took some part in facilitating a large loan, 800 thousand pounds to borisjohnson when he was prime minister to a distant cousin of mr johnson. there was the allegation he should have been more open about that before getting the job of chairman. he is chairman now, will he be later? you will hear the answer here. first, the cost of concussion. new guidance out today for grassroots sports clubs. a massive issue, huge problem. the new mantra, if in doubt, sit it out. anyone with suspected concussion must be immediately removed from football, rugby, netball, hockey and othersports football, rugby, netball, hockey and other sports and rest for 2h hours. call nhs iii, other sports and rest for 2h hours. call nhs ill, make sure they don't return to competitive sport for at least 21 days. the guidance is based on official recommendations already in place in the land of my birth, scotland, who are ahead of the game.

it's a big problem. this morning the cost of concussion, your stories. maybe you are a parent or a competitor, a coach or a doctor. if in doubt, sit it out. if you have experience, call in. we will be discussing that in the first hour. look forward to talking. and the news now with dan brennan. inspectors say the met police still failing to investigate deaths properly years after serious flaws were exposed in the case of serial killer stephen port, who is serving a whole life term for the murders of four men in 2014 and 2015 will stop its majesty�*s inspector of constabulary looked at lack of

training, inadequate intelligence procedures and unacceptable record keeping. the met accepts the force needs to do more. the foreign secretary james cleverly is urging all uk nationals wanting to escape fighting in sudan to come forward as quickly as quickly as possible. the ceasefire there has been extended another three days. so far nearly 900 british nationals and residents have been flown to safety by the raf. ukrainian officials say at least 12 people have been killed in a wave of russian missile air strikes across the country will stop no casualties in the capital kyiv, which has come under attack for the first time in more than 50 days will stop the first time in more than 50 days for soppy report which is likely to determine whether chairman of the bbc richard sharp stays in hisjob is going to be published today because said mr sharp facilitated a loan guarantee for borisjohnson just weeks facilitated a loan guarantee for boris johnson just weeks before the then prime borisjohnson just weeks before the then prime minster recommended him for the bbcjob. richard sharp insists he was appointed on merit.

the cost of concussion. we are talking about grassroots sports and talking about grassroots sports and talking about grassroots sports and talking about your experiences, whether you are a player, coach, participant, a parent, medic. your experience of concussion. it's worth reminding you that almost 400 former rugby players are currently taking legal action claiming they suffered brain injuries while playing the game. some of those guys have got dementia as well and can't even remember some of the games they played in. professional sport has already changed its rules. it is now grassroots sport following suit. that's what we are talking about, the cost of concussion. 08085 909693, and text on 85058 and get in touch via social media. doctor michael gray, neuroscientist and part of the uk acquired brain injury

forum. good morning and how are you? and monaco, a retired team gb ice hockey athlete. you are keen, properly zealous advocate for raising concussion awareness. why do you feel so passionate about it? i just think awareness overall needs to be raised. my career ended early and i don't want that to happen to anyone else. i think the biggest thing that needs to happen is we need to talk about it more. the first thing you can do is educate people and that comes from raising awareness. ~ . ., , , ., people and that comes from raising awareness. ~ . ., ,, ., people and that comes from raising | awareness-_ in awareness. what happen to you? in 2014, i was — awareness. what happen to you? in 2014, i was playing _ awareness. what happen to you? in 2014, i was playing in _ awareness. what happen to you? in 2014, i was playing in ice _ awareness. what happen to you? in 2014, i was playing in ice hockey . 2014, i was playing in ice hockey game, just amateur league level, i took a hit to the head, hit my head on the back of the ice. i had protective equipment on and everything but i knew it was a bad hit. i guess it wasn't anything more severe than another hit i'd had in

the past. i didn't play the rest of that game. i didn't feel great. i went to bed that evening but i had a game the next day and was encouraged to play, which i did, playing about ten minutes of the game. ten minutes in i looked at the ice i couldn't see anything properly, it was very blurry and i fell down to the ice. i was told to go straight to a&e. i had a concussion injury and was told not to play sport until i felt better. but that was the totality of the guidance i was given. 0bviously all those years back, i was in my 20s and ijust all those years back, i was in my 20s and i just wanted all those years back, i was in my 20s and ijust wanted to get back on the ice. {iii 20s and i 'ust wanted to get back on the ice. . ., , 20s and i 'ust wanted to get back on the ice. _, , i. 20s and i 'ust wanted to get back on theice. , ., �*, the ice. of course you did. that's the ice. of course you did. that's the kind of— the ice. of course you did. that's the kind of injury _ the ice. of course you did. that's the kind of injury that _ the ice. of course you did. that's the kind of injury that can - the ice. of course you did. that's| the kind of injury that can happen to anyone. i see day, slipping, banging the back of your head. lots of people listening will think, goodness me, that can happen to me. and it happened to you in a

competitive sport context. let's speak to peter robinson's. hello. it's brilliant _ speak to peter robinson's. hello. it's brilliant what _ speak to peter robinson's. hello. it's brilliant what you're _ speak to peter robinson's. hello. it's brilliant what you're doing, i it's brilliant what you're doing, you have made it such a mission. i know through it you will help so many people and raise awareness, which is going to save so many people from this awful debilitating brain injury. it's all about your son ben who died in 2011 after a head injury playing rugby. his death actually change things. i am so sorry for your loss. it was out of the blue. �* sorry for your loss. it was out of the blue-— sorry for your loss. it was out of the blue. �* . , . ., ., , the blue. ben was a fit and healthy 14-year-old- _ the blue. ben was a fit and healthy 14-year-old- he — the blue. ben was a fit and healthy 14-year-old. he was _ the blue. ben was a fit and healthy 14-year-old. he was playing - the blue. ben was a fit and healthy 14-year-old. he was playing rugby| 14—year—old. he was playing rugby and unfortunately for us the awareness and education around a brain_ awareness and education around a brain injury— awareness and education around a brain injury that day, he had three incidents— brain injury that day, he had three incidents where the pathologist say he got _ incidents where the pathologist say he got a _

incidents where the pathologist say he got a brain injury on the same day~ _ he got a brain injury on the same day. unfortunately for us it was mismanaged and he wasn't removed from the _ mismanaged and he wasn't removed from the pitch. unfortunately for us that was_ from the pitch. unfortunately for us that was his last game of rugby. a little that was his last game of rugby. little bit more about that. it was a second impact syndrome. you could write a thesis on this, i know, couldn't you, peter. what exactly is that and how does it occur? i suppose the experts will tell you, the brain, — suppose the experts will tell you, the brain, when it has been injured, it changes _ the brain, when it has been injured, it changes and becomes very vulnerable. if you receive a second injury— vulnerable. if you receive a second injury or— vulnerable. if you receive a second injury or evenjust running about, and the _ injury or evenjust running about, and the brain doesn't have time to rest, _ and the brain doesn't have time to rest, its— and the brain doesn't have time to rest, it's called second impact syndrome. actually when you think about _ syndrome. actually when you think about ben — syndrome. actually when you think about ben he had four injuries on the same — about ben he had four injuries on the same day. the second impact will not happen— the same day. the second impact will not happen if you remove the athlete

after the _ not happen if you remove the athlete after the first injury. i think for us we — after the first injury. i think for us we realised ben's death was so preventable with education and awareness and a change in culture around _ awareness and a change in culture around brain injuries in sport. if he around brain injuries in sport. he had been around brain injuries in sport. if he had been removed after the first injury, which kind of... you don't have to have a huge amount of medical knowledge to think that it's logical, isn't it, peter?— logical, isn't it, peter? yeah. that's the — logical, isn't it, peter? yeah. that's the really _ logical, isn't it, peter? yeah. that's the really sad - logical, isn't it, peter? yeah. that's the really sad thing. i logical, isn't it, peter? yeah. l that's the really sad thing. you don't _ that's the really sad thing. you don't have _ that's the really sad thing. you don't have to be a neurologist. that's— don't have to be a neurologist. that's why— don't have to be a neurologist. that's why the message is very simple — that's why the message is very simple if— that's why the message is very simple. if you have to ask the question. _ simple. if you have to ask the question, we talk about if you ask a drunk— question, we talk about if you ask a drunk driver— question, we talk about if you ask a drunk driver if they are ok to drive, — drunk driver if they are ok to drive, of— drunk driver if they are ok to drive, of course they will say yes. all kids _ drive, of course they will say yes. all kids want to play on so as adults— all kids want to play on so as adults we _ all kids want to play on so as adults we want to protect them and we have _ adults we want to protect them and we have to — adults we want to protect them and we have to take that choice out of their— we have to take that choice out of their hands— we have to take that choice out of their hands and remove them if there is any— their hands and remove them if there is any doubt — their hands and remove them if there is any doubt at all that they have a suspected — is any doubt at all that they have a suspected brain injury.—

suspected brain in'ury. apart from the tragedy _ suspected brain in'ury. apart from the tragedy and_ suspected brain injury. apart from the tragedy and the _ suspected brain injury. apart from the tragedy and the shock- suspected brain injury. apart from the tragedy and the shock of - suspected brain injury. apart from the tragedy and the shock of it - suspected brain injury. apart from the tragedy and the shock of it all| the tragedy and the shock of it all for you as a family you must have been incredulous. a fine and fit young men, fantastic rugby player, and that happened. your whole world has changed because of that irrevocably. you must have thought, what on earth is going on, how can this be. . ~ , what on earth is going on, how can this be. . . , ., this be. yeah. when i first got the news ben this be. yeah. when i first got the news then had _ this be. yeah. when i first got the news ben had been _ this be. yeah. when i first got the news ben had been knocked - this be. yeah. when i first got the news ben had been knocked out, | news ben had been knocked out, having _ news ben had been knocked out, having played rugby i thought, 0k, he'll having played rugby i thought, 0k, he'tt come — having played rugby i thought, 0k, he'll come round. it's not until you talk to— he'll come round. it's not until you talk to the — he'll come round. it's not until you talk to the likes of professor willie — talk to the likes of professor willie stuart and you realise... there — willie stuart and you realise... there is— willie stuart and you realise... there is risk in everything we do in life and _ there is risk in everything we do in life and it's — there is risk in everything we do in life and it's mitigating against it. what _ life and it's mitigating against it. what happened then, if it has happened once, it will happen again. with knowledge and awareness we can prevent _ with knowledge and awareness we can prevent these fatalities happening.

siobhan _ prevent these fatalities happening. siobhan cattigan, her death was the result— siobhan cattigan, her death was the result of— siobhan cattigan, her death was the result of a _ siobhan cattigan, her death was the result of a head injury. just with more _ result of a head injury. just with more knowledge and how to manage them and _ more knowledge and how to manage them and when to come back and when not to— them and when to come back and when not to come _ them and when to come back and when not to come back from of these preventable deaths can be prevented. it's preventable deaths can be prevented. it's all— preventable deaths can be prevented. it's all in _ preventable deaths can be prevented. it's all in ben's memory, what you are doing, which is absolutely amazing. jess in huddersfield has got in touch. doctor michael gray will be fascinating to hear your thoughts and just a second. rugby coach, what you think about the new guidance? high time? high coach, what you think about the new guidance? high time?— guidance? high time? high time indeed. guidance? high time? high time indeed- the _ guidance? high time? high time indeed. the more _ guidance? high time? high time indeed. the more education - indeed. the more education awareness, guidance and ultimately support we can give to volunteers working in grassroots sport, all sports, rugby, hockey, football, all the better because we have a duty of care towards players. we love our players and our sport and we want our athletes and players to have lifelong enjoyment and participation

in sport so the more safeguarding protection and awareness and support we can put in to enable them to enjoy the sport and stay in it, the better. this enjoy the sport and stay in it, the better. �* , . enjoy the sport and stay in it, the better. . , . _ enjoy the sport and stay in it, the better. a . _ enjoy the sport and stay in it, the better. . , . _ ., enjoy the sport and stay in it, the better. a . _ ., better. as a rugby coach, have you seen it and — better. as a rugby coach, have you seen it and how _ better. as a rugby coach, have you seen it and how have _ better. as a rugby coach, have you seen it and how have you - better. as a rugby coach, have you seen it and how have you had - better. as a rugby coach, have you seen it and how have you had to i better. as a rugby coach, have you l seen it and how have you had to deal with it, facilitate and that kind of support and what knowledge did you have? i support and what knowledge did you have? . , ., ., have? i have been fortunate with ru:b in have? i have been fortunate with rugby in that _ have? i have been fortunate with rugby in that we _ have? i have been fortunate with rugby in that we have _ have? i have been fortunate with rugby in that we have had - have? i have been fortunate with rugby in that we have had a - have? i have been fortunate with i rugby in that we have had a couple of concussion protocols for a while and guidance for grassroots rugby. we had the message clearly typed to us for a while, if in doubt sit them out. that meant when i spotted a head knock, a concussion, potential impact where something, maybe a whiplash has occurred in a player, i have spotted it, remove them, sat them down and had a conversation. it's a good conversation to have because players want to enjoy the sport and get back in the game. we have a duty of care to players and that sometimes means being concerned and telling them you have to sit

out. reduce your screen time and your physical activity. check in with a doctor. we will see how you are and when you're ready it'll be a graduated return to play. we will take things slowly but this is for your benefit because you only have one brain. . ,. one brain. reducing screen time, that's interesting. _ one brain. reducing screen time, that's interesting. you _ one brain. reducing screen time, that's interesting. you know- one brain. reducing screen time, that's interesting. you know yourj that's interesting. you know your stuff. maybe explain why people should off their devices. mr; should off their devices. ij�*i knowledge should off their devices. ii knowledge is wide should off their devices. ii1 knowledge is wide but fairly limited. players can often, and it's not the case all the time because concussion can present differently, but players will often have headaches, their optics might hurt. we want to reduce the strain on their eyes as much as possible so reducing screen time can help them, maybe not ease the symptoms but help them to settle in and help the brain recover a little bit quicker.- recover a little bit quicker. doctor michael gray- _ recover a little bit quicker. doctor michael gray. what _ recover a little bit quicker. doctor michael gray. what you _ recover a little bit quicker. doctor michael gray. what you think - recover a little bit quicker. doctor i michael gray. what you think about the new guidelines? thea;r michael gray. what you think about the new guidelines?— the new guidelines? they are long overdue and _

the new guidelines? they are long overdue and very _ the new guidelines? they are long overdue and very welcome. - the new guidelines? they are long overdue and very welcome. as - the new guidelines? they are long| overdue and very welcome. as you rightly— overdue and very welcome. as you rightly said — overdue and very welcome. as you rightly said at the top of the programme we are following scotland, we are _ programme we are following scotland, we are also _ programme we are following scotland, we are also following canada and australia — we are also following canada and australia. they have had national guidelines— australia. they have had national guidelines for some time. we are heading _ guidelines for some time. we are heading to— guidelines for some time. we are heading to the united states so that's— heading to the united states so that's perhaps a good thing. long overdue — that's perhaps a good thing. long overdue it— that's perhaps a good thing. long overdue. it used to be that the sporting — overdue. it used to be that the sporting authorities were the ones responsible for their own guidelines across— responsible for their own guidelines across sport but as i think nicky saidi _ across sport but as i think nicky said. it's — across sport but as i think nicky said, it's one brain and it's not different— said, it's one brain and it's not different across sports. we need to have underlying principles that all sports _ have underlying principles that all sports follow. by having these guidelines we now have those recovery— guidelines we now have those recovery principles. gne guidelines we now have those recovery principles. one in'ury, can that lead recovery principles. one in'ury, can that teat to — recovery principles. one in'ury, can that teat to a h recovery principles. one in'ury, can that lead to a lifetime... _ recovery principles. one injury, can that lead to a lifetime... one - that lead to a lifetime... 0ne injury in a sporting context, can it lead to effects over your life?

