this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour straight up this programme. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. they say a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. and context there are growing concerns in both the european union and nato that one member state, hungary, is undermining their collect of

cohesion. hungary is a consistent outlier on many issues from supporting ukraine with weapons and sanctions to welcoming sweden into nato. my guest is hungary's foreign minister peter szijjarto. will hungary pay a price for its defiance? foreign minister peter szijjarto in budapest, welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much for _ welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much for the _ welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much for the invitation - so much for the invitation again, i am so much for the invitation again, iam happy so much for the invitation again, i am happy to and. it is again, i am happy to and. it is again, i am happy to and. it is a pleasure _ again, i am happy to and. it is a pleasure to _ again, i am happy to and. it is a pleasure to have _ again, i am happy to and. it is a pleasure to have you - again, i am happy to and. it is a pleasure to have you back and do szijjarto. let me start with simple questions to be a

terrible war has been raging in ukraine for more than a year as a result of the russian military invasion. who do you in hungary, want to see when that more?— in hungary, want to see when that more? ~ . , ., ., that more? we want this war are to be finished, _ that more? we want this war are to be finished, to _ that more? we want this war are to be finished, to be _ that more? we want this war are to be finished, to be stopped - to be finished, to be stopped as soon as possible because this war takes place in our neighbourhood and you can imagine that if there is a war in your neighbourhood the impacts of the war are being immediate and severe, unfortunately, and please do not forget that when you talk to me, you talk to a representative of a nation, members of which are dying in this war. given the fact that there is a significant hungary and community living in the western part of ukraine, members of which are ukrainian citizens, they are mobilised to the ukrainian army, many of them are being deployed to the front lines and many of them unfortunately do die. so what we would like to see is a

immediate ceasefire to be established, we want peace talks to take place and we want a peace agreement to be reached, finally, which would stop killing innocent people. so you cannot say to me on international television that you want ukraine to win that war? i you want ukraine to win that war? ., �* ~' you want ukraine to win that war? ., �* ~ ., , war? i don't think that this war? i don't think that this war will have _ war? i don't think that this war will have winners. - war? i don't think that this i war will have winners. this war? i don't think that this - war will have winners. this war only does have losers because people are dying in this war, so speaking about a winner in this context, i'm afraid does not make sense.— this context, i'm afraid does not make sense. your prime minister _ not make sense. your prime minister viktor_ not make sense. your prime minister viktor orban - not make sense. your prime minister viktor orban last i not make sense. your prime l minister viktor orban last year said we shouldn't be on russia's side or on ukraine's side, we should be between the two. that strikes me as very peculiar. you are a member state of nato, you are in the eu, both of those organisations have very clear positions. also, as an individual nation, voted at the un general

assembly tojoin a voted at the un general assembly to join a declaration demanding a full russian withdrawal from all ukrainian territory in accordance with international law. why is it so difficult for you to say that you want ukraine to push russian forces out of the country?— russian forces out of the count ? ., ., , country? look, our position is absolutely _ country? look, our position is absolutely clear _ country? look, our position is absolutely clear since - country? look, our position is absolutely clear since the - country? look, our position is| absolutely clear since the very beginning of this war. we condemn the war in the strongest possible ways. we stand up for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of ukraine without any kind of doubt, with that territorial integrity and sovereignty of all countries including ukraine, must be respected. so we want to know us, the number one priority is to save lives of the people and in order to save lives of the people, this war must be stopped because of the war is not being stopped,

if it is being escalated and prolonged, means that there are more and more people dying. but with respect, this idea, if i'm a (crosstalk) i with respect, this idea, if i'm a (crosstalk)— with respect, this idea, if i'm a (crosstalk) i don't think it makes sense _ a (crosstalk) i don't think it makes sense to _ a (crosstalk) i don't think it makes sense to speak- a (crosstalk) i don't think it makes sense to speak about i a (crosstalk) | don't think it - makes sense to speak about what is because there are already losers of this war. viktor orban's view of what a ceasefire means doesn't seem to fit with the fact. for example, last summer he said the west must stop supplying weapons to ukraine because the more nato gives to the ukrainians, the more russia will push the frontline forward. that was plainly wrong, because after he spoke, nato increased its weapons supplies and what we saw was that ukraine successfully pushed russian forces back from swathes of territory in kharkiv and kherson regions. it is quite clear that ukraine with more weapons from the west can

