voice-over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk, i'm sarah montague. it's more than 60 years since the dalai lama fled to hit and set up a government in exile, hopeful of one day going back. since then china

has banned any mention of the spiritual leader in his homeland, and there are reports of widespread human rights abuses. my guest today is the president of that self—declared government in exile, penpa tsering. will he ever get to see his ancestral homeland, let alone govern it? penpa tsering, welcome to hardtalk. penpa tsering, welcome to hardtalk— penpa tsering, welcome to| hardtalk._ what penpa tsering, welcome to i hardtalk._ what is hardtalk. thank you. what is the dream. — hardtalk. thank you. what is the dream, what _ hardtalk. thank you. what is the dream, what is _ hardtalk. thank you. what is the dream, what is it - hardtalk. thank you. what is the dream, what is it you - hardtalk. thank you. what is| the dream, what is it you want for tibet?—

for tibet? considering the reality of _ for tibet? considering the reality of the _ for tibet? considering the reality of the situation - for tibet? considering the | reality of the situation and the common interests of people, now we are asking for autonomy, rather than independence, genuine autonomy not only in name but also essence, that is what we are looking for. to resolve the sino to bit conflict with nonviolence peaceful means through negotiation should be mutually beneficial and lasting. just negotiation should be mutually beneficial and lasting.- beneficial and lasting. just to beneficial and lasting. just to be clear the _ beneficial and lasting. just to be clear the chinese - beneficial and lasting. just to be clear the chinese foreign | be clear the chinese foreign ministry spokesman said the so—called government in exile as an out and out separatist political group, you say you are no longer that you accept type it is part of china? —— to bit. type it is part of china? -- to bit. ~ , ., bit. whether it is part of china in _ bit. whether it is part of china in future - bit. whether it is part of china in future as - bit. whether it is part of china in future as a - bit. whether it is part of i china in future as a future bit. whether it is part of - china in future as a future to bruce —— be resolved then we can be part of china, historically it has been a

independent country, what we are asking for, considering the reality of the situation inside tibet, whether the tibetan identity will remain alive for us, so to prevent the typewritten identity, language, religion, way of life and the environment, that is more important for us. we environment, that is more important for us.— environment, that is more important for us. we will come onto that _ important for us. we will come onto that in — important for us. we will come onto that in a _ important for us. we will come onto that in a moment, - important for us. we will come onto that in a moment, i- important for us. we will come onto that in a moment, i want| onto that in a moment, i want to make clear about your goals because there isn't a country in the world that dispute china's claim to sovereignty over tibet. china's claim to sovereignty overtibet. do china's claim to sovereignty over tibet. do you still dispute that because that is one of the reasons they say there is no point having conversations?- there is no point having conversations? . ., , conversations? china always, they used _ conversations? china always, they used to _ conversations? china always, they used to put _ conversations? china always, they used to put this - they used to put this precondition for his holiness to say tibet has been part of china since antiquity, but that is not the case, that is not

the truth. tibet has been independent to communist china invaded tibet. so that is the reality, but we leave the independent status of tibet aside but ask for china autonomy, for the benefit of the hardtalk and the few —— the tibet in the future. that autonomy _ tibet in the future. that autonomy what - tibet in the future. that autonomy what does . tibet in the future. that. autonomy what does that tibet in the future. that autonomy what does that look like, does that look like hong kong? like, does that look like hong kona ? ., like, does that look like hong konu? ., , like, does that look like hong kohi? ., . , ., kong? not necessarily, hong kona kong? not necessarily, hong kong people _ kong? not necessarily, hong kong people are _ kong? not necessarily, hong kong people are completelyl kong people are completely different to tibetan people, we are not hong kong chinese. does it look like _ are not hong kong chinese. does it look like taiwan, _ are not hong kong chinese. does it look like taiwan, they - are not hong kong chinese. does it look like taiwan, they are - it look like taiwan, they are chinese people?— it look like taiwan, they are chinese people? they are also chinese people? they are also chinese people. _ chinese people? they are also chinese people. but _ chinese people? they are also chinese people. but they - chinese people? they are also chinese people. but they have more independence, - chinese people. but they have more independence, this - more independence, this autonomy you talk about, how on earth cannot work?— autonomy you talk about, how on earth cannot work? when we say, we are talking _ earth cannot work? when we say, we are talking about _ earth cannot work? when we say,

