good morning, thanks for being there, watching or listening to the nation's phone in. this morning... sudan — what do you want to know? the uk government has just announced it is to begin evacuating british passport holders from sudan today. reports that it will commence in four or five hours. reports that it will commence in four orfive hours. around 4000 british citizens thought to be caught up in the conflict between two wings of the sudanese military. as ever, the strongmen doing their usual thing. as ever, the strongmen doing their usualthing. more as ever, the strongmen doing their usual thing. more than 400 people believed to have died, over 3000

injured, and the fighting began on the 15th of april. so we have got for you a panel of experts to answer your questions about the crisis, and to explore whether our government is doing enough to help. that is what were doing in the first hour, sudan — what do you want to know? here is the news from nick hatfield. the uk government says it is contacting uk nationals to offer them places on evacuation flights out of sudan. last night a three—day ceasefire came into force in the country. at least 400 people have died in fighting between rival groups. figures show the rate of grocery price rises have slowed slightly this month but analysts say

we are still paying 17.3% more than this time last year with sales of the very cheapest value line is increasing by 46%. senior health officials and a government minister are to face questions from mps are both problems and accessing an nhs dentist. the health and social care committee started and inquiry after a bbc investigation found 90% of dental practices across the uk are no longer taking on new adult nhs patient, and a hosepipe ban has come into force across large parts of devon, affecting about 390,000 homes. south—west water says the restriction will help top up reservoir supplies ahead of the summer. a ban is still in place from last summerfor cornwall summer. a ban is still in place from last summer for cornwall and a small part of north devon.

according to reports, the evacuation of british citizens from sudan will commence this morning. sudan — what do you want to know? there is loads to find out, your queries and your questions and you may have relatives caught up in the conflict as well. it is a kind of familiar story, two generals battling for control, the de facto leader of the country against the deputy, his erstwhile deputy, who has his own army, the rss militia force and this is all following the 2019 ousting of al bashir, and then another coup ousting the administration, civilian administration, the fighting is all about returning to civilian control, you will be forgiven for being rather cynical about their motives, the men with the medals, as ever, may have conflicting motives. there is the shadow foreign influences, even the shadow of putin in the background, links to the notorious

wagner group. the world food programme has warned that the violence could drive millions more into hunger in a country where one third of the population already needs aid. it is a desperately poor country, is it about the welfare of the people or control of, for example, the precious gold reserves? meanwhile it is about getting our people out. send us a text. any of your questions, experiences and thoughts on this, professorjan pospisil is in south sudan now, from the centre for trust, peace and social relations at coventry university. good morning, professor. good morning. what exactly is happening there now, what has it been like over the last couple of days? i been like over the last couple of da 5? . ., ., , days? i mean, i have not been in sudan, i days? i mean, i have not been in sudan. i am _ days? i mean, i have not been in sudan, i am in _ days? i mean, i have not been in sudan, i am in south _ days? i mean, i have not been in sudan, i am in south sudan, - days? i mean, i have not been in sudan, i am in south sudan, so i j days? i mean, i have not been in - sudan, i am in south sudan, so i am close but not in the situation, but what we hear is that basically the fighting is still going on, reports are coming in that there is a

ceasefire, from today, we have yet to see if this is really working out. there are concerns that now, with the internationals becoming more and more evacuated and more fighters becoming redeployed to khartoum, that the fighting might intensify even over the next days, but essentially it has been a cat and mouse game in khartoum between and mouse game in khartoum between an army that is superior in airpower, and strong tanks and heavy weaponry and a very agile, very quick moving rss, that has, what i hear, predominance on the ground in moving in around and attacking army installations, so this is so it is unclear who actually has control, it is a very moving situation, even in the town is. is a very moving situation, even in the town is-_ the town is. what do you mean by that? so, essentially _ the town is. what do you mean by that? so, essentially from - the town is. what do you mean by that? so, essentially from the - that? so, essentially from the beginning. _ that? so, essentially from the beginning. it _ that? so, essentially from the beginning, it was _ that? so, essentially from the beginning, it was essentially l that? so, essentially from the beginning, it was essentially a that? so, essentially from the - beginning, it was essentially a coup attempt by the jacket, which was one

of these two security factions, against the army that had the control —— the rapid support forces. and in fact, the president. they tried at first to capture the airpower of the army by attacking the airports in khartoum, and then starting to attack the main army headquarters, presidential palace in khartoum, but then also in other places within sudan. the problem now in sudan is that the military installations are strategically built in cities, not outside, so they are really where people live, which makes it almost like a shelter for the army, they use the civilians as a human shield, practically. this has been built like that for ever. 0h, has been built like that for ever. oh, when they go in now, the army comes back now with tanks and with the planes, they fought back in the fighting, bombs them, they go out of

these installations, again, the rsf, and then goes on again, so, they go in and out, in out of these installations, it is not a war of control. but a permanent cat and mouse game. in khartoum it has spread to basically all bigger sudanese cities, also in darfur and others. but darfur, of course, a location of terrible atrocities in the past, committed by the erstwhile regime. the past, committed by the erstwhile reaime. �* , ., , regime. and i believe the generals in question — regime. and i believe the generals in question were _ regime. and i believe the generals in question were somewhat - regime. and i believe the generals i in question were somewhat complicit as well in that. so, tell me about khartoum itself and the practicalities of getting people out of their, in geographical terms, is that straightforward? ida. of their, in geographicalterms, is that straightforward?— of their, in geographicalterms, is that straightforward? no, it is not. the problem _ that straightforward? no, it is not. the problem is _ that straightforward? no, it is not. the problem is that _ that straightforward? no, it is not. the problem is that you _ that straightforward? no, it is not. the problem is that you can - the problem is that you can absolutely not say who is doing what, and you cannot easily negotiate corridors. this was always going on over the last days, negotiating safe corridors for people who get evacuated, but this proved to be almost impossible. in

the first days, things happened like the first days, things happened like the residency of the european union ambassador got attacked, then they relocated the american ambassador within the city, the convoy got attacked, and you can imagine when they attacked a convoy of the american ambassador, then there is hardly any safe way to move. so, this made evacuation is very, very difficult, especially since the airports are one of the main theatres of the fighting. and the two airports that can be used for evacuation at the moment from what i understand is port sudan, where there is less fighting and the airport is still basically controllable, this is where the british went, and the cargo airstrip which is high risk and where you have you need basically more air dominance to secure it and this is what the americans used for their evacuation. we have got retired air

vice marshall, fighter pilot come with the raf, sean bell, tell me about the evacuation, how practical is it and how will it be undertaken? i am retired, is it and how will it be undertaken? iam retired, i is it and how will it be undertaken? i am retired, i left the military now, — i am retired, i left the military now. i— i am retired, i left the military now, i don't think many of the now, idon't think many of the military— now, i don't think many of the military would be able to talk to you about — military would be able to talk to you about it. i mean, it sounds simple — you about it. i mean, it sounds simple but _ you about it. i mean, it sounds simple but of course they are incredibly complicated, to do an airlift. _ incredibly complicated, to do an airlift. not— incredibly complicated, to do an airlift, not least of which you have -ot airlift, not least of which you have got to _ airlift, not least of which you have got to get — airlift, not least of which you have got to get aircraft as close as you come _ got to get aircraft as close as you come to— got to get aircraft as close as you come to the people you need to evacuate, — come to the people you need to evacuate, but khartoum airfield itself, _ evacuate, but khartoum airfield itself, as — evacuate, but khartoum airfield itself, as you have just heard, there — itself, as you have just heard, there seems to be so much chaos going _ there seems to be so much chaos going on— there seems to be so much chaos going on on— there seems to be so much chaos going on on the ground, that how on earth _ going on on the ground, that how on earth would — going on on the ground, that how on earth would you be able to securely guarantee _ earth would you be able to securely guarantee the safety of that aircraft? a big aircraft is very vulnerable, particularly to gunfire. and that _ vulnerable, particularly to gunfire. and that would not be one or two people _ and that would not be one or two people daion, you would be having hundreds— people daion, you would be having hundreds of people dying, so, choosing — hundreds of people dying, so, choosing the right airfield, i understand that they chose the military— understand that they chose the military airfield just to the north of khartoum, to be able to use, to

evacuate — of khartoum, to be able to use, to evacuate. then you have got to get, how are _ evacuate. then you have got to get, how are people going to be getting to that _ how are people going to be getting to that airfield? and that is their own responsibility, i understand that you — own responsibility, i understand that you have got to contact people -et that you have got to contact people get them _ that you have got to contact people get them out there. then there is how much— get them out there. then there is how much baggage people take, i know it sounds— how much baggage people take, i know it sounds practical but if you are abandoning somewhere, you are going to want— abandoning somewhere, you are going to want to _ abandoning somewhere, you are going to want to take your kitchen sink with you. — to want to take your kitchen sink with you, but every single baggage means— with you, but every single baggage means there is one fewer space for people _ means there is one fewer space for people. and then you've got inevitably some people who have got some handicaps or medical conditions or whateven — some handicaps or medical conditions or whatever. so, there is a huge complexity _ or whatever. so, there is a huge complexity. as i understand it, there _ complexity. as i understand it, there is— complexity. as i understand it, there is a — complexity. as i understand it, there is a 72 hour ceasefire, there is a 2how— there is a 72 hour ceasefire, there is a 24—hour window and what they are going _ is a 24—hour window and what they are going to— is a 24—hour window and what they are going to try and do is get some aircraft. _ are going to try and do is get some aircraft, military transport aircraft. _ aircraft, military transport aircraft, in, and again, the royal air force — aircraft, in, and again, the royal air force is — aircraft, in, and again, the royal air force is relatively small, it is deployed — air force is relatively small, it is deployed on operations around the world _ deployed on operations around the world at— deployed on operations around the world at the moment, you don't have these _ world at the moment, you don't have these aircraftjust world at the moment, you don't have these aircraft just waiting at an airport. — these aircraft just waiting at an airport, just waiting to fly into sudan — airport, just waiting to fly into sudan to— airport, just waiting to fly into sudan to pull people out of they have _ sudan to pull people out of they have got — sudan to pull people out of they have got to be taken off live operations in order to reconfigure

them _ operations in order to reconfigure them to— operations in order to reconfigure them to be — operations in order to reconfigure them to be able to fly passengers. so it is— them to be able to fly passengers. so it is quite a complicated activity. _ so it is quite a complicated activity, and we haven't even got onto _ activity, and we haven't even got onto how — activity, and we haven't even got onto how do you prioritise who gets onto how do you prioritise who gets on these _ onto how do you prioritise who gets on these flights i read this morning that there — on these flights i read this morning that there are some folks in sudan, some _ that there are some folks in sudan, some british nationals, who were grumpy— some british nationals, who were grumpy that some of the embassy staff were a priority, and however, ithink— staff were a priority, and however, i think one — staff were a priority, and however, i think one of your guests can probably— i think one of your guests can probably talk to this but one of the reasons— probably talk to this but one of the reasons we — probably talk to this but one of the reasons we have embassy staff, and we expect _ reasons we have embassy staff, and we expect them to stay during very difficult _ we expect them to stay during very difficult times, is that the british government also guarantees that they will do _ government also guarantees that they will do everything possible to extract — will do everything possible to extract them should they come under some _ extract them should they come under some sort— extract them should they come under some sort of danger. so, understandably, they have a degree of priority — understandably, they have a degree of priority. so, it is a complex situation, _ of priority. so, it is a complex situation, potentially 4000 people trying _ situation, potentially 4000 people trying to— situation, potentially 4000 people trying to identify where they are, -et trying to identify where they are, get them — trying to identify where they are, get them all to one place, through enemy— get them all to one place, through enemy fighting et cetera and then -et enemy fighting et cetera and then get them — enemy fighting et cetera and then get them safely out, that is not a simple _ get them safely out, that is not a simple undertaking. back get them safely out, that is not a simple undertaking.—

simple undertaking. back to you, professor. _ simple undertaking. back to you, professor, was _ simple undertaking. back to you, professor, was this _ simple undertaking. back to you, professor, was this clearly - simple undertaking. back to you, professor, was this clearly going | simple undertaking. back to you, l professor, was this clearly going to happen or did it come out of the blue? ~ ., ._ happen or did it come out of the blue? . . , , ., , blue? well, in a way, the tensions were rising — blue? well, in a way, the tensions were rising for _ blue? well, in a way, the tensions were rising for quite _ blue? well, in a way, the tensions were rising for quite some - blue? well, in a way, the tensions were rising for quite some time. i blue? well, in a way, the tensions| were rising for quite some time. so it was kind of clear that there is something that could explode, potentially, basically, so, what happened was, there was this framework agreement signed, and essentially, this happened several months ago and one part of this agreement was the integration of the army, so, the rapid support forces, one of these two security factions now fighting, was meant to be integrated into the regular army, and it was very clear that the army wanted this to happen very quickly, whereas the rsf, protecting their own interests, wanted to have this happening further down the road, they spoke about ten years, they had no interest in that. and from that moment onwards, the tensions is collected, there was a workshop on security arrangements, to push back the signing of the final agreement on which was to be on the 6th of

april, that the date passed by and it was kind of there is no solution to this problem. so what then happened was, the surprising element comes in, you know there is tension is rising but you never know, you can never know, if they are really exploding and when. so, i spoke with people in khartoum the friday before it happened and they were, like, it is all fine, it is not an issue, we know there are tensions... and at the same time, what happened was that they had their troops in place to attack the airports to get military headquarters in khartoum and also, like, the sudanese broadcasting of the television. so, there was already everything in place, on saturday morning, but of course, like, friday afternoon, evening, nobody really knew that it would happen on saturday. ma evening, nobody really knew that it would happen on saturday. m0 in would happen on saturday. mo in readin: is would happen on saturday. mo in reading is with _ would happen on saturday. mo in reading is with us, _ would happen on saturday. mo in reading is with us, you _ would happen on saturday. mo in reading is with us, you have - would happen on saturday. mo in reading is with us, you have got| reading is with us, you have got relatives in sudan, how are you feeling at the moment, mo? goad feeling at the moment, mo? good mornin: , feeling at the moment, mo? good

morning, nikki. _ feeling at the moment, mo? good morning, nikki. yes, _ feeling at the moment, mo? (limp. morning, nikki. yes, obviously, very scared for my family, and for the people of sudan watching the images has been horrific over this time. even as the professor says, it has all been bubbling all this time, nobody envisaged the images that we are seeing at the moment and the scale of the conflict has just been unbelievable, really. scale of the conflict has 'ust been unbelievable, really._ scale of the conflict has 'ust been unbelievable, really. when did your relatives arrive _ unbelievable, really. when did your relatives arrive there? _ relatives arrive there? unfortunately for them, they actually arrived the day before it all kicked off. and unfortunately for them, they were right in the heart of khartoum, between the actual presidential republic palace and the main headquarters for the army. so, these are the kind of areas that were most impacted in terms of conflict. and areas that were most impacted in terms of conflict.—

terms of conflict. and what is the actual situation _ terms of conflict. and what is the actual situation in _ terms of conflict. and what is the actual situation in terms - terms of conflict. and what is the actual situation in terms of - terms of conflict. and what is the actual situation in terms of food i actual situation in terms of food and support for your relatives at the moment?— and support for your relatives at the moment? , ., , the moment? so, they actually were in that area — the moment? so, they actually were in that area for _ the moment? so, they actually were in that area for the _ the moment? so, they actually were in that area for the first _ the moment? so, they actually were in that area for the first five - the moment? so, they actually were in that area for the first five days - in that area for the first five days with no electricity, water running out, they were kind of isolated, but they made that decision because at they made that decision because at the moment, as has been explained by your other guests, everything is a risk now. it is a risk whether you want to travel out, it is a risk if you want to go to egypt, which is what my wife's family have just done, they've been travelling for three days and have just got to egypt. even getting to this airport which is being looked at to be picking up and evacuating brits from, that in itself is going to be hard to get to. so, after those five days, they kind of literallyjust basically had to bite the bullet, excuse the pun, but basically then got to a safer area and they are

there now, at the moment. so, supplies are good, they have got electricity and water, which is great but obviously that is not the same for everybody else. and great but obviously that is not the same for everybody else. and what do you think about _ same for everybody else. and what do you think about what _ same for everybody else. and what do you think about what is actually - you think about what is actually happening, this power struggle between these two generals? yes. happening, this power struggle between these two generals? yes, so, obviousl , between these two generals? yes, so, obviously. in — between these two generals? yes, so, obviously. in any _ between these two generals? yes, so, obviously, in any kind _ between these two generals? yes, so, obviously, in any kind of— between these two generals? yes, so, obviously, in any kind of country - obviously, in any kind of country you want there to be law and order, you want there to be law and order, you have the army to be in control, but unfortunately, with the army, and they created this guy with this rapid support forces, they created them themselves and now they are having to fight them because they've got this power struggle, but purely the power struggle has got nothing to do with democracy, and they do not want really a civilian—led government because that probably is the end of them, the end of their,

there's probably would put them for other things that they have been getting up to and being brought to justice, so probably that is the least of the things that they want. stay there, i know you've got more to say. a consultant doctor is in manchester, you have relatives there, what i your feelings today, good morning?— there, what i your feelings today, good morning? thank you for having me toda , good morning? thank you for having me today. nicky- — good morning? thank you for having me today, nicky. it _ good morning? thank you for having me today, nicky. it is _ good morning? thank you for having me today, nicky. it is an _ me today, nicky. it is an unbelievable feeling, and i wasn't even _ unbelievable feeling, and i wasn't even in _ unbelievable feeling, and i wasn't even in my— unbelievable feeling, and i wasn't even in my worst nightmare would be able to— even in my worst nightmare would be able to expect that i would be faced by this— able to expect that i would be faced by this one — able to expect that i would be faced by this one day. i have family in sudan. — by this one day. i have family in sudan. my— by this one day. i have family in sudan, my parents, my sisters, my extended _ sudan, my parents, my sisters, my extended family, they are all, most of them. _ extended family, they are all, most

of them. in — extended family, they are all, most of them, in khartoum, a different part of— of them, in khartoum, a different part ofthe— of them, in khartoum, a different part of the extended family are stranded — part of the extended family are stranded in different parts of khartoum. as we speak now, on the phone. _ khartoum. as we speak now, on the phone. with — khartoum. as we speak now, on the phone, with my family, they already left their— phone, with my family, they already left their home to flee and find a safe place — left their home to flee and find a safe place to go to, you know, while at least _ safe place to go to, you know, while at least there is a ceasefire for 72 hours. _ at least there is a ceasefire for 72 hours. it— at least there is a ceasefire for 72 hours. it is— at least there is a ceasefire for 72 hours. it isjust a shock to at least there is a ceasefire for 72 hours. it is just a shock to all of us. |_ hours. it is 'ust a shock to all of us. . . hours. it is 'ust a shock to all of us. . , , , ., ., hours. it is 'ust a shock to all of us. i mean, it is desperate for you at the moment, _ us. i mean, it is desperate for you at the moment, and _ us. i mean, it is desperate for you at the moment, and do _ us. i mean, it is desperate for you at the moment, and do they - us. i mean, it is desperate for you at the moment, and do they want| us. i mean, it is desperate for you l at the moment, and do they want to leave the country?— leave the country? well, at the moment i _ leave the country? well, at the moment i don't _ leave the country? well, at the moment i don't think _ leave the country? well, at the moment i don't think it's - leave the country? well, at the i moment i don't think it's possible. they— moment i don't think it's possible. they are _ moment i don't think it's possible. they are trying to head to rural areas. — they are trying to head to rural areas, particularly probably north part of— areas, particularly probably north part of sudan. the route there is not that — part of sudan. the route there is not that easy, even the transport,

like. _ not that easy, even the transport, like. this— not that easy, even the transport, like, this morning, they had to stay the night _ like, this morning, they had to stay the night with friends but they were not able _ the night with friends but they were not able to get any bus to take them. — not able to get any bus to take them. so — not able to get any bus to take them, so they had to go back home. hoping _ them, so they had to go back home. hoping that — them, so they had to go back home. hoping that they will try again. there — hoping that they will try again. there is— hoping that they will try again. there is no fuel, as you can understand, there is no cars. how will this resolve _ understand, there is no cars. how will this resolve itself? _ understand, there is no cars. how will this resolve itself? resolve i will this resolve itself? resolve itself? how _ will this resolve itself? resolve itself? how will _ will this resolve itself? resolve itself? how will it _ will this resolve itself? resolve itself? how will it come - will this resolve itself? resolve itself? how will it come to - will this resolve itself? resolve | itself? how will it come to some eace itself? how will it come to some peace arrangement, _ itself? how will it come to some peace arrangement, how- itself? how will it come to some peace arrangement, how will. itself? how will it come to some peace arrangement, how will it | itself? how will it come to some - peace arrangement, how will it end? well, the two generals need to listen _ well, the two generals need to listen and to stop this war immediately. and i would like to take this — immediately. and i would like to take this opportunity to call for help from international authorities are particularly here, from british authorities, to at least advocate an

immediate — authorities, to at least advocate an immediate and continuous ceasefire, and as— immediate and continuous ceasefire, and as a _ immediate and continuous ceasefire, and as a doctor, i really want people — and as a doctor, i really want people to _ and as a doctor, i really want people to pay attention, particularly to the hospital situation there. most of the hospital— situation there. most of the hospital are non—functioning now, part of— hospital are non—functioning now, part of it — hospital are non—functioning now, part of it is — hospital are non—functioning now, part of it is due to an actual, direct— part of it is due to an actual, direct fire _ part of it is due to an actual, direct fire shooting, and ambulance crews— direct fire shooting, and ambulance crews are _ direct fire shooting, and ambulance crews are not able to reach hospitals. we are in direct contact with the _ hospitals. we are in direct contact with the sudan doctor union in sudan. — with the sudan doctor union in sudan, they are really struggling to continue _ sudan, they are really struggling to continue work there, they are exhausted, there is no safe route for medical— exhausted, there is no safe route for medical personnel to exchange, there _ for medical personnel to exchange, there is— for medical personnel to exchange, there is no— for medical personnel to exchange, there is no safe routes for supplies and there _ there is no safe routes for supplies and there is— there is no safe routes for supplies and there is no safe route, even the

blood _ and there is no safe route, even the blood bank— and there is no safe route, even the blood bank is not working. it is a real disaster, and humanitarian crisis _ real disaster, and humanitarian crisis there. as a sudan doctor union— crisis there. as a sudan doctor union here. _ crisis there. as a sudan doctor union here, we are working hard day and night. _ union here, we are working hard day and night, we are in contact with different— and night, we are in contact with different bodies around the world, sudanese — different bodies around the world, sudanese doctors, we are raising money. — sudanese doctors, we are raising money. but — sudanese doctors, we are raising money, but all of this is not going to work— money, but all of this is not going to work if— money, but all of this is not going to work if there is no safe routes for those — to work if there is no safe routes for those important supplies. and let me bring _ for those important supplies. fific let me bring in the bbc's west let me bring in the bbc�*s west africa correspondent, who is in lagos in nigeria, the other side of africa. this is already, sudan, a desperately poor and troubled country? desperately poor and troubled count ? . desperately poor and troubled count ? , , country? yes, absolutely. even before the _ country? yes, absolutely. even before the conflict _ country? yes, absolutely. even before the conflict started, - country? yes, absolutely. even before the conflict started, and some have argued that actually the

poor economic situation of sudan is one of the reasons why these two armed forces have come to blows. already before the conflict started, the sudanese economy was really struggling, the us had promised some development aid, some money to the country, as a kind of encouragement in the process of transitioning to democracy when in 2021 the army rejected joint civilian and military government the us halted that delivery of funds that lead to, you know, depreciation in the currency and an increase in food prices, a lot of people who travelled to sudan in the last six months talked about having to spend a lot more money to buy basic things like lunch and goods. so, things were already difficult before this latest conflict, and now there are fears that even if the two warring parties, that is the sudanese army

and the rapid support forces, even if their leaders were to come to the table and negotiate, the amount of damage that has been done to the infrastructure, to electricity, running water, internet, which has been down since sunday, it will cost a lot of money to repair and there are fears that the country sibley cannot afford it at the moment. and cannot afford it at the moment. and how do people get out? so - cannot afford it at the moment. and how do people get out? so at - cannot afford it at the moment. and how do people get out? so at the i how do people get out? so at the moment people _ how do people get out? so at the moment people are _ how do people get out? so at the moment people are getting - how do people get out? so at the moment people are getting out i how do people get out? so at the | moment people are getting out in how do people get out? so at the i moment people are getting out in a number of ways, particularly overnight, since the latest ceasefire, we are getting mixed reports, some say there is a little bit of fighting going on on the outskirts of khartoum but certainly an uneasy calm seems to have descended upon the city, people are taking advantage of that to go by bus, some are driving to the border with egypt, others are going to port sudan, where there are reports of british naval ships may be on standby to eventually take citizens out. people are unfortunately finding that because the buses are in such high demand, the prices of

seats on those buses are climbing up. i spoke to a british man this morning, he sentamu whatsapp messages because he was trying to save battery on phonecalls, he said he showed up at a bus stop and the price of the seats had doubled and there are six memos of his family, so it was turning out to be quite a lot more money than he planned to spend. lot more money than he planned to send. . ~' ,, lot more money than he planned to send. . ~' , . lot more money than he planned to send. ., ,, , . �* , spend. thank you very much. i'm 'ust wondering. — spend. thank you very much. i'm 'ust wondering, professor i spend. thank you very much. i'm 'ust wondering, professorjan i spend. thank you very much. i'm just wondering, professorjan pospisil, i wondering, professorjan pospisil, the military factions, do they have their supporters outwith the country, foreign actors, as they say? country, foreign actors, as they sa ? ~ , . , . say? well, yes, definitely, there is real influences _ say? well, yes, definitely, there is real influences on _ say? well, yes, definitely, there is real influences on both _ say? well, yes, definitely, there is real influences on both sides, - say? well, yes, definitely, there is| real influences on both sides, there has been _ real influences on both sides, there has been a — real influences on both sides, there has been a long—standing relationship between the sudanese army and _ relationship between the sudanese army and egypt. there was even in the beginning egyptian soldiers in sudan _ the beginning egyptian soldiers in sudan at — the beginning egyptian soldiers in sudan at the airstrips. there have been _ sudan at the airstrips. there have been now— sudan at the airstrips. there have been now from what i hear evacuated, rsf even _ been now from what i hear evacuated, rsf even captured some of those. 0n the other— rsf even captured some of those. 0n the other hand, rsf, the rapid

