live from washington, this is bbc news. welcome to viewers on pbs in america. the person behind a massive leak of us classified documents may have worked on a military base. that's according to an investigation by the washington post. we'll speak to one of the journalists who broke the story. and twitter�*s ceo, elon musk, sits down with the bbc for an exclusive interview. it has been quite painful, but it has been quite painful, but i think at the end of the day, it should have been done. were there many mistakes made along there many mistakes made along the way? of course. hello, i'm sumi somaskanda. we're going to start

with the leaked us intelligence documents, and a new report about who the source of those lea ks may be. the files, you might remember, first appeared in a chatroom on the online platform, discord. the washington post says it's spoken to at least two members of that chatroom, one who says they're friends with the alleged leaker. here's the headline: "leaker of us secret documents worked on military base, friend says". the article talks about the alleged leaker�*s motivation, throughout, he's referred to as 06. "for all og's disdain for the federal government, the member said there was no indication that he was acting in what he thought was the public interest by exposing official secrets. with me now is shane harris, national security reporter

from the washington post, one of the journalists who worked on the investigation. thank you very much forjoining us. what more can you tell us about this alleged liquor? us. what more can you tell us about this alleged liquor? we about this alleged liquor? - understand that at the beginning of the pandemic he kind of became this leader of this far—flung group of men and boys, a number of teenagers who were cut off from the world, were cut off from the world, were interested in gaming and he gathered them together in this discord space and what they understood what he worked on a military base and he had access to highly classified he started sharing this information as a way, they said, of trying to both educate these followers in his group, has online family about the world, world events and really it seems to try to impress them, to try to come across to them, to try to come across to them as someone who is deeply informed but also had information to secret and information to secret and information that ordinary people did not, and over the course of many months starting

last year, started sharing highly classified information that these individuals were of course not authorised to see, that he appears to have removed from a facility where he worked and this information was housed, either on a computer or some other system and brought it back to his home and shared it back to his home and shared it with these people and what we are seeing now coming out in these extraordinary leaks of these extraordinary lea ks of classified these extraordinary leaks of classified documents that people have seen is part of that giant tranche that he was sharing with this online family many, many months. this sharing with this online family many, many months.- many, many months. this is . uite many, many months. this is quite the — many, many months. this is quite the revelation, - many, many months. this is quite the revelation, the - many, many months. this is i quite the revelation, the story has just broke essentially in the last few hours. what can you tell us about the other members of the group? are they reliable sources? we members of the group? are they reliable sources?— reliable sources? we think so. we have interviewed - reliable sources? we think so. we have interviewed a - reliable sources? we think so. | we have interviewed a number reliable sources? we think so. i we have interviewed a number of them and one in particularfor many hours over a number of days and had corroborating information including documents, including copies of chat, texts and messages. we saw photographs of the

individuals we spoke to with this individual they call 06, communicating and the chat room stop they also showed us what they said with a video of this individual where he is speaking and actually firing a rifle in the video so we were able to corroborate a lot of this and have some confidence in the individuals and they have to say, this tories, they corroborate each other and they line up with a lot of the public data points as well and what is interesting is, the information, before we broke this story, if you look at the documents on the nature of them, it pointed to someone who was working in a government facility who was actually printing these pages out and removing them. if you look at the photographs of the documents we have seen, you see that they are actually printed on paper and they have been folded into forwards in a way that suggests some body was trying to perhaps surreptitiously remove them from wherever they printed them. so this really did line up them. so this really did line up with what we were able to visibly see in the documents. i

visibly see in the documents. i want to bring up one of the quotes in the article. you quoted a member you spoke to saying: how do these members know that is true? �* .., , how do these members know that is true? �* , how do these members know that istrue? �* , , is true? because he was very clear with — is true? because he was very clear with them _ is true? because he was very clear with them about - is true? because he was very clear with them about what l is true? because he was very | clear with them about what he was doing. he said that he was sharing secret information with them, and saying this to try to impress them. he wanted more people in the room to be reading this and what i've found fascinating was, these two dozen or so people who were gathered together in this room playing games, chatting, watching movies, most of them, we understand, we're just not that interested in what this man had to say. he was actually very frustrated that more people weren't impressed by the documents that he was dropping in front of them but a few of them did understand it and wanted to know more and these were two of the people who we spoke with who indicated to us that they understood what this was and were actually quite

