reporters in the there will be reporters in the court. they will not be allowed to have phones or anything like that so they will have pens and pencils and paper to write down receding. and i promise you you will see in the coming hours, a detailed blow—by—blow account of those minutes that take place in the courtroom. every single piece of body language and every word will be analysed to the nth degree. no shortage of detail about what will happen. shortage of detail about what will ha . en. ,., , shortage of detail about what will ha en. , ., shortage of detail about what will hauen. , ., ., shortage of detail about what will ha en. , ., ., “ shortage of detail about what will hauen. ., ., ~ happen. gary, for now think is so much for bringing _ happen. gary, for now think is so much for bringing us _ happen. gary, for now think is so much for bringing us up - happen. gary, for now think is so much for bringing us up to - happen. gary, for now think is so much for bringing us up to date l happen. gary, for now think is so l much for bringing us up to date on how things are developing outside that courthouse. let's go live down to washington and speak with bill kristol. he had jobs in the ministration of reagan and the first george bush presidency and director of the local groups to its funding democracy to stop think he was always forjoining us here on the programme. we keep saying that it is a new chapter in us history saying it's historic, that this is

unprecedented, but ijust want it's historic, that this is unprecedented, but i just want you to pause for a moment as we think about the fact that an american president has been indicted and is currently under arrest in lower manhattan in the courthouse. a new cha ter in manhattan in the courthouse. a new chapter in the _ manhattan in the courthouse. a new chapter in the term _ manhattan in the courthouse. a new chapter in the term presidency - manhattan in the courthouse. a new chapter in the term presidency a - manhattan in the courthouse. ii’ chapter in the term presidency a new chapter in the term presidency a new chapter in american history. in this first of what would be several indictments of donald trump this year. indictments of donald trump this ear. ., ., ~ ,._ year. throughout america's history, for more than _ year. throughout america's history, for more than two _ year. throughout america's history, for more than two centuries, - for more than two centuries, american presidents have been shielded from indictment. eaten american presidents have been shielded from indictment. even after leavin: shielded from indictment. even after leaving office — shielded from indictment. even after leaving office even _ shielded from indictment. even after leaving office even though _ shielded from indictment. even after leaving office even though in - leaving office even though in principle they are citizens who could get a parking ticket or arrested for anything as we call could be. most of them have been law

abiding enough that anyone would go to the trouble of checking them down and if there were violations of tax lowering thing like that. my colleague said early this morning it is historic and people can be surprised by it and a lots of us were against trumping the beginning this is why we were against him. the man for years has been on the dodgy side of the law and ethics and has managed to avoid accountability amazingly as a businessman and as a political leader. now, it may be the legal accountability begins. we will see because others of the country is with them and it's not clear with the court. the case could get turnout it could go to trial and he be acquitted with the jury. we will see what would happen with other indictments. it could hurt him or

have been politically. these are, as you say, uncharted workers. the? have been politically. these are, as you say, uncharted workers. they are uncharted workers _ you say, uncharted workers. they are uncharted workers and _ you say, uncharted workers. they are uncharted workers and the _ you say, uncharted workers. they are uncharted workers and the question | uncharted workers and the question is where leave the republican party moving forward. he is at present the front runner and republicans have come out and defended him. for now he is the strongest _ come out and defended him. for now he is the strongest figure _ come out and defended him. for now he is the strongest figure in - come out and defended him. for now he is the strongest figure in the - he is the strongest figure in the party and the effectively had to defend them. they couldn't see can you imagine donald trump doing something like this? because we know he did at least of the underlying actions. we know there was a relationship with the adult movie actress and the payment of the hush money. we don't know exactly whether the records of that were legal or illegal in terms of finance law and other state laws but no one is really saying oh my god, donald trump couldn't do that. no one is even saying i'm confident he's innocent because they haven't seen

the evidence at indictment yet but what they're saying this is a political attack on him and it's terrible but it shows how deep, how deeply into should be art i am and how much she is in their pockets knowing that he's in the state they still depend on them. i had knowing that he's in the state they still depend on them.— still depend on them. i had a republican — still depend on them. i had a republican strategist - still depend on them. i had a republican strategist on - still depend on them. i had a republican strategist on the | republican strategist on the programme earlier who basically said this is the end of donald trump. there are others who argue members of the political class of said this over and over again and somehow he has always landed on his feet again. he's a very effective demigod and people have underestimated that side of him since the beginning. we've had not too many demagogues but not as national or present as donald trump. in as national or present as donald trum -. ., , as national or present as donald trum. . , as national or present as donald trum. ., , ., trump. in many ways, if you look at american history, _ trump. in many ways, if you look at american history, presidents- trump. in many ways, if you look at american history, presidents have l american history, presidents have been put on a pedestal. can you hear

