this is bbc news. the headlines: a man is pinned down and arrested by security staff in japan as the prime minister, fumio kishida, is rushed to safety after an explosion. his predecessor, shinzo abe, was assassinated last year while giving a campaign speech. gunfire and explosions have been heard in the sudan capital khartoum as the sudanese army clash with paramilitary forces. witnesses report the fighting is close to the headquaters of the army in the centre

of the city. france's president, emmanuel macron, signs into law his government's controversial pension reforms despite months of protests. scientists say the remains of ancient viruses which have spent millions of years hiding inside human dna help the body fight cancer. nurses in england will escalate their strike action in the coming weeks after turning down the government's latest pay offer. hello and welcome to talking business, with me, tadhg enright. let's have a look at what's on the show. can revenge spending save the world economy? after more than three years, lockdown is finally over for more than a billion people in china. they've had time to stash trillions of dollars�* worth of savings. are they about to spend it travelling the world? and what's that going to mean for the rest of us?

i'll be getting the lowdown on revenge spending with this top team — steve odlan of the us conference board, tian lu from the economist intelligence unit in china, and gary barrowman, the man who literally wrote the book about the chinese tourist. and now people have got places to go, are they going to bejewel themselves to go there?

wherever you'rejoining me from around the world, once again a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. china was the first country to lock people down due to covid, and now it's one of the last to ease restrictions. following anti—lockdown protests late last year, president she finally ended his zero—covid policy, opening up cities and travel once more. that reopening was underlined in the last few weeks by president xi welcoming european leaders, including france's president emanuel macron, to the country, and also rising tensions around its dispute with taiwan — the chinese military staging a show of strength over the island beijing still claims as its own. but after three years of lockdowns, testing and a new ban on travel, economists are predicting a tide of cash could be released by china's consumers. in fact, the sums are so significant to the international monetary fund improved its outlook for the global economy. the potential revenge spending pot is huge, with chinese households racking up over $2.5 trillion in extra savings in 2022. that's an increase of around 80%. that increase in savings alone is about the same size as the entire economy of italy last year. but will the chinese

consumer spend it? revenge spending has certainly been seen after lockdowns in other countries. in 2021 it was estimated that american consumers were spending on average an extra $750 a month. if anyone can tell us how that played out, it's the boss of the us conference board. it compiles some of the most trusted research on the american consumer as well as insights on china. steve 0dland, how did revenge spending pan out in the usa? well, coming out of covid you saw consumer balance sheets that were swollen, lots of cash provided by that savings that had happened when they couldn't spend, but also government stimulus. and you saw the spending on goods surge. now we're coming off of that and you're seeing the services come back, and so the revenge spending continues in the service sector while the goods sector tapers off here. we're not quite back to pre—covid spending levels

in the service sector, so we should see a little bit more of that continue here into this year and a normalisation. we've had lots of things contributing to inflation — the energy crisis, labour shortages. how much blame do you put on revenge spending? well, you know, when you lock it down and you're producing nothing, sotthere was no supply. so there was no supply. and so you had all this demand and all this money chasing too few goods and no services. so, you know, it's a complete imbalance between supply and demand, and that has created an enormous amount of this information, on top of the government spending

and easy money policies both here in the united states but also around the world. and so you had all this money chasing too little supply and of course that inflation comes in. now it's the reverse, as interest rates are rising, the cost of debt and the cost of money has increased and so you see now a tilt towards a recessionary period. the conference board predicts that from about now until the end of the year we should see a short, relatively short, shallow recession, as interest rates tamp down that demand and supply catches up. do you think it's over, that the revenge spending era is over in the united states now? well, it's still a rebound in services, as people continue to try to catch up here. but it's pretty much coming to an end, and if we go into this shallow recession that should put a complete end to it, tadhg. you know, it's really run its course, i think. 0k, well, let's cross the world now to china. what does your research see happening there right now?

they have had lockdowns now for three years, and we have seen this on television every single day with whole cities locked down. post the congress here in the fall they have changed their policy and they all have opened up a test match, but you still have this residual effect. revenge spending is completely under way in china as consumers come back to the market. of course spending on housing is down. there is a housing crisis a bit in china, but from a goods and services standpoint the consumer is back in china. and do american businesses, international businesses, think they are going to benefit from this chinese chapter of revenge spending? western multinational companies who have a business in china, in other

words serving the domestic markets, will certainly benefit from this revenge spending, or the rebound spending happening in china. it's unclear whether that will translate to the export market. those exporting to western nations and other areas of the world probably will not because you have the reverse effect. you have recession starting in north america, obviously the uk and germany, russia and ukraine, so it is really a domestic market focus right now in china. steve 0dland, thank you very much. that's the view from america, but what can we learn from people on the ground? let's go to beijing and the managing directorfor ground? let's go to beijing and the managing director for greater china for the economist group, tian lu. welcome to the programme. you are in beijing. is there an atmosphere of revenge spending in the air there right now? revenge spending in the air there riahtnow? ~ , ., .

right now? absolutely. the economic recove in right now? absolutely. the economic recovery in china _ right now? absolutely. the economic recovery in china post-covid - right now? absolutely. the economic recovery in china post-covid has - recovery in china post—covid has been _ recovery in china post—covid has been impressive, but the more fundamental question is that how sustainable is this? we at the economist intelligence unit i looking — economist intelligence unit i looking at chinese gdp growth to be 5.7% looking at chinese gdp growth to be 57% this_ looking at chinese gdp growth to be 5.7% this year, much higher than the government— 5.7% this year, much higher than the government target of around 5%. in fact the _ government target of around 5%. in fact the 5~7 — government target of around 5%. in fact the 5.7 already points to the fact the 5.7 already points to the fact that — fact the 5.7 already points to the fact that china will contribute to one third — fact that china will contribute to one third of the entire global economic growth this year, so that is quite _ economic growth this year, so that is quite impressive. that is a very significant — is quite impressive. that is a very significant contribution to the world — significant contribution to the world economy.— significant contribution to the world economy. qian, chinese consumers _ world economy. qian, chinese consumers more _ world economy. qian, chinese consumers more interested i world economy. qian, chinese i consumers more interested right world economy. qian, chinese - consumers more interested right now in spending at home, or are they also looking to spend abroad once again? also looking to spend abroad once auain? , ., , , again? the question is both, but we need to look — again? the question is both, but we need to look at _ again? the question is both, but we need to look at the _ again? the question is both, but we need to look at the short _ again? the question is both, but we need to look at the short term - again? the question is both, but we need to look at the short term and i again? the question is both, but we| need to look at the short term and a bit of— need to look at the short term and a bit of the _ need to look at the short term and a bit of the longer term. where for the short— bit of the longer term. where for the short term, especially this year. — the short term, especially this year. the _ the short term, especially this year, the majority would be domestic spending _ year, the majority would be domestic spending -- — year, the majority would be domestic spending —— so forthe year, the majority would be domestic spending —— so for the short term. going _ spending —— so for the short term. going forward, especially when it contes_ going forward, especially when it comes to —