brain injury and concussion is a brain— brain injury and concussion is a brain injury. _ brain injury and concussion is a brain injury, it's a spectrum. concussion _ brain injury, it's a spectrum. concussion would be more on the... we call— concussion would be more on the... we call it— concussion would be more on the... we call it the — concussion would be more on the... we call it the mild, it's a traumatic brain injury. concussion would _ traumatic brain injury. concussion would be — traumatic brain injury. concussion would be part of the group of mild brain— would be part of the group of mild brain injuries. 0ne concussion, one mild _ brain injuries. 0ne concussion, one mild traumatic brain injury, will not lead — mild traumatic brain injury, will not lead necessarily to lifelong injuries — not lead necessarily to lifelong injuries. if it's a little bit worse than _ injuries. if it's a little bit worse than mild — injuries. if it's a little bit worse than mild then yes. if it's not treated — than mild then yes. if it's not treated properly, and i think this is really— treated properly, and i think this is really important, a mild traumatic brain injury, if not treated _ traumatic brain injury, if not treated properly, will then be become — treated properly, will then be become something we call post concussion syndrome. he people can have this _ concussion syndrome. he people can have this for — concussion syndrome. he people can have this for months if not years. what _ have this for months if not years. what happens is the concussion hasn't _ what happens is the concussion hasn't been managed properly in most cases _

hasn't been managed properly in most cases. ., ., , ., , , cases. how does it manifest itself? essentially a _ cases. how does it manifest itself? essentially a concussion _ cases. how does it manifest itself? essentially a concussion by - essentially a concussion by definition is a transient or temporary loss of brain function so there _ temporary loss of brain function so there isn't— temporary loss of brain function so there isn't really structural trends but there — there isn't really structural trends but there are metabolic changes. if we don't _ but there are metabolic changes. if we don't deal with those metabolic changes, _ we don't deal with those metabolic changes, the brain becomes more susceptible to injury. any increase in higher— susceptible to injury. any increase in higher levels of activity really exasperate the injury. if you don't treat— exasperate the injury. if you don't treat it _ exasperate the injury. if you don't treat it early enough and properly, with proper cognitive and physical resti _ with proper cognitive and physical rest, then— with proper cognitive and physical rest, then we are not allowing the brain— rest, then we are not allowing the brain to _ rest, then we are not allowing the brain to recover fully. | rest, then we are not allowing the brain to recover fully.— brain to recover fully. i had it, and i brain to recover fully. i had it, and i lived _ brain to recover fully. i had it, and i lived in _ brain to recover fully. i had it, and i lived in a _ brain to recover fully. i had it, and i lived in a flat _ brain to recover fully. i had it, and i lived in a flat by - brain to recover fully. i had it, and i lived in a flat by the - brain to recover fully. i had it, i and i lived in a flat by the docks in aberdeen when i was a student next to the brewery. the lorry was

parked close to the flat door and i didn't know what they were doing. i walked out and a beer barrel fell on my head and there is still a lump on my head and there is still a lump on my head and there is still a lump on my head now. i had dizzy spells for six months during my third year exams. i was walking on the street and it was like i was drunk and i was really dizzy. is that the sort of thing you're talking about? absolutely, i had something very similar~ — absolutely, i had something very similar. it's notjust sport. it was a work— similar. it's notjust sport. it was a work related incident, that's an issue _ a work related incident, that's an issue tooi — a work related incident, that's an issue too, and this will become an area we _ issue too, and this will become an area we need to talk about more. i was cycling — area we need to talk about more. i was cycling to work, fell on the bike _ was cycling to work, fell on the bike, fortunately i was wearing a helmet — bike, fortunately i was wearing a helmet. despite the research i work in and _ helmet. despite the research i work in and the _ helmet. despite the research i work in and the areal helmet. despite the research i work in and the area i went back to work because _ in and the area i went back to work because we — in and the area i went back to work because we have exams to mark. i worked _ because we have exams to mark. i worked for— because we have exams to mark. i worked for three days and then could no longer— worked for three days and then could no longer do it. i was then out for three _ no longer do it. i was then out for three months because i didn't treat it properly— three months because i didn't treat it properly in the first instance. they— it properly in the first instance. they were _ it properly in the first instance. they were just chucking beer barrels off the lorry and i got up and

carried on but these days i think you would be on to a lawyer. chris in rugby has got in touch, and emma in rugby has got in touch, and emma in tiverton. that's excellent. you can as well to talk about your experience of concussion. chris has had it from playing rugby, i read. what was the situation?- what was the situation? hello. i have been _ what was the situation? hello. i have been hospitalised - what was the situation? hello. i have been hospitalised twice - what was the situation? hello. i l have been hospitalised twice with concussion, along with many other instances where you knock your head and you wake up on the field and play has moved on 20 yards and you just get up and get back in. i had two quite serious concussions. 0ne two quite serious concussions. one was a head on the head collision. i went to hospital. the second one was what you were talking about earlier in terms of the second concussion

syndrome. i had a head knock the week before. i was just warming up for the game the next week and just very lightly hit a tackle bag, which for those who know it's a soft and squishy thing, it's not hard. and within five minutes i couldn't walk, was throwing up. my balance was completely off. i had to get myself in an ambulance and get to hospital. get yourself in an ambulance? sorry, no, the get yourself in an ambulance? sorry, no. the physio _ get yourself in an ambulance? sorry, no, the physio sorted _ get yourself in an ambulance? sorry, no, the physio sorted that _ get yourself in an ambulance? sorry, no, the physio sorted that out - get yourself in an ambulance? sorry, no, the physio sorted that out for- no, the physio sorted that out for me. i didn't have to do that myself! but i had to get in an ambulance and get to hospital. we were worried i had a bleed on the brain at that point. thankfully i didn't. but in terms of lifelong impacts, certainly

my wife has said my personality has changed after those incidents. i am much quicker to anger and frustration than i used to be. and i've had mental health issues that may not be solely, and i don't think they are solely a part of the concussions, but i think the concussions, but i think the concussions have certainly exacerbated them. it's difficult, a difficult thing. when you are reading about guys like steve thompson, alix popham, when they have early onset dementia, cte, it's always a worry in the back of your mind what's happening to me could

lead to what these guys are going through right now. find lead to what these guys are going through right now.— lead to what these guys are going through right now. and the person ou love through right now. and the person you love and _ through right now. and the person you love and who _ through right now. and the person you love and who loves _ through right now. and the person you love and who loves you, - through right now. and the person you love and who loves you, they. you love and who loves you, they notice it, don't they?— notice it, don't they? hugely, absolutely- — notice it, don't they? hugely, absolutely. my _ notice it, don't they? hugely, absolutely. my wife, - notice it, don't they? hugely, absolutely. my wife, who - notice it, don't they? hugely, absolutely. my wife, who you| notice it, don't they? hugely, - absolutely. my wife, who you have spoken to a few times, i have to say, she is a regular caller. excellent.— say, she is a regular caller. excellent. she has certainly noticed. we _ excellent. she has certainly noticed. we met _ excellent. she has certainly noticed. we met were - excellent. she has certainly noticed. we met were to i excellent. she has certainly i noticed. we met were to when i excellent. she has certainly - noticed. we met were to when i was 20, fun loving, loving life and that kind of thing. as i have got older that has been sapped away. i don't think it's 100% that has been sapped away. i don't think it's100% because of the concussions but i think they have certainly helped exacerbate it. hagar certainly helped exacerbate it. how lont ato certainly helped exacerbate it. how long ago did _ certainly helped exacerbate it. how long ago did it _ certainly helped exacerbate it. how long ago did it happen? there i certainly helped exacerbate it. how long ago did it happen? there are i long ago did it happen? there are different elements _ long ago did it happen? there are different elements of _ long ago did it happen? there are different elements of my - long ago did it happen? there are different elements of my career. l long ago did it happen? there are i different elements of my career. the first one when i was hospitalised, i

was 21. and the last one was probably when i was about 32, 33, something like that. so they were across a span of playing rugby. i don't play rugby any more. partly that's life, but partly is the worry i have in the back of my head that one more head knock could be... could have further effects. ii'idta�*e one more head knock could be... could have further effects. have you noticed any — could have further effects. have you noticed any frustrations _ could have further effects. have you noticed any frustrations yourself i noticed any frustrations yourself about doing a crossword or picking up about doing a crossword or picking up on stuff or thinking of words? yeah, yeah, my concentration span is less than it was and my memory is nowhere near as good as it used to be. what i can concentrate on in

terms of i used to be able to read an article... terms of i used to be able to read an article- - -_ an article... inaudible it's an article... inaudible it's less _ an article... inaudible it's less and _ an article... inaudible it's less and less. i- an article... inaudible| it's less and less. i used an article... inaudible - it's less and less. i used to quite happily sit and watch lectures on youtube for three or four hours at a time but now i get antsy after 45 minutes so i have to break up my concentration and break up the time or move to shorter videos so you are only one elite might concentrating only one elite might concentrating on one thing for a shorter amount of time. absolutely. i have noticed that. and particularly my memory, it is nowhere near as sharp as it used to be. i used to be able to recall numbers in particular at the drop of a hat and now i struggle. and i do

think that's probably down to having a head knock. however, as i said in the message i sent in, i am incredibly pleased to see these guidelines, in full grassroots sport. it's notjust the elite level where it's an issue. it's an issue for everyone playing the game. what for everyone playing the game. what level were you _ for everyone playing the game. what level were you playing at? very, i levelwere you playing at? very, very amateur— levelwere you playing at? very, very amateur rugby _ levelwere you playing at? very, very amateur rugby for- levelwere you playing at? very, very amateur rugby for sub i very amateur rugby for sub grassroots level. i paid for my school old boys team. we were amateur, about level seven in the pyramid. it's entirely social. but you see it, it's notjust me. i've had two other guys in my team who have had to take extended periods of

time off for 21 days because they have had recurring symptoms because of concussion. you are seeing it more and more now. latte of concussion. you are seeing it more and more now.— of concussion. you are seeing it more and more now. we have michael, our neuroscientist. _ more and more now. we have michael, our neuroscientist. what _ more and more now. we have michael, our neuroscientist. what do _ more and more now. we have michael, our neuroscientist. what do you - our neuroscientist. what do you think listening to chris. speak to chris about this.— chris about this. chris, first and foremost. _ chris about this. chris, first and foremost, make _ chris about this. chris, first and foremost, make sure _ chris about this. chris, first and foremost, make sure you i chris about this. chris, first and foremost, make sure you are i chris about this. chris, first and i foremost, make sure you are talking to your _ foremost, make sure you are talking to your gp_ foremost, make sure you are talking to your gp about this. i think that's— to your gp about this. i think that's really important that your gp is aware _ that's really important that your gp is aware. there are assessments your gp can _ is aware. there are assessments your gp can do _ is aware. there are assessments your gp can do. this is definitely something we want to monitor. i want to put— something we want to monitor. i want to put a _ something we want to monitor. i want to put a plug — something we want to monitor. i want to put a plug in for a research study— to put a plug in for a research study we _ to put a plug in for a research study we are doing that you could ioini _ study we are doing that you could join, chris — study we are doing that you could join, chris. i'm running a project called _ join, chris. i'm running a project called the — join, chris. i'm running a project called the scores project. you might have heard — called the scores project. you might have heard of it before. we talked about _ have heard of it before. we talked about it _ have heard of it before. we talked about it in — have heard of it before. we talked about it in the context of association football but the study is open _ association football but the study is open to — association football but the study

is open to everybody. if you go to the website, scoresproject.org, we can monitor— the website, scoresproject.org, we can monitor your brain. you do online — can monitor your brain. you do online assessments at home every three _ online assessments at home every three months. after a year of being in the _ three months. after a year of being in the study— three months. after a year of being in the study when we have sufficient data we _ in the study when we have sufficient data we will start to give you feedback about how your brain is progressing. the idea is that we will monitor for at least ten years and as— will monitor for at least ten years and as people's brains change we can show— and as people's brains change we can show you _ and as people's brains change we can show you i_ and as people's brains change we can show you. i would suggest those two things _ show you. i would suggest those two things. one, get to your gp and make sure things. 0ne, get to your gp and make sure your— things. one, get to your gp and make sure yourgp— things. one, get to your gp and make sure yourgp is things. one, get to your gp and make sure your gp is aware of all of this — sure your gp is aware of all of this that's— sure your gp is aware of all of this. that's really important. if you are — this. that's really important. if you are interested in monitoring your— you are interested in monitoring your brain — you are interested in monitoring your brain you are more than welcome to participate in our project. thank to participate in our pro'ect. thank ou ve to participate in our pro'ect. thank you very much. h to participate in our pro'ect. thank you very much. thanki to participate in our project. thank you very much. thank you - to participate in our project. thank you very much. thank you so i to participate in our project. thank. you very much. thank you so much, chris. you very much. thank you so much, chris- that's — you very much. thank you so much, chris. that's good _ you very much. thank you so much, chris. that's good advice. _ you very much. thank you so much, chris. that's good advice. it's i you very much. thank you so much,

chris. that's good advice. it's been | chris. that's good advice. it's been amazing that you have called to talk us through that because it's right on the money as to what we are talking about. emma in tiverton, good morning. talking about. emma in tiverton, good morning-— talking about. emma in tiverton, i good morning._ and we good morning. good morning. and we can hear from — good morning. good morning. and we can hear from norman, _ good morning. good morning. and we can hear from norman, who _ good morning. good morning. and we can hear from norman, who has- good morning. good morning. and we can hear from norman, who has time| can hearfrom norman, who has time pressures. thank you, norman. am i right in saying you are a medic? yes, i'm a doctor. i am a consultant in wigan _ yes, i'm a doctor. i am a consultant in wigan and — yes, i'm a doctor. i am a consultant in wigan and leigh and i am a medical— in wigan and leigh and i am a medical officer with the british boxing — medical officer with the british boxing would and work at silverstone as well _ boxing would and work at silverstone as well i_ boxing would and work at silverstone as well. i also work at east anglian air ambulance as well. i also work at east anglian airambulance as as well. i also work at east anglian air ambulance as well. i have covered — air ambulance as well. i have covered boxing for a number of years. — covered boxing for a number of years, both professional and amateur _ years, both professional and amateur. i covered the commonwealth games— amateur. i covered the commonwealth games boxing section for that. when i games boxing section for that. when i heard _ games boxing section for that. when lheard this, — games boxing section for that. when i heard this, it was obviously of interest— i heard this, it was obviously of interest for me. the i heard this, it was obviously of interest for me.— interest for me. the bma are anti-boxing _ interest for me. the bma are anti-boxing of _ interest for me. the bma are anti-boxing of course. - interest for me. the bma are

