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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  May 4, 2023 10:30pm-11:11pm BST

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england and wales. could see some sunshine in the afternoon, it will set off further showers. not quite as warm on saturday, 16—17 is the high, coolerfurther north. for sunday it's looking as if sunday could be the best day for england and wales, a lot of dry weather around, some sunshine, sunshine and showers for scotland and northern ireland. on bank holiday monday, a band of rain moves through and then sunshine and showers. saturday, grey, cloudy, rainforsome. sunday, the best day of the weekend. for monday, it looks like it will turn more unsettled, followed by heavy rain through the morning, sunshine and showers, and the rest of the week will remain unsettled. ranks to low pressure. have a lovely night. that's the bbc news at ten. there's more analysis of the main stories in newsnight with kirsty wark. the news continues on bbc one with our
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colleagues across the nations and regions and the news where you are but from the ten o'clock team, good night. one of the last big electoral tests before a general election is over. will the results determine keir starmer�*s chances of entering downing street?
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dirty polls closed polls closed 30 minutes ago. nick and election guru john curtice are here to game the outcome. and a cabinet minister, a shadow cabinet minister and the deputy leader of the lib dems will all be spinning their narratives. also tonight, an exclusive newsnight investigation into misogny and a "boys�* culture" in police scotland. four female former employees, three of them longstanding officers, banding together as whistle—blowers, speak out. it was like a russian roulette. i either put the grievance in, lose my career, or i don't put the grievance in and i lose my career because i'm getting accused of throwing weapons, which didn't happen. ultimately it didn't just take my career. it took my mental health as well. and jan 6th, 2021, the day that rocked america to its foundations. be aware there are about 300 browed boys much _
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be aware there are about 300 browed boys much eastbound _ be aware there are about 300 browed boys much eastbound towards - be aware there are about 300 browed boys much eastbound towards the - boys much eastbound towards the capitah _ boys much eastbound towards the capitah -- — boys much eastbound towards the capitah -- it— boys much eastbound towards the capital. —— it proud _ boys much eastbound towards the capital. —— it proud boys. - the leader and three others of the far—right group the proud boys who stormed the capitol to try to stopjoe biden for donald trump are found guilty of seditious conspiracy. newsnight was there that day. we all have eyes and ears, and we witnessed january 6, whether you were there or watching on tv. you can say it was a peaceful protest but we're not stupid, we can see for ourselves. good evening. they will not be many nights before these before the next general election. in the next half an hour, polls have closed and will be one of the last crucial electoral test for all of the parties before voters decide who they want to form the next government. after weeks of heavy expectation management from all sides, those key results are imminent. 8000 council seats are in play and the last time those seats were fought in 2019, it marked a low point in the cycle for both the tories and labour. we will speak to polling expertjohn curtice in a moment, but first, nick is here. why
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is this so important for the next general election? it is one of the last big electoral test before the general election, which is expected to take place next year, and so you could be pretty sure that the parties will be going through in minute detail their performance on the ground to see whether that matches what you're seeing in the national opinion polls, which would say that keir starmer is heading pretty comfortably to downing street. four big things need to happen across great britain for keir starmer to achieve that goal. first, labour needs to be back in scotland. we can make an assessment on that, because there are no elections in scotland today. let's look at the big things that need to be happening in england. labour needs to win back the redwall, the a0 or so parliamentary seats in the that conservative in 2019. i hope that labour will do very well in one emblematic area, stoke—on—trent. they think their progress is much, much slower on teesside. the next big challenge, are the tories in trouble in the blue wall, the more
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affluent home county areas around london. the word from tory hq affluent home county areas around london. the word from tory h0 is that they are in for a shocker in theresa may's back yard, in windsor and maidenhead, and the final thing that needs to happen is that labour needs to be back in those places that have not got a name like redwall or blue wall. the places like the medway towns, the places that tony blair no difficulty in capturing, but they did have difficulties under ed miliband and jeremy corbyn. interestingly, keir starmerwas jeremy corbyn. interestingly, keir starmer was in the medway towns recently. an expectation management, what our party saying? labour are happy, saying they have good machines, a good use of data, and they are hoping for what they describe as decent gains in middle england. they are standing by their view that a00 net seat gains would be good. the criticism of that is, well, that is fine, you will be the largest party in local government. that is not a general election winning number. their view is that whenjohn puts out the projected national vote share tomorrow, they will be very happy if they are eight
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points ahead of the conservatives. i don't want to put words in john's don't want to put words injohn�*s mouth, but i think we will hear that they need to be ten points ahead. their view is that that does not take account of their remarkable progress they think they are making in scotland, which means that they don't need to do quite so well in the rest of great britain. for the conservatives, they are saying this is a tough night for the conservatives, having been in power for 13 years. they are talking about 1000 seat losses, and what they are trying to say is to put it on to labour and say, you need to sort of result that you had in the local elections in 1995. there were 2000 tory losses there. labour got a8% of the vote, and the reason why they say that is that if keir starmer gets the swing that tony blair got in 1997, he onlyjust squeaked in to downing street. then interestingly, the conservatives think that labour is going after some marquee winds that will look good but is not enough to actually be winning across the country. —— marquee wins. they are saying, what about
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nottinghamshire, sandwell and the mass woodlands, the tees valley? finally, the lib dems are saying because they did so well in the six last time, even stevens would be good. they think they may get 150 gains, and they will be very pleased with that. 0k, with that. ok, john, let's have your analysis on the back of that. well, you have already heard from nick i love a lot of discussion about the parties about expectations of seats gained and lost. i think we have to say that they will come with a very substantial health warning. not least because 5000 of the 8000 seats up for grabs yesterday were in the small shia district councils in england. many of these have elections for two three seats rather than just one. elections for two three seats rather thanjust one. so elections for two three seats rather than just one. so these elections are going to dominate the results in terms of gains and losses. the honest truth is also what which does not seats but votes, and that is
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suggesting texas to the projected national share. suggesting texas to the projected nationalshare. i suggesting texas to the projected national share. i will give you a couple of indications why one might think the labour party what to be in a double—digit lead on the projected national share. a double—digit lead on the projected nationalshare. if a double—digit lead on the projected national share. if you look at the national opinion polls at the moment, they basically say there was a 5% swing from conservatives to labour has compared with may 2019 and the national polls. if you actually look at the results of three exercises that have attempted to estimate how voters are going to vote in these local, by going and asking them, they actually pointed to a slightly higher swing to labour. if you bear in mind that when we have the projected national share in 2019, it was conservative 28, labour28. a 5% share in 2019, it was conservative 28, labour 28. a 5% swing takes you to labour ten point, the seven point swing takes you further. if labour are going to match the expectations of the opinion polls, they ought to be in double—digit territory or certainly very close to it.
