welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. on the face of it, russia's war on ukraine has galvanised a strong and united european response — sanctions on moscow, weapons supplies to kyiv and a readiness to host millions of ukrainians fleeing the war. but scratch the surface and there are significant variations.

romania is notably reticent about the scale of its aid to ukraine. why? my guest is romania's foreign minister, bogdan aurescu. is his country ambivalent about confronting russia? foreign minister bogdan aurescu, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. it's a pleasure to have you. how destabilising has russia's war on ukraine been to your country, romania? as you know, romania is the nato and eu member state with the longest

border with ukraine, and we have been, since the very day one of the war of aggression of russia against ukraine, in the front line of the efforts of the international community to counter the effects of this war. and the effort of romania was very strong in support of ukraine on very many dimensions, and this is very much appreciated by ukraine. this is very much appreciated by our partners. i had the pleasure these days to talk with my counterpart, james cleverly, we have signed today a very important document, a joint declaration on updating our strategic partnership between romania and the united kingdom. yesterday, i have discussed with secretary of defence, ben wallace, and we have discussed a lot about this effort of romania to counter the effects of the war of russia against ukraine. i think it's fair to say that across europe, there is a deep understanding of the degree to which you are, as you put it,

a front—line state facing the fallout from the ukraine war. but ijust wonder whether you would acknowledge your people, the romanian people, are already, it seems, tiring of bearing the burden. i look at... i don't think so. well, i was about to quote to you... but, let me... ..a eurobarometer survey from last month. romania has the highest rate of public disapproval of all eu countries toward humanitarian aid for ukrainian refugees. you have a lot of them in your country, more than 100,000. you've seen millions pass through your country, but your people are getting fed up. i don't think so, and ijust wanted to tell you what are the lines put forward by romania in order to support ukraine. first of all, it was the humanitarian effort, because over 3.8 million ukrainian citizens have crossed our borders. and indeed, as you mentioned, around iio—ii2,000 ukrainian citizens are staying, as we speak now, in romania. and for everybody, those who crossed our border, but also for those who stayed, we have extended a very large area of support, for instance, free accommodation, free transport in the public system,

free access to the medical care system, free access to schools for the children, because most of these persons were mothers and children, but also free access to the job market. and the ukrainians coming to romania were able and are now employed in romania, so the effort was huge. then we had the humanitarian centre, which we created in the northern part of the country together with the european commission. that's the humanitarian effort, but i do... it's already one year since this is working with almost 80 international humanitarian missions, with 400 trucks of humanitarian aid which was transported to ukraine. and then it was... as i say, the public, it seems, is wearying of some of the burden. but i don't want to just stick to the humanitarian challenge, cos there's also a security... 65% of the romanian citizens are supporting the granting of humanitarian aid to ukrainian citizens which are coming to romania. i think it's a very good percentage. the romanians have opened their arms and houses to the ukrainian citizens

and they are continuing to support the ukrainian citizens who are coming as refugees in romania. there is no question about that. let's talk about the security situation as well, cos, again, it's a challenge. you have the black sea security situation. you also have your airspace to defend. you are, as you said, the country with the longest border with ukraine. you also clearly have a major interest in moldova, where, again, we have seen russian interference. to what extent do you fear that, in security terms, romania could get dragged into conflict? romania is a nato ally, as you very well know, together with uk, and we've been discussing these days about the support of uk for air policing in romania, for instance. but not only for that, because we have an excellent cooperation in the security dimension in the military field. but at the same time, paradoxically, the aggression of russia

against ukraine last year, of course, increased the level of insecurity in the region at european and euro—atlantic level, because russia targeted the core parameters of the security architecture at euro—atlantic scale. well, at the same time, one effect of that was that nato has taken very bold decisions to make the security of the alliance as a whole, especially on the eastern flank, more consolidated. for instance, the madrid summit last year injune took the decision to increase the deterrence and defence posture on the eastern flank. last year, we have created battle groups in the southern part of the eastern flank. correct me if i'm wrong, you host the us missile defence systems... and a number of troops. ..on romanian soil? yes, but it has nothing to do with russia. well... it has nothing to do with russia. it has a great deal to do with your nato membership. of course.

