this is bbc news. coming up, we will have all of the headlines and main news for you as newsday continues at the top of the hour, but first it's hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. they say a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. in that context, there are growing concerns in both the european union and nato that one member state, hungary, is undermining their collective cohesion. hungary is a consistent outlier on many

issues, from supporting ukraine with weapons and sanctions to welcoming sweden into nato. my guest is hungary's foreign minister peter szijjarto. will hungary pay a price for its defiance? foreign minister peter szijjarto in budapest, welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much for the invitation again, iam happy to be here again. it is a pleasure to have you back on the programme, mr szijjarto. let me start with simple question. a terrible war has been raging in ukraine for more than a year as a result of the russian military invasion. who do you in hungary,

want to see when that more? ——win that war. we want this war are to be finished, to be stopped as soon as possible because this war takes place in our neighbourhood and you can imagine that if there is a war in your neighbourhood the impacts of the war are being immediate and severe, unfortunately, and please do not forget that when you talk to me, you talk to a representative of a nation, members of which are dying in this war. given the fact that there is a significant hungarian community living in the western part of ukraine, members of which are ukrainian citizens, they are mobilised to the ukrainian army, many of them are being deployed to the front lines and many of them unfortunately do die. so what we would like to see is a immediate ceasefire to be established, we want peace

talks to take place and we want a peace agreement to be reached, finally, which would stop killing innocent people. so you cannot say to me on international television that you want ukraine to win that war? i don't think that this war will have winners. this war only does have losers because people are dying in this war, so speaking about a winner in this context, i'm afraid does not make sense. your prime minister viktor orban last year said we shouldn't be on russia's side or on ukraine's side, we should be between the two. that strikes me as very peculiar. you are a member state of nato, you are in the eu, both of those organisations have very clear positions. you also, as an individual nation, voted at the un general assembly to join a declaration demanding a full russian withdrawal from all ukrainian

territory in accordance with international law. why is it so difficult for you to say that you want ukraine to push russian forces out of the country? look, our position is absolutely clear since the very beginning of this war. we condemn the war in the strongest possible way. we stand up for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of ukraine without any kind of doubt, without any kind of question. this is a basic principle of ours, that territorial integrity and sovereignty of all countries including ukraine, must be respected. so we want this war to be stopped as soon as possible because for us, the number one priority is to save lives of the people and in order to save lives of the people, this war must be stopped because of the war is not being stopped, if it is being escalated and prolonged, that means that there are more

and more people dying. but with respect, this idea, if i may... (crosstalk) i don't think it makes sense to speak about winner because there are already losers of this war. viktor orban's view of what a ceasefire means doesn't seem to fit with the facts. for example, last summer he said, "the west must stop supplying weapons to ukraine because the more nato gives to the ukrainians, the more russia will push the frontline forward." that was plainly wrong, because after he spoke, nato increased its weapons supplies and what we saw was that ukraine successfully pushed russian forces back from swathes of territory in kharkiv and kherson regions. it is quite clear that ukraine with more weapons from the west can succeed in pushing russian forces back. what is your problem with that?

first of all, thanks god nato does not deliver weapons to this conflict. it would be very bad if nato took part in this conflict because if nato becomes a direct party to this conflict, it would mean third world war the next day. so thanks god the decision we have made in nato that nato is not a party to the conflict is still valid, so there are member states who are supplying ukraine with weapon and other military equipment. we do not do so. we have been carrying out the largest humanitarian operation of the history of ours but we do not deliver weapons because our position is very clear, peace is much better than the war and we do not see that the weapon deliveries would stop the war. what we think would stop the war is ceasefire and peace talks, and you know, if there are peace talks and a peace agreement is being made, it

does not necessarily mean that the current status quo is being frozen. we remember our own history, unfortunately, that when a peace deal was made, then the borders agreed in these peace talks were totally different compared to the front lines. so that's why we urge for peace talks to take place with all the relevant parties at the table and a peace agreement to be made finally in order to close this conflict because we are suffering too much, ukrainian people are suffering too much as well. you know that president zelensky and ukrainians watching this interview will be disgusted by what you say, they will see it simply as you acting as an apologist for the kremlin. you want a ceasefire which leaves russian forces in control of at least what, 20% of ukrainian territory? but why do you say that? why do you say that? i've said exactly that if there are peace talks, it means that the current frontlines do not equal the agreement.

