand why i said what i said to parliament— understand why i said what i said to parliament and whether i deliberately set out to deceive, and i emphatically did not. your first concern — i emphatically did not. your first concern is — i emphatically did not. your first concern is that i may have knowingly or recklessly deceived parliament when _ or recklessly deceived parliament when i _ or recklessly deceived parliament when i said the rules had not been broken _ when i said the rules had not been broken in — when i said the rules had not been broken in the guidance followed completely in number ten. when i said those — completely in number ten. when i said those words i was not trying to cover— said those words i was not trying to cover up— said those words i was not trying to cover up or— said those words i was not trying to cover up or conceal anything, i said what _ cover up or conceal anything, i said what i _ cover up or conceal anything, i said what i said — cover up or conceal anything, i said what i said in— cover up or conceal anything, i said what i said in good faith based on what _ what i said in good faith based on what i _ what i said in good faith based on what i honestly new and reasonably believed _ what i honestly new and reasonably believed at the time. that belief, what _ believed at the time. that belief, what was — believed at the time. that belief, what was in my head, was based on my understanding of the rules and guidance. that did not mean that i believed _ guidance. that did not mean that i believed that social distancing was complied _ believed that social distancing was complied with perfectly. that is because — complied with perfectly. that is because i— complied with perfectly. that is because i and others in the building did not— because i and others in the building did not believe it was necessary or

possible _ did not believe it was necessary or possible to — did not believe it was necessary or possible to have a two metre or one metre _ possible to have a two metre or one metre after — possible to have a two metre or one metre after during the 24th twenty20 electrified _ metre after during the 24th twenty20 electrified force field around every human— electrified force field around every human being. indeed, that is emphatically not what the guidance prescribes. it specifically says that social distancing should be maintained where possible, having regard _ maintained where possible, having regard to _ maintained where possible, having regard to the work environment and it is clear— regard to the work environment and it is clear that in number ten we had real— it is clear that in number ten we had real difficulties in working efficiently and at speed and then maintaining perfect social distancing. it is a cramped, narrow, 18tit-century— distancing. it is a cramped, narrow, 18th—century town house. we had no choice _ 18th—century town house. we had no choice but _ 18th—century town house. we had no choice but to meet the income a day out, seven— choice but to meet the income a day out, seven days a week in an unrelenting battle against covid. i had to— unrelenting battle against covid. i had to call— unrelenting battle against covid. i had to call many meetings on the spot and — had to call many meetings on the spot and to make a great many high—speed decisions. yes, we certainly— high—speed decisions. yes, we certainly did have the social

distancing, we gave way to each other— distancing, we gave way to each other in— distancing, we gave way to each other in the corridors and stairs, we gave — other in the corridors and stairs, we gave each other as wide a birth as we _ we gave each other as wide a birth as we could, — we gave each other as wide a birth as we could, but it would have been impossible — as we could, but it would have been impossible to have a drill sergeant measuring the distance between us all hours _ measuring the distance between us all hours of the day and night, so as the _ all hours of the day and night, so as the guidance prescribed, we had mitigations. when i spoke about the guidance _ mitigations. when i spoke about the guidance being followed i was talking — guidance being followed i was talking about all the things we did to stop _ talking about all the things we did to stop the spread of covid given where _ to stop the spread of covid given where we — to stop the spread of covid given where we were working. we had large numbers— where we were working. we had large numbers working from home, many meetings _ numbers working from home, many meetings at least partly on zoom, the limits— meetings at least partly on zoom, the limits on the numbers per room, sanitiser— the limits on the numbers per room, sanitiser dispensers everywhere, signs— sanitiser dispensers everywhere, signs on— sanitiser dispensers everywhere, signs on the walls telling you which way to— signs on the walls telling you which way to work. we kept windows open and worked — way to work. we kept windows open and worked outside as much as possible — and worked outside as much as possible. because of the particular difficulties caused by the working environment we had regular testing and the _ environment we had regular testing and the whole testing system was set ”p and the whole testing system was set up i believe on the third floor that went— up i believe on the third floor that went way— up i believe on the third floor that went way beyond what was required in

the guidance. if you say, how could i the guidance. if you say, how could i stand _ the guidance. if you say, how could i stand up— the guidance. if you say, how could i stand up in— the guidance. if you say, how could i stand up in parliament and be so categorical— i stand up in parliament and be so categorical about following the guidance, what was i thinking of? that was— guidance, what was i thinking of? that was what i was thinking of. i know— that was what i was thinking of. i know as — that was what i was thinking of. i know as you _ that was what i was thinking of. i know as you have just done will point _ know as you have just done will point to— know as you have just done will point to the photos and then the guidance — point to the photos and then the guidance and what i said and you will say— guidance and what i said and you will say it— guidance and what i said and you will say it must have been obvious that the _ will say it must have been obvious that the guidance was being breached, but that is simply not true _ breached, but that is simply not true my— breached, but that is simply not true. my beliefs and my remarks to parliament— true. my beliefs and my remarks to parliament were indeed based on my knowledge of those events that you have to _ knowledge of those events that you have to understand howl knowledge of those events that you have to understand how i saw them and what _ have to understand how i saw them and what i — have to understand how i saw them and what i saw during the period i was there — and what i saw during the period i was there. the vast majority of the events _ was there. the vast majority of the events relied upon by the committee are events _ events relied upon by the committee are events i — events relied upon by the committee are events i attended for ten, 15 minutes, — are events i attended for ten, 15 minutes, perhaps a maximum of 25 in one case _ minutes, perhaps a maximum of 25 in one case to _ minutes, perhaps a maximum of 25 in one case, to say farewell to a departing _ one case, to say farewell to a departing colleague. i know people around _ departing colleague. i know people around the country will look at

those — around the country will look at those events and think they look like the — those events and think they look like the very kind of events that they or— like the very kind of events that they or i — like the very kind of events that they or i were forbidding to everyone else. i will believe to the day i _ everyone else. i will believe to the day i die _ everyone else. i will believe to the day i die that it was myjob to thank— day i die that it was myjob to thank staff for what they had done, especially— thank staff for what they had done, especially during a crisis like covid — especially during a crisis like covid which kept coming back, which seem _ covid which kept coming back, which seem to _ covid which kept coming back, which seem to have no end, and when people's— seem to have no end, and when people's morale began to sink. but never— people's morale began to sink. but never mind — people's morale began to sink. but never mind what i think. the more important — never mind what i think. the more important point is that the police agreed — important point is that the police agreed. they did not find that my attendance of any of these farewell gatherings were against the rules. i did not— gatherings were against the rules. i did not know what the time that any of these _ did not know what the time that any of these events escalated beyond what was — of these events escalated beyond what was lawful after i left. there is of course — what was lawful after i left. there is of course one event for which i am the _ is of course one event for which i am the current prime minister received — am the current prime minister received a _ am the current prime minister received a fixed penalty notices. but it _ received a fixed penalty notices. but it never occurred to me or i think— but it never occurred to me or i think the — but it never occurred to me or i think the current prime minister at the time _

think the current prime minister at the time that the event was not in compliance — the time that the event was not in compliance with the rules and the guidance — compliance with the rules and the guidance. about 2:22pm on the 9th of june twenty20 i went into the cabinet — june twenty20 i went into the cabinet room where i worked after getting _ cabinet room where i worked after getting back from a long external visit~ _ getting back from a long external visit i_ getting back from a long external visit. i stood at my desk briefly before — visit. i stood at my desk briefly before another covered meeting began and had _ before another covered meeting began and had a _ before another covered meeting began and had a kind of salad, officials came _ and had a kind of salad, officials came in— and had a kind of salad, officials came in to — and had a kind of salad, officials came in to wish me happy birthday, nobody— came in to wish me happy birthday, nobody sang, the famous unionjack cake remained in its tupperware box unnoticed _ cake remained in its tupperware box unnoticed by me and was recently discovered — unnoticed by me and was recently discovered and eaten by my private secretaries — discovered and eaten by my private secretaries. we talked as you would expect _ secretaries. we talked as you would expect about covid and what we were doing _ expect about covid and what we were doing to _ expect about covid and what we were doing to beat the pandemic. it is a measure _ doing to beat the pandemic. it is a measure of— doing to beat the pandemic. it is a measure of how innocent we thought this meeting was that a slightly exaggerated version was briefed to the times, with singing and cake eating _ the times, with singing and cake eating and — the times, with singing and cake eating and yet nothing untoward was apparently detected by either the reporter— apparently detected by either the reporter or millions of eagle eyed readers. — reporter or millions of eagle eyed readers, so when i spoke to the

commons — readers, so when i spoke to the commons that did not for one second, on the _ commons that did not for one second, on the first— commons that did not for one second, on the first or — commons that did not for one second, on the first or 8th of december, not one second — on the first or 8th of december, not one second occurred to me that this event, _ one second occurred to me that this event, the _ one second occurred to me that this event, the one event for which i was fined. _ event, the one event for which i was fined. would — event, the one event for which i was fined, would later be found to be somehow — fined, would later be found to be somehow against the rules. and the same _ somehow against the rules. and the same goes — somehow against the rules. and the same goes for all the events i attended. my belief was that we were following _ attended. my belief was that we were following the rules and the guidance to the _ following the rules and the guidance to the best of our ability given the circumstances and that was what the guidance _ circumstances and that was what the guidance required. you may now say that i_ guidance required. you may now say that i was— guidance required. you may now say that i was being obtuse or oblivious and we _ that i was being obtuse or oblivious and we should have enforced social distancing — and we should have enforced social distancing more ruthlessly, and we could _ distancing more ruthlessly, and we could argue that back—and—forth. hindsight— could argue that back—and—forth. hindsight is a wonderful thing. we are talking about what i believe that the — are talking about what i believe that the time. as for the events of the 18th _ that the time. as for the events of the 18th of— that the time. as for the events of the 18th of december 2020, and the press _ the 18th of december 2020, and the press room, i was not there but my honest— press room, i was not there but my honest belief that it was within the rules— honest belief that it was within the rules was— honest belief that it was within the rules was based on what i was told

by senior— rules was based on what i was told by senior advisers. the fact that this was— by senior advisers. the fact that this was my honest belief is supported by the fact that so many other— supported by the fact that so many other people honestly believed that we were _ other people honestly believed that we were doing nothing wrong, and it is abundantly clear from the evidence _ is abundantly clear from the evidence produced by the committee that everyone was operating with the same _ that everyone was operating with the same understanding of the rules and the guidance. if you want further evidence — the guidance. if you want further evidence of what was going on in my head. _ evidence of what was going on in my head. look— evidence of what was going on in my head, look at the whatsapp to jack doyle _ head, look at the whatsapp to jack doyle where i positively urge him to -et doyle where i positively urge him to get the _ doyle where i positively urge him to get the truth out to the public about— get the truth out to the public about the september 18 event. it seems _ about the september 18 event. it seems so — about the september 18 event. it seems so unfairto about the september 18 event. it seems so unfair to me based on what i seems so unfair to me based on what i had _ seems so unfair to me based on what i had been _ seems so unfair to me based on what i had been told that the event was being _ i had been told that the event was being presented as a purely social gathering — being presented as a purely social gathering on what i knew to be a monumentally busy day by the media department where they were coping with the _ department where they were coping with the emergence that they of the kent variant of covid and what some saw as _ kent variant of covid and what some saw as the _ kent variant of covid and what some saw as the risk of an audio brexit. that— saw as the risk of an audio brexit. that was— saw as the risk of an audio brexit. that was why i was inclined to

believe — that was why i was inclined to believe that this event must be in line with — believe that this event must be in line with the rules and guidance and that is— line with the rules and guidance and that is why— line with the rules and guidance and that is why i said what i said on december— that is why i said what i said on december the 1st. as for my statements on december the 8th of the committee is concerned i may have _ the committee is concerned i may have misled the house when i say i was repeatedly assured that the event _ was repeatedly assured that the event was in accordance with the rules _ event was in accordance with the rules i_ event was in accordance with the rules. i don't understand his point. you rules. idon't understand his point. you can— rules. i don't understand his point. you can see — rules. i don't understand his point. you can see from the evidence that i believed _ you can see from the evidence that i believed these assurances more than once and _ believed these assurances more than once and throw more than one person. my statement was entirely accurate. the committee criticises the fact that i_ the committee criticises the fact that i had — the committee criticises the fact that i had not received assurances in relation — that i had not received assurances in relation to the guidance but i hadn't — in relation to the guidance but i hadn't said i had. i said what i said _ hadn't said i had. i said what i said about _ hadn't said i had. i said what i said about the guidance based on my own experience and belief. the committee is critical of the fact i did not— committee is critical of the fact i did not receive assurances in respect — did not receive assurances in respect of— did not receive assurances in respect of any event other than the december— respect of any event other than the december the 18th event, but i never said that _ december the 18th event, but i never said that i _ december the 18th event, but i never said that i had to. the committee seems _

said that i had to. the committee seems at — said that i had to. the committee seems at times to be saying in your fourth _ seems at times to be saying in your fourth report that i should not be relying _ fourth report that i should not be relying on— fourth report that i should not be relying on the advice of political advisers — relying on the advice of political advisers or even officials. this is ridiculous — advisers or even officials. this is ridiculous i_ advisers or even officials. this is ridiculous. i was the prime minister of the _ ridiculous. i was the prime minister of the uk — ridiculous. i was the prime minister of the uk i— ridiculous. i was the prime minister of the uk. i was trying to run the country— of the uk. i was trying to run the country during a pandemic. on the evening _ country during a pandemic. on the evening in— country during a pandemic. on the evening in question 30th of december i was dealing with the emergence of the omicron variant and the glowing clamour— the omicron variant and the glowing clamour for— the omicron variant and the glowing clamour for restrictions on another christmas — clamour for restrictions on another christmas i— clamour for restrictions on another christmas. i could not drop what i was doing — christmas. i could not drop what i was doing and going begin a personal investigation into what sounded like a daily— investigation into what sounded like a daily mirror trial about an event that was— a daily mirror trial about an event that was now almost a year old. i had to— that was now almost a year old. i had to rely— that was now almost a year old. i had to rely on and was fully entitled _ had to rely on and was fully entitled to rely on what i was told by my— entitled to rely on what i was told by my senior trusted advisers, government would be paralysed if ministers — government would be paralysed if ministers were not able to do so. ministers were notable to do so. finaliy— ministers were not able to do so. finally the — ministers were not able to do so. finally the committee criticises the manner— finally the committee criticises the manner in— finally the committee criticises the manner in which i corrected the record — manner in which i corrected the record i— manner in which i corrected the record. i corrected the record on the day— record. i corrected the record on the day of— record. i corrected the record on the day of so great's final report

and 60s— the day of so great's final report and 60s after the completion of the police _ and 60s after the completion of the police investigation. of the committee view was that i should have _ committee view was that i should have come — committee view was that i should have come to the house and provided an inevitably incomplete account while _ an inevitably incomplete account while a _ an inevitably incomplete account while a government or police investigation was going on, including into the events i hadn't even _ including into the events i hadn't even intended, i fundamentally disagree. at all times i was entirely— disagree. at all times i was entirely transparent with the house. i entirely transparent with the house. i made _ entirely transparent with the house. i made it— entirely transparent with the house. i made it clear that i did not intend — i made it clear that i did not intend to _ i made it clear that i did not intend to comment on any of the factual— intend to comment on any of the factual matters until the investigation had been concluded. i kept the _ investigation had been concluded. i kept the house regularly updated and as soon— kept the house regularly updated and as soon as _ kept the house regularly updated and as soon as the investigations were complete — as soon as the investigations were complete i— as soon as the investigations were complete i provided a full correction of my honest but inadvertently misleading statement. i apologise, i apologise for inadvertently misleading this house but to— inadvertently misleading this house but to say— inadvertently misleading this house but to say i did it recklessly is completely untrue as the evidence shows _ completely untrue as the evidence shows. whatever we got wrong i believe — shows. whatever we got wrong i believe that officials in number ten and the _ believe that officials in number ten and the cabinet office, indeed all

whitehall departments, should be immensely proud of their efforts to protect— immensely proud of their efforts to protect this country from a loathsome disease. when i point out to this _ loathsome disease. when i point out to this committee that this disease almost _ to this committee that this disease almost killed me it is only to stress — almost killed me it is only to stress how seriously i took the measures— stress how seriously i took the measures we needed to stop it spreading as i believe everyone did in number— spreading as i believe everyone did in numberten, and downing spreading as i believe everyone did in number ten, and downing street. it in number ten, and downing street. it was _ in number ten, and downing street. it was those — in number ten, and downing street. it was those officials who organised and took _ it was those officials who organised and took the country through the lockdowns, which whatever people may say about _ lockdowns, which whatever people may say about them now were essential for public— say about them now were essential for public health. it was those officials — for public health. it was those officials who procure the vaccines and made — officials who procure the vaccines and made sure it was the first country— and made sure it was the first country to— and made sure it was the first country to put an effective vaccine in the _ country to put an effective vaccine in the arms— country to put an effective vaccine in the arms of a patient and those officials _ in the arms of a patient and those officials who oversaw the fastest vaccine — officials who oversaw the fastest vaccine roll—out in europe. it was thanks— vaccine roll—out in europe. it was thanks to — vaccine roll—out in europe. it was thanks to those officials we were able to _ thanks to those officials we were able to come out of luck then faster than any— able to come out of luck then faster than any other european country with all the _ than any other european country with all the social and economic benefits that entailed, and still to have lower— that entailed, and still to have lower excess mortality rate than many _ lower excess mortality rate than many comparable countries. i am proud _

many comparable countries. i am proud to— many comparable countries. i am proud to have known and worked with those _ proud to have known and worked with those officials during one of the most _ those officials during one of the most difficult times we can remember. i most difficult times we can remember. lam proud most difficult times we can remember. i am proud to have given them _ remember. i am proud to have given them leadership and that is what i believe _ them leadership and that is what i believe i_ them leadership and that is what i believe i was doing at every one of the events— believe i was doing at every one of the events in question and i trust that the — the events in question and i trust that the committee will be fair to them. _ that the committee will be fair to them. fair— that the committee will be fair to them, fair to that the committee will be fair to them, fairto me, fairto the evidence— them, fairto me, fairto the evidence about what we die and you believed _ evidence about what we die and you believed and conclude that i did not wittingly— believed and conclude that i did not wittingly mislead the house of commons or recklessly mislead the house _ commons or recklessly mislead the house of— commons or recklessly mislead the house of commons and that no contempt — house of commons and that no contempt has been committed. thank you, contempt has been committed. thank you. mr— contempt has been committed. thank you, mrjohnson. before i turn to our questions there is one issue that you — our questions there is one issue that you raised which your lawyers wrote _ that you raised which your lawyers wrote to _ that you raised which your lawyers wrote to me about on monday and which _ wrote to me about on monday and which i _ wrote to me about on monday and which i have replied to you this morning — which i have replied to you this morning about. you raised the issue of the _ morning about. you raised the issue of the importance of the committee being _ of the importance of the committee being fair— of the importance of the committee being fair to officials and we would very much— being fair to officials and we would very much agree with you about that and that— very much agree with you about that and that is— very much agree with you about that and that is why we are not content

with putting into evidence interview notes _ with putting into evidence interview notes that— with putting into evidence interview notes that officials gave to sir gray — notes that officials gave to sir gray until such time as those officials _ gray until such time as those officials had a chance to check those — officials had a chance to check those interview notes and to agree however _ those interview notes and to agree however they are accurate and then they can _ however they are accurate and then they can be — however they are accurate and then they can be supported by statement of truth. _ they can be supported by statement of truth, which is like an oath and then— of truth, which is like an oath and then they— of truth, which is like an oath and then they can be put into evidence to us _ then they can be put into evidence to us if— then they can be put into evidence to us. , ., ., ~' then they can be put into evidence to us. ,~. ., ~ ., then they can be put into evidence to us. ,, ., ~' ., , to us. if you would like to identify some officials _ to us. if you would like to identify some officials and _ to us. if you would like to identify some officials and some - to us. if you would like to identify some officials and some aspects. to us. if you would like to identify i some officials and some aspects of the student —— sir gray interview notes that he would like to get under statement of truth and submit to this inquiry, the inquiry doesn't finish with this evidence session and you are perfectly at liberty to do that and i would invite you to do that and we can consider it. i will that and we can consider it. i will do that, i — that and we can consider it. i will do that, j think _ that and we can consider it. i will do that, i think there _ that and we can consider it. i will do that, i think there are - that and we can consider it. i will do that, i think there are about 16 points— do that, i think there are about 16 points we — do that, i think there are about 16 points we wish to elucidate and it would _ points we wish to elucidate and it would be — points we wish to elucidate and it would be helpful to do that. thank ou. we would be helpful to do that. thank you- we are _ would be helpful to do that. thank you. we are putting _ would be helpful to do that. thank you. we are putting now— would be helpful to do that. thank you. we are putting now in - would be helpful to do that. thank you. we are putting now in the - you. we are putting now in the public domain your lawyer's letter to me and my reply this morning so

people can be clear about that. we now begin our questions starting with those which cover the six gatherings which the committee thinks are most relevant to an inquiry. when asked in the house of commons about gatherings in number ten from december 2021 onwards you told me how is that covid rules and guidance were followed completely and at all times. following the in may 2022 of the report you had commissioned into gatherings on government premises you continue to maintain that it was certainly the case that the rules and the guidance were followed at gatherings you had attended to wish farewell to staff leaving number ten. we will put to you what the covid rules and guidance were on those six dates, what you knew about the gatherings that took place on each of those states and their compliance with these who think i then enforced. we

will start by looking at two leaving gatherings that you attended in november 2020. we will primarily focus on these gatherings compliance with covid workplace guidance in place at the time. these gatherings took place during a national lockdown in england, the legal rules enforced to prevent the spread of covid included restrictions on indoor gatherings of two or more people. the workplace guidance in force at that time stated that there should be social distancing of two metres in the workplace wherever possible. and that only absolutely necessary participants should physically attend meetings. i will now invite sir bernard jenkin to ask the first question. figs now invite sir bernard jenkin to ask the first question.— the first question. as the chair described _ the first question. as the chair described we _ the first question. as the chair described we will _ the first question. as the chair described we will first - the first question. as the chair| described we will first consider what _ described we will first consider what knowledge you had of the roles and the _ what knowledge you had of the roles and the guidance in place at the

time _ and the guidance in place at the time at — and the guidance in place at the time at each of the events you attended — time at each of the events you attended had knowledge. by reminding ourselves— attended had knowledge. by reminding ourselves of what you are telling the country about the rules and guidance — the country about the rules and guidance and then we will ask about those _ guidance and then we will ask about those gatherings. you were aware of the importance of following the guidance the government had issued to keep _ guidance the government had issued to keep workplaces safe. indeed, you previously— to keep workplaces safe. indeed, you previously told the house of commons on the _ previously told the house of commons on the 2nd _ previously told the house of commons on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote. _ on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote. it— on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote. it is— on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote, it is very important we get people _ quote, it is very important we get people back into the workplace in a covid _ people back into the workplace in a covid secure way. and then on the 9th of— covid secure way. and then on the 9th of november 2020, less than a week— 9th of november 2020, less than a week before the first of the gatherings i will ask you about you said that _ gatherings i will ask you about you said that a — gatherings i will ask you about you said that a covid press conference, neither— said that a covid press conference, neither mass testing nor progress on vaccines— neither mass testing nor progress on vaccines are — neither mass testing nor progress on vaccines are at the present time a substitute — vaccines are at the present time a substitute for the national restrictions for social distancing and all— restrictions for social distancing and all the rest, restrictions for social distancing and allthe rest, so restrictions for social distancing and all the rest, so it is all the more — and all the rest, so it is all the more important to follow the rules. and that _ more important to follow the rules. and that the press conference you said in— and that the press conference you said in this. — and that the press conference you said in this, you regularly defeated

the phrase, hands, face, space. there— the phrase, hands, face, space. there can — the phrase, hands, face, space. there can be no doubt you understood what the _ there can be no doubt you understood what the guidance and rules meant and were _ what the guidance and rules meant and were intended to achieve, yes or no? yes _ and were intended to achieve, yes or no? yes 0n— and were intended to achieve, yes or no? yes. on the 13th of november 2020. _ no? yes. on the 13th of november 2020, which we saw carson west asking _ 2020, which we saw carson west asking about on the film earlier, there _ asking about on the film earlier, there was— asking about on the film earlier, there was an impromptu leaving gathering for your then director of communications. this was held in the vestibule _ communications. this was held in the vestibule outside the press office in numberten. between 15 vestibule outside the press office in number ten. between 15 and 20 people _ in number ten. between 15 and 20 people were present and you gave a speech— people were present and you gave a speech and the evidence of this is on page _ speech and the evidence of this is on page nine of the evidence bundle. do you _ on page nine of the evidence bundle. do you accept that these facts are correct? _ do you accept that these facts are correct? . do you accept that these facts are correct?- we _ do you accept that these facts are correct? yes. we will now show the ictures correct? yes. we will now show the pictures which _ correct? j23 we will now show the pictures which you have correct? yj23 we will now show the pictures which you have made your comments — pictures which you have made your comments about but never the less we will ask— comments about but never the less we will ask you _ comments about but never the less we will ask you about them. the pixelated photos, the pictures show you with _

pixelated photos, the pictures show you with at — pixelated photos, the pictures show you with at least 6—8 other people standing _ you with at least 6—8 other people standing in close proximity. i want to ask— standing in close proximity. i want to ask first— standing in close proximity. i want to ask first about this gathering's compliance with the guidance. you told the _ compliance with the guidance. you told the house of commons as recently— told the house of commons as recently as the 25th of may 2022, which _ recently as the 25th of may 2022, which was — recently as the 25th of may 2022, which was the day of the publication of the _ which was the day of the publication of the sinclair report, that it was, and i_ of the sinclair report, that it was, and i guote. _ of the sinclair report, that it was, and i quote, certainly the case that guidance _ and i quote, certainly the case that guidance had been followed at gatherings you attended to wish star farewelt _ gatherings you attended to wish star farewell. , gatherings you attended to wish star farewell. yes. the photographs show a lack of social _ farewell. yj23 the photographs show a lack of social distancing of two metres — a lack of social distancing of two metres which was required by the rules— metres which was required by the rules at— metres which was required by the rules at the time. do you accept you were _ rules at the time. do you accept you were present at this gathering and people _ were present at this gathering and people were not socially distanced when _ people were not socially distanced when you — people were not socially distanced when you are there?— people were not socially distanced when you are there? thank you very much, sir bernard. _ when you are there? thank you very much, sir bernard. i— when you are there? thank you very much, sir bernard. i don't _ when you are there? thank you very much, sir bernard. i don't think - when you are there? thank you very much, sir bernard. i don't think so i much, sir bernard. i don't think so that people were not making an effort to distance themselves socially from each other and that happens the whole time in number ten. i think that the guidance by

november 2020 stipulated that you should maintain one metre social distancing where possible with mitigation where two metres is not viable. at all stages, the guidance was intended to be implemented where possible. and that is absolutely clear from the guidance. as possible. and that is absolutely clearfrom the guidance. as i said in my introduction, it was always the case that we understood that the confines of number ten were going to make it impossible the whole time to enforce total social distancing as it were with an electric force field around every individual. this meeting happened an impromptu it had to happen because on november 13, two senior members... and people ask

why was this happening? why was it necessary? it was necessary because two senior members of staff, the effective chief of staff and the director of communications, had both left the building were about to leave the building and pretty acrimonious circumstances, or potentially acrimonious circumstances. it was important for me to be there and to give reassurance. the salient point i would venture to make is that following that gathering, no fine was issued to me, my presence was felt by the met not to be unlawful. they agreed that it was a work—related event and i believe it was absolutely essential for work purposes. t was absolutely essential for work --uroses. . . w' was absolutely essential for work n-uroses. ., ., ," ., ,., purposes. i am asking about the uidance. purposes. i am asking about the guidance. and _ purposes. i am asking about the guidance. and i _ purposes. i am asking about the guidance. and i am _ purposes. i am asking about the guidance. and i am telling - purposes. i am asking about the guidance. and i am telling you i| guidance. and i am telling you i believe the _ guidance. and i am telling you i believe the guidance... - guidance. and i am telling you i believe the guidance... what i guidance. and i am telling you ll believe the guidance... what you have to understand is when i looked at that group, it did not for one second occurs to me that we were in

breach of the guidance given the logistical difficulties we faced in number ten and they need to have an urgent meeting such as this. you said, ou urgent meeting such as this. you said, you didn't _ urgent meeting such as this. you said, you didn't quite answer my question— said, you didn't quite answer my question to _ said, you didn't quite answer my question to begin with, but you suggested the picture doesn't show that people were not making an effort _ that people were not making an effort to — that people were not making an effort to comply with the guidance. i am effort to comply with the guidance. i am just— effort to comply with the guidance. i am just asking whether the evidence _ i am just asking whether the evidence is that the guidance was being _ evidence is that the guidance was being complied with. i�*m evidence is that the guidance was being complied with. i'm suggesting i believe the — being complied with. i'm suggesting i believe the guidance _ being complied with. i'm suggesting i believe the guidance is _ being complied with. i'm suggesting i believe the guidance is being - i believe the guidance is being complied with. i i believe the guidance is being complied with.— i believe the guidance is being comlied with. . ., ., ., complied with. i will come to that. it must have _ complied with. i will come to that. it must have occurred _ complied with. i will come to that. it must have occurred to _ complied with. i will come to that. it must have occurred to you - complied with. i will come to that. it must have occurred to you that. it must have occurred to you that given _ it must have occurred to you that given they — it must have occurred to you that given they had worked with social distancing of two metres that they might— distancing of two metres that they might have been in breach of the social— might have been in breach of the social distancing guidance either while _ social distancing guidance either while at — social distancing guidance either while at the gathering or indeed, as you reflected on this afterwards as the storm — you reflected on this afterwards as the storm broke around your head, you must— the storm broke around your head, you must have been thinking, i wonder— you must have been thinking, i wonder whether that was really compliant with the guidance. sir compliant with the guidance. bernard, compliant with the guidance. 5 " bernard, forgive me but i must forgive you on a technical point. ——

correct you on a technical point. afterjune four, 2020 the guidance was changed to the objective was to maintain social distancing at one metre with mitigation is two metres... t metre with mitigation is two metres- - -— metre with mitigation is two metres... . ., ., ., metres... i will come to that. i think the _ metres... i will come to that. i thinkthe first _ metres... i will come to that. i think the first point _ metres... i will come to that. i think the first point is - metres... i will come to that. i think the first point is that - metres... i will come to that. i think the first point is that it i metres... i will come to that. i think the first point is that it is j think the first point is that it is fair to— think the first point is that it is fair to say— think the first point is that it is fair to say that you didn't say that we did _ fair to say that you didn't say that we did every effort to comply with the guidance in the house of commons and you _ the guidance in the house of commons and you didn't say. i�*m the guidance in the house of commons and you didn't say-— and you didn't say. i'm saying we follow the _ and you didn't say. i'm saying we follow the guidance _ and you didn't say. i'm saying we follow the guidance completely. | and you didn't say. i'm saying we i follow the guidance completely. we will come to this in a minute. you can't expect human beings in an environment like number ten to have, as it were, an invisible electrified fence around them. they will occasionally drift into each other�*s orbit. when i saw that, it did not mean to me that we had breached the

guidance, it meant we were following the guidance to the best of our ability which is what the guidance provided for. the guidance provides for freedom provided for. the guidance provides forfreedom is provided for. the guidance provides for freedom is within the practical framework of the operation of the business to decide how you are going to implement the guidance, the measures that you referred to at the outset i things that need usually to be complied with. businesses are entitled and asked to decide what practical considerations they wish to give to implementing the guidance and that is what we did. this is the crucial thing, and that is what we did. this is the crucialthing, if and that is what we did. this is the crucial thing, if i may say so, why i believed, when i stood up on december the 1st, that the guidance was followed completely at all times, what picture i had in my head, and why that doesn't conflict with that picture, the answer is i knew from my direct personal experience that we were doing a huge

amount to stop the spread of covid within the building. we had sanitisers, windows were kept open, we had people working outdoors where ever they could, we had a zoom at meetings, restrictions on people in rooms, perspex screens between desks. and above all, we had testing, regular testing which went way beyond what the guidance described and which, in my view, helped mitigate the difficulties we had in maintaining perfect social distancing. if had in maintaining perfect social distancinr. , ., had in maintaining perfect social distancin. , ., had in maintaining perfect social distancin. ., ., ., distancing. if you said all that at the time to _ distancing. if you said all that at the time to the _ distancing. if you said all that at the time to the house _ distancing. if you said all that at the time to the house of- distancing. if you said all that at - the time to the house of commons, we probably— the time to the house of commons, we probably wouldn't be sitting here, but you _ probably wouldn't be sitting here, but you didn't. the question is about— but you didn't. the question is about what the guidance said and i noticed _ about what the guidance said and i noticed you are taking little advice at that _ noticed you are taking little advice at that point on the question of the guidance _ at that point on the question of the guidance. can i read to you from page _

