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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  April 19, 2023 10:30pm-11:11pm BST

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but while he lost his head, city kept theirs to set up yet another clash in madrid. natalie pirks, bbc news. time for a look at the weather. it has just turned 10.30. here's stav da naos. good evening. behind me a typical scene of what we have been seeing over the last few days, blossom out and blue sky overhead, plenty of sunshine per stop tomorrow looks pretty similar but we will hold onto the chilly wind and that will be noticeable across england and wales. cooler down north sea coast. the breeze is a feature this evening and overnight. clear skies for many. a little low cloud and mist developing, the pennines, parts of wales also with low cloud. away from the east coast, it will be quite chilly tonight. a touch of frost in parts of scotland and western england and wales under clear skies out of town. high pressure on to
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those weather seems tomorrow. this feature running in off the near continent will be the fly in the ointment because most of the country will have another dry and sunny day, with fresh breezes again. there is the cloud, outbreaks of rain getting in to east anglia and the south—east through the afternoon period. a bit of a disappointment for part two of the day. the wind is quite gusty for many areas, especially southern and eastern parts of england. it will be cooler along north sea coasts. temperatures, nine, ten, maybe 11. elsewhere, the low to mid—teens with western scotland faring best, high teens are 20 degrees or so. with the dry and sunny weather this time of year, tree pollen will be high or very high, particularfor england and wales. high pressure holds on for the north of the uk for friday but then we start to see these weather fronts get going friday at the weekend. low pressure starts to move in, so it will turn more unsettled with outbreaks of rain and as that low pulls away towards scandinavia, it opens the floodgates
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to cold arctic air. a lovely day on friday, telling more unsettled for all and turning colder through the weekend and into all and turning colder through the weekend and into next all and turning colder through the weekend and into next week all and turning colder through the weekend and into next week for all and turning colder through the weekend and into next week for a time. see you later. you very much. and that's bbc news at ten. there's more analysis of the day's main stories on newsnight with kirsty wark which is just getting under way on bbc two. the news continues here on bbc one, as now it's time to join our colleagues across the nations and regions for the news where you are. but from the ten team, it's goodnight. it appears tonight that rishi sunak has given in to right—wing rebels demanding tougher measures in the illegal migration bill when it comes back to the commons tomorrow.
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the government plans to reset the relationship with the european court of human rights over deportation flights to rwanda, and begin using x—ray scanning as part of age assessments for migrants claiming to be under 18. we'll be speaking to a scientist on the governement�*s age assessment advisory committee. also tonight... why, when it's falling fast in the eurozone, is inflation stubbornly high in the uk? today's figure is still north of 10%. is it down to energy prices, brexit, covid? we'll try to get some answers. and we'll have a portfolio of economists, each with their own solution. and... power to the people! power to the
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eo - le! as hong kong feels the weight of beijing's security apparatus, newsnight has been talking to one of the last group of protestors who dare to speak out. translation: in the past, the police didn't pay - much attention to us. now, both plainclothed and uniformed police surround us. they even set up cameras and recorders when we set up. good evening. there has been a lot of wrangling over the illegal migration bill, which comes back to the commons tomorrow, as the government has been trying to quell an expected conservative backbench rebellion. at issue are two distinct aspects of rishi sunak and suella braverman's plans to end the small boat crossings. the role of the european court, and the way to determine whether migrants and refugees who say they are under 18 are indeed minors. nick is here with the latest. nick, what are the nature of these negotiations? we have tried very hard to get conservative backbenchers to speak to us tonight and they are keeping quiet. for backbenchers to speak to us tonight and they are keeping quiet.- and they are keeping quiet. for the moment, and they are keeping quiet. for the moment. yes- _ and they are keeping quiet. for the moment, yes. the _ and they are keeping quiet. for the moment, yes. the big _ and they are keeping quiet. for the moment, yes. the big win -
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and they are keeping quiet. for the moment, yes. the big win for- and they are keeping quiet. for the moment, yes. the big win for the l moment, yes. the big win for the conservative right of the party is the tightening of the uk position on the tightening of the uk position on the so—called rule 39 orders, these injunctions from the european court of human rights which in the case of last summer meant the removal flight to america —— removalflight rwanda did not take place. the bill will be amended to take us to the position of about 15 years ago when the uk government didn't automatically comply with these orders. that convention will be ended. and the legislation will make clear the home secretary may not necessarily accept such rulings from the strasbourg court. it is pointed out to me this would have to bejudiciously. you would have to bejudiciously. you would have to bejudiciously. you would have to be sure there was not a ruling in place against those flights from uk domestic court, though they are going to tighten the rules on injunctions from uk domestic courts. and you would also have to declare there is an emergency. the government's position is there is an emergency right now. one seniorfigure said is there is an emergency right now. one senior figure said to me,
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is there is an emergency right now. one seniorfigure said to me, they 0ne seniorfigure said to me, they are not talking about removing section 39, that would trigger a big row with european right —— the european court of human rights, tory right wanted that, they are not getting that. this is about encouraging good behaviourfrom strasbourg, they said. the encouraging good behaviour from strasbourg, they said.— strasbourg, they said. the other . uestion strasbourg, they said. the other question is _ strasbourg, they said. the other question is age _ strasbourg, they said. the other question is age verification - strasbourg, they said. the other question is age verification and l strasbourg, they said. the other i question is age verification and the rules are in place now, what is going to change? the rules are in place now, what is going to change?— rules are in place now, what is going to change? the idea is to tiuhten going to change? the idea is to tighten the _ going to change? the idea is to tighten the rules _ going to change? the idea is to tighten the rules for _ going to change? the idea is to tighten the rules for people - going to change? the idea is to i tighten the rules for people were claiming to be adults, but who are believed to be children. the idea is they would be strongly encouraged to embark on these scientific it could involve x—rays of things like part of your body, your wrists and your knees. this was introduced by priti patel, the former home secretary, but there had to be a report by scientists. so this idea is that it will start in the summer. under the priti patel rules, if you refuse to take part in this, a negative inference would be drawn from that. they want to do better than that. so john hayes the conservative
