temperatures down again in scotland, temperatures down as —3 in rural parts. frosty for scotland, wet once again for eastern england. the rain stretching into wales, wet weather across the channel coast as well and as that uses away a pile of showers will push in off the north sea with that brisk easterly wind once again. anywhere really from north yorkshire, north of that, beautiful once again. scotland, northern ireland, parts of northern england as well and temperatures of 16 or 17 degrees but along those exposed east coast, it will be cool, breezy and showery. as we go into the weekend it will be a bit of a mess for the start of saturday. weather fronts both across northern england and in the south acting as a sandwich. in between the two there will be sunshine by getting the detail right of where the rain will be, you will need to keep abreast of the

forecast. it is subject to change but scotland will see a good deal sunshine. not quite as warm, nine to 13 degrees in the far north, 12 to 14 13 degrees in the far north, 12 to 1a and that cooler trend is set to continue for sunday. and that's bbc news at ten on thursday the 20th here on bbc one are all of our news teams in the nations and regions, standing by with the news where you are. happily they are in the studios so

what is the fate of dominic raab? the prime minister is deciding whether to back him or sack him. he's had the report into bullying claims against his deputy all day. so what's going on? tonight westminster waits for news amidst a wall of silence from downing street. nick and sima will have the latest. we'll speak to the head of the civil servants�* union and a number 10

speechwriter under liz truss. also tonight... a new abortion controversy in the united states. tomorrow the us supreme court's due to decide if a texas judge was right to ban the drug used in most terminiations. it is infuriating, it is confusing, people are fearful right now about what they are doing, about what they are having to do and whether they get basic health care. and extinction rebellion pledge to step in to prevent disruptive protest by another group at this weekend's london marathon. we bring together a former extinction rebellion member with a just stop oil activist to ask why climate campaigners seem to be diverging so sharply on strategy. good evening. the prime minister got the report into claims of bullying into dominic raab this morning. after a five—month inquiry, looking into eight formal complaints involving multiple civil servants it was expected that rishi sunak would make a decision

on his deputy�*s future within hours. mr raab has always denied the bullying claims made against him. but there's been no decision yet. nick and sima are here. next, tell us what is going on. well, victoria, to misquote donald rumsfeld on his nose and unknowns, there are things we know and things we don't know. what do we know? dominic raab has seen this report and has seen it for some time because under the so—called maxwellisation process, you are allowed to consider a report if you are subject to criticism. he has not resign, he said he would resign if there is proof of bullying, which means as far as he is concerned, he must believe there is no definitive proof of bullying. what do we not know? we don't know what is in the report. we don't know what rishi sunak thinks. as i understand the prime minister is taking time to go through this report thoroughly and then to consider it. what have i picked up? people who are familiar with the thinking in the civil

service, they believe it is a very bad report, they believe it shows a poor pattern of behaviour and i believe dominic raab should resign. friends of dominic raab are saying they think the report will be like they think the report will be like thejudgment of solomon. they think the report will be like the judgment of solomon. there will beissues the judgment of solomon. there will be issues and examples of where the deputy prime minister interacted badly with civil servants, they think there will be examples over civil servants overreacted, and the view in that camp is that this is down to rishi sunak to decide. your sources are — down to rishi sunak to decide. your sources are current _ down to rishi sunak to decide. your sources are current and _ down to rishi sunak to decide. your sources are current and former civil service, what are they saying to you tonight? service, what are they saying to you toni . ht? , ., service, what are they saying to you toniaht? , ., ., service, what are they saying to you toniaht? , . ., , , ., tonight? there is a real sense of trepidation. _ tonight? there is a real sense of trepidation, they _ tonight? there is a real sense of trepidation, they are _ tonight? there is a real sense of trepidation, they are waiting - trepidation, they are waiting for this report, they have been waiting for it_ this report, they have been waiting for it for— this report, they have been waiting for it for months and i thought they were going — for it for months and i thought they were going to see something today and they— were going to see something today and they didn't. some are feeling rather— and they didn't. some are feeling rather anxious. and they didn't. some are feeling ratheranxious. i have been and they didn't. some are feeling rather anxious. i have been speaking to one _ rather anxious. i have been speaking to one former senior civil servant who worked _ to one former senior civil servant who worked closely with dominic raab and i think_ who worked closely with dominic raab and i think he is a bully. tonight they— and i think he is a bully. tonight they have — and i think he is a bully. tonight they have told me if he is sacked because — they have told me if he is sacked because the report is critical of his behaviour, the decision will go some _ his behaviour, the decision will go some way— his behaviour, the decision will go some way to restoring faith and

trust _ some way to restoring faith and trust in — some way to restoring faith and trust in the important relationship that exists between the government and ministers and civil servants. sorry. _ and ministers and civil servants. sorry, government ministers and civil servants. and it would deliver an important message more widely about— an important message more widely about the _ an important message more widely about the consequences of being a bully _ about the consequences of being a bully. while serving civil servant with a _ bully. while serving civil servant with a similar story told me this evening — with a similar story told me this evening that if he is not sat, the report— evening that if he is not sat, the report is— evening that if he is not sat, the report is damning about him, and the decisioh_ report is damning about him, and the decision is— report is damning about him, and the decision is with the pm and it would be an_ decision is with the pm and it would be an outrage if he is in post. one would _ be an outrage if he is in post. one would have — be an outrage if he is in post. one would have to question the absence of leadership and integrity in the pm's_ of leadership and integrity in the pm's decision, making it hard to see that anything other than loyalty is what you — that anything other than loyalty is what you remain to be the secretary of state _ what you remain to be the secretary of state for — what you remain to be the secretary of state forjustice. those who suffered — of state forjustice. those who suffered and spoke out should be recognised for the incredibly difficult situation they put themselves in. as difficult situation they put themselves in.— difficult situation they put themselves in. �* , . themselves in. as we said, dominic raab has always — themselves in. as we said, dominic raab has always denied _ themselves in. as we said, dominic raab has always denied allegations| raab has always denied allegations of bullying. nick, i wonder what the dilemmas are facing rishi sunak

