this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour straight after this programme. a warm welcome, i have come to hollywood to the women in film

headquarters where i am joined by keri putnam and stephanie allain, two women who are working to reshape the industry. they are both part of an initiative founded and led by women in film and the sundance institute called reframe, the aim is to advance gender equity. keri putnam is a film executive and producer and the founder of putnam pictures, she has served for ii the founder of putnam pictures, she has served for 11 years of the sea year of the sundance institute which runs the sundance film festival. prior to that she worked as a senior executive at miramax and hbo and also the co—founder. welcome. and also the co-founder. welcome-— and also the co-founder. welcome. , ., welcome. great to be here. stephanie — welcome. great to be here. stephanie allain _ welcome. great to be here. stephanie allain is - welcome. great to be here. stephanie allain is a - welcome. great to be here. stephanie allain is a film i stephanie allain is a film producer and writer and the newly elected copresident of the producers guild of america, the producers guild of america, the first woman of colour to hold the position. stefanie served nine years as vice president in women in film and runs her own company, homegrown pictures which focuses on creating content by and about women and people of colour. terry and stephanie, welcome to

you both. kerry, you were set in a korean theatre, about what happened. in a korean theatre, about what happened-— in a korean theatre, about what happened. that was a very early lot happened. that was a very early plot twisted _ happened. that was a very early plot twisted my _ happened. that was a very early plot twisted my career. - happened. that was a very early plot twisted my career. i - happened. that was a very early plot twisted my career. i was . plot twisted my career. i was coming out of college and i was going to go work in a theatre, and i had a a friend who was working at hbo which at that time was a very start up network, a long time ago... and she said well, you are going to go work in the theatre but there is some guy coming he was going to be making plays for television on hbo, you could maybe be his assistant, and so i got that job maybe be his assistant, and so i got thatjob as secretary at the very bottom, starting out a long time ago. the very bottom, starting out a long time age-— long time ago. they don't say secretary _ long time ago. they don't say secretary anymore... - long time ago. they don't say secretary anymore... i- long time ago. they don't say secretary anymore... i had i long time ago. they don't say secretary anymore... i had to j secretary anymore... i had to take a typing _ secretary anymore... i had to take a typing test! _ secretary anymore... i had to take a typing test! and - secretary anymore... i had to take a typing test! and then i j take a typing test! and then i was very lucky to be hitting a company like that at the time where my rate of growth and knowledge, really the company was growing at the same pace and i was able to move up there

and i was able to move up there and just learn so much about making film and telling stories, still working with a lot of playwrights and being close to the writers in the story which is what i loved, so that's where i got my start, and from there i stayed a really long time at hbo and then moved to miramax and back to sundance. then moved to miramax and back to sundance-— to sundance. stefanie you grew u . to sundance. stefanie you grew u- there to sundance. stefanie you grew up there is _ to sundance. stefanie you grew up there is a — to sundance. stefanie you grew up there is a cinema _ to sundance. stefanie you grew up there is a cinema and - to sundance. stefanie you grew up there is a cinema and spent| up there is a cinema and spent a lot of time outside the cinema trying to get in. tell me about that. i cinema trying to get in. tell me about that.— me about that. i also love stories. — me about that. i also love stories. i _ me about that. i also love stories, i loved _ me about that. i also love stories, i loved reading, | me about that. i also love stories, i loved reading, i| me about that. i also love - stories, i loved reading, iwas an avid — stories, i loved reading, iwas an avid reader, and the thing that— an avid reader, and the thing that really triggered my interest was two films, the godfather and the exorcist, i had read _ godfather and the exorcist, i had read both books and i was about— had read both books and i was about 12 — had read both books and i was about 12 years old, i had to sneak— about 12 years old, i had to sneak into the theatre, i stood outside — sneak into the theatre, i stood outside and asked an adult to buy me — outside and asked an adult to buy me a _ outside and asked an adult to buy me a ticket and i wasjust blown — buy me a ticket and i wasjust blown away by the connection between _ blown away by the connection between what was in this book and what — between what was in this book and what was on the screen, and i and what was on the screen, and i thought. — and what was on the screen, and i thought. i— and what was on the screen, and i thought, i didn't even have the tools— i thought, i didn't even have

