stars website, we gave them leaflets which _ stars website, we gave them leaflets which had _ stars website, we gave them leaflets which had been — stars website, we gave them leaflets which had been printed _ stars website, we gave them leaflets which had been printed by— which had been printed by westminster— which had been printed by westminster city - which had been printed by westminster city council, | which had been printed by. westminster city council, our which had been printed by- westminster city council, our high visibility— westminster city council, our high visibility vests, _ westminster city council, our high visibility vests, which _ westminster city council, our high visibility vests, which do _ westminster city council, our high visibility vests, which do display. visibility vests, which do display the met — visibility vests, which do display the met police _ visibility vests, which do display the met police logo _ visibility vests, which do display the met police logo as- visibility vests, which do display the met police logo as well- visibility vests, which do display- the met police logo as well because we are _ the met police logo as well because we are in_ the met police logo as well because we are in partnership _ the met police logo as well because we are in partnership with— the met police logo as well because we are in partnership with the - the met police logo as well because we are in partnership with the met. we are in partnership with the met police. _ we are in partnership with the met police. have — we are in partnership with the met police. have a _ we are in partnership with the met police, have a qr _ we are in partnership with the met police, have a qr code _ we are in partnership with the met police, have a qr code on- we are in partnership with the met police, have a qr code on them i we are in partnership with the met- police, have a qr code on them which looks_ police, have a qr code on them which looks back_ police, have a qr code on them which looks back to— police, have a qr code on them which looks back to the _ police, have a qr code on them which looks back to the westminster - police, have a qr code on them which looks back to the westminster city - looks back to the westminster city council _ looks back to the westminster city council website _ looks back to the westminster city council website as _ looks back to the westminster city council website as well. _ looks back to the westminster city council website as well. sorry- looks back to the westminster city council website as well.— council website as well. sorry to interrupt. _ council website as well. sorry to interrupt. did — council website as well. sorry to interrupt, did you _ council website as well. sorry to interrupt, did you say _ council website as well. sorry to interrupt, did you say you - council website as well. sorry to interrupt, did you say you work. council website as well. sorry to l interrupt, did you say you work in partnership with the metabolic and police? partnership with the metabolic and olice? . partnership with the metabolic and police? yes. 0k, sorry to interrupt ellow police? yes. 0k, sorry to interrupt yellow snow _ police? yes. 0k, sorry to interrupt yellow snow no — police? yes. 0k, sorry to interrupt yellow snow no problems! and so, we did the best that we could to try and explain who we were to the officers, and then they also searched the church that we based ourselves out of, and we were then taken in police vans to punters we were told we were going to be arrested and we were taken in police vans to woolworth police station where we were held, i was interviewed at approximately one clock in the afternoon the following day and then we were released a little bit after four o'clock on

saturday the 6th of may. that is such a long time for you to be detained is yes, it was. . i such a long time for you to be detained is yes, it was. . lam such a long time for you to be detained is yes, it was. . i am a bit speechless, actually, having heard that account of what happened to you. and your colleagues. well, thank you both for setting out so clearly what happened. that is very helpful to the committee. we are going to have some questions. so, lee anderson?— going to have some questions. so, lee anderson? thank you, chair. my cuestion lee anderson? thank you, chair. my question is — lee anderson? thank you, chair. my question is for— lee anderson? thank you, chair. my question is for graham. _ lee anderson? thank you, chair. my question is for graham. thank - lee anderson? thank you, chair. my question is for graham. thank you i question is for graham. thank you for coming, graham, today. after your arrest, and the time spent in the cells, my inbox sort of exploded a little bit, people were saying that it was white that he was arrested, he was described as a trouble because of, public nuisance, and he was just there to ruin people's day out, that is their words, not mine. i have looked at your website and it says that you embrace democracy. so, i guess my

question, only one question for you, is, if you embrace democracy so much, why don't you put your placards away and stand for election? i placards away and stand for election?— placards away and stand for election? ~ ., ., ., �*, election? i don't know that that's particularly _ election? i don't know that that's particularly relevant _ election? i don't know that that's particularly relevant to _ election? i don't know that that's particularly relevant to the - particularly relevant to the inquiry _ particularly relevant to the inquiry. l— particularly relevant to the inuui . ~ ., particularly relevant to the inuui . ~ . , inquiry. i think we are interested inquiry. i think we are interested in what happened _ inquiry. i think we are interested in what happened to _ inquiry. i think we are interested in what happened to you - inquiry. i think we are interested in what happened to you on - inquiry. i think we are interested in what happened to you on the l inquiry. i think we are interested i in what happened to you on the day and whether the law was appropriately applied right i am happy to tell you all about why we should be a republic but i think... we haven't got time to go into all of that today, i'm sure we would like to perhaps have that discussion.— like to perhaps have that discussion. . , , , ., discussion. that is my question. thank you _ discussion. that is my question. thank you very _ discussion. that is my question. thank you very much. _ discussion. that is my question. thank you very much. we - discussion. that is my question. thank you very much. we are i discussion. that is my question. i thank you very much. we are going discussion. that is my question. - thank you very much. we are going to go to alison next. find thank you very much. we are going to go to alison next.— go to alison next. and you. i wanted to ask can you _ go to alison next. and you. i wanted to ask can you tell— go to alison next. and you. i wanted to ask can you tell me _ go to alison next. and you. i wanted to ask can you tell me do _ go to alison next. and you. i wanted to ask can you tell me do you - go to alison next. and you. i wanted to ask can you tell me do you think | to ask can you tell me do you think the public— to ask can you tell me do you think the public order act will have a chilling — the public order act will have a chilling effect on peaceful process and if _ chilling effect on peaceful process and if so — chilling effect on peaceful process and if so why? i chilling effect on peaceful process and if so why?— and if so why? i mean, you have already heard _ and if so why? i mean, you have already heard the _ and if so why? i mean, you have already heard the evidence - and if so why? i mean, you have already heard the evidence that l and if so why? i mean, you havel already heard the evidence that it is having a chilling effect on peaceful protest, it has only been in force for about ten days. you heard evidence from mr smith that people didn't turn up and from their protest, which sounds like it would

have been an entirely lawful protest. i am really concerned that it will have a chilling effect. i think the main reason is that you have got these extremely wide offences, widely drawn offences, particularly coming equipped for looking on, which has, i think you have pointed out, could include sellotape, duct tape, a lot, luggage straps, it is almost anything you can imagine, really, could be used to lock on. but that is only the beginning of the powers, because thatis beginning of the powers, because that is a gateway offence within the scheme of the act, which allows police first of all to arrest and detain if they have reasonable belief and offence is going to be committed, but also to impose suspicion of search areas, so this is a tactic that has been taken from violent crime, gang to behaviour, and they are imposing it on peaceful protest. so what it means is an officer who has reasonable grounds to believe, for example, amongst other things, to believe, for example, amongst otherthings, knocking to believe, for example, amongst other things, knocking on offences

are going to be committed, and bearing in mind that you have heard the paraphernalia that can be used for knocking on happens to be the same as the paraphernalia people bring to protests to tie together signs and what have you, so you could include any particular protest, they can then search people without suspicion in that area for “p without suspicion in that area for up to 2a hours, they can also impose serious disorder prevention orders, serious disorder prevention orders, serious disruption prevention orders which will then potentially prevent people from entering areas and then lead to prison if they don't. and all of that picture, that package, for your average person, not your hardcore protester who is willing to risk arrest or prison and full respect to people, those people who are willing to put their beliefs on the line in that way, but the vast majority of people who turn up to protests are not those people, they are people who will be thinking, i don't want to be the susie, who was not even there for the protest, was

there for something else, i don't want to be caught in the dragnet of this public order act, i believe in this public order act, i believe in this course but i am not willing to risk myjob, risk being in the newspapers as a radical protester, because i have been arrested or detained, no smoke without fire and all of that. so i think you will see the chilling effect but also a radicalisation of people who end up protesting which will end up being a sulphur filling protesting which will end up being a sulphurfilling property in protesting which will end up being a sulphur filling property in a way. as an mp from scotland, people coming from scotland coming down to london to protest against the various measures that happen at this place, might not make that trip because they see it as a risk of not being able to get the train back or not being able to get back home in good time. not being able to get back home in aood time. �* .., . not being able to get back home in aood time. �* . , . not being able to get back home in aood time. �* , , ., , good time. because they are putting themselves in _ good time. because they are putting themselves in the _ good time. because they are putting themselves in the targets _ good time. because they are putting themselves in the targets of - good time. because they are putting themselves in the targets of this - themselves in the targets of this incredibly wide law, that i can entirely understand why they would be really worried, because being detained with a point graham made at the beginning was very important, i act for lots of people who have been

detained by police with because, without cause, it is an extremely traumatic experience, graham said he had his phone taken off him, and others did as well, these are really oppressive potential powers, they are necessary to prevent crime, but why would you risk... it turns peaceful protest into something which is a really important part of democracy, into something which is a real personal risk. find democracy, into something which is a real personal risk.— real personal risk. and cu, joanna. adam, real personal risk. and cu, joanna. adam. can — real personal risk. and cu, joanna. adam. can i— real personal risk. and cu, joanna. adam. can i ask — real personal risk. and cu, joanna. adam, can i ask you, _ real personal risk. and cu, joanna. adam, can i ask you, you - real personal risk. and cu, joanna. adam, can i ask you, you heard . real personal risk. and cu, joanna. | adam, can i ask you, you heard the evidence. _ adam, can i ask you, you heard the evidence. the — adam, can i ask you, you heard the evidence, the questions i asked the police _ evidence, the questions i asked the police officers about bouncing the ti l ht police officers about bouncing the right to _ police officers about bouncing the right to peaceful protest, balancing, with the need to protect those _ balancing, with the need to protect those who — balancing, with the need to protect those who might be impacted by such a protest. _ those who might be impacted by such a protest, do you think the metropolitan police, can you tell us a bit about— metropolitan police, can you tell us a bit about what you think the balance — a bit about what you think the balance should be as a matter of law, _ balance should be as a matter of law. and — balance should be as a matter of law, and whether you think the met police _ law, and whether you think the met police got— law, and whether you think the met police got the balance right the day of the _ police got the balance right the day of the correlation? is a police got the balance right the day of the correlation?— of the correlation? is a matter of law, of the correlation? is a matter of law. human _ of the correlation? is a matter of law, human rights _ of the correlation? is a matter of law, human rights law, - of the correlation? is a matter of law, human rights law, i- of the correlation? is a matter of law, human rights law, i think. of the correlation? is a matter ofl law, human rights law, i think the balance _ law, human rights law, i think the balance should _ law, human rights law, i think the balance should be _ law, human rights law, i think the balance should be very—

law, human rights law, i think the balance should be very clearly- law, human rights law, i think the balance should be very clearly oni balance should be very clearly on the basis — balance should be very clearly on the basis that _ balance should be very clearly on the basis that peaceful— balance should be very clearly on the basis that peaceful protest. balance should be very clearly on the basis that peaceful protest isj the basis that peaceful protest is permitted — the basis that peaceful protest is permitted unless _ the basis that peaceful protest is permitted unless it— the basis that peaceful protest is permitted unless it is— the basis that peaceful protest is permitted unless it is likely- the basis that peaceful protest is permitted unless it is likely to. permitted unless it is likely to lead _ permitted unless it is likely to lead to— permitted unless it is likely to lead to violence. _ permitted unless it is likely to lead to violence. and - permitted unless it is likely to lead to violence. and there i permitted unless it is likely to. lead to violence. and there may permitted unless it is likely to- lead to violence. and there may be some _ lead to violence. and there may be some wriqqle — lead to violence. and there may be some wriggle room _ lead to violence. and there may be some wriggle room around - lead to violence. and there may be some wriggle room around that - lead to violence. and there may be i some wriggle room around that where you have _ some wriggle room around that where you have for— some wriggle room around that where you have for example _ some wriggle room around that where you have for example blocking - some wriggle room around that where you have for example blocking the - you have for example blocking the highway — you have for example blocking the highway, committing _ you have for example blocking the highway, committing criminal- highway, committing criminal offences. _ highway, committing criminal offences, but— highway, committing criminal offences, but in— highway, committing criminal offences, but in a _ highway, committing criminal offences, but in a democratic| offences, but in a democratic society. _ offences, but in a democratic society, protest _ offences, but in a democratic society, protest is— offences, but in a democratic society, protest is a - offences, but in a democratic society, protest is a very - offences, but in a democratic- society, protest is a very important way of _ society, protest is a very important way of communicating, _ society, protest is a very important way of communicating, citizens - way of communicating, citizens communicating _ way of communicating, citizens communicating with _ way of communicating, citizens communicating with the - way of communicating, citizens communicating with the people way of communicating, citizens . communicating with the people in power. _ communicating with the people in power. and — communicating with the people in power. and that— communicating with the people in power, and that should _ communicating with the people in power, and that should be - communicating with the people in - power, and that should be preserved. ithink— power, and that should be preserved. i think the _ power, and that should be preserved. i think the problem _ power, and that should be preserved. i think the problem with _ power, and that should be preserved. i think the problem with this - power, and that should be preserved. i think the problem with this public i i think the problem with this public order— i think the problem with this public order act. — i think the problem with this public orderact. and _ i think the problem with this public order act, and also _ i think the problem with this public order act, and also the _ i think the problem with this public order act, and also the police - i think the problem with this public order act, and also the police and i order act, and also the police and act is. _ order act, and also the police and act is. whether— order act, and also the police and act is, whether you _ order act, and also the police and act is, whether you describe - order act, and also the police and act is, whether you describe it- order act, and also the police and act is, whether you describe it asi order act, and also the police and | act is, whether you describe it as a balance _ act is, whether you describe it as a balance or— act is, whether you describe it as a balance or a — act is, whether you describe it as a balance or a human— act is, whether you describe it as a balance or a human rights- act is, whether you describe it as a balance or a human rights at- act is, whether you describe it as a balance or a human rights at the l act is, whether you describe it as a. balance or a human rights at the top of the _ balance or a human rights at the top of the hierarchy— balance or a human rights at the top of the hierarchy or _ balance or a human rights at the top of the hierarchy or however - balance or a human rights at the top of the hierarchy or however you - of the hierarchy or however you conceptualise _ of the hierarchy or however you conceptualise it, _ of the hierarchy or however you conceptualise it, undoubtedly, i of the hierarchy or however you . conceptualise it, undoubtedly, this legislation— conceptualise it, undoubtedly, this legislation is— conceptualise it, undoubtedly, this legislation is changing _ conceptualise it, undoubtedly, this legislation is changing the - conceptualise it, undoubtedly, this| legislation is changing the balance, because _ legislation is changing the balance, because what — legislation is changing the balance, because what it _ legislation is changing the balance, because what it does _ legislation is changing the balance, because what it does is, _ legislation is changing the balance, because what it does is, it- because what it does is, it turns something — because what it does is, it turns something which— because what it does is, it turns something which used _ because what it does is, it turns something which used to - because what it does is, it turns something which used to be - because what it does is, it turns| something which used to be part because what it does is, it turns i something which used to be part of the accepted — something which used to be part of the accepted impact, _ something which used to be part of the accepted impact, collateral- the accepted impact, collateral impact — the accepted impact, collateral impact of— the accepted impact, collateral impact of a _ the accepted impact, collateral impact of a protest, _ the accepted impact, collateral impact of a protest, which - the accepted impact, collateral impact of a protest, which is i impact of a protest, which is disruption. _ impact of a protest, which is disruption, into— impact of a protest, which is disruption, into a _ impact of a protest, which is disruption, into a crime. - impact of a protest, which is| disruption, into a crime. and impact of a protest, which is - disruption, into a crime. and once

