the meeting that no changes were at the meeting that no changes were requested by the uk government and there was no mention of the consideration for section 35 order. the secretary of state for scotland's first contact on the bill was a letter on them 16th of january informing us he would be relaying the section 35 order the next day. the house of commons motion seeking to annul the order was not allocated debating time by the uk government. so farfrom raising so far from raising these concerns to the normal government channels, the secretary of state use the section 35 power exactly as even conservative mps viewed at the time of the 1990. an absolute veto to strike down any evolved legislation, passed by a majority of this parliament he dislikes without discussion based on political, not policyjudgment. immediately after policy judgment. immediately after receiving policyjudgment. immediately after receiving mrjack�*s letter in january, shona robinson offered a meeting with the secretary of state in which she offered a potential way

forward, the scottish government would work with the uk government to explore potential amendments to the bill. the secretary of state refused this offer stating there would be no further meetings between the governments on this issue. he set up three options for the scottish government. we can drop the bill passed by the majority of this parliament altogether, we can address these concerns in an amended bill without providing which bill without the section 35 on top of it can pursue legal action. the uk government state of does not provide a reason. any divergence of approaching scotland would be unacceptable saying ensure it to different regimes create adverse effects. it is therefore proved impossible to find a way forward or to consider a form of amending the bill that this parliament would agree to and lead to the secretary

of state to revoke the order. the scottish government remains committed to the bill as amended and as agreed by a majority in this parliament, which make it easierfor trans people to access the existing rights. 0ver trans people to access the existing rights. over 350 million people around the world already live in countries and regions with a type of system is proposed in the bill. irrespective of your view on the bill, and i recognise that some people remain firmly opposed to it, challenging the uk's use of section 35 is the only way for a government that wants to defend the democratic will and devolved powers of this parliament. do not challenge the order with addict accepting the secretary of state could strike down any devolved legislation, even after any devolved legislation, even after a scrutiny of parliament and after msps have amended, debated and voted on a bill. after all that one person can decide the bill should not proceed without that decision been questioned, it sets a precedent

calls into question devilish in itself. if the uk government can use this power once, without being challenged, how long will it be before it uses it again? as we have seen with the seal convention, once a precedent has been set, the uk government will find it easy to justify using a power again and again, gradually eroding the hard—won powers of scotland. to conclude, i know that was the bill was passed by an overwhelming majority of members, not all msps or all of the wider scottish public agree with the aims of this bill. but i hope we can agree that the unprecedented intervention of the secretary of state for scotland to halt a bill on devolved issues already passed by this parliament must be challenged. that is why scottish ministers have lodged this petition forjudicial review, we will fight to defend the devolved democratic function of this parliament and it is right we do so.

applause thank you, the cabinet secretary will now take questions of the issues raised in her statement. i tend to allow 20 minutes. i will be grateful _ tend to allow 20 minutes. i will be grateful if — tend to allow 20 minutes. i will be grateful if members wanting to ask a question— grateful if members wanting to ask a question can press the request to speak— question can press the request to speak buttons. can question can press the request to speak buttone— speak buttons. can i refer to my reuister speak buttons. can i refer to my register of— speak buttons. can i refer to my register of interest _ speak buttons. can i refer to my register of interest as _ speak buttons. can i refer to my register of interest as an - speak buttons. can i refer to my l register of interest as an advocate and thank the cabinet secretary for early state of her statement. it is deeply disappointing that the scottish government has chosen to challenge the section 35 order in the courts and display meetings are now to divert attention from a serious crisis that is currently engulfing the snp. a lengthy and expensive litigation is the wrong choice for this legislation and for others it impacts, it doesn't benefit the trans community, it doesn't benefit women and it doesn't benefit the scottish taxpayer. lord hope, one of scotland has met most eminentjudges and a former deputy president of the supreme court, has described the prospects of success

here as very low and implied it is a waste of public money. let us remember the scottish government was warned of the impact of the bill on the equality act during the passage of the bill and yet ploughed on regardless. furthermore, despite uk government publishing its very detailed statement of reasons, behind its decisions to make the order, we are yet to see the details of this scottish government's legal position. i am fully aware of the restrictions that apply here, but if it is in the public interest for the scottish government to challenge the section 35 order, then logically it follows it is also in the public interest that the scottish government should publish its legal advice. my question is a very specific. whether cabinet secretary confirm whether the lord advocate has tended legal advice on the prospects of success, pushing a publish that advice and will she advise parliament on the estimated cost of that litigation if it is appealed all the way to the supreme

