good morning. ithink good morning. i think you good morning. ithink you have good morning. i think you have an interest in this one. a lot of people have an interest in trains. trans pennine has lost the right to services after months of cancellations and customer complaints. it would put into the hands of the operator of last resort. fortoo hands of the operator of last resort. for too many of us, taking the train has been a journey of last resort. this is effectively temporary nationalisation. the government says it is temporary. should it be? getting the train home

has the new national lottery many of you. the transport secretary mark harper says his decision to bring services under government control will not be a silver bullet, but he hopes it will improve customer experience. this means that for rail operators will effectively be nationalised. trans— pennine, northern, south—eastern and n and er. around one in six trans— pen i and services were cancelled in march. this is the right direction of travel? is the uk train network coming off the rails? is this enough to make your we want to know what you think. rail services: to make your we want to know what you think. railservices: end to make your we want to know what you think. rail services: end of the line? here is the news. train services run

by transpennine express will be brought under government control. the department for transport says the company's contract will not be renewed at the end of the month due to consumers cancellations. the bank of england is widely expected to raise interest rates later as it tries to reduce inflation. it's predicted they will go up by a quarter of a percentage point by five 5%. donald trump says he is not worried about losing voters after a civil court found him liable of sexually abusing and defaming a journalist. he told cnn that his poll numbers have since gone up. and the leader of plaid cymru has announced he is stepping downjust days after a report found there was a culture of bullying and sexual harassment in the party. in his resignation letter, adam price says he no longer have the united support of his colleagues.

yes, transpennine express, and there are other lines you might want to talk about, other companies involved in our wonderful dream of travelling to our country and getting a seat and having a train that turns up on time and gets us to where we want to go on time. it is not too much to ask. transpennine operates across the north of england and into scotland and has been cancelling trains on a daily basis for months, disrupting lives. in march, one in six services were cancelled, the worst in the uk. the boss said sorry. the response of a lot of travellers and passengers was unrepeatable. it is the government has a full intention to return it to the private sector. should it, is the private sector. should it, is the point? do you want to go back to the point? do you want to go back to the future? remember british rail? it became an absolute joke. is it a case of be careful what you wish for as well? in defence of transpennine express, there has been a pandemic, high sickness rates, a backlog of

driver training, high sickness rates, a backlog of drivertraining, caused high sickness rates, a backlog of driver training, caused by covid, passenger numbers down. there have been the strikes. the government on the website this morning point the finger at the train drivers�* union as life or their working practices. going into this. what do you think? theories philip hay, transport journalist. theories philip hay, transport journalist-— theories philip hay, transport journalist.- what - theories philip hay, transport journalist.- what is - theories philip hay, transport i journalist.- what is your journalist. hellor! what is your reaction to _ journalist. hellor! what is your reaction to this? _ journalist. hellor! what is your reaction to this? i'm _ journalist. hellor! what is your reaction to this? i'm not - journalist. hellor! what is yourl reaction to this? i'm not entirely surrised reaction to this? i'm not entirely surprised that _ reaction to this? i'm not entirely surprised that transpennine - reaction to this? i'm not entirely - surprised that transpennine express are losing the contract in favour of government control. i think it has been coming for a while, but i must agree with one of the lines of the dft press release when it said this will not be a silver bullet. this will not be a silver bullet. this will not be a silver bullet. this will not solve the problems overnight. so passengers can sadly look forward to more chaos and more cancellations as the company slowly climbs out of the pit it finds itself in. pa, climbs out of the pit it finds itself in. �* , , , ., climbs out of the pit it finds itselfin. �* , , , ., , itself in. a pit, yes, a very good expression- _ itself in. a pit, yes, a very good expression. for _ itself in. a pit, yes, a very good expression. for many _ itself in. a pit, yes, a very good expression. for many of - itself in. a pit, yes, a very good expression. for many of our - expression. for many of our listeners and viewers, it has been

so frustrating, all of this. why has it gone so badly wrong for transpennine express? i think essentially, the company transpennine express and the drivers�* union aslef have handsomely fallen out with each other. i don�*t detect any goodwill at from the drivers�* side of the house, and without that goodwill, transpennine express has really struggled to run a service. it has struggled to convince the union to allow drivers to work overtime. this is because even more of a training backlog, and for passengers standing on the platform, it has turned the timetable into a lottery. they need to fix these relationships and slowly rebuild the service so that passengers can rely on it. a lot of politics here as well. the government on its website made the point that this has been a drag on the northern economy and that must stop.

absolutely, and the government is right to that that sort of thing. but it is the same government that has been closely controlling how transpennine express can spend money. it is the government that sits behind the current pay dispute, it is the government that sits behind cutting costs and cutting services, so it is rather rich of that same government to theent claim that same government to theent claim that everything should be rosy in the future. but what this does do, if you take first group, out of it, as the owning company, the government now directly runs transpennine express, so all the problems will land on the ministers�* desks. thank you for now. craig in scarborough, nicola in huddersfield, stephen manchester. what is your reaction, to this, craig? i stephen manchester. what is your reaction, to this, craig?— reaction, to this, craig? ithink should have — reaction, to this, craig? ithink should have happened - reaction, to this, craig? ithink should have happened i - reaction, to this, craig? ithink should have happened i think. reaction, to this, craig? ithink- should have happened i think trans- should have happened i think trans— pennine should have lost the contract a while back, because on

sunday, i have been for a train at three to get to york at six o�*clock. the train at half past three and half past four was cancelled two days on the trot. the train service was brilliant until they change the timetable on the 21st of the 12th of december 2021, and then itjust went shocking. they were cancelling trains left, right and centre. i was getting to europe for the 0702 back to scarborough, and it were cancelled. —— york. i was waiting for the 0802, fair dos, it is only an hour, but i was getting home and then getting it back up to do it all again with no sleep.— again with no sleep. exactly. was there — again with no sleep. exactly. was there a _ again with no sleep. exactly. was there a solidarity - again with no sleep. exactly. was there a solidarity of- was there a solidarity of frustration on the platform at times like that? everybody kind of cursing? like that? everybody kind of cursin: ? , , ._

like that? everybody kind of cursin: ? , , :: :: cursing? oh, yes. one day, the 0702 was cancelled. _ cursing? oh, yes. one day, the 0702 was cancelled, the _ cursing? oh, yes. one day, the 0702 was cancelled, the train _ cursing? oh, yes. one day, the 0702 was cancelled, the train came - cursing? oh, yes. one day, the 0702 was cancelled, the train came into i was cancelled, the train came into the platform from scarborough, and went back to scarborough empty. there was either a staff shortage, which, fair dos, that happens, but i�*m sure they can... there are things they could have done to do it, sort it out. one day a train broke down, the line was closed for the majority of the day because they can get the train to move. in the end, they ended up getting an old engine from the sidings in york, taking it to pick it up, and dragged it back to either scarborough or back to york to clear the line. it is common sense to have a spare engine sat in scarborough or sat at york that could go out like thunderbirds like they do in other routes. but trans— pen ijust didn�*t seem to want to do that. it routes. but trans- pen i 'ust didn't seem to want to do that]— seem to want to do that. it has become a _ seem to want to do that. it has become a bit — seem to want to do that. it has become a bit of _ seem to want to do that. it has become a bit of a _ seem to want to do that. it has become a bit of a joke - seem to want to do that. it has become a bit of a joke then. i seem to want to do that. it hasj become a bit of a joke then. -- become a bit of a joke then. —— trans— pen i. yes, it got worse when the new

timetable came out. the amount of timetable came out. the amount of time i have waited for timetable came out. the amount of time i have waite— time i have waited for the train in york, time i have waited for the train in york. you — time i have waited for the train in york. you can _ time i have waited for the train in york, you can tell _ time i have waited for the train in york, you can tell which - time i have waited for the train in york, you can tell which one - time i have waited for the train in york, you can tell which one is i time i have waited for the train in | york, you can tell which one is the transpennine one, because it is cancelled, cancelled cancelled, due to short notice. short notice, due to short notice. short notice, due to timetable. what is that all about? ~ ., , ., to timetable. what is that all about? ~ . , ., ., to timetable. what is that all about? . , ., ., about? what is that all about? and when ou about? what is that all about? and when you look— about? what is that all about? and when you look at _ about? what is that all about? and when you look at the _ about? what is that all about? and when you look at the board - about? what is that all about? and when you look at the board at i about? what is that all about? and when you look at the board at the i when you look at the board at the station, you see that, cancelled, cancelled, cancelled, cancelled, it�*s deflating, isn�*t it? it is, especially after a 12 hour night shift. {iii it is, especially after a 12 hour night shift-— it is, especially after a 12 hour night shift._ and i it is, especially after a 12 hour i night shift._ and when you night shift. of course. and when you are t in: night shift. of course. and when you are trying to — night shift. of course. and when you are trying to go _ night shift. of course. and when you are trying to go to — night shift. of course. and when you are trying to go to work— night shift. of course. and when you are trying to go to work to _ night shift. of course. and when you are trying to go to work to do - night shift. of course. and when you are trying to go to work to do a i night shift. of course. and when you are trying to go to work to do a 12 i are trying to go to work to do a 12 hour night shift. you think, i have got to rush across york now to get to work on time. i hate rushing. do you know what i mean? i want to get to work relaxed, calm, ready to go. of course you do. the allah—macro of course you do. the allah—macro have a cup of coffee, but no, i�*ve got to rush, i�*m legging it across york to get there on time. got to rush, i'm legging it across york to get there on time.- got to rush, i'm legging it across york to get there on time. when you ut in a york to get there on time. when you put in a compensation _ york to get there on time. when you put in a compensation claim - york to get there on time. when you put in a compensation claim they i york to get there on time. when you | put in a compensation claim they mug you off. i was paying £3 a week for

my weekly ticket and got £2.60 back or £2.99 back for cancellation of the train. that is just wrong. show your customers a bit of respect, you won�*t have a problem with your customers slating you. because you are not providing a good service or anything like that. then there were times when transpennine staff were striking on sundays, do not travel unless necessary. i was taking my daughter home on a saturday instead of sunday because they were advising you not to travel. so i was missing out on time with my daughter. affecting your family life, your work life. you have said so much, you have kind of encapsulated it. you are kind of the perfect caller, encapsulating the frustration and everything that has gone wrong. more callers coming up in a second, but i wonder, matthew colton, managing director of transpennine express, in

january, he said to the bbc that the operator had a recovery plan to do better. that hasn�*t worked out. he also said sorry. if you were in a room with him now, what would you say to him?— say to him? sorry is not good enou:h. say to him? sorry is not good enough- i— say to him? sorry is not good enough. i had _ say to him? sorry is not good enough. i had to _ say to him? sorry is not good enough. i had to look - say to him? sorry is not good enough. i had to look for i say to him? sorry is not good enough. i had to look for a i say to him? sorry is not good i enough. i had to look for a newjob because i couldn�*t trust transpennine to get to work on time, i couldn�*t trust them to get me home so i could have something to eat, a cup of coffee and go to bed and get up cup of coffee and go to bed and get up and do it all again. because i didn�*t trust them, i was getting up at half past 12 to ensure that the trains were running on time. if the half past three train wasn�*t running, i would go for the half to train. if that wasn�*t running, i would go for the half past one train. i would get 3—4 hours�* sleep and then go into do a 12 hour nature. i was shattered. by the end of the week, i absolutely shattered, and then i am like, why am i doing

this key wreck the money was good, but i could not get there. messing up people�*s life. hello, steve in manchester. what about you? yes, i have a similar story. steve in manchester. what about you? yes, i have a similarstory. i yes, i have a similar story. i travel— yes, i have a similar story. i travel from _ yes, i have a similar story. i travel from manchester to stevenage travel from manchester to steve nage on the _ travel from manchester to stevenage on the same journey every week. i think_ on the same journey every week. i think it _ on the same journey every week. i think it is — on the same journey every week. i think it is probably twice this year that the _ think it is probably twice this year that the trains have been off either one way— that the trains have been off either one way or— that the trains have been off either one way or the other way and it is the impact — one way or the other way and it is the impact it has on my work. yesterday, _ the impact it has on my work. yesterday, i set off on the train from _ yesterday, i set off on the train from piccadilly and changed in doncaster, and it was cancelled at short— doncaster, and it was cancelled at short notice and the next train ended — short notice and the next train ended up— short notice and the next train ended up getting me to work an hour and a _ ended up getting me to work an hour and a half_ ended up getting me to work an hour and a half late. i have an outstanding employer, but it is a running — outstanding employer, but it is a running joke in the office that we are late — running joke in the office that we are late because of transpennine express — are late because of transpennine express. the impact coming home is on my— express. the impact coming home is on my personal and life. i'm constantly trying to find people to pick the _ constantly trying to find people to pick the kids up from rugby or foothall— pick the kids up from rugby or football so they are not left in the

park somewhere. the impact, the stress _ park somewhere. the impact, the stress and — park somewhere. the impact, the stress and work life, family life, is unbelievable. the journey i have, it used _ is unbelievable. the journey i have, it used to _ is unbelievable. the journey i have, it used to he — is unbelievable. the journey i have, it used to be operating to travel from _ it used to be operating to travel from ancaster to manchester on transpennine express and then changed — transpennine express and then changed to l and e are in doncaster to go— changed to l and e are in doncaster to go down— changed to l and e are in doncaster to go down to stevenage, and it could _ to go down to stevenage, and it could not— to go down to stevenage, and it could not be a greater contrast. —— lner~ _ could not be a greater contrast. —— lner~ that — could not be a greater contrast. —— lner. that always runs on time, one or two— lner. that always runs on time, one or two times — lner. that always runs on time, one or two times it has been delayed, and the _ or two times it has been delayed, and the staff have been helpful in supporting you. transpennine express is a short— supporting you. transpennine express is a short notice cancellation like the other— is a short notice cancellation like the other caller said. you cannot rely on _ the other caller said. you cannot rely on them to get anywhere. many times— rely on them to get anywhere. many times i_ rely on them to get anywhere. many times i have come home and arrived at piccadilly— times i have come home and arrived at piccadilly at half past 12 at night — at piccadilly at half past 12 at night which is not where you want to be night which is not where you want to he at _ night which is not where you want to he at that— night which is not where you want to be at that time. the impact on work life and _ be at that time. the impact on work life and personal life isjust huge, so i life and personal life isjust huge, so i really— life and personal life isjust huge, so i really welcome this change. i think— so i really welcome this change. i think it _ so i really welcome this change. i think it is — so i really welcome this change. i think it is massively frustrating when _ think it is massively frustrating when i — think it is massively frustrating when i see money being returned to shareholders when the service is 'ust shareholders when the service is just absolutely appalling. i think it's disgusting. linebacker just absolutely appalling. i think it's disgusting. linebacker katie, i will be with _ it's disgusting. linebacker katie, i will be with you, _ it's disgusting. linebacker katie, i will be with you, at _ it's disgusting. linebacker katie, i will be with you, at euston - it's disgusting. linebacker katie, i | will be with you, at euston station.

let me put that to a transport journalist, philip hay. the disruption to peoples lives is awful, the stress it is causing the stress and strain of attempting to take the train. why do we get a bit of praise therefore lner? because they are also being run by an operator of last resort, philip. has that made a difference to their efficiency? i haven�*t detected a huge difference at lner. what i have seen is a trickle of cancellations from them because they lack train crews. they can�*t find drivers and guards for some of their services, so you get this similar trickle of cancellations. they are a lot better than transpennine express, but some of these problems are across the whole rail industry. but transpennine express is certainly the top of the heap for poor services and cancellations. and what difference will this make,

and operator of last resort? there is an appetite, isn�*t there? may be the memories of british rail have faded and only people on a certain generation remember. but there is an appetite for nationalisation. that seems to be the silver bullet in many people�*s eyes if you look at polling. what do you think about that? what do you think, steve? i think any changes welcome. looking at the _ i think any changes welcome. looking at the different operators, i travel all over— at the different operators, i travel all over the country with work, and transpennine express is by far the worst— transpennine express is by far the worst operator, so something has to happen, _ worst operator, so something has to happen, something has to change. this is— happen, something has to change. this is the — happen, something has to change. this is the worst it's ever been, so anything _ this is the worst it's ever been, so anything is — this is the worst it's ever been, so anything is welcome in my eyes. katie _ anything is welcome in my eyes. katie austen, that euston station, hello, a transport correspondent. good morning. hello, a transport correspondent. good morning-— hello, a transport correspondent. good morning. give us the nuts and bolts of the — good morning. give us the nuts and bolts of the story. _ good morning. give us the nuts and bolts of the story. how— good morning. give us the nuts and bolts of the story. how did - good morning. give us the nuts and bolts of the story. how did we i good morning. give us the nuts and bolts of the story. how did we get i bolts of the story. how did we get here? we had to wait a long time. how did we arrive here again we have arrived. go on. we

how did we arrive here again we have arrived- go on-_ arrived. go on. we have been speaking _ arrived. go on. we have been speaking to — arrived. go on. we have been speaking to passengers, i arrived. go on. we have been speaking to passengers, and| arrived. go on. we have been i speaking to passengers, and you arrived. go on. we have been - speaking to passengers, and you get the sense from the callers you have just had on about what they have been experiencing over the last year or so, then we just hear tales of misery and destruction, not knowing if you�*re train is going to run, and transpennine has particularly stood out for cancelling trains the night before, and that basically means the train you thought was going to run is not going to run. the numbers so to speakfor is not going to run. the numbers so to speak for themselves. earlier this year, transpennine was cancelling nearly a quarter of its services. that has come down and the company says it has had a recovery plan to try and improve things, but thatis plan to try and improve things, but that is from quite a bad base, if you like. although they have made some improvements, clearly the government has not viewed that as adequate. the department for transport being clear today that as transpennine express has said it self in the past, there are some factors that have been maybe not in the company�*s control, such as a backlog of driver training, and of course, there have been these

industrial relations issues as well, which have been really quite severe and not being able to have drivers doing rest day working. the department for transport also clear that its decision to bring the operator under government control doesn�*t mean it�*s a quick fix. it�*s not a silver bullet. so i think the interesting question is, what will this mean for passengers? no interruption to services, by the way. things should continue as normal. but will there be an improvement? i�*m not sure there�*s a clear way of huge improvement over night, but the government has said it�*s a clear chance to reset relations between the company and its passengers and its staff, so passengers will definitely be looking out for improvements. first group, which owns transpennine, has said it is disappointed this morning. said it is disappointed this morning-— said it is disappointed this morninu. , . , ,, morning. yes, temporary special measures. _ morning. yes, temporary special measures. if— morning. yes, temporary special measures, if you _ morning. yes, temporary special measures, if you like. _ morning. yes, temporary special measures, if you like. what i morning. yes, temporary specialj measures, if you like. what does that mean and what happens after temporary finishes?— temporary finishes? welcome interestingly, _ temporary finishes? welcome

interestingly, the _ temporary finishes? welcome j interestingly, the government temporary finishes? welcome i interestingly, the government is in control of the rail industry at the moment. so it already had a large degree of control over operators like transpennine because of the contracts these rail operators moved into during the pandemic, effectively nationalising it does not change loads, but the government has been clear in its communications this morning it use this as a temporary measure, so the contract, it insists, will eventually go back into the private sector. so the government has knock a message this morning is that this is a temporary measure and it will not stay nationalised forever. but we already have three large operators that are under the operator of last resort, northern, south—eastern and lner, which you were just talking about, so they are still nationalised and have not gone back into private sector control. so it�*s an interesting time on the railway, and the question for passengers, i think, is really well this herald any big or quick improvement. thank

ou for any big or quick improvement. thank you for now. — any big or quick improvement. thank you for now, katie. _ any big or quick improvement. thank you for now, katie. worth _ any big or quick improvement. thank you for now, katie. worth saying that that row about rest day working, mick whelan, the aslef general secretary, working, mick whelan, the aslef generalsecretary, he working, mick whelan, the aslef general secretary, he has hit back at all of this and said the company had 12 months to train new drivers and he rejected the notion drivers should hold any blame, and members are being asked to work rest days when they shouldn�*t be. what about the passengers, brian and yorke, nicola in huddersfield to mecca we have had some strong stuff so far. that morning, nicola. tell us about your train experience. 0r lack of! your train experience. or lack of!— your train experience. i or lack of!_ go your train experience. - or lack of!_ go on. your train experience. _ or lack of!_ go on. lack or lack of! or lack of! go on. lack of in this area. _ i of in this area. iam— of in this area. lam not of in this area. i am not a commuter, so my of in this — i am not a commuter, so my heart actually— i am not a commuter, so my heart actually goes out more to those people — actually goes out more to those people than myself, but the evidence: evident frustration being the correct — evidence: evident frustration being the correct word that i sufferjust using _ the correct word that i sufferjust using the — the correct word that i sufferjust using the train may be a couple of times— using the train may be a couple of times a _ using the train may be a couple of times a month, but there is personal things— times a month, but there is personal things that _ times a month, but there is personal things that i — times a month, but there is personal things that i want to do, to improve my social— things that i want to do, to improve my social life. i don't have a car, and _ my social life. i don't have a car, and it's— my social life. i don't have a car, and it's exactly what you said

yourself _ and it's exactly what you said yourself. you get to the station, cancellation, cancellation, no explanation, nobody actually there when _ explanation, nobody actually there when there are staff standing around pretty— when there are staff standing around pretty much not doing a great deal, saying _ pretty much not doing a great deal, saying we _ pretty much not doing a great deal, saying we apologise for this. you can't blame _ saying we apologise for this. you can't blame them _ saying we apologise for this. ym. can't blame them either, they are can�*t blame them either, they are doing their best of those people. they are, it is not their fault, doing their best of those people. they are, it is not theirfault, but they are, it is not their fault, but if they— they are, it is not their fault, but if they are — they are, it is not their fault, but if they are the face of the company, they could _ if they are the face of the company, they could at least say sorry that you are — they could at least say sorry that you are not — they could at least say sorry that you are not going to be able to get your train, — you are not going to be able to get yourtrain, and i you are not going to be able to get your train, and i totally get you as well that— your train, and i totally get you as well that it — your train, and i totally get you as well that it is not the government taking _ well that it is not the government taking over, it's not going to be a quick— taking over, it's not going to be a quick fbc — taking over, it's not going to be a quick fix. my only thought on that is, particularly with that being raised — is, particularly with that being raised is, _ is, particularly with that being raised is, if temporarily at the service — raised is, if temporarily at the service is— raised is, if temporarily at the service is at least slowing down, but there — service is at least slowing down, but there is no expectation there will be _ but there is no expectation there will be a — but there is no expectation there will be a train every hour, because there _ will be a train every hour, because there isn't— will be a train every hour, because there isn't any way. they tend to cancel— there isn't any way. they tend to cancel them, there isn't any way. they tend to cancelthem, so there isn't any way. they tend to cancel them, so you have to wait at the half— cancel them, so you have to wait at the half an— cancel them, so you have to wait at the half an hour or an hour. so from my personal— the half an hour or an hour. so from my personal perspective, that would be a short—term thing to ease frustration in non—rush—hour times. but i _ frustration in non—rush—hour times.

