this is bbc news. the headlines: authorities in the us are assessing the damage caused by severe storms and tornadoes across states in the south and midwest. at least 21 people in six states have been confirmed dead. tennessee, arkansas and illinois were hardest hit. more than 100,000 israelis have been protesting againstjudicial reforms for the 13th week in a row. they gathered despite a pause in the process announced earlier this week. in tel aviv, there were scuffles between protesters and counter—demonstrators. ukraine has condemned russia's assumption of the rotating presidency of the un security council as a "slap in the face to the international community". ukraine's foreign minister urged council members to thwart any russian attempts to abuse the position. the presidency is largely ceremonial although it

oversees the agenda. uproar as russia takes over the presidency of the un security council. ukraine calls it a slap in the face. now on bbc news, the arts interviews: fenton bailey. 0n today's media show, one of the pioneers of reality tv. hello, hello, hello! fenton bailey's behind rupaul�*s drag race, described by time magazine as "one of the most influential reality tv shows of all time". the company he founded, world of wonder, has made documentaries about andy warhol, britney spears, monica lewinsky over the years, about police brutality in la, and about the lgbt—supporting tv evangelist tammy faye. they also brought the cult comedy duo adam and joe to channel 4.

fenton, hello, and i wonder whetherfor you, there is a thread that connects all those incredible and different interviewees and programmes? the first thing that connects it all is just things randy and ifound ourselves interested in. that's your partner? yeah, randy, at world of wonder, we founded the company together. but then, i think the other thing that connects it is the sense of maybe, maybe they're all, to some extent, outsiders. adam and joe, for example, were just a couple of kids making videos in their bedroom — and this was sort of before youtube — but they were so brilliant. and i think it's always, often, people who arejudged or dismissed, or considered in some way that they exist on the margins — whether it's in terms of respect orjust in terms of visibility — that we're drawn to. because often, those stories are fascinating and compelling and need to be heard. you and your company have been at the forefront of what's really been a tv revolution.

kind of almost unseen or unacknowledged, tv has totally transformed our lives. and ifound that, actually, it's the least respected genres in what i think is a pretty unrespected medium, television, that have had the most impact — like commercials and infomercials and televangelism and home shopping and public—access tv, which is basically do—it—yourself television. and we're going to come back to all of that, but i wanted to talk to you first about rupaul�*s drag race, because you're probably best known for that. it's a hugely successful show that's become, you know, a franchise, an empire. just for people who might not have watched it, just sum it up, how it works. it's a competition show to find the next drag superstar, and that's how it began. so it's a reality competition elimination show. but drag race, really, is a parody. at once, a celebration and a send—up of all other reality competition shows.

we put it all in the pot. it's kind of like a drag queen, really. we slap it all on, and out comes this show, rupaul�*s drag race. and of course, rupaul is a huge, you know, without rupaul, there would be no drag race. randy and i knew rupaulfor... we've known him for a long time, and we managed him early on in his career. and we sat down with him once and said, "you know, we really should do a show with you". and it was tom campbell, our chief creative officer, who said, "you know you should really do — what about a reality competition show?", and ru was like, "no, i will do anything but a reality competition show". so off we went and followed up lots of different ideas and pitched them to him, and he said, "you know what? we should do a reality competition show". and that's rupaul�*s drag race. there it is. and it debuted pretty quietly in 2009... it did. ..on the lgbtq+—focused logo tv network. mm. now the original us show has produced versions in europe,

asia, australia — i think ten countries, in total. and you even have a las vegas residency. did you always know it would go mainstream? well, you know, i would love to say yes, of course, but the truthful answer is, no. but randy and i always loved drag, and we always felt that drag was this... not marginalised, but it existed in underground clubs and it existed on the margins. and yet, here was this amazing celebration and satire of popular culture and celebrity. we never really saw drag in terms of gender. we saw it as this very punk kind of thing that at once made fun of and celebrated. . . craziness. so, ridiculously long answer to your question — no, but yes, you know, we always hoped it would be. and, what, season 15 us... and, of course, the bbc�*s uk version. of course, of course. yes. and we'll talk about that. yeah.