guidance. can i read to you from page six— guidance. can i read to you from page six of— guidance. can i read to you from page six of the bundle what the guidance — page six of the bundle what the guidance says, you must maintain social— guidance says, you must maintain social distancing in the workplace were _ social distancing in the workplace were ever — social distancing in the workplace were ever possible, where the social distancing _ were ever possible, where the social distancing guidelines cannot be followed in relation to a particular activity. _ followed in relation to a particular activity, the businesses should be considered whether that activity be redesigned to maintain a two metre social— redesigned to maintain a two metre social distance or meet up with risk mitigation — social distance or meet up with risk mitigation is where two metres is not viable — mitigation is where two metres is not viable. the mitigating actions include _ not viable. the mitigating actions include using screens or barriers to separate _ include using screens or barriers to separate people from each other. where _ separate people from each other. where in — separate people from each other. where in the picture as those screens— where in the picture as those screens or— where in the picture as those screens or barriers?- where in the picture as those screens or barriers? there were screens or barriers? there were screens and _ screens or barriers? there were screens and barriers _ screens or barriers? there were screens and barriers in - screens or barriers? there were screens and barriers in the - screens or barriers? there were - screens and barriers in the adjacent press room. screens and barriers in the ad'acent press room.— screens and barriers in the ad'acent| press room.�* this press room. they are not here. this is an impromptu _ press room. they are not here. this is an impromptu gathering - press room. they are not here. this is an impromptu gathering which . press room. they are not here. this is an impromptu gathering which i l press room. they are not here. this i is an impromptu gathering which i am thanking staff, at least one member of staff, for his contribution during covid. i believe it was an important part of myjob to do that, that was the best place to do it, i accept that perfect social

distancing is not being observed, but that does not mean that what we were doing, in my view, is incompatible with the guidance. the guidance specifically allows for workplace freedoms to decide how to implement it and the operative conditional is where possible. do not for one moment believe that people in number ten did not operate social distancing because they did. and he took great efforts, in my view and to my memory, to stay apart from each other, but that didn't mean they were able to stay apart from each other the whole time. that did not conflict with the guidance. nobody is devaluing the efforts of anybody _ nobody is devaluing the efforts of anybody in numberten nobody is devaluing the efforts of anybody in number ten during covid, including _ anybody in number ten during covid, including eu and the fabulous service — including eu and the fabulous service you gave as prime minister during _ service you gave as prime minister during the — service you gave as prime minister during the pandemic. it is our obligation. no, i

during the pandemic. it is our obligation. no, lam halfway through a question _ obligation. no, lam halfway through a question. all i am saying is we have _ a question. all i am saying is we have got— a question. all i am saying is we have got to _ a question. all i am saying is we have got to find out and establish in our— have got to find out and establish in our minds whether what you told the house — in our minds whether what you told the house of commons was strictly accurate _ the house of commons was strictly accurate and the guidance goes on to say, accurate and the guidance goes on to say. where _ accurate and the guidance goes on to say, where social distancing guidelines cannot be followed in full, guidelines cannot be followed in full. even — guidelines cannot be followed in full, even through redesigning activities, businesses should consider— activities, businesses should consider whether that activity should — consider whether that activity should continue for the businesses to operate — should continue for the businesses to operate and take all the mitigating actions possible to reduce — mitigating actions possible to reduce transmission between staff. nobody— reduce transmission between staff. nobody is _ reduce transmission between staff. nobody is disputing it is the right thing _ nobody is disputing it is the right thing to— nobody is disputing it is the right thing to thank your staff, the question— thing to thank your staff, the question is whether what you said about— question is whether what you said about this — question is whether what you said about this way of thanking your staff. _ about this way of thanking your staff. in— about this way of thanking your staff, in the house of commons, was strictly— staff, in the house of commons, was strictly accurate, indeed may have been _ strictly accurate, indeed may have been misleading. that is what we are asking _ been misleading. that is what we are asking the _ been misleading. that is what we are asking. the guidance does not say you can _ asking. the guidance does not say you can have a thank you party and have _ you can have a thank you party and have as _ you can have a thank you party and have as many people in the room as you like _ have as many people in the room as you like the — have as many people in the room as you like. the guidance doesn't say that _ you like. the guidance doesn't say that. �* , .,

you like. the guidance doesn't say that. �*, ., ., you like. the guidance doesn't say that. �*, ., . ,, ., ., that. let's go back over that. i believed that _ that. let's go back over that. i believed that this _ that. let's go back over that. i believed that this event - that. let's go back over that. i believed that this event was i that. let's go back over that. i i believed that this event was not only reasonably necessary but essential for work purposes, for the reasons i have given. i have described the constraints in which we were operating in number ten, if you wanted to have a rapid gathering to thank people, this was the place to thank people, this was the place to do it. there are not in fact that many people there, i accept the pixelation makes it difficult to work out exactly who is where, i accept that perfect social distancing... accept that perfect social distancing. . ._ accept that perfect social distancing... accept that perfect social distancin . .. ., ., ., distancing... you have got the un-pixelated _ distancing... you have got the un-pixelated photographs. - distancing... you have got the | un-pixelated photographs. the distancing... you have got the - un-pixelated photographs. the public cannot see that. _ un-pixelated photographs. the public cannot see that. i _ un-pixelated photographs. the public cannot see that. i accept _ un-pixelated photographs. the public cannot see that. i accept not - cannot see that. i accept not everybody is perfectly socially distanced in that picture, but that did not mean to me, when i stood up in the house of commons and said the guidance was followed quickly, i was not thinking of that event and thinking that somehow contravened

the guidance. we were making a huge effort to follow the guidance. that was my memory and that is why i said what i said. j j was my memory and that is why i said whatlsaid. j j j was my memory and that is why i said what i said-— what i said. this is the purpose of the session. _ what i said. this is the purpose of the session, that _ what i said. this is the purpose of the session, that you _ what i said. this is the purpose of the session, that you can - what i said. this is the purpose of the session, that you can make i what i said. this is the purpose of. the session, that you can make the case you _ the session, that you can make the case you are — the session, that you can make the case you are making. can we move on to examine _ case you are making. can we move on to examine the compliance with the covid _ to examine the compliance with the covid ruies— to examine the compliance with the covid rules at this gathering. as heard _ covid rules at this gathering. as heard in— covid rules at this gathering. as heard in the collapse earlier, you told the — heard in the collapse earlier, you told the house the rules were followed at all times so you must have _ followed at all times so you must have thought the gathering was reasonably necessary for work purposes _ reasonably necessary for work purposes. as was then required by the regulations. we know that the gathering — the regulations. we know that the gathering attracted a fixed penalty notice _ gathering attracted a fixed penalty notice that the police have judged it broke _ notice that the police have judged it broke the rules. why did you think— it broke the rules. why did you think it — it broke the rules. why did you think it was within the rules? | think it was within the rules? thought it think it was within the rules? i thought it was essential for work purposes or reasonably necessary because for the reason i have given. november the 13th was a day in which two senior officials, senior advisers, in the government had left theirjobs in very difficult and challenging circumstances, and it

was necessary to steady the ship, it was necessary to steady the ship, it was necessary to show there was no rank or, that the business of the government was being carried on. that is what we had to do. that is what i had to do. it is that is what we had to do. that is what i had to do.— what i had to do. it is what you said about _ what i had to do. it is what you said about it _ what i had to do. it is what you said about it to _ what i had to do. it is what you said about it to the _ what i had to do. it is what you said about it to the house - what i had to do. it is what you said about it to the house of i said about it to the house of commons, that is what matters. we know _ commons, that is what matters. we know it _ commons, that is what matters. we know it was — commons, that is what matters. we know it was a — commons, that is what matters. we know it was a leading event for a member— know it was a leading event for a member of— know it was a leading event for a member of staff, the photographs we have just _ member of staff, the photographs we have just seen do not seem to show any actual— have just seen do not seem to show any actual work being done. why did it not— any actual work being done. why did it not occurred to you that it at least _ it not occurred to you that it at least might have been in breach of the regulations because it was not reasonably necessary for work places? — reasonably necessary for work laces? , reasonably necessary for work laces? j i ., reasonably necessary for work laces? j places? did you say did it occur it mi r ht places? did you say did it occur it miht not places? did you say did it occur it might not be _ places? did you say did it occur it might not be reasonably - places? did you say did it occur it i might not be reasonably necessary? it didn't occur to me for one second. jj , it didn't occur to me for one second-— it didn't occur to me for one second. j, .j .j j second. the way that event was carried on? _ second. the way that event was carried on? to _ second. the way that event was carried on? to this _ second. the way that event was carried on? to this day, - second. the way that event was carried on? to this day, and i second. the way that event was carried on? to this day, and as| second. the way that event was| carried on? to this day, and as i said earlier _ carried on? to this day, and as i said earlier on, _ carried on? to this day, and as i said earlier on, i _ carried on? to this day, and as i

said earlier on, i struggle - carried on? to this day, and as i said earlier on, i struggle to i carried on? to this day, and as i said earlier on, i struggle to see howl said earlier on, i struggle to see how i could have run number ten, run hundreds of officials who needed to be thanked and appreciated for their work, in very trying circumstances, without having a brief farewell event of a kind that at least, and insofar as my participation was concerned, did not fall foul of the rules. let me remind you of that key point of that event, i was there for a maximum of 20 minutes or 25 minutes i gave a short speech. what i did was not found to... can i minutes i gave a short speech. what i did was not found to. . ._ i did was not found to... can i cut in, how i did was not found to... can i cut in. how long _ i did was not found to... can i cut in. how long you _ i did was not found to... can i cut in, how long you are _ i did was not found to... can i cut in, how long you are at _ i did was not found to... can i cut in, how long you are at the i in, how long you are at the gathering is not a question. while i am interjecting, evie's the question of imperfect social distancing. social distancing, hands, face, space, which is the space part is either two metres at this time or one metre with mitigations. tiara

one metre with mitigations. two metres where _ one metre with mitigations. twp metres where possible. one metre with mitigations. two metres where possible. or i one metre with mitigations. two metres where possible. or one i one metre with mitigations. two i metres where possible. or one metre with mitigations _ metres where possible. or one metre with mitigations which _ metres where possible. or one metre with mitigations which is _ metres where possible. or one metre with mitigations which is screen. i with mitigations which is screen. the objective of social distancing is to maintain it where ever possible. is to maintain it where ever possible-— is to maintain it where ever possible. is to maintain it where ever ossible. s .j j j, j, j, is to maintain it where ever ossible. .j j j, j, j, .j possible. what is the notion of a less than perfect, _ possible. what is the notion of a less than perfect, and _ possible. what is the notion of a less than perfect, and imperfecti less than perfect, and imperfect social distancing? you are telling the country to do social distancing. yes, but so did we in number ten. i am sure, by the way, that up and down the country, in spite of people's observance of social distancing, there were times when people drifted within one or two metres of each other. that is inevitable. we had a particular problem in number ten, because as i have said earlier on, we had to call meetings at great speed. we had

large numbers of staff that had to come into the building because we needed to get a variety of opinions, even though we had loads of people on them and, as you know, you have been to look at it, we had lots of people in corridors and spaces where it wasn't always easy to maintain perfect social distancing.- it wasn't always easy to maintain perfect social distancing. we're not talkinr perfect social distancing. we're not talking about _ perfect social distancing. we're not talking about higgledy-piggledy i talking about higgledy—piggledy corridors. if you could refer yourself to set bernard's next question is about an event. there were lots of _ question is about an event. there were lots of people _ question is about an event. there were lots of people needing i question is about an event. there were lots of people needing critical organisations around the country, and a _ organisations around the country, and a leaving do for everyone else around _ and a leaving do for everyone else around the — and a leaving do for everyone else around the country was not acceptable under the guidelines, or the rules. _ acceptable under the guidelines, or the rules, so why was it acceptable and necessary for work purposes in number— and necessary for work purposes in number ten? and necessary for work purposes in numberten? | and necessary for work purposes in number ten?— and necessary for work purposes in

number ten? j .j .j j j, j number ten? i understand that people lookin at number ten? i understand that people looking at that — number ten? i understand that people looking at that photograph _ number ten? i understand that people looking at that photograph will- looking at that photograph will think it looks like a social event. it was not a social event. if anybody thinks i was partying during lockdown, they are completely wrong. that was not a party. i lockdown, they are completely wrong. that was not a party.— that was not a party. i haven't said it was a party- _ that was not a party. i haven't said it was a party. well, _ that was not a party. i haven't said it was a party. well, you _ that was not a party. i haven't said it was a party. well, you did - it was a party. well, you did actually early _ it was a party. well, you did actually early on. _ it was a party. well, you did actually early on. what i i it was a party. well, you did | actually early on. what i was it was a party. well, you did i actually early on. what i was doing was thanking staff, or thanking one individual in particular, for their contribution and i believe that was my job. contribution and i believe that was myjob. 50 contribution and i believe that was m “ob. contribution and i believe that was m 'ob_ ,.j contribution and i believe that was m “ob. jj contribution and i believe that was m “ob. .j j jj my “ob. so if you had been asked at a my job. so if you had been asked at a ress my job. so if you had been asked at a press conference _ my job. so if you had been asked at a press conference with _ my job. so if you had been asked at a press conference with your- my job. so if you had been asked at| a press conference with your podium saying _ a press conference with your podium saying hands, face, space, whether it was— saying hands, face, space, whether it was ok _ saying hands, face, space, whether it was ok for organisations to have an socially— it was ok for organisations to have an socially distanced workplace gatherings, what would you have said? _ gatherings, what would you have said? i _ gatherings, what would you have said? j, gatherings, what would you have said? ., .j gatherings, what would you have said? j, .j .j j j said? i would have said it was up two organisations, _ said? i would have said it was up two organisations, as _ said? i would have said it was up two organisations, as the - said? i would have said it was up i two organisations, as the guidance says, how they are going to implement the guidance amongst which is social distancing, and where they cannot do social distancing perfectly, they cannot maintain two metres or one metres, then they are

entitled to have mitigations and thatis entitled to have mitigations and that is what the guidance says. we did indeed have plenty of mitigations, including, and as i have said to you before, this was exceptional in number ten, we had a great deal of testing. 50 exceptional in number ten, we had a great deal of testing.— great deal of testing. so the answer is ou great deal of testing. so the answer is you would — great deal of testing. so the answer is you would have _ great deal of testing. so the answer is you would have said _ great deal of testing. so the answer is you would have said it _ great deal of testing. so the answer is you would have said it was - great deal of testing. so the answer is you would have said it was ok? i is you would have said it was ok? no, is you would have said it was ok? no. i_ is you would have said it was ok? no. i said — is you would have said it was ok? no, i said the answer is we should do what the guidance says in the guidance says where you put in mitigations, where you do what is possible, then and where you follow social distancing anyway that reflects the realities of your workspace, that will be in compliance with the guidance. that was my view. i think that is what everybody else understood. can i repeat this point, this is what everybody understood, i believe, in number ten. everybody understood, i believe, in numberten. fora long period. of 20 months of the struggle against covid, during which we were having,

as the prime minister himself said, the experience of walking into loads of rooms and finding lots of people there, it was simply part of working in numberten, there, it was simply part of working in number ten, that we were going to come into contact with a great number of people, but people did follow social distancing and they were acutely conscious of it. i now turn to the — were acutely conscious of it. i now turn to the 27th _ were acutely conscious of it. i now turn to the 27th of— were acutely conscious of it. i now turn to the 27th of november, i were acutely conscious of it. i now i turn to the 27th of november, 2020, this was— turn to the 27th of november, 2020, this was another unplanned leaving gathering _ this was another unplanned leaving gathering for a special gathering that took place in the festival outside — that took place in the festival outside the press office in number ten. outside the press office in number ten we _ outside the press office in number ten. we have a three witness statements attesting to a lack of social _ statements attesting to a lack of social distancing of this event, this is— social distancing of this event, this is on— social distancing of this event, this is on page 17, we have got to jack doyle. — this is on page 17, we have got to jack doyle, your press secretary at the time _ jack doyle, your press secretary at the time and subsequently your director— the time and subsequently your director for communications saying there _ director for communications saying there were — director for communications saying there were certainly more than 20 people _ there were certainly more than 20 people in— there were certainly more than 20 people in attendance. do you accept that? _ people in attendance. do you accept

that? i _ people in attendance. do you accept that? j, �* ~ j, people in attendance. do you accept that? j, �* ~ jj �* .j people in attendance. do you accept that? ~ jj �* .j .j that? i don't know. i wasn't at that event and it _ that? i don't know. i wasn't at that event and it wasn't _ that? i don't know. i wasn't at that event and it wasn't an _ that? i don't know. i wasn't at that event and it wasn't an event i that? i don't know. i wasn't at that event and it wasn't an event that i event and it wasn't an event that was found to be in breach of the rules. , i, i, i, , , rules. there is no reason to dispute it? i happen — rules. there is no reason to dispute it? i happen to _ rules. there is no reason to dispute it? i happen to know _ rules. there is no reason to dispute it? i happen to know because - rules. there is no reason to dispute it? i happen to know because we i rules. there is no reason to dispute i it? i happen to know because we have all seen the — it? i happen to know because we have all seen the same _ it? i happen to know because we have all seen the same evidence _ it? i happen to know because we have all seen the same evidence bundle, i all seen the same evidence bundle, this is one of the things that we haven't been allowed to point to, there is evidence from at least one of the participants there weren't that many people and lasted a very short time. ba; that many people and lasted a very short time. �* , i, that many people and lasted a very short time-— that many people and lasted a very short time. j i, i, , i, ~ , short time. by all means, make sure that is drawn — short time. by all means, make sure that is drawn to _ short time. by all means, make sure that is drawn to our— short time. by all means, make sure that is drawn to our attention. - short time. by all means, make sure that is drawn to our attention. you . that is drawn to our attention. you mustn't _ that is drawn to our attention. you mustn't mention any names. that name we can mention- — mustn't mention any names. that name we can mention. that _ mustn't mention any names. that name we can mention. that event, _ mustn't mention any names. that name we can mention. that event, my - we can mention. that event, my memory of that event, i was there very briefly, no fines were issued for that event.—

very briefly, no fines were issued for that event. order, order, i am afraid we have _ for that event. order, order, i am afraid we have to _ for that event. order, order, i am afraid we have to suspend - for that event. order, order, i am afraid we have to suspend the - afraid we have to suspend the committee again because there is a division _ committee again because there is a division in _ committee again because there is a division in the commons. we will return_ division in the commons. we will return in— division in the commons. we will return in 15— division in the commons. we will return in 15 minutes. gk, division in the commons. we will return in 15 minutes. ok, another division bell _ return in 15 minutes. ok, another division bell rings _ return in 15 minutes. ok, another division bell rings calling - return in 15 minutes. ok, another division bell rings calling mps - return in 15 minutes. ok, another division bell rings calling mps to l division bell rings calling mps to vote. we were expecting a bit of a break in 15 minutes' time so they could all regroup and stretch their legs. i am joined could all regroup and stretch their legs. iam joined here could all regroup and stretch their legs. i am joined here in the studio by our political correspondent rob watson. also with us in the studio is dr alice lilly, who's a senior researcher at the institute for government, which is a nonpartisan think tank. and from westminster, we'rejoined byjames heale, who's the diary editor at the spectator magazine. like us, keenly watching the proceedings. rob, a lot of reference by borisjohnson about proceedings. rob, a lot of reference by boris johnson about the proceedings. rob, a lot of reference by borisjohnson about the nature of the working conditions in downing street, a london town house cramped and cold is how he described it in

the past. and cold is how he described it in the ast. , , i, i, and cold is how he described it in the ast. , i, i, , , the past. yes, if you had to sum up his defence. _ the past. yes, if you had to sum up his defence, but _ the past. yes, if you had to sum up his defence, but the _ the past. yes, if you had to sum up his defence, but the written - his defence, but the written evidence that he gave yesterday and what we are seeing now in or out terms, it is come on, we were trying to rescue this country from the covid epidemic, we are working and as anyone who has been in number 10 downing street will know, it is a narrow 18th—century building that has been adapted for use by government. we did our best to follow the guidelines, the social distancing guidelines, but my guinness, it is very tricky. that is at the of his heart defence, you could see why one of the mps questioning him, the conservative bernard jenkins said maybe if you said this right at the start in parliament, none of this would be happening. we wouldn't be sitting here, chris mason isjustjoining us, he wouldn't be there. perhaps if the then prime minister had taken

that approach. the then prime minister had taken that approach-— that approach. let's picture quest now. that approach. let's picture quest now- harriet _ that approach. let's picture quest now. harriet harman _ that approach. let's picture quest now. harriet harman focusing - that approach. let's picture quest now. harriet harman focusing on | that approach. let's picture quest. now. harriet harman focusing on the six gatherings that took place that took place on december 2020 one —— let's speak to chris now. boris johnson referring to the fact he had received a fixed penalty notice at one point. but still maintaining that as far as he was concerned, he always informed parliament to the best of his ability. irate always informed parliament to the best of his ability.— best of his ability. we are getting into the crux _ best of his ability. we are getting into the crux of _ best of his ability. we are getting into the crux of all _ best of his ability. we are getting into the crux of all of _ best of his ability. we are getting into the crux of all of this - best of his ability. we are getting into the crux of all of this now, i into the crux of all of this now, because — into the crux of all of this now, because what was really going to be interesting this afternoon and will continue — interesting this afternoon and will continue to be in the next couple of hours _ continue to be in the next couple of hours is _ continue to be in the next couple of hours is the — continue to be in the next couple of hours is the interrogation because as essential as those opening arguments were, they are the tram tracks— arguments were, they are the tram tracks of— arguments were, they are the tram tracks of the whole discussion and debate, _ tracks of the whole discussion and debate, effectively what we were hearing _ debate, effectively what we were hearing as both sides, the committee, the chair and boris johnson — committee, the chair and boris johnson himself, setting out arguments out loud that we have heard _ arguments out loud that we have heard them set out in paper in written — heard them set out in paper in written testimony to the reports atreadv — written testimony to the reports already. now what we are seeing both

of the _ already. now what we are seeing both of the images borisjohnson is being shown. _ of the images borisjohnson is being shown, where he has to look himself in the _ shown, where he has to look himself in the eve. _ shown, where he has to look himself in the eye, is— shown, where he has to look himself in the eye, is the interrogation. how— in the eye, is the interrogation. how does — in the eye, is the interrogation. how does his argument actually match up how does his argument actually match up to the _ how does his argument actually match up to the reality of what he was saying — up to the reality of what he was saying at — up to the reality of what he was saying at the time? we know his pushhack, — saying at the time? we know his pushback, as far as these gatherings were concerned, that he regarded them _ were concerned, that he regarded them as— were concerned, that he regarded them as necessary in terms of maintaining the morale of his team in the _ maintaining the morale of his team in the height of a pandemic, but clearly. — in the height of a pandemic, but clearly, as— in the height of a pandemic, but clearly, as is happening, and we saw it with _ clearly, as is happening, and we saw it with the _ clearly, as is happening, and we saw it with the testimony and questioning from sir bernard jenkin, thev're _ questioning from sir bernard jenkin, they're able to say look at the rules — they're able to say look at the rules were andy guidance, and to what _ rules were andy guidance, and to what extent they were in keeping. on a personal— what extent they were in keeping. on a personal level you could say there was only— a personal level you could say there was only that one occasion where he was only that one occasion where he was fined _ was only that one occasion where he was fined by— was only that one occasion where he was fined by the metropolitan police — was fined by the metropolitan police. and the others, you could say his— police. and the others, you could say his behaviour was not unlawful at the _ say his behaviour was not unlawful at the time — say his behaviour was not unlawful at the time he was at those parties, even _ at the time he was at those parties, even if_ at the time he was at those parties, even if people at that gathering were _ even if people at that gathering were fined after he went. i suspect we're _ were fined after he went. i suspect we're going — were fined after he went. i suspect we're going to get to a sense in the

coming _ we're going to get to a sense in the coming hours of something that has always— coming hours of something that has always been thrown in his direction around _ always been thrown in his direction around all— always been thrown in his direction around all of this, and we have seen part of— around all of this, and we have seen part of this — around all of this, and we have seen part of this and how he has assembled his defence, saying lots of other— assembled his defence, saying lots of other people in the building and think it _ of other people in the building and think it was obvious and neither did l, think it was obvious and neither did i. did _ think it was obvious and neither did i. did his _ think it was obvious and neither did i, did his leadership of the government, of that building and workplace, create a permissive culture — workplace, create a permissive culture where things went on and were _ culture where things went on and were unremarkable, that under different— were unremarkable, that under different leadership may have been rather— different leadership may have been rather different? that is the flip side to— rather different? that is the flip side to the argument he makes, that it cannot _ side to the argument he makes, that it cannot have been obvious to him or others— it cannot have been obvious to him or others that there was widespread rule breaking going on or otherwise it would _ rule breaking going on or otherwise it would have been raised by plenty of people _ it would have been raised by plenty of people in the building. lets it would have been raised by plenty of people in the building.— of people in the building. lets 'oin our of people in the building. lets 'oin political — of people in the building. lets 'oin our political correspondent i of people in the building. lets join our political correspondent who i of people in the building. lets join our political correspondent who is | our political correspondent who is in parliament's central lobby. in pa rliament�*s central lobby. children in parliament's central lobby. children visiting behind you, probably oblivious to what is

happening in that committee room, unless they are completely plugged in at primary school to what is happening in british politics. how busy has it been this afternoon? as everyone tucked away in their offices watching the proceedings? the younger generation has been on it when it comes to parliamentary goings on. mps have been scurrying out, having voted in that brexit vote, that interrupted the proceedings just a little while ago. we have been hearing from government ministers who have been out championing the fact that vote on the windsor framework, the other story going on here in parliament this afternoon, the first parliamentary test of rishi sunak�*s arrangements for post—brexit trading in northern ireland, his version of that, changes the arrangement that were not to the satisfaction of the eu or to demonstration in northern ireland. this was the first parliamentary test. in the event,

despite lots of talk of a big rebellion, he won that vote by quite long way. on the 22 conservative rebels in the end voted against that deal, borisjohnson, liz truss and former party leader iain duncan smith were among those who said they were going to oppose it. it was thought their opposition might have attracted other critics, but it seems that rebellion fizzled out. and it has not materialised that time. that was the other big parliamentary event going on that interrupted those proceedings but we have heard government ministers feeling pretty chipper about what has happened in the commons chamber. it must be said that one of the big implications of this deal that rishi sunak agreed with the eu was that hopefully power—sharing was going to get back under way and running in

northern ireland because it has been without a functioning government for more than a year. that hasn't happened yet as a result, we still have major concerns about this agreement and there will be some relief in government, socially judging by what we have heard from ministers passing through here this afternoon, this parliamentary moment came without a lot of drama. irate afternoon, this parliamentary moment came without a lot of drama.— came without a lot of drama. we have 'ust heard came without a lot of drama. we have just heard another _ came without a lot of drama. we have just heard another division _ came without a lot of drama. we have just heard another division bell - just heard another division bell going. even though this select committee hearing is under close scrutiny by us and plenty of other people around the country and the world watching borisjohnson answer these questions, parliamentary business continuing. it is these questions, parliamentary business continuing.— these questions, parliamentary business continuing. it is and it is worth remembering _ business continuing. it is and it is worth remembering the - business continuing. it is and it is i worth remembering the committee is still parliamentary business. you heard harriet harman, the chair, reminding borisjohnson that's what it was. he asked at the start of the committee for his statement to be postponed after the first break, he didn't want to start his opening statement before mps had to break

off for that boat. she said this is parliamentary business, it has to continue until we need to break for that division. it is a very parliamentary event, the committee thatis parliamentary event, the committee that is taking place, just in another parliamentary estate to where i am. very big implications there for borisjohnson and his future career, and i think, as we have been hearing, we have been hearing a lot of what the argument is getting down to, borisjohnson relying very heavily on the defence of social distancing being obeyed where possible and he has talked a lot about the other measures that were being obeyed in number ten, things like having a rigorous testing regime which he says was not actually the case in other workplaces, things like having sanitation is and other measures that mitigate the fact that social distancing was not being able to be observed all the time, he says. it

is extraordinary, you have got his former adviser dominic cummings who has been a character in this tale, borisjohnson has been a character in this tale, boris johnson referred has been a character in this tale, borisjohnson referred to him by name in his evidence saying the evidence he presented against boris johnson should be discredited because he is out to get him. meanwhile, you have got dominic cummings live blogging his responses to this committee on the site. it is an extraordinary piece of theatre we have been discussing all around borisjohnson, his own comments being played back to him. yes, in essence, it is still a parliamentary committee taking place as part of a normal parliamentary day. for committee taking place as part of a normal parliamentary day.- normal parliamentary day. for the moment, thank _ normal parliamentary day. for the moment, thank you. _ normal parliamentary day. for the moment, thank you. let's - normal parliamentary day. for the moment, thank you. let's stick i normal parliamentary day. for the moment, thank you. let's stick to | moment, thank you. let's stick to the diary editor at the spectator magazine. clearly borisjohnson's

feature could be affected by this, but how mindful will he be of what this might to his reputation and legacy? i this might to his reputation and lea ? ~ , i, legacy? i think very mindful and there is quite _ legacy? i think very mindful and there is quite a _ legacy? i think very mindful and there is quite a telling _ legacy? i think very mindful and there is quite a telling moment| legacy? i think very mindful and i there is quite a telling moment in there is quite a telling moment in the committee meeting just now, where he talked about this photograph which shows him surrounded by eight other people, raising drinks in the air. he was trying to explain what was in the photo for the benefit of the audience at home, he is notjust focusing on the seven mps in front of him, the committee grilling him, but the wider public and the party membership because he is conscious about how this is going to go down in terms of the party and his public standing. in one sense, it is quite a technical thing about parliament and the westminster bubble, there is and the westminster bubble, there is a whole country tuning in which is why parliament tv crashed earlier which shows the high level of public interest in these proceedings. irate interest in these proceedings. we can see them starting to come back in, i think, can see them starting to come back in, ithink, to can see them starting to come back in, i think, to the committee room now. we will go back there when they

start talking again in a minute. he is great box office and he knows it. yes, and i thought it was very telling that unlike yesterday's legalese, jargon filled statement, 52 pages, there was somejohnson touches, he was talking about the able to pick nature of number ten, about drill sergeants etc —— higgledy—piggledy nature of number ten. i think that is why people are tuning in, he likes the theatre and spectacle. what is telling is at the end of that hour or so grilling, you could see a certain touchiness creeping in because it has gone past the pre—rehearsed stances, and now it is about the questions of individual specific incidents. there

was a degree of touchiness creeping in. me was a degree of touchiness creeping in. ~ i, i i, was a degree of touchiness creeping in. we noticed that too watching in the studio- — in. we noticed that too watching in the studio- it _ in. we noticed that too watching in the studio. it is _ in. we noticed that too watching in the studio. it is no _ in. we noticed that too watching in the studio. it is no good _ in. we noticed that too watching in the studio. it is no good getting i the studio. it is no good getting tetchy with the select committee. they have got a job to do and we have got the power to call all sorts of evidence that they are going to pore over. of evidence that they are going to ore over. ~ , , i, y of evidence that they are going to ore over. ~ , , i, , i, ~ pore over. absolutely, and i think one of the — pore over. absolutely, and i think one of the things _ pore over. absolutely, and i think one of the things going _ pore over. absolutely, and i think one of the things going into i pore over. absolutely, and i think one of the things going into this l one of the things going into this inquiry and hearing specifically that people are interested to see, is how well boris johnson that people are interested to see, is how well borisjohnson would do under this kind of very detailed specific questioning, which is quite unlike what we usually see from select committees. he is being asked closed yes or no detailed specific questions. it is probably not very controversial to sayjohnson is not always seen as somebody who is invested in huge amounts of detail, we have seen previously in his remarks in parliament, sol we have seen previously in his remarks in parliament, so i think trying to see him deal with this

kind of line of questioning has been something that is very unusual and as james just something that is very unusual and as jamesjust mentioned, we something that is very unusual and as james just mentioned, we started to see some of that touchiness creeping in. it is quite a fine line for him to walk, if this is going to go on for a few hours yet, the committee will not take kindly to any greater touchiness or the smirking of their work and reputation, and it is something that may well not go down with people who are watching. may well not go down with people who are watching-— are watching. everyone is going to have to put _ are watching. everyone is going to have to put up _ are watching. everyone is going to have to put up with _ are watching. everyone is going to have to put up with that _ are watching. everyone is going to have to put up with that for - are watching. everyone is going to have to put up with that for some | have to put up with that for some extent _ have to put up with that for some extent i— have to put up with that for some extent. i am curious to know what you guys — extent. i am curious to know what you guys think, at the very heart of his defence. — you guys think, at the very heart of his defence, which is he is going to keep— his defence, which is he is going to keep repeating, as we are taking this social— keep repeating, as we are taking this social distancing think seriously. this social distancing think seriously-— this social distancing think seriously. social distancing guidelines _ seriously. social distancing guidelines of _ seriously. social distancing guidelines of two _ seriously. social distancing guidelines of two metres, l seriously. social distancing l guidelines of two metres, or seriously. social distancing i guidelines of two metres, or one metres with risk mitigation is, where ever possible. that

conditional where ever possible governance both two metres and one metre. irate governance both two metres and one metre. ~ i, , , i, metre. we will address that point in our report. — metre. we will address that point in our report. we _ metre. we will address that point in our report, we will— metre. we will address that point in our report, we will take _ our report, we will take consideration. but i do not think we agree _ consideration. but i do not think we agree with — consideration. but i do not think we agree with your interpretation of the guidance. this agree with your interpretation of the guidance-— the guidance. this is a very important _ the guidance. this is a very important point. _ the guidance. this is a very important point. whatever| the guidance. this is a very i important point. whatever your interpretation of the guidance may be, what matters, if i may respectfully say, is what i believed to have been our efforts to follow the guidance, where i thought they were credible and wholehearted. cani can i cut in and ask you to allow sir bernard _ can i cut in and ask you to allow sir bernard to— can i cut in and ask you to allow sir bernard to ask _ can i cut in and ask you to allow sir bernard to ask his _ can i cut in and ask you to allow sir bernard to ask his next - sir bernard to ask his next question _ sir bernard to ask his next question-— sir bernard to ask his next cuestion. ~ i, ,, i, , i, question. we were talking about the three witness _ question. we were talking about the three witness statements _ question. we were talking about the three witness statements of - question. we were talking about the three witness statements of the i three witness statements of the leaving — three witness statements of the leaving event which was another leading — leaving event which was another leading event for a special advisor on which — leading event for a special advisor on which there were certainly more than 20 _ on which there were certainly more than 20 people and i think you accepted — than 20 people and i think you accepted that. can