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backbencher has an idea that if you refuse to take part, it will be assumed you are an adult. it is assumed you are an adult. it is assumed they will not go that far, but they want to be tougher than priti patel. important to say you will be treated as a child whilst this is under way, but if there is a dispute, you would be in detention was that processes taking place. in detention means with adults, not on their own. hat detention means with adults, not on their own. ., ., , ., their own. not into tension with adults. what _ their own. not into tension with adults. what is _ their own. not into tension with adults. what is the _ their own. not into tension with adults. what is the politics - their own. not into tension with adults. what is the politics of i their own. not into tension with | adults. what is the politics of all this? the tory right was really unhappy and the government has given ground to them. the tory right is not 100% happy, but they are happy enough. i was talking to one senior figure who said there was unity in the conservative party, but it could fall apart because the left, they are not happy, they have concerns over children.— so, as we've been hearing from nick, for the first time, we can expect x—rays to be used as part of the process to determine the age of those asylum seekers who say they are children. anna has been examining
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whether using x—rays will make it easier to assess ages. the majority of asylum seekers who come to the uk are adults, but some are children. traffic is regular tell migrants to get rid of their id, so what happens if officials suspect someone is not telling the truth about their age? it was the former home secretary priti patel who spoke about x—raying migrants who spoke about x—raying migrants who are suspected of lying about being under 18. she, who are suspected of lying about being under18. she, as who are suspected of lying about being under 18. she, as she put it, wanted to stop grown male asylum seekers masquerading as children. now the home offices told it has taken steps now the home offices told it has ta ken steps to reform now the home offices told it has taken steps to reform age assessments by using such scientific measures, we understand this could start from the summer. joe schofield is a member of the british association of social workers and often carries out age assessments for local authorities. i often carries out age assessments for local authorities.— for local authorities. i am kind of on the fence _ for local authorities. i am kind of on the fence about _ for local authorities. i am kind of on the fence about it _ for local authorities. i am kind of on the fence about it personally. | for local authorities. i am kind of| on the fence about it personally. i think ifs scientific aiding is not
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scientific and ethical, we should not be using them, but they rarely satisfy all three of those criteria. i don't agree it is a one size fits all approach, i don't agree it is a one size fits allapproach, i i don't agree it is a one size fits all approach, i think it can contribute to an age assessment, but will not be the deciding factor. assessing the age of young asylum seekers is complex. recently published guidance for home office staff and decision—makers says physical appearance such as height, build, facialfeatures physical appearance such as height, build, facial features such as facial hair and the tone or picture of a voice may all be potential indicators of age. demeanour is also assessed, including body language, while also considering the impact of trauma. it says the policy is specifically designed to allow a large margin of error in favour of the claimant's claim to be a child. home office figures show the number of asylum applications for unaccompanied children have risen in recent years, with more than one —— with more than 5,000 process last year. during a five year nearly 8,000 age disputes were resolved
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following age assessments and half of them were found to be adults. we have also been told about multiple occasions where children had been incorrectly identified as over 18 and placed in adult hotels, which can have a devastating impact on their mental health and well—being. many experts that we have spoken to agree that the age assessment system needs improving and that scientific checks could play a role in that, but never, they say, in isolation.
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this former border force workers says he has seen a lot of female trafficking victims lie about being over 18 and grown men who have claims to be children. indie over 18 and grown men who have claims to be children. we do need to do something to _ claims to be children. we do need to do something to make the _ claims to be children. we do need to do something to make the system i claims to be children. we do need to i do something to make the system more robust. however, lam not in robust. however, i am not in favour of x-rays or— robust. however, i am not in favour of x—rays or anything like that, i think that — of x—rays or anything like that, i think that is an intrusion. rishi sunak has _ think that is an intrusion. rishi sunak has obvious retort - think that is an intrusion. ti si sunak has obvious retort about the fact that stopping the boats is a key pledge of his policy going forward. how much would introducing this type of technology actually help with tackling the number of asylum seekers? it help with tackling the number of asylum seekers?— help with tackling the number of asylum seekers? it is not going to be really relevant at _ asylum seekers? it is not going to be really relevant at all. the - be really relevant at all. the numbers of young people unaccompanied minors coming across the channel_ unaccompanied minors coming across the channel are very, very small, in comparison — the channel are very, very small, in comparison with the number of adults coming _ comparison with the number of adults coming across the channel.— coming across the channel. x-raying --eole coming across the channel. x-raying people who — coming across the channel. x-raying people who say _ coming across the channel. x-raying people who say they _ coming across the channel. x-raying people who say they are _ coming across the channel. x-raying people who say they are children - coming across the channel. x-raying| people who say they are children and are claiming asylum is a controversial policy, but it is a policy the home office says would make age assessments more robust and consistent. anna collinson. and now i am joined by tim cole, professor of medical statistics, university college london. he is a member of the government's interim age estimation scientific advisory committee, which has investigated methods for assessing the age of asylum seekers who say they are children. professor, first of all, what is the
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added value of an x—ray to determine the age of a migrant who says they are under 18? the age of a migrant who says they are underm— are under18? well, that is precisely _ are under18? well, that is precisely the _ are under18? well, that is precisely the question - are under18? well, that is precisely the question the | are under18? well, that is— precisely the question the committee was set up to answer. the current system relies on social worker interviews and the committee was asked to seek to whether and if so, how, one could use x—rays and mri, magnetic resonance imaging scans to improve the accuracy of the social work assessments. find improve the accuracy of the social work assessments.— work assessments. and 'ust to be uuite work assessments. and 'ust to be quite ceanl — work assessments. and 'ust to be quite ceanl in h work assessments. and 'ust to be quite clear, in terms _ work assessments. and 'ust to be quite clear, in terms of_ work assessments. and just to be quite clear, in terms of x-rays - work assessments. and just to be | quite clear, in terms of x-rays and quite clear, in terms of x—rays and mris, there was very little problem with radiation, virtually non—. radiation doses now are extremely low. but the report the committee produced was quite clear that the government should move away from using radiation at all. as quickly as it could. using radiation at all. as quickly as it could-— as it could. and of course, it is used abroad — as it could. and of course, it is used abroad as _ as it could. and of course, it is used abroad as well, we - as it could. and of course, it is used abroad as well, we are i as it could. and of course, it is | used abroad as well, we are not as it could. and of course, it is - used abroad as well, we are not the only country that is going to be starting to use x—rays and mri.