anti-boxing of course. do i interest for me. the bma are | anti-boxing of course. do you interest for me. the bma are i anti-boxing of course. do you take anti—boxing of course. do you take their point? i anti-boxing of course. do you take their point?— anti-boxing of course. do you take their oint? , i, their point? i can understand where their point? i can understand where the are their point? i can understand where they are coming _ their point? i can understand where they are coming from. _ their point? i can understand where they are coming from. but - their point? i can understand where they are coming from. but i - their point? i can understand where they are coming from. but i also . their point? i can understand where| they are coming from. but i also see they are coming from. but i also see the positive — they are coming from. but i also see the positive sides to boxing. with the positive sides to boxing. with the kids_ the positive sides to boxing. with the kids and youth. to the positive sides to boxing. with the kids and youth.— the kids and youth. to the discipline. _ the kids and youth. to the discipline, yeah. - the kids and youth. to the l discipline, yeah. discipline, the kids and youth. to the - discipline, yeah. discipline, and education- _ discipline, yeah. discipline, and education. there _ discipline, yeah. discipline, and education. there is _ discipline, yeah. discipline, and education. there is this - discipline, yeah. discipline, and education. there is this myth i discipline, yeah. discipline, and - education. there is this myth about hashing _ education. there is this myth about bashing people's brains out. i have been _ bashing people's brains out. i have been around boxing as a medic since 2015 and _ been around boxing as a medic since 2015 and honestly, some of the most brightest _ 2015 and honestly, some of the most brightest professionals, ultimate athletes, that i am so privileged to work with — athletes, that i am so privileged to work with i— athletes, that i am so privileged to work with. i think it's people who don't _ work with. i think it's people who don't really— work with. i think it's people who don't really know the sport who think— don't really know the sport who think it's — don't really know the sport who think it'sjust about brain bashing, when _ think it'sjust about brain bashing, when it— think it'sjust about brain bashing, when it isn't. it literally is chess _ when it isn't. it literally is chess. there is a game of chess you play with _ chess. there is a game of chess you play with boxing. it is elevated. from _ play with boxing. it is elevated. from my— play with boxing. it is elevated. from my perspective, i think from

any british— from my perspective, i think from any british boxing sanctioned event, there _ any british boxing sanctioned event, there are _ any british boxing sanctioned event, there are strict controls about who can fight _ there are strict controls about who can fight and not fight. and concussion is taken seriously. pre-and — concussion is taken seriously. pre—and post about. i have been at events— pre—and post about. i have been at events where the referee has stopped the fight _ events where the referee has stopped the fight. you go straight in and assess— the fight. you go straight in and assess the — the fight. you go straight in and assess the athlete, you do regular medical_ assess the athlete, you do regular medical checks on them. they are not allowed _ medical checks on them. they are not allowed out _ medical checks on them. they are not allowed out away from the event until we — allowed out away from the event until we are happy that we sign them off. until we are happy that we sign them off we _ until we are happy that we sign them off. we give them good instructions on what _ off. we give them good instructions on what to— off. we give them good instructions on what to watch out for. if we feel there _ on what to watch out for. if we feel there has— on what to watch out for. if we feel there has been a hard hit, and the athlete _ there has been a hard hit, and the athlete might have won the event but if they— athlete might have won the event but if they feel _ athlete might have won the event but if they feel there has been a really hard contest we will give them a 28 day suspension straight off and sign them _ day suspension straight off and sign them off— day suspension straight off and sign them off for a 28 day suspension. we have to _ them off for a 28 day suspension. we have to look— them off for a 28 day suspension. we have to look out for them and take their— have to look out for them and take their health very seriously. the events —

their health very seriously. the events where i do question are the white _ events where i do question are the white collar events and unsanctioned events _ white collar events and unsanctioned events. . , white collar events and unsanctioned events-— i'm - white collar events and unsanctioned events.— i'm sure l events. yeah, interesting. i'm sure ou have events. yeah, interesting. i'm sure you have seen _ events. yeah, interesting. i'm sure you have seen them. _ events. yeah, interesting. i'm sure you have seen them. i— events. yeah, interesting. i'm sure you have seen them. i know - events. yeah, interesting. i'm sure| you have seen them. i know people who have done _ you have seen them. i know people who have done it. _ you have seen them. i know people who have done it. a _ you have seen them. i know people who have done it. a few _ you have seen them. i know people who have done it. a few deaths - you have seen them. i know people| who have done it. a few deaths have occurred recently. _ who have done it. a few deaths have occurred recently. medical— who have done it. a few deaths have occurred recently. medical attention | occurred recently. medical attention has been _ occurred recently. medical attention has been sought at the events but the medical cover at these things is so poor~ _ the medical cover at these things is so poor~ i_ the medical cover at these things is so poor. ijust think that is something that we really need to look at — the other thing is, you look at the journeymen, i am sure they would kick me, it is their livelihood as well. ., ., , well. you need to be careful with those guys _ well. you need to be careful with those guys come _ well. you need to be careful with those guys come off— well. you need to be careful with those guys come off or _ well. you need to be careful with those guys come off or messed l well. you need to be careful with l those guys come off or messed up well. you need to be careful with - those guys come off or messed up in the ring _ those guys come off or messed up in the ring you — those guys come off or messed up in the ring you need to make sure they are adequately advised and educator, the sister— are adequately advised and educator, the sister health but at the end of the sister health but at the end of the day— the sister health but at the end of the day it— the sister health but at the end of the day it is not about knocking someone — the day it is not about knocking someone out, it is having a matched

competition— someone out, it is having a matched competition between trained outlets. and being _ competition between trained outlets. and being able to produce the goods. and being able to produce the goods. and obviously one person is left standing — and obviously one person is left standing. and that is it. those big massive _ standing. and that is it. those big massive knockout things that you see, a _ massive knockout things that you see, a total mismatch and i guess those _ see, a total mismatch and i guess those are — see, a total mismatch and i guess those are the things we must try and avoid _ those are the things we must try and avoid. . those are the things we must try and avoid. , , . , ., those are the things we must try and avoid. , , . , . . , avoid. there is the phrase that has been used to _ avoid. there is the phrase that has been used to time _ avoid. there is the phrase that has been used to time immemorial- avoid. there is the phrase that has i been used to time immemorial punch drunk which means brain damage, doesn't it? the head protection does nothing to protect, does it? that doesn't it? the head protection does nothing to protect, does it?- nothing to protect, does it? that is an interesting... _ nothing to protect, does it? that is an interesting... i— nothing to protect, does it? that is an interesting... i do _ nothing to protect, does it? that is an interesting... i do not _ nothing to protect, does it? that is an interesting... i do not know- nothing to protect, does it? that is an interesting... i do not know if. an interesting... i do not know if you watch— an interesting... i do not know if you watch the commonwealth games but the men _ you watch the commonwealth games but the men did _ you watch the commonwealth games but the men did not have to wear head guards _ the men did not have to wear head guards but — the men did not have to wear head guards but the women did. there is evidence _ guards but the women did. there is evidence they had god because it doesn't _ evidence they had god because it doesn't add any because of what it happens _ doesn't add any because of what it happens to the individual who is punching, — happens to the individual who is punching, the gap between the guide

on the _ punching, the gap between the guide on the face causing a ricochet, worse — on the face causing a ricochet, worse than _ on the face causing a ricochet, worse than actually without the head god but— worse than actually without the head god but there isn't evidence in women — god but there isn't evidence in women as— god but there isn't evidence in women as to whether they should wear head guards or not, i am not an ekpert— head guards or not, i am not an expert on— head guards or not, i am not an expert on this. you look at the professional scene, no head guards sober— professional scene, no head guards sober needs to be for the research on this— sober needs to be for the research on this and — sober needs to be for the research on this and i— sober needs to be for the research on this and i think the men do not need _ on this and i think the men do not need to— on this and i think the men do not need to wear it so i do not see for the women — need to wear it so i do not see for the women do but maybe someone else could explain this better than me? you could — could explain this better than me? you could apply the same thing to a scrim hat, does it help or not? i cannot talk about rugby, there's different— cannot talk about rugby, there's different things, i mean, in boxing, you are— different things, i mean, in boxing, you are not — different things, i mean, in boxing, you are not actually using physical force _ you are not actually using physical force by— you are not actually using physical force by other means to the individual so i cannot comment on rugby. _ individual so i cannot comment on rugby. i_ individual so i cannot comment on rugby. i am — individual so i cannot comment on rugby, iam not individual so i cannot comment on rugby, i am not ever be doctored. all i can _ rugby, i am not ever be doctored. all i can talk— rugby, i am not ever be doctored. all i can talk about is whether i

think— all i can talk about is whether i think head guards should be required in boxing _ think head guards should be required in boxing. by think head guards should be required in boxina. j ., in boxing. by the way emma, i wouldn't want _ in boxing. by the way emma, i wouldn't want to _ in boxing. by the way emma, i wouldn't want to talk - in boxing. by the way emma, i wouldn't want to talk to - in boxing. by the way emma, i wouldn't want to talk to you, l in boxing. by the way emma, i- wouldn't want to talk to you, what should be ok to wait a couple of minutes? great stuff. michael, fascinating, the issue of head guards. fascinating, the issue of head . uards. fascinating, the issue of head auards. . , ., fascinating, the issue of head auards. . ,., ., . . guards. the reason women are wearing head uuards guards. the reason women are wearing head guards when _ guards. the reason women are wearing head guards when they _ guards. the reason women are wearing head guards when they do _ guards. the reason women are wearing head guards when they do in _ guards. the reason women are wearing head guards when they do in boxing - head guards when they do in boxing is because they head god protects the face from scratches. from operations. that is why they do it. women's brains i was going to say they are not different than manse but that is not true, women are more susceptible to concussion. why is that? one cannot fully know. if you drill into the detail will know the

neurons in women, the axons, we call it, orthinnerand neurons in women, the axons, we call it, or thinner and they do not have the same protection as men do and neck strength is an issue. the whole issue with concussion is that the brain is warbling inside the head. if we can stop or do anything to reduce that warbling then we will reduce that warbling then we will reduce some of the forces to the underlying neural tissue. purely mechanistic argument but the ideas by having stronger, stronger neck muscles will have less of the warbling. t muscles will have less of the warblinu. . muscles will have less of the warbling-— muscles will have less of the warblinu. . , warbling. i am sorry, carry on. the issue with — warbling. i am sorry, carry on. the issue with headgear, _ warbling. i am sorry, carry on. the issue with headgear, i— warbling. i am sorry, carry on. the issue with headgear, i liked - warbling. i am sorry, carry on. the issue with headgear, i liked it - warbling. i am sorry, carry on. the issue with headgear, i liked it like| issue with headgear, i liked it like in it like this, you look at a door and you try to push it open close to the hinges, it is very difficult. if

you move yourfinger the hinges, it is very difficult. if you move your finger away and push the door out towards the handle it is easier to rotate and if we think about the head, when will put headgear on a person, we are increasing the ease at which we can rotate the head and it is these rotational injuries that cause the most damage from a concussive point of view. _, . . most damage from a concussive point of view. ,., . . . most damage from a concussive point of view. . . . ., ., of view. gotcha. i want to call for for a couple _ of view. gotcha. i want to call for for a couple of — of view. gotcha. i want to call for for a couple of moments - of view. gotcha. i want to call for for a couple of moments and - of view. gotcha. i want to call for - for a couple of moments and probably group after the news and sport, there are powerful and insightful calls coming in. sol there are powerful and insightful calls coming in. so i am slightly led, it is 9:35am. here is the news with dan brennan. good morning. a report examining the

circumstances around the appointment of bbc chairman richard sharp is expected to be published soon. it will look if he properly disclosed properly and £800,000 loan guarantee to the damper minister boris johnson. he denies any pride in arranging the loan. a virtual set police may be building to investigate deaths properly after a decade after floors were exposed in the case of stephen port is currently serving a life sentence for murdering four men. the police accept they must do more. officials say at least 12 people have been killed in ukraine after air strikes. a mother and her three—year—old daughter are amongst those who died. as we have heard, new government guidance says anyone with suspected concussion should be removed immediately from football, rugby and all other sports and rest for at least 2a hours. players should not return to competitive sport for three weeks. here is mike mccarthy

with the sport. the man united boss has accused some players have not given 100% in the draw with tottenham. they surrendered a 2—0 lead but remained in the driving seat for the champions league place. the bbc understands the final deadline for the bids to buy manchester united is a 10pm tonight. there are only two realistic bidders. coventry city continued to play at the coventry building society a winner after securing another five year to the pcs. schussler claire has denied having talks with mercedes about a possible move, his contract is up 2a and first practice for the bahrain grand prix gets under way in an hour. the semifinals of the world snooker championships resume, and mark allen is the leading mark selby.

good morning and welcome back. as mentioned in the news we expect that report this morning into the appointment of bbc chairman richard shaw. we will be right on top of that the moment we hear anything, we will tell you. let's proceed with our conversation on concussion in sport. these new guidelines that have been issued. emma, you have been waiting, and professorjames calder is coming up and doctor michael is still with us, a neuroscientist on we have already

heard from you and professorjames, a surgeon that needs to work at the department of media, culture and sport, will be prominent in this issue for some time, good morning. emma, good morning, what happened? about five years ago i was in my house, rushing about, like people do. i was doing laundry and i hit my head walking through quite a low door. i was not knocked unconscious but it was quite a hefty smack. however, ijust thought because i wasn't playing rugby or boxing or anything traumatic, it wasn't real, if you see what i mean? it was just, you tapped your head kind of thing and to cut a long story short... what happened straight after? i sat what happened straight after? i sat down for about _ what happened straight after? i sat down for about 30 _ what happened straight after? u zst down for about 30 minutes, on

what happened straight after? n 3st down for about 30 minutes, on the floor and then i kind of went to get up floor and then i kind of went to get up and get on with it, for god sake! over the course of the next three weeks my health went quite rapidly downhill, i had incredibly debilitating headaches, almost constantly, sick a lot. my speech started to go quite slurred. and so i spoke to my gp and he said, i think you ought to go to accident and emergency, not someone have a look at you. so i went on and they said you have something caught post concussion syndrome, it will probably queue up in the next couple of weeks, take some paracetamol, you will be fine but you will need to sleep so that's what i did for the next couple of weeks and i was not getting better. i stopped next couple of weeks and i was not getting better. istopped being next couple of weeks and i was not getting better. i stopped being able to walk around corners, i would get someone and i would get myself stuck my husband ordered daughter would have to move me on which sounds

ridiculous and i started to forget how people were, people i had known for ten or 15 years, no idea who they were, you could tell me by name, show me photos, no idea. and so i've by an incredible neurologist called jason in exeter and he took me straight in, i had a mri scan, i was put on quite a lot of medication and he said do not read, stop listening to the radio, do not watch telly, i need you to live in the dark for three weeks and i will see you again. anyways, come back and see me. and so i basically went along like that but my mental health as well as my physical disposition just got worse and worse and worse. apart from anything else, you did not sound like the kind of person

who will take kindly to lying in the dock for three weeks? what who will take kindly to lying in the dock for three weeks? what would an bod , dock for three weeks? what would anybody. it — dock for three weeks? what would anybody. it is _ dock for three weeks? what would anybody, it is ghastly _ dock for three weeks? what would anybody, it is ghastly and - anybody, it is ghastly and depressing. i have two kids and their business and my husband and a life. and it was horrendous. i was alone most of the time because my husband is going to work, my kids going to school. you are lying there and with little or nothing to entertain you, just lying in the dark and i used to sleep i! entertain you, just lying in the dark and i used to sleep 11 hours at a time and my husband would wake me “p a time and my husband would wake me up and beat me and i would go back to sleep but when i was awake i was so lonely. —— and feed me. the only place i felt safe with the bathroom and are used to sit there for hours on end and i started to think i will show it was a gas chamber and there was a shark in our bath so it was the only place i felt safe had then become really terrifying. and you

know, i will not lie, i genuinely thought about taking my life, was horrific. it thought about taking my life, was horrific. ,., , thought about taking my life, was horrific. , ., . |t horrific. it sounds horrific. it was. horrific. it sounds horrific. it was- and — horrific. it sounds horrific. it was- and i _ horrific. it sounds horrific. it was. and i have _ horrific. it sounds horrific. it was. and i have amazing - horrific. it sounds horrific. it - was. and i have amazing friends... horrific. it sounds horrific. it - was. and i have amazing friends. .. i was. and i have amazing friends... i am so sorry. was. and i have amazing friends... i am so sorry-— am so sorry. no, no, it sounds horrific. _ am so sorry. no, no, it sounds horrific. you — am so sorry. no, no, it sounds horrific, you have _ am so sorry. no, no, it sounds horrific, you have been - am so sorry. no, no, it sounds| horrific, you have been through am so sorry. no, no, it sounds. horrific, you have been through a horrendous time. tiara horrific, you have been through a horrendous time.— horrendous time. two and a half ears of horrendous time. two and a half years of that. — horrendous time. two and a half years of that, and _ horrendous time. two and a half years of that, and it _ horrendous time. two and a half years of that, and it will- horrendous time. two and a half years of that, and it will sound l years of that, and it will sound silly, i appreciate, years of that, and it will sound silly, iappreciate, everyone years of that, and it will sound silly, i appreciate, everyone else had a really tough time but they really helped me because it sounds really helped me because it sounds really daft, you all have to do what i was doing, stay at home and you could not go out. and it meant it gave me another two years to recover. and start to get better.

