live from washington, this is bbc news. twitter�*s ceo, elon musk, sits down with the bbc for an exclusive interview. it's been quite painful but at the end of the day i think it should have been done. were there many mistakes made along the way? of course. president biden begins his three—day—visit to the republic of ireland. and us inflation starts to cool but more rate hikes could be on the way. hello, i'm sumi somaskanda. it was watched live by more than three million people, it was hastily arranged, but in an exclusive

interview with bbc, elon musk, the owner of twitter, admitted he only went through with the purchase of the company because a judge was about force him to do so, that his takeover of twitter was painful and quite a rollercoaster, but that he would sell the company if the right person came along. musk purchased twitter for a whopping $41; billion, just over £35 billion pounds. just over £35 billion. he inherited a workforce of over 8,000 employee which he has defended cutting down to around 1,500, saying the company would have gone bankrupt otherwise. it's been just over a year since mr musk began his takeover of twitter. he purchased his first shares on 5 april, 2022, buying 9%. days later, musk submitted an offer to buy the whole company, above the current stock price. that was accepted on the 25th of april. in may, musk tweeted that the deal to buy twitter was temporarily on hold, he said because of the volume of fake accounts. twitter denied that

and invited musk to a meeting, which hejoined remotely. they were unable to agree over the bots issue. twitter then sued, in an attempt to force the deal through the courts, with a date set for october 17. but before that could trial went ahead, musk agreed to buy the company. we want to go through some of the key points of this interview is kara swisher. she's the host of two podcasts, on with kara swisher and pivot and has covered musk for years. kara, i want to play this part of the interview from elon musk, when asked about if he has any regrets about buying twitter. take a listen. the pain level of twitter has been extremely high. it has not been extremely high. it has not been some sort of party. it has been some sort of party. it has been really quite stressful situation over the last several

months, not an easy one. so it has been quite painful but i think at the end of the day, it should have been done. whether many mistakes made along the way? of course. but all is well that ends well and i feel like we are headed to a good place. you know, we are roughly breaking even. we hope to be positive very soon, literally in a matter of months. what you make of elon — in a matter of months. what you make of elon musk— in a matter of months. what you make of elon musk calling - in a matter of months. what you make of elon musk calling this i make of elon musk calling this experience painful? i do make of elon musk calling this experience painful?— experience painful? i do not know what _ experience painful? i do not know what to _ experience painful? i do not know what to say. _ experience painful? i do not know what to say. here's i experience painful? i do not| know what to say. here's the one that has caused pain, in terms of how he fired people and the mistakes he made. mistakes are very typical of him and many people on silicon valley say he made the

mistakes. it was an interesting interview because he acted as though it was all forced upon him and he was a victim, it is afun, that him and he was a victim, it is a fun, that is what these people do a lot of the time but he is the one causing all the problems, all the changes and to me i think he should take responsibility for it and not talk about the pain.- responsibility for it and not talk about the pain. why don't ou think talk about the pain. why don't you think he — talk about the pain. why don't you think he is _ talk about the pain. why don't you think he is doing - talk about the pain. why don't you think he is doing that? - talk about the pain. why don't you think he is doing that? i i you think he is doing that? i do not know what to tell you about the silicon valley people, it is never their fault. they want to come in and play the saviour and endure the pain, he has behaved badly on the platform, he may get to cash flow positive but it is certainly a much smaller business now, a smaller footprint. it wasn't very big to start with. i am not a psychologist and do not know why he sent it, but it is funny to hear someone in complete charge saying they are in pain

compared to everybody else, 0k, sure. ., ., sure. you mentioned the hiring and firing. _ sure. you mentioned the hiring and firing, 6500 _ sure. you mentioned the hiring and firing, 6500 employees - sure. you mentioned the hiring | and firing, 6500 employees laid off, down from 8000 employees. i want to show a clip from this. , , , i want to show a clip from this. ,, , , this. the issue is, the company is either going _ this. the issue is, the company is either going to _ this. the issue is, the company is either going to go _ this. the issue is, the company is either going to go bankrupt l is either going to go bankrupt if you do not cut costs immediately. this is not an uncaring situation, if the whole ship sinks, then nobody has got a job. but whole ship sinks, then nobody has got a job-— has got a 'ob. but a lot of --eole has got a job. but a lot of people just _ has got a job. but a lot of people just lost _ has got a job. but a lot of people just lost their - has got a job. but a lot of people just lost theirjobs people just lost their jobs like that. they did not even know that lost their job. let know that lost their 'ob. let me ask you. h know that lost theirjob. let me ask you, what would you do? you might want to give some by the way, i am not running twitter. this is a criticism. aha, twitter. this is a criticism. little bit of notice. i understand. you have for months to live, i20 understand. you have for months to live, 120 days. in 120 days

