good morning. thank you forjoining us. it is the nation was microphone in on five live, bbc sounds, bbc two, bbc news and iplayer. abbey listen, look and think. are teachers right to strike? school's out again for many — another day of teachers�* strikes in england. today it's members of the national education union walking out in this long dispute over pay, workload and wellbeing that started in february.

any strike by teachers, a huge knock—on effect. most state school teachers in england had a 5% rise in 2022, and a 3% rise was recommended from this year. but the unions want above—inflation increases, and to ensure pay rises don't come out of schools' budgets. they argue they are playing catch up on pay over the last more than a decade. the government says it's "a fair and reasonable offer" and that schools would receive an extra £2.3 billion over the next two years. are you a pupil or parent off school and work today? how are the strikes affecting you? do you agree with what the teachers are doing? teachers — please get in touch, too — tell me why this matters. this morning — are teachers right to strike?

a pay deal for hundreds—of—thousands of nhs staff in england is expected to be settled later. ministers will meet health bosses and representatives from m unions this lunchtime. but some workers — including nurses — are still opposed to the offer, which includes a 5% rise this year and a lump sum of at least £1600. thousands of teachers from the national education union are holding another one day strike in england as part of their dispute over pay. many schools are expected to partially close with vulnerable children and pupils doing exams given priority. food prices in the uk continued to rise last month, despite a drop in wholesale costs, but the trade body, the british retail consortium, thinks price increases should now have peaked. a google engineer — who's a key figure in the development of artificial

intelligence — is warning about the dangers of the technology. geoffrey hinton — who's announced his retirement — says part of him now regrets his work and he's worried about how powerful ai could become. are teachers right to strike? it will be interesting to test public opinion on this right now. it is notjust maths and economic teachers pointing out the pay offer is not fully funded so school budgets will be affected, the government says it has put a lot into education, a lot of new money into education, a lot of new money in education and on the other side they say because inflation... let me take my landlord. the other side say there is a lot of issues with inflation and school maintenance,

but, an extra 2.3 billion over the next two years is what the government is putting into and all four unions have rejected the offer and say it is not fully funded and as i mentioned, schools would have to make cuts elsewhere. the education secretary said the offer was no longer on the table, so the decision on pay would now be made by an independent pay review body, and so it goes on and so it goes on and on. kevin, join secretary of the national education union, how are you this morning?— national education union, how are you this morning? good morning, i am well. you this morning? good morning, i am well- michelle — you this morning? good morning, i am well. michelle in _ you this morning? good morning, i am well. michelle in coventry, _ you this morning? good morning, i am well. michelle in coventry, a _ you this morning? good morning, i am well. michelle in coventry, a quick - well. michelle in coventry, a quick one from yom _ well. michelle in coventry, a quick one from you. what _ well. michelle in coventry, a quick one from you. what are _ well. michelle in coventry, a quick one from you. what are your- well. michelle in coventry, a quick i one from you. what are your feelings one from you. what are your feelings on this as a mum, i presume? yes. one from you. what are your feelings on this as a mum, i presume?- on this as a mum, i presume? yes, i have a 14-year-old _ on this as a mum, i presume? yes, i have a 14-year-old on _ on this as a mum, i presume? yes, i have a 14-year-old on strike, - on this as a mum, i presume? yes, i have a 14-year-old on strike, well, l have a 14—year—old on strike, well, he's _ have a 14—year—old on strike, well, he's not _ have a 14—year—old on strike, well, he's not on — have a 14—year—old on strike, well, he's not on trike but off through the strikes — he's not on trike but off through the strikes today. i have two others in schooh _ the strikes today. i have two others in school. he has got his gcses next year so _ in school. he has got his gcses next year so i _ in school. he has got his gcses next year so i think this is day five of

him _ year so i think this is day five of him having _ year so i think this is day five of him having days. he has had work to set at _ him having days. he has had work to set at home — him having days. he has had work to set at home which is good and he is getting _ set at home which is good and he is getting on_ set at home which is good and he is getting on with the, i don't need to be over_ getting on with the, i don't need to be over her— getting on with the, i don't need to be over her shoulder the whole time. anyway— be over her shoulder the whole time. anyway i_ be over her shoulder the whole time. anyway i think covid has given them training _ anyway i think covid has given them training that they know they can get on with the — training that they know they can get on with the work when they are doing it at home _ on with the work when they are doing it at home. they have got to be heard _ it at home. they have got to be heard and — it at home. they have got to be heard and i_ it at home. they have got to be heard and i guess it's the only way to he _ heard and i guess it's the only way to he heard — heard and i guess it's the only way to be heard. and it's working because _ to be heard. and it's working because everybody is talking about it. because everybody is talking about it~ they— because everybody is talking about it. they work hard, they work longer than 9-3_ it. they work hard, they work longer than 9—3 o'clock when the around because _ than 9—3 o'clock when the around because they are preparing stuff, marking — because they are preparing stuff, marking things, getting these chitdren— marking things, getting these children ready for exams, getting these _ children ready for exams, getting these children ready for every year they are _ these children ready for every year they are going to go into, they have to make _ they are going to go into, they have to make sure all of these children have _ to make sure all of these children have got— to make sure all of these children have got their sheets ticked to say they are _ have got their sheets ticked to say they are at — have got their sheets ticked to say they are at the level they are and if they— they are at the level they are and if they are — they are at the level they are and if they are not, noticing they need extra _ if they are not, noticing they need extra help — if they are not, noticing they need extra help and things like that, there _ extra help and things like that, there is— extra help and things like that, there is a — extra help and things like that, there is a lot of things that go under— there is a lot of things that go under the _ there is a lot of things that go under the radar that you probably don't _ under the radar that you probably

don't realise how much work is involved — don't realise how much work is involved in— don't realise how much work is involved in a teacher's day, and yes, _ involved in a teacher's day, and yes, they— involved in a teacher's day, and yes, they have six weeks off in the holidays, _ yes, they have six weeks off in the holidays, but i can guarantee most of those _ holidays, but i can guarantee most of those teachers don't take the six weeks. _ of those teachers don't take the six weeks, they are still preparing and making _ weeks, they are still preparing and making sure things are ready for when _ making sure things are ready for when the — making sure things are ready for when the children go back, and it's a big _ when the children go back, and it's a big thing — when the children go back, and it's a big thing to have 30 plus any class, — a big thing to have 30 plus any class, where you have to make sure all of _ class, where you have to make sure all of these — class, where you have to make sure all of these children are doing the same _ all of these children are doing the same thing at the same time, even though— same thing at the same time, even though you — same thing at the same time, even though you have different levels in the class — though you have different levels in the class. sol though you have different levels in the class. so i definitely think they— the class. so i definitely think they need more pay, give them the pay, definitely. ifeel like i'm on the fence — pay, definitely. ifeel like i'm on the fence in a way because i dontm _ the fence in a way because i dontm |t— the fence in a way because i don't. .. ., , the fence in a way because i don't- - -_ the fence in a way because i don't... ., , ., ~' don't. .. it does not sound like it. i don't don't. .. it does not sound like it. i don't really _ don't. .. it does not sound like it. i don't really want _ don't. .. it does not sound like it. i don't really want to _ don't. .. it does not sound like it. i don't really want to take - don't. .. it does not sound like it. i don't really want to take sides l i don't really want to take sides because — i don't really want to take sides because it's not me that the striking _ because it's not me that the striking but i'm supporting them by keeping _ striking but i'm supporting them by keeping my child at home, but there are so— keeping my child at home, but there are so many— keeping my child at home, but there are so many other things that are striking _ are so many other things that are striking at— are so many other things that are striking at the moment that i think everyhody— striking at the moment that i think everybody needs to be heard and at the end _ everybody needs to be heard and at the end of— everybody needs to be heard and at the end of the day, if the petrol prices _ the end of the day, if the petrol prices and — the end of the day, if the petrol prices and fuel prices had not gone

up, prices and fuel prices had not gone up. i— prices and fuel prices had not gone up. i don't — prices and fuel prices had not gone up, i don't think we would be in the situation _ up, i don't think we would be in the situation in — up, i don't think we would be in the situation in the first place. the argument _ situation in the first place. the argument is — situation in the first place. the argument is the _ situation in the first place. tie: argument is the petrol prices and fuel prices will go down and inflation will lessen and so there will not be the same financial pressure on the schools later in the year but we will see, as ever. we've also got roberto in sheffield. it would be interesting if you addressed your points straight to kevin, joint general secretary of the national education union. roberta, meet kevin. what would you like to say? roberta, meet kevin. what would you like to sa ? ~ ., , ., like to say? well, as a retired teacher. _ like to say? well, as a retired teacher, and _ like to say? well, as a retired teacher, and i— like to say? well, as a retired teacher, and i appreciate - like to say? well, as a retired teacher, and i appreciate all | like to say? well, as a retired i teacher, and i appreciate all the work you do, you are overburdened, but to me, teaching is a vocation and the children should not suffer for anything, any reason at all, and many, many years ago we had other

things to do which were taking dinner monies and collecting it in, doing the dinner at register every day, and this was not part of teaching but we had to do it. what we did was we refused, we refused to do that, we didn't do dinner duty, we walked out of school at dinnertime, and the upshot of that was we stopped having to do it and it brought down a nanny send, and i'm sure, kevin, you can think of other things to do that will make the government set up and think, rather than by refusing to do things, ratherthan rather than by refusing to do things, rather than penalising the children that you teach.— children that you teach. kevin, penalising _ children that you teach. kevin, penalising the _ children that you teach. kevin, penalising the children? - children that you teach. kevin, penalising the children? so, i children that you teach. kevin, l penalising the children? so, the oint is, penalising the children? so, the point is. the _ penalising the children? so, the point is, the children _

penalising the children? so, the point is, the children are - penalising the children? so, the point is, the children are being. point is, the children are being penalised _ point is, the children are being penalised everyday by the shortage of teachers. the government is going to miss _ of teachers. the government is going to miss its _ of teachers. the government is going to miss its target for secondary teacher— to miss its target for secondary teacher recruitment this year by, according — teacher recruitment this year by, according to the nfa er, may be by 50%. _ according to the nfa er, may be by 50%. and _ according to the nfa er, may be by 50%, and that means there are classes — 50%, and that means there are classes around the country that are not being _ classes around the country that are not being taught on a regular basis. i've not being taught on a regular basis. i've been_ not being taught on a regular basis. i've been talking with people about a physics _ i've been talking with people about a physics a—level class i've just become — a physics a—level class i've just become aware of where the children are only— become aware of where the children are only talked for half the timetabled lessons. the rest of the timetabled lessons. the rest of the time into— timetabled lessons. the rest of the time into self—study. that much more disruptive _ time into self—study. that much more disruptive than few days of strike action _ disruptive than few days of strike action |— disruptive than few days of strike action. ., �* ., ., , action. i don't agree that it is. you are letting _ action. i don't agree that it is. you are letting these - action. i don't agree that it is. you are letting these children | action. i don't agree that it is. . you are letting these children out of school, and you don't know who is looking after them while they are out of school, parents have to work as well, and the upshot of that is, some of these... i've worked in a variety of skills from private schools to dockside comprehensive

and i know that certain children from certain backgrounds will probably end up in trouble because they have days off school, and they are not being in school where at least their freedom is contained when there is no adult to look after them. education isn'tjust teaching lessons, it's the whole social education as well. you know that. don't get me a kevin, believe ifi if i think it is but i think that fair but i do not think that strike action in this case is fair on the children. i action in this case is fair on the children. ,., children. p...4c-. see—important, j; on children. ability e as important, 5 j; on children. ability to s—important, j; on children. ability to calliportant, j 3; on children. ability to call strike it, 5 3; on the ability to call strike action, we had — the ability to call strike action, we had a — the ability to call strike action, we had a huge vote of our members to reject— we had a huge vote of our members to reject the _ we had a huge vote of our members to reject the current government offer

because _ reject the current government offer because it's too low an unfunded, and because our members working in schools— and because our members working in schools now. — and because our members working in schools now, if he retired a little, our members and school know there is schools now, if he retired a little, our memi: everyd school know there is schools now, if he retired a little, our memi: every weekyol know there is schools now, if he retired a little, our memi: every week —— know there is schools now, if he retired a little, our memi: every week —— you v there is schools now, if he retired a little, our n retired ery week —— you v there is schools now, if he retired a little, our n retired a �*y week —— you v there is schools now, if he retired a little, our n retired a �*y we while. ou v there is schools now, if he retired a little, our n retired a �*y we while. in v there is been retired a little while. in london — been retired a little while. in london we are hearing of primary schools _ london we are hearing of primary schools that cannot fill vacancies of classes — schools that cannot fill vacancies of classes where since december, since _ of classes where since december, since christmas when the teachers life, since christmas when the teachers life. they — since christmas when the teachers life, they have not been able to replace — life, they have not been able to replace with a full—time teacher. we know _ replace with a full—time teacher. we know schools up down the country where they have stopped teaching computer science because they cannot computer science teachers. this get computer science teachers. this is disruption to our children's education _ is disruption to our children's education every day, the is disruption to our children's educe actr every day, the is disruption to our children's educe act on ery day, the is disruption to our children's educe act on it. ' day, the is disruption to our children's educe act on it. the , the is disruption to our children's educe 5 act n it. the , the is disruption to our children's educe 5 act on�*. the , the is disruption to our children's educe 5 act on�*. i gilliane is disruption to our children's educe a a( she �*. i gilliane is disruption to our children's educe a a( she is gilliane is disruption to our children's educe a a( she is gil on e is disruption to our children's educe a a( she is gil on the media, 2 we should be asking her how justify see disruption in every week because we education every week because we don't _ education every week because we don't have — education every week because we don't have enough teachers. they l don't have enough teachers. they % pay— don't have enough teachers. they have �* pay decline, not have let teacher pay decline, not 'ust have let teacher pay decline, not just compared the prices, but

other professions, and for other professions, and for teacher er professions, and targets for teacher recruitment year—on—year. targets for teacher recruitment year—oi worse hit targets for teacher recruitment year—oi wors needs to invest in say... i don't think the many would say... i don't think the fact that you _ many would say... i don't think the fact that you are _ many would say... i don't think the fact that you are saying _ many would say... i don't think the fact that you are saying there - fact that you are saying there aren't enough teachers to —— to take fact that you are saying there aren't er out 1 teachers to —— to take fact that you are saying there aren't er out of eachers to —— to take fact that you are saying there aren't er out of school. to —— to take fact that you are saying there aren't er out of school is) —— to take fact that you are saying there aren't er out of school is going > take fact that you are saying there aren't er out of school is going to ike fact that you are saying there aren't er out of school is gt don't ike fact that you are saying there aren't er out of school is gt don't get make the situation better? don't get me wrong, i have of me wrong, i have been out of education for a but i fully 55:5�*" f�* 5 “5 e) ! f,“ ,, ~ , , . ”a " and sympathise 55:5�*" f�* 5 “5 b) ! f,“ 7— ~ , 5 . 775 ~ and sympathise with 55:5�*" ea 5 “5 b) e f,“ 7— ~ , 5 . 775 ~ and sympathise with the i had five workload, i had five responsibilities, which i did not workload, i had five res paid bilities, which i did not workload, i had five res paid extra ;, which i did not workload, i had five res paid extra for, 1ich i did not workload, i had five res paid extra for, by| i did not workload, i had five res paid extra for, by the id not workload, i had five res paid r is ra for, by the tamara"? workload, i had five res paid r is still... by the fififft”’ , workload, i had five res paid r is still... by thl had at ..5, workload, i had five res aidris still... b th ., ., in ”5:75.-. workload is still... i also had a class of children _ workload is still... i also had a

class of children to _ workload is still... i also had a class of childre get _ workload is still... i also had a class of childre get paid - workload is still... i also had a class of childre get paid of for. we did not get paid for any of the extra, but extra, but the last thing i the extra, but the last thing i 52? ., reall , _, the extra, but the last thing i really valuable everyone. both really valuable contributions. jenny everyone. both really valuable contr is tions. jenny -: h , ,.5 .. everyone. both really valuable contr is a>ns. jenny -: h , ..5 .. everyone. both really valuable contr is a lot. jenny -: h , ..5 .. everyone. both really valuable contr is a lot ofenny -: h , ,., .. everyone. both really valuable contr is a lot ofarguments, fl , ..5 ~ there is a lot of arguments, kevin in the press today, lots �* people in the press today, lots of people attacking the other side, the telegraph reported that one of the authors of this book lessons and organising is a member of the ne you's national executive organising is a member of the ne you's national executi\ the previously said, called the conservatives greedy tory blank blank blank blank blank and yes, i

he i yes, i executive, . he i yes, i exe but re, . he i yes, i exe but that| he i yes, i exe but that is ie i yes, i | do about the current government. [ about the current government. i don't 532553 5 55 555 5 5— every word in but i 7 every word in but i think endorse every word in it but i think it's really— endorse every word in it but i think it's really important to say this government is letting our children down~ _ government is letting our children down. they have presided over a situation — down. they have presided over a situation where teacher recruitment and retention has reached a crisis point, _ and retention has reached a crisis point, where schools cannot find physics — point, where schools cannot find physics teachers or maths teachers, they were _ physics teachers or maths teachers, they were banned in teaching science, _ they were banned in teaching science, missing targets and that is what our— science, missing targets and that is what our industrial action is about, winning _ what our industrial action is about, winning a _ what our industrial action is about, winning a pay rise and making sure it is fulty— winning a pay rise and making sure it is fully funded in our school so the pay— it is fully funded in our school so the pay rise _ it is fully funded in our school so the pay rise does not impact negatively on the learning experience in the school. that is exclusively— experience in the school. that is exclusively what our strike action is about — exclusively what our strike action is about. ., , ., ., ,, , is about. lots of other issues we hear from _ is about. lots of other issues we hear from teachers _ is about. lots of other issues we hear from teachers about - is about. lots of other issues we | hear from teachers about working conditions and recently much talk about 0fsted, i'm sure there are

general issues as well which are coming into play what are informing people's decisions. find coming into play what are informing people's decisions.— coming into play what are informing people's decisions. and the question of 0fsted are — people's decisions. and the question of 0fsted are workload, _ people's decisions. and the question of 0fsted are workload, but - people's decisions. and the question of 0fsted are workload, but the - of 0fsted are workload, but the dispute — of 0fsted are workload, but the dispute is — of 0fsted are workload, but the dispute is around pay and funding. that is— dispute is around pay and funding. that is particular, is a? jenny in essex, what would you like to say to kevin? ,., ., ., essex, what would you like to say to kevin? ., , ., , kevin? good morning. i personally feel like, kevin? good morning. i personally feel like. yes. _ kevin? good morning. i personally feel like, yes, the _ kevin? good morning. i personally feel like, yes, the teacher- kevin? good morning. i personally feel like, yes, the teacher should l feel like, yes, the teacher should be remunerated for all the hard work they do do for our children, however, like you are all pointing out, covid has disrupted our children's education massively, i have two daughters, one is at home with me today about to go to the gym and my younger child is at school, so it has affected one of my children out of the two, they have had a few arguments last night why one should go to school on the other shouldn't, but i feel like it is unfair on teachers, they should be valued so much more, however it is

affecting my child, my child's education, covid has set her children back so much, the government should be fully invested in our children right now, in our children's education, the future depends on our children and effects are day—to—day. i work from home predominantly, mostly on the phone, so it is very destructive for me as a parent. in terms of the funding for teachers and for teachers to be remunerated, without being insulted, and should be paid what is payable, the government should definitely put something on the table that is worth value. this is the fifth day that my child is missing and i think she is going to miss another day in a few weeks as well. all in all the government... weeks as well. all in all the government. . ._ weeks as well. all in all the government... �* ., , , government... before kevin because i want to put — government... before kevin because i want to put a — government... before kevin because i want to put a note _ government... before kevin because i want to put a note that... _ government... before kevin because i want to put a note that... say - government... before kevin because i want to put a note that... say that, i want to put a note that... say that, speak to kevin before he has to go

off and do some support work elsewhere. off and do some support work elsewhere-— off and do some support work elsewhere. ., , ., . ., elsewhere. can i respond to clear after wasyes _ elsewhere. can i respond to clear after wasyes but _ elsewhere. can i respond to clear after wasyes but i _ elsewhere. can i respond to clear after wasyes but i want _ elsewhere. can i respond to clear after wasyes but i want to - elsewhere. can i respond to clear after wasyes but i want to put - elsewhere. can i respond to clear. after wasyes but i want to put sarah to ou as after wasyes but i want to put sarah to you as well- _ after wasyes but i want to put sarah to you as well. hi, _ after wasyes but i want to put sarah to you as well. hi, kevin. _ after wasyes but i want to put sarah to you as well. hi, kevin. i'm - after wasyes but i want to put sarah to you as well. hi, kevin. i'm very i to you as well. hi, kevin. i'm very much with — to you as well. hi, kevin. i'm very much with the _ to you as well. hi, kevin. i'm very much with the last _ to you as well. hi, kevin. i'm very much with the last caller, - to you as well. hi, kevin. i'm very much with the last caller, my - much with the last caller, my daughter is currently doing her gcses, is already behind in school with the fact they are not where they should be with their coursework, still going through it months before exams, the striker is affecting them again, they are in school but need... my daughter is saying they don't know where the children are within the class, it is pointless. i totally support where you are with regards to that part number one priority for me is that