court? figs appealed all the way to the supreme court? �* , appealed all the way to the supreme court? . , , ,, ., court? as the member will well know there is a convention _ court? as the member will well know there is a convention not _ court? as the member will well know there is a convention not to _ court? as the member will well know there is a convention not to publish i there is a convention not to publish legal advice and it is exactly the same position that the uk government will take as well, as they move forward with this and i highly doubt donald cameron will be suggesting the uk government publish their legal advice. the uk government publish their legaladvice. let's the uk government publish their legal advice. let's have a debate on this about what we can and cannot do in that realistic basis. we are very keen to be as transparent as possible on this and that is exactly why we have asked for the agreement of the court to publish the petition and we have recently received an agreement that we can do that and we hope to publish that in due course, i hope tomorrow, now that confirmation from the court has been received. i would again strongly, strongly caution against any suggestion that we are doing this out of eight desire to take this as

ourfirst course of out of eight desire to take this as our first course of action. we have... i detailed in the statement the alternatives we had and they were closed down to us by the uk government, not by our decisions. that is a position i did not want to get into, it is a position the scottish government didn't want to get into, but if we are going to have a uk government that is refusing to have discussions with us i make no apology for standing up for the rights of this parliament and for a belt that this parliament has passed. and when it comes to... applause and when it comes to the matter of cost, i appreciate this is a matter of concern for members and indeed for the public, this is not the way that we would want to go about things and therefore we didn't want this to take place, but we will publish, of course, the costs for this once the action is completed. it is impossible for us to be able to do so beforehand because we do

not know how this will proceed within the courts. 0nce not know how this will proceed within the courts. once that has gone through due process, we will be very transparent and publish the costs on this issue.— very transparent and publish the costs on this issue. thank you very much, i costs on this issue. thank you very much. i would _ costs on this issue. thank you very much, i would like _ costs on this issue. thank you very much, i would like to _ costs on this issue. thank you very much, i would like to thank- costs on this issue. thank you very much, i would like to thank the - much, i would like to thank the cabinet secretary for advance site of the statement. it is critical we do not lose sight of the purpose of reform and everyday to bill spence in court as another day that trans people do not have access to a reformed process. these upper section 35 order by the uk government was the wrong approach and a mechanism to be used in a last resort. this issue is too serious and too important to be reduced simply to a political debate or a constitutional football. the cabinet secretary mentioned the section one of four meetings between uk and scottish governments held in relation to the uk government 2018 proposals. my predecessor in this role, the former cabinet secretary, confirmed the scottish government had committed to working with the uk government on section 104 in relation to this bill, therefore

cabinet secretary outlined in detail and outcome of those discussions in relation to section 104 for this bill, as in we asked for in the process of the spell and we were confirmed it was in hand. given the length of time for case is likely to take, as has been widely reported, whether cabinet secretary given outlined guide to the parliament of how long she expects this matter to be in the courts, in line with legal advice but she will have received. finally, whilst the reform is locked in the legal proceeding, can cabinet secretary outlined what the specific action the government is taking to test support trans people, particularly in health care where waiting lists remain too long. figs waiting lists remain too long. as many people will be concerned as we progress to legal action, we will be concerned because of the delay to dispel and the impact it is having the trans community. —— this bill. i am deeply sorry it has come to this and we are not moving directly

towards royal assent. the section 104 meetings, we are progressing discussions and that was positive and constructive between officials, nothing was raised to ministers that would like we would have a section 35 order coming our way or anything that wouldn't suggest we were moving forward with that section 104 in due course. as for do on many bills in this area. how long it will take in court is a matter for the court, it will be for the court to decide once it has heard. 0bviously will be for the court to decide once it has heard. obviously the uk government, it is not too late for a change of heart and for them to actually withdraw that section 35 order and save us all. save us all the challenge of a court process and impact that will have on the trans community and others who are concerned about this bill. it is not a matterfor me concerned about this bill. it is not a matter for me to lay a timetable out, i am unable to do so. it does