tonight? he dilemmas are facing rishi sunak toniaht? . , dilemmas are facing rishi sunak toniaht? ., , , dilemmas are facing rishi sunak toniuht? , , , tonight? he has three big problems. in the first place _ tonight? he has three big problems. in the first place he _ tonight? he has three big problems. in the first place he said _ tonight? he has three big problems. in the first place he said he - tonight? he has three big problems. in the first place he said he would i in the first place he said he would lead a government of integrity, professionalism and accountability. evenif professionalism and accountability. even if dominic raab has not met the legal definition of bullying, and he believes he has not met that, it could be a problem for the prime minister, but maybe he has not met that bar of integrity and professionalism and accountability. the second problem is he is very close to dominic raab. dominic raab was the most senior tory who stood with him right the way through the summer conservative leadership contest when there were others peeling away, dominic raab was there all the way through. the other final problem the prime minister has is he is not getting a definitive judgment, conclusion, it is a finding of facts. that is quite different to the report into nadhim zahawi, that was saying the ministerial code had been broken, so he was out of the door. in other words, it is a very lonely decision for the prime minister.

interestingly, not many leaders tonight. interestingly, not many leaders toniaht. ~ . interestingly, not many leaders toniaht. . . interestingly, not many leaders toniaht. ., ., . tonight. what are dominic raab as 's su orters tonight. what are dominic raab as 's supporters saying? _ tonight. what are dominic raab as 's supporters saying? some _ tonight. what are dominic raab as 's supporters saying? some people - tonight. what are dominic raab as 's i supporters saying? some people might find something — supporters saying? some people might find something offensive _ supporters saying? some people might find something offensive and _ supporters saying? some people might find something offensive and others . find something offensive and others might— find something offensive and others might not — find something offensive and others might not. dominic raab does have his supporters, both in parliament and among — his supporters, both in parliament and among civil servants. we have heard _ and among civil servants. we have heard from — and among civil servants. we have heard from them in the past. i am still hearing — heard from them in the past. i am still hearing from some of them now. i am still hearing from some of them now. i am hearing — still hearing from some of them now. i am hearing there is frustration, they— i am hearing there is frustration, they feel— i am hearing there is frustration, they feel that he has been tried by they feel that he has been tried by the media — they feel that he has been tried by the media and lots of quotes have been _ the media and lots of quotes have been going around and that is what he is _ been going around and that is what he is being — been going around and that is what he is being judged on and they are frustrated — he is being judged on and they are frustrated by that. james daley said. _ frustrated by that. james daley said, during the time i work with dominic— said, during the time i work with dominic raab he has always been kind, _ dominic raab he has always been kind, courteous and utterly professional. one former senior civil servant said he was very professional to me, he described him as incredibly hard—working and very demanding, which does not amount to bein- demanding, which does not amount to being a _ demanding, which does not amount to being a bully. we know dominic raab has denied _ being a bully. we know dominic raab has denied all the allegations against — has denied all the allegations against him. he says he is a professional and has been a

professional. people i have spoken to have _ professional. people i have spoken to have not — professional. people i have spoken to have not yet seen the report it is worth— to have not yet seen the report it is worth saying. to have not yet seen the report it is worth saying-— to have not yet seen the report it is worth saying. how deep would you sa the is worth saying. how deep would you say the divide _ is worth saying. how deep would you say the divide is _ is worth saying. how deep would you say the divide is between _ is worth saying. how deep would you say the divide is between civil- say the divide is between civil servants and ministers tonight? there is one practical issue. if you are a civil servant whose evidence is included in this report, dominic raab knows your name. if he stays on as secretary of state in the ministry ofjustice, he will know which civil servants have criticised him and i feel which civil servants have criticised him and ifeel quite which civil servants have criticised him and i feel quite uncomfortable about that. relations between ministers and civil servants are much better under rishi sunak�*s government. many civil servants felt they had a war against them in the borisjohnson and liz truss boris johnson and liz truss governments, but borisjohnson and liz truss governments, but rishi sunak must have a much warmer and trustful relationship. nick and sima, thank you. i'm joined now by the general secretary of the civil servants' union fda, dave penman, and former foreign office and number 10 speechwriter for liz truss, asa bennett. thank you both for talking to us.

let me ask you first, dave, though civil servants who worked with dominic raab, what are they saying to you tonight about this delay? they are astonished that the prime minister has got to the point of essentially notifying everyone that he will make a decision today and he still has not done so. the civil servant making a complaint under the ministerial code has got no right and they have got no involvement in the process, they don't see the report. they are sitting and watching the tv and waiting for the prime minister to make a decision after bringing a complaint against one of the most powerful people in the country and an ally of the prime minister. they will be sitting and speculated, is a political conspiracy? what is going on? they have been waiting five months for a response from the prime minister, so it is farcical to know that he can't make a decision and everyone has got to wait another night to find out what that is. is

to wait another night to find out what that is.— to wait another night to find out what that is. is it right that rishi sunak goes _ what that is. is it right that rishi sunak goes through _ what that is. is it right that rishi sunak goes through this - what that is. is it right that rishi sunak goes through this report i sunak goes through this report diligently, line by line? if sunak goes through this report diligently, line by line?- sunak goes through this report diligently, line by line? if that is what he's doing, _ diligently, line by line? if that is what he's doing, of— diligently, line by line? if that is what he's doing, of course, - diligently, line by line? if that is what he's doing, of course, we i diligently, line by line? if that is- what he's doing, of course, we want him to make a decision on the facts. but he has put himself in this position. he could have used his ethics adviser to advise him on it and we asked him to do that. instead of having to do it and go through it line by line himself, he would have someone to have done that make recommendations. the prime minister of this country is having to work out what the definition of bullying is and has got to apply it and that is and has got to apply it and that is not what he should be doing. ultimately the choice the prime minister has taken has put him in this position and there is a real lack of compassion for people who raise complaints. they are sitting at home tonight, watching this, waiting to find out their fate. the prime minister has not delivered that when he said he was going to. aza bennett, why do you think this is taking longer than expected? simply because the conclusions of