people who are taking their gcses and how it will effect them and how it has affected them from covid, as well? , , ,, , ~ , it has affected them from covid, as| well?_ i think well? yes, gcses, a-levels. i think both points — well? yes, gcses, a-levels. i think both points are _ well? yes, gcses, a-levels. i think both points are very _ well? yes, gcses, a-levels. i think both points are very important. - well? yes, gcses, a-levels. i think| both points are very important. this generation— both points are very important. this generation of children have been so badiy— generation of children have been so badly affected by covid and that's why we _ badly affected by covid and that's why we are calling for this investment in their education right now _ investment in their education right now the — investment in their education right now. the government appointed sir kevin _ now. the government appointed sir kevin collins is the covid recoveries are but he had to resign because _ recoveries are but he had to resign because the government would not fund the _ because the government would not fund the things that he was suggesting we supported. the government is letting these children down~ _ government is letting these children down. �* ., government is letting these children down. . ., ., government is letting these children down. ., ., ':: government is letting these children down. ., ':: , ., down. asking for about 10 billion, wasn't he? _ down. asking for about 10 billion, wasn't he? we — down. asking for about 10 billion, wasn't he? we are _ down. asking for about 10 billion, wasn't he? we are trying - down. asking for about 10 billion, wasn't he? we are trying to - down. asking for about 10 billion, - wasn't he? we are trying to minimise the disruption — wasn't he? we are trying to minimise the disruption to _ wasn't he? we are trying to minimise the disruption to gcses _ wasn't he? we are trying to minimise the disruption to gcses and _ wasn't he? we are trying to minimise the disruption to gcses and a-levelsl the disruption to gcses and a—levels with the _ the disruption to gcses and a—levels with the dispensations today, and what i'm — with the dispensations today, and what i'm hearing, some don't like the strike — what i'm hearing, some don't like the strike action, others are more supportive. — the strike action, others are more supportive, but they are all saying the government should invest in

their— the government should invest in their children, they are all saying they are — their children, they are all saying they are sympathetic on some level of the _ they are sympathetic on some level of the demands we are putting, whether— of the demands we are putting, whether they agree with the strike, and i_ whether they agree with the strike, and i really— whether they agree with the strike, and i really urge parents to get in touch— and i really urge parents to get in touch with — and i really urge parents to get in touch with their mp and site to their— touch with their mp and site to their mp — touch with their mp and site to their mp we want the government to invest— their mp we want the government to invest in_ their mp we want the government to invest in this generation of children _ invest in this generation of children. sometimes you hear ministers _ children. sometimes you hear ministers standing out there saying when _ ministers standing out there saying when the _ ministers standing out there saying when the economy improves we will invest— when the economy improves we will invest in— when the economy improves we will invest in the future, but that is no good _ invest in the future, but that is no good for— invest in the future, but that is no good for this generation, they are the ones — good for this generation, they are the ones who have a huge teacher shortage, — the ones who have a huge teacher shortage, a — the ones who have a huge teacher shortage, a huge workload for teachers — shortage, a huge workload for teachers arising from that, the government really needs to start investing — government really needs to start investing in our children, funding and schools and a better pay rise for teachers so we get enough young people _ for teachers so we get enough young people coming into the classroom where _ people coming into the classroom where we — people coming into the classroom where we can hold on to the ones we've _ where we can hold on to the ones we've got — where we can hold on to the ones we've got-— we've got. thank you, i know you have to go _ we've got. thank you, i know you have to go but — we've got. thank you, i know you have to go but get _ we've got. thank you, i know you have to go but get a _ we've got. thank you, i know you have to go but get a you - we've got. thank you, i know you have to go but get a you to - we've got. thank you, i know you have to go but get a you to come | we've got. thank you, i know you - have to go but get a you to come on. cheers. jenny, i can hear you are in something of a dilemma. i cheers. jenny, i can hear you are in something of a dilemma.— something of a dilemma. i think eve one something of a dilemma. i think everyone has — something of a dilemma. i think everyone has a _ something of a dilemma. i think everyone has a valid _ something of a dilemma. i think everyone has a valid point. -

something of a dilemma. i think everyone has a valid point. it. something of a dilemma. i think everyone has a valid point. it is| something of a dilemma. i think| everyone has a valid point. it is a bit embarrassing, i'm still having to pay extra for my children to go on trips otherwise the trips are not funded, the letters were sent out, it's embarrassing to read, unfortunately the parents, we are unable to fund the children's trip unless you are able to pay a certain contribution towards it and it feels like we are funding on behalf of the government, the government should be funding for these educational trips for our children as well. i feel like personally they don't seem to care about our kids. they are happy to sort of contribute and fund wars and fund political situations that doesn't involve our country and they are very quick to help everyone but this is a necessity, this is an emergency for our children, they have to invest it, the disruption in my children's education has been, it is being absolutely crazy. 0n my children's education has been, it is being absolutely crazy. on top of that witty covid where children have

been unwell and winter illnesses, i've had to go into the doctors and getting sick notes and take my children to the doctors to provide evidence that they are not feeling well and that as many teachers come back and see your children should not be absent but how do they justify the absence of teachers going on strike so they can be re—enumerated west bank that is their own personal? you re-enumerated west bank that is their own personal?— re-enumerated west bank that is their own personal? you are making lots of interesting _ their own personal? you are making lots of interesting arguments - their own personal? you are making lots of interesting arguments on - lots of interesting arguments on both sides here. you are putting it all out. let me bring katie in newcastle. andrew in greenford. good morning. thank you to roberta, the retired teacher. that was interesting. seder in worcester, likewise. katie, how old are you? 18. taking a—levels. likewise. katie, how old are you? 18. taking a-levels._ 18. taking a-levels. heading confidently _ 18. taking a-levels. heading confidently towards - 18. taking a-levels. heading confidently towards them - 18. taking a-levels. heading confidently towards them at | 18. taking a-levels. heading i confidently towards them at the

momentrelatively confidently. taste momentrelatively confidently. we have momentrelatively confidently. 5 have never had an exam cycle before because of covid, this is all really new to us. because of covid, this is all really new to us— because of covid, this is all really newto us. ., ., , ., ., new to us. that was really tough on ou cu s, new to us. that was really tough on you guys. wasn't — new to us. that was really tough on you guys, wasn't it? _ new to us. that was really tough on you guys, wasn't it? definitely, i new to us. that was really tough on you guys, wasn't it? definitely, and i think you guys, wasn't it? definitely, and i think people _ you guys, wasn't it? definitely, and i think people my — you guys, wasn't it? definitely, and i think people my age _ you guys, wasn't it? definitely, and i think people my age sort - you guys, wasn't it? definitely, and i think people my age sort of- you guys, wasn't it? definitely, and i think people my age sort of thinkl i think people my age sort of think we have assistance, we are just a few year groups that relate last. i have noticed behaviour being really difficult to manage, not through the fault of the teachers but there has never been that kind of all the way through school life for a few students, so the burden on teachers becomes even more because there are so many students without the knowledge of how to operate in school and people who don't know how to approach exams. i sympathise with the people on strike, even though it means we only have six days left in school before exams start, which is obviously really frustrating. it's not the teachers are frustrated with, all of given are not in my

entire ia years of education is just with this, students who have been struggling, teachers, for intervention of own errors, fun class equipment with their own money and i've only known teachers to be ridiculously dedicated to what they do, coming in when they are ill, coming in, isympathise do, coming in when they are ill, coming in, i sympathise with them. even last year in year 12 we were wearing masks in school, had covid destruction, it's obviously incredibly difficult but i do sympathise with them. incredibly difficult but i do s mathise with them. . ., sympathise with them. what you say about behaviour _ sympathise with them. what you say about behaviour is _ sympathise with them. what you say about behaviour is interesting, i about behaviour is interesting, because of the destruction and lack of continuity, there has been a deterioration in some people's behaviour, which is made even more challenge —— challenging for teachers. i challenge -- challenging for teachers-— challenge -- challenging for teachers. ., ., . teachers. i have noticed coming back into school as _ teachers. i have noticed coming back into school as an _ teachers. i have noticed coming back into school as an older _ teachers. i have noticed coming back into school as an older student, i teachers. i have noticed coming back into school as an older student, it i into school as an older student, it is a respect issue, not to say it is the fault of the children but because they don't really understand

the kind of respect system any school, i rememberwhen the kind of respect system any school, i remember when i was in year ten or ii school, i remember when i was in year ten or 11 i'd see six form, and i would respect them but now we have younger kids who are very verbally, quite verbally abusive sometimes, don't have any sense of respecting other people. teachers are dealing with it but you can tell it is taking a real tall because these kids have only ever known a lot of them education in their own home or at the secondary education in their own home. where they are in control of what they can do, get up and go to the toilet with they wanted, have a break when they wanted and a lot of them have taken being in school any more rigid system, they have found it very difficult. as an older student, it is interesting to notice, but has also meant teachers have had to take on even more. i have had to take on even more. i have a history teacher who is also head of year and he works so hard but is ahead of year for year 11,

difficult your group anyway, but especially because they have come out of covid as teenagers. i notice it in general. behaviour outside of school, it takes a real soul and because they don't have those examples. that is another thing teachers are having to take their time into, helping these kids actually learn how to be people again. actually learn how to be people aaain. ., , . ., ., again. loud, yet. what about the fact ou again. loud, yet. what about the fact you did _ again. loud, yet. what about the fact you did mention, _ again. loud, yet. what about the fact you did mention, we - again. loud, yet. what about the fact you did mention, we have i again. loud, yet. what about the i fact you did mention, we have peter in nottingham coming up, a striking feature andrew in greenford, a cover supply teacher, thanks andrew and peter. but katie, you mention you have experienced and observed some teachers spending their own money and staff to make things possible. not even some comments are given. my entire life it is a given if you spoil the equipment you have in school, you know that will come out of the teacher's money. it is very

much, knowledge, every single student knows teachers put in hours and hours of the and so much of their own money funding the classroom and intervention time they have, the printing, as much as they can that they can do with their own money. it isjust can that they can do with their own money. it is just common can that they can do with their own money. it isjust common knowledge. we have had teachers, without voices, now they are a bit more aware of their own health like everyone is. it is a given, i would say. as someone who has been in education their whole life, it is a given that teachers will be putting in errors of their own work, money, just not that rare at all. it is more the average. everyone who is an education is aware of exactly how much extra teachers put in and i would say it's putting people off in my age you are obviously going to university for degrees and chosen career path, we talk very openly about how difficult it would be to be a teacher and it puts people off

choosing that as a career, which... a great contribution. what a—levels are you doing? history, music and english language. are you doing? history, music and english language-— are you doing? history, music and english language. sounds great. all the with them. — english language. sounds great. all the with them. as _ english language. sounds great. all the with them. as much _ english language. sounds great. all the with them. as much of - english language. sounds great. all the with them. as much of i've i english language. sounds great. all| the with them. as much of i've have supported these strikes is a police officer, i cannot support these, it is undervalued and who are standing up is undervalued and who are standing up for us? i is undervalued and who are standing upfor us? i have is undervalued and who are standing up for us? i have had to take leave to look after my children because of all this today. that is a text from clare and liverpool. deliveries are in rugby, peter nottingham, andrew... peter, why are you streaking? it andrew. .. peter, why are you streaking?— streaking? it was interesting listenint streaking? it was interesting listening to _ streaking? it was interesting listening to your— streaking? it was interesting listening to your previous i listening to your previous contributor because as you can hear my voice is a little bit croaky at the moment. the reason i'm striking is because of funding, like your previous contributor said. schools are basically supported in resources by teachers. if classroom is, if

teachers did not invest in their own classrooms, schools would be a massively different place from the ones they are now. we spent an inordinate amount of our own money resourcing the classrooms because the funding isn't there. the funding isn't there for the individual schools, the funding isn't there for the individual teachers. i just mention to your researcher and producer, you mention this independent pay body, the government keeps mentioning it, is not independent, it's appointed by government ministers, the secretary of state gives them parameters within which they can operate, but what an independent person, again mentioned by kevin courtney earlier in your programme, sir kevin collins, when he suggested how much investment was needed to be made in schools, notjust for a covid catch about other things as well, that was about other things as well, that was a specific remit. they refused. he

had to resign. the one time the school teachers pay review body suggested more than the government had given in their parameters, the government ignored it. the government ignored it. the government chooses when to accept the recommendations of their so—called independent body, and they decide when they are going to reject them as well. the other, and i would make is, as i said to your researcher earlier, the retired teacher earlier on making so many comments is very out of touch with what happens in schools at the moment. the things she suggested, taking the school dinner registers, that still happens, that hasn't stopped happening, one of the other unintended consequences of the failure to fund school teachers salaries is that teachers who are towards the top of the pay scales, they tend to be gradually, by

unscrupulous head teachers and school leaders, gradually eased out of the classroom to be replaced... unscrupulous head teachersyes, head teachers have a budget set, when salaries are not funded... thea;r teachers have a budget set, when salaries are not funded... they have to decide salaries are not funded. .. they have to decide whether— salaries are not funded... they have to decide whether or _ salaries are not funded... they have to decide whether or not _ salaries are not funded... they have to decide whether or not they - salaries are not funded... they have to decide whether or not they want i to decide whether or not they want to decide whether or not they want to have a teacher who is at the top of the pay scale or a teacher who costs tens of thousands of pounds less at the bottom of the pay scale. and those of the decisions that are made, so you end up with teachers at the top of the pay scale who are stuck in positions in schools where they can't get a job at another school because that head teacher has a limited budget to spend on their staff, and so they go for the cheaper option, and that is not beneficial to the children either. by by the way, kevin collins, he recommended a £15 billion programme, i said it was ten or 12, off the top

of my head. and of course what was provided for that covid catch—up programme and what was suggested was a lot less than that. so, as you rightly said. 0livia, good morning to you, teacher, are you striking? i am. i have been on strike every strike day we have had, i am a member of the neu but this afternoon i am going into teach, i have a year 13 class, and most of my colleagues are going into teacher exam classes, year 11, year are going into teacher exam classes, year11,year13, are going into teacher exam classes, year 11, year 13, because although there has been this kind of short—term, long—term debate, we had to accept that the short—term disruption is worth it to try to limit the long—term disruption of theissues limit the long—term disruption of the issues that are brought about by the issues that are brought about by the recruitment and retention crisis, but the students are going on study leave in two weeks, and the moral push is to make sure they have

as much time with their teachers right now as they can, which is why we are giving their lunchtime sessions, after—school sessions, teachers are coming in in their holidays to give these students the extra time that they need, which is a previous caller has said, is obviously all unpaid, so i am going in this afternoon and my students are aware that i am breaking the strike but they are appreciative, it feels awkward, it is a moral dilemma, but most of my colleagues are doing the same thing, for the exam classes.— are doing the same thing, for the exam classes. ., , ., �* , _, exam classes. course, that's coming u - , exam classes. course, that's coming up. gcses. — exam classes. course, that's coming up, gcses, a-levels, _ exam classes. course, that's coming up, gcses, a-levels, as— exam classes. course, that's coming up, gcses, a-levels, as you - exam classes. course, that's coming up, gcses, a-levels, as you say, i exam classes. course, that's coming| up, gcses, a-levels, as you say, you up, gcses, a—levels, as you say, you used the phrase a moral choice which you feel beholden to the people that you feel beholden to the people that you are educating. is this going to become, if there are more strikes, increasingly to good for you? . in become, if there are more strikes, increasingly to good for you? , in a wa , the increasingly to good for you? , in a way. the ones _ increasingly to good for you? , in a way, the ones after _ increasingly to good for you? , in a way, the ones after this _ increasingly to good for you? , in a way, the ones after this will - increasingly to good for you? , in a way, the ones after this will be i way, the ones after this will be easier because once the year 11s and year 13s are on exam leave, they are

not in school anymore, so the school being closed doesn't affect those students any more. but the moral choice has been the thread which has gone through all of this, and when i have been to meetings of fellow union members, locally and in my school, the discussion has been the morality of it, particularly when it comes to funding and the fact that, you know, the government offered this 5% increase but it wasn't fully funded and i think for most teachers if you offered, you know, 5% underfunded or 7%, sorry, 5% funded or 7% underfunded, we would go for the lesser amount if it meant that the lesser amount if it meant that the schools were getting the money, because we don't want to see even more taken away from our students. the fact that if schools are having to give us a 5% or a 7% pay increase but they are not getting any more money, we know that those cuts are

going to come out of other provisions for the school, there are going to be fewer school trips, a reduced curriculum, fewer subjects, and that is not fair on the students. bigger class sizes... i completely understand parents are frustrated, the disruption to parents of having childcare and those sorts of things, the long—term impact on their children and on other children's education is the bigger moral issue and that is why i think most of us are on strike. 0livia, thank you very much indeed, department for education spokesperson said, any strike action is hugely damaging, we have made a fair and reasonable offer to teachers recognising their hard work and commitment. thank to the further £2 billion we are investing in our schools next year, school funding will be at its highest level in history. some great calls coming up. are the teachers right to strike? it is 9.3a.

and here is the news, from nick hatfield. thank you, nicky, good morning. a key meeting will be held later between the government and unions which could lead to a pay deal for hundreds of thousands of health workers in england. but the royal college of nursing and unite have both rejected an offer of a 5% rise for this year and a cash lump sum. teachers in england with the national education union are holding another day of strike action over pay. many schools are partially closed, with priority given to vulnerable pupils and those sitting exams. bp has reported better than expected profits for the first quarter of the year. it made £a billion, which is down by around a billion pounds compared to last year. the trade body the british retail

consortium says the cost of a food shop should start to come down in the next few months. food inflation rose again last month despite a drop in the prices that supermarkets pay for produce. time for the sport. newly crowned world champion luca brecel says a snooker in europe is going to explode after becoming the first player from the mainland explode after becoming the first playerfrom the mainland europe explode after becoming the first player from the mainland europe to win at the crucible theatre last night. he was in tears after holding off mark selby�*s fightback to win by a treat 18—15. dean smith says he thought his leicester side could have been better last night after they drew 2—2 with everton in the premier league, leaving leicester hovering above the drop zone on goal difference, while everton stay 19th, a point from safety. you and says arsenal women are hurting but proud after their ten champions semifinal exit in front of a record crowd for a known international women's game in the uk. wolfsburg won 5—a on aggregate. novak djokovic will be able to play at the us open this

year after the united states confirmed international travellers will no longer need to be vaccinated against covid from later this month. say, "play bbc news," to most smart speakers to most smart speakers and you will get the latest headlines and in—depth reports on international, national and local stories that matter to you. for your news, when you want it, just say, "play bbc news." more of our wonderful listeners and viewers coming up with their fascinating opinions, we really appreciate it when you get in touch, it is what makes this happen. from ten this morning...

these dogs, these terrifying, massive dogs that have emerged recently, i am a dog lover, but... xl bully: dangerous dogs? pet or problem? an xl bully — a crossbreed between the american pit bull terrier and a type of bulldog, xl referring to the dog's size. some weigh as much as 150le and stand up to 23 inches tall. today, the mum of a ten—year—old boy who died after being attacked by an xl bully has said we need a proper rethink of how we licence breeders and dog owners. i encountered on the other day when i encountered on the other day when i was walking my beloved labrador and west highland terrier on clapham common, and it was a classic case of, you know, based on the end of a chain, and then there was the dog, too. or is thatjust snobbery? i don't know. my little westie were

terrified and was like a mouse beside him and stuff. the guy said, she wouldn't hurt a fly. i'm sure she wouldn't hurt a fly. i'm sure she wouldn't. we got her to protect as an attack people who break in... and so, i thought... so, as an attack people who break in... and so, ithought... so, we as an attack people who break in... and so, i thought... so, we are asking, xl bullies, dangerous dogs? that is coming up at ten. andrew in greenford, good morning, andrew. katie taylor, primary school teacher. brett in malvern, hello, how you doing? i’m teacher. brett in malvern, hello, how you doing?— teacher. brett in malvern, hello, how you doing? i'm all right, i am 0k, nicky- — how you doing? i'm all right, i am 0k, nicky- go _ how you doing? i'm all right, i am 0k, nicky. go on, _ how you doing? i'm all right, i am 0k, nicky. go on, you _ how you doing? i'm all right, i am 0k, nicky. go on, you sound i how you doing? i'm all right, i am i 0k, nicky. go on, you sound primed, what is ok, nicky. go on, you sound primed, what is your— 0k, nicky. go on, you sound primed, what is your point? _