than 20 people and i think you accepted that.— than 20 people and i think you accepted that. than 20 people and i think you acceted that. i, ii, i ,, i, accepted that. can i come back on that? there _ accepted that. can i come back on that? there is _ accepted that. can i come back on that? there is conflicting - accepted that. can i come back on j that? there is conflicting evidence on that point. if you look at what sue gray had to say, she said 15—20. but we are not relying on sir�*s but we are not relying on sir's evidence, _ but we are not relying on sir's evidence, isn't that ironic? are you sa inc evidence, isn't that ironic? are you saying that — evidence, isn't that ironic? are you saying that evidence _ evidence, isn't that ironic? are you saying that evidence is _ evidence, isn't that ironic? are you saying that evidence is invalid? i i saying that evidence is invalid? i seeing any evidence collected by sue gray seeing any evidence collected by sue grav has _ seeing any evidence collected by sue grav has to— seeing any evidence collected by sue gray has to be independently verified — gray has to be independently verified by the evidence of truth. perhaps — verified by the evidence of truth. perhaps it— verified by the evidence of truth. perhaps it would be helpful if i gave my evidence. it perhaps it would be helpful ifi gave my evidence.— perhaps it would be helpful ifi gave my evidence. it would be very helful if gave my evidence. it would be very helpful if anything _ gave my evidence. it would be very helpful if anything in _ gave my evidence. it would be very helpful if anything in sue _ gave my evidence. it would be very helpful if anything in sue great's i helpful if anything in sue great's witness — helpful if anything in sue great's witness statements collected in the interview _ witness statements collected in the interview notes would be dealt with separately as the chairman described. i separately as the chairman described.— separately as the chairman described. ~' i, , described. i think it would be helful if described. i think it would be helpful if sir— described. i think it would be helpful if sir bernard - described. i think it would be helpful if sir bernard was i described. i think it would be | helpful if sir bernard was able described. i think it would be i helpful if sir bernard was able to ask his question and you give a succinct answer.— ask his question and you give a succinct answer. you will see also on -a~e succinct answer. you will see also on page 17 — succinct answer. you will see also on page 17 of _ succinct answer. you will see also on page 17 of your _ succinct answer. you will see also on page 17 of your bundle - succinct answer. you will see also on page 17 of your bundle that i on page 17 of your bundle that another—

on page 17 of your bundle that another witness statement stated they couldn't see through the room to leave _ they couldn't see through the room to leave because people were standing for— five people deep. is there _ standing for— five people deep. is there any— standing for— five people deep. is there any reason we should disbelieve that? i there any reason we should disbelieve that?— there any reason we should disbelieve that? i, , i, disbelieve that? i have seen all the testimony about _ disbelieve that? i have seen all the testimony about this _ disbelieve that? i have seen all the testimony about this event - disbelieve that? i have seen all the testimony about this event and i disbelieve that? i have seen all the testimony about this event and the j testimony about this event and the testimony about this event and the testimony from the sue gray evidence that i have mentioned and it seems quite incredible to me that we now can't adduce what she had to say after extensively interviewing people. she said there were 15—20 people. she said there were 15—20 people she thought at that event. it is also the case that the person leaving on that occasion, claire watson, i think we can name her, it is my understanding. she said it was a clutch of officials and that it lasted a very short time indeed. she said i think that there was a speech

by me that lasted 45 seconds and a speech by her that lasted 15 seconds, from memory. i was certainly there are very briefly and to get to your point, sir bernard, the quotation you have about that event does not actually accord with my own memory. event does not actually accord with my own memory-— event does not actually accord with my own memory. which quotation is this? of the — my own memory. which quotation is this? of the five _ my own memory. which quotation is this? of the five people _ my own memory. which quotation is this? of the five people deep - my own memory. which quotation is this? of the five people deep and i this? of the five people deep and more than 20 _ this? of the five people deep and more than 20 in _ this? of the five people deep and more than 20 in attendance. i this? of the five people deep and more than 20 in attendance. myl more than 20 in attendance. my memory of the event is much more in line with what claire watson had to say in what sue gray had to say. finally you will see on page 17 of the bundle that another witness said you joke _ the bundle that another witness said you joke to— the bundle that another witness said you joke to during the gathering that it _ you joke to during the gathering that it was, and i quote, probably the most — that it was, and i quote, probably the most un—socially distance gathering in the uk right now. in your— gathering in the uk right now. in your written submission you do see that you _ your written submission you do see that you don't remember saying that, those _ that you don't remember saying that, those particular words, but are you

therefore _ those particular words, but are you therefore denying that you said this? _ therefore denying that you said this? |— therefore denying that you said this? i, �* , i_ i, , this? i don't remember saying those words and i — this? i don't remember saying those words and i think— this? i don't remember saying those words and i think it _ this? i don't remember saying those words and i think it unlikely - this? i don't remember saying those words and i think it unlikely i - words and i think it unlikely i would have said those words given what i had to say to the committee right now about my memory of the event. my visual memory of the event is that it was much more as claire watson describes, it was a clutch of people around that table, that you have just been looking at, i don't remember people being five people deep". remember people being five people deep... i remember people being five people dee - . .. i, remember people being five people dee... i, , i,�* deep... i am sorry, you're giving very long — deep... i am sorry, you're giving very long answers _ deep... i am sorry, you're giving very long answers and _ deep... i am sorry, you're giving very long answers and repeating| very long answers and repeating yourself — very long answers and repeating yourself quite a lot, can we just -et yourself quite a lot, can we just get on — yourself quite a lot, can we just get on with the question is? thank you very— get on with the question is? thank you very much. so you are actually not denying — you very much. so you are actually not denying saying this but you're not denying saying this but you're not recalling it? ok, you answer the question _ not recalling it? ok, you answer the question. you also stating your witness — question. you also stating your witness submission that you might well have — witness submission that you might well have made observations and speeches— well have made observations and speeches about social distancing, so

what sort _ speeches about social distancing, so what sort of observations? might well have made _ what sort of observations? might well have made observations i what sort of observations? m grit well have made observations about the importance of social distancing since it was very much on our minds. but how right would it be to conclude that you can't be sure that you did _ conclude that you can't be sure that you did not — conclude that you can't be sure that you did not comment on the lack of social— you did not comment on the lack of social distancing at this or any of the other— social distancing at this or any of the other gatherings you attended because _ the other gatherings you attended because otherwise why would you have raised _ because otherwise why would you have raised it? _ because otherwise why would you have raised it? , i, �* , i, raised it? sorry, i don't understand the question- _ raised it? sorry, i don't understand the question. you _ raised it? sorry, i don't understand the question. you are _ raised it? sorry, i don't understand the question. you are not - raised it? sorry, i don't understand the question. you are not denying l the question. you are not denying ou miaht the question. you are not denying you might have — the question. you are not denying you might have said _ the question. you are not denying you might have said that, - the question. you are not denying you might have said that, what i l you might have said that, what i read _ you might have said that, what i read out — you might have said that, what i read out |— you might have said that, what i read out. ~ ~ , read out. i think it unlikely given the number _ read out. i think it unlikely given the number of _ read out. i think it unlikely given the number of people _ read out. i think it unlikely given the number of people that i i read out. i think it unlikely given i the number of people that i remember seeing. i think it unlikely. it would be quite fair to conclude that you did _ would be quite fair to conclude that you did comment on the lack of social— you did comment on the lack of social distancing at events. it is certainly likely _ social distancing at events. it is certainly likely i _ social distancing at events. it 3 certainly likely i would have drawn attention is to the importance of social distancing since that was very high on peoples minds. the importance _ very high on peoples minds. the importance of— very high on peoples minds. the

importance of social distancing if anyone _ importance of social distancing if anyone was being social distancing. as we _ anyone was being social distancing. as we have — anyone was being social distancing. as we have just extensively discussed, there might be occasions when people gathered together at high speed and where social distancing was imperfectly observed. that did not mean i thought the guidance was not being followed but given all i said earlier about observing social distancing where possible. observing social distancing where ossible. i, i,iii , i, possible. you do accept that the evidence we _ possible. you do accept that the evidence we have _ possible. you do accept that the evidence we have under - possible. you do accept that the i evidence we have under statement of truth that— evidence we have under statement of truth that indicate that those who were _ truth that indicate that those who were at _ truth that indicate that those who were at this gathering, very clearly indicate _ were at this gathering, very clearly indicate that there was insufficient social— indicate that there was insufficient social distancing at this gathering, do you _ social distancing at this gathering, do you accept that?— social distancing at this gathering, do you accept that? some of them do, some of them — do you accept that? some of them do, some of them don't. _ do you accept that? some of them do, some of them don't. having _ some of them don't. having established _ some of them don't. having established you _ some of them don't. having established you were i some of them don't. having l established you were familiar some of them don't. having i established you were familiar with the social— established you were familiar with the social distancing guidelines, you are — the social distancing guidelines, you are at — the social distancing guidelines, you are at the gatherings with a lack of— you are at the gatherings with a lack of social distancing, so it must — lack of social distancing, so it must have _ lack of social distancing, so it must have been obvious to you at the time and _ must have been obvious to you at the time and even more obvious on reflection — time and even more obvious on reflection afterwards as this whole thing _ reflection afterwards as this whole thing broke around you that it was

in breach— thing broke around you that it was in breach of— thing broke around you that it was in breach of workplace guidance relating — in breach of workplace guidance relating to social distancing. no. that is not _ relating to social distancing. no. that is not correct. _ relating to social distancing. firm that is not correct. what i relating to social distancing. fin. that is not correct. what i thought is that we had done our best to implement the guidance, completely implemented the guidance, but clearly when it came to things like social distancing, as the guidance explicitly provides for, it was not possible at all times to have perfect social distancing and that you could have mitigations. but as recently as — you could have mitigations. but as recently as the _ you could have mitigations. but as recently as the 25th _ you could have mitigations. but as recently as the 25th of _ you could have mitigations. but as recently as the 25th of may - you could have mitigations. but as recently as the 25th of may you i recently as the 25th of may you said. _ recently as the 25th of may you said. it — recently as the 25th of may you said, it was certainly the case that social— said, it was certainly the case that social distancing guidance was being respected _ social distancing guidance was being respected at all times. i think you are now— respected at all times. i think you are now saying it was imperfect. there _ are now saying it was imperfect. there is— are now saying it was imperfect. there is a — are now saying it was imperfect. there is a confusion between social distancing and the guidance. the guidance comprises social distancing amongst other things. what we were

trying to do was follow the guidance to the best of our ability. that meant that sometimes social distancing could not be perfectly observed. there were other mitigations we put in place. the ruidance mitigations we put in place. the guidance also — mitigations we put in place. the guidance also said that only necessary participants should physically attend workplace meetings, absolutely necessary participants. meetings, absolutely necessary participants-— participants. usually, it said usuall . participants. usually, it said usually. when _ participants. usually, it said usually. when you - participants. usually, it said usually. when you attended| participants. usually, it said i usually. when you attended these events, usually. when you attended these events. when _ usually. when you attended these events, when you _ usually. when you attended these events, when you didn't _ usually. when you attended these events, when you didn't even i usually. when you attended these | events, when you didn't even know who was _ events, when you didn't even know who was attending, however you so certain _ who was attending, however you so certain everybody there was absolutely necessary to attend these things? _ absolutely necessary to attend these thins? �* , , , things? burners, these events were of course not _ things? burners, these events were of course not organised _ things? burners, these events were of course not organised by - things? burners, these events were of course not organised by me i of course not organised by me personally, i relied upon my excellent officials to make sure we had the right people in the room. thank you. we will now move on to examine _ thank you. we will now move on to examine two — thank you. we will now move on to examine two gatherings _ thank you. we will now move on to examine two gatherings that - thank you. we will now move on to examine two gatherings that took i examine two gatherings that took place _ examine two gatherings that took place earlier— examine two gatherings that took place earlier in— examine two gatherings that took place earlier in the _ examine two gatherings that took place earlier in the twenty20 i examine two gatherings that took| place earlier in the twenty20 both of which _

place earlier in the twenty20 both of which you — place earlier in the twenty20 both of which you attended, _ place earlier in the twenty20 both of which you attended, mr- place earlier in the twenty20 both. of which you attended, mrjohnson. we will— of which you attended, mrjohnson. we will look— of which you attended, mrjohnson. we will look at _ of which you attended, mrjohnson. we will look at the _ of which you attended, mrjohnson. we will look at the gathering - of which you attended, mrjohnson. we will look at the gathering that i we will look at the gathering that took place — we will look at the gathering that took place in _ we will look at the gathering that took place in the _ we will look at the gathering that took place in the 19th _ we will look at the gathering that took place in the 19th of - we will look at the gathering that took place in the 19th ofjune i we will look at the gathering that i took place in the 19th ofjune 2020. this was— took place in the 19th ofjune 2020. this was a _ took place in the 19th ofjune 2020. this was a gathering _ took place in the 19th ofjune 2020. this was a gathering in _ took place in the 19th ofjune 2020. this was a gathering in the - took place in the 19th ofjune 2020. this was a gathering in the cabinetl this was a gathering in the cabinet room _ this was a gathering in the cabinet room to— this was a gathering in the cabinet room to mark— this was a gathering in the cabinet room to mark your _ this was a gathering in the cabinet room to mark your birthday. - this was a gathering in the cabinet room to mark your birthday. we i this was a gathering in the cabinet. room to mark your birthday. we will also look _ room to mark your birthday. we will also look at — room to mark your birthday. we will also look at the _ room to mark your birthday. we will also look at the gathering _ room to mark your birthday. we will also look at the gathering that - room to mark your birthday. we will also look at the gathering that took| also look at the gathering that took place _ also look at the gathering that took place on _ also look at the gathering that took place on the — also look at the gathering that took place on the 20th _ also look at the gathering that took place on the 20th of— also look at the gathering that took place on the 20th of may— also look at the gathering that took place on the 20th of may 2020 i also look at the gathering that took. place on the 20th of may 2020 which was a _ place on the 20th of may 2020 which was a gathering _ place on the 20th of may 2020 which was a gathering for _ place on the 20th of may 2020 which was a gathering for staff— place on the 20th of may 2020 which was a gathering for staff in _ place on the 20th of may 2020 which was a gathering for staff in the - was a gathering for staff in the number— was a gathering for staff in the number ten _ was a gathering for staff in the numberten garden. _ was a gathering for staff in the number ten garden. the - was a gathering for staff in the number ten garden. the legalj was a gathering for staff in the - number ten garden. the legal rules enforced _ number ten garden. the legal rules enforced to— number ten garden. the legal rules enforced to prevent _ number ten garden. the legal rules enforced to prevent the _ number ten garden. the legal rules enforced to prevent the spread i number ten garden. the legal rules enforced to prevent the spread of. enforced to prevent the spread of covid _ enforced to prevent the spread of covid varied — enforced to prevent the spread of covid varied between _ enforced to prevent the spread of covid varied between may - enforced to prevent the spread of covid varied between may and - enforced to prevent the spread of. covid varied between may and june 2020 _ covid varied between may and june 2020 but _ covid varied between may and june 2020 but at — covid varied between may and june 2020 but at both _ covid varied between may and june 2020 but at both times _ covid varied between may and june 2020 but at both times the - covid varied between may and junel 2020 but at both times the relevant rules included — 2020 but at both times the relevant rules included restrictions _ 2020 but at both times the relevant rules included restrictions on - rules included restrictions on gatherings— rules included restrictions on gatherings of— rules included restrictions on gatherings of two _ rules included restrictions on gatherings of two or - rules included restrictions on gatherings of two or more i rules included restrictions on - gatherings of two or more people. workplace — gatherings of two or more people. workplace guidance _ gatherings of two or more people. workplace guidance in _ gatherings of two or more people. workplace guidance in force - gatherings of two or more people. workplace guidance in force at - gatherings of two or more people. i workplace guidance in force at that time stated — workplace guidance in force at that time stated there _ workplace guidance in force at that time stated there should _ workplace guidance in force at that time stated there should be - workplace guidance in force at that time stated there should be sociali time stated there should be social distancing — time stated there should be social distancing of— time stated there should be social distancing of two _ time stated there should be social distancing of two metres - time stated there should be social distancing of two metres in - time stated there should be social distancing of two metres in the i distancing of two metres in the workplace _ distancing of two metres in the workplace wherever _ distancing of two metres in the workplace wherever possible. i distancing of two metres in the i workplace wherever possible. and that only — workplace wherever possible. and that only absolutely _ workplace wherever possible. and that only absolutely necessary - that only absolutely necessary participants _ that only absolutely necessary participants should _ that only absolutely necessary participants should physicallyi participants should physically attend — participants should physically attend meetings. _ participants should physically attend meetings. i— participants should physically attend meetings. iwill- participants should physically attend meetings. i will now. participants should physically- attend meetings. i will now invite to ask— attend meetings. i will now invite to ask questions _ attend meetings. i will now invite to ask questions about _ attend meetings. i will now invite to ask questions about these - to ask questions about these gatherings— to ask questions about these gatherings and _ to ask questions about these gatherings and i— to ask questions about these gatherings and i would - to ask questions about these gatherings and i would ask . to ask questions about these gatherings and i would ask ifi to ask questions about these - gatherings and i would ask if you could _ gatherings and i would ask if you could because _ gatherings and i would ask if you could because we _ gatherings and i would ask if you could because we have _ gatherings and i would ask if you could because we have already l could because we have already covered — could because we have already covered a _ could because we have already covered a lot _ could because we have already covered a lot of _ could because we have already covered a lot of ground - could because we have already covered a lot of ground if- could because we have already covered a lot of ground if you i could because we have already - covered a lot of ground if you could answer _ covered a lot of ground if you could answer as — covered a lot of ground if you could answer as succinctly _ covered a lot of ground if you could answer as succinctly as _ covered a lot of ground if you could answer as succinctly as possible. i covered a lot of ground if you could answer as succinctly as possible. [i answer as succinctly as possible. i may answer as succinctly as possible. may be repeating myself.

answer as succinctly as possible. i - may be repeating myself. mrjohnson, before i ask may be repeating myself. mrjohnson, before i ask my _ may be repeating myself. mrjohnson, before i ask my question _ may be repeating myself. mrjohnson, before i ask my question is _ may be repeating myself. mrjohnson, before i ask my question is can - may be repeating myself. mrjohnson, before i ask my question is can i - before i ask my question is can i again— before i ask my question is can i again confirm your knowledge of the rows of— again confirm your knowledge of the rows of guidance in place at the time _ rows of guidance in place at the time by— rows of guidance in place at the time by reminding ourselves of what you are _ time by reminding ourselves of what you are telling the country. you told the — you are telling the country. you told the house of commons on the 11th told the house of commons on the llth of— told the house of commons on the 11th of may and i quote, if you must io 11th of may and i quote, if you must go to— 11th of may and i quote, if you must go to work— 11th of may and i quote, if you must go to work and cannot work from home you should _ go to work and cannot work from home you should do so provided your workplace _ you should do so provided your workplace is covid secure and that you observe the rules on social distancing. we are publishing further— distancing. we are publishing further guidance on that. you also told the _ further guidance on that. you also told the house on the 11th of may that people should be limiting contact — that people should be limiting contact with others and keeping your distance _ contact with others and keeping your distance to _ contact with others and keeping your distance to two metres apart where possible _ distance to two metres apart where possible. that was just a week before — possible. that was just a week before the gathering of the 20th of may, and _ before the gathering of the 20th of may, and then on the 10th ofjune, 'ust may, and then on the 10th ofjune, just over— may, and then on the 10th ofjune, just over a — may, and then on the 10th ofjune, just over a week before the gathering on the 19th ofjune, you said at— gathering on the 19th ofjune, you said at a _ gathering on the 19th ofjune, you said at a press conference, i urge everyone — said at a press conference, i urge everyone to — said at a press conference, i urge everyone to continue to show restraint _ everyone to continue to show restraint and respect the rules which — restraint and respect the rules which are _ restraint and respect the rules which are designed to keep as all

safe, _ which are designed to keep as all safe, so— which are designed to keep as all safe, so please, to repeat what you have heard — safe, so please, to repeat what you have heard so many times before, stay alert. — have heard so many times before, stay alert, maintain social distancing and keep washing your hands _ distancing and keep washing your hands. you agree those were the rules— hands. you agree those were the rules enforced at the time. yes, thank you _ rules enforced at the time. yes, thank you. lets _ rules enforced at the time. yes, thank you. lets turn _ rules enforced at the time. yes, thank you. lets turn first - rules enforced at the time. yes, thank you. lets turn first to - rules enforced at the time. yes, thank you. lets turn first to the | thank you. lets turn first to the unatherin thank you. lets turn first to the gathering of — thank you. lets turn first to the gathering of the _ thank you. lets turn first to the gathering of the 19th _ thank you. lets turn first to the gathering of the 19th of - thank you. lets turn first to the gathering of the 19th ofjune i thank you. lets turn first to the i gathering of the 19th ofjune 2020 where _ gathering of the 19th ofjune 2020 where breaches of both the covid rules _ where breaches of both the covid rules and — where breaches of both the covid rules and the guidance are an issue. we will— rules and the guidance are an issue. we will show pictures of this gathering on the screen and they are pixelated _ gathering on the screen and they are pixelated -- — gathering on the screen and they are pixelated —— the young pixelated photos— pixelated —— the young pixelated photos are in bundle one of the total— photos are in bundle one of the total evidence. the pictures show that you — total evidence. the pictures show that you attended a gathering in the cabinet _ that you attended a gathering in the cabinet room on the state to mark your birthday with at least 17 other people _ your birthday with at least 17 other people in— your birthday with at least 17 other people in attendance. the attendees included _ people in attendance. the attendees included your wife and your interior designer. _ included your wife and your interior designer, didn't they? the}t designer, didn't they? they certainly included _ designer, didn't they? they certainly included my - designer, didn't they? they certainly included my wife l designer, didn't they? tie: certainly included my wife and designer, didn't they? tier certainly included my wife and son and yes there was a contractor working in the building who popped her head round the door very

briefly. her head round the door very briefl . ., . ., briefly. your wife and interior desi . ner briefly. your wife and interior designer were _ briefly. your wife and interior designer were present. - briefly. your wife and interior designer were present. you | briefly. your wife and interior - designer were present. you were issued _ designer were present. you were issued with a fixed penalty notice for this— issued with a fixed penalty notice for this event and you have just confirmed — for this event and you have just confirmed that at least two people attended _ confirmed that at least two people attended who were not work colleagues. why did you think this was reasonably necessary for work purposes _ was reasonably necessary for work purposes as required by the rules at the time? _ purposes as required by the rules at the time? this purposes as required by the rules at the time? . ., . purposes as required by the rules at the time? , . , ., purposes as required by the rules at the time? , ., , . ., the time? this was an event that took place _ the time? this was an event that took place as _ the time? this was an event that took place as you _ the time? this was an event that took place as you say _ the time? this was an event that took place as you say on - the time? this was an event that took place as you say on my - took place as you say on my birthday. i had come back from a long external visit. i thought it was reasonably necessary for work purposes because i was standing at my desk surrounded by officials who had been asked to come and wish me a happy birthday, i had only recently recovered from an illness, from covid, and it seemed to me a perfectly proper thing to do. we were about to have another meeting and they were largely the same officials. , . , , and they were largely the same officials. . ., , , , ., and they were largely the same officials. , . , , , ., . officials. presumably your wife and the contractor _

officials. presumably your wife and the contractor were _ officials. presumably your wife and the contractor were not _ officials. presumably your wife and the contractor were not attending l the contractor were not attending that meeting? it is the contractor were not attending that meeting?— that meeting? it is one of the peculiarities _ that meeting? it is one of the peculiarities of _ that meeting? it is one of the peculiarities of number - that meeting? it is one of the peculiarities of number ten l that meeting? it is one of the i peculiarities of number ten that that meeting? it is one of the - peculiarities of number ten that the prime minister and his family live in the same building, and my understanding of the rules is that the prime minister's family is entitled to use that building and every part of that building. turning now to the guidance, _ every part of that building. turning now to the guidance, the - every part of that building. turning now to the guidance, the covid - now to the guidance, the covid workplace _ now to the guidance, the covid workplace guidance then in place at the workplace meetings should be socially _ the workplace meetings should be socially distanced and only attended by those _ socially distanced and only attended by those whose participation was absolutely necessary. the two pictures — absolutely necessary. the two pictures we see on the screen show the gathering was not socially distanced and that was attended by people _ distanced and that was attended by people who were not absolutely necessary to be there, so would it not have _ necessary to be there, so would it not have been obvious to you that the event — not have been obvious to you that the event was in breach of the guidance? it the event was in breach of the guidance?— the event was in breach of the auidance? , ., ., ., ., the event was in breach of the auidance? , ., ., ., . guidance? it is a measure of how an obvious this — guidance? it is a measure of how an obvious this was _ guidance? it is a measure of how an obvious this was to _ guidance? it is a measure of how an obvious this was to me _ guidance? it is a measure of how an obvious this was to me that - guidance? it is a measure of how an obvious this was to me that this - guidance? it is a measure of how an j obvious this was to me that this was any kind of breach at all. the press

office actually publicised this meeting in the times newspaper, briefed it out, as i said earlier on with a slightly embellished account. i had had absolutely no sense, while this event was taking place, and indeed later on at any time, that this event was in contravention of either the rules are the guidance. nor did anybody, before i spoke in the house of commons, suggests to me that it was. and i think that the then chancellor, who also received this would have beenjust then chancellor, who also received this would have been just as surprised as i was. this would have been 'ust as surprised as i was._ this would have been 'ust as surprised as i was. you didn't reflect on _ surprised as i was. you didn't reflect on the _ surprised as i was. you didn't reflect on the event - surprised as i was. you didn't. reflect on the event afterwards surprised as i was. you didn't - reflect on the event afterwards as to whether it was in the rows are guidance — to whether it was in the rows are guidance before you spoken house of commons? _ guidance before you spoken house of commons? | guidance before you spoken house of commons? �* ., ., guidance before you spoken house of commons? �* ., . , commons? i didn't and that is because it _ commons? i didn't and that is because it was _ commons? i didn't and that is because it was a _ commons? i didn't and that is because it was a long - commons? i didn't and that is because it was a long time - commons? i didn't and that is i because it was a long time ago, i am afraid it had entirely slipped my mind and i thought it was a completely innocent event. it was a very brief event, i am standing at

the place i would have normally sat, it did not strike me has been anything other than an ordinary common or garden workplace event. so can we now turn to the 20th of may 2020 _ can we now turn to the 20th of may 2020 and _ can we now turn to the 20th of may 2020 and that was the gathering in the numberten garden 2020 and that was the gathering in the number ten garden for staff with evidence _ the number ten garden for staff with evidence that you were present at this gathering, while you were there. — this gathering, while you were there, there were up to 40 people also there. — there, there were up to 40 people also there, and at this time a gathering _ also there, and at this time a gathering had to be essential for work— gathering had to be essential for work purposes to be within the regulations. we have got evidence that the _ regulations. we have got evidence that the e—mail invitation for this gathering, — that the e—mail invitation for this gathering, which was sent by your principal— gathering, which was sent by your principal private secretary, martin reynolds. — principal private secretary, martin reynolds, was sent to 200 odd people and that— reynolds, was sent to 200 odd people and that it _ reynolds, was sent to 200 odd people and that it encouraged staff who attended to bring their own alcohol. that is— attended to bring their own alcohol. that is on— attended to bring their own alcohol. that is on page 35 of the bundle. did you _ that is on page 35 of the bundle. did you see the invitation e—mail at any time _ did you see the invitation e—mail at any time before it was made public? no. ., �* , . ,

no. you didn't see the e-mail itself but were you _ no. you didn't see the e-mail itself but were you aware _ no. you didn't see the e-mail itself but were you aware the _ no. you didn't see the e-mail itself but were you aware the e-mail- no. you didn't see the e-mail itself but were you aware the e-mail had| but were you aware the e—mail had been _ but were you aware the e—mail had been sent— but were you aware the e—mail had been sent to 200 odd people. no. what was your _ been sent to 200 odd people. tic. what was your understanding of the purpose _ what was your understanding of the purpose of — what was your understanding of the purpose of the gathering? to what was your understanding of the purpose of the gathering?— purpose of the gathering? to thank staff who had _ purpose of the gathering? to thank staff who had been _ purpose of the gathering? to thank staff who had been working - purpose of the gathering? to thank staff who had been working very i purpose of the gathering? to thank. staff who had been working very hard on covid and it seems to me, i think i was told about it only shortly before i was ushered out into it, the purpose of it was to thank them in obviously a ventilated area, the garden. did in obviously a ventilated area, the carden. , , ., in obviously a ventilated area, the carden. , ,. ,, in obviously a ventilated area, the carden., ,. ,, , garden. did you discuss the purpose ofthe garden. did you discuss the purpose of the gathering _ garden. did you discuss the purpose of the gathering with _ garden. did you discuss the purpose of the gathering with any _ garden. did you discuss the purpose of the gathering with any officials i of the gathering with any officials before _ of the gathering with any officials before it — of the gathering with any officials before it took place? air i think i would _ before it took place? air i think i would have — before it took place? air i think i would have been told, i don't remember it, the covid team is gathering — remember it, the covid team is gathering outside, it has been a very tough time, this was a day when the cabinet _ very tough time, this was a day when the cabinet secretary had just stepped down. i think the civil servants— stepped down. i think the civil servants needed to feel, as i said in respect — servants needed to feel, as i said in respect of another event, that the business of government was being

carried _ the business of government was being carried on— the business of government was being carried on and they needed to feel thanked _ carried on and they needed to feel thanked and motivated for their work and that— thanked and motivated for their work and that is— thanked and motivated for their work and that is what i did. you thanked and motivated for their work and that is what i did.— and that is what i did. you are aware of _ and that is what i did. you are aware of the _ and that is what i did. you are aware of the gathering - and that is what i did. you are aware of the gathering before| and that is what i did. you are i aware of the gathering before it took place?— aware of the gathering before it took lace? �* , , , , took place? briefly, yes, but it was one of those _ took place? briefly, yes, but it was one of those things _ took place? briefly, yes, but it was one of those things where, - took place? briefly, yes, but it was one of those things where, as - took place? briefly, yes, but it was one of those things where, as i i one of those things where, as i think— one of those things where, as i think sudeley may point out in her report, _ think sudeley may point out in her report, i_ think sudeley may point out in her report, i don't know what value you know _ report, i don't know what value you know attached to it, but report, i don't know what value you know attached to it,— know attached to it, but when you are prime minister— know attached to it, but when you are prime minister you _ know attached to it, but when you are prime minister you move - know attached to it, but when you i are prime minister you move around and your officials give you the next thing to do and you go and do it and this was the next thing to do. i then went and had a telephone audience with her majesty. ltruiith audience with her ma'esty. with evidence that i audience with her ma'esty. with evidence that some i audience with her majesty. with evidence that some officials and advisers — evidence that some officials and advisers felt the event should not io advisers felt the event should not go ahead, — advisers felt the event should not go ahead, on page 34 of the bundle, the director— go ahead, on page 34 of the bundle, the director of communications describes— the director of communications describes the tone of the e—mail invitation— describes the tone of the e—mail invitation is clearly in breach of covid _ invitation is clearly in breach of covid guidance and said he raised concerns— covid guidance and said he raised concerns about it with martin reynolds. another official gave us evidence — reynolds. another official gave us evidence saying, and i quote, i heard — evidence saying, and i quote, i heard there were so many people

unhappy— heard there were so many people unhappy about the party that they were not— unhappy about the party that they were not going to go, and they themselves are said to another official— themselves are said to another official that they thought it was madness. that event is on page 38 of the bundle _ madness. that event is on page 38 of the bundle. were any concerns about the bundle. were any concerns about the gathering is compliance raised with you _ the gathering is compliance raised with you at the time? the individual who raised concerns, _ with you at the time? the individual who raised concerns, lee, - with you at the time? the individual who raised concerns, lee, if- with you at the time? the individual who raised concerns, lee, if you i who raised concerns, lee, if you read what he says, he was concerned about the optics, not about the rules. he himself attended the event and certainly no concerns were raised with me. if and certainly no concerns were raised with me.— and certainly no concerns were raised with me. if the event was within the _ raised with me. if the event was within the rules _ raised with me. if the event was within the rules why _ raised with me. if the event was within the rules why would - raised with me. if the event was within the rules why would he i raised with me. if the event was| within the rules why would he be concerned — within the rules why would he be concerned about the optics? | within the rules why would he be concerned about the optics? i can't sa . i concerned about the optics? i can't say- i think — concerned about the optics? i can't say- i think he _ concerned about the optics? i can't say. i think he was _ concerned about the optics? i can't say. i think he was concerned - concerned about the optics? i can't| say. i think he was concerned about the impression people might gain if they looked over the garden wall, if they looked over the garden wall, if they were coming from the media room and thought we were doing something that other people were not allowed to do. in my opening remarks i made clear that i can see why people might have felt that way, but as i