the tools to understand that there — the tools to understand that there were movies and directors and producers, but i love stories. _ and producers, but i love stories. i_ and producers, but i love stories, i went to school for story, — stories, i went to school for story, for— stories, i went to school for story, for english, and then i -ot story, for english, and then i got pregnant, right after college, and i had this baby and — college, and i had this baby and i— college, and i had this baby and i was _ college, and i had this baby and i was like what am i going to do? — and i was like what am i going to do? and somebody told me there — to do? and somebody told me there was— to do? and somebody told me there was a job called reading, and i_ there was a job called reading, and i was — there was a job called reading, and i was like reading is a jobi? _ and i was like reading is a job!? sign me up! , so that's what — job!? sign me up! , so that's what i — job!? sign me up! , so that's what i did, _ job!? sign me up! , so that's what i did, and thatjust created _ what i did, and thatjust created an opening into the world — created an opening into the world of— created an opening into the world of cinema to me, and then women, — world of cinema to me, and then women, amy pascal and don steele, — women, amy pascal and don steele, they recognised my affinity— steele, they recognised my affinity for writing, and analysing material they promoted me and the first thing i did promoted me and the first thing i did was— promoted me and the first thing i did was find somebody to replace _ i did was find somebody to replace me in the department because — replace me in the department because i was the only person of cotour— because i was the only person of colour there.— because i was the only person of colour there. she says women were instrumental _ of colour there. she says women were instrumental in _ of colour there. she says women were instrumental in helping - were instrumental in helping her. what about you? i would sa i her. what about you? i would say i didn't — her. what about you? i would

say i didn't have _ her. what about you? i would say i didn't have the - her. what about you? i would say i didn't have the luck- her. what about you? i would say i didn't have the luck to i say i didn't have the luck to have a woman boss early on, but the big boss of original programming on hbo in the 80s wasa woman, programming on hbo in the 80s was a woman, and she was an incredible force, very rare in that time, and she really sat a clarity of what hbo stood for, what kind of stories.— clarity of what hbo stood for, what kind of stories. who was at? bridget— what kind of stories. who was at? bridget potter, _ what kind of stories. who was at? bridget potter, and - what kind of stories. who was at? bridget potter, and she . what kind of stories. who was i at? bridget potter, and she has been written — at? bridget potter, and she has been written out _ at? bridget potter, and she has been written out of _ at? bridget potter, and she has been written out of the - at? bridget potter, and she has been written out of the history. been written out of the history but actually what i found out, i don't know if you found this but i found a lot of my strongest mentors and supporters in my career have been peers. i supporters in my career have been peers-— supporters in my career have been peers. i think that's true too. been peers. i think that's true too one _ been peers. i think that's true too one of — been peers. i think that's true too. one of my _ been peers. i think that's true too. one of my peers, - been peers. i think that's true too. one of my peers, and - been peers. i think that's true too. one of my peers, and i i too. one of my peers, and i made — too. one of my peers, and i made more movies with him than anybody. — made more movies with him than anybody, john singleton, and my first movie — anybody, john singleton, and my first movie i made with him, he is the _ first movie i made with him, he is the one — first movie i made with him, he is the one who really sent me on a — is the one who really sent me on a path _ is the one who really sent me on a path of protecting the vision _ on a path of protecting the vision which basically taught me how— vision which basically taught me how to produce.-

vision which basically taught me how to produce. what an incredible — me how to produce. what an incredible movie _ me how to produce. what an incredible movie to - me how to produce. what an incredible movie to start - me how to produce. what an l incredible movie to start with! i was like this is easy! i could _ i was like this is easy! i could do— i was like this is easy! i could do this all day long! having _ could do this all day long! having worked for the big studios, columbia, hbo, miramax, you both went independent. why was that important for you to do kerry? i'm late coming to independent. i'm late coming to independent. i think stefanie has been a producerfor i think stefanie has been a producer for longer i think stefanie has been a producerfor longer but i i think stefanie has been a producer for longer but i felt it was my time to try something new, they also had never bet on myself and done something entrepreneurial, and ifelt i wanted you closer to storytelling, to be setting my own terms in a way and using the experiences i had, so i am giving it a shot, ijust started really. i5 giving it a shot, i 'ust started reallyi started really. is a frightening - started really. is a i frightening stepping started really. is a - frightening stepping out on your own? it frightening stepping out on your own?— frightening stepping out on ourown? , , ., ., your own? it is, but again you are caught — your own? it is, but again you are caught by _ your own? it is, but again you are caught by the _ your own? it is, but again you are caught by the communityl are caught by the community that you have come to know and you can reach out and call and get advice, and yes it is frightening, but it is also exciting, it's a time in my life i think it's ok to shake