0k, nicky. go on, you sound primed, what is your point? 0k, _ 0k, nicky. go on, you sound primed, what is your point? 0k, erm, - 0k, nicky. go on, you sound primed, i what is your point? 0k, erm, £40,000 a ear, what is your point? 0k, erm, £40,000 a year. two _ what is your point? 0k, erm, £40,000 a year, two teachers _ what is your point? 0k, erm, £40,000 a year, two teachers living _ a year, two teachers living together, let's say, £80,000 a year, if that is the average, i mean obviously when you are a young teacher, when you first start, i think maybe you are on around £30,000 a year, when you are 25 or something like that. i am a pensioner and i know a lot of pensioners, i mean, the pension, two pensioners, i mean, the pension, two pensioners on two pensions is £20,000 a year. i mean, i think it's a joke. £20,000 a year. i mean, i think it's ajoke. ijust £20,000 a year. i mean, i think it's a joke. ijust don't really understand why people say that they can't live, albeit, you know, nobody is doing very well at the moment and one appreciates how hard teachers work and how appreciative of what they do for children, but i don't think this is the way to do anything for them but his positive. but needs must, for them but his positive. but needs must. most — for them but his positive. but needs must, most teachers _ for them but his positive. but needs must, most teachers go, _ for them but his positive. but needs must, most teachers go, as - for them but his positive. but needs must, most teachers go, as we i for them but his positive. but needs| must, most teachers go, as we have been hearing, way above and beyond, and they at the heart of the future

of our society. and they at the heart of the future of our society-— of our society. absolutely, and i think, my _ of our society. absolutely, and i think, my point _ of our society. absolutely, and i think, my point is _ of our society. absolutely, and i think, my point is that - of our society. absolutely, and i think, my point is that i - of our society. absolutely, and i think, my point is that i think i think, my point is that i think £a0,000 a year as an average, and perhaps a little bit less in england, a little bit more in scotland, you know, there is only so much of the pie that can go around. when you consider that the public purse is providing thejob when you consider that the public purse is providing the job security of teachers, of nurses, of very many people in the public sector, i mean, you know, most of i know have sort of been in the private sector, where you don't have the luxury of going on strike, and if you do, you probably lose yourjob. but i think at the heart of this, really, is, what are the children doing today, and the children's parents, and how are they coping?— are they coping? let's that to andrew. are they coping? let's that to andrew hi. _ are they coping? let's that to andrew. hi, andrew, - are they coping? let's that to andrew. hi, andrew, what i are they coping? let's that to i andrew. hi, andrew, what would you say to brett? i

andrew. hi, andrew, what would you say to brett?— say to brett? i am a cover supply teacher and — say to brett? i am a cover supply teacher and strangely _ say to brett? i am a cover supply teacher and strangely i _ say to brett? i am a cover supply teacher and strangely i am i say to brett? i am a cover supply teacher and strangely i am also i say to brett? i am a cover supplyj teacher and strangely i am also a pensioner— teacher and strangely i am also a pensioner so _ teacher and strangely i am also a pensioner so i _ teacher and strangely i am also a pensioner so i can— teacher and strangely i am also a pensioner so i can see _ teacher and strangely i am also a pensioner so i can see both- teacher and strangely i am also a pensioner so i can see both sides teacher and strangely i am also a i pensioner so i can see both sides of the coin _ pensioner so i can see both sides of the coin i_ pensioner so i can see both sides of the coin iam — pensioner so i can see both sides of the coin. i am actually— pensioner so i can see both sides of the coin. i am actually back- pensioner so i can see both sides of the coin. i am actually back at i pensioner so i can see both sides of the coin. i am actually back at the l the coin. i am actually back at the grammar— the coin. i am actually back at the grammar school _ the coin. i am actually back at the grammar school which— the coin. i am actually back at the grammar school which i— the coin. i am actually back at the grammar school which i attended | the coin. i am actually back at the . grammar school which i attended as the coin. i am actually back at the i grammar school which i attended as a pupil grammar school which i attended as a pupit 50 _ grammar school which i attended as a pupil 50 years — grammar school which i attended as a pupil 50 years ago _ grammar school which i attended as a pupil 50 years ago. and _ grammar school which i attended as a pupil 50 years ago. and they- grammar school which i attended as a pupil 50 years ago. and they need i pupil 50 years ago. and they need cover— pupil 50 years ago. and they need cover supervisor _ pupil 50 years ago. and they need cover supervisor teachers - pupil 50 years ago. and they need cover supervisor teachers badly i cover supervisor teachers badly nowadays — cover supervisor teachers badly nowadays because _ cover supervisor teachers badly nowadays because a _ cover supervisor teachers badly nowadays because a lot - cover supervisor teachers badly nowadays because a lot of i cover supervisor teachers badly i nowadays because a lot of teachers have been— nowadays because a lot of teachers have been leaving _ nowadays because a lot of teachers have been leaving the _ nowadays because a lot of teachers have been leaving the profession i have been leaving the profession because — have been leaving the profession because of— have been leaving the profession because of the _ have been leaving the profession because of the fact _ have been leaving the profession because of the fact they- have been leaving the profession because of the fact they have i have been leaving the profession l because of the fact they have been underpaid — because of the fact they have been underpaid and _ because of the fact they have been underpaid and undervalued. i because of the fact they have been underpaid and undervalued. at- because of the fact they have been underpaid and undervalued. at thej underpaid and undervalued. at the end of— underpaid and undervalued. at the end of the — underpaid and undervalued. at the end of the day, _ underpaid and undervalued. at the end of the day, education- underpaid and undervalued. at the end of the day, education is- end of the day, education is absolutely— end of the day, education is absolutely crucial— end of the day, education is absolutely crucial and i i end of the day, education is absolutely crucial and i seel end of the day, education is. absolutely crucial and i see the amount— absolutely crucial and i see the amount of— absolutely crucial and i see the amount of work— absolutely crucial and i see the amount of work teachers i absolutely crucial and i see the amount of work teachers put . absolutely crucial and i see thel amount of work teachers put in, absolutely crucial and i see the i amount of work teachers put in, in schools. _ amount of work teachers put in, in schools. i— amount of work teachers put in, in schools. i have _ amount of work teachers put in, in schools, i have been _ amount of work teachers put in, in schools, i have been in _ amount of work teachers put in, in schools, i have been in a - amount of work teachers put in, in schools, i have been in a couple i schools, i have been in a couple of different _ schools, i have been in a couple of different schools _ schools, i have been in a couple of different schools in _ schools, i have been in a couple of different schools in recent - schools, i have been in a couple of different schools in recent years i different schools in recent years and they— different schools in recent years and they are _ different schools in recent years and they are certainly _ different schools in recent years and they are certainly not i and they are certainly not appreciated _ and they are certainly not appreciated what - and they are certainly not appreciated what they. and they are certainly not| appreciated what they are and they are certainly not i appreciated what they are doing there _ appreciated what they are doing there i— appreciated what they are doing there isaw— appreciated what they are doing there isawa _ appreciated what they are doing there. i saw a person— appreciated what they are doing there. i saw a person who i appreciated what they are doing i there. i saw a person who worked 59 hours, _ there. i saw a person who worked 59 hours. that— there. i saw a person who worked 59 hours. that is— there. i saw a person who worked 59 hours, that is exactly— there. i saw a person who worked 59 hours, that is exactly it, _ there. i saw a person who worked 59 hours, that is exactly it, that- there. i saw a person who worked 59 hours, that is exactly it, that is- hours, that is exactly it, that is no lie — hours, that is exactly it, that is no lie and _ hours, that is exactly it, that is no lie and at _ hours, that is exactly it, that is no lie. and at the _ hours, that is exactly it, that is no lie. and at the end - hours, that is exactly it, that is no lie. and at the end of- hours, that is exactly it, that is no lie. and at the end of the i hours, that is exactly it, that is. no lie. and at the end of the day hours, that is exactly it, that is- no lie. and at the end of the day we have _ no lie. and at the end of the day we have situations _ no lie. and at the end of the day we have situations in _ no lie. and at the end of the day we have situations in life _ no lie. and at the end of the day we have situations in life where - no lie. and at the end of the day we have situations in life where people| have situations in life where people are being _ have situations in life where people are being paid— have situations in life where people are being paid 200 _ have situations in life where people are being paid 200 thousand i have situations in life where people l are being paid 200 thousand pounds have situations in life where people i are being paid 200 thousand pounds a week to _ are being paid 200 thousand pounds a week to play— are being paid 200 thousand pounds a week to play football _ are being paid 200 thousand pounds a week to play football and _ are being paid 200 thousand pounds a week to play football and yet - are being paid 200 thousand pounds a week to play football and yet we - week to play football and yet we can't _ week to play football and yet we can't have — week to play football and yet we can't have a _ week to play football and yet we can't have a teacher _ week to play football and yet we can't have a teacher on - week to play football and yet we can't have a teacher on a - week to play football and yet we - can't have a teacher on a reasonable wage, _ can't have a teacher on a reasonable wage, a _ can't have a teacher on a reasonable wage, a fair, — can't have a teacher on a reasonable wage, a fair, reasonable _ can't have a teacher on a reasonable wage, a fair, reasonable wage - can't have a teacher on a reasonable wage, a fair, reasonable wage for. wage, a fair, reasonable wage for the work— wage, a fair, reasonable wage for the work they— wage, a fair, reasonable wage for the work they are _ wage, a fair, reasonable wage for the work they are actually - wage, a fair, reasonable wage for the work they are actually doing l wage, a fair, reasonable wage forl the work they are actually doing to help our— the work they are actually doing to help our children _ the work they are actually doing to help our children to _ the work they are actually doing to help our children to have - the work they are actually doing to help our children to have a - the work they are actually doing to help our children to have a better. help our children to have a better career— help our children to have a better career in — help our children to have a better career in the _ help our children to have a better career in the future. _ help our children to have a better career in the future. i'm - help our children to have a better career in the future. i'm sorry, i career in the future. i'm sorry, they— career in the future. i'm sorry, they have _ career in the future. i'm sorry, they have been _ career in the future. i'm sorry, they have been taken - career in the future. i'm sorry, they have been taken for - career in the future. i'm sorry, . they have been taken for granted career in the future. i'm sorry, - they have been taken for granted far too tong. _ they have been taken for granted far too tong. and — they have been taken for granted far too tong. and they— they have been taken for granted far too long, and they really _ they have been taken for granted far too long, and they really have - they have been taken for granted far too long, and they really have no - too long, and they really have no other— too long, and they really have no other course _ too long, and they really have no other course of _ too long, and they really have no other course of action, _ too long, and they really have no other course of action, the - too long, and they really have no other course of action, the same| too long, and they really have no . other course of action, the same as other— other course of action, the same as other areas— other course of action, the same as

other areas in— other course of action, the same as other areas in society, _ other course of action, the same as other areas in society, whether- other course of action, the same as other areas in society, whether it . other areas in society, whether it be nurses, — other areas in society, whether it be nurses, police _ other areas in society, whether it be nurses, police or— other areas in society, whether it be nurses, police or whatever, i other areas in society, whether iti be nurses, police or whatever, we take _ be nurses, police or whatever, we take these — be nurses, police or whatever, we take these people _ be nurses, police or whatever, we take these people for _ be nurses, police or whatever, we take these people for granted - be nurses, police or whatever, we take these people for granted and they putting — take these people for granted and they putting in _ take these people for granted and they putting in a _ take these people for granted and they putting in a lot _ take these people for granted and they putting in a lot to _ take these people for granted and they putting in a lot to this - they putting in a lot to this society— they putting in a lot to this society of— they putting in a lot to this society of ours. _ they putting in a lot to this society of ours.— they putting in a lot to this socie of ours. . , ,., ., society of ours. kate, responded to brett. hi, society of ours. kate, responded to brett- hi. kate. _ society of ours. kate, responded to brett. hi, kate, you _ society of ours. kate, responded to brett. hi, kate, you hear— society of ours. kate, responded to brett. hi, kate, you hear brett - society of ours. kate, responded to brett. hi, kate, you hear brett and| brett. hi, kate, you hear brett and he represents a strand of opinion, what is your reply to him? . he represents a strand of opinion, what is your reply to him?- what is your reply to him? , well, the starting _ what is your reply to him? , well, the starting salary _ what is your reply to him? , well, the starting salary currently - what is your reply to him? , well, the starting salary currently for i the starting salary currently for teachers — the starting salary currently for teachers is still not out £30,000 and it— teachers is still not out £30,000 and it would take a teacher a very, very tong _ and it would take a teacher a very, very long time to get to that average _ very long time to get to that average figure of £40,000 that he has quoted. and the thing is, whether— has quoted. and the thing is, whether he feels it is a fair wage or hot. _ whether he feels it is a fair wage or not, graduates are voting with their— or not, graduates are voting with their feet, — or not, graduates are voting with theirfeet, and or not, graduates are voting with their feet, and they are not voting to become — their feet, and they are not voting to become teachers, it is as simple as that _ to become teachers, it is as simple as that we — to become teachers, it is as simple as that. we have a crisis, i think we use — as that. we have a crisis, i think we use the — as that. we have a crisis, i think we use the word crisis a lot, it is a crisis. — we use the word crisis a lot, it is a crisis. the _ we use the word crisis a lot, it is a crisis, the current target for secondary—

a crisis, the current target for secondary training, the government has set _ secondary training, the government has set itself, has been missed by 50% this— has set itself, has been missed by 50% this year. if we want graduates, if we want _ 50% this year. if we want graduates, if we want our children, the future of our— if we want our children, the future of our society, to be educated by tatehted — of our society, to be educated by talented graduates, we have to pay them, _ talented graduates, we have to pay them, it— talented graduates, we have to pay them, it is— talented graduates, we have to pay them, it is as simple as that, and currently— them, it is as simple as that, and currently they are doing anything but teaching. in relation to the private — but teaching. in relation to the private sector, private sector do strike, _ private sector, private sector do strike, in — private sector, private sector do strike, in birmingham where i am from— strike, in birmingham where i am from we— strike, in birmingham where i am from we have just had a bus strike, west— from we have just had a bus strike, west midlands bus strikers, they want _ west midlands bus strikers, they waht16% — west midlands bus strikers, they want 16% pay rise in their strike. want16% pay rise in their strike. -- they— want 16% pay rise in their strike. -- they won _ want 16% pay rise in their strike. —— they won 16%. so, other sectors are paying — —— they won 16%. so, other sectors are paying out and they are paying out a _ are paying out and they are paying out a fair — are paying out and they are paying out a fair wage for a good day's work— out a fair wage for a good day's work and — out a fair wage for a good day's work and that is not what teachers currehtty _ work and that is not what teachers currently have. we have tried all sorts _ currently have. we have tried all sorts of— currently have. we have tried all sorts of other things, we have been, in the _ sorts of other things, we have been, in the neu _ sorts of other things, we have been, in the neu we have been campaigning foryears— in the neu we have been campaigning for years about school funding, we

have treeh— for years about school funding, we have been getting parents on board, we have _ have been getting parents on board, we have done rallies, we have written — we have done rallies, we have written letters, we have done all kinds _ written letters, we have done all kinds of — written letters, we have done all kinds of social media stunts to get the government to invest more money, and they— the government to invest more money, and they have invested a little bit more _ and they have invested a little bit more money, but ultimately... more than ever before? _ more money, but ultimately... more than ever before? but _ more money, but ultimately... more than ever before? but you _ more money, but ultimately... more than ever before? but you know, - than ever before? but you know, thins than ever before? but you know, things cost _ than ever before? but you know, things cost more _ than ever before? but you know, things cost more than _ than ever before? but you know, things cost more than they - than ever before? but you know, things cost more than they ever. than ever before? but you know, i things cost more than they ever did before _ things cost more than they ever did before you — things cost more than they ever did before. you can say that but it is still below, _ before. you can say that but it is still below, if you take inflation into account, it is a real terms funding — into account, it is a real terms funding loss and it is every single year. _ funding loss and it is every single year. a _ funding loss and it is every single year. a reat— funding loss and it is every single year, a real terms pay cut for teachers _ year, a real terms pay cut for teachers. so, yes, it is more than ever— teachers. so, yes, it is more than ever before — teachers. so, yes, it is more than ever before but it is not enough. 0k, ever before but it is not enough. 0k. but— ever before but it is not enough. ok, but absolutely, we made that point earlier on, here is a text about how to do the teachers realise what damage they are doing to those students studying for exams, they have already been through the disruption of lockdown, striking teachers should be fine when they return to work. i willjust finish this text. parents taking children out of school for holidays, that is

from john in leicestershire. don't go anywhere, i will bring in sarah in horncastle. argue an angry parent, sarah?— in horncastle. argue an angry parent, sarah? yes, 'ust a little bit. wh parent, sarah? yes, 'ust a little bit. why so? h parent, sarah? yes, 'ust a little bit. why so? well, _ parent, sarah? yes, just a little bit. why so? well, my - parent, sarah? yes, just a little bit. why so? well, my eldest, l parent, sarah? yes, just a little i bit. why so? well, my eldest, she parent, sarah? yes, just a little - bit. why so? well, my eldest, she is ear nine bit. why so? well, my eldest, she is year nine new. _ bit. why so? well, my eldest, she is year nine now, obviously _ bit. why so? well, my eldest, she is year nine now, obviously was - bit. why so? well, my eldest, she is year nine now, obviously was hugely| year nine now, obviously was hugely affected with covid lockdown, she missed basically half of year seven, year eight. so she has had every day of strike off, five days, teachers have not set any work, nothing that makes any... there are a few multiple—choice questions at best it probably takes about half an hour, so, for five full days she is out of school. she then gets very grumpy when it is a friday that she has to go back because she is in weekend mode, getting a teenager to get back into the routine. again, it kind of makes me laugh after a bank or weekend that they choose to strike on a tuesday. why not a thursday, if

it has really got to be, or a wednesday, not having a long bank holiday weekend? and i think the offer is good and fair and i think there is a lot of people that are struggling, that are working, people keeping the country going in other ways, shopworkers, whatever they are doing, but we are not all striking to get a pay rise, but they have got a good offer. and i think soon it needs to be stricter, they need to be told that fdr going to keep putting these strike days in, the government has got to say something more like right, we are not agree on, this is the offer, don't take it or you are going to have a week in the summer holidays to catch these children up, let's start eating into their six weeks off and say, right, first week, all the children have got to be back in, because they have not caught up from covid and now they are really suffering and into years' time, she is going to be doing gcses, there is going to be no

exceptions on her because of the covid and the strikes, it willjust be, go and do your gcses.i covid and the strikes, it will 'ust be, go and do your gcses. i have got to brina be, go and do your gcses. i have got to bring kate — be, go and do your gcses. i have got to bring kate back— be, go and do your gcses. i have got to bring kate back in _ be, go and do your gcses. i have got to bring kate back in here _ be, go and do your gcses. i have got to bring kate back in here now- be, go and do your gcses. i have got to bring kate back in here now to - to bring kate back in here now to speak to you. to bring kate back in here now to speak to you— to bring kate back in here now to speak to you. to bring kate back in here now to seak to ou. , . ., , speak to you. yes, i mean, we do see the disruntion — speak to you. yes, i mean, we do see the disruption that _ speak to you. yes, i mean, we do see the disruption that it _ speak to you. yes, i mean, we do see the disruption that it causes _ the disruption that it causes parents _ the disruption that it causes parents and children, and we desperately want to avoid that, the buck ties— desperately want to avoid that, the buck lies with the government, and actually— buck lies with the government, and actually the government, what they need to— actually the government, what they need to do— actually the government, what they need to do is listen to the workers are saying — need to do is listen to the workers are saying that it isn't a reasonable deal. i understand that that is— reasonable deal. i understand that that is what is being put out there but it— that is what is being put out there but it isn't— that is what is being put out there but it isn't a — that is what is being put out there but it isn't a reasonable deal and they need — but it isn't a reasonable deal and they need to come back and talk to us. they need to come back and talk to us in _ they need to come back and talk to us in terms — they need to come back and talk to us. in terms of lost education absolutely we recognise that education was disrupted during covid and we _ education was disrupted during covid and we see _ education was disrupted during covid and we see that these days are disrupting some children, children who are _ disrupting some children, children who are in — disrupting some children, children who are in exam groups are going in, iknow— who are in exam groups are going in, ikhowthat_ who are in exam groups are going in, i know that does not impact on your daughter— i know that does not impact on your daughter but we are making dispensations to make sure that children— dispensations to make sure that children are having the education that they— children are having the education that they need, but the fact of the matter— that they need, but the fact of the matter is— that they need, but the fact of the matter is that four children in school — matter is that four children in school at _ matter is that four children in school at the moment, for every

single _ school at the moment, for every single child who is at school at the moment, — single child who is at school at the moment, their education is disrupted every— moment, their education is disrupted every single day, your daughter and the children in this country are not getting _ the children in this country are not getting the — the children in this country are not getting the education that they deserve, and that is because there is not _ deserve, and that is because there is not enough money in the system. so, is not enough money in the system. so. scores _ is not enough money in the system. so, scores are not funded well enough — so, scores are not funded well enough for children to have the support— enough for children to have the support they need, from, say, a learning — support they need, from, say, a learning support assistant or a teaching — learning support assistant or a teaching assistant. some schools do not have _ teaching assistant. some schools do not have the specialist teachers that they — not have the specialist teachers that they need so you might find that they need so you might find that your— that they need so you might find that your daughter's maths teacher has not _ that your daughter's maths teacher has not even got an a—level in nraths, — has not even got an a—level in maths, because schools can't... you nright— maths, because schools can't... you might find _ maths, because schools can't... you might find that if she did a science, _ might find that if she did a science, that they are not actually specialised in science, so, unfortunately, education is disrupted every single day, and we are striking, with those children at the absolute forefront of our minds, that is— the absolute forefront of our minds, that is what — the absolute forefront of our minds, that is what we do every day.- that is what we do every day. serra, comeback. — that is what we do every day. serra, comeback. i— that is what we do every day. serra, comeback, i heard _ that is what we do every day. serra, comeback, i heard you _ that is what we do every day. serra, comeback, i heard you in _ that is what we do every day. serra, comeback, i heard you in the - comeback, i heard you in the background... comeback, i heard you in the background. . ._ comeback, i heard you in the background... comeback, i heard you in the backuround... , , . background... yes, i understand the fundin: , background... yes, i understand the funding. always _ background... yes, i understand the funding, always they _ background... yes, i understand the

funding, always they are _ background... yes, i understand the funding, always they are struggling l funding, always they are struggling with either teachers or... but the answer isn't to then go and disrupt even more, that is not the solution. if she has a supply in, 0k it is a supply but at the end of the day she is being set work, she has got a routine. all this money that is being put into well—being is constantly being disrupted every time because she is having a day off, and the offer on the table is good. 0k possibly not the best but why not take it now and in a year's time when the country has got a little bit more, come back to the table. but somewhere, you... just children, just... i don't know, i just think... you have got social care, social workers, we are not seeing these on strike, they are burning outjust the same, people aren't going into the profession, exactly the same, but there is a difference, they are not doing what the teachers are doing. and if you are saying you are struggling to get the qualified teachers, 0k, put some money into health with uni, put the

fees down so that you can get younger people may be choosing it as a profession. but tojust younger people may be choosing it as a profession. but to just all of a sudden say we want to be paid more, that will get more in... i don't agree with that anger i hear that. after the february strikes, the government made this offer teachers in england which included a £1000 one—off payment this year and a 4.3% pay rise for most staff in september for there is that, but over the last goodness knows how many years, 11, 12, 13 years, there has been a real terms decline in pay. this 12, 13 years, there has been a real terms decline in pay.— terms decline in pay. this was ointed terms decline in pay. this was pointed out — terms decline in pay. this was pointed out by _ terms decline in pay. this was pointed out by an _ terms decline in pay. this was| pointed out by an independent terms decline in pay. this was - pointed out by an independent body, the ifs. so i know you can see their point, but is your point that it is gritted teeth to?— point, but is your point that it is gritted teeth to? yes, but i think if they are _ gritted teeth to? yes, but i think if they are not — gritted teeth to? yes, but i think if they are not careful, _ gritted teeth to? yes, but i think if they are not careful, all- gritted teeth to? yes, but i think if they are not careful, all the - if they are not careful, all the money being spent to help children get over and recover and catch up is slipping away very fast. i just

