cardiff arms park and that they have sold all these tickets, it is great to see people investing in the game. it is only getting better, isn't it? it is only getting better, isn't it? it is only getting better, isn't it? it is really exciting to see. you can get all the latest sports news at from the bbc sport app, orfrom our website at that's bbc.co.uk/sport. from me and the rest of the team at the bbc sport centre, goodbye. welcome back to bbc news. as we've been reporting, thousands ofjunior doctors in england have begun a four—day strike. their union says they've had 15 years of below—inflation wage rises. the government says the pay claim of 35% is unaffordable. across england there have been picket lines outside hospitals, while more senior doctors including consultants are drafted in to fill staffing gaps. the british medical association says there are plans to pull doctors off

picket lines if lives are in immediate danger. under trade union laws, life—and—limb cover must be provided. live now to london's trafalgar square, where we can speak to nickjohnson, who's at the rally there. what are people saying to you? things are just getting under way here. the rally itself starting in the next few minutes. this will be ground zero for the junior doctors strike in england. this is the second track byjunior doctors in the space of a month. the bma says patrons haven't been met. they are still pushing for about 35% pay increase. in the past hour or so we have heard from downing street who say that that pay increases completely unrealistic and they are not prepared to sit down with the british medical association until they can come to what downing street

says it's a bit more realistic. the man in charge of nhs england has said that this week is expected to cause unparalleled levels of disruption within the health service. it is thought that more than a quarter of a million routine appointments, elective surgeries, other appointments i cant having to be rescheduled because of the shortage of staff and also because the nhs is keen to ensure that emergency critical care is covered. the british medical association has already said it will pull people from those picket lines if it believes lives are at risk. i am joined by one of the junior doctors on strike today. thank you for joining us. you are on strike and one of the co—chairs of the bma committee. the bma isn't budging on 35%, downing street is saying it certainly won't budge. bad?

35%, downing street is saying it certainly won't budge.— 35%, downing street is saying it certainly won't budge. body go from here? thank— certainly won't budge. body go from here? thank you _ certainly won't budge. body go from here? thank you for _ certainly won't budge. body go from here? thank you for having - certainly won't budge. body go from here? thank you for having me. - certainly won't budge. body go from here? thank you for having me. we| here? thank you for having me. we hate maintained that what we are asking _ hate maintained that what we are asking for— hate maintained that what we are asking for is pay restoration. we have _ asking for is pay restoration. we have had — asking for is pay restoration. we have had a — asking for is pay restoration. we have had a pay cut over the last 15 years _ have had a pay cut over the last 15 years we — have had a pay cut over the last 15 years. we just want to restore what we have _ years. we just want to restore what we have lost. we are happy to negotiate _ we have lost. we are happy to negotiate on how we get there but we have had _ negotiate on how we get there but we have had nothing back from mr barclay — have had nothing back from mr barclay. when we met him in march and put _ barclay. when we met him in march and put out — barclay. when we met him in march and put out our position again, not only did _ and put out our position again, not only did we — and put out our position again, not only did we get a credible response, we got _ only did we get a credible response, we got no _ only did we get a credible response, we got no offer whatsoever, so it is impossible — we got no offer whatsoever, so it is impossible to negotiate on the other side is _ impossible to negotiate on the other side is unwilling to negotiate. other— side is unwilling to negotiate. other health workers help or their industrial action while they set down and listen to what the government is offering. mit? down and listen to what the government is offering. why would ou do government is offering. why would you do that? _ government is offering. why would you do that? we _ government is offering. why would you do that? we have _ government is offering. why would you do that? we have seen - government is offering. why would you do that? we have seen this - you do that? we have seen this government treat us with contempt for far— government treat us with contempt for far too— government treat us with contempt for far too long and it has abused our trust — for far too long and it has abused ourtrush it— for far too long and it has abused ourtrust. it is for far too long and it has abused our trust. it is a government that has imposed a contract on us, imposed — has imposed a contract on us, imposed a _ has imposed a contract on us, imposed a wage freeze on us, and

