we'll have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. hello, welcome to global questions, we are in rio de janeiro in a country which like most countries these days is confronting many crises at home. ., ., ., . , home. few national policies have such — home. few national policies have such global— home. few national policies i have such global consequences as the fate of the amazon. is the well�*s largest tropical rainforest, covering much of northern brazil. it's under growing threat, from deforestation, large—scale farming and ranching and mining, newly elected president lula has pledged to undo the destruction under the former president bols. he speaks of tackling the plate in the largest indigenous territory. what happens in the amazon will

have a huge impact, and our climate crisis. can president lula rebuilt the protection programme or is the time running out to save the rainforest and the indigenous people that calls at home? that is global questions, brazil's fight for the amazon. you join us in this stunning setting here in rio dejaneiro and the son hasjust set here in rio dejaneiro and the son has just set on this spectacular city, we are joined here tonight with a terrific audience and a panel of experts

in individuals intensely engaged in these environmental questions. let me tell you who are panel is. festival, isabella, a former environment minister, still continuing to be a leading voice on climate issues. she received a un lifetime achievement award for champions of the earth in 2013. even her glasses are green. marina gracey, president of the brazilian business council for sustainable development, bringing together more than 100 leading business groups, you account for 50% of brazil's gdp, and more than1 million jobs, quite a lot of numbers. paloma 0livero elected by the un secretary general, and the us advisory group tasked to take global action on climate change, one of the new generation in brazil, generation in brazil, generation worldwide which is fighting for climate change,

and we are doing it here in brazil. we arejoined and we are doing it here in brazil. we are joined also and we are doing it here in brazil. we arejoined also by sharma, live from the northern part of the amazon, an activist from the indigenous people and defender of indigenous peoples. thank you forjoining us tonight. welcome to our panel. remember, wherever you join us, you can also follow the conversation on social media, time to take our first question, and it is with here. brazil is appearing on the global stage, brazil is appearing on the globalstage, committing brazil is appearing on the global stage, committing itself to the causes to mitigate the effects of the climate crisis. but what can be done to have permanent measures and laws for their protections and commitment to the environment that cannot be altered by economic interests and changes

in government?— in government? permanent measures, _ in government? permanent measures, you _ in government? permanent measures, you have - in government? permanent measures, you have talked| in government? permanent - measures, you have talked about this isabella, no matter who was in power, you have the institutions and the laws to protect the environment. what can be put in place now in this third term of president lula. it's very important for the new government to play based on the future, _ government to play based on the future, not the pastor. this is not a — future, not the pastor. this is not a picture of 2003, this is a picture _ not a picture of 2003, this is a picture of 2023, and it is very— a picture of 2023, and it is very important to understand how — very important to understand how the _ very important to understand how the government and president lula will play as a leader. _ president lula will play as a leader, national leader, to convince _ leader, national leader, to convince society, brazilian society, _ convince society, brazilian society, politicians, businessmen, embrace climate change. — businessmen, embrace climate change, against climate change, is a really— change, against climate change, is a really critical issue to address— is a really critical issue to address development and economic growth and social interest— economic growth and social interest in our country. lula is a — interest in our country. lula is a president that recommends

democracy, and that relies on society, — democracy, and that relies on society, with a global pack but also _ society, with a global pack but also a — society, with a global pack but also a national political pack to come _ also a national political pack to come together to promote development, the pursuit of democracy, and those who have stakeholders here, this is a huge — stakeholders here, this is a huge country, very important that— huge country, very important that we — huge country, very important that we can recognise our diversity— that we can recognise our diversity and difference to come _ diversity and difference to come together.— come together. you have sketched _ come together. you have sketched out _ come together. you have sketched out the - come together. you have l sketched out the contacts, come together. you have - sketched out the contacts, so i'm going to bring you in you say we do need permanent structures and laws, what would you advocate? i structures and laws, what would you advocate?— you advocate? i would really advocate _ you advocate? i would really advocate that _ you advocate? i would really advocate that isabella - you advocate? i would really| advocate that isabella talked about the best and then the future —— pastor. 0ne about the best and then the future —— pastor. one thing i think is really important is courage to look at the present, because right now, the best years together, we have been in the front of the fight for

climate justice, the front of the fight for climatejustice, and the front of the fight for climate justice, and this was impossible for us to hold up all the destruction that was happening in the last few years because we had strong laws, strong safe words.— because we had strong laws, strong safe words. what should lula do first, — strong safe words. what should lula do first, what _ strong safe words. what should lula do first, what would - strong safe words. what should lula do first, what would you i lula do first, what would you say to him?— lula do first, what would you sa to him? ., ., ~ , say to him? regulated markets, and protect _ say to him? regulated markets, and protect the _ say to him? regulated markets, and protect the conservation - and protect the conservation units that we still have that have not been destroyed, like the animal territory that has been invaded by 2000 illegal miners. ~ ., ~ ., ., miners. we will talk about that because president _ miners. we will talk about that because president lula - miners. we will talk about that because president lula did - miners. we will talk about that because president lula did he. because president lula did he make his first visit to the amazon, it was hoped he might delineate those territories, but he has not yet. let me bring in marina. two it's not a party agenda it's bring in marina. two it's not a party agenda its agenda, and that's how it is, we are a big country, as you said, the biggest forest, so we have a very clean mantra, so we are

