is on the way? # wejust want is on the way? # we just want fair pay. is on the way? # we “ust want fair -a . , a, , # we “ust want fair pay. doctors were # we just want fair pay. doctors were out. _ # we just want fair pay. doctors were out. and — # we just want fair pay. doctors were out, and nurses _ # we just want fair pay. doctors were out, and nurses were - # we just want fair pay. doctors were out, and nurses were on i # we just want fair pay. doctors l were out, and nurses were on the picket too after months of argument in that bitter winter. the? picket too after months of argument in that bitter winter.— in that bitter winter. they will continue for _ in that bitter winter. they will continue for as _ in that bitter winter. they will continue for as long _ in that bitter winter. they will continue for as long as - in that bitter winter. they will continue for as long as it - in that bitter winter. they will| continue for as long as it takes in that bitter winter. they will - continue for as long as it takes to get this government around the table to make a realistic pay offer. so more to make a realistic pay offer. 50 more strikes are on the way, with possible risks for patience too. and it's a serious setback for the government, who aren't backing down from their deal. this government, who aren't backing down from their deal.— from their deal. this is going to be better for patience, _ from their deal. this is going to be better for patience, who _ from their deal. this is going to be better for patience, who depend i from their deal. this is going to be | better for patience, who depend on betterfor patience, who depend on the nhs, but also betterfor nhs staff. the nhs, but also better for nhs staff. �* , , , staff. but with nurses, teachers, civil servants _ staff. but with nurses, teachers,

civil servants just _ staff. but with nurses, teachers, civil servants just some - staff. but with nurses, teachers, civil servantsjust some of - staff. but with nurses, teachers, civil servantsjust some of those | staff. but with nurses, teachers, l civil servantsjust some of those in civil servants just some of those in dispute, we have one big question this morning — can we avoid a summer of strikes? in the last half hour, the health secretary has written to pat cullen, the woman who'll lead the nurses onto the picket lines for their most serious strike. she's here in the studio. and so will be the the cabinet minister, tory chairman, greg hands. how will the government stop that strike from happening? but you might wonder, does labour have a better answer? the shadow health secretary, wes streeting, is with us. and we'll lift our eyes to the heavens — thejupiter icy moons explorer begins its eight—yearjourney hunting for life beyond earth. professor carole mundell is the lead scientist of the mission that's sent it into space, and she's with us on earth. to keep our feet on the ground, saffron cordery, from nhs providers, who speaks for hospital managers, will help us work out what the strikes mean.

mark bailie is the boss of compare the market that knows how we're all spending — or not — and economics brainbox stephanie flanders from bloomberg will help keep us right. morning, morning. welcome. so there are more nurses strikes on the way — we're going to try and find out how long they might last, how bad it might get, and how they could be avoided. let's have a look at the front pages. the observer goes with that story, saying the nurses are planning a mega strike. the mail on sunday claims to have saved the grand national at some of the disruption there yesterday. the sunday telegraph talks about the government's decision to get rid of some smart motorways. the sunday times has another health story about

a breast cancer surgeon. the sunday mail, which has been making much of the running on the snp police investigation, talks about nicola sturgeon�*s e—mails. and the mirror talks about health workers who might be on their way to the coronation. saffron cordery, let's talk about the strikes. what has the impact been a patient so far?— the strikes. what has the impact been a patient so far? well, we know there has been _ been a patient so far? well, we know there has been a _ been a patient so far? well, we know there has been a massive _ been a patient so far? well, we know there has been a massive impact - been a patient so far? well, we know there has been a massive impact on i there has been a massive impact on patience. disruption across the board. and we know there have been much higher risks on patient safety. there are some measurable impacts, 300 and 30,000 procedures, operations and appointments cancelled so far, not including this week's strikes that have just gone. and there are the wider costs as well, the impact of recovery from covid, the impact on staff morale and critically, the impact on productivity. and critically, the impact on productivity-—

productivity. that is really significant _ productivity. that is really significant already. - productivity. that is really - significant already. stephanie, what about the impact on the economy? this week we saw the office for national statistics and start to put numbers on it. national statistics and start to put numbers on it— national statistics and start to put numbers on it. yes, because we had the monthly — numbers on it. yes, because we had the monthly gdp _ numbers on it. yes, because we had the monthly gdp output _ numbers on it. yes, because we had the monthly gdp output figures, - numbers on it. yes, because we had | the monthly gdp output figures, how much _ the monthly gdp output figures, how much the _ the monthly gdp output figures, how much the economy produced in february. — much the economy produced in february, and it was expected to be positive _ february, and it was expected to be positive but— february, and it was expected to be positive but actually, the economy had flatlined. that did not look like it — had flatlined. that did not look like it was _ had flatlined. that did not look like it was entirely due to the strikes — like it was entirely due to the strikes because of the reduction of activity— strikes because of the reduction of activity in — strikes because of the reduction of activity in the government sector. 50 along — activity in the government sector. 50 along with everything else and the impact of the strikes, the fact that we _ the impact of the strikes, the fact that we have had more working days lost since _ that we have had more working days lost since the early 90s is contributing to that feeling that the economy is stagnating. and mark, throu~h the economy is stagnating. and mark, through your — the economy is stagnating. and mark, through your business, _ the economy is stagnating. and mark, through your business, you _ the economy is stagnating. and mark, through your business, you have - the economy is stagnating. and mark, through your business, you have lots. through your business, you have lots of contact with thousands of people everyday. are you seeing people changing their behaviour as a result the strikes?— changing their behaviour as a result the strikes? ~ , ., , ., the strikes? whenever we see lots of news flow about _ the strikes? whenever we see lots of news flow about something, - the strikes? whenever we see lots of news flow about something, we - the strikes? whenever we see lots of news flow about something, we do i the strikes? whenever we see lots of i news flow about something, we do see people _ news flow about something, we do see pecule changing — news flow about something, we do see people changing their— news flow about something, we do see people changing their behaviour. in- people changing their behaviour. in the last— people changing their behaviour. in the last three — people changing their behaviour. in the last three months, _ people changing their behaviour. in the last three months, we i people changing their behaviour. in the last three months, we have i people changing their behaviour. in. the last three months, we have seen an 80% _ the last three months, we have seen an 80% increase in people looking i an 80% increase in people looking

for private — an 80% increase in people looking for private medical— an 80% increase in people looking for private medical insurance. i an 80% increase in people looking i for private medical insurance. 80%? 80% _ for private medical insurance. 80%? 80% we _ for private medical insurance. 80%? 80% we are — for private medical insurance. 80%? 80%. we are seeing _ for private medical insurance. 80%? 80%. we are seeing between- for private medical insurance. 80%? i 80%. we are seeing between 90000 and 100,000 _ 80%. we are seeing between 90000 and 100,000 people — 80%. we are seeing between 90000 and 100,000 people a — 80%. we are seeing between 90000 and 100,000 people a month— 80%. we are seeing between 90000 and 100,000 people a month looking i 80%. we are seeing between 90000 and 100,000 people a month looking to- 100,000 people a month looking to -et 100,000 people a month looking to get private — 100,000 people a month looking to get private medical— 100,000 people a month looking to get private medical insurance i 100,000 people a month looking to get private medical insurance at i 100,000 people a month looking to get private medical insurance at thej get private medical insurance at the moment _ get private medical insurance at the moment. . . . get private medical insurance at the moment. ., , ., , moment. that is a significant chan . e. moment. that is a significant change- so — moment. that is a significant change. so in i moment. that is a significant change. so in all— moment. that is a significant change. so in all sorts i moment. that is a significant change. so in all sorts of i moment. that is a significant l change. so in all sorts of ways, moment. that is a significant i change. so in all sorts of ways, we are seeing the impact of the strikes, and notjust in health, because there has been widespread industrial unrest. we will talk to pat cullen from the rcn in a second, but we will also hear from labour's wes streeting. if there is one thing health bosses would like to hear from the labour party, what would it be? ., ., ., be? the fundamental thing we need to do is sort out — be? the fundamental thing we need to do is sort out social— be? the fundamental thing we need to do is sort out social care i be? the fundamental thing we need to do is sort out social care will i be? the fundamental thing we need to do is sort out social care will stun i do is sort out social care will stun it would be great to hear what the deal is that would be struck around social care and reforms to that. we will ut social care and reforms to that. we will put that to him later. thank you all for now. there is hard work for you head to help us through the stories. let's hear, then, from the woman herself who, in december last year, led the nurses union into its first uk—wide strike in its io6—year—old history —

think about that for a second. after a bitter standoff, real negotiations with ministers started and the strikes were paused. eventually a deal was reached — a payrise of 5% and a one—off bonus of at least £1,500 for health workers — that agreement approved by pat cullen the rcn leader, but late on friday, it was kicked out, narrowly, but clearly by a majority of her members. she's here. you recommended the deal. why did your members say no? itrui’eiiii. you recommended the deal. why did your members say no?— you recommended the deal. why did your members say no? well, i had the createst your members say no? well, i had the greatest respect _ your members say no? well, i had the greatest respect for i your members say no? well, i had the greatest respect for our i your members say no? well, i had the greatest respect for our members i your members say no? well, i had the greatest respect for our members and | greatest respect for our members and they believe this deal was neither fair nor reasonable. as you have said, our members took historic action, the first time in 106 years. for them, this painting was not historic. in fact, they have said that the one—off bonus that was

given to them was actually probably a bride, in their eyes. it isn't going to fix the long—term problems within the nhs —— it was a bribe. but you thought that deal was fair. you thought it was worth it, and yet you fail to persuade your members. well, i am directed by our members. they know what is right. then well, i am directed by our members. they know what is right.— they know what is right. then you were wrong? _ they know what is right. then you were wrong? the i they know what is right. then you were wrong? the elected i they know what is right. then you i were wrong? the elected governors deliberated long i were wrong? the elected governors deliberated long and i were wrong? the elected governors deliberated long and hard i were wrong? the elected governors deliberated long and hard about i were wrong? the elected governors| deliberated long and hard about this offer, and they concluded that they wouldn't gamble with people's livelihoods. there is money on the table, and we cannot determine whether that money will stay on the table. that is the reason that our elected governors decided to put this to our members and recommend it. but we are now in a position where our members have made that decision. we believe it is the right

decision. we believe it is the right decision. we believe it is the right decision. we need to fix the health service. we need to fix the problems in nursing. we still have thousands of vacant posts, and a one—off payment described as a covid bonus is not going to fix the health service. �* . . ~ is not going to fix the health service. �*, ., ,, ., ., , service. let's talk about how this situation might i service. let's talk about how this situation might get i service. let's talk about how this situation might get fixed. i service. let's talk about how this situation might get fixed. you i service. let's talk about how this i situation might get fixed. you have had a letter from the health secretary steve barclay in the last half hour. you have called for urgent talks. half hour. you have called for urgent talks-— half hour. you have called for uraenttalks. ~ ., , , , urgent talks. what has his response been? it's interesting i urgent talks. what has his response been? it's interesting that i urgent talks. what has his response been? it's interesting that it i urgent talks. what has his response been? it's interesting that it has i been? it's interesting that it has taken the health secretary days to respond to my letter, and i get it half an hour before i come on your programme. iwonder half an hour before i come on your programme. i wonder why in the first of all. that's not about being disrespectful to me, it is disrespectful to me, it is disrespectful to me, it is disrespectful to over 500,000 nurses that i represent.— that i represent. what has he said? it sa s that i represent. what has he said? it says very — that i represent. what has he said? it says very little, i that i represent. what has he said? it says very little, laura. i that i represent. what has he said? it says very little, laura. he i that i represent. what has he said? it says very little, laura. he has i it says very little, laura. he has spent longer writing in the sun today than he has responding to our half—million nurses. it says he believes the bonus they have put on