and my speech started to come back. being able to go out in the light, i still have problems now, talking to you today i will have to go and have a nap for half an hour because it is quite a lot of processing and we still have our family business and stuff and i go in there a couple of times a week but afterwards i come home and i go to bed and that is me down. most nights i go to bed at 8:30pm and that sucks and i used to be quite fun! it is an incredibly debilitating injury and i was put in touch with a charity called headway who, if anyone has a head injury, i cannot recommend with my whole heart, they are incredible, really kind and understanding. helpful, they give you genuine advice, that

isn't just they give you genuine advice, that isn'tjust have you considered lying in the dark? they will talk to you about stop and i kept saying, it is not a proper injury, i wasjust doing laundry, the woman i was talking to and said, if someone hit you over the head with a plank of wood, you wouldn't be saying it is not a proper injury so you need to remember that is basically what happened, you are going fast and you smacked your head into an oak beam, it will leave a mark. i think everybody, i mean, i've always thought i'm one of those people that takes head injuries quite seriously, your head and eyes, they are important. ijust know that people do not. i am not a stupid person, i am an intelligent human being and even i was, it doesn't matter, i did not fall off a motorbike. and part

of the recent my injury was so bad was because i have ridden horses my whole life, i do not any more because it is safe and i cannot find my head again. —— it is not safe. that was kind of the final thing, my brain went no, you cannot hit me any more. ~ . , ., brain went no, you cannot hit me any more. ~ . i. . more. well, what you said about lockdown makes _ more. well, what you said about lockdown makes absolute - more. well, what you said about| lockdown makes absolute perfect sense, all of a sudden you were not on your own. sense, all of a sudden you were not on your own-— on your own. yes! and also i think what chris — on your own. yes! and also i think what chris said _ on your own. yes! and also i think what chris said earlier, _ on your own. yes! and also i think what chris said earlier, your - what chris said earlier, your caller, is quite nice when you hear it from someone else, you get angry quicker and your working memory is appalling. there are post—it notes all over the house from me going what am i supposed to be doing? the washing up, that kind of thing. you

cannot rely on me to do anything any more and for someone that has always been very reliable, i am not doing it maliciously, it is just not in there any more. it maliciously, it is 'ust not in there any more._ it maliciously, it is 'ust not in there any more. it maliciously, it is 'ust not in there an more. �* . ., there any more. and read about the ears there any more. and read about the years ahead? _ there any more. and read about the years ahead? of _ there any more. and read about the years ahead? of course. _ there any more. and read about the years ahead? of course. and - there any more. and read about the years ahead? of course. and i - there any more. and read about the years ahead? of course. and i had i years ahead? of course. and i had missed two _ years ahead? of course. and i had missed two years _ years ahead? of course. and i had missed two years of _ years ahead? of course. and i had missed two years of the _ years ahead? of course. and i had missed two years of the life - years ahead? of course. and i had missed two years of the life of - years ahead? of course. and i had missed two years of the life of my | missed two years of the life of my children, my youngest daughter when i hit my head, i am not going to do the maths, that would be awful, my youngest daughter was probably about five or six, i think. and youngest daughter was probably about five or six, ithink. and i have youngest daughter was probably about five or six, i think. and i have no recollection of what she did over those two years. and yeah, it is really a serious thing and debilitating and there are lots and lots of people that have head injuries, kids get head injuries at school all the time and i am not sure teachers are properly trained in four to look out for. because i

do not think that concussion symptoms, we know that their pupils are dilated, but that did not happen with me, mine were the same and i thought i have had a couple of glasses of wine too many and that is why i feel sick never linking it to banging my head until my husband said, you need to go and see the doctor no, this is getting stupid. and i wonder what would have happened if i had not. and i think thatis happened if i had not. and i think that is what happens to a lot of people, you talk about the fort, boxing and that kind of thing, people need to look after themselves, look after your head and you are not wasting anyone's time by going to accident and emergency gp and saying, i have had a smack to the head or a bump to the head. but what you said at the beginning, i think a lot of people would think, it happens and it is a will shock

when it happens, and you get on with it. you get up. get on with it. i it. you get up. get on with it. i had laundrette to do, i have the pay to sort out, what am i going to die, not pain myself because i bumped my head? sometimes, especially before lockdown, some of us were better at being self—aware. but you know, you do the things that you have to do, you'll just do the things that you have to do, you'lljust get on with it, rush and rush and rush and sometimes you have to stop because one of my greatest pleasures before this reading and i still cannot read. it is depressing. but i am really lucky. i have got amazing friends. who have looked after me, my husband has been incredible and my kids are really understanding.—

incredible and my kids are really understanding. what if you are on our understanding. what if you are on your own? — understanding. what if you are on your own? i _ understanding. what if you are on your own? i know, _ understanding. what if you are on your own? i know, and _ understanding. what if you are on your own? i know, and i- understanding. what if you are on your own? i know, and i think - understanding. what if you are on l your own? i know, and i think about either so isolated _ your own? i know, and i think about either so isolated from _ your own? i know, and i think about either so isolated from my - your own? i know, and i think about either so isolated from my husband | either so isolated from my husband going to work. i rang my friend jamie one day and was just, going to work. i rang my friend jamie one day and wasjust, i cannot do this any more, i have got to goodbye to you. do this any more, i have got to goodbye to you-— goodbye to you. that is such a owerful goodbye to you. that is such a powerful call _ goodbye to you. that is such a powerful call and _ goodbye to you. that is such a powerful call and such - goodbye to you. that is such a powerful call and such an - goodbye to you. that is such a - powerful call and such an incredible testimony, you took us through it absolutely brilliantly. stabia. james, i will bring in a second but first, let's speak to helen, our correspondent, we are expecting a report this morning into the appointment of the bbc chairman richard sharp. what is the latest, our political correspondentjoining us now. our political correspondent 'oining us now. . . our political correspondent 'oining us now. , , ., our political correspondent 'oining usnow. ,, ., _ us now. this is the report done by the person — us now. this is the report done by the person involved _ us now. this is the report done by the person involved and _ us now. this is the report done by the person involved and he - us now. this is the report done by the person involved and he was i the person involved and he was looking — the person involved and he was looking at — the person involved and he was looking at the process by which richard — looking at the process by which richard sharp was appointed as the bbc chairman in february 21. the bbc chairman— bbc chairman in february 21. the bbc

chairman is— bbc chairman in february 21. the bbc chairman is appointed by the government on the recommendation of the prime _ government on the recommendation of the prime minister. that was boris johnson _ the prime minister. that was boris johnson who recommended that richard sharp be _ johnson who recommended that richard sharp be appointed as the chairman. it later— sharp be appointed as the chairman. it later emerged richard sharp had been involved in the facilitation of an £800,000 loan guarantee to mr johnson — an £800,000 loan guarantee to mr johnson that one of his long—standing friends who was also a distant _ long—standing friends who was also a distant relative of mrjohnson had suggested this to richard sharp that he wanted to do this. richard sharp says he _ he wanted to do this. richard sharp says he had — he wanted to do this. richard sharp says he had no involvement in arranging _ says he had no involvement in arranging the loan but he said he spoke _ arranging the loan but he said he spoke to— arranging the loan but he said he spoke to the cabinet secretary simon cayce _ spoke to the cabinet secretary simon cayce about this person, some bright and the _ cayce about this person, some bright and the fact— cayce about this person, some bright and the fact he wanted to provide some _ and the fact he wanted to provide some financial assistance to boris johnson _ some financial assistance to boris johnson and he said he spoke to mr johnson _ johnson and he said he spoke to mr johnson before he had the conversation to say he was going to do this— conversation to say he was going to do this and — conversation to say he was going to do this and this was after he applied _ do this and this was after he applied to be chairman of the bbc. he says _ applied to be chairman of the bbc. he says he — applied to be chairman of the bbc. he says he was told that, he was advice _ he says he was told that, he was advice he — he says he was told that, he was advice he could avert a potential

point _ advice he could avert a potential point of — advice he could avert a potential point of conflict by taking no further — point of conflict by taking no further part in the process but there — further part in the process but there has— further part in the process but there has been criticism by mps who accused _ there has been criticism by mps who accused him of a serious error of judgment — accused him of a serious error of judgment by not disclosing that when he applied. we judgment by not disclosing that when he a- lied. ~ ., judgment by not disclosing that when he alied. ~ ., ., he applied. we will hear that sometime — he applied. we will hear that sometime this _ he applied. we will hear that sometime this morning, i he applied. we will hear that sometime this morning, but| he applied. we will hear that i sometime this morning, but which sharpe did in will be looking at what it says in the report. helen, thank you for now. more on that to come. on five live, bbc news. on the iplayer. bbc sounds. if you are watching bbc two, some snooker is coming up atioam. watching bbc two, some snooker is coming up at 10am. emma, watching bbc two, some snooker is coming up atioam. emma, thank watching bbc two, some snooker is coming up at 10am. emma, thank you, coming up atioam. emma, thank you, thank you. james, coming up at 10am. emma, thank you, thank you. james, you were listening to that extraordinary account from emma about her life over the past few years and thank you for listening. i was going to come to you sooner but emma still concentration for obvious reasons. what would you say to her? i am glad

ou did what would you say to her? i am glad you did come — what would you say to her? i am glad you did come to _ what would you say to her? i am glad you did come to me _ what would you say to her? i am glad you did come to me later— what would you say to her? i am glad you did come to me later because i what would you say to her? i am glad j you did come to me later because she has the _ you did come to me later because she has the most — you did come to me later because she has the most powerful story and she needs— has the most powerful story and she needs to _ has the most powerful story and she needs to get it out there and it highlights what can go wrong if it is not _ highlights what can go wrong if it is not picked up early and we do not take these _ is not picked up early and we do not take these things seriously. the guidance — take these things seriously. the guidance coming out and being promoted today goes back and follows up promoted today goes back and follows up on the _ promoted today goes back and follows up on the select committee publication in 21 and the government set out _ publication in 21 and the government set out a _ publication in 21 and the government set out a plan to deal with concussion, the action plan on concussion _ concussion, the action plan on concussion and this is the cornerstone and there is more to come. _ cornerstone and there is more to come, education, more research that's— come, education, more research that's needed into the specifics of concussion and the longer term problems— concussion and the longer term problems that may ensue with multiple — problems that may ensue with multiple head injuries and also, the innovation — multiple head injuries and also, the innovation and technology and the purpose _ innovation and technology and the purpose really, the cornerstone for this guidance is to highlight awareness on the strapline, if in doubt. _ awareness on the strapline, if in doubt. dip— awareness on the strapline, if in doubt, dip them out and that has been _

doubt, dip them out and that has beena— doubt, dip them out and that has been a work in scotland since 2016 and i_ been a work in scotland since 2016 and i did _ been a work in scotland since 2016 and i did not think there was any need _ and i did not think there was any need to— and i did not think there was any need to reinvent the wheel. we have used the _ need to reinvent the wheel. we have used the same strapline that has worked _ used the same strapline that has worked well in scotland and brought it into _ worked well in scotland and brought it into the _ worked well in scotland and brought it into the home of the uk and the first bet— it into the home of the uk and the first bet as — it into the home of the uk and the first bet as if in doubt, set them out. _ first bet as if in doubt, set them out. if— first bet as if in doubt, set them out. if you — first bet as if in doubt, set them out, if you suspect concussion it gives— out, if you suspect concussion it gives details of how to suspect it, it is not— gives details of how to suspect it, it is notjust if you are knocked out. _ it is notjust if you are knocked out. as— it is notjust if you are knocked out, as emma said, headaches, dizziness. — out, as emma said, headaches, dizziness, visual changes, very few people _ dizziness, visual changes, very few people are — dizziness, visual changes, very few people are knocked out and people think about that and it takes you through— think about that and it takes you through stages of what to do. call nhs 111_ through stages of what to do. call nhs iii or— through stages of what to do. call nhs 111 or in scotland nhs 24 and be able to— nhs 111 or in scotland nhs 24 and be able to catch up through the guidance and then it goes through stages _ guidance and then it goes through stages of— guidance and then it goes through stages of recovery. go through a stage _ stages of recovery. go through a stage recovery, introduction of work or education. ultimately getting back into — or education. ultimately getting back into sport because we know sport— back into sport because we know sport is— back into sport because we know sport is important. ifi back into sport because we know sport is important.— sport is important. if i can come in, for mental _ sport is important. if i can come in, for mental health, _ sport is important. if i can come in, for mental health, getting i in, for mental health, getting exercise and get out there, we have

been told to do that over time, it is a win — win but this is notjust rugby or football is a win — win but this is notjust rugby orfootball or is a win — win but this is notjust rugby or football or hockey, horse boxing, basketball. emma, come back, it is walking into the living room! it is laundry, it is really dangerous! laughter. i could not agree more, dcms did really— i could not agree more, dcms did really well— i could not agree more, dcms did really well in getting this out there — really well in getting this out there but taking sport of this, it is everyday life, work, domestic abuse. — is everyday life, work, domestic abuse, road traffic accident, everything and accidents in the street. — everything and accidents in the street, falling off a skateboard. what _ street, falling off a skateboard. what would you say to emma about her life and what has happened? dramatic changes, what would you say? it is life and what has happened? dramatic changes, what would you say? it if. a changes, what would you say? it is a terrible story. _ changes, what would you say? it is a terrible story, emma. _ changes, what would you say? it is a terrible story, emma. i— changes, what would you say? it is a terrible story, emma. ithink- changes, what would you say? it is a terrible story, emma. i think we i terrible story, emma. i think we need _ terrible story, emma. ! think we need to— terrible story, emma. i think we need to remember is the vast