succeed in pushing russian forces back. what is your problem with that?- forces back. what is your problem with that? first of all, problem with that? first of all. thanks _ problem with that? first of all, thanks god _ problem with that? first of all, thanks god nato - problem with that? first of all, thanks god nato does| problem with that? first of i all, thanks god nato does not deliver weapons to this conflict, it would be very bad of nato took part in this conflict because if nato becomes a direct party to this conflict, it would mean for world war the next day. so thanks god the decision we have made in nato that nato is not a party to the conflict is still valid, so there are member states who are supplying ukraine with weapon and other military equipment. we do not do so. we have been carrying out the largest humanitarian operation of the history of hours but we do not deliver weapons because our position is very clear, peace is much better than the war and we do not see that the weapon deliveries could stop the war. what we think would stop the war is ceasefire and peace

talks, and you know, if there are peace talks and a peace agreement is being made, it does not necessarily mean that the current status quo as being frozen. we remember our own history, unfortunately, that when a peace deal was made, then the borders agreed in these peace talks were totally different compared to the front lines. so that's why we urge for peace talks to take place with all the relevant parties at the table and a peace agreement to be made finally in order to close this conflict because we are suffering too much, ukrainian people are suffering too much as well. you know that _ suffering too much as well. you know that president _ suffering too much as well. you know that president zelensky and ukrainians watching this interview will be disgusted by what you say, they will see it amply as you act as an apologist for the kremlin. you want a ceasefire which leaves russian forces in control of at least one, 20% of rainier territory?— least one, 20% of rainier territory? least one, 20% of rainier territo ? �* , ., territory? but why do you say that? why — territory? but why do you say that? why do _ territory? but why do you say that? why do you _ territory? but why do you say that? why do you say - territory? but why do you say that? why do you say that? l territory? but why do you say i that? why do you say that? i've

said exactly that if there are peace talks, it means that the current frontlines do not equal the agreement.— current frontlines do not equal the agreement. you may know a different vladimir— the agreement. you may know a different vladimir putin - the agreement. you may know a different vladimir putin from - different vladimir putin from the one that i have seen operating in recent years. you serious believe, do you, that vladimir putin is going to see ukraine, halt its military operations and then voluntarily give up land which he has already annexed to the russian federation? you are living in fantasyland, mr szijjarto. i understand that we are in a disagreement there, but still, i do believe that there is no military solution to this conflict. we do not think that there would be any military solution to this conflict. we have two save lives and we have two make sure that the principle of respect to territorial integrity and sovereignty is being respected. let's talk about a different

aspect of the ukraine russia war, that is sanctions, economic strategy and you in hungary and your determination to deepen your economic relationship based on energy with russia at a time when everybody else in europe is determined to wean themselves off reliance on russian energy. why are you doing that?- off reliance on russian energy. why are you doing that? well, i ho -e we why are you doing that? well, i hope we do _ why are you doing that? well, i hope we do agree _ why are you doing that? well, i hope we do agree that - why are you doing that? well, i hope we do agree that the - hope we do agree that the energy supply is a hope we do agree that the energy supply is a physical question, and it is neither ideological nor political. because the ideology of political statement, because the ideology of politicalstatement, it because the ideology of political statement, it is impossible to supply your economy with gas or oil or it is impossible to heat your houses or your flat. is impossible to heat your houses or yourflat. so is impossible to heat your houses or your flat. so as long as the infrastructural network makes us to co—operate with the russians on ensuring the safe supply of our country with

energy, we have co—operate with them and we will co—opt it with them. them and we will co-opt it with them. ~ , ., . them. well, it is a choice, foreign — them. well, it is a choice, foreign minister. - them. well, it is a choice, foreign minister. it - them. well, it is a choice, foreign minister. it is - them. well, it is a choice, foreign minister. it is an l foreign minister. it is an interesting choice because you can look at many other european countries whether it be the baltic states, germany, poland or finland, a whole host of european states have weaned themselves pretty much completely off what used to be a very great reliance on russian you've gone in the opposite direction. just a few days you were in moscow signing new deals on gas, oil and nuclear power which simply deepens your reliance on russia. it is a strategic choice, foreign minister. may correct you- _ choice, foreign minister. may correct you. we _ choice, foreign minister. may correct you. we have - choice, foreign minister. i— correct you. we have not made any kind of new deals, because about nuclear energy, we have signed our contract in 2014, which is nine years ago, regarding gas we have signed the first long—term contract of hours and 2021, almost two