support— the other hand, rsf, the rapid support forces, i mean, they were the backbone of the sudanese troops that fought in yemen, the war, basically— that fought in yemen, the war, basically on the payroll of the united — basically on the payroll of the united arab emirates, so, basically, they are _ united arab emirates, so, basically, they are and — united arab emirates, so, basically, they are and a lot of money fighting in yemen— they are and a lot of money fighting in yemen on the uae payroll, and also libya. — in yemen on the uae payroll, and also libya, on the side ofth fans can factor. — also libya, on the side ofth fans can factor. what they also have is control— can factor. what they also have is control over — can factor. what they also have is control over the goldmines in the north— control over the goldmines in the north of— control over the goldmines in the north of darfur and more broadly in the north— north of darfur and more broadly in the north of— north of darfur and more broadly in the north of sudan, which gives them an enormous— the north of sudan, which gives them an enormous source of income and which _ an enormous source of income and which attracts also other international actors and who is very strong _ international actors and who is very strong there are the russians. for years— strong there are the russians. for years now— strong there are the russians. for years now there is a relationship between — years now there is a relationship between the rsf and the 5—0 group, which _ between the rsf and the 5—0 group, which is _ between the rsf and the 5—0 group, which is essentially in a nutshell lold which is essentially in a nutshell gold versus military training and weaponry. — gold versus military training and weaponry. so, wagner is supplying arms. _ weaponry. so, wagner is supplying arms, delivering military training, at the _ arms, delivering military training, at the same time they get out gold which _ at the same time they get out gold which is _ at the same time they get out gold which is now even in russia in high demand. _ which is now even in russia in high demand. and russia in general also

has a _ demand. and russia in general also has a huge — demand. and russia in general also has a huge interest in sudan because they have _ has a huge interest in sudan because they have just negotiated the establishment of a naval base at the sudanese _ establishment of a naval base at the sudanese red sea coast, which would enable _ sudanese red sea coast, which would enable them basically a corridor through to central african republic and chad. — through to central african republic and chad, where they have huge interests — and chad, where they have huge interests at the moment, and libya where _ interests at the moment, and libya where they— interests at the moment, and libya where they are also very active and also since — where they are also very active and also since they are in mali, this whole — also since they are in mali, this whole thing stretches for almost the whole _ whole thing stretches for almost the whole continent now, with new gel being _ whole continent now, with new gel being basically the only blockage that prevents russia from having allies _ that prevents russia from having allies throughout basically the whole — allies throughout basically the whole continent.— allies throughout basically the whole continent. . ., ., whole continent. lets enow from the foreian whole continent. lets enow from the foreign secretary _ whole continent. lets enow from the foreign secretary james _ whole continent. lets enow from the foreign secretary james cleverly - whole continent. lets enow from the j foreign secretary james cleverly who foreign secretary james cleverly who has just been speaking to our political correspondent nick eardley. political correspondent nick eardle . . . political correspondent nick eardle . , ., eardley. the last few days we have been doing — eardley. the last few days we have been doing extensive _ eardley. the last few days we have been doing extensive planning - eardley. the last few days we have i been doing extensive planning across government departments and with our international partners to take advantage of any improvement in the situation and begin the evacuation of british nationals in sudan. i'm

very pleased that a ceasefire has been announced by the leadership of the factions on the ground, and therefore we are initiating an evacuation plan. it is important to remember that ceasefires have been announced and have fallen apart in the past so the situation remains dangerous, volatile and unpredictable. i've spoken either directly or through intermediaries with the leaders of the factions on the ground, calling for them to allow british nationals, dual nationals and children, to be evacuated, and we will continue to push for the maintenance of this ceasefire. 0f push for the maintenance of this ceasefire. of course, it is impossible for us to predict how long this opportunity will last and we are calling people forward in priority order based on their ability. priority order based on their abili . , ., , ., .,, priority order based on their abili . , ., , ., ., ability. there is a question as to what exactly _ ability. there is a question as to what exactly that _ ability. there is a question as to what exactly that means, -

ability. there is a question as to | what exactly that means, priority order, which has already been raised by one of our guests, mo in reading, you have relatives there, i wonder what your reaction is to what we heard from the foreign secretary, james cleverly there? is it enough, is it soon enough? fine james cleverly there? is it enough, is it soon enough?— james cleverly there? is it enough, is it soon enough? one thing i would sa with is it soon enough? one thing i would say with the — is it soon enough? one thing i would say with the ceasefire, _ is it soon enough? one thing i would say with the ceasefire, there - is it soon enough? one thing i would say with the ceasefire, there has - say with the ceasefire, there has been many ceasefires that have been promised that have not actually come to fruition. so, that would be my first point on that. in terms of my family, they haven't been contacted, but also obviously what about the other people? we are not going to help as much as we can. the other thing that i would say is that other countries have already managed to get people out, so we are we kind of at the back of the queue? goad at the back of the queue? good mornin: at the back of the queue? good morning to _ at the back of the queue? good morning to you. _ at the back of the queue? good morning to you. tell— at the back of the queue? good morning to you. tell me - at the back of the queue? good morning to you. tell me aboutl

at the back of the queue? good morning to you. tell me about your husband, i believe he is there. yes. whereabouts? _ husband, i believe he is there. yes. whereabouts? he _ husband, i believe he is there. yes. whereabouts? he is _ husband, i believe he is there. yes. whereabouts? he is in _ husband, i believe he is there. yes. whereabouts? he is in khartoum, l husband, i believe he is there. yes. | whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in husband, i believe he is there. yes. i whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in a lace whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in a place called — whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in a place called rushab, _ whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in a place called rushab, so _ whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in a place called rushab, so he _ whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in a place called rushab, so he is- whereabouts? he is in khartoum, in a place called rushab, so he is stuck- place called rushab, so he is stuck in there _ place called rushab, so he is stuck in there with my sister's family. tell me — in there with my sister's family. tell me about what you are thinking at the moment about this dreadful situation? to at the moment about this dreadful situation? ., . at the moment about this dreadful situation? ., , ., , situation? to be honest, so emotional. _ situation? to be honest, so emotional, i— situation? to be honest, so emotional, i can't _ situation? to be honest, so emotional, i can't even - situation? to be honest, so emotional, i can't even talkj situation? to be honest, so - emotional, i can't even talk about it. because — emotional, i can't even talk about it. because we've got friends, some of them _ it. because we've got friends, some of them they died, and families, and i of them they died, and families, and i don't _ of them they died, and families, and i don't know... did of them they died, and families, and i don't know- - -_ i don't know... did you think this would happen? _ i don't know... did you think this would happen? did _ i don't know... did you think this would happen? did you - i don't know... did you think this would happen? did you think - i don't know... did you think this i would happen? did you think there was an obvious build—up to this? never. never, ever in my life, i nevei’. _ never. never, ever in my life, i never. ever— never. never, ever in my life, i never, everthought never. never, ever in my life, i never, ever thought this would happen— never, ever thought this would happen in— never, ever thought this would happen in sudan. it isjust a shock to all— happen in sudan. it isjust a shock to all of— happen in sudan. it isjust a shock to all of us. — happen in sudan. it isjust a shock to all of us. we happen in sudan. it is 'ust a shock to an of us.— to all of us. we know about the revious to all of us. we know about the previous atrocities, _ to all of us. we know about the previous atrocities, we - to all of us. we know about the previous atrocities, we know. to all of us. we know about the . previous atrocities, we know about what happened in darfur, albert shiho, the former president, standing accused of, but nothing

like this, you did not expect it to reach this?— like this, you did not expect it to reach this? ., ., , . , reach this? not to this extent. just a nightmare- _ reach this? not to this extent. just a nightmare. and _ reach this? not to this extent. just a nightmare. and i— reach this? not to this extent. just a nightmare. and i don't _ reach this? not to this extent. just a nightmare. and i don't know. - reach this? not to this extent. just| a nightmare. and i don't know. just i a nightmare. and i don't know. just idon't _ a nightmare. and i don't know. just idon't know. — i don't know, to be honest. i can't even _ i don't know, to be honest. i can't even talk. — i don't know, to be honest. i can't even talk-— even talk. it's got a view to get in touch to express _ even talk. it's got a view to get in touch to express this _ even talk. it's got a view to get in touch to express this and - even talk. it's got a view to get in touch to express this and it - even talk. it's got a view to get in touch to express this and it says i touch to express this and it says everything. we can hear exactly what you are feeling in your heart from what you are saying. when did you last speak to your husband? i had a text from him _ last speak to your husband? i had a text from him this _ last speak to your husband? i had a text from him this morning. - last speak to your husband? i had a text from him this morning. i - last speak to your husband? i had a | text from him this morning. i talked to him _ text from him this morning. i talked to him yesterday. the problems are getting _ to him yesterday. the problems are getting worse. we are in contact, 'ust getting worse. we are in contact, just texting. yesterday i spoke to him in _ just texting. yesterday i spoke to him in the — just texting. yesterday i spoke to him in the morning. afterthat

just texting. yesterday i spoke to him in the morning. after that i couldn't— him in the morning. after that i couldn't because i think there is an intermittent problem. he had the chance _ intermittent problem. he had the chance to — intermittent problem. he had the chance to text us in the early hours of this— chance to text us in the early hours of this morning but when i called him this— of this morning but when i called him this morning i couldn't get through— him this morning i couldn't get through to him. wright feel free to speak— through to him. wright feel free to speakto _ through to him. wright feel free to sea . ., , ., through to him. wright feel free to sea ., , ., ., through to him. wright feel free to slrea ., , ., ., . speak to us. you have so much in common with _ speak to us. you have so much in common with what _ speak to us. you have so much in common with what you _ speak to us. you have so much in common with what you are - speak to us. you have so much in common with what you are going| common with what you are going through at the moment. fii common with what you are going through at the moment. of course, i can feelfor— through at the moment. of course, i can feel for you. _ through at the moment. of course, i can feel for you. as _ through at the moment. of course, i can feel for you. as we _ through at the moment. of course, i can feel for you. as we speak - through at the moment. of course, i can feel for you. as we speak now, i can feel for you. as we speak now, my close friend, living in manchester, she has family in sudan but she is struggling to make her way. she is an irish citizen, her husband is a doctor working here. she has four children. the youngest is four years old and her husband

has to stay at home to look after them. she went to see a brother who was diagnosed with cancer and was on chemotherapy. her brother is now trapped in the house. the people with him can't leave the house. because of him it's difficult to leave the house. she left her family here. she had to leave her brother and come back to look after her family. i don't know what's happening to her, there is no connection since she left the house. her husband was meant to come today actually but he has to look after his children so he wasn't able to come. this isjust one example his children so he wasn't able to come. this is just one example of too many stories that i know about. i have a junior doctor who has travelled there and is trapped there with her husband in sudan. she

doesn't even have a british passport but she is an nhs worker but i don't know what will happen to her because she is not counted in this new solution to evacuate people. i can feel you, and me and you, we are just one example of millions of people in sudan who are suffering. i agree with you, it is an unexpected nightmare. we are just calling for people to help. at most to help with a ceasefire, continue this immediate ceasefire. people in sudan, there is lots of innocent people who have lost their life already.—

lost their life already. would you like to say _ lost their life already. would you like to say anything _ lost their life already. would you like to say anything else? - lost their life already. would you like to say anything else? one i lost their life already. would you j like to say anything else? one of lost their life already. would you - like to say anything else? one of my colleaaues like to say anything else? one of my colleagues is — like to say anything else? one of my colleagues is an _ like to say anything else? one of my colleagues is an nhs _ like to say anything else? one of my colleagues is an nhs worker - like to say anything else? one of my colleagues is an nhs worker who - colleagues is an nhs worker who works— colleagues is an nhs worker who works with me in the same hospital. her brother— works with me in the same hospital. her brother went to stay with his family— her brother went to stay with his family for— her brother went to stay with his family for eid. he is only in his 20s. _ family for eid. he is only in his 20s. he — family for eid. he is only in his 205. he has died because of a gunshot. _ 205. he has died because of a gunshot. she was crying, it was the gun5hot. she was crying, it was the day before — gun5hot. she was crying, it was the day before yesterday and it makes me so sad. _ day before yesterday and it makes me so sad. another friend has a brother who so 5ad. another friend has a brother who is— so 5ad. another friend has a brother who is 35— so sad. another friend has a brother who is 35 and he lives in saudi arabia — who is 35 and he lives in saudi arabia and _ who is 35 and he lives in saudi arabia and just went to see his mum and dad _ arabia and just went to see his mum and dad because eid wa5 arabia and just went to see his mum and dad because eid was coming. he had a _ and dad because eid was coming. he had a baby. — and dad because eid was coming. he had a baby, three months old, and he has left _ had a baby, three months old, and he has left his— had a baby, three months old, and he has left his wife with their other four children in saudi arabia,

planning _ four children in saudi arabia, planning to come back a few days before _ planning to come back a few days before eid. — planning to come back a few days before eid. they were in a car, trying — before eid. they were in a car, trying to— before eid. they were in a car, trying to get out of khartoum to go to a safer— trying to get out of khartoum to go to a safer place. people met him, they stopped the car and he was trying _ they stopped the car and he was trying to— they stopped the car and he was trying to protect his mother and he was shot— trying to protect his mother and he was shot dead in the car with his mother— was shot dead in the car with his mother and _ was shot dead in the car with his mother and his three sisters in the car. it's_ mother and his three sisters in the car. it'sjust— mother and his three sisters in the car. it'5ju5t a nightmare. it'5 mother and his three sisters in the car. it'5ju5t a nightmare. it's a story— car. it'5ju5t a nightmare. it's a story that — car. it'5ju5t a nightmare. it's a story that you hear. i don't know when _ story that you hear. i don't know when it — 5tory that you hear. i don't know when it will— story that you hear. i don't know when it will finish. after hearing you both on the radio, i know you and your families will be in the thoughts of everybody listening and watching. thank you so much for getting in touch this morning. 08085 909693. take care and

text us on 85058. we are talking about sudan. what do you want to know? more to come. and here is the news with nick. the uk government is starting evacuation flights to help british nationals leave sudan. around 4,000 uk citizens are thought to be in the country. a three—day ceasefire was called last night by rival factions of the sudanese military. a £301 payment will start dropping into accounts from today to help around 8 million households cope with the high cost of living. it's for people on means—tested benefits. further payments will be made in the autumn and next spring. the welsh government is to formally apologise to unmarried mothers who were subjected to forced adoptions in the 50s, 60s and 70s. a uk parliament inquiry has

estimated that 185,000 babies were affected across england and wales. a hosepipe ban is being enforced in large parts of devon to help top up reservoir supplies ahead of the summer. there's still a ban in place for cornwall and a smaller part of north devon, from last summer. katie smith has the sport. mauricio pochettino at chelsea could be a winning combination says former striker chris sutton. the ex—spurs boss is in talks with chelsea and is thought to be keen though no deal is done yet. it's also not yet known if he would take over straight away — currently frank lampard is in temporary charge until the end of the season — he's without a win in his four matches so far. and four games was all that christian stellini was given before he was sacked as interim spurs boss by chairman daniel levy. he says he takes responsilibity for their unacceptable performance at newcastle where they went down 5—0 inside 21 minutes. ryan mason has been given the reigns as the search for a permanent boss continues. to cricket — england batter jonny bairstow makes his return from injury this morning.

he's in the squad for yorkshire's 2nd xi against nottinghamshire at headingley. and the world snooker quarterfinals get underway in half an hour at the crucible — ronnie 0'sullivan is looking for a record breaking 8th title — he's up against luca brecel in the best of 25 frame match.

coming up at ten o'clock, more on sudan between now and then with some very powerful calls so far and more expertise and also calls from people with relatives there in this desperate situation coming up between now and ten. and at ten o'clock... dental health in crisis — how do we fix it? an inquiry�*s being held into nhs dentisry in england, with ministers facing questions from the health and social care select committee later. nhs charges for dental treatment are shooting up. when we have talked about dentistry on the programme before we have had some eye watering examples of people taking matters into their own hands. trying to get a dentist right now isn't easy. we will be talking about that at ten o'clock so get in touch.

retired air vice marshal sean bell is with us. and the former uk ambassador to sudan sir nicholas kay joins us. ambassador to sudan sir nicholas kay “oins us. ,., ., ., ambassador to sudan sir nicholas kay joins us-_ we i joins us. good morning, nikki. we are getting — joins us. good morning, nikki. we are getting some _ joins us. good morning, nikki. we are getting some desperate - joins us. good morning, nikki. we| are getting some desperate people joins us. good morning, nikki. we - are getting some desperate people on the phone this morning. yasin is from north—west london. sir nicholas you might want to react after we heard from him. tell us about your father. ma; heard from him. tell us about your father. ~ , . ., , heard from him. tell us about your father. g . ., , ., ., father. my father was in london with me and on the _ father. my father was in london with me and on the 19th _ father. my father was in london with me and on the 19th of— father. my father was in london with me and on the 19th of april, - father. my father was in london with me and on the 19th of april, he - father. my father was in london with me and on the 19th of april, he went to sudan— me and on the 19th of april, he went to sudan for— me and on the 19th of april, he went to sudan for a — me and on the 19th of april, he went to sudan for a business _ me and on the 19th of april, he went to sudan for a business trip. - me and on the 19th of april, he went to sudan for a business trip. 0n - me and on the 19th of april, he went to sudan for a business trip. 0n the i

to sudan for a business trip. 0n the 19th of— to sudan for a business trip. 0n the 19th of april— to sudan for a business trip. 0n the 19th of april he _ to sudan for a business trip. 0n the 19th of april he left _ to sudan for a business trip. 0n the 19th of april he left his _ to sudan for a business trip. 0n the 19th of april he left his home - to sudan for a business trip. 0n the 19th of april he left his home in- 19th of april he left his home in search— 19th of april he left his home in search of— 19th of april he left his home in search of a _ 19th of april he left his home in search of a shop _ 19th of april he left his home in search of a shop because - 19th of april he left his home in search of a shop because he . 19th of april he left his home inl search of a shop because he had 19th of april he left his home in- search of a shop because he had run out 5earch of a shop because he had run out of— search of a shop because he had run out of food. — search of a shop because he had run out of food. he _ search of a shop because he had run out of food. he was _ search of a shop because he had run out of food. he was abducted - search of a shop because he had run out of food. he was abducted by- search of a shop because he had run out of food. he was abducted by thej out of food. he was abducted by the rsf forces. — out of food. he was abducted by the rsf forces. it— out of food. he was abducted by the rsf forces. it has _ out of food. he was abducted by the rsf forces. it has now— out of food. he was abducted by the rsf forces. it has now been - out of food. he was abducted by the rsf forces. it has now been six - out of food. he was abducted by thej rsf forces. it has now been six days and we _ rsf forces. it has now been six days and we haven't— rsf forces. it has now been six days and we haven't heard _ rsf forces. it has now been six days and we haven't heard anything - rsf forces. it has now been six days and we haven't heard anything from | and we haven't heard anything from him. _ and we haven't heard anything from him. we _ and we haven't heard anything from him. we haven't_ and we haven't heard anything from him, we haven't had _ and we haven't heard anything from him, we haven't had any— and we haven't heard anything from him, we haven't had any updates i and we haven't heard anything from i him, we haven't had any updates and we don't _ him, we haven't had any updates and we don't know— him, we haven't had any updates and we don't know about _ him, we haven't had any updates and we don't know about the _ him, we haven't had any updates and we don't know about the situation - him, we haven't had any updates and we don't know about the situation ori we don't know about the situation or how he _ we don't know about the situation or how he is— we don't know about the situation or how he is mentally— we don't know about the situation or how he is mentally or— we don't know about the situation or how he is mentally or physically. - we don't know about the situation or how he is mentally or physically. he| how he is mentally or physically. he is diabetic— how he is mentally or physically. he is diabetic and _ how he is mentally or physically. he is diabetic and takes _ how he is mentally or physically. he is diabetic and takes daily _ i5 diabetic and takes daily medicine _ i5 diabetic and takes daily medicine. at _ i5 diabetic and takes daily medicine. at the - i5 diabetic and takes daily medicine. at the time - i5 diabetic and takes daily medicine. at the time ofi i5 diabetic and takes daily i medicine. at the time of his i5 diabetic and takes daily - medicine. at the time of his arrest he didn't— medicine. at the time of his arrest he didn't have _ medicine. at the time of his arrest he didn't have his— medicine. at the time of his arrest he didn't have his medication- medicine. at the time of his arrest he didn't have his medication on. he didn't have his medication on him. _ he didn't have his medication on him. it's— he didn't have his medication on him. it's a — he didn't have his medication on him. it's a huge _ he didn't have his medication on him. it's a huge pickle, - he didn't have his medication on him. it's a huge pickle, really. i he didn't have his medication on. him. it's a huge pickle, really. we 'u5t him. it'5 a huge pickle, really. we just don't— him. it'5 a huge pickle, really. we just don't know— him. it's a huge pickle, really. we just don't know the _ him. it's a huge pickle, really. we just don't know the situation - him. it's a huge pickle, really. we just don't know the situation and i just don't know the situation and it's extremely— just don't know the situation and it's extremely worrying. - just don't know the situation and it's extremely worrying. each - just don't know the situation and | it's extremely worrying. each day that it'5 extremely worrying. each day that goes— it'5 extremely worrying. each day that goes by— it's extremely worrying. each day that goes by it _ it's extremely worrying. each day that goes by it gets _ it's extremely worrying. each day that goes by it gets worse - it's extremely worrying. each day that goes by it gets worse and i that goes by it gets worse and worse — that goes by it gets worse and worse he _ that goes by it gets worse and worse he is _ that goes by it gets worse and worse. he is a _ that goes by it gets worse and worse. he is a british- that goes by it gets worse and worse. he is a british citizen. that goes by it gets worse and . worse. he is a british citizen and that goes by it gets worse and - worse. he is a british citizen and a dutch— worse. he is a british citizen and a dutch national— worse. he is a british citizen and a dutch national as _ worse. he is a british citizen and a dutch national as well. _ worse. he is a british citizen and a dutch national as well. we - worse. he is a british citizen and a dutch national as well. we are - dutch national as well. we are originally— dutch national as well. we are originally dutch _ dutch national as well. we are originally dutch but _ dutch national as well. we are originally dutch but we - dutch national as well. we are originally dutch but we reside i dutch national as well. we are - originally dutch but we reside here in the _ originally dutch but we reside here in the uk. — originally dutch but we reside here in the uk. ~ . .,, , ~ originally dutch but we reside here in the uk. ~ . ., , ~ ., in the uk. what has it been like for ou in the uk. what has it been like for you watching _ in the uk. what has it been like for you watching this _ in the uk. what has it been like for you watching this play _ in the uk. what has it been like for you watching this play out? - in the uk. what has it been like for you watching this play out? it's - you watching this play out? it's terrible. it's _

you watching this play out? it's terrible. it's one thing for something _ terrible. it's one thing for something like _ terrible. it's one thing for something like this - terrible. it's one thing for something like this to - terrible. it's one thing for- something like this to happen to someone — something like this to happen to someone in _ something like this to happen to someone in your— something like this to happen to someone in your family - something like this to happen to someone in your family or- something like this to happen to someone in your family or a - something like this to happen to i someone in your family or a friend, but not _ someone in your family or a friend, but not to— someone in your family or a friend, but not to know— someone in your family or a friend, but not to know their— someone in your family or a friend, but not to know their current - but not to know their current situation _ but not to know their current situation or— but not to know their current situation or to _ but not to know their current situation or to get _ but not to know their current situation or to get an - but not to know their currentl situation or to get an update. but not to know their current i situation or to get an update. i don't _ situation or to get an update. i don't even _ situation or to get an update. i don't even know— situation or to get an update. i don't even know if— situation or to get an update. i don't even know if my - situation or to get an update. i don't even know if my father. situation or to get an update. i don't even know if my father is alive — don't even know if my father is alive i— don't even know if my father is alive idon't— don't even know if my father is alive. i don't know— don't even know if my father is alive. i don't know how- don't even know if my father is alive. i don't know how to- don't even know if my father is| alive. i don't know how to feel. don't even know if my father is i alive. i don't know how to feel. i can't _ alive. i don't know how to feel. i can't sleep. _ alive. i don't know how to feel. i can't sleep. i_ alive. i don't know how to feel. i can't sleep, i can't _ alive. i don't know how to feel. i can't sleep, i can't eat. - alive. i don't know how to feel. i can't sleep, i can't eat. it'5 - can't sleep, i can't eat. it'5 terrible — can't sleep, i can't eat. it'5 terrible and _ can't sleep, i can't eat. it'5 terrible and i— can't sleep, i can't eat. it'5 terrible and i don't - can't sleep, i can't eat. it'5 terrible and i don't know. can't sleep, i can't eat. it's i terrible and i don't know what can't sleep, i can't eat. it'5 - terrible and i don't know what else to tell _ terrible and i don't know what else to tell you. — terrible and i don't know what else to tell you. sir— terrible and i don't know what else to tell you-— to tell you. sir nicholas, this is awful. yasin, _ to tell you. sir nicholas, this is awful. yasin, his _ to tell you. sir nicholas, this is awful. yasin, his family, - to tell you. sir nicholas, this is awful. yasin, his family, he - to tell you. sir nicholas, this is - awful. yasin, his family, he doesn't know if his father is alive. can you perhaps tell us about the rsf who yasin says kidnapped his father. yeah, it is a heartbreaking story. it's one of hundreds, thousands of such heartbreaking stories. the sheer horror of this is very difficult to fathom but i have listened to several of your callers and it transmits across the