the report— simply because the conclusions of the report are clearly not very simple — the report are clearly not very simple it— the report are clearly not very simple. it is notjust exoneration, it is not— simple. it is notjust exoneration, it is not a — simple. it is notjust exoneration, it is not a whitewash, it is not caught— it is not a whitewash, it is not caught red—handed. it is so legally contentious and the prime minister is really— contentious and the prime minister is really having to chew it over and no doubt _ is really having to chew it over and no doubt assess what dominic raab's defence _ no doubt assess what dominic raab's defence is _ no doubt assess what dominic raab's defence is. his general defence is that he _ defence is. his general defence is that he is— defence is. his general defence is that he is tough, he is no nonsense and if— that he is tough, he is no nonsense and if it— that he is tough, he is no nonsense and if it is— that he is tough, he is no nonsense and if it is his— that he is tough, he is no nonsense and if it is his problem that some of his— and if it is his problem that some of his officials can't cope with his hi-h of his officials can't cope with his high standards, that is their fault, not his _ high standards, that is their fault, not his this— high standards, that is their fault, not his. this report has clearly compiled — not his. this report has clearly compiled lots of evidence from serious — compiled lots of evidence from serious professionals who have been with him _ serious professionals who have been with him up— serious professionals who have been with him up close and it does not paint— with him up close and it does not paint a _ with him up close and it does not paint a flattering picture. we will be moving on to something else tomorrow. — be moving on to something else tomorrow, but instead this drags on for another— tomorrow, but instead this drags on for another day. if tomorrow, but instead this drags on for another day.— for another day. if dominic raab is cleared, would _ for another day. if dominic raab is cleared, would you _ for another day. if dominic raab is cleared, would you accept - for another day. if dominic raab is cleared, would you accept that. for another day. if dominic raab is| cleared, would you accept that part of your members? the cleared, would you accept that part of your members?—

cleared, would you accept that part of your members? the prime minister has not a of your members? the prime minister has got a difficult _ of your members? the prime minister has got a difficult job. _ of your members? the prime minister has got a difficult job. there _ of your members? the prime minister has got a difficult job. there are - has got a difficultjob. there are more than two dozen civil servants involved in these complaints and three different departments and that is not an easy thing for any of them to do. if the prime minister does clear dominic raab, he will have to explain to the civil service why thatis explain to the civil service why that is the case. he will have to set out the evidence that he has made that decision on an individual civil servants will have to make a judgment based on that. we hope the prime minister makes a decision based on those facts. and prime minister makes a decision based on those facts.— prime minister makes a decision based on those facts. and if he does and it means — based on those facts. and if he does and it means dominic— based on those facts. and if he does and it means dominic raab - based on those facts. and if he does and it means dominic raab is - and it means dominic raab is cleared, will you as head of the union accept that? if cleared, will you as head of the union accept that?— union accept that? if he can demonstrate _ union accept that? if he can demonstrate that _ union accept that? if he can demonstrate that is - union accept that? if he can demonstrate that is the - union accept that? if he can i demonstrate that is the case, union accept that? if he can - demonstrate that is the case, the evidence is clear one way or another, of course we have to accept that. but the track record of this is not very good. the previous prime minister sat on a report for five months, ignore the evidence, and he still did not find it... it does not mean this prime minister will behave in the same way. this prime minister refuses to answer a straight question of whether he has briefed

dominic raab before appointing him. he appointed an independent ethics adviser and did not allow him to conduct investigations independently. this prime minister has got serious questions to ask about how he has not only handled this question about dominic raab, but how he handles the whole issue of complaints against ministers. dominic raab is one of rishi sunak�*s closest allies, he was one of his most vocal and high—profile supporters in both leadership contest last year. how difficult will it be for rishi sunak to make a decision about the future of his friend and ally? i decision about the future of his friend and ally?— decision about the future of his friend and ally? i think it is going to be a fiendishly _ friend and ally? i think it is going to be a fiendishly difficult - to be a fiendishly difficult decision for the prime minister simply— decision for the prime minister simply because they are bodies and dominic— simply because they are bodies and dominic raab is one of the sharpest and strongest supporters of his agenda — and strongest supporters of his agenda. but the thing is, he serves at the _ agenda. but the thing is, he serves at the prime minister's pleasure and it was— at the prime minister's pleasure and it was up— at the prime minister's pleasure and it was up to — at the prime minister's pleasure and it was up to rishi sunak to bring dominic— it was up to rishi sunak to bring dominic raab back from his brief

sojourn — dominic raab back from his brief sojourn on — dominic raab back from his brief sojourn on the backbenches back into government in his old job as deputy to the _ government in his old job as deputy to the prime minister and even to his old _ to the prime minister and even to his old department asjustice secretary. he knew what he was dealing — secretary. he knew what he was dealing with then. clearly he liked what he _ dealing with then. clearly he liked what he saw and wanted some more of dominic— what he saw and wanted some more of dominic raab in government and now he is having _ dominic raab in government and now he is having to decide what can he do when _ he is having to decide what can he do when the facts are presented to him? _ do when the facts are presented to him? he— do when the facts are presented to him? he cannot sit on the fence on this because — him? he cannot sit on the fence on this because it is so serious, as nick_ this because it is so serious, as nick was — this because it is so serious, as nick was saying. when he promises a hardware _ nick was saying. when he promises a hardware accountability, professionalism and integrity in government, you have to deliver on it. government, you have to deliver on it he _ government, you have to deliver on it. he has done so with sacking nadhim — it. he has done so with sacking nadhim zahawi and gavin richardson. gavin _ nadhim zahawi and gavin richardson. gavin richardson resigned. he nadhim zahawi and gavin richardson. gavin richardson resigned.— gavin richardson resigned. he forced them to. dominic— gavin richardson resigned. he forced them to. dominic raab _ gavin richardson resigned. he forced them to. dominic raab will— gavin richardson resigned. he forced them to. dominic raab will now - gavin richardson resigned. he forcedj them to. dominic raab will now know them to. dominic raab will now know the names of the civil servants who made claims against him. if he is able to continue in his role, what does that mean for those civil servants?—

