this is bbc news. we'll have all the latest headlines and news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. givenjoe biden�*s pride in his irish roots, his determination to be in belfast and dublin to mark the 25th anniversary of northern ireland's good friday peace agreement, comes as no surprise. the us government continues to use its transatlantic leverage to try to ensure the peace holds,

despite political tensions in northern ireland. my guest is us congressman richard neal, a democrat and co—chair of the friends of ireland caucus group. to what extent is the wider us—uk relationship tied to the situation in northern ireland? congressman richard neal in springfield, massachusetts, welcome to hardtalk. pleased to be with you. well, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. what doesjoe biden�*s determination to be on the island of ireland to mark this 25th anniversary

of the good friday agreement, what does it tell us about the priority he puts on doing what he can to maintaining the solidity of the peace there? well, i think it's a historic anniversary and i think america served as an honest broker through the negotiations and they were able through, i think, strategy and patience to bring about a successful conclusion to the agreement, recalling that before the agreement, there were 30,000 british soldiers in an area the size of our state of connecticut. there were 106 military installations, there was a royal ulster constabulary that one tradition of the communities decided... they thought that it was very unfair in their daily treatment. and today, we have a prosperous island, still a ways to go, but the key here is to point out the following — all sides had to give up something,

in terms of aspiration, to bring about this significant achievement. and i think that that cannot be overstated and joe biden wants to be there for obvious and good reason and that is to celebrate what many of us in america believe to be a successful dimension to american foreign policy. right. now, you, likejoe biden, have always put a priority on what is happening in ireland, taking a great interest in it, and you were sitting in the us congress when the good friday agreement was signed. you have a long perspective. ijust wonder how much strain you believe that brexit has put on the mechanics, the basics, of the good friday agreement. well, i think that the framework that was embraced by the prime minister sunak, i think that has gone some way toward getting us through another challenging moment, but one of the problems with brexit

is when you have a referendum question and certainly a sovereign people should determine through the ballot box, if they intend to do it that way, their own destiny. i think one of the promises that was offered up in support of brexit by the brexiteers was that somehow all of it would be a panacea and it would be very easy. well, i think that right now people have had a chance to reflect upon that referendum question. referendum questions, as you know, one of the dangers is that they're yes and no questions. they do not generally embrace the nuance of some compromises. the result has been that brexit certainly complicated issues because it fully implemented without the protocol that the former prime ministerjohnson had in fact negotiated, then brexit�*s conceivably based upon what the european union and the european commission suggested was, it could have returned a hard border on the island between the north and the republic of ireland. and i don't think that anybody found that to be a desirable outcome. right. now, clearly, the us administration

didn't want to see that happen. you refer to rishi sunak, prime minister rishi sunak�*s deal with the eu, they call it the windsor framework and it's a complicated agreement, but in essence, what it seems to have done is found a nuanced way to free up trade between mainland britain and northern ireland, while ensuring that the open border, the no—hard border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland is maintained. now, it's a solution which the british parliament has overwhelmingly approved. the problem is that the key unionist party in northern ireland, the democratic unionist party, refuses to accept it. now, do you believejoe biden will go to belfast and try to convince the dup that they must accept this deal? well, the dup, they were in washington recently, i've had a long—standing relationship with them, and even where we might disagree,

i think that part of what we want to accomplish here is prodding them to sit in government. in a democratic election, sometimes we might not like the result, but that doesn't give us the ability to walk away from a result after we've signed up for an agreement that brought about the idea of self—representative democracy. i think the danger here is that in the framework that was outlined by the prime minister, which i think is a pretty good one, incidentally, i think was the best path forward after a lot of deliberation, and remember this, there is a great deal of ambiguity in the good friday agreement, but the election that took place, the result of which the dup might have disagreed with, should not be the purpose and reason for leaving what i called earlier, self—government. but that's the reality. the dup, because they are not satisfied with the windsor agreement, are refusing to go back into the devolved so—called stormont government in northern ireland,

as a result of which, the northern ireland devolved government simply cannot function. so it comes back to american leverage. will america be using its leverage to do whatever it can to change that situation, to change dup minds? i've been in contact with the white house, i've had a long friendship withjoe biden, i was with bill clinton in new york a couple of nights ago, we hosted a forum on the success of the agreement and i think that there can be some gentle nudging here. understanding that we all want, i think, to travel on the path that will bring about what i've often referred to as two traditions that live in one community, but there was an election, and i hope that even the disputes we've had in america over recent elections, as you know, the outcome is accepted. isn't the problem here... if i may, congressman, isn't the problem here that people

like you and your fellow democrat and in a sense your party boss joe biden, you're not trusted by unionists in northern ireland? you care deeply about ireland, but you have a set of views about ireland, which the unionists are deeply suspicious of. and joe biden himself, in some of the comments he's made in the past, some of the jokes he's told about not wearing orange and things like that, he has deeply upset unionists and he, and frankly you, are not seen as honest brokers there. well, i don't know what the reasoning with that would be. i have had a long—standing relationship all the way back to welcoming dr paisley to the capital of the united states, sat in between he and martin mcguinness during luncheons, a relationship that goes back to even the late 1980s. i think the part of the story that needs to be told is that for the unionist tradition, they are always welcome to these meetings in washington and if we have a disagreement, i don't think that the disagreement ought to stand in the way of what the electorate did. well, yeah, but it does.