impressed by it and what they also found the remarkable was one of them said they do not believe this person 06 was acting as a whistleblower stopper he wasn't sharing information to try to publicly expose wrongdoing by the government, he was doing it to try to impress his friends, many of whom were teenage boys. it is just many of whom were teenage boys. it isjust an many of whom were teenage boys. it is just an incredible story, it is just an incredible story, i have never encountered a disclosure of classified information that has these contours to at.— information that has these contours to at. that element about him — contours to at. that element about him not _ contours to at. that element about him not being - contours to at. that element about him not being a - about him not being a whistleblower, i think we have that direct quote from the article we can look at right now where the member says: but how are they certain that he is not in fact a russian or ukrainian operative? i he is not in fact a russian or ukrainian operative?- ukrainian operative? i think this isiust _ ukrainian operative? i think this isjust something - ukrainian operative? i think this isjust something they l this is just something they have come to believe from him from spending so much time with him and that he never really professed any particular viewpoint or politics. of course we cannot rule out that this man was doing things that

were beyond their view or their scope so this is really, there feelings having known him for a number of years here. but they do think what is interesting is that they were by their own accounts foreign nationals who were a member of this server which raises the possibility that people in the group could have been working on behalf of a foreign government and certainly raises the possibility that they took the documents and made copies of them and that those are now in far—flung places around the world too. i far-flung places around the world toe-— far-flung places around the world too-— far-flung places around the world too. i also want to ask ou world too. i also want to ask you about — world too. i also want to ask you about the _ world too. i also want to ask you about the identity - world too. i also want to ask you about the identity of - world too. i also want to ask you about the identity of 06 | you about the identity of 06 and i think we can bring up another piece of your article where it says: we heard defence secretary austin saying they are going to turn over every stone until they find the identity of this leka. well that now be revealed?— leka. well that now be revealed? ~ , �* ., revealed? we will see. and to be clear with _ revealed? we will see. and to be clear with your _ revealed? we will see. and to be clear with your viewers, . revealed? we will see. and to j be clear with your viewers, we do not know og's name either,

we do not know where he works for the particular state he works on and these individuals were really resistant to revealing it and just insisted they would not do it. i have to imagine though now as more is coming to light in this investigation particular with regards to this discord server that he was the administrator of, this is going to start narrowing down the universe of suspect here and i would have two think it's probably a matter of time before the fbi closes in on him and notably the individual who we talked to at length in the story said he believed that was likely to happen as well, that it was only a matter of time before 06 is arrested. only a matter of time before 06 is arrested-— is arrested. and last question, does 06 understand _ is arrested. and last question, does 06 understand what - is arrested. and last question, does 06 understand what is i does 06 understand what is possibly facing him? that does 06 understand what is possibly facing him?- does 06 understand what is possibly facing him? that is a ureat possibly facing him? that is a great question, _ possibly facing him? that is a great question, i _ possibly facing him? that is a great question, i don't - possibly facing him? that is a great question, i don't know. | possibly facing him? that is a | great question, i don't know. i would have to think that he probably does get the gravity of this and i'd judge that a little bit by the reaction that we are told he had when he realised that the classified information he had been sharing

had actually been disclosed by a member of the group beyond theirfour a member of the group beyond their four walls a member of the group beyond theirfour walls and that a member of the group beyond their four walls and that was how it made its way out onto the wider internet, somebody shared it on another discord server where it got picked up and by the account of this person we spoke to 06 was frantic, distraught and he actually said, remarkably, he has spoken to 06 in the past few days and does understand essentially the gravity of the situation that is facing him and doesn't really know how to resolve it. shane harris, who worked on that report for the washington post. thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. in other news: us senator dianne feinstein says she intends to return to washington after fellow democrats called for her resignation. the 86—year—old senator was diagnosed with shingles in february and has missed 60 floor votes since then. with democrats narrowly holding a senate majority, feinstein is key to pushing through theirjudicial nominees.

thousands of people have been evacuated after a recyling plant caught fire in the us state of indiana. authorities believe plastic waste at the plant could be be emitting toxic smoke. officials say the chemicals will continue to burn for days. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. ian ward has living room into a slot car race track. i’zre ian ward has living room into a slot car race track.— slot car race track. i've got over 105 — slot car race track. i've got over 105 cars _ slot car race track. i've got over 105 cars now, - slot car race track. i've got over 105 cars now, 14 - slot car race track. i've got over 105 cars now, 14 boxl slot car race track. i've got - over 105 cars now, 14 box sets upstairs in my bedroom and probably another 20 sets that are loose. it takes my mind off things, it's brilliant. he rediscovered _ things, it's brilliant. he rediscovered his - things, it's brilliant. he rediscovered his childhood hobby a year ago and says it has really helped with his autism and mental health. if autism and mental health. if they don't like a track and get bored of it, can take it down and put a completely different track up and my autism accepts that because it is something completely different. ion that because it is something completely different. ian has also taken — completely different. ian has also taken his _ completely different. ian has also taken his track-

