you're watching bbc news. the latest headlines will follow at the top of the hour after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. in the glossy tourist brochures, the seychelles, an archipelago of islands far off the coast of east africa, is portrayed as a little piece of paradise. but dig deeper and you find a very different reality — an island nation threatened by climate change, a population with the worst heroin addiction rate in the world

and a political culture tainted by allegations of corruption. well, my guest is seychelles president wavel ramkalawan. is this a story of paradise lost? president wavel ramkalawan, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. well, it's a pleasure to have you in the studio. you in the seychelles are known at the un as one of the sids nations. that's the small island developing states. do you think the world listens properly to the sids? i would say no.

in fact, as an african country, when the world talks about africa, they don't really pay attention to the sids. and yet, the sids of africa are the ones that are doing very well. when you look at the mo ibrahim index, for example, mauritius is first, seychelles is second, cape verde�*s third. so you have three sids that are doing extremely well, but the focus is on mainland africa. but isn't that, in a sense, part of the point? you are doing relatively well. i believe your per capita income is over $10,000, which in african terms is pretty remarkable, and you're very small. your population is hovering around 100,000. so in the end, how can you expect to have a meaningful voice on the world stage? well, even though we're doing well, the thing is,

because we are island states, we are most exposed to climate change, and therefore we are most vulnerable. so when we talk about states graduating from a developing country to a high income, and of course, once this happens, then we do not have access to concessionary funding. and this is why we, as sids, are fighting for the mvi to be introduced so that we can have access and keep on the development. well, you've touched upon something which i know for you is a very big deal. that is the fact that at the moment, the way the rules work, you're sort of too rich to qualify for the concessionary funding, which comes for those poor and developing nations which are being right now impacted by climate change. and we'll get to your proposals on funding in a minute. but before we do, are you in danger of exaggerating just how much the seychelles is going

to be damaged by climate change and sea level rise? you've claimed, i think, that 60 of the 115 islands in your archipelago could be lost. i don't know that most people think that's true, do they? well, it's because people don't really follow what's happening. you've got to understand what the seychelles is all about. we've got about 39 granitic islands. of course, mahe, being the main granitic island, goes up to 3,000 feet up, but the other islands are just a mere four metres, three metres above sea level. and already what we are seeing is, with the rise in the sea level and with greater surges, a lot of these islands are already changing shapes because the dune around the island is already being affected. therefore, these islands, similar to the maldives,

stand to simply disappear. and what about your coral reefs? because so much of your tourism is sort of marine—based tourism. you've got your wonderful turtles, you've got your coral reefs, which people enjoy. there was talk about how badly damaged they had already become. are they recovering in any way? well, yes, there is recovery. but at the same time, we are very concerned about the rise in sea temperature, because a couple of degrees�* rise will mean that those corals will be destroyed. and let us not forget that a couple of years back, over 90% of the corals were affected. and this is why, when the prince of monaco came to seychelles for an expedition, we agreed to cooperate with his institute, so that they could find the more resilient corals, so that later on, after they've

done all the experiments, they could come back and we will start the rehabilitation process of the coral reefs. for quite some time, you've come across as quite an angry and frustrated leader. in may 2022, you said, quite simply, "the rich world is failing on climate change. climate aid pledges by industrialised nations," you said, "are worthless." yes, i still believe that. yeah, but the thing is, you said that, and then world leaders gathered with their ministers at cop 27, i think it was, in cairo. yes. and they agreed a loss and damage fund for vulnerable nations. that was a breakthrough, was it not? well, a breakthrough, yes. i welcomed the announcement. but now we are waiting for the conditions. and already what i'm hearing is it will be for the poorer nations, meaning that because seychelles is among

those that have graduated, we will not have access to those funds. and this is not fair because we are directly affected. what the industrialised nations are doing to our planet, seychelles gets affected, which means that this graduation process is what i'm very angry about. and that's why you want this vulnerability index, which means the key factor is not so much how poor you are, butjust how vulnerable you are to rising sea levels. exactly. this is what we need to focus on. take, for example, covid. seychelles, in the middle of the ocean, and everything else, but covid was not a climate change event. covid was something else. and overnight, our tourism industry was affected by over 80%. look at our second industry, fisheries.

