this is bbc news. we left the headlines and all the news stories as newsday continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. west africa's sahel region has long faced enormous challenges, poor governance, extreme poverty and environmental degradation, to name but three. but it also has a proud tradition of giving cultural riches to the world and my guest today is baaba maal,

a world—renowned musician whose roots lie in northern senegal. his voice, guitar and rhythms have won him worldwide acclaim over five decades. he sometimes labelled the voice of the sahel. but how much influence can that voice yield? baaba maal, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. well, it's great to have you back in this hardtalk studio. now, you have a new album out,

being — your first for several years — and i was interested to see the other day you describe yourself these days as an elder. does it mean your music is sort of changing as you gain more and more experience and wisdom? it's not changing at all. it's just coming to this natural way of playing music. maybe it's a kind of reflecting of the first way i was writing songs, where i was much more relaxed, not under pressure, not in a hurry, just taking a lot of pleasure of being into a studio, sitting in the middle of a garden and picking up my guitar and playing music, and songs comes naturally and i think this is what i was looking for in this album. you're a star of world music and you tour the world playing your music, but would you say that your music is still very much rooted in podor, your home town in northern senegal and the fishing community that

you came from and the very sort of local place that your music was founded in? yeah, it has its own place, my region into my music, but notjust the north of senegal where i come from. i think i can say from west africa first and then, open to the world because i think i am global citizen of the world and i did take a lot of influences by travelling, listening to all these kinds of music and meeting some other musicians, trying to understand where is this meeting point between what i have from my african cultural background and what they are giving to me. how difficult is it to do the two things that you talk about a lot?

that one is honour tradition — you talk a lot about honouring your traditions. but you also, from the late �*70s and �*80s, were very keen to innovate. you were using electronic music, you were collaborating with cutting—edge musicians far from your home in northern senegal, so how difficult is it to do both at once? i can confirm that it's not easy to respect these two sides. the first one is a promise to my dad to say i will write songs that would get rooted to all of the traditional or the histories of my communities, where we come from, where we are heading and also, the responsibility of everyone of us in these communities because you can't be really, really very famous, very rich but at the same time, you are one member of these communities and you have to play your role. but as a second place, i am someone who loves to travel, who is free. i am a nomadic person. even in my music, i want

to explore different fields of the music. and to combine the two, i confess, is not easy but you just have to try to find the crossing point between the two. what you just said is very interesting. do you think being very successful and — to put it bluntly — quite rich and collaborating with famous people in the western music world like peter gabriel and mumford and sons and all the others you have worked with, does it, in some senses, make it more difficult to remain rooted? yeah, it can make it very much difficult but you have to convince also these people, just to — not you coming to them or going to them, but them coming also to you. for example, i did convince mumford and sons that to come to see my festival, the blues of the river, and they were thrilled about all of the elements that cannot even help them to have new inspiration or musicians that they can sit down

with and play music together. because in this part of africa, the music has still a lot of things to share with all these people who are trying to find new elements, new things to feel on their skin or on their bone when they want to write songs. but at the same time, i always say that my goal is to take this african music and to show it to the rest of the world, that that is also their music, and this music also can bring something to learn from it, something to share in their life and to find solutions of their problems. well, i'm delighted, baaba, that you mentioned the blues of the river festival, which is sort of created. it takes place in podor, your home town in northern senegal, which is quite remote but... very remote. ..many people want to be there every year. now, in your latest album being, you have a track freak out which actually

includes some wonderful images of you being at the blues of the river festival in podor — i believe it is from a couple of years ago. what we'd like to do is have everybody, have a listen, have a look at what it means for baaba maal to return to his own community. okay. let's have a look at this. freak out by baaba maal plays. wonderful images there, baaba, which i think get to the heart of what we're talking about — that marriage of tradition and modernity and the musicalfusions as well. what really strikes me is the excitement of young people. does your music today still excite the young people of your home?