going forward, especially when it comes to tourism and travel, outbound. _ comes to tourism and travel, outbound, that will start to pick up, outbound, that will start to pick up. but — outbound, that will start to pick up, but most likely from the latter half of— up, but most likely from the latter half of 2024. up, but most likely from the latter half of 2024-— half of 2024. and the rest of the world of course _ half of 2024. and the rest of the world of course we _ half of 2024. and the rest of the world of course we are _ half of 2024. and the rest of the world of course we are dealing i half of 2024. and the rest of the i world of course we are dealing with a pretty dire cost of living crisis, and i wonder if chinese consumers are looking at what is happening elsewhere and that is adding to that sense of the lack of confidence? good question, but the truth is actually. — good question, but the truth is actually, especially with a higher energy— actually, especially with a higher energy prices causing the pension inflation _ energy prices causing the pension inflation especially in europe and the us. — inflation especially in europe and the us, they are not so much affecting _ the us, they are not so much affecting china. with the russian ukrainian — affecting china. with the russian ukrainian word, the rising oil prices. — ukrainian word, the rising oil prices. a _ ukrainian word, the rising oil prices, a lot of western countries are suffering big time for it, but not so _ are suffering big time for it, but not so much in china. 0ne are suffering big time for it, but not so much in china. one key factor is within— not so much in china. one key factor is within china's inflation basket, or is— is within china's inflation basket, or is not— is within china's inflation basket, or is not a — is within china's inflation basket, or is not a major part of it. the most _ or is not a major part of it. the most interesting bit to watch is the price of— most interesting bit to watch is the price of ports, really, and

specifically the tip of the rear of the pics— specifically the tip of the rear of the pics because chinese people love to eat _ the pics because chinese people love to eat pork— the pics because chinese people love to eat pork —— the price of pork, really~ _ to eat pork —— the price of pork, really it— to eat pork —— the price of pork, really. it comprises a big part of the basket. all the chinese analysts, when we look at chinese inflation. — analysts, when we look at chinese inflation, we pay very close attention to the cycles of the pork prices. _ attention to the cycles of the pork prices. so — attention to the cycles of the pork prices, so at the moment they tend to be _ prices, so at the moment they tend to be not— prices, so at the moment they tend to be not on— prices, so at the moment they tend to be not on the peak cycles so that is definitely helping with chinese inflation — is definitely helping with chinese inflation. | is definitely helping with chinese inflation. . is definitely helping with chinese inflation. , ._ is definitely helping with chinese inflation. . ., ., inflation. i must say i did not exect inflation. i must say i did not exnect peg's _ inflation. i must say i did not expect peg's we _ inflation. i must say i did not expect peg's we went - inflation. i must say i did not expect peg's we went to - inflation. i must say i did not. expect peg's we went to feature inflation. i must say i did not - expect peg's we went to feature in this conversation. is there in china recognition, do you think —— i did not expect pigs�* rear ends to feature in this conversation. gas. feature in this conversation. gas, chinese consumers _ feature in this conversation. gas, chinese consumers realise the weight and importance that yes, chinese consumers — and importance that yes, chinese consumers. but the space for them is much _ consumers. but the space for them is much higher— consumers. but the space for them is much higher than they probably already— much higher than they probably already realise, for the chinese consumer _

already realise, for the chinese consumer. chinese private consumption's ratio to gdp is 36% only~ _ consumption's ratio to gdp is 36% only~ when — consumption's ratio to gdp is 36% only. when you compare that to the us, only. when you compare that to the us. which— only. when you compare that to the us. which is— only. when you compare that to the us, which is 70%. the importance of chinese _ us, which is 70%. the importance of chinese consumers, whether to domestic— chinese consumers, whether to domestic suppliers are international supplies. _ domestic suppliers are international supplies, will continue to grow. thank— supplies, will continue to grow. thank you — supplies, will continue to grow. thank you very much. travel is one of the biggest areas in which we are expected to see a big increase. for further pandemic, chinese globetrotters where the largest group of international tourists —— before the pandemic. what are the set to make a return and where will they go? i�*ve been speaking to the director of the tourism intelligence specialist, check in asia, also the author of the new book on chinese travel, gary us, just remind us how much of a big deal chinese tourists were becoming for the rest of the world before the pandemic? thank you for havin: world before the pandemic? thank you for having me — world before the pandemic? thank you for having me on _ world before the pandemic? thank you for having me on the _ world before the pandemic? thank you for having me on the show. _ world before the pandemic? thank you for having me on the show. one - for having me on the show. 0ne travellers —