does that mean for those civil servants? , ., , , ., servants? civil servants were brave enou:h servants? civil servants were brave enou . h to servants? civil servants were brave enough to come — servants? civil servants were brave enough to come forward _ servants? civil servants were brave enough to come forward and - servants? civil servants were brave enough to come forward and raise l enough to come forward and raise complaints knowing they would be named. if they end up having to work in the same department they will have to question that. the civil service is a big employer and people can move. it will raise fundamental questions. it is not easy to raise a complaint against a member of staff. you have to put a complaint into the prime minister who has to decide whether it can be investigated. there are no rules, you cannot challenge it, you can't make a complaint. people don't do it lightly. those people who have taken that decision, knowing that they will be named, then feel they will be let down by the prime minister, they will have to work out whether they will have to work out whether they want to be working for this government and in the same building. is it realistic and in the same building. i5 is it realistic and in the same buildinu. , ., , . , building. is it realistic number could resign? _ building. is it realistic number could resign? i _ building. is it realistic number could resign? i think- building. is it realistic number could resign? i think so. - building. is it realistic number could resign? i think so. it. building. is it realistic number could resign? i think so. it is. could resign? i think so. it is hard to describe how difficult it is for civil servants to raise a complaint against a minister. if you have gone that far and got to that point and you think the prime minister does

not have your back, then you are going to think fundamentally about whether you want to work for the government. whether you want to work for the government-— whether you want to work for the rovernment. ~ , ,, ., ~ government. when rishi sunak went into downing — government. when rishi sunak went into downing street _ government. when rishi sunak went into downing street he _ government. when rishi sunak went into downing street he promised - into downing street he promised integrity, accountability and professionalism. the longer this goes on before we get a decision, does it risk, does he risk those pledges? does it risk, does he risk those ledaes? , ,, ., ~ does it risk, does he risk those ledaes? , ,, .,~ ., does it risk, does he risk those ”ledes? , ,, ., , ., , pledges? rishi sunak also promised to take swift — pledges? rishi sunak also promised to take swift and _ pledges? rishi sunak also promised to take swift and decisive _ pledges? rishi sunak also promised to take swift and decisive action - pledges? rishi sunak also promised to take swift and decisive action in l to take swift and decisive action in response — to take swift and decisive action in response to the handling of dominic raab and _ response to the handling of dominic raab and his conduct. i think he will have — raab and his conduct. i think he will have to deliver on his promises. this will be his chance. whatever— promises. this will be his chance. whatever he comes out with he will have to _ whatever he comes out with he will have to back himself if he finds a way that— have to back himself if he finds a way that dominic raab can still stay in this— way that dominic raab can still stay in this government, he will have to explain _ in this government, he will have to explain that — in this government, he will have to explain that he has shown genuine contrition — explain that he has shown genuine contrition. it is notjust simply sending — contrition. it is notjust simply sending him off to anger management. you will— sending him off to anger management. you will have to have a solid rationale _ you will have to have a solid rationale. equally if he decides with regret that dominic raab can no longer— with regret that dominic raab can no longer served in government he will have to _ longer served in government he will have to make that very clear.

the hours are ticking down in the united states towards another crucial decision amidst a row over access to an abortion drug. mifepristone is used to terminate a pregnancy in more than half of abortions in the united states. right now the drug will only remain available until midnight tomorrow night when the us supreme court will decide whether a texas judge who suspended its use earlier this month questioning its safety, was right to do so. abortion rights in america have been at the centre of legal wrangling since the us supreme court controversially overturned roe versus wade last year which suddenly meant the right to an abortion under the american constitution was no longer guaranteed and it returned abortion decisions to individual states. right now abortion remains legal in about half the states across the usa. here's anna. abortion rights in texas are some of the most contentious in the us. even before roe v wade was overturned, most procedures

after six weeks were banned with no exceptions for rape or incest. and it was a texas federaljudge who recently tried to suspend the use of a popular abortion drug, notjust in the lone star state but across the country. an intervention by the biden administration means currently the drug is still largely available but the legal row has now reached the highest court in the us with a decision on its use expected tomorrow. it is infuriating, it's confusing. it's fearful, people are fearful right now about what they are doing, what they are having to do in order to get basic health care. mifepristone is one of the main abortion drugs in the us and can be used during the first ten weeks of pregnancy. campaigners who offer advice about abortion pills say the drugs are essential for women living in states where the provision of abortion care is banned but where self—managed abortions are not technically illegal.

they are pills that are mailed directly to their homes and people are using them to have a medically safe, self—managed abortion in the privacy of their own home or space, so it is a lifeline. it was a group of anti—abortion doctors who brought the case against mifepristone saying the goal was to "protect american women and girls from dangerous chemical abortion drugs". despite the medication being approved more than two decades ago, a texas judge ruled the food and drug administration, the fda, had rushed the process — they didn't consider the side—effects properly. but many medical experts disagree. we have decades of safety data on this medication. it is safe to use for nearly everyone. it's the preferred choice for many pregnant patients who are hoping to end their pregnancies. it's used for miscarriage management

as well, so i would say it's undoubtedly a very safe medication and this really comes across as a political decision and not a medical or evidence—based decision. this comes nearly a year since the roe v wade ruling which guaranteed women the right to an abortion was overturned, and individual states had the power to decide. currently most abortions are banned in 13 states, including texas. florida was once a destination for those seeking the procedure in the south but now a six—week ban is expected to be brought in with victims of rape or incest required to provide proof. these are unborn babies that have heart beat, they can feel pain, they can suck their thumb, and to say that the state constitution mandates things like dismemberment abortions, i just don't think that's the proper interpretation. medication abortions have to take place with a physician present in florida. if the supreme court decides to allow restrictions on mifepristone, dr rapkin says it will have a profound effect on services.