you do— disruption, into a crime. and once you do that. — disruption, into a crime. and once you do that. it— disruption, into a crime. and once you do that, it makes— disruption, into a crime. and once you do that, it makes it _ disruption, into a crime. and once you do that, it makes it seem - disruption, into a crime. and once you do that, it makes it seem like| you do that, it makes it seem like all protests. — you do that, it makes it seem like all protests, for— you do that, it makes it seem like all protests, for example - you do that, it makes it seem like all protests, for example political| all protests, for example political protests. — all protests, for example political protests, which _ all protests, for example political protests, which a _ all protests, for example political protests, which a lot _ all protests, for example political protests, which a lot of _ all protests, for example political protests, which a lot of protest. all protests, for example politicali protests, which a lot of protest is, is itself— protests, which a lot of protest is, is itself a — protests, which a lot of protest is, is itself a bad _ protests, which a lot of protest is, is itself a bad thing _ protests, which a lot of protest is, is itself a bad thing for— protests, which a lot of protest is, is itself a bad thing for society. . is itself a bad thing for society. and i_ is itself a bad thing for society. and i think— is itself a bad thing for society. and i think the _ is itself a bad thing for society. and i think the problem - is itself a bad thing for society. and i think the problem with. is itself a bad thing for society. . and i think the problem with that is, and i think the problem with that is. in _ and i think the problem with that is. in a _ and i think the problem with that is, in a democratic _ and i think the problem with that is, in a democratic society, - is, in a democratic society, peaceful— is, in a democratic society, peaceful protest— is, in a democratic society, peaceful protest in - is, in a democratic society, peaceful protest in humani is, in a democratic society, - peaceful protest in human rights law but also _ peaceful protest in human rights law but also in _ peaceful protest in human rights law but also in our— peaceful protest in human rights law but also in our british _ peaceful protest in human rights law but also in our british tradition, - but also in our british tradition, is a political— but also in our british tradition, is a political issue, _ but also in our british tradition, is a political issue, it _ but also in our british tradition, is a political issue, it is - but also in our british tradition, is a political issue, it is a - but also in our british tradition, | is a political issue, it is a matter for politicians. _ is a political issue, it is a matter for politicians. and _ is a political issue, it is a matter for politicians. and what - is a political issue, it is a matter for politicians. and what this - for politicians. and what this legislation— for politicians. and what this legislation does— for politicians. and what this legislation does is, - for politicians. and what this legislation does is, it - for politicians. and what this legislation does is, it turns l for politicians. and what this| legislation does is, it turns it very— legislation does is, it turns it very much— legislation does is, it turns it very much into _ legislation does is, it turns it very much into a _ legislation does is, it turns it very much into a police - legislation does is, it turns iti very much into a police issue, legislation does is, it turns it. very much into a police issue, a public— very much into a police issue, a public order— very much into a police issue, a public order issue, _ very much into a police issue, a public order issue, so, - very much into a police issue, a public order issue, so, with- very much into a police issue, a public order issue, so, with the| public order issue, so, with the greatest — public order issue, so, with the greatest of— public order issue, so, with the greatest of respect _ public order issue, so, with the greatest of respect to - public order issue, so, with the greatest of respect to matt - public order issue, so, with thei greatest of respect to matt twist and the — greatest of respect to matt twist and the metropolitan _ greatest of respect to matt twist and the metropolitan police, - greatest of respect to matt twisti and the metropolitan police, who will try— and the metropolitan police, who will try to — and the metropolitan police, who will try to deal _ and the metropolitan police, who will try to deal with _ and the metropolitan police, who will try to deal with that - and the metropolitan police, who will try to deal with that balance, j will try to deal with that balance, if will try to deal with that balance, it the _ will try to deal with that balance, it the scales— will try to deal with that balance, if the scales are _ will try to deal with that balance, if the scales are being _ will try to deal with that balance, if the scales are being tipped - will try to deal with that balance, if the scales are being tipped asi if the scales are being tipped as they are — if the scales are being tipped as they are by— if the scales are being tipped as they are by this— if the scales are being tipped as they are by this legislation, - if the scales are being tipped as they are by this legislation, it . if the scales are being tipped as they are by this legislation, it is going _ they are by this legislation, it is going to — they are by this legislation, it is going to be _ they are by this legislation, it is going to be very _ they are by this legislation, it is going to be very, very- they are by this legislation, it is going to be very, very difficult i they are by this legislation, it is. going to be very, very difficult for them _ going to be very, very difficult for them to— going to be very, very difficult for them to achieve _ going to be very, very difficult for them to achieve the _ going to be very, very difficult for them to achieve the right - going to be very, very difficult for them to achieve the right balance going to be very, very difficult for. them to achieve the right balance in a democracy — them to achieve the right balance in a democracy inst— them to achieve the right balance in a democracy-— a democracy. just looking at the evidence that _ a democracy. just looking at the evidence that susie _ a democracy. just looking at the evidence that susie and - a democracy. just looking at the evidence that susie and graham| a democracy. just looking at the - evidence that susie and graham have given us, i mean, i

evidence that susie and graham have given us, i mean, lam evidence that susie and graham have given us, i mean, i am qualified evidence that susie and graham have given us, i mean, lam qualified in law north of the border, you are qualified in law south of the border, in scotland, we have a concept of wrongful arrest and arrest where there are not proper grounds for it, or where somebody�*s human rights have been breached, people can sue for wrongful arrest, can't? and to seek damages for the trauma? when there was no good reason for the arrest, is it the same in england?— reason for the arrest, is it the same in england? reason for the arrest, is it the same in encland? , ., ., same in england? yes, it would also be a false imprisonment _ same in england? yes, it would also be a false imprisonment as - same in england? yes, it would also be a false imprisonment as well. - same in england? yes, it would also be a false imprisonment as well. 0r| be a false imprisonment as well. or an unlawful detention. so, if there was no reasonable grounds for arrest... the one thing that mr twist did mention is there does not just have to be reasonable grounds, there also has to be a necessity to arrest, it is a two—part test. so, you can have a suspicion but thank you can have a suspicion but thank you also have to look, the officer in charge, at the circumstances and say, well, yes, i have that suspicion, but do i need to arrest, is it necessary to arrest and detain

this person? and you have to ask the question... it is difficult to know without seeing the full facts of any case what the legal answer is, but yes, i mean, isuspect that case what the legal answer is, but yes, i mean, i suspect that we will see what the outcome... i suspect you will see as much as mr twist was defending those actions, i suspect there will be some fairly swift settlements of those cases. mr smith, can i preface my question to you by saying i am sure there are people on this committee who fundamentally disagree with your views and those of your organisation and those who fundamentally agree, thatis and those who fundamentally agree, that is not the point of the questioning, all of us are agreed on your right to protest your course, theissueis your right to protest your course, the issue is the proportionality and the issue is the proportionality and the policing of that. can you tell me what you and your organisation hoped to achieve on the day of the coronation? taste hoped to achieve on the day of the coronation?— coronation? we were very clear in the run-op _ coronation? we were very clear in the run-op to _ coronation? we were very clear in the run-up to this _ coronation? we were very clear in the run-up to this that _ coronation? we were very clear in the run-up to this that we - coronation? we were very clear in the run-up to this that we wanted j coronation? we were very clear in i the run-up to this that we wanted to the run—up to this that we wanted to essentially challenge what in our

view was not a national celebration but a foil and state celebration which polls were showing a minority were enthusiastic about, we wanted to use the opportunity to get our message across, which is that in a democracy we should have an election instead of a coronation, and instead of being told it is going to be charles, we should have a choice, and we wanted to be very clear in front of the world's cameras that we are not a nation of loyalists, and whilst that view is often projected in the media, the polling shows that the people's views are quite nuanced and divided so we wanted to create that debate and get people's voices heard, i appreciate that obviously still a majority support the potential of the monarchy but the polling is very different. so like any protest group we wanted to be very clear about our message and get it out to a wide audience. you very clear about our message and get it out to a wide audience.— it out to a wide audience. you think actually you — it out to a wide audience. you think actually you were _ it out to a wide audience. you think actually you were more _ it out to a wide audience. you think actually you were more successful. it out to a wide audience. you think| actually you were more successful in getting publicity for your organisation and your cause by the fact that eight of your members including you were arrested, which seems to have scored rather more

headlines and today's proceedings here, than if none of you have been arrested at all? i here, than if none of you have been arrested at all?— arrested at all? i would not say the word successful, _ arrested at all? i would not say the word successful, i _ arrested at all? i would not say the word successful, i would _ arrested at all? i would not say the word successful, i would say - arrested at all? i would not say the word successful, i would say that i word successful, i would say that thatis word successful, i would say that that is the case that we had more coverage, it was not a success in the sense that we did not aim to do that and i would not wish to do that, it was a very heavy price to pay for that coverage both in terms of the loss of liberty of eight of our people both staff and volunteers for a whole day and all the stress that comes with that, as well as the very serious impact on people's right to protest, i would much rather that the police had honoured their assurances and allowed us to get on with protest anger you just said that youraim get on with protest anger you just said that your aim was to get publicity for your cause and that is perfectly reasonable but by having those eight people arrested and what has subsequently happened made it impossible to ignore, which is what you wanted, wasn't it? yes, but as i said it was not our objective, so,

successful for us, said it was not our objective, so, successfulfor us, we said it was not our objective, so, successful for us, we were very clear, a successful day for us was to be able to peacefully protest, to have speeches, to be near the procession, which is and during that peaceful protest to attract attention through the national and international media, so come of that was successful in our mind and that did not happen. so, yes, by implication, or whatever, as a result of those arrests, we got much more publicity, but that is not successful in our minds as a campaign. successful in our minds as a campaign-— successful in our minds as a campaign. successful in our minds as a camairn.~ . ., ., campaign. what out of those intended activities would _ campaign. what out of those intended activities would have _ campaign. what out of those intended activities would have made _ campaign. what out of those intended activities would have made it - activities would have made it impossible to ignore? the activities would have made it impossible to ignore? the fact that we were there _ impossible to ignore? the fact that we were there in _ impossible to ignore? the fact that we were there in fairly _ impossible to ignore? the fact that we were there in fairly large - we were there in fairly large numbers right on the edge of the procession and we had other protests along the route and by doing that we were engaging with the media who would have said, the broadcast media would have said, the broadcast media would have said, the broadcast media would have had another location to engage with the fact that there was a diversity of opinion around the issue. it a diversity of opinion around the issue. �* ., , , issue. it didn't happen, did it because i— issue. it didn't happen, did it because i can't _ issue. it didn't happen, did it because i can't recall - issue. it didn't happen, did it because i can't recall any - issue. it didn't happen, did it - because i can't recall any footage of your organisation protesters in trafalgar square? i absolutely

recall what happened to eight of your protesters.— recall what happened to eight of your protesters. indeed and i will be takin: your protesters. indeed and i will be taking that — your protesters. indeed and i will be taking that up _ your protesters. indeed and i will be taking that up with _ your protesters. indeed and i will be taking that up with the - your protesters. indeed and i will be taking that up with the bbc, l be taking that up with the bbc, because i have complained to their many times that their coverage of royal events is atrocious, the fact they did not cover it is something you will have to take up with them and look we can all complain about the bbc in various terms, but on the website, i quote, the bbc in various terms, but on the website, iquote, it the bbc in various terms, but on the website, i quote, it says on saturday the 6th of may, the eyes of the world will be on the coronation, this is the moment we make our objection loud, visible and impossible to ignore. and inviting people to sign up for that. so, what really was your intention? doesn't anybody reading that get the impression that actually there was something rather more severe planned than a peaceful demonstration involving a few placards which may or may not be ferried to the place of protest by some combination luggage straps? we have a history of peaceful

process. _ we have a history of peaceful process, we had a clear idea what that will— process, we had a clear idea what that will look like, we had about 2000 _ that will look like, we had about 2000 people telling us they would be there and _ 2000 people telling us they would be there and there would be a must in a crowd _ there and there would be a must in a crowd in— there and there would be a must in a crowd in trafalgar square. if the cameras — crowd in trafalgar square. if the cameras and the bbc and everyone else was— cameras and the bbc and everyone else was coming out reasonably and fairly you _ else was coming out reasonably and fairly you would see it as part of the coronation coverage. whether that worked i don't know but that was the _ that worked i don't know but that was the plan. we are a peaceful campaign — was the plan. we are a peaceful campaign group, we always have been and we _ campaign group, we always have been and we have _ campaign group, we always have been and we have never had any intention of causing _ and we have never had any intention of causing any disruption. as we have _ of causing any disruption. as we have made — of causing any disruption. as we have made clear to notjust the met police _ have made clear to notjust the met police but— have made clear to notjust the met police but every other force. so it is not _ police but every other force. so it is not reasonable to make any conclusions... is not reasonable to make any conclusions. . ._ conclusions... what is your definition _ conclusions... what is your definition of _ conclusions... what is your definition of disruption? i conclusions... what is your | definition of disruption? you conclusions... what is your - definition of disruption? you said you had microphones, the majority of people who located themselves on the route were there to enjoy the spectacle, the bands in the music that went with it, do you not agree that went with it, do you not agree that if you have somebody bellowing with the use of a marathon —— microphone and loudspeakers, things that were contrary to people, what

people had come there to see, that is destructive for the hundreds of thousands of people who have come there to enjoy the music and everything that goes with it? arguably, yes. but there were people there were _ arguably, yes. but there were people there were there to do straight support— there were there to do straight support for the monarchy and people there who _ support for the monarchy and people there who work there to demonstrate their opposition. both had equal rights _ their opposition. both had equal rights to— their opposition. both had equal rights to be there were far were far more _ rights to be there were far were far more of— rights to be there were far were far more of them so therefore the noise from there _ more of them so therefore the noise from there would be louder than us. there _ from there would be louder than us. there were — from there would be louder than us. there were more of them so they would _ there were more of them so they would be — there were more of them so they would be more visible, there was plenty— would be more visible, there was plenty of— would be more visible, there was plenty of space where people could watch _ plenty of space where people could watch the _ plenty of space where people could watch the procession... why plenty of space where people could watch the procession. . ._ watch the procession... why is it necessary _ watch the procession... why is it necessary to _ watch the procession... why is it necessary to have _ watch the procession... why is it necessary to have microphones i watch the procession... why is it i necessary to have microphones and loudspeakers equipment if it was not intended to be disruptive? the disruption _ intended to be disruptive? the disruption we _ intended to be disruptive? the disruption we are talking about in the context of this disruption is the context of this disruption is the disruption of locking on, getting _ the disruption of locking on, getting into the boot and that sort of thinq~ _ getting into the boot and that sort of thing. talk about disruption in terms _ of thing. talk about disruption in terms of— of thing. talk about disruption in terms of diminishing their pr, that's— terms of diminishing their pr, that's a — terms of diminishing their pr, that's a different matter. is a microphone _ that's a different matter. is a microphone and _ that's a different matter. is a microphone and the - that's a different matter. is — microphone and the use of loudspeakers when people are there to listen and take in the spectacle not by your own definition disruptive, which is what you