completely different. ian has also taken his track out - completely different. ian has also taken his track out on i completely different. ian has. also taken his track out on the road hosting monthly meats in this local community centre. it's a great group, brings together like—minded people, we like racing cars. mr; together like-minded people, we like racing cars.— like racing cars. my first time down at ian's _ like racing cars. my first time down at ian's club _ like racing cars. my first time down at ian's club tonight. i down at ian's club tonight. this— down at ian's club tonight. this is— down at ian's club tonight. this is how big clubs start. small_ this is how big clubs start. small things like a track on the floor— small things like a track on the floor builds into a big cluh _ you're live with bbc news. it was watched live by more than three million people. it was hastily arranged. but in an exclusive interview with bbc, elon musk, the owner of twitter, admitted he only went through with the purchase of the company because a judge was about force him to do so, and that his takeover of twitter �*was painful�* but that he would sell the company if the right person came along. musk purchased twitter for a whopping $44 billion, just over £35 billion. he inherited a workforce of over 8,000 employee which he has defended cutting down to around 1,500, saying the company would have gone bankrupt otherwise. he purchased his first

shares on april five 2022, buying 9%. days later, musk submitted an offer to buy the whole company, above the current stock price. that was accepted on the 25th of april. in may, musk tweeted that the deal to buy twitter was �*temporarily on hold', he said because of the volume of fake denied that, and invited musk to a meeting, which hejoined remotely. they were unable to agree over the bots issue. twitter then sued, in an attempt to force the deal through the courts, with a date set for october before that trial went ahead, musk agreed to buy the company. ijust spoke to kara swisher about this interview. before we start with the first question, want to play this specific part of the interview where he asked if he had any specific regrets about buying twitter. the pain level of twitter has been extremely high. this has not been some sort of party. so, it has been really quite

stressful situation over the last several months, not an easy one. but apart from the pain — so it has been quite painful but i think, at the end of the day, it should have been done. whether many mistakes made along the way? of course, you know. but all is well that ends well and so i feel like we are headed to a good place. you know, we are roughly breaking even. i think we're trending towards being cash flow positive very soon, literally in a matter of months. what you make of elon musk calling this experience painful? it's kind of like hearing an arsonist how surprised they were when they burnt down a house and their hands got burned. i do not know what to say. here's the one that has caused pain, in terms of how he fired people and a lot of the the mistakes — the mistakes were made.

things that are very typical of him and many people in silicon valley when he made the mistakes. he also bought it for too much to start with. it was an interesting interview because he acted like it was all foisted upon him and he was a victim, but it is a fine, that is what these people do a lot of the time but he is the one that's causing all the problems, he is causing all the chaos, he is causing all the changes and to me i think he should take responsibility for it and not talk about how in pain he is. why don't you think he doesn't do that? because he's...| do not know what to tell you about silicon valley people, it is never their fault. they want to play the saviour and come in and save this place and endure the enormous pain, when he has behaved badly on the platform, he has fired people badly, may get to cash flow positive but it is certainly a much smaller business now, a much smaller footprint in general. it wasn't very big to start with. i don't know why he says it. i am not a psychologist, but it is really funny to hear someone who is in complete charge saying they are in pain compared to everybody

else, but, 0k, sure. you mentioned the hiring and firing of people, elon musk laying off roughly 6500 employees at twitter and down from just under 8000 employees before he took over. i want to play that clip for you when he talks specifically about this. the issue is, like, the company is either going to go bankrupt or if we do not cut costs immediately. this is not an uncaring situation, it's like, if the whole ship sinks, nobody has got a job. right, but a lot of people just lost theirjobs like that. they did not even know they'd lost theirjob... let me ask you, what would you do? you might want to give someone some notice — by the way, i am not running twitter. this is the criticism. crosstalk. a little bit of notice. i understand. you have four months to live, 120 days. in 120 days you are dead.

was the company really about to go bankrupt? were these cuts really necessary? well, yes, for years many of us have talked about how overstaffed a lot of these tech companies were, and they could afford it. twitter was doing 0k, it never did great. i do not think it was in imminent danger of bankruptcy. he creates a crisis and then makes the crisis and he also managed to repel advertisers by his behaviour. so, yeah, they were in trouble because advertisers fled the platform. they were on the platform and liking itjust fine and then he attacked them and threatened them and then they fled. and then he did the crazy stuff about twitter blue. and then he says it's a crisis so, i don't know, if you create a crisis and then say there is a crisis — it was not in the kind of imminent danger that he is talking about. it was not doing well, but this has long been known. it was a public company, everyone could see the numbers and it was not in danger of going bankrupt at any second. that is not true. crosstalk.