fish do not carry a seychelles passport. so these two examples of our two main industries clearly show the vulnerability of our situation, plus the climate change situation. for example, we do not have a plastic factory in seychelles. yet, on all our islands, on aldabra, some of our youth, some years back, when they took to do a clean—up, they collected over 20,000 tonnes. i appreciate the challenges you have, but with respect, mr president, you're not likely to get your way on getting this vulnerability index and making sure that you, with other developing economies, benefit from the climate change loss and damage cash that may be coming from the rich world. you won't get it if you, to put it bluntly, really annoy your fellow

emerging countries. you said recently, "the west prefers to give its money to countries that waste everything, where things just don't happen." that's a way of condemning so many other emerging economies, saying, "we're better than them." no, no, we're not saying we are better than them. but what we are saying is, "address all the issues." it's not because an island state like the seychelles is doing well that, suddenly, through this graduation process, again, you just cut off all the aid and you allow us to fend on ourselves. this will mean that the problem will come back. we're saying, "help those who are more vulnerable, but at the same time, help us to maintain the level of development, help us to continue helping the world." because here i can tell

you, what are we doing? seychelles is already protecting 32% of its sids aid. you have a major ocean marine conservancy protection programme. yes! but what is it for? it's not just for seychelles. 0ur emission is zero because whatever we emit, we clean up. we are 100% protecting our mangroves, 100% protecting our seagrass meadows, as i said, 32% of our ocean. what about your fish? cos 90%—plus of your domestic exports are actually fish, fish exports. so can you afford to stop fishing? no, we cannot. right now, we cannot. this is why, when we put all these elements in the basket, we're saying to the world, "pay heed to our call." one thing the world will not appreciate is blackmail. hang on, there is one aspect

of your strategy which does strike me as, frankly, a form of diplomatic blackmail. you are saying to the world, "we believe there are some substantial oil deposits offshore in seychelles." and you've signed an agreement with a canadian company — "we will give licences to explore 500 million barrels or more of oil unless you give us money now." that's a form of blackmail. no, no. what we are doing, we need to know what we have. this is normalfor a country. we're an independent state, so it's important for us to know what resources seychelles has. but would you... you're the president of the country — would you give the green light for a massive offshore oil exploration programme in seychelles? yes, but let us also look at what the west is doing. with respect, can you just answer that simple question? we have to know first, and maybe next time

when we have an interview, once we know, i'll be able to tell you. let us look at the world, and from there, we'll see where we go. you said not so long ago, "we're going to say to the rich nations, if you're ready to play ball with us, then we are not going to touch that oil." yes, why not? why not? but this is what the west is doing. with the ukraine war, suddenly the amount of oil that is being pumped, and yet we're talking about the transition from fossil fuel to renewables. but what is the west doing? so... and this is a point that the whole of africa is doing. the whole of africa is saying to the world, "yes, you want us to preserve the environment. but at the same time, the guy in west africa will not die hungry under his rosewood tree to conserve it. at some point, he will cut

down that rosewood tree unless the world gets together." i guess the difference between you and a country like nigeria is that you actually don't need to explore the oil because, more than anything else, you have an extraordinarily successful tourism industry and you have a very small population. yes. it's a very fine line that you're treading, though, isn't it, even on tourism? because you sell yourselves as a luxury destination with these pristine beaches, with the clear blue seas offshore. and yet the more you invest in expanding, for example, the number of hotels you have, the number of visitors per year you allow to enter seychelles, the more you risk the very qualities that you sell around the world. no, but again, this is where you've got to know the strategy. right now, there is a moratorium on the building of new hotels. the number of visitors has been clearly defined. well, i've seen different numbers. you had 334,000 tourists

in 2022, which is quite a lot for an island archipelago of less than 100,000 people. some of your officials have talked about getting to half a million visitors. no, we will not... we will never get to half a million because it will destroy. and this is why the strategy of our tourism industry is the high—class tourism, as you mentioned. we do not want backpackers in seychelles, we want the high—class tourism. and this is what actually saved our economy, because during the time of covid, those people could still come to seychelles in their private jets, and, therefore, put money in the economy. so this is the strategy and the moratorium will stay. and...some of the hotels that are being renovated right now are five—star institutions.