raise a very important point about other matters relating to the trans community, it is important we do step forward because while this was an important piece of legislation, and it is not the only aspect of my portfolio that can assist. he has my full assurance we will continue to move forward on these issues across government. move forward on these issues across government-— government. thank you very much. studio: lets _ government. thank you very much. studio: lets leave _ government. thank you very much. studio: lets leave there. - government. thank you very much. studio: lets leave there. if- government. thank you very much. studio: lets leave there. if you . government. thank you very much. | studio: lets leave there. if you are justjoining us, we have been hearing a statement in the scottish parliament from the msp for dunfermline and the s&p social justice secretary confirming that the scottish government will be taking legal action against the central uk government in westminster, this is of the day with the scotland gender recognition bill which was passed by a majority of msps but a particular quote of legislation in westminster meant that sexual government kibosh that i knocked on the head, and that is

what the scottish government is taking the westminster government to court over —— that central government knocked on the head. there was a bit of a discussion going on there, shelley and some of set out, in some detail, why the scottish government had to take this decision and we have been hearing questions from the opposition parties. it is not new what was said. we have heard these arguments before when it was first announced by the uk government, by alister jack, the scottish secretary, that there would be a section 35 order but she said this had not been taken lightly. there would have been a lot of discussions about whether to go to court. it is a big decision for the scottish government to make. we do not know a timescale on this. we do not know a timescale on this. we do not know how long this will take, whether the court process is likely

to be very expensive and time—consuming, when there is a lot of other issues that the scottish government is also dealing with, both internally within the snp and the nhs, the cost of living crisis. she said it hadn't been taken lightly but she did say it couldn't go unchallenged due to future legislation, that if the scottish government let this happen once, then why would the uk government possibly not do it time and time again. she said that those powers, the section 35 powers within the scotland act should be used as a last resort. she said it wasn't a last resort. she said it wasn't a last resort, she said it was a complete opposite and no representations had been made by the uk government. we haven't had reaction yet from the uk government, so they may disagree. she said there

was plenty of opportunity for the uk government to come to them as part of the process, even during the consultation process but it wasn't until stage three of the bill, which was quite late on, i think that was october so several weeks before the 0ctober so several weeks before the bill was passed, and shirley—anne somerville said there was no request for changes. she said when they did hearfrom the uk for changes. she said when they did hear from the uk government they were given three options, option one was to drop the bill completely, section two was to address the concerns, but she said she didn't know what those concerns were or to pursue legal action. that is what the scottish government had decided to do, to pursue legal action. let's bring in michael simmons, data editor at the spectator.- editor at the spectator. quite a stron: editor at the spectator. quite a strong statement _ editor at the spectator. quite a strong statement against - editor at the spectator. quite a strong statement against the i editor at the spectator. quite a - strong statement against the central government in westminster, in

particular alisterjack, the secretary of state for scotland, he was accused of using his absolute veto to strike down legislation he doesn't like. shirley—anne somerville says it calls into question devolution itself. is that a fair statement? i question devolution itself. is that a fair statement?— question devolution itself. is that a fair statement? i am not sure it is a fair statement _ a fair statement? i am not sure it is a fair statement because - a fair statement? i am not sure it is a fair statement because this i a fair statement? i am not sure itj is a fair statement because this is in a sense — is a fair statement because this is in a sense devolution working in the way it_ in a sense devolution working in the way it was_ in a sense devolution working in the way it was set up to do by the scotland _ way it was set up to do by the scotland act. we have this section 35 provision, if the uk government feels _ 35 provision, if the uk government feels that— 35 provision, if the uk government feels that a — 35 provision, if the uk government feels that a particular bill passed by the _ feels that a particular bill passed by the scottish government is impinging on uk law, they can challenge that. now of course, there is a smart— challenge that. now of course, there is a smart politics on the uk site and other— is a smart politics on the uk site and other scottish government site, people _ and other scottish government site, people in— and other scottish government site, people in the uk government felt rightly. _ people in the uk government felt rightly, as it turned out, this could — rightly, as it turned out, this could create a potential problem for nicola _ could create a potential problem for nicola sturgeon. equally there are people _ nicola sturgeon. equally there are people on— nicola sturgeon. equally there are people on the uk government side who felt the _ people on the uk government side who felt the seriously was an issue imposing _ felt the seriously was an issue imposing on the equalities act. likewise. — imposing on the equalities act. likewise, on the snp aside, there is