but i live _ frustration in non—rush—hour times. but i live down south, using oxford, reading. _ but i live down south, using oxford, reading, and london trains well over 30 years. _ reading, and london trains well over 30 years, and never had anything like this — 30 years, and never had anything like this it — 30 years, and never had anything like this. it has got to the extent with me — like this. it has got to the extent with me where i like the environment, i don't want or need a car appear, — environment, i don't want or need a carappear, but i'm environment, i don't want or need a car appear, but i'm actually going to have _ car appear, but i'm actually going to have to— car appear, but i'm actually going to have to buy a car because i need to have to buy a car because i need to get— to have to buy a car because i need to get down— to have to buy a car because i need to get down south at least two or three _ to get down south at least two or three times a month and i rely on it. i three times a month and i rely on it i don't — three times a month and i rely on it. i don't want to be driving three hours _ it. i don't want to be driving three hours down — it. i don't want to be driving three hours down the motorway, but if i do, hours down the motorway, but if i do. i_ hours down the motorway, but if i do. i know i— hours down the motorway, but if i do, i know i will get there and i know— do, i know i will get there and i know i— do, i know i will get there and i know i can _ do, i know i will get there and i know i can filled the commitments i have got— know i can filled the commitments i have got down there. —— i can fill the commitments. so it is completely frustrating _ the commitments. so it is completely frustrating. they have been given time _ frustrating. they have been given time to— frustrating. they have been given time to try— frustrating. they have been given time to try and make some improvements, but that has not happened. and the work ethic seems to be, _ happened. and the work ethic seems to be, you _ happened. and the work ethic seems to be, you know, and i am not apportioning blame here or looking into people's lives who worked for the railway, but itjust seems to be an acceptable ethic that it is ok

that we — an acceptable ethic that it is ok that we don't turn up with the trains — that we don't turn up with the trains. that is ok, and it is not. it trains. that is ok, and it is not. it is _ trains. that is ok, and it is not. it isjust— trains. that is ok, and it is not. it isjust something that trains. that is ok, and it is not. it is just something that the trains. that is ok, and it is not. it isjust something that the train people _ it isjust something that the train people find acceptable and it just isn't, _ people find acceptable and it just isn't, and — people find acceptable and it just isn't, and it has to change. that— isn't, and it has to change. that is— isn't, and it has to change. that is a _ isn't, and it has to change. that is a very articulate response from you, i mean, the fact that you have to buy a car, but the highlight of your core has been when you went... he sighs.. that sums up how many people feel about this! you are being driven into a horseless carriage because of this. absolutely. and it works the other way. absolutely. and it works the other way my— absolutely. and it works the other way. my 91—year—old father wants to travel _ way. my 91—year—old father wants to travel appear, way. my 91—year—old father wants to travelappear, can't way. my 91—year—old father wants to travel appear, can't drive, and way. my 91—year—old father wants to travelappear, can't drive, and is capable — travelappear, can't drive, and is capable of— travelappear, can't drive, and is capable of getting on the train, but as a family. — capable of getting on the train, but as a family, we can't now allow him to do— as a family, we can't now allow him to do that, — as a family, we can't now allow him to do that, which is a great impact on his— to do that, which is a great impact on his life. — to do that, which is a great impact on his life, because we can't have the risk— on his life, because we can't have the risk of— on his life, because we can't have the risk of him being stuck at a station — the risk of him being stuck at a station for— the risk of him being stuck at a station for goodness knows how long in the _ station for goodness knows how long in the cold _ station for goodness knows how long in the cold or even if it is too

hot — in the cold or even if it is too hot there _ in the cold or even if it is too hot. there is lots of impacts. i know — hot. there is lots of impacts. i know the — hot. there is lots of impacts. i know the majority of it is on the working — know the majority of it is on the working people, and as i say, i can't _ working people, and as i say, i can't even _ working people, and as i say, i can't even believe how they cope with it _ can't even believe how they cope with it. but it impacts everybody's lives _ with it. but it impacts everybody's lives. young, old, for pleasure, for work, _ lives. young, old, for pleasure, for work. and — lives. young, old, for pleasure, for work. and it— lives. young, old, for pleasure, for work. and it is— lives. young, old, for pleasure, for work, and it isjust unique, it seems — work, and it isjust unique, it seems to— work, and it isjust unique, it seems to me, to this particular train _ seems to me, to this particular train line _ train line. yes. ok. let's see train line. _ yes. ok. let's see what train tine. — yes. ok. let's see what amanda yes. 0k. let�*s see what amanda reckons in stockport. you will have used this train line, amanda? yes, because i am in that part of the country. i have experienced the nightmare of travelling as a commuter from where i nightmare of travelling as a commuterfrom where i used nightmare of travelling as a commuter from where i used to live in south manchester into manchester central. i used to be really good at getting up and just completely not having the train service until about an hour later sometimes, because of cancellations, and ifound that really frustrating. more recently, i

would much prefer to work remotely, because of the expense of tickets. even weekly saver tickets are expensive when you total it up for the whole month. it can be around £160 or more to travel, and given that food inflation is around 19.2%, that food inflation is around 19.2%, thatis that food inflation is around 19.2%, that is a huge chunk when you have got increased bills to pay, but coming back to the trains themselves people may hope that nationalisation will work, but as i was saying to the person i was speaking to before i came on the line, nationalisation may not actually be the result that people think is going to work. i know people have said it is not a silver bullet, but it goes back to the same thing about the way the country is run. and particularly over the last 13 years. i don�*t want

to go down a political route too much but it is just about planning and oversight and publishing results, so that when i talk about planning, i mean because everything is a franchise service on the network, it is not a joined up service. and, you know, when things are privatised originally, it was an even more fractured service than it is now, but they had to agree that some things need to be more national, like the infrastructure to maintain companies that run on the tracks and everything to do with the maintenance of the tracks. so that was like a back step. but really, it�*s about planning a workforce, and companies don�*t seem to be very good at that, even before the pandemic. and it is too easyjust to rely and weekend working. going back to nationalisation, there is an impetus for that, if you look

at the polling. people kind of think anything would be better than this. maybe that is the mentality. you don�*t think there would be the answer key? we should have the current system and change it and make it better and have morejoined up make it better and have morejoined up thinking and more accountability, you think you absolutely, yeah, because it is... we you think you absolutely, yeah, because it is. . ._ you think you absolutely, yeah, because it is... we are a situation where, because it is... we are a situation where. in — because it is... we are a situation where. in some — because it is... we are a situation where, in some ways, _ because it is... we are a situation where, in some ways, we - because it is... we are a situation where, in some ways, we are i because it is... we are a situation | where, in some ways, we are very close to an election, so the government doesn�*t need to be that proactive, because there�*s a kind of horizon that they are working to, and they can do as badly as they want, and be unaccountable, which is why, you know, we have had protracted negotiations with the nurses, we have still got negotiations with junior doctors going on. we also know the legal system is and has been in backlog. contracts with the pharmacies. even dentists still need to be upgraded. all matters which we have discussed

on this programme. i want to bring in peter, because he mentions nationalisation —— you mention nationalisation. people of a certain generation will think british rail. absolutely, yes. good morning, peter. ~ ., absolutely, yes. good morning, peter. ~ . ~' absolutely, yes. good morning, peter. ~ . ,, . . peter. what you think about that? to tell ou peter. what you think about that? to tell you the _ peter. what you think about that? to tell you the truth, _ peter. what you think about that? to tell you the truth, i _ peter. what you think about that? to tell you the truth, i remember| to tell you the truth, i remember when _ to tell you the truth, i remember when the — to tell you the truth, i remember when the trains were nationalised, and i_ when the trains were nationalised, and i am _ when the trains were nationalised, and i am not going to pretend that it was— and i am not going to pretend that it was all— and i am not going to pretend that it was all honey back then, because it was all honey back then, because it rcatty— it was all honey back then, because it really wasn't. but one thing i do know— it really wasn't. but one thing i do know is— it really wasn't. but one thing i do know is that at least they ran, which — know is that at least they ran, which was _ know is that at least they ran, which was a little bit better than what _ which was a little bit better than what they do at the moment. i'm not going _ what they do at the moment. i'm not going to _ what they do at the moment. i'm not going to pretend that ours is as bad as the _ going to pretend that ours is as bad as the transpennine, because i live down _ as the transpennine, because i live down south, — as the transpennine, because i live down south, but as i mentioned, it isjust_ down south, but as i mentioned, it isjust as _ down south, but as i mentioned, it isjust as cheap down south, but as i mentioned, it is just as cheap for me to go down south, but as i mentioned, it isjust as cheap for me to go by plane _ isjust as cheap for me to go by plane to — isjust as cheap for me to go by plane to scotland as it is by rail. and a _ plane to scotland as it is by rail. and a lot — plane to scotland as it is by rail. and a lot quicker. and of course, if they really— and a lot quicker. and of course, if they really want to keep all the cars off—

they really want to keep all the cars off the road, then make the train _ cars off the road, then make the train fares— cars off the road, then make the train fares cheaper. that is my opinion, — train fares cheaper. that is my opinion, anyway. it _ opinion, anyway. it is _ opinion, anyway. it is your opinion and the opinion of a lot of people, philip hay, transportjournalist. there is a perception, and i know people say if you are canny about this you can get advanced and cheap tickets, of course, and it isjust on advanced and cheap tickets, of course, and it is just on the day that it course, and it is just on the day thatitis course, and it is just on the day that it is expensive and some people can�*t get their head round that. is it relatively more expensive here than in other parts of europe, for example? it is a lot more expensive. sorry, guys, i will bring to fill it a second, what what does everyone think about that? i heard another voice in the background stop was that nicola or amanda? i voice in the background stop was that nicola or amanda?- that nicola or amanda? i have travelled in _ that nicola or amanda? i have travelled in france, _ that nicola or amanda? i have travelled in france, just i that nicola or amanda? i have travelled in france, just on - travelled in france, just on holidays, _ travelled in france, just on holidays, and _ travelled in france, just on holidays, and i— travelled in france, just on holidays, and i was - travelled in france, just on- holidays, and i was staggered. new kind of— holidays, and i was staggered. new kind of expect — holidays, and i was staggered. new kind of expect things _ holidays, and i was staggered. new kind of expect things would - holidays, and i was staggered. new kind of expect things would be - holidays, and i was staggered. new kind of expect things would be likel kind of expect things would be like they are _ kind of expect things would be like they are here — kind of expect things would be like they are here but _ kind of expect things would be like they are here but it _ kind of expect things would be like they are here but it was _ kind of expect things would be like they are here but it was so - kind of expect things would be like they are here but it was so much l they are here but it was so much cheaper— they are here but it was so much cheaper and _ they are here but it was so much cheaper and the _ they are here but it was so much cheaper and the trains— they are here but it was so much cheaper and the trains were - cheaper and the trains were wonderfut _ cheaper and the trains were wonderful. i— cheaper and the trains were wonderful. i have _ cheaper and the trains were wonderful. i have travelledl cheaper and the trains were i wonderful. i have travelled a cheaper and the trains were - wonderful. i have travelled a lot from _ wonderful. i have travelled a lot from paris — wonderful. i have travelled a lot from paris to— wonderful. i have travelled a lot from paris to sort _ wonderful. i have travelled a lot from paris to sort of— wonderful. i have travelled a lot from paris to sort of the - wonderful. i have travelled a lot| from paris to sort of the suburbs

beyond. — from paris to sort of the suburbs beyond. tiny— from paris to sort of the suburbs beyond, tiny villages, _ from paris to sort of the suburbs beyond, tiny villages, and - from paris to sort of the suburbs beyond, tiny villages, and just . from paris to sort of the suburbs i beyond, tiny villages, and just the standard _ beyond, tiny villages, and just the standard of— beyond, tiny villages, and just the standard of things _ beyond, tiny villages, and just the standard of things being _ beyond, tiny villages, and just the standard of things being on - beyond, tiny villages, and just the standard of things being on time, | standard of things being on time, the trains— standard of things being on time, the trains being _ standard of things being on time, the trains being large, _ the trains being large, double—decker, - the trains being large, double—decker, and i the trains being large, i double—decker, and still the trains being large, - double—decker, and still very the trains being large, _ double—decker, and still very cheap try comparison _ double—decker, and still very cheap by comparison with _ double—decker, and still very cheap by comparison with the _ double—decker, and still very cheap by comparison with the uk, - double—decker, and still very cheap by comparison with the uk, i- double—decker, and still very cheap by comparison with the uk, ijust . by comparison with the uk, ijust found _ by comparison with the uk, ijust found it _ by comparison with the uk, ijust found it amazing. _ by comparison with the uk, ijust found it amazing. the _ by comparison with the uk, ijustl found it amazing. the difference, you know — found it amazing. the difference, ou know. �* found it amazing. the difference, ou know. . , ., found it amazing. the difference, ou know. . ., . , . found it amazing. the difference, ouknow. ., . you know. and you got a seat as well. you know. and you got a seat as well- yes. _ you know. and you got a seat as well- yes. yes. _ you know. and you got a seat as well. yes, yes, mostly. - you know. and you got a seat as well. yes, yes, mostly. what. you know. and you got a seat as well. yes, yes, mostly. what a l well. yes, yes, mostly. what a thin , well. yes, yes, mostly. what a thing, amazing. _ well. yes, yes, mostly. what a thing, amazing. travelling - well. yes, yes, mostly. what a i thing, amazing. travelling outside of paris, it was _ thing, amazing. travelling outside of paris, it was definitely - thing, amazing. travelling outside of paris, it was definitely spaciousi of paris, it was definitely spacious and comfortable. _ of paris, it was definitely spacious and comfortable. in— of paris, it was definitely spacious and comfortable. in paris, - of paris, it was definitely spacious and comfortable. in paris, it - of paris, it was definitely spacious and comfortable. in paris, it is - of paris, it was definitely spacious and comfortable. in paris, it is a i and comfortable. in paris, it is a bit like _ and comfortable. in paris, it is a bit like travelling _ and comfortable. in paris, it is a bit like travelling in _ and comfortable. in paris, it is a bit like travelling in any- and comfortable. in paris, it is a bit like travelling in any city. - and comfortable. in paris, it is a| bit like travelling in any city. you know. _ bit like travelling in any city. you know. peopte _ bit like travelling in any city. you know. peopte at _ bit like travelling in any city. you know, people at peak _ bit like travelling in any city. you know, people at peak hours - bit like travelling in any city. you | know, people at peak hours need bit like travelling in any city. you i know, people at peak hours need to -et know, people at peak hours need to get to— know, people at peak hours need to get to where — know, people at peak hours need to get to where they _ know, people at peak hours need to get to where they need _ know, people at peak hours need to get to where they need to _ know, people at peak hours need to get to where they need to get - know, people at peak hours need to get to where they need to get to. i get to where they need to get to. but it— get to where they need to get to. but it was— get to where they need to get to. but it was still— get to where they need to get to. but it was still amazing. - get to where they need to get to. but it was still amazing. it - get to where they need to get to. but it was still amazing. it was i get to where they need to get to. i but it was still amazing. it was not expensive — but it was still amazing. it was not expensive compared _ but it was still amazing. it was not expensive compared to _ but it was still amazing. it was not expensive compared to the - but it was still amazing. it was not expensive compared to the uk. i expensive compared to the uk. phitip _ expensive compared to the uk. phitip hay. _ expensive compared to the uk. phitip hay. tet _ expensive compared to the uk. philip hay, let me _ expensive compared to the uk. philip hay, let me take - expensive compared to the uk. philip hay, let me take it- expensive compared to the uk. philip hay, let me take it to - expensive compared to the uk. i philip hay, let me take it to you. transportjournalist. philip. lots transport journalist. philip. lots of transportjournalist. philip. lots of people say it is very expensive in this country, far too pricey. what do you say? it in this country, far too pricey. what do you say?— in this country, far too pricey. what do you say? it can be very expensive- _ what do you say? it can be very expensive- i— what do you say? it can be very expensive. i have _ what do you say? it can be very expensive. i have tried - what do you say? it can be veryl expensive. i have tried travelling around europe. it can also be very

expensive there, but there are cheaper tickets here, there are cheaper tickets here, there are cheaper tickets here, there are cheaper tickets in europe. there are governments in europe who are keen to see people switch to greener transport and are actively encouraging that transfer onto rail. we have seen recent speeches from the transport secretary here where we sought cars, cars, cars and more cars. we saw an announcement yesterday about getting longer lorries onto the roads. we should be switching freight on to railways from roads. ifear the current government is exhibiting all the classic signs that roads are best, and the railways can go and mould in the corner. that's a real shame. i wish they would change the policy and start promoting railways, make them easier to travel on, cheaper, and make it a better experience to get around the country.

but the point is that people like me, but the point is that people like me. i_ but the point is that people like me. i want— but the point is that people like me. i want to _ but the point is that people like me, i want to use _ but the point is that people like me, i want to use the _ but the point is that people like me, i want to use the railway. i| me, i want to use the railway. i have _ me, i want to use the railway. i have got— me, i want to use the railway. i have got to _ me, i want to use the railway. i have got to the _ me, i want to use the railway. i have got to the stage _ me, i want to use the railway. i have got to the stage in - me, i want to use the railway. i have got to the stage in life - me, i want to use the railway. i. have got to the stage in life where i would _ have got to the stage in life where i would much _ have got to the stage in life where i would much rather— have got to the stage in life where i would much rather not _ have got to the stage in life where i would much rather not drive - have got to the stage in life where i would much rather not drive my. have got to the stage in life where l i would much rather not drive my car for two _ i would much rather not drive my car for two or— i would much rather not drive my car for two or three _ i would much rather not drive my car for two or three hours _ i would much rather not drive my car for two or three hours and _ i would much rather not drive my car for two or three hours and i- i would much rather not drive my car for two or three hours and i find - for two or three hours and i find mysetf— for two or three hours and i find myself completely— for two or three hours and i find myself completely unable - for two or three hours and i find myself completely unable to - for two or three hours and i find l myself completely unable to rely for two or three hours and i find - myself completely unable to rely on the service — myself completely unable to rely on the service appear _ myself completely unable to rely on the service appear with _ myself completely unable to rely on the service appear with trans - myself completely unable to rely on the service appear with trans panicl the service appear with trans panic in that— the service appear with trans panic in that we — the service appear with trans panic in that we are _ the service appear with trans panic in that we are talking _ the service appear with trans panic in that we are talking about - the service appear with trans panic in that we are talking about —— - the service appear with trans panic| in that we are talking about —— with trans- _ in that we are talking about —— with trans- pennine _ in that we are talking about —— with trans— pennine. i— in that we are talking about —— with trans— pennine. i want _ in that we are talking about —— with trans— pennine. i want a _ in that we are talking about —— with trans— pennine. i want a greener. trans— pennine. i want a greener economy. _ trans— pennine. i want a greener economy. we — trans— pennine. i want a greener economy. we att— trans— pennine. i want a greener economy, we all do. _ trans— pennine. i want a greener economy, we all do. i— trans— pennine. i want a greener economy, we all do. i don't - trans— pennine. i want a greener| economy, we all do. i don't think anybody— economy, we all do. i don't think anybody is — economy, we all do. i don't think anybody is burying _ economy, we all do. i don't think anybody is burying their- economy, we all do. i don't think anybody is burying their head - economy, we all do. i don't think anybody is burying their head in. economy, we all do. i don't think. anybody is burying their head in the sand about — anybody is burying their head in the sand about that. _ anybody is burying their head in the sand about that. but _ anybody is burying their head in the sand about that. but at _ anybody is burying their head in the sand about that. but at the - anybody is burying their head in the i sand about that. but at the moment, it's inrpossibte — sand about that. but at the moment, it's inrpossibte. my— sand about that. but at the moment, it's impossible. my son _ sand about that. but at the moment, it's impossible. my son had - sand about that. but at the moment, it's impossible. my son had an - it's impossible. my son had an interview— it's impossible. my son had an interview appear. _ it's impossible. my son had an interview appear. he - it's impossible. my son had an interview appear. he recentlyl it's impossible. my son had an - interview appear. he recently moved up interview appear. he recently moved up here _ interview appear. he recently moved up here as _ interview appear. he recently moved up here as wet _ interview appear. he recently moved up here as well. two— interview appear. he recently moved up here as well. two trains - interview appear. he recently moved up here as well. two trains were - up here as well. two trains were cancelled. — up here as well. two trains were cancelled. so _ up here as well. two trains were cancelled, so he _ up here as well. two trains were cancelled, so he missed - up here as well. two trains were cancelled, so he missed his - cancelled, so he missed his interview _ cancelled, so he missed his interview. it's _ cancelled, so he missed his interview. it's a _ cancelled, so he missed his interview. it's a bad - cancelled, so he missed his . interview. it's a bad reflection cancelled, so he missed his - interview. it's a bad reflection on him. _ interview. it's a bad reflection on him. it's— interview. it's a bad reflection on him. it's not— interview. it's a bad reflection on him, it's not his _ interview. it's a bad reflection on him, it's not his fault. _ interview. it's a bad reflection on him, it's not his fault. next- interview. it's a bad reflection on| him, it's not his fault. next time, he is _ him, it's not his fault. next time, he is going — him, it's not his fault. next time, he is going to _ him, it's not his fault. next time, he is going to have _ him, it's not his fault. next time, he is going to have to _ him, it's not his fault. next time, he is going to have to say, - him, it's not his fault. next time, he is going to have to say, i- him, it's not his fault. next time, he is going to have to say, i have| he is going to have to say, i have -ot he is going to have to say, i have got to— he is going to have to say, i have got to get— he is going to have to say, i have got to get to _ he is going to have to say, i have got to get to the _ he is going to have to say, i have got to get to the station - he is going to have to say, i have got to get to the station two - he is going to have to say, i have. got to get to the station two hours before _ got to get to the station two hours before i_ got to get to the station two hours before i think— got to get to the station two hours before i think i'm _ got to get to the station two hours before i think i'm going _ got to get to the station two hours before i think i'm going to- got to get to the station two hours before i think i'm going to get- got to get to the station two hours before i think i'm going to get my| before i think i'm going to get my chain? _ before i think i'm going to get my chain? that — before i think i'm going to get my chain? that is _ before i think i'm going to get my chain? that is not _ before i think i'm going to get my chain? that is not conducive - before i think i'm going to get my chain? that is not conducive to i before i think i'm going to get myi chain? that is not conducive to us using _ chain? that is not conducive to us using the — chain? that is not conducive to us using the rail— chain? that is not conducive to us using the rail system, _ chain? that is not conducive to us using the rail system, is - chain? that is not conducive to us using the rail system, is it? -

chain? that is not conducive to us using the rail system, is it?- using the rail system, is it? steve from manchester _ using the rail system, is it? steve from manchester here. _ using the rail system, is it? steve from manchester here. it - using the rail system, is it? steve from manchester here. it comes l using the rail system, is it?— from manchester here. it comes back to the _ from manchester here. it comes back to the point— from manchester here. it comes back to the point before about how it is disconnected. i have to change trains— disconnected. i have to change trains between different operators. if one _ trains between different operators. if one is _ trains between different operators. if one is late, the other doesn't wait _ if one is late, the other doesn't wait for— if one is late, the other doesn't wait for those kind of things. the entire _ wait for those kind of things. the entire system is breaking down. maybe _ entire system is breaking down. maybe nationalisation is the answer. maybe _ maybe nationalisation is the answer. maybe that gives a service level across _ maybe that gives a service level across the uk. we talked about money iioii'i across the uk. we talked about money going to _ across the uk. we talked about money going to shareholders. surely it cannot— going to shareholders. surely it cannot help that money is being distributed to shareholders when these _ distributed to shareholders when these companies are not performing. if that _ these companies are not performing. if that money was invested in the infrastructure, maybe we would have a system _ infrastructure, maybe we would have a system like the ones in europe. | a system like the ones in europe. i think a system like the ones in europe. think the a system like the ones in europe. i think the idea of going from nationalisation to private was that it would be better, but of course, in my opinion it has turned out to be the opposite. as a young lad, we used to get something called a run

around which we could take around most of the south coast and only cost a few pounds. but now, if you just want to goad the next two or three stations, you are paying a fortune. and if you go in your car, then you are adding more to the environment, which we don't want to do. ~ . environment, which we don't want to do. . . , , , , do. we have hit the buffers in this half hour. we _ do. we have hit the buffers in this half hour. we want _ do. we have hit the buffers in this half hour. we want to _ do. we have hit the buffers in this half hour. we want to hear- do. we have hit the buffers in this half hour. we want to hear from l do. we have hit the buffers in this i half hour. we want to hear from you. passengers are not happy campers. 08085 909693. rail services, passengers are not happy campers. 08085 909693. railservices, end passengers are not happy campers. 08085 909693. rail services, end of the line? get in touch. the transport secretary has confirmed that train services runs by transpennine express are to be

brought under government control. mark harper says the operator's contract isn't being renewed at the end of this month because of continuous cancellations. the bank of england is expected to raise interest rates for a 12 time in a row as it tries to reduce inflation. analysts think the rate will rise by a quarter of a percentage point to 4.5%. donald trump says he will consider pardoning many of those convicted for storming the us capitol. during a live tv debate, he said he ridiculed the civil court in new york, which and he sexually abused and defamed the journalist e jean carroll. and the leader of plaid cymru adam price is stepping down. it comes days after a report found a culture of bullying, sexual harassment and misogyny in the party. katie smith has your sport. inter milan boss sim only has said thejob is not done inter milan boss sim only has said the job is not done yet. inter milan boss sim only has said thejob is not done yet. it is inter milan boss sim only has said the job is not done yet. it is after they beat bitter rivals ac milan 2—0 in the first leg of their champions

league semifinal. former manchester city striker edin dzeko and former arsenal man dazzled in the first minutes at the san siro. the second leg is next week on tuesday. a former chelsea striker has told 5 live everyone dislikes chelsea, but it didn't stop them chancing leicester 6—0 to move a point back from wsl leaders manchester united. the two sides face each other in the fa cup final on sunday. andy murray is out of the italian open tennis. he was knocked out in the first round by player fabio fognini in three sets. and last week's madrid open organisers have apologised for not allowing the women's doubles finalists to speak on court following sunday's match. the convention is for runners—up and winners to address the crowd following finals. part of the winning duo, victoria azarenka, tweeted afterwards saying it was hard to expend to her son why she couldn't say hello to him at the ceremony.

