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tv   BBC News  BBC News  April 20, 2023 1:45pm-2:00pm BST

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terms of inquiry, five months, the terms of reference did say that this report should be done expediently. why do you think it has taken so long? i think it has been said that they have been a couple of iterations going back and forth. it does involve a certain amount of time. but there is a suspicion that ministers keep these things in the long grass, but the day has come, the results have come back and now rishi sunak has to do something decisive and quite painfulfor him because dominic raab is a very staunch supporter of his leadership campaign. ithink staunch supporter of his leadership campaign. i think it is the interest of the government here. i think rishi sunak is not in a particular strong place himself. he was the right—hand man to borisjohnson, he broke the law, he too was dealing just like he appointed suella
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braverman who just a few weeks ago broke ministerial conduct. and there are questions now about, for example, whether he deferred his interests to parliament. so he needs to get a clean break. but really there is not a clean break to be had. but he doesn't... if he doesn't do what he can to show on this occasion that he is different to borisjohnson, who the viewers will remember, borisjohnson reviewed the report of priti patel�*s conduct and he ignored it, with great repercussions this is his test to show he is not like borisjohnson. and it will be very interesting to see how he does.— and it will be very interesting to see how he does. thank you very much. see how he does. thank you very much- it's _ see how he does. thank you very much- it's very — see how he does. thank you very much. it's very useful— see how he does. thank you very much. it's very useful to - see how he does. thank you very much. it's very useful to get - see how he does. thank you very much. it's very useful to get thatj much. it's very useful to get that context and meaning about why this is so important. thank you for your time today. we can now go to our
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chief political correspondent to find out if there are any new lines coming in, what is the latest? still waitin: , is coming in, what is the latest? still waiting. is the _ coming in, what is the latest? sit ll waiting, is the honest answer. i'm told prime minister once to carefully consider the report into those bullying allegations against dominic raab, he has had it since this morning, we don't know for sure how long it is going to take to make a decision, but the fact it has been considered carefully suggests to me rishi sunak doesn't want to rush this. it's also worth bearing in mind that this investigation did take five months, there is a lot in it, there were eight different formal complaints and far more people involved in giving evidence, some of them in favour of those complaints, some of them against, who i suspect rishi sunak is quite a lot of material to weigh up, we don't know that the show, but given the length of the investigation, it seems a safe bet to me. but he does
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have a big decision to make about what he does with his deputy, with the man who was by his side throughout the leadership campaign for the conservative party leadership. there are a lot of people in this postcode, westminster, in parliament, who think that the fact that there were so many complaints, the fact that some of the testimony which has emerged in public has been so critical that it will be very hard for rishi sunak to hold onto mr raab, that he will eventually have to let go of him. others make the argument that dominic raab might be argument that dominic raab might be a difficult man, may be a pretty tricky boss at times but that he is not a bully. that is what rishi sunak is weighing up, he will be going over the evidence that is being curated by adam tolley, the lawyer who is responsible for the investigation, ultimately, though, this is rishi sunak�*s call, he has got to decide what he does and whether dominic raab stays in a job or not.
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whether dominic raab stays in a “ob or not. �* . ~ whether dominic raab stays in a “ob or not. �* a _, whether dominic raab stays in a “ob ornot. �* whether dominic raab stays in a “ob ornot.�* ., or not. and, neck, could you paint a icture or not. and, neck, could you paint a picture for — or not. and, neck, could you paint a picture for us _ or not. and, neck, could you paint a picture for us of _ or not. and, neck, could you paint a picture for us of what _ or not. and, neck, could you paint a picture for us of what must - or not. and, neck, could you paint a picture for us of what must be - or not. and, neck, could you paint a picture for us of what must be going on in downing street now? as you mentioned, this is a difficult choice that rishi sunak is to make and opinion appears to have been divided already. a former minister jacob rees—mogg characterised to some of these allegations as snowflake —like. one of the problems here is that bullying is seen as quite a subjective matter, with some people calling him simply a demanding boss. so is rishi sunak going to have to take those attitudes into consideration when or will he solely be looking at the results of the inquiry? i5 will he solely be looking at the results of the inquiry? is worth ”ointin results of the inquiry? is worth pointing out — results of the inquiry? is worth pointing out that _ results of the inquiry? is worth pointing out that the _ results of the inquiry? is worth pointing out that the inquiry i results of the inquiry? is worth | pointing out that the inquiry was results of the inquiry? is worth i pointing out that the inquiry was a fact—finding mission, so it's not thejob fact—finding mission, so it's not the job of the lawyer who is looking into all of this to say, he has a bully, he is not a bully, this is what you should do, this is what you shouldn't do. in fact, the reason why there is a lawyer looking into this is because at the time, back in november when this probe was launched, rishi sunak didn't have an ethics adviser, the man who would