it does, and i'm very surprised. but at the same time, i think these people, the young ones, are really, really interested about the journey that i have been taking since a long time, trying to represent them in the rest of the world and bringing back something that can make the platform for them to discuss with me, to talk amongst themselves, to see the experiences and to know exactly what they want to do, what they have to do and their responsibility. if i may, there is a big difference growing up in podor today from when you grew up there because then, your entertainment was the local music, the local cultural traditions. today, i dare say the young

people in your hometown, they have access through their phone and through the internet to cultures from all over the world, the cutting—edge music from south africa, from the united states, from wherever they want to hear it, and ijust wonder, because you reflect a lot on the meeting of social media and the internet. .. yeah. ..whether it's changing the sort of cultural context for young african kids? in this album, i'm saying that the social media is really a good thing for africa. it's a good thing? a very good thing in some points, a very good thing for africa. why? because it gives the opportunity to people who never had voices or never get the chance to be connected to the rest of the world. and also, to be connected to their people who went away, like immigrants. many of these young people just, they went to spain, for example, through boats because the desert, but by the time they are arriving on the other side of the planet, they are still connected to their families, to their communities. are they? oh, yeah. do they maintain those those connections or do they,

in the end, find those connections are cut? there's no reason to cut. it's there. it's with the social media. every night when they finish work, they come and they get connected via whatsapp and other thing and try to see what's going in their communities. but the more sceptical part of me would think, you know, because — let us face it and we'ill talk more about it later — that where you are from, the sahel region, and the north of senegal, mauritania next door, these are places of real poverty where job opportunities are limited and where many young people on their phones, smartphones, are seeing aspirational lifestyles, economic opportunities in different parts of the world. as you've just said, many of them then choose to act with their feet and they migrate and they try to find opportunity and wealth far, far away from their homeland. isn't the danger that unlike you, who always returns home, they will not return home?

yes, it's a danger but at the same time, they are connected. i can tell you that there's kind of many groups of whatsapps are representing what used to happen in the villages before. families, friends, people who live in the same neighbourhood, they come into the middle of the village every night and they exchange ideas, news. and now, with the groups of whatsapp with family groups orfriendship groups or community groups make them be able to discuss about the destiny of their communities. even if it's not easy for them to come back in the way they want to come back but they are very, very concerned about what's happening there, you know? these are big families. but at the same time, i'm saying into the song, that we should be really careful about what we're gonna put in the internet because the way that our society was organised, everyone knows his place in the family, in the community. and if you have things to say,

you how to do, to say it in a very respectable way to the elders, to your parents, your dad, your mum, your uncles. but sometimes, people go away off and put things that should not be shared with the rest of the world. it cuts the harmony that exists in these african families, organisations, and that's the danger of the internet. we should use it in a positive way but we should be aware that it can sometimes destroy something that was established there. i'm sure you know better than i that actually, africa is the place where regimes attempt to control and curb social media more than any other continent on earth... yes, i know that. ..and you live in senegal. your president macky sall, has described social media as a cancer which he is determined to regulate. do you think your voice will make a difference in trying to persuade those who govern senegal not to repress and control the intellect? i think the way we need to rise up our voices to say this

is very good for africa, for the world, to get people to be connected. crosstalk. dictatorships and authoritarians around the world, including in your region, they do not like a vehicle of information supply which they cannot control. yeah, you know, it's notjust the vehicle of information from the internet, it's even the citizens who just rise up their voice about what is wrong and what's right. i think many of governments in the world, especially in africa, are a little bit afraid about when they get told what to do and what not to do, but this has to change because everyone is concerned about the future of africa. everyone wants to bring his kind of help to actually what we want to achieve. and i was saying in one of my interviews that all the leaders — political, religious and traditional

leaders — should listen more to the young people because they are the future. they are the ones who know what kind of future they want. and they have some instruments like the internet to say what they want to say, you know? it's a way to listen to them. i want to quote you now words that i read in a music magazine profile of you where the reporter — a guy called kevin perry — he followed you back home as you were on a tour of villages in your home region in senegal, and he said this. he said, "my impression of baaba is that, especially "in the north of senegal, they see him as a prophet "or something pretty much like that. "it is crazy," said mr perry, "crazy to see how much power "baaba maal has but he uses it responsibly. "more than a pop star, he is a statesman and