i mean, one of my colleagues actually said that "drag race is to gay men what sport is to straight men". he said, it's a huge part of the culture, you know, especially in america. you know, gay bars have rupaul videos on their screens, people hold watch parties, people talk about the show a lot. but of course, it's also crossed boundaries, as you talk about. so how do you sum up its appeal? why is it so popular? i go back to something ru said, "you're born naked and the rest is drag". and it's such an easy thing to say, and you think, "oh, well, that's funny, that's cute". but actually, it's true. it's profoundly true. and everything we put on is some kind of statement about our identity, or maybe a fantasy about who we wish we were. and so, really, drag is universal in its appeal. and i totally understand that it's emerged from our lgbtq community, but i think there's been a misperception that because of that, perhaps it's niche and perhaps it's only of interest to lgbtq+, but it's not. yeah, and i mentioned the programme spin—offs. we were talking about the bbc.

you know, drag race uk is currently gearing up for its fifth season on the bbc. and in your book, you describe getting drag race to the uk as the "holy grail". i always felt, you know, my life has been profoundly changed by watching shows like are you being served?, top of the pops. how did they change your life, when you say that? well, i think that it was... 0n british tv, there was just this sense of camp that ijust completely identified with, before i even knew really what it was, and that rich tradition. i mean, also, drag has been, you know, you've got danny la rue, you've got benny hill, you've got kenny everett. i mean, you have these amazing entertainment icons who've been fully out there, just very sort of flamboyant and camp, and i think really profoundly important artists. and so, having that, i always wanted drag race to be here in the uk.

and i tell you no lie, i went to every network repeatedly until they were like, "please, don't come round here trying to sell that show again". so, it did take a long time? oh, yes. everyone said no many, many times. and... 0ver how many years? 0ver about six years. and as we started collecting emmys and awards, i would say, "now look at the show. what about this, what about that?" "yeah, but...", you know? but i always, i always believed, and i know michelle visage — who's co—host with ru — she always believed in the show too because, you know, there's nothing... there's nothing so great as british drag. is it something about britain that we have this tradition of pantomime that means we respond to it in a different way from the americans? we do. we definitely do have that panto tradition, the sort of widow twankey and the back of the horse. and i mean, it's fabulous, you know? and there is also, i suppose, a puritanism in america. oh, yes! i mean, you talk about that,

actually, you talk about that in terms of tammy faye. you know, obviously, there was this oscar—winning movie about her... mm. ..but you made the original documentary as well, and you're really interesting about that. have you faced that kind of puritanism when it comes to rupaul�*s drag race in the states? specifically, not so much, but it's obviously something that does have the nation, to some degree, in its grip. i do think that the sort of, this recent trend of sort of extreme right—wing trumpism thing, it actually is puritanism, and it is a sort of inability to live and let live, an insistence that there is a certain kind of morality, a desire to be essentially controlling about the lives of others. and, of course, what we've seen in american politics with trump and his like is incredible hypocrisy, so that they espouse these bonkers ideas that they don't even live by themselves. i suppose what it is,

i thought about it a lot, i think that in increasingly complicated times — which, that's where we live — people have a yearn to turn the clock back and to go back to a simpler time. you know, men should be men and women should be women, and the wife should stay in the home. and, you know, all this sort of gender hysteria, it all comes from a desire to turn the clock back and not recognise the fundamental diversity of life itself. and within the context of that, though, you have this hugely successful programme, award—winning across the world, do you see it as a barometer for changing attitudes? i do. i don't think drag race is a political show, ostensibly, but i do think as a show that represents inclusion and diversity and that believes that you can be the fantasy of your imagination and be yourself and express yourself, i do think that in a way, it becomes the sharp end of the resistance.