poachedm — imposed a wage freeze on us, and poached... forthem imposed a wage freeze on us, and poached... for them to set the last minute _ poached... for them to set the last minute we — poached... for them to set the last minute we will only speak to you because — minute we will only speak to you because you are on strike isn't honest — because you are on strike isn't honest. we met with mr barclay on the 22nd _ honest. we met with mr barclay on the 22nd of— honest. we met with mr barclay on the 22nd of march and it didn't give us an— the 22nd of march and it didn't give us an offer. — the 22nd of march and it didn't give us an offer, so that shows that he isn't _ us an offer, so that shows that he isn't wiiiing — us an offer, so that shows that he isn't willing to speak to us open and honestly. we isn't willing to speak to us open and honestly-— isn't willing to speak to us open and honestly. isn't willing to speak to us open and honestl . ~ . ., ., ., and honestly. we have heard from a coule of and honestly. we have heard from a coople of bbc _ and honestly. we have heard from a couple of bbc listeners, _ and honestly. we have heard from a couple of bbc listeners, one - and honestly. we have heard from a couple of bbc listeners, one of- and honestly. we have heard from a| couple of bbc listeners, one of them are sad that their husband has been diagnosed with a chronic condition, has been waiting for six months to see a consultant and of course the appointment was cancelled. that was his first appointment with a consultant. he and his wife are saying they are devastated. it is people like that you're harming today. i people like that you're harming toda . ., people like that you're harming toda . . , people like that you're harming toda. . , ., , today. i am sorry to the person you describe that _ today. i am sorry to the person you describe that the _ today. i am sorry to the person you describe that the countless - today. i am sorry to the person you describe that the countless others. describe that the countless others who will— describe that the countless others who will have their apartments postponed, but i think what is the real issue — postponed, but i think what is the real issue is that that person has had to— real issue is that that person has had to wait— real issue is that that person has had to wait six months to be seen by a consultant — had to wait six months to be seen by a consultant. we have 7 million

people — a consultant. we have 7 million people on— a consultant. we have 7 million people on our waiting list and that number— people on our waiting list and that number is — people on our waiting list and that number is growing because we simply don't have _ number is growing because we simply don't have enough staff to see these patients— don't have enough staff to see these patients in— don't have enough staff to see these patients in a timely manner. if we want _ patients in a timely manner. if we want to— patients in a timely manner. if we want to reverse this trajectory and make _ want to reverse this trajectory and make the — want to reverse this trajectory and make the nhs to great health care system _ make the nhs to great health care system that it once was, then we need _ system that it once was, then we need to— system that it once was, then we need to have our voice heard. i don't _ need to have our voice heard. i don't think— need to have our voice heard. i don't think we want to go on strike, we don't _ don't think we want to go on strike, we don't have to go on strike but stay backley won't listen to us so we have — stay backley won't listen to us so we have been forced into this position— we have been forced into this position downing street have said they will— position downing street have said they will i— position downing street have said they will i find it ridiculous that they— they will i find it ridiculous that they won't negotiate. we they will i find it ridiculous that they won't negotiate.— they will i find it ridiculous that they won't negotiate. we have said we will work _ they won't negotiate. we have said we will work constructively - they won't negotiate. we have said we will work constructively and - they won't negotiate. we have said | we will work constructively and how we will work constructively and how we get to pay restoration. any negotiation works with one side putting on their position and the other side putting across theirs. we haven't heard the downing street position. we don't know what we are working with. want to know that he

is serious and that we will work together to find an end to this dispute. whenjunior together to find an end to this dispute. when junior doctors went on strike in 2016 there was no agreement them between the junior doctors and the government and a third party, acas, had to be brought in. they act as a relationship counsellor really to mediate between the two parties and if no movement can be found on this particular occasion that action might have to be taken again. we occasion that action might have to be taken again.— occasion that action might have to be taken again. we have heard from the bma saying _ be taken again. we have heard from the bma saying they _ be taken again. we have heard from the bma saying they cannot - be taken again. we have heard from l the bma saying they cannot guarantee that life should be put at risk because of the strike action, so what happens at the hospital decides that they do need to pull people off that they do need to pull people off that picket line to go and do their job in the case of a dire emergency? as far as the logistics group, that is something we haven't really been party to, some think that the

british medical association haven't shared. what they have a us says they have mentioned a number of times a part of their union charger is that they provide life and limb cover, and that includes on strike days. in the case if lives are at risk they will not hesitate in pulling people from the picket lines. ., ~' , ., ~ pulling people from the picket lines. . ,, , ., . ., lines. thank you. we will have len lines. thank you. we will have plenty more — lines. thank you. we will have plenty more from _ lines. thank you. we will have plenty more from you - lines. thank you. we will have plenty more from you from - lines. thank you. we will have - plenty more from you from central london. the government reacted to the strikes, defining the choice of the union as "regrettable". here is the health secretary, steve barclay. i deeply regret these strikes and in particular the timing, which has been timed deliberately coming straight after easter, the fact that the bma junior doctors have asked their members not to tell nhs managers whether they intended to go on strike or not, making contingency planning more difficult, and also their refusal to agree any national exemptions. other health unions like the royal college of nursing agreed national exemptions, particularly for cancer patients, so that those patients weren't impacted. the junior doctors committee has

refused any national exemptions, and obviously, that puts patients at greater risk. but we are working very hard to mitigate those impacts. i had a call again with nhs england yesterday looking at contingency measures in place. i want to thank people across the nhs, particularly the consultants, the nurses and the many staff who are working today to mitigate the impact on the strikes. a huge amount of effort is going in to mitigate the impact of the strikes to ensure that emergency cover is there. the clear message to the public is for those who need the nhs, the nhs will be there in terms of responding to urgent calls, but to be mindful of the demands that they place on the nhs. but a huge amount of effort has gone into the contingency planning and the measures in place, given the effect of the strikes. but clearly, they have been timed to have an impact on patients and i think that is very regrettable. the government has shown