me bill? i don't think bill can hear us at the moment we will try and reestablish that connection but let's have a look at these life pictures outside the courthouse. where earlier we sought donald trump motorcade arrive at the courthouse of lower manhattan. then we sought donald trump arrive and step outside the motorcade from his vehicle and waved to some of his supporters outside the courthouse. there also and site trump processors who are there as well. he didn't comment or make any remarks to the media. there was speculation that he may speak to the press i had of walking into the courthouse and there is also speculation that once he emerges

from inside the courthouse, there is suggestion that he will come out and is keen to speak the media, but there is uncertainty. there aren't any cameras out the courthouse but there are some photographers. we don't know whether we'll speak to the press are not once he comes out of the courthouse but he would head back to the airport and he is expected to head to mar a lago where he is scheduled to make a public appearance and speak to his supporters this evening. so, lots of developments there. lots of things going on but let's bring in. ronan farrow whojoins us going on but let's bring in. ronan farrow who joins us live. we joined now from new york by ronan farrow, contributing writer to the new yorker. he's done a number of extraordinary investigations into donald trump. ronan, thank you forjoining us on

the programme. we have millions of viewers around the world trying to make sense of what is going on in the united states. we keep saying this is a new chapter and historic moment. i want our audiences to get a better sense of your investigations and if you can take us back to basics on what you did and what you found and the sort of work you did. aha, and what you found and the sort of work you did-— work you did. a number of outlets re orted work you did. a number of outlets reported on _ work you did. a number of outlets reported on this _ work you did. a number of outlets reported on this idea _ work you did. a number of outlets reported on this idea that - work you did. a number of outlets reported on this idea that donald l reported on this idea that donald trump had a pattern of hush payments. monetary payments to conceal things that were unflattering to him. one of the foremost examples is the one that as far as we are wearing out, the fullest of charges hasn't been unsealed, but from what we know the one is at the centre of this case which is a payment from his attorney michael cohen, two stormy day adult film actress who fired for a long time in traffic in a story that she

had slept with the former president. might reporting it was on the question which was central to the case is whether to not as a pattern. i look into donald trump relationship with the national enquirer, a tabloid magazine and when i was reporting on this site uncovered various transactions the national enquirer had undertaken on the nostrums we have. stories that were in flux and into donald trump and burying them. when i was doing the reporting what the folks at ami and around trump were denying the any elect to relate related intent. and they were even denying that some of this happen. subsequent to that, that became the basis for federal proceedings. prosecutors struck an agreement with the head of mi and his colleagues and in that agreement

they said they would not be prosecuted but however they did admits to essentially all that i just described. this is important for what's happening today because the grand jury in manhattan has heard from the folks at ami, has heard from the folks at ami, has heard from the folks at ami, has heard from david packer, has heard detailed evidence about a pattern of payments included one to karen mcdougall a former playboy model who i interviewed at length and it was the basis of some of my stories. ami costs and kids, purchased her story to conceal it. she also had a relationship with donald trump. what's his interest in, there is a central charge regarding stormy daniels, we don't know if they will charge on the other transactions related to ami but we do know that this set of prosecutors is bringing in all of that information about ami

and a wider pattern of payments. why is that important? to bolster their case it would have to establish that these payments were just personal in nature. in new york the arguments they would have to advance legally is untested. they will have to cover two different charges. one relates to bad book—keeping which is only a misdemeanor and elevated to a felony and more serious charge, they would have to introduce the idea that this was a misdemeanor intended to commit a second crime in this case violating campaign finance law and paying off someone i miss living in it in order to have any electoral effect. the fact that they are able to gain the evidence of the payments are karen mcdougall and the witnesses from ami, who we already know, like my look michael cohen, the nostrums former that that was the nostrums former that that was the scheme. these were catch and kill payments during an election six