we will have to cease providing medication abortions altogether, at least for a while, while we completely restructure our processes. medication abortion will no longer be a legal option to patients here in florida, forcing patients to undergo a procedure that they hadn't planned on, travel farther to access an abortion, or continue a pregnancy against their will. if the conservative leaning supreme court sides with the texas ruling it could significantly limit access to mifepristone. but there are legal opinions which suggest it may not be binding across the country. though much is still unknown. the future of us abortion access lies in the hands of its highest court. we'll shortly be hearing from katie daniel who is in florida. she is state policy director at the us national network susan b but first — let's talk

to emma hernandez who is in texas — she works with the abortion rights group wetestify and has had two abortions using mifepristone. thank you for talking to us. emma, how do you feel as the clock ticks down to the decision from the us supreme court tomorrow? especially as a person — supreme court tomorrow? especially as a person who _ supreme court tomorrow? especially as a person who has _ supreme court tomorrow? especially as a person who has had _ supreme court tomorrow? especially as a person who has had medicationl as a person who has had medication abortions, to understand that the health i was able to use to exercise my reproductive freedom may no longer be available to others in a similar position. however, i also understand that mifepristone has been used safely for decades. it's in our communities today and will continue to be there and is something people can depend on to safely end pregnancies. i know it is a difficult time and a confusing time, intentionally so, for people

out there who are pregnant today and trying to understand what options remain available. flan trying to understand what options remain available.— trying to understand what options remain available. ., ., ., ., remain available. can women who want a termination — remain available. can women who want a termination today, _ remain available. can women who want a termination today, can they _ remain available. can women who want a termination today, can they get - a termination today, can they get access to these pills?— access to these pills? yes. there are abortion _ access to these pills? yes. there are abortion providers _ access to these pills? yes. there are abortion providers and - access to these pills? yes. there are abortion providers and if- access to these pills? yes. there are abortion providers and if you | are abortion providers and if you have an appointment today you are able to still continue with your medication abortion appointment. what is still to be understood is how the law will be interpreted and what will remain as an option for patients in clinic.— patients in clinic. those “ustices in the us patients in clinic. those justices in the us supreme court - patients in clinic. those justices in the us supreme court will. patients in clinic. those justices| in the us supreme court will put that legitimately the institution is entitled to rule on issues like this. do you accept that? roe entitled to rule on issues like this. do you accept that? roe v wade was overturned _ this. do you accept that? roe v wade was overturned under— this. do you accept that? roe v wade was overturned under a _ this. do you accept that? roe v wade was overturned under a claim - this. do you accept that? roe v wade was overturned under a claim that. was overturned under a claim that a federal protection for a person's right to an abortion was government overreach and it is a decision left to the states. now it is evident that the decision to end medication

abortion nationwide is the new anti—abortion position. we know that the laws and courts don't keep us safe. that's something our communities do for ourselves. no matter what the court decides we will always self managed abortions and demand in clinic abortions at any stage of pregnancy and always support each other in caring for each other in abortion care and be supportive for one another so we can access safe abortions and keep talking about abortion experiences so we are not alone in this. mifepristone and other drugs are already here and they are here to stay. already here and they are here to sta . ~ , ., _ already here and they are here to sta. , stay. when you say you will self manare stay. when you say you will self manage your — stay. when you say you will self manage your own _ stay. when you say you will self manage your own abortions - stay. when you say you will self manage your own abortions and j manage your own abortions and support each other and the community, if the us supreme court agrees with the texas judge and says, like the texas judge did, these pills are not safe, how will you get access to them? late these pills are not safe, how will you get access to them? we know medication _ you get access to them? we know medication abortion _ you get access to them? we know medication abortion is _

you get access to them? we know medication abortion is medically l medication abortion is medically safe but legally risky. we know we have the tools in place today to safely manage our own abortion care. these courts are making it more difficult for individuals to access that health care. we know we can do it safely. these courts are anti—abortion. they are making decisions that are not in the best reasoning of medicine, they are not rooted in the actual health care that we need, they are robbing us of nuanced care. we know within our communities we will always be able to access the care and be able to resource one another across the us to be able to get to a place, if thatis to be able to get to a place, if that is the best option for an individual to access abortion, or find a way to do so locally. katie daniel, find a way to do so locally. katie daniel. let _ find a way to do so locally. katie daniel, let me _ find a way to do so locally. katie daniel, let me ask— find a way to do so locally. katie daniel, let me ask you - find a way to do so locally. katie daniel, let me ask you the - find a way to do so locally. katie j daniel, let me ask you the same question. how are you feeling as the clock ticks down to this us supreme

court decision tomorrow?— court decision tomorrow? we think so far the courts — court decision tomorrow? we think so far the courts have gotten _ far the courts have gotten this right, — far the courts have gotten this right, they recognise the fda was politically— right, they recognise the fda was politically motivated to bring this dru- politically motivated to bring this drug in — politically motivated to bring this drug in. from the beginning this has been _ drug in. from the beginning this has been a _ drug in. from the beginning this has been a political decision. the fifth circuit— been a political decision. the fifth circuit court of appeal did a great 'ob circuit court of appeal did a great job and _ circuit court of appeal did a great job and showed by the fda plus my own numbers, a certain percentage of women _ own numbers, a certain percentage of women will— own numbers, a certain percentage of women will need to go to the hospital— women will need to go to the hospital for further follow—up and that's— hospital for further follow—up and that's under the best case circumstance which each means hundreds— circumstance which each means hundreds of thousands of women have already— hundreds of thousands of women have already suffered from these pills. it is already suffered from these pills. it is never— already suffered from these pills. it is never too late to do the right thing _ it is never too late to do the right thing the — it is never too late to do the right thing. the ft eight needs to go back and do _ thing. the ft eight needs to go back and do due _ thing. the ft eight needs to go back and do due diligence and if it can prove _ and do due diligence and if it can prove the — and do due diligence and if it can prove the drugs are safe and effective _ prove the drugs are safe and effective then more power to them, the american people deserve to see the american people deserve to see the proof— the american people deserve to see the proof but so far we have not seen _ the proof but so far we have not seen it. . , ,, the proof but so far we have not seen it. . , i. ., seen it. except you have, there have been more than _ seen it. except you have, there have been more than 100 scientific - been more than 100 scientific studies spanning many years examining mifepristone and they all conclude the pills are a safe method for terminating a pregnancy. mil

