from london, this is bbc news. while a man known as the godfather of artificial intelligence has quit his job at google. it is as you had 2000 people, and when ever somebody knew something, everyone automatically near it. that's how these apps can know so much more than any one person. a prominent palestinian prisoner has died in an israeli jail after nearly three months on hunger strike. here in the uk, the nurse accused of murdering seven babies and trying to kill ten others, lucy letby, gives evidence for the first time in her trial. and some top american chat shows and tv programmes could fall off air after hollywood film and tv screen writers fail to agree a new deal over wages.

hello. the man widely seen as the godfather of artificial intelligence has quit his job at google, warning of the dangers of ai. doctor geoffrey henton's pioneering research on aland neural networks has paved the way for current work on al, but he says he now regrets his work and is worried the technology will flood the internet with misinformation. google has responded in a statement, saying... doctor henton has told the bbc how these systems can know so much. the kind of these systems can know so much. tie: kind of intelligence we these systems can know so much. tue: kind of intelligence we are developing is very different from the intelligence we have. we are biological systems, and these are digital systems, and the big difference is that with digital systems, you have many copies of the same set of weights, the same model of the world. and all these copies

can learn separately but share their knowledge instantly, so it's as if you had 10,000 people, and whenever one person learn something, everyone knew it. and that is how these chat apps can know so much more than any one person. doctor hinton also told the bbc the rate of progress is worrying. right now, what we are seeing is things like gpt�*i eclipses a person in the amount of general knowledge it has, and eclipses them by a long way. in terms of reasoning, it is not as good, but it does do simple reasoning, and given the rate of progress, we expect things to get better quite fast, so we need to worry about that. right now, they are not, as far as i can tell, but they soon might be. let's remind ourselves what ai is and how it works. it starts with an algorithm, a set of instructions given to a

computer. they make millions of choices given rules set by people. this can be used in predicting the weather was driverless cars. ai hansbrough power to the computer. that's how it predicts how things like weather systems might behave. but it's only ever as good as the data learn from. facial recognition is an example of this, but it doesn't i was get it right, people can be wrongly identified. —— the data it learned from. that's because machines mimic existing vices in society. it's hoped the efficiency of ai can be improved. professor michael wooldridge is from the department of computer science at oxford university and told me his thoughts earlier. chatgpt thoughts earlier. chatg pt and thoughts earlier. chatgpt and tools like that, when you sit down and play with them, they are very dazzling at first. it's very impressive that you can sit down and talk to ai, which seems to be very knowledgeable, it seems to be very knowledgeable, it seems to be very confident. it comes back with what seems to be very clear and convincing answers. but anyone who has played with it for any amount of time at all discovers that it gets things wrong, an awful lot. it gets

things wrong, an awful lot. it gets things wrong, an awful lot. it gets things wrong in really, really quite surprisingly dumb ways. so this technology is not going to sort of crawl out of the computer and take over. that isn't the nature of the technology. and i do worry that we obsess around things like that, which is very natural for people to do, it distracts us from the much more near—term concerns that we should be worried about now. close to half a million sudanese have had to flee their homes since fighting erupted around two weeks ago. among them, around 100,000 have fled to neighbouring countries, according to neighbouring countries, according to figures from the un. in the capital khartoum, fighting is ongoing despite promises of a ceasefire, as foreign nationals attempt to flee. a ship arrived in jeddah from saudi arabia —— in saudi arabia on monday, with evacuees including 100 us citizens. the final two evacuation flights are british nationals also left on monday. those unable to leave my plane are taking

boats. the british government estimates around 4000 britons were struck in sudan and more than half of them have now been evacuated. how diplomatic correspondent paul adams is... we will bring you some breaking news now. health unions representing a majority of nhs workers have recommended the revised pay offer made by the government should be implemented, according to a joint statement from members of the nhs staff council. this is the long anticipated meeting we were expecting, and let's get live reaction now from katharine de costa. we have a statement from the union, and it says that this will be implemented. so, katharine da costa, what happens now? let’s implemented. so, katharine da costa, what happens now?— what happens now? let's remind eve one what happens now? let's remind everyone that — what happens now? let's remind everyone that 14 _ what happens now? let's remind everyone that 14 health -

