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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  March 31, 2023 12:30am-1:00am BST

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and trump in new york next week and my colleague also talking about the potential and possibility of supporters heading to the court room, the courthouse next week. what concerns might there be from authorities in terms of support that we might see? what are we expecting supporters to say? well, i think we're not going to see the massive violent protests that we saw around january the 6th. similarly, i think a lot of people that would have been prone to maybe protest and supporting in that way saw what happened to those on january the 6th. way saw what happened to those onjanuary the 6th. i also think folks will realise that this was about the private citizen donald trump in his own legal affairs. citizen donald trump in his own legalaffairs. however, citizen donald trump in his own legal affairs. however, while i don't think the protests were massive and i hope they are not
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violent, we have to remember violence only takes... and that's why we have to over prepare because we can't allow something like this to happen again. but i don't think we'll be seeing violence and massive protests. calvin, thank you _ and massive protests. calvin, thank you so _ and massive protests. calvin, thank you so much _ and massive protests. calvin, thank you so much for- and massive protests. calvin, thank you so much forjoiningi thank you so much forjoining us on the programme. a reminder for our top story — donald trump has become the first us president in history to be charged with a crime. be indicted in new york over alleged hush money giving to a pawn star —— porn star. he's run again for president in 2024, has repeated he is innocent. we had statements coming in from the trump team with mr trump calling the entire process persecution and electoral interference. we can
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cross live back to my colleague nada tawfik in new york. we were speaking just moments ago, and you are saying that the press is now beginning to gather in that area not too far away from where you are. what are the kinds of things you're hearing from people who have been talking about this. 7 voters who have been looking at what's been happening today? well, a lot of passersby stopping with ink street. there's a small park with a banner saying, "trump always lies." 0ther banner saying, "trump always lies." other people stopping, looking and
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looking, surprised that the district attorney would go after donald trump with these charges. if you think speak to anybody they would acknowledge this is the least confidential case. when you look at the the special investigation against him. for having classified documents in mar—a—lago and not turning those over to the fbi. certainly, there are other cases that continue to hover over the former president, and this was one of the least consequential. this local case has now made donald trump a history making for another reason. the first former president to be criminally indicted, and so i think a lot of people arejust indicted, and so i think a lot of people are just really curious to know what happens from here. this is part of a
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five year long investigation, and we have seen over the last few months a number of trump aides testifying to a grand jury, including those very central to his past administration. we've also seen his formerfixer and now administration. we've also seen his former fixer and now his antagonist, michael cohen, testifying to the grand jury and in an eight minute —— a statement saying how he wants us to play out, but this sends a signal that no one is above the law. you'll remember in 2018, not farfrom here, michael 2018, not far from here, michael cohen 2018, not farfrom here, michael cohen was convicted and spent time injail on michael cohen was convicted and spent time in jail on federal campaign violation. michael cohen's statement throughout, as the trump team has said, he is a convicted liar. he has said yes, he has spent time in prison and pleaded guilty to
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those charges, so why is the individual role who directed him to make these payments, how is he not being held accountable? we know for such a accountable7 we know for such a long time, federal prosecutors didn't go after the former president, and a large part of that was because guidance in the justice department shields a thejustice department shields a president in office from any investigations. but even after he left office, federal officials didn't go after the former president. what we have here is the district attorney alvin bragg taking the case, and the stakes really couldn't be higher for and the stakes really couldn't be higherfor him. we do not have the indictment so we don't know the exact charges. we also don't know exactly what evidence they have, but what has been reported, he will base
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this felony charge on an untested legal theory that falsifying these business records to conceal a crime of campaign violations. that is a legal theory that hasn't been tested. the stakes are incredibly high for the district attorney to get this case right if it impact heads trial. we have had a statement saying... to the manhattan da office, so right behind me. which remains under seal, guidance will be provided when the arraignment date is selected. they do expect that to be early next week. he talks about the indictment. that is what the grand jury have now sent up to the court, that has the list of charges, and that won't be be unsealed until mr trump is formally in front of a
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judge for his first key hearing. judge for his first key hearing-— judge for his first key hearing. judge for his first key hearinu. . . . ., hearing. nada, we are now caettin hearing. nada, we are now getting that _ hearing. nada, we are now getting that confirmation i hearing. nada, we are now. getting that confirmation from alvin bragg's office, confirming the invite meant —— indictment. give us a sense of how important alvin bragg is in this entire process. this is pretty unprecedented for him. it is pretty hard going in the weeks ahead for him. yeah, that's right. _ weeks ahead for him. yeah, that's right, and _ weeks ahead for him. yeah, that's right, and i _ weeks ahead for him. yeah, that's right, and i think- weeks ahead for him. yeah, that's right, and i think it's. that's right, and i think it's worth pointing out that this investigation really started with his predecessor, cyrus vance. when alvin bragg came in, a lot of the investigations were ongoing. there is a separate one into the trump organisation and whether they inflated their assets to get more favourable loan terms. while we have the new york