very clean mantra, so we are more very clean mantra, so we are more sustainable than the rest of the world, we have a competitive advantage if we can compare ourselves to the rest of the world, so it is a state agenda no matter who was in power, and we want to be at the forefront of a low carbon transition because you think that this — there is this huge advantage but if you can have joint efforts with the federal government, that would be much easier, but of course we need more than that, we need all the institutions really empower, and we need efforts as isabella also said with the whole society, so we have to combat deforestation, and that represents half of our emissions, so it's amazing what we have to do. i'm going to bring you in now, we have already heard from paloma, the importance of protecting indigenous rights and the demarcation of territory, what would you say? what would be your priority?—

your priority? hello everyone, thank you _ your priority? hello everyone, thank you for— your priority? hello everyone, thank you for your _ your priority? hello everyone, thank you for your patience i your priority? hello everyone, thank you for your patience is | thank you for your patience is duntuy— thank you for your patience is dumpy the whole government is currently... inaudible. if you can put— currently... inaudible. if you can put that into law we can protect _ can put that into law we can protect our lands, we can protect— protect our lands, we can protect our lands, we can protect our people. it is a challenge though, it's impossible to do that here in brazil. — impossible to do that here in brazil, we can't demarcate our lands, _ brazil, we can't demarcate our lands, we _ brazil, we can't demarcate our lands, we cannot fight more consistence for us in brazil. thank— consistence for us in brazil. thank you _ consistence for us in brazil. thank you so much, let's put a question to our conversation,. what other measures to be taken to combat deforestation, and what are the actions for mitigation of already deforested areas? ., ., deforested areas? how to combat deforestation? _ deforested areas? how to combat deforestation? the _ deforested areas? how to combat deforestation? the figures - deforested areas? how to combat deforestation? the figures are - deforestation? the figures are absolutely staggering, and paloma is nodding. cop26 in

2021, 11 trees per second, 17% of the amazon already lost. what do you think has to be done paloma, memphis depay deforestation?— deforestation? honestly, this . uestion deforestation? honestly, this question is — deforestation? honestly, this question is very _ deforestation? honestly, this question is very easy - deforestation? honestly, thisj question is very easy because you have here a law that has been established and it is the conservation plan against deforestation in the amazon and we also have wine other area. if it is so easy, why is the reverse happening?- if it is so easy, why is the reverse happening? you have someone _ reverse happening? you have someone here _ reverse happening? you have someone here who _ reverse happening? you have someone here who had - reverse happening? you have someone here who had the i reverse happening? you have - someone here who had the entire destruction of the entire structure that we had. you are talkin: structure that we had. you are talking about _ structure that we had. you are talking about the _ talking about the former administration under bolsonaro? exactly, and the new administration has a part of organising and reorganising the entire room, and the entire scenario, so if we want to fight deforestation we have to

take it very seriously, taking into consideration that deforestation is the main source of carbon emissions in brazil, and for that, not only putting and implementing the plan for restructuring the entire government, the entire environmental government, but also providing education, providing access to information, because this is key, as isabella said, for democracy, and when we talk about the climate collapse, about the climate collapse, about the climate collapse, about the destruction of the amazon, we're talking about the in our democracy, our entire lives of humans.— lives of humans. you have already said _ lives of humans. you have already said tonight - lives of humans. you have i already said tonight isabella that it's already said tonight isabella that its complex, it's a complex issue. is this one also complex? paloma says it easy if you just follow the laws. {30 you just follow the laws. go there, try — you just follow the laws. go there. try to _ you just follow the laws. go there, try to solve it. i know what — there, try to solve it. i know what it— there, try to solve it. i know what it means, let's try to decouple things here to make it absolutely agree that brazil has important legal frameworks

to tackle — has important legal frameworks to tackle the environmental crime _ to tackle the environmental crime. this is very powerful, brazii— crime. this is very powerful, brazil said _ crime. this is very powerful, brazil said this is ok, very important for us, and there are different— important for us, and there are different agendas to tackle not only deforestation but also go into other types of environmental crime, like itiegai— environmental crime, like illegal goldmining, etc. let me 'ust ick illegal goldmining, etc. let me just pick up _ illegal goldmining, etc. let me just pick up on _ illegal goldmining, etc. let me just pick up on that _ illegal goldmining, etc. let me just pick up on that because . just pick up on that because you talk about environmental crime, since the last time the president and his team was empower the criminal gangs, they are better armed, more numerous, more powerful, arguably they may be even more powerful than the security forces that are tasked with putting them out and fighting against them. is this part of the complexity that you talk about? , ,., , about? yes, in the past, when i was minister _ about? yes, in the past, when i was minister for _ about? yes, in the past, when i was minister for example, - about? yes, in the past, when i was minister for example, we i was minister for example, we reviewed _ was minister for example, we reviewed this twice, and it was during — reviewed this twice, and it was during nty— reviewed this twice, and it was during my administration that we did — during my administration that we did this, and we shaved all the institutional regimes, and