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so it would ideally be north of ten? as nick said, you are talking about a tiny, tiny majority. yes, sure. there are separate issues about the fact that the electoral system might work to labour's disadvantage in a general election, particularly if they cannot make a comeback in scotland. but the truth is, the opinion poll that came out in scotland yesterday suggest that labour probably made at the moment make some progress. having said all this, of course, we should say that this, of course, we should say that this is a prediction. there is no guarantee if labour do match their current position in the opinion polls that that means the labour party will put it simply tells us that at the moment, they are indeed doing as well has the are in opinion polls and therefore might reasonably hope to win the next election will, of course, still have to voters to vote began in 18 months�* time. thanks very much indeed. —— to vote for them in 18 months�* time.
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i�*m joined now by the northern ireland secretary chris heaton harris. labour�*s shadow education secretary bridget phillipson is here, and also down the line is the lib dems�* deputy leader daisy cooper. thank you for being with us. i�*m sure you have all been out campaigning like crazy today. first of all, bridget, opinion polls have been very upbeat for six months, but if you don�*t get whatjohn curtice described as a double—digit lead, you are not likely to get into downing street. let�*s see what happens. we haven�*t had any results yet, but we are clear that we have run a really positive, strong campaign, and we are looking for those areas, those key battleground areas where we need to make progress ahead of the next general election. that�*s what matters most to us, more than those kinds of numbers around seats what some of that discussion around what comes to leads. it is those key areas we want to be making gains ahead of the general election, those key parliamentary seats, and whether thatis key parliamentary seats, and whether that is in places like swindon,
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darlington, where i have been campaigning, it has been clear to me during the campaign that actually, we have been talking about the issues that really matter to voters, for example on the cost of living, and where the conservatives have just had absolutely nothing to say. but it essentially quite clear that so close to a general election, which plays as local elections, potentially, we are talking about national issues, it is not really about local elections, but about getting your ducks in a row for general elections. of general elections. of course, some people will vote on local issues, but that has come up time and time again in the conversations i have had with voters in my own constituency in sunderland and right across the country come in places like gravesham, telford, hartlepool, all of those key kinds of seats we need to win back next time. we have been talking about what matters, the cost of living, cutting crime, cutting nhs waiting list, and when it comes to the conservatives, voters say that they are pretty fed up that they have basically got nothing to say on the keyissue basically got nothing to say on the key issue of the day. we have been clear on the action we would take, the different choices a labour government would be making right
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now, and there is a lot of dissatisfaction from the public about the fact the conservatives just don�*t seem to understand the pressures they are under right now. but the key thing is, if you don�*t get double digits, how are you going to spin it? because you will have to spin it. i�*m confident we will see progress on those key areas where we need to make gains come the next election, and i think we have one that would run a really strong campaign that will demonstrate that. labour needs a bigger swing, larger than the post—war record that tony blair got in 1997 to get into downing street. i would suggest that is probably quite a tall order, that level of swing? we know it is a big challenge. keir starmer has always been clear about that, they don�*t imagine we would have been having this conversation backin have been having this conversation back in 2019 when party suffered a terrible general election defeat keir starmer has turned things around. we are looking outwards to the country, we are making a positive case about the difference a labour would make, and positive case about the difference a labourwould make, and i think positive case about the difference a labour would make, and i think we will see a set of results coming out of these local elections that will
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demonstrate we are on the right path. if i can turn to you, chris, you are looking at a 1000 seat loss, and you deem that to be acceptable? no, i mean, we know we will have a tough _ no, i mean, we know we will have a tough night, — no, i mean, we know we will have a tough night, and we are going to lose very— tough night, and we are going to lose very good councillors up and down _ lose very good councillors up and down the — lose very good councillors up and down the country. we do recognise we are 13 _ down the country. we do recognise we are 13 years— down the country. we do recognise we are 13 years into government, and we have two. _ are 13 years into government, and we have two, and with rishi sunak as prime _ have two, and with rishi sunak as prime minister, our fortunes are changing — prime minister, our fortunes are changing in _ prime minister, our fortunes are changing in a positive direction, and we — changing in a positive direction, and we have been very positive on the doorstep, and actually, we have been _ the doorstep, and actually, we have been talking about how we supported people _ been talking about how we supported people across the country with the cost of _ people across the country with the cost of living crisis. putting money into peoples pockets for energy payments and the cost of living payments. but you admit you not see an immediate map? you just work. same echo what we�*re doing up and down the country among conservative councillors have been doing is working doorstep by doorstep, rode
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by road, talking people, demonstrating that conservative councils, conservative council areas, crime is lower, we fill more potholes, we actually do what people want us to do on the doorstep. the last time, in the 2019 levels, you lost 1269 seats. theresa may was at rock bottom. she was gone the next month. rishi sunak is still going backwards, so whose fault is this? the former prime minister you are serving so assiduously? is the legacy of the man you wanted to be prime minister, running operation save big dog forest, or is it liz truss, who made you northern ireland secretary? at his door delay this? we are a government that is in mid—term, and mid—term after 13 years. yes, you could say we had a bit of a blip, and we have been trying to make sure that we when peoples trust back, and we have been doing that by talking about enacting