years ago. and we also have a long—term oil contract many years back, the contract has been signed. ii years back, the contract has been signed.— been signed. if you listen carefully _ been signed. if you listen carefully foreign - been signed. if you listen carefully foreign minister been signed. if you listen | carefully foreign minister i said you have deepened your ties. you've deepened your ties on gas, oil and clear. the facts are there, you were grinning in moscow, you are happily signing agreements with your russian counterparts in the trade ministry. that is a fact and you've made your choice. ~ ., ~ fact and you've made your choice. ~ . ~ ., choice. what kind of new agreement _ choice. what kind of new agreement we _ choice. what kind of new agreement we have - choice. what kind of new. agreement we have signed? sorry, i don't understand you. we have not signed any new deals. i wanted tell you something. we are looking for alternative solutions, 0k? let me answer your question because i think your viewers might deserve to understand our position. we are looking for alternative solutions. for example, gas from azerbaijan. in order to deliver gas from

azerbaijan hungary, of infrastructural developments are being necessary in the south—eastern part of europe. we have reached out to the european commission together with the romanian, with the bulgarian, with the greek and turkish colleagues in order to give financing for such kind of project in order to make sure that we can buy gas from new source. no real commitment has been made yet from the side of the european commission. we have reached out to the polish as well since they are expanding their capacities regarding lng so if there is more coming into poland we will be able to buy from there as well which is going to be another source. (crosstalk) well which is going to be anothersource. (crosstalk) but another source. (crosstalk) but the anothersource. (crosstalk) but the question is how we ensure the question is how we ensure the safe energy supply to the country now and tomorrow. you are still 80% reliant on russian gas when other european countries have cut their 80% get down to 30%, in some cases 0%. it is a choice you've made stop yet doesn't really matter

what i think of it, it is interesting what ukrainians think about stopping any quote to you the words of the economic advisor to president zelensky who says this of you being in moscow last week doing your energy deals. he says you have to be completely blind not to see what kinds of crimes you in hungary are sponsoring, buying more gas from the russians means you are simply giving them more capacity to escalate the war.— giving them more capacity to escalate the war. ok, so, can i answer now? _ escalate the war. ok, so, can i answer now? go _ escalate the war. ok, so, can i answer now? go ahead. - escalate the war. ok, so, can i answer now? go ahead. thank| escalate the war. ok, so, can i- answer now? go ahead. thank you so much. answer now? go ahead. thank you so much- so _ answer now? go ahead. thank you so much. so once _ answer now? go ahead. thank you so much. so once again, _ answer now? go ahead. thank you so much. so once again, it - answer now? go ahead. thank you so much. so once again, it is - answer now? go ahead. thank you so much. so once again, it is a - so much. so once again, it is a physical issue. and as long as there is no physical chance for us to replace those delivery routes through which we are delivering energy sources to the country, we cannot give up this cooperation with ours. as long as no—one can give me the answer, what other route than what other sources for the

security of the energy supply of hours, we cannot move away from these agreement. i continue to tell you that a continue to tell you that a continue my discussions in order to ensure alternative ways and means of supplying the country when it comes to oil or gas or any other energy sources but as long as there is no physical chance, because we are a landlocked country, we cannot be an lng port, we have interconnected ourselves but if our neighbours are not doing their homework, if through our neighbours we cannot have access to additional sources, then what could i do? tell me, what i do? then what could i do? tell me, what i do?— then what could i do? tell me, whatldo? what i do? maybe you could look at what some — what i do? maybe you could look at what some of _ what i do? maybe you could look at what some of your _ at what some of your neighbouring states are doing, also landlocked but much less reliant on russian energy than you are, but let's move on. let's talk about ukraine's dire economic situation.— let's talk about ukraine's dire economic situation. please do not compare _ economic situation. please do not compare us _ economic situation. please do not compare us with - economic situation. please do not compare us with other- not compare us with other countries because they are having different (crosstalk) indie having different (crosstalk) we need to move on, we need to

move on to ukraine's dire economic situation. they are very reliant on agriculture for their economies wn or hungary have just declared you are going to block all food imports from ukraine and as a understand it until june the 30th. what impact do you think it will have on ukraine's very weak economy? first of all, i'm pretty sure that you are aware that we are not the only and not the first one who have made such a decision. we have agreed with the goal that ukraine should be supported when it comes to exporting green and other foodstuffs from ukraine to parts of the world where lack of export from ukraine can cause shortage of food. that was the original target. we have even donated more than $3 million for this goal and the president of ukraine has asked

for this. we have even donated $3 million, we have opened the transit routes through hungary but what happened was not that the regions in the world which have imported foodstuffs from ukraine so far could have received the grain and foodstuffs through hungary and through other countries, but the screen and other foodstuffs they exported, they simply stopped and got stuck in central europe, which was not the agreement, which was not the agreement, which was not the goal, which was not what we agreed upon and the grain and other foodstuffs spreading all around central europe, especially in hungary has caused tremendous difficulties for the hungary in agriculture and hungarian farmers. i understand the point you are making. it is difficult for hungarian farmers and i get it. the point is that ukraine is suffering and fighting a war against the russian invaders.