i hate to break it to you, i don't want to be cruel, but... you're not breaking it to me, believe me! ..the current leader of the democratic unionist party, jeffrey donaldson, said this after you visited northern ireland in may last year. he described yours as, "the most undiplomatic visit i've ever "seen to these shores". he said that the language you used displayed an alarming ignorance of the concerns of unionism. so, you know, you, joe biden and people like you are simply not trusted by the unionist side. well, i would say that's very different in private, and that is to point out that i had a drink with sirjeffrey when he was in washington. we posed for a picture, we exchanged pleasantries, i urged him to sit in government, and i will only suggest that the exchange was very healthy. you should understand i've known sirjeffrey for a long period of time, i've known the dup for a long period of time. i talked to doug beattie,

i introduced him tojoe biden at the congressional luncheon on st patrick's day. and if we have a difference of opinion, that doesn't mean that we can't embrace two traditions living in one community. well, that sounds lovely... that sounds really lovely, congressman, but let me be blunt about it — you have an agenda, right? you want to see, in your lifetime, as soon as possible, a united ireland. what i want to see is the acknowledgement in the good friday agreement of what we call the principle of consent, and that means that a designated date that the secretary of state for northern ireland would have the opportunity, if so determined, to call a referendum question. that is not up to me to convince the people who live in the north what path they ought to choose, but it is to point out that i think it's, in fairness, everybody relinquished some part of their aspiration, as i noted earlier, to bring about this historic agreement. just a final thought...

yeah, well... ok, so you want to see a referendum as soon as possible on unification. just a final thought... i want a referendum...in time. the police and the secret services are very worried about the potential for an outbreak of serious violence in northern ireland. the police have raised their terror alert status to severe and we've seen at least one very recent attack on a senior police officer. does that affect your thinking and your degree of willingness to intervene in northern ireland? what is important to remember, because you raise a good point, there was universal condemnation of that attack on the police officer. now, that might not have been what would've happened 25 years ago, but i think that you need to point out here the historical risks that people took to bring about this agreement. and even people who might have a different perspective on history thought that it was important to move forward on a reconciled path. as i've noted repeatedly,

that took place after a referendum question which almost 70% of people in the north voted for and 91% of people in the republic voted for. so seeing it through is where we want to land. talking of moving forward, let's just take a quick wider look at the us—uk relationship. no doubt northern ireland and ireland play an important part in that relationship, but there are other elements to it, too. rishi sunak is desperately keen to get a us—uk trade deal negotiated as soon as possible. in the past, you've sounded reluctant to see that trade deal done until northern ireland has been sorted out to your satisfaction. right now, given your support for this so—called windsor framework, are you ready to say it's time for the us and uk to get on with that trade deal? i'm ready to say we're making progress, that we're headed in the right direction. i think the framework that was embraced by the prime minister was the right path, i think, now getting the government up and running.

i have never adopted an intransigent position on a trade agreement. i think it's highly desirable. i think it's a good thing for both nations. we are long allies and friends. we want to make sure, as a guarantor of the good friday agreement, that all of what we put into it now will play out the way that events play out in a representative democracy, which means, in a representative democracy, that we don't get what we want every day, but we hope, through an accord, that we can reach an agreement. so you're still saying, "we in the us definitely tie "progress on a trade deal to being satisfied with what the uk government is doing in northern ireland"? i think that's fair for me to say and i think that would be embraced by a wide swathe of members of congress and certainly the administration. all right. let's get to bigger—picture questions, then, which involve both the us and uk. you talk about the strong alliance between the two. you are, it's fair to say,

in lockstep with london when it comes to support for ukraine. but there are many in the uk, and, indeed, some in the us, who are worried about the sustainability of america's weapons and financial support for ukraine. 0pinion polls suggest that the us public is beginning to feel exhausted with this level of support for ukraine. do you worry about that? i think it's a reason to be concerned. i think, in the base of the republican party today, that there's more apprehension as to what you've just described. but i also would say that, easily — overwhelmingly — members of congress support joe biden�*s position as it relates to ukraine and, certainly, the republican leader in the senate, mitch mcconnell, has outlined that very assertively. the other point here to remember is that for republicans in congress to begin to question the soviet aggression in ukraine, it's entirely contrary to the position of ronald reagan... crosstalk.