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normally look into the sort of thing and can't deliver far more damning conclusions on minister's behaviour. so, look, you're absolutely right, rishi sunak does have to weigh up his different opinions within his own party, there are those who say, look, dominic raab was a difficult person, maybe, but not a bully, there are others who think that this is pretty damning and has been pretty difficult for mr raab to stay in hisjob. i think one of the things christian act will have forefront in his mind is that the speech he gave outside downing street when he was prime minister, he set himself a high bar, talked about integrity and accountability being bywords for his government. you basically set himself a pretty high bar for you basically set himself a pretty high barfor good ministerial high bar for good ministerial behaviour. high barfor good ministerial behaviour. you might remember that not long after rishi sunak became prime minister, gavin williamson,
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minister without portfolio in the cabinet at the time, he had to resign because a slew of bullying allegations against him. nadhim zahawi, the tory chairman, he had to just like he was sacked, i beg your pardon, because he didn't declare that he had paid a tax bill when he was chancellor, he bade that to hmrc, extremely controversial because it didn't tell the prime minister and he seems to have broken the ministerial code as a result. so integrity is something that rishi sunak is going to have to test for himself and because of that whatever decision he makes will bejudged against those words that he delivered outside downing street. i think that makes it hard to see how, if there is damning evidence against dominic raab, it makes it hard to see how he could just dismiss that and allow mr raab to stay in a job. but, the other thing he has to weigh up but, the other thing he has to weigh up is how close the relationship is,
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the fact that mr raab is deputy minister mike, the fact that mr raab is deputy ministermike, he the fact that mr raab is deputy minister mike, he is an extremely importantjob in government, the man who fills in for rishi sunak when he is not as prime minister's questions on a wednesday afternoon. a really, really big call, really big moment for rishi sunak, a really big moment for rishi sunak, a really big moment for as government. ayes—mac thank you very much. thank you. whatever judgment thank you. whateverjudgment rishi sunak makes will himself be judged. and that may have political repercussions. to talk a bit more about this dilemma that rishi sunak now faces, let's hear from professorjohn curtis. the truth is that the truth is that mr raab was one of his chief backers that in the leadership bid that mr sunak ran last summer. of course in the end he lost to liz truss, but then eventually acquired office. and indeed, liz truss did indeed not include mr raab in her cabinet. he went back to the backbenches,
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only then for mr raab to put him back into his cabinet, put him back into the position of deputy first minister, despite the fact that there were already claims being made about the ethics of the way mr raab dealt with civil servants in his previous roles as a minister. so to that extent at least, mr sunak in a sense was repaying a debt, but in so doing, made a pretty important call given that one of the other things that mr sunak were saying when he became prime minister was that he was determined to lead a government that was professional, acted with integrity, etc, and some people suggested that maybe be reappointing mr raab would potentially compromise the clarity of that objective. now we have to wait and see what the report says, and may be the report will entirely
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exonerate mr raab and mr sunak will have been shown to have exercised good judgment. but of course the downside is that maybe that's not the case. i think the other reason why mr raab... sorry, mr sunak is somewhat in a difficult place on this is that one of the hopes that the conservative party have for trying to improve their position in the opinion polls, they are still about 17 points behind labour, and local elections coming up in a couple of weeks, has rested very much on mr sunak�*s personal popularity. he is still more popular than his party. there are hopes that by leading a competent, effective and honest government, that mr sunak might be able to get his party back out of the electoral doldrums. if indeed he is forced to sack mr raab, then this will be used against him by the opposition to suggest that actually mr sunak is no cleaner than some of his predecessors when it comes to appointing friends to office.