it up a little bit.— it up a little bit. stefanie i know you _ it up a little bit. stefanie i know you went _ it up a little bit. stefanie i know you went as - it up a little bit. stefanie i know you went as far - it up a little bit. stefanie i know you went as far as i it up a little bit. stefanie i - know you went as far as selling your house to start your own company. big move! i your house to start your own company. big move!- company. big move! i did. i started producing, - company. big move! i did. i started producing, because| company. big move! i did. i. started producing, because if you're — started producing, because if you're at— started producing, because if you're at the studio, it is a slog. — you're at the studio, it is a slog. i_ you're at the studio, it is a slog. iwas— you're at the studio, it is a slog, i was a decade, but i think— slog, i was a decade, but i think it _ slog, i was a decade, but i think it was 20 years ago, yes, 20 years— think it was 20 years ago, yes, 20 years ago this year that i formed _ 20 years ago this year that i formed homegrown pictures, and 'ust formed homegrown pictures, and just decided to bet on myself. i just decided to bet on myself. ijust— just decided to bet on myself. ijust thought i don't want to support— ijust thought i don't want to support somebody else's vision, it was— support somebody else's vision, it was basically that. after boys — it was basically that. after boys in _ it was basically that. after boys in the hood, many years later— boys in the hood, many years later i— boys in the hood, many years later i went to john with another— later i went to john with another prescription and i said we should do this, this was at the advent, people were switching from film to digital, so the — switching from film to digital, so the idea of making a movie yourself— so the idea of making a movie yourself was really for real, you — yourself was really for real, you could do that, and i was thinking _ you could do that, and i was thinking i_ you could do that, and i was thinking i will sell my house and — thinking i will sell my house and i— thinking i will sell my house and hust— thinking i will sell my house and ijust woke up one day and i

and ijust woke up one day and i said _ and ijust woke up one day and isaid i— and ijust woke up one day and i said i don't care, i don't care _ i said i don't care, i don't care about the house, i had teenage _ care about the house, i had teenage boys, said you guys don't — teenage boys, said you guys don't care do you, and they were — don't care do you, and they were like _ don't care do you, and they were like noah, do it! | were like noah, do it! i remember being in the first screening at sundance, that was amazing. it screening at sundance, that was amazinu. . . screening at sundance, that was amazinu. ., . , amazing. it was electrifying for a coople _ amazing. it was electrifying for a couple of _ amazing. it was electrifying for a couple of reasons, - for a couple of reasons, firstly. _ for a couple of reasons, firstly, the movie is fantastic but it— firstly, the movie is fantastic but it took us four years to the — but it took us four years to the time _ but it took us four years to the time i_ but it took us four years to the time i sold my house to get the time i sold my house to get the movie — the time i sold my house to get the movie made and everybody in town _ the movie made and everybody in town passed on it and we took it to _ town passed on it and we took it to sundance and after that amazing _ it to sundance and after that amazing screening, everybody that passed wanted it, and it was — that passed wanted it, and it was really the time that cemented my understanding of how valuable trusting your gut is, how valuable trusting your gut is. that— how valuable trusting your gut is, that was electric, and we all did — is, that was electric, and we all did make money.- all did make money. that's . reat all did make money. that's great producing. _ all did make money. that's great producing. we - all did make money. that's great producing. we all - all did make money. that's great producing. we all didj great producing. we all did make money _ great producing. we all did make money in _ great producing. we all did make money in the - great producing. we all did make money in the end, i great producing. we all did| make money in the end, so that's— make money in the end, so that's what i have been doing for the — that's what i have been doing for the last 20 years, just riding _ for the last 20 years, just riding a _ for the last 20 years, just riding a when i tell people it doesn't _ riding a when i tell people it doesn't matter how successful you are. — doesn't matter how successful you are, i'm telling you this right— you are, i'm telling you this right now. _ you are, i'm telling you this right now, it's a house, you have — right now, it's a house, you have to _ right now, it's a house, you have to be _

right now, it's a house, you have to be in that spirit. you have to be in that spirit. you have to be in that spirit. you have to believe. _ have to be in that spirit. you have to believe. you - have to be in that spirit. you have to believe. you have i have to be in that spirit. you have to believe. you have toj have to believe. you have to believe! _ have to believe. you have to believe! i— have to believe. you have to believe! i don't _ have to believe. you have to believe! i don't do _ have to believe. you have to believe! i don't do anythingl believe! idon't do anything unless— believe! i don't do anything unless i_ believe! i don't do anything unless i am so passionate. i wake — unless i am so passionate. i wake up _ unless i am so passionate. i wake up in _ unless i am so passionate. i wake up in the middle of the night. — wake up in the middle of the night, write something down, wake — night, write something down, wake up — night, write something down, wake up and think what can i do to this _ wake up and think what can i do to this forward.— to this forward. let's talk about the _ to this forward. let's talk about the obstacles. - to this forward. let's talk| about the obstacles. what to this forward. let's talk - about the obstacles. what were some of the obstacles that women encounter in the industry in your experience carry? i think it's sort of depends on the seat the women are occupying, so if you are talking about women directing, the obstacles, it is interesting, because some of the obstacles are not particular to this industry, it is this perception that leadership and the qualities that make a great director, which are decision—making and leadership and a lot of it is very gendered, it's often talked about in terms of war, they are the general pushing they are the general pushing the troops, these are extremely gendered terms and they tend to