the table is enough and nurses should accept that and continue to work in the high—risk areas they are working on with the understaffing they have got. find working on with the understaffing they have got-— working on with the understaffing they have got. and he is asking you to ause they have got. and he is asking you to pause the _ they have got. and he is asking you to pause the strike i they have got. and he is asking you to pause the strike action. i they have got. and he is asking you to pause the strike action. will i they have got. and he is asking you to pause the strike action. will you| to pause the strike action. will you do that? ., , , ., ., do that? no. our nurses will not do that. we do that? no. our nurses will not do that- we have _ do that? no. our nurses will not do that. we have strike i do that? no. our nurses will not do that. we have strike action i do that? no. our nurses will not do that. we have strike action for- do that? no. our nurses will not do that. we have strike action for the. that. we have strike action for the end of this month and the beginning of may and then we will ballot our members. if that ballot is successful, it will mean further strike action until christmas. the person that can stop that, the people that can stop that are steve barclay and the prime minister. i would urge them again today to add to the money they have put on the table, respect nursing, respect the health service and let's get a resolution.— health service and let's get a resolution. ~ ., ., resolution. we will hear from the government _ resolution. we will hear from the government later, i resolution. we will hear from the government later, but i i resolution. we will hear from the government later, but i want i resolution. we will hear from the government later, but i want to l resolution. we will hear from the i government later, but i want to talk about the action your members are going to take again. in a couple of weeks, your members will for the first time, in a different way to the strikes we have already had, walk out of accident and emergency

departments, cancer wards. there won't be any so—called derogations, the deals that were put in place to try to protect care. that is a significant escalation of the action you were taking before. why is it justified? you were taking before. why is it 'ustified? �* . you were taking before. why is it 'ustified? �* , , you were taking before. why is it 'ustified? , , ., justified? because this government has not listened. i justified? because this government has not listened. that i justified? because this government has not listened. that is i justified? because this government has not listened. that is not i has not listened. that is not patients" — has not listened. that is not patients' fault. i has not listened. that is not patients' fault. no, i has not listened. that is not patients' fault. no, it's- has not listened. that is not patients' fault. no, it's not. | patients' fault. no, it's not. patients — patients' fault. no, it's not. patients are i patients' fault. no, it's not. patients are getting i patients' fault. no, it's not. patients are getting a i patients' fault. no, it's not. patients are getting a raw. patients' fault. no, it's not. i patients are getting a raw deal and have done for a number of years, as have done for a number of years, as have nurses. what i want to say to every patient who is listening this morning — to the health service is in a crisis caused by this government, not our nurses. this government, not our nurses. this government can't say on the one hand that we value nurses so much that they shouldn't go on strike, and that we don't value them enough to pay them. that is why we are in the crisis we are in. but nurses will not turn their backs on patients. when we are on strike, so far,

nurses have made sure that patient safety was at the core of all decision making. we will continue to do that. should there be a major incident or an incident that nurses have to deal with during a strike, they will return, as they have done from the picket lines throughout. but for anybody watching this morning, if something happening to them or theirfamily, that is a major incident. let me read you something aina said who shares the concerns of colleagues but is not going to take part in this more significant strike action —— this is something a nurse said. said, last time i had two, who are very poorly. if i had not been there and things have escalated, would they still be alive if i had walked out? that is my conscience talking to me. what is your conscience saying to you about this more dramatic action? there are thousands of — this more dramatic action? there are thousands of nurses i this more dramatic action? there are thousands of nurses every i this more dramatic action? there are thousands of nurses every day i this more dramatic action? there are thousands of nurses every day who . thousands of nurses every day who are battling with a health service thatis

are battling with a health service that is underfunded and has been left with total neglect by this government, with 10,000 vacant nursing posts. it is nurses like greg who have spent every day trying to find a way through that, understaffed, dealing with high levels of risk, morning, noon and night. we have continued to do that with a government that expects nurses to do it, and yet why are nurses to do it, and yet why are nurses quitting their posts? because they can no longer take the pressure is that this government expects them to operate under. that is that this government expects them to operate under.— to operate under. that is your view on the general _ to operate under. that is your view on the general situation, i to operate under. that is your view on the general situation, but i i to operate under. that is your view| on the general situation, but i want to press you again on the specifics of taking a different kind of strike action, a more radical strike action where there won't be the same kind of protections that have been before. do you accept by any reasonable logic that they strike will put patients in more danger and create more risk for patients? i have to say back to you, laura,

patients are at risk every single day in this health service. notjust on days when nurses are taking strike action. we are taking strike action to highlight these risks. not every nurse will be not available for work on a day of strike. there will be many nurses that don't belong to our union who will continue to work. there will not be hospitals with no nurses. and there will be nurses like greg who will not take strike action and that is their right. itruiiiiii not take strike action and that is their right-— their right. will you consider strikina their right. will you consider striking alongside i their right. will you consider striking alongside junior i their right. will you consider i striking alongside junior doctors? there was a lot of concern if those two things happen at the same time, that that could be actually dangerous. one nhs leader said there might not be basic care if that happened. iskate might not be basic care if that happened-— might not be basic care if that hauened. ~ ., , happened. we work closely with the bma, the same _ happened. we work closely with the bma, the same way i happened. we work closely with the bma, the same way as i happened. we work closely with the bma, the same way as doctors i happened. we work closely with the bma, the same way as doctors and | bma, the same way as doctors and nurses worked closely on every shift. there are no plans in place from the royal college of nursing to coordinate strikes with doctors. but

one of your deputies said a couple of nights ago that it might be a possibility. are you ruling out taking action at the same time as doctors? iskate taking action at the same time as doctors? ~ ., ., , ., , , doctors? we have no plans in place to coordinate _ doctors? we have no plans in place to coordinate strikes. i doctors? we have no plans in place to coordinate strikes. but i i doctors? we have no plans in place to coordinate strikes. but i would l to coordinate strikes. but i would say the impact, if this government continues to turn their back on the nurses and doctors that are striking, of course patients and the nhs will feel the impact of both doctors and nurses striking. as the general secretary of the college this morning, there are no plans to coordinate strikes with junior doctors. coordinate strikes with 'unior doctors. �* ., ., , doctors. but for our viewers watching. — doctors. but for our viewers watching. is _ doctors. but for our viewers watching, is it i doctors. but for our viewers watching, is it a i doctors. but for our viewers watching, is it a possibility. doctors. but for our viewers i watching, is it a possibility that in the coming months, there might be a day wherejunior in the coming months, there might be a day where junior doctors and nurses are both on picket lines rather than on the wards? i nurses are both on picket lines rather than on the wards? i can only seak for rather than on the wards? i can only speak for the _ rather than on the wards? i can only speak for the royal i rather than on the wards? i can only speak for the royal college i rather than on the wards? i can only speak for the royal college of i speak for the royal college of nursing this morning. we have no plans in place to coordinate strikes. but if the government

continues to allow doctors and nurses to spend their time on picket lines and not in their places of work, then of course the impact of those strikes, whether coordinated or not, will be felt by patients. 50 or not, will be felt by patients. so it is a or not, will be felt by patients. 50 it is a possibility. you are carefully trying to navigate here that it carefully trying to navigate here thatitis carefully trying to navigate here that it is not something you are trying to coordinate, but it is a possibility for our viewers this morning to hear that there might be a day in the next few months would neither doctors nor nurses at work. i don't think i can make it any clearer, laura. i have no plans in place as the general secretary of the royal college of nursing to plan strikes with junior doctors. one hospital boss has told the bbc in the last couple of days that they cannot comprehend how bad that might be, even as a vague possibility. could you reallyjustify it? you articulate the serious concerns of nurses, is there any point at which

you might step back from action because of the risks to the nhs felt too great? because of the risks to the nhs felt too treat? . . because of the risks to the nhs felt too treat? , , ., ., , too great? nurses have not stood back from the _ too great? nurses have not stood back from the nhs i too great? nurses have not stood back from the nhs for i too great? nurses have not stood back from the nhs for years i too great? nurses have not stood back from the nhs for years and l too great? nurses have not stood i back from the nhs for years and they have managed risk every single day for the last ten years, certainly throughout the time of this government. so the risks are there, laura. they are notjust there on the day of strike action, the risks within the health service to our patients are growing every single day because we do not have the doctors and nurses to look after our patients. patients deserve better, the public of country deserve better, it is for the government now to step up and ministers and look seriously at how they are going to fix the health service. there are going to do that by paying nurses and doctors properly so that we can retain them in the health service. what does that mean, being paid properly? you started out asking for i9%, properly? you started out asking for 19%, you then suggested 10% might be enough, the deals we had ended up being 5% with a one—off bonus. what

are you asking for nowt? if you will not be drawn on specifics, on a scale, with a few tweaks be enough or are you asking the government to comprehensively rethink their offer? members have spoken loud and clear in this vote and in this ballot. what we are asking the government is certainly not to remove anything that they are put on the table because that would be detrimental to where we are trying to get to. they need to add to it. i have always said, respectfully, laura, thati will not negotiate on... share said, respectfully, laura, that i will not negotiate on... are you askin: will not negotiate on... are you asking for _ will not negotiate on... are you asking for a _ will not negotiate on... are you asking for a few i will not negotiate on... are you asking for a few tweaks, i will not negotiate on... are you asking for a few tweaks, a i asking for a few tweaks, a sweetener, orare asking for a few tweaks, a sweetener, or are you asking for a comprehensive rethink? bear in mind, you said it was a fair offer, are you said it was a fair offer, are you asking for a rethink or if you tweaks? i you asking for a rethink or if you tweaks? ., ., ~' you asking for a rethink or if you tweaks? ., ., ~ ., tweaks? i do not thinki have ever said this was _ tweaks? i do not thinki have ever said this was a i tweaks? i do not thinki have ever said this was a fair i tweaks? i do not thinki have ever said this was a fair offer. ii tweaks? i do not thinki have ever said this was a fair offer. i said i said this was a fair offer. i said it was the best offer that we could