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state going after the trump organisation, in manhattan, they decided against that. the district attorney got a lot of criticism from the prosecutors themselves, who resigned and criticised him. his response has been that that investigation is ongoing, so it really caught the attention of many in new york when, in fact, the district attorney convened a grand jury and started going after this other case that has been hovering over donald trump. donald trump has really tried to paint alvin bragg as a radical leftist who is letting crime run rampant in new york and go after him politically and go after him politically and being funded by top democrats. while the position of district attorney �*s political, he is a democrat, he has in fact campaigned when the district attorney ran —— when he ran for the position to advance more socialjustice
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issues. that has been a major issues. that has been a major issue on the death of george floyd, and certainly a topic that has gripped new york for many years. he really came in on that kind of platform, but nevertheless, he finds himself taking on the investigations from his predecessor and deciding to move forward on those charges. so, the former president has used him as a sort of bogeyman, you could say, as part of this larger narrative that he is putting out that this is the entire democratic establishment coming after him to try to influence the outcome of the presidential election in 2024. i think what's so interesting is the fact that donald trump is still the front runner in that campaign for the republican primary. many have debated, will this help him or hurt him? on the one hand, he is hoping 0n the one hand, he is hoping this energises his base, and we've seen so many republicans clearly afraid to anger that
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based coming out in support of the former president. but what about others who are willing to look at another candidate7 about others who are willing to look at another candidate? will this just look at another candidate? will thisjust add to look at another candidate? will this just add to their perception that donald trump has too much baggage and is unelectable7— unelectable7 rights. nada tawfik, always _ unelectable7 rights. nada tawfik, always great - unelectable7 rights. nada tawfik, always great to - unelectable7 rights. nada| tawfik, always great to get unelectable7 rights. nada - tawfik, always great to get you on the show. reporting from new york. we can speak now to richard paynter, former chief white house at lawyer for george w. bush. currently a law professor at the university of minnesota. great to be on the programme. your reaction to the events today. programme. your reaction to the events today-— events today. first, i want to clarify what _ events today. first, i want to clarify what the _ events today. first, i want to clarify what the charges - events today. first, i want to | clarify what the charges here. it actually is quite serious. new york city is one of the world's financial capitals and will so if it becomes a money laundromat or where people can conceal crimes elsewhere. whether it's a violation of federal law in the united states or trying to conceal
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bribery in london or anywhere else. if you falsify financial record in new york in order to commit a crime to conceal a crime somewhere else, that is a felony in new york, and new york has the right and the obligation to protect the integrity of its financial system by prosecuting crimes like this, whether they are committed by the banks or by former president of the united states. so, this is a serious crime. it was committed a while backin crime. it was committed a while back in 2016, but alvin bragg is right to pursue this. that is right to pursue this. that is by far not the serious crime —— most serious crime from donald trump. he has exposure for sedition and insurrection. those crimes would disqualify
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him from ever having public office again in the united states. he also has a pending investigation in full fulton county, georgia. it's a felony in georgia and donald trump may be indicted down there. this is the first of several potential indictments against the former president. has indictments against the former resident. �* , , ., indictments against the former resident. a ., president. as you point out, there is still _ president. as you point out, there is still so _ president. as you point out, there is still so much - president. as you point out, there is still so much that i president. as you point out, | there is still so much that we don't know, but what you're saying about new york, given the fact that falsifying business records is illegal in new york, what are you expecting from a legal perspective to take place? well, there is an arraignment, and whether the defendant pleads guilty, and then bail is arranged and he would post bail. that has to be sorted
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out. and then they would pretrial discovery and go through the process and have a trial. sometime within the next year, donald trump may want to put that off and try to delay it. so, there's going to be some back and forth over the scheduling of the trial. the defendant has the right to a speedy trial, but they have sometimes gotten away was pushing it down the road a little bit. i wouldn't be surprised to see donald trump try it. he does have closure to other criminal charges in georgia and the us department ofjustice. we have yet the elves plays out. this ofjustice. we have yet the elves plays out.— ofjustice. we have yet the elves plays out. as you point out, elves plays out. as you point out. the _ elves plays out. as you point out, the details _
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elves plays out. as you point out, the details of _ elves plays out. as you point out, the details of this - elves plays out. as you point out, the details of this are i out, the details of this are still coming through and in terms of how this might play out going forward, it's already generated so much reaction from both sides of the political spectrum, particularly from the republicans, with many calling this political persecution. impossible to celebrate the —— separate politics from all of this. what do you think the reaction might be to this case? unfortunately, we live in this postmodern world where some people think there is no such thing as objective truth and kellyanne conway, adviser to president trump, talked about alternative facts! my narrative is just as good as yours. everything is about politics. if you have too much of that, democracy disintegrates. it can