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making clear their that this is a dilemma that rishi sunak now faces. why don't we speak now to a political reporter for the new statesman, thank you joining us. i'm curious to hear, when you have news meetings about this story, what are you saying, how important is it, how much does it matter? i you saying, how important is it, how much does it matter?— much does it matter? i think this sto has much does it matter? i think this story has been — much does it matter? i think this story has been ongoing - much does it matter? i think this story has been ongoing for - much does it matter? i think this story has been ongoing for a - much does it matter? i think this i story has been ongoing for a while, we had done i first heard the allegations about dominic raab last year and now, obviously, we are seeing the conclusion of a five—month investigation, which is quite a long time for a bullying investigation. the main things people are talking about when we talk about rishi sunak�*s decision is about how it may sound that will make you look. and this is the prime minister that stood on the steps of downing street when he was elected and pledged integrity, transparency and pledged integrity, transparency and account ability. and he was almost immediately met with
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allegations of bullying against his deputy. so it is going to be really important to see how rishi sunak responds to this and how he is able to respond in a way that feels the electorate and his party with confidence, that he is able to get out any rot. the difficulty will obviously be, for rishi sunak, if the report is ambiguous, because we know within the party that will be supporting people of raab. you will have to make sure that any kind of conclusion he comes to and any decision he comes to about raab because my future, that he can back up because my future, that he can back up by because my future, that he can back up by what is in the report. what has been previously outlined, it wasn't adam tolley was my job has been previously outlined, it wasn't adam tolley was myjob to come to a conclusion as to whether raab did bully anyone or did break the ministerial code butjust to set out the facts. ultimately the decision very much lies with rishi sunak and it's quite a difficult line to tread. to keep his party happy, to give the electorate happy, and to keep the promises he made
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when he was elected. figs and to keep the promises he made when he was elected.— when he was elected. as you have ointed when he was elected. as you have pointed out. _ when he was elected. as you have pointed out. it _ when he was elected. as you have pointed out, it is _ when he was elected. as you have pointed out, it is a _ when he was elected. as you have pointed out, it is a very _ when he was elected. as you have pointed out, it is a very difficult i pointed out, it is a very difficult decision for him to make. and especially to make it in a way that satisfies everyone. i mean, just in terms of the political repercussions, of his decision, do you think that is going to be quite important? because his opposition has tried to paint him as weak many times. is this something that will factor into that characterisation? i think definitely. i think if the report is pretty damning and obviously we don't know what the report says get, but we do know that i have been dozens of complainants, so i think they will be a great number of things in the report that suggests bullying behaviour. and it will be interesting to see to what extent those can really be substantiated and i think if there is clear evidence, that most memos of the public there is evidence that dominic raab, did bully stuff, then of course if rishi sunak fails to
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act, the opposition willjump on that straightaway, because, notjust that straightaway, because, notjust that he is weak, cannot stand up to his party, but also that he is... that he cannot stand up to bullies within the party and that he cannot get rid of comedy in a certain prime ministerial way. there will definitely be political repercussions. the other difficulty will be, we have already seen this with some comments from people within the party and political commentators, that bullying is subjective and is a difficult thing to prove. it's not as clear—cut as sexual harassment or racial harassment. so i think it is going to be what one person's bullying is someone else says that i've experienced that before full stops so it's going to be a really difficult thing to prove that these things were definitely bullying and definitely worth the concise action. and he may see people within the party who are raab supporters, if he does decide to force raab to resign, or he does decide to sack raab he
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might see supporters of set in his body questioning decisions. it will be tricky, he might face opposition on either side depending on is what he does. d0 on either side depending on is what he does. ., ., , ., he does. do we learn anything from this, but the _ he does. do we learn anything from this, but the relationship _ he does. do we learn anything from this, but the relationship between l this, but the relationship between the government and civil servants? i think we can... i think what is interesting about this case is that we have seen how difficult it is for civil servants to bring problematic behaviour to the forefront and to really get it out there, because we know that raab was briefly in a position in government and then he went out of its during a reshuffle and came back in. in that period, officials were disappointed to know he was coming back, because they had already experienced what they felt was problematicjust .we . we have to live there. thank you “oininu . we have to live there. thank you joining us- — . we have to live there. thank you joining us- you — . we have to live there. thank you joining us. you watch _ . we have to live there. thank you joining us. you watch it _ . we have to live there. thank you joining us. you watch it what - . we have to live there. thank you joining us. you watch it what you i joining us. you watch it what you see news, do stay with us.
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live from london, this is bbc news. in the uk, report on allegations of bullying against mcgrath has been handed to the prime minister who decide his fate —— against dominic raab. horrific scenes in a school in yemen, 80 people killed in a crash. millions of children have a mess of vaccinations around the world and the misinformation is one of the reasons why. fans around the world react to shock and grief over the death of 25—year—old moonbin. there is a total blackout, for to stand on an australian town to witness a rare solar eclipse.

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