it's important to be highlighted, the international part was coming together to tackle — part was coming together to tackle deforestation because of the crime that goes together with— the crime that goes together with environmental crime, and organised _ with environmental crime, and organised crime is connected to the international organised crime — the international organised crime hubs, and in the past brazii— crime hubs, and in the past brazil was able to do this, it was — brazil was able to do this, it was on _ brazil was able to do this, it was on our leadership, we promoted this, that's why we were — promoted this, that's why we were so— promoted this, that's why we were so well suited to tackle deforestation. after this what's _ deforestation. after this what's happened, it's better to use this — what's happened, it's better to use this expression, the erosion. _ use this expression, the erosion, it was a political project _ erosion, it was a political project as everyone knows, and now, _ project as everyone knows, and now, president lula is back looking _ now, president lula is back looking to address again, not to tackle _ looking to address again, not to tackle deforestation but to restore — to tackle deforestation but to restore credibility, trust in brazil. _ restore credibility, trust in brazil, and make sure that brazilian _ brazil, and make sure that brazilian society will come to support — brazilian society will come to support this development. let brin: in support this development. let bring injonah, we are hearing now this new government, trust, credibility, rebuilding the

institutions, fighting against deforestation, are you convinced this is a new start? you talk about hope. taste convinced this is a new start? you talk about hope.- you talk about hope. we are livin: in you talk about hope. we are living in a — you talk about hope. we are living in a time _ you talk about hope. we are living in a time of— you talk about hope. we are living in a time of hope, - you talk about hope. we are living in a time of hope, and| living in a time of hope, and we are making part of this the best thing for the new generation can see, and older can see as well, and indigenous people, we feel like we are together. people, we feel like we are together-— together. for the first time the ministry _ together. for the first time the ministry of— together. for the first time the ministry of indigenousl the ministry of indigenous people. the ministry of indigenous --eole. ~ ., the ministry of indigenous neale, . ., the ministry of indigenous --eole. ., ., the ministry of indigenous n-eole. ., ., , people. we are part of this buildin: people. we are part of this building of— people. we are part of this building of the _ people. we are part of this building of the country, - people. we are part of this building of the country, so| people. we are part of this i building of the country, so we are very,... it is a challenge for us, and it's a powerful thing for us, and we can make decisions, we can do decisions

for us all local or regional or national levels, and this new government is so early to talk about. , �* , government is so early to talk about. , �*, ., , government is so early to talk about. , �*, ._ about. yes, it's early days, early months, _ about. yes, it's early days, early months, but - about. yes, it's early days, early months, but we - about. yes, it's early days, early months, but we have| about. yes, it's early days, - early months, but we have had more questions about indigenous and private sector, let's bring in the next question.- and private sector, let's bring in the next question. how can the new government - in the next question. how can the new government supportl the new government support those who can actually save the forest, that is the indigenous and traditional populations, and traditional populations, and what should the private sector be doing? i’m and what should the private sector be doing?— and what should the private sector be doing? i'm going to brin: un sector be doing? i'm going to bring un because _ sector be doing? i'm going to bring un because you - sector be doing? i'm going to bring un because you a - bring un because you a significant chunk of the private sector, and i have to say, when you look at what the private sector said it will do including agribusiness like kbs, the biggest meat exporter, a big food giant, they sign up to all of these pledges, it looks good on paper, but there has been so many investigations, amnesty international, greenpeace, eco— storm, reporter brazil, that they are violating the very

pledges to look at the supply chains, not to take products from deforested lands, you can match what they say but not what they do. we match what they say but not what they do.— match what they say but not what they do. we have to have an alternative _ what they do. we have to have an alternative to _ what they do. we have to have an alternative to extending - an alternative to extending forest and today, still we have a legal deforestation, it is complex, it is very complex, but we have to build up an alternative and we just launched one paper with 50 companies, saying we will help it come in combined preservation and reduction. crosstalk. this clash all this balance between growth which brazil needs, economic growth, fighting against inequality, creating jobs but also conservation.- creating jobs but also conservation. , ,, ., conservation. yes, you know, our big asset, _ conservation. yes, you know, our big asset, environmental| our big asset, environmental asset, it has to help, you know, the people that live there. it is not a simple thing for the private sector only, we have to have the state government and the federal government and the federal government from all of them have to be aligned.—