what happens now? let's remind everyone that 14 health unions . what happens now? let's remind i everyone that 14 health unions were meeting government and health officials to discuss what is on the table. the government have put forward a 5% pay rise for this year and a one—off payment of at least £1600 for last year. the majority have backed that deal. the government has said that that means it will implement the pay, and it should mean that all nhs staff in england, apart from doctors and dentists, who are on a different contract, will get that page, even if they have rejected it. that is more than a million employees. and they could get it in their pay packets as early as next month. now, we are waiting to hear from the health secretary steve barclay. he is due to give his reaction to the news. it had been widely anticipated that the majority would back this deal. we had some reaction from some of the unions in the last few moments. unison, one of the last health —— one of the largest health

unions, has the result. it criticised the government for not having proper pay talks last autumn and said it could have avoided lots of the strikes over the last six months of those talks had taken place much earlier, and now says that pain must be in pay packets as soon as soon as possible. another union, gmb, again representing paramedics and ambulance workers, welcomed the result and said it was an important first step to addressing ongoing issues facing its members. it listed a number of issues that still needed to tackle to improve things in the workplace, things like a review of payments for unsociable hours, and also they want to see tackle be violence against staff which a number of its members have experienced. and it is calling for the government to restore what it called a decade of lost earnings. it also wants to improve the health service for the public, including more funding for mental health and social care. but given the result, it may not end all nhs strikes.

unite is holding a series of local strikes again today. the rcn's mandate came to an end yesterday, but it has already said if it doesn't get an improved offer for nurses, it does intend to rebalance members in the next few weeks, and the society of radiographers plans to do the same. and now that we have this result, the deal could change the overall tone. it could put pressure on unions who are asking for bigger pay deals. ministers this afternoon our meeting, or expecting to meet the british medical association in the separate dispute with junior doctors. they are association in the separate dispute withjunior doctors. they are hoping to find a way forward. the bma has been calling for a 35% pay rise. it says that is to make up for 15 years of below inflation increases. that is something the government has described as unaffordable. meanwhile, if we look at other parts

of the uk, pay negotiations in wales are ongoing. most health workers in scotland have agreed to a 6.5% pay deal, but the results of a bma ballot is expected this friday. if we step back for a second, two things we should make clear, the first is that this pay deal will go through as early as next month, and affect most of the health workers, or all of the health workers, other than, as you said, doctors and dentists in the nhs in england. correct? , ., �* , correct? yes, that's right. the government — correct? yes, that's right. the government had _ correct? yes, that's right. the government had always - correct? yes, that's right. the government had always said . correct? yes, that's right. the i government had always said that correct? yes, that's right. the - government had always said that if a majority of the health unions back the deal, it would implement the pay rise, a 5% pay rise next year and a one—off payment for last year. and that that would happen as soon as possible. that is something unison is calling for, and the earliest chance that may happen would be next month. 50 chance that may happen would be next month. ., chance that may happen would be next month, ., , , chance that may happen would be next month. ., , , month. so that is the first point, that -a month. so that is the first point, that pay deal _ month. so that is the first point, that pay deal will— month. so that is the first point, that pay deal will go _ month. so that is the first point, that pay deal will go through, i month. so that is the first point, l that pay deal will go through, and the second point is that this doesn't necessarily mean that the strikes themselves.

7 ? no, 7 no, that's right. human! no, that's right. -- that the strikes themselves - no, that's right. -- that the strikes themselves will - no, that's right. -- that the l strikes themselves will stop? no, that's right. unite has been carrying out strikes today, and has a man i would mandate to do that. and the rcn, which represents nurses, their mandate came to an end yesterday, they have already said if they don't get a new negotiated deal for nurses on the table, they will then re—ballot their members, asking for a fresh six month mandate, which could take us up to christmas. the difference, though, with that, it would be a national ballot, they would be a national ballot, they would need to get a higher threshold to reach that, so it may be more difficult to achieve and get over the line, and as i said, once this lift reaches pockets, some staff may decide that they don't want to persevere, to pursue further strike action. they may have a change of heart, etc remains uncertain what