you are dead.— you are dead. was that the company — you are dead. was that the company really _ you are dead. was that the company really about - you are dead. was that the company really about to i you are dead. was that the j company really about to go bankrupt? where these cuts really necessary? for bankrupt? where these cuts really necessary?— really necessary? for years many of — really necessary? for years many of us _ really necessary? for years many of us have _ really necessary? for years many of us have talked - really necessary? for years l many of us have talked about how overstaffed a lot of these tech companies row. twitter was doing a cake, it never did great. i do not think it was in immediate danger of bankruptcy. he creates a crisis and makes the crisis and he also managed to repel advertisers by his behaviour. they were in trouble because advertisers led the platform. they were lucky it just fine and then he attacked them and then they fled. and then he did the crazy thing about twitter blue. it was not anything kind of imminent danger he is talking about. it was not doing well, it is a public company, everyone can see the numbers and it was not going bankrupt anytime soon. he

was getting rid of people on twitter he did not want to have any more?— any more? the correct thing would be — any more? the correct thing would be to _ any more? the correct thing would be to cut _ any more? the correct thing would be to cut staff, - any more? the correct thing would be to cut staff, there | would be to cut staff, there was too much stuff but you do not also at the same time cut necessary stuff around safety, advertising and all kinds of things. he can do whatever he wants, he paid 44 billion dollars for it and he can get to... he still has to find a business here. —— $41; million. again, someone who was thinking it was too staffed with people and badly run but it does not mean this is a better version. you are cutting costs, if you cut costs, if you have some possible income you will get to cash flow positive but what is that? will he manage that because he's a very talented

quy because he's a very talented guy but it is not bigger, or better or improve. there is no innovation. just as always, it is the same old twitterjust with another boss. may be, maybe if he does a payment system. so far everything he has done has not worked but does not mean that he can come up does not mean that he can come up with something. it is the old saying, you can fail and fail but ultimately it is about not having found the right way. maybe if they changed into a system, there are all kinds of things they it but we will see. i'm looking forward to him fixing this company but so far he has not done so.— fixing this company but so far he has not done so. elon musk does not _ he has not done so. elon musk does not think _ he has not done so. elon musk does not think it _ he has not done so. elon musk does not think it is _ he has not done so. elon musk does not think it is the - he has not done so. elon musk does not think it is the same i does not think it is the same old twitter. he calls it a beacon of free speech. he talks specifically about this aim of making twitter a platform for free speech.

making twitter a platform for free speech-— making twitter a platform for free speech. close to half the country voted _ free speech. close to half the country voted for _ free speech. close to half the country voted for donald - free speech. close to half the i country voted for donald trump. i was not one of them, i voted forjoe biden. nonetheless, free speech is meaningless unless you allow people you do not like to say things you do not like to say things you do not like, otherwise it is irrelevant. at the point which you lose free speech, it does not come back. i you lose free speech, it does not come back.— not come back. i think the issue some _ not come back. i think the issue some people - not come back. i think the issue some people have, l not come back. i think the| issue some people have, a not come back. i think the - issue some people have, a lot of people were brought back. some people were bad for spinning things like you were not conspiracy, hate speech. do you think you prioritise freedom of speech over misinformation and hate speech? who is to say that something is misinformation? who is the arbiter of that?— arbiter of that? this was perhaps _ arbiter of that? this was perhaps one _ arbiter of that? this was perhaps one of - arbiter of that? this was perhaps one of the -