airwaves. khartoum used to be a place of safety. it used to be a place of safety. it used to be a place where people from elsewhere in sudan suffering conflict, whether it was in darfur, or elsewhere in the country, they would come to khartoum as a place of safety. so this is unprecedented really that this war has erupted in the heart of the capital city, renowned for its hospitality and its gentleness. the rsf, i mentioned darfur, yes, the rsf, i mentioned darfur, yes, the rsf, the rapid support forces, have their origins, as everyone has said, in a militia group of arab tribes, basically, in darfur, which in the early 2000s were involved in fighting against rebels in darfur

and they were used, instrumental iced by 0mar al—bashir to do some of that fighting. and later in 2013, when president 0mar al—bashir became nervous about his own position and the loyalty of his own sudanese armed forces, he formalised the position of the rapid support forces, if you like, as a sort of counterbalancing effort and since then they have both been in existence and the rapid support forces have expanded their presence across the whole of sudan. they have been shadowing, if you like, the sudanese armed forces across sudan. wherever the sudanese armed forces had a base or presence, the rapid support forces established a base as well. in a nutshell, that's who they are. they are described as a militia, paramilitary, but really since 2013 you could say they have had some very official status as

well. and they are the two competing strains in the sudanese power structure. i5 strains in the sudanese power structure-— strains in the sudanese power structure. , ~ ., , , ., structure. is kidnapping part of their embo? _ structure. is kidnapping part of their embo? kidnapping... - structure. is kidnapping part of their embo? kidnapping... not necessarily- — their embo? kidnapping... not necessarily. -- _ their embo? kidnapping... not necessarily. -- part— their embo? kidnapping... not necessarily. -- part of- their embo? kidnapping... not necessarily. -- part of their . their embo? kidnapping... not. necessarily. -- part of their mo. necessarily. —— part of their m0. back— necessarily. —— part of their m0. back in— necessarily. —— part of their m0. back in the — necessarily. —— part of their m0. back in the bad _ necessarily. —— part of their m0. back in the bad days _ necessarily. —— part of their m0. back in the bad days indoor- necessarily. —— part of their m0. back in the bad days indoor for. necessarily. —— part of their m0.| back in the bad days indoor for it back in the bad days indoorfor it probably happened and is still happening. what i suspect is happening. what i suspect is happening in khartoum is a breakdown in discipline and law and order among the troops, potentially among both sides although the sudanese armed forces are supposed to be a bit more disciplined and susceptible to command and control. but the rsf, who have come in in large numbers to khartoum are largely operating in a city they are probably not from and not familiar with. and as the days go one they are taking licence to assault people, break into houses,

looting has been reported. i couldn't say it would be exclusively the rsf doing that at all. it is a lawless situation when you have had ten days of urban warfare.— ten days of urban warfare. these renerals, ten days of urban warfare. these generals, general— ten days of urban warfare. these generals, general al-burhan - ten days of urban warfare. these generals, generalal—burhan fighting generals, general al—burhan fighting against generals, generalal—burhanfighting against his deputy, general mohamed hamdan dagalo, who has his own army, the rsf militia force, did you come across either of these men in your time? i across either of these men in your time? �* . ., across either of these men in your time? �* _, ., , across either of these men in your time? �* ., , , , time? i didn't come actually because i was there time? i didn't come actually because i was there ten _ time? i didn't come actually because i was there ten years _ time? i didn't come actually because i was there ten years ago _ time? i didn't come actually because i was there ten years ago between i i was there ten years ago between 2010 and 2012. at that stage, president 0mar al—bashir, who was still president, and had just been indicted by the international criminal court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, and i think general al—burhan at that time was a brigadier general, possibly still

helping out in darfur where he also conducted sudanese army operations against the darfur rebels in reportedly quite a brutal way and was a close partner back in those days with the then junior, he was not in charge of the rsf back then, general mohamed hamdan dagalo, often known as hemedti, a nickname or family name in sudan. i don't know them. there are lots of interesting reports about their style and background. hemedti comes from a very poor background. reports that he might not be illiterate. he is certainly numerate and has strong business interests. he is established, establishing a monopoly largely over the gold industry in sudan, it is a great source of

wealth. again, that has something that has happened since i was there. since about 2013 there has been a gold rush in sudan that made it actually africa's third largest producer of gold more or less overnight as they discovered large gold reserves in darfur. sir nicholas. _ gold reserves in darfur. sir nicholas, thank you for coming on this morning. sir nicholas kay, former ambassador. we can go to hull now and speak to ahmed. and we also can go to leeds and speak to ameena. what is happening with your family? they are still trying to get away from _ they are still trying to get away from the — they are still trying to get away from the situation. _ they are still trying to get away from the situation. they- they are still trying to get away from the situation. they live i they are still trying to get away from the situation. they live in| from the situation. they live in khartoum. _ from the situation. they live in khartoum, close _ from the situation. they live in khartoum, close to _ from the situation. they live in khartoum, close to the - from the situation. they live in khartoum, close to the rapid i from the situation. they live in- khartoum, close to the rapid support forces— khartoum, close to the rapid support forces base —

khartoum, close to the rapid support forces base so— khartoum, close to the rapid support forces base. so almost _ khartoum, close to the rapid support forces base. so almost that - khartoum, close to the rapid support forces base. so almost that area - khartoum, close to the rapid support forces base. so almost that area of. forces base. so almost that area of the city _ forces base. so almost that area of the city has — forces base. so almost that area of the city has been _ forces base. so almost that area of the city has been taken _ forces base. so almost that area of the city has been taken over- forces base. so almost that area of the city has been taken over by- forces base. so almost that area of the city has been taken over by the| the city has been taken over by the rapid _ the city has been taken over by the rapid support— the city has been taken over by the rapid support forces _ the city has been taken over by the rapid support forces with - the city has been taken over by the rapid support forces with people i rapid support forces with people trying _ rapid support forces with people trying to— rapid support forces with people trying to get _ rapid support forces with people trying to get away— rapid support forces with people trying to get away to _ rapid support forces with people trying to get away to a _ rapid support forces with people trying to get away to a safe - rapid support forces with people trying to get away to a safe area, j trying to get away to a safe area, maybe _ trying to get away to a safe area, maybe to — trying to get away to a safe area, maybe to the _ trying to get away to a safe area, maybe to the north _ trying to get away to a safe area, maybe to the north of— trying to get away to a safe area, maybe to the north of the - trying to get away to a safe area, i maybe to the north of the country. they— maybe to the north of the country. they are _ maybe to the north of the country. they are still— maybe to the north of the country. they are still on _ maybe to the north of the country. they are still on their— maybe to the north of the country. they are still on their way- maybe to the north of the country. they are still on their way but - they are still on their way but that's— they are still on their way but that's the _ they are still on their way but that's the last _ they are still on their way but that's the last thing _ they are still on their way but that's the last thing that - they are still on their way but that's the last thing that i- that's the last thing that i heard from _ that's the last thing that i heard from them. _ that's the last thing that i heard from them. hopefully— that's the last thing that i heard from them. hopefully within - that's the last thing that i heard| from them. hopefully within the that's the last thing that i heard - from them. hopefully within the next few coming _ from them. hopefully within the next few coming hours _ from them. hopefully within the next few coming hours they _ from them. hopefully within the next few coming hours they might - from them. hopefully within the next few coming hours they might reach i few coming hours they might reach some _ few coming hours they might reach some safe — few coming hours they might reach some safe place _ few coming hours they might reach some safe place and _ few coming hours they might reach some safe place and from - few coming hours they might reach some safe place and from there . few coming hours they might reach i some safe place and from there they can think— some safe place and from there they can think where _ some safe place and from there they can think where to _ some safe place and from there they can think where to go. _ some safe place and from there they can think where to go. i _ 5ome safe place and from there they can think where to go. i think- some safe place and from there they can think where to go. i thinkjust i can think where to go. i thinkjust getting _ can think where to go. i thinkjust getting away— can think where to go. i thinkjust getting away from _ can think where to go. i thinkjust getting away from the _ can think where to go. i thinkjust getting away from the small - can think where to go. i thinkjust getting away from the small areal can think where to go. i thinkjust i getting away from the small area in khartoum _ getting away from the small area in khartoum which— getting away from the small area in khartoum which is _ getting away from the small area in khartoum which is very _ getting away from the small area in khartoum which is very subject - getting away from the small area in khartoum which is very subject to i getting away from the small area in khartoum which is very subject to a j khartoum which is very subject to a lot of— khartoum which is very subject to a lot of firing — khartoum which is very subject to a lot of firing and _ khartoum which is very subject to a lot of firing and bombardment - khartoum which is very subject to a j lot of firing and bombardment from both sides. — lot of firing and bombardment from both sides. it's— lot of firing and bombardment from both sides, it's not— lot of firing and bombardment from both sides, it's not safe _ lot of firing and bombardment from both sides, it's not safe at - lot of firing and bombardment from both sides, it's not safe at all- lot of firing and bombardment from both sides, it's not safe at all and i both sides, it's not safe at all and ithink— both sides, it's not safe at all and i think most— both sides, it's not safe at all and i think most of— both sides, it's not safe at all and i think most of the _ both sides, it's not safe at all and i think most of the people - both sides, it's not safe at all and i think most of the people have i i think most of the people have already— i think most of the people have already left _ i think most of the people have already left the _ i think most of the people have| already left the neighbourhood. i think most of the people have - already left the neighbourhood. iirilt�*halt already left the neighbourhood. what is it normally — already left the neighbourhood. what is it normally like? _ already left the neighbourhood. is it normally like? we got a sense of that from sir nicholas. what is

khartoum —like at its best? of that from sir nicholas. what is khartoum -like at its best? cutting is a very quiet _ khartoum -like at its best? cutting is a very quiet city. _ khartoum -like at its best? cutting is a very quiet city. it's _ khartoum -like at its best? cutting is a very quiet city. it's a _ khartoum -like at its best? cutting is a very quiet city. it's a very - is a very quiet city. it's a very chill— is a very quiet city. it's a very chill city— is a very quiet city. it's a very chill city with— is a very quiet city. it's a very chill city with people - is a very quiet city. it's a very chill city with people walking | chill city with people walking around. _ chill city with people walking around. i_ chill city with people walking around. idon't— chill city with people walking around. i don't think - chill city with people walking around. i don't think they. chill city with people walking i around. i don't think they have chill city with people walking - around. idon't think they have ever around. i don't think they have ever been _ around. i don't think they have ever been in _ around. idon't think they have ever been in such— around. i don't think they have ever been in such an _ around. i don't think they have ever been in such an experience - around. idon't think they have ever been in such an experience of- around. i don't think they have ever been in such an experience of a - been in such an experience of a direct— been in such an experience of a direct war— been in such an experience of a direct war and _ been in such an experience of a direct war and bombardment i been in such an experience of a direct war and bombardment to been in such an experience of a - direct war and bombardment to their houses _ direct war and bombardment to their houses with— direct war and bombardment to their houses with military _ direct war and bombardment to their houses with military men _ direct war and bombardment to their houses with military men all - direct war and bombardment to their houses with military men all around i houses with military men all around the country. — houses with military men all around the country. this _ houses with military men all around the country. this is _ houses with military men all around the country. this is like _ houses with military men all around the country. this is like a _ the country. this is like a nightmare _ the country. this is like a nightmare. nobody- the country. this is like a nightmare. nobody has i the country. this is like a . nightmare. nobody has ever the country. this is like a _ nightmare. nobody has ever expected this to _ nightmare. nobody has ever expected this to take _ nightmare. nobody has ever expected this to take place _ nightmare. nobody has ever expected this to take place in _ nightmare. nobody has ever expected this to take place in sudan, _ nightmare. nobody has ever expected this to take place in sudan, never- this to take place in sudan, never in a million — this to take place in sudan, never in a million years. _ this to take place in sudan, never in a million years. at _ this to take place in sudan, never in a million years. at the - this to take place in sudan, never in a million years. at the same i in a million years. at the same time. _ in a million years. at the same time. the _ in a million years. at the same time, the presence _ in a million years. at the same time, the presence of- in a million years. at the same time, the presence of the - in a million years. at the samei time, the presence of the rapid support— time, the presence of the rapid support forces _ time, the presence of the rapid support forces have _ time, the presence of the rapid support forces have made - time, the presence of the rapid i support forces have made people anxious— support forces have made people anxious all— support forces have made people anxious all the _ support forces have made people anxious all the time. _ support forces have made people anxious all the time. it's - support forces have made people anxious all the time. it's a - support forces have made people anxious all the time. it's a new. anxious all the time. it's a new kind _ anxious all the time. it'5 a new kind of— anxious all the time. it's a new kind of militia _ anxious all the time. it's a new kind of militia that _ anxious all the time. it'5 a new kind of militia that has- anxious all the time. it'5 a new kind of militia that has no- anxious all the time. it's a new. kind of militia that has no regime or discipline _

kind of militia that has no regime or discipline. they— kind of militia that has no regime or discipline. they have - kind of militia that has no regime i or discipline. they have committed kind of militia that has no regime - or discipline. they have committed a lot of— or discipline. they have committed a lot of violations, _ or discipline. they have committed a lot of violations, sitting _ or discipline. they have committed a lot of violations, sitting at _ or discipline. they have committed a lot of violations, sitting at the - lot of violations, sitting at the military— lot of violations, sitting at the military base _ lot of violations, sitting at the military base in _ lot of violations, sitting at the military base in khartoum - lot of violations, sitting at the i military base in khartoum during lot of violations, sitting at the - military base in khartoum during the revolution. — military base in khartoum during the revolution, and _ military base in khartoum during the revolution, and they— military base in khartoum during the revolution, and they contributed - military base in khartoum during the revolution, and they contributed toi revolution, and they contributed to lots of _ revolution, and they contributed to lots of violations. _ revolution, and they contributed to lots of violations. they _ revolution, and they contributed to lots of violations. they have - revolution, and they contributed to lots of violations. they have their. lots of violations. they have their own secret — lots of violations. they have their own secret prison. _ lots of violations. they have their own secret prison. they- lots of violations. they have their own secret prison. they kidnap . own secret prison. they kidnap people — own secret prison. they kidnap people they— own secret prison. they kidnap people. they have _ own secret prison. they kidnap people. they have committed i own secret prison. they kidnapl people. they have committed a own secret prison. they kidnap - people. they have committed a lot of crimes _ people. they have committed a lot of crimes so _ people. they have committed a lot of crimes so people _ people. they have committed a lot of crimes so people usually— people. they have committed a lot of crimes so people usually don't - people. they have committed a lot of crimes so people usually don't trust i crimes so people usually don't trust them. _ crimes so people usually don't trust them. they— crimes so people usually don't trust them. they don't— crimes so people usually don't trust them, they don't trust _ crimes so people usually don't trust them, they don't trust their - them, they don't trust their presence _ them, they don't trust their presence. they— them, they don't trust their presence. they are - them, they don't trust their presence. they are part - them, they don't trust their presence. they are part of. them, they don't trust their. presence. they are part of the them, they don't trust their - presence. they are part of the army, they had _ presence. they are part of the army, they had been— presence. they are part of the army, they had been established _ presence. they are part of the army, they had been established by- presence. they are part of the army, they had been established by the - they had been established by the former— they had been established by the former president _ they had been established by the former president omar— they had been established by the| former president 0mar al—bashir, they had been established by the - former president 0mar al—bashir, but at the _ former president 0mar al—bashir, but at the same _ former president 0mar al—bashir, but at the same time _ former president 0mar al—bashir, but at the same time the _ former president 0mar al—bashir, but at the same time the army— former president 0mar al—bashir, buti at the same time the army themselves are not— at the same time the army themselves are not actually— at the same time the army themselves are not actually our— at the same time the army themselves are not actually our old _ at the same time the army themselves are not actually our old national- are not actually our old national sudanese — are not actually our old national sudanese army. _ are not actually our old national sudanese army. it _ are not actually our old national sudanese army. it is— are not actually our old national sudanese army. it is built - are not actually our old national sudanese army. it is built on i are not actually our old national sudanese army. it is built on an ideology— sudanese army. it is built on an ideology of— sudanese army. it is built on an ideology of the _ sudanese army. it is built on an ideology of the muslim - sudanese army. it is built on an- ideology of the muslim brotherhood, and the _ ideology of the muslim brotherhood, and the security— ideology of the muslim brotherhood, and the security committee - and the security committee established _ and the security committee established by— and the security committee established by the... - and the security committee established by the... so. and the security committee established by the. . .- and the security committee established by the... so is there an islamist element _ established by the... so is there an islamist element to _ established by the... so is there an

islamist element to this? _ established by the... so is there an islamist element to this? they - established by the... so is there an islamist element to this? they are | islamist element to this? they are all the islamist _ islamist element to this? they are all the islamist elements - islamist element to this? they are all the islamist elements that - islamist element to this? they are | all the islamist elements that have taken _ all the islamist elements that have taken over— all the islamist elements that have taken over the _ all the islamist elements that have taken over the military— all the islamist elements that have taken over the military top - taken over the military top leadership. _ taken over the military top leadership, including - taken over the military top . leadership, including general al-burhan _ leadership, including general al—burhan. so _ leadership, including general al—burhan. so both— leadership, including general al—burhan. so both of- leadership, including general al—burhan. so both of them i leadership, including general. al—burhan. so both of them are leadership, including general- al—burhan. so both of them are not to be _ al—burhan. so both of them are not to be trusted. — al—burhan. so both of them are not to be trusted, especially— al—burhan. so both of them are not to be trusted, especially after- al—burhan. so both of them are not to be trusted, especially after the i to be trusted, especially after the revolution. — to be trusted, especially after the revolution, and _ to be trusted, especially after the revolution, and they _ to be trusted, especially after the revolution, and they have - to be trusted, especially after the i revolution, and they have committed a lot of— revolution, and they have committed a lot of violations. _ revolution, and they have committed a lot of violations. but _ revolution, and they have committed a lot of violations. but to _ revolution, and they have committed a lot of violations. but to reach - a lot of violations. but to reach the extent _ a lot of violations. but to reach the extent of— a lot of violations. but to reach the extent of an _ a lot of violations. but to reach the extent of an open - a lot of violations. but to reach the extent of an open war, - a lot of violations. but to reach| the extent of an open war, with a lot of violations. but to reach - the extent of an open war, with no regard _ the extent of an open war, with no regard to _ the extent of an open war, with no regard to civilians _ the extent of an open war, with no regard to civilians or— the extent of an open war, with no regard to civilians or no _ the extent of an open war, with no regard to civilians or no regard - the extent of an open war, with no regard to civilians or no regard to i regard to civilians or no regard to people's— regard to civilians or no regard to people's lives _ regard to civilians or no regard to people's lives is _ regard to civilians or no regard to people's lives is unprecedented i regard to civilians or no regard to| people's lives is unprecedented in the history— people's lives is unprecedented in the history of— people's lives is unprecedented in the history of sudan. _ people's lives is unprecedented in the history of sudan. it _ people's lives is unprecedented in the history of sudan. it never- the history of sudan. it never happens. _ the history of sudan. it never happens. we _ the history of sudan. it never happens. we have _ the history of sudan. it never happens. we have had - the history of sudan. it never happens. we have had a - the history of sudan. it never. happens. we have had a military the history of sudan. it never- happens. we have had a military code that would _ happens. we have had a military code that would be — happens. we have had a military code that would be toppled _ happens. we have had a military code that would be toppled by _ happens. we have had a military code that would be toppled by civilians, - that would be toppled by civilians, by revolution. _ that would be toppled by civilians, by revolution. by— that would be toppled by civilians, by revolution, by strikes, - that would be toppled by civilians, by revolution, by strikes, by- that would be toppled by civilians, by revolution, by strikes, by a - by revolution, by strikes, by a general— by revolution, by strikes, by a general strike, _ by revolution, by strikes, by a general strike, all— by revolution, by strikes, by a general strike, all by- by revolution, by strikes, by a general strike, all by peaceful means. — general strike, all by peaceful means. but _ general strike, all by peaceful means. but to _ general strike, all by peaceful means. but to have _ general strike, all by peaceful means. but to have this - means. but to have this confrontation _ means. but to have this confrontation inside - means. but to have this confrontation inside the j means. but to have this - confrontation inside the city of sudan — confrontation inside the city of sudan is —

confrontation inside the city of sudan is unbelievable. - confrontation inside the city of - sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. _ sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. it— sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. it does— sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. it does a — sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. it does a lot _ sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. it does a lot of _ sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. it does a lot of harm, - sudan is unbelievable. unbelievable, really. it does a lot of harm, i- really. it does a lot of harm, i think. — really. it does a lot of harm, i think. for— really. it does a lot of harm, i think, for the _ really. it does a lot of harm, i think, for the young - really. it does a lot of harm, i think, for the young people i really. it does a lot of harm, i. think, for the young people who really. it does a lot of harm, i- think, for the young people who will now experience _ think, for the young people who will now experience war— think, for the young people who will now experience war and _ think, for the young people who will now experience war and we - think, for the young people who will now experience war and we will- think, for the young people who will now experience war and we will see | now experience war and we will see people _ now experience war and we will see people suffering. _ now experience war and we will see people suffering, and _ now experience war and we will see people suffering, and children - now experience war and we will see people suffering, and children in i people suffering, and children in disbelief— people suffering, and children in disbelief at — people suffering, and children in disbelief at what _ people suffering, and children in disbelief at what is _ people suffering, and children in disbelief at what is going - people suffering, and children in disbelief at what is going on, - disbelief at what is going on, people — disbelief at what is going on, people getting _ disbelief at what is going on, people getting killed - disbelief at what is going on, people getting killed on- disbelief at what is going on, people getting killed on the. people getting killed on the streets. _ people getting killed on the streets, bodies _ people getting killed on the streets, bodies scattered . people getting killed on the - streets, bodies scattered around. this is— streets, bodies scattered around. this is a _ streets, bodies scattered around. this is a new— streets, bodies scattered around. this is a new phase _ streets, bodies scattered around. this is a new phase for— streets, bodies scattered around. this is a new phase for us, - streets, bodies scattered around. this is a new phase for us, the i this is a new phase for us, the sudanese. _ this is a new phase for us, the sudanese, for— this is a new phase for us, the sudanese, for the _ this is a new phase for us, the sudanese, for the first - this is a new phase for us, the sudanese, for the first time i this is a new phase for us, the sudanese, for the first time in| this is a new phase for us, the - sudanese, for the first time in our history. _ sudanese, for the first time in our history. and — sudanese, for the first time in our history. and i_ sudanese, for the first time in our history. and i hope _ sudanese, for the first time in our history. and i hope it _ sudanese, for the first time in our history. and i hope it comes- sudanese, for the first time in our history. and i hope it comes to . sudanese, for the first time in our history. and i hope it comes to an| history. and i hope it comes to an end soon. — history. and i hope it comes to an end soon. the _ history. and i hope it comes to an end soon, the sooner— history. and i hope it comes to an end soon, the sooner the - history. and i hope it comes to an end soon, the sooner the better. i end soon, the sooner the better. listening — end soon, the sooner the better. listening to — end soon, the sooner the better. listening to this, _ end soon, the sooner the better. listening to this, i _ end soon, the sooner the better. listening to this, i am _ end soon, the sooner the better. listening to this, i am listening i end soon, the sooner the better. | listening to this, i am listening to the breakdown in discipline among the breakdown in discipline among the rsf who have kidnapped your father, yasin. like the rsf who have kidnapped your father, yasin.— father, yasin. like i said, i don't know why _ father, yasin. like i said, i don't know why it _ father, yasin. like i said, i don't know why it has _ father, yasin. like i said, i don't know why it has happened. - father, yasin. like i said, i don't know why it has happened. it's i father, yasin. like i said, i don't. know why it has happened. it's not something — know why it has happened. it's not something that should be happening

across— something that should be happening across the world by an organisation which _ across the world by an organisation which is _ across the world by an organisation which is come going somewhat linked to government. it isjust awful, really. — to government. it isjust awful, really. it— to government. it isjust awful, really. it really is awful. we can to to really. it really is awful. we can go to hull _ really. it really is awful. we can go to hull and _ really. it really is awful. we can go to hull and speak— really. it really is awful. we can go to hull and speak to - really. it really is awful. we can go to hull and speak to ahmed. really. it really is awful. we can - go to hull and speak to ahmed. your family is in darfur. tell me about it for and yourfamily. family is in darfur. tell me about it for and your family. the situation _ it for and your family. the situation is _ it for and your family. the situation is getting - it for and your family. the situation is getting worse. more than _ situation is getting worse. more than 2003. _ 5ituation is getting worse. more than 2003. i_ situation is getting worse. more than 2003. i am _ situation is getting worse. more than 2003. i am a _ situation is getting worse. more than 2003. i am a refugee - situation is getting worse. more than 2003. i am a refugee and. situation is getting worse. more| than 2003. i am a refugee and a genocide — than 2003. i am a refugee and a genocide survivor. _ than 2003. i am a refugee and a genocide survivor. in— than 2003. i am a refugee and a genocide survivor. in 2003 - than 2003. i am a refugee and a genocide survivor. in 2003 in. genocide survivor. in 2003 in darfur. — genocide survivor. in 2003 in darfur, committed _ genocide survivor. in 2003 in darfur, committed by- genocide survivor. in 2003 in darfur, committed by the - genocide survivor. in 2003 in- darfur, committed by the former president— darfur, committed by the former president omar— darfur, committed by the former president 0mar al—bashir, - darfur, committed by the former president 0mar al—bashir, and i darfur, committed by the former. president 0mar al—bashir, and the militia _ president 0mar al—bashir, and the militia that — president 0mar al—bashir, and the militia that has _ president 0mar al—bashir, and the militia that has now— president 0mar al—bashir, and the militia that has now changed - president 0mar al—bashir, and the militia that has now changed its i militia that has now changed its name _ militia that has now changed its name to— militia that has now changed its name to the _ militia that has now changed its name to the rsf. _ militia that has now changed its name to the rsf. but _ militia that has now changed its name to the rsf. but the - militia that has now changed its . name to the rsf. but the situation is getting _ name to the rsf. but the situation is getting worse _ name to the rsf. but the situation is getting worse and _ name to the rsf. but the situation is getting worse and nobody- name to the rsf. but the situation is getting worse and nobody is - is getting worse and nobody is protecting _ is getting worse and nobody is protecting people _ is getting worse and nobody is protecting people down- is getting worse and nobody is protecting people down there. is getting worse and nobody is - protecting people down there. before the un _ protecting people down there. before the un peacekeepers— protecting people down there. before the un peacekeepers were _ protecting people down there. before the un peacekeepers were on - protecting people down there. before the un peacekeepers were on the - the un peacekeepers were on the ground. _ the un peacekeepers were on the ground. but— the un peacekeepers were on the ground. but in— the un peacekeepers were on the