think we are going to go in this cycle of strikes aren't the answer, schools are struggling, like everything, the person said before, she is right, yes, they haven't got the quality of teaching, they are having to struggle by with, i mean, special needs, i have got two younger ones in the same thing is happening, but there is a massive difference for my eldest when she was at primary school, now my youngest, there is a huge difference, i get it but i think we need to try and look, just get the offer and get children back and then reassess it, like i say, next september, so they take this one and then next time it is put onto the government that we want to talk and look at working where money needs to be spent in schools. so, the job isn't bubbly as pressured and stressed and that they are not having to stay behind until whatever time to catch up. give teachers that, i think it needs to be looked at as a whole, notjust, we are

striking because that is not good, like,... they are going to make it harder, because i can see that children, especially teenagers, it is going to make it harderfor them. i am going to bring in cathy to respond to these remarks, to speak to sarah. cathy, meet sarah, on the radio, on the telly, cathy in halsted, what about sarah's remarks? hi, i have been teaching for over 30 years— hi, i have been teaching for over 30 years and _ hi, i have been teaching for over 30 years and i— hi, i have been teaching for over 30 years and i started off in london and i_ years and i started off in london and i rememberwhen i was years and i started off in london and i remember when i was training to be— and i remember when i was training to be a— and i remember when i was training to be a teacher, i remember going on, to be a teacher, i remember going on. we _ to be a teacher, i remember going on. we had — to be a teacher, i remember going on, we had supervisors then, we had people _ on, we had supervisors then, we had people who _ on, we had supervisors then, we had people who helped us train and i remember going in and saying to len, who was— remember going in and saying to len, who was the— remember going in and saying to len, who was the guy looking after us, i was teaching dt at the time, len, we don't _ was teaching dt at the time, len, we don't have _ was teaching dt at the time, len, we don't have any money for paper. we stote _ don't have any money for paper. we stote paper, — don't have any money for paper. we stole paper, a3 paper, from istington _ stole paper, a3 paper, from islington council offices, because i didnt— islington council offices, because i didn't have — islington council offices, because i didn't have any paper. in the text that i_ didn't have any paper. in the text that i sent — didn't have any paper. in the text that i sent in to radio 5 live, and

i that i sent in to radio 5 live, and i have _ that i sent in to radio 5 live, and i have never— that i sent in to radio 5 live, and i have never done this before, i've never— i have never done this before, i've never spoken out, i am very in the union— never spoken out, i am very in the union but— never spoken out, i am very in the union but i— never spoken out, i am very in the union but i have never said anything in _ union but i have never said anything in i_ union but i have never said anything in i reckon— union but i have never said anything in... i reckon that i've spent over the years. — in... i reckon that i've spent over the years, over 30 years, i reckon i've the years, over 30 years, i reckon we spent— the years, over 30 years, i reckon i've spent over £35,000 just making sure that _ i've spent over £35,000 just making sure that children have a good experience in my classroom. good arief. experience in my classroom. good grief- what _ experience in my classroom. good grief- what i _ experience in my classroom. good grief. what i would _ experience in my classroom. good grief. what i would say _ experience in my classroom. good grief. what i would say to - experience in my classroom. good grief. what i would say to people, | grief. what i would say to people, and i also grief. what i would say to people, and i also set _ grief. what i would say to people, and i also set in _ grief. what i would say to people, and i also set in my— grief. what i would say to people, and i also set in my text - grief. what i would say to people, and i also set in my text and - grief. what i would say to people, and i also set in my text and i - and i also set in my text and i think— and i also set in my text and i think that _ and i also set in my text and i think that is why radio 5 live got back— think that is why radio 5 live got back to _ think that is why radio 5 live got back to me, that i retire but i have had to— back to me, that i retire but i have had to go— back to me, that i retire but i have had to go back into teaching because i had to go back into teaching because i can't _ had to go back into teaching because i can't manage on the pension, this idea that _ i can't manage on the pension, this idea that teachers get these marvellous pensions, i am on under £14,000 _ marvellous pensions, i am on under £14,000 a _ marvellous pensions, i am on under £14,000 a year on my pension, and i've £14,000 a year on my pension, and i've been— £14,000 a year on my pension, and i've been teaching over 30 years, i have _ i've been teaching over 30 years, i have been— i've been teaching over 30 years, i have been head of year, i have been head of— have been head of year, i have been head of house, i've been head of department, and it has never been about— department, and it has never been about the — department, and it has never been about the money, and what i would say, sarah, — about the money, and what i would say, sarah, and to everyone, and i do have _ say, sarah, and to everyone, and i do have simply, i put my kids through— do have simply, i put my kids through the same school i taught, what _

through the same school i taught, what i _ through the same school i taught, what i would say is, you need to put pressure _ what i would say is, you need to put pressure on — what i would say is, you need to put pressure on your mp, you need to put pressure — pressure on your mp, you need to put pressure on _ pressure on your mp, you need to put pressure on the government, because teachers _ pressure on the government, because teachers are _ pressure on the government, because teachers are at the end of their tether. — teachers are at the end of their tether, they would not be doing this if they— tether, they would not be doing this if they had _ tether, they would not be doing this if they had any other choice, the offer— if they had any other choice, the offer which — if they had any other choice, the offer which the government keeps saying _ offer which the government keeps saying is— offer which the government keeps saying is pretty good, it is not funded — saying is pretty good, it is not funded properly so what it means is schoots _ funded properly so what it means is schools will lose out, workload will io schools will lose out, workload will go up. _ schools will lose out, workload will go up. you — schools will lose out, workload will go up, you need everyone needs to be putting _ go up, you need everyone needs to be putting pressure on their mps, on the government, because as someone said earlier, _ the government, because as someone said earlier, they can find money in certain— said earlier, they can find money in certain situations, teachers don't want _ certain situations, teachers don't want to— certain situations, teachers don't want to be — certain situations, teachers don't want to be doing this, believe me, i have been— want to be doing this, believe me, i have been teaching a long time, teachers — have been teaching a long time, teachers do not want to be doing this _ teachers do not want to be doing this. �* , ., ., . teachers do not want to be doing this. �* i. ., . i. ., . this. and you love what you do and ou are this. and you love what you do and you are dedicated _ this. and you love what you do and you are dedicated to _ this. and you love what you do and you are dedicated to it _ this. and you love what you do and you are dedicated to it by - this. and you love what you do and you are dedicated to it by the - you are dedicated to it by the sounds of things?— you are dedicated to it by the sounds of things? you are dedicated to it by the sounds of thins? , . �* sounds of things? yes, i mean, we've not some sounds of things? yes, i mean, we've got some of— sounds of things? yes, i mean, we've got some of best _ sounds of things? yes, i mean, we've got some of best results _ sounds of things? yes, i mean, we've got some of best results in _ sounds of things? yes, i mean, we've got some of best results in the - got some of best results in the country— got some of best results in the country in _ got some of best results in the country in the school that i work in, country in the school that i work in. i_ country in the school that i work in. i teach — country in the school that i work in, i teach art, because we have put _ in, i teach art, because we have put i— in, i teach art, because we have putw i have _ in, i teach art, because we have put... i have dedicated my life to this _ put... i have dedicated my life to this and — put... i have dedicated my life to this and so—

put... i have dedicated my life to this. and so have the people around me. this. and so have the people around me and _ this. and so have the people around me and it _ this. and so have the people around me. and it hurts my heart when i hear— me. and it hurts my heart when i hear people — me. and it hurts my heart when i hear people saying that teachers don't _ hear people saying that teachers don't care, and their money is ok. i am out _ don't care, and their money is ok. i am out on _ don't care, and their money is ok. i am out on strike today and i wouldn't _ am out on strike today and i wouldn't be doing it unless i believed _ wouldn't be doing it unless i believed i didn't have any other option — believed i didn't have any other option. and it isjust enough is enough. — option. and it isjust enough is enough, nicky. 30 years ago in that council— enough, nicky. 30 years ago in that council office in islington as a young — council office in islington as a young teacher, nicking paper from istington _ young teacher, nicking paper from islington council offices, and we have _ islington council offices, and we have stilt— islington council offices, and we have still got issues with teachers having _ have still got issues with teachers having to — have still got issues with teachers having to buy paper, teachers having to buy _ having to buy paper, teachers having to buy pencils... a i was going to ask, _ to buy pencils... a i was going to ask, what— to buy pencils... a i was going to ask, what sort of stuff, i mean, tattying — ask, what sort of stuff, i mean, tattying it— ask, what sort of stuff, i mean, tallying it up over the years, 35,000 _ tallying it up over the years, 35,000 of your own money, you said, what sort _ 35,000 of your own money, you said, what sort of— 35,000 of your own money, you said, what sort of stuff have you had to pay for _ what sort of stuff have you had to pay for yourself that has been tacking? — pay for yourself that has been lacking? so, i have bought art books, — lacking? so, i have bought art books, i— lacking? so, i have bought art books, i am an art teacher and you needm _ books, i am an art teacher and you needm you— books, i am an art teacher and you need... you can go online but it is much _ need... you can go online but it is much better— need... you can go online but it is much better if you... i have got the most _ much better if you... i have got the most incredible library of art books, — most incredible library of art books, i_ most incredible library of art books, i bought those out of my own money. _ books, i bought those out of my own money, we _ books, i bought those out of my own

money, we set up huge stores every year and — money, we set up huge stores every year and they quite renowned now because _ year and they quite renowned now because we really do, in all the art rooms— because we really do, in all the art rooms we — because we really do, in all the art rooms we set them up, we've got no funding. — rooms we set them up, we've got no funding. we _ rooms we set them up, we've got no funding, we change the scenes every year. _ funding, we change the scenes every year. we _ funding, we change the scenes every year, we will have decay on year, we will att— year, we will have decay on year, we will all live _ year, we will have decay on year, we will all live another year, there isn't _ will all live another year, there isn't any— will all live another year, there isn't any money to buy shelves or anything. — isn't any money to buy shelves or anything. i— isn't any money to buy shelves or anything, i have got all of those, boot— anything, i have got all of those, boot fairs — anything, i have got all of those, boot fairs over the summer holiday. that is _ boot fairs over the summer holiday. that is where i am at, i am buying stuff— that is where i am at, i am buying stuff for— that is where i am at, i am buying stuff for the — that is where i am at, i am buying stuff for the new rooms. pencils, paints. _ stuff for the new rooms. pencils, paints, drawing materials, sketchbooks, you name it, i have bought— sketchbooks, you name it, i have bought it — sketchbooks, you name it, i have bou~ht it. �* . ., bought it. darren in birmingham, do ou aet bought it. darren in birmingham, do you get that. — bought it. darren in birmingham, do you get that. do _ bought it. darren in birmingham, do you get that, do you _ bought it. darren in birmingham, do you get that, do you hear— bought it. darren in birmingham, do you get that, do you hear that? - you get that, do you hear that? hiya, nicky, ido you get that, do you hear that? hiya, nicky, i do understand but however there are other sectors out there that are on similar types of things that are struggling, there is care workers that are doing 12 hours a day, they are struggling on a low pay wage. listen, like the lady said before, take the deal and then go back to the table in a year and go

from there, because the only ones that are suffering at the minute are the kids that are off school. they are the only ones that are suffering because it is all well doing home education, but sometimes there is children that can't do that because they have got certain reasons at home so it is better to be in the classroom, a lot better to be in the classroom. my kids are off today. my two kids are off today. you classroom. my kids are off today. my two kids are off today.— two kids are off today. you know, have suffered _ two kids are off today. you know, have suffered with _ two kids are off today. you know, have suffered with covid, - two kids are off today. you know, have suffered with covid, yes, - two kids are off today. you know, have suffered with covid, yes, i i have suffered with covid, yes, i understand, but if there is a deal on the table, take it and then go backin on the table, take it and then go back in a year because like i said before there are other sectors that are struggling as well, notjust teachers. are struggling as well, not 'ust teachers. . ,, , are struggling as well, not 'ust teachers. . , , , ., are struggling as well, not 'ust teachers. . ,, , ., are struggling as well, not 'ust teachers. . , , , ., , ., ., ., teachers. happily, do you want me to resond to teachers. happily, do you want me to respond to that? _ teachers. happily, do you want me to respond to that? if— teachers. happily, do you want me to respond to that? if you _ teachers. happily, do you want me to respond to that? if you would - teachers. happily, do you want me to respond to that? if you would like - respond to that? if you would like to, eah. respond to that? if you would like to, yeah. darren, _ respond to that? if you would like to, yeah. darren, i— respond to that? if you would like to, yeah. darren, i would - respond to that? if you would like to, yeah. darren, i would say - respond to that? if you would like to, yeah. darren, i would say to l to, yeah. darren, i would say to ou, i to, yeah. darren, i would say to you. i would _ to, yeah. darren, i would say to you, i would be _ to, yeah. darren, i would say to you, i would be behind - to, yeah. darren, i would say to you, i would be behind people | to, yeah. darren, i would say to| you, i would be behind people in you, iwould be behind people in care homes are striking as well.

what _ care homes are striking as well. what is — care homes are striking as well. what is happening, what seems to me to be happening is, in this country at the _ to be happening is, in this country at the moment, the government we have is— at the moment, the government we have is very. — at the moment, the government we have is very, very clever at turning us all— have is very, very clever at turning us all against each other. we should look that— us all against each other. we should look that way, we should look towards — look that way, we should look towards them, we should look towards our mps. _ towards them, we should look towards our mps. our— towards them, we should look towards our mps, our local mps and the government to come up with better pay deals — government to come up with better pay deals. and government to come up with better -a deals. �* ., , ,, pay deals. and were only spending mone on pay deals. and were only spending money on that _ pay deals. and were only spending money on that we _ pay deals. and were only spending money on that we should - pay deals. and were only spending money on that we should be - pay deals. and were only spending i money on that we should be spending on the public sector, very quickly, running out of time, in 30 seconds? one example, nicky, and it would be the ludicrous situation we had during — the ludicrous situation we had during covid where they spent billions. — during covid where they spent billions, not millions, billions, on useless— billions, not millions, billions, on useless ppi _ billions, not millions, billions, on useless ppi. equipment. and apparently, i am useless ppi. equipment. and apparently, lam not useless ppi. equipment. and apparently, i am not expert in this field but _ apparently, i am not expert in this field but apparently they are not doing _ field but apparently they are not doing anything to recoup that money. leading _ doing anything to recoup that money. leading why aren't they? that doing anything to recoup that money. leading why aren't they?— leading why aren't they? that you ve much leading why aren't they? that you very much indeed. _ leading why aren't they? that you very much indeed. thank - leading why aren't they? that you very much indeed. thank you, - leading why aren't they? that you - very much indeed. thank you, darren,

you can kathy, thank you, sarah, thank you everybody. sorry couldn't get through more calls, we had such amazing contributions. and in between as well. xl bully dogs: pet or problem? i encountered when the other day, magnificent beast or absolute monster? you take your pick. an xl bully — a crossbreed between the american pit bull terrier and a type of bulldog — xl referring to the dog's size. some weigh as much as 150le

and stand up to 23 inches tall. encountered on the other day with my terrified little westie, its eyes narrowed as it came towards, i wanted to say to the guy, do you mind if i take a photo of your beautiful dog? he said: sol mind if i take a photo of your beautiful dog? he said: so i did. if you are watching on the telly i will show some of the photos i took on clapham common, gives you the idea of a size next to a west highland terrier. today, the mum of a ten—year—old boy who died after being attacked by an xl bully, has said we need a proper rethink of how we licence breeders and dog owners. while a poll in the mirror says nearly three—quarters of people surveyed believe the current rules on owning and breeding dangerous dogs are too relaxed. i bet you've seen one of these when you have been walking in the park. fans say they are loyal and protective of family members, and with proper socialising can make wonderful pets.

but there are mighty irresponsible owners out there, of that there is no doubt. others say their size and protectiveness makes them very dangerous. this morning xl bully dogs: pet or problem? get in touch. a pay deal for hundreds of thousands of nhs staff in england is expected to be settled later, despite continued opposition from the royal college of nursing and unite unions. ministers will meet representatives from 14 unions this lunchtime. the deal includes a 5% pay rise and a lump sum worth at least £1600. schools in england are facing disruption as members of the national education union walk out over pay. the government insists the current offer for teaching staff is fair. the neu says they want a "long

term correction" in pay. bp has announced stronger than expected profits for the first three months of this year. the firm made £4 billion between january and march. that's down by around £1 billion on last year, as oil prices having fallen from the peak seen after russia's invasion of ukraine. the organisation representing supermarkerts says food prices should start to come down in the next few months. figures from the british retail consortium show the cost of groceries in april was 15.7% higher than last year. xl bully is not a band breed, might i add. let's speak to emma, the mother of a child who was killed by

a xl bully in 2021 to stop a low and i am so sorry for your loss.- i am so sorry for your loss. good morning- — i am so sorry for your loss. good morning- what _ i am so sorry for your loss. good morning. what happened? - i am so sorry for your loss. good morning. what happened? you | i am so sorry for your loss. good i morning. what happened? you said i am so sorry for your loss. good - morning. what happened? you said it all, jack morning. what happened? you said it all. jack went — morning. what happened? you said it all, jack went out _ morning. what happened? you said it all, jack went out to _ morning. what happened? you said it all, jack went out to play, _ morning. what happened? you said it all, jack went out to play, he - morning. what happened? you said it all, jack went out to play, he met - all, jack went out to play, he met with his friend and they went to his house where he was attacked pretty much on the door opening and he did not make it. hope much on the door opening and he did not make it— not make it. how utterly horrific for ou not make it. how utterly horrific for you and _ not make it. how utterly horrific for you and something - not make it. how utterly horrific for you and something i - not make it. how utterly horrific for you and something i know i not make it. how utterly horrific. for you and something i know you will obviously live with for the rest of your life. did you know the stalker were you aware of it being in the neighbourhood? i had stalker were you aware of it being in the neighbourhood?— stalker were you aware of it being in the neighbourhood? i had no idea this dog existed _ in the neighbourhood? i had no idea this dog existed and _ in the neighbourhood? i had no idea this dog existed and if— in the neighbourhood? i had no idea this dog existed and if i _ in the neighbourhood? i had no idea this dog existed and if i did - in the neighbourhood? i had no idea this dog existed and if i did things i this dog existed and if i did things could have been a lot different. what do you mean by that? i could have been a lot different. what do you mean by that? i mean, the cctv what do you mean by that? i mean, the cm that _ what do you mean by that? i mean, the cctv that was _ what do you mean by that? i mean, the cctv that was released - what do you mean by that? i mean, the cctv that was released in - what do you mean by that? i mean, the cctv that was released in core, | the cctv that was released in core, shows the dog behaving outside local

shops and if i knew that dog was in the area, then i could have told the kids about the dog, and it could not have happened, it is issued of could have happened, it is issued of could have would have kind of thing. what have would have kind of thing. what ha--ened have would have kind of thing. what happened after— have would have kind of thing. what happened after the _ have would have kind of thing. what happened after the attack when the police came? to happened after the attack when the police came?— police came? to tell you the truth, it is a blur- — police came? to tell you the truth, it is a blur. the _ police came? to tell you the truth, it is a blur. the police _ police came? to tell you the truth, it is a blur. the police came, - police came? to tell you the truth, it is a blur. the police came, they. it is a blur. the police came, they managed to get through the door and broughtjack out and then armed police went in and shot the dog. band police went in and shot the dog. and jack, ma police went in and shot the dog. and jack. may he — police went in and shot the dog. and jack, may he rest in peace, suffered on survivable injuries to the head and neck. what did the cctv show when you had a lookdog at the shops, i think you mention? the

when you had a lookdog at the shops, i think you mention?— when you had a lookdog at the shops, i think you mention? the cctv showed the owners with _ i think you mention? the cctv showed the owners with the _ i think you mention? the cctv showed the owners with the dog _ i think you mention? the cctv showed the owners with the dog and _ i think you mention? the cctv showed the owners with the dog and the - i think you mention? the cctv showed the owners with the dog and the dog i the owners with the dog and the dog was lunging up at people, it had attacked people, between them, and it was going for children, riding by on scooters, it had bitten a lady's purse out of her arm, it was just not the way a dog should be behaving. not the way a dog should be behaving-— not the way a dog should be behavinu. ., .,, ., , , behaving. no. people have been sent to rison. behaving. no. people have been sent to prison- one _ behaving. no. people have been sent to prison. one person _ behaving. no. people have been sent to prison. one personjailed - behaving. no. people have been sent to prison. one personjailed for- to prison. one personjailed for four and a half years after admitting owning or being in charge of a dangerously out of control dog and another for three years for the same offence. do you have any idea why they had the stock? i same offence. do you have any idea why they had the stock?— why they had the stock? i have no idea why they _ why they had the stock? i have no idea why they had _ why they had the stock? i have no idea why they had the _ why they had the stock? i have no idea why they had the dog. - why they had the stock? i have no i idea why they had the dog. personal experience from that and what i have seen on the footage, the only thing i believe was for some kind of status symbol for them themselves. abs, status symbol for them themselves. a sort of ego extension kind of thing,