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on people�*s priorities. we want to halve inflation, the economy, reduce debt, cut waiting lists, and of course, stop the boats. these are all things that people absolutely want to happen, and in local elections we talk about what is going on locally, and... you won�*t find a counsellor out there who is not talked about potholes in the course of the last few weeks. well, they might have talked about potholes and they may be very happy with what you are doing about this, but a poll says 25% of tory councillors are dissatisfied with their party leadership that is surely a problem, that whole power base, that local power base is dissatisfied with the leadership, then you have got work to do. when michael so much we know we have work to do, and like a say, this will be a tough set of results for us. we are in no doubt about that. you�*ve got one great professor. with you now. two others have suggested that figure of over 1000 seats lost. that
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is us losing fantastic councillors who have done wonderful things in their communities over the last two years. do you think you have let them down? it is very difficult to say we have let them down, but we want to make sure we want — let them down, but we want to make sure we want to _ let them down, but we want to make sure we want to fight _ let them down, but we want to make sure we want to fight for _ let them down, but we want to make sure we want to fight for all - let them down, but we want to make sure we want to fight for all the seats, — sure we want to fight for all the seats, and _ sure we want to fight for all the seats, and every vote we win, with a positive _ seats, and every vote we win, with a positive message, and deliver on what _ positive message, and deliver on what we — positive message, and deliver on what we say we will do. line _ what we say we will do. line iei _ what we say we will do. line let me turn to you, daisy cooper. you say the liberal democrats are on the cusp of claiming a major political upset. the trouble is, so often, these local election upsets don�*t translate to general elections. well i am standing here this evening, _ well i am standing here this evening, and— well i am standing here this evening, and i— well i am standing here this evening, and i am— well i am standing here this evening, and i am living - well i am standing here this i evening, and i am living proof well i am standing here this - evening, and i am living proof of the fact— evening, and i am living proof of the fact that _ evening, and i am living proof of the fact that in _ evening, and i am living proof of the fact that in 2019, _ evening, and i am living proof of the fact that in 2019, lib - evening, and i am living proof of the fact that in 2019, lib dems. evening, and i am living proof of. the fact that in 2019, lib dems took controt— the fact that in 2019, lib dems took control of— the fact that in 2019, lib dems took control of the — the fact that in 2019, lib dems took control of the council— the fact that in 2019, lib dems took control of the council here, - the fact that in 2019, lib dems took control of the council here, and - the fact that in 2019, lib dems took control of the council here, and a i control of the council here, and a few months— control of the council here, and a few months later, _ control of the council here, and a few months later, we _ control of the council here, and a few months later, we won - control of the council here, and a few months later, we won the . few months later, we won the constituency _ few months later, we won the constituency seat _ few months later, we won the constituency seat there - few months later, we won the constituency seat there are i few months later, we won the . constituency seat there are clear examples — constituency seat there are clear examples of _ constituency seat there are clear examples of where _ constituency seat there are clear examples of where that - constituency seat there are clear examples of where that has - constituency seat there are clear- examples of where that has happened, and what _ examples of where that has happened, and what i _ examples of where that has happened, and what i say— examples of where that has happened, and what i say is — examples of where that has happened, and what i say is that _ examples of where that has happened, and what i say is that this _ examples of where that has happened, and what i say is that this evening, - and what i say is that this evening, we are _ and what i say is that this evening, we are expecting _ and what i say is that this evening, we are expecting to _ and what i say is that this evening, we are expecting to have _ and what i say is that this evening, we are expecting to have a - and what i say is that this evening, we are expecting to have a good i we are expecting to have a good night _ we are expecting to have a good night we — we are expecting to have a good night we have _ we are expecting to have a good night. we have of— we are expecting to have a good night. we have of these - we are expecting to have a good night. we have of these they. we are expecting to have a goodi night. we have of these they had we are expecting to have a good . night. we have of these they had a winning _ night. we have of these they had a winning streak— night. we have of these they had a winning streak in— night. we have of these they had a winning streak in recent _ night. we have of these they had a winning streak in recent years- night. we have of these they had a winning streak in recent years withj winning streak in recent years with those _ winning streak in recent years with
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those three — winning streak in recent years with those three stunning _ winning streak in recent years withj those three stunning by—elections, and we _ those three stunning by—elections, and we hope — those three stunning by—elections, and we hope we _ those three stunning by—elections, and we hope we can— those three stunning by—elections, and we hope we can continue - those three stunning by—elections, and we hope we can continue thatl and we hope we can continue that trend _ and we hope we can continue that trend this — and we hope we can continue that trend this evening. _ trend this evening. what _ trend this evening. what you - trend this evening. what you are - trend this evening. - what you are campaigning trend this evening. _ what you are campaigning on sewage, mortgages and crime. well that really get you near to number ten? is that the big thing the liberal democrats need to campaign on? you know what, when i have been out knocking _ you know what, when i have been out knocking on— you know what, when i have been out knocking on doors, _ you know what, when i have been out knocking on doors, what _ you know what, when i have been out knocking on doors, what people - you know what, when i have been out knocking on doors, what people say. knocking on