majority— need to remember is the vast majority of people make a complete recovery— majority of people make a complete recovery without long—term problems but your— recovery without long—term problems but your case highlights the potential problems if it is not dealt — potential problems if it is not dealt with at an early stage and some _ dealt with at an early stage and some people can have a long recovery like this— some people can have a long recovery like this and _ some people can have a long recovery like this and it's a terrible story but the — like this and it's a terrible story but the majority can resume sport and activity — but the majority can resume sport and activity and a concussion, perhaps— and activity and a concussion, perhaps 600,000 concussions sport related _ perhaps 600,000 concussions sport related every year and only very few have long—term problems but the key point is _ have long—term problems but the key point is peter robinson, who son tragically— point is peter robinson, who son tragically died in 2011 aged 14, three — tragically died in 2011 aged 14, three concussions injust the one rugby— three concussions injust the one rugby match and he promoted the idea. _ rugby match and he promoted the idea. if_ rugby match and he promoted the idea. if in— rugby match and he promoted the idea, if in doubt set them out. he was idea, if in doubt set them out. was born idea, if in doubt set them out. he: was born earlier. idea, if in doubt set them out. he was born earlier. i _ idea, if in doubt set them out. he was born earlier. i am _ idea, if in doubt set them out. he was born earlier. i am so - idea, if in doubt set them out. he was born earlier. i am so sorry, i | was born earlier. i am so sorry, i missed that _ was born earlier. i am so sorry, i missed that but _ was born earlier. i am so sorry, i missed that but if _ was born earlier. i am so sorry, i missed that but if you _ was born earlier. i am so sorry, i missed that but if you recognise | missed that but if you recognise that. _ missed that but if you recognise that. put— missed that but if you recognise that, put them aside, take them off the pitch— that, put them aside, take them off the pitch because if you prevent a second _ the pitch because if you prevent a second upper concussion it can make a huge _ second upper concussion it can make a huge difference.—

second upper concussion it can make a huge difference. emma, what about now. one a huge difference. emma, what about now- one of— a huge difference. emma, what about now. one of the _ a huge difference. emma, what about now. one of the things _ a huge difference. emma, what about now. one of the things i _ a huge difference. emma, what about now. one of the things i wanted i a huge difference. emma, what about now. one of the things i wanted to i now. one of the things i wanted to sa about now. one of the things i wanted to say about rugby. — now. one of the things i wanted to say about rugby. i _ now. one of the things i wanted to say about rugby, i have _ now. one of the things i wanted to say about rugby, i have some i say about rugby, i have some experience with rugby, with blood injuries and stuff they must come straight off and they are not allowed back on until the injury has been treated and i think with all sports, just because you cannot see a physical one, doesn't mean to say that person should sit out and i wholeheartedly agree. if someone has had a bank to the head regardless of whether they were knocked out or not, they should come off and the guy that lost his son, the most heartbreaking story. horrendous. i'm going for me. i don't know, i am 80% of the person i was but i would rather be 80% of the person i was than not here at all. and you know, i am really lucky. we have a great team at work who have picked up my

stuff and you know, helped when my husband was looking after me and stuff, they have been fantastic. like i said, my friends have been incredible, a couple of them so very, very supportive. and it'sjust adjusting, and saying you know what, i know i have to go to bed at 8:30pm all i want but i can fight at all i want but i will suffer the next day so i do what i have to do and when i feel tired or lousy or i am behaving like a bomb but all i do not know who someone else, ijust go to bed because it is my body saying you need to rest and taking time to, i guess, be selfish? i think the word selfish has such negative attributes.— selfish has such negative

attributes. ., , ., , attributes. look after yourself! completely. — attributes. look after yourself! completely, that's _ attributes. look after yourself! completely, that's all - attributes. look after yourself! l completely, that's all important, moments like this, it shows that people are not alone. you can feel incredibly alone.— incredibly alone. your contribution on this, incredibly alone. your contribution on this. they _ incredibly alone. your contribution on this, they could _ incredibly alone. your contribution on this, they could not _ incredibly alone. your contribution on this, they could not have i incredibly alone. your contribution on this, they could not have been | incredibly alone. your contribution | on this, they could not have been a more powerful, important and impactful contribution. let me see if you are watching on bbc to the world championships in a court will get under way but we are continuing this conversation on the pc sounds, bbc news and bbc radio 5 live. emma, let me thank you so much, you will have picked up the phone and got in touch and i could not have asked for a better illustration. james, your final comment?— a better illustration. james, your final comment? ~ , ., ,, final comment? absolutely, thank you for highlighting _ final comment? absolutely, thank you for highlighting that _ final comment? absolutely, thank you for highlighting that envelope - final comment? absolutely, thank you for highlighting that envelope the i for highlighting that envelope the other— for highlighting that envelope the other points as it's difficult, there's— other points as it's difficult, there's a _ other points as it's difficult, there's a lot of pressure on kids to stay on _ there's a lot of pressure on kids to stay on the — there's a lot of pressure on kids to stay on the pitch and these

guidelines will offer some assistance to the coaches and referees _ assistance to the coaches and referees to say no, we are taking off are _ referees to say no, we are taking off are the — referees to say no, we are taking off are the reason so any parents out there — off are the reason so any parents out there says the kid can stay on, there _ out there says the kid can stay on, there is— out there says the kid can stay on, there is a — out there says the kid can stay on, there is a reason for taking them off, there is a reason for taking them off. it _ there is a reason for taking them off. it is — there is a reason for taking them off. it is for— there is a reason for taking them off, it is for their protection. thank— off, it is for their protection. thank you _ off, it is for their protection. thank you all so much, you can react to everything you are hearing on this programme by pulling 08085 909693 and you can 85085 and get to us on social media at @bbc5live. here is the breaking news that we bring you this morning, bbc chairman richard sharp has resigned. we are still waiting for details of a report that is due out now which was looking at how he was appointed as

the bbc chairman in february 2021. it was considering if richard sharp properly disclosed any involvement he had in facilitating an £800,000 loan guarantee to borisjohnson, who was the prime minister at the time. let me bring you that news again, richard sharp has resigned as chairman of the bbc. he has given a statement. let's hear what he has to say today. statement. let's hear what he has to sa toda . ., ., say today. good morning. i would like to thank— say today. good morning. i would like to thank adam _ say today. good morning. i would like to thank adam had _ say today. good morning. i would like to thank adam had to - say today. good morning. i would like to thank adam had to installl like to thank adam had to install and his team for the diligence and professionalism they have shown in compiling today's report. his view is that while i did breach the governance code public appointments, he states clearly the breach does not necessarily invalidate an appointment. indeed, i have always maintained the breach was inadvertent and not material, and the facts he lays out substantiates

that. the secretary of state has consulted with the bbc board, who support that view. nevertheless, i have decided that it's right to prioritise the interest of the bbc. i feel this matter may well be a distraction from the corporation's good work were i to remain in post until the end of my term. i have therefore this morning resigned as a bbc chair to the secretary. it was proposed to me that i stay on as chair until the end ofjune while the process to appoint my successor is undertaken and i will of course do that in the interests of the corporation's stability and continuity. let me turn to the events that are subject off today's report. when i sought in december 2020 to introduce the cabinet secretary to mr blyth, i did so in good faith and with the best of intentions. i did so with the sole

purpose of ensuring that all relevant rules were being followed. i am pleased that mr heppinstall supports the fact that my involvement in these matters, as he states, was accordingly very limited. after extensive work he states, his words, that he is happy to record that he has seen no evidence, and nor could he, to say i played any part whatsoever in facilitation, arrangement or financing of a loan to the former prime minister. during my conversation with the cabinet secretary on december four, conversation with the cabinet secretary on decemberfour, 2020 i reminded him of the fact that i was in the bbc appointment process. i believed as a result of that conversation that i had been removed from any conflict or perception of conflict. i understood this recusal to be absolute. this was my error. in my subsequent interview with the

appointments panel i wish with the benefit of hindsight that this potential perceived conflict of interest was something i had considered to mention. i would like once again to apologise for that oversight, inadvertent though it was, and for the distraction these events have caused the bbc. for more than 20 years i have devoted time and energy to public service, whether at the institute for cancer research, at the royal academy of arts, on the financial policy committee of the bank of england or as an economic adviser to the treasury working out to protect british interests including the creative industries during a pandemic. for more than two years now i have seen the beating heart of the bbc up close and for all its complexities, successes and occasional failings, complexities, successes and occasionalfailings, the bbc is an incredible, dynamic and world beating creative force of unmatched anywhere. as chair i have acted at all times in the public interest and

for the betterment of the bbc. i am proud to have fought for the recent return of government funding for the world service. i have been active in commissioning independent thematic reviews of bbc coverage on touchstone issues and i have championed the importance of the bbc has a well funded and impartial public service broadcaster will stop to chair this incredible organisation has been an honour. the bbc boss my contribution to our national life is immense. it's people are hard—working and absolutely brilliant, and preserving and enhancing it really matters. thank you. let and enhancing it really matters. thank you-— and enhancing it really matters. thank ou. , ., , thank you. let me give you the news aiain, thank you. let me give you the news again. richard _ thank you. let me give you the news again, richard sharp _ thank you. let me give you the news again, richard sharp is _ thank you. let me give you the news again, richard sharp is resigning i thank you. let me give you the news again, richard sharp is resigning as l again, richard sharp is resigning as chairman of the bbc, as you just saw and heard. an independent report into his involvement in the facilitation of a loan for boris johnson has been published. he accepts that he did breach the governance code for public appointments which he says the report has found. he says the breach

was inadvertent and not material and he says that the report supports his view of the matter. he says the report, as you heard, finds he didn't play any part whatsoever in the facilitation, arrangement or financing of a loan for the former prime minister. no evidence in facilitation or arrangement were his words. richard sharp has resigned as chairman of the bbc. in the studio we have richard eyre, former bbc controller of editorial policy. david sillito, arts correspondent, how did we get to this? we david sillito, arts correspondent, how did we get to this?— how did we get to this? we have richard sharp, _ how did we get to this? we have richard sharp, the _ how did we get to this? we have richard sharp, the chairman i how did we get to this? we have richard sharp, the chairman of l how did we get to this? we have i richard sharp, the chairman of the bbc, and there was a story several months ago in which it was revealed he had a role in a loan guarantee that was made to borisjohnson. it all began with a phone call back in septemberfrom a man all began with a phone call back in september from a man who all began with a phone call back in septemberfrom a man who is all began with a phone call back in

september from a man who is a distant cousin of the former prime minister borisjohnson, who says, i hear he is in a bit of a financial pickle and i'm thinking i might like to help him out. he said he rang his friend richard sharp who happened to be working next door to number ten, at number 11, helping out rishi sunak, who was the chancellor at the time, with the covid recovery plan. he is a banker with a lot of financial expertise. that was it, it was all over and he thought no more about it. then the job at the bbc, chairman, came up and he applied for it. then after the application he gets another contact from this man, sam blyth, canadian, who says he would like to go ahead with it. can you point me in the right direction, how i can go about this. and he says, yes, i need to put you in touch with simon case, the cabinet secretary. and he said, i will have a word with him. he essentially brings the two people together and that was as far as it went.—

that was as far as it went. cabinet secretary simon _ that was as far as it went. cabinet secretary simon case, _ that was as far as it went. cabinet secretary simon case, what i that was as far as it went. cabinet secretary simon case, what was l that was as far as it went. cabinet i secretary simon case, what was his role in this and what did he say about it? �* . role in this and what did he say about it? �*, _, , role in this and what did he say aboutit? , ,, about it? it's complicated because he is the head _ about it? it's complicated because he is the head of _ about it? it's complicated because he is the head of the _ about it? it's complicated because| he is the head of the appointments process. the full details will come out in the report which hasn't actually yet been published but essentially it was a meeting in december between richard sharp and simon case in which richard sharp says, i have had this approach, i willjust put it with you that he wants to help borisjohnson out. he said that was it, he was told that was it, he would say no more about it, he was recused from the process and he believes that was the end of the matter. however, he did not mention it to the appointments panel or the commons media select committee, who are part of the official appointments process. all official appointments process. all of this he says was an oversight, an error he regrets. he says it was inadvertent, but he says the official report which is due out

today has deemed that that was a breach of the rules because the governance code, and we can read it out here, asks, if you have any interest that might be relevant to the work of the bbc and which could lead to a real or perceived conflict of interest if you were to be appointed, please provide details on your application. appointed, please provide details on yourapplication. he appointed, please provide details on your application. he didn't give any details of this, what he says is a very minor role in this loan guarantee made to borisjohnson, but given borisjohnson was the man who actually appointed him, it is clear, very close, hell essentially helping out someone who might give you a job, it's something people on an appointments panel and people on the commons select committee felt they should know about. this has been essentially a slow puncture over the last month or two, as people have asked endless questions. for instance, during the gary lineker firestorm when he was suspended, a lot of people were pointing out

going, the chairman seems to be notable by his absence. he doesn't seem to be taking on a leadership role or a public one. many questions have been asked. the reason he says he is going today, he says the breach was effectively minor but it is proving a distraction and he should go. he will stay until the end ofjune but that's it. let me read ou end ofjune but that's it. let me read you a _ end ofjune but that's it. let me read you a statement _ end ofjune but that's it. let me read you a statement from i end ofjune but that's it. let me read you a statement from the i end ofjune but that's it. let me i read you a statement from the bbc board which has come in. richard sharp has today informed the board he is stepping down from his role at the bbc. the bbc board issue the following statement. we accept and understand richard's decision to stand down. we want to put on record our thanks to richard, who has been a valued and respected colleague and a valued and respected colleague and a very effective chairman of the bbc. the bbc board believes richard sharp is a person of integrity. richard has been a real advocate for the bbc, its mission and why the corporation is a priceless asset for their country at home and abroad. he

has always had the impartiality of the bbc and the desire to see it thrive at the forefront of his work as chairman. we understand the uk government is moving swiftly to begin the process of appointing the new chairman, a new chairman of the bbc in line with the terms of the bbc's bbc in line with the terms of the bbc�*s charter. richard sharp, chairman of the bbc, said being chairman of the bbc, said being chairman of the bbc, said being chairman of the bbc has been an enormous privilege. it's an incredible organisation which has never mattered more than it does today, at home, in the uk and around the world. i am proud to have with uniquely talented teams across the bbc, they are the best at what they do and i will always be their champion. this is the news richard sharp is resigning as chairman of the bbc. richard eyre is here, the high head one in days gone by, former bbc controller of editorial policy. what's your news to the

resignation? it’s policy. what's your news to the resignation?— policy. what's your news to the resignation? it's interesting that the bbc and _ resignation? it's interesting that the bbc and the _ resignation? it's interesting that the bbc and the chairman i resignation? it's interesting that the bbc and the chairman have i resignation? it's interesting that i the bbc and the chairman have got in first with _ the bbc and the chairman have got in first with their reaction to a report— first with their reaction to a report that we still haven't seen. it isjust— report that we still haven't seen. it isjust appearing on david will it is just appearing on david will go through it with a fine tooth comb to get some lines. it is go through it with a fine tooth comb to get some lines.— to get some lines. it is apparently very lengthy _ to get some lines. it is apparently very lengthy so — to get some lines. it is apparently very lengthy so we _ to get some lines. it is apparently very lengthy so we will _ to get some lines. it is apparently very lengthy so we will see - to get some lines. it is apparently very lengthy so we will see if i to get some lines. it is apparently very lengthy so we will see if our. very lengthy so we will see if our interpretation is the same as richard — interpretation is the same as richard sharp puts on it. but to be clear. _ richard sharp puts on it. but to be clear. this — richard sharp puts on it. but to be clear, this was never about richard sharp's— clear, this was never about richard sharp's performance since he became chairman— sharp's performance since he became chairman of— sharp's performance since he became chairman of the bbc. by many accounts. _ chairman of the bbc. by many accounts, not all, but by many accounts — accounts, not all, but by many accounts he has done the job diligently well and has been a fearsome advocate on behalf of the bbc and _ fearsome advocate on behalf of the bbc and i— fearsome advocate on behalf of the bbc and i don't doubt the sincerity of some _ bbc and i don't doubt the sincerity of some of— bbc and i don't doubt the sincerity of some of his board colleagues when they say— of some of his board colleagues when they say they are sorry to lose him. this was— they say they are sorry to lose him. this was about the integrity and transparency of the way in which richard — transparency of the way in which richard sharp, at the very time that he had _ richard sharp, at the very time that he had told — richard sharp, at the very time that he had told the prime minister in person— he had told the prime minister in person that he wanted the job of