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turn into a totalitarian state. hopefully we have the majority focus on the law and the fact. i do think it's unfortunate that this charge was the first to be filed against the former president. it's a strong case, but is by far not the most serious charge. insurrection and sedition. the charges are connected with january the 6th. they resonate a lot more powerfully with american people. that was an attempt to overthrow the us government. i hope the department ofjustice had over two years to sort out the investigation, can figure out who ought to be prosecuted and very well may include the former president and connection. that mob didn't just go up to the capitol on their own. there were certainly some encouragement along the way and we for the whole story for the united states house
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committee. for the united states house committee-— for the united states house committee. richard, we are lookin: committee. richard, we are looking at — committee. richard, we are looking at pictures - committee. richard, we are looking at pictures as - committee. richard, we are looking at pictures as well. committee. richard, we are| looking at pictures as well of what i believe it isn't too far away from the mar—a—lago estate and what we can see there, some supporters — just two at the moment on a screen — getting ready for some kind of show of support. we've been talking about the fact that it's impossible to separate politics from what's going on in everyday life. particularly when it comes to a court case, an unprecedented case like this and the fact that has to do with donald trump, you are saying just moments go but this is not the most serious of the charges and it's unfortunate in your view that this is the one that they're going ahead with first. talk us through why you think that was the decision. alvin bragg can only prosecute
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crimes under the laws of the state of new york. this is clearly a crime of the state of you know —— new york. it did happen a while back. everybody understands the grave danger the united states was in in january 2021 when there was an invasion of the capitol and it attempts to overthrow the us government. donald trump clearly encouraged that, and he also planned to pressure the did justice department to declare the election illegal and talked about sending the military in to seize the ballot boxes. we've seen that in a whole bunch of countries around the world. we haven't seen a successful self coup in the united states, but we came very close in january 2021.
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united states, but we came very close injanuary 2021. we really need to get thejustice department to get up front on that. what you don't want to do is swing and miss when prosecuting up political leader who has authoritarian and insurrectionist tendencies, and evenif insurrectionist tendencies, and even if you get a conviction, if you don't get a serious enough conviction so that you can impose a sentence, he can turn the entire trial into a political circus where he is the hero for his base. and that is very dangerous, and that could propel him to office again with an even more authoritarian man. that's what we want to avoid.— authoritarian man. that's what we want to avoid. richard, 'ust to say that fl we want to avoid. richard, 'ust to say that the i we want to avoid. richard, 'ust to say that the people i we want to avoid. richard, 'ust to say that the people who i to say that the people who support donald trump, american voters in american democracy who support donald trump and they support him for a variety of reasons, what they're watching tonight and what they've been saying across social media as well as in their comments is that this
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appears to be a persecution, electoral interference going after donald trump yet again. i wonder whether in your capacity as former at lawyer for george w. bush and in your capacity as a law professor, if you could speak to that, the divisiveness within american society today, the fact that when something like that comes up, there is a sort of instantaneous reaction from both sides where it is impossible at some level to actually look at the case in the fact at hand. instead people are now very much focused on the politics. i would emphasise to the white house and my ethic lester's, and i gave a lot of them, and several after the indictment of the vice president and chief of staff —— ethics lectures. 0ne staff —— ethics lectures. one
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of the things i've been very clear about back then in 2005 is if you commit a crime, you will be prosecuted just like everyone else. no person is above the law. nobody. and the law is what the... i know it's this idea and somehow everything boils down to politics, and that's all law is and that's pushed by the far left and the critical theory, and it's been pushed by the far—right, and that's an old thing. that's what was said in the 1930s and 40s. it's just about political struggle and he joined the nazi party in 1933. it destroys democracy, and that's what happened with the trial where they try to overthrow the government. . 0ut
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they were and they were the heroes of the extreme right. we've got to make up our minds in the and there's no such thing as a rule of law. i believe we are going to is come out on the side of the rule of law. richard painter there7 thank you forjoining us with your thoughts. i want to show you the view from palm beach airport. that's president trump's plane parked on the tarmac. no indication of whether we may see him today for what his plans might be, he
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is due in new york next week. let's speak to henry 0lson from the ethics and public policy centre an expert in american politics. i don't know how much we've been discussing, you are able to listen to, but your reaction to the unprecedented moment that we're seeing today. i think it's an interaction between politics and law, which view very well be that the former president violated the law. that's something we will find out when the cases are made. by saying he would sue trump over 100 times, he chooses to bring a case in a court and the entire state is