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there is a long history of it. what if somebody _ there is a long history of it. what if somebody refuses _ there is a long history of it. what if somebody refuses to have - there is a long history of it. what if somebody refuses to have the mri or the x—ray should that be a presumption that indeed, they are adults? ~ . . presumption that indeed, they are adults? ~ ., ., adults? well, again, the report considered _ adults? well, again, the report considered this _ adults? well, again, the report considered this in _ adults? well, again, the report considered this in detail - adults? well, again, the report considered this in detail and i adults? well, again, the report considered this in detail and it| adults? well, again, the report. considered this in detail and it was quite clear that you should not draw the negative inference that they are likely to be over age just because they refuse consent. there are lots of reasons why they might refuse consent. they are likely to have been traumatised by theirjourney, they will have met officialdom all they will have met officialdom all the way across telling them to do this, do that, they probably have an unclear understanding of exactly what the process is. it is becoming cleartonight _ what the process is. it is becoming clear tonight the _ what the process is. it is becoming clear tonight the government - what the process is. it is becoming clear tonight the government is . what the process is. it is becoming i clear tonight the government is more likely to make that inference, do you think that is a real concern for your committee?— you think that is a real concern for your committee? well, the committee has reported — your committee? well, the committee has reported what _ your committee? well, the committee has reported what the _ your committee? well, the committee has reported what the government i has reported what the government chooses to do with that report is in a sense up to them. i think riding roughshod with the idea of consent would be a retrograde step. what
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roughshod with the idea of consent would be a retrograde step. what is in a sense. — would be a retrograde step. what is in a sense. is— would be a retrograde step. what is in a sense, is the _ would be a retrograde step. what is in a sense, is the question, - would be a retrograde step. what is in a sense, is the question, is i would be a retrograde step. what is in a sense, is the question, is this l in a sense, is the question, is this person over 18 or under 18 impossible to determine by an x—ray whether somebody is the age that they claim or not? but is the question, is the claimed age possible in your view? that question, is the claimed age possible in your view? that is very much the way _ possible in your view? that is very much the way that _ possible in your view? that is very much the way that the committee | much the way that the committee viewed the process. all the methods used, interviews or x—rays or mris, they were extremely inaccurate in detail. 0ne they were extremely inaccurate in detail. one only has to think of the timing in puberty in individuals which dictates when your wrist scans become mature and that ranges over five years. so the idea you can use that to make a precise statement about age is clearly ludicrous. so all you can do is ask a much more general question, which is, as you
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say, the individual when they have arrived in this country being asked how old they are and that is their claimed age. and the purpose of all these exercises is to ask the question, is that claimed age feasible? �* ., question, is that claimed age feasible? . ., , , feasible? and of course, it is perfectly _ feasible? and of course, it is perfectly reasonable - feasible? and of course, it is perfectly reasonable that i feasible? and of course, it is i perfectly reasonable that people feasible? and of course, it is - perfectly reasonable that people are entering the uk and should be checked, these things are done in every single country and it's important for lots of different reasons. but you talk about puberty. what other considerations could there be, malnutrition? 0therthings that will determine what would be shown up on the mri or the x—ray? the mri and the x—ray won't give you a measure of nutrition or deprivation. but they will affect the timing of the changes in the bone or teeth you are looking for. and those just add to the uncertainty of the entire process. and coupled with that, the
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references that are used to decide what age corresponds to a given stage, they are based on individuals from countries who don't provide asylum seekers coming to this country, so they tend to be europeans or americans. and there are very few studies done in afghanistan for example syria. professor, thank you very much indeed. nick, you have more on this indeed. nick, you have more on this in the last couple of minutes. i have just heard it looks like the government might be tabling what had been described to me as useful amendments on safe and legal routes. some of these are yet still to be agreed. tim lawton the former children's minister has been pushing for these, children's minister has been pushing forthese, he children's minister has been pushing for these, he says it's important to offer sanctuary to those in need and if you do that, you strengthen your hand in rejecting what he calls bogus claimants. his big demand he is asked for is the legislation should set out specific, safe and legal routes. he wants to set in law those we already have from afghanistan, syria, ukraine and hong
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kong and then to have additionality. so for example, he has cited you have a 16—year—old orphan from east africa, they should have a safe route to come here. he doesn't know whether he has got that, but we think we are looking at that sort of area. you think there will be a fight? this is what we think the movement from the government might be tomorrow in this area. thank movement from the government might be tomorrow in this area.— be tomorrow in this area. thank you very much. — be tomorrow in this area. thank you very much. nick- — over the past six months, newsnight has investigating failings at university hospitals birmingham nhs foundation trust. soon after concerns were raised by patients and clinicians around culture and patient safety — concerns documented by newsnight — the care quality commission carried out an urgent, unnannouced inspection in december into medical care services at good hope hospital. these services were already rated "requires improvement." today, the cqc report into uhb trust endorsed that rating. but served the trust with a warning notice, as it needs to make significant and immediate improvements to its staffing levels in medical care. here's david in birmingham.