actually intended to be? obviously rotest actually intended to be? obviously protest wants _ actually intended to be? obviously protest wants to _ actually intended to be? obviously protest wants to be... _ actually intended to be? obviously protest wants to be... is _ actually intended to be? obviously protest wants to be... is it - protest wants to be... is it disruptive _ protest wants to be... is it disruptive or _ protest wants to be... is it disruptive or not? - protest wants to be... is it disruptive or not? only - protest wants to be... is it disruptive or not? only in | protest wants to be... is it i disruptive or not? only in the protest wants to be... is it - disruptive or not? only in the sense that it is disrupting _ disruptive or not? only in the sense that it is disrupting the _ disruptive or not? only in the sense that it is disrupting the pr - disruptive or not? only in the sense that it is disrupting the pr aspect i that it is disrupting the pr aspect of the _ that it is disrupting the pr aspect of the parade. it�*s that it is disrupting the pr aspect of the parade-— that it is disrupting the pr aspect of the parade. it's about hundreds of the parade. it's about hundreds of thousands _ of the parade. it's about hundreds of thousands of _ of the parade. it's about hundreds of thousands of people _ of the parade. it's about hundreds of thousands of people who - of the parade. it's about hundreds of thousands of people who come | of the parade. it's about hundreds l of thousands of people who come to enjoy the spectacle. the use of a microphone and loudspeakers to drown over that noises by your own definition disruptive which is what your intention was, was not? taste your intention was, was not? we raised these matters with the police and there _ raised these matters with the police and there were very clear did not breach— and there were very clear did not breach the — and there were very clear did not breach the law simply because we not physically— breach the law simply because we not physically disrupt the peace because there are _ physically disrupt the peace because there are many more of them than of us so _ there are many more of them than of us so even _ there are many more of them than of us so even with amplification, they have no— us so even with amplification, they have no concerns about it. and i should _ have no concerns about it. and i should say— have no concerns about it. and i should say again they were abundantly clear that they had no concerns — abundantly clear that they had no concerns about any of our plans whatsoever, right up until friday the 5th _ whatsoever, right up until friday the 5th of— whatsoever, right up until friday the 5th of may. so these are not disruptive — the 5th of may. so these are not disruptive in the sense that you're trying _ disruptive in the sense that you're trying to— disruptive in the sense that you're trying to suggest. disruptive in the sense that you're trying to suggest-—

disruptive in the sense that you're trying to suggest. thank you. adam, as a politician _ trying to suggest. thank you. adam, as a politician i _ trying to suggest. thank you. adam, as a politician i have _ trying to suggest. thank you. adam, as a politician i have been _ trying to suggest. thank you. adam, as a politician i have been on - as a politician i have been on protest, i have been out in parliament square whether whole load of menopausal women and we have had oursay of menopausal women and we have had our say and we have had an opportunity to vent how we're feeling. do you what happened on that day is going to stop that kind of passive protest and it's going to see aggressive protesting where people would be afraid, people like me who don't want to get into trouble with the police, would be afraid to have our say on the door would be open to more aggressive protesting? i would be open to more aggressive ”rotestin ? .. . would be open to more aggressive ”rotestin ? ~ , ., ., , protesting? i think this language is really interesting, _ protesting? i think this language is really interesting, disruption, - really interesting, disruption, aggressive protest. passive protest. protest— aggressive protest. passive protest. protest is— aggressive protest. passive protest. protest is about getting yourself heard _ protest is about getting yourself heard by, particularly by people in power— heard by, particularly by people in power but — heard by, particularly by people in power but also by your fellow citizens _ power but also by your fellow citizens i_ power but also by your fellow citizens. i think in a way to perfect _ citizens. i think in a way to perfect protest movement is a mass protest _ perfect protest movement is a mass protest movement were you have lots

of people _ protest movement were you have lots of people who agree because you have convinced _ of people who agree because you have convinced them that that is the right— convinced them that that is the right method, the right idea. and the problem, these laws are really focusing _ the problem, these laws are really focusing in— the problem, these laws are really focusing in on this mass protest movements and they are making them a lot more _ movements and they are making them a lot more difficult to organise. the genesis— lot more difficult to organise. the genesis of— lot more difficult to organise. the genesis of the powers and the public order— genesis of the powers and the public order bill— genesis of the powers and the public order bill came originally after extinction rebellion, they were not a response — extinction rebellion, they were not a response to insulated britain and road blockages, there are about the mass _ road blockages, there are about the mass protests of extension rebellion which _ mass protests of extension rebellion which for— mass protests of extension rebellion which for them most popular peaceful creative _ which for them most popular peaceful creative and engaging, they engaged people _ creative and engaging, they engaged people with ideas, they were politically focused. and i think we should _ politically focused. and i think we should be — politically focused. and i think we should be encouraging that in society — should be encouraging that in society, one of the reasons is we want _ society, one of the reasons is we want new — society, one of the reasons is we want new ideas, it's really important, but the other reason is it is all— important, but the other reason is it is all seen, a good democracy understands that protest is the release — understands that protest is the release of a safety valve, it's a release — release of a safety valve, it's a release of _ release of a safety valve, it's a release of pressure, to allow people to go— release of pressure, to allow people to go out _ release of pressure, to allow people to go out and say, this is what i

feel and — to go out and say, this is what i feel and this is important to me, and to— feel and this is important to me, and to do— feel and this is important to me, and to do it _ feel and this is important to me, and to do it in a way which is a bargain. — and to do it in a way which is a bargain, and in the case law and courts— bargain, and in the case law and courts they— bargain, and in the case law and courts they talk about civil disobedience and the bargain between the society and the individuals. it is worrying, you heard this question which _ is worrying, you heard this question which we _ is worrying, you heard this question which we were quite sinister. —— which _ which we were quite sinister. —— which were _ which we were quite sinister. —— which were quite sinister. the question. _ which were quite sinister. the question, you bring a loudspeaker to a coronation, to a political event, it is not— a coronation, to a political event, it is notjust — a coronation, to a political event, it is notjust everybody a coronation, to a political event, it is not just everybody enjoying themselves, it is a highly political event. _ themselves, it is a highly political event. the — themselves, it is a highly political event, the coronation of a constitutional monarchy in a system where _ constitutional monarchy in a system where people disagree and agree vehemently whether they should or should _ vehemently whether they should or should not be a king and i think the idea that _ should not be a king and i think the idea that you could not bring a loudspeaker to a protest, which is almost _ loudspeaker to a protest, which is almost the — loudspeaker to a protest, which is almost the bread—and—butter of mass protests. _ almost the bread—and—butter of mass protests, loudspeaker, amplification, is really worrying. i think— amplification, is really worrying. i think that's — amplification, is really worrying. i think that's the direction of travel that you — think that's the direction of travel that you have politicians saying,

well. _ that you have politicians saying, well. you — that you have politicians saying, well, you are just trying to disrupt things— well, you are just trying to disrupt things with — well, you are just trying to disrupt things with your loudspeaker, by qettinqm — things with your loudspeaker, by getting... people were just enjoying themselves. i think that is worrying for democracy and i think we are in the early— for democracy and i think we are in the early stages of it, think we need _ the early stages of it, think we need to— the early stages of it, think we need to take a cheque now. congratulations on the work you do. we have done similar work on street pastors. it is so important, the work you do and i thank you for that. has what happened to you put you off volunteering or will it put other people off actually becoming involved in something that could end up, because of what happened to you, potential difficult circumstances? soul, it hasn't put me off personally _ soul, it hasn't put me off personally, but _ soul, it hasn't put me off personally, but i - soul, it hasn't put me off personally, but i can- soul, it hasn't put me off- personally, but i can certainly see that it _ personally, but i can certainly see that it would _ personally, but i can certainly see that it would dissuade _ personally, but i can certainly see that it would dissuade other- personally, but i can certainly see. that it would dissuade other people from volunteering, _ that it would dissuade other people from volunteering, if— that it would dissuade other people from volunteering, if there - that it would dissuade other people from volunteering, if there is - that it would dissuade other people from volunteering, if there is a - from volunteering, if there is a risk that— from volunteering, if there is a risk that you _ from volunteering, if there is a risk that you could _ from volunteering, if there is a risk that you could be - from volunteering, if there is a risk that you could be arrested| from volunteering, if there is a - risk that you could be arrested and detained _ risk that you could be arrested and detained in — risk that you could be arrested and detained in the _ risk that you could be arrested and detained in the course _ risk that you could be arrested and detained in the course of- risk that you could be arrested and detained in the course of carrying. detained in the course of carrying out your— detained in the course of carrying out your volunteering. _ detained in the course of carrying out your volunteering. so - detained in the course of carrying out your volunteering. so it - detained in the course of carrying out your volunteering. so it is - detained in the course of carrying out your volunteering. so it is a l out your volunteering. so it is a

worry — out your volunteering. so it is a wor . . . out your volunteering. so it is a wor . . , . ~ out your volunteering. so it is a wor . . , a , ., worry. one last quick question. the fact that you _ worry. one last quick question. the fact that you go _ worry. one last quick question. the fact that you go out _ worry. one last quick question. the fact that you go out on _ worry. one last quick question. the fact that you go out on a _ worry. one last quick question. the fact that you go out on a regular . fact that you go out on a regular basis, throughout your ordeal, did you encounter any police officer that you knew from your previous trips out? that you knew from your previous tri -s out? ., ,., . that you knew from your previous trisout? ., . . , trips out? no, the police officers who were dealing _ trips out? no, the police officers who were dealing with _ trips out? no, the police officers who were dealing with us - trips out? no, the police officers who were dealing with us were i trips out? no, the police officers i who were dealing with us were from a separate _ who were dealing with us were from a separate area — who were dealing with us were from a separate area from _ who were dealing with us were from a separate area from london. _ who were dealing with us were from a separate area from london. the - who were dealing with us were from a| separate area from london. the areas that they— separate area from london. the areas that they normally— separate area from london. the areas that they normally cover _ separate area from london. the areas that they normally cover did _ separate area from london. the areas that they normally cover did have i that they normally cover did have similar— that they normally cover did have similar organisations _ that they normally cover did have similar organisations as- that they normally cover did have similar organisations as well- that they normally cover did have similar organisations as well and i that they normally cover did have | similar organisations as well and i did give _ similar organisations as well and i did give the — similar organisations as well and i did give the names _ similar organisations as well and i did give the names of— similar organisations as well and i did give the names of some - similar organisations as well and i did give the names of some of- similar organisations as well and i| did give the names of some of the officers _ did give the names of some of the officers that — did give the names of some of the officers that i— did give the names of some of the officers that i do _ did give the names of some of the officers that i do know— did give the names of some of the officers that i do know from - did give the names of some of the officers that i do know from the i officers that i do know from the soho _ officers that i do know from the soho area — officers that i do know from the soho area and _ officers that i do know from the soho area and i— officers that i do know from the soho area and i don't— officers that i do know from the soho area and i don't believe i officers that i do know from the i soho area and i don't believe that any of— soho area and i don't believe that any of them — soho area and i don't believe that any of them are _ soho area and i don't believe that any of them are contacted. - soho area and i don't believe that any of them are contacted.- any of them are contacted. thank ou. we any of them are contacted. thank you- we now— any of them are contacted. thank you. we now move _ any of them are contacted. thank you. we now move to _ any of them are contacted. thank you. we now move to james i any of them are contacted. thank i you. we now move to james tilley. can ijust check you. we now move to james tilley. can i just check what of the hearing can ijust check what of the hearing finishes? _ can ijust check what of the hearing finishes? we can i just check what of the hearing finishes? ~ . ~ , �* , finishes? we have prime minister's questions at _ finishes? we have prime minister's questions at noon _ finishes? we have prime minister's questions at noon so _ finishes? we have prime minister's questions at noon so we _ finishes? we have prime minister's questions at noon so we do - finishes? we have prime minister's questions at noon so we do try i finishes? we have prime minister's questions at noon so we do try and finish before then. i'm conscious people have questions they want to ask so i will let it run a little bit. ~ . ask so i will let it run a little bit. ~

bit. mr wachner, you're here as a olitical bit. mr wachner, you're here as a political activist, _ bit. mr wachner, you're here as a political activist, you're _ bit. mr wachner, you're here as a political activist, you're giving i political activist, you're giving political activist, you're giving political opinions, calling the colleague sinister is a new one for this committee. but if you're here as a political activist and you have said political views, it was up to the committee who they wanted to invite a. �* . the committee who they wanted to invite a. �* , i. invite a. and interrupt you there, james, invite a. and interrupt you there, james. because _ invite a. and interrupt you there, james, because we _ invite a. and interrupt you there, james, because we invited - invite a. and interrupt you there, james, because we invited adam | invite a. and interrupt you there, i james, because we invited adam bland because he had worked with the joint committee on human rights, is a very distinguished lawyer and we wanted to have that expertise at this hearing. d0 to have that expertise at this hearinr. ,, ~ to have that expertise at this hearinr. i. ~ , hearing. do you think it is rude that lawyers — hearing. do you think it is rude that lawyers are _ hearing. do you think it is rude that lawyers are calling - hearing. do you think it is rude i that lawyers are calling members of parliament sinister? share that lawyers are calling members of parliament sinister?— parliament sinister? are not going to stop you — parliament sinister? are not going to stop you asking _ parliament sinister? are not going to stop you asking questions i parliament sinister? are not going to stop you asking questions but i | to stop you asking questions but i want to make it clear that he is very experienced expert in the field of human rights law. that's why he has been invited here today. he is insultin: has been invited here today. he is insulting people. _ has been invited here today. he is insulting people. nobody- has been invited here today. he is insulting people. nobody is- insulting people. nobody is insultin: insulting people. nobody is insulting anyone _ insulting people. nobody is insulting anyone in - insulting people. nobody is insulting anyone in this i insulting people. nobody is. insulting anyone in this room, insulting people. nobody is- insulting anyone in this room, let's be clear, we are not making this personal, we are looking at the facts of what happened and we are

