live from washington, this is bbc news. welcome to viewers on pbs in america. the creator of chatgpt calls on us lawmakers to regulate ai. we'll speak to former google ceo eric schmidt. optimism but no resolution as us leaders try to sort out the country's debt crisis. political corruption in the spotlight in kyiv as ukraine's topjudge is dismissed over bribery allegations. the co—founder and ceo of openai, the company behind

the chatgpt, testified before us congress to say that artificial iintelligence should be regulated. us lawmakers questioned tech entrepreneur sam altmann about the benefits the technology can bring and the threat it could pose for humanity. my worst fears are that we cause significant — we, the field, the technology, the industry — cause significant harm to the world. i think that could happen in a lot of different ways. it's why we started the company. it's a big part of why i'm here today, and why we've been here in the past, and we've been able to spend some time with you. i think if this technology goes wrong, it can go quite wrong. and we want to be vocal about that. we want to work with the government to prevent that from happening. but we try to be very clear—eyed about what the downside case is and the work that we have to do so who is sam altman, the man in the hotseat today and at the forefront of this emerging technology? he's an influential investor and entrepreneur

in silicon valley. his startup, chatgpt, has 100 million monthly users. he started openai with spacex founder and twitter owner elon musk in 2015, before the two went their separate ways. altmann, who is 38 years old, has reportedly been described a �*start—up yoda' and even compared to another famous tech wizard, bill gates. live now to new york, where i'm joined by eric schmidt, former ceo of google. after watching the hearing today, do you think congress will come up with limb meaningful legislation to regulate ai?— meaningful legislation to regulate ai? thank you for havin: regulate ai? thank you for having me- _ regulate ai? thank you for having me. i— regulate ai? thank you for having me. ithink- regulate ai? thank you for having me. i think what. regulate ai? thank you for| having me. i think what will happen first is the white house process will go through the summer. the white house has already been looking at what is an appropriate regulatory structure and then congress will undoubtedly debater in the fall. my own guess is that they need to be regulation but we

don't know exactly how to do it. sam and his testimony talked about creating an internet regulatory division, which is one possibility but there are others, commercial groups independent of any other company, that is how electricity and meat is regulated. there are a whole bunch of approaches in the us system. bunch of approaches in the us s stem. ~ ., ., ., system. want to ask you about one of those — system. want to ask you about one of those proposals - system. want to ask you about one of those proposals from i system. want to ask you about i one of those proposals from sam altmann, the creation of a national licensing agency signing off on al agencies before they are released. are you worried that could stifle innovation? is you worried that could stifle innovation?— innovation? is important to remember _ innovation? is important to remember we _ innovation? is important to remember we are - innovation? is important to remember we are here - innovation? is important to - remember we are here because ai has such extraordinary potential. imagine an ai doctor for the world, and ai tutor for the world making healthcare and education of citizen in the world that much stronger. it's really important we don't slow down the progress we just need to address some of the dangers and the best way to do that is to make sure these systems have guardrails as they are called

on them to prevent the worst things, had i kill myself and other people, that sort of thing. you can achieve that in a number of ways. i think the truth is you will end up having some sort of regulatory structure around the biggest and most capable of these models because that is where the danger lies today anyway. the biggest means models that today cost $100 million to train. we will see. we today cost $100 million to train. we will see. we spoke to geoffrey hinton, _ train. we will see. we spoke to geoffrey hinton, the _ train. we will see. we spoke to geoffrey hinton, the godfather| geoffrey hinton, the godfather of ai about the rapid development of this technology. asked about the risks and benefits of the this is what he said. it benefits of the this is what he said. ., , ., , benefits of the this is what he said. ., , .,, ., said. it will not stop at developing _ said. it will not stop at developing because i said. it will not stop at| developing because the competition— developing because the competition for- developing because the l competition for example developing because the - competition for example between united _ competition for example between united states_ competition for example between united states and _ competition for example between united states and china _ competition for example between united states and china for- united states and china for example. _ united states and china for example, even— united states and china for example, even if— united states and china for example, even if everyone| example, even if everyone stormed _ example, even if everyone stopped development, - example, even if everyone l stopped development, china would — stopped development, china would get _ stopped development, china would get a _ stopped development, china would get a big _ stopped development, china would get a big lead. - stopped development, china would get a big lead. [5- stopped development, china would get a big lead. is there a wa to would get a big lead. is there a way to regulate _ would get a big lead. is there a way to regulate ai - would get a big lead. is there a way to regulate ai so - would get a big lead. is there a way to regulate ai so that l a way to regulate ai so that countries like china would follow regulation? find countries like china would