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a newsnight investigation reveals a culture of fear in one of england's biggest hospital trusts. when newsnight broadcast our investigation into uhb and what we were told was a toxic culture that compromised patient safety, it triggered three internal reviews by nhs england. but we now know that something else happened as well. the care quality commission, in charge of making sure that health care in england is safe, sprung an urgent, unannounced inspection on two of uhb's hospitals. as a result, they've been issued with a warning. at good hope hospital, they found there were not enough staff to care for patients and keep them safe, and that the culture of the service had deteriorated and morale among staff was noticeably low. at birmingham heartlands hospital, they found that they did not always manage medicines well, medications were not always administered at times that had been prescribed, and that lessons learned from incidents were not always shared with the wider team.
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cqc served the trust with a warning notice and told them that they needed to make significant improvements to improve the care and treatment the patient received. we will continue to work closely with the trust to make sure that those improvements are made and the trust have already started making some of those improvements to improve patient care. but, you know, local people should be reassured that the trust are working really hard to ensure that patients receive appropriate care and treatment. the question we wanted to ask the cqc, and they told us no one was available for a newsnight interview, was whether regulators had missed opportunities in the past to uncover what was happening at uhb. as newsnight has previously reported, there have been numerous warnings to regulators about both the workplace culture and patient safety concerns. look, i just want to thank everybody for coming today...
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ravi subramanian is the regional general secretary of the trade union unison. he was approached by so many clinicians telling him of patient safety and bullying problems at uhb that he compiled a confidential report which he sent to the cqc injuly of 2021. it baffles me why it's taken the cqc so long to come to this conclusion, because they had a report from us injuly �*21 that quite clearly outlined the concerns around patient care and the bullying culture. they did an inspection around that time and they actually said to us, "we will take your report into account." and they clearly didn't. so the question for me is like, what were the cqc doing? why did they miss it? and they've not said that in this report here. they've not said why they missed it and somebody needs to ask them that question. so where does this cqc report leave the three internal local nhs reviews of uhb? the first by professor michael buick into patient safety has already reported.
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it said that although the trust had serious problems with culture, care was safe. but now the cqc has said that there are significant and serious safety issues. i'd just like to dig into the meat of the report a little bit. i'm looking at... rosie sexton is a local councillor who's attempted to get answers from the trust and the local nhs. she says local investigations might not now be enough to restore confidence among patients and staff. i mean, it's been very clear to me that one of the main priorities of the leadership involved has been to maintain the public�*s confidence in the services. and i do, i agree that that is really important, but i also want that to be based in reality. and at the moment, ijust don't quite have that confidence that it is. the thing that was originally being asked for by some of these whistle—blowers was an independent judge—led inquiry. so for somebody to come in from outside of the health service. it's notjust about making
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sure it's independent. it's about being seen to be independent. and that's important because it has to carry the confidence of the staff, of the whistle—blowers and of the public. university hospitals birmingham is one of the worst—performing trusts in england. it has clearly had serious problems for some time. uhb told us they fully accepted the cqc�*s report and were already working hard to address the issues raised by the inspection, including the shortage of staff, which they said was a common problem across the nhs. you'll have probably heard today that inflation remains stubbornly over 10%, against predictions, and despite regular interest rate hikes, because prices are stubbornly high, that affects poorer housholds disproportionately. despite the fall in wholesale prices, food on the supermarket shelves is rising at its fastest rate in 45 years. milk up 38%, eggs 28%, broccoli 32%.
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tonight we are going to try to unpick why inflation here is higher than in the eurozone and in the us and by some distance. here's ben with his global tracker. in march, the headline rate of inflation came down. but look, it remained above 10%. you'll probably have heard a lot of commentary about that today. but what we're going to do on newsnight is look at this issue through our global tracker lens. so let's see how the uk compares to other big economies on the rate of price rises. in germany, inflation in march was 7.8%. in italy, it was 8.1%. in france, it was 6.7%. in the us, it was just 5%. so all back in single figures, unlike the uk, and as you can see, inflation has been coming down more rapidly in these economies. so why? 0ne element of today's uk inflation figures that has raised concern is food price inflation. that rose to 19.2% in march, the highest on record. so is that the reason the uk
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is doing worse than other countries on headline inflation? well, look at food inflation in other big economies. it's substantially lower in the us, 8.5%. but it's been rising at a not dissimilar rate in other european countries. it's actually higher in germany, around 23%, the blue line. economists say relative food prices aren't therefore a big driver of the uk divergence on headline inflation. where there is a major gap between the uk and other peer economies, is in energy price inflation. here's annual energy inflation in the uk, around 40% still. and here's the other countries. as you can see, much lower. economists say that it's this factor, energy, which explains most of the gap between the uk headline rate of inflation and that of other big economies. the difference with the big eu economies lies in the design of the uk support for domestic energy users, the price cap,
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which in a nutshell means it will take longer for last year's huge wholesale price spikes to fall out of headline inflation measures here. yet, food and energy are often volatile, which is why economists say that what really matters for a country's outlook on inflation is what's happening to core prices. so that's inflation stripping out energy and food. so let's look at the uk's relative performance here. in the uk core inflation is around 5.7%. as you can see that's actually broadly in line with the other countries. though some economists have expressed concern that a combination of brexit, making it more difficult to import goods from our main trading partners on the continent, and also the outside scarring impact of the pandemic on the british labour market might make the uk inflation rate stickier in coming down than in other countries. the uk really stands out in terms of having seen a big fall in labour market participation since the pandemic. so that's making the labour market tighter. that's making wages go up even faster relative to other countries.