reinforce the idea that leadership looks a certain way, and so, whether that is around race or that is around gender, i think these things are very intersectional, female directors often have a difficult time assuming that mantle of leadership, being handed that mantle of leadership for that reason, so that's one thing that i think is hard, and i also think and this is a particularly applicable factor across a lot of different categories of work, but, there is a perception and there has been a perception and there has been a perception that stories about women or by and about women are somehow less universal and less worthy of spending money on because they're going to be less commercial than stories by and about other people. so a story about two men is a universal story of friendship, a story about two women is a niche story, and that has led to the problem of financing,

getting access to money, being able to build careers, because it is not perceived that certain stories that are by and about women are as valued. band about women are as valued. and then answer— about women are as valued. and then answer stories about black women — then answer stories about black women... as then answer stories about black women... �* . then answer stories about black women- - -_ women... as i said, it is very intersectional. _ women... as i said, it is very intersectional. people - women... as i said, it is very intersectional. people who i women... as i said, it is very - intersectional. people who make a financial decisions are still very homogenous group of people who look at the business side. there are exceptions but the look of the business side as what are we going to make back, what are we going to make back, what are we going to make back, what are the international sales going to be, what is the box office going to be? they set their budgets around that, so the money follows stories that look like what has succeeded before, so if things are coming from a different perspective, there is no comp. they can't look it up. be used to call the fiscal cliff. women could get low—budget movies made, people of colour could get a low—budget movie is made,

but as the budgets got higher and more financial eyes were on what that marketability was, suddenly, those creators fell out of the mix and it ended up being a more homogenous set of people. being a more homogenous set of --eole. ~ . being a more homogenous set of neale, . ., ., being a more homogenous set of --eole. ~ . ., ., being a more homogenous set of n-eole. . . ., . ., people. what would you add to that stefanie? _ people. what would you add to that stefanie? i _ people. what would you add to that stefanie? i have _ people. what would you add to that stefanie? i have been - people. what would you add to that stefanie? i have been in i that stefanie? i have been in this business _ that stefanie? i have been in this business 35 _ that stefanie? i have been in this business 35 years, - that stefanie? i have been in this business 35 years, at - this business 35 years, at least _ this business 35 years, at least. there are big stories to tell. _ least. there are big stories to tell. there _ least. there are big stories to tell, there are really big stories— tell, there are really big stories to tell. i will say that _ stories to tell. i will say that in— stories to tell. i will say that in television, it feels like — that in television, it feels like there are more opportunities for women to tell our story — opportunities for women to tell our story. is opportunities for women to tell our sto . . . opportunities for women to tell our sto . , . . opportunities for women to tell our sto . ,. . ., opportunities for women to tell our story-— our story. is a much more even -la in: our story. is a much more even playing field- — our story. is a much more even playing field- why _ our story. is a much more even playing field. why do _ our story. is a much more even playing field. why do you - our story. is a much more even playing field. why do you think| playing field. why do you think that is? why — playing field. why do you think that is? why do _ playing field. why do you think that is? why do you _ playing field. why do you think that is? why do you think - playing field. why do you think that is? why do you think that| that is? why do you think that is? well. _ that is? why do you think that is? well. i _ that is? why do you think that is? well, i would _ that is? why do you think that is? well, i would guess- that is? why do you think that is? well, i would guess that i is? well, i would guess that art of is? well, i would guess that part of it — is? well, i would guess that part of it is _ is? well, i would guess that part of it is when _ is? well, i would guess that part of it is when something j is? well, i would guess that i part of it is when something is on television or streams, it already— on television or streams, it already has an international audience, right? but the thing about— audience, right? but the thing about the streamers is that, i made — about the streamers is that, i