a genuine _ likewise, on the snp aside, there is a genuine belief that this is a threat — a genuine belief that this is a threat to— a genuine belief that this is a threat to devolution and this needs to be _ threat to devolution and this needs to be challenged, but you have to factor _ to be challenged, but you have to factor in _ to be challenged, but you have to factor in the coalition agreement they have — factor in the coalition agreement they have got greens and the greens made _ they have got greens and the greens made very— they have got greens and the greens made very clear through the leadership campaign that they expected this deal, this bill, to stay— expected this deal, this bill, to stay part— expected this deal, this bill, to stay part of that and for it to be challenged. stay part of that and for it to be challenged-— challenged. how divisive is this issue? this _ challenged. how divisive is this issue? this specific _ challenged. how divisive is this issue? this specific piece - challenged. how divisive is this issue? this specific piece of. issue? this specific piece of legislation within scotland in general, notjust in the snp but the wider community? this general, notjust in the snp but the wider community?— wider community? this is the first time with the _ wider community? this is the first time with the snp _ wider community? this is the first time with the snp government. wider community? this is the first| time with the snp government has brought— time with the snp government has brought on a progressive issue that they have _ brought on a progressive issue that they have disconnected with the public — they have disconnected with the public. there was polling while the bill was _ public. there was polling while the bill was passing, something like two thirds _ bill was passing, something like two thirds of— bill was passing, something like two thirds of scots were actually against _ thirds of scots were actually against some of the central provisions of the bill. 0n the south id and _ provisions of the bill. 0n the south id and to _ provisions of the bill. 0n the south id and to change your legal gender, there _ id and to change your legal gender, there was— id and to change your legal gender, there was another poll at a constituency level across the uk and it found _ constituency level across the uk and it found the — constituency level across the uk and it found the ten constituencies that were most— it found the ten constituencies that were most against this, nine of them

were most against this, nine of them were in— were most against this, nine of them were in scotland. they were polarised _ were in scotland. they were polarised in the sense of the governing party supports this and a maiority_ governing party supports this and a majority of— governing party supports this and a majority of the parliament, the but the public— majority of the parliament, the but the public in general is quite against _ the public in general is quite against this bill.— the public in general is quite against this bill. that is great, thank you _ against this bill. that is great, thank you very _ against this bill. that is great, thank you very much - against this bill. that is great, thank you very much and - against this bill. that is great, i thank you very much and before against this bill. that is great, - thank you very much and before that our correspondent alexander mackenzie in glasgow. we will not rejoin the main bbc news channel. thank you. —— we will now rejoin. why did it last? it lasted because people demanded it. it lasted because the process was really good and senator mitchell did a brilliantjob of leading brilliant job of leading it brilliantjob of leading it and negotiating it. studio: just introductory remarks from bill clinton saying all of this comes down to a simple question, what is the meaning of why this peace agreement has lasted 25 years in what should happen in the next 25

years. he maps out perhaps they thought and the themes he plans to explore in the next little while. we will keep an eye on that and bring you the key clips through the course of today's programme. children conceived as a result of rape — will soon be recognised as victims of crime in england and wales. it will mean better access to information and to support services. sammy woodhouse was a victim of the rotherham grooming scandal — and fell pregnant to her abuser, when she was just 15. she's made a new bbc documentary in which she meets other mothers — and children born from abuse. emma ailes has more — and you may find the content of this report upsetting. that was literallyjust minutes after i'd give birth to him. i just look so young. becoming a mum was one of the happiest moments of sammy's life. but when her son was only 12, she had to tell him a painful truth — that the man he called dad had

raped and abused her, and that's how he was born. he didn't want to be the person who he was. in his own skin. i blamed myself, i felt so stupid. sammy and her son struggled alone with the difficult emotions. it's only now, years later, that she's discovering they're not the only ones. you're questioning everything about yourself. looking in the mirror, almost like i could see the man who raped my mother looking back at me. neil grew up adopted. their birth mother was raped by a stranger in a park, and that's how neil was born. finding out was a gut—wrenching moment. when you hear those words, it's like somebody's... almost like a video game punched into your chest and ripped your insides out. ijust broke down. so, i did meet with my birth mother, and one of the first things i said to her is, if i look like the man who did this to you, walk away. and what did she say?