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but the big thing that's going on here is basically higher energy prices, a higher price is feeding through the supply chain to goods price as well. and that's been the kind of key driver of inflation. we shall see. the picture is, in truth, unclear. if this is all about energy, there's good reason to believe the inflation gap between the uk and other countries will fall away quite rapidly. but if it's those other factors, brexit and covid, it will persist. what we do know is that rishi sunak and jeremy hunt have pledged to cut uk inflation in half this year. if uk inflation does prove stickier than elsewhere on the way down, that's going to be economically painfulfor all of us. i'm joined by kitty ussher from the institute of directors. she was a treasury minister in gordon brown's government. i'm also joined by the economist
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ann pettifor and by sushil wadhwani, a former member of the bank of england's monetary policy committee and currently a member of chancellorjeremy hunt's economic advisory panel. good evening to all of you. let's talk about this issue of food and energy. sushil, where do you think the base because of inflation is at the base because of inflation is at the moment?— the base because of inflation is at the moment? ., , , ., the moment? clearly everything that has already been _ the moment? clearly everything that has already been said _ the moment? clearly everything that has already been said on _ the moment? clearly everything that has already been said on the - has already been said on the programme i think did a very good job of providing the approximate reason as to why headline inflation rates are higher than elsewhere. actually if one does the basic arithmetic one has very little doubt that inflation will now fall pretty significantly by the end of the year, just because some of the things that went up a lot last year
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are unlikely to be going up again, and just three simple arithmetic the rate of inflation will fall. so my concerns are not about uk inflation not going down by half this year, my concerns are about inflation in 2024 and beyond, and that is because wage inflation in the uk still remains stubbornly high in an international context. if you look for example at the us, wage inflation has come down from five points 5.75% a year ago to about 4%, while rage inflation in the uk is still between six and 7% having only come down a little bit. ultimately it is this mystically generated inflation which will drive
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inflation in 24 and 25 and will therefore need higher interest rates to bring inflation back to target. ann, high interest rates, where is inflation hitting hardest of the moment? this may be the idea that it will be halved by the end of the year but we have a situation where we have substantial price hikes, no sign of the prices coming down, and we have problems with our energy market. �* . , we have problems with our energy market. . ., , ., we have problems with our energy market. ~ ., , ., ., market. and wages are negative. talkin: market. and wages are negative. talking about _ market. and wages are negative. talking about wage _ market. and wages are negative. talking about wage price - market. and wages are negative. | talking about wage price inflation when _ talking about wage price inflation when we — talking about wage price inflation when we are living through the longest— when we are living through the longest wage squeeze in 200 years. people's _ longest wage squeeze in 200 years. people's wages are below the level of inflation, they are being cut by the day — of inflation, they are being cut by the day i— of inflation, they are being cut by the day. i really think that is what is wrong — the day. i really think that is what is wrong with the way the bank of england _ is wrong with the way the bank of england is— is wrong with the way the bank of england is approaching this. but in fact prices— england is approaching this. but in fact prices are rising, as you say, they— fact prices are rising, as you say, they are — fact prices are rising, as you say, they are going up and up, especially food prices — they are going up and up, especially food prices by much more than 10% and by— food prices by much more than 10% and by the — food prices by much more than 10% and by the way the economists assured — and by the way the economists assured us that inflation was going
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to have _ assured us that inflation was going to have turned down today, so this prediction— to have turned down today, so this prediction that it will drop very perceptively in the next week or so, one has— perceptively in the next week or so, one has to _ perceptively in the next week or so, one has to be a bit guarded about that _ one has to be a bit guarded about that the — one has to be a bit guarded about that. the fact is wages are cut, people — that. the fact is wages are cut, people are _ that. the fact is wages are cut, people are finding they are spending their household spending in real terms _ their household spending in real terms declining, and that is contracting the economy, the reason why we _ contracting the economy, the reason why we are _ contracting the economy, the reason why we are still lagging behind our 67m _ why we are still lagging behind our g7... �* ., ., why we are still lagging behind our g7... but we also have a completely different labour _ g7... but we also have a completely different labour market _ g7... but we also have a completely different labour market it _ g7... but we also have a completely different labour market it seems i g7... but we also have a completely different labour market it seems in l different labour market it seems in other countries. irate different labour market it seems in other countries.— different labour market it seems in other countries. we have an increase of population — other countries. we have an increase of population of— other countries. we have an increase of population of about _ other countries. we have an increase of population of about half _ other countries. we have an increase of population of about half a - of population of about half a million — of population of about half a million but those people, the people in work— million but those people, the people in work since 2019 has stayed more or less _ in work since 2019 has stayed more or less static. there are half—million people increased population but those haven't come back to _ population but those haven't come back to work, so we have a problem, yes, but— back to work, so we have a problem, yes, but what— back to work, so we have a problem, yes, but what are the reasons for that? _ yes, but what are the reasons for that? sickness, low pay, high rent,
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insecurity — that? sickness, low pay, high rent, insecurity. but that? sickness, low pay, high rent, insecuri . �* , ., insecurity. but kitty, on the possibility _ insecurity. but kitty, on the possibility of _ insecurity. but kitty, on the possibility of another - insecurity. but kitty, on the possibility of another hike l insecurity. but kitty, on the| possibility of another hike in interest rates, to try at least in the next three months to bring inflation down, that has massive problems as well, hasn't it, because if you are renting, someone on low income living on credit card debt, if you have a mortgage, if you are a business trying to invest, they can't afford more interest rate hikes in order to try and dampen inflation. , , ., ., , inflation. everything you have 'ust said is toiauy fl inflation. everything you have 'ust said is totally correct i inflation. everything you have 'ust said is totally correct which i inflation. everything you have 'ust said is totally correct which is i said is totally correct which is why the bank— said is totally correct which is why the bank of— said is totally correct which is why the bank of england _ said is totally correct which is why the bank of england is— said is totally correct which is why. the bank of england is