"ambassador for the fulani people. " do you feel that immense sort of reach, influence, power that you have over and within your people? i don't feel it like power. ijust — i'm just happy to know that the connection between me and my community, between me and the fulani people, for example, is notjust through the music — it's also to be involved since long time into what we call a process to arrive to development — especially sustainable living and all of that. you've become quite an advocate. i mean, you've made a point over the last 20 years of immersing yourself in education, particularly of women and girls. you talk a lot about sustainable development, sustainable technologies. you even set up your own foundation, the nann—k

foundation, which is supposed to be working on finding new techniques in farming and fishing to work with climate change to ensure that people can still make a livelihood. and to fight desertification. i don't want to rain on your parade, baaba, but yourfoundation has been going on for six or seven years, but it doesn't mean to be making much difference. you yourself said of the sahel, "it is on its knees, brought low by conflict, hunger and disease." so despite your very best efforts and all your advocacy and activism, i'm not sure that you believe the sahel is going in the right direction. sahel is not going in the right direction. and everyone knows that. and i'm ready to launch maybe another album between now and next year if some young musicians from all over the sahel, just to rise up our voices again to say — "hey, it's not over, all the suffering on the sahel." because there is no education.

there's a lot of violence. there's a lot of people who really are going away from their home town. and that's not something that should happen on this region. this beautiful region of the sahel that represents a lot, thousands of years for africa, to emancipate. but now it's suffering. we need to rise up again all our voices. in all honesty, does it make much difference? you are appointed, i think right now it's about to be announced you're about to be appointed a new un goodwill ambassador, committing to tackling desertification and environmental degradation, which is a huge issue in northern senegal, across the sahel region — one of the worst—affected places by climate change already. does being a un goodwill ambassador make any difference? it will make a difference. it will, because with nann—k —

i'm just operating now in my country, senegal — i have a special love of senegal, and maybe mauritania, where we have many sections of nann—k. but being a goodwill ambassador will help open many more doors when i work in niger or some other country, to count on different musicians who are really ready. i think most of these musicians will come from this part of africa. really want to make a change. we really want to participate, to bring back peace. because we all know that, without peace, we can't talk about development. we can't talk about sustainable living. africa being called the future — to make it a reality. and we have to to do something. well, i'm going to stop you there.

because you just talked about making a better future for africa. and one thing — one collaboration that intrigues me that you've been involved in in recent years is working on the soundtrack, the music, for the black panther movie series — black panther, of course, the first, and wakanda forever, the second. and people talk about it as a sort of vision of afro—futurism — this kingdom in africa which is the most advanced in technology, sort of hidden away from the world but which is, in its own way, building a new future for africa. let's just have a listen and a look at some images with your sounds.

and then i want to talk to you about it. that soundtrack is from the beginning of wakanda forever. it's actually a funeral scene in this kingdom. you play a bit part, as well as writing the soundtrack and singing. laughs. there you are. yeah. there you are. uh-huh. i just wonder what message this really has for africa. because this is fantasy. in the end, this is a sort of magical kingdom with the greatest sort of technological advances. but if i'm a young african watching this black panther series today, do i see this as a sort of realistic, optimistic vision that could be my future? or do i see it as simply fantasy that bears no relation to the life i live today? i can say this is what we think will be africa in the future. really? yeah.