for terminating a pregnancy. all studies do not conclude that if you refer— studies do not conclude that if you refer to _ studies do not conclude that if you refer to the new york times, they didn't— refer to the new york times, they didn't even— refer to the new york times, they didn't even list the studies they are pointing to so we can't check them _ are pointing to so we can't check them. ., ., ., ., , them. how are 5 million women safely usin: them. how are 5 million women safely using abortion — them. how are 5 million women safely using abortion pills _ them. how are 5 million women safely using abortion pills to _ them. how are 5 million women safely using abortion pills to end _ them. how are 5 million women safely using abortion pills to end their - using abortion pills to end their pregnancies? it using abortion pills to end their pregnancies?— using abortion pills to end their pregnancies? using abortion pills to end their reanancies? .,, �* , ., pregnancies? it hasn't been safe for man of pregnancies? it hasn't been safe for many of these _ pregnancies? it hasn't been safe for many of these women. _ pregnancies? it hasn't been safe for many of these women. many - pregnancies? it hasn't been safe for| many of these women. many women pregnancies? it hasn't been safe for- many of these women. many women have had immediate side effects, they have been in hospitals, emergency room _ have been in hospitals, emergency room doctors are treating them. many women _ room doctors are treating them. many women feel— room doctors are treating them. many women feel regret or pressure, and sending _ women feel regret or pressure, and sending drugs through the mail on increases — sending drugs through the mail on increases the likelihood women will be pressured. the fda has green lit sending _ be pressured. the fda has green lit sending the drugs through the mail to men— sending the drugs through the mail to men and to minors through the drugs _ to men and to minors through the drugs without parents knowing. the fda ruling _ drugs without parents knowing. the fda ruling is not safe and hopefully the court _ fda ruling is not safe and hopefully the court will correct that. in fda ruling is not safe and hopefully the court will correct that.— the court will correct that. in the ast ear the court will correct that. in the past year we _ the court will correct that. in the past year we have _ the court will correct that. in the past year we have seen - the court will correct that. in the past year we have seen roe - past year we have seen roe versus wade overturned and potentially this drug could be restricted. with what public mandate? 31

drug could be restricted. with what public mandate?— drug could be restricted. with what public mandate? 31 states have said these drugs — public mandate? 31 states have said these drugs cannot _ public mandate? 31 states have said these drugs cannot be _ public mandate? 31 states have said these drugs cannot be sent - public mandate? 31 states have said these drugs cannot be sent through| these drugs cannot be sent through these drugs cannot be sent through the mail— these drugs cannot be sent through the mail under state law, that's been _ the mail under state law, that's been passed in the last two decades. it is long—standing. that's a big part of— it is long—standing. that's a big part of this _ it is long—standing. that's a big part of this case. the fda is pushing _ part of this case. the fda is pushing for rules that directly violate — pushing for rules that directly violate state and federal law. | pushing for rules that directly violate state and federal law. i am askin: violate state and federal law. i am asking you — violate state and federal law. i am asking you with — violate state and federal law. i am asking you with what _ violate state and federal law. i an asking you with what public mandate are these restrictions being brought in? , ., , ., are these restrictions being brought in? , ., , a, are these restrictions being brought in? the people of 31 states have elected public _ in? the people of 31 states have elected public officials _ in? the people of 31 states have elected public officials who - in? the people of 31 states have elected public officials who have passed — elected public officials who have passed laws that they have supported. here in my home state of florida. _ supported. here in my home state of florida. our— supported. here in my home state of florida, our legislators were sent to tallahassee with a mandate to end our state _ to tallahassee with a mandate to end our state from being a late term abortion— our state from being a late term abortion destination. that's what they are — abortion destination. that's what they are doing and they were overwhelmingly re—elected in november and overwhelmingly re—elected in novemberand we overwhelmingly re—elected in november and we celebrate this as a win. november and we celebrate this as a win 62%_ november and we celebrate this as a win 62% of— november and we celebrate this as a win. 62% of floridians support the heartbeat — win. 62% of floridians support the heartbeat law.— win. 62% of floridians support the heartbeat law. according to another research company, _ heartbeat law. according to another research company, two _ heartbeat law. according to another research company, two thirds - heartbeat law. according to another research company, two thirds of. research company, two thirds of americans believe abortions should be legal in their states. there have

been recent ballots in several states to make abortions illegal that were all rejected by voters. when you ask people questions about the fda _ when you ask people questions about the fda current policies, do you think— the fda current policies, do you think drugs should be sent through the mail. _ think drugs should be sent through the mail, should they be some to minors _ the mail, should they be some to minors without their parents knowing, _ minors without their parents knowing, 75% of americans oppose that~ _ knowing, 75% of americans oppose that when — knowing, 75% of americans oppose that. when you ask broad and open ended _ that. when you ask broad and open ended questions, people give you broad _ ended questions, people give you broad and — ended questions, people give you broad and open ended questions, people _ broad and open ended questions, people give you broad and open—ended answers _ people give you broad and open—ended answers. when you ask direct questions, people support pro—life policies _ questions, people support pro-life olicies. ., _, . ~ questions, people support pro-life olicies. ., . ~ ., policies. emma, coming back to you, some democrats _ policies. emma, coming back to you, some democrats are _ policies. emma, coming back to you, some democrats are saying - policies. emma, coming back to you, some democrats are saying states i some democrats are saying states should just ignore the rulings. some sayjoe biden should up the number ofjustices on the us supreme court to tip the balance in favour of continuing abortion rights. would you support any of those moves? i think any mechanism that is available to continue providing access to abortion care nationwide is needed. the ability to decide if, when and how to grow a family is