made a — about the streamers is that, i made a movie on netflix called juanita. — made a movie on netflix called juanita, my mum's favourite movie — juanita, my mum's favourite movie i_ juanita, my mum's favourite movie i ever made, and she was a huge _ movie i ever made, and she was a huge hit — movie i ever made, and she was a huge hit in _ movie i ever made, and she was a huge hit in the south. she can— a huge hit in the south. she can go— a huge hit in the south. she can go to _ a huge hit in the south. she can go to places in brazil because _ can go to places in brazil because of that movie, because you just — because of that movie, because you just turn it on get that. does — you just turn it on get that. does a _ you just turn it on get that. does a great point of view. isn't that interesting? for sure. ithink— isn't that interesting? for sure. i think that - isn't that interesting? fr?" sure. i think that the bright side of it, the idea that a global conversation is happening and prove some of those old beliefs wrong, i think that is great, i also think that is great, i also think there is another factor which is in the last, in this decade where the streamers have come into business that has been more television made than ever before in history, in these ten years, more than all these ten years, more than all the years before, so there is actuallyjustjobs, it's a place of abundance. actuallyjust jobs, it's a lace of abundance. , place of abundance. they needed bodies. place of abundance. they needed bodies- this _ place of abundance. they needed bodies. this isn't _ place of abundance. they needed bodies. this isn't to _ place of abundance. they needed bodies. this isn't to say - place of abundance. they needed bodies. this isn't to say that - bodies. this isn't to say that they are _ bodies. this isn't to say that they are wasn't _ bodies. this isn't to say that they are wasn't goodwill - bodies. this isn't to say that i they are wasn't goodwill about what stories to be told

opportunities like the one stefanie described but i think a mindset of abundance immediately provides more opportunity for people than one of constriction, and unfortunately, what we're seeing in the side of the business... is seeing in the side of the business. . ._ seeing in the side of the business... seeing in the side of the i business. . ._ is seeing in the side of the - business. . ._ is a business... is a scarcity. is a scarcity- _ business... is a scarcity. is a scarcity. because _ business... is a scarcity. is a scarcity. because the - business... is a scarcity. is a scarcity. because the movie| scarcity. because the movie studios that used to make 20 to 25 movies a year are now making eight to nine movies each year. now the streamers are making films and there are other places but i think that means that everyone is a big about, everyone is more expensive, everyone is more expensive, everyone is more expensive, everyone is a franchise now. there has still been progress, i would also say even in the last few years, it was 4% of film directors were women, and i think less than 1% were women of colour in the top 100 films, for years and years and years. in 2017, 2016, 17, for years and years and years.

in 2017,2016,17,which coincided with the movements, the social movements around the world, that also came to hollywood and included the organisation that we are part of, reframe, these movements led to an opening of things, and we actually saw 150% growth in female directing those top box office movies, and a small growth in women of colour as well, not proportional unfortunately, but still growth. is another numbers in 2019 the numbers went from 4% to 12%. since 2019 it has flatlined, no progress for the last four years. so, when you think about, when you think about constraints, fear, the way the global market is, i worry that there needs to be a conversation about how do you take a time where maybe the market conditions are more challenging and forget about

all the commitments to equity and all the commitments to a wide array of stories we all believe in.— believe in. which is why reframe _ believe in. which is why reframe is _ believe in. which is why reframe is so _ believe in. which is why reframe is so valuable i believe in. which is why | reframe is so valuable to believe in. which is why - reframe is so valuable to our business _ the idea of reframe was originally research—based. seeing the research in the cold light of day and saying nobody can deny that this is an equity problem nobody can say this is an accident. we really felt instinctivelyjust by instinctively just by presenting that instinctivelyjust by presenting that research to a wide array of people in studio jobs who are producers, agents, at senior levels, they would be shocked, because i think most people don't consider themselves biased and yet the cumulative effect of their decisions was biased, and indeed that proved to be true. when we first started, the biggest obstacle to making change was the perception that there wasn't a problem. yes. there wasn't a problem. yes, america is — there wasn't a problem. yes, america is a _