i mean, it's fairly obvious to say, without rupaul, there wouldn't be rupaul�*s drag race. but i mean, i think you and your partner, randy barbato, had come across rupaul and worked with rupaulfor a long time before this show. did you always realise that rupaul was a star? oh, yeah. you know, like, we go about our lives and life is great. and then, every now and then, something incredible happens and you realise that something momentous has happened. and for me, it was like meeting ru, because there was no question in my mind, or randy's mind, that he was a star. and you know what? there was no question in ru's mind. i mean, he knew he was a star. and we often laugh that it was just really about waiting for the world to catch up. 0k. well, let's go back to the beginning. as you said, you grew up in the uk. you were influenced, as you said, by programmes like are you being served?, but you talk in the book

about your parents stopping you watching batman when you were six. why was that? well, you know, this was a long time ago, and i think colour tvs were quite new. i mean, i'm quite old, at this point. so... and ijust remember, it was so brightly coloured. and i think i became sort of overexcited. imean... and it seemed that i became a disruptive child after watching batman! 0verexcited by the colours and the clothes... all the "barn!" and "pow!", and they were prancing around in capes. and liberace — oh, my gosh, liberace was a villain! and the whole thing was just ridiculous and camp. again, i didn't understand what it was, but something about it was like, "oh, wherever this is made, i want to go to that place". and did that shape the kind of programmes you wanted to make? i think it must have done,

because i always gravitated to camp things. magpies go to bright and shiny objects. for me, something camp is a bright and shiny object. and were the first shows you pitched to channel 4 collections of shiny things, do you think? yeah, the first show was a show called manhattan cable. and in the states... unlike british tv, in the states, local networks had to provide channels for anyone who wanted to have their own tv show. so they wouldn't get any money, but if they wanted to make a tv show, they would have to air it. and so, eccentric people, ordinary people, real people made their own shows. and these shows were very... because they had no money, they were really kind of punk and anarchic. and in some ways, they were bad tv, but in other ways, they were incredible tv because they weren't modulated and edited and they weren't professional. they were very kind of, very punk.

and so, ourfirst idea was a show that highlighted, compiled clips of these public—access shows. they weren't restricted by a remit to educate and entertain. they were just unto themselves. and did you see... you mentioned educate and entertain — that's obviously part of the sort of reithian bbc values. yeah. did you have a problem with them? i think you said that you thought it was a bit patronising, or very patronising. well, i do think it's patronising, to the extent that there was no opportunity for anything else. and i do think there was a fear in britain that television was this anarchic force that needed to be controlled, for the good of the people. and for better or worse, in america, they didn't look at it that way, and they were fine with — anyone who wants to be on tv can be on tv. i'm sure there's pluses and minuses in both. but you brought that to the uk. you pitched that idea of putting ordinary people on tv. yeah, and, erm, channel 4 said yes. it was a golden period

because channel 4 had been set up specifically to give voice to minorities and to be a showcase for innovative television, so it was a unique opportunity. and you were bringing it from the us. i mean, you write about living in new york in the 1980s, and it's as if the origins of reality tv, that world were everywhere and, not least, through andy warhol's influence. i mean, how much did he anticipate the appeal of reality tv, do you think? oh, my gosh. i mean, i think andy warhol anticipated pretty much everything that surrounds us now. but interestingly, his big passion was tv. i mean, he always had the tv on. he said it was a friend, it kept him company. and yet, he never really had success with tv. but towards the end of his life, he made a tv and i didn't realise this for a long time, but he started off as a public access show. no—one would commission his show, so he did it

on public access. and then, lucky for him, mtv launched and then mtv bought the show, but he started out on public access. and then, very sadly, you know, he died, so he never really realised his tv dreams. because he would've loved big brother, you know? he would've loved drag race. he'd have been a greatjudge. you know, i think the factory, in many ways, was like a preliminary cast of rupaul�*s drag race, so, you know, he gathered around him gay people and trans people and misfits and all the sort of flotsam and jetsam, they hung out at the factory and i think the factory very much was a kind of early version of big brother, so he would've just loved the whole look and feel of it. you, personally — forget andy warhol for a second — you know, you were behind, you and your partner, randy barbato, were behind some pretty ground—breaking uk television,