doors, what people say to me _ knocking on doors, what people say to me is, _ knocking on doors, what people say to me is, it— knocking on doors, what people say to me is, it is— knocking on doors, what people say to me is, it is everything. _ knocking on doors, what people say to me is, it is everything. they- knocking on doors, what people say to me is, it is everything. they sayl to me is, it is everything. they say it is the _ to me is, it is everything. they say it is the nhs, _ to me is, it is everything. they say it is the nhs, it— to me is, it is everything. they say it is the nhs, it is— to me is, it is everything. they say it is the nhs, it is the _ to me is, it is everything. they say it is the nhs, it is the cost - to me is, it is everything. they say it is the nhs, it is the cost of- it is the nhs, it is the cost of living, — it is the nhs, it is the cost of living, it _ it is the nhs, it is the cost of living, it is— it is the nhs, it is the cost of living, it is the _ it is the nhs, it is the cost of| living, it is the environmental vandalism _ living, it is the environmental vandalism of— living, it is the environmental vandalism of this _ living, it is the environmentall vandalism of this conservative government— vandalism of this conservative government which— vandalism of this conservative government which continues l vandalism of this conservative i government which continues to vandalism of this conservative - government which continues to allow water— government which continues to allow water companies _ government which continues to allow water companies to _ government which continues to allow water companies to pump _ government which continues to allow water companies to pump raw- government which continues to allowl water companies to pump raw sewage into our— water companies to pump raw sewage into our waterways _ water companies to pump raw sewage into our waterways. it _ water companies to pump raw sewage into our waterways. it is _ water companies to pump raw sewage into our waterways. it is mortgages, i into our waterways. it is mortgages, it is meant. — into our waterways. it is mortgages, it is meant. it— into our waterways. it is mortgages, it is meant. it is— into our waterways. it is mortgages, it is meant, it is bills, _ into our waterways. it is mortgages, it is meant, it is bills, it _ into our waterways. it is mortgages, it is meant, it is bills, it is _ it is meant, it is bills, it is everything _ it is meant, it is bills, it is everything because - it is meant, it is bills, it is everything because of- it is meant, it is bills, it is| everything because of that it is meant, it is bills, it is . everything because of that is it is meant, it is bills, it is - everything because of that is what people _ everything because of that is what people are — everything because of that is what people are saying _ everything because of that is what people are saying to _ everything because of that is what people are saying to me _ everything because of that is what people are saying to me on- everything because of that is what people are saying to me on the i people are saying to me on the doorstep — people are saying to me on the doorstep up _ people are saying to me on the doorstep up and _ people are saying to me on the doorstep up and down - people are saying to me on the doorstep up and down the - people are saying to me on the i doorstep up and down the country people are saying to me on the - doorstep up and down the country and film doorstep up and down the country and right here _ doorstep up and down the country and right here in _ doorstep up and down the country and right here in st— doorstep up and down the country and right here in st albans_ doorstep up and down the country and right here in st albans as _ doorstep up and down the country and right here in st albans as well. - right here in st albans as well. but as— right here in st albans as well. but as the _ right here in st albans as well. but as the person _ right here in st albans as well. but as the person who - right here in st albans as well. but as the person who ran - right here in st albans as well. but as the person who ran joel but as the person who ranjoe swinson does mike agamben, you must have joe swinson swinson does mike agamben, you must havejoe swinson refused to admit that she would not actually make it into downing street. she thought she would be swept in on the kind of remain tied. now, in a way, in a sense, you could save your time is back again, because people are starting to talk about brexit again and opinion polls, particularly among the young, are saying that
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actually, brexit was a big mistake, yet the liberal democrats have moved away from even talking about brexit. welcome i think the next general election— welcome i think the next general election is— welcome i think the next general election is going _ welcome i think the next general election is going to— welcome i think the next general election is going to be _ welcome i think the next general election is going to be a - welcome i think the next general. election is going to be a completely different— election is going to be a completely different to — election is going to be a completely different to that _ election is going to be a completely different to that last _ election is going to be a completely different to that last point - election is going to be a completely different to that last point that - election is going to be a completely different to that last point that we i different to that last point that we had. different to that last point that we had the — different to that last point that we had. the question _ different to that last point that we had. the question at _ different to that last point that we had. the question at all. - different to that last point that we had. the question at all. we - different to that last point that we had. the question at all. we set. different to that last point that we l had. the question at all. we set out very clearly — had. the question at all. we set out very clearly that _ had. the question at all. we set out very clearly that we _ had. the question at all. we set out very clearly that we want _ had. the question at all. we set out very clearly that we want pay - had. the question at all. we set out very clearly that we want pay to - had. the question at all. we set out very clearly that we want pay to be i very clearly that we want pay to be at the _ very clearly that we want pay to be at the heart — very clearly that we want pay to be at the heart of _ very clearly that we want pay to be at the heart of europe. _ very clearly that we want pay to be at the heart of europe. we - very clearly that we want pay to be at the heart of europe. we have i very clearly that we want pay to be at the heart of europe. we have ai at the heart of europe. we have a four stage — at the heart of europe. we have a four stage plan _ at the heart of europe. we have a four stage plan for— at the heart of europe. we have a four stage plan for rebuilding - at the heart of europe. we have a four stage plan for