it isa it is a phone in on rail services, end of the line? big response, keep it coming. you may want to get in touch right now because we have got mick lynch, the secretary general of the rmt union. members are due to strike on saturday. it has been in the news about transpennine express being moved to an operator of last

resort. it is effective nationalisation. you are the owner now, at a remove. mick, nationalisation. you are the owner now, ata remove. mick, good morning. what is your reaction to this news about transpennine express? we have been talking to passengers whose lives have been profoundly affected and they are at the end of their tether. work life, family life. did you see this coming? family life. did you see this cominu ? ~ family life. did you see this coming?— family life. did you see this comina? ~ , . , , coming? we expected it. firstly, the com an coming? we expected it. firstly, the company running _ coming? we expected it. firstly, the company running that _ coming? we expected it. firstly, the company running that contract i coming? we expected it. firstly, the company running that contract had . coming? we expected it. firstly, the company running that contract had a| company running that contract had a contract which is equally calamitous for the public if it had been extended. so they have made a typical decision of splitting the difference of taking one contract away and allowing another contract to proceed. first group made £70 million last year in profit, which your listeners are subsidising. they offer nothing to the industry or the

passengers and they are just allowed to cream off money, as all the operators are. some of gamma operators are. some of gamma operators of railways in europe, some of them are private. they have prove that they are undecidable to meet the needs of people in the north. the mayors of the north, andy burnham and others, have campaigned for this. burnham and others, have campaigned forthis. it burnham and others, have campaigned for this. it should have happened quicker, because they allowed them to stumble on until the end of the contract. they should have been quicker so we could get an efficient system that works for the passengers, the economy, the environment and our members, because they are sick of taking the abuse that arises from first group's incompetence. so hopefully, it will be a new beginning. but we need to get the railway sorted out. we need an integrated system that is in public ownership so it works on behalf of our people. i am public ownership so it works on behalf of our people.— behalf of our people. i am 'ust lookin: behalf of our people. i am 'ust looking at fl behalf of our people. i am 'ust looking at the i behalf of our people. i am just looking at the government i behalf of our people. i am just i looking at the government website commenting on this. "while making the decision to bring transpennine

express into an operator of last resort, the department recognises that a number of problems facing transpennine express stern that a number of problems facing transpennine express stem from matters out of its control. these include a backlog of recruitment and training drivers, reforming how their workforce operates and most notably, aslef�*s decision to withdraw rest day working, preventing drivers from taking on overtime shifts and filling in gaps in services. how would you respond to that, the fact that you haven't helped? to that, the fact that you haven't heled? ~ . to that, the fact that you haven't heled? ~ , , . helped? well, it is incompetence. the are helped? well, it is incompetence. they are saying — helped? well, it is incompetence. they are saying they _ helped? well, it is incompetence. they are saying they haven't i they are saying they haven't recruited enough people. they have been on the airwaves going back to grant shapps last year, saying they have to slimmed down the railway. they have told me they need to lose thousands ofjobs. and grant shapps said at one stage last year that he was going to cancel all overtime on the railway. he said that on radio [i last year. and it means the tories don't know anything about the

railways. they have run on overtime since the time of stephenson 's rocket. we haven't got enough people and our members are having to work extended shifts, extra days, six or seven days a week, when they are tired of it. they should be able to earn a living within the working week in their contract. everybody is prepared to help their employer out, but when you are being berated on the airwaves by your employer, by steve montgomery, who heads up the rail delivery group and firstgroup, which has now been booted out of its contract, the person that i negotiate with most weeks of the year and can't get a deal with, when you are being slagged off by your employer and by the tories, it is little wonder that people don't want to give an extra commitment. we hoped for a new beginning for the railways were it would be run in all of our interests.— railways were it would be run in all of our interests. what does that new be . innina of our interests. what does that new beginning look— of our interests. what does that new beginning look like? _ of our interests. what does that new beginning look like? it _ of our interests. what does that new beginning look like? it looks - of our interests. what does that new beginning look like? it looks like i of our interests. what does that new beginning look like? it looks like a i beginning look like? it looks like a ublicl beginning look like? it looks like a publicly owned _ beginning look like? it looks like a publicly owned enterprise - beginning look like? it looks like a publicly owned enterprise that i beginning look like? it looks like a publicly owned enterprise that is l publicly owned enterprise that is

run on all of our halves so we take the profit motive out, we get rid of these leeches that are the rolling stock leasing companies, who in the last few years have made over £500 million. . last few years have made over £500 million-_ yes- _ last few years have made over £500 million._ yes. they - last few years have made over £500 million._ yes. they provide million. leeches? yes. they provide nothinu. million. leeches? yes. they provide nothing- all — million. leeches? yes. they provide nothing. all through _ million. leeches? yes. they provide nothing. all through the _ million. leeches? yes. they provide nothing. all through the pandemic, | nothing. all through the pandemic, the rolling stock was in the because there were not enough people. they received every penny of their contract while many of listeners were on short time and no time and lost theirjobs. the people who run the rolling stock leasing companies got paid in full and were making in excess of £150 million of profit every year during the pandemic, or through these disputes. similarly, the train operating companies have taken the contract taken off them and now they receive a royalty. they have got no capital at risk. they have got no capital at risk. they have got no credibility at risk. i just wonder if "leeches" is useful

language. just wonder if 'leeches" is useful lanaauae. ~ . , just wonder if 'leeches" is useful lanuauae.~ . , ., , language. well, that is what they do. the language. well, that is what they d0- they sit _ language. well, that is what they do. they sit on _ language. well, that is what they do. they sit on the _ language. well, that is what they do. they sit on the body - language. well, that is what they do. they sit on the body of i language. well, that is what they do. they sit on the body of the i do. they sit on the body of the railway. they farm taxpayers' money and fare payers�* money railway. they farm taxpayers�* money and fare payers�* money and get nothing in return. they get 25 to 30 year contracts which they have to provide nothing for. they take a loan of the bank and they claim the money of the passenger and taxpayer. it is a corrupt railway system that we are running. what he said in his statement today, mark harper, is that he wants to give the railways back to those who have destroyed it. has our railway been destroyed? it�*s has our railway been destroyed? it's on the has our railway been destroyed? it�*s on the verge of being destroyed, because we have got cuts being introduced, £2 billion worth of cuts, while these private operators are extracting profit. they have got

nothing at risk, they are not interested in the long—term interests of the railway, or the passengers that need to use it. let�*s get some callers on. daz is in hull and patricia in bingley and jeff is in luton. jeff, you are not dead set against the private model, are you? you can speak to mick. i remember the bad old days, with the sandwiches _ remember the bad old days, with the sandwiches and the trains that didn't— sandwiches and the trains that didn't run— sandwiches and the trains that didn't run on time in the 60s and 705. _ didn't run on time in the 60s and 70s. and— didn't run on time in the 60s and 70s, and getting somewhere you wanted _ 70s, and getting somewhere you wanted to— 70s, and getting somewhere you wanted to go was difficult. i travel regularly— wanted to go was difficult. i travel regularly from london or stevenage up regularly from london or stevenage up to— regularly from london or stevenage up to shipley. i booked my tickets in advance — up to shipley. i booked my tickets in advance. it is a much better price _ in advance. it is a much better price than— in advance. it is a much better price than taking my car, much less stressful— price than taking my car, much less stressful and we always get a good

service _ stressful and we always get a good service. very rarely have i had to stand _ service. very rarely have i had to stand and — service. very rarely have i had to stand and overall, it is pretty good — stand and overall, it is pretty good i— stand and overall, it is pretty good i do— stand and overall, it is pretty good. i do agree that perhaps the infrastructure needs nationalising. but there — infrastructure needs nationalising. but there are companies that i travel. — but there are companies that i travel, and i travel regularly into london — travel, and i travel regularly into london as— travel, and i travel regularly into london as well on the old thameslink line, brilliant compared to how it used _ line, brilliant compared to how it used to— line, brilliant compared to how it used to be — line, brilliant compared to how it used to be. i accept that there are problems— used to be. i accept that there are problems with transport and on. way and i am _ problems with transport and on. way and i am in _ problems with transport and on. way and i am in yorkshire, i hearabout it from _ and i am in yorkshire, i hearabout it from people other —— problems with transpennine. something has to be done _ with transpennine. something has to be done about that. and not having a contract _ be done about that. and not having a contract for _ be done about that. and not having a contract for people working on a sunday— contract for people working on a sunday was madness.— contract for people working on a sunday was madness. speak to mick about that, complete _ sunday was madness. speak to mick about that, complete madness? i sunday was madness. speak to mick i about that, complete madness? well, we do work sundays, _ about that, complete madness? -ii we do work sundays, nicky. the railway runs seven days a week. but people can�*t work seven days each. people deserve a rest. most people have a contract that says they get two days of rest a week. that is

standard across the industry. the investment that has been given has all been directed at the south—east zone. people in scotland, wales on the north of england are complaining because the investment has gone where the profits are. the commuter model has been put adrift at the minute because of most covid work patterns. now we have a lot of leisure patterns. there are some good services. but if the private model was so good, you wonder why a tory government over the last few years has taken four of the operators into direct government control. when they have done that, lner is a particular case, they have returned an efficient service and profit for the government. they have brought money into the treasury, whereas if you take avanti and tpe and northern... but whereas if you take avanti and tpe and northern...— and northern... but avanti has turned it around. _ and northern... but avanti has turned it around. they - and northern... but avanti has turned it around. they have i and northern... but avanti has i turned it around. they have turned it around, turned it around. they have turned it around. but— turned it around. they have turned it around, but they _ turned it around. they have turned it around, but they are _ turned it around. they have turned it around, but they are raking i

turned it around. they have turned it around, but they are raking in i it around, but they are raking in profits and they had two years of hell to do that. they had to recruit thousands of extra staff to do it. let�*s bring jeff back. i thousands of extra staff to do it. let's bring jeff back.— let's bring jeff back. i take exception _ let's bring jeff back. i take exception to _ let's bring jeff back. i take exception to what - let's bring jeff back. i take exception to what mick i let's bring jeff back. i take i exception to what mick sets. -- let's bring jeff back. i take - exception to what mick sets. -- do exception to what mick sets. —— do what _ exception to what mick sets. —— do what he _ exception to what mick sets. —— do what he says. northern rail has a good _ what he says. northern rail has a good service, thameslink, good service — good service, thameslink, good service. yes, the workers deserve days— service. yes, the workers deserve days off. — service. yes, the workers deserve days off, everybody does. but to have _ days off, everybody does. but to have a _ days off, everybody does. but to have a contract where you don't have enough _ have a contract where you don't have enough drivers on transpennine, that isjust— enough drivers on transpennine, that isiust poor— enough drivers on transpennine, that isjust poor management. but i remember the days when we had nationalised rail services and they were _ nationalised rail services and they were awful. and that was down to the model— were awful. and that was down to the model of— were awful. and that was down to the model of nationalisation. we had that across a number of industries and it— that across a number of industries and it was— that across a number of industries and it was awful. so get away from the nationalisation argument. the private _ the nationalisation argument. the private sector and public sector can

work _ private sector and public sector can work together. i worked in the public— work together. i worked in the public sector for many years. i have 'ust public sector for many years. i have just finished — public sector for many years. i have just finished 32 years working in the public— just finished 32 years working in the public sector, and the two have to work— the public sector, and the two have to work together. we have to get away _ to work together. we have to get away from — to work together. we have to get away from this idea that we must nationalise everything. it is worth remindin: nationalise everything. it is worth reminding ourselves _ nationalise everything. it is worth reminding ourselves that - nationalise everything. it is worth reminding ourselves that keir- reminding ourselves that keir starmer seems to be stepping back from that as well, saying it would not be a priority for him if he won the next election. mick lynch is here, patricia in bingley is here and daz in hull and vera in kirkham. patricia, good morning.— patricia, good morning. sorry, my -hone patricia, good morning. sorry, my phone went _ patricia, good morning. sorry, my phone went off — patricia, good morning. sorry, my phone went off for _ patricia, good morning. sorry, my phone went off for a _ patricia, good morning. sorry, my phone went off for a couple - patricia, good morning. sorry, my phone went off for a couple of- phone went off for a couple of seconds _ phone went off for a couple of seconds. ~ . ., , ., _ phone went off for a couple of seconds. ~ . ., ., ~ seconds. what would you say to mick l nch seconds. what would you say to mick lynch about — seconds. what would you say to mick lynch about this? _ seconds. what would you say to mick lynch about this? i _ seconds. what would you say to mick lynch about this? i fully _ seconds. what would you say to mick lynch about this? i fully support i lynch about this? i fully support mick lynch. _

lynch about this? i fully support mick lynch. to _ lynch about this? i fully support mick lynch, to be _ lynch about this? i fully support mick lynch, to be honest. i- lynch about this? i fully support| mick lynch, to be honest. i have luckily— mick lynch, to be honest. i have luckily been retired for a few years. — luckily been retired for a few years, but transpennine has always been _ years, but transpennine has always been a _ years, but transpennine has always been a disaster. dreadful overcrowding, cancellations. i have had to— overcrowding, cancellations. i have had to stand up from manchester to leeds— had to stand up from manchester to leeds before and i agree that people shouldwt— leeds before and i agree that people shouldn't be expected to have to work _ shouldn't be expected to have to work seven days a week. they deserve a rest _ work seven days a week. they deserve a rest day _ work seven days a week. they deserve a rest day and when the company is lambasting — a rest day and when the company is lambasting their workers because they want a rest day and they are requiring — they want a rest day and they are requiring them to work on those rest days. _ requiring them to work on those rest days, we _ requiring them to work on those rest days, we have a lot to answer for. my other— days, we have a lot to answer for. my other issue is, let's look at the inequality— my other issue is, let's look at the inequality of the amount of money that is_ inequality of the amount of money that is put— inequality of the amount of money that is put into the south and the rail networks there compared to the north _ rail networks there compared to the north let's— rail networks there compared to the north. let's do a bit of evening up. the government are saying they had to do something about this because it is a drag on the northern economy. we have all been on one of

those journeys, economy. we have all been on one of thosejourneys, not good. inlet economy. we have all been on one of those journeys, not good.— those 'ourneys, not good. not good at those journeys, not good. not good at all. and when _ those journeys, not good. not good at all. and when you _ those journeys, not good. not good at all. and when you get _ those journeys, not good. not good at all. and when you get a - at all. and when you get a cancellation on the next train is in our, _ cancellation on the next train is in our, as_ cancellation on the next train is in our, as a — cancellation on the next train is in our, as a commuter, you have then -ot our, as a commuter, you have then got double — our, as a commuter, you have then got double the amount of people who are trying _ got double the amount of people who are trying to get on one train and at the _ are trying to get on one train and at the end — are trying to get on one train and at the end of a long day, it's not great _ at the end of a long day, it's not great to— at the end of a long day, it's not great to think, i am going to have to stand _ great to think, i am going to have to stand up — great to think, i am going to have to stand up now for over an hour. did nobody— to stand up now for over an hour. did nobody give you a seat? i would have. ., . , did nobody give you a seat? i would have. ., ., , i. ., �* have. no! i am sure you would. but when there — have. no! i am sure you would. but when there is _ have. no! i am sure you would. but when there is no _ have. no! i am sure you would. but when there is no room _ have. no! i am sure you would. but when there is no room to _ have. no! i am sure you would. but when there is no room to move, - have. no! i am sure you would. but l when there is no room to move, even if somebody— when there is no room to move, even if somebody wanted to give us eightm — if somebody wanted to give us eight i— if somebody wanted to give us eiaht. .. ., if somebody wanted to give us eiuht... . ., , , ., eight... i am not suggesting you are in our eight... i am not suggesting you are in your dotage- _ eight... i am not suggesting you are in your dotage- i _ eight... i am not suggesting you are in your dotage. i wasn't _ eight... i am not suggesting you are in your dotage. i wasn't when - eight... i am not suggesting you are in your dotage. i wasn't when i - eight... i am not suggesting you are in your dotage. i wasn't when i was l in your dotage. i wasn't when i was workinu. in your dotage. i wasn't when i was working- peeple — in your dotage. i wasn't when i was working. people these _ in your dotage. i wasn't when i was working. people these days! - in your dotage. i wasn't when i was working. people these days! let i in your dotage. i wasn't when i was | working. people these days! let me brina in working. people these days! let me bring in vera- _ working. people these days! let me bring in vera. hello. _ working. people these days! let me bring in vera. hello. good - bring in vera. hello. good exnerience. _ bring in vera. hello. good experience, bad _ bring in vera. hello. good i experience, bad experience? bring in vera. hello. good - experience, bad experience? bad. i had to no experience, bad experience? bad. i had to go to — experience, bad experience? bad. i had to go to from _

experience, bad experience? bad. i had to go to from kirkham - experience, bad experience? bad. i had to go to from kirkham to - had to go to from kirkham to maidstone _ had to go to from kirkham to maidstone for— had to go to from kirkham to maidstone for a _ had to go to from kirkham to maidstone for a wedding - had to go to from kirkham to maidstone for a wedding and j maidstone for a wedding and encountered _ maidstone for a wedding and encountered a _ maidstone for a wedding and encountered a number- maidstone for a wedding and encountered a number of- maidstone for a wedding and - encountered a number of changes and --oin encountered a number of changes and going across _ encountered a number of changes and going across london _ encountered a number of changes and going across london to _ encountered a number of changes and going across london to a _ encountered a number of changes and going across london to a different - going across london to a different station _ going across london to a different station i— going across london to a different station. i asked _ going across london to a different station. i asked for— going across london to a different station. i asked for assistance - going across london to a different. station. i asked for assistance from kirkham _ station. i asked for assistance from kirkham because _ station. i asked for assistance from kirkham because i— station. i asked for assistance from kirkham because i am _ station. i asked for assistance from kirkham because i am disabled. - station. i asked for assistance from kirkham because i am disabled. i. kirkham because i am disabled. i can't _ kirkham because i am disabled. i can't go — kirkham because i am disabled. i can't go down _ kirkham because i am disabled. i can't go down slopes _ kirkham because i am disabled. i can't go down slopes and - kirkham because i am disabled. i can't go down slopes and stuff. kirkham because i am disabled. i. can't go down slopes and stuff with a walker _ can't go down slopes and stuff with a walker so— can't go down slopes and stuff with a walker so i— can't go down slopes and stuff with a walker. so i took— can't go down slopes and stuff with a walker. so i took a _ can't go down slopes and stuff with a walker. so i took a taxi _ can't go down slopes and stuff with a walker. so i took a taxi from - a walker. so i took a taxi from kirkham — a walker. so i took a taxi from kirkham to— a walker. so i took a taxi from kirkham to preston _ a walker. so i took a taxi from kirkham to preston because . a walker. so i took a taxi from - kirkham to preston because kirkham was being _ kirkham to preston because kirkham was being refurbished. _ kirkham to preston because kirkham was being refurbished. absolutely. kirkham to preston because kirkham| was being refurbished. absolutely no assistance _ was being refurbished. absolutely no assistance anywhere _ was being refurbished. absolutely no assistance anywhere at _ was being refurbished. absolutely no assistance anywhere at any _ was being refurbished. absolutely no assistance anywhere at any of - was being refurbished. absolutely no assistance anywhere at any of the - assistance anywhere at any of the stations _ assistance anywhere at any of the stations i— assistance anywhere at any of the stations i booked _ assistance anywhere at any of the stations i booked it— assistance anywhere at any of the stations i booked it for. _ assistance anywhere at any of the stations i booked it for. and - assistance anywhere at any of the stations i booked it for. and if- assistance anywhere at any of the j stations i booked it for. and if not for people — stations i booked it for. and if not for people on— stations i booked it for. and if not for people on the _ stations i booked it for. and if not for people on the train _ stations i booked it for. and if not for people on the train you - stations i booked it for. and if not for people on the train you were l for people on the train you were very— for people on the train you were very kind — for people on the train you were very kind and _ for people on the train you were very kind and helped _ for people on the train you were very kind and helped me, - for people on the train you were very kind and helped me, i- for people on the train you were. very kind and helped me, i would have _ very kind and helped me, i would have been— very kind and helped me, i would have been lost. _ very kind and helped me, i would have been lost. i— very kind and helped me, i would have been lost. i missed - very kind and helped me, i would have been lost. i missed the - very kind and helped me, i would| have been lost. i missed the train to maidstone _ have been lost. i missed the train to maidstone which _ have been lost. i missed the train to maidstone which i _ have been lost. i missed the train to maidstone which i should - have been lost. i missed the train to maidstone which i should have| to maidstone which i should have -ot. to maidstone which i should have got so— to maidstone which i should have got so the — to maidstone which i should have got so the people _ to maidstone which i should have got. so the people who _ to maidstone which i should have got. so the people who were - to maidstone which i should have i got. so the people who were waiting for me _ got. so the people who were waiting for me were — got. so the people who were waiting for me were wondering _ got. so the people who were waiting for me were wondering where - got. so the people who were waiting for me were wondering where i - got. so the people who were waiting for me were wondering where i was. j got. so the people who were waitingl for me were wondering where i was. i missed _ for me were wondering where i was. i missed their — for me were wondering where i was. i missed their phone _ for me were wondering where i was. i missed their phone call. _ for me were wondering where i was. i missed their phone call. but - for me were wondering where i was. i missed their phone call. but it- missed their phone call. but it shouldn't— missed their phone call. but it shouldn't have _ missed their phone call. but it shouldn't have happened. - missed their phone call. but it. shouldn't have happened. when i missed their phone call. but it- shouldn't have happened. when i got to preston, _ shouldn't have happened. when i got to preston, you — shouldn't have happened. when i got to preston, you have _ shouldn't have happened. when i got to preston, you have to _ shouldn't have happened. when i got to preston, you have to go _ shouldn't have happened. when i got to preston, you have to go down - shouldn't have happened. when i got to preston, you have to go down a i

to preston, you have to go down a slope _ to preston, you have to go down a slope to— to preston, you have to go down a slope to get— to preston, you have to go down a slope to get onto _ to preston, you have to go down a slope to get onto the _ to preston, you have to go down a slope to get onto the platforms. . slope to get onto the platforms. there _ slope to get onto the platforms. there was — slope to get onto the platforms. there was a _ slope to get onto the platforms. there was a mini _ slope to get onto the platforms. there was a mini barrier- slope to get onto the platforms. there was a mini barrier acrossl slope to get onto the platforms. i there was a mini barrier across and i there was a mini barrier across and t titeratiy— there was a mini barrier across and t literatty had — there was a mini barrier across and i literally had to _ there was a mini barrier across and i literally had to shout _ there was a mini barrier across and i literally had to shout to _ there was a mini barrier across and i literally had to shout to those - i literally had to shout to those people — i literally had to shout to those people to — i literally had to shout to those people to help— i literally had to shout to those people to help me _ i literally had to shout to those people to help me get - i literally had to shout to those people to help me get down. l i literally had to shout to thosej people to help me get down. it i literally had to shout to those - people to help me get down. it would make a _ people to help me get down. it would make a very— people to help me get down. it would make a very good _ people to help me get down. it would make a very good film _ people to help me get down. it would make a very good film on _ people to help me get down. it would make a very good film on youtube, . make a very good film on youtube, i'm make a very good film on youtube, t'm sure~ _ make a very good film on youtube, i'm sure. ., ., , ., , ., i'm sure. you would be a sensation. that is terrible. _ i'm sure. you would be a sensation. that is terrible. it _ i'm sure. you would be a sensation. that is terrible. it was _ that is terrible. it was embarrassing. - that is terrible. it was embarrassing. i- that is terrible. it was l embarrassing. i couldn't that is terrible. it was - embarrassing. i couldn't have that is terrible. it was _ embarrassing. i couldn't have done it without _ embarrassing. i couldn't have done it without people _ embarrassing. i couldn't have done it without people who _ embarrassing. i couldn't have done it without people who were - embarrassing. i couldn't have done it without people who were kind . embarrassing. i couldn't have done it without people who were kind onj it without people who were kind on the train _ it without people who were kind on the train they— it without people who were kind on the train. they need _ it without people who were kind on the train. they need to— it without people who were kind on the train. they need to realise - it without people who were kind on the train. they need to realise that not everybody _ the train. they need to realise that not everybody is _ the train. they need to realise that not everybody is able—bodied - the train. they need to realise that not everybody is able—bodied and i not everybody is able—bodied and there _ not everybody is able—bodied and there are — not everybody is able—bodied and there are others _ not everybody is able—bodied and there are others like _ not everybody is able—bodied and there are others like mums - not everybody is able—bodied and there are others like mums with. not everybody is able—bodied and . there are others like mums with kids and brams _ there are others like mums with kids and brams and — there are others like mums with kids and prams and staff— there are others like mums with kids and prams and staff that _ there are others like mums with kids and prams and staff that need - there are others like mums with kids and prams and staff that need a - there are others like mums with kids and prams and staff that need a bit i and prams and staff that need a bit of hetb _ and prams and staff that need a bit of hetb and — and prams and staff that need a bit of help. and they— and prams and staff that need a bit of help. and they don't, _ and prams and staff that need a bit of help. and they don't, they- and prams and staff that need a bit of help. and they don't, theyjust l of help. and they don't, theyjust plod of help. and they don't, theyjust btod atond — of help. and they don't, theyjust btod atond it— of help. and they don't, theyjust plod along. it has— of help. and they don't, theyjust plod along. it has changed - of help. and they don't, theyjust plod along. it has changed so - of help. and they don't, theyjust . plod along. it has changed so much over the _ plod along. it has changed so much over the years _ plod along. it has changed so much over the years. do _ plod along. it has changed so much over the years— over the years. do you remember british rail? _ over the years. do you remember british rail? my— over the years. do you remember british rail? my late _ over the years. do you remember british rail? my late husband - over the years. do you rememberl british rail? my late husband used to drive from _ british rail? my late husband used to drive from blackpool— british rail? my late husband used to drive from blackpool central- british rail? my late husband used to drive from blackpool central to l to drive from blackpool central to london. — to drive from blackpool central to london, manchester— to drive from blackpool central to london, manchester and - to drive from blackpool central to london, manchester and all- to drive from blackpool central to london, manchester and all overl to drive from blackpool central to i london, manchester and all over the place _ london, manchester and all over the place so— london, manchester and all over the place so we — london, manchester and all over the place. so we have _ london, manchester and all over the place. so we have done _ london, manchester and all over the place. so we have done a _ london, manchester and all over the place. so we have done a lot- london, manchester and all over the place. so we have done a lot of-