might happen, so, unison, which represents a number of different jobs in the health service, already have permission from their own members to continue to strike if they want to, but as you say, the rcn, because of that defeat in court last week, has to look at may be re—balloting their members, you are saying the conditions have now changed in a way that they have to ballot, and also because of that, there will be more money in workers�*, nurses�* pockets and it might be a different result. that is arguable either way. all right, katharine da costa. thank you so much for that. we will hear from you a bit later. i just want to bring the viewer is a statement from the health union unison, which was one of the ones that voted for the pay deal, they have said that nhs workers must now get their money as soon as possible. it said following the majority union vote in favour of accepting the government�*s pay offer at the nhs staff council today, ministers and employers must ensure health workers get their money as soon as possible. they said that nhs workers will now want the pay rise they voted to

accept. the hope is that the one—off payment from last year in salary increase in the future, going forward, will be injune�*s pay packets. so they are expecting it in june�*s pay packets. the statement says health star should not have had to take this action in the first place. the union made clear to ministers last summer that the money was not enough to stop people leaving the nhs nor to stop strikes, but they say the government would not listen. 0f but they say the government would not listen. of course, this has been a big battle between the government and the unions and the health secretary steve barclay. they went on to say that proper talks last autumn could have stopped workers missing out on money they could ill afford to lose. this at the nhs and patients would also have been spared months of disruption. the pay deal, they say, must be the start of something new in the nhs that cannot be a repeat of the past few months. they said everyone who cares about the nhs deserves better, which means improving the process that sets health workers�* wagers. they added

that the nhs remains desperately short of staff champion. they said services can only cope with demand if there is a properly resourced and well supported workforce. they ended by saying that the government must now work with the unions to achieve just that. that was from the unions, but of course, they were referring to the health secretary steve barclay. in the last few minutes, we got this statement from the health and social secretary steve barclay. let�*s have a listen. 0k, a listen. ok, i will read you what he says, but we will soon be able to bring it to you from his own mouth. he said, i am pleased the nhs staff council has voted to accept our pay offer, demonstrating that a majority of any staff agree that this is a fair and reasonable deal. he says it is now my intention to implement this for all staff on the agenda for change contact. while some unions may choose to remain in dispute, we hope that their members, many of whom voted to accept this offer, will

recognise this as a fair outcome that carries the support of their colleagues and decide it is time to bring industrial action to an end. he said we will continue to engage constructively with unions and workforce changes to ensure the nhs is the best place to work for staff, patients and taxpayers. a lot to discuss their with our political correspondent ian watson, who is at westminster. ian, i know you have followed the story for many months now, and we also know some of the unions were never going to be persuaded by some of what steve barclay had to say there. but what is the initial political reaction to this? well, politically, ithink this? well, politically, i think obviously steve barclay will be relieved that a majority of those on the staff council are recommending acceptance of the deal, because health unions of the deal, because health unions of which there are 14, all are different sizes, but one very big union, 500,000 members, the rcn, has rejected this, and another very big union in the health service, around 400,000 of their members working in

the health service, was unison, and they voted fairly strongly to accept that offer. so there will be some relief, i think, from the health secretary, and also some relief, quite rightly, from the labour party leadership as well, because they have obviously said they don�*t want these strikes to go ahead. that said, the so—called summer of discontent is by no means yes, because as we knowjust in england are on strike currently at the moment. the rmt have accused the governance of reneging on a deal on the railways, and of course, to help unions are still planning strike action. indeed, some members of the unite union in the health service are on strike, and the rcn will re—ballot for strike action. so i think the government has calculation here is, if they give this pay deal and all nhs staff, they hoping that they will take the incentive away from some of the nurses and members of the rcn when they come to re—ballot for strike action. they also pointed out, of course, that the rejection of the pay offer by

the rejection of the pay offer by the rcn was a relatively narrow margin, 54—46%, so they are hoping that perhaps some of the people who did not vote on the ballot, or perhaps some of those who did not change their mind, and when it comes to thinking through whether to go on strike comeup or at least to try to get a bit more, their views may well be shaped by the fact their pay packets have increased. there will also be a dispute, i think a little in the unions and government over how soon they will get this. unison called particularly for this as soon as possible, and would like to see it in next month�*s pay packet. the health service say that in fact get their pay increase in the summer, with no more detail than that. one thing i think we should also point out is this statement from the department of health. they point out that their budgeting for that matter they have already budgeted for an increase this financial year of 3.5%, but will now be winning a 5% increase. they are seeing some of that money will come from what they