told the house, when i came to report on that event, i still believed it was within the guidance and within the rules. did believed it was within the guidance and within the rules.— and within the rules. did he raise concerns or _ and within the rules. did he raise concerns or discuss _ and within the rules. did he raise concerns or discuss the - and within the rules. did he raise| concerns or discuss the gathering with you — concerns or discuss the gathering with you at — concerns or discuss the gathering with you at the time, his evidence suggests— with you at the time, his evidence suggests he might have done. he said, _ suggests he might have done. he said. i_ suggests he might have done. he said, i don't recall if i personally had a _ said, i don't recall if i personally had a conversation with the prime minister— had a conversation with the prime minister about the garden party but it would _ minister about the garden party but it would have been highly unusual for me _ it would have been highly unusual for me not— it would have been highly unusual for me not to have raised a potentially serious risk. if for me not to have raised a potentially serious risk. if he had thou~ht potentially serious risk. if he had thought and _ potentially serious risk. if he had thought and if— potentially serious risk. if he had thought and if dominic _ potentially serious risk. if he had | thought and if dominic cummings potentially serious risk. if he had i thought and if dominic cummings had thought and if dominic cummings had thought that this thing really was against the rules and should not go ahead, they would have told martin reynolds and it is inconceivable that it would have gone ahead. did martin reynolds discuss raise any concerns — martin reynolds discuss raise any concerns about the gathering with you at _ concerns about the gathering with you at the — concerns about the gathering with you at the time? again his evidence suggests— you at the time? again his evidence suggests he may well have done. he says it _ suggests he may well have done. he says it is _ suggests he may well have done. he says it is possible he raise concerns _ says it is possible he raise concerns with you.- says it is possible he raise concerns with you. not that i can remember. _ concerns with you. not that i can remember, no. _ concerns with you. not that i can remember, no. where _ concerns with you. not that i can remember, no. where you - concerns with you. not that i can i remember, no. where you otherwise aware of any — remember, no. where you otherwise aware of any concerns _ remember, no. where you otherwise aware of any concerns from - remember, no. where you otherwise aware of any concerns from what i remember, no. where you otherwise

aware of any concerns from what you have heard _ aware of any concerns from what you have heard or read either before or after _ have heard or read either before or after the _ have heard or read either before or after the government advice? no. as i have told after the government advice? no. as i have told the _ after the government advice? no. as i have told the house _ after the government advice? no. as i have told the house of— after the government advice? no. as i have told the house of commons i after the government advice? no. as | i have told the house of commons and i have told the house of commons and i gave quite a long series of remarks about this event, when i walked out into the garden it was implicit centred on what we were doing that this was a work event. this doing that this was a work event. as you will see from the bundle we have evidence _ you will see from the bundle we have evidence that trestle tables were set up _ evidence that trestle tables were set up on — evidence that trestle tables were set up on which alcohol was laid out in the _ set up on which alcohol was laid out in the attendees included your wife as well— in the attendees included your wife as well as — in the attendees included your wife as well as advisers who were not from _ as well as advisers who were not from numberten as well as advisers who were not from number ten but from other government departments. did you see that when— government departments. did you see that when you were at the gathering? i had that when you were at the gathering? i had no _ that when you were at the gathering? i had no hand in organising this when you talk about trestle tables and so on. there is no prohibition... and so on. there is no prohibition. . .- and so on. there is no prohibition... and so on. there is no rohibition... ,, ., . prohibition... she was not asking whether he _ prohibition... she was not asking whether he organised _ prohibition... she was not asking whether he organised the - prohibition... she was not asking whether he organised the trestle | whether he organised the trestle tables— whether he organised the trestle tables with — whether he organised the trestle tables with the _ whether he organised the trestle tables with the alcohol— whether he organised the trestle tables with the alcohol on - whether he organised the trestle tables with the alcohol on it. i whether he organised the trestle| tables with the alcohol on it. she was asking — tables with the alcohol on it. she was asking whether— tables with the alcohol on it. she was asking whether you - tables with the alcohol on it. she was asking whether you saw i tables with the alcohol on it. she was asking whether you saw that| was asking whether you saw that trestle _ was asking whether you saw that trestle tables _ was asking whether you saw that trestle tables with _ was asking whether you saw that trestle tables with alcohol? i was asking whether you saw that trestle tables with alcohol? [- was asking whether you saw that trestle tables with alcohol? i don't remember exactly _

trestle tables with alcohol? i don't remember exactly what _ trestle tables with alcohol? i don't remember exactly what was - trestle tables with alcohol? i don't remember exactly what was on - trestle tables with alcohol? i don't| remember exactly what was on the trestle tables. i remember going around and thanking staff for what they were doing during covid. it is perfectly possible that my wife was in the garden as well, but she was entitled to be there. she certainly didn't receive a fixed penalty notice at that event and nor did i. you will also see from page 3a of you will also see from page 34 of the bundle — you will also see from page 34 of the bundle lee kane said he attended the bundle lee kane said he attended the gathering and it was clear it was a _ the gathering and it was clear it was a purely social function. did you share — was a purely social function. did you share that view? no was a purely social function. did you share that view?— was a purely social function. did you share that view? no and it was certainly not _ you share that view? no and it was certainly not what _ you share that view? no and it was certainly not what he _ you share that view? no and it was certainly not what he said - you share that view? no and it was certainly not what he said at - you share that view? no and it was certainly not what he said at the i certainly not what he said at the time because if he thought it was purely social and therefore against the rules it was inconceivable it would have gone ahead. metropolitan police have confirmed _ would have gone ahead. metropolitan police have confirmed fixed _ would have gone ahead. metropolitan police have confirmed fixed penalty . police have confirmed fixed penalty notices— police have confirmed fixed penalty notices were issued in relation to that gathering so we know it breach the covered regulations. we know you knew what _ the covered regulations. we know you knew what the regulations were and we know _ knew what the regulations were and we know you were in attendance so it would _ we know you were in attendance so it would have _ we know you were in attendance so it would have been obvious to you when you were _ would have been obvious to you when you were there that the gathering

was not _ you were there that the gathering was not essential for work purposes and was _ was not essential for work purposes and was partly a social event, wouldn't _ and was partly a social event, wouldn't it?— and was partly a social event, wouldn't it? no, and with great resect, wouldn't it? no, and with great resoeet. l— wouldn't it? no, and with great resoeet. i want _ wouldn't it? no, and with great respect, i want to _ wouldn't it? no, and with great respect, i want to dispute - wouldn't it? no, and with great respect, i want to dispute the l wouldn't it? no, and with great. respect, i want to dispute the idea that it was not an essential gathering, not a gathering that was reasonably necessary for work purposes. i don't know why the fixed penalty notices were issued but it may be the were issued to people who had not a good enough reason to come in from home to that gathering or people who had come from elsewhere to that gathering. my firm impression, and it is certainly still the case that martin reynolds believes the gathering was within the rules and within the guidance. would you have advised anyone else in that _ would you have advised anyone else in that country if they had asked that the — in that country if they had asked that the press conferences at that time to— that the press conferences at that time to have a large social gathering in the garden? it time to have a large social gathering in the garden? it was not a lane gathering in the garden? it was not a large social— gathering in the garden? it was not a large social gathering, _ gathering in the garden? it was not a large social gathering, it - gathering in the garden? it was not a large social gathering, it was - gathering in the garden? it was not a large social gathering, it was a i a large social gathering, it was a gathering intended, and i really

must insist on this point, people who say that we were partying in lockdown simply do not know what they are talking about. the people who say that that event was a purely social gathering are quite wrong. my purpose was to thank staff, to motivate them, and what had been a very difficult time and what was also a very difficult day on which the cabinet secretary had just resigned. did the cabinet secretary had 'ust resiuned. , ,, ~' the cabinet secretary had 'ust resiuned. , ~ ., resigned. did you think that exceptions _ resigned. did you think that exceptions applied - resigned. did you think that exceptions applied in - resigned. did you think that l exceptions applied in number resigned. did you think that - exceptions applied in number ten to workplace _ exceptions applied in number ten to workplace rules and social distancing guidelines that didn't apply— distancing guidelines that didn't apply to — distancing guidelines that didn't apply to hospitals and care homes, workplaces also operating under an incredihly— workplaces also operating under an incredibly difficult set of challenging circumstances? gf incredibly difficult set of challenarin circumstances? u, , challenging circumstances? of course not and that — challenging circumstances? of course not and that is _ challenging circumstances? of course not and that is why _ challenging circumstances? of course not and that is why we _ challenging circumstances? of course not and that is why we continued, - not and that is why we continued, why we had all the stipulations that i have discussed at great length with sir bernard about following the guidance. with sir bernard about following the ruidance. ., ~ with sir bernard about following the ruidance. ., ,, , ., with sir bernard about following the ruidance. ., ,, ,, ~ with sir bernard about following the ruidance. ., ,, ~ g .,

guidance. thank you, mrjohnson, i will hand back _ guidance. thank you, mrjohnson, i will hand back to _ guidance. thank you, mrjohnson, i will hand back to the _ guidance. thank you, mrjohnson, i will hand back to the chair. - guidance. thank you, mrjohnson, i will hand back to the chair. to - will hand back to the chair. complete will hand back to the chair. to complete this section we will look at two _ complete this section we will look at two gatherings _ complete this section we will look at two gatherings that _ complete this section we will look at two gatherings that took - complete this section we will look at two gatherings that took place i complete this section we will look i at two gatherings that took place at the end _ at two gatherings that took place at the end of— at two gatherings that took place at the end of 2020 _ at two gatherings that took place at the end of 2020 and the _ at two gatherings that took place at the end of 2020 and the start - at two gatherings that took place at the end of 2020 and the start of - the end of 2020 and the start of 202i _ the end of 2020 and the start of 202i the — the end of 2020 and the start of 2021. the first _ the end of 2020 and the start of 2021. the first took _ the end of 2020 and the start of 2021. the first took place - the end of 2020 and the start of 2021. the first took place on - the end of 2020 and the start of 2021. the first took place on the 14th of _ 2021. the first took place on the 14th ofjanuary_ 2021. the first took place on the 14th of january 2021, _ 2021. the first took place on the 14th ofjanuary 2021, a - 2021. the first took place on the 14th ofjanuary 2021, a leaving l 14th ofjanuary 2021, a leaving gathering _ 14th ofjanuary 2021, a leaving gathering for _ 14th ofjanuary 2021, a leaving gathering for two _ 14th ofjanuary 2021, a leaving gathering for two officials - 14th ofjanuary 2021, a leavingj gathering for two officials held 14th ofjanuary 2021, a leaving. gathering for two officials held in number— gathering for two officials held in number ten _ gathering for two officials held in numberten. the— gathering for two officials held in numberten. the next— gathering for two officials held in number ten. the next one - gathering for two officials held in number ten. the next one we i gathering for two officials held in. number ten. the next one we will look at _ number ten. the next one we will look at is — number ten. the next one we will look at is the _ number ten. the next one we will look at is the christmas _ number ten. the next one we will look at is the christmas gathering | look at is the christmas gathering in the _ look at is the christmas gathering in the vestibule _ look at is the christmas gathering in the vestibule on _ look at is the christmas gathering in the vestibule on the _ look at is the christmas gathering in the vestibule on the 18th - look at is the christmas gathering in the vestibule on the 18th of- in the vestibule on the 18th of decemher— in the vestibule on the 18th of december 2020. _ in the vestibule on the 18th of december 2020. at— in the vestibule on the 18th of december 2020. at the - in the vestibule on the 18th of december 2020. at the timel in the vestibule on the 18th of. december 2020. at the time of in the vestibule on the 18th of- december 2020. at the time of both gatherings— december 2020. at the time of both gatherings the — december 2020. at the time of both gatherings the legal— december 2020. at the time of both gatherings the legal rules _ december 2020. at the time of both gatherings the legal rules in - december 2020. at the time of both gatherings the legal rules in force i gatherings the legal rules in force prevented — gatherings the legal rules in force prevented the _ gatherings the legal rules in force prevented the spread _ gatherings the legal rules in force prevented the spread of- gatherings the legal rules in force prevented the spread of covid i prevented the spread of covid including _ prevented the spread of covid including the _ prevented the spread of covid including the gathering - prevented the spread of covid including the gathering of- prevented the spread of covid i including the gathering of more prevented the spread of covid - including the gathering of more than two people _ including the gathering of more than two people and _ including the gathering of more than two people and workplace _ including the gathering of more than two people and workplace guidancel two people and workplace guidance suggesting — two people and workplace guidance suggesting there _ two people and workplace guidance suggesting there should _ two people and workplace guidance suggesting there should be - two people and workplace guidance suggesting there should be social. suggesting there should be social distancing — suggesting there should be social distancing of— suggesting there should be social distancing of two _ suggesting there should be social distancing of two metres - suggesting there should be sociall distancing of two metres wherever possible _ distancing of two metres wherever possible and — distancing of two metres wherever possible and that _ distancing of two metres wherever possible and that only— distancing of two metres wherever possible and that only absolutely. possible and that only absolutely necessary — possible and that only absolutely necessary participant _ possible and that only absolutely necessary participant should i necessary participant should physically _ necessary participant should physically attend _ necessary participant should physically attend meetings. | necessary participant should i physically attend meetings. good afternoon, physically attend meetings. good afternoon. mr— physically attend meetings. good afternoon, mrjohnson. _ physically attend meetings. afternoon, mrjohnson. before i asked— afternoon, mrjohnson. before i asked nry— afternoon, mrjohnson. before i asked my question is, can we again confirm _ asked my question is, can we again confirm your— asked my question is, can we again confirm your knowledge of the rules and the _ confirm your knowledge of the rules

and the guidance in place at that time _ and the guidance in place at that time by— and the guidance in place at that time by reminding ourselves of what you are _ time by reminding ourselves of what you are telling the country. you told the — you are telling the country. you told the house of commons on the 2nd of september that it was very important that we get people back into the _ important that we get people back into the workplace in a covid secure way _ into the workplace in a covid secure way this _ into the workplace in a covid secure way. this shows you were aware of the workplace guidance and its contents _ the workplace guidance and its contents. then on the 9th of november you said that a covid press conference. _ november you said that a covid press conference, that mass testing and vaccines— conference, that mass testing and vaccines are at no time substitute for social— vaccines are at no time substitute for social distancing and all the rest so — for social distancing and all the rest so it — for social distancing and all the rest so it is all the more important we follow— rest so it is all the more important we follow the rules. in addition that the — we follow the rules. in addition that the press conference on the 30th— that the press conference on the 30th of— that the press conference on the 30th of december you outlined eight tier 4 _ 30th of december you outlined eight tier 4 restriction which would be enforced — tier 4 restriction which would be enforced in _ tier 4 restriction which would be enforced in london and a fortnight later on— enforced in london and a fortnight later on the 14th ofjanuary, you said the — later on the 14th ofjanuary, you said the reception meant not meeting up said the reception meant not meeting up with— said the reception meant not meeting up with friends or family indoors unless— up with friends or family indoors unless they are in the same household or support bubble and

avoiding — household or support bubble and avoiding gatherings of any kind. my first question to you, is that your understanding of the rose? yes, thank you _ understanding of the rose? yes, thank you- my — understanding of the rose? yes, thank you. my first _ understanding of the rose? yes, thank you. my first question i understanding of the rose? yes, thank you. my first question willj thank you. my first question will focus on the _ thank you. my first question will focus on the gathering - thank you. my first question will focus on the gathering of - thank you. my first question will focus on the gathering of the i thank you. my first question will. focus on the gathering of the 14th ofjanuary— focus on the gathering of the 14th of january 2021. focus on the gathering of the 14th ofjanuary 2021. this was a leading event _ ofjanuary 2021. this was a leading event for— ofjanuary 2021. this was a leading event for two officials held in the pillared — event for two officials held in the pillared room at number ten. we have evidence _ pillared room at number ten. we have evidence that approximately 15 people — evidence that approximately 15 people attended, we will now show you a _ people attended, we will now show you a picture of this gathering on the screen — you a picture of this gathering on the screen. the un—pixelated photo is on _ the screen. the un—pixelated photo is on page — the screen. the un—pixelated photo is on page 757 of bundle two of the total evidence. here we see the picture — total evidence. here we see the picture on — total evidence. here we see the picture on the screen. the photograph shows yourself and at least it _ photograph shows yourself and at least 11 other people in attendance on the _ least 11 other people in attendance on the un—pixelated picture. the metropolitan police have confirmed fixed penalty notices were issued to some _ fixed penalty notices were issued to some individuals who attended this gathering _ some individuals who attended this gathering as it breach the covid regulations in place at the time and

was not _ regulations in place at the time and was not reasonably necessary for work _ was not reasonably necessary for work this — was not reasonably necessary for work. this breach of the covid grows with a _ work. this breach of the covid grows with a been— work. this breach of the covid grows with a been obvious to you when you were there. — with a been obvious to you when you were there, wouldn't it? no. with a been obvious to you when you were there, wouldn't it?— were there, wouldn't it? no. i must respectfully — were there, wouldn't it? no. i must respectfully disagree _ were there, wouldn't it? no. i must respectfully disagree with _ were there, wouldn't it? no. i must respectfully disagree with you i were there, wouldn't it? no. i must respectfully disagree with you very l respectfully disagree with you very strongly. on the contrary, what i see there, and i know there are some bottles on the table, but you are looking actually at i think that is a zoom screenshot, because you have a zoom screenshot, because you have a large number of people at this event you are actually on zoom, you have people who work with each other every day, who use that room for meetings and who are meeting briefly to say thank you and farewell to i think two talented young officials, i think martin reid and alex burns was the occasion, forgive me, i shouldn't mention the names, i said

they are talented but anyway. those two officials were leaving and it was myjob to thank them and to show that their work was appreciated. i was there very briefly, i didn't receive a fixed penalty notice, there is nothing i can see and i have got to tell you this, there is nothing i can see in that photograph that strikes me as being either against the rules or the guidance. what i actually see, and depending on your perspective, what i actually see is people trying to stay reasonably far apart from each other. that is what i see. i don't know what happened later on but i can tell you that for the period i was there it seemed to me to be holy in accordance with the rules and the guidance and a proper use of my time evenif guidance and a proper use of my time even if only brief.—

even if only brief. would you agree with the description _ even if only brief. would you agree with the description of— even if only brief. would you agree with the description of the - with the description of the gathering received in evidence from an official— gathering received in evidence from an official who attended to describe the gathering is not strictly an event — the gathering is not strictly an event about work? the statement is on page _ event about work? the statement is on page 47 — event about work? the statement is on page 47 of the evidence bundle. | on page 47 of the evidence bundle. i don't on page 47 of the evidence bundle. don't agree on page 47 of the evidence bundle. i don't agree with that because i think it was essential to thank staff throughout the pandemic. there are not very many of these occasions. when they are current i thought it was right and proper for me to motivate staff by saying how we were doing and to thank them for what they had done. it was notjust the staff who were leaving who needed to be appreciated that was the staff there who needed to be motivated. the the staff there who needed to be motivated. , . the staff there who needed to be motivated-— the staff there who needed to be motivated. , . , ., , , motivated. the picture shows this rratherin , motivated. the picture shows this gathering. appears _ motivated. the picture shows this gathering, appears to _ motivated. the picture shows this gathering, appears to show i motivated. the picture shows this i gathering, appears to show multiple bottles _ gathering, appears to show multiple bottles of _ gathering, appears to show multiple bottles of alcohol in the bottom right—hand corner of the photograph. would _ right—hand corner of the photograph. would you _ right—hand corner of the photograph. would you say that that is strictly necessary — would you say that that is strictly necessary for a work event? it is

customary _ necessary for a work event? it is customary to _ necessary for a work event? it is customary to say _ necessary for a work event? it 3 customary to say farewell in this country with a toast. i didn't see any sign of drunkenness or excess and had no knowledge, i don't know why anybody would have been. i don't know what happened later on. the next gathering we want to ask you about _ next gathering we want to ask you about is _ next gathering we want to ask you about is the gathering on the 18th of december 2020, which we know was not compliant with covid regulations. some attendees received fixed penalty tickets, fixed penalty notices _ fixed penalty tickets, fixed penalty notices. this gathering was a preplanned press office drinks event with cheese and wine and was widely reported _ with cheese and wine and was widely reported in— with cheese and wine and was widely reported in the press. it was attended _ reported in the press. it was attended by between 25 and 40 people. — attended by between 25 and 40 people, you will find the relevant statements on page 54 of the evidence bundle. your official diary confirms _ evidence bundle. your official diary confirms you were in 10 downing confirms you were in10 downing street— confirms you were in 10 downing street that evening. they do at any time during this gathering? no. the 18th of december? _ time during this gathering? no. the 18th of december? 18th _ time during this gathering? no. the 18th of december? 18th of- time during this gathering? no. the| 18th of december? 18th of december 2020? absolutely

your official diary she was a gap between — your official diary she was a gap between the hours of 1917 and 2024, can you _ between the hours of 1917 and 2024, can you confirm where you were at that time? — can you confirm where you were at that time? l— can you confirm where you were at that time? ., can you confirm where you were at that time?— can you confirm where you were at that time? . ., , ., ~ that time? i imagine i was working, from memory. _ that time? i imagine i was working, from memory, there _ that time? i imagine i was working, from memory, there was _ that time? i imagine i was working, from memory, there was an - that time? i imagine i was working, | from memory, there was an evening when we were dealing notjust with the emergence of the kent variant, with delta, but with a great deal of anxiety about whether we were going to have a no—deal brexit. i thought that anxiety was unfounded of course, and we didn't, but it was a very long and difficult evening. i think we had an extended covid session but i did not attend that event and had no direct knowledge of it. irate event and had no direct knowledge of it. ~ _, . event and had no direct knowledge of it. . .., . ., event and had no direct knowledge of it. ~ _, . ., , event and had no direct knowledge of

it. we conducted a visit, as you can clearly see — it. we conducted a visit, as you can clearly see from _ it. we conducted a visit, as you can clearly see from this _ it. we conducted a visit, as you can clearly see from this press - clearly see from this press festival. _ clearly see from this press festival, where this gathering was taking _ festival, where this gathering was taking place, from the bottom of the stairs— taking place, from the bottom of the stairs leading up to what was your flat in— stairs leading up to what was your flat in 10 — stairs leading up to what was your flat in 10 downing street. your flat in10 downing street. your diary— flat in 10 downing street. your diary says _ flat in 10 downing street. your diary says he went to your flat at 2158~ _ diary says he went to your flat at 2158. apparently the gathering went on until— 2158. apparently the gathering went on until after midnight. did you not hear or— on until after midnight. did you not hear or see — on until after midnight. did you not hear or see the noise of the gathering when you are going to your flat? if— gathering when you are going to your flat? if we _ gathering when you are going to your flat? if we perhaps explain, there is a narrow— flat? if we perhaps explain, there is a narrow corridor leading to the vestibule, — is a narrow corridor leading to the vestibule, before you get to it they stick it— vestibule, before you get to it they stick it on— vestibule, before you get to it they stick it on the left is to your flat~ — stick it on the left is to your flat~ your— stick it on the left is to your flat. your direct line of sight would — flat. your direct line of sight would be _ flat. your direct line of sight would be into the vestibule, not more _ would be into the vestibule, not more than — would be into the vestibule, not more than eight few metres away. there _ more than eight few metres away. there is— more than eight few metres away. there is a — more than eight few metres away. there is a gathering taking place between — there is a gathering taking place between 25 and 40 people. you had a direct— between 25 and 40 people. you had a direct line _ between 25 and 40 people. you had a direct line of— between 25 and 40 people. you had a direct line of sight, are you telling _ direct line of sight, are you telling me you are not aware of the noise _ telling me you are not aware of the noise or—

telling me you are not aware of the noise or event taking place? absolutely, what i would have... if i had looked, what i would have seen was people doing a huge amount of work on a very busy evening. i didn't look, i certainly have no memory of seeing any kind of party or illicit gathering going on in the press room. the first i heard about this and knew about it was when it was brought to my attention byjack dorsey was brought to my attention by jack dorsey almost a year later. was brought to my attention byjack dorsey almost a year later. if rare dorsey almost a year later. if we turn to pages — dorsey almost a year later. if we turn to pages 54, _ dorsey almost a year later. if we turn to pages 54, 56, _ dorsey almost a year later. if we turn to pages 54, 56, you - dorsey almost a year later. if we turn to pages 54, 56, you can i dorsey almost a year later. if we | turn to pages 54, 56, you can see this gathering was described in evidence — this gathering was described in evidence we received as far more relaxed _ evidence we received as far more relaxed than it should have been with people shoulder to shoulder with people shoulder to shoulder with each— with people shoulder to shoulder with each other, and one staff member— with each other, and one staff member who with each other, and one staff memberwho did not with each other, and one staff member who did not attend said they later heard _ member who did not attend said they later heard the gathering had turned into a _ later heard the gathering had turned into a party. did anyone tell you

about _ into a party. did anyone tell you about that?— into a party. did anyone tell you about that? ., , �* , , about that? no, they didn't. this is the crucial point. _ about that? no, they didn't. this is the crucial point. nobody _ about that? no, they didn't. this is the crucial point. nobody raised i about that? no, they didn't. this is | the crucial point. nobody raised any anxieties about that event with me before i stood up in the house of commons. nobody said to me we have had something, we have done something, in almost three years that followed between december the 18th 2020 and the 30th of november 2021, when jack 18th 2020 and the 30th of november 2021, whenjack came to see me, the thing was a complete blank to meet. the metropolitan police confirmed fixed penalty notices were issued to some _ fixed penalty notices were issued to some attendees at that gathering, clearly _ some attendees at that gathering, clearly therefore it breached the rules _ clearly therefore it breached the rules. there were no witnesses to say you _ rules. there were no witnesses to say you were at the gathering but did anyone make you aware at the time _ did anyone make you aware at the time or— did anyone make you aware at the time or after it happened, that it had not — time or after it happened, that it had not been compliant with covid rules? _ had not been compliant with covid rules? ., had not been compliant with covid rules? no. before we move on, you will know rules?- before we move on, you will know that _ rules? tic. before we move on, you will know that fixed penalty tickets were issued in relation to gatherings at two other dates. these

gatherings _ gatherings at two other dates. these gatherings took place on the 17th of december, 2020, and the 16th of april. _ december, 2020, and the 16th of april, 2021. this is confirmed by the metropolitan police statement at the metropolitan police statement at the end _ the metropolitan police statement at the end of the operation, which you will find _ the end of the operation, which you will find a _ the end of the operation, which you will find a copy of on page 89 and 91. will find a copy of on page 89 and 9i~ did _ will find a copy of on page 89 and 9i~ did you — will find a copy of on page 89 and 91. did you ever have any reason to think— 91. did you ever have any reason to think that _ 91. did you ever have any reason to think that sickness pills may have been _ think that sickness pills may have been broken at these gatherings on either— been broken at these gatherings on either of— been broken at these gatherings on either of these states? —— that covid _ either of these states? —— that covid rules— either of these states? —— that covid rules may have been broken. i don't covid rules may have been broken. i don't remember hearing... what i can tell the committee is none of these, i was conscious of none of these events as being in any way rule breaking or against the guidance, until stories started to emerge about them. that was after i had

spokenin about them. that was after i had spoken in the commons about them. they were not at all on my radar as things i should be concerned about. thank you. irate things i should be concerned about. thank ou. ~ ., ., things i should be concerned about. thank ou. ., ., , thank you. we have now considered the rules and _ thank you. we have now considered the rules and guidance _ thank you. we have now considered the rules and guidance relating i thank you. we have now considered the rules and guidance relating to i the rules and guidance relating to covid that were enforced at the time of the gatherings we have discussed with you, we have considered your knowledge of the rules and guidance in force and your attendance at a knowledge of gatherings that were not socially distanced and for which fixed penalty notices were issued. we will now compare that to what you said that the house of commons after media reports of these gatherings began emerging. we will concentrate on what you said to the house on the 1st of december and the 8th of december. we will first examine your assertions that the covid rules and guidance were followed in number ten, and i would like to invite andy carter to ask her questions about this. ., ., ., ., g; ::

this. on the afternoon of the 30th of november. _ this. on the afternoon of the 30th of november, i _ this. on the afternoon of the 30th of november, i understand i this. on the afternoon of the 30th of november, i understand the i this. on the afternoon of the 30th i of november, i understand the daily mirror— of november, i understand the daily mirror contacted the press office at downing _ mirror contacted the press office at downing street saying they were planning to publish an article alleging that events took place in downing — alleging that events took place in downing street in november and december where covid rules have been broken _ december where covid rules have been broken the _ december where covid rules have been broken. the article appeared online later that _ broken. the article appeared online later that day and it was a front—page splash on the 1st of december. you can see a copy of that on page _ december. you can see a copy of that on page 58 _ december. you can see a copy of that on page 58 in — december. you can see a copy of that on page 58 in your evidence bundle. i am guessing you must have known that he _ i am guessing you must have known that he would be asked about this at prime _ that he would be asked about this at prime minister's questions in the house _ prime minister's questions in the house of— prime minister's questions in the house of commons late the following day, the _ house of commons late the following day, the 1st of december. sure enough. — day, the 1st of december. sure enough, you worry. you were asked whether— enough, you worry. you were asked whether a _ enough, you worry. you were asked whether a christmas party was held in number— whether a christmas party was held in number ten whether a christmas party was held in numberten on whether a christmas party was held in number ten on the 18th of december, and he told the house all guidance _ december, and he told the house all guidance was followed completely in number— guidance was followed completely in number ten, guidance was followed completely in numberten, picking up guidance was followed completely in number ten, picking up on the things he said _ number ten, picking up on the things he said in— number ten, picking up on the things he said in your opening statement and the _ he said in your opening statement and the evidence you have given, you knew _ and the evidence you have given, you knew what _ and the evidence you have given, you

knew what the guidance was, ie maintaining social distancing wherever possible and ensuring mitigations in place if that wasn't possible. — mitigations in place if that wasn't possible, and you knew there had been _ possible, and you knew there had been gatherings where social distancing had not been maintained and masks — distancing had not been maintained and masks were not being worn and screens— and masks were not being worn and screens went in place because we have _ screens went in place because we have seen— screens went in place because we have seen some of the photographs there~ _ have seen some of the photographs there why— have seen some of the photographs there. why did he tell the house all guidance _ there. why did he tell the house all guidance was followed completely in number— guidance was followed completely in number ten? guidance was followed completely in numberten? | guidance was followed completely in number ten?— number ten? i am not certain there was any requirement _ number ten? i am not certain there was any requirement for— number ten? i am not certain there was any requirement for a _ number ten? i am not certain there was any requirement for a masks i was any requirement for a masks indoors. ~ ., ., was any requirement for a masks indoors-_ l _ was any requirement for a masks indoors-_ i see. - was any requirement for a masks indoors._ i see, the i indoors. mitigation. i see, the reason why — indoors. mitigation. i see, the reason why i _ indoors. mitigation. i see, the reason why i said _ indoors. mitigation. i see, the reason why i said all _ indoors. mitigation. i see, the reason why i said all guidance | indoors. mitigation. i see, the i reason why i said all guidance was followed completely in number ten, back to a lot of the questions that have been raised, between the event that took place and when i stood up to speak, in all the cases that you have mentioned, nobody came to me and said we have got a problem with this one, you need to worry about

this. there is no trace of that, in the written evidence or the electronic records, and that is a very extraordinary thing, given how serious that was. the reason i said what i said it was because i thought, i believed then, that the whole of the number ten team were doing a huge amount to follow the guidance and i talked to jack doyle about what had happened at that event, this is on the evening of the 30th of november, 2021. and it is about... my diary said it was about six o'clock, he comes in and says the daily mirror is going to run this story, he mentions a few other events, two of which i knew directly about a new there was no, as i

believed at the time, there was no issue with those. the other was something to do with an event at a conservative office which i knew nothing about. i asked him about this december 18 event, and i asked him to describe it. bear in mind, everything i said about that evening, which was a horrendously busy and difficult evening, we had had a long covid discussion over what to do with the kent variant, he told me it was within the rules. he said that people were sitting at their desks, drinking, admittedly, but that was not banned under any of the rules or guidance, it was regularfor people to the rules or guidance, it was regular for people to drink on a fridays. i concluded that it

sounded, to me, as though that event was within both the rules and guidance. that fortified me in what i stood up to say the following day. as it happens, when i said the guidance has been followed completely during number ten, which is what i actually said, i was missing the rendering —— i was miss moran bring —— i was miss moran bring the line that out to media. i didn't think that there was any real distinction from the public geraint thomas point of view between the rules and the guidance, in the sense of the observance. i thought they would expect us to follow the guidance as much as the rules, even though i said some subtly different, i still believe it was true. if though i said some subtly different, i still believe it was true.— i still believe it was true. if you said something _ i still believe it was true. if you said something slightly - i still believe it was true. if you i said something slightly different, why didn't you correct the record?