we are talking about avoiding - we are talking about avoiding extreme polarities, the polarities in this case is the independent status of tibet, on the one hand and the present condition of chinese occupation in tibet on the other hand so we need to find a middle way. indeed but your middle way i'm trying to envisage how it would work with you as a president of an autonomous region working alongside and with the chinese government?— government? that is what his holiness said, _ government? that is what his holiness said, autonomy - government? that is what his i holiness said, autonomy means we are willing to live within the constitution or the framework of the chinese constitution.— framework of the chinese constitution. . , ., constitution. can you see that working? _ constitution. can you see that working? autonomy _ constitution. can you see that working? autonomy means i constitution. can you see that| working? autonomy means we constitution. can you see that - working? autonomy means we are willin: to working? autonomy means we are willing to live _ working? autonomy means we are willing to live within _ working? autonomy means we are willing to live within the _ willing to live within the framework of the chinese constitution.— framework of the chinese constitution. can you see it working. — constitution. can you see it working. it _ constitution. can you see it working, it is _ constitution. can you see it working, it is all— constitution. can you see it working, it is all very - constitution. can you see it working, it is all very well. working, it is all very well saying that, the reality? this, i cannot say — saying that, the reality? this, i cannot say what _ saying that, the reality? this, i cannot say what form - saying that, the reality? this, i cannot say what form of - i cannot say what form of autonomy will shape up, but this is something that we need to discuss with china and then find out what is possible. it

find out what is possible. it isjust that he find out what is possible. it is just that he you are accepting something that clearly is not really the dream, your dream is an independent tibet. you have accepted it, perhaps because since 1959, when the dalai lama went into exile, that dream is only gotten further and further away. you accept that? h0. away. you accept that? no, under the — away. you accept that? no, under the present _ under the present circumstances, yes, but we believe in impermanence, things have to change, in china too, things will have to change. in things will have to change. in the way they have changed over the way they have changed over the last six years, your dreams only got further away. your efforts at realising it had failed? ., ., �* ~ ., failed? failed, i don't know, western view, _ failed? failed, i don't know, western view, if _ failed? failed, i don't know, western view, if we - failed? failed, i don't know, western view, if we have - failed? failed, i don't know, i western view, if we have failed western view, if we have failed we would be nowhere, i wouldn't be speaking to you today. {lila be speaking to you today. ok, let's talk about _ be speaking to you today. ok, let's talk about what you said is paramount concern,

preserving the identity of tibet and tibetans. there are some very big claims made about what is happening in tibet. you said it is dying a slow death under chinese rule, the us republican representative chris smith talks about it as a ongoing genocide, the tibetan activist richard gere talks about what is going on as matching the definition of crimes against humanity. what are you talking about that you say is such a threat? politically, there is no space whatsoever for the tibetans to express their feelings, let alone, do other things, political activities. so all your political actions are linked to the welfare of your near and dear ones. linked to the welfare of your nearand dear ones. i linked to the welfare of your near and dear ones. i committed a violation today i have two think many times, i may die i may get scarred for life but

thatis may get scarred for life but that is my kin and friend that will suffer because of that. just to if you set yourself on fire, one of the reasons not to do that is who would suffer after you have gone?- do that is who would suffer after you have gone? that is what the _ after you have gone? that is what the chinese _ after you have gone? that is| what the chinese government does, all your actions are linked to the welfare of your near and dear ones, that is the gridlock system, people don't have, you have to think many times as i mentioned, 157 tibetans have self immolated so far, hoping against hope the chinese government to pay some attention to their plight, hoping against hope international community will come to the rescue. that's not happening. we come to the rescue. that's not happening-— come to the rescue. that's not happening. we are in a strange situation because _ happening. we are in a strange situation because you - happening. we are in a strange situation because you have - situation because you have never been to tibet? that's why to fulfil my _ never been to tibet? that's why to fulfil my emotional _ never been to tibet? that's why to fulfil my emotional needs - never been to tibet? that's why to fulfil my emotional needs i i to fulfil my emotional needs i try to go to the in to be on board as much as possible to seek tibet from the other side.