she said it's fine, you don't look like him. that really changed things for me. the man who did that to my birth mother is, he isjust nothing to me. to all intents and purposes, i don't think of myself as having a birth father. i have my birth mother, and that's it. and that's enough. research suggests more than 3000 women become pregnant from rape in england and wales each year. mandy had her son as a result of being abused by her father. this is the first time she's ever talked openly about how that feels. do you think it's different for us, as mums, having a child conceived through abuse, to having children conceived in a happy relationship? yeah. how do you think it's different? before i had my other children, i thought i knew what loving a baby was. and then, when i had my proper children — it sounds awful to say that — i knew what it was.

he wasn't conceived out of love. he was conceived by... ..a monster. but by god, i love him. but _ yeah, yeah. i always say i'm the survivor, my son's the victim. because he is. because the crime happened to me, it happened to him as well. for people like sammy and her son, the coming change in the law is a moment for celebration. it will give them the legal right to information and support. and after decades in the shadows, it's a sign that their voices are finally being heard. emma ailes, bbc news. we can now speak to neil, who you heard from just now in that report. that was so difficult to watch, especially that moment, that description when you first found out. tell me psychologically how

difficult has it been to find out that biologically your father was a rapist? it that biologically your father was a ra - ist? . that biologically your father was a raist? . . . , that biologically your father was a raist? . . , m rapist? it is incredibly difficult and it is one _ rapist? it is incredibly difficult and it is one of _ rapist? it is incredibly difficult and it is one of those - rapist? it is incredibly difficult and it is one of those things i rapist? it is incredibly difficult i and it is one of those things that is so abstract to try and explain to people who haven't been through it. when you are adopted, you sort of make up things about who your parents might be and happy, wonderful fantastic stories that obviously are never going to be true, might be a princess or things like that. then you read those words on a piece of paper and your entire identity is ripped away from you in seconds. it is heartbreaking. in the simplest of terms. but it is so much more. i simplest of terms. but it is so much more. . . . . simplest of terms. but it is so much more. . ,, , _, simplest of terms. but it is so much more. . ,, , i. ., , more. i assume it hits you in waves in the moments _ more. i assume it hits you in waves in the moments after _ more. i assume it hits you in waves in the moments after finding - more. i assume it hits you in waves in the moments after finding out. i in the moments after finding out. how old were you when you found out? you talked about being adopted, this presumably affected weight wider than just yourself. i presumably affected weight wider than just yourself.— than “ust yourself. i had known i was thanjust yourself. i had known i was adapted _ thanjust yourself. i had known i was adopted since _ thanjust yourself. i had known i was adopted since i _ thanjust yourself. i had known i was adopted since i was - thanjust yourself. i had known i was adopted since i was a - thanjust yourself. i had known i was adopted since i was a little l was adopted since i was a little child but it wasn't until i was 27

when we managed to trace my birth mother and the tracing agency had beenin mother and the tracing agency had been in touch with her and we got a letter through, and the description of how i was conceived was in there. it is notjust yourself, it is your entire adopted family that it impacts. there is disbelief, denial. it is wide—ranging, but i would never say don't trace your birth parents because it is always worth doing because for every negative story, there is always going to be positives. story, there is always going to be ositives. ., ., ,., story, there is always going to be ositives. ., ., ., positives. tell me more about how ou think positives. tell me more about how you think this _ positives. tell me more about how you think this change _ positives. tell me more about how you think this change of— positives. tell me more about how you think this change of lot - positives. tell me more about how you think this change of lot to - you think this change of lot to be officially recognised as a victim and have support services, access to basic documentary information available to you, how important were those changes be?— those changes be? hopefully, if the fundin: is those changes be? hopefully, if the funding is there, _ those changes be? hopefully, if the funding is there, massively - funding is there, massively important. i paid privately to see a therapist and work through issues relating to this. if there are