ukrainian farmers, the linchpin of their economy, are in dire straits. 6% of all ukrainian food exports go through hungary. if you block them all, to quote the ukrainian agricultural minister, it will be a disaster. he says that we ask our neighbours, we plead with them to take this into account. are you prepared to, or not? ~ ., account. are you prepared to, ornot?~ . , or not? we are absolutely takin: or not? we are absolutely taking this _ or not? we are absolutely taking this into _ or not? we are absolutely taking this into account i or not? we are absolutely. taking this into account and thatis taking this into account and that is why we have opened all our transit routes for ukraine to export foodstuffs and green from ukraine to countries where the export should be targeted. but this is what is happening. ukrainian grain and foodstuff is stuck in central europe. the agreement was that we allow the transit and we are ready to continue to do so. but ruining our older culture and our agricultural sector is not something that they want us to accept. something that they want us to acce t. ~ ., something that they want us to accet. ~ . ,, something that they want us to accet_ . ., , , accept. we have spoken in this

interview about _ accept. we have spoken in this interview about the _ accept. we have spoken in this interview about the fallout i interview about the fallout from the russian invasion of ukraine, economic, military, diplomatic. 0ne ukraine, economic, military, diplomatic. one of the fallouts for you right now is an increasingly toxic relationship with the united states stop the us �*s later sanctions package aimed at vladimir putin actually ended up also sanctioning a bank taste in budapest which is minority owned by hungarian shareholders and run by hungarians including one individual who has been now sanctioned by the united states. in the us ambassador in your country said, quote: we have deep concerns about the continuing eagerness of hungarian leaders to expand and deepen ties with the russian federation. are you going to listen to the united states and cut those ties with russia? first of all we consider the united states a friend and ally

stop we are members in the same defence alliance, we have a very long lasting cooperation with the americans, american companies form one of the largest group of investors here in hungary and employ around a thousand people so we do consider the relationship with the united states is extremely important. we respect that our approach is different to their approach. we respect that but what we do not respect is that pressure is being put on us on many issues. we simply cannot accept that they want to put pressure on us to change our position because we believe that an allied membership, an allied partnership, a friendly relationship must be based on mutual respect and since we are in totally different geographic location, if you look at issues

they are different but we will not accept any kind of pressure on ours. when it comes to the bank, we still believed before the war that the bank could have played an important role in giving financial assistance to the economy development here in central europe. since the war has broken up it became obvious that the bank cannot fulfil these goals. and since the united states impose sanctions on the bank we decided to leave the bank as well. ~ ., decided to leave the bank as well. ~ . , ., .. well. what will you do if the us congress _ well. what will you do if the us congress puts _ well. what will you do if the us congress puts new- well. what will you do if the i us congress puts new sanctions on hungarian individuals and institutions? there is a bill that may come before congress next month calling for sanctions on hungary. how will you respond?— you respond? don't go into science fiction, _ you respond? don't go into science fiction, we - you respond? don't go into science fiction, we do i you respond? don't go into science fiction, we do not l you respond? don't go into i science fiction, we do not know if it will happen.— if it will happen. and if it does? then _ if it will happen. and if it does? then we - if it will happen. and if it does? then we will- if it will happen. and if it i does? then we will address the issue. does? then we will address the issue- you _ does? then we will address the issue. you must _ does? then we will address the issue. you must be _ does? then we will address the issue. you must be aware i does? then we will address the issue. you must be aware of i does? then we will address the | issue. you must be aware of not 'ust the issue. you must be aware of not just the toxic — issue. you must be aware of not just the toxic relationship i just the toxic relationship with the united states right now but many member states of

nato and the eu are very fed up with hungary. 0ne nato and the eu are very fed up with hungary. one issue right now is sweden. you are one of only two countries in nato locking the success of sweden's membership application to nato. you finally let finland three with a green light, why are you still blocking sweden? first with a green light, why are you still blocking sweden?- still blocking sweden? first of all, the government's - still blocking sweden? first ofj all, the government's position is clear. because i was the one to submit the draft piece of legislation to the agenda of the parliament. in the draft says that parliament should agree with the ratification. the government agrees with the enlargement of nato both in the case of finland and sweden. so when the decision is going to take place depends on the parliamentary group of ours, many members of which do feel