chairman— person that he wanted the job of chairman of the bbc, at that very time _ chairman of the bbc, at that very time while — chairman of the bbc, at that very time while the prime minister was considering his candidacy, richard sharp— considering his candidacy, richard sharp had — considering his candidacy, richard sharp had a second conversation with johnson's _ sharp had a second conversation with johnson's distant cousin sam blyth and agreed to put sam blyth in touch with the _ and agreed to put sam blyth in touch with the cabinet secretary. richard sharp _ with the cabinet secretary. richard sharp says — with the cabinet secretary. richard sharp says he did that in order to make _ sharp says he did that in order to make sure — sharp says he did that in order to make sure all the rules were followed. _ make sure all the rules were followed. frankly, it wasn't richard sharp's— followed. frankly, it wasn't richard sharp's business to ensure the rules about— sharp's business to ensure the rules about how— sharp's business to ensure the rules about how you want to sob the prime minister. _ about how you want to sob the prime minister. if— about how you want to sob the prime minister, if he has financial difficulties, are followed. he was then a _ difficulties, are followed. he was then a candidate, and the prime minister— then a candidate, and the prime minister knew he was a candidate, to be chairman— minister knew he was a candidate, to be chairman of the bbc. every candidate, and if the viewers and listeners — candidate, and if the viewers and listeners want to check themselves, io listeners want to check themselves, go online _ listeners want to check themselves, go online and google bbc chairman application and you will find all the details on how to apply two and a half— the details on how to apply two and a half years ago to be chairman of the bbc_ a half years ago to be chairman of the bbc are still online. it is crystal—

the bbc are still online. it is crystal clear that every candidate has to _ crystal clear that every candidate has to fill — crystal clear that every candidate has to fill in a form called the conflicts— has to fill in a form called the conflicts of interest form, they have _ conflicts of interest form, they have to — conflicts of interest form, they have to sign it, date it. there is a link to— have to sign it, date it. there is a link to guidance as to what might be a conflict _ link to guidance as to what might be a conflict of— link to guidance as to what might be a conflict of interest. interestingly the link has been deleted — interestingly the link has been deleted within the last six weeks or so from _ deleted within the last six weeks or so from the dcms website but what it said before that was an example of a conflict _ said before that was an example of a conflict which you must declare if you are _ conflict which you must declare if you are a — conflict which you must declare if you are a candidate is anything that might— you are a candidate is anything that might lead — you are a candidate is anything that might lead to the perception your appointment was in return for a favour. — appointment was in return for a favour. he _ appointment was in return for a favour. he had, meaningfully or not, he had _ favour. he had, meaningfully or not, he had done — favour. he had, meaningfully or not, he had done a favour for the prime minister— he had done a favour for the prime minister in — he had done a favour for the prime minister in helping him sort out his finances. _ minister in helping him sort out his finances. he didn't declare that to the assessment panel. he simply told the assessment panel. he simply told the cabinet secretary, who apparently himself didn't pass it on to the _ apparently himself didn't pass it on to the assessment panel. this is an issue _ to the assessment panel. this is an issue of— to the assessment panel. this is an issue of transparency and integrity and both— issue of transparency and integrity and both of those, there are seven

principles— and both of those, there are seven principles in— and both of those, there are seven principles in public office you are supposed — principles in public office you are supposed to adhere to and two of them. _ supposed to adhere to and two of them, arguably the two most important, our integrity and transparency and that's why he had to go. _ transparency and that's why he had to go. for— transparency and that's why he had to o, ., ., transparency and that's why he had to no. ., ., , ., to go. for our viewers and listeners. _ to go. for our viewers and listeners, richard - to go. for our viewers and listeners, richard sharp, i to go. for our viewers and i listeners, richard sharp, the chairman of the bbc, has resigned. what does the chairman of the bbc do, richard? i'm very interested in the answer to that question myself stop and also can you comment on the fact that sam blyth, a distant cousin of borisjohnson, and that's an interesting detail, some might say unnecessary detail, he is a very distant cousin of borisjohnson, he is related to borisjohnson in the same way danny dyer is related to richard iii. that aside, what is the bbc chairman? i richard iii. that aside, what is the bbc chairman?— richard iii. that aside, what is the bbc chairman? i didn't know about danny dyer! _ bbc chairman? i didn't know about danny dyer! the — bbc chairman? i didn't know about danny dyer! the fine _ bbc chairman? i didn't know about danny dyer! the fine bbc - bbc chairman? i didn't know about i danny dyer! the fine bbc programme who do ou danny dyer! the fine bbc programme who do you think— danny dyer! the fine bbc programme who do you think you _ danny dyer! the fine bbc programme who do you think you are, _ danny dyer! the fine bbc programme who do you think you are, covered i who do you think you are, covered that. , . who do you think you are, covered that. _ , ., ., ., . that. the new system of governance at the bbc that _

that. the new system of governance at the bbc that came _ that. the new system of governance at the bbc that came in _ that. the new system of governance at the bbc that came in in _ that. the new system of governance at the bbc that came in in 2016, - at the bbc that came in in 2016, before _ at the bbc that came in in 2016, before that there was the bbc trust, and i was _ before that there was the bbc trust, and i was a — before that there was the bbc trust, and i was a member of that, which was entirely— and i was a member of that, which was entirely separate to the bbc executive headed by the director—general, that took all the decisions — director—general, that took all the decisions about the bbc's content and programming. there was a report in 2015— and programming. there was a report in 2015 that— and programming. there was a report in 2015 that recommended the system be replaced by a unitary board, and that means — be replaced by a unitary board, and that means it brings together outsiders like the chairman of the bbc together with a small number of insiders— bbc together with a small number of insiders led by the director—general and they— insiders led by the director—general and they together are responsible for everything the bbc does. in theory— for everything the bbc does. in theory the chairman of the bbc is responsible for your appointment, nicky. _ responsible for your appointment, nicky. and — responsible for your appointment, nicky, and long may it continue. but not in nicky, and long may it continue. not in practice. nicky, and long may it continue. but not in practice. not _ nicky, and long may it continue. but not in practice. not in _ nicky, and long may it continue. but not in practice. not in practice. in i not in practice. not in practice. in ractice not in practice. not in practice. in practice the _ not in practice. not in practice. in practice the director-general i practice the director—general continues to take all editorial decisions. one of the issues that has arisen — decisions. one of the issues that has arisen since the unitary board was set _ has arisen since the unitary board was set up —

has arisen since the unitary board was set up is that richard sharp played — was set up is that richard sharp played a — was set up is that richard sharp played a part in the appointment process— played a part in the appointment process for the woman who is now director— process for the woman who is now director of— process for the woman who is now director of bbc news. and the reason he played _ director of bbc news. and the reason he played a _ director of bbc news. and the reason he played a part, because clearly that's— he played a part, because clearly that's an — he played a part, because clearly that's an editorial decision, who you have — that's an editorial decision, who you have running yourjournalism, the reason — you have running yourjournalism, the reason richard sharp played a part was— the reason richard sharp played a part was because the director—general shows that the new director—general shows that the new director of— director—general shows that the new director of news was one of those three _ director of news was one of those three executive members of the unitary— three executive members of the unitary board and because richard sharp— unitary board and because richard sharp chairs the board he was right as chairman — sharp chairs the board he was right as chairman entitled to play a role in her— as chairman entitled to play a role in her appointment. to answer your question— in her appointment. to answer your question broadly, richard sharp is there _ question broadly, richard sharp is there to _ question broadly, richard sharp is there to fight on behalf of the bbc, to ensure _ there to fight on behalf of the bbc, to ensure the bbc has the right strategy— to ensure the bbc has the right strategy as it goes forward. it's financial— strategy as it goes forward. it's financial strategy, to argue with government, and in those matters he has apparently been very successful because _ has apparently been very successful because he knows a lot of people in government because he has worked with a _ government because he has worked with a lot _ government because he has worked with a lot of people in government

also appears to be rishi sunak's boss. _ also appears to be rishi sunak's boss. he — also appears to be rishi sunak's boss. ~' ., , also appears to be rishi sunak's boss. ~ ., , ., , boss. he knows how the wheels turn. we will aet boss. he knows how the wheels turn. we will get into _ boss. he knows how the wheels turn. we will get into the _ boss. he knows how the wheels turn. we will get into the issue _ boss. he knows how the wheels turn. we will get into the issue of - we will get into the issue of whether it should be a political appointment in the first place. david sillito is going through the report and we will get some of the lines you are pulling out of it in a second. we can speak to political correspondent david wallace lockhart. any political reaction? no, we haven't heard much yet. there is still a lot of digesting of the report going on, looking at exactly what's coming out of that. what we know obviously is that many opposition politicians have been highly critical for quite some time about the way richard sharp had conducted himself in going about getting thisjob. we got conducted himself in going about getting this job. we got a conducted himself in going about getting thisjob. we got a number of reports into the appointment and this isjust one reports into the appointment and this is just one of them. we already had from didn't make one from the parliament dcms culture committee, a cross—party group of mps, where they

had gone over the appointments process and question whether richard sharp had been quite open enough in doing so. it was quite a highly critical report and essentially having had a quick scan through today's report from the independent kc into the appointment, there are similarfindings being found, so i imagine politicians on the dcms committee will be satisfied with how this has come out and the way this has ended. abs, this has come out and the way this has ended-— has ended. a highly political issue and a highly _ has ended. a highly political issue and a highly politicised _ has ended. a highly political issue and a highly politicised row, i has ended. a highly political issue| and a highly politicised row, david, it's fair to say. and a highly politicised row, david, it's fair to say-— it's fair to say. that's correct. and for opposition _ it's fair to say. that's correct. and for opposition parties i it's fair to say. that's correct. | and for opposition parties who it's fair to say. that's correct. i and for opposition parties who will try to make any issue essentially one that can work in their political favour, there were many factors here at play that did become very political. for one, borisjohnson's involvement in all this, and secondly, rishi sunak himself is

someone who was quite close with richard sharp in his previous career in banking, he had worked with richard sharp and brought richard sharp into the treasury during covid to help work with the economic response to the pandemic. it should be said rishi sunak wasn't involved in the appointment of richard sharp. he wasn't someone who was involved in him ultimately getting the role as chairman of the bbc but obviously all those links to the conservative party, something many political opponents had tried to play up throughout this whole saga. that's something that was probably always likely to come into this as a factor. �* . likely to come into this as a factor. �* , ,, ., ,, ., , likely to come into this as a factor. �* , ,, .,~ , factor. and rishi sunak has placed ireat factor. and rishi sunak has placed great store — factor. and rishi sunak has placed great store in _ factor. and rishi sunak has placed great store in integrity, _ great store in integrity, transparency and propriety. thank you, david. let's return to david sillito, ourarts you, david. let's return to david sillito, our arts and media correspondent for the bbc. you have

been having a glance at the report so does anything leap out? fiften so does anything leap out? often these reports _ so does anything leap out? often these reports are _ so does anything leap out? often these reports are very _ so does anything leap out? often these reports are very hard i so does anything leap out? often these reports are very hard to i these reports are very hard to actually decipher. it is often written in code. this is pretty clear that the successful candidate richard sharp failed to disclose potential perceived conflicts of interest to the panel which interview candidates and advised ministers will stop he said the non—disclosures are a very clear breach of the government code. he also talks about the fact there may well have been the risk or perception that mr sharp might not be independent from the former prime minister if appointed. this is all about, did he tell the truth as he was being appointed, and did he tell the full truth, and it's pretty clear here that he didn't. he said theissue clear here that he didn't. he said the issue here is that one of independence. looking at the job ascription for bbc chairman... there is no finding — ascription for bbc chairman... there is no finding about _ ascription for bbc chairman... there is no finding about intention. - ascription for bbc chairman... there is no finding about intention. not i is no finding about intention. not particularly _ is no finding about intention. ijfrt

particularly but the perception is the key thing. the number one issue at the top of the job description for the bbc chairman is to maintain the independence of the bbc and if by this process there has been a risk of perception that mr sharp would not be independent of the prime minister, that's a pretty clear finding there. prime minister, that's a pretty clearfinding there. it's prime minister, that's a pretty clear finding there. it's accepting that much of this was inadvertent, it was an error. but certainly, clearly a perception of a conflict—of—interest and it's very clear if you read the governance code that that is a breach. perception is all and you can get in touch if you so desire. how do you perceive all of this? some pretty negative comments, i have to say, about the great organisation the bbc on text at the moment. 85058 and you can call 08085 909693. alice anders, director of research at enders analysis, specialising in analysing

the media. and jake kantor, investigations manager of deadline and former media correspondent for the times. covering media for a long time. what do you make of this? good mornini , time. what do you make of this? good morning. nice — time. what do you make of this? good morning. nice to _ time. what do you make of this? good morning, nice to speak _ time. what do you make of this? (13mg. morning, nice to speak to you. i think it probably comes down to this. being chairman of the bbc requires finejudgment. i think this. being chairman of the bbc requires fine judgment. i think it's clearfrom the findings requires fine judgment. i think it's clear from the findings of this report and from what we have seen over the last few months, and this has been dragging on, that richard sharp has not shown good judgment. i think many of his colleagues at the bbc would share that view. they think this whole episode has been a really unhelpful distraction for the bbc and has exacerbated the view that the bbc has essentially come too close to the government. what's interesting here is that richard

sharp's advantages as chairman have also proven to be has in doing. he is an establishment figure who is steeped in close relationships with senior government figures and that can work to the bbc's advantage, and it can be helpful when it is negotiating things like its licence fee settlement. but it has proved to be richard sharp's undoing because as the red point points out that there is now a perception he was perhaps too close to the government and the bbc of course needs to be completely and unscrupulously independent from the government. we will speak to roger mosey and a second, who was controller of 5 live, head of sport at the bbc and editor of the today programme who has been around the block a few times. what do you think of the whole issue of the position being a political appointment? this whole issue of the position being a political appointment?— political appointment? this is the wa this

political appointment? this is the way this particular _ political appointment? this is the way this particular position i political appointment? this is the way this particular position is i way this particular position is designed. it was enshrined in the bbc's charter and it will continue to be the case for the next two years unless they go back and undo what is a very important piece of legislation. without getting into too much history about the bbc and its mechanics, this appointment was seen to be the best way of going about installing a chairman of the bbc and it's important to remember here that this whole crisis and this whole saga has not been an issue of the bbc's own making. this is a government appointment and the bbc had no say in that appointment. and equally it was unable to fire its chairman because it is a government appointment. we chairman because it is a government appointment-— chairman because it is a government appointment. we can speak to roger mosey now. — appointment. we can speak to roger mosey now, former _ appointment. we can speak to roger mosey now, former controller - appointment. we can speak to roger mosey now, former controller of - appointment. we can speak to roger mosey now, former controller of 5 i mosey now, former controller of 5 live, head of sport, editor of the