and it also has a great deal to do with the fact that what we see in recent months is the russians firing missiles towards ukraine and, according to the ukrainians, last month, violating romanian airspace. clear this up for me. did it happen? may i finalise my answer to the previous question? well, we only have 2a minutes, and there's a lot to get through. basically, the result of the war of aggression against ukraine was that nato increased the allied presence in romania. now, as we speak, we have more than 5,300 troops of allied nations in romania on the romanian soil. we have americans, of course, we have the battle group, which is led by france, together with soldiers from luxembourg, from netherlands, from belgium, from poland and many other countries. so, paradoxically, the security of romania and of the eastern flank has increased in the last year. right, but i'm asking straight questions... now, about the missile system. ..i would like straight answers. did russia violate romanian airspace... no, sir. ..firing missiles across europe? i think it's very clear that no, the answer is no. and if it does...

and the missile defence system in romania has nothing to do with russia. it targets possible missile attacks from outside the euro—atlantic space. i was the negotiator of the missile defence agreement between romania and the united states, and this is the nato policy with regard to this defence system in romania. if it does, if russia does violate your airspace with cruise or kalibr missiles, how will you respond? i'm not commenting on hypothetical events. this is something which has to deal with nato collective defence. why doesn't romania go public with the scale of its own military financial assistance to romania ? european partners... to ukraine, you mean. to ukraine. european partner nations are very clear about the scale of military assistance they're giving. you keep it secret. why? because this is the policy of my government. we consider it is more efficient in this way. what is really important is for nato and for nato allies to be able to help in an efficient manner ukraine, and we think that this is better for ukraine. your ukrainian counterpart, dmytro kuleba, has been on this programme several times.

he always says when it comes to what he needs from european allies, he says weapons, weapons, weapons. others are giving tanks. 0thers, poland, slovakia giving warplanes. just tell me what you have given to ukraine. i'm not commenting on that, as i told you. i know you're not going to give me the detail, but have you supplied tanks? have you supplied heavy artillery? sorry, i'm not commenting on these issues, because this is the policy of my government, as i have just told you. you see, there are people inside your country and partners outside who believe that romania is giving very little. well, i'm not commenting on this. and is it because, and i refer again to public opinion surveys inside your country, there is a very significant body of romanian opinion that doesn't want your government to offer assistance to ukraine? the public support in romania for assisting ukraine, i think it's quite large, and i think we are doing the right thing. russia has violated international law. the territorial integrity of ukraine. ukraine is the victim of the aggression. we need to support ukraine.

and i think this is very clear for the large majority of romanians. there is no doubt about that. you're a democracy, aren't you? do you have doubts about that? well, no, but i do know that in democracies, the public expect accountability from the government. if you are sending significant funds and significant military equipment to ukraine, your public, the people who vote in your government, surely have a right to know. well, i think at the end of the war, many things will be known, but what is important now is to help ukraine win this war. this is my comment. do you believe in accountability? absolutely. so where's the accountability? well, i think russia should be accountable for what it is doing in ukraine. i think we are... let me quarrel with that. ..we are supposed to help ukraine to win this war. and this is what we are doing together with the other allies. we are part of the effort of the european union, of nato, we are supporting the defence capacity building programmes in both ukraine and moldova.