for having me on the show. 0ne travellers around _ for having me on the show. 0ne travellers around the _ for having me on the show. 0ne travellers around the world - for having me on the show. 0ne travellers around the world in i for having me on the show. one i travellers around the world in 2019 how the _ travellers around the world in 2019 how the chinese _ travellers around the world in 2019 how the chinese passport - travellers around the world in 2019 how the chinese passport to - travellers around the world in 2019 how the chinese passport to stop i travellers around the world in 2019 . how the chinese passport to stop the weh's_ how the chinese passport to stop the web's largest — how the chinese passport to stop the web's largest outbound _ how the chinese passport to stop the web's largest outbound tourism i web's largest outbound tourism nrarket. — web's largest outbound tourism nrarket. the _ web's largest outbound tourism market, the open— web's largest outbound tourism market, the open trips - web's largest outbound tourism market, the open trips from i web's largest outbound tourism i market, the open trips from china in 2019~~ _ market, the open trips from china in 2019~~ and — market, the open trips from china in 2019~~ and also— market, the open trips from china in 2019... and also the _ market, the open trips from china in 2019... and also the world's - market, the open trips from china in 2019... and also the world's largest| 2019... and also the world's largest spending _ 2019... and also the world's largest spending tourism _ 2019... and also the world's largest spending tourism nation. _ 2019... and also the world's largest spending tourism nation. find - 2019. .. and also the world's largest spending tourism nation.— spending tourism nation. and now that chinese _ spending tourism nation. and now that chinese borders _ spending tourism nation. and now that chinese borders are - spending tourism nation. and now that chinese borders are open i spending tourism nation. and now. that chinese borders are open again, what evidence are we seeing that there is just as what evidence are we seeing that there isjust as much of what evidence are we seeing that there is just as much of a wanderlust among chinese travellers? i think that is a good question because — i think that is a good question because it _ i think that is a good question because it has _ i think that is a good question because it has been _ i think that is a good question because it has been quite i i think that is a good question. because it has been quite slow, i think that is a good question- because it has been quite slow, the borders— because it has been quite slow, the borders opened _ because it has been quite slow, the borders opened at _ because it has been quite slow, the borders opened at the _ because it has been quite slow, the borders opened at the beginning i because it has been quite slow, the borders opened at the beginning of| borders opened at the beginning of january— borders opened at the beginning of january and — borders opened at the beginning of january and there _ borders opened at the beginning of january and there was _ borders opened at the beginning of january and there was this - january and there was this expectation _ january and there was this expectation it— january and there was this expectation it would - january and there was thisl expectation it would simply january and there was this i expectation it would simply be pressing — expectation it would simply be pressing play— expectation it would simply be pressing play and _ expectation it would simply be pressing play and chinese i expectation it would simply be i pressing play and chinese travellers would _ pressing play and chinese travellers would start — pressing play and chinese travellers would start travelling _ pressing play and chinese travellers would start travelling again - pressing play and chinese travellers would start travelling again and i would start travelling again and everything _ would start travelling again and everything would _ would start travelling again and everything would be _ would start travelling again and everything would be back- would start travelling again and everything would be back to i would start travelling again and i everything would be back to normal. it everything would be back to normal. it has _ everything would be back to normal. it has been — everything would be back to normal. it has been like _ everything would be back to normal. it has been like that. _ everything would be back to normal. it has been like that. three - everything would be back to normal. it has been like that. three use i everything would be back to normal. it has been like that. three use of. it has been like that. three use of the pandemic— it has been like that. three use of the pandemic and _ it has been like that. three use of the pandemic and the _ it has been like that. three use of the pandemic and the disruption. it has been like that. three use of. the pandemic and the disruption has impacted _ the pandemic and the disruption has impacted the — the pandemic and the disruption has impacted the chinese _ the pandemic and the disruption has impacted the chinese travel- the pandemic and the disruption hasj impacted the chinese travel industry considerably. — impacted the chinese travel industry considerably. -- _ impacted the chinese travel industry considerably, —— three _ impacted the chinese travel industry considerably, —— three years. - impacted the chinese travel industry considerably, —— three years. of- considerably, —— three years. of course _ considerably, —— three years. of course it— considerably, —— three years. of course it has— considerably, —— three years. of course it has impacted - considerably, —— three years. of course it has impacted the - considerably, —— three years. of. course it has impacted the chinese airline _ course it has impacted the chinese airline industry. _ course it has impacted the chinese airline industry. it— course it has impacted the chinese airline industry. it has— course it has impacted the chinese airline industry. it has taken- course it has impacted the chinese airline industry. it has taken time. airline industry. it has taken time for chinese — airline industry. it has taken time for chinese airlines— airline industry. it has taken time for chinese airlines to _ airline industry. it has taken time for chinese airlines to scale - airline industry. it has taken time for chinese airlines to scale backl for chinese airlines to scale back up for chinese airlines to scale back up and _ for chinese airlines to scale back up and be — for chinese airlines to scale back up and be able _ for chinese airlines to scale back up and be able to— for chinese airlines to scale back up and be able to offer- for chinese airlines to scale back up and be able to offer the - for chinese airlines to scale back up and be able to offer the flight and services _ up and be able to offer the flight and services to _ up and be able to offer the flight and services to chinese - up and be able to offer the flighti and services to chinese travellers to be _ and services to chinese travellers to be able — and services to chinese travellers to be able to _ and services to chinese travellers to be able to travel _ and services to chinese travellers to be able to travel again. - and services to chinese travellers to be able to travel again. i - and services to chinese travellers to be able to travel again. i think| to be able to travel again. i think the travel— to be able to travel again. i think the travel industry _