trying to get to the point where we understand decisions and why they were made. perhaps if we do it on that level, james. mr were made. perhaps if we do it on that level, james.— were made. perhaps if we do it on that level, james.- sorry, i that level, james. mr sorry, resond that level, james. mr sorry, respond to _ that level, james. mr sorry, respond to this? _ that level, james. mr sorry, respond to this? i _ that level, james. mr sorry, respond to this? i think- that level, james. mr sorry, respond to this? i think it i that level, james. mr sorry, respond to this? i think it is i that level, james. mr sorry, respond to this? i think it is a l respond to this? i think it is a sign _ respond to this? i think it is a sign of— respond to this? i think it is a sign of something really difficult and dangerous in our democracy, where _ and dangerous in our democracy, where we — and dangerous in our democracy, where we embrace... i thought the questioning — where we embrace... i thought the questioning was sinister, sorry, i did think— questioning was sinister, sorry, i did think it— questioning was sinister, sorry, i did think it was. mr questioning was sinister, sorry, i did think it was.— questioning was sinister, sorry, i did think it was. mr smith, one of the concerns _ did think it was. mr smith, one of the concerns i _ did think it was. mr smith, one of the concerns i have _ did think it was. mr smith, one of the concerns i have in _ did think it was. mr smith, one of the concerns i have in respect i did think it was. mr smith, one of the concerns i have in respect of. the concerns i have in respect of this hearing is that, and this has been raised before, we appear to be having a discussion regarding a set of circumstances where some of the people involved in this are not here, so you've given your take, you have accused people are being dishonest and other things, there is no way of retesting that evidence because the officers who were

present arrested you have not been invited before this committee, they are not able to give their side the story, so i don't really know what i can ask in respect of that. as far as i can see, from the information that we have, you came down here to protest and the police officers appear to have taken a view in respect are based upon intelligence in respect of some of the items that are rather close to you or in your possession, or the position of the other people arrested. but they had legal grounds to arrest you. that's basically all we can establish. you dispute that, they say they did have legal grounds and that's that. this is the height of what we can talk about today. if we are going to get to the point where select committees are turning themselves into courts, we are into a difficult set of circumstances. i don't think that is the case. you are more than welcome to invite the 50 members of the

tactical support group here. that is entirel u- tactical support group here. that is entirely up to _ tactical support group here. that is entirely up to the _ tactical support group here. that is entirely up to the chair. _ tactical support group here. that is entirely up to the chair. can - tactical support group here. that is entirely up to the chair. can i i tactical support group here. that is entirely up to the chair. can ijust . entirely up to the chair. can i 'ust make it cleari entirely up to the chair. can i 'ust make it clear that i entirely up to the chair. can i 'ust make it clear that when i entirely up to the chair. can i 'ust make it clear that when we i entirely up to the chair. can ijust - make it clear that when we contacted the metropolitan police, we did ask, thinkjames comey had requested this, that we had officers who were on the front line that day who could give evidence or explain what happened. the metropolitan police took the decision that they would send the assistant commissioner, that was their decision and that's why we are in the position we are today, just so everyone is clear. i think it is personally cache perfectly reasonable that someone who was detained for 16 hours without any intent or motive even to commit any crime to say quite clearly, to express also the view of my solicitor who said this quite clearly to the officers in the station but this was an unlawful arrest and detention. i mean, the motive is also an important point, which i did point out to them, and

which i did point out to them, and which we pointed out to the officers we had laser meetings with. i was at pains to stress that we had no intention of doing anything such as any specific things that were talked about, locking up, throwing anything, getting into the root or anything, getting into the root or anything else which would cause them anything else which would cause them any concern. we were very clear we didn't want to because the police any concern which is one of the reasons why were liaising with them. aside from anything else we do not have any motivation whatsoever to do that because it would be an incredibly stupid thing for an antimonarchist campaign today because i fully accept we don't have a majority and ifully because i fully accept we don't have a majority and i fully accept that ourjobis a majority and i fully accept that ourjob is to present both our case and ourselves as reasonable people with a reasonable message and you would not necessarily do that by disrupting the coronation. i would not necessarily do that by disrupting the coronation. i think the set of circumstances - disrupting the coronation. i think the set of circumstances that - disrupting the coronation. i think. the set of circumstances that were in play at the time, and i think the police were put in a position where they were protecting are looking to protect the safety of hundreds of

thousands of people together with horses and other people involved in the coronation, it's curious to me, mr smith, that you never once mention your concern or the issue of the public protection of hundreds of thousands of people as an important factor in what's going through your intention when you are going there. we had discussions about that with the police~ — we had discussions about that with the police. we said that we did our own risk_ the police. we said that we did our own risk assessments, we took decisions — own risk assessments, we took decisions in relation to what we were _ decisions in relation to what we were doing and how we were doing it, were doing and how we were doing it, we had _ were doing and how we were doing it, we had our— were doing and how we were doing it, we had our own volunteer welfare officer— we had our own volunteer welfare officer recruited, we had other people — officer recruited, we had other people specifically to manage and hold large flags, we were very clear about _ hold large flags, we were very clear about our— hold large flags, we were very clear about our impact on the people around — about our impact on the people around us _ about our impact on the people around us. we have had protests in other— around us. we have had protests in other cities — around us. we have had protests in other cities will have engaged with the people around us in good humour. we have _ the people around us in good humour. we have made it clear that we not protesting — we have made it clear that we not protesting against them but we are protesting against them but we are protesting against the monarchy. tell me _ protesting against the monarchy. tell me what it is specifically in

the public order act that you disagree with, that you dispute, that you think is not needed in response to the concerns of the constituents i represent and all my colleagues. if constituents i represent and all my collea . ues. , constituents i represent and all my colleauues. , ., ., constituents i represent and all my colleagues— colleagues. if there is a law that allows peeple — colleagues. if there is a law that allows people to _ colleagues. if there is a law that allows people to be _ colleagues. if there is a law that allows people to be rounded - colleagues. if there is a law that allows people to be rounded up| allows people to be rounded up without — allows people to be rounded up without evidence and detained for low _ without evidence and detained for 16... ., , without evidence and detained for 16... ., a: :m without evidence and detained for 16... ., ,'::::f . ., 16. .. that is 10096 incorrect what ou 16. .. that is 100% incorrect what ou 'ust 16. .. that is 100% incorrect what you just said- — 16. .. that is 100% incorrect what you just said. you _ 16. .. that is 100% incorrect what you just said. you might - 16. .. that is 100% incorrect what you just said. you might want. 16. .. that is 100% incorrect what you just said. you might want to | you just said. you might want to talk to the _ you just said. you might want to talk to the young _ you just said. you might want to talk to the young woman - you just said. you might want to talk to the young woman from . talk to the young woman from australia _ talk to the young woman from australia was rounded up without evidence — australia was rounded up without evidence. if australia was rounded up without evidence. , ., , ., evidence. if there is a set of circumstances... _ evidence. if there is a set of circumstances... i— evidence. if there is a set of circumstances... i was - evidence. if there is a set of circumstances... i was a - evidence. if there is a set of - circumstances. .. i was a criminal circumstances... i was a criminal lawyer for 17 years, circumstances... i was a criminal lawyerfor 17 years, i dealt circumstances... i was a criminal lawyer for 17 years, i dealt with many cases of unlawful arrest. you are creating the impression this is some unique situation. this is a situation that happens every single day throughout the country and every police force. day throughout the country and every police force-— police force. what, unlawful arrest? one at a time- _ police force. what, unlawful arrest? one at a time. if— police force. what, unlawful arrest? one at a time. if you _ police force. what, unlawful arrest? one at a time. if you want _ police force. what, unlawful arrest? one at a time. if you want to - one at a time. if you want to respond _ one at a time. if you want to respond to that, then i'm going to

take mark — respond to that, then i'm going to take mark. can respond to that, then i'm going to take mark. ., , ., take mark. can i 'ust reiterate, there was h take mark. can i 'ust reiterate, there was not _ take mark. can i 'ust reiterate, there was not a — take mark. can ijust reiterate, there was not a single - take mark. can ijust reiterate, there was not a single piece i take mark. can ijust reiterate, there was not a single piece of| there was not a single piece of evidence — there was not a single piece of evidence of— there was not a single piece of evidence of any— there was not a single piece of evidence of any intent - there was not a single piece of evidence of any intent or- there was not a single piece of. evidence of any intent or capacity to commit— evidence of any intent or capacity to commit anv— evidence of any intent or capacity to commit any crime _ evidence of any intent or capacity to commit any crime when - evidence of any intent or capacity to commit any crime when they l evidence of any intent or capacity. to commit any crime when they do tend us— to commit any crime when they do tend us for— to commit any crime when they do tend us for searching. _ to commit any crime when they do tend us for searching. they- to commit any crime when they do tend us for searching. they then . tend us for searching. they then policed — tend us for searching. they then policed a — tend us for searching. they then policed a statement _ tend us for searching. they then policed a statement saying - tend us for searching. they then policed a statement saying we . tend us for searching. they then i policed a statement saying we have been arrested — policed a statement saying we have been arrested and _ policed a statement saying we have been arrested and a _ policed a statement saying we have been arrested and a conspiracy - policed a statement saying we have been arrested and a conspiracy to l been arrested and a conspiracy to cause _ been arrested and a conspiracy to cause public— been arrested and a conspiracy to cause public nuisance, _ been arrested and a conspiracy to cause public nuisance, which- been arrested and a conspiracy to cause public nuisance, which was| been arrested and a conspiracy to . cause public nuisance, which was not correct, _ cause public nuisance, which was not correct, then— cause public nuisance, which was not correct, then rearrested _ cause public nuisance, which was not correct, then rearrested me - cause public nuisance, which was not correct, then rearrested me for- cause public nuisance, which was not correct, then rearrested me for thati correct, then rearrested me for that in order— correct, then rearrested me for that in order to _ correct, then rearrested me for that in orderto take— correct, then rearrested me for that in order to take my— correct, then rearrested me for that in order to take my arrest _ correct, then rearrested me for that in order to take my arrest record - in order to take my arrest record nratch— in order to take my arrest record match the — in order to take my arrest record match the press _ in order to take my arrest record match the press statement. - in order to take my arrest record match the press statement. it. in order to take my arrest record i match the press statement. it had all the _ match the press statement. it had all the hallmarks _ match the press statement. it had all the hallmarks of _ match the press statement. it had all the hallmarks of being - all the hallmarks of being predetermined. - all the hallmarks of being predetermined. it - all the hallmarks of being predetermined. it was . all the hallmarks of being. predetermined. it was said all the hallmarks of being - predetermined. it was said earlier by mr— predetermined. it was said earlier by mr twist — predetermined. it was said earlier by mr twist that _ predetermined. it was said earlier by mr twist that they _ predetermined. it was said earlier by mr twist that they tried - predetermined. it was said earlier by mr twist that they tried to - predetermined. it was said earlier by mr twist that they tried to be . predetermined. it was said earlierl by mr twist that they tried to be as helpful— by mr twist that they tried to be as helpful as — by mr twist that they tried to be as helpful as possible. _ by mr twist that they tried to be as helpful as possible. that— by mr twist that they tried to be as helpful as possible. that is- by mr twist that they tried to be as helpful as possible. that is the - helpful as possible. that is the opposite — helpful as possible. that is the opposite to _ helpful as possible. that is the opposite to what _ helpful as possible. that is the opposite to what they- helpful as possible. that is the opposite to what they did. - helpful as possible. that is the opposite to what they did. i. helpful as possible. that is the . opposite to what they did. i have been _ opposite to what they did. i have been many— opposite to what they did. i have been many other— opposite to what they did. i have been many other protests - opposite to what they did. i have been many other protests where| opposite to what they did. i have - been many other protests where they have been— been many other protests where they have been very— been many other protests where they have been very helpful, _ been many other protests where they have been very helpful, where - been many other protests where they have been very helpful, where we - have been very helpful, where we have _ have been very helpful, where we have discussed _ have been very helpful, where we have discussed things. _ have been very helpful, where we have discussed things. what- have been very helpful, where we have discussed things. what they| have discussed things. what they could _ have discussed things. what they could have — have discussed things. what they could have done _ have discussed things. what they could have done that _ have discussed things. what they could have done that day- have discussed things. what they could have done that day for- have discussed things. what they could have done that day for one | could have done that day for one officer— could have done that day for one officer could _ could have done that day for one officer could have _ could have done that day for one officer could have asked - could have done that day for one officer could have asked us - could have done that day for one officer could have asked us whol could have done that day for one . officer could have asked us who we were, _ officer could have asked us who we were, they— officer could have asked us who we were, they could _ officer could have asked us who we were, they could have _ officer could have asked us who we were, they could have spoken- officer could have asked us who we were, they could have spoken to l officer could have asked us who we. were, they could have spoken to the laotian _ were, they could have spoken to the laotian officer, _ were, they could have spoken to the laotian officer, if— were, they could have spoken to the laotian officer, if they _ were, they could have spoken to the laotian officer, if they said, - were, they could have spoken to the laotian officer, if they said, do - laotian officer, if they said, do you mind — laotian officer, if they said, do you mind if— laotian officer, if they said, do you mind if you _ laotian officer, if they said, do you mind if you look— laotian officer, if they said, do you mind if you look in- laotian officer, if they said, do you mind if you look in the - laotian officer, if they said, doi you mind if you look in the van, laotian officer, if they said, do - you mind if you look in the van, we would _ you mind if you look in the van, we would have — you mind if you look in the van, we would have said, _ you mind if you look in the van, we would have said, of— you mind if you look in the van, we would have said, of course, - you mind if you look in the van, we would have said, of course, go - you mind if you look in the van, we would have said, of course, go fori would have said, of course, go for it. would have said, of course, go for it it— would have said, of course, go for it if they— would have said, of course, go for it. if they raised _ would have said, of course, go for it. if they raised concerns - would have said, of course, go for it. if they raised concerns about. it. if they raised concerns about the straps, _ it. if they raised concerns about the straps, we _ it. if they raised concerns about