follow regulation? and the first place. _ follow regulation? and the first place, china - follow regulation? and the first place, china will - follow regulation? and the first place, china will do i follow regulation? and the | first place, china will do its own thing and at the moment it is a few years behind so this is a few years behind so this is an american story today with the help of britain. it is important to know that the deep mine start up part of google now is one of the progenitors of some of this technology is the progenitors of some of this technology is that britain made a major con does such contribution. the fact is this is a us story and a us regulatory story and its is ahead ahead of anybody else. so we have an opportunity to set the framework correctly that allow for the greatness but also deals with the harm and we're not talking about the harm that everyone normally perceives where it is discriminatory or so forth. we're talking about severe harms, existential risks, i want to kill a million people, which i personally do not but imagine if an evil person said that to a computer, we need to make sure it does not allow that person to do it. that is what the concern is. that is why the industry saying we want to talk to the government. in my entire career i've never this happen. industry has or

has been reluctant to come to the table. here, the industry is aggressively talking and educating governments around the world to do so, and that is a good thing. the world to do so, and that is a good thing-— a good thing. you wrote in a newsoaper. _ a good thing. you wrote in a newspaper, the _ a good thing. you wrote in a newspaper, the atlantic, i a good thing. you wrote in a i newspaper, the atlantic, about the steps in the ai. you said regulators could authenticate all users. mark ai—generated content, require data transparency with users with government officials and researchers and clarify platforms that sometimes can be liable for the choices they make in content they promote and also raise the age of internet adulthood 216 one quarter hour. that is when children can open accounts on things like instagram and tiktok. let's talk about some of these. how to enforce making sure that young children do not have accounts these platforms? this is called age dating and there are a bunch of techniques

which involve verification, showing which school you went to in that sort of thing. we know how to do it roughly now well and i think we can do it well and i think we can do it well enough to raise the age from 13 to 16. i would tell you part of the reason i read the article with jonathan part of the reason i read the article withjonathan is that we will have to stay miserable 2024. in 2024 we have major and significant elections around the world especially in india and the united states and europe and all of them will be flooded with extremely inexpensive, very easy to produce misinformation. it is so easy now to create a fake community, a fake site and identity and flooded with visual images and so forth. evenif visual images and so forth. even if all you do with the press the vote, your candidate can win. this is really bad for democracy so we need to get on social media now in particular address the issues you just highlighted. d0 address the issues you 'ust highlightedi address the issues you 'ust highlighted. do you think it will be possible _ highlighted. do you think it will be possible to - highlighted. do you think it will be possible to label i will be possible to label ai—generated content as such which is one of the proposals

you wrote?— you wrote? absolutely. it appears _ you wrote? absolutely. it appears to _ you wrote? absolutely. it appears to me _ you wrote? absolutely. it appears to me that i you wrote? absolutely. it appears to me that the i you wrote? absolutely. it i appears to me that the systems that generate the content can be trained in such a way that they must generate the watermark as it is called in the content. in other words you can build systems which when they produce these beautiful images, they also encode internally, say, this is not a real picture. it was actually made here in this location by this person. if we knew who made the content, and the content was bad, we have a chance of figuring out what to do with it or them. right? there are plenty of laws that govern misinformation, lying, stealing, hurting people. we need to know who to apply the laws too. that is why we need watermarking of the content and know who the people are on the platform to start with. so know who the people are on the platform to start with.— platform to start with. so you oint to platform to start with. so you point to the — platform to start with. so you point to the eu _ platform to start with. so you point to the eu digital - point to the eu digital services act in this article which has data transparency mandates the companies. why not institute a federal law on data privacy and protection which