to be able to travel again. i think the travel industry expects - the travel industry expects first-half— the travel industry expects first—half of— the travel industry expects first—half of this _ the travel industry expects first—half of this year- the travel industry expects first—half of this year you i the travel industry expects i first—half of this year you will start— first—half of this year you will start to — first—half of this year you will start to see _ first—half of this year you will start to see a _ first—half of this year you will start to see a real _ first—half of this year you will start to see a real uplift i first—half of this year you will start to see a real uplift in i start to see a real uplift in chinese _ start to see a real uplift in chinese travellers - start to see a real uplift in i chinese travellers travelling outbound _ chinese travellers travelling outbound around _ chinese travellers travelling outbound around the - chinese travellers travelling outbound around the world i chinese travellers travelling i outbound around the world once again _ outbound around the world once aaain. . outbound around the world once aaain. , ., , ., ., again. remind us of the state of -la . again. remind us of the state of play- what _ again. remind us of the state of play- what kind _ again. remind us of the state of play. what kind of _ again. remind us of the state of play. what kind of restrictions . play. what kind of restrictions remain on chinese travellers going abroad in terms of testing etc? yes. abroad in terms of testing etc? yes, aood abroad in terms of testing etc? yes, good question- _ abroad in terms of testing etc? yes, good question. when _ abroad in terms of testing etc? yes, good question. when china reopened its borders. _ good question. when china reopened its borders. if— good question. when china reopened its borders, if you _ good question. when china reopened its borders, if you remember, - good question. when china reopened its borders, if you remember, back. its borders, if you remember, back injanuary. — its borders, if you remember, back injanuary. it— its borders, if you remember, back injanuary. it was— its borders, if you remember, back in january, it was the _ its borders, if you remember, back in january, it was the only- its borders, if you remember, back in january, it was the only countryl in january, it was the only country in january, it was the only country in the _ in january, it was the only country in the world — in january, it was the only country in the world at _ in january, it was the only country in the world at the _ in january, it was the only country in the world at the time _ in january, it was the only country in the world at the time to - in january, it was the only country in the world at the time to reopen in the world at the time to reopen in the _ in the world at the time to reopen in the midst— in the world at the time to reopen in the midst of— in the world at the time to reopen in the midst of a _ in the world at the time to reopen in the midst of a huge _ in the world at the time to reopen in the midst of a huge infection i in the midst of a huge infection wave _ in the midst of a huge infection wave of— in the midst of a huge infection wave of covid—19, _ in the midst of a huge infection wave of covid—19, the - in the midst of a huge infection wave of covid—19, the biggest. in the midst of a huge infection i wave of covid—19, the biggest wave china _ wave of covid—19, the biggest wave china had _ wave of covid—19, the biggest wave china had seen _ wave of covid—19, the biggest wave china had seen. several— wave of covid—19, the biggest wave china had seen. several countries i china had seen. several countries around _ china had seen. several countries around the — china had seen. several countries around the world _ china had seen. several countries around the world actually- china had seen. several countries i around the world actually instituted straightaway — around the world actually instituted straightaway testing _ around the world actually instituted straightaway testing precautions i around the world actually instituted | straightaway testing precautions for chinese _ straightaway testing precautions for chinese travelling _ straightaway testing precautions for chinese travelling into _ straightaway testing precautions for chinese travelling into their- chinese travelling into their countries _ chinese travelling into their countries. the _ chinese travelling into their countries. the uk- chinese travelling into their countries. the uk was i chinese travelling into their countries. the uk was one i chinese travelling into their. countries. the uk was one of chinese travelling into their- countries. the uk was one of those, japan. _ countries. the uk was one of those, japan. korea. — countries. the uk was one of those, japan, korea, australia, _ countries. the uk was one of those, japan, korea, australia, the - countries. the uk was one of those, japan, korea, australia, the us- countries. the uk was one of those, japan, korea, australia, the us as l japan, korea, australia, the us as well _ japan, korea, australia, the us as well most — japan, korea, australia, the us as well most of— japan, korea, australia, the us as well. most of those _ japan, korea, australia, the us as well. most of those have - japan, korea, australia, the us as well. most of those have been i japan, korea, australia, the us as i well. most of those have been lifted over time _ well. most of those have been lifted over time because _ well. most of those have been lifted over time because the _ well. most of those have been lifted over time because the infection- over time because the infection curves — over time because the infection curves in — over time because the infection curves in china _ over time because the infection curves in china have _ over time because the infection| curves in china have dissipated, over time because the infection- curves in china have dissipated, and it has— curves in china have dissipated, and it has fallen — curves in china have dissipated, and it has fallen away _ curves in china have dissipated, and it has fallen away considerably. i curves in china have dissipated, and it has fallen away considerably. buti it has fallen away considerably. but china _ it has fallen away considerably. but china itself— it has fallen away considerably. but china itself does _ it has fallen away considerably. but china itself does actually— it has fallen away considerably. but china itself does actually still- china itself does actually still stipulate _ china itself does actually still stipulate some _ china itself does actually still stipulate some rules- china itself does actually still stipulate some rules and i china itself does actually still- stipulate some rules and outbound traveh _ stipulate some rules and outbound travel. independent _ stipulate some rules and outbound travel. independent travellers - stipulate some rules and outbound| travel. independent travellers from