independent of government _ the bank of england is independent of government and _ the bank of england is independent of government and given _ the bank of england is independent of government and given a - the bank of england is independent of government and given a very- the bank of england is independent. of government and given a very clear mandate _ of government and given a very clear mandate which — of government and given a very clear mandate which is _ of government and given a very clear mandate which is to _ of government and given a very clear mandate which is to focus _ of government and given a very clear mandate which is to focus on - mandate which is to focus on inflation _ mandate which is to focus on inflation. and _ mandate which is to focus on inflation. and with _ mandate which is to focus on inflation. and with inflation. mandate which is to focus on i inflation. and with inflation higher inflation. and with inflation higher in today's— inflation. and with inflation higher in today's data _ inflation. and with inflation higher in today's data than _ inflation. and with inflation higher in today's data than was _ inflation. and with inflation higher| in today's data than was expected, and i_ in today's data than was expected, and i take — in today's data than was expected, and i take the— in today's data than was expected, and i take the view— in today's data than was expected, and i take the view that _ in today's data than was expected, and i take the view that was - and i take the view that was actually— and i take the view that was actually due _ and i take the view that was actually due to _ and i take the view that was actually due to the - and i take the view that was actually due to the fact i and i take the view that was actually due to the fact that| and i take the view that was - actually due to the fact that demand is much _ actually due to the fact that demand is much better— actually due to the fact that demand is much better in— actually due to the fact that demand is much better in the _ actually due to the fact that demand is much better in the economy- actually due to the fact that demand is much better in the economy thanl is much better in the economy than they had _ is much better in the economy than they had previously— is much better in the economy than they had previously forecast, - is much better in the economy than they had previously forecast, so i they had previously forecast, so there's— they had previously forecast, so there's actually— they had previously forecast, so there's actually quite _ they had previously forecast, so there's actually quite a - they had previously forecast, so there's actually quite a good i they had previously forecast, so i there's actually quite a good reason for the _ there's actually quite a good reason for the negative _ there's actually quite a good reason for the negative outcome _ there's actually quite a good reason for the negative outcome of- there's actually quite a good reason for the negative outcome of high i for the negative outcome of high inflation, — for the negative outcome of high inflation, they— for the negative outcome of high
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inflation, they are _ for the negative outcome of high inflation, they are therefore i for the negative outcome of high . inflation, they are therefore purely focused _ inflation, they are therefore purely focused on — inflation, they are therefore purely focused on inflation _ inflation, they are therefore purely focused on inflation because - inflation, they are therefore purely focused on inflation because it i focused on inflation because it makes — focused on inflation because it makes us _ focused on inflation because it makes us all— focused on inflation because it makes us all poorer _ focused on inflation because it makes us all poorer and - focused on inflation because it i makes us all poorer and so inflation makes _ makes us all poorer and so inflation makes us _ makes us all poorer and so inflation makes us poorer— makes us all poorer and so inflation makes us poorer so _ makes us all poorer and so inflation makes us poorer so it— makes us all poorer and so inflation makes us poorer so it is— makes us all poorer and so inflation makes us poorer so it is the - makes us all poorer and so inflation makes us poorer so it is the least. makes us poorer so it is the least worst— makes us poorer so it is the least worst option _ makes us poorer so it is the least worst option. but— makes us poorer so it is the least worst option-— worst option. but is it? because between the _ worst option. but is it? because between the devil _ worst option. but is it? because between the devil and _ worst option. but is it? because between the devil and did i worst option. but is it? because between the devil and did we i worst option. but is it? because. between the devil and did we see worst option. but is it? because i between the devil and did we see it is at the moment. it is between the devil and did we see it is at the moment.— is at the moment. it is incredibly difficult which _ is at the moment. it is incredibly difficult which is _ is at the moment. it is incredibly difficult which is why _ is at the moment. it is incredibly difficult which is why there - is at the moment. it is incredibly| difficult which is why there needs to be, _ difficult which is why there needs to be, from — difficult which is why there needs to be, from a _ difficult which is why there needs to be, from a rather— difficult which is why there needs to be, from a rather purest- difficult which is why there needs to be, from a rather purest mayl difficult which is why there needs l to be, from a rather purest may be but public — to be, from a rather purest may be but public policy _ to be, from a rather purest may be but public policy point _ to be, from a rather purest may be but public policy point of _ to be, from a rather purest may be but public policy point of view, - to be, from a rather purest may be but public policy point of view, the | but public policy point of view, the bank_ but public policy point of view, the bank of— but public policy point of view, the bank of england _ but public policy point of view, the bank of england needs _ but public policy point of view, the bank of england needs to - but public policy point of view, the bank of england needs to be - bank of england needs to be independent _ bank of england needs to be independent and _ bank of england needs to be independent and to - bank of england needs to be independent and to have - bank of england needs to bei independent and to have that bank of england needs to be - independent and to have that very pure mandate _ independent and to have that very pure mandate. one _ independent and to have that very pure mandate. one little - independent and to have that very pure mandate. one little thing, i independent and to have that very pure mandate. one little thing, at the institute — pure mandate. one little thing, at the institute of— pure mandate. one little thing, at the institute of directors - pure mandate. one little thing, at the institute of directors we - pure mandate. one little thing, at the institute of directors we serve| the institute of directors we serve members — the institute of directors we serve members all— the institute of directors we serve members all of— the institute of directors we serve members all of the _ the institute of directors we serve members all of the time - the institute of directors we serve members all of the time saying i the institute of directors we serve i members all of the time saying what are you _ members all of the time saying what are you more — members all of the time saying what are you more worried _ members all of the time saying what are you more worried about, - members all of the time saying what are you more worried about, and i are you more worried about, and there _ are you more worried about, and there is— are you more worried about, and there is a — are you more worried about, and there is a lot _ are you more worried about, and there is a lot of— are you more worried about, and there is a lot of people _ are you more worried about, and there is a lot of people running l there is a