what you know about what it is like there, you make claims, claims we are talking about, do you know how the welfare of the people of tibet is best served? we hear, we have tibetans coming out from tibet, we have information, so we study the situation inside tibet. we know what's happening there. painters a picture of the kind of things you are talking about, which are eradicating the identity of tibetans? just like every — the identity of tibetans? just like every other— the identity of tibetans? jut like every other culture, the tibetan buddhist culture is also based on tibetan language. today, the chinese government policies and programmes are all aimed at eradication of the tibetan language. at one time i really used to fear, democratic

aggression from china because there are more chinese in tibet and tibetans. now they have changed the tactic another have started colonial style boarding schools, where children from 3— six years old, a few years back it was only several hundred and boarding schools.— boarding schools. there are more chinese _ boarding schools. there are more chinese in _ boarding schools. there are more chinese in tibet - boarding schools. there are more chinese in tibet than l more chinese in tibet than tibetans? there are three and half million people in tibet? that also depends on how you define tibet geographically. in define tibet geographically. in the autonomous region of tibet it is understood there are 3.5 million people, how many are tibetan and how many are chinese?— tibetan and how many are chinese? ., , , ., chinese? roughly, we still have roblems chinese? roughly, we still have problems counting _ chinese? roughly, we still have problems counting military - chinese? roughly, we still have problems counting military and | problems counting military and the temporary labourers who keep moving in and out but otherwise, the whole of tibet, in the quote, traditional

tibet, we are counting about 7 million tibetans. but tibet, we are counting about 7 million tibetans.— million tibetans. but that was around the — million tibetans. but that was around the world _ million tibetans. but that was around the world and - million tibetans. but that was around the world and in - million tibetans. but that was| around the world and in china, what i'm wondering is that in the tibetan autonomous region, the tibetan autonomous region, the area that we were talking about, you said, that there are more chinese than tibetans but there aren't, are the? not according to the census. the census, again _ according to the census. the census, again if _ according to the census. the census, again if you - according to the census. tue: census, again if you look according to the census. tte: census, again if you look at the chinese census of 2020, how definitive it is in terms of defining residences... professor andrew fisher a tibet expert at the hague, he looked at the census and says the hand chinese population is increasing but from a very —— very low base but it still is a small minority in the country, in the nation?—

small minority in the country, in the nation? that's how much that -- that _ in the nation? that's how much that -- that depends _ in the nation? that's how much that -- that depends on - in the nation? that's how much that -- that depends on how i that —— that depends on how much you trust the chinese numbers. much you trust the chinese numbere— much you trust the chinese numbers. ., ~ ., , numbers. you think there has been a deliberate _ numbers. you think there has been a deliberate policy i numbers. you think there has been a deliberate policy of i been a deliberate policy of allowing chinese and to move there? . , , allowing chinese and to move there? ., , , , ., there? there has been but now there? there has been but now there is not _ there? there has been but now there is not as _ there? there has been but now there is not as much _ there? there has been but now there is not as much as - there? there has been but now there is not as much as we i there is not as much as we feared, that is what i have been pointing out, that is why they are changing the policy to start these boarding schools. the boarding schools are for what, tibetan children who get sent away?— sent away? who are sent to boarding — sent away? who are sent to boarding schools, _ sent away? who are sent to boarding schools, and i sent away? who are sent to boarding schools, and in i sent away? who are sent to i boarding schools, and in these boarding schools, and in these boarding schools, and in these boarding schools, then you are taught chinese, the medium of instruction as mandarin, you are taught chinese history the chinese version of history they are taught a version of communist china, then you are taught how to maintain your allegiance to the communist party all that and tibetan language is only four classes a

week as they claim.— language is only four classes a week as they claim. china says, that actually — week as they claim. china says, that actually what _ week as they claim. china says, that actually what has _ week as they claim. china says, | that actually what has happened in the region is that you have double digit economic growth there over quarter of a century, that poverty has reduced by 80%, that people live longer, it was 35 in the 19505 live longer, it was 35 in the 1950s and now people live until they are 70. and they cite these things as reasons china has benefited tibet? tt these things as reasons china has benefited tibet?- has benefited tibet? if tibet had been — has benefited tibet? if tibet had been left _ has benefited tibet? if tibet had been left alone - has benefited tibet? if tibet had been left alone by i had been left alone by themselves or for themselves, it would have approached a certain level of development. i don't think it is necessarily for china to come to tibet to claim such development, of course, every time when there are talks the chinese say oh, we developed tibet so much, so why are tibetans complaining, the problem with the chinese leadership they fail to