call re—prioritisation. we will have to see if that is in fact code for cuts elsewhere in the nhs, so further down the line, that could still prove contentious. but i think certainly from the government�*s point of view, at the moment they will be feeling overwhelming relief, but strike action notjust in the health service but elsewhere in the economy, farfrom health service but elsewhere in the economy, far from over. economy, farfrom over. ian, if economy, far from over. ian, if you could hold on for economy, farfrom over. ian, if you could hold on for a moment, we promised viewers we would bring steve barclay in a soon as we had him on camera. we now have that, so let�*s bring the reaction from the health secretary after securing that a deal. give me your reaction to today prevailed _ give me your reaction to today prevailed i_ give me your reaction to today prevailed. i am _ give me your reaction to today prevailed. i am relieved - give me your reaction to today prevailed. lam relieved it - give me your reaction to today prevailed. i am relieved it is l give me your reaction to today prevailed. i am relieved it is al prevailed. i am relieved it is a step— prevailed. i am relieved it is a step in— prevailed. i am relieved it is a step in the _ prevailed. i am relieved it is a step in the right _ prevailed. i am relieved it is a step in the right direction? i step in the right direction? this— step in the right direction? this is_ step in the right direction? this is a _ step in the right direction? this is a good _ step in the right direction? this is a good day- step in the right direction? this is a good day for- step in the right direction? this is a good day for nhsi step in the right direction? - this is a good day for nhs staff. it's this is a good day for nhs staff. it's a _ this is a good day for nhs staff. it's a good — this is a good day for nhs staff. it's a good pay rise, and it is a good — it's a good pay rise, and it is a good day— it's a good pay rise, and it is a good day for nhs staff, but also a good _ good day for nhs staff, but also a good day — good day for nhs staff, but also a good day for nhs staff, but also a good day for patients. it will allow us to— good day for patients. it will allow us to move — good day for patients. it will allow us to move forward, now the nhs staff council has ratified the deal and play— staff council has ratified the deal and play the majority of the nhs staff council, and we can now move

forward, _ staff council, and we can now move forward, focus together on patients and also _ forward, focus together on patients and also ensure that staff get their pay rise _ and also ensure that staff get their pay rise much would have been the case under— pay rise much would have been the case under the pay review body process — process. some unions are process. some ui'iioi'is are not some unions are not particularly happy— some unions are not particularly happy about— some unions are not particularly happy about this, _ some unions are not particularly happy about this, meaning - some unions are not particularly. happy about this, meaning strikes will happy about this, meaning strikes wiii probably— happy about this, meaning strikes will probably keep _ happy about this, meaning strikes will probably keep going. - happy about this, meaning strikes will probably keep going. when i happy about this, meaning strikes. will probably keep going. when you -et will probably keep going. when you get back— will probably keep going. when you get back round _ will probably keep going. when you get back round the _ will probably keep going. when you get back round the negotiating - get back round the negotiating table. — get back round the negotiating tahie. or— get back round the negotiating table. or is— get back round the negotiating table, or is this _ get back round the negotiating table, or is this the _ get back round the negotiating table, or is this the final- get back round the negotiating| table, or is this the final offer? it table, or is this the final offer? it is _ table, or is this the final offer? it is the — table, or is this the final offer? it is the final— table, or is this the final offer? it is the final offer, _ table, or is this the final offer? it is the final offer, and - table, or is this the final offer? it is the final offer, and it - table, or is this the final offer? it is the final offer, and it is - it is the final offer, and it is important _ it is the final offer, and it is important that these unions recognise the collective decision, taken _ recognise the collective decision, taken by— recognise the collective decision, taken by 14 health unions. they reached — taken by 14 health unions. they reached a — taken by 14 health unions. they reached a majority decision. it was negotiated — reached a majority decision. it was negotiated collectively. the rcn were at— negotiated collectively. the rcn were at the negotiating table. indeed. — were at the negotiating table. indeed, pat, and recommended this deal to— indeed, pat, and recommended this deal to her— indeed, pat, and recommended this deal to her own members. so it's important — deal to her own members. so it's important that everyone now respects the decision of the nhs staff councii _ the decision of the nhs staff council. it's an opportunity to now come _ council. it's an opportunity to now come together. there are further areas _ come together. there are further areas where we can work collaboratively in terms of some of the non—pay issues we discussed during _ the non—pay issues we discussed during the — the non—pay issues we discussed during the negotiations. i'm looking forward _ during the negotiations. i'm looking forward to— during the negotiations. i'm looking forward to working with trade union colleagues — forward to working with trade union colleagues on those issues, but it's a good _ colleagues on those issues, but it's a good day— colleagues on those issues, but it's a good day for nhs staff, a good day for patients, and an opportunity now to get— for patients, and an opportunity now to get that _ for patients, and an opportunity now to get that pay in staff's pay