would then limit the access that these large language models have two data in the first place?— first place? the issue by the wa is first place? the issue by the way is not — first place? the issue by the way is not access _ first place? the issue by the way is not access to - first place? the issue by the way is not access to data. i first place? the issue by the i way is not access to data. the data is covered by plenty of privacy rules. the real issue is about transparency and how the algorithm works. to hold people accountable, i want to know why was this content was said to me? what was it that i did that because this stupid ad or message or crazy present to be delivered to me, to try to proselytise me. social media works by basically generating outrage and i want to understand why it is trying to make me outraged for me to then make me outraged for me to then make them more revenue. we need to put in systems where you know who the people are, what the content is and why was it given to me? in america, section 230 allows for an exclusion of any liability for the content, for the platform players. this made sense in 1994 when it happened. but today the platforms are

choosing which content to give you. they have some culpability which gives you content which causes that really bad outcome. a final question. there is a sense among some people that we are basically playing catch up as large language models and technology like chatgpt continue to develop. is there still time to have meaningful regulation to rain all of this in? �* , , , . , in? it's still very early in the technology, - in? it's still very early in the technology, plenty l in? it's still very early in | the technology, plenty of in? it's still very early in - the technology, plenty of time. my the technology, plenty of time. my own view is that you was the proposals out of the unit us government and industry in this calendar year and what will happen is we will work with other institutions such as g7 to get democratic principles established. i don't think we can talk to china until we figure out our own narrative because that is where we are the leaders. but i think there is plenty of time and remember this is version one. if you have an android phone or iphone your own version ten or 15. take these technologies and imagine them ten years from

now. so much more powerful, so much more useful and so much more concerning.— much more useful and so much more concerning. thank you very much forjoining _ more concerning. thank you very much forjoining us. _ more concerning. thank you very much forjoining us. great i more concerning. thank you very much forjoining us. great to i much forjoining us. great to have you on the programme. thank you very much. the us state of north carolina has enacted a law banning most abortions after 12 weeks of pregnancy after the state's republican—controlled general assembly successfully overrode a veto from the democratic governor. the law bans abortions after the first trimester, except in cases of rape, incest, life—limiting fatal anomalies and medical emergencies. republicans gained a veto—proof majority in the legislature last month when a democratic member switched parties. we heard from the white house a short time ago. in a statement, press secretary karinejean—pierre said:

us presidentjoe biden says he'll cut short a planned tour of asia this week as he negotiates to avoid a us debt default next month. biden held emergency talks at the white house with congressional leaders earlier, including republican house speaker kevin mccarthy. it ended with cautious optimism among the leaders, who are hopeful a deal to raise the us debt ceiling is within reach. on monday, us treasury secretary janet yellen warned again that the us could run out of money by the first ofjune if congress fails to raise or suspend the debt ceiling. if it defaults on its debt, it will have broad and severe impacts on the us and other global economies. president biden remains confident economic catastrophe will be avoided. our north america correspondent nomia iqbal has more from the white house. the meeting i sever more than an hour and the meeting i sever more than an hourand like the meeting i sever more than an hour and like last week both sides came out and gave their version of events. the speaker

of the house kevin mccarthy and the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell struck a more optimistic tone, they went as bitter as last time. they had both accused the president of not negotiating or compromising. the democrats came out and chuck schumer and accuse the republicans are not taking default of the table and using it as a negotiating tactic. i put to kevin mccarthy if they had taken default at the table this time he sidestepped the question appointed to the bill that the house republicans are dried about but he did say that neither side wants default. that was actually that had progressed in this meeting. he was also asked about how the world is looking at america right now and if it does default, what the global implications would be. i default, what the global implications would be. i think america is— implications would be. i think america is the _ implications would be. i think america is the number-1 i implications would be. i think- america is the number-1 economy america is the number—1 economy in the world and when we get on with these negotiations, american economy will be stronger because it will make the american economy stronger put more people back to work lifting the amount of poverty