you may know a different vladimir putin from the one that i have seen operating in recent years. you seriously believe, do you, that vladimir putin is going to see ukraine, halt its military operations and then voluntarily give up land which he has already annexed to the russian federation? you are living in fantasyland, mr szijjarto. i understand that we are in a disagreement there, but still, i do believe that there is no military solution to this conflict. we do not think that there would be any military solution to this conflict. we have to save lives and we have to make sure that the principle of respect to territorial integrity and sovereignty is being respected. let's talk about a different aspect of the ukraine russia war, that is sanctions,

economic strategy and you in hungary and your determination to deepen your economic relationship based on energy with russia at a time when everybody else in europe is determined to wean themselves off reliance on russian energy. why are you doing that? well, i hope we do agree that the energy supply is a physical question, and it is neither ideological nor political. because the ideology of political statement, it is impossible to supply your economy with gas or oil or it is impossible to heat your houses or your flat. so as long as the infrastructural network makes us to co—operate with the russians on ensuring the safe supply of our country with energy, we have co—operate with them and we will co—operate with them. well, it is a choice,

foreign minister. it is an interesting choice because you can look at many other european countries whether it be the baltic states, germany, poland or finland, a whole host of european states have weaned themselves pretty much completely off what used to be a very great reliance on russian energy, you've gone in the opposite direction. just a few days you were in moscow signing new deals on gas, oil and nuclear power which simply deepens your reliance on russia. it is a strategic choice, foreign minister. may i correct you. we have not made any kind of new deals, because about nuclear energy, we have signed our contract in 2014, which is nine years ago. regarding gas we have signed the last long—term contract of ours in 2021, almost two years ago. and we also have a long—term oil contract many

years back, the contract has been signed. if you listen carefully foreign minister i said you have deepened your ties. you've deepened your ties on gas, oil and nuclear. the facts are there, you were grinning in moscow, you are happily signing agreements with your russian counterparts in the trade ministry. that is a fact and you've made your choice. what kind of new agreement we have signed? sorry, i don't understand you. we have not signed any new deals. once again i want to underline, we have a long—standing co—operation. i wanted tell you something. we are looking for alternative solutions, 0k? let me answer your question because i think your viewers might deserve to understand our position. we are looking for alternative solutions. for example, gas from azerbaijan. in order to deliver gas from azerbaijan to hungary, a lot of infrastructural developments are being

necessary in the south—eastern part of europe. we have reached out to the european commission together with the romanian, with the bulgarian, with the greek and turkish colleagues in order to give financing for such kind of project in order to make sure that we can buy gas from new source. no real commitment has been made yet from the side of the european commission. we have reached out to the polish as well since they are expanding their capacities regarding lng so if there is more lng coming into poland we will be able to buy from there as well which is going to be another source. (crosstalk) but the question is how we ensure the safe energy supply to the country now and tomorrow. you are still 80% reliant on russian gas when other european countries have cut their 80% get down to 30%, in some cases 0%. it is a choice you've made. it doesn't really matter what i think of it, it is interesting what ukrainians think about it. and i quote to you the words

of the economic advisor to president zelensky who says this of you being in moscow last week doing your energy deals. he says, "you have to be completely blind not to see what kinds of crimes you in hungary are sponsoring, buying more gas from the russians means you are simply giving them more capacity to escalate the war." ok, so, can i answer now? go ahead. thank you so much. so once again, it is a physical issue. and as long as there is no physical chance for us to replace those delivery routes through which we are delivering energy sources to the country, we cannot give up this cooperation with ours. as long as no—one can give me the answer, what other route and what other sources for the security of the energy supply of ours, we cannot move away from these agreements.