rebuilding our| four stage plan for rebuilding our relationship _ four stage plan for rebuilding our relationship with— four stage plan for rebuilding our relationship with the _ four stage plan for rebuilding our relationship with the eu. - four stage plan for rebuilding our relationship with the eu. there l four stage plan for rebuilding our. relationship with the eu. there are easy things — relationship with the eu. there are easy things the _ relationship with the eu. there are easy things the government - relationship with the eu. there are easy things the government could i relationship with the eu. there are . easy things the government could be doin- easy things the government could be doing right _ easy things the government could be doing right now— easy things the government could be doing right now to _ easy things the government could be doing right now to improve _ easy things the government could be doing right now to improve our- doing right now to improve our existing — doing right now to improve our existing trading _ doing right now to improve our existing trading relationship, l doing right now to improve our. existing trading relationship, and in the _ existing trading relationship, and in the longer— existing trading relationship, and in the longer term, _ existing trading relationship, and in the longer term, we _ existing trading relationship, and in the longer term, we want- existing trading relationship, and in the longer term, we want to l in the longer term, we want to improve — in the longer term, we want to improve the _ in the longer term, we want to improve the trade _ in the longer term, we want to improve the trade deals - in the longer term, we want to improve the trade deals we - in the longer term, we want to i improve the trade deals we have in the longer term, we want to - improve the trade deals we have in australia _ improve the trade deals we have in australia and — improve the trade deals we have in australia and new— improve the trade deals we have in australia and new zealand. - improve the trade deals we have in australia and new zealand. thesel australia and new zealand. these are~~~ _ are... let'sl are... l let's be quite clear. you are the let�*s be quite clear. you are the one party in a sense you could actually say, well, actually, these opinion polls now and where we stood before. maybe what we should do is stand apart from the others as they actually we want to reverse brexit. but you are not doing that, not taking? no it but you are not doing that, not taking? n—
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but you are not doing that, not takina? nu , _ , ., , taking? no it simply is not possible to reverse brexit. _ taking? no it simply is not possible to reverse brexit. there _ taking? no it simply is not possible to reverse brexit. there is - taking? no it simply is not possible to reverse brexit. there is no - taking? no it simply is not possible to reverse brexit. there is no way l to reverse brexit. there is no way that we _ to reverse brexit. there is no way that we can't— to reverse brexit. there is no way that we can't rejoin _ to reverse brexit. there is no way that we can't rejoin the _ to reverse brexit. there is no way that we can't rejoin the eu - to reverse brexit. there is no way that we can't rejoin the eu at- to reverse brexit. there is no way that we can't rejoin the eu at thei that we can't rejoin the eu at the same _ that we can't rejoin the eu at the same terms _ that we can't rejoin the eu at the same terms that _ that we can't rejoin the eu at the same terms that we _ that we can't rejoin the eu at the same terms that we had - that we can't rejoin the eu at the same terms that we had before, | that we can't rejoin the eu at the - same terms that we had before, and i think voters— same terms that we had before, and i think voters after— same terms that we had before, and i think voters after the _ same terms that we had before, and i think voters after the turmoil - same terms that we had before, and i think voters after the turmoil we - think voters after the turmoil we have _ think voters after the turmoil we have had — think voters after the turmoil we have had in— think voters after the turmoil we have had in the _ think voters after the turmoil we have had in the last _ think voters after the turmoil we have had in the last two - think voters after the turmoil we have had in the last two years i think voters after the turmoil we i have had in the last two years want political _ have had in the last two years want political parties _ have had in the last two years want political parties to _ have had in the last two years want political parties to be _ have had in the last two years want political parties to be looking - have had in the last two years want political parties to be looking to - political parties to be looking to the future, _ political parties to be looking to the future, not _ political parties to be looking to the future, not to _ political parties to be looking to the future, not to the _ political parties to be looking to the future, not to the past. - political parties to be looking to the future, not to the past. sol political parties to be looking to l the future, not to the past. so we have _ the future, not to the past. so we have set _ the future, not to the past. so we have set out — the future, not to the past. so we have set out a _ the future, not to the past. so we have set out a path _ the future, not to the past. so we have set out a path for— the future, not to the past. so we have set out a path for our- the future, not to the past. so we have set out a path for our party, | have set out a path for our party, set out _ have set out a path for our party, set out a — have set out a path for our party, set out a four— have set out a path for our party, set out a four stage _ have set out a path for our party, set out a four stage plan - have set out a path for our party, set out a four stage plan to - have set out a path for our party, i set out a four stage plan to rebuild that relationship— set out a four stage plan to rebuild that relationship into _ set out a four stage plan to rebuild that relationship into one - set out a four stage plan to rebuild that relationship into one day- set out a four stage plan to rebuild that relationship into one day endl that relationship into one day end ”p that relationship into one day end up track— that relationship into one day end up back in— that relationship into one day end up back in the— that relationship into one day end up back in the single _ that relationship into one day end up back in the single market- that relationship into one day end up back in the single market so. up back in the single market so anybody— up back in the single market so anybody who— up back in the single market so anybody who wants _ up back in the single market so anybody who wants to - up back in the single market so anybody who wants to support i up back in the single market so. anybody who wants to support the process _ anybody who wants to support the process should _ anybody who wants to support the process should definitely - anybody