we arejoining the european peace facility, including the recent deal to acquire together ammunition. we are part of the 17 eu member states, together with norway, which are a very consistent part of this arrangement, which was recently agreed on monday in brussels. let's talk urgency. i just spoke to the president of the czech republic, petr pavel. he says the need right now to back ukraine militarily is urgent because he says there's a window of opportunity this year for ukraine to make significant military gains. he fears that if they don't make those gains this year, the will of europe, particularly to back ukraine, will begin to dwindle. do you agree? yes, i think it's very important to support ukraine now, because the following weeks and months are crucial for the fate of the war in ukraine. do you feel a sense of fatigue with this war in your own country? in my country, no, but perhaps in other countries, which i'm not commenting on, it might be. as far as romania is concerned,

i don't think it is the case. well, it's interesting you say that, because your own minister of national defence, vasili denko, he gave an interview last autumn in which he said that, in his opinion, russia can sustain this war indefinitely, ukraine's only chance of achieving peace is to engage in negotiations with moscow. he said that, actually, he believed those negotiations should be handled by nato, by international partners of ukraine cos he said it's going to involve concessions which the ukrainians themselves will find it very difficult politically to make... mr denko is no longer minister of defence of romania. the point is this is only in october... the official position of romania, as was presented by the president of romania, you might quote him as well, is that the official position of nato and of the european union, is that the peace negotiations will start when ukraine will consider that it is fit to start. it took at least three days for your president

and prime minister to actually back away from the comments from mr denko. why? back away? i don't think that they have endorsed these comments. no, that's what i'm saying. they didn't back away. they didn't deny the truth of his comments, and that being romania's... the position of romania is very clear. was very clear always in that respect, and this is the position at the level of the european union and nato as well. this is the position. the definition of peace and win in ukraine belongs to the ukrainians because they are the victims of the aggression. if the ukrainians would like to start the negotiations, well, it's up to them. if they want to define what means peace and what means victory as far as this war is concerned, it's up to them. we've talked about the impact of the war on your region. nobody should... can there be... can there be a stability for romania... nobody should negotiate over the head of the ukrainians. ..if russia is allowed to occupy ukrainian territory? nobody should force the ukrainians to accept a peace

that they don't want. and nobody should force the ukrainians to cede territories which were forcefully and illegally occupied by russia. this is the international rule of law. we cannot accept such kind of ideas. should leaders of nato and eu member states even contemplate negotiation with vladimir putin, who, of course, now is an indicted, wanted suspected war criminal thanks to the international criminal court? and i have personally welcomed this decision because we think that nobody should be impune before the internationaljustice for crimes committed in ukraine. romania was one of the 43 countries which seized in the international criminal court in march last year for crimes of war, crimes against humanity and genocide committed... is putin a man who can be negotiated with? well, that's a very good question. only the ukrainians could answer this question. as far as i know, president zelensky is not, well, very happy to negotiate with mr putin. mr zelensky, of course, wants as much support as he can get

from countries such as yours, eu and nato member states. why is it that romania, in the course of this year and more of war, is still pursuing beefs, if i can put it that way, complaints against ukraine? there is a tension and a fractiousness to your relationship with ukraine. why do you continue with that? i'm not sure, what are you talking about? what fractions do you mean? there's at least two different issues which have revealed differences in the last year between you and ukraine. ah, of course. 0ne, as you well know, is the status of a canal at the mouth of the danube, which the ukrainians have been dredging because they desperately need a new port facility, given what russia is doing in the black sea. you have objected to that dredging and called for it to be halted. why? if you speak about this issue, this is a bilateralfile, which has quite a long history,

i think almost 20 years. with respect, minister, ukraine is fighting for its national life. and you and your country choose to demand that they stop trying to develop a new port facility. why? so, i was trying to answer your question. so, this has a long history, this file has a long history. and, well, to cut it short, recently the ministry of transport in romania has flagged that it might be that the ukraine side is dredging on this part of the danube delta, which is a unique ecosystem, which is highly protected by many international agreements regarding environment. and we have discussed with the ukrainian side and agreed to have measurements in order to see whether these dredges have taken place and if they affect the danube delta ecosystem. yeah, as i say, an existential crisis, you really think this is a priority? this has nothing to do with the war in ukraine. well, as far as the ukrainians are concerned, it has a great deal to do with their capacity...