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you have appointment _ your confidence in simon case and you have appointment in- your confidence in simon case and you have appointment in sue - your confidence in simon case and i you have appointment in sue gray? it's you have appointment in sue gray? it's important — you have appointment in sue gray? it's important that _ you have appointment in sue gray? it's important that ministers - you have appointment in sue gray? it's important that ministers and - it's important that ministers and senior— it's important that ministers and senior civil — it's important that ministers and senior civil servants were constructively together, and i'm sure _ constructively together, and i'm sure that's — constructively together, and i'm sure that's the case in number ten, as i sure that's the case in number ten, as i was— sure that's the case in number ten, as i was there. i appreciate this, i have to ask you about— i appreciate this, i have to ask you about this, — i appreciate this, i have to ask you about this, there _ i appreciate this, i have to ask you about this, there have _ i appreciate this, i have to ask you about this, there have been - i appreciate this, i have to ask you | about this, there have been claims of bullying — about this, there have been claims of bullying around _ about this, there have been claims of bullying around your— about this, there have been claims of bullying around your behaviour i about this, there have been claimsl of bullying around your behaviour in this department. _ of bullying around your behaviour in this department. we _ of bullying around your behaviour in this department. we were - of bullying around your behaviour in this department. we were told - of bullying around your behaviour in this department. we were told youl this department. we were told you did not— this department. we were told you did not know— this department. we were told you did not know anything _ this department. we were told you did not know anything about - this department. we were told you did not know anything about those| did not know anything about those claims _ did not know anything about those claims since— did not know anything about those claims. since that _ did not know anything about those claims. since that came _ did not know anything about those claims. since that came out, - did not know anything about those claims. since that came out, have| claims. since that came out, have you spoken — claims. since that came out, have you spoken to— claims. since that came out, have you spoken to people _ claims. since that came out, have you spoken to people about - claims. since that came out, have you spoken to people about why l claims. since that came out, have i you spoken to people about why that may have _ you spoken to people about why that may have come _ you spoken to people about why that may have come about? _ may have come about? no _ may have come about? no complaints- may have come about? no complaints were - may have come about? i no complaints were raised may have come about? - no complaints were raised with may have come about? _ no complaints were raised with me, but it's— no complaints were raised with me, but it's important we were constructively together. i usually vaiue _ constructively together. i usually value the — constructively together. i usually value the work officials within the end of— value the work officials within the end of the — value the work officials within the end of the course of the weekend, ministers — end of the course of the weekend, ministers and senior officials are working — ministers and senior officials are working very closely together, both in terms _ working very closely together, both in terms of — working very closely together, both in terms of the staff council decision— in terms of the staff council decision that we have a great today but also _ decision that we have a great today but also in — decision that we have a great today but also in terms of sudan and some medics _ but also in terms of sudan and some medics that— but also in terms of sudan and some medics that were in sudan, and other nritigations— medics that were in sudan, and other mitigations in the of the rcn strike — mitigations in the of the rcn strike. so we are working constructively together. that's what i'm focused on, we have an extremely positive _ i'm focused on, we have an extremely positive announcement with the staff council _ positive announcement with the staff council decision, which is an opportunity now the nhs to move forward — opportunity now the nhs to move forward. more than a million staff will get _ forward. more than a million staff will get a — forward. more than a million staff will get a pay rise. band six