like the adam and joe show. camcorders were the first time that the mass population could get their hands on the means of making their own tv. do you think that was the start of reality tv? you know what? i do. i think that there was a show in america on pbs, i think it was called the family with the louds, and that was a documentary series about a family and it was just interesting that when the cameras were turned on that family — this was in, like, 1972 — and i know there was a uk version of it, too, and i can't quite remember which came first — but i felt that was one of the beginnings of reality tv. and then, i think another one was the rodney king beating in �*92, when the police were caught on camera beating up rodney king. and after that, police were put on trial, all because of that tape. all because it was caught on camera. it was on the news

around the world. and when the police were acquitted, lajust exploded in riots and for, like, several days, it was like a huge reality show. it was like the world had gone sort of television. and you had the same thing with oj, when he fled down the freeway from — well, pursued by cameras and helicopters and everything. that was another kind of weirdly, mmm, life as a reality show, i suppose. and after rodney king's beating, you gave out cameras to people in south central la. mmm. was that transforming the way — that technology was transforming the way you could tell stories, or the stories that were getting on tv? it was. but to be honest, it was — that idea came from the bbc. the bbc community programme unit.

jeremy gibson and robin gutch was doing a series that was very successful in the uk called video diaries and people would be given a video camera and tell their story, and when the la riots happened, and because they had happened because of this tape, this rodney king tape, randy and i thought, "well, what if we did a kind of mass "video diary exercise, where we gave cameras "to lots of different people in la to tell their stories?" so, really, it was an idea that began with it — and that actually run on the bbc. it was called la stories. la stories, yes. you know, you left the uk for america, as you mentioned, and you went to film school in america, in new york. i did an interview with donna langley, who's the chairman of universal pictures, last year, and she was saying she very much felt — at about the same age as you, i think — that she needed to leave britain to make a success of herself and to, you know, do the things she wanted to do. did you feel the same way? idid. i felt that... i didn't completely understand it at the time because when i was at

university, i had no idea, really, what i wanted to do. and i was reading english, which, you know, is the perfect way to sort of avoid figuring out that kind of stuff. and i was really, really ridiculously lucky that i got this fellowship that allowed me to go to film school. but it was, for me, i think, i have to own the fact that i think i was gay and yes, there's lots of gay people in britain and there is a place for us and it's not illegal but at the same time, ijust felt i would never really be myself, or necessarily accepted. why do you think that was? i don't know. i mean, why was america offering it? well, because america was this anything—goes—place and has traditionally been seen as this place where you can kind of leave your past behind and reinvent yourself. and it was where andy warhol

was, and it was where they made batman & robin, and i saw this film on tv — made—for—tv movie — the naked civil servant, and john hurt played quentin crisp — this incredibly flamboyant, out—there, gay character, who i'd never heard of but was just so mesmerised by this performance. and at the end of it, he's almost beaten up by some youths in the park and he says, erm, he says something like, "you can't touch me. "i am one of the stately homos of england", and they're just standing round, gobsmacked. you know, they don't even throw a punch at him. and he just walks off, and you learn that he moved to america. and ijust remember watching that and thinking, "that's "what i'm going to do". not sure i'm as flamboyant as quentin crisp, but... i mean, he was — quentin crisp was amazing and a genius —

but i just felt that i would be able to be myself in the states. did you ever meet him? i did, yes — several times, actually — and he was fabulous. he was very oracular. he would always make pronouncements, you know? he said, "if, at first, you don't succeed, failure may "be your style". that's very good! i thought that was pretty good, right? ijust wonder, you know, as we wrap up, what is next for you? you know, are there places, for example, you'd still like to take drag race, or do you think there's a chance it could be reaching saturation point? no, because i think, erm... look, i think drag is perfect for television. it's about big impact on the small screen. and our good fortune, to some extent, has been the fact that drag just wasn't on tv before then. i believe drag queens are the future, in the sense that they're like pop stars in the �*70s. you know, i grew up watching top of the pops, and ifeel