get from this government at this point in time. our members have said it is not fair and not reasonable. and i absolutely support them in that. we need to continue now to work with this government to make sure they get a fair, reasonable and historic payoff are given the historic payoff are given the historic position they find themselves in. respectfully, iam not going to do that on the airwaves. i do believe that this secretary of state and this government needs to get around the table very, very quickly and start to put more money on the table, start to treat nurses with a bit of decency and respect. that is not going to be hard to do, but they need to put money on the table. your very clearly — need to put money on the table. your very clearly said _ need to put money on the table. your very clearly said that i need to put money on the table. your very clearly said that it i need to put money on the table. your very clearly said that it has to be a biggerfinancial offer, buti very clearly said that it has to be a biggerfinancial offer, but ijust want to ask you also, having ledger members out on strike for the first time in more than 100 years, the offer you try to sell was rejected, also in the sunday times this morning there were some members of the rcn who try to organise a

petition to have a vote of no confidence in your leadership, given the situation, you can print your the situation, you can print your the best person to sort this out? yes, absolutely. i've been a nurse for 43 years, ibb leader of this couege for 43 years, ibb leader of this college now for less than two years. there are issues, we know that, it is subject to investigation. i wait for that investigation to conclude to look at the fraud which may be associated with that petition. that petition was notjust about associated with that petition. that petition was not just about anger towards me, but i am annoyed and disappointed that it is about how they have treated the other members of the royal college. i wait for the conclusion of that report and then we will take the appropriate action. you said at the beginning of the conversation that there will be another ballot of your members, another ballot of your members, another vote and could be strike action all the way up until christmas. can you say to our viewers this morning how likely that might be, a series of rolling strikes for another six months? that

is a question. _ strikes for another six months? that is a question, isn't i strikes for another six months? trust is a question, isn't it, firstly barclay and rishi sunak? did—mack it is a question for you too. it is fundamentally a question that they have got the answer to, the answer is to put more money on the table for our nursing staff, treat them properly that is what the people of england deserve. it is what every patient deserves. we hear that more and more patients now have had to resort to private health insurance because they cannot get the treatment and care that they are paid into the nhs for year over year. why not? because our nurses are leaving in droves. now the doctors are leaving in droves. this is a government that has turned their back on the nhs. now we need to get around the table and make sure that the crisis within this nhs is sorted out. iskate sure that the crisis within this nhs is sorted out-— is sorted out. we will put that to the government i is sorted out. we will put that to the government a i is sorted out. we will put that to the government a little i is sorted out. we will put that to the government a little later i is sorted out. we will put that to the government a little later in i is sorted out. we will put that to i the government a little later in the programme. thank you for coming in

this morning. we want to know — have you already faced the consquences of the strikes? had an opertation delayed? are you on the site of the health workers who have been on the picket line? email us kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk or use the hashtag bbclaurak — and there's a whole conversation going on on the bbc website too — bbc.co.uk/news. we would like to hear from you. you know that we sometimes use your questions, so do get in touch. is there a different approach? labour's wes streeting hopes to be health secretary one day, and he's here. let's hear what he has to say. thank you for coming in. do you support the royal college of nurses escalating their action and taking another more serious strike day. i am really worried about it, particularly the decision they appear to have taken to remove derogations, they accepted they put in place previously around emergency care, cancer care. ithink

in place previously around emergency care, cancer care. i think that is a real risk to patient safety. i hope they do not feel that escalating in that way is necessary. i really hope they don't. i must say, i think the dereliction of leadership from the government this week has been appalling. we have really seen or helped anything of the health secretary, the prime minister told parliament he did not want to get in the middle of this. you are the prime minister in the biggest crisis in the history of the nhs, hundreds of thousands of cancelled operations, real risk to patient safety, not my words, the words of nhs leaders, the prime minister does not think it is to get in the middle of it? ., ., , not think it is to get in the middle ofit? ., , of it? the labour party has exoressed _ of it? the labour party has expressed concerns i of it? the labour party has expressed concerns about| of it? the labour party has i expressed concerns about the more significant strike, do the therefore not have the support of the labour party? iskate not have the support of the labour pa ? ~ ., not have the support of the labour pa ? . ., ., not have the support of the labour pa ? ~ ., ., ., not have the support of the labour pa ?~ ., ., ., ., not have the support of the labour pa ?~ ., ., ., not have the support of the labour pa 7 ., ., ., , party? we do not want to see strikes in the nhs, — party? we do not want to see strikes in the nhs, we _ party? we do not want to see strikes in the nhs, we do i party? we do not want to see strikes in the nhs, we do not i party? we do not want to see strikes in the nhs, we do not want i party? we do not want to see strikes in the nhs, we do not want to i party? we do not want to see strikes in the nhs, we do not want to see i party? we do not want to see strikes| in the nhs, we do not want to see an escalation. what i do want to see is the government recognising that their approach to the strikes, the refusal to negotiate for months... the question is whether the labour party supports the royal college of

nurses, do you support the strikes? how could i? it is a risk to patient safety. i understand why they are in this position. when you're got a government that tells nurses... it is not surprising that nurses do not have a great deal of goodwill towards the government. just this week, just today, you're got the health secretary writing in the sun newspaper as if he is writing an agony aunt column, as if somehow he is a commentator, a passing observer rather than someone with notjust power but responsibility to try to resolve the strikes. whether it is junior doctors, whether it is nurses, we are going to be back here again and again and again unless the government can give people a sense of hope and alight government can give people a sense of hope and a light at the end of the tunnel that things are going to get better. i think that is what is missing. they are repeating the mistakes they made with the nurses all over again with junior doctors. the disruption this week was worse than the nurses and yet there hasn't even been any negotiation. they are not even around the table. it is

important _ not even around the table. it is important to — not even around the table. it is important to note i not even around the table. it is important to note that the biggest health union, unison, did accept the offer after negotiation with the covenant. you have been critical of the government was back handling, but let's talk about how you would fix it if you were in the job that you want to do, which is to be health secretary for the labour party. you said that the nurses�* original as of 19% was unaffordable. a 10% be affordable? will i think what we need is a workforce plan. the government have a plan. as i�*ve said before, we have got to see the strikes in the context of context of retention of nhs staff. i think the even bigger risk is notjust that people walk out four more days of industrial action, people walk out four more days of industrialaction, it people walk out four more days of industrial action, it is they walk out of the nhs altogether. when you com are out of the nhs altogether. when you compare pay — out of the nhs altogether. when you compare pay rates — out of the nhs altogether. when you compare pay rates in i out of the nhs altogether. when you compare pay rates in the i out of the nhs altogether. when you compare pay rates in the nhs i out of the nhs altogether. when you compare pay rates in the nhs to i compare pay rates in the nhs to other sectors, including retail, when you compare social care pay rates, there is a degree of uncompetitive missed out, so people are working out as well as going to other countries. i�*m not going to set your on your programme and pluck numbers out of the air and negotiate

on air... . . numbers out of the air and negotiate on air... ., , ., , on air... that is not plucking numbers _ on air... that is not plucking numbers out i on air. .. that is not plucking numbers out of— on air... that is not plucking numbers out of the i on air... that is not plucking numbers out of the air, i on air... that is not plucking numbers out of the air, our| on air... that is not plucking i numbers out of the air, our viewers want an idea of how labour would handle it differently. you say the government has made a mess of it, so how would you fix it? would 10% be affordable in your view? young i would not expect the health secretary to make commitments on here now. i secretary to make commitments on here now. ., , . ., here now. i would expect him to negotiate- _ here now. i would expect him to negotiate. you i here now. i would expect him to negotiate. you have i here now. i would expect him to negotiate. you have said i here now. i would expect him to i negotiate. you have said previously that 19% was _ negotiate. you have said previously that 19% was unaffordable, i negotiate. you have said previously that 19% was unaffordable, 3596 i negotiate. you have said previously that 19% was unaffordable, 3596 for| that 19% was unaffordable, 35% for the junior doctors was unaffordable, so you�*re happy sometimes to talk about numbers. i will ask you again, is 10% affordable? iskate about numbers. i will ask you again, is 1096 affordable?— is 1096 affordable? we will set out our manifesto i is 1096 affordable? we will set out our manifesto commitments i is 1096 affordable? we will set out | our manifesto commitments which is 1096 affordable? we will set out i our manifesto commitments which will be fully costed ahead of the election. the health secretary should be here, but he isn�*t. i�*m fed up of programmes are being asked out, a labour spokesperson, would fix conservative problems tomorrow as if i am in government tomorrow. i am not in government tomorrow. the conservatives are, but they are not sure, they do not answer questions, they do not have a plan. what we are doing is setting out the substantial

answers the nhs needs to make sure we are not your again and again. take our workforce plan, the biggest expansion of nhs staff in history, more doctors, nurses, or midwives. fixing the fundamental shortage of staff in the nhs we do not end up back you�*re over and over again. of course, should we win the next general election, there will be general election, there will he talks, negotiations, and i will be very happy to come back and see how labour is handling specific pay rises then. what we�*re doing this far out from the election is in broad terms setting out the fundamental things we need fix about the nhs. hopefully making sure that we have got an economic plan that sees sustained growth in the economy so that we can invest in people�*s p and other public services without having to hike up taxes. itruihat and other public services without having to hike up taxes.- having to hike up taxes. what is interesting _ having to hike up taxes. what is interesting is, i having to hike up taxes. what is interesting is, as i having to hike up taxes. what is interesting is, as an i having to hike up taxes. what is interesting is, as an aspiring i interesting is, as an aspiring labour health secretary, you are quite happy to say that the rcn is taking the wrong approach by escalating their strike action, you

have said previously that the doctors union, you said and that year that sometimes you found them completely maddening. you�*re quite happy a labour politician to pick holes in what the unions are doing, do you think if you do get to be health secretary might have a bit of a tricky time getting them on board? we will work with people. we want to give and nhs staff that there is a sense of light at the end of the tunnel. they will not continue to work on understaffed shifts, they will continue to feel completely burned out and going home at the end of the day feeling a sense of moral injury because despite doing their level best, they are seeing care for patients which falls below the standards they would expect, through no fault of their own. i think that is what is reflected in part by the rcn ballot result. i think it is a part of the workforce, the nursing workforce, who feel, i think, part of the workforce, the nursing workforce, who feel, ithink, really beaten up, really let down, really undervalued by the government. we want to change that. the booker judges on our record. look at what the last labour, dead with record

waiting times and sustained year after year investment and fair pay. because we got the economy growing. that is why when keir starmer talks about the importance of getting growth back into the economy, this is not some abstract argument, it is not some... for people like stephanie to have some positive numbers to look at for a change, it is about the power of the pound in people�*s pockets, being able to invest in public services. fine people's pockets, being able to invest in public services. one of the things _ invest in public services. one of the things that i invest in public services. one of the things that may i invest in public services. one of the things that may people i invest in public services. one of. the things that may people would agree needs investment desperately as social care. saffron represents nhs managers, she has said the one thing she would really like to note from you is what you�*re going to do about social care. i know there is a review that is being conducted, it was commissioned back in september, where is it? when are we going to see the results? iskate where is it? when are we going to see the results?— see the results? we are doing a review, see the results? we are doing a review. we _ see the results? we are doing a review, we will— see the results? we are doing a review, we will get i see the results? we are doing a review, we will get back i see the results? we are doing a review, we will get back shortly| see the results? we are doing a| review, we will get back shortly i believe. what i can say now, regardless, as a couple of really important things. the first is that