were these cuts more about getting rid of people on twitter he did not want to have there any more? no, no, ithink, the correct thing would be to cut staff, there was too much stuff there but you do not also at the same time cut necessary staff around safety, advertising and all kinds of things. he can do anything he wants, he paid $44 billion for it so he can run it any way he likes. he certainly could get it to cash flow positive by cutting all the costs. the question is, how safe is it? is it a good advertising platform? is it a good business? he still has to find a business here and that is really the point. you know, anybody can cut their way to profitability, itjust doesn't mean it's a good thing. again, i'm someone who was always thinking it was too stuffed with people and too badly run but it does not mean this is a better version of it. you are cutting costs, if you cut costs, if you have some possible income you will get to cash flow positive, it is just a question of what cash flow positive is it exactly. crosstalk. will he manage that? sure, he's a very talented

guy but it is not bigger, it's not better, it'snot improved. there is no innovation going on there. just as always, it is the same old twitter, just with another boss. so, maybe, maybe if he does a payment system. so far everything he has done has not worked but that does not mean that he can't come up with something. it is the old saying, i haven't failed 10 time, i just haven't found the right way to do it. the addison quote. that's one of his favourites i think. that you can fail and fail and fail and ultimately ijust don't think this is a very good business, period. it never has been. maybe if they changed into a payment system, it might be. there are all kinds of things they could do but we will see. i'm looking forward to him fixing this company but so far he has not done so. elon musk does not think it is the same old twitter since he took over. he calls himself really or called twitter "a beacon of free speech" since he took over the reign. he talks specifically about this aim of making twitter a platform

for free speech. close to half the country voted for trump. i was not one of them, i voted for biden. nonetheless, free speech is meaningless unless you allow people you do not like to say things you do not like, otherwise it is irrelevant. at the point which you lose free speech, it does not come back. i think the issue some people have is that a lot of people were brought back. some people were brought back who were previously banned for spinning things like qanon conspiracies, people like andrew tate who were brought back, previously bound to things like hate speech. do you think you prioritise freedom of speech over misinformation and hate speech? who is to say that something is misinformation? who is the arbiter of that? this was perhaps one of the most contentious parts of the interviews. what did you think about

what elon had to say about free speech? it is just the same old nonsense they all spout off. people have been able to talk on twitter forever. i don't know if you noticed but lots of people get to say whatever they want on that platform. they have to just create a crisis and then pretend that they fixed it. this was not a platform that was particularly censored. they took off donald trump after he was tweeting some really unfortunate things during an insurrection. and i thought it was the right call. i did not love that one person made it. but that probably was the right call for the moment, and so did facebook and so did others. there's a couple of stupid calls they made but they fixed them rather quickly when they made stupid one. it is also a private platform, by the way. it is a private profit—making platform and they try to act like this is a public square and it is some great moment of free speech — it is just this company that sells advertising and to act like it is this beacon of free speech and also he cuts people's speech off, by the way. he does it all the time. it is such nonsense and such

hypocrisy, it is exhausting to watch on some level. do you get an idea of what his definition of free speech actually is? whatever he thinks it is that day. whatever he decides that some 3am moment, that is what it is. he will cut offt whoever he wants. it is his right, again, he bought the company, he paid for it, he overpaid for it, he can do whatever he wants on the platform but to put himself up like he's, i don't know, george washington or thomas jefferson, it is very funny to watch, it is just not true. he cuts people off when he feels like it, so did facebook, so did the old twitter and they made mistakes sometime but there is certainly no body that would say that this twitter has not — most people have been able to communicate on twitter and who is the arbitrator of facts? are you kidding! there are facts in the world. just dismissing misinformation, especially at that level of players is nonsense. there are malevolent players that are trying to manipulate people and trying to change people's attitudes and put out bed information for nefarious purposes and to act like that's not happening is naive at best.

