disses bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories at the top of the hour straight after this programme. hello. very warm welcome to the programme. let's take a look at what's on the show. ~ �* , , , show. we've spent everything we've saved. _ show. we've spent everything we've saved. it's _ show. we've spent everything we've saved. it's the - show. we've spent everything we've saved. it's the country. we've saved. it's the country with more — we've saved. it's the country with more consumers - we've saved. it's the country with more consumers than i we've saved. it's the country l with more consumers than any other on the planet. so how do businesses tap into india's billion plus consumers? as the country's population takes over china we ask is

india one of the most economically powerful countries. we meet people interviewing. and this young man is spreading his reach around the world. talking of hotels with then $14 billion already with the big bus that runs booking dot—com and price linejust to name runs booking dot—com and price line just to name a few. he joins me later on in the show. wherever you arejoining me

from around the world welcome to the show. just a few weeks ago what many anticipated, india overtook china to boast the biggest population on earth but can the country turn the demographic advantage into an economic one and what the secrets of selling to india's mass population of consumers. perhaps one sign of india's arrival was one of the opening stores of apple just a few weeks ago. but if you can compare the number of apple stores in china with that avenger the question becomes why is apple going on so late quiz—mac apple currently has two stores in india but operates 45 stores in mainland china. it's a similar story with mcdonald's. the fast food giant in 2021 had just over 50 restaurant in india but had nearly ten times more in china. that is despite the population number being nearly the same at

around 1.4 billion people. and maybe this explains why the value of the total amount of goods and services produced in india per person is $2600 a year. in china it is more. one reason for that is that women are underrepresented in the workforce with only one out of ten indian workers being female. but does that mean women don't make the spending decisions quiz—mac we hit the streets of main by —— mumbai to find our talk to the people there. ~ , find our talk to the people there. g , , , find our talk to the people there. g ,, , ., there. my mum spends more. on me! i am — there. my mum spends more. on me! i am very _ there. my mum spends more. on me! i am very much _ there. my mum spends more. on me! i am very much pampered i there. my mum spends more. on | me! i am very much pampered and i me! i am very much pampered and “jet— me! i am very much pampered and lgetwhy— me! i am very much pampered and i get why won't. in

me! i am very much pampered and i get why won't-— i get why won't. in our family we cive i get why won't. in our family we give equal— i get why won't. in our family we give equal importance - i get why won't. in our family we give equal importance to| we give equal importance to ever~ — we give equal importance to ever~ we _ we give equal importance to ever~ we did _ we give equal importance to ever. we did family- we give equal importance to- ever. we did family management everything — ever. we did family management everything hie— ever. we did family management everything-— everything. we like to base save for the _ everything. we like to base save for the kids _ everything. we like to base save for the kids for - everything. we like to base save for the kids for their i save for the kids for their happiness and their future. we like to save more. aha, happiness and their future. we like to save more.— like to save more. a little flavour the _ like to save more. a little flavour the sentiment - like to save more. a little flavour the sentiment of i like to save more. a little i flavour the sentiment of the new is of mumbai. but to understand this, we turn to a first guess. a managing director the boston consulting group based in delhi. nimisha, welcome. what do india's new consumers look for in products quiz—mac i spent years in hours with consumers in their homes, researching what they want, how they think and there is no such thing of one indian consumer. the important thing that india

it is very diverse. there are a few characteristics that are changing. 0ne, few characteristics that are changing. one, this is a consumer that is becoming a lot more affluent. today 12% of indian households are affluent. indian households are affluent. in the next seven to eight years that number will be 25%. at that time they will account for more than 50% of consumption in the country and will be very different to their less affluent counterparts. the second thing is that the indian consumer is becoming more political. in 2015 20% of indian households were online. today that number is over 67%. in a country that is becoming democratised, communities are

spending time—consuming media and are getting influenced on what products to buy making purchases online. that fundamentally changes their exposure levels. the third thing i would say is that the indian consumer, while she is starting to become a lot more aware, a lot more modern in her thinking, also likes to hold back and have a lot of beliefs in indian tradition. and is therefore looking for a combination of traditional indian ingredients, deep rooted tradition, but in a modern format and it's that combination that has really has a hold on what she looks for. are they more likely to want products from international companies or domestic companies quiz—maci companies or domestic companies cuiz-ma- ~ �* , companies or domestic companies huiz-ma ~' �*, ,, quiz-mac i think it's less about whether _ quiz-mac i think it's less about whether the - quiz-mac i think it's less - about whether the companies indian or domestic i think it