when you look at what the government has done with the funding for the discharges, for example, significant investment arrived too late. it has not made a single bit of difference. under a labour government, which social care be free at the point of use? ~ social care be free at the point of use? . . ., ., , social care be free at the point of use? ., , ,._ social care be free at the point of use? ., , , ., ., use? we cannot see universally for a roduct be use? we cannot see universally for a product be free _ use? we cannot see universally for a product be free at i use? we cannot see universally for a product be free at the i use? we cannot see universally for a product be free at the point i use? we cannot see universally for a product be free at the point of- use? we cannot see universally for a product be free at the point of use, i product be free at the point of use, that would be a very expensive big overnight change. what i want to see is a long—term plan that gets us towards a social care system that is accessible to everyone, has consistent standards for everyone, and is affordable for everyone. and has a workforce that can deliver it. i think what social care and the nhs have in common is that unless you have in common is that unless you have got the staff you need to provide the service, you do not have a service. we are seeing people leave it social care and ropes. social care providers struggling to recruit. ~ ., , social care providers struggling to recruit. ~ ., . social care providers struggling to recruit. ., , recruit. who will pay? will people be protected _ recruit. who will pay? will people be protected from i recruit. who will pay? will people be protected from having i recruit. who will pay? will people be protected from having to i recruit. who will pay? will people be protected from having to sell. recruit. who will pay? will people l be protected from having to sell the house to fund their care? iskate be protected from having to sell the house to fund their care?— house to fund their care? we are thinkin: house to fund their care? we are thinking really i house to fund their care? we are thinking really carefully i house to fund their care? we are

thinking really carefully about i house to fund their care? we are| thinking really carefully about the promises that go into our manifesto. what i do not want to do is where we have been under successive governments and successive conservative manifestos of big promises being made and then no delivery. i think my starting point is around the social care workforce, making sure they are fairly paid so that we can recruit and retain the best people. also to look at the quality of care that care users, whether they are disabled people, or older people requiring care later in life. those are my two starting points of priority.— life. those are my two starting points of priority. argue very for cominr points of priority. argue very for coming in- _ points of priority. argue very for coming in- -- — points of priority. argue very for coming in. -- thank— points of priority. argue very for coming in. -- thank you i points of priority. argue very for coming in. -- thank you very i points of priority. argue very for i coming in. -- thank you very much coming in. —— thank you very much for coming in. staffing is such a huge part of the problems across the public services. we�*ve heard, then, from labour, a little bit from the government, and at length from pat cullen. let�*s check in with mark bailie from compare the market, stephanie flanders from bloomberg, the economic experet, but first saffron cordery, who represents hospital bosses. what you make of what pat cullen had

to say about the strikes coming up? we are in that difficult situation, and it�*s clear to me that is not sustainable for the nhs to manage strike action. it feels like an ugly situation to say we are going to have strikes until christmas. so we desperately need the government to come to the table alongside the unions to sort this out. alongside that, we have to make sure there is the funding available for any settlement and that they publish the plan they have got for the workforce in the long term. they keep promising it, but is not coming. that would give people some assurance that there is a funded plan for the future. you assurance that there is a funded plan for the future.— plan for the future. you say it's not sustainable i plan for the future. you say it's not sustainable to i plan for the future. you say it's not sustainable to go i plan for the future. you say it's not sustainable to go on i plan for the future. you say it's not sustainable to go on like i plan for the future. you say it's i not sustainable to go on like this, but do you think, especially if there were to be junior doctors and nurses on strike at the same time, would people lose their lives needlessly? i know it is a tough

question, but you have to be clear with the audience, would that happen? with the audience, would that ha--en? v with the audience, would that ha en? �* . ' . with the audience, would that ha--en? v ' . . with the audience, would that ha--en? h , . . “_ happen? it's difficult to say whether that i happen? it's difficult to say whether that is i happen? it's difficult to say whether that is the i happen? it's difficult to say whether that is the case i happen? it's difficult to say whether that is the case or| happen? it's difficult to say i whether that is the case or not. we know there are higher levels of risk notjust in hospitals, but in mental care, everyone is affected by these strikes. ., . . care, everyone is affected by these strikes. ,, , ., ., strikes. stephanie, the government often uses its _ strikes. stephanie, the government often uses its justification i strikes. stephanie, the government often uses itsjustification not i strikes. stephanie, the government often uses itsjustification not to i often uses its justification not to put money on the table of their concern that inflation, which we know is putting pressure on people, will be bumped further up if they had lots of money over to the public sector. as a very expert economist, does that stack up? it is sector. as a very expert economist, does that stack up?— does that stack up? it is not something _ does that stack up? it is not something economists i does that stack up? it is not something economists tend | does that stack up? it is not i something economists tend to agree with, something economists tend to agree with. sorry — something economists tend to agree with, sorry. if you have a private sector— with, sorry. if you have a private sector company increase its wages, that goes— sector company increase its wages, that goes directly into the cost of making _ that goes directly into the cost of making that product or service and may then — making that product or service and may then end up they have to increase — may then end up they have to increase the price in the shops. that— increase the price in the shops. that is— increase the price in the shops. that is not— increase the price in the shops. that is not the case with public sector— that is not the case with public sector workers. there is a price that— sector workers. there is a price that is— sector workers. there is a price that is going to go up. of course there _ that is going to go up. of course there is— that is going to go up. of course there is a — that is going to go up. of course there is a bill to be paid and one would _ there is a bill to be paid and one would always have to ask questions about— would always have to ask questions about where the money is going to come _ about where the money is going to come from. — about where the money is going to

come from, is it going to squeeze other— come from, is it going to squeeze other things in the health service and increase health spending? there is an additional demand on the economy— is an additional demand on the economy which could increase inflation — economy which could increase inflation at the margins, but this equivalence, people understand that if a private _ equivalence, people understand that if a private sector company raises wages. _ if a private sector company raises wages, that will add to costs and prices _ wages, that will add to costs and prices it— wages, that will add to costs and prices. itjust isn't the same thing for public— prices. itjust isn't the same thing for public sector workers. and when you have _ for public sector workers. and when you have had the kind of gap that has opened up since 2010 between public— has opened up since 2010 between public and — has opened up since 2010 between public and private sector workers in terms _ public and private sector workers in terms of _ public and private sector workers in terms of their pay, even with the difference — terms of their pay, even with the difference of conditions, that is in itself_ difference of conditions, that is in itself an— difference of conditions, that is in itself an issue in terms of morale and in _ itself an issue in terms of morale and in terms of the stability of the system _ and in terms of the stability of the s stem. ~ . ~ and in terms of the stability of the s stem. n. ~' ,, and in terms of the stability of the s stem. a, ,, i. ., and in terms of the stability of the s stem. ,, ., , and in terms of the stability of the sstem. ,, ,, ,, system. mark, you run a big business with compare — system. mark, you run a big business with compare the i system. mark, you run a big business with compare the market, i system. mark, you run a big business with compare the market, but i system. mark, you run a big business with compare the market, but you i system. mark, you run a big business| with compare the market, but you are also involved with the nhs test and trace, which came in for quite a bit of stick. it might be something you wish to forget. but when you look at the different approaches of the different sectors where wages are very different, how would you as an employer approach this mess? it�*s employer approach this mess? it's difficult to say. pay settlements in

large _ difficult to say. pay settlements in large companies _ difficult to say. pay settlements in large companies are _ difficult to say. pay settlements in large companies are difficult. i difficult to say. pay settlements in large companies are difficult. last| large companies are difficult. last year was tough _ large companies are difficult. last year was tough. we _ large companies are difficult. last year was tough. we only i large companies are difficult. last year was tough. we only had i large companies are difficult. last year was tough. we only had 4% i large companies are difficult. last. year was tough. we only had 4% as the budget— year was tough. we only had 4% as the budget we _ year was tough. we only had 4% as the budget we could _ year was tough. we only had 4% as the budget we could afford. i year was tough. we only had 4% as the budget we could afford. the i year was tough. we only had 4% asl the budget we could afford. the way we approached — the budget we could afford. the way we approached it— the budget we could afford. the way we approached it is, _ the budget we could afford. the way we approached it is, we _ the budget we could afford. the way we approached it is, we looked i the budget we could afford. the way we approached it is, we looked at. we approached it is, we looked at what _ we approached it is, we looked at what the — we approached it is, we looked at what the cost _ we approached it is, we looked at what the cost of _ we approached it is, we looked at what the cost of inflation i we approached it is, we looked at what the cost of inflation was i we approached it is, we looked at what the cost of inflation was in i what the cost of inflation was in pound _ what the cost of inflation was in pound notes— what the cost of inflation was in pound notes for— what the cost of inflation was in pound notes for individuals, i what the cost of inflation was in| pound notes for individuals, and it's clear— pound notes for individuals, and it's clear that— pound notes for individuals, and it's clear that the _ pound notes for individuals, and it's clear that the people i pound notes for individuals, and it's clear that the people who i pound notes for individuals, and i it's clear that the people who are hearing _ it's clear that the people who are hearing the — it's clear that the people who are hearing the brunt _ it's clear that the people who are hearing the brunt of _ it's clear that the people who are hearing the brunt of inflation i it's clear that the people who are i bearing the brunt of inflation other people _ bearing the brunt of inflation other people who — bearing the brunt of inflation other people who are _ bearing the brunt of inflation other people who are earning i bearing the brunt of inflation other people who are earning less i bearing the brunt of inflation other people who are earning less than i bearing the brunt of inflation other. people who are earning less than the average _ people who are earning less than the average salary— people who are earning less than the average salary in _ people who are earning less than the average salary in the _ people who are earning less than the average salary in the uk. i people who are earning less than the average salary in the uk. 50- people who are earning less than the average salary in the uk. 50 we i average salary in the uk. 50 we structured — average salary in the uk. 50 we structured our— average salary in the uk. 50 we structured our entire i average salary in the uk. 50 we structured our entire pay- average salary in the uk. 50 we structured our entire pay rise i structured our entire pay rise towards _ structured our entire pay rise towards our— structured our entire pay rise towards our lowest i structured our entire pay rise towards our lowest paid i structured our entire pay rise i towards our lowest paid colleagues. 50 towards our lowest paid colleagues. so at _ towards our lowest paid colleagues. so at the _ towards our lowest paid colleagues. so at the start— towards our lowest paid colleagues. 50 at the start of— towards our lowest paid colleagues. 50 at the start of their _ towards our lowest paid colleagues. 50 at the start of their careers, i so at the start of their careers, many— so at the start of their careers, many people _ so at the start of their careers, many people are _ so at the start of their careers, many people are getting i so at the start of their careers, many people are getting 10% i so at the start of their careers, | many people are getting 10% to so at the start of their careers, i many people are getting 10% to 12% pay rises _ many people are getting 10% to 12% pay rises 0ur— many people are getting 10% to 12% pay rises. our more _ many people are getting 10% to 12% pay rises. our more senior- many people are getting 10% to 12% i pay rises. our more senior employees were getting _ pay rises. our more senior employees were getting i%~ — pay rises. 0ur more senior employees were getting 1%. but— pay rises. our more senior employees were getting 1%. but that _ pay rises. our more senior employees were getting 1%. but that meant i pay rises. our more senior employees were getting 1%. but that meant we i were getting 1%. but that meant we knew we _ were getting 1%. but that meant we knew we had — were getting 1%. but that meant we knew we had protected _ were getting 1%. but that meant we knew we had protected the i were getting 1%. but that meant we knew we had protected the most i knew we had protected the most vulnerable — knew we had protected the most vulnerable against _ knew we had protected the most vulnerable against the i knew we had protected the most vulnerable against the inflation, | vulnerable against the inflation, which _ vulnerable against the inflation, which will— vulnerable against the inflation, which will hopefully— vulnerable against the inflation, which will hopefully pass i vulnerable against the inflation, which will hopefully pass as - vulnerable against the inflation, which will hopefully pass as wel vulnerable against the inflation, i which will hopefully pass as we get through— which will hopefully pass as we get through the — which will hopefully pass as we get through the end _ which will hopefully pass as we get through the end of _ which will hopefully pass as we get through the end of this _ which will hopefully pass as we get through the end of this year. - which will hopefully pass as we get through the end of this year. but l through the end of this year. but talking _ through the end of this year. but talking about _ through the end of this year. but talking about blanket _ through the end of this year. but talking about blanket increases l talking about blanket increases across — talking about blanket increases across the _ talking about blanket increases across the whole _ talking about blanket increases across the whole workforce - talking about blanket increases - across the whole workforce doesn't address _ across the whole workforce doesn't address the — across the whole workforce doesn't address the issue _ across the whole workforce doesn't address the issue of _ across the whole workforce doesn't address the issue of who _ across the whole workforce doesn't address the issue of who is - across the whole workforce doesn't address the issue of who is payingi