status symbol, yeah. we are talking about jack, status symbol, yeah. we are talking aboutjack, what status symbol, yeah. we are talking about jack, what was jack like? how old . , about jack, what was jack like? how old , , ., , ., about jack, what was jack like? how old , , . , ., ., , old pudseyhe was ten and he was amazinu. old pudseyhe was ten and he was amazing- a _ old pudseyhe was ten and he was amazing- a typical _ old pudseyhe was ten and he was amazing. a typical boy _ old pudseyhe was ten and he was amazing. a typical boy into - old pudseyhe was ten and he was amazing. a typical boy into cars i old pudseyhe was ten and he was i amazing. a typical boy into cars and playstation. he wasjustjack. he playstation. he was 'ust jack. he was 'ust playstation. he wasjust jack. he wasjust jack. what do playstation. he wasjust jack. he was just jack. what do you think should happen, given what you have been through and what others have gone through and may well still? people do argue it is about, don't they, they argue it is about the owner, emma, notabout they, they argue it is about the owner, emma, not about the dog. do you think there is something, this opens a whole can of worms because i know dog lovers argue if a dog is well—trained well looked after it

will not do this. whatever the dog. but what would you like to see happen? i but what would you like to see ha en? ., , , but what would you like to see hauen? ., , , happen? i would be lying ifi said that i believe _ happen? i would be lying ifi said that i believe there _ happen? i would be lying ifi said that i believe there is _ happen? i would be lying ifi said that i believe there is no - happen? i would be lying ifi said that i believe there is no issues | that i believe there is no issues with the breach. i mean, one of those xl bully killed my son so i have to question it, and it is not just my son that has been a victim, there has been others, so i do question it. but i also question the breeders, what are they doing for these dogs to be behaving like this? which is why i want to see a change to the dangerous dogs act, i want to see a change around breeders and loopholes closed in every sense, anyway where there is co—ownership allowed, things like that, with owners. i believe all dogs should be trained and there should be no reason why a dog is not trained. we have the microchip in dog so why can

we not use that as a form of a license that people can access to see where these dogs are coming from and to read up on these dogs that people could potentially be owning. this is where i want to see changes happen. this is where i want to see changes ha en. ., . this is where i want to see changes hauen. ., . ., _ happen. you are obviously knowledgeable _ happen. you are obviously knowledgeable through i happen. you are obviously - knowledgeable through terrible experience but obviously a passionate campaigner on this. you are very articulate when it comes to seeing what you think should happen, and i know you have a lot of support. ijust wonder, what is it like for you, it must be horrendous when you're out and about and see one of these animals? because they are everywhere. one of these animals? because they are everywhere-— are everywhere. yes, they are. and there has been _ are everywhere. yes, they are. and there has been other _ are everywhere. yes, they are. and there has been other incidents - are everywhere. yes, they are. and there has been other incidents in i there has been other incidents in there has been other incidents in the area with the same kind of breed, and notjust the attack, the way they have been treated out in the street and i will be completely

honest and i will say this to anyone, if i see one being walked i am more than happy to cross the street, i don't want to be near them but that is because of my experience and what we have been through as a family. so i know not all of them act the same way and i'm not ready to tar everyone with the same brush but from experience i personally don't want to be around them. i don't want to be around them. i completely understand that. we have a picture ofjack if anyone is watching the television, cuddling a pet cat. my goodness, that is heartbreaking. what a lovely little boy. it isjust heartbreaking. what a lovely little boy. it is just awful. heartbreaking. what a lovely little boy. it isjust awful. ghastly. it boy. it isjust awful. ghastly. it is horrendous. clearly - boy. it isjust awful. ghastly. it is horrendous. clearly loves - is horrendous. clearly loves animals- — is horrendous. clearly loves animals- it _

is horrendous. clearly loves animals. it should - is horrendous. clearly loves animals. it should never- is horrendous. clearly loves i animals. it should never have happened- — animals. it should never have happened. yeah. _ animals. it should never have happened. yeah. what - animals. it should never have happened. yeah. what was i animals. it should never have l happened. yeah. what was the animals. it should never have - happened. yeah. what was the actual da li . ht happened. yeah. what was the actual da liuht for happened. yeah. what was the actual daylight for you? _ happened. yeah. what was the actual daylight for you? i — happened. yeah. what was the actual daylight for you? i can't _ happened. yeah. what was the actual daylight for you? i can't describe - daylight for you? i can't describe it, i don't know _ daylight for you? i can't describe it, i don't know the _ daylight for you? i can't describe it, i don't know the words - daylight for you? i can't describe it, i don't know the words to - it, i don't know the words to describe it, everything was going ok untilfour describe it, everything was going ok until four o'clock after school and thenit until four o'clock after school and then it is just... until four o'clock after school and then it isjust... i really don't have the words to describe that day at all. i can't. i still can't understand it, i can't make sense of it. i understand it, i can't make sense of it. _, , , . , it. i completely get that. this happened. — it. i completely get that. this happened. can't _ it. i completely get that. this happened, can't understand i it. i completely get that. this | happened, can't understand it, it. i completely get that. this - happened, can't understand it, can make sense of it, that should not happen. make sense of it, that should not ha en. ., make sense of it, that should not ha . en, ., ,, make sense of it, that should not hauen. ., ,, make sense of it, that should not ha en, ., ., .,, ., make sense of it, that should not ha en, ., ,, ., happen. no. she was bailed out so many different _ happen. no. she was bailed out so many different points _ happen. no. she was bailed out so many different points and - happen. no. she was bailed out so many different points and it - happen. no. she was bailed out so many different points and it was i many different points and it was avoidable from the start —— he was failed at so many different points. in general, i think there needs to be a massive change.—

in general, i think there needs to be a massive change. would you mind if i brou:ht be a massive change. would you mind if i brought somebody _ be a massive change. would you mind if i brought somebody else _ be a massive change. would you mind if i brought somebody else in? - be a massive change. would you mind if i brought somebody else in? you . if i brought somebody else in? you are incredibly brave to actually come on the radio and talk about this stuff. would you mind if i brought a dog trainer into talk as well? ,, . �* , brought a dog trainer into talk as well?— neck. i well? sure, that's fine. neck, hello. well? sure, that's fine. neck, hello- hi- _ well? sure, that's fine. neck, hello- hi- i— well? sure, that's fine. neck, hello. hi. iwant— well? sure, that's fine. neck, hello. hi. i want to _ well? sure, that's fine. neck, hello. hi. iwant to pick- well? sure, that's fine. neck, hello. hi. i want to pick up . well? sure, that's fine. neck,| hello. hi. i want to pick up the point that emma made that there is something specific, something particular about this read, nick. i really appreciate you coming on. do you agree with that? i really appreciate you coming on. do you agree with that?— you agree with that? i think there is a loss of _ you agree with that? i think there is a loss of large, _ you agree with that? i think there is a loss of large, powerful- you agree with that? i think there l is a loss of large, powerful breeds, and i_ is a loss of large, powerful breeds, and i think— is a loss of large, powerful breeds, and i think the american xl bully has become extremely popular and as you have _ has become extremely popular and as you have noticed yourself, as you mentioned — you have noticed yourself, as you mentioned at the start of the programme, they are becoming very common— programme, they are becoming very common to — programme, they are becoming very common to see outside on walks, and ownership _ common to see outside on walks, and ownership of — common to see outside on walks, and ownership of the breed, i don't have numbers— ownership of the breed, i don't have numbers but ownership of the breed certainty— numbers but ownership of the breed certainly seems to be growing at an

incredible _ certainly seems to be growing at an incredible rate and i would call it fashionable. breeds do take fashions from time _ fashionable. breeds do take fashions from time to time. the breed itself, a large _ from time to time. the breed itself, a large dog. — from time to time. the breed itself, a large dog, a powerful dog, and along _ a large dog, a powerful dog, and along with — a large dog, a powerful dog, and along with that, they have to be owned _ along with that, they have to be owned really quite responsibly, and it is hard. _ owned really quite responsibly, and it is hard, heartbreaking listening to them _ it is hard, heartbreaking listening to them with there, can imagine that happening _ to them with there, can imagine that happening to anyone at all —— tistening _ happening to anyone at all —— listening to emma there. i wholeheartedly agree with emma's points. _ wholeheartedly agree with emma's points, about responsible breeding and ownership, and there needs to be some _ and ownership, and there needs to be some fundamental changes in that and we need _ some fundamental changes in that and we need to— some fundamental changes in that and we need to find, as a society, a way through— we need to find, as a society, a way through those things. yeah, there is certainly— through those things. yeah, there is certainly a _ through those things. yeah, there is certainly a large purple breed —— they— certainly a large purple breed —— they are — certainly a large purple breed —— they are -- _ certainly a large purple breed —— they are. —— large, powerful breed. i encountered when the other day, if

you're watching the telly, you can see at the moment, it was straining on the leash to get to my little westie may be a was just being friendly or whatever but you can kind of see the fear in the westy�*s eyes, if you understand body language, she was terrified, and this thing, half of me was saying, what an extraordinary animal, the other half of me saying, let's get out of here. other half of me saying, let's get out of here-— other half of me saying, let's get out of here. and i think from your own dogs — out of here. and i think from your own dogs point — out of here. and i think from your own dog's point of _ out of here. and i think from your own dog's point of view, - out of here. and i think from your own dog's point of view, i - out of here. and i think from your own dog's point of view, i often i own dog's point of view, i often talk to— own dog's point of view, i often talk to small dog owners about this, small— talk to small dog owners about this, small dogs— talk to small dog owners about this, small dogs live in the land of giants. — small dogs live in the land of giants. so _ small dogs live in the land of giants, so if you were to go around the corner— giants, so if you were to go around the corner and meet a 20 foot gentleman that was built big and powerful— gentleman that was built big and powerful and straining to get towards _ powerful and straining to get towards you, there is a good chance you might _ towards you, there is a good chance you might be a little bit afraid of that person yourself. we don't live in that _ that person yourself. we don't live in that world but dogs do. it would be understandable that your dog

could _ be understandable that your dog could potentially be scared, part of responsible dog ownership, for me, when _ responsible dog ownership, for me, when i'm _ responsible dog ownership, for me, when i'm training with clients, is to teach— when i'm training with clients, is to teach owners who have the sort of breeds. _ to teach owners who have the sort of breeds. how — to teach owners who have the sort of breeds, how to get their dogs to behave — breeds, how to get their dogs to behave around other people. and i often _ behave around other people. and i often call— behave around other people. and i often call it happy ignorance, and i guess— often call it happy ignorance, and i guess the — often call it happy ignorance, and i guess the cctv that emma referred to it was— guess the cctv that emma referred to it was the _ guess the cctv that emma referred to it was the extreme opposite of that, that was— it was the extreme opposite of that, that was definitely not happy ignorance and what i mean by happy ignorance _ ignorance and what i mean by happy ignorance of a dog is thatjust basically— ignorance of a dog is thatjust basically gently and calmly walked by other— basically gently and calmly walked by other dogs on the street, if you own a _ by other dogs on the street, if you own a large — by other dogs on the street, if you own a large powerful breed, i own german— own a large powerful breed, i own german shepherd myself and i'm quite conscious— german shepherd myself and i'm quite conscious of— german shepherd myself and i'm quite conscious of how that can make other people _ conscious of how that can make other people feel— conscious of how that can make other people feel and i've had that situation where i have been walking along _ situation where i have been walking along the _ situation where i have been walking along the street with my german shepherd, he has been nice and calm, not been _ shepherd, he has been nice and calm, not been straining towards another do- not been straining towards another dog or— not been straining towards another dog or another person but the person across— dog or another person but the person across the _ dog or another person but the person across the street so i'm very conscious— across the street so i'm very conscious of that, consciously moved to the _ conscious of that, consciously moved to the site. _ conscious of that, consciously moved to the site, put my dog in a nice calm. _ to the site, put my dog in a nice calm, obedient position and i do it

deliberately to try and settle other people _ deliberately to try and settle other people and that is what responsible do- people and that is what responsible dog ownership is partly about. absolutely. a lot of what is that going on. emma, cannot thank you enough for coming on. are you getting a lot of support for what you're saying?— you're saying? yes, a lot of positivity — you're saying? yes, a lot of positivity around _ you're saying? yes, a lot of positivity around what - you're saying? yes, a lot of positivity around what i'm l you're saying? yes, a lot of- positivity around what i'm saying and after going to parliament last month, there seems to be a lot of mps month, there seems to be a lot of mp5 on board with it as well. we just need to keep pushing and get more mp5 to listen, to hopefully make the changes that are needed. this is not an anti—dog dying, is it? no, we have won it all myself, we've had him since before everything happened. == we've had him since before everything happened. -- we have a do at all everything happened. -- we have a dog at all myself. _ everything happened. -- we have a dog at all myself. we _ everything happened. -- we have a dog at all myself. we have - everything happened. -- we have a dog at all myself. we have trained | dog at all myself. we have trained him and done everything a responsible owner should do, i thought that was given when you get a dog and in some cases it is not and we live in the result of what happens when dogs are not treated properly and what happens when they

turn. ~ . «a properly and what happens when they turn. ~ . ., ., properly and what happens when they turn. ~ ., ., ., . turn. mr, thanks again. we pay tribute to jack, _ turn. mr, thanks again. we pay tribute to jack, who _ turn. mr, thanks again. we pay tribute to jack, who sounds - turn. mr, thanks again. we pay tribute to jack, who sounds like | turn. mr, thanks again. we pay. tribute to jack, who sounds like a wonderful little boy. thank you for coming on. wonderful little boy. thank you for coming on— wonderful little boy. thank you for cominu on. . ~' ., ., coming on. thank you for having me. talkin: coming on. thank you for having me. talking about — coming on. thank you for having me. talking about the _ coming on. thank you for having me. talking about the xl _ coming on. thank you for having me. talking about the xl bully. _ coming on. thank you for having me. talking about the xl bully. hello, - talking about the xl bully. hello, cannot. and look in manchester and gay in south london. look, you have one. tell me more.— one. tell me more. she's beautiful, she is a dream. _ one. tell me more. she's beautiful, she is a dream. she _ one. tell me more. she's beautiful, she is a dream. she is _ one. tell me more. she's beautiful, she is a dream. she is a _ one. tell me more. she's beautiful, she is a dream. she is a dream. - one. tell me more. she's beautiful, j she is a dream. she is a dream. she is the xl bully. she is just over two years old now, a common misconception people have with them is that they do have a bit of a

presence and do, sometimes can look intimidating, but it was back to the fact that it is how you bring them up, how they are raised. if you raise your dog to be dangerous then it will be dangerous, if you don't look after it properly will be dangerous. if you raise it right the denture is not going to be. is dangerous. if you raise it right the denture is not going to be. is there an hint denture is not going to be. is there anything innately — denture is not going to be. is there anything innately aggressive - denture is not going to be. is there anything innately aggressive about| anything innately aggressive about this dog? this is usually a contentious issue, some people say it is absolutely 100% the owner and others say it is absolutely the dog with a bad owner but the dog has a potential and a propensity and possibility to behave like this because of the way it's built on bread, because other dogs are bred to chase, some are bred to fetch, whether it be diving in and getting a fishnet, labradors originally, they have the instinct, all dogs have instincts that are bred into them, does this talk can a violent instinct at all that can lurk? absolute drivel, has not got a violence in it. it goes down to how

you train the dog. the way they've been brought up comedy temperament has been bred out of them, so they are called a xl bully, i believe the band pit bull, it was bred from that but that temperament has been bred out of them. everybody has an instinct... every dog has an instinct, but this is not a violent dog and i don't believe they are violent. ., ., ., , , . , violent. how would it happen? why does that happen? _ violent. how would it happen? why does that happen? what _ violent. how would it happen? why does that happen? what is - violent. how would it happen? why does that happen? what is it - violent. how would it happen? why does that happen? what is it aboutj does that happen? what is it about the lack of training? you are a responsible dog owner, feel that you love your dog and you have trained your dog properly. do you think these dogs have been trained? someone is enjoying it. have these dogs been trained to be violent or have these dogs not been trained at all? ., . ., �*

have these dogs not been trained at all? ., _, �* ., , have these dogs not been trained at all? ., �* ., , all? no, i couldn't really comment on that. i take _ all? no, i couldn't really comment on that. i take my _ all? no, i couldn't really comment on that. i take my dog _ all? no, i couldn't really comment on that. i take my dog to - all? no, i couldn't really comment on that. i take my dog to training. on that. i take my dog to training classes, i am aware that may be other people are training them for defence, for protection, which probably brings you onto the earlier point about instincts. i think if you train your dog like that, yes, it will be dangerous. that you train your dog like that, yes, it will be dangerous.— it will be dangerous. that is beating — it will be dangerous. that is heating. hannah, _ it will be dangerous. that is heating. hannah, if- it will be dangerous. that is heating. hannah, if you - it will be dangerous. that is heating. hannah, if you are| it will be dangerous. that is - heating. hannah, if you are training a dog for protection, it will train -- we bred them, if we go right back, to -- we bred them, if we go right back. to go _ -- we bred them, if we go right back, to go after _ -- we bred them, if we go right back, to go after bills. - -- we bred them, if we go right back, to go after bills. that's i -- we bred them, if we go right i back, to go after bills. that's what they got their name from. they were bred to tenderise meat. and then we bread them to fight with other dogs.

we can't really ignore that in their breed history, but the truth is, yes, we have to recognise xl bully have pit bull genetics in them, they have pit bull genetics in them, they have been crossbred because there is a huge swathe of canine fertility clinics that have been allowed to just continue to operate and create lots of really big dogs, however, the researchers also really clear that there is more variance with any breed than there are between breeds, so you cannot tar every dog that looks a certain way with the same genetic brush, they are all completely different. i will carry out and see dogs will do what they're breed sort of tells them to do when they get stressed, i have a cocker spaniel, if you see somebody at the door and that gives him excitement then he will go and pick up excitement then he will go and pick up something and put it in his mouth because that's what his genetics will tell him to do. so there is that game nice with xl bullies, with all bulldogs, with star fees, that they want to pick stuff up. we have

to be mindful of that, but i think we are dangerously oversimplifying the problem of dangerous dogs in the uk by over focusing the problem of dangerous dogs in the uk by overfocusing on the problem of dangerous dogs in the uk by over focusing on xl bully as the big problem. i don't think they are, i think it is a much wider cultural issue.— are, i think it is a much wider cultural issue. cultural issue? absolutely- — cultural issue. cultural issue? absolutely. we've _ cultural issue. cultural issue? absolutely. we've been i cultural issue. cultural issue? absolutely. we've been doing cultural issue. cultural issue? i absolutely. we've been doing a series of events in parliament to really look at this in more detail, and emma is actually coming to our part three solutions event, so it was lovely to hear from her, part three solutions event, so it was lovely to hearfrom her, she will be presenting on the 6th of junein will be presenting on the 6th of june in westminster with their team, and we looked at all of the evidence in november and and we looked at all of the evidence in novemberand in and we looked at all of the evidence in november and in march, and we looked at all of the evidence in novemberand in march, and and we looked at all of the evidence in november and in march, and looked at what is happening from a statistical perspective, we looked at why it is happening and we asked loads of experts is that the dogs? are we living with a generation of dogs that is more scary and dangerous and aggressive than ever? lockdown has a part in it, people just getting dogs are responsibly in thinking that is great, happy dog now and then... it

thinking that is great, happy dog now and then. . ._ thinking that is great, happy dog now and then... it has made a bad roblem now and then... it has made a bad problem worse. — now and then... it has made a bad problem worse, the _ now and then... it has made a bad problem worse, the truth - now and then... it has made a bad problem worse, the truth is - now and then... it has made a bad problem worse, the truth is dog i problem worse, the truth is dog bites have increased for the last 30 years, tripled in fact across a range of breeds, so actually we have a huge problem across the uk, is costing us £777 million a year to deal with the folly of dog bites. the death statistics are terrifying, absolutely, but the dog bite statistics have been going consistently for 30 years. so it is a huge issue that we really need a broad range of solutions to fix. abs, broad range of solutions to fix. a couple of texts, these dogs attack for whatever reason, you have no chance because of their size and power. it's too late, once they have attacked, people should use common sense, they dangerous dogs. not worth the risk. people don't realise it takes eight generations of teaching to change adult�*s instincts, what makes it very hard. that makes it very hard to make a

violent breed passive, dave and cheltenham. another one, never heard of or seen a xl bully, google them for a picture, they all have courtiers. good point, the one i saw the other day had cut years and that sort of mutilation is a legal which makes you ask very valid questions about the provenance of the dog in the first place. don't you think? yes, absolutely, if you google the picture _ yes, absolutely, if you google the picture and see the cropped ears and makes _ picture and see the cropped ears and makes the _ picture and see the cropped ears and makes the dog look fierce and scary, certainty— makes the dog look fierce and scary, certainly the ones i have trained with don't— certainly the ones i have trained with don't have cropped ears and look with don't have cropped ears and took a _ with don't have cropped ears and took a bit — with don't have cropped ears and look a bit softer and fluffier, if bit more — look a bit softer and fluffier, if bit more cuddly. i think on the back of rachet's— bit more cuddly. i think on the back of rachel's point there about the working — of rachel's point there about the working group, i think it is great news. _ working group, i think it is great news. and — working group, i think it is great news, and there is lots of legislation and certainly where i live in— legislation and certainly where i live in midlothian, there is dog to everywhere. you can get a fine for

that. _ everywhere. you can get a fine for that, leaving dog to line, but it is out of _ that, leaving dog to line, but it is out of control. i look at midlothian in particular where i live, there is one dog — in particular where i live, there is one dog warden for an estimated 30.000 — one dog warden for an estimated 30,000 dogs, so i think part of the solution _ 30,000 dogs, so i think part of the solution would be, and this is a little _ solution would be, and this is a little bit — solution would be, and this is a little bit controversial, but licensing. i rememberfondly little bit controversial, but licensing. i remember fondly myself my first _ licensing. i remember fondly myself my first ever dog as a child, slightly— my first ever dog as a child, slightly showing my age here but i was 37— slightly showing my age here but i was 37 and a half p for my first ever— was 37 and a half p for my first ever dog — was 37 and a half p for my first ever dog and you had to go to the post office — ever dog and you had to go to the post office and get a license and that was — post office and get a license and that was quite a proud and exciting moment— that was quite a proud and exciting moment for a child with their first dog. _ moment for a child with their first dog. but— moment fora child with their first dog. but i— moment for a child with their first dog, but i think we could raise revenue — dog, but i think we could raise revenue so _ dog, but i think we could raise revenue so that any legislation that has changed comes into force is actually— has changed comes into force is actually workable and there is people — actually workable and there is people they are to carry it forward and do _ people they are to carry it forward and do something about it. so there is no _ and do something about it. so there is no point _ and do something about it. so there is no point in— and do something about it. so there is no point in producing legislation and making the changes if there is not the _ and making the changes if there is not the people with feet on the ground — not the people with feet on the ground to enforce it.—