integral to all our lives. the laws they are citing and efforts to restrict mifepristone are literally from the 1870s and they are using them today to inform medicine. abortion bans came about then when black people were getting free, and people were coming to the us. it's not surprising to see this resurgence to control black and brown bodies is coming back and they are hoping to control access to our reproductive freedom. any ability or tool that exists to help people get abortions today and in the future i fully support. abortions today and in the future i fully support-— fully support. thank you both for talkin: to fully support. thank you both for talking to our — fully support. thank you both for talking to our british _ fully support. thank you both for talking to our british audience i talking to our british audience tonight. thank you. extinction rebellion says it has no plans to disrupt the london marathon this sunday, but there is no similar statement from just stop oil. both groups are known for their direct protests to draw attention to the fact that world temperatures are rising because of human activity. the world is now about 1.1 degrees warmer than it was in the 19th

century and temperatures are projected to rise by 2.4 degrees by the end of this century even with the measures signed up to by the global community at climate summits. climate scientists agree that temperature increases must be capped at 1.5 degrees to avoid the worst consequences of climate change. but of course there remains significant disagreement about the policy measures needed to get us there. and now there seems to be growing disagreement too amongst those campaigning for change about how best to achieve it. it raises the prospect of some one—time protestors potentially stepping in on sunday to protect the london marathon against others who might seek to disrupt it. here's the london marathon race director. we have been talking to extinction rebellion for months and extinction rebellion have been very, very clear that they are in a new phase of wanting to engage the general public in a different way and it was not extinction

rebellion at the snooker on tuesday. it wasjust stop oil. the two best—known environment direct action groups in the uk have, it seems, now diverged on policy. extinction rebellion used to do things like this. pouring fake blood outside the london stock exchange in 2021. blocking westminster bridge last year, defacing the victoria memorial. but there have also been plenty of less disruptive protests. there has also been an edge of violence, not from xr themselves but directed at them. here angry commuters pulled a protestor off a tube train. you are under arrest for criminal damage. don't touch me! they have now told the london marathon organisers that they are in a new phase of protest now and there are even suggestions xr will help police the event. the marathon organisers are in any

case trying to get some kind of assurance from just stop oil. the world—famous charity fundraising event has some moral clout. the grand nationalfor some people perhaps less so. at the weekend this group, animal rising, disrupted the event in protest at the number of horses who die on those aintree fences. but likejust stop oil the agenda is non—violent, peaceful civil disobedience. martin luther king, not malcolm x. here to discuss this we have indigo rumbelow from just stop oil, and rupert read, a former spokesperson for extinction rebellion who is now co—director of the climate majority project we wa nted we wanted to bring you together to have a conversation between you both because you both believe, like many, that change needs to come more quickly, but you have different ideas of how to get there. what are

your ideas? i ideas of how to get there. what are your ideas?— your ideas? i know that we need to move into civil— your ideas? i know that we need to move into civil resistance _ your ideas? i know that we need to move into civil resistance against i move into civil resistance against our criminal government, which is pushing for new oil and gas in the middle of this emergency. and i know that the thousands of people that we are is not yet enough and we need to ask all the institutions, all the influential people and everybody watching television tonight to join us in civil resistance. that might meanjoining the big one, extinction rebellion's protest tomorrow when tens of thousands of people are going to come out and demand an end to the fossilfuel era. going to come out and demand an end to the fossil fuel era. and it might mean staying on for the slow marches that will be starting in london from monday at 7am in parliament square every weekday. fin monday at 7am in parliament square every weekday-— every weekday. on the oil and gas licensin: every weekday. on the oil and gas licensing there _ every weekday. on the oil and gas licensing there is _ every weekday. on the oil and gas licensing there is a _ every weekday. on the oil and gas licensing there is a new— every weekday. on the oil and gas licensing there is a new licensing i licensing there is a new licensing round for exploration and this is what the government say. we will be

using oil and gas for decades to come as we move to net zero. it is estimated we will require a quarter of the gas we used today in 2050 and bringing it in from abroad in liquefied natural gas tankers will mean higher emissions than gas produced here, so it makes no sense. new licences will only go to slow the very fast decline we already have a north sea production and it will not see production overall increase even with continued development, oiland increase even with continued development, oil and gas production is expected to decline in this country by 7% in a year. let me go to you, rupert, in terms of your ideas on how to get mass public support. ideas on how to get mass public su ort. ,, ,,, ., ideas on how to get mass public sun-oft, ,, ., , , support. support for measures. yes, that government _ support. support for measures. yes, that government statement - support. support for measures. yes, that government statement is - support. support for measures. yes, that government statement is an - that government statement is an outrage — that government statement is an outraae. ~ g that government statement is an outrage.- because - that government statement is an outrage.- because it - that government statement is an outrage.- because it is - outrage. why? because it is absolutely _ outrage. why? because it is absolutely clear _ outrage. why? because it is absolutely clear now - outrage. why? because it is absolutely clear now that i outrage. why? because it is| absolutely clear now that we outrage. why? because it is i absolutely clear now that we must

stop having new oil, new coal, etc, if we _ stop having new oil, new coal, etc, if we are _ stop having new oil, new coal, etc, if we are going to have any chance of having — if we are going to have any chance of having any kind of feature. this is not _ of having any kind of feature. this is not about — of having any kind of feature. this is not about staying below 1.5 celsius — is not about staying below 1.5 celsius i_ is not about staying below 1.5 celsius. i work at the university of east anglia — celsius. i work at the university of east anglia and the climate scientist i work with are all clear in five _ scientist i work with are all clear in five -- — scientist i work with are all clear in five -- at _ scientist i work with are all clear in five —— at least in private, that the i5— in five —— at least in private, that the 15 goal— in five —— at least in private, that the 1.5 goal has gone. that kind of brutal— the 1.5 goal has gone. that kind of brutal truth — the 1.5 goal has gone. that kind of brutal truth telling is still not getting — brutal truth telling is still not getting through and even in this terrible — getting through and even in this terrible situation where we will be going _ terrible situation where we will be going through 1.5 degrees they are still planning to do more oil and gas _ still planning to do more oil and gas the — still planning to do more oil and gas. the point is what we are going to do? _ gas. the point is what we are going to do? what— gas. the point is what we are going to do? what is each and every one of us going _ to do? what is each and every one of us going to _ to do? what is each and every one of us going to do in response to this difficult _ us going to do in response to this difficult situation? some people will take — difficult situation? some people will take the kind of action that indigo— will take the kind of action that indigo hasjust laid out. i am here for the _ indigo hasjust laid out. i am here for the many more who say things like. _ for the many more who say things like. i_ for the many more who say things like, i agree with your objectives, but not _ like, i agree with your objectives, but not with your tactics. what i want _ but not with your tactics. what i want to — but not with your tactics. what i want to say— but not with your tactics. what i want to say to all of those people if you _ want to say to all of those people if you have — want to say to all of those people if you have a responsibility, we all have _ if you have a responsibility, we all have a _ if you have a responsibility, we all have a responsibility now, to step up. have a responsibility now, to step up the _ have a responsibility now, to step up. the world is watching, the