address the issue of who is paying the price — address the issue of who is paying the rice. ., ., , ., . . ., the price. you get lots of data from eo - le the price. you get lots of data from peeple day — the price. you get lots of data from peeple day by _ the price. you get lots of data from peeple day by day _ the price. you get lots of data from people day by day about _ the price. you get lots of data from people day by day about what - people day by day about what people are spending and how they are dealing with their budgets. what i see you seeing at the moment? taste see you seeing at the moment? we have just had the numbers for march, and i have just had the numbers for march, and t was _ have just had the numbers for march, and t was quite — have just had the numbers for march, and i was quite taken _ have just had the numbers for march, and i was quite taken aback— have just had the numbers for march, and i was quite taken aback when- have just had the numbers for march, and i was quite taken aback when i. and i was quite taken aback when i sawthem~ — and i was quite taken aback when i saw them in — and i was quite taken aback when i saw them. in march, _ and i was quite taken aback when i saw them. in march, 7.6— and i was quite taken aback when i saw them. in march, 7.6 million. saw them. in march, 7.6 million people _ saw them. in march, 7.6 million people use _ saw them. in march, 7.6 million people use to— saw them. in march, 7.6 million people use to compare - saw them. in march, 7.6 million people use to compare the - saw them. in march, 7.6 million i people use to compare the market saw them. in march, 7.6 million - people use to compare the market to try and _ people use to compare the market to try and save _ people use to compare the market to try and save money. _ people use to compare the market to try and save money. that _ people use to compare the market to try and save money. that is _ people use to compare the market to try and save money. that is an- try and save money. that is an increase — try and save money. that is an increase from _ try and save money. that is an increase from 5.4 _ try and save money. that is an increase from 5.4 million - try and save money. that is an increase from 5.4 million a - try and save money. that is ani increase from 5.4 million a year ago _ increase from 5.4 million a year ago wherr— increase from 5.4 million a year ago when we _ increase from 5.4 million a year ago. when we talk— increase from 5.4 million a year ago. when we talk to _ increase from 5.4 million a year| ago. when we talk to customers increase from 5.4 million a year. ago. when we talk to customers to try to _ ago. when we talk to customers to try to understand _ ago. when we talk to customers to try to understand such _ ago. when we talk to customers to try to understand such a _ ago. when we talk to customers to try to understand such a big - try to understand such a big increase. _ try to understand such a big increase, half— try to understand such a big increase, half of— try to understand such a big increase, half of all- try to understand such a big - increase, half of all households are now increase, half of all households are how saying — increase, half of all households are how saying in — increase, half of all households are how saying in the _ increase, half of all households are now saying in the last _ increase, half of all households are now saying in the last month, - increase, half of all households are now saying in the last month, they| now saying in the last month, they have _ now saying in the last month, they have struggled _ now saying in the last month, they have struggled to _ now saying in the last month, they have struggled to pay— now saying in the last month, they have struggled to pay bills. - now saying in the last month, they have struggled to pay bills. those i have struggled to pay bills. those bills have — have struggled to pay bills. those bills have gone _ have struggled to pay bills. those bills have gone up _ have struggled to pay bills. those bills have gone up about- have struggled to pay bills. those bills have gone up about £750 - have struggled to pay bills. those| bills have gone up about £750 this year _ bills have gone up about £750 this year it— bills have gone up about £750 this year it is— bills have gone up about £750 this year. it is how— bills have gone up about £750 this year. it is now 18p _ bills have gone up about £750 this year. it is now 18p in _ bills have gone up about £750 this year. it is now 18p in every- bills have gone up about £750 this year. it is now 18p in every poundi year. it is now 18p in every pound that people — year. it is now 18p in every pound that people are _ year. it is now 18p in every pound that people are spending. - year. it is now 18p in every pound that people are spending. what l year. it is now 18p in every pound i that people are spending. what we see consistently— that people are spending. what we see consistently is _ that people are spending. what we see consistently is that _ that people are spending. what we see consistently is that those - see consistently is that those people — see consistently is that those people who _ see consistently is that those people who make _ see consistently is that those people who make big - see consistently is that those i people who make big companies compete — people who make big companies compete for— people who make big companies compete for their— people who make big companies compete for their business - people who make big companies compete for their business get l people who make big companies l compete for their business get the savings _ compete for their business get the

savings most _ compete for their business get the savings most of— compete for their business get the savings. most of us _ compete for their business get the savings. most of us will _ compete for their business get the savings. most of us will have - compete for their business get the savings. most of us will have had i savings. most of us will have had our broadband _ savings. most of us will have had our broadband bills _ savings. most of us will have had our broadband bills go— savings. most of us will have had our broadband bills go up- savings. most of us will have had our broadband bills go up by- savings. most of us will have had our broadband bills go up by 15%| savings. most of us will have had l our broadband bills go up by 15% in the tast— our broadband bills go up by 15% in the last month. _ our broadband bills go up by 15% in the last month. i— our broadband bills go up by 15% in the last month. i did _ our broadband bills go up by 15% in the last month. i did a _ our broadband bills go up by 15% in the last month. i did a search- our broadband bills go up by 15% in the last month. i did a search and. the last month. i did a search and the last month. i did a search and the savings — the last month. i did a search and the savings i _ the last month. i did a search and the savings i could _ the last month. i did a search and the savings i could see _ the last month. i did a search and the savings i could see were - the last month. i did a search and the savings i could see were justi the savings i could see were just under— the savings i could see were just under £200 _ the savings i could see were just under £200 and _ the savings i could see were just under £200 and with _ the savings i could see were just under £200 and with a _ the savings i could see were just under £200 and with a faster - the savings i could see were just - under £200 and with a faster speed. and when— under £200 and with a faster speed. and when getting _ under £200 and with a faster speed. and when getting real— under £200 and with a faster speed. and when getting real wages - under £200 and with a faster speed. and when getting real wages to - under £200 and with a faster speed. and when getting real wages to rise| and when getting real wages to rise is going _ and when getting real wages to rise is going to — and when getting real wages to rise is going to be — and when getting real wages to rise is going to be heard, _ and when getting real wages to rise is going to be heard, getting - and when getting real wages to risej is going to be heard, getting people to make _ is going to be heard, getting people to make big — is going to be heard, getting people to make big companies— is going to be heard, getting people to make big companies fight- is going to be heard, getting people to make big companies fight for- to make big companies fight for their— to make big companies fight for their business, _ to make big companies fight for their business, make _ to make big companies fight for their business, make them - to make big companies fight for their business, make them give to make big companies fight for- their business, make them give you their business, make them give you the savings — their business, make them give you the savings you _ their business, make them give you the savings you deserve, _ their business, make them give you the savings you deserve, is- their business, make them give you the savings you deserve, is one - their business, make them give you the savings you deserve, is one of. the savings you deserve, is one of the savings you deserve, is one of the things— the savings you deserve, is one of the things to — the savings you deserve, is one of the things to cover— the savings you deserve, is one of the things to cover the _ the savings you deserve, is one of the things to cover the gap. - the savings you deserve, is one of the things to cover the gap. thenl the things to cover the gap. then consumers _ the things to cover the gap. then consumers are _ the things to cover the gap. then consumers are having _ the things to cover the gap. then consumers are having to - the things to cover the gap. consumers are having to work the things to cover the gap.- consumers are having to work hard the things to cover the gap— consumers are having to work hard to make ends meet. stephanie, people will be looking at inflation figures coming up and there is a piece in the observer this morning that points to the fact that sometimes economic forecasters get things wrong. but with your crystal ball, what can we expect? because for everybody�*s wallet, but also for the government, inflation coming down is vital. is it going to happen? taste

vital. is it going to happen? we will aet vital. is it going to happen? we will get the numbers this week which showed _ will get the numbers this week which showed what is going on with wages. but when _ showed what is going on with wages. but when you look at the inflation humbers, — but when you look at the inflation numbers, we're pretty confident that inflation _ numbers, we're pretty confident that inflation will come under 10%, which is symbolically important. we have been _ is symbolically important. we have been waiting for that for a while. the only— been waiting for that for a while. the only reason we can be a more confident— the only reason we can be a more confident of— the only reason we can be a more confident of that than most forecasters, we are comparing it to the period — forecasters, we are comparing it to the period a — forecasters, we are comparing it to the period a year ago when energy prices _ the period a year ago when energy pricesjumped a lot, and energy prices _ pricesjumped a lot, and energy prices have been a big part of the inflation — prices have been a big part of the inflation increase. so as that falls out of _ inflation increase. so as that falls out of the — inflation increase. so as that falls out of the comparison, we should see it come _ out of the comparison, we should see it come under 10%. if you look at those _ it come under 10%. if you look at those numbers and what is happening with wages, which we are also seeing this week— with wages, which we are also seeing this week along with unemployment, the bank— this week along with unemployment, the bank of england will want to be looking _ the bank of england will want to be looking at— the bank of england will want to be looking at that and potentially deciding next month that they might not increase interest rates again. there _ not increase interest rates again. there is— not increase interest rates again. there is a — not increase interest rates again. there is a lot of disagreement arouhd — there is a lot of disagreement around that. a there is a lot of disagreement around that.— there is a lot of disagreement around that. a big chunk of this de-ends around that. a big chunk of this depends on _ around that. a big chunk of this depends on the _ around that. a big chunk of this depends on the energy - around that. a big chunk of this depends on the energy prices. | around that. a big chunk of this i depends on the energy prices. we around that. a big chunk of this - depends on the energy prices. we are seeing _ depends on the energy prices. we are seeing the _ depends on the energy prices. we are seeing the gas — depends on the energy prices. we are