i haven't seen any statements... ..to sustain their economy. i haven't seen any statement of ukraine saying this. to the contrary, we have now under way a process of technical measurements on that canal. and, of course, we will see the results of these measurements, and this issue will be solved bilaterally. and it has nothing to do with the effort of romania to support ukraine, which will continue, of course, without any kind of doubt. well, just on the other bilateral issue, which, again, sees kyiv and bucharest at odds with each other, you have complained bitterly about a national minorities law passed in ukraine in december 2022. your president told mr zelensky of romania's deep concern and dissatisfaction. well, indeed, this piece of legislation was passed quite suddenly, and there are some probably provisions missing from that piece of legislation. we are in a process of bilateral consultations with the ukrainian side, and we hope that this will be solved bilaterally. but you, on your side of this

argument, have claimed that it absolutely curtails the ethnic romanian minority�*s right in ukraine to speak romanian in schools. that's not true, according to the ukrainians. mr zelensky simply says that when it comes to children in ukraine, he says they must know their own language, they must also know the ukrainian language. that is only fair, he says. do you have a problem with that? no, we do not have any problem with the romanian citizens, romanian ethnics, which are also ukrainian citizens, to perfectly know ukrainian language. but at the same time, it is important that they also have the possibility to learn the romanian language and to be taught in romanian language. these two things can be, well, can exist at the same time. as president zelensky has guaranteed. president zelensky also guaranteed that the romanian community in ukraine will have exactly the same rights as the ukrainian

community in romania. and the romanian system of protection of national minorities is highly valued at international and european level. so we have a process of... that's not strictly true, is it? not when it comes to the roma, you have hundreds of thousands of roma people in your country, and... you should probably check the evaluations of the council of europe in that respect. but as far as ukraine is concerned and the law on minorities, we do not have an open quarrel on that. we have a process... well, on the roma... ..of consultations, which will be solved bilaterally. the european roma rights centre issued a report last year called brutal and bigoted: policing roma inside the eu, which cites romania as one key eu nation, which still shows... you are projecting on romania, and i don't think it's fair. sorry, what's not fair? i'm just simply citing to you a report which was issued last year by the european roma rights centre, which itemised police brutality in a number of countries against roma people. particularly, it said romania was one of the problem countries. this is simply not true. there are problems. it is isolated...

it is absolutely true. i can show you the report, if you like. well, you should probably read more reports, sir, but i'm not denying that there might be isolated cases. but you cannot overgeneralise this issue over the romania as a whole. this is not fair. believe me, foreign minister, this is not my opinion. i'm simply citing to you a researched report which comes from a well—known group, the european roma rights centre. you can choose to deny it, but it's out there. well, i'm not denying the report. i'm denying the way you are presenting this, overgeneralising it to the romanian people as a whole. let's get back to the fallout from the war, and let's talk about moldova. is it your opinion that russia continues to meddle, to interfere in moldova? yes. unfortunately, the pressure of russia over moldova is increasing in the last weeks and months. and this is very visible from the threats that they are targeting the moldovan officials,

the moldovan government, the decisions of the moldovan government, which is a very pro—reform, pro—european oriented government. you've deepened your ties with that government in terms of financial markets and also in terms of sharing long—term aspirations. you want to see moldova inside the european union? absolutely, we have supported. you also want to see moldova... we have supported. ..inside romania. would you like ultimately to see unification of moldova with romania? we want to see the unification of moldova with romania within the european union, by moldova becoming a member of the european union as a state, as an independent state. and in the meantime... this is what we support. ..you say there is evidence, and by the way, i don't know what evidence you're citing, of continued russian interference and meddling. can you give me some substance to that? well, there are public statements by the foreign minister of russia, by the spokesperson of the russian ministry of foreign affairs. you can check this. well, what we have seen is dmitry peskov, spokesman for the kremlin, delivering a warning to moldova, saying russia was and is, his words, a responsible