the straps, we would _ it. if they raised concerns about the straps, we would have - it. if they raised concerns about. the straps, we would have explain what _ the straps, we would have explain what they— the straps, we would have explain what they were _ the straps, we would have explain what they were for. _ the straps, we would have explain what they were for. we _ the straps, we would have explain what they were for. we would - the straps, we would have explainl what they were for. we would have told them — what they were for. we would have told them that _ what they were for. we would have told them that they _ what they were for. we would have told them that they would - what they were for. we would have told them that they would be - what they were for. we would have told them that they would be put . told them that they would be put back in _ told them that they would be put back in the — told them that they would be put back in the van— told them that they would be put back in the van and _ told them that they would be put back in the van and the _ told them that they would be put back in the van and the band - told them that they would be put back in the van and the band was going _ back in the van and the band was going back— back in the van and the band was going back to— back in the van and the band was going back to north _ back in the van and the band was going back to north london - back in the van and the band was going back to north london and i back in the van and the band was . going back to north london and we would _ going back to north london and we would have — going back to north london and we would have carried _ going back to north london and we would have carried on _ going back to north london and we would have carried on our- going back to north london and we would have carried on our way- going back to north london and we would have carried on our way butl would have carried on our way but instead _ would have carried on our way but instead they — would have carried on our way but instead they detained _ would have carried on our way but instead they detained us, - would have carried on our way but instead they detained us, they. instead they detained us, they confiscated _ instead they detained us, they confiscated the _ instead they detained us, they confiscated the placards - instead they detained us, they confiscated the placards and l confiscated the placards and continued _ confiscated the placards and continued to _ confiscated the placards and continued to disrupt - confiscated the placards and continued to disrupt and - confiscated the placards and - continued to disrupt and diminish the protest — continued to disrupt and diminish the protest all— continued to disrupt and diminish the protest all the _ continued to disrupt and diminish the protest all the way _ continued to disrupt and diminish the protest all the way through i continued to disrupt and diminish. the protest all the way through the day. the protest all the way through the da . . �* , the protest all the way through the da . ., �* , . ., , the protest all the way through the da. , , the protest all the way through the day. that's complete the country to the evidence _ day. that's complete the country to the evidence of— day. that's complete the country to the evidence of the _ day. that's complete the country to the evidence of the police - day. that's complete the country to the evidence of the police and - day. that's complete the country to the evidence of the police and we i the evidence of the police and we are turning this hearing simply into giving you a platform to say things which there is no possibility whereby the evidence can be challenged and therefore i don't know why we are here. we challenged and therefore i don't know why we are here.- challenged and therefore i don't know why we are here. we are not a court of law. — know why we are here. we are not a court of law. we _ know why we are here. we are not a court of law, we are _ know why we are here. we are not a court of law, we are inviting - know why we are here. we are not a court of law, we are inviting people | court of law, we are inviting people to give their account. if” court of law, we are inviting people to give their account.— to give their account. if i can first start — to give their account. if i can first start with _ to give their account. if i can first start with mrs _ to give their account. if i can first start with mrs smith. i to give their account. if i can first start with mrs smith. || to give their account. if i can i first start with mrs smith. i also think— first start with mrs smith. i also think you — first start with mrs smith. i also think you for _ first start with mrs smith. i also think you for the _ first start with mrs smith. i also think you for the work _ first start with mrs smith. i also think you for the work you - first start with mrs smith. i also think you for the work you do i first start with mrs smith. i also. think you for the work you do and your— think you for the work you do and your colleagues. _ think you for the work you do and your colleagues. it _ think you for the work you do and your colleagues. it does - think you for the work you do and your colleagues. it does appear. think you for the work you do andi your colleagues. it does appear to be very— your colleagues. it does appear to be very unfortunate _ your colleagues. it does appear to be very unfortunate what - your colleagues. it does appear to| be very unfortunate what happened your colleagues. it does appear to i be very unfortunate what happened to you. be very unfortunate what happened to you would _ be very unfortunate what happened to you would it— be very unfortunate what happened to you. would it be — be very unfortunate what happened to you. would it be in— be very unfortunate what happened to you. would it be in your— be very unfortunate what happened to

you. would it be in yourjudgment i you. would it be in yourjudgment that the _ you. would it be in yourjudgment that the police, _ you. would it be in yourjudgment that the police, given _ you. would it be in yourjudgment that the police, given the - you. would it be in yourjudgment . that the police, given the extremely hi-h that the police, given the extremely high stakes— that the police, given the extremely high stakes and _ that the police, given the extremely high stakes and the _ that the police, given the extremely high stakes and the high— that the police, given the extremely high stakes and the high tension i that the police, given the extremely high stakes and the high tension of| high stakes and the high tension of the situation — high stakes and the high tension of the situation on _ high stakes and the high tension of the situation on the _ high stakes and the high tension of the situation on the day, _ high stakes and the high tension of the situation on the day, city- high stakes and the high tension of the situation on the day, city made a mistake. — the situation on the day, city made a mistake. or— the situation on the day, city made a mistake, or do— the situation on the day, city made a mistake, or do you _ the situation on the day, city made a mistake, or do you believe - the situation on the day, city made a mistake, or do you believe there| a mistake, or do you believe there might— a mistake, or do you believe there might have — a mistake, or do you believe there might have been _ a mistake, or do you believe there might have been some _ a mistake, or do you believe there might have been some sort- a mistake, or do you believe there might have been some sort of- might have been some sort of malicious— might have been some sort of malicious element? _ might have been some sort of malicious element? [- might have been some sort of malicious element?— might have been some sort of malicious element? i fully accept it is a challenging _ malicious element? i fully accept it is a challenging situation _ malicious element? i fully accept it is a challenging situation for- malicious element? i fully accept it is a challenging situation for the i is a challenging situation for the police — is a challenging situation for the police i— is a challenging situation for the police. i was informed by the officer— police. i was informed by the officer who arrested me that they were _ officer who arrested me that they were specifically looking for the night _ were specifically looking for the night stars and they had been told where _ night stars and they had been told where we — night stars and they had been told where we were going to be, and they then found _ where we were going to be, and they then found us which would suggest there _ then found us which would suggest there was— then found us which would suggest there was some intelligence that they had — there was some intelligence that they had received. do there was some intelligence that they had received.— there was some intelligence that they had received. do you think the intelligence — they had received. do you think the intelligence might _ they had received. do you think the intelligence might be _ they had received. do you think the intelligence might be around i they had received. do you think the intelligence might be around the i intelligence might be around the fact that — intelligence might be around the fact that giving _ intelligence might be around the fact that giving out _ intelligence might be around the fact that giving out rape - intelligence might be around the fact that giving out rape alarms, | fact that giving out rape alarms, the fact— fact that giving out rape alarms, the fact that _ fact that giving out rape alarms, the fact that these _ fact that giving out rape alarms, the fact that these devices - fact that giving out rape alarms, the fact that these devices can l the fact that these devices can cause — the fact that these devices can cause very— the fact that these devices can cause very high—pitched - the fact that these devices can. cause very high—pitched noises, could _ cause very high—pitched noises, could have _ cause very high—pitched noises, could have caused _ cause very high—pitched noises, could have caused a _ cause very high—pitched noises, could have caused a certain- could have caused a certain occurrence _ could have caused a certain occurrence to _ could have caused a certain occurrence to happen -

could have caused a certain. occurrence to happen amongst could have caused a certain- occurrence to happen amongst the horses— occurrence to happen amongst the horses that — occurrence to happen amongst the horses that were _ occurrence to happen amongst the horses that were parading, - occurrence to happen amongst the i horses that were parading, therefore potentially _ horses that were parading, therefore potentially unequivocal _ horses that were parading, therefore potentially unequivocal —— _ horses that were parading, therefore potentially unequivocal —— are - horses that were parading, therefore potentially unequivocal —— are an i potentially unequivocal —— are an incredible — potentially unequivocal —— are an incredible amount _ potentially unequivocal —— are an incredible amount of _ potentially unequivocal —— are an incredible amount of harm - potentially unequivocal —— are an incredible amount of harm to i potentially unequivocal —— are an i incredible amount of harm to people, that perhaps — incredible amount of harm to people, that perhaps the _ incredible amount of harm to people, that perhaps the judgment _ incredible amount of harm to people, that perhaps the judgment by - incredible amount of harm to people, that perhaps the judgment by police i that perhaps the judgment by police officers _ that perhaps the judgment by police officers on _ that perhaps the judgment by police officers on the _ that perhaps the judgment by police officers on the day, _ that perhaps the judgment by police officers on the day, being _ officers on the day, being risk—based, _ officers on the day, being risk—based, had - officers on the day, being risk—based, had to - officers on the day, being risk—based, had to take l officers on the day, being risk—based, had to take aj officers on the day, being i risk—based, had to take a view officers on the day, being _ risk—based, had to take a view which was unenviable _ risk—based, had to take a view which was unenviable and _ risk—based, had to take a view which was unenviable and they— risk—based, had to take a view which was unenviable and they thought i risk—based, had to take a view whichj was unenviable and they thought the stakes— was unenviable and they thought the stakes were — was unenviable and they thought the stakes were simply _ was unenviable and they thought the stakes were simply too _ was unenviable and they thought the stakes were simply too high? - stakes were simply too high? retrospect _ stakes were simply too high? retrospect it _ stakes were simply too high? retrospect it seems - stakes were simply too high? retrospect it seems like i stakes were simply too high? retrospect it seems like that| stakes were simply too high? i retrospect it seems like that they made _ retrospect it seems like that they made perhaps— retrospect it seems like that they made perhaps the _ retrospect it seems like that they made perhaps the wrong - retrospect it seems like that they. made perhaps the wrong judgment, retrospect it seems like that they- made perhaps the wrong judgment, but there was— made perhaps the wrong judgment, but there was not— made perhaps the wrong judgment, but there was not any— made perhaps the wrong judgment, but there was not any malicious _ made perhaps the wrong judgment, but there was not any malicious irritant i there was not any malicious irritant in -- _ there was not any malicious irritant in -- but _ there was not any malicious irritant in -- but there— there was not any malicious irritant in —— but there was— there was not any malicious irritant in —— but there was not— there was not any malicious irritant in —— but there was not any- in —— but there was not any malicious— in —— but there was not any malicious intent. _ in —— but there was not any malicious intent. we - in -- but there was not any malicious intent.— in -- but there was not any malicious intent. ~ ., , ., , malicious intent. we do carry rape alarms which _ malicious intent. we do carry rape alarms which are _ malicious intent. we do carry rape alarms which are part _ malicious intent. we do carry rape alarms which are part of— malicious intent. we do carry rape alarms which are part of a - malicious intent. we do carry rape alarms which are part of a larger. alarms which are part of a larger anti—spiking kit. neither myself or my colleagues have ever handed out a rape alarm~ _ my colleagues have ever handed out a rape alarm~ i— my colleagues have ever handed out a rape alarm. i think across the three of us _ rape alarm. i think across the three of us, we _ rape alarm. i think across the three of us, we had — rape alarm. i think across the three of us, we had potentially three or four rape — of us, we had potentially three or four rape alarms on us over the three _ four rape alarms on us over the three of— four rape alarms on us over the three of us _ four rape alarms on us over the three of us. sol believe in searching _ three of us. sol believe in searching our bags and then talking to us, _ searching our bags and then talking to us, not— searching our bags and then talking to us, not sure why we were then arrested — to us, not sure why we were then arrested and detained. asl to us, not sure why we were then arrested and detained.— arrested and detained. as i said, there is the _ arrested and detained. as i said, there is the potential _ arrested and detained. as i said, there is the potential of - arrested and detained. as i said, there is the potential of a - arrested and detained. as i said, l there is the potential of a mistake having _

there is the potential of a mistake having taken — there is the potential of a mistake having taken place, _ there is the potential of a mistake having taken place, but _ there is the potential of a mistake having taken place, but there i there is the potential of a mistake having taken place, but there wasj there is the potential of a mistake i having taken place, but there was no malicious— having taken place, but there was no malicious intent— having taken place, but there was no malicious intent in— having taken place, but there was no malicious intent in doing _ having taken place, but there was no malicious intent in doing so. - having taken place, but there was no malicious intent in doing so. i- malicious intent in doing so. can't comment. i would not malicious intent in doing so]. can't comment. i would not have thought— can't comment. i would not have thought so, _ can't comment. i would not have thought so, i hope not. mr smith, ou made thought so, i hope not. mr smith, you made a _ thought so, i hope not. mr smith, you made a big — thought so, i hope not. mr smith, you made a big play _ thought so, i hope not. mr smith, you made a big play today - thought so, i hope not. mr smith, you made a big play today on i thought so, i hope not. mr smith, you made a big play today on the| you made a big play today on the fact that — you made a big play today on the fact that you _ you made a big play today on the fact that you engaged _ you made a big play today on the fact that you engaged a - you made a big play today on the fact that you engaged a lot - you made a big play today on the fact that you engaged a lot with i you made a big play today on the i fact that you engaged a lot with the police _ fact that you engaged a lot with the police and — fact that you engaged a lot with the police and i— fact that you engaged a lot with the police and i commend _ fact that you engaged a lot with the police and i commend you - fact that you engaged a lot with the police and i commend you for- fact that you engaged a lot with thej police and i commend you for doing so. police and i commend you for doing so but— police and i commend you for doing so but would — police and i commend you for doing so. but would you _ police and i commend you for doing so. but would you also _ police and i commend you for doing so. but would you also accept - police and i commend you for doing so. but would you also accept that. so. but would you also accept that it is a _ so. but would you also accept that it is a well— known _ so. but would you also accept that it is a well—known thing _ so. but would you also accept that it is a well—known thing that - it is a well—known thing that protest _ it is a well—known thing that protest groups _ it is a well—known thing that protest groups of— it is a well—known thing that protest groups of all- it is a well—known thing that protest groups of all sorts . it is a well—known thing that i protest groups of all sorts might describe — protest groups of all sorts might describe an— protest groups of all sorts might describe an intent— protest groups of all sorts might describe an intent with - protest groups of all sorts might describe an intent with a - protest groups of all sorts might describe an intent with a view i protest groups of all sorts might describe an intent with a view toj describe an intent with a view to perhaps— describe an intent with a view to perhaps misleading _ describe an intent with a view to perhaps misleading and - describe an intent with a view to. perhaps misleading and therefore this is— perhaps misleading and therefore this is something _ perhaps misleading and therefore this is something that— perhaps misleading and therefore this is something that the - perhaps misleading and therefore | this is something that the policing authorities. — this is something that the policing authorities, again, _ this is something that the policing authorities, again, having - this is something that the policing authorities, again, having to i this is something that the policing authorities, again, having to take| this is something that the policingl authorities, again, having to take a risk-based — authorities, again, having to take a risk—based approach, _ authorities, again, having to take a risk—based approach, have - authorities, again, having to take a risk—based approach, have to - risk—based approach, have to consider— risk—based approach, have to consider whether— risk—based approach, have to consider whether the - risk—based approach, have to| consider whether the position risk—based approach, have to i consider whether the position is entirely— consider whether the position is entirely correct? _ consider whether the position is entirely correct? you _ consider whether the position is entirely correct? you have i consider whether the position is entirely correct? you have seenj entirely correct? you have seen today— entirely correct? you have seen today that — entirely correct? you have seen today that people _ entirely correct? you have seen today that people came - entirely correct? you have seen today that people came in - entirely correct? you have seen i today that people came in wearing a particular— today that people came in wearing a particular type — today that people came in wearing a particular type of— today that people came in wearing a particular type of clothing, - today that people came in wearing a particular type of clothing, the - particular type of clothing, the intention— particular type of clothing, the intention was— particular type of clothing, the intention was to _ particular type of clothing, the intention was to sit _ particular type of clothing, the intention was to sit behind i intention was to sit behind witnesses _ intention was to sit behind witnesses and _ intention was to sit behind witnesses and to - intention was to sit behind witnesses and to simply. intention was to sit behind - witnesses and to simply observe proceedings— witnesses and to simply observe proceedings but— witnesses and to simply observe proceedings but actually, - witnesses and to simply observe proceedings but actually, what l witnesses and to simply observe i proceedings but actually, what they did was—