not the people with feet on the ground to enforce it. another issue, art of it ground to enforce it. another issue, part of it for — ground to enforce it. another issue, part of it for irresponsible _ ground to enforce it. another issue, part of it for irresponsible owners, l part of it for irresponsible owners, you see people looking around to see if no one is looking so they cannot pick up the mess, drives me mad. i pick up the mess, drives me mad. i think we whole debate about dangerous— think we whole debate about dangerous dogs— think we whole debate about dangerous dogs is— think we whole debate about dangerous dogs is very - think we whole debate about i dangerous dogs is very polarising and i_ dangerous dogs is very polarising and i cannot— dangerous dogs is very polarising and i cannot see _ dangerous dogs is very polarising and i cannot see anyone - dangerous dogs is very polarising and i cannot see anyone on- dangerous dogs is very polarising| and i cannot see anyone on either side of— and i cannot see anyone on either side of the — and i cannot see anyone on either side of the debate _ and i cannot see anyone on either side of the debate actually - and i cannot see anyone on either| side of the debate actually coming to some _ side of the debate actually coming to some sort — side of the debate actually coming to some sort of _ side of the debate actually coming to some sort of agreement, - side of the debate actually coming to some sort of agreement, but. side of the debate actually coming i to some sort of agreement, but what we can— to some sort of agreement, but what we can all— to some sort of agreement, but what we can all agree _ to some sort of agreement, but what we can all agree on _ to some sort of agreement, but what we can all agree on is _ to some sort of agreement, but what we can all agree on is responsible i we can all agree on is responsible doi we can all agree on is responsible dog ownership. _ we can all agree on is responsible dog ownership. the _ we can all agree on is responsible dog ownership. the old _ we can all agree on is responsible dog ownership. the old dog - we can all agree on is responsible. dog ownership. the old dog licence didn't— dog ownership. the old dog licence didn't work— dog ownership. the old dog licence didn't work because _ dog ownership. the old dog licence didn't work because it _ dog ownership. the old dog licence didn't work because it was - dog ownership. the old dog licence didn't work because it was never. didn't work because it was never enforced. — didn't work because it was never enforced. but _ didn't work because it was never enforced, but now— didn't work because it was never enforced, but now with - didn't work because it was never enforced, but now with modernl enforced, but now with modern technology. _ enforced, but now with modern technology. if— enforced, but now with modern technology, if all— enforced, but now with modern technology, if all breeders i enforced, but now with modern technology, if all breeders had| enforced, but now with modern i technology, if all breeders had to register— technology, if all breeders had to register the — technology, if all breeders had to register the dna _ technology, if all breeders had to register the dna of— technology, if all breeders had to register the dna of the _ technology, if all breeders had to register the dna of the dog, i technology, if all breeders had to register the dna of the dog, a i register the dna of the dog, a one-off— register the dna of the dog, a one—off lifetime _ register the dna of the dog, a one—off lifetime fee _ register the dna of the dog, a one—off lifetime fee and - register the dna of the dog, a one—off lifetime fee and the i register the dna of the dog, a i one—off lifetime fee and the owner should _ one—off lifetime fee and the owner should then. — one—off lifetime fee and the owner should then, all— one—off lifetime fee and the owner should then, all owners _ one—off lifetime fee and the owner should then, all owners should i one—off lifetime fee and the owner. should then, all owners should have third party— should then, all owners should have third party liability— should then, all owners should have third party liability insurance - should then, all owners should have third party liability insurance and i third party liability insurance and then they— third party liability insurance and then they can— third party liability insurance and then they can be _ third party liability insurance and then they can be held _ third party liability insurance and l then they can be held responsible for the _ then they can be held responsible for the actions _ then they can be held responsible for the actions of _ then they can be held responsible for the actions of their— then they can be held responsible for the actions of their dogs. i then they can be held responsible for the actions of their dogs. we. for the actions of their dogs. we don't _ for the actions of their dogs. we don't need — for the actions of their dogs. we don't need to— for the actions of their dogs. we don't need to do— for the actions of their dogs. we don't need to do further- for the actions of their dogs. we | don't need to do further research into why— don't need to do further research into why dogs _ don't need to do further research into why dogs bite _ don't need to do further research into why dogs bite just _ don't need to do further research into why dogs bite just hold - don't need to do further research i into why dogs bite just hold people accountable. — into why dogs bite just hold people

accountable. like _ into why dogs bite just hold people accountable. like driving _ into why dogs bite just hold people accountable. like driving a - into why dogs bite just hold people accountable. like driving a car. i accountable. like driving a car. have _ accountable. like driving a car. have you — accountable. like driving a car. have you experienced - accountable. like driving a car. have you experienced anythingj accountable. like driving a car. - have you experienced anything when it comes to your dogs, tax or anything?— it comes to your dogs, tax or an hint? , , ., ,, anything? yes, my dog was killed in 2018, and anything? yes, my dog was killed in 2018. and that — anything? yes, my dog was killed in 2018, and that is _ anything? yes, my dog was killed in 2018, and that is why _ anything? yes, my dog was killed in 2018, and that is why | _ anything? yes, my dog was killed in 2018, and that is why i started i anything? yes, my dog was killed in 2018, and that is why i started the . 2018, and that is why i started the facebook— 2018, and that is why i started the facebook group _ 2018, and that is why i started the facebook group protect _ 2018, and that is why i started the facebook group protect our- 2018, and that is why i started the facebook group protect our pets. . facebook group protect our pets. 0riginatty— facebook group protect our pets. originally i — facebook group protect our pets. originally i was _ facebook group protect our pets. originally i was looking _ facebook group protect our pets. originally i was looking for- facebook group protect our pets. i originally i was looking for support myself. _ originally i was looking for support myself. it— originally i was looking for support myself. it was— originally i was looking for support myself. it was a _ originally i was looking for support myself, it was a very _ originally i was looking for support myself, it was a very traumatic i myself, it was a very traumatic experience. _ myself, it was a very traumatic experience. i_ myself, it was a very traumatic experience, i found _ myself, it was a very traumatic experience, i found none. - myself, it was a very traumatic - experience, ifound none. everyone was advocating _ experience, ifound none. everyone was advocating on _ experience, ifound none. everyone was advocating on support - experience, ifound none. everyone was advocating on support of- experience, ifound none. everyone was advocating on support of the i was advocating on support of the aggressive — was advocating on support of the aggressive dogs _ was advocating on support of the aggressive dogs and _ was advocating on support of the aggressive dogs and creating - was advocating on support of the - aggressive dogs and creating excuses for the _ aggressive dogs and creating excuses for the dog _ aggressive dogs and creating excuses for the dog because _ aggressive dogs and creating excuses for the dog because my— aggressive dogs and creating excuses for the dog because my behaviour- for the dog because my behaviour etc, so— for the dog because my behaviour etc, so i_ for the dog because my behaviour etc, so i started _ for the dog because my behaviour etc, so i started this— for the dog because my behaviour etc, so i started this group- for the dog because my behaviour etc, so i started this group and i etc, so i started this group and quickly— etc, so i started this group and quickly grew. _ etc, so i started this group and quickly grew. '— etc, so i started this group and quickly grew, i started - etc, so i started this group and quickly grew, i started in - etc, so i started this group and quickly grew, i started in 2018| etc, so i started this group and . quickly grew, i started in 2018 and we have _ quickly grew, i started in 2018 and we have about _ quickly grew, i started in 2018 and we have about 1700 _ quickly grew, i started in 2018 and we have about 1700 members - quickly grew, i started in 2018 and| we have about 1700 members now, quickly grew, i started in 2018 and - we have about 1700 members now, many have come _ we have about 1700 members now, many have come and _ we have about 1700 members now, many have come and left _ we have about 1700 members now, many have come and left because _ we have about 1700 members now, many have come and left because they- have come and left because they don't _ have come and left because they don't want — have come and left because they don't want to _ have come and left because they don't want to read _ have come and left because they don't want to read about - have come and left because they don't want to read about these l don't want to read about these attacks — don't want to read about these attacks every— don't want to read about these attacks every day, _ don't want to read about these attacks every day, so - don't want to read about these attacks every day, so we - don't want to read about these i attacks every day, so we provide support — attacks every day, so we provide sopport to — attacks every day, so we provide sopport to people. _ attacks every day, so we provide support to people, provide - attacks every day, so we provide support to people, provide on. attacks every day, so we provide l support to people, provide on how attacks every day, so we provide - support to people, provide on how to deal with— support to people, provide on how to deal with the — support to people, provide on how to deal with the police, _ support to people, provide on how to deal with the police, people - support to people, provide on how to deal with the police, people that - deal with the police, people that are generally— deal with the police, people that are generally very— deal with the police, people that are generally very shocked - deal with the police, people that are generally very shocked to . deal with the police, people that i are generally very shocked to hear that a _ are generally very shocked to hear that a dog — are generally very shocked to hear that a dog on _ are generally very shocked to hear that a dog on dog _ are generally very shocked to hear that a dog on dog attack— are generally very shocked to hear that a dog on dog attack is - are generally very shocked to hear that a dog on dog attack is not- are generally very shocked to hear that a dog on dog attack is not a l that a dog on dog attack is not a criminal— that a dog on dog attack is not a criminal offence. _ that a dog on dog attack is not a criminal offence. [it— that a dog on dog attack is not a criminal offence. [it is _ criminal offence. it is extraordinary. - criminal offence. it is extraordinary. it- criminal offence. it is extraordinary. it is. l criminal offence. it is - extraordinary. it is. there is no value on _ extraordinary. it is. there is no value on the — extraordinary. it is. there is no value on the dog. _ extraordinary. it is. there is no

value on the dog. the - extraordinary. it is. there is no value on the dog. the last - extraordinary. it is. there is no - value on the dog. the last research that was— value on the dog. the last research that was done — value on the dog. the last research that was done and _ value on the dog. the last research that was done and i— value on the dog. the last research that was done and i think— value on the dog. the last research that was done and i think 2018 - value on the dog. the last research that was done and i think 2018 by. that was done and i think 2018 by direct— that was done and i think 2018 by direct tine. — that was done and i think 2018 by direct line, they— that was done and i think 2018 by direct line, they reckon _ that was done and i think 2018 by direct line, they reckon over- that was done and i think 2018 by. direct line, they reckon over 64,000 do-s direct line, they reckon over 64,000 dogs are _ direct line, they reckon over 64,000 dogs are kitted — direct line, they reckon over 64,000 dogs are killed each _ direct line, they reckon over 64,000 dogs are killed each year, _ direct line, they reckon over 64,000 dogs are killed each year, 45,000 i dogs are killed each year, 45,000 have _ dogs are killed each year, 45,000 have life _ dogs are killed each year, 45,000 have life changing _ dogs are killed each year, 45,000 have life changing injuries- dogs are killed each year, 45,000 have life changing injuries and - have life changing injuries and about — have life changing injuries and about £458 _ have life changing injuries and about £458 million _ have life changing injuries and about £458 million are - have life changing injuries and about £458 million are spent. have life changing injuries and i about £458 million are spent on have life changing injuries and - about £458 million are spent on vet fees _ about £458 million are spent on vet fees so— about £458 million are spent on vet fees so it's — about £458 million are spent on vet fees so it's an— about £458 million are spent on vet fees. so it's an extraordinary- fees. so it's an extraordinary probtenr~ _ fees. so it's an extraordinary probtenr~ we _ fees. so it's an extraordinary problem. we have _ fees. so it's an extraordinary problem. we have been - fees. so it's an extraordinary- problem. we have been campaigning since 2018— problem. we have been campaigning since 2018 and — problem. we have been campaigning since 2018 and no _ problem. we have been campaigning since 2018 and no one _ problem. we have been campaigning since 2018 and no one wants - problem. we have been campaigning since 2018 and no one wants to - since 2018 and no one wants to address— since 2018 and no one wants to address this _ since 2018 and no one wants to address this issue. _ since 2018 and no one wants to address this issue.— since 2018 and no one wants to address this issue. very quickly, lenin and marx _ address this issue. very quickly, lenin and marx coming - address this issue. very quickly, lenin and marx coming up, - address this issue. very quickly, lenin and marx coming up, a - address this issue. very quickly, - lenin and marx coming up, a terrible thing you went through —— len and mark. gray my dog was killed, a dog came racing out of the bushes... and came racing out of the bushes... and charued came racing out of the bushes... and charged towards my dog, slip the leash, _ charged towards my dog, slip the leash, it — charged towards my dog, slip the leash, it was _ charged towards my dog, slip the leash, it was on _ charged towards my dog, slip the leash, it was on a _ charged towards my dog, slip the leash, it was on a leash - charged towards my dog, slip the leash, it was on a leash the - charged towards my dog, slip thej leash, it was on a leash the other dog. _ leash, it was on a leash the other dog. picked — leash, it was on a leash the other dog. picked up— leash, it was on a leash the other dog. picked up my— leash, it was on a leash the other dog. picked up my dog _ leash, it was on a leash the other dog, picked up my dog and - leash, it was on a leash the other dog, picked up my dog and shook leash, it was on a leash the other. dog, picked up my dog and shook it like a _ dog, picked up my dog and shook it like a rag _ dog, picked up my dog and shook it like a rag dott~ _ dog, picked up my dog and shook it like a rag dott~ my— dog, picked up my dog and shook it like a rag doll. my husband - dog, picked up my dog and shook it like a rag doll. my husband had - dog, picked up my dog and shook it like a rag doll. my husband had to. like a rag doll. my husband had to carry— like a rag doll. my husband had to carry a _ like a rag doll. my husband had to carry a bleeding _ like a rag doll. my husband had to carry a bleeding dog _ like a rag doll. my husband had to carry a bleeding dog back- like a rag doll. my husband had to carry a bleeding dog back to - like a rag doll. my husband had to carry a bleeding dog back to the l like a rag doll. my husband had to. carry a bleeding dog back to the car and back— carry a bleeding dog back to the car and back to — carry a bleeding dog back to the car and back to the _ carry a bleeding dog back to the car and back to the vet _ carry a bleeding dog back to the car and back to the vet when _ carry a bleeding dog back to the car and back to the vet when i - carry a bleeding dog back to the car and back to the vet when i met - carry a bleeding dog back to the car. and back to the vet when i met them but there _ and back to the vet when i met them but there was — and back to the vet when i met them but there was nothing _ and back to the vet when i met them but there was nothing they _ and back to the vet when i met them but there was nothing they could - and back to the vet when i met them but there was nothing they could doi but there was nothing they could do so they— but there was nothing they could do so they euthanised _ but there was nothing they could do so they euthanised a _ but there was nothing they could do so they euthanised a dog _ so they euthanised a dog straightaway— so they euthanised a dog

straightaway but - so they euthanised a dog straightaway but i - so they euthanised a dog straightaway but i can . so they euthanised a dog i straightaway but i can tell so they euthanised a dog - straightaway but i can tell you for elderly _ straightaway but i can tell you for elderly peopte _ straightaway but i can tell you for elderly people and _ straightaway but i can tell you for elderly people and children, - straightaway but i can tell you for. elderly people and children, seeing a much _ elderly people and children, seeing a much loved — elderly people and children, seeing a much loved dog _ elderly people and children, seeing a much loved dog ripped _ elderly people and children, seeing a much loved dog ripped to- elderly people and children, seeing a much loved dog ripped to piecesi elderly people and children, seeing i a much loved dog ripped to pieces in front of— a much loved dog ripped to pieces in front of their — a much loved dog ripped to pieces in front of their eyes _ a much loved dog ripped to pieces in front of their eyes is _ a much loved dog ripped to pieces in front of their eyes is incredibly- front of their eyes is incredibly dranratic, _ front of their eyes is incredibly dramatic, and _ front of their eyes is incredibly dramatic, and the _ front of their eyes is incredibly. dramatic, and the consequences front of their eyes is incredibly- dramatic, and the consequences are lon- dramatic, and the consequences are tong tasting — dramatic, and the consequences are tong tasting it — dramatic, and the consequences are long lasting. it has _ dramatic, and the consequences are long lasting. it has to— dramatic, and the consequences are long lasting. it has to stop. - dramatic, and the consequences are long lasting. it has to stop. iirilt�*hait. long lasting. it has to stop. what sort of dog _ long lasting. it has to stop. what sort of dog was _ long lasting. it has to stop. what sort of dog was this _ long lasting. it has to stop. what sort of dog was this that - long lasting. it has to stop.- sort of dog was this that attacked? the dog that attacked was an akita and mine _ the dog that attacked was an akita and mine was— the dog that attacked was an akita and mine was a— the dog that attacked was an akita and mine was a jacopo, _ the dog that attacked was an akita and mine was a jacopo, a - the dog that attacked was an akita and mine was a jacopo, a small- and mine was a jacopo, a small jacopo. — and mine was a jacopo, a small jaco o. . and mine was a jacopo, a small jacoo. , ., ., ,, ., jacopo. lets go to mark, who has rescued a xl _ jacopo. lets go to mark, who has rescued a xl bully. _ jacopo. lets go to mark, who has rescued a xl bully. you - jacopo. lets go to mark, who has rescued a xl bully. you rescued. | jacopo. lets go to mark, who has i rescued a xl bully. you rescued. did this dog have a history that you had to cater for, this dog have a history that you had to caterfor, deal with? yes. this dog have a history that you had to cater for, deal with?— to cater for, deal with? yes. we rescued him _ to cater for, deal with? yes. we rescued him from _ to cater for, deal with? yes. we rescued him from up _ to cater for, deal with? yes. we rescued him from up north - to cater for, deal with? yes. we rescued him from up north and l to cater for, deal with? yes. we - rescued him from up north and they had him fighting other dogs, so obviously he came within issue, but other than that, he has not got one

ounce of aggression towards people, in fact it is the other way around. unfortunately there are big dogs that have massive presence, granted, but they give them a bad press before we even start. it is a terrible thing to do. the scaremongering before we even get to know the speed and i have had six and half years of other breeds and this is one of the best pizza i have ever come across. they deserve a chance. —— best breeds. we need to start licensing people with dogs and especially as you have said, dangerous dogs. even with that. lats dangerous dogs. even with that. lots of --eole dangerous dogs. even with that. lots of peeple agree _ dangerous dogs. even with that. lots of people agree with you and the ones that are banned, pit bull terrier and others, but tell me about your dog and his or her

temperament. he's a boy, elvis, about three years of age, and all he is interested in is total cuddling, they are like 2 euros children, they really are glad they interact so well, they are beautiful dogs. he has got a great temperament, he loves children, people, the only issue as i said is other dogs. people, the only issue as i said is other dogs-— other dogs. would you leave him alone with _ other dogs. would you leave him alone with a _ other dogs. would you leave him alone with a child? _ other dogs. would you leave him alone with a child? all _ other dogs. would you leave him alone with a child? all day - other dogs. would you leave him alone with a child? all day long. | alone with a child? all day long. and i alone with a child? all day long. and i really _ alone with a child? all day long. and i really mean _ alone with a child? all day long. and i really mean that. - alone with a child? all day long. and i really mean that. saying l alone with a child? all day long. - and i really mean that. saying that, i trust him to, i will go back on that, i trust him to come up but i would not leave any dog with a child, to be honest with you. i go back on what ijust child, to be honest with you. i go back on what i just said, child, to be honest with you. i go back on what ijust said, and that is not because of him, but i wouldn't leave any dog with a child. i would leave my labrador with a

child and my westie with 100% confidence. child and my westie with 10096 confidence.— confidence. yes, but we know children. _ confidence. yes, but we know children, they _ confidence. yes, but we know children, they like _ confidence. yes, but we know children, they like pulling - confidence. yes, but we know| children, they like pulling ears confidence. yes, but we know - children, they like pulling ears and noses, anything can happen. sol wouldn't leave any dog with a child. a young child, fair enough, yeah. listen, kim, that was important we heard from you on that, and kim in margate, how many bulldogs do you have? hi. margate, how many bulldogs do you have? . i margate, how many bulldogs do you have?_ i am _ margate, how many bulldogs do you have?_ i am seeing - margate, how many bulldogs do you have?_ i am seeing you have? hi, i have 13. i am seeing you on the screen. _ have? hi, i have 13. i am seeing you on the screen, what _ have? hi, i have 13. i am seeing you on the screen, what is _ have? hi, i have 13. i am seeing you on the screen, what is that - have? hi, i have 13. i am seeing you on the screen, what is that you - have? hi, i have 13. i am seeing you on the screen, what is that you have got beside you? this on the screen, what is that you have got beside you?— got beside you? this is lucio, she is an xl bullv- _ got beside you? this is lucio, she is an xl bully. wow, _ got beside you? this is lucio, she is an xl bully. wow, what - got beside you? this is lucio, she is an xl bully. wow, what a - got beside you? this is lucio, she i is an xl bully. wow, what a tongue, look at that. — is an xl bully. wow, what a tongue, look at that, let _ is an xl bully. wow, what a tongue, look at that, let me _ is an xl bully. wow, what a tongue, look at that, let me just _ is an xl bully. wow, what a tongue, look at that, let me just describe i look at that, let me just describe it, she looks playful. she look at that, let me just describe it, she looks playful.— it, she looks playful. she is, she is ve , it, she looks playful. she is, she is very. very _ it, she looks playful. she is, she is very, very loving, _ it, she looks playful. she is, she is very, very loving, as - it, she looks playful. she is, she is very, very loving, as you - it, she looks playful. she is, she is very, very loving, as you can l is very, very loving, as you can see. ,, , y is very, very loving, as you can see. ,, , , ., is very, very loving, as you can see. ., , y ., ., see. she is trying to lick you all over. see. she is trying to lick you all over- how _ see. she is trying to lick you all over. how did _ see. she is trying to lick you all over. how did you _ see. she is trying to lick you all over. how did you get - see. she is trying to lick you all over. how did you get her? - see. she is trying to lick you all i over. how did you get her? good uirl! she over. how did you get her? good girl! she has _ over. how did you get her? good girl! she has got _ over. how did you get her? good girl! she has got her _ over. how did you get her? good girl! she has got her ears, - over. how did you get her? good girl! she has got her ears, which is