ground, but in 2020 _ the un peacekeepers were on the ground, but in 2020 when - the un peacekeepers were on the ground, but in 2020 when the - the un peacekeepers were on the i ground, but in 2020 when the new government— ground, but in 2020 when the new government came _ ground, but in 2020 when the new government came in. _ ground, but in 2020 when the new government came in. i— ground, but in 2020 when the new government came in. i have - ground, but in 2020 when the new government came in. i have manyl government came in. i have many relatives— government came in. i have many relatives in— government came in. i have many relatives in the _ government came in. i have many relatives in the displacement - government came in. i have many. relatives in the displacement camps. it relatives in the displacement camps. it scares— relatives in the displacement camps. it scares me — relatives in the displacement camps. it scares me i— relatives in the displacement camps. it scares me. i have _ relatives in the displacement camps. it scares me. i have contacted - relatives in the displacement camps. it scares me. i have contacted my. it scares me. i have contacted my sister— it scares me. i have contacted my sister two — it scares me. i have contacted my sister two days _ it scares me. i have contacted my sister two days ago _ it scares me. i have contacted my sister two days ago but _ sister two days ago but unfortunately - sister two days ago but unfortunately there - sister two days ago but unfortunately there is i sister two days ago but i unfortunately there is no sister two days ago but - unfortunately there is no signal sister two days ago but _ unfortunately there is no signal and i'm unfortunately there is no signal and i'm very— unfortunately there is no signal and i'm very concerned. _ unfortunately there is no signal and i'm very concerned. the _ unfortunately there is no signal and i'm very concerned. the whole - i'm very concerned. the whole family. — i'm very concerned. the whole family. and _ i'm very concerned. the whole family, and all— i'm very concerned. the whole family, and all the _ i'm very concerned. the whole family, and all the people - i'm very concerned. the whole family, and all the people who i'm very concerned. the whole - family, and all the people who are in that— family, and all the people who are in that refugee _ family, and all the people who are in that refugee camp. _ family, and all the people who are in that refugee camp. i— family, and all the people who are in that refugee camp. i had - family, and all the people who are | in that refugee camp. i had contact two days— in that refugee camp. i had contact two days ago— in that refugee camp. i had contact two days ago with _ in that refugee camp. i had contact two days ago with a _ in that refugee camp. i had contact two days ago with a friend - in that refugee camp. i had contact two days ago with a friend who - in that refugee camp. i had contact two days ago with a friend who is i in that refugee camp. i had contact| two days ago with a friend who is in northern— two days ago with a friend who is in northern darfur, _ two days ago with a friend who is in northern darfur, in _ two days ago with a friend who is in northern darfur, in a _ two days ago with a friend who is in northern darfur, in a city. _ two days ago with a friend who is in northern darfur, in a city. he - two days ago with a friend who is in northern darfur, in a city. he told i northern darfur, in a city. he told me many— northern darfur, in a city. he told me many people _ northern darfur, in a city. he told me many people have _ northern darfur, in a city. he told me many people have been- northern darfur, in a city. he toldi me many people have been killed, northern darfur, in a city. he told - me many people have been killed, you can see _ me many people have been killed, you can see bodies — me many people have been killed, you can see bodies in _ me many people have been killed, you can see bodies in the _ me many people have been killed, you can see bodies in the street. _ can see bodies in the street. yeah... _ can see bodies in the street. yeah... sorry. _ can see bodies in the street. yeah... sorry.— can see bodies in the street. yeah... sorry. don't worry. jan pospisil. — yeah... sorry. don't worry. jan pospisil, professor, _ yeah... sorry. don't worry. jan .

pospisil, professor, heartbreaking calls from people, which illustrates the awfulness and desperation and wickedness of this situation. it is terrible here. _ wickedness of this situation. it is terrible here. it _ wickedness of this situation. it is terrible here. it is _ wickedness of this situation. it 3 terrible here. it is absolutely incredible. it shows a bit of the history of of what sudanese dictatorships have done over decades in various parts of the country. it is terrible that in the end the war that has been on the periphery, like in for especially, and in around the nile in the south, it has come back. it's been a long time that such an open warfare has happened in a city as big as khartoum. 0f open warfare has happened in a city as big as khartoum. of course, the human suffering that comes out of this is incredible. the; human suffering that comes out of this is incredible.— this is incredible. as for the evacuation, _ this is incredible. as for the evacuation, sean _ this is incredible. as for the evacuation, sean bell, - this is incredible. as for the evacuation, sean bell, i'ml this is incredible. as for the - evacuation, sean bell, i'm sure you have been listening, as have the rest of us, with such sadness and

concern as to what people are going through. and i can't thank the people who have got in touch with us on the phone enough for their honesty, telling us what is going on with their families in this dreadful situation. what about the evacuation? is it an easy place to get people out of, sean bell? ila. get people out of, sean bell? no, it's not. because _ get people out of, sean bell? no, it's not. because it _ get people out of, sean bell? no, it's not. because it is so dynamic on the _ it's not. because it is so dynamic on the ground it is very difficult. when _ on the ground it is very difficult. when we — on the ground it is very difficult. when we start putting large military aircraft _ when we start putting large military aircraft with hundreds of people on, it can _ aircraft with hundreds of people on, it can make — aircraft with hundreds of people on, it can make it very vulnerable and you don't— it can make it very vulnerable and you don't want to turn a travesty into a — you don't want to turn a travesty into a tragedy. the callers to your show. _ into a tragedy. the callers to your show. it— into a tragedy. the callers to your show. it has— into a tragedy. the callers to your show, it has been incredibly moving and my— show, it has been incredibly moving and my thoughts go out to everyone affected _ and my thoughts go out to everyone affected by this. having spent a lifetime — affected by this. having spent a lifetime on military operations, two years— lifetime on military operations, two years of— lifetime on military operations, two years of my— lifetime on military operations, two years of my life in afghanistan, wars _ years of my life in afghanistan, wars are — years of my life in afghanistan, wars are brutal and horrendous. whether— wars are brutal and horrendous. whether it — wars are brutal and horrendous. whether it is sudan, ukraine, there are a _

whether it is sudan, ukraine, there are a lot _ whether it is sudan, ukraine, there are a lot of— whether it is sudan, ukraine, there are a lot of these conflicts going on at _ are a lot of these conflicts going on at the — are a lot of these conflicts going on at the moment. i think part of it makes _ on at the moment. i think part of it makes me — on at the moment. i think part of it makes me very proud of our military, that we _ makes me very proud of our military, that we are _ makes me very proud of our military, that we are not fighting internally, that we are not fighting internally, that actually we have lots of young men and _ that actually we have lots of young men and women who are now flying towards _ men and women who are now flying towards a _ men and women who are now flying towards a dangerous war zone with an unstable _ towards a dangerous war zone with an unstable situation on the ground, putting _ unstable situation on the ground, putting their lives at risk to try to evacuate our own nation's people, and prioritise. it makes me very proud _ and prioritise. it makes me very proud of— and prioritise. it makes me very proud of our own military, but my heart _ proud of our own military, but my heart goes — proud of our own military, but my heart goes out to all those affected. it is brutal and we have probably— affected. it is brutal and we have probably only seen the tip of the iceberg — probably only seen the tip of the iceberg. inevitably it is great to hear _ iceberg. inevitably it is great to hear those stories but i suspect there _ hear those stories but i suspect there are — hear those stories but i suspect there are hundreds, maybe thousands of those _ there are hundreds, maybe thousands of those sorts of horrendous stories happening _ of those sorts of horrendous stories happening and we willjust never hear about them so our thoughts go out to— hear about them so our thoughts go out to those folks.— hear about them so our thoughts go out to those folks. thanks very much indeed for your— out to those folks. thanks very much indeed for your thoughts, _ out to those folks. thanks very much indeed for your thoughts, sean - out to those folks. thanks very much indeed for your thoughts, sean bell, | indeed for your thoughts, sean bell, retired vice marshal. we have some

text to read you in a second, some trenchant messages from you this morning put up if you are watching on bbc two then the snooker is about to get under way at the world championships in sheffield. we will continue to talk on bbc 5 live, bbc sounds, on bbc news and the iplayer. we will be discussing dentist at ten o'clock. some texts, there should be an international peacekeeping force in khartoum at once. it is obvious the sudanese can't keep a truce of any sort and civilians are paying for their stupidity and greed. why can't the international community see that? another text, listening to the phone in it is heartbreaking. i'm amazed how the sudanese people from the few you have spoken to who work in our nhs saving lives, now it is time for us to get on helping to save theirfamilies who is time for us to get on helping to save their families who live in sudan. thank you very much once again for all the amazing contributions this morning to the phonein

contributions this morning to the phone in on the sudan. we will return to that, i am absolutely sure. 08085 909693 is the number to get in touch with us. you can text as well on 85058. cross— party cross—party group of mps are holding an inquiry into nhs dentistry in england, this is what we are going to talk about now, dental health crisis. a bbc investigation last year found crisis. a bbc investigation last yearfound nine crisis. a bbc investigation last year found nine out of ten crisis. a bbc investigation last yearfound nine out of ten nhs dental practices across the uk were not accepting new adult patients and eight out of ten were not accepting children, and i know all of this kind of is a first world problem, after what we've just been speaking about, and people to whom we have just been talking, and it does pale into insignificance but it is a big

issue for people, dental health is so important for general health as well, and charges, nhs charges for dental treatment in england go up by 8.5% today, the british dental association says it is worried residents are putting off getting care because of that increase in costs. we want to hear from you about your experiences, look at the cost of a checkup now, £25, a filling goes up by £5 to £70.7, and things like dentures will set you back over £300. a recent survey says the vast majority of people in our country, in our nations, believe that it should be free at the point of delivery as it once was, what are your thoughts on this? dentistry filling the gap, get in touch.

and here is the news. a ceasefire is in place in sudan. some british nationals in the country say they feel abandoned by the government says their safety is a priority. at least 400 people have died in the fighting. senior health officials in england and a government that health minister will face questions from mps about problems accessing an nhs dentist. the health and social care committee started in inquiry after a bbc investigation found 90% of dental practices are no longer taking on new adult nhs patients. a hosepipe ban is being extended into most of devon affecting almost 400,000 households. restrictions have been in place for cornwall and parts of north devon since last summer because reservoir levels are still too low. scientists are concerned that rapidly heating oceans will further add to global warning. they think an el nino

weather event in the pacific could drive global temperatures to new highs next year. it is quite overwhelming that last hour, but let's talk about something that matters to so many people in this country, it is pretty basic, getting a dentist, what on earth is going on? shawn charlwood, chair of the british dental association, we will be speaking to you in a second. let me introduce lindsay in whitby. hi, lindsay. let me introduce lindsay in whitby. hi. lindsay-— let me introduce lindsay in whitby. hi. lindsay-_ we - let me introduce lindsay in whitby. hi, lindsay._ we are i hi, lindsay. hello, nicky. we are auoin to hi, lindsay. hello, nicky. we are going to talk _ hi, lindsay. hello, nicky. we are going to talk about _ hi, lindsay. hello, nicky. we are going to talk about this _ hi, lindsay. hello, nicky. we are going to talk about this dental. going to talk about this dental health situation, george is well in chigwell. hi, what did you do, george, to try to get around the fact that you couldn't get a dentist? i fact that you couldn't get a dentist? . , ., .. dentist? i pulled my own teeth out. oh, m dentist? i pulled my own teeth out. oh. my goodness — dentist? i pulled my own teeth out. oh, my goodness me. _ dentist? i pulled my own teeth out.

oh, my goodness me. talk- dentist? i pulled my own teeth out. oh, my goodness me. talk us - oh, my goodness me. talk us through it. ~ , , ., . ., oh, my goodness me. talk us through it. why did you have to do that? well, because _ it. why did you have to do that? well, because i— it. why did you have to do that? well, because i had _ it. why did you have to do that? well, because i had tried - it. why did you have to do that? well, because i had tried for - it. why did you have to do that? well, because i had tried for so | well, because i had tried for so long to get a dentist, and then the shut down turned up and there was no way i was getting a dentist because, you know what i mean, nobody would take me on, and in the end, getting fed up making phone calls one after the other trying to find somebody who was interested in helping you out, you don't get anywhere. so... a can ijust say? out, you don't get anywhere. so... a can i just say?— can i 'ust say? obviously quite a lot can ijust say? obviously quite a lot of people — can ijust say? obviously quite a lot of people are _ can ijust say? obviously quite a lot of people are watching - can ijust say? obviously quite a lot of people are watching this i can ijust say? obviously quite a l lot of people are watching this on tv, we are on the radio and we are on the tv as well, on the new channel, and bbc two and also iplayer. and there is a picture up, i have to describe it to people who are listening, our radio audience. it is a picture of your teeth, at the moment, in your hand, that we have managed to get hold of and put up. and i've got to be honest with

you, it's pretty grim, george. yes. you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well, you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well. ever— you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well, ever since _ you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well, ever since i _ you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well, ever since i was _ you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well, ever since i was a _ you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well, ever since i was a child - you, it's pretty grim, george. yes, well, ever since i was a child i - well, ever since i was a child i have had trouble with my teeth. i don't know whether it is bad hygiene or what, don't know whether it is bad hygiene orwhat, but don't know whether it is bad hygiene or what, but that aside, you expect to be able to go and see a dentist. absolutely, what i'm saying is that clearly, looking at those teeth, you needed to see a dentist, they are a long way from kind of the love island smile. you need to see a dentist, you've got problems, and you would think in this day and age, in this country, the fifth biggest economy, as we are always being told, in the world, i don't know if we are still in that situation, but whatever, you should be able to see a dentist and not have to pay through the roof. it a dentist and not have to pay through the roof.— a dentist and not have to pay through the roof. it has now got similar to _ through the roof. it has now got similar to the _ through the roof. it has now got similar to the doctor, _ through the roof. it has now got similar to the doctor, trying - through the roof. it has now got similar to the doctor, trying to i through the roof. it has now got i similar to the doctor, trying to get an appointment with a doctor is nigh on impossible nowadays. you can't bookin on impossible nowadays. you can't book in advance, you have to ring up first thing in the morning, and hang

on until you get through, and then when you get through, you're lucky to get an appointment because they only take them for that day, they won't take them in advance. there's just not enough money left in the national health anymore. and what i'm forced to do at the moment is, i am having to sell things now, because i'm having to go down the private part. because i'm having to go down the private part-— because i'm having to go down the private part-- i— because i'm having to go down the private part.- i don't - because i'm having to go down the private part.- i don't really| private part. really? i don't really want to. because _ private part. really? i don't really want to. because that _ private part. really? i don't really want to. because that is - private part. really? i don't really want to. because that is firing - private part. really? i don't really want to. because that is firing the government's guns. and it is the only way, i can't see any other way of getting my teeth sorted, other than... .. of getting my teeth sorted, other than... ., , .. of getting my teeth sorted, other than... ., i. , of getting my teeth sorted, other than... ., ,. . .. than... how did you pull them out? well, than... how did you pull them out? well. once--- _ than... how did you pull them out? well, once... when _ than... how did you pull them out? well, once... when they _ than... how did you pull them out? well, once... when they get - well, once... when they get infected, they get infected, and then they become loose, and over time, it takes to remove a tooth without anaesthetic, you know, because it is quite painful. i've

just developed a technique, you could say, usually once it gets infected, i willjust work on it with my tongue and gradually detach all the, i don't know what they call it, if you have got a dentist listening, he will tell you, all the little strands that connect to your teeth to your gum. 50. little strands that connect to your teeth to your gum.— little strands that connect to your teeth to your gum. so, you ease it out with your _ teeth to your gum. so, you ease it out with your tongue? _ teeth to your gum. so, you ease it out with your tongue? yes, - teeth to your gum. so, you ease it out with your tongue? yes, just i out with your tongue? yes, 'ust keep -auttin out with your tongue? yes, 'ust keep putting tons — out with your tongue? yes, 'ust keep putting tons of h out with your tongue? yes, 'ust keep putting tons of pressure _ out with your tongue? yes, just keep putting tons of pressure sideways . putting tons of pressure sideways on the tooth and itjust snaps them one by one, and then eventually you can pull it out either with a pair of pliers or by hand pop is and the point of pulling it out, is that the painful moment? not really, it is more like relief from pain. because once it's gone, it is gone. but while i am trying to loosen it, it is pain. but i've got so used to it now that i just,

is pain. but i've got so used to it now that ijust, i keep thinking to myself, i got seven teeth left and i am probably going to end up having to extract seven of them if i don't go private. it's such a chronic state for the national health to be in, i don't care who runs the government. i in, i don't care who runs the government-— in, i don't care who runs the rovernment. . ., . , ., government. i have got a dentist to seak government. i have got a dentist to s - eak to government. i have got a dentist to speak to you. _ government. i have got a dentist to speak to you, shawn _ government. i have got a dentist to speak to you, shawn charlwood, . government. i have got a dentist to i speak to you, shawn charlwood, chair of the british dental association, meet george. property good morning, george. you have my every sympathy, i agree with everything you've said, it is an appalling situation. in a modern economy... _ it is an appalling situation. in a modern economy... we - it is an appalling situation. in a modern economy... we are - it is an appalling situation. in a - modern economy... we are supposed to be the fifth modern economy. .. we are supposed to be the fifth or— modern economy... we are supposed to be the fifth or seventh _ modern economy... we are supposed to be the fifth or seventh richest _ be the fifth or seventh richest nation in the world, and you can't get a dentist. you know, you can go out, i was watching a programme on the telly yesterday, you can go out and you can get your body sculpted for about ten grand but you go out on private to get your teeth done

and i got a price, on private to get your teeth done and i gota price, £27,000. on private to get your teeth done and i got a price, £27,000. what? to and i got a price, £27,000. what? to aet fixed and i got a price, £27,000. what? to get fixed teeth. _ and i got a price, £27,000. what? to get fixed teeth, you _ and i got a price, £27,000. what? to get fixed teeth, you know, _ and i got a price, £27,000. what? to get fixed teeth, you know, to - and i got a price, £27,000. what? to get fixed teeth, you know, to get implants. four on top and bottom. 24—hour service, implants. four on top and bottom. 24—hourservice, in implants. four on top and bottom. 24—hour service, in and out. who the hell has got that amount of money? and ijust can't get national health. so, as i say, i am having to try and start selling things now because it plays havoc on your psyche and everything. flit because it plays havoc on your psyche and everything. of course, absolutely. _ psyche and everything. of course, absolutely, your— psyche and everything. of course, absolutely, your mental— psyche and everything. of course, absolutely, your mental health, i psyche and everything. of course, i absolutely, your mental health, your physical health, because your teeth, the state of your mouth and teeth are so important for the rest of the body as well. i’m are so important for the rest of the body as well-— are so important for the rest of the body as well. are so important for the rest of the bod as well. �* . , , body as well. i'm embarrassed when i to out, body as well. i'm embarrassed when i go out. you — body as well. i'm embarrassed when i go out. you know. — body as well. i'm embarrassed when i go out, you know, it— body as well. i'm embarrassed when i go out, you know, it has _ body as well. i'm embarrassed when i go out, you know, it has changed - body as well. i'm embarrassed when i go out, you know, it has changed the | go out, you know, it has changed the whole way i mean my face. i'm scared of smiling in front of people. so, you change the way you move your mouth and everything. people have said to me, my face is changing because of the way i'm having to

start speaking. because of the way i'm having to start speaking-— start speaking. you're adapting, et. iwill start speaking. you're adapting, yet- i will get — start speaking. you're adapting, yet. i will get more _ start speaking. you're adapting, yet. i will get more from - start speaking. you're adapting, yet. i will get more from you . start speaking. you're adapting, yet. i will get more from you in | start speaking. you're adapting, | yet. i will get more from you in a second or two, shawn charlwood. but wow, george, and lindsay in whitby, what is happening, lindsay? hi. what is happening, lindsay? hi, well, what is happening, lindsay? hi, well. paul— what is happening, lindsay? hi, well, paul george. we are currently on a 40—mile trip to an emergency dentist— on a 40—mile trip to an emergency dentist appointment, which took me the best— dentist appointment, which took me the best part of yesterday to sort out. so. — the best part of yesterday to sort out. so, that's where we are. tell me about — out. so, that's where we are. tell me about the _ out. so, that's where we are. tell me about the best part of yesterday, what was going on, what cause did you make, what responses did you get? you make, what responses did you let? ~ .. you make, what responses did you let? ~ ., , you make, what responses did you et? . ., , ., you make, what responses did you let? ~ ., , ., ., get? well, we moved up to yorkshire from derbyshire _ get? well, we moved up to yorkshire from derbyshire two _ get? well, we moved up to yorkshire from derbyshire two weeks _ get? well, we moved up to yorkshire from derbyshire two weeks before . get? well, we moved up to yorkshire| from derbyshire two weeks before the first lockdown, so we were unable to register— first lockdown, so we were unable to register with a new dentist. i have a problem — register with a new dentist. i have a problem with impacted wisdom teeth which every now and then they

flare-ups _ which every now and then they flare—ups and they get an infection. what _ flare—ups and they get an infection. what is _ flare—ups and they get an infection. what is that like? it is flare-ups and they get an infection. what is that like?— what is that like? it is like someone _ what is that like? it is like someone is _ what is that like? it is like someone is drilling - what is that like? it is like someone is drilling up - what is that like? it is like someone is drilling up the | what is that like? it is like - someone is drilling up the side of your face — someone is drilling up the side of yourface. down someone is drilling up the side of your face. down your throat and into your face. down your throat and into your head. _ your face. down your throat and into your head, it'5 your face. down your throat and into your head, it's extremely painful. so, your head, it'5 extremely painful. so. i_ your head, it's extremely painful. so. i rang — your head, it's extremely painful. so, i rang five dentists yesterday from _ so, i rang five dentists yesterday from a _ so, i rang five dentists yesterday from a radius of york to scarborough, nobody was taking on new patients, nobody had an emergency appointment i rang my gp because — emergency appointment i rang my gp because i— emergency appointment i rang my gp because i know i need antibiotics, so i because i know i need antibiotics, so i rang — because i know i need antibiotics, so i rang my— because i know i need antibiotics, so i rang my gp, no, we don't do dental. _ so i rang my gp, no, we don't do dental. so. — so i rang my gp, no, we don't do dental. so. in— so i rang my gp, no, we don't do dental. so, in the end i was an hour and a— dental. so, in the end i was an hour and a half— dental. so, in the end i was an hour and a half on— dental. so, in the end i was an hour and a half on 111, who eventually not and a half on 111, who eventually got me — and a half on 111, who eventually got me this one appointment, to say, we are _ got me this one appointment, to say, we are driving 40 miles over the north— we are driving 40 miles over the north york— we are driving 40 miles over the north york moors to get there, it is a one-off. — north york moors to get there, it is a one-off. so— north york moors to get there, it is a one—off, so they will not treat me going _ a one—off, so they will not treat me going forward, but they will see me today. _ going forward, but they will see me today. to _ going forward, but they will see me today, to sort this wisdom tooth.