i continue to tell you that a continue my discussions in order to ensure alternative ways and means of supplying the country when it comes to oil or gas or any other energy sources but as long as there is no physical chance, because we are a landlocked country, we cannot be an lng port, we have interconnected ourselves but if our neighbours are not doing their homework, if through our neighbours we cannot have access to additional sources, then what could i do? tell me, what could i do? maybe you could look at what some of your neighbouring states are doing, also landlocked but much less reliant on russian energy than you are, but let's move on. let's talk about ukraine's dire economic situation. please do not compare us with other countries because they are having different... (crosstalk) we need to move on, we need to move on to ukraine's dire

economic situation. they are very reliant on agriculture for their economy. you, in hungary havejust declared you are going to block all food imports from ukraine and as a understand it untiljune the 30th. what impact do you think that will have on ukraine's very weak economy? first of all, i'm pretty sure that you are aware that we are not the only and not the first one who have made such a decision. we have agreed with the goal that ukraine should be supported when it comes to exporting grain and other foodstuffs from ukraine to parts of the world where lack of export from ukraine can cause shortage of food. that was the original target. we have even donated more than $3 million for this goal and the president of ukraine has asked for this. we have even donated $3 million, we have opened

the transit routes through hungary but what happened was not that the regions in the world which have imported foodstuffs from ukraine so far could have received the grain and foodstuffs through hungary and through other countries, but this grain and other foodstuffs they exported, they simply stopped and got stuck in central europe, which was not the agreement, which was not the goal, which was not what we agreed upon. and the grain and other foodstuffs spreading all around central europe, especially in hungary has caused tremendous difficulties for the hungarian agriculture and hungarian farmers. i understand the point you are making. it is difficult for hungarian farmers and i get it. the point is that ukraine is suffering and fighting a war against the russian invaders. ukrainian farmers, the linchpin of their economy, are in dire

straits. 6% of all ukrainian food exports go through hungary. if you block them all, to quote the ukrainian agricultural minister, it will be a disaster. he says that we ask our neighbours, we plead with them to take this into account. are you prepared to, or not? we are absolutely taking this into account and that is why we have opened all our transit routes for ukraine to export foodstuffs and grain from ukraine to countries where the export should be targeted. but this is what is happening. ukrainian grain and foodstuff is stuck in central europe. the agreement was that we allow the transit and we are ready to continue to do so. but ruining our agriculture and our agricultural sector is not something that they want us to accept. we have spoken in this interview about the fallout from the russian invasion of ukraine, economic, military, diplomatic.

one of the fallouts for you right now is an increasingly toxic relationship with the united states. the us�*s latest sanctions package aimed at vladimir putin actually ended up also sanctioning a bank based in budapest which is minority owned by hungarian shareholders and run by hungarians including one individual who has been now sanctioned by the united states. and the us ambassador in your country said, quote: "we have deep concerns about the continuing eagerness of hungarian leaders to expand and deepen ties with the russian federation." are you going to listen to the united states and cut those ties with russia? first of all we consider the united states a friend and ally. we are members in the same

defence alliance, we have a very long lasting cooperation with the americans, american companies form one of the largest group of investors here in hungary and employ around a thousand people so we do consider the relationship with the united states as extremely important. we respect that our approach is different to their approach. we respect that but what we do not respect is that pressure is being put on us on many issues. we simply cannot accept that they want to put pressure on us to change our position because we believe that an allied membership, an allied partnership, a friendly relationship must be based on mutual respect and since we are in totally different geographic location, if you look at issues they are different but we will not accept any kind of pressure on oui’s.

when it comes to the bank, we still believed before the war that the bank could have played an important role in giving financial assistance to the economy development here in central europe. since the war has broken out it became obvious that the bank cannot fulfil these goals. and since the united states imposed sanctions on the bank we decided to leave the bank as well. what will you do if the us congress puts new sanctions on hungarian individuals and institutions? there is a bill that may come before congress next month calling for sanctions on hungary. how will you respond? don't go into science fiction, we do not know if it will happen. and if it does? then we will address the issue. you must be aware of notjust the toxic relationship with the united states right now but many member states of nato and the eu are very fed up with hungary. one issue right now is sweden.