understand the real aspiration of the tibetan people. it is notjust economic development, it is for china in problem or solution is economic development. they don't think about and their aspirations. t5 about and their aspirations. is it too late, when a reuters journalist was taken there on a tour and admitted it was closely guarded and guided, he spoke to a monk at the historic temple, and when he was asked who was spiritual leader was he said the chinese president. she jinping. said the chinese president. she jinina. ., ~' ., said the chinese president. she jinina. ., ~ ., , ., ., jinping. you know the situation in tibet, jinping. you know the situation in tibet. if— jinping. you know the situation in tibet, if you _ jinping. you know the situation in tibet, if you don't _ jinping. you know the situation in tibet, if you don't abide i jinping. you know the situation in tibet, if you don't abide by l in tibet, if you don't abide by the words of the chinese leaders you have a problem and you can also see that chinese leaders are communist but forcing their pictures from

bouncy tom, their pictures are fully displayed. bouncy tom, their pictures are fully displayed-— fully displayed. there are no ictures fully displayed. there are no pictures of— fully displayed. there are no pictures of the _ fully displayed. there are no pictures of the dalai - fully displayed. there are no pictures of the dalai lama i fully displayed. there are no pictures of the dalai lama in monasteries or anywhere? thea;r monasteries or anywhere? they are not allowed _ monasteries or anywhere? they are not allowed in _ monasteries or anywhere? they are not allowed in the _ monasteries or anywhere? tt2 are not allowed in the tibetan autonomous region. share are not allowed in the tibetan autonomous region.— autonomous region. are you fi . htin: autonomous region. are you fighting for _ autonomous region. are you fighting for something i autonomous region. are you fighting for something that l autonomous region. are you i fighting for something that can no longer exist because tibet has moved on? cannot either summing up no longer exists because tibet has moved on? the because tibet has moved on? no loner because tibet has moved on? th? longer exist? because tibet has moved on? no longer exist? as _ because tibet has moved on? no longer exist? as a _ because tibet has moved on? no longer exist? as a people? i because tibet has moved on? no longer exist? as a people? no, | longer exist? as a people? no, the culture- _ longer exist? as a people? no, the culture. whether _ longer exist? as a people? no, the culture. whether you i longer exist? as a people? no, the culture. whether you are i the culture. whether you are too late. whatever the rights and wrongs of your claim, 60 years on, are you too late? are you fighting for something that no longer exists? tt’s you fighting for something that no longer exists?— no longer exists? it's been eroded. — no longer exists? it's been eroded, it's _ no longer exists? it's been eroded, it's been - no longer exists? it's been i eroded, it's been decimated. that does not necessarily mean to say that it no longer exists. of course, every community moves on, every country moves on and that is why, in exile, we have strived very hard over the last 63 years to re—establish most of

the monastic institutions in exile, in india, nepal, in bhutan and elsewhere and other parts of world.— parts of world. you've said previously. _ parts of world. you've said previously, he _ parts of world. you've said previously, he said - parts of world. you've said previously, he said a i parts of world. you've said l previously, he said a couple parts of world. you've said i previously, he said a couple of years ago that they were back channels with china that remained active, despite there being no official communications between the two. are they still active, do spill speak to the chinese?- are they still active, do spill speak to the chinese? --do you still? yes- _ speak to the chinese? --do you still? yes. what _ speak to the chinese? --do you still? yes. what purpose - speak to the chinese? --do you still? yes. what purpose do i still? yes. what purpose do they serve? _ still? yes. what purpose do they serve? if _ still? yes. what purpose do they serve? if the _ still? yes. what purpose do they serve? if the tibetan, sino tibet conflict needs to be resolved, there is no other way than by talking to the chinese leadership. abby spoken to the chinese leadership? back channels. _ chinese leadership? back channels, yes. _ chinese leadership? back channels, yes. which i chinese leadership? back channels, yes. which presumably means you have.— channels, yes. which presumably means you have. x�*t�*es�*? what do means you have. yes? what do ou ask means you have. yes? what do you ask for? — means you have. yes? what do you ask for? first _ means you have. yes? what do you ask for? first we _ means you have. yes? what do you ask for? first we have i means you have. yes? what do you ask for? first we have to i you ask for? first we have to build the _ you ask for? first we have to build the contacts. _ you ask for? first we have to build the contacts. we i you ask for? first we have to build the contacts. we are i you ask for? first we have to l build the contacts. we are not at this stage. we have to rebuild the contact, it's too early to talk about right now.