arbiter of that? this wasj perhaps one of the most contentious part of the interviews. it contentious part of the interviews.— contentious part of the interviews. , . , interviews. it is at this same old nonsense _ interviews. it is at this same old nonsense they _ interviews. it is at this same old nonsense they say. - interviews. it is at this same l old nonsense they say. people have been able to talk on twitter forever. have been able to talk on twitterforever. lots have been able to talk on twitter forever. lots of people get to say whatever they want on that platform. they have to just create a crisis and pretend that they fixed it. this was not a platform which was particularly sensitive. they took off donald trump after he was treating unfortunate things after the insurrection. i thought it was the right goal. did not like one person maiden. but it was the right goal. —— made it. they fixed things rather quickly when they made stupid goals. it is a private platform. by the way. it is just this company that sells advertising and to act like it is this a beacon of free speech and also he cuts people's speech. he does it all the

time. it is such nonsense and hypocrisy, it is exhausting to watch on some level. [30 hypocrisy, it is exhausting to watch on some level.- hypocrisy, it is exhausting to watch on some level. do you get an idea of _ watch on some level. do you get an idea of what _ watch on some level. do you get an idea of what his _ watch on some level. do you get an idea of what his of— watch on some level. do you get an idea of what his of free - an idea of what his of free speech is?— an idea of what his of free seech is? ~ . speech is? whatever he thinks it is that day. _ speech is? whatever he thinks it is that day. whatever - speech is? whatever he thinks it is that day. whatever he - it is that day. whatever he decides that some 3am moment, thatis decides that some 3am moment, that is what it is. we will cut off whoever he was. it is his right, he bought the company, he overpaid for it, he can do whatever he wants on the platform but to put himself up as george washington or thomas jefferson is funny to watch, it is not true. facebook and twitter made mistakes sometime but there is certainly no body that was say that twitter... make that most people have been able to communicate on twitter and who with the arbitrator of and who with the arbitrator of a facts? are you kidding! if there are facts in the world. dismissing misinformation especially at that level of

player is nonsense. there are malevolent players who tried to change people's attitudes and put out information that is not true for the wrong reason. i5 true for the wrong reason. is it true to say that those level of actors have a voice since elon musk took over because mac is hate speech on the rise? it is hate speech on the rise? it isjust not being regulated is just not being regulated because he fired everybody who did that. i'm talking about twitter, twitter is not a very big platform. if you want to talk about big platforms it is facebook and instagram and a bunch in china. this is a little platform with an outsized voice. it has become sort of a waste dump for me,

thatis sort of a waste dump for me, that is a personal thing for me. we never happened before. i do not know what to say, yes, it is worse, to me it is most but that is just my experience. i do not want advantage to get ijy i do not want advantage to get by re— platform and but again, he paid for it. he by re- platform and but again, he paid for it.— he paid for it. he talked about tiktok, and — he paid for it. he talked about tiktok, and the _ he paid for it. he talked about tiktok, and the prospect - he paid for it. he talked about tiktok, and the prospect of. tiktok, and the prospect of that been banned. i tiktok, and the prospect of that been banned.- tiktok, and the prospect of that been banned. i hear many --eole that been banned. i hear many people tell _ that been banned. i hear many people tell me _ that been banned. i hear many people tell me they _ that been banned. i hear many people tell me they spent - that been banned. i hear many people tell me they spent a i that been banned. i hear manyj people tell me they spent a lot of time on tiktok and they regret the time spent and that seems, 0k, we do not want to have regret, we want to have time where you learned things, you are entertain, amuse. i regret that. i get more laughs out of twitter than anything else and many people tell me the same things so that is a good sign. tiktok itself, i just do not know enough about what is going on there. i

cannot say i have a strong opinion on tiktok. so cannot say i have a strong opinion on tiktok.- cannot say i have a strong opinion on tiktok. so do not have an opinion _ opinion on tiktok. so do not have an opinion on - opinion on tiktok. so do not have an opinion on whetherl opinion on tiktok. so do not| have an opinion on whether it should be banned or not? you know, i should be banned or not? you know. i am — should be banned or not? you know, i am generally - should be banned or not? ym. know, i am generally against banning things.— banning things. what do you think of that _ banning things. what do you think of that perspective? i l banning things. what do you i think of that perspective? i do not think it — think of that perspective? i do not think it matters _ think of that perspective? i if not think it matters what he thinks about tiktok. the fact he says twitter is more entertaining than tiktok is another piece of nonsense. leaving aside the issue of the chinese communist party, it is a fantastic platform. it is a really good product. it is very entertaining and that is why people like it. it is not social media to me, it is entertainment. i don't think it can be banned, that is another issue. you know who is getting all the advertising until recently? it is tiktok. that