that would — why didn't you correct the record? that would have been the obvious things— that would have been the obvious things to — that would have been the obvious things to do. there is confusion between — things to do. there is confusion between guidance and rules but you could _ between guidance and rules but you could have — between guidance and rules but you could have corrected the record at that point — could have corrected the record at that point. i could have corrected the record at that oint. �* ~ ., , that point. i didn't think there was any appreciable — that point. i didn't think there was any appreciable difference - that point. i didn't think there was| any appreciable difference because it was our job any appreciable difference because it was ourjob to any appreciable difference because it was our job to follow the guidance as much as to follow the rules, and my view, as i have said repeatedly, to the committee this afternoon is that i believe we were following the guidance and insight of the pictures that we have all looked at, which seem to show a lack of perfect social distancing, i believe that what we were doing was in conformity with the rules, it certainly was for the period i was there, and i believe the behaviour was reasonable, given the constraints of the building and therefore in accordance with the guidance. 1 therefore in accordance with the ruidance. ~ ., �* ., guidance. i know you didn't attend the gathering _ guidance. i know you didn't attend the gathering on _ guidance. i know you didn't attend the gathering on the _ guidance. i know you didn't attend the gathering on the 18th - guidance. i know you didn't attend the gathering on the 18th of i the gathering on the 18th of december, you have been very clear about— december, you have been very clear about that — december, you have been very clear about that. but he had attended some of the _ about that. but he had attended some of the other gatherings that we

talked — of the other gatherings that we talked about. he just said that you asked _ talked about. he just said that you asked about the gathering on the 18th. _ asked about the gathering on the 18th. why— asked about the gathering on the 18th, why didn't you tell the house at that— 18th, why didn't you tell the house at that point, when you were asked, but there _ at that point, when you were asked, but there were some other gatherings in number— but there were some other gatherings in numberten? it but there were some other gatherings in number ten?— in number ten? it was jack doyle. because, in number ten? it was jack doyle. because. and _ in number ten? it was jack doyle. because, and this _ in number ten? it was jack doyle. because, and this goes _ in number ten? it was jack doyle. because, and this goes to - in number ten? it was jack doyle. because, and this goes to the i in number ten? it was jack doyle. l because, and this goes to the heart of what we are trying to establish, i didn't think those events were an issue, nobody had previously raised them with me as being things i ought to be concerned about. as i said repeatedly to you at the time, call me obtuse or oblivious, they did not seem to me to be in conflict with the rules or guidance as we were trying to implement it in number ten. ~ , �*, ten. the next prime minister's questions _ ten. the next prime minister's questions was _ ten. the next prime minister's questions was a _ ten. the next prime minister's questions was a week - ten. the next prime minister's questions was a week later, i ten. the next prime minister's questions was a week later, it| ten. the next prime minister's i questions was a week later, it would have been fair to say you would have guessed the topic would be brought up guessed the topic would be brought up again by the leader of the

opposition. because the previous evening itv had published a video of a mock press conference where number ten staff were seeminglyjoking about the gatherings on the 18th of december. you were asked if there was a party at number ten on the 13th of november and he told the house the guidance was followed and the rules were followed in downing street at all times. by the 8th of december, it had been a full week since you were first asked in the house about gatherings in number ten, the issue would continue to feature on the front page of many of the newspapers, and as we later saw on television, what did you do in that week to prepare for any further questions about gatherings, to decide whether you need to correct your previous statement, that the guidance had been followed and whether you should reaffirm it? rags whether you should reaffirm it? is the committee knows, i did the most obvious thing which was when the

allegra video emerged on the evening of the 7th of december, i decided i was getting conflicting information about what had happened at this gathering on the 18th of december, i was troubled by that, i hadn't been at the thing, i was relying on what i thought was the honest and well—intentioned descriptions of this from my trusted advisers. but clearly there was a difference of opinion. i commissioned the cabinet secretary to conduct an inquiry, thatis secretary to conduct an inquiry, that is the most important thing that is the most important thing that i did. that that is the most important thing that i did. �* ., ., that i did. at the end of that prime minister's questions, _ that i did. at the end of that prime minister's questions, you - that i did. at the end of that prime minister's questions, you had i that i did. at the end of that prime | minister's questions, you had been asked _ minister's questions, you had been asked multiple times about the issues — asked multiple times about the issues of— asked multiple times about the issues of gatherings in downing street. — issues of gatherings in downing street, but at no point did you tell the house — street, but at no point did you tell the house that you knew there had been _ the house that you knew there had been gatherings that you had attended, in particular the five we raised _ attended, in particular the five we raised with— attended, in particular the five we raised with you. why did you fail to

tell the _ raised with you. why did you fail to tell the house that there were gatherings you had attended? you have not gatherings you had attended? you have got to _ gatherings you had attended? gm. have got to understand that in my mind at the time, these did not seem to me to be improper or offensive events. they did not... they were not in my consciousness because i thought they were work events, as i said to the house, when we came to discuss the main 20th event, i came to the house to explain, i made it very clear that i thought this was a work event and i still do.— work event and i still do. having told the house _ work event and i still do. having told the house on _ work event and i still do. having told the house on the _ work event and i still do. having told the house on the 8th i work event and i still do. having told the house on the 8th of- told the house on the 8th of december that the guidance was followed and the rules were followed at all times in downing street, you then reiterated this the following month— then reiterated this the following month and told the house and generate _ month and told the house and generate the 12th, i believe that the events in question were within the events in question were within the guidance and weather were within the guidance and weather were within the rules _ the guidance and weather were within the rules. you attended at least

four gatherings, for which a fixed penalty— four gatherings, for which a fixed penalty notices were issued to attendees, which hadn't been compliant with the rules, and which breaches— compliant with the rules, and which breaches of— compliant with the rules, and which breaches of the rules and guidance must _ breaches of the rules and guidance must have — breaches of the rules and guidance must have been obvious to you because — must have been obvious to you because you were there. no, must have been obvious to you because you were there. no, the only spn that i received _ because you were there. no, the only spn that i received was _ because you were there. no, the only spn that i received was for _ because you were there. no, the only spn that i received was for the i spn that i received was for the event that we have been over in some detail, which was the event in the cabinet room, and i think that even this committee, i venture to suggest my conceit that had they been in my shoes at that event, it might not have occurred even to them that this was a event that was against either the rules or the guidance. it certainly didn't occur to me or the then chancellor of the exchequer or then chancellor of the exchequer or the media department. that was the only event for which i received one, all the other events, for the period i was there, i can only conclude were deemed by the met, to be not

real breaking events, because i wasn't issued with an spn. you have two sets of events, the one for which i received an f p n which boggles my mind because i couldn't understand why i had got it and the others, which i wasn't aware of rule breaking at the time and believed weaver following the guidance. there was nothing i could say to the house on that score. if was nothing i could say to the house on that score-— on that score. if you turn to page 61 of the evidence _ on that score. if you turn to page 61 of the evidence number, i on that score. if you turn to page 61 of the evidence number, you l on that score. if you turn to page i 61 of the evidence number, you can see a _ 61 of the evidence number, you can see a statement from the then private — see a statement from the then private secretary, in which he said he directly — private secretary, in which he said he directly questioned you whether it was— he directly questioned you whether it was realistic to argue that guidance _ it was realistic to argue that guidance had been followed at all times— guidance had been followed at all times in— guidance had been followed at all times in numberten. guidance had been followed at all times in number ten. do you except you are _ times in number ten. do you except you are advised not to say guidance was followed at all times, and yet he told _ was followed at all times, and yet he told the house it was on the 8th of decemberand he told the house it was on the 8th of december and the 12th ofjanuary? there _ of december and the 12th ofjanuary? there are _ of december and the 12th ofjanuary? there are a _ of december and the 12th ofjanuary? there are a couple of important points. it is true that martin reynolds was cautious about what i should say in the house on the 8th

of december because we had already begun the process of the inquiry. we were looking at the december the 18th event. i had received assurances about the rules on december the 18th but i hadn't received assurances about the guidance. what martin was trying to get at, if you look at what he says, it is clear, he is talking about social distancing and whether we had maintained social distancing within number ten, maintained social distancing within numberten, and maintained social distancing within number ten, and whether that weather we had maintained perfect social distancing. if you look at... on on a second. martin makes it clear that he thinks the nature of the working environment in number ten might make it difficult to claim that full social distancing was observed.

forgive me. we do not need to vote. it is forgive me. we do not need to vote. it is a _ forgive me. we do not need to vote. it is a very— forgive me. we do not need to vote. it is a very important point, it goes to the heart of the confusion. in his comments to me, martin is talking about whether or not we observed perfect social distancing, he is not saying that we did not observe the guidance, and i can prove that, if you would just reflect for a second on what it would mean if he had said that throughout the pandemic we were not observing the guidance, he didn't mean that. he and i were responsible for making sure we were observing the guidance to the best of our ability. if you asked simon case or any of the senior officials, where you flouting the guidance in number

ten, they would have said no. we were following the guidance, but with mitigations and social distancing where possible as specified in the guidance. {lin specified in the guidance. on reflection — specified in the guidance. on reflection and given that mr reynolds said you agreed to delete the reference to guidance, do you wish you — the reference to guidance, do you wish you had corrected the record at that point? — wish you had corrected the record at that point? no, wish you had corrected the record at that oint? ., , , , ., . that point? no, because first of all we had already _ that point? no, because first of all we had already begun _ that point? no, because first of all we had already begun the - that point? no, because first of all we had already begun the inquiry l that point? no, because first of all. we had already begun the inquiry and i didn't know in what sense the guidance had been broken. i had no evidence that anybody had broken the guidance, it was unclear to me what i would say to the house of commons. secondly, nobody was advising me to correct the record. and martin and |. correct the record. and martin and i, as i have tried to explain, were talking about two different things.

i was talking about the totality following the guidance, he was talking about maintaining perfect social distancing. the advice that he was giving me was in relation to a statement that i was making about the december the 18th event and about the reassurances i had received, and it was true to say that i received reassurances about that i received reassurances about that event as far as the rules went, but it was also true to say that nobody had explicitly reassured me about the guidance and he thought it prudent to take out the reference to the guidance. it is true, as you just said, i then went on to talk to catherine west, she asked a question, and as you said, i said that... she asked a question whether there had been a party on november

there had been a party on november the 13th, i said there had been a party on november the 13th, isaid no there had been a party on november the 13th, i said no but i was sure the 13th, i said no but i was sure the rules and guidance had been observed. i said whatever happened, i am sure the rules and guidance had been observed at all times and i said that with confidence because i knew about the events she was talking about on november the 13th and had my own personal reasons to believe that was true. xft�*aur and had my own personal reasons to believe that was true.— believe that was true. your written statement. — believe that was true. your written statement. you — believe that was true. your written statement, you said _ believe that was true. your written statement, you said you'd - believe that was true. your written statement, you said you'd do i believe that was true. your written statement, you said you'd do not l statement, you said you'd do not believe _ statement, you said you'd do not believe perfect compliance with social— believe perfect compliance with social distancing was required by the guidance. if you believe this, why did _ the guidance. if you believe this, why did you not to make it clear when _ why did you not to make it clear when he — why did you not to make it clear when he told the house that the guidance — when he told the house that the guidance was followed at all times? that is— guidance was followed at all times? that is a _ guidance was followed at all times? that is a very good question and perhaps it would have been... as i think sir bernard said earlier on, perhaps if i had elucidate it more clearly what i meant and felt and believed about following the guidance, that would have helped.

probably final question. paragraph 28 of— probably final question. paragraph 28 of your — probably final question. paragraph 28 of your submission, you quote an excerpt— 28 of your submission, you quote an excerpt from — 28 of your submission, you quote an excerpt from the workplace guidance which _ excerpt from the workplace guidance which it _ excerpt from the workplace guidance which it says where the social distancing guidelines cannot be followed in full in relation to a particular— followed in full in relation to a particular activity, followed in full in relation to a particularactivity, businesses should — particularactivity, businesses should consider whether that activity— should consider whether that activity needs to continue for the business — activity needs to continue for the business to operate and if so, take the mitigating actions possible to reduce _ the mitigating actions possible to reduce the risk of transmission. are you saying — reduce the risk of transmission. are you saying he thought these galleries are so critical to the function _ galleries are so critical to the function of government, it was permissible to hold them? the short answer is yes- _ permissible to hold them? the short answer is yes- i _ permissible to hold them? the short answer is yes. i thought _ permissible to hold them? the short answer is yes. i thought it _ permissible to hold them? the short answer is yes. i thought it was i answer is yes. i thought it was essential to thank staff for their work, i think that even though the pictures seemed to show festive events, i think there are efforts events, i think there are efforts evenin events, i think there are efforts even in those pictures being made to do social distancing. what i had in my head when i was talking to the house of commons was a strong memory of people over a long period doing

everything they could to stop the spread of disease within the building. spread of disease within the buildinr. , . spread of disease within the buildinr, , ,., �* spread of disease within the buildinr. , �* . ., ., building. just so we're clear, at those events, _ building. just so we're clear, at those events, not _ building. just so we're clear, at those events, not the - building. just so we're clear, at those events, not the first i building. just so we're clear, at i those events, not the first picture to be _ those events, not the first picture to be so. — those events, not the first picture to be so, what mitigations were put in place _ to be so, what mitigations were put in place that were required by the guidance? — in place that were required by the guidance? | in place that were required by the auidance? . , ., guidance? i have listed some of them, but _ guidance? i have listed some of them. but we — guidance? i have listed some of them, but we avoided _ guidance? i have listed some of them, but we avoided physical. them, but we avoided physical contact, we didn't touch each other�*s pens, we didn't pass stuff to each other if he could possibly avoid it. we kept, other not everybody... i wouldn't wish to say that was perfectly implemented. presumably people were patting drinks to each other because we have seen the picture. {iii drinks to each other because we have seen the picture.— seen the picture. of course, this is ruidance. seen the picture. of course, this is guidance- l— seen the picture. of course, this is guidance- i am _ seen the picture. of course, this is guidance. i am not— seen the picture. of course, this is guidance. i am not going _ seen the picture. of course, this is guidance. i am not going to - seen the picture. of course, this is l guidance. i am not going to pretend that it was enforced rigidly, but it is basically what the guidance provides for. we had zoom meetings, a great reduction in the numbers of

people in the building overall, we had signs telling you which way to walk. we had perspex screens and i mentioned all this before, but it is worth going over again. he is asking about that specific _ worth going over again. he is asking about that specific event. _ worth going over again. he is asking about that specific event. when i worth going over again. he is asking about that specific event. when you | about that specific event. when you see the photographs _ about that specific event. when you see the photographs in _ about that specific event. when you see the photographs in the - see the photographs in the vestibule, none of those mitigations seem _ vestibule, none of those mitigations seem to _ vestibule, none of those mitigations seem to be — vestibule, none of those mitigations seem to be evident.— vestibule, none of those mitigations seem to be evident. which event are ou talkin: seem to be evident. which event are you talking about? _ seem to be evident. which event are you talking about? the _ seem to be evident. which event are you talking about? the first - you talking about? the first photograph _ you talking about? the first photograph we _ you talking about? the first photograph we saw. - you talking about? the first photograph we saw. the i you talking about? the first - photograph we saw. the november you talking about? the first _ photograph we saw. the november to 13. that is because _ photograph we saw. the november to 13. that is because that _ photograph we saw. the november to 13. that is because that was _ photograph we saw. the november to 13. that is because that was the i 13. that is because that was the space where people congregated fast, if i wanted to get a message out, it was the natural place to do it. yes, you do not see perspex screens there but that doesn't mean there wasn't sanitised so and efforts to restrict

the spread of covid. in all of this, bearin the spread of covid. in all of this, bear in mind, that we believed, michael reynolds believed, everyone responsible for the health of the building and employees believed that the guidance was being very considerably augmented in a way that went beyond the guidance by the testing machine that i described —— martin reynolds. i testing machine that i described -- martin reynolds.— martin reynolds. i don't think any members of _ martin reynolds. i don't think any members of this _ martin reynolds. i don't think any members of this committee i martin reynolds. i don't think any members of this committee don't| members of this committee don't recognise — members of this committee don't recognise the challenge you are facing _ recognise the challenge you are facing and the team were facing in downing _ facing and the team were facing in downing street, and the steps that were being put in place to try and keep— were being put in place to try and keep people safe, but i want to finish _ keep people safe, but i want to finish with a comment to me to the house _ finish with a comment to me to the house on— finish with a comment to me to the house on the 12th ofjanuary, that he believed implicitly that the gatherings of the 20th of may which you attended had been a work event. that was— you attended had been a work event. that was the event in the garden. it has been _ that was the event in the garden. it has been termed in the press as the bring _ has been termed in the press as the bring your— has been termed in the press as the bring your own booze, it was a garden — bring your own booze, it was a garden party. many are suggesting it

was clearly not essential for workplaces and in breach of the covid _ workplaces and in breach of the covid rules at the time. why did you say that— covid rules at the time. why did you say that to _ covid rules at the time. why did you say that to the house? | covid rules at the time. why did you say that to the house?— say that to the house? i implicitly believed it was _ say that to the house? i implicitly believed it was a _ say that to the house? i implicitly believed it was a work _ say that to the house? i implicitly believed it was a work event. i say that to the house? i implicitly believed it was a work event. as i j believed it was a work event. as i said to the committee just now, i was ushered out into the garden having been briefed shortly beforehand about what the event entailed, i metand beforehand about what the event entailed, i met and thanked various groups of people who had been working on a covid, ecb numbers are calculated between ten and 30 or 40, i couldn't say exactly how many were there but i thought it was an appropriate use of the garden. i felt it was an obvious work event, but what i said to sue gray afterwards, if we can mention sue gray, can we, tjere? whatl afterwards, if we can mention sue gray, can we, tjere? what i said when i looked back on that event, when i looked back on that event, when i looked back on that event, when i said what i said to the house, i tried to put myself in the

place of somebody, a member of the public looking over the garden wall and seeing that, and i had to accept that even though it was, i believe, within the guidance and rules, i have to accept that members of the public looking at it would have thought that looks to me like something he is not allowing us to do. ifelt something he is not allowing us to do. i felt that very keenly. in retrospect. i didn't feel it at the time. do you see what i am trying to say? i time. do you see what i am trying to sa ? . . time. do you see what i am trying to sa ? , ., ., time. do you see what i am trying to sa ? , . ., ., say? i understand that. can i ask ou one say? i understand that. can i ask you one further _ say? i understand that. can i ask you one further question. - say? i understand that. can i ask. you one further question. probably all mps _ you one further question. probably all mps who have been on days where we are _ all mps who have been on days where we are very— all mps who have been on days where we are very busy going from meeting to meeting _ we are very busy going from meeting to meeting rely on our advisors to guide _ to meeting rely on our advisors to guide us— to meeting rely on our advisors to guide us through where we are going. i understand what you said about that. _ i understand what you said about that. as — i understand what you said about that, as the prime minister working on a busy— that, as the prime minister working on a busy schedule. did you at any point _ on a busy schedule. did you at any point question any of the events you are going _ point question any of the events you are going to?— are going to? hindsight is a wonderful— are going to? hindsight is a wonderful thing, _ are going to? hindsight is a wonderful thing, in - are going to? hindsight is a i wonderfulthing, in retrospect are going to? hindsight is a i wonderful thing, in retrospect i might have thought about some

things. post sue gray, post the beginning of the coming to light of everything that did come to light. i have thought about it, but no, at the time i thought we were working. i thought we were working and that is what, i promise you, that is what officials in number ten thought they were doing as well.— were doing as well. thank you very much. were doing as well. thank you very much- can — were doing as well. thank you very much- can we _ were doing as well. thank you very much. can we now— were doing as well. thank you very much. can we now turn _ were doing as well. thank you very much. can we now turn to - were doing as well. thank you very much. can we now turn to the i were doing as well. thank you very | much. can we now turn to the issue ofthe much. can we now turn to the issue of the assurances _ much. can we now turn to the issue of the assurances that _ much. can we now turn to the issue of the assurances that you - much. can we now turn to the issue of the assurances that you mention | of the assurances that you mention to the house on numerous occasions, and i would like to pass alberto costa to the questions on the issue of assurances. good afternoon, mrjohnson, thank you for— good afternoon, mrjohnson, thank you for coming, i am very grateful. could _ you for coming, i am very grateful. could i_ you for coming, i am very grateful. could i ask— you for coming, i am very grateful. could i ask the team to bring up the slide number eight, please. as we have _ slide number eight, please. as we have just — slide number eight, please. as we

have just seen on the screen, on the 8th of— have just seen on the screen, on the 8th of december 2021, and your opening — 8th of december 2021, and your opening remarks at prime minister's questions. — opening remarks at prime minister's questions, you told the house that, i questions, you told the house that, i have _ questions, you told the house that, i have been— questions, you told the house that, i have been repeatedly assured since these _ i have been repeatedly assured since these allegations emerged that there was no _ these allegations emerged that there was no party and no covid rules were broken. _ was no party and no covid rules were broken. and — was no party and no covid rules were broken, and in response to subsequent questions you said, i have _ subsequent questions you said, i have been— subsequent questions you said, i have been repeatedly assured rules were not— have been repeatedly assured rules were not broken. again, i have been repeatedly— were not broken. again, i have been repeatedly assured no rules were broken _ repeatedly assured no rules were broken. these quotes which are on the screen — broken. these quotes which are on the screen are also at pages 64—65 of the _ the screen are also at pages 64—65 of the evidence bundle. the screen are also at pages 64-65 of the evidence bundle.— the screen are also at pages 64-65 of the evidence bundle. thank you. mrjohnson. _ of the evidence bundle. thank you. mrjohnson. may — of the evidence bundle. thank you. mrjohnson, may i _ of the evidence bundle. thank you. mrjohnson, may i ask, _ of the evidence bundle. thank you. mrjohnson, may i ask, did - of the evidence bundle. thank you. mrjohnson, may i ask, did any i mrjohnson, may i ask, did any government law officers or any member— government law officers or any member of the government legal department, such as the attorney general. — department, such as the attorney general, solicitor general, orany general, solicitor general, or any one general, solicitor general, orany one of— general, solicitor general, orany one of the — general, solicitor general, orany one of the hundreds of solicitors and barristers that work for the government, did any of those give

you assurance? the government, did any of those give you assurance?— government, did any of those give you assurance? the short answer is no, the you assurance? the short answer is no. they didn't. _ you assurance? the short answer is no, they didn't, but _ you assurance? the short answer is no, they didn't, but nor _ you assurance? the short answer is no, they didn't, but nor did - you assurance? the short answer is no, they didn't, but nor did i i you assurance? the short answer is no, they didn't, but nor did i seek l no, they didn't, but nor did i seek assurances from them. i don't think i claim that any stage that i had received assurances from law officers are legal representatives. the people who had given me the assurances, and it was on more than one occasion, and so, would it be helpful if i told you why i said that i was repeatedly assured? let him ask his questions and follow the course _ him ask his questions and follow the course. . . w' him ask his questions and follow the course. . . w ., him ask his questions and follow the course. . . a ., ., course. can i ask, did the head of the civil services _ course. can i ask, did the head of the civil services or _ course. can i ask, did the head of the civil services or any _ course. can i ask, did the head of the civil services or any other- the civil services or any other career— the civil services or any other career permanent senior civil servant — career permanent senior civil servant give you these assurances? it

servant give you these assurances? it follows _ servant give you these assurances? it follows from martin reynolds evidence that he thought the rows had not been broken. if you look at what he has to say. i don't remember being specifically assured by any senior civil servant about the rules or the guidance within number ten, but the interesting thing is that to the contrary, nobody gave me any contrary advice. lcrate the contrary, nobody gave me any contrary advice.— contrary advice. we will come to that if we may. _ contrary advice. we will come to that if we may. in _ contrary advice. we will come to that if we may. in paragraph i contrary advice. we will come to that if we may. in paragraph 90| contrary advice. we will come to l that if we may. in paragraph 90 of your very— that if we may. in paragraph 90 of your very helpful written submission, you say that the assurances given to you, they are statements confirming the surround pages _ statements confirming the surround pages 70. _ statements confirming the surround pages 70, 72 statements confirming the surround pages 70,72 and 75 of your evidence bundle~ _ pages 70, 72 and 75 of your evidence bundle~ they— pages 70,72 and 75 of your evidence bundle. they are both in the videos you had _ bundle. they are both in the videos you had personally appointed to the

position— you had personally appointed to the position of director of communications at number ten. they were political advisers who dealt with the — were political advisers who dealt with the media. why did you rely on assurance _ with the media. why did you rely on assurance from political advisers rather _ assurance from political advisers rather than as i mentioned a permanent civil servant are more importantly a government lawyer? the simle importantly a government lawyer? the: simple answer importantly a government lawyer? the simple answer is importantly a government lawyer? tt;e: simple answer is that when i needed to discover what had happened, whether the rules were broken, i asked first the senior adviser who was there and that was jack doyle. the following week, you can see that jack doyle confirms, he says in a whatsapp to me, i have been assured there was no party and no rules were broken, so he says not again to me. i also then rang james slack, and

both jack and james slack are people who i have the utmost regard for and i believe they would be completely straight with me about what happened and they both said that the rules had not been broken. the reason i didn't ask a lawyer or another civil servant was because they were the people who had been there and they could give a view about the legality of that event that i didn't think a non—eyewitness would be able to do it. non-eyewitness would be able to do it. ~ , ., . ., , ., it. when you decided to rely on the assurances — it. when you decided to rely on the assurances you _ it. when you decided to rely on the assurances you referred _ it. when you decided to rely on the assurances you referred to - it. when you decided to rely on the assurances you referred to in i it. when you decided to rely on the assurances you referred to in the l assurances you referred to in the house, _ assurances you referred to in the house. why — assurances you referred to in the house, why did you not then discuss the assurance with the cabinet secretary _ the assurance with the cabinet secretary simon case or your principal— secretary simon case or your principal private secretary martin reynolds — principal private secretary martin reynolds or a government lawyer, at the point _ reynolds or a government lawyer, at the point at _ reynolds or a government lawyer, at the point at which you had been given— the point at which you had been given the — the point at which you had been given the assurance by the individuals in question? why didn't you check— individuals in question? why didn't you check in with a government lawyer? —

you check in with a government la er? , a, you check in with a government la er? , t, o, you check in with a government la er? o, lawyer? first of all, martin reynolds _ lawyer? first of all, martin reynolds in _ lawyer? first of all, martin reynolds in addition - lawyer? first of all, martin reynolds in addition to - lawyer? first of all, martin l reynolds in addition to being lawyer? first of all, martin - reynolds in addition to being my principal private secretary is a lawyer and his view of all the events as you will see from his evidence as he believes that we follow the rules at all times and thatis follow the rules at all times and that is certainly what you said to me. you will see evidence from my submission that at least a couple of mp colleagues remember from the morning meeting that i asked generally that we follow the rules, where their? view of the assembled civil servants and advisers was that, no, we hadn't broken the rules and that's what they said. to that, no, we hadn't broken the rules and that's what they said.— and that's what they said. to are the ones in _ and that's what they said. to are the ones in paragraph _ and that's what they said. to are the ones in paragraph 90 - and that's what they said. to are the ones in paragraph 90 of - and that's what they said. to are the ones in paragraph 90 of your written _ the ones in paragraph 90 of your written submission where you state that the _ written submission where you state that the evidence given to us by sarah _ that the evidence given to us by sarah dines mp and andrew griffith

mp, sarah dines mp and andrew griffith mp. said— sarah dines mp and andrew griffith mp, said assurances gave you assurances at your daily meetings. -- said _ assurances at your daily meetings. —— said officials. that is what youte — —— said officials. that is what you're referring to? it -- said officials. that is what you're referring to?— -- said officials. that is what you're referring to? it is not clear what date — you're referring to? it is not clear what date sarah _ you're referring to? it is not clear what date sarah and _ you're referring to? it is not clear what date sarah and andrew- you're referring to? it is not clear- what date sarah and andrew remember but they certainly remember me receiving those assurances and don't forget, if i can make an important point, from the 7th of december onwards, the inquiry is under way, so you ask why didn't i ask simon case? i asked simon case to conduct an inquiry. i case? i asked simon case to conduct an inuui . . , case? i asked simon case to conduct an inui . ., , ., an inquiry. i am very grateful you recall sarah _ an inquiry. i am very grateful you recall sarah dines _ an inquiry. i am very grateful you recall sarah dines mp _ an inquiry. i am very grateful you recall sarah dines mp and - an inquiry. i am very grateful you recall sarah dines mp and simon| an inquiry. i am very grateful you - recall sarah dines mp and simon case mp giving _ recall sarah dines mp and simon case mp giving you those assurances but you were _ mp giving you those assurances but you were present at those meetings were those — you were present at those meetings were those mps said you were given assurance — were those mps said you were given assurance. you can correct me if i have _ assurance. you can correct me if i have misunderstood the point, who were the _ have misunderstood the point, who were the officials who gave these assurances in this meeting that you

have referred to at paragraph 98 and your written submissions? | have referred to at paragraph 98 and your written submissions?— your written submissions? i can't name these _ your written submissions? i can't name these officials. _ your written submissions? i can't name these officials. name - your written submissions? i can't name these officials. name we i your written submissions? i can't i name these officials. name we won your written submissions? i can't - name these officials. name we won -- name these officials. name we won -- name me one- — name these officials. name we won -- name me one- i— name these officials. name we won -- name me one. i don't— name these officials. name we won -- name me one. i don't know— name these officials. name we won -- name me one. i don't know if- name these officials. name we won -- name me one. i don't know if i - name these officials. name we won -- name me one. i don't know ifi can. i name me one. i don't know ifi can. are ou name me one. i don't know ifi can. are you saying _ name me one. i don't know ifi can. are you saying you _ name me one. i don't know ifi can. are you saying you can't _ name me one. i don't know ifi can. are you saying you can't remember| are you saying you can't remember their names — are you saying you can't remember their names are _ are you saying you can't remember their names are because _ are you saying you can't remember their names are because you - are you saying you can't remember their names are because you wanti are you saying you can't remember. their names are because you want not to breach _ their names are because you want not to breach their— their names are because you want not to breach their anonymity? _ their names are because you want not to breach their anonymity? are - their names are because you want not to breach their anonymity? are you i to breach their anonymity? are you not naming — to breach their anonymity? are you not naming these _ to breach their anonymity? are you not naming these officials - to breach their anonymity? are you not naming these officials who - to breach their anonymity? are you not naming these officials who use | not naming these officials who use they were — not naming these officials who use they were giving _ not naming these officials who use they were giving you _ not naming these officials who use they were giving you these - they were giving you these assurances _ they were giving you these assurances because - they were giving you these assurances because you i they were giving you these . assurances because you can't remember— assurances because you can't remember who— assurances because you can't remember who they- assurances because you can't remember who they were - assurances because you can't remember who they were ori assurances because you can't i remember who they were or you assurances because you can't - remember who they were or you can't remember— remember who they were or you can't remember the — remember who they were or you can't rememberthe names— remember who they were or you can't remember the names are _ remember who they were or you can't remember the names are because - remember who they were or you can't| remember the names are because you don't want _ remember the names are because you don't want to — remember the names are because you don't want to breach _ don't want to breach confidentiality? - don't want to breach confidentiality? don't want to breach confidentiali ? , ., ., , confidentiality? there is at least one adviser _ confidentiality? there is at least one adviser i _ confidentiality? there is at least one adviser i can _ confidentiality? there is at least one adviser i can think - confidentiality? there is at least one adviser i can think of - confidentiality? there is at least one adviser i can think of who i confidentiality? there is at least. one adviser i can think of who has asked not to be named and she would have been in the morning meeting and i don't want to... have been in the morning meeting and i don't want to. . ._ i don't want to... could you follow that i don't want to. .. could you follow that u- i don't want to... could you follow that up and _ i don't want to... could you follow that up and writing _ i don't want to... could you follow that up and writing through your l that up and writing through your lawyers — that up and writing through your lawyers to the inquiry confirming the name — lawyers to the inquiry confirming the name of the individual that you recall— the name of the individual that you recall gave — the name of the individual that you recall gave you the assurances in

the meeting referred to? ifi may sa so i the meeting referred to? ifi may say so i don't _ the meeting referred to? ifi may say so i don't quite _ the meeting referred to? ifi may say so i don't quite follow - the meeting referred to? ifi may say so i don't quite follow the - say so i don't quite follow the direction of your questions because it is clear from what i said that i was assured repeatedly by different people [and on different occasions that the rows had been followed. brute that the rows had been followed. we are trying to ascertain who these individuals were so it would be very helpful— individuals were so it would be very helpful if— individuals were so it would be very helpful if you could follow up with the individual isjust referred to. could _ the individual isjust referred to. could i_ the individual isjust referred to. could i ask— the individual isjust referred to. could i ask the team to place slide nine on _ could i ask the team to place slide nine on the — could i ask the team to place slide nine on the screens, please? slide nine on the screens, please? slide nine refers — nine on the screens, please? slide nine refers to a comment made by mr doyle _ nine refers to a comment made by mr doyle and _ nine refers to a comment made by mr doyle and that will also be found at pa-e doyle and that will also be found at page 74 _ doyle and that will also be found at page 74 of — doyle and that will also be found at page 74 of the bundle. mr doyle is asked _ page 74 of the bundle. mr doyle is asked a _ page 74 of the bundle. mr doyle is asked a question, was there a discussion— asked a question, was there a discussion on this question, the meeting — discussion on this question, the meeting of the 8th of december 2021, whether— meeting of the 8th of december 2021, whether covid guidance was adhered to at all— whether covid guidance was adhered to at all times, and mr doyle states, — to at all times, and mr doyle states, i_ to at all times, and mr doyle states, i did not advise the prime minister— states, i did not advise the prime

minister to— states, i did not advise the prime minister to see this. mr doyle says he did _ minister to see this. mr doyle says he did not— minister to see this. mr doyle says he did not discuss with you when the -- whether— he did not discuss with you when the —— whether any gatherings were compliant — —— whether any gatherings were compliant with covid guidance. is it correct _ compliant with covid guidance. is it correct that — compliant with covid guidance. is it correct that you received no assurances that the gathering of 18th december 2020 or any other gatherings were compliant with covid guidance? _ gatherings were compliant with covid auidance? , , _, . gatherings were compliant with covid auidance? , , . ., guidance? yes. it is correct to say that i did rrot _ guidance? yes. it is correct to say that i did not as _ guidance? yes. it is correct to say that i did not as far _ guidance? yes. it is correct to say that i did not as far as _ guidance? yes. it is correct to say that i did not as far as i _ guidance? yes. it is correct to say that i did not as far as i can - that i did not as far as i can remember i didn't receive direct assurances about the december 18 event, about the guidance, but until martin reynolds made his point to me on the morning of the eighth, nobody had said to me anything adverse about our following of the guidance. it was my impression from what we were doing, from my lived experience in number ten that we were. i’m in number ten that we were. i'm t in: to in number ten that we were. i'm trying to ascertain about assurances