one thing you did want to mention is for the dalai lama to be allowed to go back to tibet. we're talking about somebody in late 80s. is there any chance that you can conceive of that happening? tit conceive of that happening? ti the next months, yes, we are really hoping it will be able to go back to tibet. that doesn't mean you will stay back into bed. if he gets the opportunity to go to china, tibet, he will go but he will return back to india. what's makinu return back to india. what's making you _ return back to india. what's making you hopeful - return back to india. what's making you hopeful he i return back to india. what's making you hopeful he will| return back to india. what's i making you hopeful he will be able to go there, even on a short visit?— able to go there, even on a short visit? we always remain ositive short visit? we always remain positive and — short visit? we always remain positive and hope. _ short visit? we always remain positive and hope. if- short visit? we always remain positive and hope. if there i short visit? we always remain positive and hope. if there is| positive and hope. if there is no hope, we would not be where we are today. no hope, we would not be where we are today-— we are today. right. i want to talk about _ we are today. right. i want to talk about the _ we are today. right. i want to talk about the dalai _ we are today. right. i want to| talk about the dalai lama now and what is done because the secretary for debate cosmic department education said, since dalai lama defected, he hasn't done anything good for the tibetan people. what do you

think about that?— think about that? that's what they always _ think about that? that's what they always say _ think about that? that's what they always say and - think about that? that's what they always say and we i think about that? that's what they always say and we all i think about that? that's what i they always say and we all know what his holiness has been doing over the last 63 years. inside tibet, there is no way you can do anything other than inspire people and it's because of him that tibetans are desisting from any kind of violence. it's not because they cannot take up violence. his holiness said, if you take up violence, i will not be responsible for the cost. that itself is the influence of his holiness on the tibetans and improving the situation inside tibet is not in his hands but in exile, over the last 63 years, we managed to establish contact communities and in these compact communities, we have monastic institutions, cultural institutions and so on. that's how we survived today. on. that's how we survived toda . �* , on. that's how we survived toda . v . .. on. that's how we survived toda. �*, ., ,, ., ., today. let's talk about what happened — today. let's talk about what happened in _ today. let's talk about what happened in february i today. let's talk about what happened in february when | today. let's talk about what i happened in february when the

dalai lama, ata happened in february when the dalai lama, at a public and film event kissed a young boy on the lips and said to him, " suck my tongue." how do you explain that? suck my tongue." how do you explain that?— explain that? this is a little bit out of — explain that? this is a little bit out of the _ explain that? this is a little bit out of the way. - explain that? this is a little bit out of the way. i - explain that? this is a little bit out of the way. i have i explain that? this is a little l bit out of the way. i have not seen his holiness in that sense in my 25 years of association. you were surprised? when the clip came out, i was surprised. shocked? not shocked, because his holiness intended, he is someone who has been practising buddhism over the last 87 years and there is no instance or track record of his holiness having done anything of that sort, and in that sense, i was not shocked, i was not even worried but of course, people will have their opinion and they have the right to their opinion.