place. so we have done a lot of train _ place. so we have done a lot of train travet _ place. so we have done a lot of train travel on _ place. so we have done a lot of train travel on the _ place. so we have done a lot of train travel on the european . train travel on the european continent. _ train travel on the european continent, and _ train travel on the european continent, and i— train travel on the european continent, and i wish - train travel on the european continent, and i wish our. train travel on the european i continent, and i wish our trains were _ continent, and i wish our trains were like — continent, and i wish our trains were like theirs. _ continent, and i wish our trains were like theirs. ours- continent, and i wish our trains were like theirs. ours are - continent, and i wish our trains were like theirs. ours are too i were like theirs. ours are too overcrowded, _ were like theirs. ours are too overcrowded, like _ were like theirs. ours are too overcrowded, like the - were like theirs. ours are too overcrowded, like the personj were like theirs. ours are too - overcrowded, like the person said before _ overcrowded, like the person said before me — overcrowded, like the person said before me. and _ overcrowded, like the person said before me. and you _ overcrowded, like the person said before me. and you shouldn't - overcrowded, like the person said i before me. and you shouldn't have overcrowded, like the person said - before me. and you shouldn't have to id before me. and you shouldn't have to go into— before me. and you shouldn't have to go into all— before me. and you shouldn't have to go into all this — before me. and you shouldn't have to go into all this standing _ before me. and you shouldn't have to go into all this standing up _ before me. and you shouldn't have to go into all this standing up and - go into all this standing up and crowding — go into all this standing up and crowding and _ go into all this standing up and crowding and crashing - go into all this standing up and crowding and crashing to - go into all this standing up and crowding and crashing to get . go into all this standing up and i crowding and crashing to get on go into all this standing up and - crowding and crashing to get on the train _ crowding and crashing to get on the train it's_ crowding and crashing to get on the train it's wrong _ crowding and crashing to get on the train. it's wrong.— train. it's wrong. lovely talking to ou. train. it's wrong. lovely talking to you- would _ train. it's wrong. lovely talking to you- would you — train. it's wrong. lovely talking to you. would you like _ train. it's wrong. lovely talking to you. would you like to _ train. it's wrong. lovely talking to you. would you like to speak- train. it's wrong. lovely talking to you. would you like to speak to l train. it's wrong. lovely talking to i you. would you like to speak to mick lynch, the railway union man? ida. lynch, the railway union man? no, ou can lynch, the railway union man? no, you can pass— lynch, the railway union man? no, you can pass on the message. lynch, the railway union man? no, | you can pass on the message. have ou aot you can pass on the message. have you got the — you can pass on the message. have you got the message _ you can pass on the message. have you got the message from - you can pass on the message. you got the message from vera? you can pass on the message. have i you got the message from vera? what we see going — you got the message from vera? twist we see going forward as you got the message from vera? ryousgt we see going forward as a you got the message from vera? “yo"usgt we see going forward as a railway is a people's railway. we don't want to go back to the br model. we want a railway that is fully staffed with a human face and a friendly and safe environment. but we are faced with an asset stripped model going

forward where they wanted the staff that make they want to destaff the stations. , .., “ that make they want to destaff the stations. , .. �* . ., , stations. they can't cut anything else, stations. they can't cut anything else. because — stations. they can't cut anything else, because it _ stations. they can't cut anything else, because it would _ stations. they can't cut anything else, because it would be i stations. they can't cut anything else, because it would be a i else, because it would be a disaster _ else, because it would be a disaster. what _ else, because it would be a disaster. what do - else, because it would be a disaster. what do you - else, because it would be a . disaster. what do you mean? else, because it would be a - disaster. what do you mean? you can't _ disaster. what do you mean? you can't keep— disaster. what do you mean? you can't keep cutting _ disaster. what do you mean? you can't keep cutting services- disaster. what do you mean? you can't keep cutting services and i disaster. what do you mean? you l can't keep cutting services and then expect— can't keep cutting services and then expect them — can't keep cutting services and then exoect them to _ can't keep cutting services and then expect them to be _ can't keep cutting services and then expect them to be the _ can't keep cutting services and then expect them to be the same. - can't keep cutting services and then expect them to be the same. it's. can't keep cutting services and thenl expect them to be the same. it's not fair on _ expect them to be the same. it's not fair on the _ expect them to be the same. it's not fair on the people _ expect them to be the same. it's not fair on the people left _ expect them to be the same. it's not fair on the people left behind - expect them to be the same. it's not fair on the people left behind to i expect them to be the same. it's not fair on the people left behind to do l fair on the people left behind to do the job _ fair on the people left behind to do the job they— fair on the people left behind to do the job they are _ fair on the people left behind to do the job. they are the _ fair on the people left behind to do the job. they are the ones - fair on the people left behind to do the job. they are the ones who i fair on the people left behind to do the job. they are the ones who getj the job. they are the ones who get the job. they are the ones who get the flak, _ the job. they are the ones who get the flak, not— the job. they are the ones who get the flak, not the _ the job. they are the ones who get the flak, not the people _ the job. they are the ones who get the flak, not the people who - the job. they are the ones who get the flak, not the people who do i the job. they are the ones who get| the flak, not the people who do the cutting _ the flak, not the people who do the cutting l— the flak, not the people who do the cuttina. ., the flak, not the people who do the cutting- you _ the flak, not the people who do the cutting.- you can _ the flak, not the people who do the cutting.- you can only i the flak, not the people who do the cutting.- you can only do i the flak, not the people who do the cutting.- you can only do so cutting. i agree. you can only do so much in an — cutting. i agree. you can only do so much in an hour. _ cutting. i agree. you can only do so much in an hour. you _ cutting. i agree. you can only do so much in an hour. you are _ cutting. i agree. you can only do so much in an hour. you are human. l cutting. i agree. you can only do so i much in an hour. you are human. they can't _ much in an hour. you are human. they can't keep— much in an hour. you are human. they can't keep cutting _ much in an hour. you are human. they can't keep cutting services, _ much in an hour. you are human. they can't keep cutting services, i'm - can't keep cutting services, i'm sorry — can't keep cutting services, i'm sorry i— can't keep cutting services, i'm sorry. i could _ can't keep cutting services, i'm sorry. i could use _ can't keep cutting services, i'm sorry. i could use the _ can't keep cutting services, i'm sorry. i could use the train i can't keep cutting services, i'm sorry. i could use the train nowj can't keep cutting services, i'm i sorry. i could use the train now to preston, — sorry. i could use the train now to preston, but— sorry. i could use the train now to preston, but i _ sorry. i could use the train now to preston, but i don't _ sorry. i could use the train now to preston, but i don't do _ sorry. i could use the train now to preston, but i don't do it- sorry. i could use the train now to preston, but i don't do it becausej preston, but i don't do it because there _ preston, but i don't do it because there is— preston, but i don't do it because there is not— preston, but i don't do it because there is not the _ preston, but i don't do it because there is not the help _ preston, but i don't do it because there is not the help or— preston, but i don't do it because there is not the help or anything. | there is not the help or anything. there _ there is not the help or anything. there are, — there is not the help or anything. there are, you _ there is not the help or anything. there are, you represent- there is not the help or anything. there are, you represent a - there is not the help or anything. there are, you represent a lot i there is not the help or anything. there are, you represent a lot of| there are, you represent a lot of people who do need help and when we

do discuss this, there is great engagement from people who are frustrated because of the very thing you are outlining. it has been lovely having you on. daz is in hull. would you like to say anything to mick lynch? i hull. would you like to say anything to mick lynch?— to mick lynch? i agree with what mick lynch _ to mick lynch? i agree with what mick lynch was _ to mick lynch? i agree with what mick lynch was saying. - to mick lynch? i agree with what mick lynch was saying. i - to mick lynch? i agree with what mick lynch was saying. i used i to mick lynch? i agree with what mick lynch was saying. i used to | to mick lynch? i agree with what i mick lynch was saying. i used to be the hutt— mick lynch was saying. i used to be the hull representative of a transport board. at the time that they took— transport board. at the time that they took the franchise of normal macro, _ they took the franchise of normal macro, which was even more woeful than transpennine's, we said they should _ than transpennine's, we said they should both have been taken off them there and _ should both have been taken off them there and then. but they gave transpennine longer to get their act together _ transpennine longer to get their act together. we said it wouldn't work and they— together. we said it wouldn't work and they have been proved right. you have to _ and they have been proved right. you have to welcome that the government has finally— have to welcome that the government has finally done it, because it is long _ has finally done it, because it is long overdue. but you have to put tpe's _ long overdue. but you have to put tpe's performance in perspective. of the last— tpe's performance in perspective. of the last couple of years, they have reduced _ the last couple of years, they have reduced the timetable and published a revised _ reduced the timetable and published a revised timetable to improve

performances. you said earlier that performances. you said earlier that performances have improved. that is because _ performances have improved. that is because they had already culled the timetable. and they still failed. we need to— timetable. and they still failed. we need to get their way back where it should _ need to get their way back where it should be — need to get their way back where it should be. they railway services between — should be. they railway services between east and west in this country— between east and west in this country are a joke. it isn'tjust about— country are a joke. it isn'tjust about the _ country are a joke. it isn'tjust about the railway company's performance, is also about infrastructure investment, and the government missed an opportunity last year— government missed an opportunity last year with the integrated rail plan because there needs to be a massive — plan because there needs to be a massive upgrade between the east and west coast— massive upgrade between the east and west coast in this country. from hull to _ west coast in this country. from hull to selby, it is not even electrified. if it was, journey times— electrified. if it was, journey times would massively improve. it is a long _ times would massively improve. it is a long overdue decision from the government which we should welcome, but it is— government which we should welcome, but it is only— government which we should welcome, but it is only the start and we need a proper— but it is only the start and we need a proper railway for the north and

between — a proper railway for the north and between east and west. go north and south _ between east and west. go north and south is _ between east and west. go north and south is not _ between east and west. go north and south is not too bad. lner is a good service _ south is not too bad. lner is a good service but — south is not too bad. lner is a good service. but between east and west, it's a joke _ service. but between east and west, it's a joke and it needs massive improvement. it's a joke and it needs massive improvement-— it's a joke and it needs massive improvement. it's a joke and it needs massive imrovement. ., ., i. ~ improvement. one more for you, mick. after ten, improvement. one more for you, mick. after ten. by — improvement. one more for you, mick. after ten. by the _ improvement. one more for you, mick. after ten, by the way, _ improvement. one more for you, mick. after ten, by the way, we _ improvement. one more for you, mick. after ten, by the way, we will- after ten, by the way, we will discuss something vital to the economy, interest rates, the rise expected. how will it affect you? borrowers, savers, get in touch. adrian, i'm going to put you and mick together. what do you want to say? mr; mick together. what do you want to sa ? ~ , ., mick together. what do you want to sa ? ~ , . . ., . say? my main concern with the railwa s say? my main concern with the railways is _ say? my main concern with the railways is that _ say? my main concern with the railways is that it _ say? my main concern with the railways is that it is _ say? my main concern with the railways is that it is always i say? my main concern with the railways is that it is always put| railways is that it is always put across — railways is that it is always put across that this railway network is so important to our economy and the future _ so important to our economy and the future of— so important to our economy and the future of the — so important to our economy and the future of the country. but the reality— future of the country. but the reality is _ future of the country. but the reality is that less than 20% of the population— reality is that less than 20% of the population use the railway. 10% of people _ population use the railway. 10% of people use it regularly to commute

to work _ people use it regularly to commute to work. we all have to pay for it and it _ to work. we all have to pay for it and it seems an unprofitable enterprise and i don't see why such importance — enterprise and i don't see why such importance is put on it.— enterprise and i don't see why such importance is put on it. mick? well, there is a minority _ importance is put on it. mick? well, there is a minority using _ importance is put on it. mick? well, there is a minority using the - there is a minority using the education system at any particular time, but we all have to pay for that. the railways should be an important part of our infrastructure, particularly for the environment. if we hope to meet international commitments we have given on carbon emissions and the rest of it, the railway in fact has to get bigger. that means it cannot be run on a profit only model, which is the dogma the tories are pursuing and have been pursuing since 1993. virtually everyone has admitted that it has been a failure. mark harper admitted that this morning by renationalising yet another franchise. even peter hitchens, one

of our most right wing commentators, has said the privatisation of the railways has been a disaster. so we need a new model, like we do with water. . , , ., , ., ., water. peter hitchens is a bit of a maverick- — water. peter hitchens is a bit of a maverick- he _ water. peter hitchens is a bit of a maverick. he does _ water. peter hitchens is a bit of a maverick. he does go _ water. peter hitchens is a bit of a maverick. he does go all- water. peter hitchens is a bit of a maverick. he does go all over i water. peter hitchens is a bit of a j maverick. he does go all over the place. his views are always interesting. do you hold much store by what keir starmer is going to do? he seems to be saying that renationalisation would be expensive and not one his priorities. it renationalisation would be expensive and not one his priorities.— and not one his priorities. it won't be expensive _ and not one his priorities. it won't be expensive at _ and not one his priorities. it won't be expensive at all. _ and not one his priorities. it won't be expensive at all. he _ and not one his priorities. it won't be expensive at all. he didn't i and not one his priorities. it won't be expensive at all. he didn't say| be expensive at all. he didn't say that about railways, he was talking about nationalisation in general across the economy. so i take him at his word and when i see him, i will be feeling his colour about that. what will you say to him? i puiii be feeling his colour about that. what will you say to him? i will say he has to follow _ what will you say to him? i will say he has to follow through _ what will you say to him? i will say he has to follow through with i what will you say to him? i will say he has to follow through with his i he has to follow through with his commitments. we have a policy in the labour party that virtually does this for free. you labour party that virtually does this forfree. you could labour party that virtually does this for free. you could take all of the current franchises and all of those that are on short contracts and terminate them quickly at low

cost. then we can start integrating the railways back together, along with the infrastructure operator, and have a fair tariff system that will serve the people. br wasn't invested in four years. do you have full confidence that if keir starmer wins, we will have a nationalised rail system in this country? i don't have full confidence, we will have to keep pressuring him. politicians react to pressure from the people and the powerful groups. so we have to keep pressure on him if he wins power. i hope he wins and i hope he follows through with his mrs.— through with his mrs. thanks for cominu through with his mrs. thanks for coming on- _ through with his mrs. thanks for coming on. that _ through with his mrs. thanks for coming on. that was _ through with his mrs. thanks for coming on. that was mick i through with his mrs. thanks for| coming on. that was mick lynch. thanks to you for your cause. many are frustrated with the state of the railways in this country. i want to talk about the economy in the next

hour of the phone in on 5 live, bbc sounds, bbc two, bbc news and iplayer. so gather your thoughts and get in touch. the bank of england will announce its latest decision and on interest rates late in the day. we will bring it to you on bbc sounds, the radio, and iplayer. it is expected rates will rise about a quarter of a percentage point to 4.25%. those who remember british rail will remember interest rates a lot higher than that. but here we are. did we ever think we would be here? i think some of us did. the age of the low interest, never mind

the age of the train, the age of the low interest rate was thought to last forever. not so. they are trying to dampen inflation, which is stubbornly high at 10%. but of course, it has a knock—on effect on the cost of borrowing. if you are on a tracker variable rate mortgage, we are paying particularly close attention to this. it will affect your rent, if your land for“s mortgage goes up. domino effect galore. but goodies for savers. how will it affect you? can you afford a rate rise? get in touch. and here is the news. train services run by transpennine express are being brought under government control. transport secretary mark harper says it's contract will not be renewed

because of continuous cancellations. as nickyjust said, the bank of england is expected to raise interest rates later for the 12th time in a row. it is expected they will increase to 4.5% as the bank tries to curb inflation. the leader of plaid cymru, adam price, has announced he is stepping down days after a report uncovered a culture of bullying and sexual harassment in the party. he says he will leave once an interim leader is found. bbc news has learnt taxpayers are being charged almost a quarter of £1 million to cover the cost of boris johnson's legal bills during the partygate inquiry. mps are investigating if he misled them about gatherings at downing street during lockdown. never a lender or a borrower will

be. how else will we make it through the night? we have that announcement at midday, and a hike would be a blow to homeowners with variable rate mortgages, and those on fixed mortgages will be coming to an end, and then it will be a real whack. get in touch. you can text as well. let us talk to former bank of england adviserjagjit chadha. good morning. how are you? i am england adviserjagjit chadha. good morning. how are you?— england adviserjagjit chadha. good i morning. how are you?_ can morning. how are you? i am fine. can ou morning. how are you? i am fine. can you explain — morning. how are you? i am fine. can you explain the _ morning. how are you? i am fine. can you explain the thinking _ morning. how are you? i am fine. can you explain the thinking behind i you explain the thinking behind this? why are they going to do it? i listen to everything you said, and these are very difficult times for householders. the national institute of which i was director forecasts that this year and next year, something like an average of a fall in real disposable income of 5—7

cents, a real decline in average living standards. we are right to ask ourselves at this time why are borrowing costs going up so markedly? —— five 5—7%. the rate of interest is now likely to go to 4.5%, which looks like a huge increase at the time when people have been finding their living standards deteriorating. there will be repossessions here. it is really like the bad old days, isn't it? it is desperate for people. it isn't it? it is desperate for --eole. , ., isn't it? it is desperate for --eole. ,. . _ people. it is an incredibly difficult period, _ people. it is an incredibly difficult period, but i i people. it is an incredibly | difficult period, but i think people. it is an incredibly i difficult period, but i think the right way to think about this is that returning to... returning to... ? wejust lost jagiit returning to... ? wejust lost jagjit chadha there. we will try and get him back. i am jagjit chadha there. we will try and get him back. lam not jagjit chadha there. we will try and get him back. i am not the late, great mystic meg, but i think he was maybe going to say returning to a more normal situation, because the

low interest rate climate that we have had, many people were saying that this is unusual and will not last forever, enjoy it while you can. we will get the professor right back. we have cheryl in bromley. hello. is it cheryl or cheryl? it is channel. stephen in gosport as well. good morning, stephen. what does this all mean, cheryl? worrying times? not for me any more, but only inasmuch— not for me any more, but only inasmuch as what happened last year with all— inasmuch as what happened last year with all the _ inasmuch as what happened last year with all the hikes that were going on last— with all the hikes that were going on last year, i had to sell my home. i on last year, i had to sell my home. i lived _ on last year, i had to sell my home. i lived with— on last year, i had to sell my home. i lived with my daughter and obviously, all the interest rates are through the roof, and i was on my own. _ are through the roof, and i was on my own, living on my own, and i was on a _ my own, living on my own, and i was on a fixed _ my own, living on my own, and i was on a fixed rate — my own, living on my own, and i was on a fixed rate mortgage. my mortgage when spiralling through the

roof and _ mortgage when spiralling through the roof and i_ mortgage when spiralling through the roof and i didn't know what to do, so i roof and i didn't know what to do, so i had _ roof and i didn't know what to do, so i had to— roof and i didn't know what to do, so i had to put my home on the market— so i had to put my home on the market which was really difficult for me — market which was really difficult for me. my daughter had to go and live with _ for me. my daughter had to go and live with her father, so we had to separate, — live with her father, so we had to separate, which was horrible, and i found _ separate, which was horrible, and i found myself back at my parents' house _ found myself back at my parents' house i— found myself back at my parents' house. i am 43 years old, i had nowhere — house. i am 43 years old, i had nowhere else to go, i cannot remortgage, so i found myself back now at _ remortgage, so i found myself back now at my — remortgage, so i found myself back now at my parents multi—microphone, and that— now at my parents multi—microphone, and that is— now at my parents multi—microphone, and that is where i currently am today. — and that is where i currently am today, from home. i today, from home. i get _ today, from home. i get it. parents wanting a home at 43. i'm sure in some ways it is lovely, but in other ways that matter of course, it is not ideal. i lived with my daughter and i could not provide — i lived with my daughter and i could not provide a roof over her head, and i_ not provide a roof over her head, and i had — not provide a roof over her head, and i had no _ not provide a roof over her head, and i had no way of doing it any more _ and i had no way of doing it any more i— and i had no way of doing it any more idid— and i had no way of doing it any more. i did not want to rent. i had always— more. i did not want to rent. i had always owned a home and it is not the route — always owned a home and it is not the route i— always owned a home and it is not the route i wanted to take. i was lucky— the route i wanted to take. i was lucky l _ the route i wanted to take. i was lucky l was — the route i wanted to take. i was lucky i was able to sell my home guite _ lucky i was able to sell my home quite quickly, and i have got a deposit — quite quickly, and i have got a deposit now and i have no hopes of getting _ deposit now and i have no hopes of getting a _ deposit now and i have no hopes of getting a mortgage. i keep looking and looking, but with the way

everything is, i don't know how long i will everything is, i don't know how long twill be _ everything is, i don't know how long i will be living like this. give _ i will be living like this. give us _ i will be living like this. give us an idea of how much your mortgage went up. i give us an idea of how much your mortgage went up.— give us an idea of how much your mortgage went up. i was paying £1200 a month, mortgage went up. i was paying £1200 a month. which — mortgage went up. i was paying £1200 a month, which is— mortgage went up. i was paying £1200 a month, which is quite _ mortgage went up. i was paying £1200 a month, which is quite a _ mortgage went up. i was paying £1200 a month, which is quite a lot _ a month, which is quite a lot anyway, _ a month, which is quite a lot anyway, working on my own. in the end i_ anyway, working on my own. in the end i was— anyway, working on my own. in the end i was paying around £2000. i think— end i was paying around £2000. i think before i left, i think i was paying — think before i left, i think i was paying about 2200, completely on my own. paying about 2200, completely on my own i_ paying about 2200, completely on my own l was _ paying about 2200, completely on my own. i was financially crippled. i start _ own. i was financially crippled. i start work— own. i was financially crippled. i start work early anyway, and 7am. i was coming — start work early anyway, and 7am. i was coming home and working in the evenings _ was coming home and working in the evenings and working until 10pm to make _ evenings and working until 10pm to make up— evenings and working until 10pm to make up my hours, just desperately trying _ make up my hours, just desperately trying to— make up my hours, just desperately trying to make ends meet. when i spoke _ trying to make ends meet. when i spoke to— trying to make ends meet. when i spoke to my bank about help, i wanted — spoke to my bank about help, i wanted to— spoke to my bank about help, i wanted to go while the house was on the market. — wanted to go while the house was on the market, hoping i could be put on them _ the market, hoping i could be put on them to— the market, hoping i could be put on them to an _ the market, hoping i could be put on them to an interest only mortgage, and i_ them to an interest only mortgage, and l was _ them to an interest only mortgage, and i was told i could not do that. they— and i was told i could not do that. they suggested i could borrow money

from people, friends or family, but that is— from people, friends or family, but that is a _ from people, friends or family, but that is a horrible situation to be in, that is a horrible situation to be in. to— that is a horrible situation to be in. to ask— that is a horrible situation to be in, to ask people. i have never borrowed _ in, to ask people. i have never borrowed money, and to ask people to lonely— borrowed money, and to ask people to lonely money every single month to make _ lonely money every single month to make ends— lonely money every single month to make ends meet is not what i have done, _ make ends meet is not what i have done, and — make ends meet is not what i have done, and it— make ends meet is not what i have done, and it did not feel natural for me — done, and it did not feel natural for me to — done, and it did not feel natural for me to do that. so i almost broke myself— for me to do that. so i almost broke myself trying to pay my mortgage, scraping _ myself trying to pay my mortgage, scraping by every month just until my house — scraping by every month just until my house sold. it was a horrible, horrible — my house sold. it was a horrible, horrible time, actually, trying to do that, — horrible time, actually, trying to do that, and i can't imagine what it's going — do that, and i can't imagine what it's going to be like for people now — it's going to be like for people now my— it's going to be like for people now. my home would have been repossessed for sure, because i was at breaking — repossessed for sure, because i was at breaking point, absolutely exhausted working the hours i was working _ exhausted working the hours i was working to — exhausted working the hours i was working to pay the mortgage, and there _ working to pay the mortgage, and there isn't— working to pay the mortgage, and there isn't really any help out there — there isn't really any help out there i— there isn't really any help out there. i was looking to my bank and speaking _ there. i was looking to my bank and speaking to— there. i was looking to my bank and speaking to them and it was very much, _ speaking to them and it was very much, no, — speaking to them and it was very much, no, you can't go on interest only. _ much, no, you can't go on interest only. and — much, no, you can't go on interest only. and if— much, no, you can't go on interest only, and if you don't pay your mortgage, _ only, and if you don't pay your mortgage, you know, i did not want to default— mortgage, you know, i did not want to default on my mortgage. i have always— to default on my mortgage. i have always had — to default on my mortgage. i have always had a very good credit rating and wanted to keep that. so it was