that today's drag queens are very much like the gods of glitter rock in the �*70s. and i think there's, you know, room for — well, it's good to see that they're on tv and also having hit records and in plays and in movies and i would like to see a drag race in every country. do you feel you have brought about cultural change, change to society, through that programme? i think the queens have brought about great cultural change because they have shown that you can be yourself, you can be — you can create this image of yourself and you can do great things, you can inspire other people. and i think that that message is a great one for kids to hear growing up, knowing that they don't have to be this or be that. that, really, they can be themselves. and that hopefully, we are just learning to be more — i hate the word "tolerate"

because nobody wants to be tolerated — we should be able to embrace everybody and enjoy everybody for their uniqueness and their difference, rather than insisting that they should be the same. fenton, that is a very uplifting moment to end this. thank you so much. thank you. hello. it was revealed by the met office that march just gone was very wet month — in fact, the wettest for england since 1981. now, as we head into the start of april, it looks like high pressure will be the dominant force, bringing a lot of dry and bright weather, certainly for part two of the weekend and into much of the first working week of april as well. and quite promising, i think, in the run—up to the easter weekend, too, so keep watching. so, high pressure building in overhead for part two of the weekend. we lose those weather fronts —

they fizzle out, the cloud melts away. for most of us into the afternoon, it'll be bright. plenty of sunshine around. still maybe just one or two showers across the northern half of scotland. still quite cool along north sea coasts with an onshore breeze but feeling quite pleasant further west in the sunshine — highs of around 13 degrees. now, as we head through sunday night though under clear skies with light winds, it's going to be the recipe for a chilly night to come — in fact, a touch of frost pretty much anywhere, certainly, out of towns and cities. it is going to be a really cold start to monday morning. that's because high pressure dominates the scene. again, light winds, largely clear skies, so a cold, frosty start to monday. plenty of bright, sunny weather through the morning once any mist and fog clears away and winds are coming in from the south—east so, again, a little bit cooler around some southern and certainly eastern coasts but lots of sunshine, including much of central and northern scotland, too. temperatures responding after that chilly start — we could be up to around 12 or 13 degrees in the warmest spots but like i mentioned,

cooler along the north sea coasts. subtle changes into tuesday. high pressure continues to bring a lot of fine, dry weather but it starts to retreat a little bit towards the south—east. that will allow these weather fronts to push into scotland and northern ireland. more breeze, more cloud, maybe some splashes of rain later in the day. we could start to see that cloud just feeding into northern western england and wales as well but i think the south—east quadrant tending to stay dry, bright with some sunshine. but again, we could be up to 13 or 1a degrees, so pretty mild. tending to be more unsettled, i think, around the middle parts of the week. these more substantial weather fronts make inroads across scotland and northern ireland, so it could be quite wet, quite windy here throughout the day on wednesday. could see some rain getting into northern and western england and wales, maybe a bit more cloud than the south—east, but i think generally, the south—east corner, once again, closer to high pressure, will stay dry. coming up to 1a, maybe 15 degrees in the warmest spots. i think these weather fronts will be fairly short—lived on thursday.

it looks like they will fizzle out as high pressure starts to build in once again, so i think it will leave a legacy of cloud on thursday. there could be the odd shower or light spot of drizzle mixed in there but the winds will be turning lighter and i think the clouds will start to break up later in the day, so some bright spells around and again, pretty mild — the low to mid teens. as we move towards the end of the week and head into the easter weekend, it looks like high pressure wants to rebuild back in but we could be drawing in an easterly or south—easterly wind which could just tap into something a little bit chillier for the easter weekend. you can see those blue hues just moving across the country on that east—south—easterly breeze around the area of high pressure. so, it does look like, after a bit of a damp start to the middle part of the week, towards the end of the week and the easter weekend it looks like high pressure will bring more in the way of sunshine but there may be a nip in the air here, the air

a little bit cool at times, but feeling pleasant in the strong april sunshine.

good morning, welcome to breakfast with ben boulos and tina daheley. 0ur headlines today: three british men are being held by the taliban in afghanistan. the foreign office says it's working hard to make contact with them. dozens of school leaders, representing hundreds of academies, call for a rethink about how 0fsted carries out inspections. extra ferries sailed overnight to clear the backlog at dover, where some travellers waited up to 1a hours. officials hope services will be back to normal by midday. solid but not spectacular.

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