who getting the business. twitter has followed behind and it never reached the level of tiktok. ii it never reached the level of tiktok. . ., it never reached the level of tiktok. _, ., a it never reached the level of tiktok. _, ., i. tiktok. if i could ask you, what did _ tiktok. if i could ask you, what did you _ tiktok. if i could ask you, what did you think- tiktok. if i could ask you, what did you think of- tiktok. if i could ask you, what did you think of his l what did you think of his demeanour during this interview? it demeanour during this interview?— demeanour during this interview? , ~ interview? it sounds like him. he can be _ interview? it sounds like him. he can be very _ interview? it sounds like him. he can be very reasonable. i i he can be very reasonable. i think his persona on twitter is very different than his persona when talking to you. i think he says things that are not accurate but that is ok, a lot of people do that, they do their talking points and that is typical of someone like him or a leader of company. he sounded like... except for being in pain, and i am sorry he's pain, he seemed fine, he seemed good. it sounds like he usually does. seemed good. it sounds like he usually does-— usually does. really good to net our usually does. really good to get your thoughts _ usually does. really good to get your thoughts on - usually does. really good to get your thoughts on this i get your thoughts on this interview. thank you for joining us on the bbc.

around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. a day out at the activity centre, learning how to make a bonfire, archery, shooting, and tobogganing. he is the difference, thanks to this group about back to nature, it's free. ., group about back to nature, it's free-— it's free. there are various kids today _ it's free. there are various kids today that _ it's free. there are various kids today that we've - it's free. there are various kids today that we've seen before in the last few weeks, but also there's loads of kids that are recognised from devious years as well that have turned up again today.- devious years as well that have turned up again today. botin 80 is bristol-based _ turned up again today. botin 80 is bristol-based and _ turned up again today. botin 80 is bristol-based and runs - is bristol—based and runs nature—based days out for children from families where money is tight. they also offer breakfast, lunch, dinnerto breakfast, lunch, dinner to those breakfast, lunch, dinnerto those taking part. breakfast, lunch, dinner to those taking part.- breakfast, lunch, dinner to those taking part. today would have cost. _ those taking part. today would have cost, without _ those taking part. today would have cost, without the - those taking part. today would have cost, without the cost, i have cost, without the cost, and it would have been about £60 per child. for and it would have been about £60 per child.— and it would have been about £60 per child. for the children it's about _ £60 per child. for the children it's about experiencing - it's about experiencing something new. i it's about experiencing something new.- it's about experiencing something new. it's about experiencing somethin: new. ., . something new. i love that we are making — something new. i love that we are making fire _ something new. i love that we are making fire out _ something new. i love that we are making fire out of- something new. i love that we are making fire out of wood. l are making fire out of wood. i've found out that's really fun. ~ �* ., �*

fun. when i've heard we're ttoin fun. when i've heard we're going to — fun. when i've heard we're going to bushfires - fun. when i've heard we're going to bushfires and - fun. when i've heard we're| going to bushfires and stuff like that i got really excited, because _ like that i got really excited, because they got to light a fire by— because they got to light a fire by myself. you're live with bbc news. we're going to take a closer look at our news out of northern ireland, where us presidentjoe biden has made a brief visit to mark 25 years of the good friday agreement, the peace agreement which ended decades of violent conflict. president biden touched down in belfast on tuesday evening. on wednesday, he had tea with uk prime minister rishi sunak, before speaking to some of northern ireland's political leaders. he also made a pit stop at ulster university, for a speech where he reflected on the anniversary. every person killed any troubles left an empty chair at the dining room table and a whole in the hearts is never filled for the ones they lost. peace was not inevitable. we

can't ever forget that. now, notably, what we did not see president biden do was deliver an official address local lawmakers. it's because of more recent political divisions. let's take a look. a part of the good friday agreement was devolved government in northern ireland. what you're looking at here is stormont — that's where the northern ireland assembly sits. in february last year, then first minister — dup�*s paul givan — resigned in protest over a brexit agreement known as the northern ireland protocol. the move meant the northern ireland executive couldn't meet, and ministers couldn't take decisions. a stalemate. in may, an election saw nationalist party sinn fein take majority for the first time. from those results, this woman, michelle 0'neil, should have been appointed first minister. but sinn fein cannot take up power until the dup names a deputy. and for now it's refusing to do so. for that reason the assembly cannot sit. president biden directly addressed this. let's hearfrom him once more.