how do those rich and privileged people that you want as your high net—worth tourists react when they realise, if they realise, that seychelles has the highest heroin addiction rate per capita in the whole world? it is a problem. it is a problem for us as a country. it doesn't make you sound quite so attractive, does it? yes and no. but i'll tell you... well, i'm struggling to see the "yes" in that. i mean, it's not a good thing to be a country where10% of the local population is dependent on heroin. yes, sir. let me say, we have a big problem and my administration inherited this problem. but what are we doing? 0nly last week, we arrested an iranian dhow with one tonne of drugs — 600 kilos of heroin and 400 kilos of meth.

0nly yesterday, i got information that, in collaboration with the french, we arrested another iranian dhow with 600 kilos of heroin. yes, it is a problem and we are working for us to address this problem. you won office in late 2020, so here we are in the spring of 2023. you've had 2.5 years, roughly, to fix this and you haven't fixed it. no, no, we will not be able to fix it overnight.- what have you achieved in 2.5 years? because the director of your drugs prevention agency, marie—josette louise, she says there are not enough funds or people or appropriate infrastructure to tackle the drugs problem in seychelles. 0k. the strategy is simple. 0n the one hand, we are fighting the iranians who bring the heroin. and during those 2.5 years,

we've intercepted over five tonnes of heroin from entering the country. we are now working on the rehabilitation projects. a rehabilitation centre is in the planning and this will soon take off, and so we will have treatment for addicts. mr president, i think many people watching and listening to you willjust be fundamentally sort of shocked and deeply surprised that this island that so many of us think of in terms of idyllic images and where, as we've discussed, the per capita income level is relatively very high compared to african comparisons, why is it that so many of your people have fallen into this addiction? they've fallen because the previous government allowed the drugs to come into the country.

the fight against drugs was not serious. this administration is taking it seriously. and let me say, ok, you will come to victoria, you will come to the seychelles. 0k, we have ghettos where the drug trafficking is happening, but we are intervening. you say you're intervening and you've given me a few examples, but you do seem to vacillate between punishment and treatment. sometimes you emphasise a very tough stand on punishment and sentencing, and at other times you've got yourfree methadone programme that you're handing out to anybody who wants it. right now, what works best for you? but this is where, again, just like any other country, you've got to go after the traffickers. but we've also got to realise that addiction is a medical condition. when somebody is addicted, you cannot put that person in prison, you've got to treat that person. and the methadone programme is simply to allow those people

to be able to do a day's work, for example. and as they fight their addiction, hopefully, to remove them from the methadone so that they can live a normal life. and this is the dilemma which any country faces. we are both fighting the drug traffickers�* way. again, you asked me earlier about what we've done. in prison today, we've got some very big traffickers and there are some that are waiting to be tried. so, fight the big traffickers, take care of the addicts and, hopefully, we'll get the balance. i noted that you put much of the blame for the scale of the drugs problem on previous administrations. and you came to power after the other big party in seychelles that basically dominated politics for four decades, so you came in saying, "i'm a new broom and i'm going to clean up seychelles,

i'm going to get rid of corruption, i'm going to change our political culture," you said. do you think you've actually succeeded? cos there are many signs that you haven't. no, no, we cannot talk about having succeeded. it's a process. it's a process that will take some time. i know expectations are high, even from my own supporters, but it's only 2.5 years. and we're trying... i mean, these are the 12 labours of hercules that i'm involved in. well, yeah, but are you doing it fairly? for example, the key trial that many in your country are watching is of two individuals, a former economic adviser to long—serving president france—albert rene and the late former president's widow. now, those two are facing trial, it's going to begin very soon. and they are charged with misappropriating a very large amount of money donated to seychelles and money laundering. yes. now, they absolutely, categorically deny the charges

and their lawyers say that this is a politically motivated trial. i smile when i listen to that, because what they fail to tell the public is that it's under president faure, the former president, that help was obtained from the european union to get investigators to look into this matter. it was president faure who appointed new liquidators so that the funds could be investigated here in london, because the funds were from abu dhabi... sure, but right now, the case is being driven by the anti—corruption agencies. and also, the key figure is thejudge who, as i understand it, you appointed, just as you appointed the head of the anti—corruption agency. so, where is any separation of power? no, no, no, you've got it wrong. you've got it wrong.