'ust and wanted to keep that. so it was just a _ and wanted to keep that. so it was just a really— and wanted to keep that. so it was just a really difficult situation to be in _ just a really difficult situation to be in. fortunately, i sold my home in time _ be in. fortunately, i sold my home in time but — be in. fortunately, i sold my home in time but now i find myself back at my— in time but now i find myself back at my parents, as i say. so in time but now i find myself back at my parents, as i say.— at my parents, as i say. so it is not at my parents, as i say. so it is rrot ideal. _ at my parents, as i say. so it is not ideal, really. _ at my parents, as i say. so it is not ideal, really. it— at my parents, as i say. so it is not ideal, really. it is— not ideal, really. it is interesting. you are still very young. 43 does nothing. but there is a story in the times today, flying the nest is for the birds. half of under 25s live at home. and you are onlyjust past 25, you know. we have got the professor back, professorjagjit chadha. we lost you for a bit. you were in full flow! and you were on the point about, you know, my supposition was that no .1% interest rate was not a normal situation?— interest rate was not a normal situation? ~ , ,., , , situation? absolutely. remember, we cut interest rates _ situation? absolutely. remember, we cut interest rates from _ situation? absolutely. remember, we cut interest rates from 0.52 _ situation? absolutely. remember, we cut interest rates from 0.52 0.196 i situation? absolutely. remember, we cut interest rates from 0.52 0.196 at i cut interest rates from 0.52 0.1% at the start of the covid crisis, an emergency level of interest rate. and i think for same time we have been thinking about how to get

interest rates back to more normal levels, as you said a few moments ago, and that is something that will encourage savings in the economy as well. and so this increase, back to much more normal territory, interest rates averaged in the period prior to the financial crisis something like 4—5% is not something nominally. the interest rates were low for so long and so the bank has been managing this process at the time at which we have had this very high level of inflation. and even though it is distressing to hear of the problems people are having with his high interest rates, it would be more of a chronic problem for the economy if inflation was not brought down to something consistent with the price stability over the next couple of years, which is what these interest rate increases are designed to do. we interest rate increases are designed to do. ~ ., interest rate increases are designed to do. ~ . ., , to do. we hear it will not be unanimous. _ to do. we hear it will not be unanimous, this. _ to do. we hear it will not be unanimous, this. there i to do. we hear it will not be unanimous, this. there will| to do. we hear it will not be i unanimous, this. there will be two policymakers expected to propose this hike and vote to hold rates, so

this hike and vote to hold rates, so this is not a science, is it? essen this is not a science, is it? even in science. _ this is not a science, is it? even in science, there _ this is not a science, is it? even in science, there is _ this is not a science, is it? even in science, there is disagreement. so if we take the broader suite, the increase in interest rates from 0.1 to something like 4.5 looks appropriate. i would to something like 4.5 looks appropriate. iwould personally to something like 4.5 looks appropriate. i would personally not raise interest rates much above 4%, because a large amount of the inflation was covered by the increase in food and energy prices over a year ago, and over time, as you compare prices on a year ago, thatjust falls out of you compare prices on a year ago, that just falls out of the frame of reference. inflation was due to come down this year, and it's not clear to me you needed higher interest rates than around 4%. but whether it is four or 5%, it is tighter than we have had for a generation or so, and what we need to think about is, what is the overall impact of that large increase in interest rates? and to understand what that does to the level of demand. we can't be sure, going back to your point about science, which is why we see the

bank being more cautious at the moment about changing interest rates. �* , , ., moment about changing interest rates. �* , , ., ., moment about changing interest rates. , ,,. rates. and this is on top of public sector pay. _ rates. and this is on top of public sector pay. all— rates. and this is on top of public sector pay, all the _ rates. and this is on top of public sector pay, all the disquiet i rates. and this is on top of public sector pay, all the disquiet and i sector pay, all the disquiet and disputes we are having there, people struggling, and now this. fits disputes we are having there, people struggling, and now this. bus i disputes we are having there, people struggling, and now this.— struggling, and now this. as i said riaht struggling, and now this. as i said ri . ht at struggling, and now this. as i said right at the _ struggling, and now this. as i said right at the beginning, _ struggling, and now this. as i said right at the beginning, this - struggling, and now this. as i said right at the beginning, this is i struggling, and now this. as i said right at the beginning, this is not| right at the beginning, this is not a very pleasant time for households on average. a fall in real disposable income that we are seeing at the moment has been the largest we have seen since the 1950s, when records began. this is a squeeze on households that is very difficult for people to bear, but to be clear, it is the bank of england's job to bring inflation down. they could bring inflation down. they could bring inflation down much more quickly by holding interest rates even higher levels in more quickly, but it is trying to do the minimum possible, but at the same time, the central banks such as the fed and ecb have also been raising rates, and to an extent, that has pushed the bank of england's hand to make sure its interest rates were not out

of whack with those of other countries, which would lead to sterling falling and a further ratcheting up of inflation because the trade and goods that we buy, those are set in price terms in international markets. so we are in a difficult situation because my poor economic performance of the last 15 years or so. let's hear from last 15 years or so. let's hearfrom people, apart from your good self. we heard from cheryl, 43 in bromley, had to move in with her parents. i have already introduced stephen. following stephen, janice in enfield and another cheryl in nottingham. stephen, what is your situation? iii. stephen, what is your situation? hi. i am a pensioner stephen, what is your situation? hi. iam a pensioner on stephen, what is your situation? hi. i am a pensioner on a fairly fixed income — i am a pensioner on a fairly fixed income my— i am a pensioner on a fairly fixed income. my company pensions are rising _ income. my company pensions are rising at— income. my company pensions are rising at around 3% or thereabouts a year _ rising at around 3% or thereabouts a year i_ rising at around 3% or thereabouts a year t know — rising at around 3% or thereabouts a year. i know my state pension is index _ year. i know my state pension is index linked, but that is not the major— index linked, but that is not the major portion. i can go back

historically. in december 2021, before — historically. in december 2021, before interest rates started going up, i before interest rates started going up. i was — before interest rates started going up, i was actually paying £590 a month— up, i was actually paying £590 a month on— up, i was actually paying £590 a month on my mortgage, much better off than— month on my mortgage, much better off than cheryl who we heard earlier — off than cheryl who we heard earlier. but i am currently paying £770 _ earlier. but i am currently paying £770 a _ earlier. but i am currently paying £770 a month, and with the interest rate rise _ £770 a month, and with the interest rate rise due — £770 a month, and with the interest rate rise due today, that is due to id rate rise due today, that is due to go up _ rate rise due today, that is due to go up by, — rate rise due today, that is due to go up by. i— rate rise due today, that is due to go up by, i suppose, another £30 or more _ go up by, i suppose, another £30 or more so— go up by, i suppose, another £30 or more so i_ go up by, i suppose, another £30 or more so i am — go up by, i suppose, another £30 or more. so i am paying injust overa year— more. so i am paying injust overa year £200 — more. so i am paying injust overa year £200 more on my mortgage, when you take _ year £200 more on my mortgage, when you take into — year £200 more on my mortgage, when you take into account that cost of living _ you take into account that cost of living rises, — you take into account that cost of living rises, 10% inflation rate, the cost — living rises, 10% inflation rate, the cost of _ living rises, 10% inflation rate, the cost of gas and electricity, i am estimating that i am about 400— £500 _ am estimating that i am about 400— £500 a _ am estimating that i am about 400— £500 a month worse off than i was a

year ago _ £500 a month worse off than i was a year ago i_ £500 a month worse off than i was a year ago. i am therefore having to bite into _ year ago. i am therefore having to bite into my— year ago. i am therefore having to bite into my savings for my average monthly— bite into my savings for my average monthly outgoing. my pensions don't cover it _ monthly outgoing. my pensions don't cover it any— monthly outgoing. my pensions don't cover it any more, and i can say that— cover it any more, and i can say that i'm— cover it any more, and i can say that i'm probably a lot better off than a _ that i'm probably a lot better off than a lot— that i'm probably a lot better off than a lot of other pensioners. i would _ than a lot of other pensioners. i would like — than a lot of other pensioners. i would like tojust than a lot of other pensioners. i would like to just say something than a lot of other pensioners. i would like tojust say something on what the _ would like tojust say something on what the professor said. yes, lease. what the professor said. yes, please- i _ what the professor said. yes, please. i wouldn't _ what the professor said. yes, please. i wouldn't disagree i what the professor said. yes, i please. i wouldn't disagree with him that historically _ please. i wouldn't disagree with him that historically we _ please. i wouldn't disagree with him that historically we are _ please. i wouldn't disagree with him that historically we are actually i that historically we are actually below — that historically we are actually below average interest rates, but 'ust below average interest rates, but just talking about where they have been for _ just talking about where they have been for the past few years, and when _ been for the past few years, and when you — been for the past few years, and when you go back to july 2007, interest— when you go back to july 2007, interest rates were 5.75, so higher than _ interest rates were 5.75, so higher than they— interest rates were 5.75, so higher than they are now and higher than they will— than they are now and higher than they will be later on today. but by march _ they will be later on today. but by march 2009, they had fallen to 0.5%, so we _ march 2009, they had fallen to 0.5%, so we have _ march 2009, they had fallen to 0.5%,

so we have effectively been 14 or 15 years _ so we have effectively been 14 or 15 years with — so we have effectively been 14 or 15 years with interest rates that are below _ years with interest rates that are below t%. — years with interest rates that are below 1%, and people have budgeted that, and _ below 1%, and people have budgeted that, and especially newer people coming _ that, and especially newer people coming onto the housing market or looking _ coming onto the housing market or looking at— coming onto the housing market or looking at other financial things. i think— looking at other financial things. i think we — looking at other financial things. i think we are in a situation where the fact— think we are in a situation where the fact that interest rates have been _ the fact that interest rates have been as— the fact that interest rates have been as low as they have been for well over— been as low as they have been for well over ten years, people have got used to— well over ten years, people have got used to that, and therefore, to try and budget— used to that, and therefore, to try and budget for rates that are rising to what— and budget for rates that are rising to what they historically were going back to _ to what they historically were going back to 2007 is very, very difficult for people — back to 2007 is very, very difficult for maple-— for people. very difficult for --eole. for people. very difficult for people. listen, _ for people. very difficult for people. listen, we - for people. very difficult for people. listen, we will- for people. very difficult for| people. listen, we will come for people. very difficult for- people. listen, we will come right back to this. i have some news to tell you. the number of people waiting for a routine hospital treatment in england is at a record high. figuresjust in from nhsengland. our health correspondent

isjim reed. he is with us. tell nhsengland. our health correspondent is jim reed. he is with us.— is jim reed. he is with us. tell us more. is jim reed. he is with us. tell us me hi. — is jim reed. he is with us. tell us more. hi, nikki. _ is jim reed. he is with us. tell us more. hi, nikki. yes, _ is jim reed. he is with us. tell us more. hi, nikki. yes, we - is jim reed. he is with us. tell us more. hi, nikki. yes, we watch . is jim reed. he is with us. tell us - more. hi, nikki. yes, we watch these figures every month to see how quickly the health system is bouncing back from the pandemic. these figures are just from england. important today because the government set a couple of key targets on long waiting lists. one of those was to eliminate the number of those was to eliminate the number of people having to wait 18 months for a procedure or an operation by the start of april, and these stats show that it has not met that target. in fairness to the nhs, they have made a lot of progress. in september 2021, there were 125,000 people in england waiting more than 18 months to be seen. they have got that down to 10,700. so that is quite some progress, but it is not eliminating it is the government set out in their target. the nhs says some of these people are ones that will be hanging on for an operation because they have chosen to, others

will be complex cases, and quite a lot are clustered in a small number of trusts that appear to be having problems shifting this back like. but nevertheless, that is a target broken. the second one i wanted to tell you about was on cancer. if you get referred by your gp, an urgent referralfor get referred by your gp, an urgent referral for cancer, suspected cancer, you should start treatment within two months. the target there was to get the backlog of people waiting down to what they caught pre—pandemic levels by march, and again, they have done pretty well. they have not got the numbers down to pre—pandemic levels, though they have got them down. stilljust under 20,000 people having to wait on that waiting list more than two months for cancer treatment. so some progress being made in england, but the government is missing some of these key targets. people will be curious as to whether strikes have had an effect at all. it's interesting, yes, i was at a hospital trust in london yesterday asking that very question, king's couege asking that very question, king's college hospital in south london.

the chief executive there made the point that they would have got their targets down to absolute zero, their 18 month waits down to zero, if it had not been for industrial action, and i think what they are most concerned about is industrial action going forward. so we still have got some concerns and other nurses�* strike there that hasn�*t been resolved, and in particular, the junior doctors�* strike both in england and now in scotland, where strike action looks like it is also going ahead. so these issues, though the wider waiting list here, 7.2 million, is probably not being massively influenced by industrial action, when you�*re talking about operations, procedures, to get the very longest wait is down to zero, it seems to be having at least some effect at some trusts. thanks very much indeed, jim reid, our health correspondent. back to interest rates. we are asking the question, can you afford a rate rise? we get the announcement at midday and you will get it right here on five live on bbc sounds, bbc

micro news, bbc two and iplayer. the financial markets reckon it is all but nailed on, a quarter percent rise from 4.25% to 4.5%. we are asking if you can afford it and what effect it will have on you. savers will not be displeased. what about cheryl in bromley and janice in enfield? jagjit is still with us as well, professorjagjit chadha, former bank of england adviser, giving us some good advice this morning. cheryl, hi. hello. 1 morning. cheryl, hi. hellm— morning. cheryl, hi. hello. ., ~ . , hello. i will talk to janice first, because this _ hello. i will talk to janice first, because this is _ hello. i will talk to janice first, because this is an _ hello. i will talk to janice first, because this is an interesting l hello. i will talk to janice first, - because this is an interesting one. janice in enfield is a landlord. tell us more.— janice in enfield is a landlord. tell us more. , , g , tell us more. hi, yes. my husband and i are private _ tell us more. hi, yes. my husband and i are private landlords. - tell us more. hi, yes. my husband and i are private landlords. we - tell us more. hi, yes. my husband i and i are private landlords. we have two properties— and i are private landlords. we have two properties that _ and i are private landlords. we have two properties that we _ and i are private landlords. we have two properties that we have - and i are private landlords. we have two properties that we have had - two properties that we have had since _ two properties that we have had since the — two properties that we have had since the 1980s. _ two properties that we have had since the 1980s. the _ two properties that we have had since the 1980s. the idea - two properties that we have had since the 1980s. the idea was . two properties that we have had . since the 1980s. the idea was that our pension, — since the 1980s. the idea was that our pension, we _ since the 1980s. the idea was that our pension, we don't— since the 1980s. the idea was that our pension, we don't have - since the 1980s. the idea was that i our pension, we don't have anything

else, _ our pension, we don't have anything else, only— our pension, we don't have anything else, only small_ our pension, we don't have anything else, only small state _ our pension, we don't have anything else, only small state pensions. - our pension, we don't have anything else, only small state pensions. my| else, only small state pensions. my husband _ else, only small state pensions. my husband was— else, only small state pensions. my husband was self—employed - else, only small state pensions. my husband was self—employed for - else, only small state pensions. my husband was self—employed for a l else, only small state pensions. my| husband was self—employed for a lot of years _ husband was self—employed for a lot of years we — husband was self—employed for a lot of years. we have _ husband was self—employed for a lot of years. we have had _ husband was self—employed for a lot of years. we have had these - of years. we have had these properties. _ of years. we have had these properties. so— of years. we have had these properties, so we _ of years. we have had these properties, so we were - of years. we have had these - properties, so we were planning to sell this— properties, so we were planning to sell this year. _ properties, so we were planning to sell this year, because _ properties, so we were planning to sell this year, because we - properties, so we were planning to sell this year, because we are - properties, so we were planning toj sell this year, because we are both now in— sell this year, because we are both now in our— sell this year, because we are both now in our 70s— sell this year, because we are both now in our 70s and _ sell this year, because we are both now in our 70s and it _ sell this year, because we are both now in our 70s and it was - sell this year, because we are both now in our 70s and it was our- now in our 70s and it was our retirement _ now in our 70s and it was our retirement. unfortunately, i now in our 70s and it was ourl retirement. unfortunately, we now in our 70s and it was our- retirement. unfortunately, we can't, because _ retirement. unfortunately, we can't, because of— retirement. unfortunately, we can't, because of the — retirement. unfortunately, we can't, because of the interest _ retirement. unfortunately, we can't, because of the interest rates. - retirement. unfortunately, we can't, because of the interest rates. we . because of the interest rates. we can't _ because of the interest rates. we can't sell— because of the interest rates. we can't sell the _ because of the interest rates. we can't sell the houses. _ because of the interest rates. we can't sell the houses. nobody- can't sell the houses. nobody particularly _ can't sell the houses. nobody particularly wants— can't sell the houses. nobody particularly wants them - can't sell the houses. nobody. particularly wants them because can't sell the houses. nobody- particularly wants them because they can't get _ particularly wants them because they can't get mortgages _ particularly wants them because they can't get mortgages themselves. - particularly wants them because theyj can't get mortgages themselves. our tenants, _ can't get mortgages themselves. our tenants, we — can't get mortgages themselves. our tenants, we have _ can't get mortgages themselves. our tenants, we have always _ can't get mortgages themselves. our tenants, we have always been, - can't get mortgages themselves. our tenants, we have always been, i- can't get mortgages themselves. our| tenants, we have always been, i hope i'm tenants, we have always been, i hope in right _ tenants, we have always been, i hope in right in _ tenants, we have always been, i hope in right in saying. _ tenants, we have always been, i hope i'm right in saying, we _ tenants, we have always been, i hope i'm right in saying, we have _ tenants, we have always been, i hope i'm right in saying, we have always. i'm right in saying, we have always been _ i'm right in saying, we have always been good — i'm right in saying, we have always been good landlords. _ i'm right in saying, we have always been good landlords. we - i'm right in saying, we have always been good landlords. we have - i'm right in saying, we have always| been good landlords. we have kept our rents— been good landlords. we have kept our rents as — been good landlords. we have kept our rents as low _ been good landlords. we have kept our rents as low as _ been good landlords. we have kept our rents as low as we _ been good landlords. we have kept our rents as low as we possibly - our rents as low as we possibly coutd~ — our rents as low as we possibly coutd~ now. _ our rents as low as we possibly could. now, because _ our rents as low as we possibly could. now, because we - our rents as low as we possibly could. now, because we kept i our rents as low as we possibly . could. now, because we kept our rents— could. now, because we kept our rents are — could. now, because we kept our rents are low, _ could. now, because we kept our rents are low, our— could. now, because we kept our rents are low, our tenants - could. now, because we kept our rents are low, our tenants can't l could. now, because we kept our. rents are low, our tenants can't get anywhere _ rents are low, our tenants can't get anywhere else — rents are low, our tenants can't get anywhere else to _ rents are low, our tenants can't get anywhere else to rent, _ rents are low, our tenants can't get anywhere else to rent, because - rents are low, our tenants can't getl anywhere else to rent, because they would _ anywhere else to rent, because they would have — anywhere else to rent, because they would have to — anywhere else to rent, because they would have to pay— anywhere else to rent, because they would have to pay so _ anywhere else to rent, because they would have to pay so much - anywhere else to rent, because they would have to pay so much more - anywhere else to rent, because they would have to pay so much more to| would have to pay so much more to .et would have to pay so much more to get anything — would have to pay so much more to get anything equivalent _ would have to pay so much more to get anything equivalent to - would have to pay so much more to get anything equivalent to what - get anything equivalent to what they've — get anything equivalent to what they've got _ get anything equivalent to what they've got now _ get anything equivalent to what they've got now in _ get anything equivalent to what they've got now in our- get anything equivalent to what they've got now in our houses. i get anything equivalent to what . they've got now in our houses. so get anything equivalent to what - they've got now in our houses. so we have had _ they've got now in our houses. so we have had to _ they've got now in our houses. so we have had to make _ they've got now in our houses. so we have had to make the _ they've got now in our houses. so we have had to make the decision - they've got now in our houses. so we have had to make the decision to- have had to make the decision to keep— have had to make the decision to keep these — have had to make the decision to keep these houses _ have had to make the decision to keep these houses for— have had to make the decision to keep these houses for another. have had to make the decision to. keep these houses for another two years _ keep these houses for another two