proceedings but actually, what they did was completely _ proceedings but actually, what they did was completely different. - proceedings but actually, what they did was completely different. so i did was completely different. so they themselves, _ did was completely different. so they themselves, and _ did was completely different. so they themselves, and i'm - did was completely different. so they themselves, and i'm not. did was completely different. so i they themselves, and i'm not wanting to compare _ they themselves, and i'm not wanting to compare you — they themselves, and i'm not wanting to compare you to _ they themselves, and i'm not wanting to compare you to just _ they themselves, and i'm not wanting to compare you to just stop _ they themselves, and i'm not wanting to compare you tojust stop oil, - they themselves, and i'm not wanting to compare you to just stop oil, but l to compare you to just stop oil, but that policing — to compare you to just stop oil, but that policing authorities _ to compare you to just stop oil, but that policing authorities have - to compare you to just stop oil, but that policing authorities have to i that policing authorities have to also take — that policing authorities have to also take a _ that policing authorities have to also take a view, _ that policing authorities have to also take a view, risk—based i that policing authorities have to i also take a view, risk—based view, which _ also take a view, risk—based view, which is _ also take a view, risk—based view, which is whatever— also take a view, risk—based view, which is whatever is _ also take a view, risk—based view, which is whatever is being - also take a view, risk—based view, which is whatever is being said - also take a view, risk—based view, which is whatever is being said to| which is whatever is being said to then— which is whatever is being said to then might — which is whatever is being said to then might not— which is whatever is being said to then might not entirely— which is whatever is being said to then might not entirely being - which is whatever is being said to then might not entirely being thei then might not entirely being the case: _ then might not entirely being the case, because_ then might not entirely being the case, because there _ then might not entirely being the case, because there could - then might not entirely being the case, because there could be - then might not entirely being the i case, because there could be even then might not entirely being the - case, because there could be even an intent _ case, because there could be even an intent to— case, because there could be even an intent to mislead _ case, because there could be even an intent to mislead in _ case, because there could be even an intent to mislead in order— case, because there could be even an intent to mislead in order to- intent to mislead in order to achieve _ intent to mislead in order to achieve their— intent to mislead in order to achieve their outcomes. - intent to mislead in order to achieve their outcomes. obviously, but i think achieve their outcomes. obviously, but i think the — achieve their outcomes. obviously, but i think the point _ achieve their outcomes. obviously, but i think the point with _ achieve their outcomes. obviously, but i think the point with us - achieve their outcomes. obviously, but i think the point with us is - but i think the point with us is that— but i think the point with us is that we — but i think the point with us is that we had been speaking to them for four_ that we had been speaking to them for four months and they made it clear— for four months and they made it clear that — for four months and they made it clear that they had no concerns, eveh _ clear that they had no concerns, even on — clear that they had no concerns, even on the _ clear that they had no concerns, even on the thursday were the friday before _ even on the thursday were the friday before hand, the issue the statement, because there was some concern _ statement, because there was some concern or— statement, because there was some concern or other statements we made about— concern or other statements we made about having a low tolerance protests. _ about having a low tolerance protests, they issued another statement saying that they would engage _ statement saying that they would engage with us and allow us to continue — engage with us and allow us to continue with our protests. it has been _ continue with our protests. it has been pointed out by the police officers — been pointed out by the police officers that they would also come not good _ officers that they would also come not good enough to simply see someone — not good enough to simply see someone in possession of something

which _ someone in possession of something which may— someone in possession of something which may or may not be a lock on device. _ which may or may not be a lock on device. they— which may or may not be a lock on device, they need reasonable grounds for suspicion of intent which they could _ for suspicion of intent which they could not— for suspicion of intent which they could not have had because there was nothing _ could not have had because there was nothing in _ could not have had because there was nothing in anything we had done, said or— nothing in anything we had done, said or thought that would suggest such intent. it's also a matter of proportion _ such intent. it's also a matter of proportion. that could have said they— proportion. that could have said they had — proportion. that could have said they had a — proportion. that could have said they had a conversation with us. the hostiie _ they had a conversation with us. the hostiie tone — they had a conversation with us. the hostile tone from the moment they turned _ hostile tone from the moment they turned up _ hostile tone from the moment they turned up made it very clear that they were — turned up made it very clear that they were not interested in any such discussions — they were not interested in any such discussions. as i said before, i'm immediately said we have had this combo— immediately said we have had this combo -- — immediately said we have had this combo —— my conversations to named the superintendent we met, i named the superintendent we met, i named the liaison— the superintendent we met, i named the liaison officer and attempted to phone _ the liaison officer and attempted to phone her— the liaison officer and attempted to phone her and he stopped me from doing _ phone her and he stopped me from doing that — phone her and he stopped me from doing that twice, including grabbing my doing that twice, including grabbing nry wrist _ doing that twice, including grabbing my wrist and removing the phone from my wrist and removing the phone from my hand _ my wrist and removing the phone from my hand so— my wrist and removing the phone from my hand. so there was no engagement. as i understand from the letter and ithink— as i understand from the letter and i think i_ as i understand from the letter and i think i said before the arresting officers _ i think i said before the arresting officers spoke to the commander who was briefed. so it may happen but if we are _ was briefed. so it may happen but if we are going to have it so broad that we — we are going to have it so broad that we just say, well, these things

may theoretically happen so we can arrest _ may theoretically happen so we can arrest you. — may theoretically happen so we can arrest you, and i have turned up today— arrest you, and i have turned up today with — arrest you, and i have turned up today with five devices on my person — today with five devices on my person. my tie, my watch, my belt and shoelaces. somebody could say he is planning _ and shoelaces. somebody could say he is planning to lock himself to the chair— is planning to lock himself to the chair during the committee. should i spend _ chair during the committee. should i spend 16 _ chair during the committee. should i spend 16 hours in detention for that? _ spend 16 hours in detention for that? there has to be quite a seriousm _ that? there has to be quite a serious"— that? there has to be quite a serious... ~ ,, . , ., serious... with respect, sorry to interrupt- _ serious... with respect, sorry to interrupt- we — serious... with respect, sorry to interrupt. we cannot _ serious... with respect, sorry to interrupt. we cannot really - serious... with respect, sorry to| interrupt. we cannot really make such _ interrupt. we cannot really make such fiippant _ interrupt. we cannot really make such flippant comparisons, - interrupt. we cannot really make such flippant comparisons, givenj interrupt. we cannot really make i such flippant comparisons, given as i such flippant comparisons, given as i described — such flippant comparisons, given as i described a — such flippant comparisons, given as i described a few _ such flippant comparisons, given as i described a few moments - such flippant comparisons, given as i described a few moments ago - such flippant comparisons, given as i described a few moments ago to l i described a few moments ago to miss meivin— i described a few moments ago to miss melvin the _ i described a few moments ago to miss melvin the events _ i described a few moments ago to miss melvin the events of - i described a few moments ago to miss melvin the events of the - i described a few moments ago to miss melvin the events of the dayj miss melvin the events of the day were _ miss melvin the events of the day were clearly— miss melvin the events of the day were clearly extremely— miss melvin the events of the day l were clearly extremely high—stakes, extremely— were clearly extremely high—stakes, extremely tense, _ were clearly extremely high—stakes, extremely tense, for— were clearly extremely high—stakes, extremely tense, for all— were clearly extremely high—stakes, extremely tense, for all sorts - were clearly extremely high—stakes, extremely tense, for all sorts of- extremely tense, for all sorts of different— extremely tense, for all sorts of different reasons, _ extremely tense, for all sorts of different reasons, and - extremely tense, for all sorts of different reasons, and that- extremely tense, for all sorts of different reasons, and that if. extremely tense, for all sorts of different reasons, and that if a i different reasons, and that if a police — different reasons, and that if a police officer— different reasons, and that if a police officer is _ different reasons, and that if a police officer is given - different reasons, and that if a . police officer is given reasonable doubt _ police officer is given reasonable doubt and — police officer is given reasonable doubt and suspicion _ police officer is given reasonable doubt and suspicion that - police officer is given reasonable i doubt and suspicion that something perhaps— doubt and suspicion that something perhaps untoward _ doubt and suspicion that something perhaps untoward could _ doubt and suspicion that something perhaps untoward could happen - doubt and suspicion that something perhaps untoward could happen in i perhaps untoward could happen in that particular— perhaps untoward could happen in that particular context, _ perhaps untoward could happen in that particular context, which- perhaps untoward could happen in that particular context, which may be on _ that particular context, which may be on a _ that particular context, which may be on a different— that particular context, which may be on a different day— that particular context, which may be on a different day with - that particular context, which may be on a different day with a - be on a different day with a different— be on a different day with a different context _ be on a different day with a different context might - be on a different day with a different context might bei

different context might be interpreted _ different context might be interpreted differently, i different context might be l interpreted differently, they perhaps _ interpreted differently, they perhaps had _ interpreted differently, they perhaps had no— interpreted differently, they perhaps had no choice - interpreted differently, they perhaps had no choice but. interpreted differently, they| perhaps had no choice but to interpreted differently, they- perhaps had no choice but to take the actions — perhaps had no choice but to take the actions they— perhaps had no choice but to take the actions they took. _ perhaps had no choice but to take the actions they took.— the actions they took. marker, i don't think _ the actions they took. marker, i don't think we _ the actions they took. marker, i don't think we need _ the actions they took. marker, i don't think we need to - the actions they took. marker, i don't think we need to rehearse j the actions they took. marker, i - don't think we need to rehearse this again. don't think we need to rehearse this aaain. , ,., , . again. the response i received before about _ again. the response i received before about shoelaces, - again. the response i received before about shoelaces, with i before about shoelaces, with greatest _ before about shoelaces, with greatest respect, _ before about shoelaces, with greatest respect, is - before about shoelaces, with greatest respect, is a - before about shoelaces, with| greatest respect, is a flippant response~ _ greatest respect, is a flippant response~ i— greatest respect, is a flippant resume-— greatest respect, is a flippant resonse. , . .,. response. i will repeat the fact there were _ response. i will repeat the fact there were many _ response. i will repeat the fact there were many things - response. i will repeat the fact there were many things they i response. i will repeat the fact - there were many things they could have done — there were many things they could have done short of the heavy—handed arrest _ have done short of the heavy—handed arrest of _ have done short of the heavy—handed arrest of me — have done short of the heavy—handed arrest of me and my colleagues. simon? — arrest of me and my colleagues. simon? i— arrest of me and my colleagues. simon? i will be very brief because i'm very aware of time. ijust simon? i will be very brief because i'm very aware of time. i just want to get a couple facts on raqqa. mr smith, the dialogue with the met ahead of the coronation. —— a couple of facts on record. i'm keen to understand the level of detail you got into with them over your plans. for instance, did you tell them that there would be straps in the back of there would be straps in the back of the van, there might be combination locks, you would be driving a transit van into central london and unloading on the day, was that all

in that dialogue? i unloading on the day, was that all in that dialogue?— in that dialogue? i think some of the small minutiae _ in that dialogue? i think some of the small minutiae of _ in that dialogue? i think some of the small minutiae of the - in that dialogue? i think some of. the small minutiae of the logistics might— the small minutiae of the logistics might not— the small minutiae of the logistics might not have been communicated because _ might not have been communicated because we already established a verticai— because we already established a vertical relationship and they knew we would — vertical relationship and they knew we would be transporting 600 placards— we would be transporting 600 placards so i don't know whether it needed _ placards so i don't know whether it needed to— placards so i don't know whether it needed to be spelt out that we need a van _ needed to be spelt out that we need a van for— needed to be spelt out that we need a van for that. and a luggage strap thing _ a van for that. and a luggage strap thing was — a van for that. and a luggage strap thing was very late in the day because _ thing was very late in the day because we only had delivery of the placards— because we only had delivery of the placards very late in the day and we realised _ placards very late in the day and we realised that to keep them on the trotieys _ realised that to keep them on the trolleys we would need to strap them on. trolleys we would need to strap them on they— trolleys we would need to strap them on. they did say to us, and the other— on. they did say to us, and the other poiice _ on. they did say to us, and the other police forces have said, the reason _ other police forces have said, the reason why— other police forces have said, the reason why they like this dialogue is so _ reason why they like this dialogue is so they— reason why they like this dialogue is so they don't have any surprises on the _ is so they don't have any surprises on the day. — is so they don't have any surprises on the day, but it shouldn't be that difficult _ on the day, but it shouldn't be that difficult to — on the day, but it shouldn't be that difficult to simply engage on the day and — difficult to simply engage on the day and continue the dialogue. peopie — day and continue the dialogue. people talk about short timeframes, there was— people talk about short timeframes, there was four hours between us turning _ there was four hours between us turning up— there was four hours between us turning up and the arrest. we were well away— turning up and the arrest. we were well away from the root of the procession, it would have been easy to have _ procession, it would have been easy to have continued dialogue, to speak to have continued dialogue, to speak to the _ to have continued dialogue, to speak to the liaison team and if they wanted — to the liaison team and if they wanted to, they could have taken the straps _ wanted to, they could have taken the straps from _ wanted to, they could have taken the straps from us. | wanted to, they could have taken the straps from us— straps from us. i appreciate that. we saw the _ straps from us. i appreciate that. we saw the amount _

straps from us. i appreciate that. we saw the amount of— straps from us. i appreciate that. we saw the amount of effort - straps from us. i appreciate that. | we saw the amount of effort going into clearing paths and making sure everything was prepared in advance. what i'm trying to understand is, where the met police expecting a transit van to drive into central london and start unloading on the morning? was that the sort of conversation you are having? i believe so. it wasn't in the controlled area, there were other fans on the same street, as well as taxis. 50 fans on the same street, as well as taxis. ., ., , , . taxis. so within the normal public access areas _ taxis. so within the normal public access areas where _ taxis. so within the normal public access areas where the _ taxis. so within the normal public access areas where the van - taxis. so within the normal public access areas where the van was. | taxis. so within the normal public - access areas where the van was. they certainly— access areas where the van was. they certainly knew we would be turning up certainly knew we would be turning up with _ certainly knew we would be turning up with 600 placards so what i needed — up with 600 placards so what i needed to tell them the nature of the van _ needed to tell them the nature of the van that would be required for that, _ the van that would be required for that, i_ the van that would be required for that, ican't— the van that would be required for that, i can't really recall. but i think— that, i can't really recall. but i think they— that, i can't really recall. but i think they would have known that we would _ think they would have known that we would have _ think they would have known that we would have been descending on the square _ would have been descending on the square in _ would have been descending on the square in good order quite early on, we did _ square in good order quite early on, we did tell— square in good order quite early on, we did tell them we would be there at 6am, _ we did tell them we would be there at 6am, and we were quite clear about— at 6am, and we were quite clear about what — at 6am, and we were quite clear about what equipment we would bring down _ about what equipment we would bring down as— about what equipment we would bring down as i_ about what equipment we would bring down. as i said, the straps whether to minimise — down. as i said, the straps whether to minimise disruption and disorder so they— to minimise disruption and disorder so they would stay on the trolley and we _ so they would stay on the trolley and we could move as quickly as possible — and we could move as quickly as ossible. ~ ., ,., and we could move as quickly as ossible. ~ ., y., , ., , .,