they have the right to their oinion. �* , they have the right to their oinion. fl ., they have the right to their oinion. �*, ., , , , opinion. it's not surprising, is it? an — opinion. it's not surprising, is it? an 87-year-old i opinion. it's not surprising, is it? an 87-year-old manl opinion. it's not surprising, i is it? an 87-year-old man says is it? an 87—year—old man says to a nine—year—old boy" suck my tongue". it's not surprising people are shocked. tit tongue". it's not surprising people are shocked.- people are shocked. if you watch the _ people are shocked. if you watch the whole _ people are shocked. if you watch the whole video... | people are shocked. if you i watch the whole video... which i have. watch the whole video... which i have- you _ watch the whole video... which i have. you will _ watch the whole video... which i have. you will know _ watch the whole video... which i have. you will know whether i i have. you will know whether this is a grandfatherly - i have. you will know whether this is a grandfatherly love i i have. you will know whether this is a grandfatherly love or| this is a grandfatherly love or lost. ,, . ~' this is a grandfatherly love or lost. ,, , ., lost. suck my tongue. in the words of _ lost. suck my tongue. in the words of the _ lost. suck my tongue. in the words of the survivors i lost. suck my tongue. in the l words of the survivors network those abused by priests, which is a us organisation, they seen 87—year—old man asking a young boy to perform a blatantly sexual act in a public setting is very disturbing.— is very disturbing. suck my tongue- — is very disturbing. suck my tongue. maybe _ is very disturbing. suck my tongue. maybe for - is very disturbing. suck my - tongue. maybe for westerners, it's a sexual thing but into bed, when we were younger, we used to be kissed, we used to be served forward, elders would chew and give food to the younger ones. that is natural. but this "suck my tongue" is more like eat my tongue. the whole video starts with, i'm not trying to blame the boy, it

starts with his holiness arriving and the boy giving the coconut as an auspicious welcome to him and the his holiness sits there and the boy was also given the responsibility to present to give to his holiness. indeed. in the boy — give to his holiness. indeed. in the boy comes _ give to his holiness. indeed. in the boy comes back - give to his holiness. indeed. in the boy comes back and i give to his holiness. indeed. i in the boy comes back and asks for a hug. watching the whole sequence of it, one is left thinking, that was very strange, that was very strange and arguably, people will suggest, look, this is somebody who is, what, 87? 81 suggest, look, this is somebody who is, what, 87?— who is, what, 87? 87, going to be 88. who is, what, 87? 87, going to be 88- and _ who is, what, 87? 87, going to be 88. and there _ who is, what, 87? 87, going to be 88. and there are... - who is, what, 87? 87, going to be 88. and there are... one i who is, what, 87? 87, going to be 88. and there are... one of the things _ be 88. and there are... one of the things that _ be 88. and there are... one of the things that has _ be 88. and there are... one of the things that has been - be 88. and there are... one of| the things that has been talked about is the plan, if there is such a one, for his reincarnation. he has said he will appoint a lama when he is 90. how is that going to work? this is a totally different subject. this is about his holiness reincarnation. the only official document that is available right now is the 2011

september document and that says that when his holiness reaches the age of 90, he will take certain decisions. 87, going to be 88 and in another two years' time, we will go through certain procedures within the community and then his holiness, when he reaches 90, will be organising of meetings including religious heads. ., ,., ., ,~' meetings including religious heads. ,, heads. the reason i ask this is that he has — heads. the reason i ask this is that he has been _ heads. the reason i ask this is that he has been a _ heads. the reason i ask this is that he has been a pivotal- that he has been a pivotal figure among tibetans in exile, campaigning around the world. he can't travel so much now. whoever takes on that position could be very powerful or they could be very powerful or they could be very powerful or they could be a young boy unable to be involved for, what, 20 years, or indeed, a young girl, oran years, or indeed, a young girl, or an american, or is it possible that somebody was a fair bit older could be anointed as lama? .,, ., , anointed as lama? those options are still epen- —

anointed as lama? those options are still open. his _ anointed as lama? those options are still open. his holiness, - are still open. his holiness, when he is asked whether it could be a woman, he says yes, it could be a woman. if could be a woman, he says yes, it could be a woman.— it could be a woman. it could be an american _ it could be a woman. it could be an american who - it could be a woman. it could be an american who is - it could be a woman. it could be an american who is in - it could be a woman. it couldl be an american who is in their 305? ht be an american who is in their 305? . ., , be an american who is in their 30s? , a, 30s? it could be anybody. it miaht 30s? it could be anybody. it might not — 30s? it could be anybody. it might not necessarily - 30s? it could be anybody. it might not necessarily be - 30s? it could be anybody. it might not necessarily be a l might not necessarily be a tibetan. if he is from india, he will be called indian. if he is born in america, he will be an american.— is born in america, he will be an american. and when china declares a — an american. and when china declares a llama _ an american. and when china declares a llama as _ an american. and when china declares a llama as is - an american. and when china i declares a llama as is expected to do, what happens there? i to do, what happens there? i don't know, because the question is, i keep chiding my chinese friends, saying, let us see whether his holiness the dalai lama outlives the communist party of the communist party of the communist party of the communist party outlives the dalai lama. when the time comes, if china decides whether to be around or not, whether the time comes, if china decides to choose one in the tibetans choose one, i tell the