a government that works to find ways through hard problems together is going to draw even greater opportunity in this region. so i hope the asembly and the executive will still be at domont, that is a judgement for you, at domont, that is a judgement foryou, not at domont, that is a judgement for you, not me, at domont, that is a judgement foryou, not me, but at domont, that is a judgement for you, not me, but i hope that happens. —— stormont. let's take a closer look at what's at the heart of this disagreement and stalemate — the northern ireland protocol. when brexit happened all parties involved agreed the border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland should stay open. that was seen as important, given the history of political violence there, to maintain the peace. so northern ireland remained in the eu's single market for goods even while the rest of the united kingdom, left. under the protocol, goods are checked as they arrive in northern ireland — to make sure they comply with the rules of the

eu's single market. but unionists say the protocol creates a barrier between northern ireland and the rest of the uk. in late february, uk prime minister rishi sunak met with eu commission president ursula von der leyen, and a new deal was created. among the provisions, the northern ireland assembly would be able to pull an emergency brake for changes to eu goods rules. but the dup has refused this deal too. speaking earlier, leader sirjeffrey donaldson says his party's not under any pressure to return to power sharing. the solution won't be found in speeches made at stormont, it will be found in the hard graft and the hard yards that we need to undertake to get this right and that's what i'm determined to do, to get it right, and i will continue for as long as it takes to get the foundations, the strong foundations, that northern ireland needs to move forward together as part of the united kingdom. also listening to president biden's speech at ulster university was sinn fein's vice president and assembly leader, michelle 0'neill. she was asked about the political deadlock. here's her response: 0bviously from a personal point of view oh would like to have been greeting the president,

but i'm not going to be distracted from the back that this is a very positive opportunity that has been presented to us. the fact that the president is here document the president is here document the fact that they have stayed the fact that they have stayed the course with us over the past 25 years and they are as equally committed to stay for the next 25 years. but that they are actively talking about investment and the opportunities that they are. i'm going to grab them with both hands. so i think this is a moment in time... so, sinn fein's assembly leader won't be distracted, but for now the deadlock still very much intact. there have been several deadlines for the northern ireland assembly to return to government, but they've each passed. in february, uk's secretary of state for northern ireland, chris heaton—harris, introduced legislation to extend the window to find a solution untiljanuary 2021t. but he doesn't seem too sure of when this would be resolved, saying on friday anyone predicting a return date "would be someone who could also sell you a four—leaf clover. " as for us presidentjoe biden, his tour continues in the republic of ireland. 0ur ireland correspondent chris page has more on his upcoming schedule.

now the focus is moving onto more more ceremonial events. he will formally meet the iris president michael d higgins and he will have talks with the leader of the irish government leo varadkar, then he will give an address to parliamentarians in dublin. he is the fourth us president to be given a particular honour afterjohn f kennedy, ronald reagan, and bill clinton, all of whom were descended from emigrants from the island of ireland. many countries around the world are grappling with soaring inflation. and for more than a year, america's central bank, the federal reserve, has been raising interest rates in a bid to cool inflation. new us financial data suggests the policy might finally be paying off. prices in shops rose 5% in march — the smallest increase in almost two years. but the more closely watched figure, core inflation, which takes out more volatile food and energy prices, actually increased by 0.1% from the year before. samira hussain has more.

the latest figures in the us show that inflation is starting to call, but it still remains stubbornly high. and of all the risks to the american economy, really high inflation remains the biggest stop and is why america's central bank, the federal reserve, has been raising interest rates, by making it more expensive to borrow money is to bring down the cost of goods. now, this is not a uniquely american problem. countries around the world are facing this. so how long will we be living in an era of high interest rates? well, i've put the question to the deputy managing director of the deputy managing director of the international monetary fund, guto beb and us. fiur fund, guto beb and us. our expectation _ fund, guto beb and us. our expectation is _ fund, guto beb and us. our expectation is that - fund, guto beb and us. our expectation is that it - fund, guto beb and us. oi" expectation is that it is going to take more time to bring core inflation down in many of the economies of the world it has been stubbornly high. francis, if you think of the us, we expect interest rates to stay