as president, i receive recommendations from the constitutional appointments authority. you make the decisions. i listen to what they tell me. i do not dictate to them. and so far, what i've done is to respect their independence when they make the recommendations. and you're talking about the chiefjustice, and let me tell you, the chiefjustice was the attorney general when i filed a petition in court after the 2015 elections, and he stood against me. he stood against me. and this is just to show you that it's not about standing against me, it's not about... i depended on what the constitutional appointments authority put before me. and my policy has been seychelles is for all her children. and, therefore, i'm not after your political affiliation,

your political beliefs, but if you can serve the country, and the only thing that i ask of him is just this. ok, so if you are serious about this corruption clean—up, are you serious about ending the seychelles�* status as one of the leading offshore tax havens in the world? you were cited in those paradise papers as one of the biggest tax havens for tax avoidance. it seems that continues. seychelles is working very closely with the 0ecd and with all the other organisations. and so far, i can again tell you, when i came into office in october 2020, seychelles was on the blacklist. but what did we do? straight away, we started working on that, and today, seychelles is on the grey list. well, it depends. some countries have you on a list, others do not. but here�*s how you�*re being sold.

there is one company, offshore—protection.com, which sells a seychelles option for offshoring money. it says this on its website — it says, "if you are looking for a tax haven, with a solid secrecy policy, seychelles may be the perfect choice." that�*s the reality. this is very good propaganda for that company. but the reality is due diligence is done on anybody who wants to invest in seychelles through the offshore, and there are a lot of people who are turned away, and seychelles is on the right track to achieving the status, the white list status. this, i can tell you. we have to end there, but president wavel ramkalawan, i thank you so much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you very much, and all the very best. thanks.

hello there. it�*s quite tricky trying to plan your day ahead with the weather at the moment. take, for example, wednesday morning, glorious start in st albans in hertfordshire. but by the middle of the afternoon there were plenty of shower clouds, and many skies overhead look like this, quite threatening at times. in fact, if we take a look at the radar from wednesday, there were quite a widespread bunch of showers that moved in from the west, and some of these turned quite heavy with rumbles of thunder mixed in there as well. in fact, we�*re not even halfway through the month of may and some counties across england have already seen above average rainfall. the exception, highland scotland, where there�*s not been that much rain so far this month. but low pressure still dominates the story as we go through thursday.

that means further showers to come. high pressure is trying to build in from the west and it will do so for the first half of the weekend at least. so, for thursday we�*ll start off with some low cloud around, but largely fine and dry. but it won�*t be long before the sunshine comes through and we start to see some warmth building and showers turn quite widespread into the afternoon once again. couple that with some low grey cloud temperatures in the far north and east of scotland, disappointing 10—13 degrees. highest values, perhaps around 17 or 18 degrees. dodge the showers. keep the sun. it�*ll feel relatively pleasant. now, high pressure is building in from the west. but to complicate the story, this little weather front here is going to produce more cloud coming in off the north sea with a cool northeasterly breeze. and we�*ll see some showers running down through lincolnshire, east anglia, further south and west through the day. so west will be best for the sunshine and the warmth. on friday, we could see temperatures peaking at around 18,

possibly 19 degrees. but where that low gray cloud continues to roll in off the north sea, only highs of around 1a celsius. the high pressure then moves in for the start of the weekend. not a bad start, but already frontal systems pushing in from the northwest will start to bring a change from sunday onwards. so saturday, not a bad day and feeling pleasantly warm. but as we go through into next week, the showers are set to return and it will be just a little bit cooler than it should be for this time of year.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i�*m mariko 0i. the headlines.. at least eight people are killed during violence in pakistan, sparked by a corruption case against the former prime minister imran khan the conflict between israel and palestininain factions rages on. palestinian militants fire hundreds of rockets into israel, following a wave of israeli air strikes in gaza. in the uk , the publisher of the mirror newspaper has apologised to prince harry for unlawful information gathering, during a trial over alleged phone—hacking. the leader of the welsh national party plaid cymru, adam price, has quit after a report found

evidence of widespread bullying, misoygny and