nurses, _ will get a pay rise. band six nurses, over £5,000 for the two years. _ nurses, over £5,000 for the two years. so— nurses, over £5,000 for the two years. so it _ nurses, over £5,000 for the two years, so it is a very positive time for staff, — years, so it is a very positive time for staff, and _ years, so it is a very positive time for staff, and also a positive day for staff, and also a positive day for patients. one - for patients. one very quick one. should the 0ne very quick one. should the families— 0ne very quick one. should the families of— one very quick one. should the families of people _ one very quick one. should the families of people affected - one very quick one. should the families of people affected by. one very quick one. should the . families of people affected by the hormone — families of people affected by the hormone pregnancy— families of people affected by the hormone pregnancy test - families of people affected by the hormone pregnancy test get - hormone pregnancy test get compensation? _ compensation? there - compensation? there is- compensation? there is a - compensation? there is a court compensation? - there is a court case and compensation? — there is a court case and that, so it's important to let the legal process— it's important to let the legal process follow its course. they would — process follow its course. they would not _ process follow its course. they would not expect ministers to comment— would not expect ministers to comment on issues before the court, but a _ comment on issues before the court, but a baroness obviously made a series— but a baroness obviously made a series of— but a baroness obviously made a series of recommendations we have been working our way through to implement. we have taken her report extremely— implement. we have taken her report extremely seriously, but where there is a court _ extremely seriously, but where there is a court case, it is important that— is a court case, it is important that that _ is a court case, it is important that that is _ is a court case, it is important that that is allowed to go before the judiciary and follow the normal course _ course. thank you very much for your time. that's— thank you very much for your time. that's become _ thank you very much for your time. that's become of— thank you very much for your time. that's become of some _ thank you very much for your time. that's become of some of- thank you very much for your time. that's become of some of those - that�*s become of some of those points now and ian watson in westminster. ian, quite a lot get through with you. some other wider political point as well. —— let�*s pick up on some of those points. but

let�*s start with what steve barclay said. a popular move, isn�*t it? yes. said. a popular move, isn't it? yes, he said a good _ said. a popular move, isn't it? yes, he said a good day _ said. a popular move, isn't it? yes, he said a good day for— said. a popular move, isn't it? yes he said a good day for nhs staff said. a popular move, isn't it? 123 he said a good day for nhs staff and patients. he had been worrying about potential threats to patient care while health workers were taking action, particularly the rcn, who had escalated their action. but again, we must remember that their argument is that patients have put in danger every day because of what they see as underfunding in the nhs and pressures on the nhs. so i don�*t think there will be a consensus particularly on that point. statistically sound very upbeat. i think is slightly later there is correct, that i accepting the long, drawn—out process a pay review body, which evidence and looks at what the inquiries should be. i think there is also a hope from steve barclay that... he didn�*t say so there, but i think privately he will be hoping that if the government can get inflation under control end of the year, then perhaps at the time of the rcn will be rebalancing on whether to take further strike action, perhaps a 5% increase will start to look a little bit better

thanit start to look a little bit better than it did when inflation was running at around 11% earlier in the year. so i think there are some positives, as he would see it, from this, but equally, i think we should be aware that we still have two of the health unions on strike, and i think probably it is wishful thinking that industrial action will end overnight. united still have a mandate for this from their members. though they rejected the pay deal very narrowly, there are still some areas where unite members feel very strongly indeed, in health service trusts in london in the west midlands, for example, and among ambulance crews. he made it very clear there that that was the point of as i understand would get them to potentially coffee strike action as if these one—off that were given for the last financial year were actually translated into a proper pay rise, a percentage pay increases, but it sounds as though thatis increases, but it sounds as though that is still going to be quite a

big sticking point. yes, the uk there�*s unite union has said that the vote to accept the pay deal would not stop the agreed strike spite unite health service members going ahead. hold on for a second, ian. let mejust ask katharine da costa a question about something that came up as well from steve barclay�*s something that came up as well from steve ba rclay�*s statement. katharine, the union secretary recommending the deal, but the union as a whole not. how does that work? pat cullen, the union secretary, was in conversation with the members, and was willing to in conversation with the members, and was willin— in conversation with the members, and was willing to discuss what was on the table. _ and was willing to discuss what was on the table, and _ and was willing to discuss what was on the table, and she _ and was willing to discuss what was on the table, and she put _ and was willing to discuss what was on the table, and she put that - and was willing to discuss what was on the table, and she put that to i on the table, and she put that to their— on the table, and she put that to their members, and it is up to the members— their members, and it is up to the members to— their members, and it is up to the members to decide whether they back the deal— members to decide whether they back the deal or— members to decide whether they back the deal or not, and in the end, they— the deal or not, and in the end, they voted _ the deal or not, and in the end, they voted against. and _ they voted against. and they make up quite a large section— and they make up quite a large section of— and they make up quite a large section of the workforce in the nhs,