seeing the gas price, _ depends on the energy prices. we are seeing the gas price, which— depends on the energy prices. we are seeing the gas price, which really- seeing the gas price, which really drives— seeing the gas price, which really drives prices— seeing the gas price, which really drives prices in— seeing the gas price, which really drives prices in the _ seeing the gas price, which really drives prices in the uk, _ seeing the gas price, which really drives prices in the uk, was- seeing the gas price, which really drives prices in the uk, was 40p| seeing the gas price, which really. drives prices in the uk, was 40p for the tast— drives prices in the uk, was 40p for the last decade. _ drives prices in the uk, was 40p for the last decade. it _ drives prices in the uk, was 40p for the last decade. it reached - drives prices in the uk, was 40p for the last decade. it reached 800 - drives prices in the uk, was 40p for the last decade. it reached 800 p. drives prices in the uk, was 40p for| the last decade. it reached 800 p to 900 p— the last decade. it reached 800 p to 900 p tast _ the last decade. it reached 800 p to 900 p last august. _ the last decade. it reached 800 p to 900 p last august, a _ the last decade. it reached 800 p to 900 p last august, a massive - the last decade. it reached 800 p to| 900 p last august, a massive shock. it is 900 p last august, a massive shock. it is back— 900 p last august, a massive shock. it is back at— 900 p last august, a massive shock. it is back at 100 _ 900 p last august, a massive shock. it is back at 100 now— 900 p last august, a massive shock. it is back at 100 now and _ 900 p last august, a massive shock. it is back at 100 now and forecast - it is back at 100 now and forecast are difficult— it is back at 100 now and forecast are difficult to _ it is back at 100 now and forecast are difficult to make, _ it is back at 100 now and forecast are difficult to make, but- it is back at 100 now and forecast are difficult to make, but if- it is back at 100 now and forecast are difficult to make, but if we i are difficult to make, but if we carry— are difficult to make, but if we carry on— are difficult to make, but if we carry on on— are difficult to make, but if we carry on on the _ are difficult to make, but if we carry on on the current - are difficult to make, but if we . carry on on the current trajectory, this unwinding _ carry on on the current trajectory, this unwinding of— carry on on the current trajectory, this unwinding of the _ carry on on the current trajectory, this unwinding of the energy- carry on on the current trajectory, i this unwinding of the energy shock is due _ this unwinding of the energy shock is due. ~ . ., . , is due. when inflation falls, you have still got — is due. when inflation falls, you have still got the _ is due. when inflation falls, you have still got the higher - is due. when inflation falls, you have still got the higher prices i have still got the higher prices from _ have still got the higher prices from before. so if your wages haven't— from before. so if your wages haven't kept up, that hit to your standard — haven't kept up, that hit to your standard of living will still be there — standard of living will still be there because inflation isjust showing — there because inflation isjust showing you how much prices are going _ showing you how much prices are going up — showing you how much prices are oiiin u. ., . , showing you how much prices are uu-oinu. , ., ,�* . going up. exactly, it doesn't mean rices going up. exactly, it doesn't mean prices coming _ going up. exactly, it doesn't mean prices coming down, _ going up. exactly, it doesn't mean prices coming down, it _ going up. exactly, it doesn't mean prices coming down, it means - going up. exactly, it doesn't mean| prices coming down, it means they are increasing us quickly. saffron, the context that people look at in terms of the health service gobbling up terms of the health service gobbling up more and more of the national pie, staff saying they need more, do we need to have a reckoning about the cost of health care? our politicians being honest about the costs? i

politicians being honest about the costs? ~ �* . politicians being honest about the costs? ~' �* , . . politicians being honest about the costs? ~ �* , . . . costs? i think it's quite clear that there are significant _ costs? i think it's quite clear that there are significant policy - there are significant policy decisions that have got us to where we are. demand is going up and up. we never seem to see a lid on that. but our spending on public health, for example and prevention has come down significantly in the last ten years. that is one thing we could do to get ahead of the curve and make sure we start to put a lid on demand. the pay issue is critical. i don't want to keep bringing us back to pay, but we heard mark talking about what they do in their company to negotiate pay. we are in a situation in the nhs with over 1.1 million staff and a national negotiation on pay, but we have got trust leaders still needing to maintain those relationships with their workforce and lead their organisations, but they are not in the position to impact that on pay. that really undermines morale and it

also speaks to how difficult it's going to be to turn the corner on improvement and productivity. because for as long as this is going on, some of those big questions are not getting answered. finally, could you spell out if there is joint strike action by doctors and nurses out at the same time? one health leader told us yesterday that he couldn't comprehend what that might be like. taste couldn't comprehend what that might be like. ~ . ., couldn't comprehend what that might be like. . . ., , be like. we have had conversations in our organisations _ be like. we have had conversations in our organisations and _ be like. we have had conversations in our organisations and across - be like. we have had conversations in our organisations and across the | in our organisations and across the trust leaders about how this would look. it is really worrying. we know that when we have had the derogations in the past, it has felt like there has been that safety net. that will disappear and we will find ourselves in a situation where already, we are devoting so much resource to keeping patients safe in an emergency. that is what has to happen. that means of course that we

will see the foot coming off the pedal in things like routine operations, routine mental health appointments, routine community care visits. so we get a further backlog and then the waiting lists go up more. the nhs has done a brilliant job on waiting lists so far. it has managed well, but it's not sustainable in the long—term. mi sustainable in the long-term. all three sustainable in the long—term. all three of you, thank you for your insights. we will check back in with you at the end of the programme. now, i'd understand if you want to get away from it all, so let's go somewhere very far away. on friday, the ariane 5 rocket launched from french guyana at 09:14 local time. juice — or more properly titled, thejupiter icy moons explorer — will send a satellite to see if the moons have the conditions

needed to support life. in other words, are there or could there have been aliens there? it will take eight years for the spacecraft to get there. but professor carole mundell is right here now — a world—renowned professor of astrophysics who is the director of science at the european space agency, in charge of the project. i'm delighted to say she didn't quite have to get a rocket, but she got various modes of transport to make it back from the launch to be with us this morning. welcome. the launch was delayed by a day. how did you feel when it finally happened?— did you feel when it finally hauened? . ., ., , . . happened? there are no words. we are incredibly proud — happened? there are no words. we are incredibly proud of— happened? there are no words. we are incredibly proud of the _ happened? there are no words. we are incredibly proud of the team, _ happened? there are no words. we are incredibly proud of the team, and - incredibly proud of the team, and that delay also help to those of us who were there to understand physically and emotionally had difficult space is. we should never take space for granted. our teams are so professional. the delay was of course disappointing, but it was necessary to keep the team and the payload say. they continue to work

through the next night, doing everything they had done in the previous 24 hours, repeating that so we would have a safe and successful, possibly exquisitely successful launch. and all the stages that happened after that to get the spacecraft out there and on its journey were textbook perfect. years of work to get _ journey were textbook perfect. years of work to get there. _ journey were textbook perfect. years of work to get there. i _ journey were textbook perfect. years of work to get there. i think - journey were textbook perfect. years of work to get there. i think we can show videos that you took from your phone, watching from the balcony. it phone, watching from the balcony. it was my first rocket launch. was it how you imagined? it was overwhelming. it was very emotional, and the sound comes much later. we were 12 kilometres from the launch site, so we could see the light of the rocket flames. the rocket goes up the rocket flames. the rocket goes up through the clouds and then the sound rambles gradually and gets louder and louder. it possibly wasn't even captured on my phone. then we went inside and our teams had to continue to make sure the rest of the tasks were completed. and then how does it get there? in

your video, and then how does it get there? in yourvideo, it and then how does it get there? in your video, it disappears into the cloud, but then it takes eight years. it doesn't go a direct route, does it? it years. it doesn't go a direct route, does it? ., , �* , , does it? it doesn't. i believe it is the most complex _ does it? it doesn't. i believe it is the most complex mission - does it? it doesn't. i believe it is the most complex mission we i does it? it doesn't. i believe it is i the most complex mission we have ever launched, both in terms of its flight path and the incredible suite of instruments on the satellite. because it is heavy and we have so many instruments on there, we didn't have enough power on the rocket to lift it on a straight path. so we have a nifty technique of using the gravitational pull of the planets. we start with a gravitational swing past the earth, then between the earth and the moon, we will fly by venus and get data along the way. then we will use this gravitational slingshot effect to make the spacecraft go faster until it can be captured by the gravitational attraction ofjupiter. so captured by the gravitational attraction ofjupiter.- captured by the gravitational attraction ofjupiter. so we are using gravity — attraction ofjupiter. so we are using gravity as _ attraction ofjupiter. so we are using gravity as a _ attraction ofjupiter. so we are using gravity as a catapult. - attraction ofjupiter. so we are using gravity as a catapult. it | attraction ofjupiter. so we are| using gravity as a catapult. it is attraction ofjupiter. so we are i using gravity as a catapult. it is a slingshot- _ using gravity as a catapult. it is a slingshot. what _ using gravity as a catapult. it is a slingshot. what are _ using gravity as a catapult. it is a slingshot. what are you - using gravity as a catapult. it is a slingshot. what are you hoping l using gravity as a catapult. it is a| slingshot. what are you hoping to find along the _ slingshot. what are you hoping to find along the way? _ slingshot. what are you hoping to find along the way? i _ slingshot. what are you hoping to find along the way? i know - slingshot. what are you hoping to find along the way? i know you i slingshot. what are you hoping to | find along the way? i know you will be capturing all sorts of data for eight years. what are you happy to find? , , _,,

eight years. what are you happy to find? , , ., , find? the big purpose of this mission is — find? the big purpose of this mission is to _ find? the big purpose of this mission is to find _ find? the big purpose of this mission is to find out - find? the big purpose of this| mission is to find out whether find? the big purpose of this - mission is to find out whether the conditions on the icy moons that orbitjupiter could have the orbit jupiter could have the conditions orbitjupiter could have the conditions for life. we know there are some things on earth that produce the quality of a system for life, like water. we think these moans have icy crusts and below those, the ice has melted, so we think there are liquid and possibly salty water oceans below the ice, so we will study the geology and the conditions of the moons themselves and also of thejupiter moon system. and does that potentially mean you might find evidence of some life form, aliens? i don't want to go all sci—fi, but that is what people will be wondering. could you find evidence of life form forms now or life forms from the past? i think the test for life itself will be the next mission, we are looking if the concessions exist. ——