given _ trying to ascertain about assurances given i— trying to ascertain about assurances uiven. . , ., trying to ascertain about assurances uiven. ., ,, ., , given. i am giving you the answer. let me carry _ given. i am giving you the answer. let me carry on- — given. i am giving you the answer. let me carry on. can _ given. i am giving you the answer. let me carry on. can i _ given. i am giving you the answer. let me carry on. can i ask- given. i am giving you the answer. let me carry on. can i ask you - given. i am giving you the answer. let me carry on. can i ask you to l let me carry on. can i ask you to turn — let me carry on. can i ask you to turn to— let me carry on. can i ask you to turn to pages 70 and 73 of your evidence — turn to pages 70 and 73 of your evidence bundle and you will see excerpts — evidence bundle and you will see excerpts from mr doyle's signed witness — excerpts from mr doyle's signed witness submission. mr doyle says, and i_ witness submission. mr doyle says, and i quote, — witness submission. mr doyle says, and i quote, the lines that were drafted — and i quote, the lines that were drafted for the daily mirror became the basis _ drafted for the daily mirror became the basis of mrjohnson's lines to take in— the basis of mrjohnson's lines to take in prime minister's questions on the _ take in prime minister's questions on the 1st— take in prime minister's questions on the 1st of december 2021, end guote _ on the 1st of december 2021, end guote he — on the 1st of december 2021, end quote. he also says in relation to a conversation — quote. he also says in relation to a conversation he had with you on the 30th of— conversation he had with you on the 30th of november, quote, i said that we have _ 30th of november, quote, i said that we have had — 30th of november, quote, i said that we have had an inquiry from the daily— we have had an inquiry from the daily mirror. he said, what is our line? _ daily mirror. he said, what is our line? end — daily mirror. he said, what is our line? end quote. page 76 of your evidence — line? end quote. page 76 of your evidence bundle shows the line sent

to the _ evidence bundle shows the line sent to the daily mirror was, covid rules were _ to the daily mirror was, covid rules were followed at all times. so that line, were followed at all times. so that line. the _ were followed at all times. so that line, the assurance that you relied on in _ line, the assurance that you relied on in the _ line, the assurance that you relied on in the house of commons on the 8th of— on in the house of commons on the 8th of december was initially developed as no more than a media line to _ developed as no more than a media line to hold — developed as no more than a media line to hold at bay press inquiries, wasn't _ line to hold at bay press inquiries, wasn't it? — line to hold at bay press inquiries, wasn't it? , , ., �* , ., , wasn't it? yes, but i don't see any ureat wasn't it? yes, but i don't see any great advice _ wasn't it? yes, but i don't see any great advice on _ wasn't it? yes, but i don't see any great advice on that, _ wasn't it? yes, but i don't see any great advice on that, and - wasn't it? yes, but i don't see any great advice on that, and i - wasn't it? yes, but i don't see any great advice on that, and i think . great advice on that, and i think we have to be absolutely realistic about how government is carried on. if a minister cannot rely on the advice of senior and trusted officials when you have to get a huge amount of business done then it would be impossible for government to carry on. can would be impossible for government to car on. ., ., ,, would be impossible for government tocar on. ., would be impossible for government to carry om— to carry on. can i ask you, you have acknowledged _ to carry on. can i ask you, you have acknowledged that _ to carry on. can i ask you, you have acknowledged that it _ to carry on. can i ask you, you have acknowledged that it was _ to carry on. can i ask you, you have| acknowledged that it was developed as a media — acknowledged that it was developed as a media line— acknowledged that it was developed as a media line to _ acknowledged that it was developed as a media line to hold _ acknowledged that it was developed as a media line to hold at— acknowledged that it was developed as a media line to hold at bay- acknowledged that it was developed as a media line to hold at bay the i as a media line to hold at bay the press _ as a media line to hold at bay the press inquiries, _ as a media line to hold at bay the press inquiries, so _ as a media line to hold at bay the press inquiries, so i _ as a media line to hold at bay the press inquiries, so i think- as a media line to hold at bay the press inquiries, so i think we - as a media line to hold at bay thel press inquiries, so i think we need to hear— press inquiries, so i think we need

to hear the — press inquiries, so i think we need to hear the next— press inquiries, so i think we need to hear the next question. - to hear the next question. thank ou. it is to hear the next question. thank you- it is the _ to hear the next question. thank you. it is the case, _ to hear the next question. thank you. it is the case, isn't - to hear the next question. thank you. it is the case, isn't it, - to hear the next question. thank you. it is the case, isn't it, that. you. it is the case, isn't it, that jack— you. it is the case, isn't it, that jack doyle. _ you. it is the case, isn't it, that jack doyle, the person who is purported assurance you sought to rely on _ purported assurance you sought to rely on was — purported assurance you sought to rely on was himself doubtful about the compliance of some of these gatherings with the euro and guidance. gatherings with the euro and uuidance. ~ , ., ., guidance. when did you derive that? if ou turn guidance. when did you derive that? if you turn to — guidance. when did you derive that? if you turn to page _ guidance. when did you derive that? if you turn to page 79 _ guidance. when did you derive that? if you turn to page 79 of _ guidance. when did you derive that? if you turn to page 79 of your- if you turn to page 79 of your evidence _ if you turn to page 79 of your evidence bundle you will see a selection — evidence bundle you will see a selection of whatsapp messages sent by mr doyle. these messages are discussing — by mr doyle. these messages are discussing the gathering of the 19th ofjune _ discussing the gathering of the 19th ofjune 2020 that mark to your birthday — ofjune 2020 that mark to your birthday. mr doyle says that he was, and i_ birthday. mr doyle says that he was, and l guote, — birthday. mr doyle says that he was, and i quote, struggling to come up with a _ and i quote, struggling to come up with a way— and i quote, struggling to come up with a way that the gathering was in the rules, _ with a way that the gathering was in the rules, and he was, quote, not

sure _ the rules, and he was, quote, not sure it _ the rules, and he was, quote, not sure it would _ the rules, and he was, quote, not sure it would work to suggest it was reasonably— sure it would work to suggest it was reasonably necessary for work purposes~ _ reasonably necessary for work purposes. were you aware, mr johnson, — purposes. were you aware, mr johnson, that your trusted senior adviser, — johnson, that your trusted senior adviser, as — johnson, that your trusted senior adviser, as you have put it, doubted whether— adviser, as you have put it, doubted whether this — adviser, as you have put it, doubted whether this gathering was within the rules? no whether this gathering was within the rules? ., , ., , ., ., the rules? no is the answer to that cuestion. the rules? no is the answer to that question- i — the rules? no is the answer to that question. i wasn't _ the rules? no is the answer to that question. i wasn't aware _ the rules? no is the answer to that question. i wasn't aware he - the rules? no is the answer to that question. i wasn't aware he had . the rules? no is the answer to that i question. i wasn't aware he had sent that whatsapp. this was january the 25th, which has long after we started the process which was to become the circuitry inquiry. it was already well under way. a couple of other points if i may on that whatsapp. jack was not at that event on the 19th ofjune 2019. he knew nothing about what had actually taken place. he was then relying on media descriptions of that event

which had subsequently emerged. yes, he sent a message to someone else saying he needed to work out what the justification was. saying he needed to work out what thejustification was. butjust saying he needed to work out what the justification was. butjust to go back to the during the 19th event, twenty20, which we have been over several times, at the time i thought it was so innocent that it was actually briefed out to the times. i was actually briefed out to the times. . . ~ was actually briefed out to the times. ., ., ,, ., . , times. i am talking about assurances ou were times. i am talking about assurances you were given _ times. i am talking about assurances you were given so — times. i am talking about assurances you were given so let _ times. i am talking about assurances you were given so let me _ times. i am talking about assurances you were given so let me focus - you were given so let me focus again — you were given so let me focus again. how can it be that mr doyle, and this— again. how can it be that mr doyle, and this is— again. how can it be that mr doyle, and this is the point i think is important _ and this is the point i think is important for the inquiry to understand, how can it be that mr doyle. _ understand, how can it be that mr doyle. one — understand, how can it be that mr doyle, one of your principal and trusted — doyle, one of your principal and trusted advisors, the person who is assurance _ trusted advisors, the person who is assurance you relied in the house of commons, _ assurance you relied in the house of commons, was himself clearly doubtful— commons, was himself clearly doubtful about the compliance of this gathering with the rules? you continue _ this gathering with the rules? you continue to— this gathering with the rules? you continue to say that you are not. he was not continue to say that you are not. was not at continue to say that you are not. he: was not at that event, he was

struggling to contend with media accounts of it long after that event and after the sue gray inquiry had also begun. he did not even at that time, let alone before i stood up in the house of commons, raised with me any concerns that he might have had about that event. even if he knew about that event. even if he knew about it. i about that event. even if he knew about it. ., ., , ~ about it. i am almost finished, mr johnson. about it. i am almost finished, mr johnson- why _ about it. i am almost finished, mr johnson. why did _ about it. i am almost finished, mr johnson. why did you _ about it. i am almost finished, mr johnson. why did you tell- about it. i am almost finished, mr johnson. why did you tell the - about it. i am almost finished, mr l johnson. why did you tell the house of commons that you had received repeated _ of commons that you had received repeated assurances that no rules had been — repeated assurances that no rules had been broken when you knew that that was— had been broken when you knew that that was not the case? because you knew _ that was not the case? because you knew what — that was not the case? because you knew what the rules were, you are at gatherings _ knew what the rules were, you are at gatherings that breach the rules and the breaches of the rules would have been obvious to you at the time. complete — been obvious to you at the time. complete the question, if you made. some _ complete the question, if you made. some might — complete the question, if you made. some might say— complete the question, if you made. some might say your— complete the question, if you made. some might say your reliance - complete the question, if you made. some might say your reliance on - complete the question, if you made. some might say your reliance on the| some might say your reliance on the purported _ some might say your reliance on the purported assurances you receive as,

forgive _ purported assurances you receive as, forgive me. _ purported assurances you receive as, forgive me, as a deflection mechanism to prevent having to answer— mechanism to prevent having to answer questions about your knowledge of these gatherings. would that not _ knowledge of these gatherings. would that not be a fair assessment? it would that not be a fair assessment? would be a that not be a fair assessment? it would be a completely ridiculous assessment. i said would be a completely ridiculous assessment. isaid in would be a completely ridiculous assessment. i said in the commons on the 8th of december that i have been repeatedly assured there was no party and no rules were broken. i was referring to the december 18 event of the previous year, of 2020. i had the assurances i had received about that event were from people who i had the utmost respect for and who i had the utmost respect for and who were directly relevant to my understanding of what that event consisted of. it was entirely sensible to talk both to jack doyle and went to james slack to find out, to get their honest take about what

had happened. my impression on the 30th of november 2020 from what jack was telling me was that it sounded like it was in accordance with the euros, it sounded like it was necessary for work purposes, but also it sounded like it was in accordance with the guidance. when that turned out to be in question, i commissioned simon case, the cabinet secretary, to conduct an inquiry, so if you look at that statement, i say i have been repeatedly assured there was no party and the rules were followed. i have asked simon case to investigate, so for the purposes of the house, my statement should be seen for the purposes of the business of the house, that should be seen in the context of the

inquiry i havejust be seen in the context of the inquiry i have just launched. be seen in the context of the inquiry i havejust launched. in which the same pmqs, i say i am going to make sure the findings are placed in the library of the house of commons. placed in the library of the house of commons-— placed in the library of the house of commons. thank you very much indeed for — of commons. thank you very much indeed for answering _ of commons. thank you very much indeed for answering my _ of commons. thank you very much | indeed for answering my questions. can i_ indeed for answering my questions. can i put— indeed for answering my questions. can i put a — indeed for answering my questions. can i put a further point to you because — can i put a further point to you because i_ can i put a further point to you because i along _ can i put a further point to you because i along with _ can i put a further point to you because i along with my- can i put a further point to you - because i along with my colleagues were in— because i along with my colleagues were in the — because i along with my colleagues were in the house _ because i along with my colleagues were in the house at _ because i along with my colleagues were in the house at the _ because i along with my colleagues were in the house at the time - because i along with my colleaguesj were in the house at the time when these _ were in the house at the time when these assurances _ were in the house at the time when these assurances were _ were in the house at the time when these assurances were given - were in the house at the time when these assurances were given and i were in the house at the time wheni these assurances were given and we took them _ these assurances were given and we took them to— these assurances were given and we took them to be _ these assurances were given and we took them to be serious _ these assurances were given and we j took them to be serious assurances. you told _ took them to be serious assurances. you told me — took them to be serious assurances. you told me how— took them to be serious assurances. you told me how she _ took them to be serious assurances. you told me how she received - you told me how she received assurances~ _ you told me how she received assurances. we _ you told me how she received assurances. we do— you told me how she received assurances. we do not- you told me how she received assurances. we do not expect you told me how she received i assurances. we do not expect us you told me how she received - assurances. we do not expect us to be a bit — assurances. we do not expect us to be a bit dismayed _ assurances. we do not expect us to be a bit dismayed to— assurances. we do not expect us to be a bit dismayed to hear— assurances. we do not expect us to be a bit dismayed to hear that - assurances. we do not expect us to be a bit dismayed to hear that it- be a bit dismayed to hear that it was not — be a bit dismayed to hear that it was not from _ be a bit dismayed to hear that it was not from senior— be a bit dismayed to hear that it was not from senior civil- be a bit dismayed to hear that it. was not from senior civil servants but political — was not from senior civil servants but political appointees _ was not from senior civil servants but political appointees and - was not from senior civil servants but political appointees and theyl but political appointees and they themselves— but political appointees and they themselves had _ but political appointees and they themselves had doubts - but political appointees and they themselves had doubts about. but political appointees and they themselves had doubts about it. j but political appointees and they. themselves had doubts about it. it only covered — themselves had doubts about it. it only covered one _ themselves had doubts about it. it only covered one gathering, - themselves had doubts about it. it only covered one gathering, not. themselves had doubts about it. it. only covered one gathering, not the other— only covered one gathering, not the other three. — only covered one gathering, not the other three, and _ only covered one gathering, not the otherthree, and it— only covered one gathering, not the other three, and it only— only covered one gathering, not the other three, and it only covered - only covered one gathering, not the other three, and it only covered thej other three, and it only covered the rules, _ other three, and it only covered the rules, it _ other three, and it only covered the rules, it didn't— other three, and it only covered the rules, it didn't cover— other three, and it only covered the rules, it didn't cover the _ other three, and it only covered the rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i rules, it didn't cover the guidance. ithink— rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i think if— rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i think if you — rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i think if you had _ rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i think if you had said _ rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i think if you had said that - rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i think if you had said that to- rules, it didn't cover the guidance. i think if you had said that to us. i think if you had said that to us in the _ i think if you had said that to us in the house. _ i think if you had said that to us in the house, and _ i think if you had said that to us in the house, and all— i think if you had said that to us in the house, and all should - i think if you had said that to us| in the house, and all should the were there _ in the house, and all should the were there at _ in the house, and all should the were there at the _ in the house, and all should the were there at the time - in the house, and all should the were there at the time so - in the house, and all should the were there at the time so it- in the house, and all should the were there at the time so it is. in the house, and all should the i were there at the time so it is hard to understand _ were there at the time so it is hard to understand that _ were there at the time so it is hard to understand that might - were there at the time so it is hard to understand that might could - were there at the time so it is hard| to understand that might could you let me _ to understand that might could you let me finish — to understand that might could you let me finish the _ to understand that might could you let me finish the point? _ to understand that might could you let me finish the point? you - to understand that might could you let me finish the point? you were i let me finish the point? you were there _ let me finish the point? you were there at— let me finish the point? you were there at the — let me finish the point? you were there at the time _ let me finish the point? you were there at the time so— let me finish the point? you were there at the time so it _ let me finish the point? you were there at the time so it is - let me finish the point? you were

there at the time so it is a - let me finish the point? you were there at the time so it is a bit - there at the time so it is a bit hard — there at the time so it is a bit hard to— there at the time so it is a bit hard to understand _ there at the time so it is a bit hard to understand what - there at the time so it is a bit hard to understand what the i there at the time so it is a bit - hard to understand what the nature of the _ hard to understand what the nature of the assurance _ hard to understand what the nature of the assurance is _ hard to understand what the nature of the assurance is when _ hard to understand what the nature of the assurance is when you - hard to understand what the nature of the assurance is when you have. of the assurance is when you have been _ of the assurance is when you have been there — of the assurance is when you have been there and _ of the assurance is when you have been there and seen— of the assurance is when you have been there and seen it _ of the assurance is when you have been there and seen it with - of the assurance is when you have been there and seen it with your i of the assurance is when you have i been there and seen it with your own eyes _ been there and seen it with your own eyes if— been there and seen it with your own eyes if t _ been there and seen it with your own eyes if t was — been there and seen it with your own eyes if t was going _ been there and seen it with your own eyes. if i was going at— been there and seen it with your own eyes. if i was going at 100 _ been there and seen it with your own eyes. if i was going at 100 mph - been there and seen it with your own eyes. if i was going at 100 mph and i eyes. if i was going at 100 mph and isaw— eyes. if i was going at 100 mph and i saw the _ eyes. if i was going at 100 mph and i saw the speedometer— eyes. if i was going at 100 mph and i saw the speedometer saying - eyes. if i was going at 100 mph and i saw the speedometer saying 100 i eyes. if i was going at 100 mph and - i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would _ i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would be _ i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would be a _ i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would be a bit— i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would be a bit odd _ i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would be a bit odd if— i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would be a bit odd if i _ i saw the speedometer saying 100 mph it would be a bit odd if i said _ it would be a bit odd if i said somebody— it would be a bit odd if i said somebody assured - it would be a bit odd if i said somebody assured me - it would be a bit odd if i said somebody assured me that i it would be a bit odd if i saidj somebody assured me that i it would be a bit odd if i said - somebody assured me that i wasn't, because _ somebody assured me that i wasn't, because it _ somebody assured me that i wasn't, because it is — somebody assured me that i wasn't, because it is what _ somebody assured me that i wasn't, because it is what you _ somebody assured me that i wasn't, because it is what you have - somebody assured me that i wasn't, because it is what you have seen - because it is what you have seen with your — because it is what you have seen with your own _ because it is what you have seen with your own eyes. _ because it is what you have seen with your own eyes. do - because it is what you have seen with your own eyes. do you - because it is what you have seen i with your own eyes. do you actually think— with your own eyes. do you actually think we _ with your own eyes. do you actually think we would _ with your own eyes. do you actually think we would be _ with your own eyes. do you actually think we would be entitled - with your own eyes. do you actually think we would be entitled to - with your own eyes. do you actually think we would be entitled to be - with your own eyes. do you actually think we would be entitled to be a i think we would be entitled to be a bit dismayed _ think we would be entitled to be a bit dismayed about _ think we would be entitled to be a bit dismayed about the _ think we would be entitled to be a bit dismayed about the flimsy- think we would be entitled to be a i bit dismayed about the flimsy nature of this— bit dismayed about the flimsy nature of this assurance _ bit dismayed about the flimsy nature of this assurance when _ bit dismayed about the flimsy nature of this assurance when we _ bit dismayed about the flimsy nature of this assurance when we took - bit dismayed about the flimsy nature of this assurance when we took it - bit dismayed about the flimsy nature of this assurance when we took it ati of this assurance when we took it at face value _ of this assurance when we took it at face value that _ of this assurance when we took it at face value that these _ of this assurance when we took it at face value that these assurances . face value that these assurances amounted — face value that these assurances amounted to _ face value that these assurances amounted to something - face value that these assurances amounted to something and - face value that these assurances amounted to something and it . face value that these assurances - amounted to something and it looks from what _ amounted to something and it looks from what you — amounted to something and it looks from what you have _ amounted to something and it looks from what you have told _ amounted to something and it looks from what you have told us - amounted to something and it looks from what you have told us an - amounted to something and it looks i from what you have told us an answer to mr _ from what you have told us an answer to mr costa's — from what you have told us an answer to mr costa's questions _ from what you have told us an answer to mr costa's questions that - from what you have told us an answer to mr costa's questions that they - to mr costa's questions that they did not— to mr costa's questions that they did not amount _ to mr costa's questions that they did not amount to _ to mr costa's questions that they did not amount to much - to mr costa's questions that they did not amount to much at - to mr costa's questions that they did not amount to much at all? l to mr costa's questions that they i did not amount to much at all? first of all with great _ did not amount to much at all? of all with great respect if you're talking about the december 18, 2020 event, there is some confusion, i was not there. event, there is some confusion, i was rrot there-— event, there is some confusion, i was not there. that is one of three. and if you — was not there. that is one of three. and if you look _ was not there. that is one of three. and if you look at _ was not there. that is one of three. and if you look at the _ was not there. that is one of three. and if you look at the statement. was not there. that is one of three. and if you look at the statement i l and if you look at the statement i made in the house of commons, because this was the relevant issue because this was the relevant issue because the allegra video related to

the december 18 event, the leader of opposition's questions the previous week, related to the december 18 event, i was answering about the december 18 event because that was the matter in question. i have received, as i said, repeated assurances by different people on more than one occasion more than one person, that the event was in accordance with the rules. and i had that both from jack doyle and james slack. the question that i think the committee is trying to unpick is, is not a good enough assurance? is it good enough to rely on the director of communications and the former director of communications, one event, no matter how eminent they may be. i think the answer is yes. himself had doubts. ida.

may be. i think the answer is yes. himself had doubts.— may be. i think the answer is yes. himself had doubts. no, forgive me, that's not correct. _ himself had doubts. no, forgive me, that's not correct. the _ himself had doubts. no, forgive me, that's not correct. the director - himself had doubts. no, forgive me, that's not correct. the director of - that's not correct. the director of communications jack doyle did not say at the time that he briefed me about the december the 18th event that he had doubts about whether the guidance was followed. he that he had doubts about whether the guidance was followed.— guidance was followed. he did have doubts. where _ guidance was followed. he did have doubts. where is _ guidance was followed. he did have doubts. where is your _ guidance was followed. he did have doubts. where is your evidence - guidance was followed. he did have doubts. where is your evidence for| doubts. where is your evidence for that? it is in _ doubts. where is your evidence for that? it is in the _ doubts. where is your evidence for that? it is in the whatsapp. - doubts. where is your evidence for that? it is in the whatsapp. can i doubts. where is your evidence for that? it is in the whatsapp. can || that? it is in the whatsapp. can i sa he that? it is in the whatsapp. can i say he did _ that? it is in the whatsapp. can i say he did rrot — that? it is in the whatsapp. can i say he did not express _ that? it is in the whatsapp. can i say he did not express those - that? it is in the whatsapp. can i. say he did not express those doubts to me? he say he did not express those doubts to me? ., ., , , , ., to me? he had doubts, the person who is assurances — to me? he had doubts, the person who is assurances you _ to me? he had doubts, the person who is assurances you are _ to me? he had doubts, the person who is assurances you are relying _ to me? he had doubts, the person who is assurances you are relying on - is assurances you are relying on only— is assurances you are relying on only give — is assurances you are relying on only give assurance _ is assurances you are relying on only give assurance in - is assurances you are relying on only give assurance in relation i is assurances you are relying oni only give assurance in relation to one gathering, _ only give assurance in relation to one gathering, not— only give assurance in relation to one gathering, not the _ only give assurance in relation to one gathering, not the others. . only give assurance in relation to i one gathering, not the others. only -ive one gathering, not the others. only give assurance _ one gathering, not the others. only give assurance to _ one gathering, not the others. only give assurance to the _ one gathering, not the others. only give assurance to the euros, - one gathering, not the others. only give assurance to the euros, not. give assurance to the euros, not about _ give assurance to the euros, not about covid _ give assurance to the euros, not about covid l— give assurance to the euros, not about covid-— give assurance to the euros, not about covid. ., , , ., ., about covid. i was being asked about the one gathering. _ about covid. i was being asked about the one gathering. the _ about covid. i was being asked about the one gathering. the leader - about covid. i was being asked about the one gathering. the leader of - about covid. i was being asked about the one gathering. the leader of the j the one gathering. the leader of the opposition, you played his clip right now. everybody saw it. he was asking about, he said, was very party at which loads of people came, a christmas party in downing street

last year? that was the question. when i said that the guidance was followed completely at all times it was called into question by what allegra stratton had to say, so we immediately instituted the inquiry by simon case, but that remains the point at issue. the point at issue was what had happened on december the 18th. if the committee is going to say that i can't rely on the advice of senior people like jack doyle and james slack who had the advantage of actually being there thenit advantage of actually being there then it is really going to make it difficult for the government to be carried on. g , difficult for the government to be carried om— carried on. just two points arising- -- _ carried on. just two points arising... when _ carried on. just two points arising... when you - carried on. just two points arising... when you are i carried on. just two points - arising... when you are ready. two points— arising... when you are ready. two points arising — arising... when you are ready. two points arising from the recent questions and answers. first of all the question of sarah dines statement of evidence. where she

mentions — statement of evidence. where she mentions that either on the 1st of december— mentions that either on the 1st of december or the 8th of december she recalls _ december or the 8th of december she recalls you _ december or the 8th of december she recalls you asking, that we did follow — recalls you asking, that we did follow the rules at all times, didn't— follow the rules at all times, didn't tweak your mac and this is on paragraph _ didn't tweak your mac and this is on paragraph 90 of your submission. i recall— paragraph 90 of your submission. i recall more — paragraph 90 of your submission. i recall more than one person in the room _ recall more than one person in the room said. — recall more than one person in the room said, yes, of course. she said i room said, yes, of course. she said i am _ room said, yes, of course. she said i am not _ room said, yes, of course. she said i am not certain who the people were, _ i am not certain who the people were, but— i am not certain who the people were, but i'm 90% sure one was simon case the _ were, but i'm 90% sure one was simon case the cabinet secretary. the difficulty— case the cabinet secretary. the difficulty we have with that evidence is in the sworn statements from simon — evidence is in the sworn statements from simon case which i am a three not in _ from simon case which i am a three not in the _ from simon case which i am a three not in the court bundle but is on page _ not in the court bundle but is on page 33... — not in the court bundle but is on page 33... it _ not in the court bundle but is on page 33... it is on 7919792 of the general— page 33... it is on 7919792 of the general bundle, don't waste time fumbling — general bundle, don't waste time fumbling for it because i will explain _ fumbling for it because i will explain. he is asked about both of these _ explain. he is asked about both of these meetings and he makes it clear that, was— these meetings and he makes it clear that, was a _ these meetings and he makes it clear that, was a discussion on the meeting _ that, was a discussion on the

meeting of the following points and if so what _ meeting of the following points and if so what were the details of the discussion? he says, i do not believe — discussion? he says, i do not believe any of these topics were discussed — believe any of these topics were discussed at the meeting. he has asked _ discussed at the meeting. he has asked a _ discussed at the meeting. he has asked a general question on 793, are you aware _ asked a general question on 793, are you aware of— asked a general question on 793, are you aware of any other meeting at which _ you aware of any other meeting at which boris — you aware of any other meeting at which borisjohnson was president that these points were discussed, whether— that these points were discussed, whether there was any discussion of compliance — whether there was any discussion of compliance with the rose, and he says no — compliance with the rose, and he says no -- — compliance with the rose, and he says no. —— with the rules. we have difficulty— says no. —— with the rules. we have difficulty giving any credibility to the evidence we have received from sarah _ the evidence we have received from sarah dines, albeit i am sure she gave _ sarah dines, albeit i am sure she gave her— sarah dines, albeit i am sure she gave her evidence in good faith. then— gave her evidence in good faith. then there _ gave her evidence in good faith. then there is the question of your reliance~~~ — then there is the question of your reliance... have you got anything to say about _ reliance... have you got anything to say about that? i should give you the opportunity. i say about that? i should give you the opportunity-— the opportunity. i think if you are auoin to the opportunity. i think if you are going to question _ the opportunity. i think if you are going to question her— the opportunity. i think if you are going to question her evidence i the opportunity. i think if you are i going to question her evidence then you need to hear it from her. i can't comment on her evidence, i can't comment on her evidence, i can't comment on what simon case i

said. what i do remember our general affirmation from colleagues that the line i was about to use in pmqs, about the rules being followed, was supported. d0 about the rules being followed, was su orted. ,, about the rules being followed, was suuorted. , ,, ., supported. do you remember simon case saying- -- _ supported. do you remember simon case saying... frankly _ supported. do you remember simon case saying... frankly i _ supported. do you remember simon case saying... frankly i don't, - supported. do you remember simon case saying... frankly i don't, but i case saying... frankly i don't, but ou case saying... frankly i don't, but you should _ case saying... frankly i don't, but you should ask— case saying... frankly i don't, but you should ask him. _ case saying... frankly i don't, but you should ask him. i _ case saying... frankly i don't, but you should ask him. i am - case saying... frankly i don't, but you should ask him. i am not - you should ask him. i am not questioning _ you should ask him. i am not questioning the _ you should ask him. i am not questioning the veracity - you should ask him. i am not questioning the veracity of i you should ask him. i am not. questioning the veracity of the statement as she believes that because — statement as she believes that because it is quite open. she says she is— because it is quite open. she says she is only— because it is quite open. she says she is only 90% sure. i because it is quite open. she says she is only 90% sure.— she is only 90% sure. i wasn't rel inc she is only 90% sure. i wasn't relying for _ she is only 90% sure. i wasn't relying for what _ she is only 90% sure. i wasn't relying for what i _ she is only 90% sure. i wasn't relying for what i said - she is only 90% sure. i wasn't relying for what i said on - she is only 90% sure. i wasn't relying for what i said on the l relying for what i said on the cabinet secretary. i relying for what i said on the cabinet secretary.— relying for what i said on the cabinet secretary. i think it is important _ cabinet secretary. i think it is important to _ cabinet secretary. i think it is important to be _ cabinet secretary. i think it is important to be question - cabinet secretary. i think it is i important to be question sarah dines~ — important to be question sarah dines~ l— important to be question sarah dines. ~ , important to be question sarah dines. ,, , ., ., , dines. i think it is totally irrelevant. _ dines. i think it is totally irrelevant. the _ dines. i think it is totally irrelevant. the key - dines. i think it is totally irrelevant. the key pointj dines. i think it is totally - irrelevant. the key point when i said i had repeated assurances, i never claimed that i had had one of

those people giving me assurance was simon case. find those people giving me assurance was simon case. �* ., , ., simon case. and general point, you sa , i see simon case. and general point, you say. i see no _ simon case. and general point, you say, i see no great _ simon case. and general point, you say, i see no great vice _ simon case. and general point, you say, i see no great vice in _ simon case. and general point, you say, i see no great vice in that, - say, i see no great vice in that, relying — say, i see no great vice in that, relying on— say, i see no great vice in that, relying on the assurance of mr doyle. — relying on the assurance of mr doyle. an— relying on the assurance of mr doyle, an appointed political adviser, _ doyle, an appointed political adviser, not a civil servant. like sue gray- _ adviser, not a civil servant. like sue gray- we — adviser, not a civil servant. like sue gray. we are _ adviser, not a civil servant. like sue gray. we are not _ adviser, not a civil servant. like sue gray. we are not relying i adviser, not a civil servant. like sue gray. we are not relying on j adviser, not a civil servant. like - sue gray. we are not relying on sue gra in sue gray. we are not relying on sue gray in this — sue gray. we are not relying on sue gray in this inquiry. _ sue gray. we are not relying on sue gray in this inquiry. the _ sue gray. we are not relying on sue gray in this inquiry. the obligation i gray in this inquiry. the obligation not to— gray in this inquiry. the obligation not to mislead parliament is a very serious _ not to mislead parliament is a very serious obligation for any member of parliament— serious obligation for any member of parliament let alone a minister and requires _ parliament let alone a minister and requires the mp or the minister to take due — requires the mp or the minister to take due care, doesn't it? della mackie — take due care, doesn't it? della mackie s~ — take due care, doesn't it? della mackie 5~ i_ take due care, doesn't it? della mackie s. i have to say if i was accused — mackie s. i have to say if i was accused of— mackie s. i have to say if i was accused of lawbreaking had had to -ive accused of lawbreaking had had to give undertakings to the house of commons — give undertakings to the house of commons that i had not broken the law i commons that i had not broken the law i would — commons that i had not broken the law i would want the advice of a lawyer — law i would want the advice of a lawyer i— law i would want the advice of a lawyer. i would want the advice of somebody— lawyer. i would want the advice of somebody really independent and capable _ somebody really independent and capable and you didn't ask the cabinet — capable and you didn't ask the cabinet secretary. can

capable and you didn't ask the cabinet secretary.— capable and you didn't ask the cabinet secretary. can i enter it for ten seconds? _ cabinet secretary. can i enter it for ten seconds? i _ cabinet secretary. can i enter it for ten seconds? i wasn't - cabinet secretary. can i enter it i for ten seconds? i wasn't accused cabinet secretary. can i enter it - for ten seconds? i wasn't accused of lawbreaking, i was asked to explain what had gone on at a party or an eventin what had gone on at a party or an event in the media room on the 18th of december 2020. ii i event in the media room on the 18th of december 2020.— of december 2020. if i was asked to rive of december 2020. if i was asked to give undertakings _ of december 2020. if i was asked to give undertakings that _ of december 2020. if i was asked to give undertakings that rules - of december 2020. if i was asked to give undertakings that rules and - give undertakings that rules and guidance — give undertakings that rules and guidance had been followed and there was any— guidance had been followed and there was any doubt about it, the thinnest scintilla _ was any doubt about it, the thinnest scintilla of— was any doubt about it, the thinnest scintilla of doubt about it, you would — scintilla of doubt about it, you would want to copperplate your assurances by showing you had taken proper— assurances by showing you had taken proper advice. assurances by showing you had taken properadvice. i put assurances by showing you had taken proper advice. i put it to you, mr johnson, — proper advice. i put it to you, mr johnson, you did not take proper advice _ johnson, you did not take proper advice. ., , ,., , johnson, you did not take proper advice. ., , , ,y advice. can i respond first by sa inc advice. can i respond first by saying that _ advice. can i respond first by saying that if _ advice. can i respond first by saying that if you _ advice. can i respond first by saying that if you look - advice. can i respond first by saying that if you look at - advice. can i respond first by| saying that if you look at what advice. can i respond first by i saying that if you look at what i said on december the 1st, it is true as mr cartersaid, i had said on december the 1st, it is true as mr carter said, i had expected something like that question to, but actually i thought the leader of the opposition would not bother with that story. opposition would not bother with that sto . . , . opposition would not bother with that story-— it i that story. that is irrelevant. it is relevant- _ that story. that is irrelevant. it is relevant. the _ that story. that is irrelevant. it is relevant. the question - that story. that is irrelevant. it is relevant. the question is, i that story. that is irrelevant. it i is relevant. the question is, why did ou