government from all of them have to be aligned. paloma? is there a contradiction _ have to be aligned. paloma? is there a contradiction between i there a contradiction between what they say and what they do, really good words but is a good action? ., ., ., action? international cooperation - action? international cooperation to - action? international cooperation to make| action? international- cooperation to make sure that the money that is making sure by companies, by governments come _ by companies, by governments come and — by companies, by governments come and go to the front. we were — come and go to the front. we were promised in the kop in glasgow— were promised in the kop in glasgow billions of money form _ glasgow billions of money for... , , . glasgow billions of money for... ,, , �* . glasgow billions of money for... ,, ,, ~ ~ ., for... crosstalk. and to compensate _ for... crosstalk. and to compensate farmers? - for... crosstalk. and to | compensate farmers? but for... crosstalk. and to - compensate farmers? but where is the money, — compensate farmers? but where is the money, l _ compensate farmers? but where is the money, i don't _ compensate farmers? but where is the money, i don't know- is the money, i don't know anyone _ is the money, i don't know anyone who has received or used it. ,, , r anyone who has received or used it. ,, ,, ~ ., ., anyone who has received or used it. crosstalk. half of what was romised it. crosstalk. half of what was promised was... _ it. crosstalk. half of what was promised was... crosstalk. it| promised was... crosstalk. it is not promised was... crosstalk. it is rrot working _ promised was... crosstalk. it is not working if _ promised was... crosstalk. it is not working if it _ promised was... crosstalk. it is not working if it is _ promised was... crosstalk. it is not working if it is not - is not working if it is not coming _ is not working if it is not coming into the second thing is we need — coming into the second thing is we need regulation on traceability, what izabella was saying, — traceability, what izabella was saying, we need to regulate carbon— saying, we need to regulate carbon markets, how this is coming _ carbon markets, how this is coming through the territories, because — coming through the territories, because when we have a track where — because when we have a track where we _ because when we have a track where we understand what is coming, _ where we understand what is coming, illegal mining, illegal gold. — coming, illegal mining, illegal gold, illegalwood coming, illegal mining, illegal gold, illegal wood and we can understand this.— gold, illegal wood and we can understand this. rostock. let's brin: in understand this. rostock. let's

bring in izabella. _ understand this. rostock. let's bring in izabella. everyone i understand this. rostock. let's bring in izabella. everyone in l bring in izabella. everyone in the world _ bring in izabella. everyone in the world wants _ bring in izabella. everyone in the world wants to _ bring in izabella. everyone in the world wants to be - bring in izabella. everyone in the world wants to be green | bring in izabella. everyone in i the world wants to be green but it's not— the world wants to be green but it's not easy _ the world wants to be green but it's not easy. we _ the world wants to be green but it's not easy. we need - the world wants to be green but it's not easy. we need to - the world wants to be green but it's not easy. we need to go i it's not easy. we need to go into— it's not easy. we need to go into traceability— it's not easy. we need to go into traceability in _ it's not easy. we need to go into traceability in brazil i it's not easy. we need to go| into traceability in brazil and production— into traceability in brazil and production in— into traceability in brazil and production in brazil, - into traceability in brazil and production in brazil, 75% i into traceability in brazil and production in brazil, 75% ofl production in brazil, 75% of beef— production in brazil, 75% of beef production— production in brazil, 75% of beef production is - production in brazil, 75% of. beef production is consumed production in brazil, 75% of- beef production is consumed by brazilians— beef production is consumed by brazilians so— beef production is consumed by brazilians so i'm _ beef production is consumed by brazilians so i'm sorry- beef production is consumed by brazilians so i'm sorry but i brazilians so i'm sorry but brazil _ brazilians so i'm sorry but brazil needs— brazilians so i'm sorry but brazil needs to _ brazilians so i'm sorry but brazil needs to eat - brazilians so i'm sorry but brazil needs to eat beef. brazilians so i'm sorry but i brazil needs to eat beef with deforestation— brazil needs to eat beef with deforestation of— brazil needs to eat beef with deforestation of the - deforestation of the international - deforestation of the i international community. deforestation of the - international community. but our bi international community. but your big beef _ international community. your big beef exporter abs international community.- your big beef exporter abs has a carbon footprint as big as italy's! i a carbon footprint as big as ital 's! ~' ., a carbon footprint as big as ltaly'si- -- - a carbon footprint as big as italy's!- -- jbs. - a carbon footprint as big as italy's!- -- 155. you italy's! i know. -- 135. you want to _ italy's! i know. -- 135. you want to eat _ italy's! i know. -- 135. you want to eat beef _ italy's! i know. -- 135. you want to eat beef but i italy's! i know. -- 135. you want to eat beef but you i italy's! i know. -- 135. you i want to eat beef but you want to fight for the environment? you have companies that must be reviewed — you have companies that must be reviewed and _ you have companies that must be reviewed and readdress _ you have companies that must be reviewed and readdress things i reviewed and readdress things and have — reviewed and readdress things and have other— reviewed and readdress things and have other ones _ reviewed and readdress things and have other ones that i reviewed and readdress thingsj and have other ones that bring the right— and have other ones that bring the right things _ and have other ones that bring the right things to _ and have other ones that bring the right things to make - and have other ones that bring the right things to make the i the right things to make the best— the right things to make the best that _ the right things to make the best that have _ the right things to make the best that have traceability i the right things to make the i best that have traceability but more — best that have traceability but more than _ best that have traceability but more than this _ best that have traceability but more than this to _ best that have traceability but more than this to be - best that have traceability but l more than this to be committed to restore — more than this to be committed to restore the _ more than this to be committed to restore the degraded - more than this to be committed to restore the degraded area i to restore the degraded area and to— to restore the degraded area and to have _ to restore the degraded area and to have the _ to restore the degraded area and to have the social- and to have the social inclusion— and to have the social inclusion and - and to have the social inclusion and and i and to have the social inclusion and and etcl and to have the social. inclusion and and etc and and to have the social- inclusion and and etc and we have — inclusion and and etc and we have a — inclusion and and etc and we have a process _ inclusion and and etc and we have a process and - inclusion and and etc and we have a process and we - inclusion and and etc and we have a process and we are i have a process and we are changing _ have a process and we are changing and _ have a process and we are changing and this- have a process and we are changing and this is- have a process and we are changing and this is a i have a process and we are i changing and this is a moment that we — changing and this is a moment that we are _ changing and this is a moment that we are looking _ changing and this is a moment that we are looking for- changing and this is a moment that we are looking for to i that we are looking for to change _ that we are looking for to change because - that we are looking for to change because we - that we are looking for to change because we needl that we are looking for to i change because we need to set the past — change because we need to set the past in _ change because we need to set the past in the _ change because we need to set the past in the past _ change because we need to set the past in the past and - change because we need to set the past in the past and make i the past in the past and make sure _ the past in the past and make sure that _ the past in the past and make sure that together— the past in the past and make sure that together we - the past in the past and make sure that together we build i the past in the past and make. sure that together we build but in short—term _ sure that together we build but in short—term times _ sure that together we build but in short—term times to - sure that together we build but