season. the fact that jurors can hear from them and hear these points made means prosecutors have a much stronger case at their disposal and a much stronger ability to establish a much stronger ability to establish a pattern of conduct and intent. ronan, in terms of ami, the national enquirer, david packer, the question is why would they do it? why would they go through the idea of this publication looking for damage and scurries and trying to kill them? it's a complicated question to answer even for some of the sources deep inside amy who were involved in brokering these transactions. one piece of context to know is that this practice of catching and killing stories and using them as a bartering chip, either collaborating with the public eager to conceal something or holding something over that public figure, that is an old playbook in the american tabloid world. it is something ami had done

before and they had relationships with this kind of power balance built into them with a number of public figures. with donald trump specifically, there was a relationship between donald trump and david packer and what people are on packer told me is that hejust along with his consiglio mary, dylan however, liked the perks of the relationship. like the fact they were close to someone who had money and power and a certain kind of prominence and when they, as we now know you did, as they admitted to in the federal proceedings where ami struck a non—prosecution agreement with the prosecutors, when they sat down, the ami folks and donald trump, during election season and came to an agreement that they would help to conceal things during the election, specifically with this intent to influence the election, there was an extra element at play

which was that ami was fiscally in bad shape. the national enquirer was in a state where it needed a golden parachute and the individuals at the inquirer might be seeking a way out. they were starting to realise that donald trump was a serious political prospects and so it was the right time to strike this kind of secret deal where potentially those relationships could become much more important once donald trump was in office. ., ., ., ., ., ., office. ronan i want to ask about whether you _ office. ronan i want to ask about whether you received _ office. ronan i want to ask about whether you received any - office. ronan i want to ask about whether you received any sort i office. ronan i want to ask about whether you received any sort of| whether you received any sort of pressure or fence the weight of this. obviously reporting something like this, and you do other investigations, did you feel any kind of pressure on you? fine investigations, did you feel any kind of pressure on you? one of the thins that kind of pressure on you? one of the things that i — kind of pressure on you? one of the things that i think— kind of pressure on you? one of the things that i think insulated - kind of pressure on you? one of the things that i think insulated the - things that i think insulated the ami folks and the national enquirer specifically from syria screws in the in the press were so long, is that they play really dirty. they are famous for these tactics of trying to dig up dirt on people and

use that dirt as a cultural to hold it over people. and what i was reporting on ami, unveiling this pattern that ultimately did get them because in front of prosecutors, they came after me in a very full of and i was in, orange text villain in the pages of the national enquirer for a moment in a way that is totally bizarre and disproportionate for any reports are but clearly was retaliatory as far as i can see it. as far as people inside the national inquiry told me. that is a hard thing for any reports or to go through and i think thanks for the work of the wall streetjournal and what we published at the new yorker, there is a much greater understanding of those patterns and the fact that when that retaliation comes against anyone who exposes those patterns it is essentially what it looks like. 50. those patterns it is essentially what it looks like.— those patterns it is essentially what it looks like. so, here we are

toda . what it looks like. so, here we are today- this — what it looks like. so, here we are today- this is _ what it looks like. so, here we are today. this is a _ what it looks like. so, here we are today. this is a moment _ what it looks like. so, here we are today. this is a moment in - what it looks like. so, here we are i today. this is a moment in american history, donald trump making history yet again. we are hearing from our correspondent outside the courthouse who said donald trump is currently being processed in court and is awaiting arraignment. essentially, he is currently arrested. just your reactions all of this. it’s he is currently arrested. just your reactions all of this.— reactions all of this. it's an extraordinary _ reactions all of this. it's an extraordinary turn - reactions all of this. it's an extraordinary turn of - reactions all of this. it's an l extraordinary turn of events. reactions all of this. it's an - extraordinary turn of events. in a way it's a long time coming because a number of prosecutors and das are building cases against donald trump around the united states. what's surprising about this moment is that this is actually one of the less serious of those cases. the reporting, obviously, was something that was important. it has been the basis for a number of criminal investigations but even if this prosecutor in manhattan is able to meet this case about donald trump

and the harsh payment to stormy daniels. we're looking at a relatively small maximum sentence on the order of three or four years if i maximum purchase and sins could be applied. that is if they are able to prevail in this somewhat novel and duct taped together arguments to get a felony conviction. when that is all said and done, this is not a situation where there is mandatory jail time and even the maximum genzyme option is minimal. there are other cases against donald trump that i mentioned that seem, on the face, have a more robust fact pattern or more obvious legal arguments behind them which could result in more serious sentences. it is an extraordinary turn in american history to see a person in perp walks in this way and it seems like every dup of care has been taken so