china _ travel. independent travellers from china can _ travel. independent travellers from china can travel— travel. independent travellers from china can travel anywhere - travel. independent travellers from china can travel anywhere they- travel. independent travellers from | china can travel anywhere they like, but group _ china can travel anywhere they like, but group travellers, _ china can travel anywhere they like, but group travellers, to _ china can travel anywhere they like, but group travellers, to a _ china can travel anywhere they like, but group travellers, to a group - but group travellers, to a group travellers, _ but group travellers, to a group travellers, they _ but group travellers, to a group travellers, they are _ but group travellers, to a group travellers, they are more - travellers, they are more restricted. _ travellers, they are more restricted. currently - travellers, they are more i restricted. currently there travellers, they are more - restricted. currently there are 60 countries — restricted. currently there are 60 countries around _ restricted. currently there are 60 countries around the _ restricted. currently there are 60 countries around the world - restricted. currently there are 60 countries around the world that l restricted. currently there are 60 i countries around the world that are permitted — countries around the world that are permitted to — countries around the world that are permitted to receive _ countries around the world that are permitted to receive chinese - countries around the world that are permitted to receive chinese groupi permitted to receive chinese group tour travellers, _ permitted to receive chinese group tour travellers, and _ permitted to receive chinese group tour travellers, and currently- permitted to receive chinese group tour travellers, and currently the l tour travellers, and currently the uk is _ tour travellers, and currently the uk is not — tour travellers, and currently the uk is not one _ tour travellers, and currently the uk is not one of— tour travellers, and currently the uk is not one of those. - tour travellers, and currently the uk is not one of those.— uk is not one of those. where i chinese travellers _ uk is not one of those. where i chinese travellers looking - uk is not one of those. where i chinese travellers looking to i uk is not one of those. where i i chinese travellers looking to go right now? are they still staying at home more than we did before the pandemic, orare home more than we did before the pandemic, or are they starting to look overseas again? the pandemic, or are they starting to look overseas again?— pandemic, or are they starting to look overseas again? the first thing recovered in — look overseas again? the first thing recovered in the _ look overseas again? the first thing recovered in the first _ look overseas again? the first thing recovered in the first three - look overseas again? the first thing recovered in the first three months | recovered in the first three months since _ recovered in the first three months since china — recovered in the first three months since china reopened _ recovered in the first three months since china reopened for— recovered in the first three months since china reopened for travel- recovered in the first three monthsi since china reopened for travel and tourism, _ since china reopened for travel and tourism, domestically— since china reopened for travel and tourism, domestically and - tourism, domestically and internationally, _ tourism, domestically and internationally, is - tourism, domestically and i internationally, is domestic tourism _ internationally, is domestic tourism it— internationally, is domestic tourism. it has— internationally, is domestic tourism. it has really- internationally, is domestic- tourism. it has really rebounded quite _ tourism. it has really rebounded quite quickly _ tourism. it has really rebounded quite quickly. we _ tourism. it has really rebounded quite quickly. we are _ tourism. it has really rebounded quite quickly. we are starting i tourism. it has really rebounded quite quickly. we are starting toi quite quickly. we are starting to see a _ quite quickly. we are starting to see a tot — quite quickly. we are starting to see a tot of— quite quickly. we are starting to see a lot of search _ quite quickly. we are starting to see a lot of search activity- quite quickly. we are starting to see a lot of search activity on i quite quickly. we are starting tol see a lot of search activity on the chinese — see a lot of search activity on the chinese outbound _ see a lot of search activity on the chinese outbound tourism - see a lot of search activity on the. chinese outbound tourism booking sites. _ chinese outbound tourism booking sites. and — chinese outbound tourism booking sites, and interest— chinese outbound tourism booking sites, and interest at— chinese outbound tourism booking sites, and interest at the - chinese outbound tourism booking sites, and interest at the moment| sites, and interest at the moment seems _ sites, and interest at the moment seems to— sites, and interest at the moment seems to be — sites, and interest at the moment seems to be mostly _ sites, and interest at the moment seems to be mostly in _ sites, and interest at the moment seems to be mostly in asia - sites, and interest at the moment| seems to be mostly in asia pacific, southeast — seems to be mostly in asia pacific, southeast asia _ seems to be mostly in asia pacific, southeast asia quite _ seems to be mostly in asia pacific, southeast asia quite strong, - seems to be mostly in asia pacific, | southeast asia quite strong, japan, korea, _ southeast asia quite strong, japan, korea, australia _ southeast asia quite strong, japan, korea, australia and _ southeast asia quite strong, japan, korea, australia and new— southeast asia quite strong, japan, korea, australia and new zealand. i korea, australia and new zealand. those _ korea, australia and new zealand. those would — korea, australia and new zealand. those would he _ korea, australia and new zealand. those would be expected - korea, australia and new zealand. those would be expected i- korea, australia and new zealand. those would be expected i think. korea, australia and new zealand. those would be expected i think in the first— those would be expected i think in the first few— those would be expected i think in the first few months _ those would be expected i think in the first few months of _ those would be expected i think in the first few months of people - the first few months of people taking — the first few months of people taking their— the first few months of people taking theirfirst_ the first few months of people taking their first trips - the first few months of people taking their first trips once - the first few months of people i taking their first trips once again. they— taking their first trips once again. they went— taking their first trips once again. they want to _ taking their first trips once again. they want to go _ taking their first trips once again. they want to go with _ taking their first trips once again. they want to go with what - taking their first trips once again. they want to go with what is - they want to go with what is familiar, _ they want to go with what is familiar, close _ they want to go with what is

familiar, close to _ they want to go with what is familiar, close to home, - they want to go with what is familiar, close to home, not travettinq _ familiar, close to home, not travelling too _ familiar, close to home, not travelling too far, _ familiar, close to home, not travelling too far, and - familiar, close to home, not travelling too far, and also i travelling too far, and also remember— travelling too far, and also remember at _ travelling too far, and also rememberat the - travelling too far, and also remember at the moment| travelling too far, and also - remember at the moment flight travelling too far, and also _ remember at the moment flight prices around _ remember at the moment flight prices around the _ remember at the moment flight prices around the world _ remember at the moment flight prices around the world are _ remember at the moment flight prices around the world are still _ remember at the moment flight prices around the world are still quite - around the world are still quite high _ around the world are still quite high and — around the world are still quite high and that _ around the world are still quite high and that is _ around the world are still quite high and that is a _ around the world are still quite high and that is a disincentive. around the world are still quite . high and that is a disincentive for tonq-haut— high and that is a disincentive for long—haul travel. _ high and that is a disincentive for long—haul travel. as— high and that is a disincentive for long—haul travel. as the - high and that is a disincentive for long—haul travel. as the year- long—haul travel. as the year proqresses _ long—haul travel. as the year proqresses i _ long—haul travel. as the year progresses i think— long—haul travel. as the year progresses i think we - long—haul travel. as the year progresses i think we will- long—haul travel. as the year| progresses i think we will see patterns _ progresses i think we will see patterns are _ progresses i think we will see patterns are starting - progresses i think we will see patterns are starting to - progresses i think we will see i patterns are starting to change a little _ patterns are starting to change a little we — patterns are starting to change a little we witi— patterns are starting to change a little. we will see _ patterns are starting to change a little. we will see more - patterns are starting to change a i little. we will see more long—haul travel— little. we will see more long—haul travel from — little. we will see more long—haul travel from china _ little. we will see more long—haul travel from china but— little. we will see more long—haul travel from china but for- little. we will see more long—haul travel from china but for sure - little. we will see more long—haul travel from china but for sure this| travel from china but for sure this year— travel from china but for sure this year 2023 — travel from china but for sure this year 2023 will _ travel from china but for sure this year 2023 will be _ travel from china but for sure this year 2023 will be a _ travel from china but for sure this year 2023 will be a recovery- travel from china but for sure this year 2023 will be a recovery yeari travel from china but for sure this i year 2023 will be a recovery year of outbound _ year 2023 will be a recovery year of outbound travel— year 2023 will be a recovery year of outbound travel from china - year 2023 will be a recovery year of outbound travel from china and - year 2023 will be a recovery year of outbound travel from china and i. outbound travel from china and i think— outbound travel from china and i think the — outbound travel from china and i think the beneficiaries _ outbound travel from china and i think the beneficiaries will- think the beneficiaries will definitely— think the beneficiaries will definitely be _ think the beneficiaries will definitely be the - think the beneficiaries will definitely be the countries think the beneficiaries will. definitely be the countries of think the beneficiaries will- definitely be the countries of asia pacific _ definitely be the countries of asia pacific. ~ . ., , ., ., . pacific. when it comes to long-haul destinations. _ pacific. when it comes to long-haul destinations, do _ pacific. when it comes to long-haul destinations, do you _ pacific. when it comes to long-haul destinations, do you think- pacific. when it comes to long-haul destinations, do you think it's - destinations, do you think it's going to be the old favourites, the paris, london, new work permit, or are new destinations coming into vogue? i are new destinations coming into vouue? ~ . . are new destinations coming into vouue? ,, . , ., vogue? i think a bit of both -- new york. yes. — vogue? i think a bit of both -- new york. yes, new— vogue? i think a bit of both -- new york. yes, new york, _ vogue? i think a bit of both -- new york. yes, new york, los - vogue? i think a bit of both -- new york. yes, new york, los angeles. vogue? i think a bit of both -- new. york. yes, new york, los angeles. i think— york. yes, new york, los angeles. i think you _ york. yes, new york, los angeles. i think you will — york. yes, new york, los angeles. i think you will be _ york. yes, new york, los angeles. i think you will be looking _ york. yes, new york, los angeles. i think you will be looking at - think you will be looking at countries _ think you will be looking at countries in _ think you will be looking at countries in europe - think you will be looking at countries in europe that i think you will be looking at. countries in europe that were probably— countries in europe that were probably a _ countries in europe that were probably a little _ countries in europe that were probably a little less - countries in europe that were probably a little less to - countries in europe that were probably a little less to stay. probably a little less to stay before, _ probably a little less to stay before, like _ probably a little less to stay before, like the _ probably a little less to stay before, like the czech - probably a little less to stay- before, like the czech republic, serbia. — before, like the czech republic, serbia, montenegro, _ before, like the czech republic, serbia, montenegro, albania, l serbia, montenegro, albania, butqaria _ serbia, montenegro, albania, butqaria they— serbia, montenegro, albania, bulgaria. they have _ serbia, montenegro, albania, bulgaria. they have been - serbia, montenegro, albania, - bulgaria. they have been marketing quite hard _ bulgaria. they have been marketing quite hard to— bulgaria. they have been marketing quite hard to the _ bulgaria. they have been marketing quite hard to the chinese _ bulgaria. they have been marketing quite hard to the chinese market. quite hard to the chinese market during _ quite hard to the chinese market during the — quite hard to the chinese market during the pandemic— quite hard to the chinese market