is it safe to say that those malevolent actors have a greater voice ever since elon musk took over or is hate speech on the rise since his take over? i think he is just not policing it — he fired everyone who did that. yeah, sure, i guess. there's lots of studies that are showing that. again, it's a tiny platform. he's a loud loud person on it. you know ,the mouse that roared kind of thing. i'm talking about twitter, twitter is not a very big platform. if you want to talk about big platforms let's talk about facebook and instagram, those are big platforms, and there's a bunch in china that are big platforms. this is a little platform with an outsized voice to the size it has. it's not as good. i do not put comments on it anymore. it has become sort of a toxic waste dump for me, that is a personal thing that's happened to me. it never happened before. i do not know what to say, yes, it is worse, to me it is worse but that is just my experience. i do not know what

it is with other. i do not want advantage to get by re—platforming alexjones or an andrew tate and but again, he paid for it, he can do it. he talked about tiktok, and the prospect of that being banned. let us play that clip now. i hear many people tell me they spent a lot of time on tiktok but they regret the time spent and that seems, 0k, we do not want to have regretted, we want to have time to be unregretted where you learned things, you were entertained, amused. i get that. i get more laughs out of twitter than anything else and many people tell me the same thing so that is a good sign. tiktok itself, ijust do not know enough about what is going on there. i can't say i have a strong opinion on tiktok.

so do not have an opinion on whether it should be banned or not? you know, i am generally against banning things. what do you think of that perspective? i do not think it matters what he thinks about tiktok. the fact he says twitter is more entertaining than tiktok is another piece of nonsense. leaving aside the issue around the chinese communist party, tiktok is a fantastic platform. and it cleaned twitter�*s clock. it has been cleaning facebook�*s clock. everybody�*s clock. it is a really good product. it is very entertaining and that is why people like it. it is not social media to me, it is entertainment. i don't think it can be banned, that is another issue. you know who is getting all the advertising until recently? it is tiktok. that's who's been doing a great business. twitter has fallen behind, it never got there, and it never reached the level of tiktok. and he likes twitter cause it's a bunch of memes and jokes about emojis, so, 0k.

if i could ask you, what did you think of his demeanour during this interview? it sounds like elon, sounds like him. he can be very reasonable. i think his persona on twitter is very different than his persona when he's talking to you. he seems somewhat reasonable. i think he says things that are not accurate but that is ok, a lot of people do that, they do their talking points and that is typical of someone like him or a leader of some company. he sounded like... except for being in pain, and i am sorry he's pain, he seemed fine, he seemed good. it sounds like he usually does. really good to get your thoughts on this interview. thank you forjoining us on the bbc.

i'm sumi somaskanda in washington. thank you very much for watching bbc news. hello there. storm noa has been bringing problems to transport, with road, rail, ferries and airports affected. meanwhile, out to sea, some wild weather in cornwall, with these large, mountainous waves pummelling the coastline. some of the waves were thought to be about eight metres high. that's the same height as two double decker buses stacked on top of each other. storm noa, then, has certainly been making its impact felt. it's this swirl of cloud you can see here on the satellite picture. and the top wind speed was recorded, as it often is in such storms, at the needles on the isle of wight , a very exposed site — at 96 miles an hour. elsewhere, well into the 70s. even across inland parts of southern england, we had gusts into the 60s of miles an hour and that was strong enough to blow over a few trees. now, over the next few hours, those very strong winds are starting to calm down. it's still quite windy, though, for wales and south—west england. temperatures coming down to between three and six celsius, very similar to what

we've seen over recent nights. now, heading into thursday, it should be a fine start to the day for many for england and wales. there'll be showers across northern england, showers for scotland and northern ireland. and i think through the day, there is a chance that some of these showers, particularly for southern and eastern scotland, into eastern areas of england, well, they could merge together to give some longer spells of rain. and some of the rain heavy with some hail and thunder mixed in and temperatures still below par. but when the sunshine comes out, out of the breeze, probably not feeling too bad. probably not feeling too good on friday across southern parts of england and wales, with another area of low pressure moving in, bringing outbreaks of rain widely. some of that's going to be quite heavy as well, whereas the further north you are, you will see showers and thunderstorms, some of them, again, merging together to give some longer spells of rain, so staying very unsettled and pretty cool again for april. highs only reaching around 12 or 13 degrees at best. however, as we get into the weekend, things start to cheer up. the south—westerly winds start to blow away some of that cooler air and the high pressure starts to flex its muscles. now, on saturday, there'll still be a few showers around, maybe a few morning mist and fog patches to clear, but there'll be some bright or sunny spells and,

overall, it's a better kind of day weather—wise. temperatures climbing. we're looking at highs of 15 in glasgow, 15 in norwich and for london as well. and that's just the start of things, because through sunday and into next week, it gets even warmer. indeed, next week, for the first time this year, we should see highs hit 20.

voice-over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. there is no mistaking the deep sense of unease hanging over israel stopping the death toll in the conflict of the palestinians has surged in recent months just as israel's far—right nationalist government led by benjamin netanyahu has been

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