is more about what are they offering that the brand is able to provide for them. while this consumer is looking for brands that are able to combine the best of old and new, the best of tradition with modern, so if you look at the e and personal care, the indian consumer today wants traditional indian ingredients like turmeric, indian herbs but combined in a very modern format which is easy—to—use, simple, convenient packaging and it's that combination that makes it special. that can be provided by either an indian or international brand. but it's someone who expects that combination. that's what they look for. ~ combination. that's what they lookfor. ~ ~ ., ., ., look for. we know that women make the _ look for. we know that women make the vast _ look for. we know that women make the vast majority - look for. we know that women make the vast majority is - look for. we know that women make the vast majority is of. make the vast majority is of decisions. is that the case in

india and how quickly other female roles changing quiz—mac i'm glad you asked that question. i'm glad you asked that question-— i'm glad you asked that question. i'm glad you asked that cuestion. ., ., question. the enrolment of . irls question. the enrolment of uirls in question. the enrolment of girls in high _ question. the enrolment of girls in high school- question. the enrolment of girls in high school has - girls in high school has escalated. it's such a powerful data point is because what it saysis data point is because what it says is they will be more educated winning entering the consumption age and we will have more educated women in the workforce and when that happens the decision—making hierarchy just changes dramatically. already, in india, over50% just changes dramatically. already, in india, over 50% of consumption is influenced by women but in other markets it's a lot higher. the household grocery budgets, women are the foremost decision—maker. the

role is climbing rapidly. foremost decision-maker. the role is climbing rapidly.- role is climbing rapidly. let's sta on role is climbing rapidly. let's stay on this _ role is climbing rapidly. let's stay on this briefly _ role is climbing rapidly. let's stay on this briefly because l role is climbing rapidly. let's i stay on this briefly because we are seeing this urban generation of women working in cities. how important is this great companies quiz—mac it should be very important. i think some categories and some brands have understood this but others have not. the point i was going to make earlier is that why the importance of women in the role of decision—making, brands have not necessarily adapted to the solutions as well as they could have. two great examples of that are financial services and auto where services have been adapting solutions and communications to target women more effectively.— more effectively. thank you for our more effectively. thank you for your time _ more effectively. thank you for your time and _ more effectively. thank you for your time and for _ more effectively. thank you for your time and for being - more effectively. thank you for your time and for being on - more effectively. thank you for your time and for being on the | your time and for being on the show and i will talk to you

soon. if anyone's been at the forefront of recognising and catering to the indian traveller, my nest guess at 19 years old has started the company 0y0. it's become the biggest hotel networking india and has expanded across asia and has expanded across asia and is now in europe and united states. his founder is still under 30 and i spoke to him a little earlier. it's great to have you with us. we appreciate your time. have you with us. we appreciate yourtime. i have you with us. we appreciate your time. i want to start with this,. we are lucky to be here in india _ with this,. we are lucky to be here in india at _ with this,. we are lucky to be here in india at this _ with this,. we are lucky to be here in india at this form - with this,. we are lucky to be here in india at this form of. here in india at this form of life. it's a difficult ecosystem to organise but its rapidly increasing. nine years

back if you had met me and asked which you have more than 50 million users i would say no way because the capital to reach them

but because now we have access to mobile app which allows reach to all the consumers, consumers like to use mobile experience. suddenly we don't need to put thousands of stores to reach out to them. second, there is access to capital, which was never available earlier for young people with great ideas. but today, if you have great success in your early results, people see your business plans and think that this is a right opportunity, the best in the world, whether it is lightspeed capital, sequoia capital, softbank vision fund, they would all be willing to support you with capital. and the last is talent. as you know, they are fantastic young indians who both based in india as well as overseas, have all chosen to come back to india when there are these new, exciting startups that have grown. in fact, 30 to 40% of my leadership team has went to fantastic universities in the united states. so i think a combination of great talent, great technological enablement and a country that's ready to consume, you're now launching a more expensive brand. so i'm wondering, richard, does this mean that the consumer is changing? i think, first off, are consumers have always remained highly value seeking, right. they want to try and