offended by many criticisms and comments made by swedish government officials against hungary and we consider those unfair. the criticism. so mutual respect would be great to return to our relationship and if there is mutual respect such decisions are easier and can be made quicker. it is up to the parliamentary group when they will be ready to make the decision. the government's position is clearly supportive. a final question and again it concerns your outlier status in key institutions. this time the eu. the european union is placing conditions on giving billions of euros of future funding to hungary, conditions based upon your commitment, your government's commitment to reform yourjudicial your government's commitment to reform your judicial system your government's commitment to reform yourjudicial system and reform your judicial system and also reform yourjudicial system and also to reform key pieces of legislation such as your child protection act which many in europe see as fundamentally contrary to eu values when it

comes to respect for lgbt rights. they say that without you changing and reforming, you will not at the billions from the european union in the jar. are you prepared to make these changes? are you prepared to make these chances? , are you prepared to make these chances? . .. are you prepared to make these chances? , ., . . changes? first of all we have to make clear— changes? first of all we have to make clear that _ changes? first of all we have to make clear that this i to make clear that this european money, the european funds are not made of generosity or goodwill or largess by the european union. the european funds are not falling from the sky, they do not come out of scratch. these funds a created by the common performance in the common achievement in the common work of the european people including hungarians. so the money must be paid to hungary. 0n the other hand, last year we agreed with the european commission on 17 laws which we had to pass in hungary in parliament, which we did, regardless of this fact we are not sending the money to us. and there is an area where we

do not optimise and that is the area of the protection of our children. we will not make any compromise about the protection of our children and you can take that for granted. indie of our children and you can take that for granted. we have run out of _ take that for granted. we have run out of time _ take that for granted. we have run out of time and _ take that for granted. we have run out of time and i _ take that for granted. we have run out of time and i thank i take that for granted. we have j run out of time and i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. thank you so much. hello there. we've started this week off on a pretty warm note. in fact, many parts of the uk saw the warmest day of the year so far on monday. however, over the next few days, those temperatures will be coming down as we pick up a chilly easterly breeze. and there could even be

a bit of rain in places by the end of the week. now, high pressure dominates the scene over the next few days, sitting across scandinavia, bringing this easterly breeze. but more icy bars on the chart mean that easterly wind picks up and we'll start to see these weather fronts rolling in off the near continent, bringing outbreaks of rain, particularly for england and wales, whereas further north it should tend to stay largely dry. now for tuesday morning, we'll start off with a bit of low cloud mist, but that should tend to burn away. many places will see a sunny day, but we'll see thicker cloud for southern and southeastern areas. and the breeze will be stronger, noticeably cooler, i think, across the board, but certainly down north sea coast. that's because the sea temperatures are pretty low at this time of year, seven or eight degrees. so it will feel cool immediately on the north sea coast, head further inland and again, we're close to the mid—teens, some of the highest temperatures for western scotland, up to the high teens there. so as we move out of tuesday day through the night, we'll start to see further low clouds and mist the rolling in off the north sea once again, especially for

england and wales, eastern scotland, clearer skies further west. so it's here where we could see temperatures dip close to freezing two, three degrees. generally for most, we're between four and seven celsius. a little change as we head into wednesday. again, we've got high pressure dominating the scene. it's going to be another windy day, strong easterly winds, so feeling cool again along the north sea coast and we'll see thicker cloud at times rolling in across england and wales. clusters of showers affecting the south of england, certainly the south west, perhaps in towards south wales. but most places will be dry, get a chilly feel to things towards the east, further west where around the low to mid—teens celsius. and then as we move throughout thursday into friday, we start to see more weather fronts pushing in some of these weather fronts, bringing more prolonged rain at times to england and wales on friday. and again, it's going to be quite cool with a strong east the breeze so temperatures dipping away as we head towards the end of the week into the weekend. and there's a greater chance of many of us, certainly england and wales, seeing some wetter weather.

live from london, this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock. fighting in sudan continues, despite the un secretary of state calling for a ceasefire. two men are arrested in new york for allegedly operating a chinese secret police station. scientists discover shellfish have been able to survive on a vast floating island of plastic waste drifting in the pacific 0cean. british sign language screens have been introduced at a british railway station to relay the latest travel information to deaf rail users.

hello and welcome.