in short—term times to sure i in short—term times to sure that— in short—term times to sure that we _ in short—term times to sure that we can _ in short—term times to sure that we can read _ in short—term times to sure that we can read build i in short—term times to sure that we can read build newl that we can read build new conditions _ that we can read build new conditions to— that we can read build new conditions to move - that we can read build new conditions to move along i that we can read build newl conditions to move along to that we can read build new. conditions to move along to a long-term _ conditions to move along to a long—term perspective. - conditions to move along to a long—term perspective. the i conditions to move along to a i long—term perspective. the only thing _ long—term perspective. the only thing we — long—term perspective. the only thing we can— long—term perspective. the only thing we can say— long—term perspective. the only thing we can say his _ long—term perspective. the only thing we can say his brazil- long—term perspective. the only thing we can say his brazil is i thing we can say his brazil is a culture _ thing we can say his brazil is a culture of— thing we can say his brazil is a culture of alternatives. in. a culture of alternatives. in what a culture of alternatives. what sense? you have a culture of alternatives.“ what sense? you have diverse alternatives, look up our energy mix and halocarbon culture and industrial transition. we have alternative. we have a singularity. this is for me the big challenge for our president and our society. we big challenge for our president and our society.— and our society. we need audacity _ and our society. we need audacity to _ and our society. we need audacity to make - and our society. we need audacity to make sure i and our society. we need l audacity to make sure that and our society. we need i audacity to make sure that we can move _ audacity to make sure that we can move in _ audacity to make sure that we can move in the _ audacity to make sure that we can move in the right- can move in the right direction. _ can move in the right direction. boldness. i direction. boldness. absolutely. - direction. boldness. absolutely.- direction. boldness. absolutely. you have a question. _ absolutely. you have a question, shepherd? i absolutely. you have a i question, shepherd? what ethical guidelines - question, shepherd? what ethical guidelines or i ethical guidelines or additional government regulations do you advocate in the face of companies seeking to extract private gain from public assets? whether through exploitation of the amazon or appropriation of national parks

and monuments? let appropriation of national parks and monuments?— appropriation of national parks and monuments? let me bring in marina grossi _ and monuments? let me bring in marina grossi now. _ and monuments? let me bring in marina grossi now. we _ and monuments? let me bring in marina grossi now. we all - and monuments? let me bring in marina grossi now. we all have i marina grossi now. we all have to do more- — marina grossi now. we all have to do more. the _ marina grossi now. we all have to do more. the private - marina grossi now. we all havej to do more. the private sector, the federal— to do more. the private sector, the federal government crosstalk.— the federal government crosstalk. ., ,, .,~ ., crosstalk. you speak for them more than _ crosstalk. you speak for them more than business _ crosstalk. you speak for them more than business groups? i crosstalk. you speak for them more than business groups? we| more than business groups? we have to do _ more than business groups? we have to do more. i think there is a _ have to do more. i think there is a movement and as i said since — is a movement and as i said since 2019 more clearly because it was— since 2019 more clearly because it was damaged our reputation, brazilian — it was damaged our reputation, brazilian reputation, and are put in — brazilian reputation, and are put in the _ brazilian reputation, and are put in the same place people that— put in the same place people that were doing right and people _ that were doing right and people that were doing wrong things — people that were doing wrong things. even in traditional industries like mining or petrol— industries like mining or petrol or whatever, industries like mining or petrol orwhatever, but industries like mining or petrol or whatever, but you have — petrol or whatever, but you have to _ petrol or whatever, but you have to be sustainable in these areas _ have to be sustainable in these areas and — have to be sustainable in these areas and you have to respect the indigenous people that are the indigenous people that are the guardians of these areas. they— the guardians of these areas. they protected the amazon. do ou they protected the amazon. do you recognise the problem that shepherd is talking about? yes. shepherd is talking about? yes, i think shepherd is talking about? yes, i think the _ shepherd is talking about? yes, i think the ethical _ shepherd is talking about? yes, i think the ethical problem, it's you _ i think the ethical problem, it's you have to give an alternative, you have to do, as paloma — alternative, you have to do, as paloma said, the government is a good — paloma said, the government is a good alternative, the potential of 50% of the market