and lowering energy costs, and more importantly, curving our spending from the runaway. as the world looks around and look backin the world looks around and look back in america saying we were spending too much, they won't be able to say that soon. irate be able to say that soon. we all agreed — be able to say that soon. we all agreed that _ be able to say that soon. we all agreed that default is not an acceptable option and must be avoided. and we all agreed that over— be avoided. and we all agreed that over the next few weeks we have _ that over the next few weeks we have to — that over the next few weeks we have to proceed with the fierce urgency— have to proceed with the fierce urgency of now in order to make sure _ urgency of now in order to make sure we — urgency of now in order to make sure we can _ urgency of now in order to make sure we can reach that bipartisan, commonsense, common ground _ bipartisan, commonsense, common ground agreement so that we can protect— ground agreement so that we can protect the health and safety and economic well being of the american — and economic well being of the american people.— and economic well being of the american people. huge pressure to net american people. huge pressure to get this _ american people. huge pressure to get this done _ american people. huge pressure to get this done because - to get this done because president biden is off to japan tomorrow. then due to go to australia and papua new guinea but now cut shot that trip in order to get this over the line and i did ask mccarthy mcconnell if they put pressure to cut short the trip and if therefore the us was neglecting

its foreign obligations because theyjust its foreign obligations because they just can't find its foreign obligations because theyjust can't find a solution. they do not answer the question but mr mccarthy did say it is up to the president as to what he want to do with the schedule. still some sticking points to get through with the negotiations but bear in mind when they do reach a compromise that will probably take a week for it to get through congress so time is ticking for the congressional leaders to get this through. nominee are reporting there. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. while covid is no longer considered a world threat, today people in cambridge began trailing a new vaccine. and, crucially, there is not a needle insight. 50 crucially, there is not a needle insight.- crucially, there is not a needle insight. so it is a needleless _ needle insight. so it is a needleless technology l needle insight. so it is a i needleless technology and the devices put against the arm and the fluid containing the vaccine goes across into the skin, into the body. it is not

just the no more needles approach that is different about this vaccine. it approach that is different about this vaccine. it teaches our immune _ about this vaccine. it teaches our immune systems - about this vaccine. it teaches our immune systems to i about this vaccine. it teaches i our immune systems to recognise not only covid—19 but other closely related coronaviruses. it will broadly improve human health, will hopefully prevent a future pandemic.— a future pandemic. professor heaney developed _ a future pandemic. professor heaney developed the i a future pandemic. professor| heaney developed the vaccine a future pandemic. professor i heaney developed the vaccine in cambridge, but it is only now that people here and enrolled in a trial. this vaccine, if successful, just be good news for those who like needles. it could be manufactured as a powder, easy to transport, easy to store, and that could open up to store, and that could open up treatment around the world. you're live with bbc news. we start in ukraine. as kyiv cleans up after monday night's air raids, the country's supreme court has dismissed its top judge. vsevolod kniaziev was detained for allegedly taking multimillion—dollar bribes. prosecutors say he was arrested as part of their biggest ever anti—corru ption case. ukraine is under pressure to tackle corruption as a requirement forjoining the european union. meanwhile, ukrainian officials have praised their anti—missile defence system. overnight, it blocked

an intense barrage of russian rockets over the capital kyiv. they say the system shot down six advanced russian hypersonic missiles, which president putin has claimed are "unstoppable". our hugo bachega has more from kyiv on ukraine's air defence and what comes next. it was the eighth time this month kyiv came under attack but this attack was different. we heard a number of extremely loud explosions here in the capital at around 3am and we could see the work of the air defence systems destroying some of those missiles over the city. the ukrainian military said it had destroyed all 18 missiles that had been fired by russia, including six hypersonic missiles. this is significant because if confirmed, it shows the ability that ukraine has to destroy one of the most sophisticated weapons in russia's arsenal and this has only been possible because of the patriot defence systems which have been supplied to ukraine. there has been reaction from moscow. the defence ministry there said it had actually hit one of the systems, something that has not been confirmed by authorities here. these latest attacks came hours

after president zelensky finished a tour of european nations. he received a promise that billions of pounds worth of military assistance would be provided to his country and this includes a package from the uk with attack drones and also air defence missiles and as we are seeing here today these missiles have been vital in protecting towns and cities from these relentless russian air strikes. earlier, i spoke with the former us special envoy to ukraine, ambassador kurt volker, about the fallout from russia's strikes. ambassador, thank you for joining us on our programme. we have seen a barrage of ms allan drone strikes hit even