you are one of only two countries in nato blocking the success of sweden's membership application to nato. you finally let finland through with a green light, why are you still blocking sweden? first of all, the government's position is clear. because i was the one to submit the draft piece of legislation to the agenda of the parliament. in the draft says that parliament should agree with the ratification. the government agrees with the enlargement of nato both in the case of finland and sweden. so when the decision is going to take place depends on the parliamentary group of ours, many members of which do feel offended by many criticisms and comments made by swedish

government officials against hungary and we consider those unfair. the criticism. so mutual respect would be great to return to our relationship and if there is mutual respect such decisions are easier and can be made quicker. it is up to the parliamentary group when they will be ready to make the decision. the government's position is clearly supportive. a final question and again it concerns your outlier status in key institutions. this time the eu. the european union is placing conditions on giving billions of euros of future funding to hungary, conditions based upon your commitment, your government's commitment to reform your judicial system and also to reform key pieces of legislation such as your child protection act which many in europe see as fundamentally contrary to eu values when it comes to respect for lgbt rights. they say that without

you changing and reforming, you will not at the billions from the european union in the jar. the european union in the future. are you prepared to make these changes? first of all we have to make clear that this european money, the european funds are not made of generosity or goodwill or nice gesture by the european union. the european funds are not falling from the sky, they do not come out of scratch. these funds are created by the common performance and the common achievement and the common work of the european people including hungarians. so the money must be paid to hungary. on the other hand, last year we agreed with the european commission on 17 laws which we had to pass in hungary in parliament, which we did, regardless of this fact we are not sending the money to us. and there is an area where we do not optimise

and that is the area of the protection of our children. we will not make any compromise about the protection of our children and you can take that for granted. we have run out of time and i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. thank you so much. hello. big contrast in the weather across the uk on tuesday. we've got up to 21 degrees at calloway in the scottish highlands. plenty of sunshine generally across the highlands. this image from the afternoon and ness further east edinburgh lots of low cloud mist and murk being dragged in on the easterly

when this was newington just nine degrees but similar temperatures really along much of the north sea coast on tuesday afternoon won't be much different either, i fear this wednesday, perhaps brighter though, across eastern england as the area of cloud and showery rain that we saw hanging around on tuesday moves away westwards. but it is those north sea temperatures that are real killers to the temperatures adjacent to the north sea. even on land at this time of year with an easterly wind, basically, we pick up cold air that's been sitting across the north sea and feed it straight into eastern coasts. further west with some sunshine, things do get chance to warm up. and we're looking at highs towards the west today in the west of any sunshine of 15 or 16 degrees, a bit more cloud for wales. in the south—west, though, one or two showers around here could be a shade cooler. pollen levels down from the very high levels across england and wales that we saw earlier this week, but still very high in a few spots and high quite widely across the uk

for any allergy sufferers. now looking to thursday, those isobars on that chart opened up a little bit there. for the keen eyed amongst you, that should mean a lighter winds going through the night with clear skies, lighterwinds, some cold air hanging around there. you've got all the ingredients to make for a frosty start to thursday. gardeners can easily be caught out, i know i have been, by putting out tender plants at this time of year and then there's temperatures falling away. and even through thursday daytime, we just pull the wind round to a bit more of a north—easterly direction. that's just going to bring in some slightly cooler air than we started the week with perhaps some showers into eastern england later in the day. what we're looking at is that our temperatures tending away from the mid—teens into perhaps the lower end of double figures for thursday and still perhaps just ten degrees along the north sea coast. now, end of the week, things start to get more lively. the high pressure in the north gives way to allow low pressure to come swirling up from the south. that means we will see, i think, some showers spreading across england and wales on friday more widely across the whole

of the uk for saturday and sunday. and then quite a shock to the system, i think as we potentially pick up a northerly wind and some much colder weather for early next week.

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