statutory services available and if they are accessible, then that is massively important any massive help because not everybody is in a position to be able to afford to pay a therapist privately. i was lucky and found a charity that did a pay as you thought. but to have a targeted therapy support services therefore people, it really does knock the stuffing out of you. so often, in all sorts of dramatic cases, finding out detail is what people want. was it more difficult without having any sort of description that the government is going to make this change to get access to documentation, to find out facts? did you find out what happened to your father, was it any justice or did you simply not want to know? . . . �* justice or did you simply not want to know? . ., , �* ., justice or did you simply not want to know? . . , �* ., ., to know? that wasn't an avenue i ursued, to know? that wasn't an avenue i pursued. i _ to know? that wasn't an avenue i pursued. i met— to know? that wasn't an avenue i pursued. i met my _ to know? that wasn't an avenue i pursued, i met my birth -

to know? that wasn't an avenue i pursued, i met my birth mother, | to know? that wasn't an avenue i i pursued, i met my birth mother, we have a good relationship. i know as much as she knows, as much as she has been countable sharing with me but we don't know who her attacker was and it is not something i would perceive, obviously i could give my dna to one of these dna tracing services but how do you start that conversation? you find someone and say by the way a relative of us raped my mother 49 years ago, 50 years ago. there are it. —— there are in't. if a crime has been reported and this gives you action to that and legal request, that is spectacular. brute to that and legal request, that is spectacular-— spectacular. we are greatly of takin: spectacular. we are greatly of taking time — spectacular. we are greatly of taking time to _ spectacular. we are greatly of taking time to speak- spectacular. we are greatly of taking time to speak to - spectacular. we are greatly of taking time to speak to us. i spectacular. we are greatly of. taking time to speak to us. thank you forjoining here on bbc news. you can watch out of the shadows: born from rape on bbc iplayer now. and if you've been affected by any of the issues raised, you can find information

and support at bbc.co.uk/actionline. do head there, lots of information and the documentary is well worth watching. i am and the documentary is well worth watching. iam back and the documentary is well worth watching. i am back with the headlines in a moment or two. hello, today is not quite as warm across wales as it was yesterday. we have seen more cloud coming in here. scotland has been faring nicely, particularly across western scotland and this is where we will see the highest temperatures once again. we have high pressure dominating our weather, centred to the north—east of the uk and this weather front is taking some showers away from the south—west of england but we are left with this easterly wind which is quite strong and gusty and it will make it feel chilly, especially if you haven't got the sunshine. cooler around some eastern coastal areas of the uk with the wind off the north sea, higher temperatures around the western coast but more cloud to end the afternoon across wales, the south—west and northern ireland. that will get pushed away, a bit of upslope cloud coming into the pennines, the welsh hills.

otherwise clear skies, the winds will drop a bit as well. it will be chilly overnight. those are the temperatures in towns and cities, could below freezing in grampian in the morning. heading into tomorrow, any cloud will move away and there will be a lot of sunshine around tomorrow, the winds picking up once again and dragging in some cloud from the near continent into east anglia, the south—east of england in the afternoon. that will bring some patchy rain and here it will be particularly chilly. the winds similar to what we have seen today, strongest winds across england and wales, that will make it feel chilly but at least many places will see some sunshine and in western scotland we could see temperatures as high as 18 degrees. pollen levels are still high or even very high in wales and the south—west, tree pollen at this time of the year, the grass pollen season starts next month. heading towards the end of the week, we have got high pressure sitting more to the north of the uk, keeping in that run of east or north—easterly wind but we have got some weather fronts on the scene, that means thicker cloud and some patchy rain on friday

across england and wales, if it brightens up in the south that could trigger some sharp showers and we will have a strong wind across northern england and southern scotland. scotland and northern ireland should stay dry, the best of the sunshine and highest temperatures, reasonably warm in that sunshine but much more cloud will drop the temperatures in england or wales, perhaps only ten or 11 degrees. as we head into the weekend, the chance of some rain on saturday, looks drier on sunday, but showers in northern scotland on sunday will be turning wintry in the hills. it will get colder with a northerly wind by the end of the weekend.

to annul the order was not allocated debating time by the uk government.

this live from london. this is bbc news. russia is accused of planning to cut crucial power an attempt to get a ceasefire in sudan after people flee the capital after five days of fighting. russia is accused of planning to cut crucial power and communication cables in the north sea. inflation in the uk drops slightly, but it's still the highest of the g7 nations. a 15—year—old from cornwall has just been crowned the best younger surfer on the planet. we will speak to him shortly.