get great experiences at the right price point. and our offering, of course, has primarily been focused in the budget ecosystem. but we are increasingly seeing that our consumers are starting to sort of also evolve. right, because like india is quickly upgrading, a lot of our consumers are also upgrading and starting to have better paying abilities, which is part of your appeal better paying abilities. which is part of your appeal to the indian market. is that 0yos home grown? i'm wondering, do you think that matters to your customers? i think specifically, a few things that being in india allows us to do includes one appreciation of what our consumers really want. consumers sometimes want, you know, great food along with the hotel accommodation, which may or may not be the case in budget ecosystem hotels in different parts of the world. second, are consumers need and ability to appreciate technology is disproportionate. they expect us to predict which hotel that they should stage rather than them having to search. they expect us to predict which room they should be staying at without them having to say this to us. and of course, i think there is also a sense of appeal, because india is one of the world's fastest growing outbound travel markets. so a lot of indians are travelling overseas to southeast asia, europe, united states and various others. and i think due to this, we are able to sort of not

just support our customers here locally, but also enable them to be a part of an experience globally. and let me end on this. what can you share with companies outside about how you create and build a brand for the indian consumers? i think that's a great question. i think the first and the foremost is to recognise that indian consumers are today probably one of the brightest and one of the most globally aware audiences you will find anywhere in the world. so do not mistake for india as a market which probably expects anything less than world class services and world class outcomes. but, you know, they expect that and of course, value. so first and foremost, usage of technology, meeting your consumers actively. and third, being comfortable being a global brand to transparently share not just the what of your service, but also of the why of your service. i've always said if you can build a good business in india, you can build a good business around the world.

at 0yo we started our business in india and now have grown to over 35 countries around the world. so our perspective is if you are a brand in europe, us, southeast asia and you're looking at the indian consumers, be global, be engaged with your consumers, know that your customers are demanding world class experiences and it's a huge market. also in secondary cities you will be surprised a lot of other cities as well. whether it is great yarmouth, brighton we are seeing fantastic demand and a lot of these locations because in these coastal towns for the first time there is a brand that goes in with world cost apology that not only drives great revenue but great appreciations because you see the cost of labour has been growing around the world over

the last few years. so now they are responding to customer queries. 0n the merchant side they are projecting revenue and then you can invest in growth so our perspective is, if you are a brand. so our perspective is if you are a brand in europe, us, southeast asia and you're looking at the indian consumers, be global, be engaged with your consumers, know that your customers are demanding world class experiences and it's a huge market. don't expect great results in a short period of time. give it a long term goal and you will find that india will give you great returns. well, on that point, ritesh agarwal, i was going to say good luck. i don't think you need it, but thanks for your time and i'll check in with you soon. hey, coming up and staying with hotels, the big boss who runs

the biggest travel company on the planetjoins me is what a hotel and leisure with them in hundred 20 countries around the world and they've just announced a big bouncing profit so i caught off with the big boss to find out what's going on.— with the big boss to find out what's going on. glenn fogel my friend. a pleasure _ what's going on. glenn fogel my friend. a pleasure having - what's going on. glenn fogel my friend. a pleasure having you - friend. a pleasure having you on my show. with the —looking india overtaking china as the most populous nation, i want to ask you glenn, how important is the indian market for you quiz—mac well, every part of the world is important to us. that's the first thing. but there's no doubt there's incredible opportunity in india for the long run. and it is growing rapidly now for travel, but it's still

a relatively small amount compared to other parts of the world. you look at the india, you look at the number of people there are huge. but look at the age i levels of the people. but look at the age levels of the people. aren't they able to actually travel on their own yet? a lot of people very young. and then you look at the per capita gdp, very low compared to other areas. look, it's actually going to be something that we have to look at as a long term growth opportunity for us. but it's not necessarily growing in terms of the absolute numbers as much as other areas. glenn, let's talk about that all important market that is china. how has the return of the chinese traveller? has that made an impact yet? well, a couple of things on that. as i as i said many times, it's hard for the non chinese travel companies to really do well in china domestically, almost impossible. so really for people like us, we really concentrated more on the outbound part of the travel industry is chinese travellers who want to travel to other parts of the world. and that has been slower than i think some people expected. we were we weren't expecting to come back so fast, but some people were. we were not because it takes

time to get the amount of what's necessary. it's called lift. how many aeroplanes do you have that are going to be able to do that? outbound travel? and injanuary, for example, the amount of lift in china going outbound was only about mid—teens percentage versus 2019. that's a really small amount. now it's been coming back because they've been able to bring pilots back in, bring back people who are working in the air business. but it's still relatively low compared to what it was in 2019. let's talk about your recent record breaking numbers. i mean, bumper profits, glenn, what's behind those numbers? because when i saw them, my first thought was surely the pandemic bounce back has petered out by now, but it hasn't. and that's the thing. don't forget, i mean, we're talking almost three years of very hard to travel and people in many parts of the world were supported by governments that enable people to establish large amounts of savings that now they want to spend on travel. so we think this is going to go on for some time.