during the pandemic and - quite hard to the chinese market during the pandemic and since i quite hard to the chinese market. during the pandemic and since china reopened _ during the pandemic and since china reopened there _ during the pandemic and since china reopened. there are _ during the pandemic and since china reopened. there are actually - during the pandemic and since chinai reopened. there are actually showing they realty— reopened. there are actually showing they really want — reopened. there are actually showing they really want chinese _ reopened. there are actually showing they really want chinese travellers i they really want chinese travellers to come _ they really want chinese travellers to come back _ they really want chinese travellers to come back. but— they really want chinese travellers to come back. but it _ they really want chinese travellers to come back. but it will— they really want chinese travellers to come back. but it will come - they really want chinese travellers l to come back. but it will come down to come back. but it will come down to flight— to come back. but it will come down to flight access, _ to come back. but it will come down to flight access, the _ to come back. but it will come down to flight access, the ability - to come back. but it will come down to flight access, the ability to - to come back. but it will come down to flight access, the ability to be - to flight access, the ability to be able to— to flight access, the ability to be able to get— to flight access, the ability to be able to get the _ to flight access, the ability to be able to get the flight _ to flight access, the ability to be able to get the flight for- to flight access, the ability to be able to get the flight for the - to flight access, the ability to bei able to get the flight for the price you want — able to get the flight for the price you want i— able to get the flight for the price you want i do _ able to get the flight for the price you want. i do think— able to get the flight for the price you want. i do think when - able to get the flight for the price you want. i do think when the - you want. i do think when the chinese — you want. i do think when the chinese ryan— you want. i do think when the chinese ryan to _ you want. i do think when the chinese ryan to cities - you want. i do think when the chinese ryan to cities like - you want. i do think when the - chinese ryan to cities like london, paris _ chinese ryan to cities like london, paris or— chinese ryan to cities like london, paris or madrid _ chinese ryan to cities like london, paris or madrid they _ chinese ryan to cities like london, paris or madrid they probably- chinese ryan to cities like london, paris or madrid they probably will. paris or madrid they probably will travel— paris or madrid they probably will travel a _ paris or madrid they probably will travel a little _ paris or madrid they probably will travel a little further— paris or madrid they probably will travel a little further afield - paris or madrid they probably will travel a little further afield in - travel a little further afield in those — travel a little further afield in those countries _ travel a little further afield in those countries than - travel a little further afield in those countries than they- travel a little further afield in those countries than they did travel a little further afield in - those countries than they did before 'ust those countries than they did before just to _ those countries than they did before just to explore — those countries than they did before just to explore destinations - those countries than they did before just to explore destinations in - just to explore destinations in those — just to explore destinations in those countries _ just to explore destinations in those countries that - just to explore destinations in those countries that are - just to explore destinations in those countries that are new. just to explore destinations in. those countries that are new to just to explore destinations in - those countries that are new to them and they— those countries that are new to them and they can — those countries that are new to them and they can actually _ those countries that are new to them and they can actually access - those countries that are new to them and they can actually access new - and they can actually access new cuttures, — and they can actually access new cultures, cuisines, _ and they can actually access new cultures, cuisines, experiences,| cultures, cuisines, experiences, that kind — cultures, cuisines, experiences, that kind of— cultures, cuisines, experiences, that kind of thing. _ cultures, cuisines, experiences, that kind of thing. i— cultures, cuisines, experiences, that kind of thing. i think- that kind of thing. i think everywhere _ that kind of thing. i think everywhere in _ that kind of thing. i think everywhere in asia - that kind of thing. i think. everywhere in asia pacific, that kind of thing. i think- everywhere in asia pacific, you know, _ everywhere in asia pacific, you know. we _ everywhere in asia pacific, you know. we were _ everywhere in asia pacific, you know, we were hit _ everywhere in asia pacific, you know, we were hit so - everywhere in asia pacific, you know, we were hit so hard - everywhere in asia pacific, you| know, we were hit so hard with everywhere in asia pacific, you - know, we were hit so hard with the pandemic— know, we were hit so hard with the pandemic and _ know, we were hit so hard with the pandemicand it— know, we were hit so hard with the pandemic and it lasted _ know, we were hit so hard with the pandemic and it lasted so- know, we were hit so hard with the pandemic and it lasted so long, - know, we were hit so hard with the| pandemic and it lasted so long, the travetters _ pandemic and it lasted so long, the travellers had _ pandemic and it lasted so long, the travellers had a _ pandemic and it lasted so long, the travellers had a long _ pandemic and it lasted so long, the travellers had a long time - pandemic and it lasted so long, the travellers had a long time to - pandemic and it lasted so long, the travellers had a long time to reallyi travellers had a long time to really rethink— travellers had a long time to really rethink what — travellers had a long time to really rethink what travel— travellers had a long time to really rethink what travel will _ travellers had a long time to really rethink what travel will mean - travellers had a long time to really rethink what travel will mean to i rethink what travel will mean to them _ rethink what travel will mean to them in — rethink what travel will mean to them in future, _ rethink what travel will mean to them in future, and _ rethink what travel will mean to them in future, and the - rethink what travel will mean toj them in future, and the chinese rethink what travel will mean to - them in future, and the chinese are no different — them in future, and the chinese are no different to _ them in future, and the chinese are no different to that. _ them in future, and the chinese are no different to that. they— them in future, and the chinese are no different to that. they want - them in future, and the chinese are no different to that. they want to l no different to that. they want to explain _ no different to that. they want to explain new — no different to that. they want to explain new things _ no different to that. they want to explain new things they- no different to that. they want to explain new things they haven't l no different to that. they want to - explain new things they haven't been able to— explain new things they haven't been able to do— explain new things they haven't been able to do for— explain new things they haven't been able to do for the _ explain new things they haven't been able to do for the last _ explain new things they haven't been able to do for the last three - explain new things they haven't been able to do for the last three years. i able to do for the last three years. if able to do for the last three years. if you _ able to do for the last three years. if you are — able to do for the last three years. if you are advising _ able to do for the last three years. if you are advising tourism - able to do for the last three years. | if you are advising tourism industry bosses around the world how to appeal to chinese tourists, what would you be telling them to do? rethink absolutely everything. everythinq _ rethink absolutely everything. everythinq you _ rethink absolutely everything. everything you learned - rethink absolutely everything. everything you learned before| rethink absolutely everything. i everything you learned before the pandemic, — everything you learned before the pandemic, rethink— everything you learned before the pandemic, rethink it. _ everything you learned before the