future — up. the world is watching, the future is — up. the world is watching, the future is watching. this will be what _ future is watching. this will be what our — future is watching. this will be what our children and grandchildren care about — what our children and grandchildren care about. this is what theyjudge us on _ care about. this is what theyjudge us on what— care about. this is what theyjudge us on. what is necessary, what is crucial— us on. what is necessary, what is crucial now. — us on. what is necessary, what is crucial now, is that people who find ways _ crucial now, is that people who find ways in _ crucial now, is that people who find ways in their— crucial now, is that people who find ways in their lives, and i don't just— ways in their lives, and i don't just mean— ways in their lives, and i don't just mean recycling or giving £5 a month— just mean recycling or giving £5 a month to — just mean recycling or giving £5 a month to the national trust, i mean in our— month to the national trust, i mean in our communities together, in our workplaces. — in our communities together, in our workplaces, in our profession, in the places— workplaces, in our profession, in the places that we pray, in politics. _ the places that we pray, in politics, ways that we can actually together _ politics, ways that we can actually together make a difference on the ground _ together make a difference on the ground because our governments have not got _ ground because our governments have not got this _ ground because our governments have not got this. i ground because our governments have not not this. ., ., ., ., not got this. i have got a whole list of things — not got this. i have got a whole list of things that _ not got this. i have got a whole list of things that governments | not got this. i have got a whole i list of things that governments have done which i am happy to read in a moment, but i am interested in exploring the fact that you have moved on from extinction rebellion, thatis moved on from extinction rebellion, that is a fair way of putting it, they have moved on from the direct protest and the reasons why you are now advocating this ground up movement and why you think direct protest is still the way to go, indigo. i protest is still the way to go, indi . 0. ~ . protest is still the way to go,

indi . 0. ~ , ., , protest is still the way to go, indiuo. ~ , ., , indigo. i think these two things can work together. _ indigo. i think these two things can work together, i _ indigo. i think these two things can work together, i don't _ indigo. i think these two things can work together, i don't see - indigo. i think these two things can work together, i don't see this i indigo. i think these two things can work together, i don't see this as l indigo. i think these two things can work together, i don't see this as a binary choice. there is some great research from the social change lab which shows that radical action increases support for more moderate groups. increases support for more moderate urou s. . increases support for more moderate a rou n s. ., , increases support for more moderate urou s. ., , , ., groups. that is interesting. you think ou groups. that is interesting. you think you have _ groups. that is interesting. you think you have to _ groups. that is interesting. you think you have to go _ groups. that is interesting. you think you have to go that i groups. that is interesting. you think you have to go that far i groups. that is interesting. you think you have to go that far in | think you have to go that far in order to boost public support for say, the green party, for example. yes, if a topic isn't being spoken about, people are not forming an opinion on it. if radical action brings the conversation to the fore where people are forced to justify their position on oil and gas, then it gets spoken around across the country and we see this over to the window shift and more people take an informed choice. but window shift and more people take an informed choice.— informed choice. but you also turn a lot of people — informed choice. but you also turn a lot of people off _ informed choice. but you also turn a lot of people off as _ informed choice. but you also turn a lot of people off as well _ informed choice. but you also turn a lot of people off as well because i lot of people off as well because sometimes it crosses the line, you break the law. sometimes it crosses the line, you break the law— sometimes it crosses the line, you break the law. what we want to do is chan . e break the law. what we want to do is change people's _ break the law. what we want to do is change people's opinion _ break the law. what we want to do is change people's opinion on - break the law. what we want to do is change people's opinion on the i break the law. what we want to do is change people's opinion on the issuej change people's opinion on the issue and when ordinary people are presented with the facts, they will

side with the way forward, which is ending fossilfuel side with the way forward, which is ending fossil fuel production. this has been shown recently, when protesters are allowed to give evidence in court and testify about why they took action, juries work with them. so why they took action, “uries work with went why they took action, “uries work with them. , ., , ., ,, with them. so it is worth breaking the law to get _ with them. so it is worth breaking the law to get to _ with them. so it is worth breaking the law to get to a _ with them. so it is worth breaking the law to get to a crown - with them. so it is worth breaking the law to get to a crown court i with them. so it is worth breaking the law to get to a crown court to| the law to get to a crown court to explain it to a jury? it is the law to get to a crown court to explain it to a jury?— explain it to a “ury? it is worth takint explain it to a “ury? it is worth taking action, i explain it to a jury? it is worth taking action, resisting - explain it to a jury? it is worth taking action, resisting this i taking action, resisting this criminal government at this moment in time in order to this conversation create and to shift people's opinion.— conversation create and to shift people's opinion. rupert, when you were in xr. — people's opinion. rupert, when you were in xr. it— people's opinion. rupert, when you were in xr, it was _ people's opinion. rupert, when you were in xr, it was the _ people's opinion. rupert, when you were in xr, it was the protesters i people's opinion. rupert, when you | were in xr, it was the protesters on top of the tube train at canning town which was one of the things that turns you off. is that fair? you thought that was too much because it was stopping working people getting to work. that because it was stopping working people getting to work. that was a moment of — people getting to work. that was a moment of concern _ people getting to work. that was a moment of concern for— people getting to work. that was a moment of concern for many i people getting to work. that was a i moment of concern for many people in the movement and many people in the

ordinary— the movement and many people in the ordinary general public. what i am here for— ordinary general public. what i am here for is—