chinese government, do you want a lifelong problem on your hands? ,w,w a lifelong problem on your hands? , ., ~' a lifelong problem on your hands? ~ hands? do you think you will ever see _ hands? do you think you will ever see tibet... _ hands? do you think you will ever see tibet... you - hands? do you think you will ever see tibet... you were l hands? do you think you will. ever see tibet... you were born outside the country. i ever see tibet. .. you were born outside the country.— outside the country. i really look forward _ outside the country. i really look forward to _ outside the country. i really look forward to it. - outside the country. i really look forward to it. i - outside the country. i really look forward to it. i think i l look forward to it. i think i would be able to go back stop realistically, when? nobody knows. if i can tell that, i would. knows. ifi can tell that, i would. , ., , ., knows. ifi can tell that, i would. , . , ., :: would. there is a plan. 5-50. is it five _ would. there is a plan. 5-50. is it five years, _ would. there is a plan. 5-50. is it five years, is _ would. there is a plan. 5-50. is it five years, is it _ would. there is a plan. 5-50. is it five years, is it 50 - is it five years, is it 50 years?— is it five years, is it 50 ears? �* ., ., , , years? i'm not into numbers, i'm more _ years? i'm not into numbers, i'm more into _ years? i'm not into numbers, i'm more into practical- years? i'm not into numbers, | i'm more into practicalthings. i'm more into practical things. in the practical next steps for the government in exile i want? reach out to the chinese government and see how we can resolve this and reach out to the international community and explain the situation to them. thank you very much for coming on hardtalk.

hello there. many of us had some beautiful late spring sunshine on wednesday. in fact, in bournemouth, there was just over 13 hours of sunshine, a glorious day. but top temperature, well, that was in south wales, in gwynedd, just shy of 20 celsius, and it felt very pleasant indeed. now it's not out of the question that we could see 20 celsius on thursday, but the weather story is certainly on the change with low pressure starting to move in from the southwest. so as we go through the day on thursday, it's a tale of three halves, really — we've got cloud driving in off the north sea, affecting eastern england and northeast scotland. we've got rain pushing into the southwest — and sandwiched in between the two, that's where the best of the sunshine is likely

to be, and that's where we'll see the best of the warmth. the breeze still coming from an east direction, so with exposure, that's just going to add a slight edge to things. a little more shelter, it'll feel pleasant enough with highs of 19—20 celsius perhaps in the southeast. now, as we move out of thursday into friday, that weatherfront will continue to push its way steadily north. it'll bring outbreaks of rain as it does so, and then, following on behind, plenty of showers to come. so on friday, we'll see a spell of more persistent rain moving out of northeast england, into scotland. sunny spells and scattered showers tucking in behind. some of those showers could be heavy, slow—moving, with the odd rumble of thunder. now, not everybody will see the showers, but because the winds are slightly lighter coming

from a southwesterly direction, maybe those showers might hang around for a little bit longer. still a cool easterly, making it feel fresher in scotland, but highs likely of 18 celsius by friday afternoon. now, as we move into the start of the weekend, that southwesterly wind will drive that milder air further north for all of us. but unfortunately, it'll also bring some wetter weather. so this is saturday, coronation day — you can see that wet weather moving its way across the capital and steadily north as we go through the day. so not a wash—out by any means, but at the moment, it does look likely that during the morning, there will be outbreaks of rain across the capital, certainly worth bearing in mind. and the wider picture throughout the bank. holiday weekend — saturday will be the wettest of the days, sunday and monday, sunny spells and scattered showers. some of them on monday could be quite heavy. take care.

no longer exist because tibet

has moved on?

live from london. this is bbc news. hours after russia accuses ukraine of carrying out a drone attack on the kremlin, explosions have been are heard in kyiv. a serbian teenager is arrested after eight children and a security guard are shot dead at an elementary school in belgrade. the un's humanitarian chief says the two warring parties are keen to continue fighting despite hopes of a ceasefire. it isa it is a shocking crisis, first, because as you have heard, and eyes i have now heard, the

tales of traumatic atrocity.