and we could move as quickly as ossible. ~ ., , ., possible. would you be able to share the correspondence _ possible. would you be able to share the correspondence you _ possible. would you be able to share the correspondence you had - possible. would you be able to share the correspondence you had with - possible. would you be able to share the correspondence you had with the j the correspondence you had with the met? . ., the correspondence you had with the met? , . ., , , met? yes, i have e-mails between m self met? yes, i have e-mails between myself and — met? yes, i have e-mails between myself and the _ met? yes, i have e-mails between myself and the liaison _ met? yes, i have e-mails between myself and the liaison officer. - met? yes, i have e-mails between myself and the liaison officer. i - myself and the liaison officer. i don't _ myself and the liaison officer. i don't see — myself and the liaison officer. i don't see any reason why you shouldn't— don't see any reason why you shouldn't see them.- don't see any reason why you shouldn't see them. thank you very much. shouldn't see them. thank you very much- miss — shouldn't see them. thank you very much. miss melvin, _ shouldn't see them. thank you very much. miss melvin, ahead - shouldn't see them. thank you very much. miss melvin, ahead of... - much. miss melvin, ahead of... studio: we are going to leave that session of the home affairs select committee. our correspondent daniel sandford is still with us. a lot of questions over the last two hours, basically looking at the handling of the met police's handling of the protests on the coronation. and talking bear to the people from the group republic but also a lady who was arrested that night. just talk us through what stood out for you throughout all of that. in us through what stood out for you throughout all of that.— us through what stood out for you throughout all of that. in many ways the positions — throughout all of that. in many ways the positions of _ throughout all of that. in many ways the positions of the _ throughout all of that. in many ways the positions of the various - the positions of the various organisations don't seem to have shifted through the hearing. we had graeme smith describing it as a traumatic experience. we got a bit more details, it was a 600 placards

that he was bringing down and that the luggage straps had combination locks on them and were still in the packaging, but he insists they were going to be used to hold the packers to trolleys. the met police saying that they had intelligence that there was going to be placards proximity of that van the placards and the timing of when it turned up they believed the officers had reasonable grounds to make arrests. i think those positions haven't shifted. it was interesting hearing from the suzi melvin from night stars about her experience. there were not that close to the process route and in fact it was much longer before the coronation that they were arrested. that's clearly an extraordinary detention of that proof at the north end of the soho square, walking around with bibs on which clearly had the words metropolitan, with water who might

have over imbibed. they spent many hours in custody. we have ended up with a slightly unsatisfactory situation where the police have gone on saying, with support of some of the mp5, given the nature of the event, there was going to be some eggs broken, as it were, and unfortunately some people spent some time in custody for no reason. the protesters were saying, well, that's not an acceptable price to pay to allow coronation to go ahead, it shouldn't be the case that we end spending 16 hours in custody because someone thought maybe we might do something for which it turned out that wasn't really any evidence at all. so across the two hours, i'm not sure that we have really got a lot more light apart from the nature of these straps and also the fact that the police are still saying they believe their officers had reasonable grounds for making this arrests. is reasonable grounds for making this arrests. , ., ,., reasonable grounds for making this arrests. , ., ., ., .,

arrests. is also about how long it took to process _ arrests. is also about how long it took to process them _ arrests. is also about how long it took to process them and - arrests. is also about how long it took to process them and they i arrests. is also about how long it - took to process them and they talked about five members of the protest group having to see the same lawyer, and sequential rather than at the same time, and that was one of the reasons for the delay must one of the reasons for the 16 hours, that's what they said. i the reasons for the 16 hours, that's what they said-— what they said. i have to say, i saw something — what they said. i have to say, i saw something else _ what they said. i have to say, i saw something else happen _ what they said. i have to say, i saw something else happen on - what they said. i have to say, i saw something else happen on the - something else happen on the coronation morning which was a man who had previously been convicted of throwing eggs at members of the royal family, some officers spotted him in the protest crowd, they arrested him, took him away, searched him, found he didn't have any eggs and released him back into the protest. in fact they accompany —— and accompanied him back to the protest. i think people wanted to know why it was that that wasn't what happened to them, why were they not quickly stopped and questioned and allowed to carry on with their protest? it and allowed to carry on with their rotest? . . . . and allowed to carry on with their rotest? . , , ., ., ., protest? it has been a two hour session and _ protest? it has been a two hour session and it _ protest? it has been a two hour session and it is _ protest? it has been a two hour session and it is still _ protest? it has been a two hour session and it is still going - protest? it has been a two hour| session and it is still going even though they do have to try and make it over to the chamber for ministers

questions because it is under way, the members of parliament are taking their seats now, so we expect that session to draw to a close just now. you've been watching it here on abc news. —— bbc news. we have a while until we hand over to prime minister's questions. i suppose one other thing that was interesting that they started asking about at the beginning whether the metropolitan police had felt any political pressure when it came to the way that they acted on the day of the coronation.— of the coronation. yes, and the assistant _ of the coronation. yes, and the assistant commissioner - of the coronation. yes, and the assistant commissioner was i of the coronation. yes, and the i assistant commissioner was very clear, he said he didn't feel any political pressure. he said there was pressure because it was a once—in—a—lifetime event and the base time they have ever had to protect such a large number of vips on a single day and he said that was the pressure they felt, they wanted to go well and of course i think we all know there could be a different inquiry going on now if something could have gone wrong on the

coronation day and the police of the coronation. oliver dowden, standing in for the prime minister. mr oliver dowden, standing in for the prime minister.— oliver dowden, standing in for the prime minister. mr speaker, i have been asked — prime minister. mr speaker, i have been asked to _ prime minister. mr speaker, i have been asked to reply _ prime minister. mr speaker, i have been asked to reply on _ prime minister. mr speaker, i have been asked to reply on behalf- prime minister. mr speaker, i have been asked to reply on behalf of. prime minister. mr speaker, i have| been asked to reply on behalf of my right honourable friend the prime minister. he right honourable friend the prime minister. . . , right honourable friend the prime minister. , . , ., minister. he is currently travelling to ja an minister. he is currently travelling to japan to — minister. he is currently travelling to japan to attend _ minister. he is currently travelling to japan to attend the _ minister. he is currently travelling to japan to attend the g7 - minister. he is currently travelling to japan to attend the g7 summit. j minister. he is currently travelling i to japan to attend the g7 summit. mr speaker i am sure that colleagues from across the house willjoin me in congratulating liverpool for its wonderful staging of the eurovision song contest on behalf of ukraine. mr speaker, this morning i had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others and in addition to my duties in this house i shall have further such meetings later today. royal lancaster infirmary is a 130—year—old crumbling hospital and was meant to be one of the

government's 1a new hospitals. however, the funding announcement has been delayed for times already, so can the deputy prime minister reassure my constituents that this is not going to be another broken tory promise? i is not going to be another broken tory promise?— tory promise? i can absolutely assure the _ tory promise? i can absolutely assure the honourable - tory promise? i can absolutely assure the honourable lady - tory promise? i can absolutely| assure the honourable lady that tory promise? i can absolutely - assure the honourable lady that we remain fully committed to those a0 hospitals from our manifesto, and indeed we have already provided £3.9 billion worth of initial capital. mr speaker, billion worth of initial capital. m speaker, i have a very serious matter affecting every constituency to bring to the attention of my right honourable friend. amazon have been facilitating the sale of counterfeit postage stamps from china virtually perfect except for the barcode. i've contacted the nca, the barcode. i've contacted the nca, the national trading standards, and i'm afraid i've received woeful responses, i have now sent my concerns to the serious fraud office and the economic crime unit of the city of london police. amazon are

potently facility facilitating remittances of ill gotten there is i believe this is in contravention of the forgery and counterfeiting act 1981, and my right honourable friend assist me in taking this further? well, mr speaker, mayi assist me in taking this further? well, mr speaker, may i pay tribute to my honourable friend, i now how hard he has been campaigning on this important issue. the home secretary will have heard his remarks, i would say that the digital markets and competition and consumer bill does put duties on those platforms and ultimately if fraud is being perpetrated, the police should take action. irate perpetrated, the police should take action. ~ ., ., , , action. we now come to the deputy leader of the _ action. we now come to the deputy leader of the opposition, - action. we now come to the deputy leader of the opposition, angela . leader of the opposition, angela rayner — leader of the opposition, angela ra ner. . ~ leader of the opposition, angela ra ner. ., ,, ,., leader of the opposition, angela ra ner. . ~' ~ leader of the opposition, angela ra ner. ., ,, ~ leader of the opposition, angela ra ner. ., ~ ., rayner. thank you, mr speaker, and it is a pleasure _ rayner. thank you, mr speaker, and it is a pleasure to _ rayner. thank you, mr speaker, and it is a pleasure to welcome - rayner. thank you, mr speaker, and it is a pleasure to welcome yet - it is a pleasure to welcome yet another deputy prime minister to the dispatch box, the third deputy that i have faced in three years, and you know what they say, the third time is a charm. and i'm also pleased to note, mr speaker, that the prime

minister has a friend, finally. i seem to remember that after the loss of 300 conservative seats at last year's local elections, the right honourable gentleman resigned, saying someone must take responsibility. after 1000 more conservative councillors have been given the boot by voters, who does he think is responsible now? itrufeiiii. he think is responsible now? well, mr speaker. _ he think is responsible now? well, mr speaker. in _ he think is responsible now? well, mr speaker, in the _ he think is responsible now? well, mr speaker, in the spirit _ he think is responsible now? well, mr speaker, in the spirit of- he think is responsible now? well, mr speaker, in the spirit of the right honourable lady's opening remarks, can ijust say it really is a pleasure to see the right honourable lady here today, i was, though, expecting to face the labour leader's choice for the next deputy foreign minister if they win the election, so i am surprised that the lib dems leader isn't taking questions. and mr speaker... you will forgive me, you well forgive me

if i'd take the right honourable lady's predictions with a pinch of salt, after all, she confidently predicted that the right honourable member for islington norse word predicted that the right honourable memberfor islington norse word one day be prime minister. remember, this is a man who wanted to abolish the army, scrap trident, withdraw from nato and abandon ukraine, and what did she say to that? she couldn't wait for him to be prime minister. , , , ~ , mr minister. deputy prime minister. mr seaker, minister. deputy prime minister. mr speaker. it's — minister. deputy prime minister. mr speaker, it's absolutely _ minister. deputy prime minister. mr speaker, it's absolutely amazing - speaker, it's absolutely amazing that while the labour party is preparing to govern with a labour majority, his party is starting to prepare for opposition, mr speaker! and this week, at the national conservative conference, the member for devizes claimed the country's problems on the new religion, he even hit out at the dystopian fantasy ofjohn lennon. the member

for stockbridge said identifying falling birthing rates if the is the overarching threat to the uk, she criticised woke teaching for destroying children's souls and causing self—harm and suicide among people and the right honourable memberfor north people and the right honourable member for north east somerset really let the cat out of the bag when he said parties that try to gerrymander and up finding their clever schemes come back to bite them, as we found when insisting on voter id... the right honourable gentleman opposite, while working in no 10, said he had to listen to the radio every morning to find out what was really going on in the country. apparently he was surprised on a daily basis by what he learned. and most of his time was spent on day—to—day crisis management. 11 years on, mr speaker, nothing has changed. i’m years on, mr speaker, nothing has chanced. �* ., , .,

changed. i'm not quite sure what the cuestion changed. i'm not quite sure what the question was — changed. i'm not quite sure what the question was there, _ changed. i'm not quite sure what the question was there, mr _ changed. i'm not quite sure what the question was there, mr speaker. - changed. i'm not quite sure what the question was there, mr speaker. but if she wants to talk about this sort of thing, we all know what's going on with her and her leader, it's all lovey—dovey on the surface, they turnit lovey—dovey on the surface, they turn it on for the cameras, but as soon as they are off, it's a different story, they're at each other�*s throats. mr speaker, they are the phil and holly of british politics. mr are the phil and holly of british olitics. ~ ,,, ., ,, are the phil and holly of british olitics. ~ .~ , , , politics. mr speaker... deputy leader politics. mr speaker... deputy leader of— politics. mr speaker... deputy leader of the _ politics. mr speaker... deputy leader of the opposition. - politics. mr speaker... deputy i leader of the opposition. thank politics. mr speaker... deputy - leader of the opposition. thank you, mr speaker- — leader of the opposition. thank you, mr speaker- the _ leader of the opposition. thank you, mr speaker. the reality _ leader of the opposition. thank you, mr speaker. the reality is, _ leader of the opposition. thank you, mr speaker. the reality is, after- leader of the opposition. thank you, mr speaker. the reality is, after 13 i mr speaker. the reality is, after 13 years of two rule, they are still lurching from crisis to crisis and wallowing in their own mess, they can't solve the crisis because they are the crisis. the honourable member opposite should take more

note of what is happening at his conferences

again. if not now, when will waiting list... it will continue until i hear the end of the question. if i get any more interruptions it will take longer. mr speaker, they don't want to hear the question because they know the answer is that they've failed to the british people, so when will waiting list fall? i failed to the british people, so when will waiting list fall? i would centl sa when will waiting list fall? i would gently say to _ when will waiting list fall? i would gently say to the _ when will waiting list fall? i would gently say to the right _ when will waiting list fall? i would | gently say to the right honourable lady that— gently say to the right honourable lady that if she cares that much about— lady that if she cares that much about access to our health care, why is she _ about access to our health care, why is she opposing our minimum service levels? _ is she opposing our minimum service levels? , , ., . ., levels? they will provide core emergency — levels? they will provide core emergency services _ levels? they will provide core emergency services with - levels? they will provide core emergency services with vital| levels? they will provide core - emergency services with vital cover during health care strikes. does she not think that vulnerable patients deserve that level of care or is she too weak to stand up to her union paymasters? taste

too weak to stand up to her union paymasters?— too weak to stand up to her union -a masters? ~ . ., ., paymasters? we all want to minimum service levels- — paymasters? we all want to minimum service levels. it _ paymasters? we all want to minimum service levels. it is _ paymasters? we all want to minimum service levels. it is this _ service levels. it is this government that have failed to provide minimum service levels in all of ourtrains, provide minimum service levels in all of our trains, public services, because they have run them down and mismanage them for the last 13 years. it is notjust waiting times, mr speaker, 13 years after the landmark review into child poverty, sir michael says this government is on track to make child poverty worse with more than a quarter of our children living in poverty last year. when i was a young mother, i remember the sick feeling in my stomach not knowing if my wages would cover the bills, yet his government has taken a wrecking ball to measures by the last labour government to eradicate child poverty, even abolishing the child poverty, even abolishing the child poverty unit. they tried to justify this by saying they no longer needed a child poverty unit because they have abolished the child poverty targets, so can he tell us, what level of poverty he considers to be a success? it!