have _ potential of 50% of the market have nature —based solutions in the whole — have nature —based solutions in the whole world. have nature -based solutions in the whole world.— the whole world. izabella, does there need _ the whole world. izabella, does there need to _ the whole world. izabella, does there need to be _ the whole world. izabella, does there need to be more - there need to be more guidelines? the rules are there, as paloma started by saying, have the codes and the rules but it's not being followed and maybe you cannot enforce some of them for all of the reasons we've been discussing? i the reasons we've been discussing?— the reasons we've been discussing? the reasons we've been discussin: ? ., ., discussing? i think there are two different _ discussing? i think there are two different things - discussing? i think there are two different things here. i discussing? i think there are l two different things here. the first one. _ two different things here. the first one, going _ two different things here. the first one, going against- first one, going against singularities— first one, going against singularities and - first one, going againstl singularities and putting first one, going against- singularities and putting this out of— singularities and putting this out of the _ singularities and putting this out of the market. _ singularities and putting this out of the market. this i out of the market. this means... _ out of the market. this means... crosstalk. | out of the market. this i means... crosstalk. put out of the market. this - means... crosstalk. put it out ofthe means... crosstalk. put it out of the game- — means... crosstalk. put it out of the game. have _ means... crosstalk. put it out of the game. have you - means... crosstalk. put it out of the game. have you decided l of the game. have you decided to include _ of the game. have you decided to include illegal— of the game. have you decided to include illegal mining? - to include illegal mining? illegalities. i don't need to illegalities. idon't need to buy— illegalities. idon't need to buy illegal— illegalities. i don't need to buy illegal gold. _ illegalities. i don't need to buy illegal gold. 0k? - illegalities. i don't need to buy illegal gold. ok? i- illegalities. i don't need to. buy illegal gold. ok? i need illegalities. i don't need to - buy illegal gold. ok? i need to improve — buy illegal gold. ok? i need to improve institutional— improve institutional measurements. - improve institutional measurements. and | improve institutional- measurements. and make improve institutional— measurements. and make sure that we — measurements. and make sure that we as _ measurements. and make sure that we as consumers - measurements. and make sure that we as consumers cannot. measurements. and make sure i that we as consumers cannot buy something — that we as consumers cannot buy something like _ that we as consumers cannot buy something like this... _ that we as consumers cannot buy something like this. . ._ something like this... because the are something like this... because they are one — something like this. .. because they are one of— something like this... because they are one of the _ something like this... because they are one of the big - something like this... because they are one of the big causes| they are one of the big causes of deforestation.— they are one of the big causes of deforestation. absolutely. i like to remember— of deforestation. absolutely. i like to remember by _ of deforestation. absolutely. i like to remember by 2015 - of deforestation. absolutely. i like to remember by 2015 we i like to remember by 2015 we have — like to remember by 2015 we have the _ like to remember by 2015 we have the paris _ like to remember by 2015 we have the paris agreement, l like to remember by 2015 we l have the paris agreement, the emissions _ have the paris agreement, the emissions in _ have the paris agreement, the

emissions in brazil— have the paris agreement, the emissions in brazil related - have the paris agreement, the emissions in brazil related to i emissions in brazil related to deforestation— emissions in brazil related to deforestation were _ emissions in brazil related to deforestation were around i emissions in brazil related to. deforestation were around 15% and now — deforestation were around 15% and now it _ deforestation were around 15% and now it is _ deforestation were around 15% and now it is 50. _ deforestation were around 15% and now it is 50. so _ deforestation were around 15% and now it is 50. so look- deforestation were around 15% and now it is 50. so look at. and now it is 50. so look at how— and now it is 50. so look at how illegality _ and now it is 50. so look at how illegality came - and now it is 50. so look at how illegality came in - and now it is 50. so look at how illegality came in the l and now it is 50. so look at. how illegality came in the last four years _ how illegality came in the last four years so _ how illegality came in the last four years. so all— how illegality came in the last four years. so all the - four years. so all the brazilians _ four years. so all the brazilians must- four years. so all the . brazilians must support four years. so all the - brazilians must support the public— brazilians must support the public institutions- brazilians must support the public institutions and - brazilians must support the public institutions and to i brazilians must support the i public institutions and to make sure _ public institutions and to make sure that — public institutions and to make sure that national— public institutions and to make sure that national congress - sure that national congress will go _ sure that national congress will go against _ sure that national congress will go against illegalities. i will go against illegalities. we can— will go against illegalities. we can have _ will go against illegalities. we can have the _ will go against illegalities. we can have the powerful| we can have the powerful president— we can have the powerful president in— we can have the powerful president in the _ we can have the powerful president in the world - we can have the powerfuli president in the world but we can have the powerful- president in the world but not be able — president in the world but not be able to— president in the world but not be able to change _ president in the world but not be able to change because . president in the world but notl be able to change because this is democracy _ be able to change because this is democracy and _ be able to change because this is democracy and it's _ be able to change because this is democracy and it's why - be able to change because this is democracy and it's why i - is democracy and it's why i mentioned _ is democracy and it's why i mentioned it's _ is democracy and it's why i mentioned it's so - is democracy and it's why i i mentioned it's so important is democracy and it's why i - mentioned it's so important to id mentioned it's so important to go to— mentioned it's so important to go to the — mentioned it's so important to go to the national— mentioned it's so important to go to the national congress i mentioned it's so important to go to the national congress in| go to the national congress in the next — go to the national congress in the next few— go to the national congress in the next few years _ go to the national congress in the next few years and - go to the national congress in the next few years and make i the next few years and make sure — the next few years and make sure that _ the next few years and make sure that we _ the next few years and make sure that we are _ the next few years and make sure that we are responsible | the next few years and make . sure that we are responsible to elect _ sure that we are responsible to elect the — sure that we are responsible to elect the right _ sure that we are responsible to elect the right people - sure that we are responsible to elect the right people to - elect the right people to protect— elect the right people to protect our— elect the right people to protect our nature - elect the right people to protect our nature and l elect the right people to i protect our nature and also guarding _ protect our nature and also guarding of— protect our nature and also guarding of climate - protect our nature and also| guarding of climate change. protect our nature and also - guarding of climate change. we want to guarding of climate change. want to take another guarding of climate change.“ want to take another question. john? want to take another question. john? ~, want to take another question. john? ~ , , ., , want to take another question. john? g , ., , john? my question is about olitics john? my question is about politics in _ john? my question is about politics in the _ john? my question is about politics in the congress. i john? my question is about i politics in the congress. given that most of the foreign deforestation is undertaken by a small minority of landowners, i do politics and congress not vote to protect the forest but vote to protect the forest but vote aligned with these minorities? i vote aligned with these minorities?— vote aligned with these minorities? . ., . , .,