party regarding tra nsnistria. we know that russia keeps more than 1,000 troops in transnistria, which is a sort of breakaway enclave within moldovan territory... under russian control. he says, this is peskov, "we would advise our moldovan "counterparts to tread extremely carefully," and he says there is anti—russian hysteria in moldova. how fearful are you that there will be an extension of the conflict into moldova? well, i don't think there is a challenge for moldova in terms of a possible military attack of russia against the country. but i think there are already other ways from the, let's say, hybrid instrumental instruments tool that russia is using. and these were already revealed by the moldovan authorities, groups of people hired and financed by pro—russian forces, which are trying to destabilise the country, organising protests which are paid with russian money. these are information which were revealed by the moldovan authorities. by now, the moldovan authorities

and the moldovan government managed to deal in a responsible and calm manner all these challenges. but i think, and we were discussing these days with my counterpart, with the secretary of defence, wallace, it is important to continue the support for consolidating the resilience of the republic of moldova to consolidate their defence capacities. even if moldova is a neutral state, they have no intention tojoin nato, but it is important to support them to consolidate their security. if there were deep instability in moldova, and maybe violence as well, would romanian troops intervene? well, this is, i think, not the case. i think the moldovans are able to deal with their own security. what we need to do is to help them to be able to be, well, in control and to continue to be in control. this is something which is already assumed at the level of nato, the level of the european union

and at the level of the partnerships between some member states of nato and of the european union directly with the republic of moldova. we talked earlier about urgency. i talked about the czech president telling me of a window of opportunity. what do you think is going to happen by the end of this year? do you believe ukraine has the capacity to win this war this year? well, i wish ukraine be able to reject the aggression of russia, to cope with the russian aggression and to be victorious. this is our hope. this is why we are supporting ukraine as much as we can and as long as it takes. all right, we have to end there. but, foreign minister bogdan aurescu, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you so much. thank you very much indeed.

hello there. it's been a very wet month for many parts of the country. we've had more rain today. there'll be more rain tomorrow as well. difference is, tomorrow's rain may be not quite as extensive and it's going to be warmer rain as well. it's been quite cold, though, today across some eastern parts of the uk, but that colder air is getting pushed away. milder south—westerly winds coming our way, temperatures rising. that milder swirling around very large area of low pressure in the atlantic. within that, the cloud is thickening up and some rain developing, and that's going to be heading our way once again. today's rain, though, is continuing to just shuffle away out into the north sea, so it's going to be dry

for much of the night. a lot of cloud around, some rain in western scotland and the far south—west of england by the end of the night, but fairly mild tonight. the lowest temperatures are going to be again in the north—east of scotland, but this time, three or four degrees above freezing. it's looking quite cloudy tomorrow. there won't be a lot of sunshine around. we'll see this rain developing and pushing into england and wales. some heavier rain for northern ireland, heading towards western parts of scotland. there's the chance of some heavy rain later in the day for wales and more especially in the south—west of england. it's going to be a windier day, but it's mild air, so temperatures widely 15, possibly even 16 degrees. that wetter weather then moves eastwards and out of the way overnight, before this next low pressure arrives. we've got a run of west

of south—westerly winds for thursday, and that means sunshine and showers. strongest winds are going to be for england and wales. this is where we'll see most of the showers. they'll develop more widely, they could turn heavy and thundery with some hail. fewer showers and not quite so windy for scotland and northern ireland, but it's still mild air on thursday. and before the downpours arrive in eastern england, temperatures could reach 16 or 17 degrees, so probably the warmest day of the next few. and then very quickly after dark, this area of low pressure brings some wet and windy weather. the strongest winds are going to be across northern france still. the biggest impacts for the uk will come from yet more rain. and the wetter weather will be affecting more southern parts of england and wales, although we will see some rain in northern ireland and for scotland and northern england. there'll be some showers, but hopefully a bit of sunshine around as well. temperatures aren't going to be quite so high on friday, 11 to 13 degrees. and as we head into the weekend, that cooling trend continues.

temperatures will be dropping, but the rain should be moving away and it should be turning drier.