who wants to support the process should definitelyjoin - anybody who wants to support the process should definitelyjoin the i process should definitelyjoin the liberal— process should definitelyjoin the liberal democrats. _ process should definitelyjoin the liberal democrats. what - process should definitelyjoin the liberal democrats. what we're . liberal democrats. what we're hearing — liberal democrats. what we're hearing right _ liberal democrats. what we're hearing right now— liberal democrats. what we're hearing right now on _ liberal democrats. what we're hearing right now on the - liberal democrats. what we're - hearing right now on the doorsteps is that— hearing right now on the doorsteps is that people _ hearing right now on the doorsteps is that people cannot _ hearing right now on the doorsteps is that people cannot afford - hearing right now on the doorsteps is that people cannot afford their . is that people cannot afford their energy— is that people cannot afford their energy bills _ is that people cannot afford their energy bills or— is that people cannot afford their energy bills or mortgages. - is that people cannot afford their energy bills or mortgages. there is that people cannot afford their . energy bills or mortgages. there is a cost _ energy bills or mortgages. there is a cost of— energy bills or mortgages. there is a cost of living _ energy bills or mortgages. there is a cost of living crisis, _ energy bills or mortgages. there is a cost of living crisis, and - energy bills or mortgages. there is a cost of living crisis, and this - a cost of living crisis, and this government— a cost of living crisis, and this government does— a cost of living crisis, and this government does not - a cost of living crisis, and this government does not give - a cost of living crisis, and this - government does not give families help they— government does not give families help they need _ help they need. thank- help they need. thank you - help they need. thank you are l help they need. i thank you are very help they need. - thank you are very much. help they need. _ thank you are very much. wait tomorrow�*s excitement. women who worked as police officers in scotland, including an assistant deputy chief constable, a member of the firearms unit, and a former senior it support staff and i have spoken extensively to newsnight about what they described a "boys�* club" culture, rife with misogyny and sexism, in scotland�*s national police force police scotland. although they say they loved
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theirjobs, ultimately each of them decided they could not continue with the force. as a result of our investigation, the scottish labour leader anas sarwar today challenged scotland�*s first minister at first minister�*s questions, about the culture in police scotland. the number of other female former officers got in touch to say they too suffered misogyny and sexism, and then his majesty�*s inspector of constabulary in scotland contacted us to discuss the problem. that interview in a moment, but first the conversation i had in edinburgh with the four women that interview in a moment, but first the conversation i had in edinburgh with the four women at the heart of the story, who have come together as whistle—blowers to campaign for change. so, i had been in the police for about eight years when i decided to join the firearms unit. it was a huge challenge for any police officer, not just for a woman. but yeah, ijoined there. was it enjoyable?
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it was great, the training was amazing. the people i work with, they felt like family. it was a really great environment, initially. but the longer i was there, i started to see some horrific behaviour from my senior officer. and it went on for quite a while and injanuary 2018, i got an e—mailfrom him. it was just the line, the final crossing of the line. it was an e—mail that basically said that female officers shouldn�*t be working together because of our physical capabilities and to balance out testosterone. i put in a grievance. suing the police, it�*s not an easy thing to do. you don�*tjust put a grievance in because the minute you do that, you�*ve got a target on your back. but i didn�*t have a choice at that point because i�*d experienced such bad behaviour leading up to that e—mail. like what? i�*d been accused of throwing my utility belt with a loaded gun, which never happened. but because i was challenging some of the behaviours and the orders that were given out by management,
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because when you�*re carrying a firearm, like i was, i wanted to make sure i was crossing the ts, dotting the is, and there were things ijust wasn�*t comfortable with. but the idea that you come through all this training, you�*re a senior firearms officer, hugely respected for what you did and you had to essentially leave... yeah. yeah, that was really difficult. it was really hard. i was achieving, succeeding. i was at the best point in my career at the time. so it was like russian roulette. i either put in the grievance in and lose my career, or i don�*t put it in and i lose it because i get accused of throwing weapons, which didn�*t happen. so the whole grievance process for me was about protecting myself and ultimately it didn�*tjust take my career, it took my
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mental health as well. i�*m really sad, really sad, about that because i loved myjob. i really loved my job. what happened to you? well, i was a part—time worker. a single parent of a small child. so i put in a flexible working plan. i thenjoined my shift. i had 16 years' unblemished service at that point. but i knew what the culture was, that you had to accept it, get on with it, wait for it to finish. however, it got worse and worse. and how did you try and counter that, then? nothing, ijust kept my mouth shut. ijust went downhill very rapidly. i kept my mouth shut, because you cannot make a complaint. if you make a complaint, you're instantly targeted. nothing good comes from making a complaint about another police officer, particularly a supervisor. what impact was this having on you at the time? ijust felt a huge wave of hostility. you're so alone, you're so isolated.
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there's nowhere to turn. because i was told not to speak to my colleagues. that's what they do, they tell you not to speak to your colleagues. so instantly, you're ostracised. you�*re the only one in this group who hasn�*t actually talked about what happened to you before. tell me, because you are a civilian worker. yeah, i was support staff, in ict, in it, based in stirling. _ i i was with the central scotland | police and then police scotland. 20 years of service - and then worked with, mostly men in our location, in stirling, and it was one . individual who liked to pushl the boundaries when it came to what they call banter and jokes and things. . and would put women down, - would refer, he would refer to even female senior officers as _ "that wee lassie in grangemouth".