minorities? i want to ask you whether this _ minorities? i want to ask you whether this very _ minorities? i want to ask you whether this very issue, - minorities? i want to ask you whether this very issue, this | whether this very issue, this narrow election victory of president looma, 50.9%, brazilian politics is about dealmaking —— lula. with some of those interests that we've been talking about. do you worry it will be gridlock to get things through? honestly in a congress _ get things through? honestly in a congress like _ get things through? honestly in a congress like that, _ get things through? honestly in a congress like that, no - get things through? honestly in a congress like that, no way - a congress like that, no way forward for the private sector, civil society, use, forward for the private sector, civilsociety, use, indigenous people, we bring results if we have proved something as the environmental license law that wants to make everything easier, the destruction easier and so on and i think when we talk about education, putting this as the number one agenda, we are talking about changing the mindset and re— forest in it but if we keep having a society like this it means that we have no attic since the last question and it means michael fortner ethics. and people think that means profit. but even the private sector leaders

of agribusiness realise it, there is no private or no profit if there is no lead. so thenit profit if there is no lead. so then it became climate activists and they realised that we don't need any more centimetre of land to be deforested, to be on it because... deforested, to be on it because. . . deforested, to be on it because... ,, ,, ~ , deforested, to be on it because... ,,,, ~ , , because... crosstalk. this is where you _ because... crosstalk. this is where you agree? _ because... crosstalk. this is where you agree? sure. - because... crosstalk. this is where you agree? sure. we i because... crosstalk. this is | where you agree? sure. we have already enormous _ where you agree? sure. we have already enormous areas - where you agree? sure. we have already enormous areas degree i already enormous areas degree dated _ already enormous areas degree dated that we can fulfil, we don't — dated that we can fulfil, we don't need any more and i think brazii— don't need any more and i think brazil maybe is one country in the world _ brazil maybe is one country in the world that we have the possibility to combine productivity with preservation. i productivity with preservation. idon't — productivity with preservation. i don't think there is other cultures _ i don't think there is other cultures that have this possibility.— cultures that have this possibility. cultures that have this ossibili . ,, . . ., possibility. sharma, do you worry about _ possibility. sharma, do you worry about the _ possibility. sharma, do you worry about the politics - possibility. sharma, do you worry about the politics of. worry about the politics of fighting to protect the amazon and the indigenous peoples, the power of agribusiness? yes. we have to be _ power of agribusiness? yes. we have to be together with the collective, the organisations, you know? as we live in this area — you know? as we live in this area agribusiness is like which