that it is willing to listen and to engage in meaningful and constructive talks. we had those talks with other health unions, with the agenda for change staff. we had a recommendation from the nhs staff counsel to their members, based on those meaningful and constructive discussions that we had. we also listened to doctors in terms of pension changes. the chancellor announced those pension changes in the budget. so the government has engaged constructively. my door is open and we remain willing to engage constructively with thejunior doctors, but clearly, a demand of 35%, which would involve some junior doctors receiving over £20,000 more in terms of their basic pay, is not reasonable to your viewers, to those who have to balance the wider issues of the economy in getting inflation down, alongside recognising the very real pressures that the nhs and junior doctors have been under, not least from the pandemic. the labour party has responded to the govenrnment saying that there's not been any significant improvement in people's lives whilst the conservatives have been in office. here is the shadow chancellor

of the exchequer, rachel reeves. well, the creation of the national health service is one of the proudest ever achievements of any government and of course it was a labour government to be brought in the national health service in 1948. it is incredibly important to have a health service that is free at the point of need when you need it most. at this conservative government has been running our public services, whether it is our schools, our criminaljustice whether it is our schools, our criminal justice system whether it is our schools, our criminaljustice system or our health service into the ground. the question that people are asking is me and my family better off than when the conservatives came into government and are any of the public services working better since the conservatives took power 13 years ago? of course, the answer to the question is no.

with more on this — let's cross to the newsroom — and speak to our health correspondent, jim reid. tell us what this dispute is about and whyjunior doctors say they are fighting for this 35% pay rise. it fighting for this 35% pay rise. it is all about the money, but also about other aspects of their working conditions as well. on the money, junior doctors, their argument has been that over the past 15 years, since 2008, which forjunior doctors have fallen significantly below the rate of inflation. the figure they use is 26% below the cost of living. to bring that back up to where we were in 2008, that would involve a 35% pay increase. it depends on which figures you use. if you use a different measure of inflation, the cpi badger, that 26% comes down to 16%. it does completely depend on which way you want to view it.

nevertheless, thejunior which way you want to view it. nevertheless, the junior doctors argue that they are entitled to do is completely depends on which way you want to view it. nevertheless, the junior doctors argued that they are entitled to this pay increase. that has been called by the government excessive. they say that for the best paid junior doctors it would mean a £20,000 a year pay increase on a single year. again, because of the wide range of wages thatjunior doctors are paid, the government are picking the best paid junior doctor, between 60— £80,000 a year, to bma will come back and say the lowest paid junior doctors are paid around £14 an hour when they have just qualified from university. it depends on which bit of the pay scale you back. it seems like both sides are miles apart in this dispute at the moment. the government is accusing the bma of just refusing to compromise on sticking to this 35% demand. the bma said that is not true at the what

the government to come back with a realistic offer to start these negotiations in earnest. at the moment it seems to both sites in the long way apart on this and there doesn't say much possibility of them coming together with any sort of reconciliation as things stand. thea;r reconciliation as things stand. they are both really _ reconciliation as things stand. they are both really entrenched in their positions. let's talk about what the term junior doctor means. it can go from somebody straight out of medical school right up to consultant, is that right? it is medical school right up to consultant, is that right? it is a very misleading _ consultant, is that right? it is a very misleading term. - consultant, is that right? it is a very misleading term. it - consultant, is that right? it is a i very misleading term. it suggests and he is perhaps a student. that is not really what a junior doctor is. to become a doctor in the uk you generally have to do between four and seven years in medical school. at that point she would become a junior doctor. then he would normally due to years of foundation training, that is the basis of being a doctor, the general principles.

you would normally be learning at the same time as treating patients with more senior doctors who are looking at your work and moderating your work. so, after two years she would then normally do somewhere between five and eight years specialising in a certain type of medicine, that could be coming at gp, family doctor, specialising in geriatric care or in different types of brain surgery, in neonatal, and maternity care. at that point you need to decide which specialism you want to go into. in terms of the pay forjunior doctors, and that first for junior doctors, and that first foundation forjunior doctors, and that first foundation year as a doctor you are generally going to get paid about £30,000 a year, slightly to adapt the outcome as your basic salary. then you will get paid maybe 10% or 20% extra in terms of overtime, weekend shifts, night shifts. that will take you up to roughly £40,000.

after five years of being a junior doctor that does increase quite dramatically, so you will be more likely to be earning a basic salary of roughly £60,000, and you will get 10% to 20% extra unsocial hours. how does that compare internationally? it is sometimes difficult to know depending on which country you pick because of the weather doctors are categorised as very different across different countries. generally, fully qualified doctor will get paid significantly more in a country like australia, which has been an issue because a large number ofjunior doctors had been working abroad recently, and that is one argument that the bma has to increase wages. in the united states, germany, to pay off a fully qualified doctor is greater than it would be in the united kingdom. however, looking at

other countries, like spain or france, the pay of doctors