well, hang on... yeah, hang on — it's not soviet. i mean, you may believe that putin's acting like an old—style soviet leader but russia is russia, it's not the soviet union, and the point made by ron desantis — potential challenger to donald trump for the republican nomination — was that, in his view, the us did not have a vital strategic interest in east ukraine in the fight between russia and ukraine as it may have had during the cold war. he walked that comment back in about 12 hours and took a much more hard position as it related to russian aggression. and i use the term �*soviet�* because putin has made it clear that he believes that what gorbachev negotiated was one of the great mistakes in the history of russia, which then would lead us into the direction of eastern europe being under the yoke of marxism, the baltic nations, and it was nato, led by the united states and the uk and others, who stood fast in their opposition to soviet aggression,

and now to russian aggression. donald trump sees a political opportunity here because he's telling the us public, "the biden administration has "spent $100 billion and more on its various economic, "military and humanitarian assistance to ukraine" and at the very same time, he says, "our own country "is going to the dogs in various different ways". when the people of springfield, massachusetts come to you and say, "mr congressman, how can we be spending "all of this money to help ukraine when we cannot even "fix our own problems? what do you say to them? well, i represent ukrainians. i have a lot of poles, i have a lot of eastern europeans that are in my constituency, and i think they would share my view. and standing up to russian aggression here is a very important consideration. so, you're not worried that donald trump actually may have found a fault line here which, over the next 18 months, may work rather successfully for him, preying on the fact that many americans feel there are huge

problems still to fix in your own country, rather than spending so much money on trying to help ukraine? well, let me boldly point out that the american soldier and the american taxpayer overwhelmingly finance nato. we continue to carry more than our share in nato. 0ur allies in france, including as ofjust 48 hours ago when finland announced that they were going to join nato, sweden would like to join nato, and the swiss are talking aboutjoining nato. i think that the civilised nations of europe, along with the united states, are speaking with one voice as it relates to putin's punitive pressure. but you're a multi—term congressman. you know how to win elections. i just wonder whether you have noticed that some of your fellow democrats in the house are getting worried about this. just the other day, representative ed case, he said,

"how much bigger is this bill for ukraine going to get? "we have", he said, "to at least anticipate "the possibility the bill could be even higher next year". and that, he suggested, was going to be very difficult. would you agree? and is there a limit to what you think america should...? no, i don't think it's difficult. i think it's part of american foreign policy, it's baked in, and i would say this as one who stood outside the brandenburg gates within days of the collapse of the soviet union, and having walked back and forth through checkpoint charlie, it was a moment of great celebration in the world. all of what we had believed since the russian revolution of 1916 had been put to pasture and i think that when you look back at that triumphal moment, democrats and republicans were of one mind as it related to, at that time, soviet and now russian aggression — and, incidentally, nato worked then and nato works now. all right. let's bring it to domestic us politics and the melodramas that the world has been watching in a courtroom in new york over the past week or so.

donald trump is now arraigned. he faces felony criminal charges. are you tempted to rub your hands with glee or do you see a potential... no. ..element of politicaljeopardy here, for you as a democrat? neither. i am not looking at my career or the democratic party's positions to be jeopardised, nor am i looking at this trial in new york as one that fractures and jeopardises the american jurisprudence system. what i am looking at here is that the district attorney in manhattan brought the charges. they have been unsealed and now, in oursystem... was that misguided of him? i mean, this is historic, it's never happened to a president before and one of your own senior voices in the senate, joe manchin, has expressed sadness, as he puts it, about what he sees as a potentially difficult moment in american politics — and indeed, possibly, for your own party — because there are going to be people

who see this as overreach and also, a political persecution. well, i think that the better idea here is to keep the spotlight on the proceedings and the procedures that will be embraced by the district attorney and the defence team as these differences are sorted in public. in ourjudicial system, the district attorney has the ability to have brought these charges. i'm not suggesting that i wanted this to happen. i'm not suggesting i didn't want it to happen. it certainly is not a moment for american democracy to appear triumphal. i think that what we want to see is to watch these events play out and then, a jury will make that determination. there was a very interesting headline in the new york times the other day. it read "biden has the oval office, but trump "has centre stage". let's talk aboutjoe biden. do you believe that he should, and will, face a serious challenge for the democratic party nomination for 202a? no, he will not face a serious challenge for renomination, that's for sure.

i think that's been very clear that some of his opponents in the last round, they've already indicated fairly aggressively that they intend to support president biden as he seeks re—election. we anticipate that that announcement is just around the corner. and also, i think to point out that without that challenge for renomination, that puts him in a position where he can co—opt, i think, not only the centre but some of the elements on the left as well, so i think that his prognosis right now for re—election is quite strong. interesting, you talk about the centre, you talk about the left. you're a well—known centrist democrat. indeed, in 2020, as biden was approaching power, you warned him not to spend too much money, not to go for an ambitious green deal, not to go for massive medicare expansion. you're a guy who worries about the government spending too much money whenjoe biden has actually spent trillions of dollars on covid relief, on infrastructure, on his inflation reduction act.