conditions exist. maybe future generations of young people, children in school now, inspired by this mission, might be working on missions in the future to land on and set two men and bring samples back. —— icy moon. taste and set two men and bring samples back. -- icy moon.— and set two men and bring samples back. -- icy moon. we know people are fascinated _ back. -- icy moon. we know people are fascinated by _ back. -- icy moon. we know people are fascinated by these _ back. -- icy moon. we know people are fascinated by these missions - back. -- icy moon. we know people l are fascinated by these missions and accomplishments, but if you're not, what is the practical use of all of this? living your best life getting to see a rocket launch, but what is the practical use? it costs a lot of money. i the practical use? it costs a lot of mone . ~' . the practical use? it costs a lot of mone . ~ , ,., , money. i think the bigger point is that much of— money. i think the bigger point is that much of the _ money. i think the bigger point is that much of the technology - money. i think the bigger point is that much of the technology that| money. i think the bigger point is i that much of the technology that we invent, it has to be invented obviously, when titus first came up with the idea of doing this, the technology did not exist —— scientists first came up with the idea. 83 companies have worked on this mission across the uk and europe. what we have learnt and

developing that technology is useful for all space technology, but also what we're doing is testing some of our experiments, some of the things that we would like to do to help us to understand life on earth and protect own habitat.— to understand life on earth and protect own habitat. thank you so much for coming. _ protect own habitat. thank you so much for coming. give _ protect own habitat. thank you so much for coming. give us - protect own habitat. thank you so much for coming. give us an - protect own habitat. thank you so i much for coming. give us an update on the mission. it was great to have you. welcome back to earth after the jungle in french guyana. we have been talking to pat cullen if you minutes ago, she said very clearly that the government is going to have to offer more to put an end to the nurses strike. we heard from labour's wes streeting that he is concerned about some of the nurses approach, then going ahead with a strike that has been escalated. let's now hear how the garment intends to solve this situation. the conservative party chairman greg hands is here. pat cullen was clear that the garment has to put more on the table, is that going to happen? flat

table, is that going to happen? pat cullen recommended the acceptance of the offer. we think the offer is very fair and reasonable, 4% for last year, 5% for this year, plus a cash payment as well. people do not get paid in percentages, they get paid in pounds. when you look at what that means, that is £5,100 extra, £5,100 extra for a band five nurse, which is a typical ward level nurse, which is a typical ward level nurse, plus a cash payment of £2000 into the bank account by the summer. we think it is a very fair and reasonable offer. shill we think it is a very fair and reasonable offer.— we think it is a very fair and reasonable offer. . ., . ._ , reasonable offer. all of that may be the case, reasonable offer. all of that may be the case. but _ reasonable offer. all of that may be the case, but nurses _ reasonable offer. all of that may be the case, but nurses have _ reasonable offer. all of that may be the case, but nurses have said - reasonable offer. all of that may be the case, but nurses have said no. | the case, but nurses have said no. that is the situation we are now. they have said no and they're going to strike again. the government is responsible for trying to manage the situation, so how are you going to fix it? will you put more money on the table? let fix it? will you put more money on the table? . fix it? will you put more money on the table? , . ., the table? let see what the other unions say- _ the table? let see what the other unions say. unison, _ the table? let see what the other unions say. unison, which - the table? let see what the other - unions say. unison, which represents about a third of all of the object of change of staff, accepted the very good pay offer. i have already

said £5,100. share very good pay offer. i have already said £5,100-— said £5,100. are you saying, to be clear, said £5,100. are you saying, to be clear. are — said £5,100. are you saying, to be clear. are you _ said £5,100. are you saying, to be clear, are you saying _ said £5,100. are you saying, to be clear, are you saying that - said £5,100. are you saying, to be clear, are you saying that there i clear, are you saying that there will be nothing for now and there will be nothing for now and there will be no discussion, no new offer before the nurses�* next strike? taste before the nurses' next strike? we have to before the nurses' next strike? - have to see what the other unions come back with. we have to see what the staff council meeting would say. that will be after the nurses strike. . ,. that will be after the nurses strike. . . , that will be after the nurses strike. , , . . strike. our message is very clear that this is _ strike. our message is very clear that this is a _ strike. our message is very clear that this is a very _ strike. our message is very clear that this is a very fair— strike. our message is very clear that this is a very fair and - that this is a very fair and reasonable offer. for a typical board level nurse, £5,100 extra pay, including within that £2000 that they will be paid by the summer into their account. that is a big offer. the nurses have said no to the offer, as they were entitled to do in their vote. so for our viewers this morning and patients who might be worried, the question is how are you going to stop the strikes taking place? if you refuse to budge, then the government is allowing another strike to take place that could endanger patients. lets

strike to take place that could endanger patients.— strike to take place that could endanger patients. strike to take place that could endaner atients. . . . , endanger patients. lets wait and see what the other— endanger patients. lets wait and see what the other unions _ endanger patients. lets wait and see what the other unions have - endanger patients. lets wait and see what the other unions have to - endanger patients. lets wait and see what the other unions have to say. i what the other unions have to say. there�*s a lot of other stuff out there. unison, as i mentioned, 74% voted to accept the offer, which represent a third of the objective change of staff. there�*s a lot of people accepting a very fair and reasonable offer. you people accepting a very fair and reasonable offer.— people accepting a very fair and reasonable offer. you are right, there are _ reasonable offer. you are right, there are different _ reasonable offer. you are right, there are different ballots, - reasonable offer. you are right, there are different ballots, the | reasonable offer. you are right, - there are different ballots, the gmb is yet to come back, unite is yet to come back, we are uncertain about those results, but the point is that the nurses have said no. we have been sitting here with ministers since the autumn, week after week, seeing how are you going to stop these disputes happening? how are you going to prevent workouts, how are you going to stop risk to patients happening? you�*re presiding over a situation where operations are being cancelled, patients may face further risks, and you�*re not telling you what you�*re going to do about it, you�*re saying let�*s wait and see what the other c. young are what i�*m seeing as it is a very fair and reasonable offer, ijust cannot stress enough how that is fair.

nurses, all of nhs staff, and the taxpayer, of course the other unions are balloting at the moment. the nurses rejected it narrowly, despite the recommendation of pat cullen and the recommendation of pat cullen and the rcn leadership — i think that is really important. it was a result of a negotiation. l3 really important. it was a result of a negotiation-— a negotiation. b .4 our viewers watching this _ a negotiation. b .4 our viewers watching this morning - a negotiation. b .4 our viewers watching this morning is - a negotiation. b .4 our viewers watching this morning is what. a negotiation. b .4 our viewers i watching this morning is what the government is going to do about it and what the consequences will be for the country. if you look at the consequences for the prime minister, your boss, rishi sunak, one of his main promises is that he is going to get waiting lists down. how on earth is not going to happen if you have got a series of strikes? that is not going to happen if you have got a series of strikes?— is not going to happen if you have got a series of strikes? that is why steve barclay _ got a series of strikes? that is why steve barclay today _ got a series of strikes? that is why steve barclay today has _ got a series of strikes? that is why steve barclay today has written - got a series of strikes? that is why steve barclay today has written to | steve barclay today has written to the rcn, outlining...— the rcn, outlining... saying very little is what _ the rcn, outlining... saying very little is what pat _ the rcn, outlining... saying very little is what pat cullen _ the rcn, outlining... saying very little is what pat cullen said. - the rcn, outlining... saying very little is what pat cullen said. noti little is what pat cullen said. not agreeing to talks. i little is what pat cullen said. not agreeing to talks.— little is what pat cullen said. not agreeing to talks. i have read the letter. steve's _ agreeing to talks. i have read the letter. steve's door _ agreeing to talks. i have read the letter. steve's door is _ agreeing to talks. i have read the letter. steve's door is always - agreeing to talks. i have read the l letter. steve's door is always open. letter. steve�*s door is always open. we want to see what the other unions

have to say, but the other people balloting have to say about this very good offer. i stress again, £5,100 for a band five nurse, £2000 into their account by the summer. that is a very good offer. what into their account by the summer. that is a very good offer. what has ha--ened that is a very good offer. what has happened to _ that is a very good offer. what has happened to waiting _ that is a very good offer. what has happened to waiting lists - that is a very good offer. what has happened to waiting lists since - happened to waiting lists since rishi sunak made that pledge in january? rishi sunak made that pledge in janua ? , ., _ rishi sunak made that pledge in janua ? ,., rishi sunak made that pledge in janua ? , , ~ rishi sunak made that pledge in janua ? ,., , ,, ., january? obviously be strike action has not helped. _ january? obviously be strike action has not helped. we _ january? obviously be strike action has not helped. we know- january? obviously be strike action has not helped. we know that - january? obviously be strike action has not helped. we know that we | january? obviously be strike action i has not helped. we know that we are dealing with a waiting list problem as a result of the pandemic, which inevitably lead to big delays in the nhs. we are getting to grips with that, the strikes have not helped, but nonetheless there is a real focus that steve barclay, the prime minister personally involved here, making sure that we do what we can to bring down those waiting lists. the strikes might not make that much difference because the waiting list have got longer. 7.2 million people on a waiting list now in february. that is the highest level that it has ever been. how on earth are you going to get to grips with that as there is a dispute with an artist, a dispute with the junior doctors? do you not have to budge on the strikes

if you�*re going to address that very real problem? taste if you're going to address that very real problem?— if you're going to address that very real roblem? ~ . . , , real problem? we have made this very ood offer real problem? we have made this very good offer to — real problem? we have made this very good offer to all— real problem? we have made this very good offer to all of _ real problem? we have made this very good offer to all of the _ real problem? we have made this very good offer to all of the unions, - real problem? we have made this very good offer to all of the unions, to - good offer to all of the unions, to all of the six unions involved. some are still balloting at the moment. let�*s wait and hear their results. it is a great offer. the let's wait and hear their results. it is a great offer.— it is a great offer. the nurses do not think it is a great offer. the nurses do rrot think so- _ it is a great offer. the nurses do not think so. they _ it is a great offer. the nurses do not think so. they voted - it is a great offer. the nurses do | not think so. they voted narrowly a i ainst. not think so. they voted narrowly against- they _ not think so. they voted narrowly against. they voted _ not think so. they voted narrowly against. they voted against - not think so. they voted narrowly against. they voted against it, i not think so. they voted narrowly against. they voted against it, as was their democratic _ against. they voted against it, as was their democratic right - against. they voted against it, as was their democratic right to i against. they voted against it, as was their democratic right to do | against. they voted against it, as i was their democratic right to do so. you can be frustrated with it, it is legitimate to say whatever you want about the result, but they voted no. this is about the consequences. so again i am asking you, a record number of people on waiting lists, 7.2 million, how do you think you�*re going to fix that if industrial disputes are going on in the health service? orare disputes are going on in the health service? or are you going to give up on that pledge? taste service? or are you going to give up on that pledge?— on that pledge? we are definitely not aaivin on that pledge? we are definitely rrot giving op- _ on that pledge? we are definitely rrot giving up we _ on that pledge? we are definitely not giving up. we think _ on that pledge? we are definitely not giving up. we think it - on that pledge? we are definitely not giving up. we think it is i not giving up. we think it is unreasonable to take the strike action, particularly at a time when the other unions are balloting, went unison, which represent a third of all staff, accepted it by 74%. that