is relevant. the question is, why did you rrot _ is relevant. the question is, why did you not take _ is relevant. the question is, why did you not take proper- is relevant. the question is, why did you not take proper advice? | did you not take proper advice? sorry. _ did you not take proper advice? sorry. the — did you not take proper advice? sorry, the answer is quite simply that over, and i have tried to describe what i felt about these events as they were happening. nobody raised with me or had any concern before i stood up on december the 1st about those events. sorry, this is complete nonsense. i mean, complete nonsense. i ask the relevant people and they were senior people, they had been working very hard, jackdaw gave me a clear account... the cabinet secretary wasn't there. and you are wrong because i did ask the cabinet secretary. i did ask the cabinet secretary. i did ask the cabinet secretary to conduct an inquiry on the 7th of december.— secretary to conduct an inquiry on the 7th of december. what about your undertakings — the 7th of december. what about your undertakings to _ the 7th of december. what about your undertakings to the _ the 7th of december. what about your undertakings to the house _ the 7th of december. what about your undertakings to the house of- undertakings to the house of commons? we can move on. can undertakings to the house of commons? we can move on. can we turn to charles walker _ commons? we can move on. can we turn to charles walker for _ commons? we can move on. can we turn to charles walker for a next _ to charles walker for a next

questions _ to charles walker for a next questions-— to charles walker for a next cuestions. , ., questions. sorry, noises coming from the back of the _ questions. sorry, noises coming from the back of the room, _ questions. sorry, noises coming from the back of the room, now _ questions. sorry, noises coming from the back of the room, now stopped. i the back of the room, now stopped. mrjohnson, — the back of the room, now stopped. mrjohnson, housekeeping matters. mr johnson, housekeeping matters. you are _ mr johnson, housekeeping matters. you are a _ mrjohnson, housekeeping matters. you are a parliamentarian and i am a parliamentarian so we do have a duty to parliament. there has been a lot of noises _ to parliament. there has been a lot of noises of— to parliament. there has been a lot of noises of hue and cry about the legitimacy— of noises of hue and cry about the legitimacy of this inquiry which i do think— legitimacy of this inquiry which i do think we need to address. you sort of— do think we need to address. you sort of alluded to it in your opening _ sort of alluded to it in your opening statement. i willjust give you an _ opening statement. i willjust give you an example of an organisation that claims— you an example of an organisation that claims to have your interests at heart. — that claims to have your interests at heart, called conservative host. in a at heart, called conservative host. in a recent — at heart, called conservative host. in a recent article published on its website, — in a recent article published on its website, on — in a recent article published on its website, on the 12th of march, it stated. — website, on the 12th of march, it stated, this was the headline, revealed — stated, this was the headline, revealed the great british stitch up of boris _ website referring him to the

privileges — website referring him to the privileges committee - website referring him to the privileges committee for - website referring him to the - privileges committee for misleading parliament many conservative mps did not oppose _ parliament many conservative mps did not oppose it and ijust want to take _ not oppose it and ijust want to take you — not oppose it and ijust want to take you back to 11 months before that on— take you back to 11 months before that on the 21st of april when your case was — that on the 21st of april when your case was referred to the privileges committee, the government minister, the right— committee, the government minister, the right honourable michael ellis, the right honourable michael ellis, the minister for the cabinet of his and paymaster general sent the following in winding up. the government recognised the seriousness of the issue under consideration. let me say that at the outset, — consideration. let me say that at the outset, the prime minister has always— the outset, the prime minister has always been clear that he is happy to face _ always been clear that he is happy to face whatever inquiries parliament sees fit to hold. and she is happy— parliament sees fit to hold. and she is happy for— parliament sees fit to hold. and she is happy for the house to decide how it wishes to — is happy for the house to decide how it wishes to proceed today and this is important because at the end of that, _ is important because at the end of that, the _ is important because at the end of that, the motion was put in there

was no _ that, the motion was put in there was no vote. and that is a matter of fact _ was no vote. and that is a matter of fact if— was no vote. and that is a matter of fact. if indeed there was even a cry of objection, can you create that was the — of objection, can you create that was the case?— of objection, can you create that was the case? , _, ., , .,, was the case? yes i encourage people to su ort was the case? yes i encourage people to support its- — was the case? yes i encourage people to support its- so _ was the case? yes i encourage people to support its. so it's _ was the case? yes i encourage people to support its. so it's absolutely - to support its. so it's absolutely misleading _ to support its. so it's absolutely misleading for _ to support its. so it's absolutely misleading for them _ to support its. so it's absolutely misleading for them to - to support its. so it's absolutely misleading for them to see - to support its. so it's absolutely| misleading for them to see many conservative mps did not oppose it. not a _ conservative mps did not oppose it. not a single conservative mp a. yes, that is completely _ not a single conservative mp a. yes, that is completely correct. _ not a single conservative mp a. yes, that is completely correct. that - not a single conservative mp a. yes, that is completely correct. that is i that is completely correct. that is nood, that is completely correct. that is good. we're _ that is completely correct. that is good, we're making _ that is completely correct. that is good, we're making progress. - that is completely correct. that is good, we're making progress. in| that is completely correct. that is - good, we're making progress. in your opening _ good, we're making progress. in your opening statement, you refer to the chaii’, _ opening statement, you refer to the chair. the _ opening statement, you refer to the chair, the appointment of the chair, you suggested to some extent that you suggested to some extent that you had _ you suggested to some extent that you had concerns but you are willing to set _ you had concerns but you are willing to set those — you had concerns but you are willing to set those concerns aside on the 14th of— to set those concerns aside on the 14th ofjune, 2022, the right honourable lady, there was a motion

to added _ honourable lady, there was a motion to added to — honourable lady, there was a motion to added to the committee on the 14th of— to added to the committee on the 14th ofjune 2022. and it went through— 14th ofjune 2022. and it went through at the end of a debate on the privatisation of channel 4 and the privatisation of channel 4 and the recall— the privatisation of channel 4 and the recall explores the chamber and when _ the recall explores the chamber and when the _ the recall explores the chamber and when the motions put right honourable lady's name was mentioned, there is not a single cry of objection. — mentioned, there is not a single cry of objection, not even from a mouse scuffling _ of objection, not even from a mouse scuffling across the floor, not a single — scuffling across the floor, not a single objection on the 14th of june, — single objection on the 14th of june, can _ single objection on the 14th of june, can you accept that as well? yes~ _ june, can you accept that as well? yes if— june, can you accept that as well? yes. , , ., ,., yes. if they were lying about the committee _ yes. if they were lying about the committee of — yes. if they were lying about the committee of the _ yes. if they were lying about the committee of the legitimacy - yes. if they were lying about the committee of the legitimacy of i yes. if they were lying about the l committee of the legitimacy of the chair. _ committee of the legitimacy of the chair, someone might've shouted obiect~ _ chair, someone might've shouted ob'ect. . , chair, someone might've shouted ob'ect. ., , _, chair, someone might've shouted ob'ect. ., , object. can i 'ust come back quickly on this object. can ijust come back quickly on this point- _ object. can ijust come back quickly on this point. my _ object. can ijust come back quickly on this point. my anxiety _ object. can ijust come back quickly on this point. my anxiety is - object. can ijust come back quickly on this point. my anxiety is about i on this point. my anxiety is about fairness are contained in my submission and i have said what i have to say about previous remarks of the chair and observe it would have to say about my belief in the

ability of this committee which is very important to be impartial. which was made before the appointment on the 14th. and which was made before the appointment on the 14th. and i come before ou appointment on the 14th. and i come before you in — appointment on the 14th. and i come before you in full _ appointment on the 14th. and i come before you in full confidence - appointment on the 14th. and i come before you in full confidence that - before you in full confidence that you will be impartial and look at the evidence and you will conclude that they did not wittingly or recklessly mislead parliament and there's not a shred of evidence to suggest that i did and i hope you will exonerate me and i think you should exonerate me of any contempt whatsoever stop receiving your evidence .it is . it is well put together bundle and i 'ust feel . it is well put together bundle and liust feel that _ . it is well put together bundle and i just feel that the _ . it is well put together bundle and i just feel that the way _ . it is well put together bundle and i just feel that the way things - . it is well put together bundle and i just feel that the way things have | ijust feel that the way things have been _ ijust feel that the way things have been conducted is that your supporters, not seeing you, your supporters— supporters, not seeing you, your supporters and wanted both ways. they're _ supporters and wanted both ways. they're hoping the evidence you give

them _ they're hoping the evidence you give them 52_ they're hoping the evidence you give them 52 pages will exonerate you, and give _ them 52 pages will exonerate you, and give you a clean bill of health and give you a clean bill of health and that— and give you a clean bill of health and that is— and give you a clean bill of health and that is for your desired outcome this but— and that is for your desired outcome this butiust — and that is for your desired outcome this butjust in case that does not happen, — this butjust in case that does not happen, there has been a concerted effort _ happen, there has been a concerted effort to— happen, there has been a concerted effort to delegitimize the committee to call— effort to delegitimize the committee to call us— effort to delegitimize the committee to call us a kangaroo court, if you characterise — to call us a kangaroo court, if you characterise status as a kangaroo court? ., .., characterise status as a kangaroo court? ., . ., , , characterise status as a kangaroo court? ., ,y , characterise status as a kangaroo court? ., ,y i, , . court? you can tell by my presence this afternoon _ court? you can tell by my presence this afternoon and _ court? you can tell by my presence this afternoon and the _ court? you can tell by my presence this afternoon and the seriousness| this afternoon and the seriousness with which i taking your questions and by my attempts to answer in detail the points you have put to me how seriously i take you and your committee. the respect i have for this institutional parliament for better or worse, the issues of fairness that i raise my submission, this is the body that the sides under standards and privileges. this is the committee that does it. there's no other way of doing it and thatis there's no other way of doing it and that is how i have come here and respect for the committee respect for parliament because i do not

believe that you can conceivably find me guilty of willingly misleading parliament on the basis of the evidence that you have assembled. fits of the evidence that you have assembled.— of the evidence that you have assembled. a ., ., ., ., of the evidence that you have assembled. ., ., ., ., assembled. as a parliamentarian, do ou recret assembled. as a parliamentarian, do you regret that _ assembled. as a parliamentarian, do you regret that collects _ assembled. as a parliamentarian, do you regret that collects of _ assembled. as a parliamentarian, do you regret that collects of ours - you regret that collects of ours have _ you regret that collects of ours have called the privileges committee a kangaroo court? i have called the privileges committee a kangaroo court?— a kangaroo court? i don't want an bod a kangaroo court? i don't want anybody to _ a kangaroo court? i don't want anybody to cause _ a kangaroo court? i don't want anybody to cause any - a kangaroo court? i don't want i anybody to cause any colleague, there should be no intimidation and no attempt to bully any colleague in any manner whatsoever. my my questions of fairness are well documented in my submission and i deprecate the term and i don't want to repeat it but i think the people want tojudge for to repeat it but i think the people want to judge for themselves on the

basis of the evidence that you produced the fairness of this committee. i have every confidence that you can be fair. i committee. i have every confidence that you can be fair.— that you can be fair. i am nearly done. that you can be fair. i am nearly done- may _ that you can be fair. i am nearly done. may interject? _ that you can be fair. i am nearly done. may interject? and - that you can be fair. i am nearly done. may interject? and you i that you can be fair. i am nearly - done. may interject? and you accept done. may inter'ect? and you accept that this done. may interject? and you accept that this committee _ done. may interject? and you accept that this committee can _ done. may interject? and you accept that this committee can be - done. may interject? and you accept that this committee can be fair- that this committee can be fair and wrong _ that this committee can be fair and wrong rather— that this committee can be fair and wrong rather than _ that this committee can be fair and wrong rather than being _ that this committee can be fair and wrong rather than being unfair- wrong rather than being unfair and which _ wrong rather than being unfair and which aren't? _ wrong rather than being unfair and which aren't? l— wrong rather than being unfair and which aren't?— which aren't? i certainly think that, let which aren't? i certainly think that. let me _ which aren't? i certainly think that, let me put _ which aren't? i certainly think that, let me put it _ which aren't? i certainly think that, let me put it this - which aren't? i certainly think that, let me put it this way, i which aren't? i certainly think i that, let me put it this way, this committee were to find me in contempt of parliament, having come and done something so utterly insane and done something so utterly insane and contrary to my principles and wittingly lie, ifeel and contrary to my principles and wittingly lie, i feel that would and contrary to my principles and wittingly lie, ifeel that would not only be unfair, i think it would be wrong. only be unfair, i think it would be wronu. �* . , ., only be unfair, i think it would be wronu. . .., , wrong. but which you characterise it as a witch or— wrong. but which you characterise it as a witch or a _ wrong. but which you characterise it as a witch or a kangaroo _ wrong. but which you characterise it as a witch or a kangaroo court? i i as a witch or a kangaroo court? i

wait as a witch or a kangaroo court? wait to see how you proceed as a witch or a kangaroo court?“ wait to see how you proceed with as a witch or a kangaroo court?|- wait to see how you proceed with the evidence that you have and i do not wish to, i will study your conclusions from the evidence. i deprecate the terms that you use and i don't want to see good colleagues seen under pressure. and if you study this impartially, you come to the conclusion that have given. on the 25th of may, you refer to this as the building that is square across five floors excluding the flats, hundreds of entitled to work there. ., �* , ., ,, flats, hundreds of entitled to work there. ., �* , .«r ., there. you'll be taken back to the states and _ there. you'll be taken back to the states and on _ there. you'll be taken back to the states and on the _ there. you'll be taken back to the states and on the 1st _ there. you'll be taken back to the states and on the 1st of— there. you'll be taken back to the i states and on the 1st of december, you'll— states and on the 1st of december, you'll be _ states and on the 1st of december, you'll be well aware that the leader of the _ you'll be well aware that the leader of the opposition or guidance was followed — of the opposition or guidance was followed completely in number ten and on _ followed completely in number ten and on the 8th of december, you said

that i_ and on the 8th of december, you said that i had _ and on the 8th of december, you said that i had been repeatedly assured that i had been repeatedly assured that the _ that i had been repeatedly assured that the rules are not broken and rattled _ that the rules are not broken and rattled quickly on the 8th of december to kathleen west and the 14th of— december to kathleen west and the 14th of this, whatever happens, the guidance _ 14th of this, whatever happens, the guidance was followed in the rules are followed at all times. he received _ are followed at all times. he received assurances from a number of people _ received assurances from a number of people and _ received assurances from a number of people and a — received assurances from a number of people and a question i have is how on earth _ people and a question i have is how on earth would they have known that rules are _ on earth would they have known that rules are being followed and it's impossible because you didn't have cameras _ impossible because you didn't have cameras in — impossible because you didn't have cameras in every room. | impossible because you didn't have cameras in every room. i had impossible because you didn't have cameras in every room.— cameras in every room. i had their airs of cameras in every room. i had their pairs of eyes- _ cameras in every room. i had their pairs of eyes. you _ cameras in every room. i had their pairs of eyes. you are _ cameras in every room. i had their pairs of eyes. you are right, i i cameras in every room. i had their pairs of eyes. you are right, i did i pairs of eyes. you are right, i did not have omniscience of what was going on in the building and i had to rely on what people told me. but, what they had to say it was extremely valuable in their extremely valuable in their extremely reputable people. and they give a description of that event and

to get back to the point of the chair was raising, initially it was one of them thousand or consideration and under discussion. they took my cue from them —— under consideration stop will accept you worked incredibly hard in your official state as well. accept that you are hospitalised. irate official state as well. accept that you are hospitalised.— you are hospitalised. we got the vaccines out _ you are hospitalised. we got the vaccines out and _ you are hospitalised. we got the vaccines out and supposing i you are hospitalised. we got the vaccines out and supposing what you are hospitalised. we got the l vaccines out and supposing what i was left _ vaccines out and supposing what i was left with was what hinders your case is _ was left with was what hinders your case is when you look at hundred 26 fixed penalty notices handed out to number— fixed penalty notices handed out to number ten, fixed penalty notices handed out to numberten, it is fixed penalty notices handed out to number ten, it is clear that jack doyle. — number ten, it is clear that jack doyle. lee _ number ten, it is clear that jack doyle, lee kane, james, all of them really— doyle, lee kane, james, all of them really had _ doyle, lee kane, james, all of them really had no idea what was going on because _ really had no idea what was going on because if— really had no idea what was going on because if they had, it is highly unlikely— because if they had, it is highly unlikely for the penalty notice to be handed out. and unlikely for the penalty notice to be handed out.— unlikely for the penalty notice to be handed out. and you put your finer on be handed out. and you put your finger on the _ be handed out. and you put your finger on the crucial—

be handed out. and you put your finger on the crucial point i be handed out. and you put your finger on the crucial point and i be handed out. and you put your finger on the crucial point and if| finger on the crucial point and if the committee thinks that it must've known to get back to the conversation to be fat, and if it were obvious to me, that would've been obvious to those of the single distinguished people. and i was very shocked to get my own fp distinguished people. and i was very shocked to get my own ff and and amazed by the number of others. what happened, we don't want to go over the give and reinvestigate by the good app and basically was that on a few evenings, having to go on for too long. and i cannot apologise for that enough but we are where we are. i do not wish to try your patience because — i do not wish to try your patience because you have been here a long time _ because you have been here a long time if— because you have been here a long time if not — because you have been here a long time. if not deliberate, if not deliberate, is it possible that it was reckless and slightly reckless not to _ was reckless and slightly reckless not to have caveats to his

statements to the house to the best of my— statements to the house to the best of my knowledge and i really do hope it was— of my knowledge and i really do hope it was the _ of my knowledge and i really do hope it was the certainty of the statements in this impossible to accept _ statements in this impossible to accept that actually, there was a degree _ accept that actually, there was a degree of— accept that actually, there was a degree of recklessness? no, nobody wants to be — degree of recklessness? no, nobody wants to be in _ degree of recklessness? no, nobody wants to be in the _ degree of recklessness? no, nobody wants to be in the position _ degree of recklessness? no, nobody wants to be in the position with i wants to be in the position with their misleading as saying something to the house of commons that is going to turn out not to be true, especially something is readily falsifiable as the guidance was followed completely. it was my belief that that was the case. i have apologised and will continue to apologise for unintentionally misleading the house and if the committee understands that. but it was not deliberate. it is based on my genuine understanding and belief about what we're doing what we have been doing for a long time i think your point is now the most important

ones in this business and i think it was obvious to me that there were problems and it was not obvious to the other senior people that you described. i the other senior people that you described. , ., ., ., , described. i 'ust want to finally ex - lore described. i 'ust want to finally explore the — described. i just want to finally explore the question _ described. i just want to finally explore the question of- described. i just want to finally i explore the question of correcting the record — explore the question of correcting the record issue _ explore the question of correcting the record issue because - explore the question of correcting the record issue because there's i the record issue because there's been _ the record issue because there's been a _ the record issue because there's been a lot— the record issue because there's been a lot of— the record issue because there's been a lot of discussion - the record issue because there's been a lot of discussion about i the record issue because there's i been a lot of discussion about you having corrected _ been a lot of discussion about you having corrected the _ been a lot of discussion about you having corrected the record - been a lot of discussion about you having corrected the record i- been a lot of discussion about you having corrected the record ijustl having corrected the record ijust want _ having corrected the record ijust want to— having corrected the record ijust want to explore _ having corrected the record ijust want to explore one _ having corrected the record ijust want to explore one aspect - having corrected the record ijust want to explore one aspect of. having corrected the record ijusti want to explore one aspect of that and put _ want to explore one aspect of that and put this— want to explore one aspect of that and put this to _ want to explore one aspect of that and put this to you. _ want to explore one aspect of that and put this to you. on _ want to explore one aspect of that and put this to you. on the - want to explore one aspect of that and put this to you. on the 25th i want to explore one aspect of thatj and put this to you. on the 25th of may 2022, — and put this to you. on the 25th of may 2022, you _ and put this to you. on the 25th of may 2022, you said that _ and put this to you. on the 25th of may 2022, you said that not - and put this to you. on the 25th of may 2022, you said that not be i may 2022, you said that not be deceived — may 2022, you said that not be deceived on the _ may 2022, you said that not be deceived on the record - may 2022, you said that not be deceived on the record now- may 2022, you said that not be| deceived on the record now and may 2022, you said that not be i deceived on the record now and in all sincerity — deceived on the record now and in all sincerity come _ deceived on the record now and in all sincerity come the _ deceived on the record now and in all sincerity come the rules - deceived on the record now and in all sincerity come the rules and i all sincerity come the rules and guidance — all sincerity come the rules and guidance of— all sincerity come the rules and guidance of been _ all sincerity come the rules and guidance of been followed - all sincerity come the rules and guidance of been followed and i all sincerity come the rules and. guidance of been followed and is what _ guidance of been followed and is what i _ guidance of been followed and is what i believed _ guidance of been followed and is what i believed to _ guidance of been followed and is what i believed to be _ guidance of been followed and is what i believed to be true. - guidance of been followed and is what i believed to be true. and i guidance of been followed and is i what i believed to be true. and you said that _ what i believed to be true. and you said that to— what i believed to be true. and you said that to us _ what i believed to be true. and you said that to us this _ what i believed to be true. and you said that to us this afternoon - what i believed to be true. and you said that to us this afternoon and l said that to us this afternoon and then— said that to us this afternoon and then go— said that to us this afternoon and then go on— said that to us this afternoon and then go on to _ said that to us this afternoon and then go on to say— said that to us this afternoon and then go on to say that _ said that to us this afternoon and then go on to say that it - said that to us this afternoon and then go on to say that it was - then go on to say that it was certainty— then go on to say that it was certainly the _ then go on to say that it was certainly the case _ then go on to say that it was certainly the case that - then go on to say that it was certainly the case that when| then go on to say that it was| certainly the case that when i then go on to say that it was - certainly the case that when i was present— certainly the case that when i was present to — certainly the case that when i was

present to which _ certainly the case that when i was present to which staff— certainly the case that when i was present to which staff farewell, . present to which staff farewell, what _ present to which staff farewell, what you — present to which staff farewell, what you said _ present to which staff farewell, what you said to _ present to which staff farewell, what you said to the _ present to which staff farewell, what you said to the house - present to which staff farewell, what you said to the house by i present to which staff farewell, i what you said to the house by way present to which staff farewell, - what you said to the house by way of a purported — what you said to the house by way of a purported correction— what you said to the house by way of a purported correction was _ what you said to the house by way of a purported correction was it - what you said to the house by way of a purported correction was it was - a purported correction was it was certainty— a purported correction was it was certainty the _ a purported correction was it was certainly the case _ a purported correction was it was certainly the case when - a purported correction was it was certainly the case when you - a purported correction was it was certainly the case when you were present _ certainly the case when you were present at — certainly the case when you were present at gatherings _ certainly the case when you were present at gatherings to - certainly the case when you were present at gatherings to which i certainly the case when you were i present at gatherings to which staff fareweit, _ present at gatherings to which staff fareweit, that— present at gatherings to which staff farewell, that the _ present at gatherings to which staff farewell, that the guidance - present at gatherings to which staff farewell, that the guidance had - present at gatherings to which staffi farewell, that the guidance had been followed _ farewell, that the guidance had been followed at _ farewell, that the guidance had been followed at all — farewell, that the guidance had been followed at all times. _ farewell, that the guidance had been followed at all times. do _ farewell, that the guidance had been followed at all times. do you - farewell, that the guidance had been followed at all times. do you want i followed at all times. do you want to reassert — followed at all times. do you want to reassert that _ followed at all times. do you want to reassert that or— followed at all times. do you want to reassert that or do _ followed at all times. do you want to reassert that or do you - followed at all times. do you want to reassert that or do you want. followed at all times. do you want to reassert that or do you want to| to reassert that or do you want to correct _ to reassert that or do you want to correct the — to reassert that or do you want to correct the record _ to reassert that or do you want to correct the record and _ to reassert that or do you want to l correct the record and acknowledge here that _ correct the record and acknowledge here that actually, _ correct the record and acknowledge here that actually, the _ correct the record and acknowledge here that actually, the guidance - correct the record and acknowledge i here that actually, the guidance was not followed — here that actually, the guidance was not followed at _ here that actually, the guidance was not followed at all _ here that actually, the guidance was not followed at all times _ here that actually, the guidance was not followed at all times just - here that actually, the guidance was not followed at all times just so - not followed at all times just so we're _ not followed at all times just so were clear— not followed at all times just so we're clear because _ not followed at all times just so we're clear because you - not followed at all times just so we're clear because you can - not followed at all times just so - we're clear because you can correct the record _ we're clear because you can correct the record to — we're clear because you can correct the record to this _ we're clear because you can correct the record to this committee. - we're clear because you can correct the record to this committee. what i want to say — the record to this committee. what i want to say is _ the record to this committee. what i want to say is that _ the record to this committee. what i want to say is that the _ the record to this committee. what i want to say is that the rules - the record to this committee. what i want to say is that the rules are - want to say is that the rules are followed and. i want to say is that the rules are followed and.— want to say is that the rules are followed and. . . ,~' . h, followed and. i am asking about the uuidance. followed and. i am asking about the guidance- and _ followed and. i am asking about the guidance. and the _ followed and. i am asking about the guidance. and the statement - followed and. i am asking about the guidance. and the statement under| guidance. and the statement under the guidance _ guidance. and the statement under the guidance being _ guidance. and the statement under the guidance being followed - guidance. and the statement under the guidance being followed and . guidance. and the statement under the guidance being followed and it| the guidance being followed and it remains my belief from the time i

was there, when i was looking at these events, i thought they were within the guidance given what i knew about what we're trying to do and given what knew about the limitations we faced. taste and given what knew about the limitations we faced.— and given what knew about the limitations we faced. we are asking which a belief— limitations we faced. we are asking which a belief is _ limitations we faced. we are asking which a belief is now. _ limitations we faced. we are asking which a belief is now. i _ limitations we faced. we are asking which a belief is now. i do - limitations we faced. we are asking which a belief is now. i do not - limitations we faced. we are asking which a belief is now. i do not want| which a belief is now. i do not want to send from _ which a belief is now. i do not want to send from what _ which a belief is now. i do not want to send from what it _ which a belief is now. i do not want to send from what it said _ which a belief is now. i do not want to send from what it said on - which a belief is now. i do not want to send from what it said on may i which a belief is now. i do not want. to send from what it said on may the 25th. , ., , ., , 25th. this was five months after this was raised. _ 25th. this was five months after this was raised. and _ 25th. this was five months after this was raised. and yet - 25th. this was five months after this was raised. and yet time i 25th. this was five months after this was raised. and yet time to j this was raised. and yet time to consider— this was raised. and yet time to consider att— this was raised. and yet time to consider all the _ this was raised. and yet time to consider all the issues - this was raised. and yet time to consider all the issues that - this was raised. and yet time to| consider all the issues that were being raised _ consider all the issues that were being raised and _ consider all the issues that were being raised and even— consider all the issues that were being raised and even for- consider all the issues that were being raised and even for the . consider all the issues that were l being raised and even for the time has elapsed — being raised and even for the time has elapsed to _ being raised and even for the time has elapsed to where _ being raised and even for the time has elapsed to where we - being raised and even for the time has elapsed to where we are - being raised and even for the time has elapsed to where we are nowi has elapsed to where we are now and there's— has elapsed to where we are now and there's a _ has elapsed to where we are now and there's a tot — has elapsed to where we are now and there's a tot of— has elapsed to where we are now and there's a lot of evidence _ has elapsed to where we are now and there's a lot of evidence that's - there's a lot of evidence that's spring — there's a lot of evidence that's spring produce _ there's a lot of evidence that's spring produce the _ there's a lot of evidence that's spring produce the event - there's a lot of evidence that's spring produce the event the i spring produce the event the opportunity— spring produce the event the opportunity to— spring produce the event the opportunity to consider. - spring produce the event the opportunity to consider. do i spring produce the event the . opportunity to consider. do you still want — opportunity to consider. do you still want to _ opportunity to consider. do you still want to assert _ opportunity to consider. do you still want to assert that - opportunity to consider. do you still want to assert that was - still want to assert that was certainty— still want to assert that was certainly the _ still want to assert that was certainly the case _ still want to assert that was certainly the case when - still want to assert that was certainly the case when youj still want to assert that was - certainly the case when you were present _ certainly the case when you were present at — certainly the case when you were present at gatherings _ certainly the case when you were present at gatherings to - certainly the case when you were present at gatherings to which i certainly the case when you were i present at gatherings to which staff fareweii _ present at gatherings to which staff fareweii that — present at gatherings to which staff farewell that the _ present at gatherings to which staff farewell that the guidance - present at gatherings to which staff farewell that the guidance had - present at gatherings to which staff| farewell that the guidance had been followed _ farewell that the guidance had been followed at — farewell that the guidance had been followed at all— farewell that the guidance had been followed at all times? _ farewell that the guidance had been followed at all times? yes, - farewell that the guidance had been followed at all times?—

followed at all times? yes, i do. i see no reason _ followed at all times? yes, i do. i see no reason to _ followed at all times? yes, i do. i see no reason to withdraw- followed at all times? yes, i do. i see no reason to withdraw what . followed at all times? yes, i do. i see no reason to withdraw what i | see no reason to withdraw what i said on the 25th and at that stage, i was in possession of the committee in the world was in possession of all material that we've looked at today and my view remains the guidance for social distancing not to be carried out with rigid precision and circumstances in which we were operating, provided you had mitigations. that was my stop when were sticking with that are there any final points that you

have _ are there any final points that you have not— are there any final points that you have not already _ are there any final points that you have not already mentioned, - are there any final points that you have not already mentioned, noti are there any final points that you - have not already mentioned, not ones that you _ have not already mentioned, not ones that you have — have not already mentioned, not ones that you have mentioned _ have not already mentioned, not ones that you have mentioned but - have not already mentioned, not ones that you have mentioned but ones - that you have mentioned but ones that you have mentioned but ones that you _ that you have mentioned but ones that you have _ that you have mentioned but ones that you have mentioned - that you have mentioned but ones that you have mentioned that - that you have mentioned but ones| that you have mentioned that have not come _ that you have mentioned that have not come up — that you have mentioned that have not come up in— that you have mentioned that have not come up in our— that you have mentioned that have not come up in our questions - that you have mentioned that have not come up in our questions and i that you have mentioned that have l not come up in our questions and we would _ not come up in our questions and we would like _ not come up in our questions and we would like to — not come up in our questions and we would like to give _ not come up in our questions and we would like to give you _ not come up in our questions and we would like to give you the _ would like to give you the opportunity _ would like to give you the opportunity. i— would like to give you the opportunity-— would like to give you the opportunity. would like to give you the o- ortuni . . ., opportunity. i much en'oyed our discussion. * opportunity. i much en'oyed our discussion. ithink_ opportunity. i much en'oyed our discussion. i think it _ opportunity. i much enjoyed our discussion. i think it has - opportunity. i much enjoyed our discussion. i think it has been . opportunity. i much enjoyed our discussion. i think it has been a | discussion. i think it has been a useful discussion and it is clear to the community was in my heart and mind on december the ist and december the 8th of 2021. the committee _ december the 8th of 2021. the committee will _ december the 8th of 2021. the committee will consider the evidence alon- committee will consider the evidence along with _ committee will consider the evidence along with the — committee will consider the evidence along with the other— committee will consider the evidence along with the other evidence - committee will consider the evidence along with the other evidence we - along with the other evidence we have _ along with the other evidence we have received _ along with the other evidence we have received in— along with the other evidence we have received in our— along with the other evidence we l have received in our requirements. you nray— have received in our requirements. you ntay take — have received in our requirements. you may take more _ have received in our requirements. you may take more in _ have received in our requirements. you may take more in the - have received in our requirements. you may take more in the end - have received in our requirements. you may take more in the end of. have received in our requirements. i you may take more in the end of our inguiries _ you may take more in the end of our inquiries before _ you may take more in the end of our inquiries before he _ you may take more in the end of our inquiries before he reached - you may take more in the end of our inquiries before he reached the - inquiries before he reached the finat— inquiries before he reached the final conclusions— inquiries before he reached the final conclusions if— inquiries before he reached the final conclusions if we - inquiries before he reached the final conclusions if we deem i inquiries before he reached the i final conclusions if we deem that necessary— final conclusions if we deem that necessary but _ final conclusions if we deem that necessary but for— final conclusions if we deem that necessary but for now, _ final conclusions if we deem that necessary but for now, that - necessary but for now, that conciudes _ necessary but for now, that conciudes a _ necessary but for now, that concludes a session - necessary but for now, that concludes a session today. i necessary but for now, that - concludes a session today. order. order _

i was of the evidence from the former prime minister borisjohnson from the privileges committee of the house of commons and we can get some reaction to what he was talking about there in his defence and his insistence that he did not mislead the commons, did not lie to the comments the gatherings and downing street hadn't broken covid—i9 rules and guidance and let'sjust run street hadn't broken covid—i9 rules and guidance and let's just run you through some the key points. boris johnson denied applying the parliament and the testimony and they will consider what deliberately mislead mps and the parties. and said under oath, statements they had made in the comments on this issue were based on what he honestly

believed mrjohnson was subsequently find by police for breaking his own rules on his own government put in place. he acknowledges seem to parliament pretty soon it was inadvertent. he is not deliberately misleading parliament and he apologise for that. if the committee does find that he recklessly or intentionally misled parliament and he could recommend sanctions and it can be temporarily suspended from the house of commons. and at to he sounded quite irritated with the questions he was getting up at the end, he considered to be a useful exercise let's have a listen to his opening statement to the privileges committee this afternoon. there were a number of — committee this afternoon. there were a number of days _ committee this afternoon. there were a number of days over _ committee this afternoon. there were a number of days over 20 _ committee this afternoon. there were a number of days over 20 months - a number of days over 20 months where gatherings took place in downing street that went past the point they could be said to be necessary for work purposes. that was wrong and i bitterly regretted and they understand public anger and i continue to apologise for what