because i can see in the movie all the respect to the clothes, the jewellery, the tattoos, the things which mean — and the story itself, from the first black panther to this one, where we're celebrating chadwick, we have many, many stories like that. and those storytellers can bring a lot of them on the table for cinema in africa just to explore it. but at the same time, what's really, really good — and that's the aspiration of the young people in africa — is the access to technology. and to resolve their problem through technology. everyone is fascinated by technology. but technology, in itself, can't solve africa's problems. no. from the very beginning of this interview, i've alluded to governance issues in africa. yeah. i've got to ask you this question before we end. 11 years ago, i had you in the hardtalk studio. we spoke then about whether you would translate the influence you have in your region, the sahel, and across africa — whether you would one day

translate it into politics in your home country, senegal. at that time, you said to me, "maybe one day. it's not my decision yet, but i'm always going to use my voice to tell the truth and help my people move forward." what about now? is now the time? i'm still in that way. maybe it can change, i can twist it a little bit to what you are talking about and to be much more involved. you have a home country, senegal, ruled by a president who is repressing his people. there are legal challenges against the main opposition leader which may mean he may never be able to run against the current president. i don't know what's going to happen in the next months to come. are you prepared to use your voice in an overt political way, to speak out against what's happening in senegal today? i will, when it gets clear in my mind what everyone�*s attempting to do, i will say my opinion.

i have an opinion on how i want this country to be ruled and what's the voice that people can apply to this country to be ruled. we're almost out of time. but do you think you could mix music and politics in that way? could you really enter politics and still reach your fan base as a musician? i think it's a big choice to take. mmm. i think i'm much more comfortable where i am right now, and trying to be more involved about saying much better, again, the truth to the leaders of what we think they should do. i have my opinion, and. you would not seek leadership yourself? no, not yet. we're back to "not yet".

laughs. we're almost out of time, baaba. we did want to end — because i think it would be a very fitting ending — with you picking up your guitar and playing us out with a tune that you have just written. so if you wouldn't mind, given that you've explained just how much the music still matters to you in your life and your campaigning work, let's play out on a tune. the tune is lekke. it means "please. " let's plant trees to tackle desertification.

hello there. we've started this week off on a pretty warm note. in fact, many parts of the uk saw the warmest day of the year so far on monday. however, over the next few days, those temperatures will be coming down as we pick up a chilly easterly breeze. and there could even be a bit of rain in places by the end of the week. now, high pressure dominates the scene over the next few days, sitting across scandinavia bringing this easterly breeze. but more icy bars on the chart mean that easterly wind picks up and we'll start to see these weather fronts rolling in off the near continent, bringing outbreaks of rain, particularly for england and wales, whereas further north it should tend to stay largely dry. now for tuesday morning we'll start off with a bit of low cloud mist, but that should tend to burn away. many places will see a sunny day, but we'll see thicker cloud for southern and southeastern areas. and the breeze will be stronger, noticeably cooler, i think, across the board, but certainly down north sea coast. that's because the sea temperatures

are pretty low at this time of year, seven or eight degrees. so it will feel cool immediately on the north sea coast, head further inland. and again, we're close to the mid—teens, some of the highest temperatures for western scotland, up to the high teens there. so as we move out of tuesday, day through the night, we'll start to see further low clouds and mist the rolling in off the north sea once again, especially for england and wales, eastern scotland, clearer skies further west. so it's here where we could see temperatures dip close to freezing to three degrees. generally for most, we're between four and seven celsius. a little change as we head into wednesday. again, we've got high pressure dominating the scene. it's going to be another windy day, strong easterly winds, so feeling cool again along the north sea coast and we'll see thicker cloud at times rolling in across england and wales. clusters of showers affecting the south of england, certainly the south west,

perhaps in towards south wales. but most places will be dry, get a chilly feel to things towards the east, further west where around the low to mid—teens celsius. and then as we move throughout thursday into friday, we start to see more weather fronts pushing in some of these weather fronts, bringing more prolonged rain at times to england and wales on friday. and again, it's going to be quite cool with a strong east the breeze so temperatures dipping away as we head towards the end of the week into the weekend. and there's a greater chance of many of us, certainly england and wales, seeing some wetter weather.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines... two men are arrested in new york for allegedly operating a chinese "secret police" station. life under military rule — we have a special report from inside myanmar. one of president putin's most prominent critics is jailed for 25 years. almost 200 thousand hospital appointments cancelled — the impact of last week's strike byjunior doctors in england.