years we — keep these houses for another two years. we could _ keep these houses for another two years. we could have _ keep these houses for another two years. we could have a _ keep these houses for another two years. we could have a fixed - keep these houses for another two years. we could have a fixed rate i years. we could have a fixed rate mortgage — years. we could have a fixed rate mortgage that _ years. we could have a fixed rate mortgage that ends _ years. we could have a fixed rate mortgage that ends this - years. we could have a fixed rate| mortgage that ends this october, unfortunately, _ mortgage that ends this october, unfortunately, so _ mortgage that ends this october, unfortunately, so obviously, - mortgage that ends this october, | unfortunately, so obviously, when mortgage that ends this october, - unfortunately, so obviously, when we remortgage. — unfortunately, so obviously, when we remortgage. we — unfortunately, so obviously, when we remortgage, we have _ unfortunately, so obviously, when we remortgage, we have already- unfortunately, so obviously, when we remortgage, we have already made . remortgage, we have already made inguiries. _ remortgage, we have already made inquiries. and — remortgage, we have already made inquiries. and our— remortgage, we have already made inquiries, and our rents— remortgage, we have already made inquiries, and our rents will- remortgage, we have already made inquiries, and our rents will have i inquiries, and our rents will have to go— inquiries, and our rents will have to go up— inquiries, and our rents will have to go up on— inquiries, and our rents will have to go up on each— inquiries, and our rents will have to go up on each property- inquiries, and our rents will have to go up on each property at - inquiries, and our rents will have l to go up on each property at least £600 _ to go up on each property at least £600 a _ to go up on each property at least £600 a month— to go up on each property at least £600 a month to _ to go up on each property at least £600 a month to cope _ to go up on each property at least £600 a month to cope with - to go up on each property at least £600 a month to cope with it. - to go up on each property at leasti £600 a month to cope with it. oh, to go up on each property at least £600 a month to cope with it. oh, my roodness! £600 a month to cope with it. oh, my goodness! i— £600 a month to cope with it. oh, my goodness! i know. _ £600 a month to cope with it. oh, my goodness! i know. in _ £600 a month to cope with it. oh, my goodness! i know. in a _ £600 a month to cope with it. oh, my goodness! i know. in a way, _ £600 a month to cope with it. oh, my goodness! i know. in a way, because i goodness! i know. in a way, because we ke -t goodness! i know. in a way, because we kept the — goodness! i know. in a way, because we kept the rents _ goodness! i know. in a way, because we kept the rents tomorrow, - goodness! i know. in a way, because we kept the rents tomorrow, doing i we kept the rents tomorrow, doing them. _ we kept the rents tomorrow, doing them. you — we kept the rents tomorrow, doing them. you know. _ we kept the rents tomorrow, doing them, you know, both— we kept the rents tomorrow, doing them, you know, both our- we kept the rents tomorrow, doing them, you know, both our tenants| them, you know, both our tenants have _ them, you know, both our tenants have lived — them, you know, both our tenants have lived in— them, you know, both our tenants have lived in our— them, you know, both our tenants have lived in our houses _ them, you know, both our tenants have lived in our houses long - them, you know, both our tenantsl have lived in our houses long term. one has— have lived in our houses long term. one has been— have lived in our houses long term. one has been there _ have lived in our houses long term. one has been there 20 _ have lived in our houses long term. one has been there 20 years, - have lived in our houses long term. one has been there 20 years, the l one has been there 20 years, the other— one has been there 20 years, the other ten — one has been there 20 years, the otherten~ for— one has been there 20 years, the other ten. for them, _ one has been there 20 years, the otherten. forthem, they- one has been there 20 years, the other ten. for them, they have i one has been there 20 years, the. other ten. for them, they have got used _ other ten. for them, they have got used to— other ten. for them, they have got used to the — other ten. for them, they have got used to the low— other ten. for them, they have got used to the low rent, _ other ten. for them, they have got used to the low rent, so— other ten. for them, they have got used to the low rent, so now, - other ten. for them, they have got used to the low rent, so now, it. other ten. for them, they have got used to the low rent, so now, it isi used to the low rent, so now, it is going _ used to the low rent, so now, it is going to _ used to the low rent, so now, it is going to be — used to the low rent, so now, it is going to be a _ used to the low rent, so now, it is going to be a massive, _ used to the low rent, so now, it is going to be a massive, massive . used to the low rent, so now, it is- going to be a massive, massive shock to them _ going to be a massive, massive shock to them but — going to be a massive, massive shock to them. but having _ going to be a massive, massive shock to them. but having said _ going to be a massive, massive shock to them. but having said that, - going to be a massive, massive shock to them. but having said that, when. to them. but having said that, when we spoke _ to them. but having said that, when we spoke to— to them. but having said that, when we spoke to them, _ to them. but having said that, when we spoke to them, they— to them. but having said that, when we spoke to them, they both - to them. but having said that, whenl we spoke to them, they both looked, and they— we spoke to them, they both looked, and they can't — we spoke to them, they both looked, and they can't find _ we spoke to them, they both looked, and they can't find anything - we spoke to them, they both looked, and they can't find anything else - and they can't find anything else comparable _ and they can't find anything else comparable at _ and they can't find anything else comparable at a _ and they can't find anything else comparable at a rent _ and they can't find anything else comparable at a rent that - and they can't find anything else comparable at a rent that we - and they can't find anything else l comparable at a rent that we need and they can't find anything else - comparable at a rent that we need to charge _ comparable at a rent that we need to charge them — comparable at a rent that we need to charge them so _ comparable at a rent that we need to charge them. so we _ comparable at a rent that we need to charge them. so we have _ comparable at a rent that we need to charge them. so we have said, - comparable at a rent that we need to charge them. so we have said, ok, i comparable at a rent that we need to i charge them. so we have said, ok, we will keep— charge them. so we have said, ok, we will keep them — charge them. so we have said, ok, we will keep them both _ charge them. so we have said, ok, we will keep them both and _ charge them. so we have said, ok, we will keep them both and do _ charge them. so we have said, ok, we will keep them both and do another. will keep them both and do another fixed rate _ will keep them both and do another fixed rate mortgage _ will keep them both and do another fixed rate mortgage for—

will keep them both and do another fixed rate mortgage for two - will keep them both and do another fixed rate mortgage for two years, i fixed rate mortgage for two years, .ive fixed rate mortgage for two years, give them — fixed rate mortgage for two years, give them another— fixed rate mortgage for two years, give them another two _ fixed rate mortgage for two years, give them another two years, - fixed rate mortgage for two years, give them another two years, andl give them another two years, and they have — give them another two years, and they have both— give them another two years, and they have both agreed _ give them another two years, and they have both agreed to - give them another two years, and they have both agreed to pay - give them another two years, and they have both agreed to pay the | they have both agreed to pay the higher— they have both agreed to pay the higher rent. _ they have both agreed to pay the higher rent, because _ they have both agreed to pay the higher rent, because they- they have both agreed to pay the higher rent, because they wouldl they have both agreed to pay the - higher rent, because they would have to pay— higher rent, because they would have to pay it _ higher rent, because they would have to pay it wherever _ higher rent, because they would have to pay it wherever they— higher rent, because they would have to pay it wherever they went. - higher rent, because they would have to pay it wherever they went. in - to pay it wherever they went. in fact. _ to pay it wherever they went. in fact. they— to pay it wherever they went. in fact, they would _ to pay it wherever they went. in fact, they would have _ to pay it wherever they went. in fact, they would have to - to pay it wherever they went. in fact, they would have to pay - to pay it wherever they went. in i fact, they would have to pay more. but for _ fact, they would have to pay more. but for us. — fact, they would have to pay more. but for us. in— fact, they would have to pay more. but for us, in two _ fact, they would have to pay more. but for us, in two years' _ fact, they would have to pay more. but for us, in two years' time, - fact, they would have to pay more. but for us, in two years' time, we i but for us, in two years' time, we will be _ but for us, in two years' time, we will be both— but for us, in two years' time, we will be both in— but for us, in two years' time, we will be both in our— but for us, in two years' time, we will be both in our late _ but for us, in two years' time, we will be both in our late 70s. - but for us, in two years' time, we will be both in our late 70s. i- will be both in our late 70s. i wanted — will be both in our late 70s. i wanted to— will be both in our late 70s. i wanted to retire. _ will be both in our late 70s. i wanted to retire. this - will be both in our late 70s. i wanted to retire. this was i will be both in our late 70s. i wanted to retire. this was it, will be both in our late 70s. i- wanted to retire. this was it, our retirement! _ wanted to retire. this was it, our retirement! we _ wanted to retire. this was it, our retirement! we wanted - wanted to retire. this was it, our retirement! we wanted that - wanted to retire. this was it, our retirement! we wanted that this| retirement! we wanted that this year. _ retirement! we wanted that this year. but — retirement! we wanted that this year. but we _ retirement! we wanted that this year, but we can't _ retirement! we wanted that this year, but we can't do _ retirement! we wanted that this year, but we can't do it. - retirement! we wanted that this year, but we can't do it. we - retirement! we wanted that thisl year, but we can't do it. we can't put them — year, but we can't do it. we can't put them on _ year, but we can't do it. we can't put them on the _ year, but we can't do it. we can't put them on the street, - year, but we can't do it. we can't put them on the street, and - year, but we can't do it. we can't put them on the street, and we i year, but we can't do it. we can't - put them on the street, and we can't find any— put them on the street, and we can't find any other— put them on the street, and we can't find any other way— put them on the street, and we can't find any other way around _ put them on the street, and we can't find any other way around this. - find any other way around this. we're — find any other way around this. we're just— find any other way around this. we're just hoping _ find any other way around this. we're just hoping that - find any other way around this. we're just hoping that the - find any other way around this. - we're just hoping that the estimates we have _ we're just hoping that the estimates we have got— we're just hoping that the estimates we have got to — we're just hoping that the estimates we have got to what _ we're just hoping that the estimates we have got to what our _ we're just hoping that the estimates we have got to what our mortgage . we're just hoping that the estimatesl we have got to what our mortgage be in october— we have got to what our mortgage be in october will — we have got to what our mortgage be in october will be _ we have got to what our mortgage be in october will be covered _ we have got to what our mortgage be in october will be covered by- we have got to what our mortgage be in october will be covered by the - in october will be covered by the rent that— in october will be covered by the rent that we _ in october will be covered by the rent that we have _ in october will be covered by the rent that we have agreed - in october will be covered by the rent that we have agreed with i in october will be covered by the i rent that we have agreed with them now _ rent that we have agreed with them now but _ rent that we have agreed with them now but if— rent that we have agreed with them now but if the _ rent that we have agreed with them now. but if the interest— rent that we have agreed with them now. but if the interest rate - rent that we have agreed with them now. but if the interest rate goes . now. but if the interest rate goes up now. but if the interest rate goes up again— now. but if the interest rate goes up again this _ now. but if the interest rate goes up again this week, _ now. but if the interest rate goes up again this week, i— now. but if the interest rate goes up again this week, i don't - now. but if the interest rate goes up again this week, i don't know. j now. but if the interest rate goesl up again this week, i don't know. i don't _ up again this week, idon't know. i don't know— up again this week, i don't know. i don't know where _ up again this week, i don't know. i don't know where we _ up again this week, idon't know. i don't know where we will- up again this week, i don't know. i don't know where we will be. - up again this week, i don't know. i don't know where we will be. we i don't know where we will be. we can't _ don't know where we will be. we can't go — don't know where we will be. we can't go back— don't know where we will be. we can't go back and _ don't know where we will be. we can't go back and what _ don't know where we will be. we can't go back and what we - don't know where we will be. we can't go back and what we have i can't go back and what we have promised — can't go back and what we have promised them, _ can't go back and what we have promised them, but _ can't go back and what we have promised them, but i _ can't go back and what we have promised them, but i don't - can't go back and what we have i promised them, but i don't know can't go back and what we have - promised them, but i don't know how that will— promised them, but i don't know how that will affect — promised them, but i don't know how that will affect us. _ that will affect us. thank— that will affect us. thank you - that will affect us. thank you so - that will affect us. i thank you so much, that will affect us. - thank you so much, and that will affect us. _ thank you so much, and cheryl, how is this... where are you with this? when you see where am i with all

this at— when you see where am i with all this at the — when you see where am i with all this at the moment, _ when you see where am i with all this at the moment, in _ when you see where am i with all this at the moment, in terms - when you see where am i with all this at the moment, in terms of i this at the moment, in terms of trying _ this at the moment, in terms of trying to— this at the moment, in terms of trying to buy— this at the moment, in terms of trying to buy somewhere, - this at the moment, in terms of trying to buy somewhere, or... i this at the moment, in terms of. trying to buy somewhere, or... ? just _ trying to buy somewhere, or... ? just in _ trying to buy somewhere, or... ? just in terms _ trying to buy somewhere, or... ? just in terms of— trying to buy somewhere, or... ? just in terms of your— trying to buy somewhere, or... ? just in terms of your take, - trying to buy somewhere, or... ? just in terms of your take, as- trying to buy somewhere, or... ?| just in terms of your take, as they put it, and whether you can afford this rate rise, how it will affect you? for me, at the moment, i�*m not for me, at the moment, i'm not impacted. — for me, at the moment, i'm not impacted, because i am living at my parents' _ impacted, because i am living at my parents' now. i have got the wrong cheryl! 0h! oh! hence 0h! hence the on — hence the confusion. laughter we have got a surplus of cheryls! that is always great. cheryl in nottingham, hi. hi. , ., ., ., hi. yes, we have got the right one now. can hi. yes, we have got the right one now- can you _ hi. yes, we have got the right one now. can you afford _ hi. yes, we have got the right one now. can you afford this _ hi. yes, we have got the right one now. can you afford this rate - hi. yes, we have got the right onej now. can you afford this rate rise? how will it affect you?— how will it affect you? know, it will affect _ how will it affect you? know, it will affect me _ how will it affect you? know, it will affect me dramatically. - how will it affect you? know, it i will affect me dramatically. when how will it affect you? know, it - will affect me dramatically. when i started out with covid, my mortgage was £256. today, it is £465. i gave

up my was £256. today, it is £465. i gave up myjob because i was not very well, and they wanted to go overseas and start a new career —— i wanted to go overseas. and i had that chance, but i changed my mind because i found two kids that needed a home, and i have these two kids in my house. now i am looking at it thinking, i can�*t afford to stay in england. you know, and i don�*t want to give up these children, because they have nowhere to live. what does they have nowhere to live. what does the government want from us? homeowners are struggling and renters are struggling, and there is no houses for you to rent anyway. so what does he want? we are not getting an increase in pay, and we are not getting a good mortgage rate to keep our home. what is going to happen? and what happens to people who are younger than me key? because i am 55. people younger than me who

want a home and cannot afford one. i want a home and cannot afford one. i tell you what i'm going to do. i tell you what i�*m going to do. i will bring in another expert, because thatis that is exactly what we need on a day like this, expertise. financial adviser emmanuel asuquo has been listening to this. yes, i have been listening. this is really worrying — yes, i have been listening. this is really worrying for _ yes, i have been listening. this is really worrying for people, - yes, i have been listening. this is really worrying for people, all- really worrying for people, all sorts of different angles here. you are a financial adviser, not a prognosticator, but where do you think we will be in a year? filth. prognosticator, but where do you think we will be in a year? oh, my goodness — think we will be in a year? oh, my goodness the _ think we will be in a year? oh, my goodness. the honest _ think we will be in a year? oh, my goodness. the honest truth - think we will be in a year? oh, my goodness. the honest truth is, - think we will be in a year? oh, my goodness. the honest truth is, i i goodness. the honest truth is, i don�*t think we will be in any better place than we are right now. interest rates look like they will continue to go up. we�*re not seeing cuts that they are saying. even with this whole inflation coming down, for a lot of the people that i see, especially people on lower incomes, inflation is at a much higher rate than they are announcing anyway. then we have got young people who

have this dream and hope of being able to purchase or buy. they are having those dreams dashed. i am having those dreams dashed. i am having more and more students who are now having to move back into their parents�* home even while studying. now people are saying, cannot even afford to go away for university? these are life decisions that for a lot of us, we took for granted, that another generation just does not have the option is to do so. and then, when we look at labour and working and paying, it is just not the same. i feel like it is not going to get any better any time soon and we still haven�*t seen the real effects of brexit country yet on what that is going to look like. so i feel we have... how will that change anything? just in regards to, we are on an island, and literally on our own, so as hard a time of the world is facing, we do not have the support of europe to kind of push us and help us and kind of work together, you know? there is that saying, you are stronger together. we have

decided to do this alone, and so it is going to be much harderfor us. interest rates only problem all over the continent.— the continent. yes, but interest rates affect _ the continent. yes, but interest rates affect food, _ the continent. yes, but interest rates affect food, which - the continent. yes, but interest rates affect food, which is - the continent. yes, but interest| rates affect food, which is trade. wages, jobs. so we have all of these things. when we talk about our economy, our economy, interest rates arejust economy, our economy, interest rates are just one part. economy, our economy, interest rates arejust one part. we economy, our economy, interest rates are just one part. we talk about the fact that the economy is not running as it was before, and how hard it is even as business owners to hire. we have a lot of different tissues, and a lot of that has to do with where the economy is at. so this interest rate rises one thing the bank of england are trying to do to bring down inflation, but there are a lot of other factors to it. immanuel, good to have you. and jagiit immanuel, good to have you. and jagjit chadha, can i come back to you? what effect did the liz truss interregnum have, if anything, now we over that now? in the short term, the effect was to

very sharply increase long—term interest rates which affected the availability of mortgages and added availability of mortgages and added a further downward momentum to the housing market, and embroiled many of the families we are hearing about today. it was a very distressing end today. it was a very distressing end to last year for many families, as they worried that interest rates might go as high as 6%. so what we had was a response from the government for some stability in finances, and just focusing on the inflation problem. i think we are over most of it, but as a result, i think the bank is cautious about raising interest rates too far, and what we would like to see pretty soon now is a signal that they are at a peak, and will not go any further, which i think will give some comfort, perhaps not great comfort, to some of the people we have heard this morning, that they are about as high as they will go in this particular cycle. tbs, are about as high as they will go in this particular cycle.— this particular cycle. a crumb of comfort. hello, _ this particular cycle. a crumb of comfort. hello, jennifer, - this particular cycle. a crumb of comfort. hello, jennifer, on - this particular cycle. a crumb ofj comfort. hello, jennifer, on the isle of man. that morning. is it a good morning or not? it is not too bad! we are managing.

the baby— it is not too bad! we are managing. the baby is— it is not too bad! we are managing. the baby is asleep. the baby is asleep, excellent! how did you sleep last night? pretty good, actually. it is a good baby. _ pretty good, actually. it is a good baby, which makes a difference. what _ baby, which makes a difference. what about this interest rate rise? your perspective? we renewed our mortgage two weeks a-o, we renewed our mortgage two weeks ago. which _ we renewed our mortgage two weeks ago, which we were dreading. keeping an eye _ ago, which we were dreading. keeping an eye on _ ago, which we were dreading. keeping an eye on the interest rates, going up an eye on the interest rates, going up and _ an eye on the interest rates, going up and up — an eye on the interest rates, going up and up. when we renewed it, the best offer— up and up. when we renewed it, the best offer we could get was another two-year— best offer we could get was another two—year fixed rate, and our mortgage _ two—year fixed rate, and our mortgage went up by 52%. 52%?! — mortgage went up by 52%. 52%?! can i have some numbers? yes, we were paying about £725 a month _ yes, we were paying about £725 a month we — yes, we were paying about £725 a month. we were quite lucky that we bought— month. we were quite lucky that we bought our— month. we were quite lucky that we bought our propertyjust before the pandemic — bought our propertyjust before the pandemic. we got quite a good deal. our house _ pandemic. we got quite a good deal. our house value went up, which meant our ratio _ our house value went up, which meant our ratio was _ our house value went up, which meant our ratio was good, and then our mortgage — our ratio was good, and then our mortgage was pretty affordable, £725

a month. _ mortgage was pretty affordable, £725 a month, and we could manage it. it is now— a month, and we could manage it. it is now going — a month, and we could manage it. it is now going to go up to £1120 a month — is now going to go up to £1120 a month. lt— is now going to go up to £1120 a month. . ~ is now going to go up to £1120 a month. , ~ ., ., . month. it is like getting a finance deal for a top _ month. it is like getting a finance deal for a top of _ month. it is like getting a finance deal for a top of the _ month. it is like getting a finance deal for a top of the range - month. it is like getting a finance deal for a top of the range car. i deal for a top of the range car. essentially, yes. we havejust had a essentially, yes. we have just had a second _ essentially, yes. we have just had a second baby. at the time, we thought we could manage _ at the time, we thought we could manage a — at the time, we thought we could manage a second baby. at this stage, we are _ manage a second baby. at this stage, we are not— manage a second baby. at this stage, we are not sure how we are going to manage _ we are not sure how we are going to manage i_ we are not sure how we are going to manage. i will have to get back to manage. ! will have to get back to work— manage. ! will have to get back to work earlier— manage. i will have to get back to work earlier than i wanted. maternity pay is not going to cut it. maternity pay is not going to cut it we _ maternity pay is not going to cut it we also — maternity pay is not going to cut it. we also have a three—year—old, so we _ it. we also have a three—year—old, so we are — it. we also have a three—year—old, so we are paying child care costs, which _ so we are paying child care costs, which of — so we are paying child care costs, which of course have skyrocketed with everything else. don't know how we are _ with everything else. don't know how we are going to manage.— with everything else. don't know how we are going to manage. emanuel, all sorts of adjustments _ we are going to manage. emanuel, all sorts of adjustments being _ we are going to manage. emanuel, all sorts of adjustments being made - we are going to manage. emanuel, all sorts of adjustments being made in i sorts of adjustments being made in people�*s lives because of this. it

is having a massive impact. it�*s is having a massive impact. it's havin: a is having a massive impact. it�*s having a huge impact. these are decisions that people are making every day. people can�*t go on holiday. maybe people have saved for their kids. i�*m hearing about parents having to take their kids out of gymnastics. these are the things that have to be sacrificed to survive. ., ,,., _, things that have to be sacrificed to survive. ., , _, . ,, survive. professor, come back in with some _ survive. professor, come back in with some professorial _ survive. professor, come back in with some professorial stuff - survive. professor, come back in with some professorial stuff for l survive. professor, come back in i with some professorial stuff for us. we move back to the speaking interest— we move back to the speaking interest rates, which has affected many _ interest rates, which has affected many households in troubling manner. so if the _ many households in troubling manner. so if the bank can signal that this is a peak. — so if the bank can signal that this is a peak, people can budget accordingly. but we have two problems. the level of savings for many— problems. the level of savings for many households is being driven to nearly— many households is being driven to nearly zero — many households is being driven to nearly zero as a result of covid and

the cost _ nearly zero as a result of covid and the cost of — nearly zero as a result of covid and the cost of living crisis. there are many _ the cost of living crisis. there are many households with lots of savings _ many households with lots of savings. we have seen this increase in inequality— savings. we have seen this increase in inequality in access to savings or built — in inequality in access to savings or built up — in inequality in access to savings or built up savings. one way around this is— or built up savings. one way around this is for— or built up savings. one way around this is for the — or built up savings. one way around this is for the banking system to be clear about — this is for the banking system to be clear about the forbearance that is available — clear about the forbearance that is available. we just had one possible story -- _ available. we just had one possible story -- one — available. we just had one possible story —— one positive story from a person _ story —— one positive story from a person who. _ story —— one positive story from a person who, as a result of low interest— person who, as a result of low interest rates, has seen their house value _ interest rates, has seen their house value go— interest rates, has seen their house value go up. — interest rates, has seen their house value go up, meaning they can find further— value go up, meaning they can find further borrowing if they need it to allow _ further borrowing if they need it to allow them to deal with shocks that may come — allow them to deal with shocks that may come along to their household finances~ _ may come along to their household finances. the banks are in a position— finances. the banks are in a position to do that, be much clearer to talk— position to do that, be much clearer to talk to _ position to do that, be much clearer to talk to anyone they have lent money — to talk to anyone they have lent money to — to talk to anyone they have lent money to and say, we can extend your mortgage _ money to and say, we can extend your mortgage or— money to and say, we can extend your mortgage or take a mortgage holiday that doesn't affect you in the longer— that doesn't affect you in the longer run. it's not clear that everybody knows those facilities are available _ everybody knows those facilities are available. we had announcements about— available. we had announcements about forbearance during covid. with this changing regime, the change

from _ this changing regime, the change from understanding that interest rates _ from understanding that interest rates would be low for a long time to something i would consider to be normal. _ to something i would consider to be normal. to— to something i would consider to be normal, to help that process, the banks— normal, to help that process, the banks and — normal, to help that process, the banks and lenders could do more. | banks and lenders could do more. i know banks and lenders could do more. know you banks and lenders could do more. i know you have got to go, but give me 30 seconds on this. what effect will this have on pensions and savings? say you are lucky enough to have £50,000 annual savings. what is your payback on that now? if the £50,000 annual savings. what is your payback on that now?— payback on that now? if the interest rate on your — payback on that now? if the interest rate on your deposit _ payback on that now? if the interest rate on your deposit goes _ payback on that now? if the interest rate on your deposit goes up - payback on that now? if the interest rate on your deposit goes up in - payback on that now? if the interest rate on your deposit goes up in line | rate on your deposit goes up in line with the _ rate on your deposit goes up in line with the bank rate, you are going from _ with the bank rate, you are going from getting back nothing to 4% or more _ from getting back nothing to 4% or more on _ from getting back nothing to 4% or more on your savings. for the example — more on your savings. for the example you have given, that would be £2000 _ example you have given, that would be £2000 a year of income from that. if, be £2000 a year of income from that. if. as _ be £2000 a year of income from that. if. as an— be £2000 a year of income from that. if, as an economy, we started saving more _ if, as an economy, we started saving more rather— if, as an economy, we started saving more rather than consuming, that is

a difficult _ more rather than consuming, that is a difficult thing to say when large numbers— a difficult thing to say when large numbers of households don't have any spare _ numbers of households don't have any spare cash— numbers of households don't have any spare cash to save, but in the longer— spare cash to save, but in the longer run. _ spare cash to save, but in the longer run, that is better for the economy — longer run, that is better for the econom . . ~' longer run, that is better for the econom . . ~ , ., longer run, that is better for the economy-— economy. thank you very much, jaa'it. economy. thank you very much, jagiit- can _ economy. thank you very much, jagiit- can you — economy. thank you very much, jagjit. can you afford _ economy. thank you very much, jagjit. can you afford this - economy. thank you very much, jagjit. can you afford this rates i jagjit. can you afford this rates rise? it is expected to come and you will hear about it and see it at midday. now it is 10.35. giuliano casadei has the 5 live news. transpennine express will be nationalised after customer complaints about poor service and cancelled trains. the government will now run the service, which covers manchester and liverpool in the north of england, and runs to edinburgh and glasgow in scotland. the number of people in england waiting to start routine hospital treatment has risen to a new record high. figures just out show an estimated