and, glenn, you probably know this, but the hilton hotel group have recently warned that while things are strong for now, they say that they may soften later in the year. i mean, are you seeing the same sort of thing? because from what you're saying, what you've just said, i mean, it doesn't feel like that. what i say is we're not seeing it right now, but i'm also not predicting a future slowdown either. one of the things i've learned after 20 something years, this industry is not make predictions too far ahead because things are always changing. and glenn, some of your sites kayak and open table, for example. they're already using a.i. artificial intelligence. so, glenn, just on that, these new forms of ai, how are they going to change your operations? you know, i've been talking about something called the connected trip for a long time. and the idea behind it was a long time ago when i was a young man, i used a human being travel agent. and the way it worked is i'd have a conversation with that travel agent.

and that travel agent sort of knew what i'd like and knew what i could afford and would give me a couple of options we'd work together to come up with, be the optimal solution, and then if anything went wrong, - and then if anything went wrong, ijust call that person to fix it and that was going to work. now imagine if you've done anything with chat, but you have a conversation. it's conversational, you're going back and forth. think of that is trying to put together your itinerary for travel in the same way, putting together different things going back and forth so it continues to narrow down would be best for you. and then if anything went wrong again, you went back to that same type of chat about conversational ai and it fixed it automatically. that's what the future is. now here's the problem, or one of the difficulties would be a lot of people are concerned about general a. i. and what that's going to do to society and all the other things that how technology can be used in a negative way versus a positive way.

we've seen that throughout time of technology can be used for good or for bad. and glenn, i want to get your thoughts on the current state of the airline industry. it's still not fully back to pre—pandemic levels in terms of capacity. basically, many airlines still just don't have the same amount of planes flying as they did pre—pandemic. and so with less seats on offer but demand high, these airlines, they are charging some eye watering airfares. is that sustainable, do you think? you know, there's an amazing thing about price. price, you know, comes between the match between supply and demand. and if there isn't a demand, those prices will go down. but you're absolutely right, it's been a problem. airlines have had difficulty providing the same amount of supply as they did previously. and don't forget, they let go a lot of pilots, they let go flight attendants and then go to the airports and the problems there where the airports let go of people. so there aren't as many people at the airports. and some airports are saying we're not going to have as many

flights as we used to for a while because we can't staff that. well, if you don't have as many flights and again, as a cut on supply and price is always going to match up so that there's an equilibrium where price and demand match and you get what you're going to get. the thing is, people are continuing to spend at these very, very high levels. they're continuing to spend that money. and that's why those prices stay up. i assure you that if people did not want to spend that much money, those prices would be coming down. i neither everyone in the industry is doing their best to get that supply back—up. everybody, they see demand out there _ everybody, they see demand out there and — everybody, they see demand out there and they want to get more planes, — there and they want to get more planes, airports, more people through— planes, airports, more people through the airports, people are trying to get people back. in are trying to get people back. in iots— are trying to get people back. in lots of— are trying to get people back. in lots of parts of the world