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and, there's something wrong - with the women in police scotland, and similar comments like that. he took against me, i suppose, because i was the only - female in the office. he told me that i was hormonal, or said to my colleagues that. i was hormonal and that women were only on this _ planet for one thing. and i was quite shocked. it was humiliating, in front - of colleagues that you've worked with for such a long time. is he still in the office? as far as i'm aware, yes. i had excellent reviews, appraisals every year, l right up until the point where i complained i about this person. then, after that, it all became, she is a problem, she's got - mental health issues, - she's just causing trouble. you were one of the most senior officers in the country. what was it like for women
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in particular in the force? what did you see and hear? i would have liked to have thought that over 20 years, things would have changed. they haven�*t changed. people are silenced, people are scared to speak out. but why, you�*ve got a union, there�*s the police federation. the police federation doesn�*t represent the number of women. there arejust over 30% of women in the service. there is not 30% women in the federation. not that necessarily we have lots of women who make a difference, if the culture isn�*t right. they represent both the complainer and the alleged offender, so they playjudge and jury. they decide who they believe and, you know, in stories that have been told to me, they believe the male perpetrator far more times than they believe the women. do you think that this is a more recent thing, since police scotland was set up? did it exist before in different constabularies? undoubtedly it�*s been going on for years, sadly. and i always hoped that
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things would improve. however, the stories that i�*m hearing from people seem to be more exacerbated now. it is one force with one channel to the top. whereas previously, with eight courses, you know, with eight forces, you know, and that was a political decision to move from eight to one, but you had lots of different chief constables, so in a sense, they held each other in check. whereas now, who holds the senior management in check? i ask that question. i�*m not clear who it would be. it�*s obviously cost you a lot emotionally, but what has it cost you to go through this with police scotland? i've spent £80,000 on legal fees. every penny i had. left me destitute. i'm close to 160,000, - if not over, that i've spent, taking police scotland, | to hold them to account forjustice. - justice is not cheap. it's not free. and what about compensation? so the compensation, -
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i got a lot of compensation, but that, that money went - towards paying my debt, my bills. i was financially destitute. four years i fought. them to get to court, and i nearly never got there. and they knew that. - the cost to me was the mental cost, really. i couldn�*t afford to take police scotland to a tribunal, even though my solicitor said i had a really good case. and police scotland were aware of that. they offered me a settlement before i resigned, but i turned it down because it had an nda attached to it. and you wouldn�*t sign an nda? i wouldn�*t sign an nda. you wouldn�*t sign an nda? no. so initially they wanted me to sign an nda, they wanted to give me a lump—sum and get me to sign an nda. but i would have been complicit in their behaviour if i'd done that. if these issues had been resolved when they should have been, - right early on and appropriate
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action had been taken, - apologies made and if necessary, i disciplinary action was taken early, i people wouldn't have lost careers, | they wouldn't have had poor mental health and importantly, | the public wouldn't have paid out this money. taking on an organisation with the power and resources of a national police force is never going to be anything other than life changing. but it�*s all for nothing, because you realise it was a sham. because what i think now is, my thoughts are... ijust don�*t think the truth means anything. the truth means nothing in policing now. we did invite police scotland to appear on the programme. they declined, but told us:
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and the scottish police federation said this: they strongly refute the suggestion that they have a history of siding with a male perpetrator more frequently than they do for women who have raised concerns. well, earlier this evening, well, earlierthis evening, i well, earlier this evening, i spoke to his majesty�*s chief inspector of constabulary for scotland, who is currently conducting an investigation into police scotland. i began by asking him how concerned he was about what those women had told us. one of the areas we are looking at was organisational culture. we started our inspection injanuary and we are looking at the wider aspects of organisation culture. we
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have spoken to some of these ladies and i am sure we will take the opportunity to speak to them again. so how many people have you been speaking to in the course of your investigation? latte speaking to in the course of your investigation?— speaking to in the course of your investiuation? . ., ., ., ' :: investigation? we have had over 150 resonses investigation? we have had over 150 responses through _ investigation? we have had over 150 responses through that _ investigation? we have had over 150 responses through that channel. - investigation? we have had over 150| responses through that channel. that is still open, so if you are a police scotland officer or member of staff and want to give us information, you can do that either with your name and address and we will come back to you, or anonymously and we willjust will come back to you, or anonymously and we will just take the information. we understand the concerns about speaking out and we want to give people the chance to be heard and whether to speak to us or not. 50 heard and whether to speak to us or not. ., ., . ., ., not. so right now, police scotland is an outlier. _ not. so right now, police scotland is an outlier. if— not. so right now, police scotland is an outlier. if officers _ not. so right now, police scotland is an outlier. if officers who - not. so right now, police scotland is an outlier. if officers who are i is an outlier. if officers who are being investigated for misconduct either retire orjust leave the force, the investigation falls. you put yourself on the line and then the officer being investigated walks away scot free. this is another
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example of how we are being underserved, that we are being failed. do you recognise that? absolutely. we need a review of police scotland�*s conduct matters about two and a half years ago. the police investigation review commission, ourselves and others have been working on 111 recommendations, of which 75 have been written off. we are trying to change that and the legislation to change that and the legislation to change that and the legislation to change that will come into force later this year.— change that will come into force later this year. police scotland say staff have recognised _ later this year. police scotland say staff have recognised a _ later this year. police scotland say staff have recognised a change - staff have recognised a change already, but a lot of people who have spoken to you clearly don�*t recognise a change and that in a way, police scotland are still failing them.— way, police scotland are still failin: them. , ., ., ., , failing them. every organisation is onl as failing them. every organisation is only as good _ failing them. every organisation is only as good as — failing them. every organisation is only as good as the _ failing them. every organisation is only as good as the people - failing them. every organisation is only as good as the people within | only as good as the people within it. some people will recognise the change and drive it proactively. others don�*t, and there is a huge
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number of people in police scotland that have to understand the new way of doing business, to understand the zero—tolerance that chief constables talk about. that takes time. we are currently going through a training programme for all people in promoted posts. that is 5500 people that have to be trained. that will take time. if women are still coming forward at the end of this year with stories of belittling sexism and misogyny about police scotland, will any thoughts of reform have failed? latte police scotland, will any thoughts of reform have failed?— police scotland, will any thoughts of reform have failed? we have to recounise of reform have failed? we have to recognise that _ of reform have failed? we have to recognise that misogyny _ of reform have failed? we have to recognise that misogyny is - of reform have failed? we have to recognise that misogyny is built i recognise that misogyny is built into the culture we live in. we only can draw police officers and staff from that culture, so we already end “p from that culture, so we already end up with people who are damaged goods when they start as police officers. making sure they abide by the values and ethics that are expected is what police scotland have to do, and that
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is a difficult challenge. i suspect we will see more reporting before we get to a better stage. not that i am wanting people to be abused orfeel intimidated or vulnerable. i want people to feel safe to call it out and i want their colleagues to call it out as well so that if they see it out as well so that if they see it happening in front of them, they are comfortable to call it out. thank you forjoining us. four members of the far right extremist group the proud boys, the men who led a violent attack on the capitol, and stormed the senate onjanuary 6th 2021 to try to overturnjoe biden�*s victory for donald trump have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy. the group�*s former leader enrique tarrio is among those who now face time for this rare charge which carries a sentence of up to 20 years in prison. the jury weren�*t able to agree on a fifth defendant, a former marine, and will continue deliberating on that and other charges. the violent events that unfolded that day were beamed live around the world.