far by authorities in new york to not make expectable and play into what will doubtless be a fundraising effort by donald trump and his associates of the back of this. he is already set to speak at mar a lago today and his campaign have already claimed, i believe the moment number sense of something like 7 million is their claim off the back of this event and news cycle around the arrest. there's a lot of understanding on the part of officials in new york that this could play into his hand. that it could play into his hand. that it could become respectable and yes, there is a merely outside of the courthouse and they are doing their best to take it on board. despite the consequence of this moment, the fact that it is a big turning point in american history and american legal history, it isn't the most serious of cases. ultimately, the function this may play that is most consequential for donald trump

future is to send a green light signal to others working on other cases. there's a first mover now and a lot of eyes in the legal community will be watching how this plays out and i imagine that in some of those other cases, there would be a feeling that they can go at this absent some of those surrounding political concerns that have caused some reticence in the past for prosecutors. some reticence in the past for prosecutors— some reticence in the past for rosecutors. . , ., ., ., prosecutors. that is a thing, ronan. we don't know _ prosecutors. that is a thing, ronan. we don't know how _ prosecutors. that is a thing, ronan. we don't know how many _ prosecutors. that is a thing, ronan. we don't know how many friends . prosecutors. that is a thing, ronan. we don't know how many friends he j we don't know how many friends he would have to defend himself on. this is essentially, not the only scenario. , ., �* , this is essentially, not the only scenario. , . �*, , scenario. yep, that's exactly right. we also should _ scenario. yep, that's exactly right. we also should point _ scenario. yep, that's exactly right. we also should point out _ scenario. yep, that's exactly right. we also should point out we - scenario. yep, that's exactly right. we also should point out we are i we also should point out we are going on what's being reported about this indictment. as we speak, this arraignment is playing out and very soon we are going to be able to see and absorb and process the full list of charges associated with this. what we are hearing is that it's quite voluminous, and it would be

quite voluminous, and it would be quite explosive statements of the facts and a long list of charges presented. one interesting wrinkle in here in addition to the fact that jurors have heard details information about the current mcdougall transaction and the relationship with mi, we know the judge cited in this case also worked in a separate case on the trump organisation and its business processes. i'm told by my sources that the da checked the box and in those cases are related and we'll see how much the da will pull into this case and it seems like it is quite expenses and i reserve the right to look at the list and say this is a lot stronger than i thought for some right now, the typical reaction i'm getting from prosecutors is that this is a long truck cased i'd in the ones being built against donald trump. ronan, did ou built against donald trump. ronan, did you think— built against donald trump. ronan, did you think you _ built against donald trump. ronan, did you think you would _ built against donald trump. ronan, did you think you would see - built against donald trump. ronan, did you think you would see the - did you think you would see the state consumer i get that question

surprisingly often. i state consumer i get that question surprisingly often.— surprisingly often. i don't think i ever was in _ surprisingly often. i don't think i ever was in it _ surprisingly often. i don't think i ever was in it when _ surprisingly often. i don't think i ever was in it when i _ surprisingly often. i don't think i ever was in it when i was - surprisingly often. i don't think i l ever was in it when i was going to reports in on donald trump. the fact is, he accrued enough scrutiny for potentially illegal activity during his term that it's not that surprising from a legal standpoint. and indeed from a political one. he is a big, juicy topic for prosecutors. people who care about the rule of law in america were quite mad at donald trump for clearly floating it during his time in office. in some ways, it's the least surprise and outcome of all. i just want to tell our viewers a little bit about what is coming up on the bb see news life page. the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, who is prosecuting donald trump, whojust bragg, who is prosecuting donald trump, who just seen walking out of the courtroom, and he was seen

reentering a few moments later. it's unclear whether he was remain in the room for the hearing, and if you does he'll be seated in the front row. we have lots of coverage on bbc life page. all of this is uncharted territory as you say and we still don't know a lot about what is in the indictment and what the charges are. . �* , the indictment and what the charges are. ., �*, , the indictment and what the charges are. my . the indictment and what the charges are. ., �*, y . ., are. that's exactly right. we would have to wait _ are. that's exactly right. we would have to wait and _ are. that's exactly right. we would have to wait and see _ are. that's exactly right. we would have to wait and see it _ are. that's exactly right. we would have to wait and see it would - are. that's exactly right. we would have to wait and see it would be i have to wait and see it would be very interesting to see the legal community absorb the case that has been put together here. here's the thing. alvin bragg knows it's a incredibly high—stakes case. it may be the most prominent case that he ever has contact with. he knows there's going to be a media circus around it and that his political and legal future hinges on around it and that his political and legalfuture hinges on its around it and that his political and legal future hinges on its outcome. this is a situation, a fact pattern, that federal prosecutors did not proceed with charges against donald