there wasn't a problem. yes, america is a patriarchal, - america is a patriarchal, racist _ america is a patriarchal, racist society. it is. that is the — racist society. it is. that is the world _ racist society. it is. that is the world that we live in and just— the world that we live in and just to — the world that we live in and just to say it out loud, oh my god. _ just to say it out loud, oh my god. don't— just to say it out loud, oh my god, don't say it! but we have to say— god, don't say it! but we have to say it — god, don't say it! but we have to say it because we have to know — to say it because we have to know it. _ to say it because we have to know it, we have to look at it to make _ know it, we have to look at it to make that change and even all of— to make that change and even all of us. _ to make that change and even all of us, notjust to make that change and even all of us, not just the white folks— all of us, not just the white folks but— all of us, not just the white folks but all of us operate under— folks but all of us operate under these assumptions and bias— under these assumptions and bias is — under these assumptions and bias is so _ under these assumptions and bias is. so really exploring that— bias is. so really exploring that on— bias is. so really exploring that on a _ bias is. so really exploring that on a human level, really i think— that on a human level, really i think changed the way that people _ think changed the way that people think and out of that came — people think and out of that came the talk at. the culture chan . e came the talk at. the culture change toolkit _ came the talk at. the culture change toolkit is _ came the talk at. the culture change toolkit is that - came the talk at. the culture change toolkit is that we - came the talk at. the culture | change toolkit is that we build for them to have actual tangible tools (crosstalk) like when ou tangible tools (crosstalk) like when you submit a script, take the name _ when you submit a script, take the name of. read the script for the script, not betty's script john's script. _ not betty's script john's script, just read the script and — script, just read the script and see _ script, just read the script and see what you and what we discovered was script written by women, especially like action. _ by women, especially like action, or perceived genre things— action, or perceived genre things were all of a sudden rising — things were all of a sudden rising up. because there wasn't

this preconception that if a woman— this preconception that if a woman wrote it, it wasn't as good — woman wrote it, it wasn't as good as— woman wrote it, it wasn't as good as a _ woman wrote it, it wasn't as good as a man.— woman wrote it, it wasn't as good as a man. but it was also about involving _ good as a man. but it was also about involving the _ good as a man. but it was also about involving the audience, l about involving the audience, so we created something called the reframe stamp that allows films that are gender balanced in the way they are made and in what is on the screen and this doesn't even necessarily have to be a woman director. it could be a woman in other roles and we started awarding those stamps and really shining a light on things that were made that way and then it became, i want the stamp and audiences are looking for the stamp. when we started. _ are looking for the stamp. when we started, nobody _ are looking for the stamp. when we started, nobody wanted - are looking for the stamp. when we started, nobody wanted the l we started, nobody wanted the stamp — we started, nobody wanted the stamp. we were trudging into the studio same with got the stamp — the studio same with got the stamp and they were like we want — stamp and they were like we want to— stamp and they were like we want to know part of it copy we are not— want to know part of it copy we are not going to be labelled. and — are not going to be labelled. and now— are not going to be labelled. and now it's like, can i get the — and now it's like, can i get the stamp? and to get the stamp. _ the stamp? and to get the stamp, you have two higher verily — stamp, you have two higher verily so— stamp, you have two higher verily. so it is exciting that, you — verily. so it is exciting that, you know. _ verily. so it is exciting that, you know, there are ways. keri,

what is lost _ you know, there are ways. keri, what is lost when _ you know, there are ways. keri, what is lost when women - you know, there are ways. keri, what is lost when women are i what is lost when women are left out of the decision—making process? i left out of the decision-making rocess? ~ process? i think. decision-making, process? i think - decision-making, it is a process? i think _ decision-making, it is a hard decision—making, it is a hard question because there are a lot of ways to approach that. i think when any decision—making process doesn't get made by a group of people that reflect the full world we live in, there will be unconscious bias. there will be a voice missing to be able to say i'm interested in that. hi care about that, did you think about this. and i would say the same if there were no men in the decision—making process. this is it about and instead, it's about an expansion and it is about an expansion and it is about having rooms of decision—makers that reflect the world and i think what is lost without that is the ability to expand the pallet.

stephanie, what would you add to that? by, stephanie, what would you add to that? �* ., . , stephanie, what would you add to that? �* ., ., , ., stephanie, what would you add to that?_ thank| to that? a totally agree. thank ou. to that? a totally agree. thank you- yeah. _ to that? a totally agree. thank you- yeah. you _ to that? a totally agree. thank you. yeah, you really- to that? a totally agree. thank you. yeah, you really think - you. yeah, you really think about a _ you. yeah, you really think about a movie _ you. yeah, you really think about a movie like - you. yeah, you really think i about a movie like everything everywhere all at once which was — everywhere all at once which was made by two men, but with michelle — was made by two men, but with michelle yeo, jamie lee curtis, it is really— michelle yeo, jamie lee curtis, it is really female based, the movie — it is really female based, the movie. it's so good and the world — movie. it's so good and the world would be a sadder place, you know? we bring the collect of inclusion of all these different voices, is a celebration. it's a celebration of humanity and that is sometimes what is missing when you don't— sometimes what is missing when you don't have that spectrum. and _ you don't have that spectrum. and they— you don't have that spectrum. and they also think from the active of the audience, you know, we've seen so many examples of, if you see it, you believe you can be at, and i