encouraging — girl! she has got her ears, which is encouraging as well, she hasn't had her rhea's~~ — encouraging as well, she hasn't had her rhea's...| encouraging as well, she hasn't had her rhea's- - -_ encouraging as well, she hasn't had her rhea's. .. i beg your pardon? she has not her rhea's. .. i beg your pardon? she has got her — her rhea's. .. i beg your pardon? she has got her ears _ her rhea's. .. i beg your pardon? she has got her ears intact, _ her rhea's. .. i beg your pardon? she has got her ears intact, which - her rhea's. .. i beg your pardon? she has got her ears intact, which is - has got her ears intact, which is encouraging. has got her ears intact, which is encouraging-— has got her ears intact, which is encouraging. yes. lively, there is a touch of the — encouraging. yes. lively, there is a touch of the puppy about her. where did you get herfrom and why did you get...? she is a rescue, so what history does she have?_ get...? she is a rescue, so what history does she have? yes, she was rescued from — history does she have? yes, she was rescued from a _ history does she have? yes, she was rescued from a previous _ history does she have? yes, she was rescued from a previous owner, - history does she have? yes, she was rescued from a previous owner, the l rescued from a previous owner, the previous— rescued from a previous owner, the previous owner didn't want her, for whatever— previous owner didn't want her, for whatever reasons, you know, she came here a _ whatever reasons, you know, she came here a residential for training, whatever reasons, you know, she came here a residentialfortraining, so, at the _ here a residentialfortraining, so, at the end — here a residentialfortraining, so, at the end of the residential, she was left — at the end of the residential, she was left. she was left with me. so, i was left. she was left with me. so, i have _ was left. she was left with me. so, i have had — was left. she was left with me. so, i have had her now... find was left. she was left with me. so, i have had her now...— i have had her now... and the irony is a... i have had her now... and the irony is a--- nearly _ i have had her now... and the irony is a... nearly a _ i have had her now... and the irony is a... nearly a year. _ i have had her now. .. and the irony is a... nearly a year. i _ i have had her now... and the irony is a... nearly a year. i have - i have had her now... and the irony is a... nearly a year. i have been i is a... nearly a year. i have been t in: to is a. .. nearly a year. i have been trying to look— is a... nearly a year. i have been trying to look for _ is a... nearly a year. i have been trying to look for a _ is a... nearly a year. i have been trying to look for a home - is a... nearly a year. i have been trying to look for a home for - is a... nearly a year. i have been trying to look for a home for her| trying to look for a home for her but i _ trying to look for a home for her but i have — trying to look for a home for her but i have also kept her, you know, as part _ but i have also kept her, you know, as part of _ but i have also kept her, you know, as part of my— but i have also kept her, you know, as part of my pack, and she is beautiful, _ as part of my pack, and she is beautiful, she would make a beautiful, she would make a beautiful pet for anybody. she came

from a _ beautiful pet for anybody. she came from a family with a young child, she is— from a family with a young child, she is used — from a family with a young child, she is used to living indoors, as a family— she is used to living indoors, as a family unit — she is used to living indoors, as a family unit. and she is... she is a bil family unit. and she is... she is a big softy. — family unit. and she is... she is a big softy. she _ family unit. and she is... she is a big softy, she is absolutely... are --eole big softy, she is absolutely... the people frightened of her when you are walking? the people frightened of her when you are walking?— are walking? the size of her, yes. the size of— are walking? the size of her, yes. the size of any — are walking? the size of her, yes. the size of any dog _ are walking? the size of her, yes. the size of any dog such - are walking? the size of her, yes. the size of any dog such as - are walking? the size of her, yes. the size of any dog such as her, l the size of any dog such as her, this size. — the size of any dog such as her, this size. is _ the size of any dog such as her, this size, is intimidating. but she is a big _ this size, is intimidating. but she is a big softy. this size, is intimidating. but she is a big softy-— is a big softy. you are getting licked all over. _ is a big softy. you are getting licked all over. she _ is a big softy. you are getting licked all over. she is - is a big softy. you are getting licked all over. she is a - is a big softy. you are getting licked all over. she is a big i is a big softy. you are getting i licked all over. she is a big size of a girl. _ licked all over. she is a big size of a girl. she — licked all over. she is a big size of a girl, she is _ licked all over. she is a big size of a girl, she is lovely. - licked all over. she is a big size of a girl, she is lovely. she - licked all over. she is a big size of a girl, she is lovely. she has| of a girl, she is lovely. she has -ot of a girl, she is lovely. she has got good — of a girl, she is lovely. she has got good temperament, i have never seen a _ got good temperament, i have never seen a bad _ got good temperament, i have never seen a bad streak in her yet. she gets— seen a bad streak in her yet. she gets on— seen a bad streak in her yet. she gets on with the other dogs, she -ets gets on with the other dogs, she gets on— gets on with the other dogs, she gets on with the other dogs, she gets on with dogs outside my she loves _ gets on with dogs outside my she loves people. i mean, i have had a litter— loves people. i mean, i have had a litter of— loves people. i mean, i have had a litter of puppies recently in the

last six— litter of puppies recently in the last six months from my other bulldogs. _ last six months from my other bulldogs, she has actually nurtured the puppies and loved them to pieces — the puppies and loved them to ieces. . . . i the puppies and loved them to pieces._ i have - the puppies and loved them to pieces._ i have not i the puppies and loved them to l pieces._ i have not had the puppies and loved them to i pieces._ i have not had a pieces. has she? i have not had a any problems _ pieces. has she? i have not had a any problems with _ pieces. has she? i have not had a any problems with her. _ pieces. has she? i have not had a any problems with her. watching | pieces. has she? i have not had a i any problems with her. watching her on the screen _ any problems with her. watching her on the screen trying _ any problems with her. watching her on the screen trying to _ any problems with her. watching her on the screen trying to lick _ any problems with her. watching her on the screen trying to lick your- on the screen trying to lick your face and kiss your face. she on the screen trying to lick your face and kiss your face.- face and kiss your face. she is lovina. face and kiss your face. she is loving- i _ face and kiss your face. she is loving- i can — face and kiss your face. she is loving. i can see _ face and kiss your face. she is loving. i can see that. - face and kiss your face. she is loving. i can see that. i i face and kiss your face. she is loving. i can see that. i train l face and kiss your face. she is i loving. i can see that. i train the owners of _ loving. i can see that. i train the owners of xl _ loving. i can see that. i train the owners of xl bullies _ loving. i can see that. i train the owners of xl bullies has - loving. i can see that. i train the l owners of xl bullies has welcome loving. i can see that. i train the i owners of xl bullies has welcome to be more _ owners of xl bullies has welcome to be more responsible, regarding, you know. _ be more responsible, regarding, you know. the _ be more responsible, regarding, you know, the ownership of the dog. i know, the ownership of the dog. [ want know, the ownership of the dog. want to know, the ownership of the dog. i want to pick up on that with you in a few minutes because that is interesting that you speak to the owners as well. we will come back to that. we are talking xl bullies this morning, it is 10.35.

and here is the news, from nick hatfield. thank you, nicky, good morning. a crucial meeting will take place this lunchtime when the government is expected to agree to a 5% pay increase for nhs workers. but members of the royal college of nursing and unite have rejected the offer which also includes a cash lump sum for last year. ministers will meet health bosses and union representatives. the national education union says it's very likely that three strike days planned for latejune and early july will go ahead. teachers in england have walked out today in their ongoing dispute over pay. the government insists they've put forward a "fair and reasonable" offer. bp has reported better than expected profits of £4 billion for the first quarter of the year. but the figure is down by about a billion on last year, as oil prices drop from their peak after russia attacked ukraine. the cost of a food shop should start to come down in the next few months, according to the organisation which represents supermarkets. figures from the british retail consortium show grocery prices in april were up 15.7% compared

to the same time last year. time to get the sport now, with katie smith. breaking news — leeds united are set to sack managerjavi gracia and are in talks to appoint former england boss sam allardyce as his replacement. director of football victor orta is also set to leave the club. leeds are 17th in the premier league, above the relegation zone only on goal difference. gracia has won only three of his 11 league games since taking over in febraury. barry hearn, the president of matchroom sport, has told 5live they are urging sheffield council to build a bigger crucible theatre so they can keep the world snooker championship there each year. hearn says they need to keep the tournament commercially viable. it comes as luca brecel was crowned champion beating mark selby 18—15 in front of the 950 capacity crowd. hearn called it one of the best championships in the past 40 years. sean dyche says everton's draw

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we are talking about these xl bullies, you've probably seen them, they're massive great creatures, stocky, full of muscle, and some might say very intimidating, but we are hearing a lot of people this morning who are getting in touch with us saying they are wonderful and they are friendly and they are full of love, and theyjust want and they are friendly and they are full of love, and they just want to protect you. that is the key point, though, isn't it? we have got him in margate, dog trainer, owns 13 bulldogs, two xl bullies, and we have been looking on the screen, if you have been watching and probably hearing the panting and the licking, if you were just listing on the radio, herxl if you were just listing on the radio, her xl bully, that was featuring this morning. diane is in liverpool, mahler is in east london and lynn is in cornwall. i wanted to come to you before the news, lynn, have you got an xl bully or bulldog? i have got a bulldog cross. and he

is very, very similar to an xl bully in size and muscle. 0k... now, he is as friendly as can be, with me. he is friendly with the family, and with people. however, when i go out, i walk him on the harness, a chain lead, and with a muzzle, when i go to places where i know there will be other dogs, because quite often he is approached by a small dog who will come off the lead in their own are going miles away, oh, they are fine, they are fine. that might be the case, but if the small dog growled at my dog or something triggered them, my dog could kill a small dog in one bite. now, i am conscious of that, i am 54, but owners, i'm sorry to say this, but

the photo on the telly is really bad, because that westie is off the lead approaching the bulldog. that is my westie- _ lead approaching the bulldog. that is my westie. the _ lead approaching the bulldog. that is my westie. the bulldog - lead approaching the bulldog. that is my westie. the bulldog is i lead approaching the bulldog. that is my westie. the bulldog is on i lead approaching the bulldog. that| is my westie. the bulldog is on the lead with the _ is my westie. the bulldog is on the lead with the owner. _ is my westie. the bulldog is on the lead with the owner. you _ is my westie. the bulldog is on the lead with the owner. you could i is my westie. the bulldog is on the lead with the owner. you could be. lead with the owner. you could be 100% sure that that dog wouldn't do anything, but you don't know, when a dog looks at another dog, something snaps sometimes. and your dog might be the most docile, but if it yes, another dog, say an xl bully... yeah. . . another dog, say an xl bully... yeah. . , , ., , another dog, say an xl bully... yeah. . , , .,, .., yeah. that is where the problem can lie, and i yeah. that is where the problem can lie. and i am — yeah. that is where the problem can lie, and i am not _ yeah. that is where the problem can lie, and i am not criticising _ yeah. that is where the problem can lie, and i am not criticising you i yeah. that is where the problem can lie, and i am not criticising you or. lie, and i am not criticising you or anyone else that has their dogs off the lead, i would never let my dog off the lead, even with a muzzle on, because they are very powerful. i get that, absolutely, but the reason that the dog was off... if the xl bully had been off the lead, i would have quickly put my dog on the lead,

but we were in a place with no other dogs, it was a massive field, and no—one was there, so that was my decision at the time. i no-one was there, so that was my decision at the time.— decision at the time. i am not criticising _ decision at the time. i am not criticising you. _ decision at the time. i am not criticising you. it _ decision at the time. i am not criticising you. it is _ decision at the time. i am not criticising you. it is a - decision at the time. i am not criticising you. it is a very i decision at the time. i am not. criticising you. it is a very good oint, criticising you. it is a very good point, because _ criticising you. it is a very good point, because my _ criticising you. it is a very good point, because my little - criticising you. it is a very good point, because my little dog, l criticising you. it is a very good i point, because my little dog, she was once rolled over by a german shepherd, and they never forget, whenever she sees a german shepherd, she will start barking at the german shepherd because the ceo it is that i won that rolled her over, because they remember. interesting. what would your dog do if a little dog came up and gapped at your dog, would your dog attack that little dog? would your dog attack that little do ? ., would your dog attack that little do i ? ., ., ., would your dog attack that little do ? ., ., ., ., would your dog attack that little do? ., ., ., ., , dog? no, he would go on defensive and probably _ dog? no, he would go on defensive and probably stand _ dog? no, he would go on defensive and probably stand there, - dog? no, he would go on defensive and probably stand there, 0k, - dog? no, he would go on defensive l and probably stand there, 0k, where and probably stand there, ok, where is this coming? but if a little dog snapped at him and bit is this coming? but if a little dog snapped at him and hit him, he could retaliate, i mean, we would have a muzzle on her in public but my small grandchildren, when they come to the house, the dog is nowhere near them, and never has access to them,

because he is really, really friendly but a similar thing could happen. when my daughter, who is now 32, was very small amount i had a labrador, and before i could get out of the chair, she walked up and hit him with a videocassette recorder, a videocassette, sorry, now, that dog was fast asleep on the sofa, and he just snapped as an issue, as a reaction. he was mortified when he opened his eyes, but he caught her just by her eye. now she thankfully was ok, but i couldn't blame that dog, the dog was asleep before he knew, and something just smacked him on the head really hard. and i couldn't do anything about it because it was so instantaneous. so i believe that even if you have got the most docile bulldog, or xl bully or anything as a large dog, should

not be near young children. kim. or anything as a large dog, should not be near young children. kim, i wonder what— not be near young children. kim, i wonder what you _ not be near young children. kim, i wonder what you think _ not be near young children. kim, i wonder what you think of - not be near young children. kim, i wonder what you think of that, - not be near young children. kim, i wonder what you think of that, did you hear that, wonder what you think of that, did you hearthat, kim? wonder what you think of that, did you hear that, kim?— wonder what you think of that, did you hear that, kim? yes, i did, yes. do ou you hear that, kim? yes, i did, yes. do you agree? _ you hear that, kim? yes, i did, yes. do you agree? well, _ you hear that, kim? yes, i did, yes. do you agree? well, everybody - you hear that, kim? yes, i did, yes. do you agree? well, everybody has| do you agree? well, everybody has their own opinions _ do you agree? well, everybody has their own opinions and _ do you agree? well, everybody has their own opinions and i _ do you agree? well, everybody has their own opinions and i appreciate | their own opinions and i appreciate what _ their own opinions and i appreciate what the _ their own opinions and i appreciate what the lady is saying, but if you isolate _ what the lady is saying, but if you isolate any — what the lady is saying, but if you isolate any dog from the situations, you are _ isolate any dog from the situations, you are not — isolate any dog from the situations, you are not teaching it anything, you're _ you are not teaching it anything, you're actually, you know, taking away— you're actually, you know, taking away skills— you're actually, you know, taking away skills from the dog to understand how they should behave and how _ understand how they should behave and how should be within the community or in a home or anywhere else _ community or in a home or anywhere else i_ community or in a home or anywhere else. i wouldn't do that, as a trainer. — else. i wouldn't do that, as a trainer, and i wouldn't advise any of my— trainer, and i wouldn't advise any of my clients to isolate their dogs from _ of my clients to isolate their dogs from anything. because the dogs need to be able _ from anything. because the dogs need to be able to handle situations and have a _ to be able to handle situations and have a balanced level thinking of,

is this— have a balanced level thinking of, is this a _ have a balanced level thinking of, is this a threat, is this, i am going — is this a threat, is this, i am going to _ is this a threat, is this, i am going to go _ is this a threat, is this, i am going to go into a situation where neither— going to go into a situation where neither can — going to go into a situation where neither can then avoid...? you know, we do _ neither can then avoid...? you know, we do the _ neither can then avoid...? you know, we do the thinking for them, and i feel that _ we do the thinking for them, and i feel that also is a little bit of wrong — feel that also is a little bit of wrong. dogs are very sociable animals _ wrong. dogs are very sociable animals. go wrong. dogs are very sociable animals. ., . ., wrong. dogs are very sociable animals. ., ., wrong. dogs are very sociable animals. ., . . animals. go on. was that you coming back in, animals. go on. was that you coming back in. lynn? _ animals. go on. was that you coming back in, lynn? yes. _ animals. go on. was that you coming back in, lynn? yes. i— animals. go on. was that you coming back in, lynn? yes. i do _ animals. go on. was that you coming back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, - animals. go on. was that you coming back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i- back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i mean, back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i mean. i— back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i mean. i have _ back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i mean, i have this _ back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i mean, i have this dog _ back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i mean, i have this dog from - back in, lynn? yes. i do agree, i mean, i have this dog from a - mean, i have this dog from a puppy so i socialised him with everything i could think of, farm animals, children, situations outside the home, noises, everything. but you can never be in a dog's mind, and you can never get there quick enough if, for that instant reaction. and so that is why i muzzle my dog. but

then when my dog is muzzled, people think he's automatically a dangerous dog because he's got the muzzle on. now, that is for their dogs because no protection and his protection, because no—one can come back and say, your dog killed my dog because he is an excel breed or whatever. because he is protected by the muzzle. i because he is protected by the muzzle. ., ., muzzle. i get it. iwant to point out the kennel _ muzzle. i get it. iwant to point out the kennel say _ muzzle. i get it. iwant to point out the kennel say the - muzzle. i get it. iwant to point out the kennel say the advice l muzzle. i get it. iwant to point| out the kennel say the advice is never to leave children alone with dogs, clearly young children should not be left alone with dogs, and we are getting lots of texts along the same lines, people really engaged with this, again, thank you so much for that, and mala in east london, and craig in sunderland, dianne in liverpool, dianne, you're worried about these dogs, tell me more? yes. about these dogs, tell me more? yes, m oint about these dogs, tell me more? yes, my point of— about these dogs, tell me more? yes, my point of view _ about these dogs, tell me more? yes, my point of view is, _ about these dogs, tell me more? yes, my point of view is, i _ about these dogs, tell me more? yes,

my point of view is, i would never own a _ my point of view is, i would never own a dog — my point of view is, i would never own a dog that i couldn't kill myself — own a dog that i couldn't kill myself with my own bare hands. because — myself with my own bare hands. because i— myself with my own bare hands. because ijust don't get it, i don't know— because ijust don't get it, i don't know why— because ijust don't get it, i don't know why people want to own these kind of— know why people want to own these kind of dogs, because at the end of the day. _ kind of dogs, because at the end of the day. it— kind of dogs, because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter about training, — the day, it doesn't matter about training, it— the day, it doesn't matter about training, it doesn't matter about socialisation, you can't trust any do. socialisation, you can't trust any dog and — socialisation, you can't trust any dog and the difference is, i have iot dog and the difference is, i have got a _ dog and the difference is, i have got a little — dog and the difference is, i have got a little cockapoo here, and you know _ got a little cockapoo here, and you know if— got a little cockapoo here, and you know if he — got a little cockapoo here, and you know if he has a bad day and bites me or— know if he has a bad day and bites me or a _ know if he has a bad day and bites me or a child, the result is, yes, a nasty— me or a child, the result is, yes, a nasty dog — me or a child, the result is, yes, a nasty dog bite, but if one of those bullies— nasty dog bite, but if one of those bullies has— nasty dog bite, but if one of those bullies has a bad day and decides to turni _ bullies has a bad day and decides to turn, then— bullies has a bad day and decides to turn, then you know, it could be game _ turn, then you know, it could be game over~ _ turn, then you know, it could be game over. and ijust don't understand why people have them. not against _ understand why people have them. not against them, i am not saying that they are _ against them, i am not saying that they are any worse than any other dog. _ they are any worse than any other dog. but— they are any worse than any other dog. but as — they are any worse than any other dog, but as i say, you can't trust any dog. — dog, but as i say, you can't trust any dog. and _ dog, but as i say, you can't trust any dog, and it isjust the consequences, because they are killers — consequences, because they are killers at— consequences, because they are killers. at the end of the day, they are killers —

killers. at the end of the day, they are killers. ., killers. at the end of the day, they are killers— are killers. craig, what do you say to that? couldn't— are killers. craig, what do you say to that? couldn't be _ are killers. craig, what do you say to that? couldn't be further- are killers. craig, what do you say to that? couldn't be further from | to that? couldn't be further from the truth. to that? couldn't be further from the truth- i _ to that? couldn't be further from the truth. i have _ to that? couldn't be further from the truth. i have had _ to that? couldn't be further from the truth. i have had this - to that? couldn't be further from the truth. i have had this breed l the truth. i have had this breed for, like, 20 years, most of them have been rescued dogs, one of them are three owners by the time i got, but no, could not be further from the truth. i have got a four—year—old child that passed through the doorjust now, has control of the dog, literally at four years old, he has the dog sitting, lying, rolling over, putting treach down for it, the dog will go for the treat only when the four—year—old said he could take it. it is definitely down to the owner, not the dog. i it is definitely down to the owner, not the dog-— it is definitely down to the owner, not the do. . , . ., not the dog. i mean, diane, you are ve clear not the dog. i mean, diane, you are very clear about _ not the dog. i mean, diane, you are very clear about this, _ not the dog. i mean, diane, you are very clear about this, you _ not the dog. i mean, diane, you are very clear about this, you say - not the dog. i mean, diane, you are very clear about this, you say your l very clear about this, you say your principle is, as you said, that you were you would not have a dog that you could not kill with your own bare hands. but you say that they are killers? diane, are you still