trump based on it's a fact pattern that indeed in manhattan, as in braggs predecessor predecessor did not proceed on the basis of it. he's aware of this context that it's a tough case to manage and it wasn't such low hanging fruit that other prosecutors who had contact with it immediately rushed out and did something about it. he had his team took their time and rebuilt the case around this after where it had been left where his predecessor left office and they decided to go for it. that's pretty consequential. for a prominent prosecutor like this, and a da in his position, there a lot of potential upside. this is going to this make something of a star of oven bag, but from a political caucus standpoint, it is the high—risk moon or because of the things you just said it. it is an untested legal arguments that is likely to be made here. it seems

like, we will see when we look at the list of charges, there may have been something of a kitchen sink approach to pulling in as many things as possible, and they would have to see if it works. and be aware of the fact that if it does work and results in a felony conviction which is not going to be an easy fight, the maximum possible outcome isn't —— or is in some ways more symbolic than tremendously consequential to the trump future. and if it doesn't? and if it doesn't i think i've been bragg will pay is steep but it's a good price and donald trump who is a creature who knows how to fund raise off the worse type of political news cycle of himself would make a lot of hay out of it. we of himself would make a lot of hay out of it. ~ ., , ,., ., of himself would make a lot of hay outofit. ~ ., , ., , out of it. we have seen some of his tactics are — out of it. we have seen some of his tactics are ready, _ out of it. we have seen some of his tactics are ready, ronan, _ out of it. we have seen some of his tactics are ready, ronan, he - out of it. we have seen some of his tactics are ready, ronan, he puts. tactics are ready, ronan, he puts out a statements untruth social and

said he was headed to lower manhattan and saying it seems so surreal that he was going to be arrested and couldn't believe it was happening in america. he also said they are coming after me and they're also coming after the you and i'm standing in way. he also coming after the you and i'm standing in way.— standing in way. he has proved incredibly candy _ standing in way. he has proved incredibly candy at _ standing in way. he has proved incredibly candy at somehow, i standing in way. he has proved - incredibly candy at somehow, despite his lifestyle, being so distinct from the sum of his base that is plaintive, playing with a sense of solidarity. you hear of marjorie taylor green, this very far right georgia politician outside of the courthouse protesting, comparing donald trump to nelson montana at one point —— mandela. there been news anchors at different networks raising an eyebrow in incredulity. there a base around donald trump to

this day for who that place pretty well and it seems to be going over well if we are to believe the claims from tromso associates that he's already raised $7 million off the back of this.— back of this. thank you for your reporting, ronan, _ back of this. thank you for your reporting, ronan, and - back of this. thank you for your reporting, ronan, and thank i back of this. thank you for yourl reporting, ronan, and thank you back of this. thank you for your - reporting, ronan, and thank you for joining us on the programme. thank ou, it joining us on the programme. thank you. it was — joining us on the programme. thank you. it was a — joining us on the programme. thank you, it was a pleasure. _ we can now speak to lawrence lessig, the roy l. furman professor of law and leadership at the harvard law school — who formerly ran for the democratic white house nomination. thank you professor for joining thank you professorforjoining us here on the programme just speaking there to ronan farrow who had done a huge sort of investigation, an extraordinary investigation, into donald trump and that and kilt system as well as the hush money payments that were given. at this stage everyone is waiting to see what this case is about. yet. stage everyone is waiting to see what this case is about.- what this case is about. yet, i mean it's clear the — what this case is about. yet, i mean it's clear the case _ what this case is about. yet, i mean it's clear the case is _