think that feeling of, obviously equity is important across all industries but i think when you are talking about culture and you are talking about storytelling and what stories we value and what reflects us, young people either see themselves or they don't, and i think, talking about what we each might have thought were possible for jobs or possible for ourselves, i think it is such an important part of this industry, it is one of the reasons i love it. hollywood comedy industry, is one of the least, least... open, inclusive businesses. lake oil is more inclusive in terms of ceos in terms of colour in people of —— people of colour. so if you think about that, the power that we have to tell stories, to

include people, it is kind of unfathomable, you wouldn't think it's so liberal in hollywood and this and that but thatis hollywood and this and that but that is not the way it is. so there is still lots of work to do. �* ,. , ., , do. but i will say there has been some _ do. but i will say there has been some improvement. | do. but i will say there has - been some improvement. we've come _ been some improvement. we've come a — been some improvement. we've come a long way. and been some improvement. we've come a long way-— come a long way. and television and streaming _ come a long way. and television and streaming is _ come a long way. and television and streaming is a _ come a long way. and television and streaming is a really - come a long way. and television and streaming is a really good i and streaming is a really good example, i think. and streaming is a really good example, ithink. i and streaming is a really good example, ithink.— example, ithink. ithink so too. in 2015 _ example, ithink. ithink so too. in 2015 the _ example, i think. i think so - too. in 2015 the #oscarssowhite cam aiun too. in 2015 the #oscarssowhite campaign highlighted _ too. in 2015 the #oscarssowhite campaign highlighted the - too. in 2015 the #oscarssowhite campaign highlighted the lack. campaign highlighted the lack of diversity in hollywood and you produced one of the most successful films in 2020, you produced one of the most successfulfilms in 2020, how was that? successful films in 2020, how was that?— successful films in 2020, how was that? . ., , was that? that was the most fun in my career- — was that? that was the most fun in my career. it _ was that? that was the most fun in my career. it was _ was that? that was the most fun in my career. it was the - in my career. it was the combination of live theatre and what _ combination of live theatre and what we — combination of live theatre and what we do, but there were no take _ what we do, but there were no take two — what we do, but there were no take two is, nothing like that. there — take two is, nothing like that. there is— take two is, nothing like that. there is one rehearsal. there was _ there is one rehearsal. there was one — there is one rehearsal. there was one rehearsal for that whole _ was one rehearsal for that whole showstopping it was really _ whole showstopping it was really important to us that it

be diverse and inclusive. there was _ be diverse and inclusive. there was a — be diverse and inclusive. there was a lot— be diverse and inclusive. there was a lot of pushback, i'll be honest _ was a lot of pushback, i'll be honest. even for someone as amazing _ honest. even for someone as amazing as genome on a who opened — amazing as genome on a who opened the show, it was a struggle. it was a struggle to make — struggle. it was a struggle to make that happen, you know what a mean? _ make that happen, you know what a mean? but we persevered and i'm a mean? but we persevered and i'm super— a mean? but we persevered and i'm super proud of the showstopping it took me three weeks — showstopping it took me three weeks to— showstopping it took me three weeks to come down. the adrenaline, it did. iwas weeks to come down. the adrenaline, it did. i wasjust operating _ adrenaline, it did. i wasjust operating at... | adrenaline, it did. iwas 'ust operating at. . .i operating at... i remember seeinr operating at... i remember seeing you _ operating at... i remember seeing you after— operating at... i remember seeing you after that, - operating at... i remember seeing you after that, you | operating at... i remember. seeing you after that, you did a greatjob. seeing you after that, you did a great job-— seeing you after that, you did a greatjob— a great job. there is an ongoing _ a great job. there is an ongoing debate - a great job. there is an ongoing debate about i a great job. there is an - ongoing debate about having gender neutral awards at the oscars. where do you stand on this, keri? oscars. where do you stand on this. keri?— this, keri? you know, i was 'ust this, keri? you know, i was just inking _ this, keri? you know, i was just inking about _ this, keri? you know, i was just inking about this - this, keri? you know, i was just inking about this and i l just inking about this and i don't have the answer because i