type _ area agribusiness is like which type of— area agribusiness is like which type of economy we are talking about, — type of economy we are talking about, what we're talking about, _ about, what we're talking about, this government has to be here — about, this government has to be here really now. near to the forest _ be here really now. near to the forest ovation and all the people _ forest ovation and all the people that live in the throat of the — people that live in the throat of the amazonia. it�*s people that live in the throat of the amazonia.— of the amazonia. it's a good oint of the amazonia. it's a good point about _ of the amazonia. it's a good point about how _ of the amazonia. it's a good point about how you - of the amazonia. it's a good point about how you have i of the amazonia. it's a good point about how you have to listen more.— point about how you have to listen more. what i believe is that lula _ listen more. what i believe is that lula and _ listen more. what i believe is that lula and his _ listen more. what i believe is that lula and his ministry - that lula and his ministry should _ that lula and his ministry should establish- that lula and his ministry should establish the - that lula and his ministry should establish the new| should establish the new pillars— should establish the new pillars for— should establish the new pillars for the _ should establish the new - pillars for the transformation over— pillars for the transformation over the _ pillars for the transformation over the next— pillars for the transformation over the next years. - pillars for the transformation over the next years.- pillars for the transformation i over the next years. yes. it's important — over the next years. yes. it's important to _ over the next years. yes. it's important to have _ over the next years.“ it's| important to have trade—offs, absolutely, _ important to have trade—offs, absolutely, but _ important to have trade—offs, absolutely, but we _ important to have trade—offs, absolutely, but we need - important to have trade—offs, absolutely, but we need to i absolutely, but we need to understand _ absolutely, but we need to understand what _ absolutely, but we need to understand what are - absolutely, but we need to understand what are the l understand what are the critical _ understand what are the critical pillars— understand what are the critical pillars that - understand what are the critical pillars that must| understand what are the . critical pillars that must be fixed — critical pillars that must be fixed in _ critical pillars that must be fixed in such _ critical pillars that must be fixed in such a _ critical pillars that must be fixed in such a way- critical pillars that must be fixed in such a way that - critical pillars that must be fixed in such a way that we critical pillars that must be - fixed in such a way that we can move — fixed in such a way that we can move in— fixed in such a way that we can move in the _ fixed in such a way that we can move in the right _ fixed in such a way that we can move in the right direction. - move in the right direction. 0k~ — move in the right direction. 0k. , ., , ., , , , ok. this means leadership. this means brazil— ok. this means leadership. this means brazil supports _ ok. this means leadership. this means brazil supports and - ok. this means leadership. this means brazil supports and for. means brazil supports and for means brazil supports and for me we — means brazil supports and for me we need _ means brazil supports and for me we need to _ means brazil supports and for me we need to bring - means brazil supports and for me we need to bring the - means brazil supports and for. me we need to bring the future through— me we need to bring the future through the _ me we need to bring the future through the present, _ me we need to bring the future through the present, and - me we need to bring the future through the present, and not . through the present, and not have — through the present, and not have the _ through the present, and not have the past— through the present, and not have the past as _ through the present, and not have the past as a _ through the present, and not have the past as a present. l

through the present, and not. have the past as a present. 0k. well, have the past as a present. 0k. well. we've _ have the past as a present. 0k. well, we've heard _ have the past as a present. well, we've heard tonight, we have heard sharma talking about hope, we have heard from paloma it could be easy because there is a legal infrastructure and marina said there is a new commitment and this fight is also ourfight and commitment and this fight is also our fight and izabella, you in some moments it seemed exhausted by the enormity of it but there is no doubting your passion about setting up those pillars and moving towards this transition. she believes... crosstalk. and we believe all of you at home who know about the emmers on and care about the emmers on and care about the amazon who care about our global climate crisis will have got some encouraging words. lots of questions raised but i want to thank our audience and i want to thank our terrific panel. pleasejoin me in thanking everyone for this very, very important debate tonight. you further watching global questions. —— thank you for watching. applause.

hello there. good friday was a pretty decent one across the country. plenty of sunshine around. there was still a bit of a chill in the air but i think as we move deeper into the easter weekend, it'll start to warm up as we pick up our air source from the south. it's going to stay dry, plenty of sunshine, then, it's all change for the bank holiday easter monday as this area of low pressure begins to spread across the country. but it's high pressure dominating the scene to start the easter weekend, so a lot of dry weather to begin with. on the chilly side, mind you, but temperatures will rise fairly quickly. cloud across eastern scotland and eastern england will tend to break up and burn back to the coast, so we should be looking at plenty of sunny spells into the afternoon as a little bit of fair weather cloud will bubble up here and there. bit more of a breeze, generally, particularly towards the south and the west. and temperatures a notch up — ranging from 13 to maybe 16 degrees. and then, as we head through saturday night, it stays fine and dry. lengthy clear skies. bit more of a breeze — even more i think,

through saturday night. variable cloud, so i think we should be frost—free to start sunday. another fairly cool one with temperatures of 2—6 celsius. so, for easter sunday, we're looking at this area of low pressure edging further eastwards. it will be affecting northern ireland late in the day. more isobars on the chart, so a windy day to come for many, particularly towards the west. that said, it's another fine one with plenty of sunshine around and ourairsource coming in from the south, so it should feel a little bit warmer. —— we could be up to 17 degrees but generally, in the mid—teens for many, but it will be turning wet and windier for northern ireland and then, that rain pushing into western britain later on sunday. through sunday night into the early part of monday, that band of wind and rain will spread across the uk. it should've cleared by the time we head into easter monday morning but we've got a day of sunshine and showers. some of these showers will be heavy, perhaps thundery, particularly in the north and the west, and it will feel

cooler as well. we could be up to the mid—teens in the south—east, given some sunshine, but generally, we're looking at 10—13 celsius, so noticeably cooler. and then, for this upcoming week, it will remain pretty unsettled with low pressure always nearby. we could even see a risk of gales around the middle part of the week. but you can see the unsettled theme here if i show you the icons and with temperatures just about making double figures, factor in the wind and rain, it'll feel cooler. match what they say but not what they do.

live from washington, this is bbc news. welcome to viewers on pbs in america. us presidentjoe biden vows to protect access to a widely—used abortion pill, as two judges issue conflicting rulings. us vice president kamala harris meets the two tennessee lawmakers expelled for protesting about gun control. and china begins three days of military exercises near taiwan in response to the taiwanese president's visit to the us. we begin here in the us, where president biden says he will fight a new ruling out of texas to halt the approval of the abortion pill mifepristone in seven days.