so, today, to sort this wisdom tooth. so. i_ today, to sort this wisdom tooth. so. i don't — today, to sort this wisdom tooth. so, i don't know what i will do when it so, idon't know what i will do when it happens— so, i don't know what i will do when it happens again. so, i don't know what i will do when it happens again-— it happens again. can't you have them out? _ it happens again. can't you have them out? galley _ it happens again. can't you have them out? galley that _ it happens again. can't you have them out? galley that is - it happens again. can't you have them out? galley that is the - it happens again. can't you have i them out? galley that is the other thin , them out? galley that is the other thing. with — them out? galley that is the other thing. with my _ them out? galley that is the other thing, with my previous _ them out? galley that is the other thing, with my previous dentist. them out? galley that is the other i thing, with my previous dentist that i thing, with my previous dentist that i was _ thing, with my previous dentist that i was registered with, they told me that you _ i was registered with, they told me that you have to have three episodes on the _ that you have to have three episodes on the same — that you have to have three episodes on the same side of your mouth, 50, i on the same side of your mouth, 50, i have _ on the same side of your mouth, 50, i have left— on the same side of your mouth, 50, i have left and right problems but they have — i have left and right problems but they have to be on the same side within— they have to be on the same side within a _ they have to be on the same side within a period of three months before — within a period of three months before they will consider taking them _ before they will consider taking them out. so, you know, if you go longer— them out. so, you know, if you go longer between episodes or you have one episode each side, you're not eligible _ one episode each side, you're not eligible to— one episode each side, you're not eligible to even have them taken out. eligible to even have them taken out, ., , ., eligible to even have them taken out. . , ., .. eligible to even have them taken out. . , ., ., . , , out. so, what is going to happen...? i'm sure out. so, what is going to happen...? i'm sure many _ out. so, what is going to happen...? i'm sure many people _ out. so, what is going to happen...? i'm sure many people listening, - out. so, what is going to happen...? i'm sure many people listening, like| i'm sure many people listening, like me, my tongue is doing an exploratoryjourney me, my tongue is doing an exploratory journey around me, my tongue is doing an exploratoryjourney around my mouth as everyone is talking. what is going to happen today?- as everyone is talking. what is going to happen today? galley i am hoinu that going to happen today? galley i am hoping that they — going to happen today? galley i am hoping that they will _ going to happen today? galley i am hoping that they will give _ going to happen today? galley i am hoping that they will give me - going to happen today? galley i am hoping that they will give me some |

hoping that they will give me some antibiotics— hoping that they will give me some antibiotics which will kill, you know... — antibiotics which will kill, you knowm a— antibiotics which will kill, you know... a why didn't the doctor give you antibiotics, is that a rule, that— you antibiotics, is that a rule, that they— you antibiotics, is that a rule, that they can't give you for antibiotics because they don't do mouths? — antibiotics because they don't do mouths? yes, she just says, we don't touch— mouths? yes, she just says, we don't touch dental. — mouths? yes, she just says, we don't touch dental, you have to see a dentist. — touch dental, you have to see a dentist. �* , .. �* touch dental, you have to see a dentist. �* i. �* �* touch dental, you have to see a dentist. �* , ., �* �* ., dentist. but you're saying i've got this ain, dentist. but you're saying i've got this pain. i _ dentist. but you're saying i've got this pain, i need _ dentist. but you're saying i've got this pain, i need some... - this pain, i need some... antibiotics, it is infected? maybe if you got, i don't know, maybe i am speaking out of turn, i don't know the specific rules, but maybe if you got a different gp, you might have been luckier? i got a different gp, you might have been luckier?— got a different gp, you might have been luckier? i don't know. our gps really good — been luckier? i don't know. our gps really good in _ been luckier? i don't know. our gps really good in the _ been luckier? i don't know. our gps really good in the village _ been luckier? i don't know. our gps really good in the village where - been luckier? i don't know. our gps really good in the village where we | really good in the village where we live, really good in the village where we live. our— really good in the village where we live, ourfriends really good in the village where we live, our friends in the village they— live, our friends in the village they go— live, our friends in the village they go privately so in desperation we even _ they go privately so in desperation we even rang the private dentist yesterday and he said he wasn't taking _ yesterday and he said he wasn't taking any new patient. sol yesterday and he said he wasn't taking any new patient. so i was 'u5t taking any new patient. so i was just almost in tears with it. the rivate just almost in tears with it. the private dentist _ just almost in tears with it. tie: private dentist isn't taking just almost in tears with it. ii9 private dentist isn't taking on new patients when it is entirely in their interest to do so because it is a business.—

their interest to do so because it is a business. no, they're not. so i don't know — is a business. no, they're not. so i don't know what _ is a business. no, they're not. so i don't know what the _ is a business. no, they're not. so i don't know what the answer - is a business. no, they're not. so i don't know what the answer is. - is a business. no, they're not. so i| don't know what the answer is. that tells its own — don't know what the answer is. that tells its own story, _ don't know what the answer is. trisgt tells its own story, doesn't it? my goodness me, shawn charlwood, dental chair of the british dental association, what is happening? itttfliat association, what is happening? what is auoin on, association, what is happening? what is going on. yeah- _ association, what is happening? what is going on, yeah. good morning, nicky. _ is going on, yeah. good morning, nicky. i_ is going on, yeah. good morning, nicky. i am — is going on, yeah. good morning, nicky. i am chair of the general dental— nicky. i am chair of the general dental practice committee so i represent dentists on the high street. — represent dentists on the high street. if— represent dentists on the high street, if you like, and this situation _ street, if you like, and this situation is not a new one, i think you've _ situation is not a new one, i think you've had — situation is not a new one, i think you've had these articles and features— you've had these articles and features on your programme before, and it— features on your programme before, and it is— features on your programme before, and it isjust — features on your programme before, and it isjust so frustrating for us as dentists. _ and it isjust so frustrating for us as dentists, and happy to answer specific— as dentists, and happy to answer specific questions on nhs and private. — specific questions on nhs and private, but the nhs system is in crisis. _ private, but the nhs system is in crisis. we — private, but the nhs system is in crisis, we estimate there are 11 million — crisis, we estimate there are 11 million patients within the country who are _ million patients within the country who are trying to access nhs care and can't. — who are trying to access nhs care and can't, and that is as a result, and can't, and that is as a result,

and you _ and can't, and that is as a result, and you will— and can't, and that is as a result, and you will have heard this before, and you will have heard this before, a contract _ and you will have heard this before, a contract in — and you will have heard this before, a contract in 2006 that is completely unfit for purpose, practices are struggling to run their— practices are struggling to run their business because dental practices are run as small businesses, on the contract, it can't _ businesses, on the contract, it can't be — businesses, on the contract, it can't be done. and many people are having _ can't be done. and many people are having to _ can't be done. and many people are having to leave, and that's why patients — having to leave, and that's why patients are struggling all over the country— patients are struggling all over the country to— patients are struggling all over the country to access nhs dentistry, in particular. — country to access nhs dentistry, in particular, but it is interesting to hear— particular, but it is interesting to hear from — particular, but it is interesting to hear from lindsay that some patients are struggling to access dentistry of any— are struggling to access dentistry of any kind, private or nhs, and i don't _ of any kind, private or nhs, and i don't know— of any kind, private or nhs, and i don't know if you want to talk about patient _ don't know if you want to talk about patient charges, they went up by 8~5%_ patient charges, they went up by 8.5% yesterday. so... patient charges, they went up by 8.5% yesterday. so. . ._ patient charges, they went up by 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have not 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have got some — 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have got some stats. _ 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have got some stats. the _ 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have got some stats. the cost - 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have got some stats. the cost of - 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have got some stats. the cost of a - 8.5% yesterday. so... yes, i have| got some stats. the cost of a band one treatment like a checkup, signed

£23.80 to £25.80. a filling goes up from £65 to £73, i wonder how much that would cost you privately, no idea? band three dentures, £282 to £306. so, considerable increases. don't some private dentists do nhs stuff as well? do they mix and match, some dentists?- stuff as well? do they mix and match, some dentists? sorry, i 'ust missed your— match, some dentists? sorry, i 'ust missed your taxi match, some dentists? sorry, i 'ust missed your last line, - match, some dentists? sorry, i 'ust missed your last line, nicky. . match, some dentists? sorry, ijust missed your last line, nicky. do - missed your last line, nicky. do some missed your last line, nicky. lirr some private dentists do nhs stuff as well? tbs, some private dentists do nhs stuff as well? : .. .. some private dentists do nhs stuff aswell?: ., ., , . ,. some private dentists do nhs stuff aswell? : ., ., , . ,. . as well? a lot of practices are what we call mixed _ as well? a lot of practices are what we call mixed practices _ as well? a lot of practices are what we call mixed practices so - as well? a lot of practices are what we call mixed practices so they - as well? a lot of practices are what we call mixed practices so they will have an _ we call mixed practices so they will have an nhs contract and they will have an nhs contract and they will have a _ have an nhs contract and they will have a quota of nhs dentistry that they can _ have a quota of nhs dentistry that they can deliver, and once they deliver— they can deliver, and once they deliver that, there is no more nhs funding _ deliver that, there is no more nhs funding for— deliver that, there is no more nhs funding fortheir deliver that, there is no more nhs funding for their practice, and then. — funding for their practice, and then. if— funding for their practice, and then, if they've got capacity, they will see _ then, if they've got capacity, they will see private patients as well. so, will see private patients as well. so. that — will see private patients as well. so. that is— will see private patients as well. so, that is true. some practices are

purely— so, that is true. some practices are purely private, some practices are purely private, 5ome practices are purely— purely private, some practices are purely nhs. the majority of practices i would suggest are as i say of— practices i would suggest are as i say of a _ practices i would suggest are as i say of a mixed type, where they are providing _ say of a mixed type, where they are providing both types of care. hybrids. _ providing both types of care. hybrids. lindsay, allthe providing both types of care. hybrids. lindsay, all the best, providing both types of care. hybrids. lindsay, allthe best, i hybrids. lindsay, all the best, i hope it works out.— hybrids. lindsay, all the best, i. hope it works out._ and hope it works out. thank you! and georue, hope it works out. thank you! and george. you're — hope it works out. thank you! and george, you're some _ hope it works out. thank you! and george, you're some kind - hope it works out. thank you! and george, you're some kind of - hope it works out. thank you! and george, you're some kind of an . hope it works out. thank you! and i george, you're some kind of an icon, you know? thank you for coming on. i wish i was because maybe i would get dental treatment than! tbs, wish i was because maybe i would get dental treatment than!— dental treatment than! a smile is a smile, a dental treatment than! a smile is a smile. a smile _ dental treatment than! a smile is a smile, a smile always _ dental treatment than! a smile is a smile, a smile always looks - dental treatment than! a smile is a smile, a smile always looks great, | smile, a smile always looks great, no matter what, so keep smiling, that's what i'm saying.— no matter what, so keep smiling, that's what i'm saying. well, you've not two, that's what i'm saying. well, you've got two. haven't — that's what i'm saying. well, you've got two, haven't you? _ that's what i'm saying. well, you've got two, haven't you? you - that's what i'm saying. well, you've got two, haven't you? you can't i that's what i'm saying. well, you've got two, haven't you? you can't let| got two, haven't you? you can't let it get you down. i'lljust keep trying and as i say the only option i can see now to see light at the end of the tunnel is to go private. what are you going to sell? i’sre end of the tunnel is to go private. what are you going to sell? i've got some old machines, _ what are you going to sell? i've got some old machines, because - what are you going to sell? i've got some old machines, because i- what are you going to sell? i've got some old machines, because i am i some old machines, because i am a multiskilled tradesperson, i'm

retired, so i am going to start selling my machines to try and raise the money. it is all i can do. i am the money. it is all! can do. i am 'ust the money. it is all! can do. i am just nosy. — the money. it is all! can do. i am just nosy. i— the money. it is all! can do. i am just nosy. i am — the money. it is all! can do. i am just nosy, i am going _ the money. it is all! can do. i am just nosy, i am going to - the money. it is all! can do. i am just nosy, i am going to speak i the money. it is all i can do. i am just nosy, i am going to speak to emma in redruth and julius in cheltenham and mark in suffolk, thank you all very much, needless to say, big response. machines, i'm intrigued, what machine my global? you know, drills, tile cutters, stuff like that. that people are going to need. from what i can gather, i'm going...— going to need. from what i can gather, i'm going... when you said a drill, i gather, i'm going... when you said a drill. l was — gather, i'm going... when you said a drill, i was worried _ gather, i'm going... when you said a drill, i was worried you _ gather, i'm going... when you said a drill, i was worried you were - gather, i'm going... when you said a drill, i was worried you were going i drill, i was worried you were going to use that on your teeth as well. no, i haven't gone that far yet, i don't do my own feelings, otherwise i might use a drill. i had a quote for private, for dentures, and they quoted me near enough 2,000 pounds,

£1700. g; :: ~ quoted me near enough 2,000 pounds, £1700. z: ii ~ ., quoted me near enough 2,000 pounds, £1700. q: i: ~ ., ,, quoted me near enough 2,000 pounds, £1700. z: ii ~ ., ,, that quoted me near enough 2,000 pounds, £1700-_ that is _ quoted me near enough 2,000 pounds, £1700._ that is to - quoted me near enough 2,000 pounds, £1700._ that is to have i £1700. £306 for nhs. that is to have m '70s £1700. £306 for nhs. that is to have my "70s removed _ £1700. £306 for nhs. that is to have my '70s removed and _ £1700. £306 for nhs. that is to have my '70s removed and two _ £1700. £306 for nhs. that is to have my '70s removed and two sets - £1700. £306 for nhs. that is to have my '70s removed and two sets of. my �*70s removed and two sets of dentures top and bottom fitted. £1700, £1800, it is going to cost me. i £1700, £1800, it is going to cost me. . , £1700, £1800, it is going to cost me. , , , . . �* , me. i remember my grandad's dentures. _ me. i remember my grandad's dentures. he _ me. i remember my grandad's dentures, he used _ me. i remember my grandad's dentures, he used to - me. i remember my grandad's dentures, he used to play - me. i remember my grandad's dentures, he used to play thatj me. i remember my grandad's - dentures, he used to play that with them in his teeth and make funny faces. thank you very much indeed, i wish you well, to kerrod yourself. emma in redruth, julius in cheltenham, mark in redbridge, hi, or view. cheltenham, mark in redbridge, hi, orview. emma, you cheltenham, mark in redbridge, hi, or view. emma, you have been trying to get an appointment for quite some time, what is happening? yes, so, we are a military family, and about four years ago, my partner was divisions down here in cornwall. 50. divisions down here in cornwall. so, i had to divisions down here in cornwall. so, i had to leave _ divisions down here in cornwall. 59, i had to leave behind a divisions down here in cornwall. so, i had to leave behind a job and everything out east to move down with him so we could be together. at the time, we didn't think anything of it, we had to sign up to a

waiting list to be appointed a dentist, which was a new one on me, as we head not done that before, had to go on a waiting list for an intel entire county. when i originally found up it was me and my son, my partner ironically he gets treatment through the royal navy, so we signed up through the royal navy, so we signed up and we were told it would probably be about a year, year—and—a—half waiting list, possibly two. but obviously covid has struck since then and this was january 2019, that i originally signed up for. in that time, i have since had two more children, which, being pregnant is a huge issue with teeth, and my teeth in particular are quite bad, i suffer a lot from acid erosion, so i kept getting my parents saying, have you got an appointment with the dentist yet? i am saying no, we are on a waiting list. and they did actually, the

waiting list team called me upjust after i had my second child and they added her, they wanted to know if i were still wanting to be on the waiting list, and i said, yes, please. they added my second child, but then when i called them about my third child to be added, they had no record of my name even being on the list. and after an awful of panicking, it transpired that they had recorded my name, originally they had recorded my name incorrectly, so there was even a point in time where i was thinking oh god i am going to have to go back on this massively long waiting list at the bottom country but thankfully they were able to track me down via my nhs numberand they were able to track me down via my nhs number and my son's number and they realised the mistake and they corrected that so thankfully that was sorted but here we are, 2023, three kids later, and still waiting. 2023, three kids later, and still waitinu. , ,, �*

2023, three kids later, and still waitin _ , ,, �* , waiting. oh, my goodness. i'm 'ust a... i waiting. oh, my goodness. i'm 'ust treet— waiting. oh, my goodness. i'm 'ust lfeetveryfi waiting. oh, my goodness. i'm 'ust a... i feelvery fortunate, - waiting. oh, my goodness. i'mjust a... i feelvery fortunate, balham l a... i feel very fortunate, balham dental a... ifeel very fortunate, balham dental practice, i'm in, you know, i just wonder if i were trying to get in, whether it would be more difficult. anyway it is something that i'm sure a lot of people are relating to because i am seeing the calls and the texts. i might have thought emma because you are a military family and your partner is in the royal navy that there might have been a kind of family scheme going on, maybe there once was but they have cut back on that, i don't know? . ,., , , they have cut back on that, i don't know? . , , . they have cut back on that, i don't know? . ,, . know? yes, so, this is what i posed the question _ know? yes, so, this is what i posed the question actually _ know? yes, so, this is what i posed the question actually before - know? yes, so, this is what i posed the question actually before we - the question actually before we moved but my partner was not 100% sure because he wasn't on the basis yet, but from my understanding, because we don't technically live on base, we live in an outsourced military patch, we don't qualify, but then i'm not 100% certain that even that is true. back out east where we used to live, there is an awful lot of raf bases and their

bases tend to have housing actually in situ, within the fence, i think they refer to it, and the people that i talk to from their were saying, yes, we get the nhs and doctors and everything on base. but down here in cornwall, we don't live on base so we don't get any sort of treatment in the same way that he does actually being in the royal navy. so i don't know if there used to be a scheme in place at all but it is nothing really that i assume doesn't exist and julius in cheltenham, goodness, and the kids, emma, what if the kids get a problem?— emma, what if the kids get a roblem? . , . , , ., problem? yes, yeah, this is... for, they haven't. _ problem? yes, yeah, this is... for, they haven't. my — problem? yes, yeah, this is... for, they haven't, my son _ problem? yes, yeah, this is... for, they haven't, my son is _ problem? yes, yeah, this is... for, they haven't, my son is now- problem? yes, yeah, this is... for, they haven't, my son is now at - problem? yes, yeah, this is... for, they haven't, my son is now at the | they haven't, my son is now at the stage where he is losing his baby teeth and he has got four or five aduu teeth and he has got four or five adult teeth coming through. and he has never once been seen, he was too young to be seen when we still lived

out east, and he has never once been seen. but the worry is, yes, what if something does happen? i myself had a martial arts injury which knocked out a feeling in my top teeth, and i was able to go and see, i got in with one of the private dentists here, and he was able to sort of have a look and fix it and sort it out for me and very kindly he sort of gave me a check up there and then and put together a quote of all the work that needed doing to my teeth, and this was two years ago, just after the first lockdown eased up, i think, it came to just over £500 worth of work that needed doing, just because i know how bad my teeth are, and at that point i had had my second pregnancy and i knowjust how dire everything gets them. it is a concern, really, if something were to come through, if i was to end up in pain or if one of the children

were to suddenly require treatment, i believe the protocol, you call through to their emergency number and you are then given an appointment with an emergency dentist, if there is one available. it is that or sell your machines, like george. and julius as well, what is your concern, julius, what is going on in your mouth, might i say?! is going on in your mouth, might i sa ?! ~ :. is going on in your mouth, might i sa 2! : ., :, is going on in your mouth, might i sa ?! ~ . . . is going on in your mouth, might i sa ?! . . , is going on in your mouth, might i sa ?! ., ., ., , ., say?! well, i have had a couple of bits and problems _ say?! well, i have had a couple of bits and problems with _ say?! well, i have had a couple of bits and problems with a - say?! well, i have had a couple of bits and problems with a broken i bits and problems with a broken tooth— bits and problems with a broken tooth and — bits and problems with a broken tooth and an abscess, but the main thing _ tooth and an abscess, but the main thing was _ tooth and an abscess, but the main thing was that i had a broken tooth and i_ thing was that i had a broken tooth and i went— thing was that i had a broken tooth and i went to my own dentist because i and i went to my own dentist because i was _ and i went to my own dentist because i was going _ and i went to my own dentist because i was going on holiday, i wanted the tooth— i was going on holiday, i wanted the tooth fixed — i was going on holiday, i wanted the tooth fixed before i went on holiday but they— tooth fixed before i went on holiday but they covered give me an appointment for two months so i couldn't— appointment for two months so i couldn't wait for that so i actually went _ couldn't wait for that so i actually went privately, and it was 150 quid or something and i was able to afford — or something and i was able to afford it— or something and i was able to afford it but because i went to them. — afford it but because i went to them. a — afford it but because i went to them, a temporary fix, i came back from _

them, a temporary fix, i came back from holiday, i had the job finished by the _ from holiday, i had the job finished by the private dentist, they also did the — by the private dentist, they also did the dental hygiene thing so i did the dental hygiene thing 50 i didn't— did the dental hygiene thing so i didn't need to go to my own dentist that year— didn't need to go to my own dentist that year because i had had it done privately. _ that year because i had had it done privately. but the following year, it was _ privately. but the following year, it was lockdown and covid and nobody could go _ it was lockdown and covid and nobody could go and see a dentist because of the _ could go and see a dentist because of the aerosol sprays and the risk of the aerosol sprays and the risk of spreading covid and so on, so i didn't— of spreading covid and so on, so i didn't go. — of spreading covid and so on, so i didn't go. anyway, the upshot of it was. _ didn't go. anyway, the upshot of it was. when — didn't go. anyway, the upshot of it was, when the lockdown i5 didn't go. anyway, the upshot of it was, when the lockdown is eventually finished _ was, when the lockdown is eventually finished in _ was, when the lockdown is eventually finished in 2021, i went back to my dentist. _ finished in 2021, i went back to my dentist. i_ finished in 2021, i went back to my dentist, i still had one or two minor— dentist, i still had one or two minor problems with my teeth, and i couldn't— minor problems with my teeth, and i couldn't get — minor problems with my teeth, and i couldn't get in. they said, you are not on _ couldn't get in. they said, you are not on our— couldn't get in. they said, you are not on our list anymore, and i said what _ not on our list anymore, and i said what is _ not on our list anymore, and i said what is that— not on our list anymore, and i said what is that all about? they said because — what is that all about? they said because you haven't been here since 2017. _ because you haven't been here since 2017, because you didn't come in 2019. _ 2017, because you didn't come in 2019. you — 2017, because you didn't come in 2019, you been struck off. so i said. _ 2019, you been struck off. so i said. oh. — 2019, you been struck off. so i said, oh, 0k, and they said there is a waiting— said, oh, 0k, and they said there is a waiting list— said, oh, 0k, and they said there is a waiting list tojoin, so i said can i— a waiting list tojoin, so i said can i be— a waiting list tojoin, so i said can i be put on the waiting list, and they— can i be put on the waiting list, and they said no. the waiting list is closed. —

and they said no. the waiting list is closed. 50, i contacted nhs england. _ is closed. 50, i contacted nhs england, their dental service, they couldn't— england, their dental service, they couldn't recommend, they couldn't advise _ couldn't recommend, they couldn't advise any— couldn't recommend, they couldn't advise any available dentists in the whole _ advise any available dentists in the whole of— advise any available dentists in the whole of gloucestershire, but they referred _ whole of gloucestershire, but they referred me to the clinical commissioning group, the clinical commissioning group, the clinical commissioning group, the clinical commissioning group could find only one possible dentist in another town nine or— one possible dentist in another town nine or ten— one possible dentist in another town nine or ten miles away so, there were _ nine or ten miles away so, there were no— nine or ten miles away so, there were no dentists, no nhs dentists taking _ were no dentists, no nhs dentists taking on— were no dentists, no nhs dentists taking on new patients in cheltenham at all. _ taking on new patients in cheltenham at all. and _ taking on new patients in cheltenham at all. and i_ taking on new patients in cheltenham at all. and i haven't been able to find one — at all. and i haven't been able to find one since.— at all. and i haven't been able to find one since. well, look, shawn charlwood. _ find one since. well, look, shawn charlwood. i— find one since. well, look, shawn charlwood, i mean, _ find one since. well, look, shawn charlwood, i mean, a _ find one since. well, look, shawn charlwood, i mean, a lot - find one since. well, look, shawn charlwood, i mean, a lot of - find one since. well, look, shawn charlwood, i mean, a lot of cross| find one since. well, look, shawn i charlwood, i mean, a lot of cross of listeners, and there is a cross—party group of mps looking at this today and onwards, what would you say to them?— this today and onwards, what would you say to them? well, i appeared in front of the — you say to them? well, i appeared in front of the select _ you say to them? well, i appeared in front of the select committee - you say to them? well, i appeared in front of the select committee a - you say to them? well, i appeared in front of the select committee a few. front of the select committee a few weeks ago and the main points that i

was putting across were that there is a crisis, that there are millions of patients, and we've heard some of these really sad, distressing, appalling stories, you know, in this day and age, it's completely unacceptable that patients can't access care. and i made the point that the cause of this is formed in government and it will only be fixed by government. ittsfas government and it will only be fixed by government-— by government. was it browne or blair at the _ by government. was it browne or blair at the root _ by government. was it browne or blair at the root of _ by government. was it browne or blair at the root of this? - by government. was it browne or blair at the root of this? no, - by government. was it browne or blair at the root of this? no, i... | blair at the root of this? no, i... this was back _ blair at the root of this? no, i... this was back in _ blair at the root of this? no, i... this was back in 2006 _ blair at the root of this? no, i... this was back in 2006 and - blair at the root of this? no, i... this was back in 2006 and a - blair at the root of this? no, i... i this was back in 2006 and a dental contract that is really complicated to explain. contract that is really complicated to exlain. :. . contract that is really complicated to exlain. . , ., contract that is really complicated to exlain. . ,. , , to explain. that is a pub quiz question _ to explain. that is a pub quiz question as _ to explain. that is a pub quiz question as to _ to explain. that is a pub quiz question as to which - to explain. that is a pub quiz question as to which of- to explain. that is a pub quiz question as to which of them to explain. that is a pub quiz - question as to which of them was prime minister.— prime minister. yes, and it has deteriorated _ prime minister. yes, and it has deteriorated to _ prime minister. yes, and it has deteriorated to a _ prime minister. yes, and it has deteriorated to a point - prime minister. yes, and it has deteriorated to a point where l prime minister. yes, and it has deteriorated to a point where a j deteriorated to a point where a number of nhs dentists cannot continue to see patients on the nhs. and what a lot of dentists have done up and what a lot of dentists have done up to now is they have been seeing nhs patients and actually the fees for many have not cover the costs of

delivering the care, and their private work has been if you like subsidising to enable dentists to keep that going on for many it has reached a point where theyjust can't do it. so, the points i made were that we need a new contract and were that we need a new contract and we needed urgently and you will be aware, nicky, that government will always say, we've made reforms, but they are minor tweaks to an existing contract that is unfit for purpose, and what we must have is fundamental reform. and i think both government and opposition need to act. the days of debating and talking about this are long gone. and your listeners and contributors this morning just emphasise how urgent this is. there is a lack of urgency, a lack of emission, and it is appalling, and we must save this service before it is too late, and that isn't an exaggeration. there are millions of people who are trying to access the service, and it is not there for them. there is nothing worse than