levels — in lots of parts of the world levels are very low so it's not like _ levels are very low so it's not like there's a lot of people standing around looking for jobs — standing around looking for jobs. you have to track people to come — jobs. you have to track people to come to _ jobs. you have to track people to come to work in these areas. some _ to come to work in these areas. some people say, i'm not sure if i some people say, i'm not sure if i want — some people say, i'm not sure if i want to— some people say, i'm not sure if i want to come and work at the airport. it's not near my home — the airport. it's not near my home and _ the airport. it's not near my home and there's these other opportunities right near me where — opportunities right near me where they are paying good wages _ where they are paying good wages. it takes a lot of training _ wages. it takes a lot of training to get someone to be a pilot— training to get someone to be a pilot or— training to get someone to be a pilot or a — training to get someone to be a pilot or a flight attendant so that— pilot or a flight attendant so that takes time too.- pilot or a flight attendant so that takes time too. let's talk about working _ that takes time too. let's talk about working from _ that takes time too. let's talk about working from home. . that takes time too. let's talk| about working from home. has that driven people to travel more because they are working from different locations quiz—mac i think it's teen something a little bit different which is encouraging people to travel while they still work into mixing their pleasure and their work. so some people call it leisure for business _ some people call it leisure for business so— some people call it leisure for busines— business. so you'll see that they used _ business. so you'll see that they used to _ business. so you'll see that they used to be _ business. so you'll see that they used to be a _ business. so you'll see that they used to be a lot - business. so you'll see that they used to be a lot of- business. so you'll see that. they used to be a lot of people travelling and staying say fridey— travelling and staying say friday nights because they had

a iot— friday nights because they had a lot of— friday nights because they had a lot of business people travelling monday, tuesday and wednesday but now what you see is that _ wednesday but now what you see is that people are staying thursday, friday, somewhere far from _ thursday, friday, somewhere far from home, _ thursday, friday, somewhere far from home, remotely. we are hoping — from home, remotely. we are hoping that will help build up travel— hoping that will help build up travel demand, because people will see — travel demand, because people will see an opportunity where they— will see an opportunity where they can _ will see an opportunity where they can travel and do work and still enon— they can travel and do work and still enjoy a nice holiday at the weekend. on that point, my friend glenn fogel, of course, the big boss of booking holdings. always a pleasure, glenn, having you on. and no doubt i'll talk to you soon. thank you very much. well, that's it for this week. i hope you enjoyed the show. don't forget, you can keep up with the latest on our global economy on the bbc website or the smartphone app. you can also follow me on twitter. tweet me. i'll tweet you back. you can get me a bbc error. thanks for watching. i'll see you soon. bye bye.

the next six to ten days look fairly benign. try that with a few showers dotted around. the weekend has started on a warm night, sunny for many. but next week things will be turning cooler. this cold front, that rain band pushing in from the north to the west. still quite warm ahead of it. this is the picture for sunday. cloudy for scotland, northern ireland. 0utbreaks scotland, northern ireland. outbreaks of rain. blustery showers ahead of it. a few showers ahead of it. a few showers around in the midlands. any grey clouds burning back to the coast. another fairly warm afternoon, 21 celsius is the high, low to mid—teens in the north to the west. that weather front continues to spread across sunday night. it almost gets squeezed because of these

high pressure areas developing. the feel of things on monday will be cooler as you can see from that blue colour there. dry weather around, and north north—westerly breeze. northern scotland will see a few showers dotted around, also northern england and east anglia. best of the sunshine towards the south and the west. temperatures at best will only be 15 celsius the most. we are looking 10—14 c. cooler for this time in may. high pressure on tuesday, weather fronts to the north which will bring further showers to scotland, northern ireland. again, most of these will be towards most central and eastern areas. the drier weather will be towards the south—west. we could make 16-17 c but the south—west. we could make 16—17 c but for most, low to mid. below parfor this time in

may. into wednesday, high—pressure. running into the north west of the uk there will be thicker cloud and more breeze. elsewhere, variable cloud. sunny spells, the best of it towards the south—west. . the majority, it's the mid—teens. thursday could be a wetter day with this low pressure pushing into the north—west of the uk. more weather fronts on the chart. there will more cloud across northern ireland and scotland. probably a better chance of staying dry if you are in the south—east. temperatures, disappointing where it's cloudy. may be up 17 celsius. the outlook as we end the week pushing into the weekend, high—pressure dominates the scene, keeps most of these

weather systems at bay. we will start to import some warm air off the near continent eventually. towards the end of the way, the weekend, into the following week, we keep the colder air away from us and maybe tap into something a little warmer. a few showers around, temperatures slowly recovering as we push deeper into next week with an increasing amount of sunshine. take care.

live from washington, this is bbc news. 243 points! we have a winner! a historic end to eurovision, with sweden's loreen becoming the first woman to win the contest twice. i'm so happy and so thankful. thank you for this. this is for you, thank you. volodymyr zelensky and the pope hold talks at the vatican, but the pontiff stops short of directly condemning russia's invasion of ukraine. a ceasefire takes effect in the gaza strip after five days of fighting between israel and palestinian militants.