7.3 million people were waiting to start treatment at the end of march — up from 7.2 million in february. the bank of england is widely expected to raise interest rates for the 12th time in a row, as it tries to reduce inflation. analysts think the rate will rise by a quarter of a percentage point to 4.5%. ukraine�*s president says his country needs more time to launch a much—anticipated counter—offensive against russian forces. volodymyr zelensky says they�*re waiting for more military hardware to be delivered. katie smith has the sport. "sometimes west ham breaks your heart", says sporting director mark noble, "but there are times it brings you tears ofjoy". well, that�*s what manager david moyes hopes will be the outcome tonight — he says they�*re playing some of their best stuff as they head into tonight�*s europa conference league semi—final first leg at home to az alkmaar. the club hasn�*t won silverware since 1980. former england goalkeeper carly telford says lionesses boss sarina wiegman will make a "sensible" decision on whether to take striker beth mead

to the world cup injuly, saying the longevity of her career should be the priority. mead�*s racing to be fit from a long term acl injury and suggested yesterday she�*s ahead of schedule. andy murray will make a decision over the next few days about whether to play in the french open, which starts later this month. he was knocked out in the first round of the italian open yesterday. the madrid open organisers have apologised to players and fans for what they call the "unacceptable decision" to not allow the women�*s doubles finalists to make presentation speeches after the match as is customary. jessica pegula, who was in the losing pair questioned which century the organisers were living in after it happened.

we are hearing from you about how this interest rate rise, expected to go to 4.5% at midday, how it is going to affect you in all sorts of ways, sometimes positive but mainly negative. emmanuel asuquo, your phone must be ringing off the hook. it is nonstop. even people who have money invested, the markets are down. those with property portfolios, they are struggling with the interest rate rise, so it is hard for a lot of people and they are seeking advice.— hard for a lot of people and they are seeking advice. ringing off the hook, are seeking advice. ringing off the book. that's _ are seeking advice. ringing off the hook, that's an _ are seeking advice. ringing off the hook, that's an old-fashioned - hook, that�*s an old—fashioned expression! let�*s see who we have

got now. we have gotjoanne in gateshead and car in lincoln and mark in portsmouth. marx, go for it. we are in a two bed house, my wife and l _ we are in a two bed house, my wife and k we— we are in a two bed house, my wife and i. we love the house, but since we bought— and i. we love the house, but since we bought it — and i. we love the house, but since we bought it 12 years ago, we have been _ we bought it 12 years ago, we have been lucky— we bought it 12 years ago, we have been lucky enough to have two beautiful — been lucky enough to have two beautiful children, one of each. but now we _ beautiful children, one of each. but now we are — beautiful children, one of each. but now we are sleeping in the lounge on a sofa _ now we are sleeping in the lounge on a sofa bed. _ now we are sleeping in the lounge on a sofa bed, my wife and i. we desperately want to move, but because — desperately want to move, but because we want to stay in the area, there _ because we want to stay in the area, there is— because we want to stay in the area, there is a _ because we want to stay in the area, there is a shortage of stock. so we went— there is a shortage of stock. so we went on— there is a shortage of stock. so we went on a — there is a shortage of stock. so we went on a tracker rate. subsequently, the mortgage has gone up subsequently, the mortgage has gone up by £140 in the last year and we are struggling just to live in the two bed — are struggling just to live in the two bed that we want to sell. i'm .lad two bed that we want to sell. i'm glad we — two bed that we want to sell. i'm glad we went on the tracker rate, but i _ glad we went on the tracker rate, but i feel— glad we went on the tracker rate, but i feel sorry for people who are on the _

but i feel sorry for people who are on the variable rate because they have _ on the variable rate because they have been— on the variable rate because they have been hit hard. we need maybe a buy-back— have been hit hard. we need maybe a buy— back initiative, have been hit hard. we need maybe a buy—back initiative, like have been hit hard. we need maybe a buy— back initiative, like the reverse _ buy— back initiative, like the reverse of what thatcher did. maybe the council _ reverse of what thatcher did. maybe the council could buy houses off people — the council could buy houses off people to — the council could buy houses off people to free up some capital, and they could _ people to free up some capital, and they could offer a cheaper rent than private~ _ they could offer a cheaper rent than private. that would be a way of getting — private. that would be a way of getting some stock back. and i'm sorry. _ getting some stock back. and i'm sorry. but— getting some stock back. and i'm sorry. but i— getting some stock back. and i'm sorry, but i think prices need to come _ sorry, but i think prices need to come down. sorry, but i think prices need to come down-— sorry, but i think prices need to come down. . ., , , . ., come down. that will not be music to the ears of — come down. that will not be music to the ears of a — come down. that will not be music to the ears of a lot _ come down. that will not be music to the ears of a lot of— come down. that will not be music to the ears of a lot of people _ come down. that will not be music to the ears of a lot of people who - come down. that will not be music to the ears of a lot of people who say, i the ears of a lot of people who say, this is my retirement. i the ears of a lot of people who say, this is my retirement.— this is my retirement. i appreciate that, but this is my retirement. i appreciate that. but we _ this is my retirement. i appreciate that, but we bought _ this is my retirement. i appreciate that, but we bought a _ this is my retirement. i appreciate that, but we bought a house - this is my retirement. i appreciate that, but we bought a house to i this is my retirement. i appreciate l that, but we bought a house to have as a home — that, but we bought a house to have as a home. we are lucky, because we bought— as a home. we are lucky, because we bought it _ as a home. we are lucky, because we bought it 12_ as a home. we are lucky, because we bought it 12 years ago, so even if it came _ bought it 12 years ago, so even if it came down by a considerable amount. — it came down by a considerable amount, we wouldn't have negative eguity~ _ amount, we wouldn't have negative eguity~ it's— amount, we wouldn't have negative equity. it'sjust an idea. if the council—

equity. it'sjust an idea. if the council said to us, we will buy your house. _ council said to us, we will buy your house. we — council said to us, we will buy your house, we can then build the extension— house, we can then build the extension we need and stay in the house _ extension we need and stay in the house we — extension we need and stay in the house we love with reduced rent. just for— house we love with reduced rent. just for people that want to do it. and the _ just for people that want to do it. and the market would start being sensible — and the market would start being sensible. these price rises, it is all right— sensible. these price rises, it is all right saying we had high rates in the _ all right saying we had high rates in the '80s, but we didn't have these — in the '80s, but we didn't have these ridiculous prices that we have .ot these ridiculous prices that we have got now _ these ridiculous prices that we have got now. why is it that we moan if a loaf of— got now. why is it that we moan if a loaf of bread — got now. why is it that we moan if a loaf of bread goes up by 20p in five years. _ loaf of bread goes up by 20p in five years. but— loaf of bread goes up by 20p in five years, but we are happy to let houses. — years, but we are happy to let houses, by 30, 50, 100 grand in a year? _ houses, by 30, 50, 100 grand in a year? it— houses, by 30, 50, 100 grand in a year? it is— houses, by 30, 50, 100 grand in a year? it is ridiculous. it's all about— year? it is ridiculous. it's all about greed. they don't want to build _ about greed. they don't want to build council houses because they are so— build council houses because they are so scared that the bubble is going _ are so scared that the bubble is going to — are so scared that the bubble is going to burst and these banks will not be _ going to burst and these banks will not be making money instead of helping — not be making money instead of helping people out. we not be making money instead of helping people out.— not be making money instead of helping people out. we thought it would last forever, _ helping people out. we thought it

would last forever, didn't - helping people out. we thought it would last forever, didn't we? - would last forever, didn�*t we? exactly, but we need to get our priorities— exactly, but we need to get our priorities sorted. people need homes~ — priorities sorted. people need homes. . priorities sorted. people need homes. , ., ., homes. interesting idea about the bu -back. homes. interesting idea about the buy-back- that — homes. interesting idea about the buy-back. that says _ homes. interesting idea about the buy-back. that says that - homes. interesting idea about the buy-back. that says that it - homes. interesting idea about the buy-back. that says that it is - homes. interesting idea about the buy-back. that says that it is a . buy—back. that says that it is a desperate situation and there needs to be some profound thinking and helping people. to be some profound thinking and helping people-— to be some profound thinking and helping people. absolutely. there is a house next — helping people. absolutely. there is a house next door _ helping people. absolutely. there is a house next door to _ helping people. absolutely. there is a house next door to us. _ helping people. absolutely. there is a house next door to us. he - helping people. absolutely. there is a house next door to us. he is- helping people. absolutely. there is a house next door to us. he is local| a house next door to us. he is local authority. _ a house next door to us. he is local authority, and it's great. but it is the way— authority, and it's great. but it is the way the — authority, and it's great. but it is the way the market has gone. you pay stupid _ the way the market has gone. you pay stupid amounts to live somewhere that you _ stupid amounts to live somewhere that you like. i was raised in a council— that you like. i was raised in a council house and my mum and dad never— council house and my mum and dad never bought their house and it was great _ never bought their house and it was great my— never bought their house and it was great. my dad didn't have to worry about— great. my dad didn't have to worry about getting the boiler done, the roof done. — about getting the boiler done, the roof done, the windows done. we have

to spend _ roof done, the windows done. we have to spend money on an extension now for the _ to spend money on an extension now for the house. you know what i mean? and you _ for the house. you know what i mean? and you two _ for the house. you know what i mean? and you two are sleeping on the sofa? . ., , �* ,., , sofa? yeah. it doesn't bother us, ou do sofa? yeah. it doesn't bother us, you do anything _ sofa? yeah. it doesn't bother us, you do anything for— sofa? yeah. it doesn't bother us, you do anything for your - sofa? yeah. it doesn't bother us, you do anything for your kids. - sofa? yeah. it doesn't bother us, j you do anything for your kids. we could _ you do anything for your kids. we could split — you do anything for your kids. we could split the rim in half because we have _ could split the rim in half because we have got two double rooms. but i have a _ we have got two double rooms. but i have a 12—year—old daughter and a five—year—old son and we don't want to do— five—year—old son and we don't want to do that _ five—year—old son and we don't want to do that. we want them to have their— to do that. we want them to have their own — to do that. we want them to have their own space. sol to do that. we want them to have their own space. so i think we are going _ their own space. so i think we are going to _ their own space. so i think we are going to have to remortgage if we can, going to have to remortgage if we can. and — going to have to remortgage if we can, and extend. because we are fussy. _ can, and extend. because we are fussy. we — can, and extend. because we are fussy, we want our daughter to be able to— fussy, we want our daughter to be able to walk to school. portsmouth is densely — able to walk to school. portsmouth is densely populated and they are not building anything in the city. there _ not building anything in the city. there is— not building anything in the city. there is no— not building anything in the city. there is no where to build it. and with our there is no where to build it. sixth. with your 12—year—old daughter, there is no where to build it. a"ic with your 12—year—old daughter, it will seem like in a week�*s time, she would be 14 as well. joanne in

gateshead, how is this going to affect you? it�*s gateshead, how is this going to affect you?— gateshead, how is this going to affect ou? �*, , ., ., affect you? it's 'ust another blow. i assume affect you? it'sjust another blow. i assume halifax _ affect you? it'sjust another blow. i assume halifax will _ affect you? it'sjust another blow. i assume halifax will send - affect you? it'sjust another blow. i assume halifax will send the - i assume halifax will send the letter — i assume halifax will send the letter out this friday or next friday _ letter out this friday or next friday. it'sjust a constant letter out this friday or next friday. it's just a constant worry. i'm friday. it's just a constant worry. l'm going — friday. it's just a constant worry. l'm going to— friday. it's just a constant worry. i'm going to put the house up for sale. _ i'm going to put the house up for sale. but — i'm going to put the house up for sale, but the pressure is on to get it up— sale, but the pressure is on to get it up and _ sale, but the pressure is on to get it up and then will i be able to afford — it up and then will i be able to afford anything once it is sold? will i _ afford anything once it is sold? will i have to rent? it's been horrendous for the last year. emmanuel, is this going to bring property prices down because people will be desperate to sell? {toad will be desperate to sell? good ruestion. will be desperate to sell? good question- we — will be desperate to sell? good question. we have _ will be desperate to sell? good question. we have seen - will be desperate to sell? (limp. question. we have seen property prices go down. but i have a lot of clients and if you want to buy in an

area near a good school, they are bidding more. so when you hear announcements that prices are going down, the reality is that in the right area, demand down, the reality is that in the rightarea, demand is down, the reality is that in the right area, demand is still high. as long as there is more demand than supply. long as there is more demand than supply, the price will be up. we are seeing some press go down in areas, but whether demand is there, prices are staying the same or going up. but as you say, joanne, it is pretty bleak for people. find but as you say, joanne, it is pretty bleak for people.— bleak for people. and that doesn't hel me. bleak for people. and that doesn't help me- it _ bleak for people. and that doesn't help me- it is _ bleak for people. and that doesn't help me. it is fair— bleak for people. and that doesn't help me. it is fair enough - bleak for people. and that doesn't help me. it is fair enough that - bleak for people. and that doesn't help me. it is fair enough that my| help me. it is fair enough that my house _ help me. it is fair enough that my house isn't— help me. it is fair enough that my house isn't going to depreciate, but i house isn't going to depreciate, but i want _ house isn't going to depreciate, but i want to— house isn't going to depreciate, but i want to stay in the same area. i can't— i want to stay in the same area. i can't win. — i want to stay in the same area. i can't win, otherthan i want to stay in the same area. i can't win, other than go somewhere where _ can't win, other than go somewhere where there — can't win, other than go somewhere where there are cheaper housing, but this is— where there are cheaper housing, but this is where — where there are cheaper housing, but this is where my family is. my mum is in a _ this is where my family is. my mum is in a home — this is where my family is. my mum is in a home nearby. it isjust the

nightmare — is in a home nearby. it isjust the nightmare at the moment.- is in a home nearby. it isjust the nightmare at the moment. some news is 'ust nightmare at the moment. some news isjust coming — nightmare at the moment. some news isjust coming in- _ nightmare at the moment. some news isjust coming in. there _ nightmare at the moment. some news isjust coming in. there were - nightmare at the moment. some news isjust coming in. there were no - isjust coming in. there were no concerns about richard sharpe�*s integrity while he was bbc chairman. this is from a bbc review into conflict—of—interest. the review was commissioned after mr sharpe was caught up in that cronyism row involving boris johnson caught up in that cronyism row involving borisjohnson and the reported loan. you will remember he resigned last month. he will stay in post untiljune, by which time his successor will be found. more on this on the bbc news website and app throughout the day and on 5 live. carl, thanks for waiting. what is your struggle at the moment? everything at the minute. this time last year— everything at the minute. this time last year before, rates started going — last year before, rates started going up— last year before, rates started going up and the prices were going mad _

going up and the prices were going mad my— going up and the prices were going mad. my mortgage was £1800. —— my mortgage — mad. my mortgage was £1800. —— my mortgage was £800. now it is £1600. my electric— mortgage was £800. now it is £1600. my electric bill is £250 a month and i my electric bill is £250 a month and i still— my electric bill is £250 a month and i still owe _ my electric bill is £250 a month and i still owe them £800. i am on a decent _ i still owe them £800. i am on a decent wage and i am still struggling. several people on a lower— struggling. several people on a lower wage, struggling. several people on a lowerwage, i don't struggling. several people on a lower wage, i don't know how they are managing. we lower wage, i don't know how they are managing-— are managing. we hear that a lot. what are you _ are managing. we hear that a lot. what are you going _ are managing. we hear that a lot. what are you going to _ are managing. we hear that a lot. what are you going to do? - are managing. we hear that a lot. what are you going to do? i - are managing. we hear that a lot. what are you going to do? i don't| what are you going to do? i don't know. i could _ what are you going to do? i don't know. i could sell— what are you going to do? i don't know. i could sell the _ what are you going to do? i don't know. i could sell the house, - what are you going to do? i don't know. i could sell the house, but| what are you going to do? i don't i know. i could sell the house, but we bought— know. i could sell the house, but we bought it _ know. i could sell the house, but we bought it to— know. i could sell the house, but we bought it to live there and live out my retirement. i am 57, so i only have _ my retirement. i am 57, so i only have about — my retirement. i am 57, so i only have about ten years left before i can retire — have about ten years left before i can retire. we don't want to move, we like _ can retire. we don't want to move, we like the — can retire. we don't want to move, we like the area. i had a heart attack— we like the area. i had a heart attack a — we like the area. i had a heart attack a few years ago, so i changed myjob _ attack a few years ago, so i changed myjob so _ attack a few years ago, so i changed myjob so i — attack a few years ago, so i changed myjob so i don't do overtime or anything — myjob so i don't do overtime or anything like that. but i might have

to get— anything like that. but i might have to get a _ anything like that. but i might have to get a part—time job at the weekend _ to get a part—time job at the weekend to get extra money. to get a part-time job at the weekend to get extra money. thank ou, carl, weekend to get extra money. thank you. carl. all— weekend to get extra money. thank you. carl. all the — weekend to get extra money. thank you, carl, all the best. _ weekend to get extra money. thank you, carl, all the best. vincent i weekend to get extra money. thank you, carl, all the best. vincent is i you, carl, all the best. vincent is another landlord. what is the effect on you? i another landlord. what is the effect on ou? . , . , another landlord. what is the effect on ou? . , . on you? i am feeling the effects all around. on you? i am feeling the effects all around- me — on you? i am feeling the effects all around. me and _ on you? i am feeling the effects all around. me and my _ on you? i am feeling the effects all around. me and my wife _ on you? i am feeling the effects all around. me and my wife are - around. me and my wife are self—employed. we have young children— self—employed. we have young children and businesses with staff. so the _ children and businesses with staff. so the staff now want wage increases. we found people are spending — increases. we found people are spending less with us. our mortgage for a property on the isle of wight has increased dramatically. i was hoping _ has increased dramatically. ! was hoping to— has increased dramatically. i was hoping to pay it off, but now we are simply— hoping to pay it off, but now we are simply putting money aside for that daft, dismal day. there is no other product _ daft, dismal day. there is no other product out — daft, dismal day. there is no other product out there that we can move to a less _ product out there that we can move to a less it— product out there that we can move to a less it is— product out there that we can move to a less it is more expensive. and being _ to a less it is more expensive. and being self—employed, it is difficult. and i have investment property— difficult. and i have investment property in portsmouth. with some of

the properties, iwill property in portsmouth. with some of the properties, i will be property in portsmouth. with some of the properties, iwill be moving into considerable deficit. i am paying — into considerable deficit. i am paying for people to live in my properties. you can'tjust knock a door— properties. you can'tjust knock a door and — properties. you can'tjust knock a door and say, your rent is going up. it's door and say, your rent is going up. it's not _ door and say, your rent is going up. it's not legal. — door and say, your rent is going up. it's not legal, it's not right, it's not simple _ it's not legal, it's not right, it's not simple. people misunderstand the role of— not simple. people misunderstand the role of a _ not simple. people misunderstand the role of a landlord. they think we are thugs— role of a landlord. they think we are thugs who can increase rents and throw— are thugs who can increase rents and throw people out. there is a housing shortage _ throw people out. there is a housing shortage out there, and private landlords— shortage out there, and private landlords are pulling out of the rental— landlords are pulling out of the rental sector because of what the government are doing with interest rates _ government are doing with interest rates and _ government are doing with interest rates and legislation. this government are doing with interest rates and legislation.— rates and legislation. this is interesting. _ rates and legislation. this is interesting, the _ rates and legislation. this is interesting, the landlord's l interesting, the landlord�*s perspective, because there are such significant knock—on effects. james, you are in a not dissimilar situation in stevenage? 20 properties, are they all paid off? no, they are mortgaged properties. i

have been— no, they are mortgaged properties. i have been a — no, they are mortgaged properties. i have been a professional landlord for 26 _ have been a professional landlord for 26 years and i agree with your previous— for 26 years and i agree with your previous caller. it has become mathematically impossible to continue. . . mathematically impossible to continue. , , , mathematically impossible to continue. ,, , ., continue. this is true. i used to mana . e continue. this is true. i used to manage properties _ continue. this is true. i used to manage properties for - continue. this is true. i used to manage properties for other i manage properties for other landlords~ _ manage properties for other landlords. they— manage properties for other landlords. they are - manage properties for other landlords. they are saying, i manage properties for other- landlords. they are saying, vince, when _ landlords. they are saying, vince, when can— landlords. they are saying, vince, when can we — landlords. they are saying, vince, when can we give _ landlords. they are saying, vince, when can we give our— landlords. they are saying, vince, when can we give our tenants- landlords. they are saying, vince, i when can we give our tenants notice? the issue _ when can we give our tenants notice? the issue is— when can we give our tenants notice? the issue is that _ when can we give our tenants notice? the issue is that when _ when can we give our tenants notice? the issue is that when you _ when can we give our tenants notice? the issue is that when you give - when can we give our tenants notice? the issue is that when you give a i the issue is that when you give a tenant— the issue is that when you give a tenant notice, _ the issue is that when you give a tenant notice, if— the issue is that when you give a tenant notice, if they _ the issue is that when you give a tenant notice, if they can't - the issue is that when you give aj tenant notice, if they can't afford to move — tenant notice, if they can't afford to move into _ tenant notice, if they can't afford to move into another— tenant notice, if they can't afford to move into another property, l tenant notice, if they can't afford to move into another property, it tenant notice, if they can't afford . to move into another property, it is illegal— to move into another property, it is illegal to _ to move into another property, it is illegal to make _ to move into another property, it is illegal to make them _ to move into another property, it is illegal to make them homeless. i to move into another property, it is. illegal to make them homeless. local councils— illegal to make them homeless. local councils are _ illegal to make them homeless. local councils are facing _ illegal to make them homeless. local councils are facing shortages - illegal to make them homeless. local councils are facing shortages of - councils are facing shortages of houses. — councils are facing shortages of houses. so _ councils are facing shortages of houses, so they— councils are facing shortages of houses, so they are _ councils are facing shortages of houses, so they are telling i councils are facing shortages of i houses, so they are telling tenants, stay in _ houses, so they are telling tenants, stay in the _ houses, so they are telling tenants, stay in the property— houses, so they are telling tenants, stay in the property until _ houses, so they are telling tenants, stay in the property until the - stay in the property until the bailiffs — stay in the property until the bailiffs knock _ stay in the property until the bailiffs knock on _ stay in the property until the bailiffs knock on the - stay in the property until the bailiffs knock on the door. i stay in the property until the bailiffs knock on the door. [i stay in the property until the bailiffs knock on the door. i was waitin: bailiffs knock on the door. i was waiting for— bailiffs knock on the door. i was waiting forjames _ bailiffs knock on the door. i was waiting forjames to _ bailiffs knock on the door. i was waiting forjames to come i bailiffs knock on the door. i was waiting forjames to come back| bailiffs knock on the door.“ waiting forjames to come back in. bailiffs knock on the door. i was i waiting forjames to come back in. i agree with everything in the conversation. my interest bill has

more _ conversation. my interest bill has more than — conversation. my interest bill has more than tripled since last year. it more than tripled since last year. it went— more than tripled since last year. it went from 47,000 to just past 120000 — it went from 47,000 to just past 120000 and i don't know where it is going _ 120000 and i don't know where it is going next — 120000 and i don't know where it is going next. and it is impossible to continue — going next. and it is impossible to continue. ., ., continue. you can't cover that with all the rent? _ continue. you can't cover that with all the rent? you _ continue. you can't cover that with all the rent? you can _ continue. you can't cover that with all the rent? you canjust - continue. you can't cover that with all the rent? you can just about i all the rent? you can 'ust about cover it all the rent? you can 'ust about it with h all the rent? you can 'ust about cover it with the i all the rent? you canjust about cover it with the rent, - all the rent? you canjust about cover it with the rent, but i all the rent? you canjust about cover it with the rent, but what| all the rent? you can just about i cover it with the rent, but what the public _ cover it with the rent, but what the public and — cover it with the rent, but what the public and the government don't understand is that the extreme taxation— understand is that the extreme taxation that comes with that because _ taxation that comes with that because of the way the government caps your— because of the way the government caps your mortgage payment, it means we are _ caps your mortgage payment, it means we are all— caps your mortgage payment, it means we are all heading towards bankruptcy because you can't pay the taxes _ bankruptcy because you can't pay the taxes and _ bankruptcy because you can't pay the taxes and the mortgage payment. the money— taxes and the mortgage payment. the money isn't _ taxes and the mortgage payment. the money isn't there. and taxes and the mortgage payment. the money isn't there.— money isn't there. and then if you are selling — money isn't there. and then if you are selling a _ money isn't there. and then if you are selling a property, _ money isn't there. and then if you are selling a property, you - money isn't there. and then if you are selling a property, you need i money isn't there. and then if you | are selling a property, you need to take a _ are selling a property, you need to take a hit— are selling a property, you need to take a hit because _ are selling a property, you need to take a hit because you _ are selling a property, you need to take a hit because you can't- are selling a property, you need to take a hit because you can't get. are selling a property, you need to take a hit because you can't get a. take a hit because you can't get a tenant. _ take a hit because you can't get a tenant. so— take a hit because you can't get a tenant. so you _ take a hit because you can't get a tenant, so you selling _ take a hit because you can't get a tenant, so you selling it - take a hit because you can't get a tenant, so you selling it as - take a hit because you can't get a tenant, so you selling it as an i tenant, so you selling it as an investment— tenant, so you selling it as an investment at— tenant, so you selling it as an investment at auction - tenant, so you selling it as an investment at auction and i tenant, so you selling it as an| investment at auction and you tenant, so you selling it as an i investment at auction and you have to pay— investment at auction and you have to pay a _ investment at auction and you have to pay a percentage _ investment at auction and you have to pay a percentage within - investment at auction and you have to pay a percentage within 60 i investment at auction and you have| to pay a percentage within 60 days. it is to pay a percentage within 60 days. it is 28%~ _