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controlled by democrats, that is not entirely illegal. i think that's what makes people so angry, and that it where e—mail —— a very well may be. the motives on the opportunity to go through the system are farfrom... this to go through the system are far from- - -— far from. .. as you point out, there is _ far from. .. as you point out, there is only _ far from. .. as you point out, there is only some _ far from. .. as you point out, there is only some of- far from. .. as you point out, there is only some of the - far from. .. as you point out, i there is only some of the anger thatis there is only some of the anger that is being expressed from the republican base. i want to read you what rhonda santos has said. —— rhonda santos. he tweeted that the state will not... given so much that we don't know but with comments like this, how difficult does this become to proceed with —— ron desantis with yellow this
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is? ., , ., , , ron desantis with yellow this is? ., , is? one of the problems that's auoin to is? one of the problems that's going to be — is? one of the problems that's going to be fixed, _ is? one of the problems that's going to be fixed, is _ is? one of the problems that's going to be fixed, is going - is? one of the problems that's going to be fixed, is going to l going to be fixed, is going to be difficult to find a jury thatis be difficult to find a jury that is on titan down —— untainted. there is a jury pool they can draw from and the jurisdiction that the indictment will be brought and voted against from. you are going to have multiple problems with actually finding a fair trial. this is the sort of thing we've seen in other countries, in brazil when former president lula was tried and jailed. people believe that it was a political matter. when you take actions like this against powerful figures and they're not clear and convincing on a matter of both law and fact, you're soaking political dissatisfaction rather than on holding the law. that's what we're seeing today. just briefly, what other
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options would have been available in this situation, given the fact that there have been these investigation going on for some time?— on for some time? first of all, we don't _ on for some time? first of all, we don't know— on for some time? first of all, we don't know what _ on for some time? first of all, we don't know what facts - on for some time? first of all, we don't know what facts are i we don't know what facts are being alleged. we don't know exactly what law has been alleged. people have said that the district attorney was planning to bring felony charges, but many people have said that the expectation is that the facts are more consistent with an ra —— minor missed demeanour charge. i think there is a political is isolation of the legal process thatis isolation of the legal process that is distorting the ability of people to see ethic. henry olson from — of people to see ethic. henry olson from the _ of people to see ethic. henry olson from the public - of people to see ethic. henry olson from the public policy | 0lson from the public policy centre an expert in american politics, thanks so much for joining us. a reminder of the breaking news that's been coming throughout this our — donald trump becoming the first
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former president of the us to face criminal charges. do stay with us. hello there. thursday turned out to be the warmest day of the year so far, with temperatures in suffolk reaching highs of 17.8 celsius, very close to 18 degrees. but while there were some spells of sunshine, there were also some hefty downpours. and we're starting friday with, actually, some more persistent rain swirling around this area of low pressure. now, this has been named by the french weather service. it's been named storm martis for the strength of the winds in the north of france. but it is also bringing some very strong winds through the english channel affecting the channel islands, southern coasts of england, even into the south coast of wales. gusts of 50, 60, 70 mph as we start friday morning with some outbreaks of heavy and persistent rain. that rain really lingering through the day across the southwest of england,
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even as the winds slowly ease for the southeast of england, east anglia, the midlands, parts of wales will see some hefty showers. northern england and eastern scotland, quite cloudy with a bit of rain at times. some bright skies for western scotland and northern ireland, but with some showers as well. not quite as warm as it was on thursday — generally 8—13 celsius. and then, as we head through friday night, well, this band of rain stays quite stubbornly across western parts of the uk, a lot of cloud filtering into eastern eastern areas as well. not a particularly cold night, temperatures generally between 3—9 celsius. so, into saturday, quite a messy weather picture. this area of low pressure's still fairly close by. a couple of different weather systems bringing a focus for some outbreaks of rain. we will have this band of rain likely to affect parts of northern ireland, wales and the south of england as we go through saturday. further east, a lot of clouds, some spots of rain with that and quite a brisk breeze, meaning that for parts of eastern scotland and northeast england, it will feel really rather cool, in fact, quite chilly.
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and even further inland and further west, it is going to be cooler than it has been. now, as we get into the second half of the weekend, low low pressure loses its influence and high its influence and high pressure starts to build, and that means we'll have lighter winds for the most part on sunday, a little bit breezy in the southeast corner. there should also be less cloud and more in the way of sunshine. and aside from a few showers, most places will be dry, but still a little cooler than it has been — highs of 9—12 celsius.
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welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore. i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines — donald trump becomes the first former us president to face criminal charges. he's indicted after a probe into money paid to an adult entertainer. the former leader will be charged in new york over alleged hush money given to stormy daniels just before the 2016 presidential election. mr trump, who's running to be president again in 2024, has called the charges a "political persecution" and "election interference" at the highest level in history. we'll have the latest on president trump's criminal indictment. also on this edition of newsday — the oscar—winning actress gwyneth paltrow has won a us lawsuit after being sued over a skiing collision in utah seven years ago.

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