today programme for a while. it wasn't richard sharp, who gave me thejob here, it was roger mosey, let me tell you, richard air. former apparatchik supreme and now independent voice without parity, as they say. i’m independent voice without parity, as the sa. ., independent voice without parity, as the sa. ,, ., they say. i'm responsible for nicky cam - bell! they say. i'm responsible for nicky campbell! that's _ they say. i'm responsible for nicky campbell! that's why _ they say. i'm responsible for nicky campbell! that's why you - they say. i'm responsible for nicky| campbell! that's why you resigned. was this the _ campbell! that's why you resigned. was this the right _ campbell! that's why you resigned. was this the right decision - campbell! that's why you resigned. was this the right decision by - was this the right decision by richard sharp? i was this the right decision by richard sharp?— was this the right decision by richard sharp? i think it was. i think it's right _ richard sharp? i think it was. i think it's right and _ richard sharp? i think it was. i think it's right and inevitable. l think it's right and inevitable. there was a question of what happened in the process, which we have heard about today. but for me the more important thing was, could this man leads the bbc in the future. if you are chair of the bbc it's a pretty high threshold. you are the person insisting on the higher standards from the bbc and it's pretty tough to do that if you are judged it's pretty tough to do that if you arejudged not it's pretty tough to do that if you are judged not to it's pretty tough to do that if you arejudged not to have it's pretty tough to do that if you are judged not to have followed the best possible processes in being appointed to the job. did it

best possible processes in being appointed to the job.— best possible processes in being appointed to the job. appointed to the 'ob. did it have to ha en, appointed to the job. did it have to happen. though? _ appointed to the job. did it have to happen, though? is _ appointed to the job. did it have to happen, though? is it _ appointed to the job. did it have to happen, though? is it not, - appointed to the job. did it have to happen, though? is it not, was - appointed to the job. did it have to happen, though? is it not, was it. happen, though? is it not, was it not on a fine line, or is it in your mind pretty clear this had to happen? i mind pretty clear this had to ha--en? ~ mind pretty clear this had to ha en? ~ �* , mind pretty clear this had to hauen? ~ �*, , , happen? i think it's because unfortunately, _ happen? i think it's because unfortunately, i— happen? i think it's because unfortunately, ithink- happen? i think it's because l unfortunately, i think richard happen? i think it's because - unfortunately, i think richard sharp is clearly a man of talent, and the word from inside the bbc was that he was doing a good job as chair. there is a sense sometimes that a political appointment can go happily native within the bbc and be a good supporter of the bbc and i think that's what people in the bbc felt. we saw it during the gary lineker affair where you have a major controversy about impartiality and you have to handle top talent in the bbc and insist they stick by impartiality and you can't do that when you are compromised yourself and also so tied up with defending your own position that in public at least richard sharp was invisible during that time. that's why you needed the chair to be out there

defending the interests of the bbc and be a person of unqualified integrity in themselves.- and be a person of unqualified integrity in themselves. there was another perception _ integrity in themselves. there was another perception as _ integrity in themselves. there was another perception as well, - integrity in themselves. there was| another perception as well, roger, and this has been a matter of debate recently swirling around social media, a bbc controlled by a bunch of tories. we are always of course being accused of being controlled by or overly influenced by one political party or another but there was a perception of there being a tory at the top, a friend of boris. yes, we have to recognise that all governments since at least the 19605 have put in political appointments to the bbc. labour did it and of course they had a growing control of the bbc during the iraq war and the hutton inquiry. at one point chris patten, former chairman of the conservative party was chairman of the bbc. i think that's unhealthy and those days should now go because the perception is that these people are linked to politicians and prime

ministers. part of the selling point of richard sharp was that he got on with borisjohnson. that now is rather a more dodgy proposition than it was at the time when he was appointed and it would be much betterfor appointed and it would be much better for licence fee payers if the bbc chairman was a person who is not tied to a political party, someone who is defending the licence fee payers, that's theirjob. it's not because they are mates with boris johnson, rishi sunak, keir starmer oranyone johnson, rishi sunak, keir starmer or anyone else. johnson, rishi sunak, keir starmer or anyone else-— or anyone else. that will carry on for uuite or anyone else. that will carry on for quite some — or anyone else. that will carry on for quite some time, _ or anyone else. that will carry on for quite some time, it _ or anyone else. that will carry on for quite some time, it is - or anyone else. that will carry on for quite some time, it is a - for quite some time, it is a political appointment because it is in the bbc charter. the government could now say _ in the bbc charter. the government could now say that _ in the bbc charter. the government could now say that they _ in the bbc charter. the government could now say that they will - in the bbc charter. the government could now say that they will run - in the bbc charter. the government could now say that they will run a i could now say that they will run a process that is independent, fair and open and they will not make a political appointment. the problem at moment as you have a weird hybrid where it is actually political appointment but they have this process run by public appointments people so it is neither one thing nor the other but in the end it is a political appointment. i think what they should do is say, let's have an

impartial appointments process is a public appointment and choose the best person who can defend licence fee payers. best person who can defend licence fee -a ers. ., , best person who can defend licence fee payers-— best person who can defend licence fee .a ers. ., , ., “ fee payers. roger mosey, former bbc executive, thank _ fee payers. roger mosey, former bbc executive, thank you. _ fee payers. roger mosey, former bbc executive, thank you. you _ fee payers. roger mosey, former bbc executive, thank you. you can - executive, thank you. you can comment on this. get in touch stop more coming up from richard air in a second. let me tell you that coverage of the breaking news that bbc chairman richard sharp has resigned is continuing on bbc news. we will keep the discussion going here on 5 live and bbc sounds. welcome to fuel strenuous here on bbc news. he will resign as the chairman. —— welcome to viewers joining us here. richard sharp accepts he breached the governments code for public appointments which he says the report has found. take a listen. ,., ., ., ., .,

listen. good morning, iwould like to thank adam _ listen. good morning, iwould like to thank adam heppinstall- listen. good morning, iwould like to thank adam heppinstall and - listen. good morning, iwould likej to thank adam heppinstall and his team for the diligence and professionalism they have shown in compiling the report today. his view is that what i did breach the government code for public appointments he states very clearly that a bridge does not necessarily invalidate an appointment. indeed, i have always maintained the breach was inadvertent and not material which the facts he lays out a substantiate. the secretary of state has consulted with the bbc board support that view. nevertheless, i have decided that it is right to prioritise the interests of the bbc. i feel this matter may well be a distraction from the corporation is good work right i remain in post until the end of my time and i have therefore this morning resigned as therefore this morning resigned as the bbc chairman to the secretary of state and to the board. it was proposed to me that i stay on as

chairperson until the end ofjune while the process to appoint my successor is undertaken and i will of course do that in the interests of course do that in the interests of the corporations stability and continuity. let me turn to the events of today's report. when i saw it in december 2020 to introduce the cabinet secretary to mr blyth, i did so in good faith, with the best of intentions and i did so with the sole purpose of ensuring all relevant rules were followed. i am pleased that adam heppinstall supports the fact my involvement in these matters as he states was accordingly very limited. after extensive work, he states his words that he is happy to record that he has seen no evidence and more committee to say i played any part whatsoever in facilitation, arrangement, orfinancing of a loan to the former prime minister. during

my conversation with the cabinet secretary on the lith of december 2020, i reminded him of the fact that i was in the bbc appointment process. i've believed as a result of that conversation that i have been removed from any conflict or perception of conflict. i understood this recusal to be absolute. this was my error. in my subsequent interview with the appointments panel i wish with the benefit of hindsight this potential perceived conflict of interest was something i had considered to mention. i would like once again to apologise for that oversight, inadvertent though it was and for the destruction these events have caused the bbc. for more than 20 years i have devoted time and energy to public service whether at the institute of cancer research, the royal academy of arts, the financial policy committee of the bank of england or as an economic adviser to the treasury working to

protect british business including the creative industries during the pandemic. for more than two years now i have seen the beating heart of the bbc up close and for all its complexities, successes and occasional failings, complexities, successes and occasionalfailings, it is complexities, successes and occasional failings, it is an incredible dynamic and world beating creative force not matched anywhere. a5 chair, i have acted at all times in the public interest and for the betterment of the bbc and i am proud to have thought that the recent return of government funding for the bbc world service, i have been active in commissioning independent thematic issues on touchstone issues and have championed the importance of the bbc as an impartial and well funded public service broadcaster. to cheer this incredible organisation has been an honour, the bbc contribution to national life is immense, its people are hard—working and absolutely brilliant and preserving and enhancing it really matters. thank you. that

preserving and enhancing it really matters. thank you.— matters. thank you. that was the statement — matters. thank you. that was the statement from _ matters. thank you. that was the statement from richard _ matters. thank you. that was the statement from richard sharp, i matters. thank you. that was the | statement from richard sharp, he will remain in post we are told untiljune and he said he is quitting to avoid a distraction to the bbc. if you are just quitting to avoid a distraction to the bbc. if you arejustjoining us you can see the news we are following that the bbc chairman richard sharp has resigned, this relates to the inquiry looking at the circumstances of his appointment and his role in the £800,000 loan guarantee to the then prime minister borisjohnson. that report finds he breached tomb rules while being interviewed for the rule, failing to disclose to potential conflicts of interest. we can speak to one of our newest correspondence, naomi, so what does the report tell us? it is what does the report tell us? it is uuite a what does the report tell us? it is quite a dense _ what does the report tell us? it 3 quite a dense report but the most essential point which we will come to straightaway as this paragraph in the key findings which is the successful candidate in this case mr richard sharp failed to disclose potential perceived conflicts of

interest to the panel when he was being interviewed for the position of bbc chairman. that is really what this entire investigation boils down to. further down in the report on about page 16 there is a section which says it is the duty of the appointee to disclose any potential perceived conflict of interest. we should say this report does not pass a judgment on whether there was a conflict of interest, they make that quite clear in this area. it is really more about whether it could be perceived to be a conflict of interest and it mentions in this paragraph, that second matter you brought up which was a meeting that was allegedly arranged between the dem cabinet secretary simon case and a canadian businessman helping then prime minister arrange that loan for £800,000. this report finds in the paragraph that was not properly declared. —— then then cabinet

secretary. richard sharp maintains he did not have involvement in facilitating the loan but he accepts he did not declare these conflicts of interest, potential conflicts of interest. going further down, the section that matters, richard sharp acknowledges he should have ensured the panel was aware of that meeting ijust mentioned. between simon case and some blyth, plenty more to pick out from the report but those are the essential findings from the public appointments watchdog at the moment. ., ., ~ ., public appointments watchdog at the moment. . ., 4' ., , ., public appointments watchdog at the moment. ., ., ~ ., , ., ., ., ~ moment. naomi, i know you will look throuuh moment. naomi, i know you will look through that — moment. naomi, i know you will look through that and _ moment. naomi, i know you will look through that and bring _ moment. naomi, i know you will look through that and bring us _ moment. naomi, i know you will look through that and bring us any - through that and bring us any details but for now, thank you. it isjust details but for now, thank you. it is just worth saying, richard sharp defending any breach, he says it was inadvertent and no material and he says he is simply resigning to prioritise the interests of the bbc but let's bring you some background to how we got here. how these events unfolded. richard sharp was appointed chairman of the bbc in

february 21. at the start of this year the sunday times reported he was accused by a group of mp5 of failing to declare his involvement in securing that £800,000 loan for borisjohnson. just in securing that £800,000 loan for boris johnson. just weeks in securing that £800,000 loan for borisjohnson. just weeks before the boris johnson. just weeks before the then borisjohnson. just weeks before the then prime minister recommended richard shaw for the bbcjob. his appointment was investigated over his relationship with the then prime minister and there was added pressure for him to resign amid the gary lineker impartiality row last month. richard sharp denies any wrongdoing. let's speak to george parker political editor at the financial times. and not to get through. in the statement we have had from the bbc board and the chairman. this is all about perception, that is ultimately the problem here, perception of who was involved with what and when. and that has ultimately led to his departure?—

that has ultimately led to his dearture? , ~ , that has ultimately led to his dearture? , a _ departure? yes. as the report by adam heppinstall _ departure? yes. as the report by adam heppinstall says, - departure? yes. as the report by i adam heppinstall says, perception is everything and ribbon day richard sharp and that the perception at least to be given that he got the job as bbc chairman because he helped in some form to arrange a financial service for boris johnson and people would think he only got thejob and people would think he only got the job because he and people would think he only got thejob because he helped the boris johnson with his finances and i think in the end richard sharp acknowledges that was obstruction to the bbc and the independence of the bbc and i think he took the right decision. . ., ., ., , decision. once again throws the s-aotliht decision. once again throws the spotlight on _ decision. once again throws the spotlight on the _ decision. once again throws the spotlight on the appointments l spotlight on the appointments process and many people may be unfamiliar with it, the idea that the government of the day can choose the government of the day can choose the bbc chairman, the bbc that prides itself on distance from government so will there be more pressure for that arrangement to change? pressure for that arrangement to chance? .,,, _ pressure for that arrangement to chanie? ,, , pressure for that arrangement to chance? _ , ., ., change? possibly, it is not a new phenomenon _ change? possibly, it is not a new phenomenon by— change? possibly, it is not a new phenomenon by any _ change? possibly, it is not a new phenomenon by any stretch i change? possibly, it is not a new phenomenon by any stretch of i change? possibly, it is not a new| phenomenon by any stretch of the imagination for a prime minister to

appoint a political ally to the chairmanship of the bbc. you could reekie that is a function of democracy, someone is appointed, who reflects the might of the country at any given time, in the same way i suppose the us president is appointed and appoints representatives of the supreme court but i think a lot of people will be surprised by the fact this job has become a political appointment, the fight this episode has put it into the spotlight could create pressure for may be the next chairman to come from a slightly less overtly political background than richard sharp who was a political donor and worked as a special adviser to boris johnson so playing very much inside the political tent. taste johnson so playing very much inside the political tent.— the politicaltent. we have had reaction from _ the politicaltent. we have had reaction from the _ the politicaltent. we have had reaction from the labour i the politicaltent. we have had| reaction from the labour party, the political tent. we have had i reaction from the labour party, as you would expect, listen pal of the shadow culture secretary saying the breach at the rose bowl richard sharp has told on total damage to the bbc reputation and says its

independence has been seriously undermined as a result of the conservative sleaze and cronyism and she goes on to talk about 13 years of tory is doing everything they can to defend themselves and their mates but i wonder how this will be viewed in downing street? n but i wonder how this will be viewed in downing street?— in downing street? i have 'ust been s-ueakin to in downing street? i have 'ust been speaking to someone i in downing street? i have just been speaking to someone inside - in downing street? i have just been l speaking to someone inside downing street and as you can imagine they are not keen to be anywhere near this story. it plainly is embarrassing for rishi sunak because richard sharp is an old friend of his, a former boss and mentor of rishi sunak at goldman sachs, the investment bank so there is a personal connection but obviously these events take place in the boris johnson era. rishi sunak is very keen to draw a divide between himself and the kind of government being run now, transparency and accountability, ethical good behaviour at the heart of what he says he wants to do but nevertheless it is embarrassing. speaking to other people and governments, it's

quite interesting they think richard sharp did do the right thing, that he was right to step down but you can understand why the labour party is making political capital of this because it reminds people of the so—called sleaze that enveloped the borisjohnson government so—called sleaze that enveloped the boris johnson government and so—called sleaze that enveloped the borisjohnson government and also the idea that the bbc,... criticised in a way that viewers and listeners find impartial. the in a way that viewers and listeners find impartial-— find impartial. the gary lineker e - isode find impartial. the gary lineker episode could _ find impartial. the gary lineker episode could have _ find impartial. the gary lineker episode could have been i find impartial. the gary lineker episode could have been the i find impartial. the gary lineker. episode could have been the final straw, richard sharp noticeably silent when it came to any sort of public comment on the actions of gary lineker. is it fair to say that could have been the final straw? the bbc could have been the final straw? tue: bbc certainly could have been the final straw? tta: bbc certainly looked immobilised during the whole gary lineker saga and as you say the fact richard sharp did not appear to take a episode, it was bad for the bbc and