what this case is about. yet, i mean it's clear the case is grounded - what this case is about. yet, i mean it's clear the case is grounded in - it's clear the case is grounded in fraud perpetrated in financial reporting. it's related obviously to the stormy daniels money but that fraud is an important crime inside of new york. and i think the real question is whether the presidents, the former president, is able to sustain a defence in the case of this claim as well as the other two likely major charges that will be brought against him bite both georgia and the special prosecutor. this is the first act in a very long, long play. this is the first act in a very long. long play-— this is the first act in a very lonra,lon -la. ., , long, long play. yet, and i suppose the other thing _ long, long play. yet, and i suppose the other thing everyone _ long, long play. yet, and i suppose the other thing everyone is - long, long play. yet, and i suppose the other thing everyone is sort - long, long play. yet, and i suppose the other thing everyone is sort of| the other thing everyone is sort of wondering and ronan sort of pointed to this, about the strength of the case. that she wouldn't have brought it if you didn't feel this case was strong enough. i it if you didn't feel this case was strong enough-— it if you didn't feel this case was strong enough. i think that's right. you remember _ strong enough. i think that's right. you remember when _ strong enough. i think that's right. you remember when alvin - strong enough. i think that's right. you remember when alvin bragg l strong enough. i think that's right. - you remember when alvin bragg came into office, there was what was presented to be an almost ready case to be brought against the president and alvin bragg backed away from it

right away and many people were sceptical of his commitments to prosecute given his decision to do that. the fact that he has reassembled a case and is pushing as strongly as he is indicates for me that he has solid grounds to prosecute. and this prosecution on its own is not necessarily as strong as the other cases but i think the important thing to keep in mind is that it's incredibly difficult to be adding defendants and be defended multiple charges at the same time. most of the jurisdictions at the same time. some of things you need to do yourself in one context might hurt yourself in another context. on top of that, his objective for running for president at the same time, you can see a nightmare at that donald trump is entering into. what we discussed on the programme in the last few hours is also the point that you don't need a clean criminal record to be able to hold the office of the president in the

us. ., �* , the office of the president in the us. that's right. the qualifications for the presidency, _ us. that's right. the qualifications for the presidency, donald - us. that's right. the qualifications for the presidency, donald trump, the formal constitutional qualifications he satisfies, he was born in the united states and is over 35 years old. those two are the critical ones and he has not been barred from office. many people will wonder if the critical mistake that people like mitch mcconnell make during the second impeachment trial with the decision not to try and convict them. if mitch mcconnell had thrown his weight behind the conviction in the second impeachment trial, the impeachment trial might be conviction. i trial, the impeachment trial might be conviction.— be conviction. i have to interrupt professor- _ be conviction. i have to interrupt professor- we — be conviction. i have to interrupt professor. we are _ be conviction. i have to interrupt professor. we are seeing - be conviction. i have to interrupt professor. we are seeing live . professor. we are seeing live pictures of donald trump coming out of the courthouse. let's just have a listen in. that's the secret service coming out with donald trump outside of the courthouse. he, from what we

understand, was processed there and he would be taken to the hallways and then elevators out of the courtroom and out again. you will, i believe, come out of the public chloe to walk out of the courtroom. professor, if you can talk us through from your understanding, what would've happened on the inside of that court room and the arraignment.— of that court room and the arrairnment. ., ., , arraignment. the arraignment is the -rocess arraignment. the arraignment is the process where _ arraignment. the arraignment is the process where the _ arraignment. the arraignment is the process where the defendant - arraignment. the arraignment is the process where the defendant is - arraignment. the arraignment is the l process where the defendant is made aware of the charges that have been brought by the grand jury. they would have waived all of the technicalities to read through them in order to process this as quickly as possible. and he would've made clear his position, which obviously, he's not going to plead guilty in any of this. and they would have tried to make sure that they could move as quickly as possible out of that process. i imagine it was

pretty uneventful inside. if it not uneventfully it was salute because he was playing on his powerful ability to generate political support by being outraged. there might be an incident that we here reported about but if his lawyers had control over him he would have been a quiet defendants in the process. we been a quiet defendants in the rocess. ~ . , been a quiet defendants in the rocess. ~ ., , ., ., , process. we are seeing more images of him and the _ process. we are seeing more images of him and the secret _ process. we are seeing more images of him and the secret service - of him and the secret service surrounded him there. from what you're saying, it would have been a quite quick and routine procedure. yes for him in this context especially with this court. so, it's formal but it's important in the process, especially because there is we were hearing though that he would have been fingerprinted obviously we did not see him being handcuffed. i think that was negotiated and i think that was negotiated and i think that was appropriate. i think many other people should not also be handcuffed. he will be fingerprinted, photographed taken of

him, will cf it is as famous as some