think, i would say on balance, i'm for it. a actually think acting shouldn't be awarded in acting shouldn't be awarded in a gendered way. the thing that they worry about is fewer. so if you have only one acting category then it would be five not ten, so, and then i think you could end up replicating some of the issues we've seen in the direct is category where, we talked about that earlier but, so in a way i'd like that there is a space to be sure that women and women identifying artist will be honoured but a wish there didn't need to be, so that is kind of where i stand right now. �* ~' now. i'm with her. ithink that's really _ now. i'm with her. ithink that's really smart. - now. i'm with her. ithink that's really smart. one i now. i'm with her. i think. that's really smart. one final question- — that's really smart. one final question- is _ that's really smart. one final question. is there _ that's really smart. one final question. is there a - that's really smart. one final question. is there a story - that's really smart. one final question. is there a story or| that's really smart. one final| question. is there a story or a narrative that hasn't been done yet that you would like to see on the big screen? dream project essentially. i

on the big screen? dream project essentially.- on the big screen? dream project essentially. i have my dream project. _ project essentially. i have my dream project, it— project essentially. i have my dream project, it is— project essentially. i have my dream project, it is not - project essentially. i have my dream project, it is not on . project essentially. i have my| dream project, it is not on the bil dream project, it is not on the big screen. _ dream project, it is not on the big screen, it is on hbo and it is going — big screen, it is on hbo and it is going to _ big screen, it is on hbo and it is going to be a limited series. _ is going to be a limited series, we already have four of the eight — series, we already have four of the eight scripts, they are beyond _ the eight scripts, they are beyond amazing and it isjust one of— beyond amazing and it isjust one of these project that, i've read — one of these project that, i've read that— one of these project that, i've read that book in college, it is black— read that book in college, it is black women being whatever we want — is black women being whatever we want to be and that is what is so _ we want to be and that is what is so great _ we want to be and that is what is so great about it, and it is going — is so great about it, and it is going to _ is so great about it, and it is going to frighten the hell out of people because it is wild. | of people because it is wild. don't of people because it is wild. i don't have a project like that in my head right now that they feel like... and i think, i don't have a single project thatis don't have a single project that is the one i've been waiting to see or waiting to make but i think will know it when i see et and i am certainly out there looking. keri you both so much. thank you, it's been _

you both so much. thank you, it's been fun. _ —— keri and stephanie, thank you _ —— keri and stephanie, thank you both _ —— keri and stephanie, thank you both so much. hello. this weekend will bring a change in the weather. we're not talking about a heat wave, we're not talking about wall—to—wall sunshine, but something a little warmer and brighter than we've been used to over the last few days. the reason is high pressure, which will be building its way in. this frontal system across eastern counties of england and south—east scotland will provide some cloud and some splashes of rain to start the morning. this cloud will tend to break up through the day, although there is still the chance of one or two showers across eastern england and into eastern scotland. further west,

a slice of sunshine. but then we will see cloud rolling into northern ireland and maybe some rain into western counties later on in the day. temperatures, well, a little higher than they have been of late, 10 degrees in lerwick, 15 perhaps as the high in glasgow. and then as we head through saturday night, we will see this zone of cloud with some areas of rainfall moving across northern ireland. and then turning cloudy for many other western parts as well, where we keep some clear skies towards the south—east corner, well, there could be a touch of frost in one or two locations and also some fog patches to start sunday morning. milder out towards the west, where we will have more cloud thanks to this frontal system. but broadly speaking, high pressure is stilljust about in charge. there's not going to be a huge amount of rain. and while some eastern coasts will struggle temperature—wise, further west, a feed of southerly winds will bring something a little bit warmer. but we will have a fair amount of cloud to contend with, i think, on sunday. best of the sunshine, quite likely to be across northeast scotland, some brighter skies for northern ireland and maybe some brightness clinging on across the south—east corner as well, which could lift temperatures to 16, maybe 17 degrees across the coast of northeast scotland. as we head into monday,

perhaps some early fog patches and some cloud lingering for parts of scotland and northern ireland, at least for a time. and with a feed of easterly winds, temperatures on some of the north sea coasts will struggle a little. 1a degrees for aberdeen and for hull, but further west, highs of 17 or 18 degrees. high pressure stays with us as we head through the coming week. but the alignment, the orientation of this high will tend to bring us an easterly wind, which means these eastern coasts will always be on the chilly side. the highest temperatures further west. but for the most part, it is looking largely dry with some spells of sunshine. bye for now.

live from washington, this is bbc news. lawmakers in the us state of montana approve a statewide ban on the chinese social media app tiktok. the bill now heads to the governor's desk. 21—year—old jack teixiera appears in court in boston over a huge leak of secret government documents. the us supreme court temporarily prevents new limits coming into force on the use of a widely—available abortion pill. hello i'm sumi somaskanda. we start in the us, where politicians in the state of montana have passed a bill banning the chinese—owned app tiktok on all devices.

the bill is the first of its kind, and if signed into law by the montana governor, will almost certainly