toothache, in relative terms. this is from a dentist, if i can read this to you. i work in a dental practice. don't give my name, and don't worry, i won't. i work in a dental practice, part private and part nhs. when we open the books for new nhs patients we are flooded with people who need work during who haven't been in years. it is not financially viable to do the work on the nhs because uda pays the same amount for one filling as ten fillings. so we have to close the books again. we can't get dental nurses because they are paid more for a shift at aldi. to meet cqc requirements costs money and an nhs practice often doesn't have that. interesting points in there. the department of health and social care

statement spokesperson has said that "we are working to improve access to nhs dental care by investing more than £3 billion a year. we reformed the nhs dental contract to encourage more dentists to provide nhs treatments and allow dental therapists and hygienists to offer extra services, and increased the amount practices receive for high—need patients. there were over 500 more dentists delivering nhs care in 2022 than in 2021, but we know there is more to do and we will be announcing further measures to improve access across the country soon." mark, i know you have been there for a while. can you wait until after the news and i will speak to you then, mark in woodbridge? yeah, that's ok. excellent. _ then, mark in woodbridge? yeah, that's ok. excellent. we - then, mark in woodbridge? yeah, that's ok. excellent. we have - then, mark in woodbridge? yeah, i that's ok. excellent. we have some more texts — that's ok. excellent. we have some more texts as _ that's ok. excellent. we have some more texts as well. _ that's ok. excellent. we have some more texts as well. would - that's ok. excellent. we have some more texts as well. would you - that's ok. excellent. we have some more texts as well. would you like l more texts as well. would you like me to answer _ more texts as well. would you like me to answer those _ more texts as well. would you like me to answer those points - more texts as well. would you like me to answer those points you - me to answer those points you raised? iii me to answer those points you raised? , ., u, me to answer those points you raised? ,, a , me to answer those points you | raised?_ the raised? if you can, quickly. the

oint raised? if you can, quickly. the point about— raised? if you can, quickly. the point about patients _ raised? if you can, quickly. the point about patients arriving . raised? if you can, quickly. the i point about patients arriving with raised? if you can, quickly. the . point about patients arriving with a lot, new patients many of whom are rife with a lot of disease. that lot, new patients many of whom are rife with a lot of disease.— rife with a lot of disease. that is an interesting _ rife with a lot of disease. that is an interesting point. _ rife with a lot of disease. that is an interesting point. generally. an interesting point. generally speaking in all of this, do we not look after our teeth very well? the contract, look after our teeth very well? the contract. you _ look after our teeth very well? tue: contract, you talked about look after our teeth very well? tu2 contract, you talked about the charges for each band, for a filling, a dentist will receive with the new charges 70.70, whether you need one filling or ten fillings. if you open your books to see lots of new patients you can see how that is unviable for practices, because you are not being rewarded for the amount of time you potentially have to spend with a patient. and amount of time you potentially have to spend with a patient.— to spend with a patient. and the more peeple _ to spend with a patient. and the more people have _ to spend with a patient. and the more people have waited - to spend with a patient. and the more people have waited before to spend with a patient. and the - more people have waited before going to see a dentist, the worse their teeth are going to be.— teeth are going to be. correct, eah. it teeth are going to be. correct, yeah- it is _ teeth are going to be. correct, yeah. it is all— teeth are going to be. correct, yeah. it is all preventable. - teeth are going to be. correct, | yeah. it is all preventable. you mention about dental nurses and we have a particular problem in the nhs where as you say, many dental nurses can work outside dentistry

potentially in a supermarket or on the high street and they will be paid more than they will be paid in an nhs practice so we lose lots of expertise there. the government constantly talks about £3 billion being spent on nhs dentistry but what they don't tell you is that includes what patients are paying for nhs dentistry and the amount to the public are paying in terms of charges, because of course nhs dentistry is not free at the point of delivery for many people, is increasing. i mentioned the 8.5% increase yesterday. the proportion the government is spending on nhs dentistry is declining every year and the reforms they talk about our marginal changes. they are not big enough and fundamental enough to make nhs dentistry attractive again. thank you for that and addressing that. i want to give you a couple of texts. how funny we are doing a dental phone in this morning, it wasn't funny for georgia. i have managed to get an emergency appointment today. i with a private

practice and it takes months to get a standard appointment. they are booking intojuly now. that's a private practice. this one, dentist prices, i had to have several bottom teeth removed and had to use the little money i had to go private. i wasn't so much pain and it was more than £300. i can't afford benches at minute so eating is a right headache. more calls to come. —— i can't afford dentures at the minute. now the news with nick hatfield. the uk government says it's organising evacuation flights for british nationals to leave sudan. a 72—hour ceasefire has started in the country, where fighting between rival military groups has seen at least 400 people killed. senior health officials and a government minister will be questioned by mps over the shortage of

dentists offering treatment on the nhs in england. an inquiry was started after a bbc investigation found 90% of practices aren't taking on new adult nhs patients. 0cado is to stop operations at its hatfield centre in hertfordshire, putting 2,300 jobs at risk. the online grocer says it hopes to redeploy as many staff as possible to other sites, including a new one in luton. new laws will make it illegal to write fake reviews online in exchange for money or free goods. the government's digital markets, competition and consumer bill will also force firms to remind people when free subscription trials end. katie smith has the sport. arsenal manager mikel arteta says granit xhaka could return for their huge match with manchester city tomorrow although defender william saliba is still unavailable. arteta also insists the premier league top two clash isn't winner takes all. awinfor a win for city would close the gap to two points. tonight leeds host leicester with both clubs just hovering above the relegation zone.

mauricio pochettino at chelsea makes sense says their former striker chris sutton. the former spurs and southampton boss looks likely to replace graham potter after advanced talks have taken place at stamford bridge. in rugby league, england head coach shaun wane has named a new—look i9—man squad for their international against france this weekend. only jack welsby and captain george williams return from the side who lost against samoa in the world cup semifinals last year. wane says this is the first step towards their next world cup campaign in two years' time. and the quarterfinals at the world snooker championship are underway. defending champion ronnie 0'sullivan's playing his 100th match at the crucible theatre. he's against belgium's luca brecel. he has lost the first frame and 0'sullivan has just won the second so it is tied i—i. 0'sullivan has just won the second so it is tied 1—1. 13 is the target for victory there. you can watch on bbc two and the iplayer.

many people can't get a dentist for love nor money. they can't even get one for money because the waiting list for private dentists are long as well stop they are not taking new planes untiljuly according to one text. not much love about it, it is a business going to the dentist for many people but you need to and you can't at the moment and it is getting more expensive. shawn charlwood is with us, the chair of the british dental association.

mark, i promised to come to you. what's going on in there? to mark, i promised to come to you. what's going on in there?- what's going on in there? to be honest, what's going on in there? to be honest. it's _ what's going on in there? to be honest. it's a — what's going on in there? to be honest, it's a bit _ what's going on in there? to be honest, it's a bit of _ what's going on in there? to be honest, it's a bit of a _ what's going on in there? to be honest, it's a bit of a scam, - honest, it's a bit of a scam, especially— honest, it's a bit of a scam, especially in _ honest, it's a bit of a scam, especially in suffolk- honest, it's a bit of a scam, especially in suffolk where i honest, it's a bit of a scam, j especially in suffolk where i honest, it's a bit of a scam, - especially in suffolk where i live. if you _ especially in suffolk where i live. if you have — especially in suffolk where i live. if you have money— especially in suffolk where i live. if you have money you _ especially in suffolk where i live. if you have money you can - especially in suffolk where i live. . if you have money you can definitely -et if you have money you can definitely get a _ if you have money you can definitely get a dentist— if you have money you can definitely get a dentist where _ if you have money you can definitely get a dentist where i— if you have money you can definitely get a dentist where i live. _ if you have money you can definitely get a dentist where i live.— get a dentist where i live. tomorrow orthe get a dentist where i live. tomorrow or the next — get a dentist where i live. tomorrow or the next day? _ get a dentist where i live. tomorrow or the next day? tomorrow, - or the next day? tomorrow, definitely- — or the next day? tomorrow, definitely. first _ or the next day? tomorrow, definitely. first thing - or the next day? tomorrow, definitely. first thing in - or the next day? tomorrow, definitely. first thing in the | definitely. first thing in the morning _ definitely. first thing in the morning i_ definitely. first thing in the morning i could _ definitely. first thing in the morning i could get - definitely. first thing in the morning i could get one - definitely. first thing in the morning i could get one no| definitely. first thing in the - morning i could get one no problem in any— morning i could get one no problem in any dentist— morning i could get one no problem in any dentist in— morning i could get one no problem in any dentist in suffolk _ morning i could get one no problem in any dentist in suffolk but - morning i could get one no problem in any dentist in suffolk but none i in any dentist in suffolk but none of them — in any dentist in suffolk but none of them are — in any dentist in suffolk but none of them are taking _ in any dentist in suffolk but none of them are taking on _ in any dentist in suffolk but none of them are taking on nhs - in any dentist in suffolk but none i of them are taking on nhs people in any dentist in suffolk but none . of them are taking on nhs people of my age _ of them are taking on nhs people of my age my— of them are taking on nhs people of my age. my problem _ of them are taking on nhs people of my age. my problem was _ of them are taking on nhs people of my age. my problem was this, - my age. my problem was this, basically _ my age. my problem was this, basically i_ my age. my problem was this, basically. i always _ my age. my problem was this, basically. i always had - my age. my problem was this, basically. i always had to - my age. my problem was this, basically. i always had to get i my age. my problem was this, . basically. i always had to get my teeth— basically. i always had to get my teeth cleaned _ basically. i always had to get my teeth cleaned every— basically. i always had to get my teeth cleaned every 3—6 - basically. i always had to get my| teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. basically. i always had to get my i teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. i have _ teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. i have had _ teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. i have had gums _ teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. i have had gums bleeding _ teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. i have had gums bleeding since - teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. i have had gums bleeding since i. teeth cleaned every 3—6 months. i. have had gums bleeding since i was a kid and _ have had gums bleeding since i was a kid and have — have had gums bleeding since i was a kid and have never— have had gums bleeding since i was a kid and have never been— have had gums bleeding since i was a kid and have never been able - have had gums bleeding since i was a kid and have never been able to - have had gums bleeding since i was a kid and have never been able to get i kid and have never been able to get rid of— kid and have never been able to get rid of it _ kid and have never been able to get rid of it i_ kid and have never been able to get rid of it i have _ kid and have never been able to get rid of it. i have had _ kid and have never been able to get rid of it. i have had that _ kid and have never been able to get rid of it. i have had that every- kid and have never been able to get rid of it. i have had that every 3—6. rid of it. i have had that every 3—6 months. _ rid of it. i have had that every 3—6 months. i— rid of it. i have had that every 3—6 months. i paid— rid of it. i have had that every 3—6 months, i paid for— rid of it. i have had that every 3—6 months, i paid for it _ rid of it. i have had that every 3—6 months, i paid for it privately. - months, i paid for it privately. when — months, i paid for it privately. when we _ months, i paid for it privately. when we hit _ months, i paid for it privately. when we hit covid, _ months, i paid for it privately. when we hit covid, i- months, i paid for it privately. when we hit covid, i couldn't. months, i paid for it privately. i when we hit covid, i couldn't see months, i paid for it privately. - when we hit covid, i couldn't see a dentist— when we hit covid, i couldn't see a dentist and — when we hit covid, i couldn't see a dentist and got— when we hit covid, i couldn't see a dentist and got an _ when we hit covid, i couldn't see a dentist and got an infection. - when we hit covid, i couldn't see a dentist and got an infection. i- when we hit covid, i couldn't see a dentist and got an infection. i hadl dentist and got an infection. i had to pay— dentist and got an infection. i had to pay privately— dentist and got an infection. i had to pay privately to— dentist and got an infection. i had to pay privately to get _ dentist and got an infection. i had to pay privately to get a _ dentist and got an infection. i had to pay privately to get a tooth - to pay privately to get a tooth removed _ to pay privately to get a tooth removed during _ to pay privately to get a tooth removed during covid. - to pay privately to get a tooth removed during covid. afteri to pay privately to get a tooth -

removed during covid. after covid i -ot removed during covid. after covid i got a _ removed during covid. after covid i got a dentist— removed during covid. after covid i got a dentist but _ removed during covid. after covid i got a dentist but by— removed during covid. after covid i got a dentist but by that _ removed during covid. after covid i got a dentist but by that time - removed during covid. after covid i got a dentist but by that time my. got a dentist but by that time my tooth— got a dentist but by that time my tooth was— got a dentist but by that time my tooth was so— got a dentist but by that time my tooth was so infected, _ got a dentist but by that time my tooth was so infected, it - got a dentist but by that time my tooth was so infected, it had - tooth was so infected, it had infected _ tooth was so infected, it had infected three _ tooth was so infected, it had infected three of— tooth was so infected, it had infected three of my - tooth was so infected, it had infected three of my top - tooth was so infected, it had. infected three of my top three tooth was so infected, it had - infected three of my top three teeth and i ended — infected three of my top three teeth and i ended up— infected three of my top three teeth and i ended up losing _ infected three of my top three teeth and i ended up losing two _ infected three of my top three teeth and i ended up losing two of- infected three of my top three teeth and i ended up losing two of my- and i ended up losing two of my front— and i ended up losing two of my front teeth _ and i ended up losing two of my front teeth and _ and i ended up losing two of my front teeth and one _ and i ended up losing two of my front teeth and one to - and i ended up losing two of my front teeth and one to the - and i ended up losing two of my front teeth and one to the left i and i ended up losing two of my| front teeth and one to the left at the too — front teeth and one to the left at the too i— front teeth and one to the left at the top. i then _ front teeth and one to the left at the top. i then had _ front teeth and one to the left at the top. i then had to— front teeth and one to the left at the top. i then had to go- front teeth and one to the left at the top. i then had to go privatel the top. i then had to go private and nearly— the top. i then had to go private and nearly got— the top. i then had to go private and nearly got evicted _ the top. i then had to go private and nearly got evicted from - the top. i then had to go private and nearly got evicted from my| and nearly got evicted from my housing — and nearly got evicted from my housing association— and nearly got evicted from my housing association property . and nearly got evicted from my- housing association property because i coutdnt— housing association property because i couldn't afford _ housing association property because i couldn't afford to _ housing association property because i couldn't afford to pay _ housing association property because i couldn't afford to pay my— housing association property because i couldn't afford to pay my rent. - housing association property because i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i - i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i had to— i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i had to pay— i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i had to pay more _ i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i had to pay more than— i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i had to pay more than £1000 - i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i had to pay more than £1000 to. i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i i had to pay more than £1000 to get i couldn't afford to pay my rent. i - had to pay more than £1000 to get a dental— had to pay more than £1000 to get a dental piece — had to pay more than £1000 to get a dental piece made _ had to pay more than £1000 to get a dental piece made for— had to pay more than £1000 to get a dental piece made for my— had to pay more than £1000 to get a dental piece made for my mouth - had to pay more than £1000 to get a dental piece made for my mouth in. dental piece made for my mouth in order— dental piece made for my mouth in order to _ dental piece made for my mouth in order to get — dental piece made for my mouth in order to get back— dental piece made for my mouth in order to get back to _ dental piece made for my mouth in order to get back to work. - dental piece made for my mouth in order to get back to work. when i. order to get back to work. when i had it— order to get back to work. when i had it made — order to get back to work. when i had it made it _ order to get back to work. when i had it made it didn't— order to get back to work. when i had it made it didn't fit— order to get back to work. when i had it made it didn't fit properly. i had it made it didn't fit properly. i can't _ had it made it didn't fit properly. i can't eat— had it made it didn't fit properly. i can't eat with _ had it made it didn't fit properly. i can't eat with it, _ had it made it didn't fit properly. i can't eat with it, it's _ had it made it didn't fit properly. i can't eat with it, it's a - i can't eat with it, it's a nightmare _ i can't eat with it, it's a nightmare. i— i can't eat with it, it's a nightmare. i need - i can't eat with it, it's a i nightmare. i need some i can't eat with it, it's a - nightmare. i need some sort of bridge — nightmare. i need some sort of bridge built _ nightmare. i need some sort of bridge built in _ nightmare. i need some sort of bridge built in or— nightmare. i need some sort of bridge built in or something. i nightmare. i need some sort of. bridge built in or something. they are really— bridge built in or something. they are really expensive _ bridge built in or something. they are really expensive and - bridge built in or something. they are really expensive and i- bridge built in or something. they are really expensive and i could i are really expensive and i could never _ are really expensive and i could never afford _ are really expensive and i could never afford that _ are really expensive and i could never afford that on _ are really expensive and i could never afford that on the - are really expensive and i could never afford that on the wagesl are really expensive and i could i never afford that on the wages i'm on at _ never afford that on the wages i'm on at the _ never afford that on the wages i'm on at the moment. _ never afford that on the wages i'm on at the moment. i _ never afford that on the wages i'm on at the moment. i am _ never afford that on the wages i'm on at the moment. i am on - never afford that on the wages i'm . on at the moment. i am on universal credit— on at the moment. i am on universal credit at— on at the moment. i am on universal credit at the — on at the moment. i am on universal credit at the moment _ on at the moment. i am on universal credit at the moment and _ on at the moment. i am on universal credit at the moment and i'm - credit at the moment and i'm entitled — credit at the moment and i'm entitled to _ credit at the moment and i'm entitled to free _ credit at the moment and i'm entitled to free dental - credit at the moment and i'm entitled to free dental health| credit at the moment and i'm . entitled to free dental health but you just — entitled to free dental health but you just can't _ entitled to free dental health but you just can't get _ entitled to free dental health but you just can't get on _ entitled to free dental health but you just can't get on a _ entitled to free dental health but you just can't get on a list. - entitled to free dental health butj you just can't get on a list. there is you just can't get on a list. there is no _ you just can't get on a list. there is no list — you just can't get on a list. there is no list to— you just can't get on a list. there is no list to get— you just can't get on a list. there is no list to get on. _ you just can't get on a list. there is no list to get on. i _ you just can't get on a list. there is no list to get on. i contacted . is no list to get on. i contacted nhs _ is no list to get on. i contacted nhs england. _ is no list to get on. i contacted nhs england, like _ is no list to get on. i contacted nhs england, like the - is no list to get on. i contacted nhs england, like the chap- is no list to get on. i contacted | nhs england, like the chap you is no list to get on. i contacted - nhs england, like the chap you were speaking _ nhs england, like the chap you were speaking to— nhs england, like the chap you were speaking to earlier. _ nhs england, like the chap you were speaking to earlier. they _ nhs england, like the chap you were

speaking to earlier. they have - speaking to earlier. they have written — speaking to earlier. they have written letters _ speaking to earlier. they have written letters back _ speaking to earlier. they have. written letters back apologising speaking to earlier. they have - written letters back apologising and i 'ust written letters back apologising and iiust can't — written letters back apologising and iiust can't get — written letters back apologising and ijust can't get anywhere, _ written letters back apologising and ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. - written letters back apologising and ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. i. ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. i am stuck— ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. i am stuck in — ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. i am stuck in my— ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. i am stuck in my flat _ ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. i am stuck in my flat suffering - ijust can't get anywhere, nikki. ii am stuck in my flat suffering from anxiety _ am stuck in my flat suffering from anxiety and — am stuck in my flat suffering from anxiety and depression. _ am stuck in my flat suffering from anxiety and depression. i- am stuck in my flat suffering from anxiety and depression. i can't - anxiety and depression. i can't leave. _ anxiety and depression. i can't leave, i— anxiety and depression. ican't leave, i don't— anxiety and depression. i can't leave, i don't have _ anxiety and depression. i can't leave, i don't have a _ anxiety and depression. i can't . leave, i don't have a relationship because — leave, i don't have a relationship because i— leave, idon't have a relationship because i can't— leave, idon't have a relationship because i can't meet— leave, i don't have a relationship because i can't meet anyone. - leave, i don't have a relationship because i can't meet anyone. i. leave, i don't have a relationship i because i can't meet anyone. i can't find a _ because i can't meet anyone. i can't find a job— because i can't meet anyone. i can't find a job because _ because i can't meet anyone. i can't find a job because i— because i can't meet anyone. i can't find a job because i have _ because i can't meet anyone. i can't find a job because i have no- find a job because i have no confidence _ find a job because i have no confidence to— find a job because i have no confidence to go _ find a job because i have no confidence to go and - find a job because i have no confidence to go and look. find a job because i have no. confidence to go and look for find a job because i have no- confidence to go and look for work and there — confidence to go and look for work and there is— confidence to go and look for work and there is no— confidence to go and look for work and there is no help _ confidence to go and look for work and there is no help available - and there is no help available whatsoeven _ and there is no help available whatsoever.— and there is no help available whatsoever. �* , , ., whatsoever. and the bind you were in, ou whatsoever. and the bind you were in. you had — whatsoever. and the bind you were in. you had to _ whatsoever. and the bind you were in, you had to spend _ whatsoever. and the bind you were in, you had to spend £1000 - whatsoever. and the bind you were in, you had to spend £1000 so - whatsoever. and the bind you were in, you had to spend £1000 so you| in, you had to spend £1000 so you could get out of the house and go to work to make money. l could get out of the house and go to work to make money.— work to make money. i have always worked. i have _ work to make money. i have always worked. i have never— work to make money. i have always worked. i have never been - work to make money. i have always worked. i have never been on - worked. i have never been on lreneflts— worked. i have never been on benefits before. _ worked. i have never been on benefits before. so, - worked. i have never been on benefits before. so, yeah, i worked. i have never been on| benefits before. so, yeah, it's worked. i have never been on . benefits before. so, yeah, it's a nightmare _ benefits before. so, yeah, it's a nightmare-— benefits before. so, yeah, it's a niahtmare. ~ . �*, ., ., ., nightmare. what's going on at the moment, nightmare. what's going on at the moment. are _ nightmare. what's going on at the moment, are you _ nightmare. what's going on at the moment, are you in _ nightmare. what's going on at the moment, are you in constant - nightmare. what's going on at the l moment, are you in constant pain? no, i don't have pain but i need my no, idon't have pain but i need my teeth— no, i don't have pain but i need my teeth truilding _ no, i don't have pain but i need my teeth building. at _ no, i don't have pain but i need my teeth building. at the _ no, i don't have pain but i need my teeth building. at the minute - no, i don't have pain but i need my teeth building. at the minute i- no, i don't have pain but i need my teeth building. at the minute i aml teeth building. at the minute i am missing _ teeth building. at the minute i am missing my— teeth building. at the minute i am missing my top— teeth building. at the minute i am missing my top three _ teeth building. at the minute i am missing my top three teeth. - teeth building. at the minute i am missing my top three teeth. it - teeth building. at the minute i am missing my top three teeth. it is i teeth building. at the minute i aml missing my top three teeth. it is an embarrassment _ missing my top three teeth. it is an embarrassment more _ missing my top three teeth. it is an embarrassment more than - missing my top three teeth. it is an. embarrassment more than anything, missing my top three teeth. it is an - embarrassment more than anything, to face the _ embarrassment more than anything, to face the world — embarrassment more than anything, to face the world. to _ embarrassment more than anything, to face the world. to go _ embarrassment more than anything, to face the world. to go out _ embarrassment more than anything, to face the world. to go out there - embarrassment more than anything, to face the world. to go out there and - face the world. to go out there and talk to— face the world. to go out there and talk to people _ face the world. to go out there and talk to people. every— face the world. to go out there and talk to people. every dentist - face the world. to go out there and talk to people. every dentist i - face the world. to go out there and talk to people. every dentist i have| talk to people. every dentist i have contacted — talk to people. every dentist i have contacted say — talk to people. every dentist i have contacted say no, _ talk to people. every dentist i have contacted say no, we _ talk to people. every dentist i have contacted say no, we are _ talk to people. every dentist i have contacted say no, we are not - talk to people. every dentist i have| contacted say no, we are not taking on people _ contacted say no, we are not taking on people trut— contacted say no, we are not taking on people but in— contacted say no, we are not taking on people but in the _ contacted say no, we are not taking on people but in the same - contacted say no, we are not taking on people but in the same breath . on people but in the same breath they say. —