other cities in ukraine, ukraine said it has been able to repel bistros, is it tell us about ukraine's defences? several things, ukraine's air defences are more capable now than they were four, six months ago. that is the result of a lot of western assistance which could have been provided much earlier and they did suffer a lot of attacks in the autumn and then during the winter. now they are in a better position to repel these attacks. secondly, it tells you all so that ukraine's forces are doing a very good job on the front lines, they've taken back some territory around bakhmut and are preparing a counteroffensive. russia is again trying to use this to of attacking ukrainian civilian infrastructure and cities because it is not able to do much on the actual battlefield stop ambassador, what woke messy roster to do to react to see that ukraine's air defences are being able to repel these

attacks? i think we will see some experiments from the russian side, i think they will try waves, they will pause for a while and then have a massive attack, i think they will try high altitude launches again and hypersonic missiles. they will list force ukraine to use the patriot missile systems and tried to deplete those and the russians will probably also try to target ukraine's air defences, by firing somethings, sing with the defence is coming from, than trying to target those and see if they can weaken it, all of this, just have to say again, is incredibly cynical, because all it is is about targeting civilian populations. the russians want to kill the ukrainians. it is appalling that this is what the russian side of the wall looks like. irate side of the wall looks like. we soke to side of the wall looks like. we spoke to lieutenant colonel alexander vindman on the bbc, here is what he said. i alexander vindman on the bbc, here is what he said.— here is what he said. i think nato is really _ here is what he said. i think nato is really the _ here is what he said. i think nato is really the only i here is what he said. i think nato is really the only thing j nato is really the only thing that— nato is really the only thing that will satisfy the ukrainians and, frankly,

stability. ukrainians and, frankly, stability-— ukrainians and, frankly, i stability._ yes, i stability. do you agree? yes, i auree, stability. do you agree? yes, i agree. but _ stability. do you agree? yes, i agree. but i — stability. do you agree? yes, i agree, but i would _ stability. do you agree? yes, i agree, but i would raises- agree, but i would raises differently for different reasons. the first thing is that at the end of this complex, there is a war going on, but it will and someday, russia will attack ukraine again unless it is deterred. and there won't be any security assurance that russia will pay attention to if it does not involve the united states. the united states have to be —— has to be part of ensuring ukraine's security. they do not see any possibility of the united states would agree to this on a long—term perspective to protect ukraine and leave all of the other allies of the will. we would insist that if we are doing it everyone has to do it. and that means nato. and nato membership for ukraine will be the strongest deterrent to any future russian pressure. but nato members are split about ukraine's assertion into the alliance. do you think it's

realistic then that we reach the point where ukraine is accepted as a member? hat the point where ukraine is accepted as a member? not only do i think it's — accepted as a member? not only do i think it's realistic, _ accepted as a member? not only do i think it's realistic, is - do i think it's realistic, is already a nato commitment. back in 2008 nato said that ukraine will become a member of nato, wejust didn't put will become a member of nato, we just didn't put in place any practical steps. this past week i have been in various conferences in europe, in prague, meeting with europeans including germans, french, british, eastern europeans, central europeans, and they have to say that most of the european allies are ahead of the united states. they are thinking more seriously about ukrainian membership than we are hearing from washington right now. and i think the reason is because the eu has already decided that ukraine will be a member of the eu, there is no prospect for that to happen if ukraine is not secure and that is why nato membership make sense to most europeans. membership make sense to most europeans-—

europeans. what you the timeline _ europeans. what you the timeline would _ europeans. what you the timeline would be? i europeans. what you the timeline would be? we l europeans. what you the i timeline would be? we have a nato summit _ timeline would be? we have a nato summit in _ timeline would be? we have a nato summit in vilnius - timeline would be? we have a nato summit in vilnius and i timeline would be? we have a| nato summit in vilnius and just about six weeks' time. and there i think they needs to be a clear statement we are moving forward, we are beginning to operationalise nato's existing commitment to ukraine's nato membership. as to when that becomes real membership, when they are actually in the alliance, that may take a little while because they don't think people want to do that while a war is going on. no—one wants to say we're going join the war, but i do think we need to send a clear signal that this is where the endpoint is and i think that is important both for russia to hear, i think is for —— important for the ukrainians to hear, think it is important for economic recovery and investors and those who are trying to rebuild ukraine's economy knows that ukraine's economy knows that ukraine will be a secure country in the future. ambassador, thank you for joining us here on bbc. thank ou so joining us here on bbc. thank you so much _ joining us here on bbc. thank you so much having _ joining us here on bbc. thank you so much having the. i impeachment proceedings are under way against president guillermo