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newsnight�*s david was there on the day and filmed the proud boys as they marched on the capitol. we all know what happened onjanuary 6th in washington — a violent mob intent on overturning the 2020 election result stormed the capitol. police radio: be advised - there are probably - about 300 proud boys. they are marching eastbound - towards the united states capitol. i was there and filmed 200 or 300 members of a group called the proud boys as they marched towards their target. on the day, the proud boys were tight—lipped. this is ethan nordean, one of the leaders of the proud boys. along with us army veteran joseph biggs in the checked shirt, and zach rehl, on the left in the cap, they�*ve been
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convicted for leading the capitol insurrection. look to your left and look to your right. i also convicted of seditious conspiracy is proud boys chairman enrique tarrio. he wasn�*t at the capitol that day, having been arrested on another charge two days previously. much of the evidence came from this man, another leader, charles donohoe, who pled guilty and cooperated with the authorities. but despite all the evidence shown in court, over 1000 people have now been prosecuted, january 6th is still very much contested territory in america. returning to the scene over two years on, almost nothing is agreed by all sides. january 6th has become emblematic of america�*s bitter political divide. i think there were a lot of unanswered questions for the public, and in terms of the story we are going to tell ourselves about what january 6th meant, still very unsettled. when i remember what happened here on that day, i don�*t really recall it as a sort of separate event — more as another episode of political violence in what was an extremely politically violent year in american history
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that i witnessed and reported on. in april of 2020, an armed mob stormed the michigan state house. among them, members of the wolverine watchmen militia group. i met them and others outside, armed to the teeth. this is pete musico, co—founder of the wolverine watchmen. you have to intimidate your government to keep them in check. if you look atjapan, china, you look at history — when you take away weapons, government has a chance to run you over. musico is now serving 12 years in prison for his part in a plot to kidnap the governor of michigan. so state houses across america were already being targeted well before the 2020 election, and there was detailed intelligence warning that violent disorder was being planned at the us capitol forjanuary 6th. so why weren�*t the authorities ready?
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they were unprepared, and there�*s really not good reason for it. there were plenty of people, certainly outside the government, researchers who were monitoring the planning that was going on in extremist social media circles and chat forums. sometimes there�*s a lot of talk, but no real mobilisation. but here, you saw the logistic. by the time i got here onjanuary the 6th with the proud boys, it was clear something had gone badly wrong with the police operation. not only had i not seen any police officers on the march up here, now it was clear the capitol hill police force was panicking. as the proud boys marched past, police were scrambling to put on their riot gear. meanwhile, at the capitol, low barriers and a tiny number of police — just one lone officer on the senate steps. but when it came to the january 6th committee, the democratic party—controlled congressional
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investigation, the lack of police investigation in the clear failure of intelligence was barely mentioned. why don�*t the democrats want to get to the truth? why don�*t they want to answer the fundamental question, which is, why wasn�*t there a better security posture on that day? the then chief of the capitol hill police, stephen sundar, says he did make a request for national guard help three days before, but this was turned down because of "optics". he said the then speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, who had previously criticised the use of what she called national guard storm troopers, she didn�*t want to see them deployed on capitol hill. the republican party refused to participate in the committee, dismissing it as a political cover—up and hatchetjob. political cover—up and hatchet job. it political cover—up and hatchetjob. it has permanently damaged the house and divided this country. and let�*s be honest, it is a smoke screen for democrats to push their radical agenda. democrats to push their radical agenda. democrats to push their radical a . enda. ., ., democrats to push their radical a . enda. ., ., democrats to push their radical aaenda. g. ., , agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings _ democrats to push their radical aaenda. g. ., , agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings _ agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took _ agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took place - agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took place is - agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took _ agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took place - agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took place is - agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took place is now i the 6th hearings took place is now renamed after nancy pelosi. decades agenda. the room where the january the 6th hearings took place is now i the 6th hearings took place is now renamed after nancy pelosi. decades
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ago, this is radical ago, this is where the house un—american activities committee grilled there is accused of communist subversion. the january six committee met for the last time in december. what has happened since is that the republicans now control the house of representatives, and that means they now control this furniture of congressional inquiry and they get to deploy it with their own political aims in mind. jim jordan is now the chair of the house judiciary committee. he has formed a new sub—committee of the weaponisation of the federal government. some on the right feel that other violent protests following the murder of george floyd were treated differently, more leniently, while the authorities focused exclusively on the right. latte focused exclusively on the right. we exect focused exclusively on the right. - expect to hear from americans who have been targeted by their government.

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