and so, _ section of the workforce in the nhs, and so, the — section of the workforce in the nhs, and so, the rcn would say, you might have got— and so, the rcn would say, you might have got an _ and so, the rcn would say, you might have got an overall majority, but this does— have got an overall majority, but this does not end the dispute with nurses, _ this does not end the dispute with nurses, and they are still planning to go— nurses, and they are still planning to go ahead with a ballot for a fresh — to go ahead with a ballot for a fresh strike mandate in the next few weeks _ fresh strike mandate in the next few weeks we _ fresh strike mandate in the next few weeks. we could get a result by summer~ — summer. right. and we get confused summer. — right. and we get confused between unison and unite, and there are a number of different groups involved here. you wanted to talk about something that you had said earlier in relation to this pay deal? yes, there was a slight error in saying — yes, there was a slight error in saying that _ yes, there was a slight error in saying that unison were still striking. _ saying that unison were still striking, just to reiterate, it is unite — striking, just to reiterate, it is unite a — striking, just to reiterate, it is unite, a much smaller union, representing around 4000 members. unison— representing around 4000 members. unison is— representing around 4000 members. unison is one of the larger unions, nearly— unison is one of the larger unions, nearly 400,000. they were one of the ones who— nearly 400,000. they were one of the ones who accepted the deal in the first place — first place. yes, unison now the one first place. — yes, unison now the one pushing hard, really, for it to start as

soon as possible, and as you say, unite holding on at the moment, suggesting the strikes might go on. what else did you gather, katharine, from what steve barclay was saying, about how relieved he will be to have brought through this pay deal? its clearly good news from steve barclay — its clearly good news from steve barclay and the government. it gives them _ barclay and the government. it gives them a _ barclay and the government. it gives them a bit _ barclay and the government. it gives them a bit of a breathing space, and they can _ them a bit of a breathing space, and they can say— them a bit of a breathing space, and they can say they have secured the result _ they can say they have secured the result that — they can say they have secured the result that they were hopeful and optimistic they would get. he says it demonstrates that the majority of union— it demonstrates that the majority of union see _ it demonstrates that the majority of union see the deal is fair and reasonable. he does identify, though. — reasonable. he does identify, though, that they have things that they need — though, that they have things that they need to work and to improve things— they need to work and to improve things within the workforce. so, for ekanrple. _ things within the workforce. so, for example, gmb have listed a number of areas and _ example, gmb have listed a number of areas and things like looking at retirement age payment for overtime payments _ retirement age payment for overtime payments. they have also asked for more _ payments. they have also asked for more help— payments. they have also asked for more help to tackle violence against their workers, and they have looked at the _ their workers, and they have looked at the health service for the public and are _ at the health service for the public and are asking for more funding for mentai— and are asking for more funding for mental health and social care,