lasso of ecuador. opposition legislators accuse the president of embezzling funds from public companies, which lasso strongly denies. he is mounting an in—person defence at the ecuador national assembly to present his case, and seems ready to do whatever it takes to maintain his post. another to multiple estate in ecuadorian politics as the president made an impassioned plea to the opposition on congress to save his job or, as he put it, to save democracy in the andean nation. this says the andean nation. this says the charges against him are politically motivated. well, let's take a look at them, a suggestion from his opponents is he embezzled funds from public companies through a deal between a state run energy company and a private tanker company. he says that is nonsense, that he himself denounced the deal to the judiciary. he has to find out if around two—thirds, more than two—thirds of around 140 lawmakers voted against him, which would then depose him, remove him from office. but he

has a final constitutional trick up his sleeve, which is he can evoke something that translates as dead man's stand—off. that would dissolve parliament, he could then rule by decree for the six months before elections can be held. it is absolutely the last resort, but mr lasso has already indicated he would be prepared to use it. the country's most powerful indigenous rights organisation said they would oppose such a move and hold major protests and it has been known in the past that they can bring the entire country to a standstill when they do that. and all of this comes on top of a worsening security situation in the country, where the murder rate has worsened significantly. around 250% rise in the murder rate injust a two year period as mexican cartels are getting more and more involved with local normal

—— local criminal organisations over the control of keyboards and the cocaine trade to the united states and europe. the bbc�*s will grant. stay with us here on bbc news. thank you for watching. hello there. looks like high pressure will continue to bring a lot of fine and settled weather to the country for the rest of this week and into the weekend. temperatures will be climbing slightly, particularly where we have the sunshine. that said, there'll still be a few showers around and outbreaks of rain around the area of high pressure. so, this weather front will be bringing some wet weather to the north of scotland throughout the day on wednesday. now, the blue tinge is fading away for wednesday. we're starting to import that yellow and orange colour, so, the temperature�*s climbing a little bit. so in the sunny spots, it'll feel very pleasant through the afternoon, but it starts off chilly. lots of sunshine. then the clouds build again. showers, this time, affecting the southern half of britain. further north, it'll be dry with some sunshine. but north highlands, the northern isles, some heavy and persistent rain here with a stronger breeze, feeling quite cool.

but elsewhere again, it's the mid to high teens. and then through wednesday night, the showers fade away. many places will be dry. we'll see variable amounts of cloud around, probably more cloud around, i think, wednesday night than what we've had the recent night. so, that should stop temperatures in falling much below five to nine celsius. so, a little bit milder. so, here's the picture for thursday. high pressure bringing a lot of dry weather for most. this weather front, though, another weather front will start to push into western scotland and northern ireland through the day. so here, cloudier, breezy with some splashes of rain east in scotland, england and wales. the best of the sunny spells, though we will see some showers developing across southern and eastern england and we could see more cloud around, i think, into the afternoon. temperature wise, though, in the brightest spots, again, the high teens, the mid—teens, though, further north. that weather from pushes its way eastwards to bring a band of cloud and showers across england and wales for friday. so, a bit ofa mixed bag, i think, to end the working week. some sunny spells around, variable cloud, but also some showers. thanks to this weakening weather front, particularly across england and wales, and the odd one could be on the heavy side. in the sunshine, then temperatures again 17 or 18 degrees, but with more cloud around and i think it won't be quite as warm on friday

than what we'll see on thursday. into the weekend with high pressure dominating the scene for most. and it's going to be mainly dry, and settled once again with some good sunny spells. but weather fronts flirting with the north of the uk will, at times, bring thicker cloud, maybe some spots of rain to scotland and northern ireland. best of the sunshine, england and wales. and we could be into the low 20s in warmer spots.

voice—over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. acting is the most precarious of professions. adulation today can be followed by rejection tomorrow. the only certainty is uncertainty. it says much then of the talent and resilience of my guest today, jane horrocks,

that her acting career has spanned four decades and has seen her excel on stage and screen from comedies to musicals.