pandemic, rethink it. the - everything you learned before the pandemic, rethink it. the chinesej pandemic, rethink it. the chinese consumer— pandemic, rethink it. the chinese consumer economy, _ pandemic, rethink it. the chinese consumer economy, the - pandemic, rethink it. the chinese consumer economy, the chinesei consumer economy, the chinese domestic— consumer economy, the chinese domestic travel— consumer economy, the chinese domestic travel economy, - consumer economy, the chinese domestic travel economy, has i consumer economy, the chinese - domestic travel economy, has changed considerably— domestic travel economy, has changed considerably over— domestic travel economy, has changed considerably over the _ domestic travel economy, has changed considerably over the last _ domestic travel economy, has changed considerably over the last three - considerably over the last three years — considerably over the last three years. trends. _ considerably over the last three years. trends, technology, - years. trends, technology, pa rticuta rty _ years. trends, technology, particularly technology, - years. trends, technology, - particularly technology, because chinese — particularly technology, because chinese travellers _ particularly technology, because chinese travellers are _ particularly technology, because chinese travellers are very - particularly technology, because chinese travellers are very tech i chinese travellers are very tech savvy. — chinese travellers are very tech savvy. they— chinese travellers are very tech savvy, they metaverse - chinese travellers are very tech savvy, they metaverse savvy, l chinese travellers are very tech i savvy, they metaverse savvy, so chinese travellers are very tech - savvy, they metaverse savvy, so they are looking _ savvy, they metaverse savvy, so they are looking for — savvy, they metaverse savvy, so they are looking for expenses _ savvy, they metaverse savvy, so they are looking for expenses that - savvy, they metaverse savvy, so they are looking for expenses that take . are looking for expenses that take them _ are looking for expenses that take them into— are looking for expenses that take them into the _ are looking for expenses that take them into the real— are looking for expenses that take them into the real world _ are looking for expenses that take them into the real world of- are looking for expenses that take them into the real world of coursej them into the real world of course but in _ them into the real world of course but in terms — them into the real world of course but in terms of— them into the real world of course but in terms of marketing - them into the real world of course but in terms of marketing they- them into the real world of course| but in terms of marketing they are very adept — but in terms of marketing they are very adept at — but in terms of marketing they are very adept at mobile _ but in terms of marketing they are | very adept at mobile technologies. you also _ very adept at mobile technologies. you also have _ very adept at mobile technologies. you also have to _ very adept at mobile technologies. you also have to get _ very adept at mobile technologies. you also have to get rid _ very adept at mobile technologies. you also have to get rid of - very adept at mobile technologies. you also have to get rid of this - you also have to get rid of this view— you also have to get rid of this view that— you also have to get rid of this view that there _ you also have to get rid of this view that there is _ you also have to get rid of this view that there is such - you also have to get rid of this view that there is such a - you also have to get rid of this view that there is such a thing| you also have to get rid of this . view that there is such a thing as you also have to get rid of this - view that there is such a thing as a chinese _ view that there is such a thing as a chinese traveller. _ view that there is such a thing as a chinese traveller. there _ view that there is such a thing as a chinese traveller. there is- view that there is such a thing as a chinese traveller. there is no- chinese traveller. there is no typical— chinese traveller. there is no typical chinese _ chinese traveller. there is no typical chinese traveller. - chinese traveller. there is no typical chinese traveller. it. chinese traveller. there is no typical chinese traveller. it isj chinese traveller. there is no. typical chinese traveller. it is a huge _ typical chinese traveller. it is a huge country. _ typical chinese traveller. it is a huge country, huge _ typical chinese traveller. it is a huge country, huge market. i typical chinese traveller. it is a. huge country, huge market. the chinese — huge country, huge market. the chinese outbound _ huge country, huge market. the chinese outbound market - huge country, huge market. the chinese outbound market spans| chinese outbound market spans absotutety — chinese outbound market spans absolutely everything. - chinese outbound market spans absolutely everything. gar?- absolutely everything. gary bowerman. _ absolutely everything. gary bowerman, thank - absolutely everything. gary bowerman, thank you - absolutely everything. gary bowerman, thank you very| absolutely everything.“ bowerman, thank you very much. coming up after the break, can chinese consumers are still at a glittering return for one of the well�*s biggest jewellery glittering return for one of the well�*s biggestjewellery brands? i have the boss of pandora coming up next.