because — mental health and social care, because they say too often, their paramedics are tied up dealing with issues _ paramedics are tied up dealing with issues that would be more better served _ issues that would be more better served in— issues that would be more better served in other parts of the health service _ served in other parts of the health service so — served in other parts of the health service. so there are no it is a whole — service. so there are no it is a whole list _ service. so there are no it is a whole list of the things they would like to— whole list of the things they would like to see addressed, as well as what _ like to see addressed, as well as what they— like to see addressed, as well as what they see as a decade of below inflation _ what they see as a decade of below inflation pay rises, and obviously, it is not— inflation pay rises, and obviously, it is not resolved some of the other unions, _ it is not resolved some of the other unions, like. — it is not resolved some of the other unions, like, as we said, unite, and the radiographers, who are planning to ballot _ the radiographers, who are planning to ballot. unite still have got their— to ballot. unite still have got their mandate. this is not over, and later— their mandate. this is not over, and later today, — their mandate. this is not over, and latertoday, ministers their mandate. this is not over, and later today, ministers will speak to the british— later today, ministers will speak to the british medical association, representing junior doctors. they are on— representing junior doctors. they are on a — representing junior doctors. they are on a different contract, so it is a different dispute with them. they— is a different dispute with them. they have — is a different dispute with them. they have already walked out twice. there _ they have already walked out twice. there are _ they have already walked out twice. there are no fresh dates in the diary. — there are no fresh dates in the diary. and _ there are no fresh dates in the diary, and it is hoped to date, they can perhaps — diary, and it is hoped to date, they can perhaps sit down, look at some common— can perhaps sit down, look at some common ground and try and work through— common ground and try and work through this. they have been calling for a 35% _ through this. they have been calling for a 35% pay rise to make up for over— for a 35% pay rise to make up for over a _ for a 35% pay rise to make up for over a decade of below inflation pay rises _ over a decade of below inflation pay rises that's — over a decade of below inflation pay rises. that's something the government has said isjust unaffordable. so they are trying to

find some — unaffordable. so they are trying to find some common ground. katharine, while we are looking at the fact that this deal has been secured, that�*s help our viewers with two groups. the nhs staff council. can you explain what that is, how it works and why it is relevant today? that is made up of these 14 have unions _ that is made up of these 14 have unions and — that is made up of these 14 have unions and also incorporates nhs leaders _ unions and also incorporates nhs leaders and government officials, who also— leaders and government officials, who also sit on that. so that is who are meeting — who also sit on that. so that is who are meeting today to discuss the deal _ are meeting today to discuss the deal the — are meeting today to discuss the deal. the unions put it to their members _ deal. the unions put it to their members to vote. many of them had already— members to vote. many of them had already reported as results, which is why— already reported as results, which is why it _ already reported as results, which is why it was widely expected the deal would have been back, and now we have _ deal would have been back, and now we have that result confirming it has been. — we have that result confirming it has been, and some of the ministers were in— has been, and some of the ministers were in that — has been, and some of the ministers were in that meeting, and sleep luckily— were in that meeting, and sleep luckily there saying that they will implement it and it could be in pay packets— implement it and it could be in pay packets very soon, as early as next

month _ month. and as i month. — and as i understand, this deal which was on their desks which have the title agenda for change, this has been something that has been in the works possibly as far back as 2004, this new pay and conditions structure. how significant is that for the nhs going forwards? well, agenda for change as the contract — well, agenda for change as the contract that represents most health workers. _ contract that represents most health workers, more than a million in the nhs, _ workers, more than a million in the nhs, from — workers, more than a million in the nhs, from nurses and paramedics down and cleaners _ nhs, from nurses and paramedics down and cleaners. they are represented by a number of different unions, and they make _ by a number of different unions, and they make up this staff counsel,, that's— they make up this staff counsel,, that's why— they make up this staff counsel,, that's why it's different when you are talking about doctors and dentists, _ are talking about doctors and dentists, who are on a completely different— dentists, who are on a completely different contract. some unions have criticised _ different contract. some unions have criticised the pay body, the independent body that looks at pay rises _ independent body that looks at pay rises the — independent body that looks at pay rises. the gmb in particular has said that — rises. the gmb in particular has said that it— rises. the gmb in particular has said that it needs to be a more transparent process, and needs to be able to— transparent process, and needs to be able to negotiate directly with the government. so that something it is asking _ government. so that something it is asking the _ government. so that something it is asking the government to look katharine, thank you talking ——

thank— katharine, thank you talking —— thank you — katharine, thank you talking —— thank you for talking us through that _ that. ian, there that. - ian, there has that. — ian, there has been much anticipation, waiting for the movement in the political dial after the strikes built through the winter and deciding what is the turning point for the government, if the momentum is now with them. would you say that this is that moment? no, i don�*t think it is, to be blunt, because not only art to health union still in dispute with the government, that we thought the dispute with the railways would be sorted. —— not only are two health unions are still in dispute. the train drivers are taking potential action over that eurovision weekend, and of course, in many parts of england today, we now have teachers on strike, and no end in sight to their particular dispute. we were told the government are aiming to