do you worry that the american public are going to look at biden and feel that he's been captured by the left of your party? well, i'm pleased to report that i authored much of that legislation, and i did it in tandem with the white house at the time, but i did make the argument then that in the inflation reduction act — which i think is wildly successful so far in terms of implementation and some of the other pieces of legislation — i am still a believer in concentrating on doing a few things very well, rather than doing a lot of things in a mediocre manner. hillary clinton said just the other day that liberals — this is her quote, "liberals risk costing the democrats political power." would you agree? i wouldn't say that they risk costing us power. i think that we, withjoe biden�*s leadership, we can find plenty of room at the table for the centre and the left in the democratic party. but to get on with problem solving, and i would say this —

that, you know, it's easy to be performative in american politics. i think probably you would make the same argument in the uk. what's really hard is sitting in a room for days and days and weeks, negotiating and offering amendments to get legislation which improves lives over the goal line. the easier part is to embrace the narrative. the hard part is offering... inaudible. final point, congressman — and i really do not wish to be ageist, but this is something that's coming from the american people, not from me — joe biden is 80 years old. were he to win a second term, he would finish it age 86. there are various opinion polls which think that a majority of american voters do not think — and i'm quoting an abc poll here, sorry, an nbc poll here — do not think he has, quote, "the necessary mental and physical health "to be president". 54% of voters agreed with that. do you? i travelled with him to cleveland recently and i thought he was in great form. spent two hours talking to him on air force one while we had lunch.

i think that when i've been with him, over the course of the last few weeks, he's clearly on top of his game. crosstalk. do you think the world's greatest superpower should be led by an 86—year—old? well, i think one of the great lessons here is how important winston churchill was in his aged years as well. all right. we have to end there. congressman richard neal, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you, stephen, good to be with you. thank you. hello. tuesday is going to be a day which some of you will have to make the most of the morning weather because it will be a day in which conditions will be quite

rapidly deteriorating, with wet weather spreading to many areas from the south and the west. and by the end of the day, it will be increasingly windy, especially around some western coast and hills. so this developing area of low pressure which is approaching us and no, but through the night, into the morning, got a brief ridge of high pressure, quite a shallow one. so there should be a few showers around into the morning, but a lot of dry and clearer weather and a call to start but a lot of dry and clearer weather and a colder start to the morning as well. even a touch of frost through some sheltered scottish glens. but whilst there will be some cloud across scotland, one or two showers, many start fine and bright. lots of sunshine around make the most of it south west, england, south west, wales, south west and northern ireland. deteriorates rapidly through the morning, that rain spreading through the rest of northern ireland, wales into western england for the end of the afternoon with strengthening winds. temperatures down a little bit on today. but given the strength of the wind and that rain spreading in, it will feel cooler and the winds will be strongest into the first part of the night around these

irish sea coasts and hills that could cause some damage and disruption, particularly in coastal parts. easing a little bit later in the night, rain swept across all areas, lingering in the morning to parts of northern scotland with some snow on the hills. so here's that layer of low pressure as we go into wednesday, slowly pushing its way eastwards. it's going to maintain a windy spell of weather after a brief lull, if you could call it that. the winds will strengthen from the west through the day. some eastern areas actually not a bad morning with some sunshine around. a few showers here later into the afternoon, but frequent showers even some longer spells of rain in the west and the winds really strengthening through the day. so another bout of strong winds, especially across parts of wales and southern england, 56 of gusts possible once again. and believe it or not, some will even struggle to get to seven or eight degrees. it will feel chillier there. some, winter on the tops of the hills area of low pressure gradually starts to migrate a little bit further eastwards into thursday. it becomes less potent. so it will be a breezy day, especially across the south here. fewer showers, but there'll be plenty of showers

elsewhere to begin with. some longer spells of rain in parts of scotland and northern england and temperatures recovering just a touch. but overall, it will be another fairly cool day. more wet weather and windy weather to come on friday. signs of something warmer into the weekend into next week. take care.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines... 0n the 25th anniversary of the good friday agreement — the uk prime minister calls for power sharing to return to northern ireland — as president biden prepares to fly out to visit. but there are appeals for calm in londonderry — as missiles are hurled at the police during an illegal republican parade. china finishes three days of military drills around taiwan — using jets carrying live ammunition. a shooting in the us city of louisville leaves five dead — including the gunman. at least six people are taken to hospital. the us investigates the leaking of dozens of intelligence documents — including details of training

and weaponry for ukraine.