happened on my watch and i take full responsibility. and the purpose of this inquiry is not to reopen party gate. and discover whether or not i like to parliament and wittingly this that colleagues and what i knew and believed about those gatherings when i set the rules in the guidance had been followed and number ten. i am here to say to you, hand on heart, that i did not lie to the house and with the statements were made, they were made in good faith and on the basis of what i honestly knew and believed at the time. i was completely confident that you would find nothing to show or believe anything else. and indeed, you have not, i was confident, not because there's been some kind of cover—up bus confident because i knew that is what i believe. and that is why i

said it. to understand why i believed it, you have to have a time before the sucre report, before the police investigation, back to a time where, as the evidence before the committee shows, there was a near universal belief in number ten of the rules and guidance were being complied with. that is the general belief that it's been uncovered by your evidence it was that belief that governed what i said in the house. it is soon as it was clear that i was wrong and as soon as the sucre investigation and the police investigation of concluded, i came to the house and i corrected the record as i promised i would. throughout the afternoon, he struck a pretty defiant tone and stressed that he did not recklessly mislead

the house of commons. it will corrected the record and i corrected the record on the day of sucre's final report and after the completion of the police investigation. {lit completion of the police investigation.— completion of the police investiuation. . ., j , investigation. of the community's view is that _ investigation. of the community's view is that it _ investigation. of the community's view is that it should've _ investigation. of the community's view is that it should've come - investigation. of the community's view is that it should've come to l view is that it should've come to the house and provided an inevitably incomplete account while the government or police investigation was going on, including evidence they had not intended, i fundamentally disagree. at all times, i was entirely transparent with the house and it was clear that i did not intend to comment on any of the financial matters and to the investigation and keeping the house regularly updated and as soon as it was complete, i provided the full correction of my honest but inadvertently reading statement. and i apologise for inadvertently

misleading the south dissected recklessly is completely untrue as the evidence shows. find recklessly is completely untrue as the evidence shows.— the evidence shows. and other evidence of— the evidence shows. and other evidence of the _ the evidence shows. and other evidence of the testimony - the evidence shows. and otherl evidence of the testimony there the evidence shows. and other. evidence of the testimony there in the stock to a political correspondent and what did she make of this, he sounded pretty irritated with these proceedings. boris johnson's _ with these proceedings. boris johnson's frustrations - with these proceedings. boris johnson's frustrations crew i with these proceedings. err" s johnson's frustrations crew with the line of questioning. he said it would be utterly insane to think that he deliberately lied when he made the statements to parliament and it started off quite measured and it started off quite measured and after repeated questioning, it was more than three hours in the committee session with little break and a lot to digest. and i think on the points he made in his defence, he talked a lot about the building

of number ten and the circumstances with which they were working in that it was very difficult at all times to follow social distancing rules he talked a lot about the other mitigation rules are put in place in testing and screening, zoom meetings as evidence to say look, they were taking things seriously and it was the case that there were no guidelines number ten at the time. he was questions about various weaving dues where there had been impromptu celebrations for people who had left the team in number ten and some of which he was present at the started talking about the fact that there was a necessary thing to do because he wants to boost morale in say a few words that he attended and that was quite an interesting angle he took and he is trying to friend those events is necessary for work purposes. he was the question quite a lot about the assurances that she had received there were being exposed and pressing points

about why she relied on political advisers for those assurances and whether those assurances —— he and thatis whether those assurances —— he and that is what i think the exchange is most heated at the beginning of the beginning of his opening statement he certainly pointed the finger at the committee itself and the remit of the committee talking about his fears that the committee are we jump to conclusions before the taking all the evidence the fact that they were straying into territory that they should not according to the remit. i like to digest but certainly, the question i'm left with is that boris johnson really tried to put up a fight to defend himself and to hang on to all of those very detailed points. he tried to say to the committee that he was taking their questioning seriously and he was saying that he does not regard this as a kangaroo court and supporters and label the committee and he was trying to get very detailed responses to each and every

questions but remember, he was speaking very carefully because he took an oath and anything that he has said and found out not to be true, he could be at risk of perjury. true, he could be at risk of er'u . �* true, he could be at risk of perjury-— true, he could be at risk of er'u _ r , .,~' ,., true, he could be at risk of er'u .�* , , perjury. and the stakes are pretty hiuh for perjury. and the stakes are pretty high for him _ perjury. and the stakes are pretty high for him politically. _ perjury. and the stakes are pretty high for him politically. this - perjury. and the stakes are pretty high for him politically. this is - high for him politically. this is the man was still has political ambitions to return to number 10 downing street but the consequences, if this goes badly for him to be politically pretty dire. reflecting on the bigger— politically pretty dire. reflecting on the bigger picture, _ politically pretty dire. reflecting on the bigger picture, to - politically pretty dire. reflecting on the bigger picture, to some l on the bigger picture, to some extent, this is a committee hearing ever used covering committee hearings here in parliament and the light of this was about parliamentary procedure and the and the question the community is seeking is whether or not boris johnson misled parliament and did he do so deliberately and actually, was he in contempt of parliament and that puts a technical term at its core but as you say, the consequences of the committee decision is crucial for boris

johnson's future. it's the final chapter and party gate inquiry and the metropolitan police is own investigation into and there was the senior civil servant report and details of all the events that had taken place and this is now parliamentary angle to the whole episode and this is now the final chance of borisjohnson to make this case and try to convince the committee and the public that he was not lying to parliament the chance to be trusted because all those questions about trust and lives were central to borisjohnson's downfall wanted to go straight significant that she was in parliament for hours just as there was another separate vote on something he is intimately connected with such as brexit and he is one of the people against rishi sunak�*s dealfor brexit is one of the people against rishi sunak�*s deal for brexit trading arrangements for northern ireland

and the very significant day for borisjohnson in the sense that he is fighting for his political career. �* ,., .., career. are political correspondent rob watson _ career. are political correspondent rob watson and _ career. are political correspondent rob watson and i _ career. are political correspondent rob watson and i was _ career. are political correspondent rob watson and i was a _ career. are political correspondent rob watson and i was a senior - rob watson and i was a senior researcher at the institute for government and first of all, let's pick up a monthly layla was saying, this is a man fighting for his political life. i this is a man fighting for his political life.— political life. i agree with everything _ political life. i agree with everything that _ political life. i agree with everything that layla - political life. i agree with | everything that layla said political life. i agree with - everything that layla said and how she set it out but i think there is a chance that the testimony will absolutely change nothing in terms of public opinion. what we mean by thatis of public opinion. what we mean by that is the polling suggests that there was a fuss about nothing and that this was a difficultjob he did in difficult circumstances and did as well as he could not think any of us would've changed our minds and the will of the day, there is clearly one rule for the rulers and another for the ruled, clearly one rule for the rulers and anotherfor the ruled, how can clearly one rule for the rulers and another for the ruled, how can they be having these functions and how can he think this was reasonable when everybody else was to be two

metres distance is, i don't think they will change their minds but they will change their minds but they are not the ones who matter. it's the committee of mps will have to reach a judgment as to whether the parliament has been intentionally misled or not. what they're going to come up with later on i think highlights the concerns about the extent to which they rely on political advisers rather than broader reassurances but seems to me that i don't think public opinion is going to change very much and in a positive and negative way for boris johnson and no doubt continue to be a significant minority of the people in this country tend to take the view that boris johnson, in this country tend to take the view that borisjohnson, and the significant majority who think you should not be coming back to power are anywhere near it. how high is the bard... in the house of commons? how high is the bard. .. in the house of commons?—

how high is the bard... in the house of commons? there are a few things the need of commons? there are a few things they need to — of commons? there are a few things they need to be _ of commons? there are a few things they need to be thinking _ of commons? there are a few things they need to be thinking about. - of commons? there are a few things they need to be thinking about. the | they need to be thinking about. the first thing _ they need to be thinking about. the first thing is whetherjohnson missed — first thing is whetherjohnson missed what led parliament, and if so, was _ missed what led parliament, and if so, was it— missed what led parliament, and if so, was it intentional. that will shape — so, was it intentional. that will shape their ultimate view and judgment they need to come up with, which _ judgment they need to come up with, which is _ judgment they need to come up with, which is did _ judgment they need to come up with, which is did he commit a contempt of parliament _ which is did he commit a contempt of parliament. so, the questions of exactly— parliament. so, the questions of exactly what he said, when he said it, exactly what he said, when he said it. whether — exactly what he said, when he said it, whether it was misleading and the severity will be all the things they witt— the severity will be all the things they will be working out when they come _ they will be working out when they come to _ they will be working out when they come to thatjudgment. if it does reach _ come to thatjudgment. if it does reach a _ come to thatjudgment. if it does reach a judgment, it is not up to the committee to make that happen. any sanction recommended by the committee would have to be approved by the _ committee would have to be approved by the house of commons as a whole, and the _ by the house of commons as a whole, and the privileges committee will

clearly— and the privileges committee will clearly be crucial, but it is not the only— clearly be crucial, but it is not the only actor that is involved. just in — the only actor that is involved. just in terms of his defence? it was quite detailed. at times, he was quite detailed. at times, he was quite exasperated with the whole process. quite exasperated with the whole rocess. ., .., , , quite exasperated with the whole rocess. ., , , , . process. you can sum up his defence. the first one — process. you can sum up his defence. the first one was _ process. you can sum up his defence. the first one was the _ process. you can sum up his defence. the first one was the idea that - process. you can sum up his defence. the first one was the idea that we - the first one was the idea that we couldn't care less about guidelines was rubbish. it wasn't party time. when you get back to it repeatedly. he said two events went longer than they should have, so if part of it.

and everyone thought they were doing the right thing. the second part is him saying he did get this repeated reassurance. they were saying was it enough to get reassurances from two people in the press office. is enough to get reassurances from two people in the press office.— people in the press office. is that we see the _ people in the press office. is that we see the key — people in the press office. is that we see the key to _ people in the press office. is that we see the key to those - we see the key to those deliberations of the committee, whether or not he didn't mislead parliament? i whether or not he didn't mislead parliament?— whether or not he didn't mislead parliament? .. ., �* . parliament? i think what we've seen, that looked as _ parliament? i think what we've seen, that looked as though _ parliament? i think what we've seen, that looked as though that _ parliament? i think what we've seen, that looked as though that was - parliament? i think what we've seen, that looked as though that was one i that looked as though that was one of the _ that looked as though that was one of the hardest bits forjohnson. harriet — of the hardest bits forjohnson. harriet harman, chairing the hearing in the _ harriet harman, chairing the hearing in the committee, was saying these assurances — in the committee, was saying these assurances seemed to be very flimsy. ithink— assurances seemed to be very flimsy. i think that's — assurances seemed to be very flimsy. i think that's something the committee will look at in terms of this question of whether he might have been— this question of whether he might have been reckless with what he said to parliament. was he taking sufficient care to ensure what he said was — sufficient care to ensure what he said was accurate? were the

assurances he received robust? that certainly— assurances he received robust? that certainly felt like a difficult line of questioning for him and will be important — of questioning for him and will be im ortant. .,. of questioning for him and will be im ortant. .,, ., ,, important. rob, do you feel we learned anything _ important. rob, do you feel we learned anything new— important. rob, do you feel we learned anything new this - important. rob, do you feel we - learned anything new this afternoon? we've sat through hours of the former prime minister's testimony, but have we've seen any kind of smoking gun or any clinching piece of evidence? it’s smoking gun or any clinching piece of evidence?— of evidence? it's a tricky question. the short answer— of evidence? it's a tricky question. the short answer is _ of evidence? it's a tricky question. the short answer is no, _ of evidence? it's a tricky question. the short answer is no, not - the short answer is no, not really. we've seen more of the same. it gets down to this. is it a question of belief? i guess it is. he was saying he thought these work events, they were outside, there was a bit of wine. he thinks all of that counts as being fine. wine. he thinks all of that counts as being fine-— as being fine. product -- part of his 'ob as being fine. product -- part of his job as _ as being fine. product -- part of his job as prime _ as being fine. product -- part of his job as prime minister- as being fine. product -- part of his job as prime minister is - as being fine. product -- part of his job as prime minister is to i his job as prime minister is to thank staff for his work.-

his job as prime minister is to thank staff for his work. what will they think? _ thank staff for his work. what will they think? it _ thank staff for his work. what will they think? it doesn't _ thank staff for his work. what will they think? it doesn't look - thank staff for his work. what will they think? it doesn't look like i they think? it doesn't look like work to me. in the end, that's a very difficult question to resolve. i think what mrjohnson has been trying to do, because this is a case to the wider public, but it to these mps. i to the wider public, but it to these mp5. i think he's trying to plant a seed of doubt about whether you really could go as far as saying he intentionally misled parliament. what about the committee? he was asked about his views of the privileges committee. some have his supporters may think it's biased. i supporters may think it's biased. i think this is one of the most interesting parts of the whole session~ _ interesting parts of the whole session. we saw a lot of very specific— session. we saw a lot of very specific questioning. sir charles walker, — specific questioning. sir charles walker, a — specific questioning. sir charles walker, a veteran conservative mp,

he's chaired — walker, a veteran conservative mp, he's chaired various committees himself. — he's chaired various committees himself, he wanted to askjohnson about— himself, he wanted to askjohnson about some of the things that some of his— about some of the things that some of his allies have been saying. so called _ of his allies have been saying. so called kangaroo courts, these kinds of allegations. what i think was notable — of allegations. what i think was notable is — of allegations. what i think was notable is to some extent throughout the session, while johnson appeared to emphasise he understood while the committee _ to emphasise he understood while the committee was doing this, he accepted _ committee was doing this, he accepted its work, he saw this hearing — accepted its work, he saw this hearing is— accepted its work, he saw this hearing is a useful exercise, he also _ hearing is a useful exercise, he also very— hearing is a useful exercise, he also very strongly implied that he would _ also very strongly implied that he would reserve judgment on whether he felt that— would reserve judgment on whether he felt that the committee has been fair until— felt that the committee has been fair until after he has seen what it has recommended. i think it's worth bearing _ has recommended. i think it's worth bearing in— has recommended. i think it's worth bearing in mind here that members of the current— bearing in mind here that members of the current government said in the commons — the current government said in the commons last week that she and colleagues would take a dim view of anyone _ colleagues would take a dim view of anyone trying to take pressure on the committee. sir lindsay hoyle had to say— the committee. sir lindsay hoyle had to say the _ the committee. sir lindsay hoyle had to say the same thing. i think for

johnson — to say the same thing. i think for johnson to— to say the same thing. i think for johnson to imply that he would reserve — johnson to imply that he would reserve judgment on the fairness of the committee and its work until he saw what _ the committee and its work until he saw what they said, it's quite a dangerous— saw what they said, it's quite a dangerous path for him to tread. rob, _ dangerous path for him to tread. rob, quick— dangerous path for him to tread. rob, quick question. if this all goes wrong, he could be suspended from the house. just goes wrong, he could be suspended from the house.— from the house. just to echo alice, that was one _ from the house. just to echo alice, that was one of _ from the house. just to echo alice, that was one of the _ from the house. just to echo alice, that was one of the most _ from the house. just to echo alice, that was one of the most dramaticl that was one of the most dramatic moment from borisjohnson. he was essentially saying, he would wait on the verdict. at spectrum, the committee could recommend the house suspends him for ten days or more, potentially trickery a by—election where he could lose his seats —— triggering. from the moment, thank you very triggering. from the moment, thank ou ve j . triggering. from the moment, thank ou ve j . ., , triggering. from the moment, thank ouve . . �*.

you very much, rob watson and alice lil . look you very much, rob watson and alice lily- look at — you very much, rob watson and alice lily. look at the _ you very much, rob watson and alice lily. look at the thoughts _ you very much, rob watson and alice lily. look at the thoughts of - you very much, rob watson and alice lily. look at the thoughts of james i lily. look at the thoughts of james heel lily. look at the thoughts of james heel, diary editor at the spectator magazine. quite a piece of political theatre. i'm sure a lot of people will be quite engrossed. he theatre. i'm sure a lot of people will be quite engrossed.- theatre. i'm sure a lot of people will be quite engrossed. he saw a bit of drama. _ will be quite engrossed. he saw a bit of drama, bit _ will be quite engrossed. he saw a bit of drama, bit a _ will be quite engrossed. he saw a bit of drama, bit a farce as - will be quite engrossed. he saw a bit of drama, bit a farce as well. i bit of drama, bit a farce as well. trying to avoid some of the critics landing a blow on him, but after three years in various forms, i think there was a lot of heat. so, i think there was a lot of heat. so, i think there wasn't so much in terms of borisjohnson, but i think it was telling lines of the committee in terms of sir charles walker making clear this wasn't a kangaroo court.

but also about how credible boris johnson's assurances were that there was a difference is between guidelines and also how dependency was having on number ten advisers. what do you make of his performance in this piece of theatre, if that's what it was? because he's often confused about being all over the place, but he seemed to have done a lot of preparation for this. he had a haircut as well, it looked like. it was three hours long, twice as long as the last time he gave evidence for a panel of mps. it was the day before he resigned as prime minister. that's quite a grueling. he seemed a bit rattled. that's perhaps unsurprising. i think the tension was halfway through, but then he pulled it back together. i

think what was released telling as he stuck in purgatory, he didn't land a knockout blow but they could not knock him out as well. i do wonder how many minds are going to be changed at this point, and the question comes to the seven mps. very briefly, what do you think they will do? i very briefly, what do you think they will do? .. . very briefly, what do you think they will do? ~' , . will do? i think there will be a suspension. _ will do? i think there will be a suspension, but _ will do? i think there will be a suspension, but i _ will do? i think there will be a suspension, but i wonder- will do? i think there will be a suspension, but i wonder if. will do? i think there will be a suspension, but i wonder if it| will do? i think there will be a . suspension, but i wonder if it will be the ten days. whatever they think privately, no one really in the party wants by—election right now. james heel, thank you very much indeed. mps here are starting to digest what theyjust heard. chris bryant was theyjust heard. chris bryant was the chair of the privileges committee previously before harriet

harman took over. he excused himself from this inquiry. what are your main takeaways? i’m from this inquiry. what are your main takeaways?— from this inquiry. what are your main takeaways? i'm already biased and i was biased _ main takeaways? i'm already biased and i was biased before _ main takeaways? i'm already biased and i was biased before we - main takeaways? i'm already biased and i was biased before we started! | and i was biased before we started! for the very first time, boris johnson admitted that social distancing wasn't popular in downing street. i believe that means that the rules are broken. the police give so many finds. he refused to deny that he had said this was the most socially on distance workplace in the country. so, i got the impression that he knows perfectly well that the rules weren't followed. he's always tried to cover it up. it's entirely up to the committee what they decide to do, what recommendation they make on the back of that. they'll decide whether

other circumstances aggravating... parliament relies on ministers telling the truth, and they'll look at whether he's corrected the record. i know at the end, he still refuses to correct the record. last may come along after all this, he still settle the guidance had been followed. and he still said it today. i think his mind is very, very muddled. d0 today. i think his mind is very, very muddled.— today. i think his mind is very, very muddled. today. i think his mind is very, ve muddled. , ., ,, . very muddled. do you think there are elements that _ very muddled. do you think there are elements that were _ very muddled. do you think there are elements that were still _ very muddled. do you think there are elements that were still not - elements that were still not truthful? that is a very significant claim given that he is under oath? the next moment he was saying sue gray was completely irrelevant and the... a lot of it was a bit of a mess. at one point, he said it was absolutely essential in downing street to have drinks to use to say

farewell to people. i got constituents who would have loved to be enabled to say farewell to some of their loved ones, but they weren't allowed in the room when they were dying. i think that will stick. he was asked a question about, "if you were asked, is it fine for you to have a drinks do to say farewell to staff, you said that's ok," and he went, blah, blah, blah. ithink that's ok," and he went, blah, blah, blah. i think you must know deep in his heart that he's got this wrong from the very beginning that he can't own up to it. one of the thing i thought was interesting, he was pushed on the question of... some people accused it of being a kangaroo court. he said this isn't one, and he will abide by whatever the committee decides. haifa one, and he will abide by whatever the committee decides.— one, and he will abide by whatever the committee decides. how likely do ou think the committee decides. how likely do you think the — the committee decides. how likely do you think the committee _ the committee decides. how likely do you think the committee will - the committee decides. how likely do you think the committee will agree i the committee decides. how likely do you think the committee will agree a l you think the committee will agree a unified response? j

you think the committee will agree a unified response?— unified response? i know all the members of _ unified response? i know all the members of the _ unified response? i know all the members of the committee - unified response? i know all the members of the committee and | unified response? i know all the | members of the committee and i unified response? i know all the - members of the committee and i work with them very closely. it's a difficult process coming to a shared view, but i'm sure that's what they will want to do, cos i thought they were very forensic and careful. there was no showboating and i thought they did a really good job. in a sense, this is a unique moment. no former prime minister has ever been held before a privileges committee in this way. it's important. i think the voters want to know that when a minister stands up to know that when a minister stands up in the commons, you can rely what they're saying is true, and if it's not, they'll correct the record. chris bryant, thank you very much. we've been discussing whether this will change people's minds. i think chris bryant's case in point as it has not. thank you very much indeed. also in

the uk parliament, mps have voted in favour of a key part of the new agreement for implementing post—brexit 's trading arrangement for northern ireland. the post-brexit 's trading arrangement for northern ireland.— for northern ireland. the ayes to the riaht, for northern ireland. the ayes to the right. 315. — for northern ireland. the ayes to the right, 315. the _ for northern ireland. the ayes to the right, 315. the noes - for northern ireland. the ayes to the right, 315. the noes to - for northern ireland. the ayes to the right, 315. the noes to the i the right, 315. the noes to the left, 29. in the right, 315. the noes to the left, 29. . the right, 315. the noes to the left, 29. , ., , . votes on the deal, which is known as the windsor framework, only 21 voted against the government's proposals. several high—profile mps oppose it. breaking news on the rail strikes affecting rail network here in the uk. rmt workers from the rail union, that union has announced that strikes by its members at 1a train companies

have been suspended. these were scheduled to happen on the 30th of march and the ist of april. they've been suspended after discussions with the rail delivery group today. the rmt already called off action as concerns, members of network rail, which looks after the tracks of the railway network. they've also postponed their strikes for the time being as well. it looks like a breakthrough on that rail strike there as well. emmanuel macron has defended his decision to decrease the retirement age. he appeared in a televised interview after days of widespread and often violent protests which are continuing. the president said the changes are a necessity, not a luxury, and he

wants them enforced by the end of the year. opinion polls indicate the changes are deeply unpopular in france and president macron's critics announces latest con down my comments as arrogance. having forced the legislation through the lower house of parliament. here's a clip of president macron during that interview. translation: there are no longer is a solution, and the more we wait, the more it gets worse. this reform is necessary and i say this to the french people - i and i say this to the french people — i don't enjoy the doing this and i prefer not to, but it's also because of the sense responsibility.- of the sense responsibility. pretty defiant mr macron. _ of the sense responsibility. pretty defiant mr macron. it _ of the sense responsibility. pretty defiant mr macron. it was - of the sense responsibility. pretty defiant mr macron. it was a - of the sense responsibility. pretty defiant mr macron. it was a 25 - of the sense responsibility. pretty| defiant mr macron. it was a 25 and of the sense responsibility. pretty i defiant mr macron. it was a 25 and a half minute — defiant mr macron. it was a 25 and a half minute interview _ defiant mr macron. it was a 25 and a half minute interview in _ defiant mr macron. it was a 25 and a half minute interview in which - defiant mr macron. it was a 25 and a half minute interview in which he - half minute interview in which he defended — half minute interview in which he defended his decision to push through— defended his decision to push

through this bill to avoid a vote in parliament. and he was robust and lucid about — parliament. and he was robust and lucid about his decision to take this step — lucid about his decision to take this step. he said this was a necessity— this step. he said this was a necessity for the country. he said it wasn't— necessity for the country. he said it wasn't a — necessity for the country. he said it wasn't a luxury, it was something which _ it wasn't a luxury, it was something which the _ it wasn't a luxury, it was something which the country needed because, as he said. _ which the country needed because, as he said. the _ which the country needed because, as he said, the french's particular system — he said, the french's particular system in _ he said, the french's particular system in which people and work pay for those _ system in which people and work pay for those in _ system in which people and work pay for those in retirement, will not survive — for those in retirement, will not survive the _ for those in retirement, will not survive the democratic changes without — survive the democratic changes without these reforms. he said he is prepared _ without these reforms. he said he is prepared to — without these reforms. he said he is prepared to take on himself, the unpopularity, which is quite clearly out there. — unpopularity, which is quite clearly out there, but that is his duty. "i would _ out there, but that is his duty. "i would rather take on this unpopularity than shirk my duty." he said there _ unpopularity than shirk my duty." he said there had been reforms triggering equal if not worse responses on the street, but they went— responses on the street, but they went ahead and he would not be proud

of his— went ahead and he would not be proud of his own _ went ahead and he would not be proud of his own record and face himself in the _ of his own record and face himself in the mirror, affectively, if you didn't— in the mirror, affectively, if you didn't go— in the mirror, affectively, if you didn't go ahead with this measure which _ didn't go ahead with this measure which was — didn't go ahead with this measure which was necessary for the future of the _ which was necessary for the future of the country. that's his message. it of the country. that's his message. it will— of the country. that's his message. it will not _ of the country. that's his message. it will not go — of the country. that's his message. it will not go down very well because _ it will not go down very well because the direction's already coming — because the direction's already coming in _ because the direction's already coming in from the opposition once again _ coming in from the opposition once again he's— coming in from the opposition once again. he's accused of his normal arrogance — again. he's accused of his normal arrogance and contempt for ordinary people _ arrogance and contempt for ordinary people i_ arrogance and contempt for ordinary people. i don't think any serious hope _ people. idon't think any serious hope of— people. i don't think any serious hope of this, convincing people who want to— hope of this, convincing people who want to protest. it will comfort those who broadly support the reforms — those who broadly support the reforms. the other two thirds of the country— reforms. the other two thirds of the country will — reforms. the other two thirds of the country will see him back in his own old form of— country will see him back in his own old form of the arrogant money man telling _ old form of the arrogant money man telling them how to run their lives. hugh— telling them how to run their lives. hugh schofield. there have been more russian missile strikes. one person was killed and more than 30 injured. strikes also

left four people dead in an overnight drone attack in the kyiv region. it comes as ukraine's president is visiting ukrainian troops close to the front line in the area of the city of bakhmut. fighting there has been raging more than seven months and the leader handed out awards, and was photographed with some ukrainian soldiers. james landale is an ukrainian capital kyiv with the latest. if ukrainian capital kyiv with the latest. , ., ~' ukrainian capital kyiv with the latest. , ., ,, . . , latest. if you think about the last coule latest. if you think about the last copple days. _ latest. if you think about the last couple days, the _ latest. if you think about the last couple days, the news _ latest. if you think about the last couple days, the news was - latest. if you think about the last couple days, the news was about president putin of russia. also hosting president she in moscow. i think this visit will be seen very much as a response to that —— president xijinping. forthat

extent, bakhmut has come to epitomise notjust resilience, but the failure of russia's president to achieve his immediate aims. i think thatis achieve his immediate aims. i think that is one of the signal that people will interpret from that with president zelensky saying, "we're still defending," and western still defending , " and western support still defending," and western support continues at the same time. the message from the united states and the imf is that more money will be forthcoming, about $15 billion to try and shore up ukraine's of economy, which is doing very, very little at the moment. this state, this country needs money from outside simplyjust to keep taking over to pay salaries, keep bills paid while the war is being fought. james landale reporting from kyiv.

united states is warning of dominant consumption of water keeps rising, and the report says about 10% of the world's population lives under water stress, where the ratio of water use to availability — is considered "high" or "critical". at the last assessment in 2020, more than a quarter of people around the globe still lacked access to safe drinking water, while 3.6 billion lacked access to safely managed sanitation sanitation services. the report says the water crisis is worst in low—income countries — for example, an estimated 70% of the population of sub—saharan africa lacks safe drinking—water services. aru na iyengar reports. humanity�*s lifeblood, water, is increasingly at risk around the world due to vampiric overconsumption and overdevelopment. that's the language used in the un report.

10% of the global population currently lives in areas that are high or critical water stress. in our report, we said that up to 3.5 billion people live under under conditions of water stress at least one month a year. the meeting in new york is asking governments and the private sector to come up with a water action agenda to meet a goal set in 2015 to ensure access to water and sanitation for all by 2030. the un says up to half the world's population doesn't have access to sanitation and a quarter doesn't have access to safe water supply. it blames unsustainable water use, pollution and unchecked global warming. the un is now calling for a change in attitude towards water as a shared resource. the global water cycle is a global common good. we just don't want to understand it because we believe water belongs to us.

we need to invest with that in our minds. the report notes that water scarcity has the greatest impact on poorer people and children. unicef had recently warned that 190 million children in ten african countries don't have access to clean water. the un says current levels of investment would have to be tripled to get safe drinking water for all by 2030. aruna iyengar, bbc news. (tx) the reconstruction of notre dame cathedral in paris has had many challenges in the four years since the icon was gutted by a fire. and now with much of the structural work done, teams there are narrowing their focus to recreating its famous statues — which are said to protect it from harm. stephanie prentice reports. they sit up high on historic buildings tasked with redirecting rainwater from roofs and also said to provide spiritual protection

from the wrath of heaven by scaring off evil spirits. no self—respecting cathedral could operate without its gargoyles. but some of them didn't survive the fire in 2019, and a dozen of france's finest sculptors were called in. translation: it's very fine. there are edges that are very fine, well drawn. we have to reproduce them as they were originally done. it's our duty. these new creatures are being made out of clay or huge blocks of stone shipped down the seine, but some of the older ones are also being saved. translation: this | is not viollet-le-duc. it is older. i think it dates from a restoration in the 18th century. you can recognize the style. it is very busy. you can see on the column that there

are lots of little spikes. each piece takes at least three weeks to complete, and after that, of course, the task of getting them into position begins. translation: these are stones that will now be part _ of the cathedral for. 400, 500, 600 years. this is another element that shows that the cathedral is rising - from its ashes. and notre dame, or our lady, is set to rise again as paris's gothic masterpiece in 202a. stephanie prentice, bbc news. 25 people have been injured after a ship tipped over and edinborough. three were treated at the scene intend taken to hospital. a major incident was declared after the vessel became dislodged from its holding. just a reminder of our top story — the former uk prime minister borisjohnson has denied misleading

parliament. he's been giving testimony to a parliamentary committee that will determine whether or not he deliberately misled mps about attending lockdown parties during the pandemic. you've been watching bbc news. last november, we'll be talking about rules... jags last november, we'll be talking about rules. . .— last november, we'll be talking about rules... a ., , ., , about rules... as millions of people are lockdown _ about rules... as millions of people are lockdown last _ about rules... as millions of people are lockdown last year, _ about rules... as millions of people are lockdown last year, was - about rules... as millions of people are lockdown last year, was a - are lockdown last year, was a christmas _ are lockdown last year, was a christmas party thrown in downing street? _ hello, good evening. it was very blustery today, particularly across northern and western areas of scotland. also some heavy thundery showers moving eastwards on that brisk south—westerly winds, but it wasn't raining all the time. there were some decent sunny spells around, too, as recorded by our weather watcher here in york. lots of blue sky here and no big changes in the forecast as we head through the next couple of days or so.

still unsettled, more wet and windy weather to come. also some sunshine and it stays mild until we get to the weekend, but still very blustery, particularly towards exposed western coast. there are some flood warnings in force. do keep checking the bbc weather website for more details. large waves and some coastal overtopping, particularly with the high spring tides, and it stays windy, too. overnight tonight, these bands of showers moving through. heavier rain across northern ireland, moving towards northwest england by the time we get to dawn. but lots of clear skies around and it will feel a bit cooler, i think for most than it was last night. temperatures for many down to mid—single figures, maybe a touch of frostjust in sheltered rural spots of scotland. now, low pressure dominates, of course, still on thursday. various systems waiting out in the atlantic — they'll be whizzing eastwards, giving us more wet and windy spells of weather. but for many, i think it will be a sunny start to the day on thursday. the showers will get going as we head through the late morning into the afternoon. moving eastwards, longer spells of rain, too, moving into southern england,

south east england and east anglia, perhaps by the end of the day, and it stays very blustery. a brisk south—westerly wind, again, especially towards western coastal areas. the air is still mild. temperatures again above the seasonal average between 12—15 celsius. let's take a look at friday — it's more of the same. in fact, it could be the windiest day of the week for england and wales. some more heavy thundery downpours moving through on that brisk wind. there could be some lightning and some hail around at times. the showers a bit more well scattered across scotland, it's still mild to temperatures between 10—14 celsius, but that's all about to change as we head through the weekend. why? well, because we're drawing a northerly wind. this cold arctic air is set to sink its way southwards as we head through saturday and eventually into sunday as well. there could be some showers that will have some wintriness in them, some snow, perhaps even to lower levels, and a widespread hard frost on sunday and monday nights.

at six — borisjohnson fights for his political career as he is grilled by mps over lockdown parties in downing street. i swear by almighty god that the evidence i shall give before this committee shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me god. during a marathon session in westminster — he stressed that he believed at the time that many of the gatherings were necessary for work. i'm here to say to you, hand on heart, that i did not lie to the house. when those statements were made, they were made in good faith and on the basis of what i honestly knew and believed at the time. the group of mps are investigating whether boris johnson deliberately or recklessly made misleading statements to parliament about a number of lockdown gatherings in downing street.

it is about the truth, and that is why this inquiry goes