to pay a percentage within 60 days. it is 2896. ., , ~ to pay a percentage within 60 days. it is 2896. .,, ~ ., ., , it is 2896. people think landlords are swarming — it is 2896. people think landlords are swanning around _ it is 2896. people think landlords are swanning around in - it is 2896. people think landlords are swanning around in big, i it is 2896. people think landlords | are swanning around in big, shiny jaguars— are swanning around in big, shiny jaguars and — are swanning around in big, shiny jaguars and rolling _ are swanning around in big, shiny jaguars and rolling in _ are swanning around in big, shiny jaguars and rolling in the - are swanning around in big, shinyl jaguars and rolling in the revenue. currently. — jaguars and rolling in the revenue. currently. we _ jaguars and rolling in the revenue. currently, we are _ jaguars and rolling in the revenue. currently, we are really— jaguars and rolling in the revenue. currently, we are really under- jaguars and rolling in the revenue. currently, we are really under thei currently, we are really under the cosh~ _ currently, we are really under the cosh. sadly. — currently, we are really under the cosh~ sadly. we _ currently, we are really under the cosh. sadly, we have _ currently, we are really under the cosh. sadly, we have got - currently, we are really under the i cosh. sadly, we have got programmes coming _ cosh. sadly, we have got programmes coming on _ cosh. sadly, we have got programmes coming on like — cosh. sadly, we have got programmes coming on like some _ cosh. sadly, we have got programmes coming on like some landlord - cosh. sadly, we have got programmes coming on like some landlord which. coming on like some landlord which makes _ coming on like some landlord which makes it— coming on like some landlord which makes it look— coming on like some landlord which makes it look like _ coming on like some landlord which makes it look like we _ coming on like some landlord which makes it look like we are _ coming on like some landlord which makes it look like we are rolling i coming on like some landlord which makes it look like we are rolling in| makes it look like we are rolling in it. makes it look like we are rolling in it currently. — makes it look like we are rolling in it. currently. it— makes it look like we are rolling in it. currently, it is— makes it look like we are rolling in it. currently, it is taking _ makes it look like we are rolling in it. currently, it is taking 16- it. currently, it is taking 16 months _ it. currently, it is taking 16 months to— it. currently, it is taking 16 months to get _ it. currently, it is taking 16 months to get someone i it. currently, it is taking 16| months to get someone out it. currently, it is taking 16- months to get someone out of the property— months to get someone out of the property legally— months to get someone out of the property legally and _ months to get someone out of the property legally and properly. i months to get someone out of the| property legally and properly. that is exactly the _ property legally and properly. is exactly the case. it is an property legally and properly.- is exactly the case. it is an almost impossible — is exactly the case. it is an almost impossible system to work. why people _ impossible system to work. why people think you can just impossible system to work. why people think you canjust be kicked out, people think you canjust be kicked out. i_ people think you canjust be kicked out. i don't — people think you canjust be kicked out, i don't know, because it isn't true _ out, i don't know, because it isn't true. , �* out, i don't know, because it isn't true. , ~ ., true. exactly. and we can't go knockin: true. exactly. and we can't go knocking on — true. exactly. and we can't go knocking on the _ true. exactly. and we can't go knocking on the door - true. exactly. and we can't go knocking on the door because| true. exactly. and we can't go i knocking on the door because we true. exactly. and we can't go - knocking on the door because we will be told _ knocking on the door because we will be told we _ knocking on the door because we will be told we are — knocking on the door because we will be told we are putting _ knocking on the door because we will be told we are putting them - knocking on the door because we will be told we are putting them under. be told we are putting them under duress _ be told we are putting them under duress i_ be told we are putting them under duress. i probably— be told we are putting them under duress. i probably shouldn't - be told we are putting them under duress. i probably shouldn't put i duress. i probably shouldn't put this out— duress. i probably shouldn't put this out there _ duress. i probably shouldn't put this out there on _ duress. i probably shouldn't put this out there on the _ duress. i probably shouldn't put this out there on the radio, i duress. i probably shouldn't put this out there on the radio, but| this out there on the radio, but that— this out there on the radio, but that is— this out there on the radio, but that is not— this out there on the radio, but that is not actually— this out there on the radio, but that is not actually illegal- this out there on the radio, but that is not actually illegal to i this out there on the radio, but| that is not actually illegal to not pay rent — that is not actually illegal to not pay rent it _ that is not actually illegal to not pay rent. it is— that is not actually illegal to not pay rent. it is a _ that is not actually illegal to not pay rent. it is a civil— that is not actually illegal to not pay rent. it is a civil dispute. iti

pay rent. it is a civil dispute. it is illegal— pay rent. it is a civil dispute. it is illegal to _ pay rent. it is a civil dispute. it is illegal to evict _ pay rent. it is a civil dispute. it is illegal to evict someone i pay rent. it is a civil dispute. it- is illegal to evict someone wrongly. and people — is illegal to evict someone wrongly. and people are _ is illegal to evict someone wrongly. and people are unaware _ is illegal to evict someone wrongly. and people are unaware of- is illegal to evict someone wrongly. and people are unaware of that. i is illegal to evict someone wrongly. i and people are unaware of that. and people _ and people are unaware of that. and people now— and people are unaware of that. and people now can't _ and people are unaware of that. and people now can't afford _ and people are unaware of that. and people now can't afford to _ and people are unaware of that. and people now can't afford to pay- and people are unaware of that. and people now can't afford to pay their. people now can't afford to pay their rent and _ people now can't afford to pay their rent and sadly. _ people now can't afford to pay their rent and sadly, landlords _ people now can't afford to pay their rent and sadly, landlords to - people now can't afford to pay their rent and sadly, landlords to the i rent and sadly, landlords to the bottom — rent and sadly, landlords to the bottom of— rent and sadly, landlords to the bottom of the _ rent and sadly, landlords to the bottom of the pile _ rent and sadly, landlords to the bottom of the pile because i rent and sadly, landlords to the bottom of the pile because thei bottom of the pile because the electricity— bottom of the pile because the electricity will— bottom of the pile because the electricity will be _ bottom of the pile because the electricity will be turned - bottom of the pile because the electricity will be turned off. i bottom of the pile because the i electricity will be turned off. they kick your — electricity will be turned off. they kick your door— electricity will be turned off. they kick your door in _ electricity will be turned off. they kick your door in and _ electricity will be turned off. they kick your door in and fit _ electricity will be turned off. they kick your door in and fit a - electricity will be turned off. they kick your door in and fit a new i kick your door in and fit a new meter— kick your door in and fit a new meter which _ kick your door in and fit a new meter which will— kick your door in and fit a new meter which will be _ kick your door in and fit a new meter which will be prepaid, i kick your door in and fit a new. meter which will be prepaid, or kick your door in and fit a new i meter which will be prepaid, or the landlord _ meter which will be prepaid, or the landlord will — meter which will be prepaid, or the landlord will take _ meter which will be prepaid, or the landlord will take you _ meter which will be prepaid, or the landlord will take you to _ meter which will be prepaid, or the landlord will take you to court. - meter which will be prepaid, or the landlord will take you to court. sol landlord will take you to court. so the landlord — landlord will take you to court. so the landlord is _ landlord will take you to court. so the landlord is further— landlord will take you to court. so the landlord is further down - landlord will take you to court. so the landlord is further down the l the landlord is further down the line for— the landlord is further down the line for payment. _ the landlord is further down the line for payment. people - the landlord is further down the line for payment. people have i the landlord is further down the - line for payment. people have bigger and more _ line for payment. people have bigger and more important _ line for payment. people have bigger and more important payments- line for payment. people have bigger. and more important payments because the landlord _ and more important payments because the landlord doesn't _ and more important payments because the landlord doesn't have _ and more important payments because the landlord doesn't have the - and more important payments because the landlord doesn't have the muscle l the landlord doesn't have the muscle to gel— the landlord doesn't have the muscle to get that _ the landlord doesn't have the muscle to get that revenue. _ the landlord doesn't have the muscle to get that revenue. 'l'hez;r _ the landlord doesn't have the muscle to get that revenue.— to get that revenue. they have got leuislation to get that revenue. they have got legislation to _ to get that revenue. they have got legislation to stop _ to get that revenue. they have got legislation to stop no-fault - legislation to stop no—fault evictions, we did a phone in on this recently. i evictions, we did a phone in on this recentl . . ., ., recently. i wanted to get in on that, recently. i wanted to get in on that. nicky- — recently. i wanted to get in on that, nicky. that _ recently. i wanted to get in on that, nicky. that legislation i recently. i wanted to get in on - that, nicky. that legislation means we can't _ that, nicky. that legislation means we can't do — that, nicky. that legislation means we can't do a — that, nicky. that legislation means we can't do a section— that, nicky. that legislation means we can't do a section 21 _ that, nicky. that legislation means we can't do a section 21 any - that, nicky. that legislation means we can't do a section 21 any more. i we can't do a section 21 any more. it we can't do a section 21 any more. it has _ we can't do a section 21 any more.

it has simply— we can't do a section 21 any more. it has simply meant _ we can't do a section 21 any more. it has simply meant we _ we can't do a section 21 any more. it has simply meant we can- we can't do a section 21 any more. it has simply meant we can have i it has simply meant we can have vacant _ it has simply meant we can have vacant possession _ it has simply meant we can have vacant possession of _ it has simply meant we can have vacant possession of our - it has simply meant we can have l vacant possession of our property for whatever _ vacant possession of our property for whatever reason _ vacant possession of our property for whatever reason we _ vacant possession of our property for whatever reason we see - vacant possession of our property for whatever reason we see fit, . vacant possession of our property. for whatever reason we see fit, not for whatever reason we see fit, not for nonpayment _ for whatever reason we see fit, not for nonpayment or _ for whatever reason we see fit, not for nonpayment or anything. - for whatever reason we see fit, not for nonpayment or anything. that i for nonpayment or anything. that gives— for nonpayment or anything. that gives the — for nonpayment or anything. that gives the tenant _ for nonpayment or anything. that gives the tenant two _ for nonpayment or anything. that gives the tenant two months - for nonpayment or anything. that gives the tenant two months to l gives the tenant two months to leave — gives the tenant two months to leave it— gives the tenant two months to leave if they _ gives the tenant two months to leave. if they don't, _ gives the tenant two months to leave. if they don't, you - gives the tenant two months to leave. if they don't, you have l gives the tenant two months to| leave. if they don't, you have to serve _ leave. if they don't, you have to serve them _ leave. if they don't, you have to serve them a _ leave. if they don't, you have to serve them a section— leave. if they don't, you have to serve them a section eight- leave. if they don't, you have to serve them a section eight and. leave. if they don't, you have to - serve them a section eight and then if they— serve them a section eight and then if they don't — serve them a section eight and then if they don't leave, _ serve them a section eight and then if they don't leave, you _ serve them a section eight and then if they don't leave, you have - serve them a section eight and then if they don't leave, you have to - if they don't leave, you have to take _ if they don't leave, you have to take them _ if they don't leave, you have to take them to _ if they don't leave, you have to take them to court. _ if they don't leave, you have to take them to court. it- if they don't leave, you have to take them to court. it doesn't i if they don't leave, you have to - take them to court. it doesn't mean they have _ take them to court. it doesn't mean they have got — take them to court. it doesn't mean they have got to _ take them to court. it doesn't mean they have got to be _ take them to court. it doesn't mean they have got to be out. _ take them to court. it doesn't mean they have got to be out. find - take them to court. it doesn't mean they have got to be out.— they have got to be out. and then they have got to be out. and then the are they have got to be out. and then they are on _ they have got to be out. and then they are on the _ they have got to be out. and then they are on the street. _ they have got to be out. and then they are on the street. no, - they have got to be out. and then l they are on the street. no, because it is illeual they are on the street. no, because it is illegal to _ they are on the street. no, because it is illegal to make _ they are on the street. no, because it is illegal to make someone - it is illegal to make someone homeless _ it is illegal to make someone homeless. people _ it is illegal to make someone homeless. people are - it is illegal to make someone homeless. people are not. it is illegal to make someonel homeless. people are notjust it is illegal to make someone - homeless. people are notjust on the street _ homeless. people are notjust on the street you _ homeless. people are notjust on the street. you cannot— homeless. people are notjust on the street. you cannot kick— homeless. people are notjust on the street. you cannot kick someone - homeless. people are notjust on the| street. you cannot kick someone out. if street. you cannot kick someone out. if you _ street. you cannot kick someone out. if you go _ street. you cannot kick someone out. if you go to— street. you cannot kick someone out. if you go to court _ street. you cannot kick someone out. if you go to court with _ street. you cannot kick someone out. if you go to court with a _ street. you cannot kick someone out. if you go to court with a tenant - street. you cannot kick someone out. if you go to court with a tenant and i if you go to court with a tenant and it goes— if you go to court with a tenant and it goes to _ if you go to court with a tenant and it goes to the — if you go to court with a tenant and it goes to the judge, _ if you go to court with a tenant and it goes to the judge, they - if you go to court with a tenant and it goes to the judge, they will - if you go to court with a tenant and it goes to the judge, they will say, | it goes to the judge, they will say, you are _ it goes to the judge, they will say, you are correct _ it goes to the judge, they will say, you are correct in _ it goes to the judge, they will say, you are correct in wanting - it goes to the judge, they will say, you are correct in wanting vacant l you are correct in wanting vacant possession. _ you are correct in wanting vacant possession. but _ you are correct in wanting vacant possession, but your— you are correct in wanting vacant possession, but your tenant - you are correct in wanting vacant| possession, but your tenant can't find alternative _ possession, but your tenant can't find alternative accommodation. i find alternative accommodation. therefore. — find alternative accommodation. therefore, they _ find alternative accommodation. therefore, they cannot - find alternative accommodation. therefore, they cannot move - find alternative accommodation. | therefore, they cannot move out until— therefore, they cannot move out until alternative _ therefore, they cannot move out until alternative accommodation| therefore, they cannot move out. until alternative accommodation has been found — until alternative accommodation has been found at— until alternative accommodation has been found. at the _ until alternative accommodation has been found. at the moment, - until alternative accommodation has been found. at the moment, people are going _ been found. at the moment, people are going to— been found. at the moment, people are going to the _ been found. at the moment, people

are going to the council— been found. at the moment, people are going to the council and - been found. at the moment, people are going to the council and they- are going to the council and they don't _ are going to the council and they don't realise, _ are going to the council and they don't realise, especially- are going to the council and they don't realise, especially in - don't realise, especially in portsmouth, _ don't realise, especially in portsmouth, we _ don't realise, especially in portsmouth, we have - don't realise, especially in portsmouth, we have had| don't realise, especially in - portsmouth, we have had three massive — portsmouth, we have had three massive building _ portsmouth, we have had three massive building blocks- portsmouth, we have had three massive building blocks from i portsmouth, we have had three. massive building blocks from the portsmouth, we have had three - massive building blocks from the 60s and when _ massive building blocks from the 60s and when they— massive building blocks from the 60s and when they have _ massive building blocks from the 60s and when they have gone _ massive building blocks from the 60s and when they have gone to - massive building blocks from the 60s and when they have gone to remove. and when they have gone to remove the cladding. — and when they have gone to remove the cladding, there _ and when they have gone to remove the cladding, there were _ and when they have gone to remove the cladding, there were structurali the cladding, there were structural imperfections— the cladding, there were structural imperfections and _ the cladding, there were structural imperfections and everybody- the cladding, there were structural imperfections and everybody had l the cladding, there were structurali imperfections and everybody had to be moved _ imperfections and everybody had to be moved out _ imperfections and everybody had to be moved out-— be moved out. james, what are you auoin to be moved out. james, what are you going to do? _ be moved out. james, what are you going to do? l _ be moved out. james, what are you going to do? i do — be moved out. james, what are you going to do? i do not _ be moved out. james, what are you going to do? i do not know. - be moved out. james, what are you going to do? i do not know. i - be moved out. james, what are you going to do? i do not know. i am i be moved out. james, what are you going to do? i do not know. i am atj going to do? i do not know. i am at the end of— going to do? i do not know. i am at the end of my _ going to do? i do not know. i am at the end of my tether. _ going to do? i do not know. i am at the end of my tether. if— going to do? i do not know. i am at the end of my tether. if i _ going to do? i do not know. i am at the end of my tether. if i don't - going to do? i do not know. i am at the end of my tether. if i don't do l the end of my tether. if i don't do anything. — the end of my tether. if i don't do anything, i'm going to run out of cash _ anything, i'm going to run out of cash and — anything, i'm going to run out of cash and go _ anything, i'm going to run out of cash and go bankrupt, so i have to start— cash and go bankrupt, so i have to start selling — cash and go bankrupt, so i have to start selling houses, which means trying _ start selling houses, which means trying evict — start selling houses, which means trying evict tenants. and the stupid thing _ trying evict tenants. and the stupid thing is. _ trying evict tenants. and the stupid thing is. for— trying evict tenants. and the stupid thing is, for years trying evict tenants. and the stupid thing is, foryears and trying evict tenants. and the stupid thing is, for years and years, society— thing is, for years and years, society has— thing is, for years and years, society has been saying how much they hate — society has been saying how much they hate landlords and want to get rid of— they hate landlords and want to get rid of them. now we are going, they are complaining they have got nowhere — are complaining they have got nowhere to live. do you want landlords _ nowhere to live. do you want landlords to provide private rented houses _ landlords to provide private rented houses at — landlords to provide private rented houses at reasonable prices, or do you want— houses at reasonable prices, or do you want them gone? the government are trying _ you want them gone? the government are trying to _ you want them gone? the government are trying to get rid of them and it is working. — are trying to get rid of them and it is working, we are going. you reap what _ is working, we are going. you reap what you _ is working, we are going. you reap what you sow, is what i would say. we have _ what you sow, is what i would say. we have done a lot of phone—ins on the rental market and we have had a

lot of fine people who are landlords coming on. you are not going to get the rogue landlords ringing up, are you? i'm going to leave it there, gentlemen, that was fascinating. good morning, paul in tiverton. variable rate mortgage. every month, you will have been hit. yes. variable rate mortgage. every month, you will have been hit.— you will have been hit. yes, i have been on a — you will have been hit. yes, i have been on a variable _ you will have been hit. yes, i have been on a variable rate _ you will have been hit. yes, i have been on a variable rate mortgage. you will have been hit. yes, i have . been on a variable rate mortgage now for at _ been on a variable rate mortgage now for at least _ been on a variable rate mortgage now for at least two years. and in the last 12 _ for at least two years. and in the last 12 months, it has increased month— last 12 months, it has increased month on— last 12 months, it has increased month on month with the interest rate rises — month on month with the interest rate rises. it may only be a slight increase — rate rises. it may only be a slight increase for— rate rises. it may only be a slight increase for me and i am not earning a bad _ increase for me and i am not earning a bad wage~ — increase for me and i am not earning a bad wage. however, it means i can't _ a bad wage. however, it means i can't afford — a bad wage. however, it means i can't afford to save for some of the necessary — can't afford to save for some of the necessary things i would have been able to— necessary things i would have been able to do— necessary things i would have been able to do while interest rates were low. able to do while interest rates were

low i_ able to do while interest rates were low i need — able to do while interest rates were low. i need new tires on the car. i need _ low. i need new tires on the car. i need new— low. i need new tires on the car. i need new glasses because i have only .ot need new glasses because i have only got one _ need new glasses because i have only got one pair— need new glasses because i have only got one pair at the moment. and i rely on _ got one pair at the moment. and i rely on those every day, the car to .et rely on those every day, the car to get to— rely on those every day, the car to get to work— rely on those every day, the car to get to work and the glasses to see. so i get to work and the glasses to see. so i have _ get to work and the glasses to see. so i have cashed in one of my pensions _ so i have cashed in one of my pensions in the last week to give me a bit of— pensions in the last week to give me a bit of a _ pensions in the last week to give me a bit of a cushionjust so i have .ot a bit of a cushionjust so i have got some — a bit of a cushionjust so i have got some money for things like the boiler— got some money for things like the boiler breaking down, the car breaking _ boiler breaking down, the car breaking down.— boiler breaking down, the car breakin: down. . , , . ,, boiler breaking down, the car breakin: down. . ,, .~ ., breaking down. emmanuel, speak to him. it is important— breaking down. emmanuel, speak to him. it is important that _ breaking down. emmanuel, speak to him. it is important that we - breaking down. emmanuel, speak to him. it is important that we have - breaking down. emmanuel, speak to him. it is important that we have an | him. it is important that we have an emergency — him. it is important that we have an emergency fund- — him. it is important that we have an emergency fund. so _ him. it is important that we have an emergency fund. so what _ him. it is important that we have an emergency fund. so what the - him. it is important that we have an emergency fund. so what the caller| emergency fund. so what the caller did is necessary. why have we stayed on the variable? we have been saying for quite a while to fix, so i'm guessing there must be a reason. but as long as you stay on the variable,

it is going to continue to go up. the good thing about fixing or even doing a tracker mortgage is that at least you have some control over your monthly payment. you can budget, because you know the payment is going to be that amount for that period of time. by staying on the variable, you have no control and you are capped by the amount of income you can bring in. if i was sitting with you as a client i would ask, why are we remaining on the variable? ~ . ., , ., ask, why are we remaining on the variable? ~ . ., i. ask, why are we remaining on the variable? ~ . ., . variable? what would you say if paul said he was — variable? what would you say if paul said he was going — variable? what would you say if paul said he was going to _ variable? what would you say if paul said he was going to cash _ variable? what would you say if paul said he was going to cash in - variable? what would you say if paul said he was going to cash in one - variable? what would you say if paul said he was going to cash in one of l said he was going to cash in one of his pensions? taste said he was going to cash in one of his pensions?— said he was going to cash in one of his ensions? ~ . , . ., his pensions? we always have to look at the situation. _ his pensions? we always have to look at the situation. sometimes - his pensions? we always have to look at the situation. sometimes we - his pensions? we always have to look at the situation. sometimes we have | at the situation. sometimes we have to do things in the short term to survive. you might love to use that money in retirement, but you have to survive now in order to live longer. set it is important that you change your tyres and glasses and so forth.

these are everyday essentials that need to be done. but if you are taking that pension now, we need to look at what to put in place over the next few years to try and make up the next few years to try and make up what we are losing by taking your pension early. that up what we are losing by taking your pension early-— pension early. that is the thing, isn't it? i have _ pension early. that is the thing, isn't it? i have got _ pension early. that is the thing, isn't it? i have got plenty - pension early. that is the thing, isn't it? i have got plenty of - isn't it? i have got plenty of ension isn't it? i have got plenty of pension provision _ isn't it? i have got plenty of pension provision in - isn't it? i have got plenty of pension provision in other l isn't it? i have got plenty of. pension provision in other ways because i have six or seven other pensions. but because i was 55 last week, it meant i was able to draw down on this one. that was why i did it. i have got long—term pension provision, but needs must at the moment. . ~ provision, but needs must at the moment. . ,, , ., provision, but needs must at the moment. . ,, , , moment. thank you, everybody. the interest rate — moment. thank you, everybody. the interest rate rise _ moment. thank you, everybody. the interest rate rise will— moment. thank you, everybody. the interest rate rise will be _ moment. thank you, everybody. the interest rate rise will be announced l interest rate rise will be announced at midday by what was previously referred to as the bank of interest. newjustin, actor stephen tomkinson has been found not guilty at newcastle crown court of inflicting grievous bodily harm by punching a drunk man who was making noise

outside his house, a case that has had considerable publicity for obvious reasons. stephen tomkinson was found not guilty. see you tomorrow. live from london. this is bbc news. ukraine's president says his military is still waiting for arms from the west, delaying a planned counter—offensive against russia. mentally m e nta lly we mentally we are ready. in terms of how motivated are military are, we are ready. in terms of enough personnel in our brigades, we are ready. in terms of equipment, not everything is arrived yet. the transpennine rail service in the north of england to be taken over by the uk government, after customer complaints about poor service and cancelled trains. braced for the twelfth rate rise in a row, the uk faces its steepest borrowing costs in almost 15 years. and eurovision fever heats up. 16 countries take the stage

in liverpool later for the second semifinal.