on people but in the same breath they say. you _ on people but in the same breath they say. you can— on people but in the same breath they say, you can come _ on people but in the same breath| they say, you can come tomorrow on people but in the same breath . they say, you can come tomorrow if you have _ they say, you can come tomorrow if you have money _ they say, you can come tomorrow if you have money. all— they say, you can come tomorrow if you have money. all the _ they say, you can come tomorrow if you have money. all the same - you have money. all the same dentists — you have money. all the same dentists have _ you have money. all the same dentists have these _ you have money. all the same dentists have these things - you have money. all the same . dentists have these things called tooth— dentists have these things called tooth clubs _ dentists have these things called tooth clubs. it's _ dentists have these things called tooth clubs. it's a _ dentists have these things called tooth clubs. it's a scam. - dentists have these things called tooth clubs. it's a scam. in - dentists have these things called tooth clubs. it's a scam. in the l dentists have these things called . tooth clubs. it's a scam. in the 70s and 80s. _ tooth clubs. it's a scam. in the 70s and 80s. the — tooth clubs. it's a scam. in the 70s and 80s, the dentists— tooth clubs. it's a scam. in the 70s and 80s, the dentists rip— tooth clubs. it's a scam. in the 70s and 80s, the dentists rip people i tooth clubs. it's a scam. in the 70s| and 80s, the dentists rip people off and 80s, the dentists rip people off and they— and 80s, the dentists rip people off and they were — and 80s, the dentists rip people off and they were charging _ and 80s, the dentists rip people off and they were charging for- and 80s, the dentists rip people off. and they were charging for treatment that they— and they were charging for treatment that they were — and they were charging for treatment that they were not _ and they were charging for treatment that they were not doing _ and they were charging for treatment that they were not doing so - that they were not doing so something _ that they were not doing so something had _ that they were not doing so something had to _ that they were not doing so something had to be - that they were not doing so something had to be done. that they were not doing so - something had to be done about how it was— something had to be done about how it was funded — something had to be done about how it was funded. and _ something had to be done about how it was funded. and now _ something had to be done about how it was funded. and now they- something had to be done about how it was funded. and now they are - it was funded. and now they are underfunded _ it was funded. and now they are underfunded. pi.— it was funded. and now they are underfunded.— it was funded. and now they are underfunded. �* , ., ., underfunded. a scam, strong word. absolute scam, _ underfunded. a scam, strong word. absolute scam, it _ underfunded. a scam, strong word. absolute scam, it is _ underfunded. a scam, strong word. absolute scam, it is a _ underfunded. a scam, strong word. absolute scam, it is a scam. - underfunded. a scam, strong word. absolute scam, it is a scam. can i underfunded. a scam, strong word. | absolute scam, it is a scam. can you tell me _ absolute scam, it is a scam. can you tell me it's— absolute scam, it is a scam. can you tell me it's not— absolute scam, it is a scam. can you tell me it's not a _ absolute scam, it is a scam. can you tell me it's not a scam? _ absolute scam, it is a scam. can you tell me it's not a scam?— tell me it's not a scam? mark, i have every _ tell me it's not a scam? mark, i have every sympathy _ tell me it's not a scam? mark, i have every sympathy for - tell me it's not a scam? mark, i have every sympathy for your i have every sympathy for your position but i can assure you the dentists of this country are not operating a scam. i can tell you that. what they are doing is... then;r that. what they are doing is... they are refusing — that. what they are doing is... they are refusing to _ that. what they are doing is... they are refusing to treat _ that. what they are doing is... they are refusing to treat the people of this country— are refusing to treat the people of this country when _ are refusing to treat the people of this country when they _ are refusing to treat the people of this country when they should - are refusing to treat the people of this country when they should be i this country when they should be treating — this country when they should be treating them _ this country when they should be treating them. it's— this country when they should be treating them. it's not— this country when they should be treating them. it's not means . treating them. it's not means tested — treating them. it's not means tested. millionaires— treating them. it's not means tested. millionaires can - treating them. it's not means tested. millionaires can go i treating them. it's not means tested. millionaires can go to| treating them. it's not means - tested. millionaires can go to the dentist— tested. millionaires can go to the dentist whenever— tested. millionaires can go to the

dentist whenever they— tested. millionaires can go to the dentist whenever they want - tested. millionaires can go to the dentist whenever they want and i tested. millionaires can go to the i dentist whenever they want and still -et dentist whenever they want and still get free _ dentist whenever they want and still get free nhs— dentist whenever they want and still get free nhs dental— dentist whenever they want and still get free nhs dental prices. - dentist whenever they want and still get free nhs dental prices. the - get free nhs dental prices. the people — get free nhs dental prices. the people that _ get free nhs dental prices. the people that can't _ get free nhs dental prices. the people that can't get _ get free nhs dental prices. the people that can't get the - get free nhs dental prices. the . people that can't get the prices... i don't _ people that can't get the prices... i don't get — people that can't get the prices... i don't get it _ people that can't get the prices... i don't get it— i don't get it. let's get shawn's answer to _ i don't get it. let's get shawn's answer to this. _ i don't get it. let's get shawn's answer to this. if _ i don't get it. let's get shawn's answer to this. if i _ i don't get it. let's get shawn's answer to this. if i can - i don't get it. let's get shawn's answer to this. if i can give - i don't get it. let's get shawn's answer to this. if i can give you i don't get it. let's get shawn's i answer to this. if i can give you a iece of answer to this. if i can give you a piece of information _ answer to this. if i can give you a piece of information that - answer to this. if i can give you a piece of information that might i piece of information that might change your view. there is only enough nhs dentist commission for this country for 50% of the population. the funding available to deliver dentistry within the nhs is not there for every single adult or child in the country. it is broadly there for 50% of the population. it sounds to me as though you are one of the 50% whose funding is not available. of the 5096 whose funding is not available. ~ , ., ., ,, ., ., available. when you talk to a dentist and _ available. when you talk to a dentist and say _ available. when you talk to a dentist and say to _ available. when you talk to a dentist and say to them, - available. when you talk to a dentist and say to them, can| available. when you talk to a | dentist and say to them, can i available. when you talk to a - dentist and say to them, can i get an appointment _ dentist and say to them, can i get an appointment and _ dentist and say to them, can i get an appointment and they- dentist and say to them, can i get an appointment and they say- dentist and say to them, can i get an appointment and they say no, i dentist and say to them, can i get. an appointment and they say no, and you ask, _ an appointment and they say no, and you ask, you — an appointment and they say no, and you ask, you are _ an appointment and they say no, and you ask, you are an— an appointment and they say no, and you ask, you are an nhs— an appointment and they say no, and you ask, you are an nhs dentist, - you ask, you are an nhs dentist, they— you ask, you are an nhs dentist, they all— you ask, you are an nhs dentist, they all say— you ask, you are an nhs dentist, they all say the _ you ask, you are an nhs dentist, they all say the same, _ you ask, you are an nhs dentist, they all say the same, they - you ask, you are an nhs dentist, they all say the same, they onlyl they all say the same, they only have _ they all say the same, they only have one — they all say the same, they only have one nhs _ they all say the same, they only have one nhs dentist— they all say the same, they only have one nhs dentist in- they all say the same, they only have one nhs dentist in their. have one nhs dentist in their practice _ have one nhs dentist in their practice. there _ have one nhs dentist in their practice. there are _ have one nhs dentist in their practice. there are 20 - have one nhs dentist in their. practice. there are 20 dentists have one nhs dentist in their- practice. there are 20 dentists in one practice _ practice. there are 20 dentists in one practice but _ practice. there are 20 dentists in one practice but only— practice. there are 20 dentists in one practice but only one - practice. there are 20 dentists in one practice but only one of- practice. there are 20 dentists in| one practice but only one of them practice. there are 20 dentists in i one practice but only one of them is nhs _ one practice but only one of them is nhs. happens— one practice but only one of them is nhs. happens to— one practice but only one of them is nhs. happens to be _ one practice but only one of them is

nhs. happens to be the _ one practice but only one of them is nhs. happens to be the youngest . nhs. happens to be the youngest person— nhs. happens to be the youngest person there _ nhs. happens to be the youngest person there it— nhs. happens to be the youngest person there. it is _ nhs. happens to be the youngest person there. it is a _ nhs. happens to be the youngest person there. it is a scam, - nhs. happens to be the youngest person there. it is a scam, isn't . person there. it is a scam, isn't it? ., , ., ., ., ~ it? no, let me explain again. a ractice it? no, let me explain again. a practice may — it? no, let me explain again. a practice may have _ it? no, let me explain again. a practice may have an _ it? no, let me explain again. a practice may have an nhs - it? no, let me explain again. a i practice may have an nhs contract that only allows them to deliver enough dentistry for one dentist will stop it is rationed. that's what i'm trying to say to you. if you are an nhs practice it doesn't mean you can see endless numbers of nhs patients like yourself. we have a quota of units of dental activity we can deliver and when that is reached there is no more funding. so you would be carrying out the work for nothing and we are having to pay, as i said earlier, we are a high street small business. we pay for our staff, the cost of the building, the materials. that's the bit that a lot of people don't understand. there is a quota of activity and when it is reached in a practice, there is no more funding for the nhs. is practice, there is no more funding for the nhs-— for the nhs. is there a doctor in the house? _ for the nhs. is there a doctor in the house? there _

for the nhs. is there a doctor in the house? there is _ for the nhs. is there a doctor in the house? there is one - for the nhs. is there a doctor in the house? there is one on - for the nhs. is there a doctor in the house? there is one on the| the house? there is one on the phone, kate in glasgow. l the house? there is one on the phone, kate in glasgow. i absolutely arree phone, kate in glasgow. i absolutely a . ree with phone, kate in glasgow. i absolutely agree with the _ phone, kate in glasgow. i absolutely agree with the dental— phone, kate in glasgow. i absolutely agree with the dental association - agree with the dental association point, _ agree with the dental association point, it— agree with the dental association point, it is— agree with the dental association point, it is absolutely relevant. people — point, it is absolutely relevant. people in — point, it is absolutely relevant. people in the country do not understand the funding that goes into both — understand the funding that goes into both general practice and general— into both general practice and general dental practice is limited. i know— general dental practice is limited. i know the — general dental practice is limited. i know the debate about sudan and everything was on earlier, and it is a tragedy — everything was on earlier, and it is a tragedy. everyone expects to have everything _ a tragedy. everyone expects to have everything for nothing. also, the media _ everything for nothing. also, the media and — everything for nothing. also, the media and quite a lot of the celebrity— media and quite a lot of the celebrity parts of the uk criticise dentists — celebrity parts of the uk criticise dentists and gps and we are literally— dentists and gps and we are literally cornershop people trying to do _ literally cornershop people trying to do the — literally cornershop people trying to do the best we can for our patients— to do the best we can for our patients on very tight budgets now. young _ patients on very tight budgets now. young dentists and young gps don't really— young dentists and young gps don't really want to work in this country any more — really want to work in this country any more they are undervalued stop not very— any more they are undervalued stop not very much so by the people they actually _ not very much so by the people they actually see face to face because

once _ actually see face to face because once a _ actually see face to face because once a patient gets to see their dentist— once a patient gets to see their dentist or— once a patient gets to see their dentist or gp, i would say most of them _ dentist or gp, i would say most of them are — dentist or gp, i would say most of them are pretty delighted once they -et them are pretty delighted once they get in _ them are pretty delighted once they get in to— them are pretty delighted once they get in to see somebody. it's the backlog, — get in to see somebody. it's the backlog, and this government is lying _ backlog, and this government is lying to— backlog, and this government is lying to the population saying you can go— lying to the population saying you can go to — lying to the population saying you can go to ca pharmacist or a physiotherapist about this. go and see anybody else apart from your dentist— see anybody else apart from your dentist or— see anybody else apart from your dentist or doctor.— dentist or doctor. what is it like under the _ dentist or doctor. what is it like under the scottish _ dentist or doctor. what is it like | under the scottish government? dentist or doctor. what is it like - under the scottish government? it's the same position here. nhs gps, dentists _ the same position here. nhs gps, dentists have their own quotas. i have _ dentists have their own quotas. i have seen— dentists have their own quotas. i have seen patients myself because they have — have seen patients myself because they have nowhere else to go and you flippantly _ they have nowhere else to go and you flippantly said earlier, surely you have _ flippantly said earlier, surely you have a _ flippantly said earlier, surely you have a better gp than that who will see you _ have a better gp than that who will see you if — have a better gp than that who will see you if you have heard dental problem — see you if you have heard dental problem and you canjust get see you if you have heard dental problem and you can just get the antibiotics. it is not that simple. the last— antibiotics. it is not that simple. the last case i was involved in, really _ the last case i was involved in, really quite an ill patient, who i ended — really quite an ill patient, who i ended up— really quite an ill patient, who i ended up phoning our local dentist about— ended up phoning our local dentist about myself in order to get them

seen _ about myself in order to get them seen that— about myself in order to get them seen that afternoon. of course, when that level _ seen that afternoon. of course, when that level of _ seen that afternoon. of course, when that level of communication happens between _ that level of communication happens between professionals the patient comes— between professionals the patient comes first. the trouble is that everybody _ comes first. the trouble is that everybodyjust expects that the nhs will give _ everybodyjust expects that the nhs will give them everything for nothing _ will give them everything for nothing. particularly in scotland where _ nothing. particularly in scotland where all — nothing. particularly in scotland where all prescriptions are free. and people just think they can go up to the _ and people just think they can go up to the door— and people just think they can go up to the door and get everything for nothing _ to the door and get everything for nothing. and the media don't help by constantly— nothing. and the media don't help by constantly berating gps and dentists. for instance, i am a gp, i'm 60. _ dentists. for instance, i am a gp, i'm 60. the— dentists. for instance, i am a gp, i'm 60, the same age as you, nikki, and i— i'm 60, the same age as you, nikki, and i know— i'm 60, the same age as you, nikki, and i knowa— i'm 60, the same age as you, nikki, and i know a lot about hrt, but the media _ and i know a lot about hrt, but the media has— and i know a lot about hrt, but the media has had it in the last six months — media has had it in the last six months that we know nothing about hrt. ., ., �* . . , hrt. you won't get criticised here, ou know hrt. you won't get criticised here, you know that- _ hrt. you won't get criticised here, you know that. i _ hrt. you won't get criticised here, you know that. i know, _ hrt. you won't get criticised here, you know that. i know, but- hrt. you won't get criticised here, you know that. i know, but i - you know that. i know, but i think--- _ you know that. i know, but i think--- i— you know that. i know, but i think... i want _ you know that. i know, but i think... i want to _ you know that. i know, but i think... i want to apologise | you know that. i know, but i i think... i want to apologise for bein: think... i want to apologise for being flippant _ think. .. i want to apologise for being flippant earlier— think... i want to apologise for being flippant earlier on. - think... i want to apologise for i being flippant earlier on. forgive me, but my point was... being flippant earlier on. forgive me, but my point was. . .- being flippant earlier on. forgive me, but my point was... mark of course i accept. _

me, but my point was... mark of course i accept. the _ me, but my point was. .. mark of course i accept. the point- me, but my point was... mark of course i accept. the point i - me, but my point was... mark of course i accept. the point i was. course i accept. the point i was makin: , course i accept. the point i was making. and — course i accept. the point i was making. and l— course i accept. the point i was making, and i want _ course i accept. the point i was making, and i want to - course i accept. the point i was making, and i want to ask- course i accept. the point i was making, and i want to ask you | course i accept. the point i was- making, and i want to ask you now, i think it was george, apologies if it wasn't. whoever it was went to the dentist and the dentist said, i can't see you... dentist and the dentist said, i can't see you. . ._ can't see you... because they haven't got — can't see you... because they haven't got any _ can't see you... because they haven't got any space. - can't see you... because they haven't got any space. i - can't see you... because they| haven't got any space. i know. can't see you... because they - haven't got any space. i know. gps don't _ haven't got any space. i know. gps don't have — haven't got any space. i know. gps don't have space either, that's the problem — don't have space either, that's the problem. and that's the real fundamental government problem, whether— fundamental government problem, whether it's england, scotland or anywhere — whether it's england, scotland or anywhere. the whole system, and lrasically— anywhere. the whole system, and basically young gps and younger dentists — basically young gps and younger dentists are faced with massive training — dentists are faced with massive training bills and loans and the rest of— training bills and loans and the rest of it. _ training bills and loans and the rest of it, not great salaries until you actually get there. and even when _ you actually get there. and even when you — you actually get there. and even when you get there, dentists and gps in the _ when you get there, dentists and gps in the last— when you get there, dentists and gps in the last ten years, the whole thing _ in the last ten years, the whole thing has — in the last ten years, the whole thing has been basically, the income into the _ thing has been basically, the income into the practices have been switched _ into the practices have been switched off. and the governments, whether— switched off. and the governments, whether it _

switched off. and the governments, whether it is england or scotland, has wasted, particularly during covid, — has wasted, particularly during covid, enormous amounts of money massively— covid, enormous amounts of money massively centralising the system. therefore — massively centralising the system. therefore when george, round the corner— therefore when george, round the corner from — therefore when george, round the corner from his dentist, can't get in to— corner from his dentist, can't get in to see — corner from his dentist, can't get in to see the dentist, who would normally— in to see the dentist, who would normally ring the gp and say i am in terrible _ normally ring the gp and say i am in terrible trouble, i don't feel well, i am _ terrible trouble, i don't feel well, i am hot — terrible trouble, i don't feel well, i am hot and shivery, i have a sore tooth— i am hot and shivery, i have a sore tooth and — i am hot and shivery, i have a sore tooth and nothing is right. at the end of— tooth and nothing is right. at the end of the — tooth and nothing is right. at the end of the day dental problems can cause _ end of the day dental problems can cause sepsis which can lead to life—threatening illness. cause sepsis which can lead to life-threatening illness. general health. exactly. _ life-threatening illness. general health. exactly. dentistry- life-threatening illness. general health. exactly. dentistry is- life-threatening illness. general health. exactly. dentistry is so i health. exactly. dentistry is so fundamental _ health. exactly. dentistry is so fundamental to _ health. exactly. dentistry is so fundamental to general- health. exactly. dentistry is so - fundamental to general well-being fundamental to general well— being health _ fundamental to general well— being health it _ fundamental to general well—being health. it is important for your cardiovascular system, your renal system, — cardiovascular system, your renal system, everything. itrgr cardiovascular system, your renal system, everything.— system, everything. i try to say earlier and _ system, everything. i try to say earlier and you _ system, everything. i try to say earlier and you said _ system, everything. i try to say earlier and you said it - system, everything. i try to say earlier and you said it so - system, everything. i try to say earlier and you said it so much | earlier and you said it so much better. i want you to listen to karen in letchworth who i think follows on from what you are saying, kate to an extent. karen, what happened or didn't happen? l kate to an extent. karen, what happened or didn't happen? i woke up on a friday and _

happened or didn't happen? i woke up on a friday and l _ happened or didn't happen? i woke up on a friday and i felt _ happened or didn't happen? i woke up on a friday and i felt awful. _ happened or didn't happen? i woke up on a friday and i felt awful. all - happened or didn't happen? i woke up on a friday and i felt awful. all my - on a friday and i felt awful. all my mouth— on a friday and i felt awful. all my mouth had — on a friday and i felt awful. all my mouth had all— on a friday and i felt awful. all my mouth had all swollen _ on a friday and i felt awful. all my mouth had all swollen up, - on a friday and i felt awful. all my mouth had all swollen up, my- on a friday and i felt awful. all my| mouth had all swollen up, my eye, on a friday and i felt awful. all my. mouth had all swollen up, my eye, it was really— mouth had all swollen up, my eye, it was really bad — mouth had all swollen up, my eye, it was really bad and _ mouth had all swollen up, my eye, it was really bad and i— mouth had all swollen up, my eye, it was really bad and i was _ mouth had all swollen up, my eye, it was really bad and i was in _ mouth had all swollen up, my eye, it was really bad and i was in agony. ii was really bad and i was in agony. i knew— was really bad and i was in agony. i knew it _ was really bad and i was in agony. i knew it was — was really bad and i was in agony. i knew it was from _ was really bad and i was in agony. i knew it was from a _ was really bad and i was in agony. i knew it was from a tooth. - was really bad and i was in agony. i knew it was from a tooth. i - was really bad and i was in agony. i knew it was from a tooth. i have i was really bad and i was in agony. ii knew it was from a tooth. i have had a few _ knew it was from a tooth. i have had a few niggles — knew it was from a tooth. i have had a few niggles but— knew it was from a tooth. i have had a few niggles but nothing _ knew it was from a tooth. i have had a few niggles but nothing much. - knew it was from a tooth. i have had a few niggles but nothing much. butj a few niggles but nothing much. but when _ a few niggles but nothing much. but when i _ a few niggles but nothing much. but when i woke — a few niggles but nothing much. but when i woke up— a few niggles but nothing much. but when i woke up i— a few niggles but nothing much. but when i woke up i was— a few niggles but nothing much. but when i woke up i was in— a few niggles but nothing much. but when i woke up i was in agony. - a few niggles but nothing much. but when i woke up i was in agony. i- when i woke up i was in agony. i rang _ when i woke up i was in agony. i rang round — when i woke up i was in agony. i rang round trying _ when i woke up i was in agony. i rang round trying to _ when i woke up i was in agony. i rang round trying to get - when i woke up i was in agony. i rang round trying to get into - when i woke up i was in agony. i rang round trying to get into a l rang round trying to get into a dentist— rang round trying to get into a dentist because _ rang round trying to get into a dentist because i— rang round trying to get into a dentist because i hadn't - rang round trying to get into a dentist because i hadn't beenl rang round trying to get into a - dentist because i hadn't been able to get— dentist because i hadn't been able to get into — dentist because i hadn't been able to get into a — dentist because i hadn't been able to get into a dentist. _ dentist because i hadn't been able to get into a dentist. i— dentist because i hadn't been able to get into a dentist. i rang - dentist because i hadn't been ablej to get into a dentist. i rang round, ringing _ to get into a dentist. i rang round, ringing hitchen. _ to get into a dentist. i rang round, ringing hitchen, letchworth, - ringing hitchen, letchworth, stevenage _ ringing hitchen, letchworth, stevenage, anywhere - ringing hitchen, letchworth, stevenage, anywhere and i ringing hitchen, letchworth, - stevenage, anywhere and couldn't get in anywhere _ stevenage, anywhere and couldn't get inanywhere i— stevenage, anywhere and couldn't get in anywhere. i ended _ stevenage, anywhere and couldn't get in anywhere. i ended up _ stevenage, anywhere and couldn't get in anywhere. i ended up ringing - stevenage, anywhere and couldn't get in anywhere. i ended up ringing 111- in anywhere. i ended up ringing 111 and they— in anywhere. i ended up ringing 111 and they said _ in anywhere. i ended up ringing 111 and they said they— in anywhere. i ended up ringing 111 and they said they would - in anywhere. i ended up ringing 111 and they said they would see - in anywhere. i ended up ringing 111 and they said they would see what they could — and they said they would see what they could do _ and they said they would see what they could do. they _ and they said they would see what they could do. they said _ and they said they would see what they could do. they said they - they could do. they said they couldn't— they could do. they said they couldn't get _ they could do. they said they couldn't get me _ they could do. they said they couldn't get me into- they could do. they said they couldn't get me into a - they could do. they said they| couldn't get me into a dentist they could do. they said they i couldn't get me into a dentist so they could do. they said they - couldn't get me into a dentist so to id couldn't get me into a dentist so to go to— couldn't get me into a dentist so to go to my— couldn't get me into a dentist so to go to my local— couldn't get me into a dentist so to go to my local hospital, _ couldn't get me into a dentist so to go to my local hospital, which - couldn't get me into a dentist so to go to my local hospital, which wasi go to my local hospital, which was in stevenage _ go to my local hospital, which was in stevenage. so _ go to my local hospital, which was in stevenage. so i _ go to my local hospital, which was in stevenage. so i went— go to my local hospital, which was in stevenage. so i went to - go to my local hospital, which was in stevenage. so i went to my- go to my local hospital, which wasl in stevenage. so i went to my local hospital. _ in stevenage. so i went to my local hospital. got— in stevenage. so i went to my local hospital, got there _ in stevenage. so i went to my local hospital, got there about _ in stevenage. so i went to my local hospital, got there about ten - hospital, got there about ten o'clock— hospital, got there about ten o'clock in— hospital, got there about ten o'clock in the _ hospital, got there about ten o'clock in the morning. - hospital, got there about ten o'clock in the morning. my. hospital, got there about ten - o'clock in the morning. my daughter took me _ o'clock in the morning. my daughter took me we — o'clock in the morning. my daughter took me we had _ o'clock in the morning. my daughter took me. we had to— o'clock in the morning. my daughter took me. we had to go— o'clock in the morning. my daughter took me. we had to go through - o'clock in the morning. my daughter took me. we had to go through the i took me. we had to go through the a85 _ took me. we had to go through the a85 we _

took me. we had to go through the a85 we waited _ took me. we had to go through the a&e. we waited three _ took me. we had to go through the a&e. we waited three or— took me. we had to go through the a&e. we waited three or four- took me. we had to go through the j a&e. we waited three or four hours in a85 _ a&e. we waited three or four hours in a85 went— a&e. we waited three or four hours in a&e. went into— a&e. we waited three or four hours in a&e. went into see _ a&e. we waited three or four hours in a&e. went into see a _ a&e. we waited three or four hours in a&e. went into see a doctor, - in a&e. went into see a doctor, nurse — in a&e. went into see a doctor, nurse they— in a&e. went into see a doctor, nurse. they turned _ in a&e. went into see a doctor, nurse. they turned round - in a&e. went into see a doctor, nurse. they turned round and l in a&e. went into see a doctor, . nurse. they turned round and said, we don't _ nurse. they turned round and said, we don't deal— nurse. they turned round and said, we don't deal with _ nurse. they turned round and said, we don't deal with teeth _ nurse. they turned round and said, we don't deal with teeth here. - nurse. they turned round and said, we don't deal with teeth here. i- we don't deal with teeth here. i said. _ we don't deal with teeth here. i said. you — we don't deal with teeth here. i said. you must _ we don't deal with teeth here. i said, you must deal— we don't deal with teeth here. i said, you must deal with- we don't deal with teeth here. i said, you must deal with teeth. j we don't deal with teeth here. i- said, you must deal with teeth. no, we don't _ said, you must deal with teeth. no, we don't deal— said, you must deal with teeth. no, we don't deal with _ said, you must deal with teeth. no, we don't deal with teeth _ said, you must deal with teeth. no, we don't deal with teeth here. - said, you must deal with teeth. no, we don't deal with teeth here. youl we don't deal with teeth here. you will have _ we don't deal with teeth here. you will have to — we don't deal with teeth here. you will have to go _ we don't deal with teeth here. you will have to go to _ we don't deal with teeth here. you will have to go to dunstable - will have to go to dunstable hospital _ will have to go to dunstable hospital i— will have to go to dunstable hospital. i said, _ will have to go to dunstable hospital. i said, you're - will have to go to dunstable . hospital. i said, you'rejoking, will have to go to dunstable - hospital. i said, you'rejoking, i have— hospital. i said, you'rejoking, i have been— hospital. i said, you'rejoking, i have been here _ hospital. i said, you'rejoking, i have been here all— hospital. i said, you'rejoking, i have been here all this- hospital. i said, you'rejoking, i have been here all this time, i. hospital. i said, you'rejoking, i. have been here all this time, i am in agony — have been here all this time, i am in agony you _ have been here all this time, i am in agony you can _ have been here all this time, i am in agony, you can see _ have been here all this time, i am in agony, you can see if— have been here all this time, i am in agony, you can see if i- have been here all this time, i am in agony, you can see if i have - have been here all this time, i am in agony, you can see if i have anl in agony, you can see if i have an infection. — in agony, you can see if i have an infection. at— in agony, you can see if i have an infection, at least _ in agony, you can see if i have an infection, at least give _ in agony, you can see if i have an infection, at least give me - infection, at least give me antibiotics. _ infection, at least give me antibiotics. they— infection, at least give me antibiotics. they said - infection, at least give me antibiotics. they said no. i infection, at least give me . antibiotics. they said no. my daughter— antibiotics. they said no. my daughter then _ antibiotics. they said no. my daughter then had _ antibiotics. they said no. my daughter then had to- antibiotics. they said no. my daughter then had to take i antibiotics. they said no. myl daughter then had to take me antibiotics. they said no. my- daughter then had to take me all the way to— daughter then had to take me all the way to the _ daughter then had to take me all the way to the luton— daughter then had to take me all the way to the luton and _ daughter then had to take me all the way to the luton and dunstable - way to the luton and dunstable hospital — way to the luton and dunstable hospital we _ way to the luton and dunstable hospital. we went _ way to the luton and dunstable hospital. we went in _ way to the luton and dunstable hospital. we went in and - way to the luton and dunstable hospital. we went in and again| way to the luton and dunstable - hospital. we went in and again they said. _ hospital. we went in and again they said. you _ hospital. we went in and again they said. you have — hospital. we went in and again they said. you have to _ hospital. we went in and again they said, you have to go _ hospital. we went in and again they said, you have to go through- hospital. we went in and again they said, you have to go through a&e. i hospital. we went in and again they. said, you have to go through a&e. so we ended _ said, you have to go through a&e. so we ended up. — said, you have to go through a&e. so we ended up. we— said, you have to go through a&e. so we ended up, we waited _ said, you have to go through a&e. so we ended up, we waited and - said, you have to go through a&e. so we ended up, we waited and waited, i we ended up, we waited and waited, the gueueing — we ended up, we waited and waited, the gueueing was _ we ended up, we waited and waited, the queueing was horrendous. - we ended up, we waited and waited, the queueing was horrendous. in - we ended up, we waited and waited, j the queueing was horrendous. in the end i— the queueing was horrendous. in the end i got— the queueing was horrendous. in the end i got to — the queueing was horrendous. in the end i got to see _ the queueing was horrendous. in the end i got to see a— the queueing was horrendous. in the end i got to see a doctor— the queueing was horrendous. in the end i got to see a doctor about- end i got to see a doctor about 10130pm~ _ end i got to see a doctor about 1030pm. by— end i got to see a doctor about