it must be as not being properly managed, possibly the final straw but some people including at the bbc who say it is good to have a chairman with good connections to the government because the government has to oversee a process of renewing the charter every so often and someone with good connections to the government can be helpful but nevertheless in the end richard sharp as he acknowledged effectively was damaged goods and his continuing presence was a distraction and i think he had to go. distraction and i think he had to to, . ., distraction and i think he had to go. what happens next? the bbc statement says _ go. what happens next? the bbc statement says we _ go. what happens next? the bbc statement says we understand i go. what happens next? the bbc| statement says we understand the government is moving swiftly to appoint a new chairman of the bbc in line with the charter terms but will anything change in this appointment process? t anything change in this appointment rocess? ., , anything change in this appointment rocess? ,, , ., anything change in this appointment rocess? ~' , ., ., ., process? i think they will go out of the wa i process? i think they will go out of the way i imagine _ process? i think they will go out of the way i imagine to _ process? i think they will go out of the way i imagine to choose i process? i think they will go out of i the way i imagine to choose someone who appears to be slightly more independent politically, i do not think they will go down the route of appointing someone unnecessarily who appointing someone unnecessarily who a party donor, they will have had

some advance warning of this and i am sure richard sharp will have told the government of his intentions, his lawyers have been trying to water down some of the conclusions over the last week or so the government has been able to think about this and as i mentioned, the fact some government sources tell me they think it was right to do that, had he notjumped, he might have been pushed. you say richard sharp intends to stay on untiljune but i think the government will want to fill the vacancy quickly and move on from this rather sorry saga. taste fill the vacancy quickly and move on from this rather sorry saga.- from this rather sorry saga. we are crateful from this rather sorry saga. we are grateful for — from this rather sorry saga. we are grateful for your _ from this rather sorry saga. we are grateful for your thoughts, - from this rather sorry saga. we are grateful for your thoughts, thank . grateful for your thoughts, thank you. george parker, political editor at the financial times and as you expect much more reaction to this news breaking within the last hour, the bbc pages up and running on the website but let's speak to rob watson in the newsroom. we were hearing many questions now to help this process works, we will come to those in a second but what is so

enlightening about this report is that it throws a spotlight on how this appointment is made on the role and responsibility of the chairman so explain for those who may not know, what does the chairman do? th know, what does the chairman do? t�*t broad terms, the chairman is essentially responsible for the bbc independence and its direction and planning. that is not to say the chairman is telling me what to say or telling you what to say, he is not a hands—on day—to—day appointment so it is incredibly important everyone watching this weather here or globally should understand that. he is not in any way the editor in chief, it is more of a guarantor of bbc independence and someone who oversees the work of the board on the board, it is like the board on the board, it is like the board of any large corporation. there to make sure the people who run the bbc day to day or doing it properly. another thought that i

throughout, this whole issue about the importance of impartiality at the importance of impartiality at the bbc, our absolute number one selling point, the idea is also those people who are appointed into executive positions like the chairman, even if they have and clearly that was in his case, strong links to particular politicians and political parties, like us, when we walk through the door and come into work they leave any political opinions or affiliations behind and assume bbc mantle of impartiality so that sounded like preaching there but i think it is worth saying! absolutely worth underlining and i guess testament to that the fact that the bbc were reported extensively on the good, the bad and ugly of this throughout the day on its own networks under are waves but you touched on the political reaction and we were talking to george about it and we have heard from lucy powell, she says a test caused untold damage to the bbc

reputation. and says it has seriously undermined its independence. we have had a response from the bbc board say they are sad that he is living and his decision to stand down but we want to put on record our thanks to richard who has been a valued and respected colleague and they said this in no way undermines the worki has done but it's embarrassing for bbc, isn't it? tt but it's embarrassing for bbc, isn't it? , ' . ., but it's embarrassing for bbc, isn't it? , m ., it? it is difficult and embarrassing are not for— it? it is difficult and embarrassing are not for the _ it? it is difficult and embarrassing are not for the first _ it? it is difficult and embarrassing are not for the first time, - it? it is difficult and embarrassing are not for the first time, the i are not for the first time, the opposition party and others have said this is a very difficult moment for the bbc, regardless of the particularities of this investigation and the fact it seems to have cleared richard sharp of anything sinister, as more a lack of reporting but others have said regardless of this, it does not look great for the bbc to have as its chairman, despite the idea of what i said about executives distancing themselves from previous political relations, it does not look great to have someone in that role who has

had that close link to britain's political parties in particular politicians. it has happened before and maybe it's going to happen again but as you say, i guess the bbc view of how you deal with these things is it is uncomfortable, we are not responsible for the board or the chairman, we carry on reporting as best we can and as impartially as we can and hopefully that will reassure critics but you know, it's the case, i remember when this story first broke, a diplomat i used to know backin broke, a diplomat i used to know back in the day when i was a un correspondent for the bbc, a diplomat from a country a long way from here sent me a whatsapp message saying what is going on and what does this say about bbc independence and its perception of independence so clearly there is an issue and the bbc will no doubt fight hard over the months and years ahead to reassure everyone we are impartial, we were impartial and we will be impartial. we were impartial and we will be im artial. ., .,

we were impartial and we will be imartial. ., ., , . , ., impartial. that would perception will come up _ impartial. that would perception will come up time _ impartial. that would perception will come up time and _ impartial. that would perception will come up time and again i impartial. that would perception i will come up time and again today because perception matters and uk political history is littered with similar cases where people have been perceived to do the wrong thing, later cleared but it is the perception that leads to the downfall?— perception that leads to the downfall? , �* �* , ., downfall? yes, the bbc is in an amazingly _ downfall? yes, the bbc is in an amazingly exposed _ downfall? yes, the bbc is in an amazingly exposed position, i amazingly exposed position, especially for global audiences. you cannot overstate the central role that the bbc place in the sort of daily political cultural life of this country. it maybe doesn't have quite the kind of massive total audience share that it once did but it is the place where people discuss politics and it has always had and often had chairmen and executives with close links to political parties and one politicians and industry politicians across the board say they love the bbc and recognise this fantastic cultural rule that the place here and abroad but of course when other politicians

get any scrutiny they are quite often a bit less praiseworthy of the bbc in those moments than they are now! the other problem the bbc has faced and this goes beyond the issue of the chairman, it is more general, as we have lived here in the uk and abroad in a more polarised world, just being impartial looks partial to people who can have a very strong view about things, whether it is brexit, oranything view about things, whether it is brexit, or anything else so this is going to sound like and a bit of an apology for the bbc but it's true the role it faces in terms of its governance and its perception are certainly very challenging at a time where we live in a divided world and a divided country where my goodness people have strong opinions! realize people have strong opinions! really come to speak _ people have strong opinions! really come to speak to _ people have strong opinions! really come to speak to you, _ people have strong opinions! really come to speak to you, thank - people have strong opinions! really come to speak to you, thank you. it is worth at this point amid all of the noise and lots of responses and reaction to the resignation of the bbc chairman to hear from himself,

he has made a statement, this morning so take a listen. the view of adam heppinstall _ morning so take a listen. the view of adam heppinstall is _ morning so take a listen. the view of adam heppinstall is that - morning so take a listen. the view of adam heppinstall is that while l morning so take a listen. the view of adam heppinstall is that while i did breach the governance code for public appointments he states very clearly that a breach does not necessarily invalidate an appointment. indeed, i have always maintained the breach was inadvertent and not material which the facts he lays out substantiate. the secretary of state has consulted with the bbc board who support that view. nevertheless, i have decided that it view. nevertheless, i have decided thatitis view. nevertheless, i have decided that it is right to prioritise the interests of the bbc and i feel this matter may be a distraction from the corporations good work were i to remain in post until the end of my term and therefore i have this morning resigned as a bbc chairman to the secretary of state on the board. ., ., , to the secretary of state on the

board. . . , , ., , board. that was the statement, 'ust a short part — board. that was the statement, 'ust a short part of fl board. that was the statement, 'ust a short part of that i board. that was the statement, 'ust a short part of that that i board. that was the statement, 'ust a short part of that that we i board. that was the statement, 'ust a short part of that that we had i a short part of that that we had from the outgoing chairman of the bbc, richard shaw. worth pointing out as of the reaction comes in we have heard from the culture secretary lucy fraser, who has written to the bbc chairman saying thank you for your letter notifying me of your decision to resign, i understand and respect your decision and she says you have stated the bbc is a great national institution over the past 100 years touching the lives of everyone in the uk and i want to take the opportunity to thank you for your work and leadership you provided as chairman of the bbc. she says a champion for what a strong ppc can achieve not only for audiences at home but also for the bbc contribution to the economy and global soft power. she says i know you are held in high regard by the board and you have clearly demonstrated your commitment to public service and i especially applaud the work you did during the pandemic stop your decision to step

down in the wider interests of the corporation is further testament to that commitment. just quickly about next steps, she talks about the appointment of the next chairman and says i have spoken to the board and they have proposed you stay in place until the board meeting on the 27th ofjune and she says i have accepted this and would like to thank you for your continued service in assisting and ensuring an orderly and smooth transition takes place. we will move to launch a process to identify and appoint a permanent new chairperson. confirmation that the departure date of the chairman of the bbc until the 27th ofjune of this year. at which point a new transition process and a new appointment should have been made. that is the statement from lucy fraser, the culture secretary. lots of reaction coming in to that news this morning. the chairman of the bbc will stand down. let's speak now to david silva to our media

correspondent in the newsroom. lots of reaction coming in. and once again i will put it to you, the idea that perception matters and in this case it means the chairman must go. that is what has been concluded, all sorts of interesting elements to does, what with the breach is actually about because this looks like a complicated business about to and from inside number ten downing street but it is here on the live page, specific points, the key thing is who gave him the job? page, specific points, the key thing is who gave him thejob? not page, specific points, the key thing is who gave him the job? not the page, specific points, the key thing is who gave him thejob? not the bbc but the prime minister, boris johnson who made the appointment and the key issues here or at the fact richard sharp was working at number 11 downing street with rishi sunak at the time had a meeting with boris johnson telling him he would apply for thejob before he did, that has been deemed to be a potential conflict of interest and the second one, before he was interviewed he was going to make the introduction between sam blythe and simon case

the cabinet secretary, essentially telling boris johnson the cabinet secretary, essentially telling borisjohnson he was involved in some way with something that may end up solving the financial headaches are boris johnson, another clear breach of the governance code. however, none of this is actually new, there was an mp5 commons select committee report that went into this and said these were serious errors ofjudgment and he should have been open and honest and throughout it all, richard sharp was hanging on saying it was inadvertent, i accept that was an error and i accept that has brought some embarrassment to the bbc but he has fought it all along however it appears the last 2a hours or so there was a change of mind and on and we get the resignation today. look at the bbc board statement, yes, they say they are sad to see him go but certainly not saying he should not be going on there were conversations had with higher people in the bbc over the last 2a hours that seem to have helped make up his

mind. ., ~ i. that seem to have helped make up his mind. ., ~ ,, . that seem to have helped make up his mind. ., ~ i. . ., mind. david, thank you so much for now. just mind. david, thank you so much for now- just to — mind. david, thank you so much for now. just to reiterate _ mind. david, thank you so much for now. just to reiterate the _ mind. david, thank you so much for now. just to reiterate the news i mind. david, thank you so much for now. just to reiterate the news you | now. just to reiterate the news you can see on screen, the bbc chairman richard sharp has resigned and will stand down at the end ofjune. a new chairman will be put in place and full details of that is in the bbc news website and we will have the headlines for you at the top of the hour. this is promising news, we are bringing you live coverage of the bbc chairman resigning, richard sharp, after a report fancy patch the governance code for public appointments. he will stand down at the end ofjune after reading the findings of the banister adam heppinstall. the report was ordered after it emerged he played a role in facilitating an £800,000 loan guarantee for borisjohnson before guarantee for boris johnson before being guarantee for borisjohnson before

being recommended for the influential role overseeing the independence of the broadcaster so let's listen to what he had to say when he announced he was standing down. t when he announced he was standing down. ., ~' when he announced he was standing down. ., ~ ., when he announced he was standing down. ., 4' ., . ~' when he announced he was standing down. ., ~ ., ., ~ ~ ., down. i would like to thank adam heppinstall _ down. i would like to thank adam heppinstall and _ down. i would like to thank adam heppinstall and his _ down. i would like to thank adam heppinstall and his team - down. i would like to thank adam heppinstall and his team for i down. i would like to thank adam heppinstall and his team for the l heppinstall and his team for the diligence and professionalism they have shown in compiling the report. adam heppinstall '5 view is that while i breach the governance code for public appointments he states very clearly that aph does not necessarily an appointment. indeed, i maintain the ph was inadvertent and not material which the facts he lays out substantiate. the secretary of state has consulted with the bbc board support that view. nevertheless, i have decided that it is right to prioritise the interests of the bbc and i feel this is right to prioritise the interests of the bbc and ifeel this matter is right to prioritise the interests of the bbc and i feel this matter it may well be a distraction from the corporations could work were i to remain in post until the end of my

term. i have therefore this morning resigned as the bbc chair to the secretary of state and the board. it was proposed to me that i stay on as chair until the end ofjune while the process to appoint my successor is undertaken and i will of course do that in the interests of the corporations stability and continuity. let me turn to the events that are subject to the report today. when i saw it in december 2020 to introduce the cabinet secretary to mr blyth, i did so in good faith, with the best of intentions and i did so with the sole purpose of ensuring all relevant rules were being followed. i am pleased that adam heppinstall supports the fact my involvement in this matter is that he states was accordingly very limited. after extensive work, he states his words that he is happy to record that he has seen no evidence and more committee to see them i say i played

any part whatsoever in facilitation, arrangement or financing of a loan to the former prime minister. during my conversation with the cabinet secretary on december the lith 2020, i reminded him of the fact i was in the bbc appointment process. i believed as a result of the conversation that i had been removed from any conflict or perception of conflict. i understand this recusal to be absolute. this was my error. in my subsequent interview with the appointments panel i wish with the benefit of hindsight this potential perceived conflict of interest was something i had considered to mention. i would like once again to apologise for that oversight, inadvertent though it wasn't for the destruction these events have caused the bbc. --

destruction these events have caused the bbc. —— inadvertent though it was for the distraction. i have served in a number of public appointment roles including the creative industries during a pandemic. for more than two years creative industries during a pandemic. for more than two years now i have seen the beating heart of now i have seen the beating heart of the bbc up close and for all its the bbc up close and for all its complexities, successes and complexities, successes and occasional failings occasional failings complexities, successes and occasionalfailings bbc complexities, successes and occasionalfailings bbc complexities, successes and occasional failings bbc is an incredible dynamic and world beating complexities, successes and occasional failings bbc is an incredible dynamic and world beating creative force not matched anywhere. creative force not matched anywhere. a5 chair i have acted at all times a5 chair i have acted at all times in the public interest and for the in the public interest and for the betterment of the bbc. i am proud to betterment of the bbc. i am proud to have fought for the recent return of have fought for the recent return of government funding for the world government funding for the world service, i have been active in service, i have been active in commissioning independent thematic commissioning independent thematic reviews of touchstone issues and i reviews of touchstone issues and i have championed the importance of have championed the importance of the bbc as a well funded and the bbc as a well funded and impartial bbc broadcaster and impartial bbc broadcaster and

teacher this incredible organisation has been an honour and the teacher this incredible organisation has been an honour and the contribution of contribution of the bbc took national life is immense, its people hard—working and absolutely ha rd—working and absolutely brilliant hard—working and absolutely brilliant and preserving and enhancing it really matters. thank you. let's