there? , �* ., there? sorry, i couldn't hear you. don't worry. _ there? sorry, i couldn't hear you. don't worry. it — there? sorry, i couldn't hear you. don't worry, it is _ there? sorry, i couldn't hear you. don't worry, it is my _ there? sorry, i couldn't hear you. don't worry, it is my fault, - don't worry, it is my fault, probably, you say that they are killers where that is a strong thing to say? killers where that is a strong thing to sa ? , ., ., killers where that is a strong thing tosa? ., ~ , killers where that is a strong thing tosa ? ,~ ., ~ , ., to say? they are not killers, what i'm saying — to say? they are not killers, what i'm saying is _ to say? they are not killers, what i'm saying is they _ to say? they are not killers, what i'm saying is they have _ to say? they are not killers, what i'm saying is they have got - to say? they are not killers, what i'm saying is they have got the i i'm saying is they have got the potential— i'm saying is they have got the potential to kill. that is the difference. i potential to kill. that is the difference.— potential to kill. that is the difference. . ., , ., difference. i agree that they are bi , difference. i agree that they are big. strong _ difference. i agree that they are big. strong dogs. _ difference. i agree that they are big, strong dogs, and _ difference. i agree that they are big, strong dogs, and a - difference. i agree that they are big, strong dogs, and a bite - difference. i agree that they are | big, strong dogs, and a bite from difference. i agree that they are i big, strong dogs, and a bite from a bully is going to hurt a lot more than a bite from a jack russell, but statistically there are more bites from jack russell is in the uk than there are from kinds. i from jack russell is in the uk than there are from kinds.— there are from kinds. i am not disputing _ there are from kinds. i am not disputing that. _ there are from kinds. i am not disputing that. my _ there are from kinds. i am not disputing that. my argument l there are from kinds. i am not| disputing that. my argument is there are from kinds. i am not- disputing that. my argument is that why own _ disputing that. my argument is that why own something that has the potential— why own something that has the potential to kill? i mean, a few weeks — potential to kill? i mean, a few weeks back, i was walking my dog down _ weeks back, i was walking my dog down the — weeks back, i was walking my dog down the road and there was a guy coming _ down the road and there was a guy coming towards me, fearing upcoming returned _ coming towards me, fearing upcoming returned around and he said to me, you have _ returned around and he said to me, you have to— returned around and he said to me, you have to cross over. he said, my do. you have to cross over. he said, my dog has _ you have to cross over. he said, my dog has got— you have to cross over. he said, my dog has got the scent of your dog, and i_ dog has got the scent of your dog, and i thought to myself, i mean, i was frightened sol and i thought to myself, i mean, i was frightened so i did, i crossed

overi _ was frightened so i did, i crossed over. and — was frightened so i did, i crossed over. and i— was frightened so i did, i crossed over, and i thought to myself, why would _ over, and i thought to myself, why would you — over, and i thought to myself, why would you want a dog that you have to, when _ would you want a dog that you have to, when you are out walking him, you have _ to, when you are out walking him, you have got to be constantly warning — you have got to be constantly warning people that you can't walk past them — warning people that you can't walk past them with your dog because he is frightened that it might attack? you know? or you know, that if it does _ you know? or you know, that if it does attack— you know? or you know, that if it does attack somebody, that it has iot does attack somebody, that it has got the _ does attack somebody, that it has got the potential to kill someone? craig, _ got the potential to kill someone? craig, answer that question, why do want this dog or a dog like this? quite honestly, i have never sleep purposely went out to purchase this breed of dog, i have always enjoyed them, they've always been very loving, very reliable, very trustworthy. i can't for the breed at all. i totally understand what has just been said about the owner, saying about crossing the road, that should not happen. that is not the dog, that is the owner, and if the owner can't get that dog under control then he should not be out walking it in public like that. i would quite happily take my dog out

to meet any dog whatsoever, i know for a fact he is not aggressive, he has had dogs come up to him, i would never let my dog off the lead, always on the leader, but dogs welcome up to him off the lead and hejust stands there. welcome up to him off the lead and he just stands there. the little dogs often actually take a snap at him for no reason whatsoever, whether it is fear or whatever, they often take a snap and he doesn't respond, he doesn't snap back or anything but that is because he has been socialised. bud anything but that is because he has been socialised.— been socialised. and a lot of dogs haven't been _ been socialised. and a lot of dogs haven't been socialised _ been socialised. and a lot of dogs haven't been socialised because l been socialised. and a lot of dogs| haven't been socialised because of covid. tell me more, craig, about, you know, is there room for him, does he go on the sofa? h0. you know, is there room for him, does he go on the sofa?- you know, is there room for him, does he go on the sofa? no, i won't elect him on — does he go on the sofa? no, i won't elect him on the _ does he go on the sofa? no, i won't elect him on the sofa. _ does he go on the sofa? no, i won't elect him on the sofa. not - does he go on the sofa? no, i won't elect him on the sofa. not becausel does he go on the sofa? no, i won't| elect him on the sofa. not because i don't have a problem with it, it is the fact that it is a nice sofa, i don't want it to get ruined, he is a big dog. don't want it to get ruined, he is a bii doi. , don't want it to get ruined, he is a biidio. , ., ., don't want it to get ruined, he is aj big dog-_ he big dog. does he love a tickle? he is on the bed _ big dog. does he love a tickle? he is on the bed at _ big dog. does he love a tickle? he is on the bed at the _ big dog. does he love a tickle? he is on the bed at the moment, - is on the bed at the moment, where he shouldn't be. yes, he does. does he shouldn't be. yes, he does. does he roll over —

he shouldn't be. yes, he does. does he roll over for _ he shouldn't be. yes, he does. does he roll over for a _ he shouldn't be. yes, he does. does he roll over for a tickle? _ he shouldn't be. yes, he does. does he roll over for a tickle? yes. - he shouldn't be. yes, he does. does he roll over for a tickle? yes. he - he roll over for a tickle? yes. he certainly wants _ he roll over for a tickle? yes. he certainly wants his _ he roll over for a tickle? yes. he certainly wants his belly - he roll over for a tickle? yes. he certainly wants his belly tickled i j certainly wants his belly tickled i think we have got a picture of your dog on screen if people are actually watching this morning that you have very kindly sent us. find watching this morning that you have very kindly sent us.— very kindly sent us. and he has got a very ticklable _ very kindly sent us. and he has got a very ticklable tummy, _ very kindly sent us. and he has got a very ticklable tummy, i _ very kindly sent us. and he has got a very ticklable tummy, i have - very kindly sent us. and he has got a very ticklable tummy, i have to i a very ticklable tummy, i have to say. and goods with the kids, you say? say. and goods with the kids, you sa ? �* , , ., say? and this is the third one i have had- _ say? and this is the third one i have had. this _ say? and this is the third one i have had. this one _ say? and this is the third one i have had. this one is - say? and this is the third one i have had. this one is one - say? and this is the third one i have had. this one is one of. say? and this is the third one i l have had. this one is one of the bigger breeds, he is about 50 kilograms at the moment, i think he is going to end up more like 60,70 kilograms, but out of the three dogs i've had, he is the best temperament. all three of them have been brilliant and prominent. must iet throth been brilliant and prominent. must get through some _ been brilliant and prominent. must get through some food, does he? been brilliant and prominent. must - get through some food, does he? yes, he iut it get through some food, does he? yes, he put it away- — get through some food, does he? yes, he put it away. how _ get through some food, does he? yes, he put it away. how many _ get through some food, does he? yes, he put it away. how many meals - get through some food, does he? yes, he put it away. how many meals a - he put it away. how many meals a da ? he he put it away. how many meals a day? he is— he put it away. how many meals a day? he isjust— he put it away. how many meals a day? he isjust on _ he put it away. how many meals a day? he isjust on two _ he put it away. how many meals a day? he isjust on two but - he put it away. how many meals a day? he isjust on two but he - he put it away. how many meals a day? he isjust on two but he getsj he put it away. how many meals a i day? he isjust on two but he gets a day? he is 'ust on two but he gets a mod mix day? he isjust on two but he gets a good mix of— day? he isjust on two but he gets a good mix of the _ day? he isjust on two but he gets a good mix of the raw _ day? he isjust on two but he gets a good mix of the raw meat _ day? he isjust on two but he gets a good mix of the raw meat with - good mix of the raw meat with vegetables. good mix of the raw meat with vegetables-— good mix of the raw meat with veietables. , ,, ., vegetables. 0k, sounds like a good diet as well. _ vegetables. 0k, sounds like a good diet as well, which _ vegetables. 0k, sounds like a good diet as well, which is _ vegetables. 0k, sounds like a good diet as well, which is very - diet as well, which is very important for a dog. for demeanour.

alison, what happened to you, good morning. in newcastle? goad alison, what happened to you, good morning. in newcastle? good morning, nic . what morning. in newcastle? good morning, nicky. what happened _ morning. in newcastle? good morning, nicky. what happened to _ morning. in newcastle? good morning, nicky. what happened to model's - morning. in newcastle? good morning, nicky. what happened to model's the i nicky. what happened to model's the area where _ nicky. what happened to model's the area where i live, where i actually moved _ area where i live, where i actually moved from the area, but i got attacked — moved from the area, but i got attacked by an american pitbull, and it nearly— attacked by an american pitbull, and it nearly ripped my arm out, the muscle — it nearly ripped my arm out, the muscle out— it nearly ripped my arm out, the muscle out of my arm, nearly ripped my stomach — muscle out of my arm, nearly ripped my stomach out. but i had a padded jacket _ my stomach out. but i had a padded jacket on _ my stomach out. but i had a padded jacket on which stop. it it on my legs, _ jacket on which stop. it it on my legs, and — jacket on which stop. it it on my legs, and what it was after, it was after— legs, and what it was after, it was after my— legs, and what it was after, it was after my dog come because i've got a little scotty, a little scottie dog. and it _ little scotty, a little scottie dog. and it came after it, it came running _ and it came after it, it came running down the path because where i running down the path because where i lived _ running down the path because where i lived there was houses and was no roadsi _ i lived there was houses and was no roads. it _ i lived there was houses and was no roads. it was — i lived there was houses and was no roads, it wasjust parts, and it

came — roads, it wasjust parts, and it came down— roads, it wasjust parts, and it came down the path after my dog and i came down the path after my dog and i grabbed _ came down the path after my dog and i grabbed my dog and i lifted it up in the _ i grabbed my dog and i lifted it up inthe air, — i grabbed my dog and i lifted it up in the air, and then the dog literally— in the air, and then the dog literally started jumping at me and it was— literally started jumping at me and it was so— literally started jumping at me and it was so heavy, the dog, it was so heavy _ it was so heavy, the dog, it was so heavy and — it was so heavy, the dog, it was so heavy. and i'm in, i it was so heavy, the dog, it was so heavy. and i'm in, lam 5ft eight and i_ heavy. and i'm in, lam 5ft eight and i am— heavy. and i'm in, lam 5ft eight and i am not— heavy. and i'm in, lam 5ft eight and i am not a small glass all, right, — and i am not a small glass all, right, and _ and i am not a small glass all, right, and it keptjumping at us and each time— right, and it keptjumping at us and each time it— right, and it keptjumping at us and each time it i could feel the energy within— each time it i could feel the energy within myself draining, and i'm screaming _ within myself draining, and i'm screaming for help and nobody came to help. _ screaming for help and nobody came to help. all— screaming for help and nobody came to help, all the neighbours never even _ to help, all the neighbours never even responded, but the dog kept coming _ even responded, but the dog kept coming at — even responded, but the dog kept coming at me and ijust couldn't, i started _ coming at me and ijust couldn't, i started to — coming at me and ijust couldn't, i started to feel like i was going to fall to _ started to feel like i was going to fall to the — started to feel like i was going to fall to the floor and i knew if i did the — fall to the floor and i knew if i did the dog would have been dead. where _ did the dog would have been dead. where was the owner? the did the dog would have been dead. where was the owner?— did the dog would have been dead. where was the owner? the owner of the doi where was the owner? the owner of the dog was — where was the owner? the owner of the dog was actually _ where was the owner? the owner of the dog was actually drunk. - where was the owner? the owner of the dog was actually drunk. and - where was the owner? the owner of the dog was actually drunk. and he l the dog was actually drunk. and he was in _ the dog was actually drunk. and he was in charge of this dog where it was in charge of this dog where it was a _ was in charge of this dog where it was a field — was in charge of this dog where it was a field where children used to take their— was a field where children used to take their own dogs out onto the field, _ take their own dogs out onto the field, and — take their own dogs out onto the field, and this dog is still walking around _ field, and this dog is still walking around that field, and the owner still owns — around that field, and the owner still owns that dog. now, i don't

have _ still owns that dog. now, i don't have any— still owns that dog. now, i don't have any reproach against any big dogs. _ have any reproach against any big dogs. i_ have any reproach against any big dogs, i love dogs,. and even since, i dogs, i love dogs,. and even since, i tried _ dogs, i love dogs,. and even since, i tried to _ dogs, i love dogs,. and even since, i tried to encourage myself when i see a _ i tried to encourage myself when i see a bigger dog to go to it and approach — see a bigger dog to go to it and approach it and touch it to try and overcome — approach it and touch it to try and overcome the fear, but that day, honestly. — overcome the fear, but that day, honestly. i— overcome the fear, but that day, honestly, i have never felt a dog so heavy _ honestly, i have never felt a dog so heavy and — honestly, i have never felt a dog so heavy and i— honestly, i have never felt a dog so heavy. and i was nearly on my knees by the _ heavy. and i was nearly on my knees by the time _ heavy. and i was nearly on my knees by the time somebody came to help. you went— by the time somebody came to help. you went to — by the time somebody came to help. you went to the police, did you? | you went to the police, did you? i went to the police, and all i got off the — went to the police, and all i got off the police was a crime number, there _ off the police was a crime number, there was— off the police was a crime number, there was a — off the police was a crime number, there was a female police officer and a _ there was a female police officer and a male police officer, the female — and a male police officer, the female police officer said, well, you are — female police officer said, well, you are not a small mass, are you? she said _ you are not a small mass, are you? she said but— you are not a small mass, are you? she said. but looking at the injuries, _ she said. but looking at the injuries, and then the male police officer. _ injuries, and then the male police officer. i— injuries, and then the male police officer, i said dogs should be on leads— officer, i said dogs should be on leads in— officer, i said dogs should be on leads in public places, i always thought— leads in public places, i always thought that was the law, and i have always— thought that was the law, and i have always had _ thought that was the law, and i have always had my dog on a lead in a public— always had my dog on a lead in a public place, but this police officer— public place, but this police officer said, i walked through there

all the _ officer said, i walked through there all the time and i have my dog off the lead _ all the time and i have my dog off the lead and my dog is a big dog and i the lead and my dog is a big dog and i don't _ the lead and my dog is a big dog and i don't have — the lead and my dog is a big dog and i don't have any problems. but listening — i don't have any problems. but listening to what that lady said before — listening to what that lady said before when she said she has a dog on a lead. — before when she said she has a dog on a lead, her dog does go on a lead and a _ on a lead, her dog does go on a lead and a small— on a lead, her dog does go on a lead and a small dog comes and starts having _ and a small dog comes and starts having a — and a small dog comes and starts having a go— and a small dog comes and starts having a go at it, what is that big doi having a go at it, what is that big dog supposed to do, stand there and not retaliate? it doesn't make sense — not retaliate? it doesn't make sense. and i love dogs, i love every kind of— sense. and i love dogs, i love every kind of dog. — sense. and i love dogs, i love every kind of dog, but honestly, i don't want _ kind of dog, but honestly, idon't want to— kind of dog, but honestly, i don't want to experience that again, i really— want to experience that again, i really don't. did want to experience that again, i really don't-— want to experience that again, i reall don't. , ., ., ., ., really don't. did you have to go to casual ? really don't. did you have to go to casualty? l _ really don't. did you have to go to casualty? i went _ really don't. did you have to go to casualty? i went to _ really don't. did you have to go to casualty? i went to casualty, - really don't. did you have to go to casualty? i went to casualty, i - really don't. did you have to go to | casualty? i went to casualty, i was told in casualty, _ casualty? i went to casualty, i was told in casualty, they _ casualty? i went to casualty, i was told in casualty, they said - casualty? i went to casualty, i was told in casualty, they said you - casualty? i went to casualty, i was told in casualty, they said you can| told in casualty, they said you can io told in casualty, they said you can go home, — told in casualty, they said you can go home, i— told in casualty, they said you can go home, i came home, a bit sore the day after. _ go home, i came home, a bit sore the day after, because the dog's teeth had gone — day after, because the dog's teeth had gone through the skin on my arm, and i had gone through the skin on my arm, and i have _ had gone through the skin on my arm, and i have actually got a photograph of the _ and i have actually got a photograph of the whole jaw of the dog on my arm _ of the whole jaw of the dog on my arm. and — of the whole jaw of the dog on my arm. and i— of the whole jaw of the dog on my arm, and i went to my doctor the next _ arm, and i went to my doctor the next day. — arm, and i went to my doctor the next day, the nurses and the doctors went berserk, she said you should have _ went berserk, she said you should have had — went berserk, she said you should have had tetanus, you should have

had antibiotics, and the whole thing wasjust— had antibiotics, and the whole thing wasjust a _ had antibiotics, and the whole thing wasjust a mess. but had antibiotics, and the whole thing was just a mess. but at the end had antibiotics, and the whole thing wasjust a mess. but at the end of the day. _ wasjust a mess. but at the end of the day. a — wasjust a mess. but at the end of the day, a dog is a dog and i don't blame _ the day, a dog is a dog and i don't blame the — the day, a dog is a dog and i don't blame the dogs were doing what they do, i blame the owner. this blame the dogs were doing what they do, i blame the owner.— do, i blame the owner. this is what is... if do, i blame the owner. this is what is- -- if the — do, i blame the owner. this is what is... if the owner _ do, i blame the owner. this is what is... if the owner is _ do, i blame the owner. this is what is... if the owner is not _ do, i blame the owner. this is what is... if the owner is not in - is... if the owner is not in control ofthat is... if the owner is not in control of that animal, _ is... if the owner is not in control of that animal, then _ is... if the owner is not in control of that animal, then how - is... if the owner is not in control of that animal, then how can - is... if the owner is not in control of that animal, then how can you | of that animal, then how can you blame _ of that animal, then how can you blame the — of that animal, then how can you blame the dog for not being in control? — blame the dog for not being in control? , ., ., control? there is a level of control. — control? there is a level of control, when _ control? there is a level of control, when i _ control? there is a level of control, when i take - control? there is a level of control, when i take my. control? there is a level of. control, when i take my little control? there is a level of- control, when i take my little dog out, there is a level of control i have to have over her, to stop her from hurting anybody else.- from hurting anybody else. some ieoile from hurting anybody else. some people just _ from hurting anybody else. some people just have _ from hurting anybody else. some people just have no _ from hurting anybody else. some people just have no sense - from hurting anybody else. some people just have no sense of - people just have no sense of responsibility or knowledge, they haven't got the first idea how to train a dog, how to look after a dog, how to make sure that dog behaves. lynn is in nuneaton, alison, that is a terrible experience, lynn, what happened to you, is it an xl bully experience, what happened?— you, is it an xl bully experience, what happened? good morning. it is an xl bully experience _ what happened? good morning. it is an xl bully experience that - what happened? good morning. it is an xl bully experience that i - what happened? good morning. it is an xl bully experience that i want i an xl bully experience that i want nobody ever to relive. my dog, in

its own garden, having a wee when three, three, xl bullies funded through the fence, threw him up in the air, down on the ground and ripped him, limbfrom limb. the the air, down on the ground and ripped him, limb from limb. the guy has six of these dogs, he can't control them, the police came, armed officer came, the guy took his dogs in his van and ran away, while my dog was in the garden bleeding to death. it is going to court, so i can't name names. i have never in my life experienced anything like it, the power of these dogs. it is unbelievable. it was like watching something on a safari, a kill. and it is something that i will never,

ever get over, all my life. goodness, lynn, that isjust... where did they come from, the next—door garden, or over the where. . . ? next-door garden, or over the where- - - ?_ next-door garden, or over the where. . . ? , ., where...? the guy, erm... he moved in on the saturday, _ where...? the guy, erm... he moved in on the saturday, and _ where...? the guy, erm... he moved in on the saturday, and by _ where...? the guy, erm... he moved in on the saturday, and by the - in on the saturday, and by the wednesday, my dog was dead. i actually ran out, i have another little dog who is 15, i ran out into the garden, scooped up in my arms, screaming, i had to run barefoot round to his house to get him to get his dogs out of my garden and off my dog but it was too late.— dog but it was too late. lynn, i am so, so dog but it was too late. lynn, i am so. so sorry. _ dog but it was too late. lynn, i am so, so sorry, that _ dog but it was too late. lynn, i am so, so sorry, that is _ dog but it was too late. lynn, i am so, so sorry, that is awful. - dog but it was too late. lynn, i am so, so sorry, that is awful. thank i so, so sorry, that is awful. thank you very much for plucking up courage to come on and tell us your experience. isuppose, what courage to come on and tell us your experience. i suppose, what message is coming through very much this morning is that, you know, all dogs can be terrible, these dogs are very

strong, so when they are terrible, as we heard, there can be a terrible experience. but it is about the owners. live from london, this is bbc news. live from london. this is bbc news. a former google engineer has quit his job and issues a warning about the growing dangers of artificial intelligence. lucy letby, the nurse accused of murdering seven babies appears at manchester crown court to give evidence in her defence. a united nations official says that 100,000 refugees have now crossed from sudan to neighbouring countries to escape the conflict that erupted last month. a prominent palestinian prisoner has died in an israeli jail after nearly three months on hunger strike.