lot of people running busihesses _ there is a lot of people running businesses who are _ there is a lot of people running businesses who are obviously i there is a lot of people running - businesses who are obviously deeply concerned _ businesses who are obviously deeply concerned about— businesses who are obviously deeply concerned about rising _ businesses who are obviously deeply concerned about rising interest- concerned about rising interest rates _ concerned about rising interest rates but — concerned about rising interest rates but at _ concerned about rising interest rates but at the _ concerned about rising interest rates but at the moment - concerned about rising interest rates but at the moment there | concerned about rising interest. rates but at the moment there are more _ rates but at the moment there are more people — rates but at the moment there are more people running _ rates but at the moment there are more people running businesses. more people running businesses worried — more people running businesses worried about _ more people running businesses worried about high _ more people running businesses worried about high inflation i more people running businesses worried about high inflation and| more people running businesses. worried about high inflation and so unusually— worried about high inflation and so unusually therefore _ worried about high inflation and so unusually therefore for _ worried about high inflation and so unusually therefore for a _ worried about high inflation and so unusually therefore for a businessl unusually therefore for a business group _ unusually therefore for a business group we — unusually therefore for a business group we do — unusually therefore for a business group we do think— unusually therefore for a business group we do think the _ unusually therefore for a business group we do think the bank of- group we do think the bank of england — group we do think the bank of england needs _ group we do think the bank of england needs to _ group we do think the bank of england needs to keep - group we do think the bank of england needs to keep raising group we do think the bank of- england needs to keep raising rates to bring _ england needs to keep raising rates to bring inflation— england needs to keep raising rates to bring inflation down. _ the bank of england has raised rates
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ten times in the last year and it has not brought inflation down. so really, it is the wrong tool. let me ask sushil. is it the wrong tool to keep bringing interest rates up at the rate they are going up at the moment to carry on on that trajectory?— moment to carry on on that trajectory? well, ifi can 'ust . uickl trajectory? well, ifi can 'ust quickly react i trajectory? well, ifi can 'ust quickly react and i trajectory? well, ifi can 'ust quickly react and say i trajectory? well, ifi canjust quickly react and say two i trajectory? well, ifi canjustl quickly react and say two very important things. the first thing is, i important things. the first thing is, i don't — important things. the first thing is, i don't think there is much choice — is, i don't think there is much choice about bringing inflation dowm — choice about bringing inflation down. the lesson we learnt in the 1970s— down. the lesson we learnt in the 1970s and — down. the lesson we learnt in the 1970s and '80s in this country was that if— 1970s and '80s in this country was that if you — 1970s and '80s in this country was that if you allow inflation to remain— that if you allow inflation to remain high and volatile, then that is actually— remain high and volatile, then that is actually the enemy ofjobs, it is the enemy— is actually the enemy ofjobs, it is the enemy of investment and it actually— the enemy of investment and it actually hurts the poor people that ann actually hurts the poor people that arm is— actually hurts the poor people that arm is so— actually hurts the poor people that ann is so keen to protect. so there is no _ ann is so keen to protect. so there is no choice — ann is so keen to protect. so there is no choice in this matter. the fact— is no choice in this matter. the fact that — is no choice in this matter. the fact that all _ is no choice in this matter. the fact that all these commodity prices went up— fact that all these commodity prices went up meant that our living standards had to go down. now, we
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can essentially achieve either a sensible — can essentially achieve either a sensible outcome where everyone accepts _ sensible outcome where everyone accepts moderate wage increases and moderate _ accepts moderate wage increases and moderate profit margins and we achieve — moderate profit margins and we achieve a — moderate profit margins and we achieve a reduction in inflation without— achieve a reduction in inflation without much of a rise in unemployment or weak, as a society, try and _ unemployment or weak, as a society, try and bargain for higher profit margins — try and bargain for higher profit margins and higher wages and you then end _ margins and higher wages and you then end up with a much more painful way of— then end up with a much more painful way of bringing inflation down —— we as a society — way of bringing inflation down —— we as a society. but there is no choice whatsoever— as a society. but there is no choice whatsoever in terms of bringing ihftatioh — whatsoever in terms of bringing inflation down. and in terms of ann saying _ inflation down. and in terms of ann saying interest rates have gone up ten times— saying interest rates have gone up ten times and inflation hasn't gone dow“, _ ten times and inflation hasn't gone dowm i_ ten times and inflation hasn't gone dowm i am — ten times and inflation hasn't gone down, i am sure she well recognises there _ down, i am sure she well recognises there are _ down, i am sure she well recognises there are time lags. typically, you expect— there are time lags. typically, you expect a _ there are time lags. typically, you expect a time lag of about two years between _ expect a time lag of about two years between a _ expect a time lag of about two years between a rise in interest rates and inflation _ between a rise in interest rates and inflation coming down. and moreover, interest— inflation coming down. and moreover, interest rate _ inflation coming down. and moreover, interest rate started at a remarkably low level, so they were
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highly _ remarkably low level, so they were highly negative in real terms. kitty. — highly negative in real terms. kitty, what ann pettifor is saying is we have to have improvements in health care to get people back into the labour market. so that means investment in the health service. exponential investment in the health service. we need to get an expansion of the labour market, we need to grow our workers and we are not doing that. i grow our workers and we are not doing that-— grow our workers and we are not doing that. i would agree with all of that. doing that. i would agree with all of that the _ doing that. i would agree with all of that. the particular _ doing that. i would agree with all of that. the particular issue i doing that. i would agree with all| of that. the particular issue about britain _ of that. the particular issue about britain at — of that. the particular issue about britain at the _ of that. the particular issue about britain at the moment _ of that. the particular issue about britain at the moment is - of that. the particular issue about britain at the moment is we - of that. the particular issue about britain at the moment is we have | of that. the particular issue about . britain at the moment is we have an extraordinarily— britain at the moment is we have an extraordinarily tight _ britain at the moment is we have an extraordinarily tight labour- britain at the moment is we have an extraordinarily tight labour market. i extraordinarily tight labour market. now, _ extraordinarily tight labour market. now. that — extraordinarily tight labour market. now. that is — extraordinarily tight labour market. now, that is good _ extraordinarily tight labour market. now, that is good news _ extraordinarily