will be talking about revenge spending on how consumers have been making up for lost time by spending savings built up during the pandemic. in china over a billion consumers have come out of three years of on and off lockdowns. are you ready to spend a lot on cash and jewellery? pandora is one of the biggest brands in the sector in the world and its chief executive, alexander lacik, joins me now. alexander, you are about to relaunch your brand in china. what do you see as the potential there for pandora? pandora has been present in the market since 2010, had a kind of rebirth in 2015 which didn't go down that well, so we have been kind of waiting to relaunch the brand, and of course the last few years have been plagued by the restrictions

around the pandemic. so traffic into the stores have been very minimal. we have a knack with a kind of setting a bit on the sidelines waiting for the market to normalise. the perspective on why we are doing this —— we have been kind of sitting a bit on the sidelines. we believe pandora has a very good chance to play well in china, the largest market in the world. we have stores in roughly 70 cities so i would say our penetration is rather basic at this stage in the game but we need to kind of plan the roots of the brand then we can expand this further. �* brand then we can expand this further. . , ., brand then we can expand this further. �* , ., , brand then we can expand this further. . i. , , , ., further. are you seeing signs of revenue further. are you seeing signs of revenge spending _ further. are you seeing signs of revenge spending in _ further. are you seeing signs of revenge spending in china - further. are you seeing signs of revenge spending in china rightj further. are you seeing signs of- revenge spending in china right now? not really. when the pandemic unfolded in europe we had so much more of a comeback from consumers here. in china what we have been experiencing is more of a slower return. you know, when we were locked down for a while of course some of our customers migrated to the e—commerce business, but

jewellery in general, notjust for pandora, i believe, is a business where customers want to come in, they want to try it on, look and see how the jewellery fits them. so the physical aspect of the business is quite important. sol physical aspect of the business is quite important. so i think there was some pent—up demand when people had been locked up for a while and we kind of saw that be quite strong across europe right after the pandemic, and of course then it normalised after that. so whether that was revenge spending or people just kind of wanting to get out of their houses, i don't know. and outside of china how are things holding up? is the cost of living crisis eating into consumers�* budgets? yeah, we have had this macro fear in kind of touching the consumer wallet for i think well over a year by now with various different aspects of it. last year i believe our category fared relatively well. we grew our business by 7% in 2022.

so we kind of stood quite strong. the other aspect i think it is important to remember in particular for the pandora case, a lot of our products are bought to be used as gifts to celebrate birthdays and other things, so that puts a level of resilience into the business. so actually so far we are quite pleased with what we are seeing. i people still buying jewelry? perhaps less expensive items? —— and i people still buying jewellery? taste i people still buying 'ewellery? we look i people still buying jewellery? , look at the level of traffic which has been very healthy in the last 12-18 has been very healthy in the last 12—18 months. we convert at a very good level. we can see the basket size and the average selling price is rather stable, so may be some of that comes from other brands trading down. i really don't know. but as i mentioned last year we had 7% growth, and it appears we have a very good proposition here in tough

times. the way we try to talk about the brand is that we are an affordable luxury brand, and of course if somebody has a birthday i think we did make the average price for a time is £40, or £50, so that can be compared to a dinner, cinema ticket, bouquet of flowers, so we are in the affordable zone i think that will be a reason why it is holding up so well. i that will be a reason why it is holding up so well.— that will be a reason why it is holding up so well. i know it is only april _ holding up so well. i know it is only april but _ holding up so well. i know it is only april but i'm _ holding up so well. i know it is only april but i'm sure - holding up so well. i know it is only april but i'm sure you - holding up so well. i know it is only april but i'm sure you are j only april but i'm sure you are already thinking about christmas. how do you see this year being different? ~ . , different? well, i have been with pandora now _ different? well, i have been with pandora now for _ different? well, i have been with pandora now for four _ different? well, i have been with pandora now for four years - different? well, i have been with pandora now for four years and l different? well, i have been with i pandora now for four years and this will be my fifth christmas. each year has been a very different construct with the pandemics and inflation, the wires and what have you, so it is possibly going to be different. ijust don't know what it is —— the wearer tonight and what have you. we are getting ready with interesting innovation, interesting

retail experiences that we offer and thatis retail experiences that we offer and that is the controllable is we so let's see what the macro rings, but we are ready for different scenarios of course. �* . we are ready for different scenarios of course. . . .. ~ we are ready for different scenarios of course. . . ,, ., ~ of course. alexander lacik, thank ou ve of course. alexander lacik, thank you very much — of course. alexander lacik, thank you very much for _ of course. alexander lacik, thank you very much forjoining - of course. alexander lacik, thank you very much forjoining us - of course. alexander lacik, thank you very much forjoining us on i you very much forjoining us on talking business. that's it for this week. i hope you enjoyed the show. don't forget you can keep up with the latest on our global economy on the latest on our global economy on the bbc website or the smartphone app. you can also follow me on social media. i am @ tadhg enright. thank you for watching. goodbye. i will see you soon.

live from london. this is bbc news a man is arrested , and the japanese prime minister rushed to safety , after an explosion. gunfire and explosions have been heard in sudan's capital khartoum as the sudanese army clashes with paramilitary forces. witnesses report the fighting is close to the army headquaters in the centre of the city. france's president, emmanuel macron, signs into law his government's controversial pension reforms scientists say the remains of ancient viruses can help the body fight cancer. the french president visits notre—dame cathedral as restoration continues, four years since a fire destroyed significant parts of the world heritage landmark.