is a big majority in favour of this very fair and reasonable offer. but this is about the prime minister's this is about the prime minister�*s promised to the public. let�*s look another of the pledges he made, he promised to have inflation this year. since then, inflation went up. nobody said it is going to be easy to tame inflation. let�*s not forget why inflation is where it is, it is driven principally by higher energy prices, higher input prices driven by vladimir putin�*s invasion. let�*s not forget why we have a high inflation. ~ . ~ inflation. the prime minister knew all of that when _ inflation. the prime minister knew all of that when he _ inflation. the prime minister knew all of that when he made - inflation. the prime minister knew all of that when he made the i all of that when he made the promise. all of that when he made the romise. ~ ., . all of that when he made the romise. ~ . , ., ,, , promise. we are still working very hard to deliver _ promise. we are still working very hard to deliver all _ promise. we are still working very hard to deliver all of _ promise. we are still working very hard to deliver all of the _ promise. we are still working very hard to deliver all of the five i hard to deliver all of the five priorities will stop having inflation, growing the economy —— halving inflation. january grew by 0.3%, the best growth in the g7 in 2021 and 2022. overall under this

conservative government, a record to be proud of. conservative government, a record to be proud of-— be proud of. zero growth, are you roud of be proud of. zero growth, are you proud of that? — be proud of. zero growth, are you proud of that? that _ be proud of. zero growth, are you proud of that? that is _ be proud of. zero growth, are you proud of that? that is a _ be proud of. zero growth, are you proud of that? that is a monthly i proud of that? that is a monthly fiure. if proud of that? that is a monthly figure- if you — proud of that? that is a monthly figure. if you look _ proud of that? that is a monthly figure. if you look at _ proud of that? that is a monthly figure. if you look at the - proud of that? that is a monthly| figure. if you look at the previous month, it was 0.3%. we would like to see much stronger growth. that is why in the budget we have introduced measures to bring people back into the workforce, to make sure that doctors are not retiring early, which was one of the problems that was giving rise to some of the waiting list problems. fixing some of those problems in the budget on the 15th of march and driving things forward. of course we want to see growth higher than that. but overall, regrowth record has not been bad. the highest, strongest in the g7 in 2021 and 2022. will been bad. the highest, strongest in the g7 in 2021 and 2022.— the g7 in 2021 and 2022. will talk to stephanie — the g7 in 2021 and 2022. will talk to stephanie flanders _ the g7 in 2021 and 2022. will talk to stephanie flanders about i the g7 in 2021 and 2022. will talk to stephanie flanders about that l the g7 in 2021 and 2022. will talk i to stephanie flanders about that in a couple of minutes. i want to ask about any other story that is around today, the government saying it would not increase the number of smart motorways. you will get rid of some of them. but are you saying

today that all smart motorways will disappear? there have been due to concerns about safety, not least by a bbc investigation on panorama a couple of years ago. why are you taking this action now and will you completely get rid of them all? taste completely get rid of them all? we have completely get rid of them all? - have said we will not approve any new smart motorways. clearly as a result of public concern and safety concern. we are going to keep a close eye on the situation with the existing smart motorways. at the moment, the announcement is purely about no new smart motorways. greg hands, thank you for your time. right, it�*s coming up to ten o�*clock. we began this morning asking if it was possible to avoid a summer of strikes, but pat cullen from the royal college of nursing told us we could see strikes in the nhs right up until the end of the year. we have strike action for the end of this month, beginning of may, and then we will move immediately to ballot our members. if that ballot is successful, it will mean further strike action

right up until christmas. now, the person that can stop that, the people who can stop that is steve barclay and the ministers, and indeed the prime minister. saffron cordery, stephanie flanders and mark baillie, time for a last word. saffron, briefly, from what you heard from greg hands, do you think there is a solution to stop the strike? , ., ., ., ~' there is a solution to stop the strike? , ., ~' there is a solution to stop the strike? , ., ,, . strike? does not look like it at the moment, strike? does not look like it at the moment. but _ strike? does not look like it at the moment. but i _ strike? does not look like it at the moment, but i think _ strike? does not look like it at the moment, but i think it _ strike? does not look like it at the moment, but i think it is - strike? does not look like it at the l moment, but i think it is absolutely critical that the government looks again and that the rcn and the unions look again, come round the table. we are really worried about the impact on an ongoing basis of these strikes. we know they are not sustainable. we have really got to make sure that we actually find a solution to them. that is in the hands of the unions and it is in the hands of the unions and it is in the hands of the negotiation, let�*s handle it as such. hands of the negotiation, let's handle it as such.— hands of the negotiation, let's handle it as such. stephanie, on the econom , handle it as such. stephanie, on the economy. we _ handle it as such. stephanie, on the economy, we were _ handle it as such. stephanie, on the economy, we were just _ handle it as such. stephanie, on the economy, we were just with - handle it as such. stephanie, on the economy, we were just with greg i economy, we were just with greg hands talking about the growth, he will shy to say the uk is doing

pretty well, mark his homework. he did not talk about the forecast for this year— did not talk about the forecast for this year and _ did not talk about the forecast for this year and next _ did not talk about the forecast for this year and next year, _ did not talk about the forecast for this year and next year, which i did not talk about the forecast forj this year and next year, which are the worst— this year and next year, which are the worst in— this year and next year, which are the worst in the _ this year and next year, which are the worst in the 620. _ this year and next year, which are the worst in the 620. year- this year and next year, which are the worst in the 620. year to- this year and next year, which are i the worst in the 620. year to year, you get— the worst in the 620. year to year, you get catch — the worst in the 620. year to year, you get catch up _ the worst in the 620. year to year, you get catch up growth, _ the worst in the 620. year to year, you get catch up growth, things- the worst in the 620. year to year, i you get catch up growth, things move around _ you get catch up growth, things move around we _ you get catch up growth, things move around we do— you get catch up growth, things move around. we do know— you get catch up growth, things move around. we do know that— you get catch up growth, things move around. we do know that we - you get catch up growth, things move around. we do know that we were i you get catch up growth, things move| around. we do know that we were way behind, _ around. we do know that we were way behind, years— around. we do know that we were way behind, years behind _ around. we do know that we were way behind, years behind the _ around. we do know that we were way behind, years behind the us _ around. we do know that we were way behind, years behind the us and - around. we do know that we were way behind, years behind the us and a i behind, years behind the us and a lon- behind, years behind the us and a long time — behind, years behind the us and a long time by— behind, years behind the us and a long time by the _ behind, years behind the us and a long time by the eurozone - behind, years behind the us and a long time by the eurozone and i long time by the eurozone and catching — long time by the eurozone and catching up _ long time by the eurozone and catching up to _ long time by the eurozone and catching up to where - long time by the eurozone and catching up to where we - long time by the eurozone and catching up to where we were i long time by the eurozone and - catching up to where we were before the pandemic — catching up to where we were before the pandemic. that— catching up to where we were before the pandemic. that is— catching up to where we were before the pandemic. that is something i catching up to where we were before| the pandemic. that is something you cannot— the pandemic. that is something you cannot get— the pandemic. that is something you cannot get away— the pandemic. that is something you cannot get away from. _ the pandemic. that is something you cannot get away from. when - the pandemic. that is something you cannot get away from. when you i the pandemic. that is something you| cannot get away from. when you look forward _ cannot get away from. when you look forward for _ cannot get away from. when you look forward for the — cannot get away from. when you look forward for the next _ cannot get away from. when you look forward for the next two _ cannot get away from. when you look forward for the next two years, - cannot get away from. when you look forward for the next two years, it i forward for the next two years, it is the _ forward for the next two years, it is the case — forward for the next two years, it is the case that _ forward for the next two years, it is the case that we _ forward for the next two years, it is the case that we have - forward for the next two years, it is the case that we have the - forward for the next two years, it i is the case that we have the slowest growth _ is the case that we have the slowest growth of _ is the case that we have the slowest growth of all — is the case that we have the slowest growth of all those _ is the case that we have the slowest growth of all those 20 _ is the case that we have the slowest growth of all those 20 economies. l growth of all those 20 economies. mark, _ growth of all those 20 economies. mark, are — growth of all those 20 economies. mark, are you _ growth of all those 20 economies. mark, are you optimistic— growth of all those 20 economies. mark, are you optimistic or- mark, are you optimistic or pessimistic? i mark, are you optimistic or pessimistic?— mark, are you optimistic or pessimistic? i am optimistic inflation will _ pessimistic? i am optimistic inflation will pass, - pessimistic? i am optimistic inflation will pass, but - pessimistic? i am optimistic inflation will pass, but long | pessimistic? i am optimistic - inflation will pass, but long term i think— inflation will pass, but long term i think there's a huge opportunity for us as— think there's a huge opportunity for us as a _ think there's a huge opportunity for us as a society with the impact of digitat— us as a society with the impact of digitat and — us as a society with the impact of digital and skills sharing.1.5% of our workforce can take advantage of that _ our workforce can take advantage of that i_ our workforce can take advantage of that ithink— our workforce can take advantage of that. i think we are massively under investing _ that. i think we are massively under investinu. ., . . investing. you almost had something cheerful at the _ investing. you almost had something cheerful at the end! _ investing. you almost had something cheerful at the end! we _ investing. you almost had something cheerful at the end! we have - investing. you almost had something cheerful at the end! we have quite i investing. you almost had something cheerful at the end! we have quite a | cheerful at the end! we have quite a lot of difficult conversations in the studio this morning. thank you for giving us your insights this

morning. what can we conclude? well, when it comes to the nurses walk—outs, it's hard to see how they can be avoided right now. this morning, the nurses union has rejected the government's request to pause strikes. that's bad for politicians but, more improtantly, likely to hit patients, the wider public too. what was a winter of wide industrial discontent looks set to be a summer of strikes. all politicians, probably all of us, would like to think we're on the way to better health care for all, but while we're still arguing about how to pay the nurses and doctors who look after us, or how to make sure there are enough of them willing to do the job, the bigger questions of who and how we're cared for might be beyond reach, let alone the prime minister's ambition to cut waiting lists. thank you for your company. i'll be back next week as we edge ever closer to those

live from london, this is bbc news. the un secretary—general calls for an immediate ceasefire in sudan after at least 56 people are killed in clashes between rival military factions. the chief minister of the indian state of uttar pradesh appeals for calm after a former politician convicted of kidnapping is shot dead live on tv along with his brother. the leader of the nurses' union says they're prepared to continue strikes in england right up to christmas, unless the government puts more money on the table for a pay deal. the building of all new smart motorways in england is being cancelled over safety concerns and costs — this includes 11 already on pause and three set for construction. a chinese rocket launching a weather satellite briefly forces planes