tight labour market. now, that is good news because i extraordinarily tight labour market. now, that is good news because iti now, that is good news because it means— now, that is good news because it means people _ now, that is good news because it means people are _ now, that is good news because it means people are able _ now, that is good news because it means people are able to - now, that is good news because it means people are able to work i now, that is good news because iti means people are able to work and they are _ means people are able to work and they are able — means people are able to work and they are able to _ means people are able to work and they are able to attempt _ means people are able to work and they are able to attempt to - means people are able to work and they are able to attempt to cover. they are able to attempt to cover househotd — they are able to attempt to cover household cost _ they are able to attempt to cover household cost even _ they are able to attempt to cover household cost even if _ they are able to attempt to cover household cost even if real- they are able to attempt to cover. household cost even if real wages, as ann _ household cost even if real wages, as ann has — household cost even if real wages, as ann hasiust_ household cost even if real wages, as ann hasjust said, _ household cost even if real wages, as ann hasjust said, falling - household cost even if real wages, as ann hasjust said, falling by- household cost even if real wages, as ann hasjust said, falling by a l as ann hasjust said, falling by a few percentage _ as ann hasjust said, falling by a few percentage points. - as ann hasjust said, falling by a few percentage points. the i few percentage points. the government— few percentage points. the government has, _ few percentage points. the government has, i- few percentage points. the government has, i don't. few percentage points. the i government has, i don't speak few percentage points. the - government has, i don't speak for the government, _ government has, i don't speak for the government, but— government has, i don't speak for the government, but they - government has, i don't speak for the government, but they have i the government, but they have announced _ the government, but they have announced an _ the government, but they have announced an enormous - the government, but they have l announced an enormous increase the government, but they have i announced an enormous increase in child care _ announced an enormous increase in child care funding _ announced an enormous increase in child care funding in— announced an enormous increase in child care funding in a _ announced an enormous increase in child care funding in a deliberate i child care funding in a deliberate attempt — child care funding in a deliberate attempt to— child care funding in a deliberate attempt to try _ child care funding in a deliberate attempt to try and _ child care funding in a deliberate attempt to try and grow-
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child care funding in a deliberate attempt to try and grow the i child care funding in a deliberate . attempt to try and grow the labour force _ attempt to try and grow the labour force. , , , a , ., ., force. just very quickly, all of ou, do force. just very quickly, all of you. do you _ force. just very quickly, all of you, do you think— force. just very quickly, all of you, do you think inflation i force. just very quickly, all of| you, do you think inflation will force. just very quickly, all of- you, do you think inflation will be down by half by the end of the year? i think it still can become yes. i i think it still can become yes. i am i think it still can become yes. am not entirely confident i think it still can become yes]. am not entirely confident because i think it still can become yes]- am not entirely confident because i don't think we are looking at what is causing the inflation but we are looking at the wrong cause. irate is causing the inflation but we are looking at the wrong cause. we know ou think it looking at the wrong cause. we know you think it will _ looking at the wrong cause. we know you think it will be _ looking at the wrong cause. we know you think it will be down _ looking at the wrong cause. we know you think it will be down by _ looking at the wrong cause. we know you think it will be down by half- looking at the wrong cause. we know you think it will be down by half by i you think it will be down by half by the end of the year, sushil. thank you very much, i had to stop you, thank you very much indeed. hong kong's civil society has been decimated by a beijing—imposed security law that has all but silenced the political opposition. 47 of the city's best—known critics are facing possible life in prison, after being charged with conspiracy to subvert the state. they took part in an unofficial election, and they faced more than two years in detention, before their trial has even begun. in 2019, the former british colony saw back—to—back street demonstrations, in which thousands took to the streets to fight against greater control from beijing. newsnight has been filming with one
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of the last groups in hong kong that dares to protest. danny vincent reports. power to the people! universal suffrage now! "power to the people!", these hong kong protesters chant. since the introduction of a wide—ranging national security law in 2020... ..critics say hong kong's political freedoms have been eroded. get your hands in the air... go, go. keep going, keep going. it's become part of a modern authoritarian state. universal suffrage now! part of the surveillance state. power to the people! at the centre is the national security police. one of the group is chan po—ying. she's become a rare face of protest
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since the law was imposed. she defies the police and speaks out. po—ying is one of the last street demonstrators in hong kong. for decades, her group of activists have challenged the authorities. now she's convinced she's under surveillance. translation: surveillance has become more severe i for front—line social activists. in the past, the police didn't pay much attention to us. now, both plainclothes and uniformed police surround us. they even set up cameras and recorders when we set up. it's psychologically intimidating. you never know when it could be used as evidence against you. po—ying's husband is known as long hair — a veteran and rebellious activist.
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he's been detained for two years, under national security charges. his trial has just begun. he is one of 47 pro—democracy advocates on trial for taking part in an unofficial election. they include scholars like benny tai, lawmakers like claudia mo, and activists such asjoshua wong. the trial marks the biggest crackdown since the introduction of the national security law. if found guilty, they face possible life in prison. despite the threat of imprisonment, some protesters are determined to challenge the restrictions. translation: we are trying our best to create more spaces to protest. i the red lines are still very vague. for example, the law of inciting subversion, we don't know to what extent we may have already crossed that red line. so we try our best to speak out until, one day, we may have to stop. civil society has
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almost been paralysed. those left are waiting to see what the next steps might be. phu is a former lawmaker and street activist. critics say the national security law is intentionally vague. as a precaution, we've blurred the words on his banner. translation: it's unlawful to - display banners like this one today. furthermore, the hong kong government doesn't admit these are political prisoners. if you call them political prisoners, it's possibly violating the national security law. in 2020, beijing imposed a national security law on hong kong. it effectively criminalised dissent.
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today, the majority of the political activists in this city have either

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