at around that point around the ballpark and then next year we could see changes. but for now we think interest rates will have to stay high for several more quarters to be able to bring inflation down. so even thou:h bring inflation down. so even though it's — bring inflation down. so even though it's risky _ bring inflation down. so even though it's risky to _ bring inflation down. so even though it's risky to keep - though it's risky to keep raising interest rates, tackling high inflation should still be the focus. but there is hope. low interest rates may be around the corner. samira hussain, bbc news, washington. climate warming emissions linked to electricity production are expected to fall this year because of a boom in renewables. the energy analysts ember say 2023 is likely to see the first fall in the use of coal, oil and gas, apart from years which experienced worldwide recession or the covid pandemic. 0ur correspondent, matt mcgrath, spent the morning wind energy has become increasingly poor —— important part of the british landscape. even in these valleys was once famed for the production of coal, wind last year increased by 23% in terms of electricity

produced. around the rest of the world it is a different story, zola has dominated, even in countries like the netherlands, not traditionally associated with sunny weather. the big move in all of this is of course china. it remains there will�*s biggest consumer of coal but it is a global giant insole and windfarm. around the world last year, one in five panels installed was installed on a chinese roof. despite all this progress emissions from making electricity increase —— chris last year. that is because values of electric cars and heat pumps and other gadgets outpace the growth of renewables. now, this year according to energy analyst debbie abbott that is going to change. growth renewables will outpace demand and actually we might see the first fall in the use of fossil fuels like coal, oil, gas and making electricity outside of years of pandemic and recession. it's a small but important step in the battle against climate change and staving off the worst impacts.

i'm sumi somaskanda in washington. thanks for watching bbc news. hello there. storm noa has been bringing problems to transport, with road, rail, ferries and airports affected. meanwhile, out to sea, some wild weather in cornwall, with these large, mountainous waves pummelling the coastline. some of the waves were thought to be about eight metres high. that's the same height as two double decker buses stacked on top of each other. storm noa, then, has certainly been making its impact felt. it's this swirl of cloud you can see here on the satellite picture. and the top wind speed was recorded, as it often is in such storms, at the needles on the isle of wight , a very exposed site — at 96 miles an hour. elsewhere, well into the 70s. even across inland parts of southern england, we had gusts into the 60s of miles an hour and that was strong enough to blow over a few trees. now, over the next few hours, those very strong winds are starting to calm down. it's still quite windy, though, for wales and south—west england. temperatures coming down to between 3 and 6 celsius,

very similar to what we've seen over recent nights. now, heading into thursday, it should be a fine start to the day for many for england and wales. there'll be showers across northern england, showers for scotland and northern ireland. and i think through the day, there is a chance that some of these showers, particularly for southern and eastern scotland, into eastern areas of england, well, they could merge together to give some longer spells of rain. and some of the rain heavy with some hail and thunder mixed in and temperatures still below par. but when the sunshine comes out, out of the breeze, probably not feeling too bad. probably not feeling too good on friday across southern parts of england and wales, with another area of low pressure moving in, bringing outbreaks of rain widely. some of that's going to be quite heavy as well, whereas the further north you are, you will see showers and thunderstorms, some of them, again, merging together to give some longer spells of rain, so staying very unsettled and pretty cool again for april. highs only reaching around 12 or 13 degrees at best. however, as we get into the weekend, things start to cheer up. the south—westerly winds start to blow away some of that cooler air and the high pressure starts to flex its muscles. now, on saturday, there'll still be a few showers around, maybe a few morning mist and fog patches to clear, but there'll be

some bright or sunny spells and, overall, it's a better kind of day weather—wise. temperatures climbing. we're looking at highs of 15 in glasgow, 15 in norwich and for london as well. and that's just the start of things, because through sunday and into next week, it gets even warmer. indeed, next week, for the first time this year, we should see highs hit 20.

voice-over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. hello, welcome to this latest edition of the media show, and we will spend the programme talking about china's media strategy. i'm sure you have seen tiktok has been in the news. its ceo was in front of us lawmakers taking lots of questions about whether tiktok, which is owned by a chinese company, potentially poses a security threat to the us. now, tiktok absolutely denies that.

chinese state spokespeople have been saying they deny that as well.