10:30pm. bythis_ end i got to see a doctor about 10:30pm. by this time, - end i got to see a doctor about 10:30pm. by this time, well, i| end i got to see a doctor about. 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing _ 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing the — 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing the will— 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing the will to _ 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing the will to live, _ 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing the will to live, i— 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing the will to live, i felt - 10:30pm. by this time, well, i was losing the will to live, i felt that i losing the will to live, i felt that bad~ _ losing the will to live, i felt that bad~ the — losing the will to live, i felt that bad. the doctor— losing the will to live, i felt that bad. the doctor said, _ losing the will to live, i felt that bad. the doctor said, i- losing the will to live, i felt that bad. the doctor said, i don't- losing the will to live, i felt that. bad. the doctor said, i don't really know_ bad. the doctor said, i don't really know what— bad. the doctor said, i don't really know what we _ bad. the doctor said, i don't really know what we can _ bad. the doctor said, i don't really know what we can do _ bad. the doctor said, i don't really know what we can do for _ bad. the doctor said, i don't really know what we can do for you. - bad. the doctor said, i don't really know what we can do for you. i - bad. the doctor said, i don't really. know what we can do for you. i said, you've _ know what we can do for you. i said, you've got _ know what we can do for you. i said, you've got to — know what we can do for you. i said, you've got to do _ know what we can do for you. i said, you've got to do something, - know what we can do for you. i said, you've got to do something, the - know what we can do for you. i said, | you've got to do something, the pain is terrible _ you've got to do something, the pain is terrible you — you've got to do something, the pain is terrible. you can _ you've got to do something, the pain is terrible. you can see _ you've got to do something, the pain is terrible. you can see my— you've got to do something, the pain is terrible. you can see my face. - is terrible. you can see my face. swollen, — is terrible. you can see my face. swollen, yeah _ is terrible. you can see my face. swollen, yeah. he _ is terrible. you can see my face. swollen, yeah.— swollen, yeah. he said the only thin i swollen, yeah. he said the only thing i can _ swollen, yeah. he said the only thing i can do — swollen, yeah. he said the only thing i can do is _ swollen, yeah. he said the only thing i can do is we _ swollen, yeah. he said the only thing i can do is we can - swollen, yeah. he said the only thing i can do is we can lance . swollen, yeah. he said the only i thing i can do is we can lance the gum— thing i can do is we can lance the gum to— thing i can do is we can lance the gum to release _ thing i can do is we can lance the gum to release some _ thing i can do is we can lance the gum to release some of- thing i can do is we can lance the gum to release some of the - thing i can do is we can lance the gum to release some of the plusl thing i can do is we can lance the - gum to release some of the plus from it. i gum to release some of the plus from it i thought. — gum to release some of the plus from it ithought. oh— gum to release some of the plus from it. i thought, oh god. _ gum to release some of the plus from it. i thought, oh god. i've _ gum to release some of the plus from it. i thought, oh god. i've got - gum to release some of the plus from it. i thought, oh god. i've got to- it. i thought, oh god. i've got to have _ it. i thought, oh god. i've got to have something, _ it. i thought, oh god. i've got to have something, i— it. i thought, oh god. i've got to have something, i can't - it. i thought, oh god. i've got to have something, i can't carry. it. i thought, oh god. i've got to have something, i can't carry oni have something, i can't carry on like this — have something, ican't carry on like this. with— have something, i can't carry on like this. with that _ have something, i can't carry on like this. with that he _ have something, i can't carry on like this. with that he went - have something, i can't carry on like this. with that he went and| have something, i can't carry on. like this. with that he went and got a scalpel, _ like this. with that he went and got a scalpel, ho— like this. with that he went and got a scalpel, no numbing _ like this. with that he went and got a scalpel, no numbing cream - like this. with that he went and got a scalpel, no numbing cream or- a scalpel, no numbing cream or anything — a scalpel, no numbing cream or anything hie— a scalpel, no numbing cream or an hint, ., ., a scalpel, no numbing cream or anything-- he - a scalpel, no numbing cream or anything.- he just - a scalpel, no numbing cream or anything.- he just cut l a scalpel, no numbing cream or. anything.- he just cut my anything. no local. he 'ust cut my cums. anything. no local. he 'ust cut my gums. the — anything. no local. he 'ust cut my gums. the pain h anything. no local. he 'ust cut my gums. the pain was _ anything. no local. hejust cut my gums. the pain was horrendous. l anything. no local. hejust cut my gums. the pain was horrendous. i nearly— gums. the pain was horrendous. i nearly broke — gums. the pain was horrendous. i nearly broke my— gums. the pain was horrendous. i nearly broke my daughter's - gums. the pain was horrendous. i nearly broke my daughter's hand, | nearly broke my daughter's hand, bless _ nearly broke my daughter's hand, bless her. — nearly broke my daughter's hand, bless her, because _ nearly broke my daughter's hand, bless her, because that _ nearly broke my daughter's hand, bless her, because that in - nearly broke my daughter's hand, bless her, because that in itself. bless her, because that in itself was so — bless her, because that in itself was so painful. _

bless her, because that in itself was so painful. but _ bless her, because that in itself was so painful. but when - bless her, because that in itself was so painful. but when some| bless her, because that in itself. was so painful. but when some of bless her, because that in itself- was so painful. but when some of the pus came _ was so painful. but when some of the pus came out, — was so painful. but when some of the pus came out, it— was so painful. but when some of the pus came out, it start _ was so painful. but when some of the pus came out, it start to— was so painful. but when some of the pus came out, it start to felt - pus came out, it start to felt easier~ — pus came out, it start to felt easier~ but— pus came out, it start to felt easier. but it _ pus came out, it start to felt easier. but it was _ pus came out, it start to feltl easier. but it was horrendous pus came out, it start to felt - easier. but it was horrendous as an experience — easier. but it was horrendous as an exoeriehce he— easier. but it was horrendous as an experience. he apologised - easier. but it was horrendous as an experience. he apologised and - easier. but it was horrendous as ani experience. he apologised and said, i experience. he apologised and said, i don't _ experience. he apologised and said, i don't know— experience. he apologised and said, i don't know what _ experience. he apologised and said, i don't know what else _ experience. he apologised and said, i don't know what else we _ experience. he apologised and said, i don't know what else we can - experience. he apologised and said, i don't know what else we can do - experience. he apologised and said, i don't know what else we can do fori i don't know what else we can do for you. i don't know what else we can do for you he _ i don't know what else we can do for you he said. — i don't know what else we can do for you. he said. i've_ i don't know what else we can do for you. he said, i've done _ i don't know what else we can do for you. he said, i've done that, - i don't know what else we can do for you. he said, i've done that, keep. you. he said, i've done that, keep dahhihg _ you. he said, i've done that, keep dahhihg the — you. he said, i've done that, keep dabbing the guns _ you. he said, i've done that, keep dabbing the guns and _ you. he said, i've done that, keep dabbing the guns and try- you. he said, i've done that, keep dabbing the guns and try to - you. he said, i've done that, keep dabbing the guns and try to get i you. he said, i've done that, keep dabbing the guns and try to get as much _ dabbing the guns and try to get as much pus— dabbing the guns and try to get as much pus as — dabbing the guns and try to get as much pus as you _ dabbing the guns and try to get as much pus as you can _ dabbing the guns and try to get as much pus as you can out. - dabbing the guns and try to get as much pus as you can out. he - dabbing the guns and try to get as much pus as you can out. he said| dabbing the guns and try to get as| much pus as you can out. he said i will give _ much pus as you can out. he said i will give you — much pus as you can out. he said i will give you antibiotics. _ much pus as you can out. he said i will give you antibiotics. hoist- much pus as you can out. he said i will give you antibiotics.— will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it is — will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it is fine _ will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it is fine now. _ will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it is fine now. i— will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it is fine now. i was- will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it is fine now. i was able i will give you antibiotics. how is it now? it is fine now. i was able to i now? it is fine now. i was able to rinu now? it is fine now. i was able to ring round _ now? it is fine now. i was able to ring round dentist _ now? it is fine now. i was able to ring round dentist the _ now? it is fine now. i was able to ring round dentist the next - now? it is fine now. i was able to ring round dentist the next day. i i ring round dentist the next day. i was able — ring round dentist the next day. i was able to— ring round dentist the next day. i was able to get _ ring round dentist the next day. i was able to get into _ ring round dentist the next day. i was able to get into see - ring round dentist the next day. i was able to get into see a - ring round dentist the next day. ii was able to get into see a dentist. i was able to get into see a dentist. i explained — was able to get into see a dentist. i explained what _ was able to get into see a dentist. i explained what had _ was able to get into see a dentist. i explained what had happened . was able to get into see a dentist. | i explained what had happened and they said _ i explained what had happened and they said they— i explained what had happened and they said they would _ i explained what had happened and they said they would see _ i explained what had happened and they said they would see me - i explained what had happened and they said they would see me this . i explained what had happened and l they said they would see me this one occasion _ they said they would see me this one occasion i_ they said they would see me this one occasion iwent— they said they would see me this one occasion. i went to _ they said they would see me this one occasion. i went to see _ they said they would see me this one occasion. i went to see them - they said they would see me this one occasion. i went to see them and - occasion. i went to see them and they— occasion. i went to see them and they said — occasion. i went to see them and they said the _ occasion. i went to see them and they said the tooth _ occasion. i went to see them and they said the tooth has _ occasion. i went to see them and they said the tooth has got - occasion. i went to see them and they said the tooth has got to - occasion. i went to see them and . they said the tooth has got to come out. they said the tooth has got to come out they— they said the tooth has got to come out they said — they said the tooth has got to come out they said get— they said the tooth has got to come out. they said get rid _ they said the tooth has got to come out. they said get rid of— they said the tooth has got to come out. they said get rid of the - out. they said get rid of the infection— out. they said get rid of the infection and _ out. they said get rid of the infection and then - out. they said get rid of the infection and then come - out. they said get rid of the. infection and then come back out. they said get rid of the - infection and then come back and we will remove — infection and then come back and we will remove it — infection and then come back and we will remove it. they— infection and then come back and we will remove it. they said _ infection and then come back and we will remove it. they said they- will remove it. they said they couldn't— will remove it. they said they couldn't put _ will remove it. they said they couldn't put me _ will remove it. they said they couldn't put me on _ will remove it. they said they

couldn't put me on their- will remove it. they said they couldn't put me on their list. will remove it. they said they. couldn't put me on their list but they— couldn't put me on their list but they gave — couldn't put me on their list but they gave me _ couldn't put me on their list but they gave me the _ couldn't put me on their list but they gave me the name - couldn't put me on their list but they gave me the name of- couldn't put me on their list but they gave me the name of a - couldn't put me on their list but- they gave me the name of a dentist who did _ they gave me the name of a dentist who did take — they gave me the name of a dentist who did take me _ they gave me the name of a dentist who did take me on. _ they gave me the name of a dentist who did take me on. tit— they gave me the name of a dentist who did take me on.— they gave me the name of a dentist who did take me on. at last. karen, ou have who did take me on. at last. karen, you have illustrated _ who did take me on. at last. karen, you have illustrated it _ who did take me on. at last. karen, you have illustrated it brilliantly. . you have illustrated it brilliantly. graphically, necessarily. let's move to our next caller. you were pregnant, what happened? i to our next caller. you were pregnant, what happened? i was reanant, pregnant, what happened? i was pregnant. my — pregnant, what happened? i was pregnant. my son _ pregnant, what happened? i was pregnant, my son is _ pregnant, what happened? i was pregnant, my son is now - pregnant, what happened? i was pregnant, my son is now five - pregnant, what happened? i was pregnant, my son is now five months old. pregnant, my son is now five months old when— pregnant, my son is now five months old. when you go to the nhs website, you are _ old. when you go to the nhs website, you are looking at the advice for pregnancy, saying pregnant women are entitled _ pregnancy, saying pregnant women are entitled to _ pregnancy, saying pregnant women are entitled to free dental health care for the _ entitled to free dental health care for the duration of the pregnancy and for— for the duration of the pregnancy and for one year after the birth of your child — and for one year after the birth of your child. but i have not been able to find _ your child. but i have not been able to find a _ your child. but i have not been able to find a single dentist. i live in guiidford _ to find a single dentist. i live in guildford. nowhere will accept me. it guildford. nowhere will accept me. it feels _ guildford. nowhere will accept me. it feels like a bit of a farce. in the lead — it feels like a bit of a farce. in the lead up to the call i messaged round _ the lead up to the call i messaged round my— the lead up to the call i messaged round my mum's friends to see if other— round my mum's friends to see if other people had similar experiences

and very— other people had similar experiences and very few of the ten or so women i and very few of the ten or so women i spoke _ and very few of the ten or so women i spoke to— and very few of the ten or so women i spoke to had been able to access this claim — i spoke to had been able to access this claim that pregnant women get free dental care. maybe one out of the ten _ free dental care. maybe one out of the ten had managed that. also different— the ten had managed that. also different experiences. some women said they— different experiences. some women said they got the free checkup but any subsequent treatment or the hygienist, you had to pay for that in fuii~ _ hygienist, you had to pay for that in fuii~ 0ne — hygienist, you had to pay for that in full. one woman said that her dentist— in full. one woman said that her dentist said they could give a discounted rate if you're pregnant, which _ discounted rate if you're pregnant, which isn't — discounted rate if you're pregnant, which isn't what it says on the nhs website, _ which isn't what it says on the nhs website, which says it is free. i don't _ website, which says it is free. i don't know— website, which says it is free. i don't know if different dentists do different— don't know if different dentists do different things. when i was pregnant, my gums were bleeding and i pregnant, my gums were bleeding and i decided _ pregnant, my gums were bleeding and i decided to pay for it because i think— i decided to pay for it because i think it's — i decided to pay for it because i think it's important. the reason that apparently pregnant women should _ that apparently pregnant women should be entitled to this is that you are — should be entitled to this is that you are at — should be entitled to this is that you are at increased risk of gum disease — you are at increased risk of gum disease during pregnancy so i am not quite sure _

disease during pregnancy so i am not quite sure why we are not prioritised. but everywhere i phoned up prioritised. but everywhere i phoned up said _ prioritised. but everywhere i phoned up said no, — prioritised. but everywhere i phoned up said no, we are not taking on new patients _ up said no, we are not taking on new atients. ., .., up said no, we are not taking on new atients. . .., ., , up said no, we are not taking on new atients. ., ., , , . patients. kate indicated as such earlier, it patients. kate indicated as such earlier. it is _ patients. kate indicated as such earlier, it is so _ patients. kate indicated as such earlier, it is so important - patients. kate indicated as such earlier, it is so important for i earlier, it is so important for general health. and if you are pregnant as well, goodness me. let's give you the government statement one more time. a department of health and social care spokesperson said... "we are working to improve access to nhs dental care by investing more than £3 billion a year. we reformed the nhs dental contract to encourage more dentists to provide nhs treatments and allow dental therapists and hygienists to offer extra services, and increased the amount practices receive for high—need patients. there were over 500 more dentists delivering nhs care in 2022 than in 2021, but we know there is more to do and we will be announcing further measures to improve access across the country soon." some brilliant calls this morning. 50 important and so illustrative of so important and so illustrative of how people are searching in vain very often for some relief for their

pain. now, john in sherborne, hello. are you there? maybe we have lost john. we have charlie in penrith. hello, charlie.— john. we have charlie in penrith. hello, charlie.- tell - john. we have charlie in penrith. hello, charlie.- tell us - john. we have charlie in penrith. l hello, charlie.- tell us about hello, charlie. hello. tell us about our hello, charlie. hello. tell us about your search — hello, charlie. hello. tell us about your search for _ hello, charlie. hello. tell us about your search for the _ hello, charlie. hello. tell us about your search for the holy _ hello, charlie. hello. tell us about your search for the holy grail. - hello, charlie. hello. tell us about your search for the holy grail. i'ml your search for the holy grail. i'm listenin: your search for the holy grail. i'm listening to _ your search for the holy grail. i'm listening to everyone's stories and it puts _ listening to everyone's stories and it puts my— listening to everyone's stories and it puts my experience into perspective, but there are very few nhs dentists in our area. i discovered when i went to book an appointment a couple of months ago that my— appointment a couple of months ago that my private dentist had closed down _ that my private dentist had closed down i_ that my private dentist had closed down. i have now run three or four different— down. i have now run three or four different dentists in the area, even going _ different dentists in the area, even going up— different dentists in the area, even going up to — different dentists in the area, even going up to carlisle, a half hour drive _ going up to carlisle, a half hour drive away, _ going up to carlisle, a half hour drive away, and i can't get a private _ drive away, and i can't get a private dentist waiting list either. a lot _ private dentist waiting list either. a lot of— private dentist waiting list either. a lot of those have closed their books — a lot of those have closed their books to — a lot of those have closed their books to new patients as well so even _ books to new patients as well so even if _ books to new patients as well so even if you — books to new patients as well so even if you can pay for it it's

almost _ even if you can pay for it it's almost as— even if you can pay for it it's almost as difficult to access. what did they say? _ almost as difficult to access. what did they say? they _ almost as difficult to access. what did they say? theyjust _ almost as difficult to access. what did they say? theyjust say - almost as difficult to access. what did they say? they just say they i almost as difficult to access. what l did they say? theyjust say they are did they say? they 'ust say they are not takin: did they say? they 'ust say they are not taking on — did they say? they 'ust say they are not taking on any — did they say? theyjust say they are not taking on any new _ did they say? theyjust say they are not taking on any new patients. - did they say? theyjust say they are not taking on any new patients. sol not taking on any new patients. so you just _ not taking on any new patients. so you just have to keep ringing round and trying — you just have to keep ringing round and trying to find someone until you find someone taking on new patients. eventually. _ find someone taking on new patients. eventually, just no way. i find someone taking on new patients. eventually, just no way.— eventually, 'ust no way. i haven't found eventually, just no way. i haven't found anyone _ eventually, just no way. i haven't found anyone yet. _ eventually, just no way. i haven't found anyone yet. who _ eventually, just no way. i haven't found anyone yet. who is - eventually, just no way. i haven't found anyone yet. who is taking l eventually, just no way. i haven't l found anyone yet. who is taking on new private — found anyone yet. who is taking on new private patients. 30 found anyone yet. who is taking on new private patients.— found anyone yet. who is taking on new private patients. so what do you do? this is the _ new private patients. so what do you do? this is the question. _ new private patients. so what do you do? this is the question. the - new private patients. so what do you do? this is the question. the point i do? this is the question. the point i made do? this is the question. the point i made when _ do? this is the question. the point i made when i _ do? this is the question. the point i made when i texted _ do? this is the question. the point i made when i texted income - do? this is the question. the point i made when i texted income even| do? this is the question. the point. i made when i texted income even if you are _ i made when i texted income even if you are prepared to pay and are able to pay. _ you are prepared to pay and are able to pay, it _ you are prepared to pay and are able to pay. it is — you are prepared to pay and are able to pay, it is still very difficult to pay, it is still very difficult to access _ to pay, it is still very difficult to access dentistry, especially when you live _ to access dentistry, especially when you live in _ to access dentistry, especially when you live in quite a rural area and there _ you live in quite a rural area and there is— you live in quite a rural area and there is limited provision anyway. well. _ there is limited provision anyway. well, let's— there is limited provision anyway. well, let's go to north berwick and

speak to ciara. we have two minutes left and i want to speak to her! hello! hello and good morning. we got to you on but we haven't got long. i'm long in the tooth so i can deal with it. what do you want to say? i deal with it. what do you want to sa ? ., , ., ., say? i wrote in this morning to discuss the _ say? i wrote in this morning to discuss the fact _ say? i wrote in this morning to discuss the fact that _ say? i wrote in this morning to discuss the fact that i - say? i wrote in this morning to discuss the fact that i live - say? i wrote in this morning to discuss the fact that i live with | discuss the fact that i live with progressive multiple sclerosis and in the _ progressive multiple sclerosis and in the area — progressive multiple sclerosis and in the area where i live i am unable to get— in the area where i live i am unable to getany— in the area where i live i am unable to get any nhs dental care. i have had numerous extractions and a free time i_ had numerous extractions and a free time i have _ had numerous extractions and a free time i have an infection due to my suppressed — time i have an infection due to my suppressed immune system because of disease _ suppressed immune system because of disease modifying treatment i have, infusions— disease modifying treatment i have, infusions that suppress my immune system, _ infusions that suppress my immune system, they always say the only

option— system, they always say the only option is— system, they always say the only option is to... system, they always say the only option is to. . ._ option is to... how do you feel about that? — option is to... how do you feel about that? it _ option is to... how do you feel about that? it is _ option is to... how do you feel about that? it is very - option is to... how do you feel about that? it is very difficult. | about that? it is very difficult. it's not about that? it is very difficult. it's not a _ about that? it is very difficult. it's not a cosmetic _ about that? it is very difficult. it's not a cosmetic issue. - about that? it is very difficult. it's not a cosmetic issue. it's. it's not a cosmetic issue. it's actually— it's not a cosmetic issue. it's actually something that is affecting me every— actually something that is affecting me every day. i have issues with swallowing, with ms. i'm now missing a number— swallowing, with ms. i'm now missing a number of— swallowing, with ms. i'm now missing a number of teeth. i can't get an a number of teeth. ican't get an nhs— a number of teeth. i can't get an nhs dentist so i have had to go private~ — nhs dentist so i have had to go rivate. �* ., nhs dentist so i have had to go rivate. 1, , , ., nhs dentist so i have had to go rivate. , , ., private. both sides of the border? we are in scotland, _ private. both sides of the border? we are in scotland, we _ private. both sides of the border? we are in scotland, we are - private. both sides of the border? we are in scotland, we are in - private. both sides of the border? | we are in scotland, we are in north berwick— we are in scotland, we are in north berwick in — we are in scotland, we are in north berwick in scotland. so it is the scottish— berwick in scotland. so it is the scottish nhs. but the private dentist— scottish nhs. but the private dentist has told me that in order to have even— dentist has told me that in order to have even a — dentist has told me that in order to have even a bridge, which would replace — have even a bridge, which would replace a — have even a bridge, which would replace a couple of the teeth, i have _ replace a couple of the teeth, i have ireen— replace a couple of the teeth, i have been given a list of dental work— have been given a list of dental work i — have been given a list of dental work i need to have done first and it equates — work i need to have done first and it equates to £2000. | work i need to have done first and it equates to £2000.— work i need to have done first and it equates to £2000. i hope we talk auain, it equates to £2000. i hope we talk again. chiara- _ it equates to £2000. i hope we talk again, chiara. it _ it equates to £2000. i hope we talk again, chiara. it was _ it equates to £2000. i hope we talk again, chiara. it was good - it equates to £2000. i hope we talk again, chiara. it was good to -

it equates to £2000. i hope we talk again, chiara. it was good to get. again, chiara. it was good to get you one there. progressive ms, lots of issues with your teeth, can't get an appointment and scared of what might happen. thank you for listening. live from london, this is bbc news. it's expected to be confirmed shortly thatjoe biden will stand for a second term as us president. at the age of 80, mr biden is already the oldest us president in history — and would be 86 by the end of a second term. confirmation of his latest run for the white house could set president biden up for a potential rematch against donald trump. hello, welcome to bbc news. joe biden has confirmed in the last minute that he will run for election

as president in 202a. his campaign