level of poverty he considers to be a success?— a success? i'd say to the right honourable — a success? i'd say to the right honourable lady, _ a success? i'd say to the right honourable lady, this - a success? i'd say to the right - honourable lady, this comprehensive schoolboy is not going to take any lectures from the party opposite about the lives of working people. what i would say is we have introduced record increases in the national living wage, something this party introduced and the party opposite failed to do so and we've taken! million working age people out of taken 1 million working age people out of an hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of hat is the record of my party and taken 1 million working age people out of one of which i am very proud. m speaker, the last labour government made it their mission to reduce the number of children in poverty by a million, we achieved that, under the tories, child poverty is nearly back to the level it was when labour last inherited the tory mess. after 13 years of the tories, they are stuck in a conveyor belt of crises and

while his party is preparing for opposition with their trunk tribute act conference over the road, labour have focused on fixing the real problems facing british people, the tories have picked their side, they are for the vested interests, for the oil companies and for the bankers, for those that are profiting from the crisis and not suffering from it, whether it's failing the millions of people anxiously waiting for treatment or overseeing a rise in child poverty, and while his colleagues spout nonsense at their carnival of conspiracy, i want to know when will his party stop blaming everybody else and realised that the problem is them? mr else and realised that the problem is them? ~ ,,, ., ,, , ., , is them? mr speaker, i will proudly defend our record _ is them? mr speaker, i will proudly defend our record in _ is them? mr speaker, i will proudly defend our record in office, - is them? mr speaker, i will proudly defend our record in office, 5096, l defend our record in office, 50%, near record levels of employment, crime down, a record minimum wage, and mr speaker, what is their

record? four general election defeats. 30 promises already broken, and one leader that is why the british people will never trust the labour party. british people will never trust the labour party-— british people will never trust the labour pa . ., ,, y., , . labour party. thank you very much, mr speaker- — labour party. thank you very much, mr speaker. would _ labour party. thank you very much, mr speaker. would my _ labour party. thank you very much, mr speaker. would my right - mr speaker. would my right honourable _ mr speaker. would my right honourable friend _ mr speaker. would my right honourable friend please . mr speaker. would my right . honourable friend please send mr speaker. would my right - honourable friend please send his condolences — honourable friend please send his condolences to _ honourable friend please send his condolences to the _ honourable friend please send his condolences to the family - honourable friend please send his condolences to the family of - honourable friend please send hisl condolences to the family of pilton will council — condolences to the family of pilton will council a — condolences to the family of pilton will council a gillian _ condolences to the family of pilton will council a gillian lemmon - condolences to the family of pilton will council a gillian lemmon whoi condolences to the family of piltoni will council a gillian lemmon who at the young _ will council a gillian lemmon who at the young age — will council a gillian lemmon who at the young age of— will council a gillian lemmon who at the young age of 22_ will council a gillian lemmon who at the young age of 22 tragically - will council a gillian lemmon who at the young age of 22 tragically died i the young age of 22 tragically died part way— the young age of 22 tragically died part way through _ the young age of 22 tragically died part way through the _ the young age of 22 tragically died part way through the election - the young age of 22 tragically died . part way through the election counts on friday _ part way through the election counts on friday this— part way through the election counts on friday. this means _ part way through the election counts on friday. this means that— part way through the election counts on friday. this means that the - part way through the election counts| on friday. this means that the whole election— on friday. this means that the whole election for— on friday. this means that the whole election for all— on friday. this means that the whole election for all three _ on friday. this means that the whole election for all three councillors - election for all three councillors has had — election for all three councillors has had to— election for all three councillors has had to be _ election for all three councillors has had to be voided _ election for all three councillors has had to be voided even- election for all three councillors l has had to be voided even though election for all three councillors - has had to be voided even though the returning _ has had to be voided even though the returning officer— has had to be voided even though the returning officer was— has had to be voided even though the returning officer was ready— has had to be voided even though the returning officer was ready to - returning officer was ready to declare — returning officer was ready to declare three _ returning officer was ready to declare three conservative i returning officer was ready to - declare three conservative sellers for the _ declare three conservative sellers for the hitton— declare three conservative sellers for the hilton water. _ declare three conservative sellers for the hilton water. perhaps - for the hilton water. perhaps following _ for the hilton water. perhaps following this _ for the hilton water. perhaps following this general- for the hilton water. perhaps - following this general experience my i’ilht following this general experience my right honourable _ following this general experience my right honourable friend _ following this general experience my right honourable friend will- following this general experience my right honourable friend will confirm i right honourable friend will confirm that the _ right honourable friend will confirm that the best — right honourable friend will confirm that the best way _ right honourable friend will confirm that the best way to _ right honourable friend will confirm that the best way to thank- that the best way to thank counsellor— that the best way to thank counsellor gillian - that the best way to thank| counsellor gillian lemmon that the best way to thank- counsellor gillian lemmon for her service _ counsellor gillian lemmon for her service is— counsellor gillian lemmon for her service is for— counsellor gillian lemmon for her service is for the _ counsellor gillian lemmon for her service is for the good _ counsellor gillian lemmon for her service is for the good people - counsellor gillian lemmon for her service is for the good people of. service is for the good people of hitton— service is for the good people of hilton ward _ service is for the good people of hilton ward in _ service is for the good people of hilton ward in south _ service is for the good people of hilton ward in south derbyshirel service is for the good people of. hilton ward in south derbyshire to vote again — hilton ward in south derbyshire to vote again three _ hilton ward in south derbyshire to vote again three times _ hilton ward in south derbyshire to vote again three times for - hilton ward in south derbyshire to vote again three times for the - hilton ward in south derbyshire to i vote again three times for the three conservative — vote again three times for the three conservative candidates _ vote again three times for the three conservative candidates on - vote again three times for the three| conservative candidates on thursday the 15th _ conservative candidates on thursday the 15th of— conservative candidates on thursday

the 15th ofjune~ — conservative candidates on thursday the 15th ofjune._ the 15th ofjune. well, mr speaker, ma i the 15th ofjune. well, mr speaker, may i extend _ the 15th ofjune. well, mr speaker, may i extend my — the 15th ofjune. well, mr speaker, may i extend my deepest _ the 15th ofjune. well, mr speaker, i may i extend my deepest sympathies on behalf of these benches and the conservative party to counsellor gillian lemmon's family, we all know how incredibly hard local councillors were and she was a strong representative of south derbyshire. like my honourable friend i do hope that the people of hilton ward will reflect on this by voting for conservative candidates at the forthcoming election. we now come to the — at the forthcoming election. we now come to the deputy _ at the forthcoming election. we now come to the deputy leader— at the forthcoming election. we now come to the deputy leader of- at the forthcoming election. we now come to the deputy leader of the - at the forthcoming election. we nowl come to the deputy leader of the snp mhairi _ come to the deputy leader of the snp mhairi black — come to the deputy leader of the snp mhairi lblack-— mhairi black. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016, mhairi black. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016. the — mhairi black. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016. the deputy — mhairi black. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016, the deputy prime _ mhairi black. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016, the deputy prime minister. in 2016, the deputy prime minister told his— in 2016, the deputy prime minister told his constituents in a blog that it was— told his constituents in a blog that it was his — told his constituents in a blog that it was his duty to, and i quote, furnish — it was his duty to, and i quote, furnish them with all the facts that are available with regards to brexit~ — are available with regards to brexit. today, brexit britain faces higher— brexit. today, brexit britain faces higher food prices, a lack of workers. _ higher food prices, a lack of workers, a shrinking economy and a decline _ workers, a shrinking economy and a decline in— workers, a shrinking economy and a decline in living standards. why is he happy— decline in living standards. why is he happy to ignore those facts? the

rime he happy to ignore those facts? the prime minister. well, _ he happy to ignore those facts? the prime minister. well, mr— he happy to ignore those facts? the prime minister. well, mr speaker, | he happy to ignore those facts? the l prime minister. well, mr speaker, we have one of — prime minister. well, mr speaker, we have one of the _ prime minister. well, mr speaker, we have one of the fastest _ prime minister. well, mr speaker, we have one of the fastest growth - prime minister. well, mr speaker, we have one of the fastest growth rates i have one of the fastest growth rates in the whole of the g7. since brexit. look, we all know, and in fairness, we all know the policy of the snp, and they said it this weekend, and i quote, we need to undo brexit. but let me tell you... if i were them, i would start by undoing the mess they have left scotland in and start working with the united kingdom government and focus on the priorities of the scottish people not the priorities of their party. mr scottish people not the priorities of their party-— scottish people not the priorities oftheir -a . ~ .~ ., , of their party. mr speaker, the only thing more — of their party. mr speaker, the only thing more deluded _ of their party. mr speaker, the only thing more deluded than _ of their party. mr speaker, the only thing more deluded than that - of their party. mr speaker, the only l thing more deluded than that defence of brexit— thing more deluded than that defence of brexit is— thing more deluded than that defence of brexit is the labour party's supporting of it. now, just today, the world's— supporting of it. now, just today, the world's fourth largest car manufacturer said that brexit was, and again. — manufacturer said that brexit was, and again. i— manufacturer said that brexit was, and again, i quote, a threat to our export— and again, i quote, a threat to our export business and the sustainability of our uk manufacturing options. even nigel

farage _ manufacturing options. even nigel farage can admit that brexit has failed, _ farage can admit that brexit has failed, so, — farage can admit that brexit has failed, so, mr speaker, why can't he? i_ failed, so, mr speaker, why can't he? ., , failed, so, mr speaker, why can't he? ., ., ., ., he? i would say to the honourable lad , one he? i would say to the honourable lady. one of— he? i would say to the honourable lady. one of the — he? i would say to the honourable lady, one of the best _ he? i would say to the honourable lady, one of the best ways - he? i would say to the honourable lady, one of the best ways of- lady, one of the best ways of getting behind industry in this country is getting behind the trade deals we are striking with many countries around the world which they singularly failed to oppose, and i see last week, the snp from esther to build a new scotland, i don't know whether she is aware, but the snp have been in powerfor 13 years... they should stop their focus on independence and focus on the priorities of the scottish people. the priorities of the scottish --eole. . ~. , the priorities of the scottish l people-_ thank the priorities of the scottish - people._ thank you, mr people. esther mcvey. thank you, mr seaker. people. esther mcvey. thank you, mr speaker- my — people. esther mcvey. thank you, mr speaker. my constituency _ people. esther mcvey. thank you, mr speaker. my constituency has - people. esther mcvey. thank you, mr speaker. my constituency has a - speaker. my constituency has a problem — speaker. my constituency has a problem with travellers pitching on private _ problem with travellers pitching on private land and common land and causing _ private land and common land and causing a —

private land and common land and causing a nuisance, currently on parkgate — causing a nuisance, currently on parkgate industrial estate in knutsford. eitherthe parkgate industrial estate in knutsford. either the police don't have _ knutsford. either the police don't have sufficient powers to deal with this issue — have sufficient powers to deal with this issue all they do have sufficient powers but they are not using _ sufficient powers but they are not using them. so, willthe sufficient powers but they are not using them. so, will the deputy minister— using them. so, will the deputy minister get the government to speak with cheshire police to ensure that they do— with cheshire police to ensure that they do have the powers to deal with this blight— they do have the powers to deal with this blight on our local community and that— this blight on our local community and that they use them?— this blight on our local community and that they use them? well, my riaht and that they use them? well, my right honourable _ and that they use them? well, my right honourable friend _ and that they use them? well, my right honourable friend is - right honourable friend is absolutely right to highlight the misery caused by unauthorised encampments, i've seen this in my own constituency as well. i understand that home office officials do regularly liaise with the national police chiefs council on this but of course my right honourable friend the home secretary will have heard my right honourable friend's representations and i trust she will act on those. mr friend's representations and i trust she will act on those.— she will act on those. mr speaker, the deputy — she will act on those. mr speaker, the deputy parameter _ she will act on those. mr speaker, the deputy parameter will - she will act on those. mr speaker, the deputy parameter will be - she will act on those. mr speaker, | the deputy parameter will be aware of the ongoing concerns of unionists in northern ireland about our ability to trade freely within the

united kingdom and its internal market, given the continued operation of eu law on the manufacture of all goods in northern ireland. we now have proposals for a future border operating model that could potentially create further barriers to trade between northern ireland and great britain. will the dippy premise to give me an assurance that the government will in law protect northern ireland's ability to trade freely within and with the rest of the united kingdom? yes, well, iwould with the rest of the united kingdom? yes, well, i would like to say that we have already shown a willingness to legislate to protect northern ireland's place within the union and we are committed to providing exactly the protections that the right honourable gentleman refers to around northern ireland's unfettered access to the whole united kingdom market. so, i can give those assurances and of course we stand ready to work with the right honourable gentleman and representatives across unionism to reflect the further steps required to strengthen our precious union.

thank you, mr speaker. throughout the early hours of saturday morning i was out with cathy, peter, joe and tim who volunteer as guildford street angels. i pay tribute to them and all the volunteers who are out every weekend and in all weather. but mr speaker, it is an absolute disgrace that the liberal democrats run council shut the public loos. at night, there are no single sexy spaces for our young women and they are seeking out dark, secluded areas if they are caught short, which is dangerous. they are at increased risk of sexual assault. will my right honourable friend join me in calling for the immediate reopening of the town centre losing guildford? i thank my honourable friend for raising this very important issue and sadly, i'm afraid that is what one might expect from a lib dems run council. i dojoin her in thanking

the guildford street angels for all of their efforts and i'm sure that they and she will continue to make those views known to guildford borough council.— those views known to guildford borough council. thank you very much, borough council. thank you very much. mr— borough council. thank you very much, mr speaker. _ borough council. thank you very much, mr speaker. many - borough council. thank you very much, mr speaker. many of- borough council. thank you very much, mr speaker. many of my| much, mr speaker. many of my constituents are struggling to pay the bills and put food on the table. food prices have risen by over 19% in the last year, the cheapest infant formula is up a5%, gas 129%, electricity 67%, many people are borrowing more money than this time last year, car manufacturers, 100 billion has been lost from the economy forever according to the obr and wages falling further and further behind, so, does he really still believe government's kamikaze brexit is delivering for the people of these aisles? i brexit is delivering for the people of these aisles?— of these aisles? i certainly do believe that, _ of these aisles? i certainly do believe that, mr _ of these aisles? i certainly do believe that, mr speaker. - of these aisles? i certainly do | believe that, mr speaker. and of these aisles? i certainly do i believe that, mr speaker. and i would say to the members on those ventures that it is only because of

the strength of our united kingdom that we are able to afford the sort of interventions for example that we have had with the cost of living, with over £3300 for every single family in our united kingdom, paid for by 75% windfall tax on oil and gas companies, that is a united kingdom delivering on the cost of living. kingdom delivering on the cost of livina. . ~' ,. ~ kingdom delivering on the cost of livina. . ~ ~ .,~ living. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016 we secured _ living. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016 we secured over— living. thank you, mr speaker. in 2016 we secured over £300 - living. thank you, mr speaker. in i 2016 we secured over £300 million for the modernisation of a&e services in shropshire. six years on, that money has still not been spent, and construction hasn't started. i have a real concern about the quality of managers within our local nhs trust, that this decision has not been taken, what can my right honourable friend do to help us in shropshire to ensure that finally the £312 million is spent and that a&e services are modernised, because there is nothing more important than the safety of constituents when they go into a&e

services? ~ ,., , , constituents when they go into a&e services? ~ ,._ , ., , services? well, i pay tribute to my honourable — services? well, i pay tribute to my honourable friend _ services? well, i pay tribute to my honourable friend for _ services? well, i pay tribute to my honourable friend for raising - services? well, i pay tribute to my honourable friend for raising this i honourable friend for raising this issue _ honourable friend for raising this issue i— honourable friend for raising this issue. i know that his constituents are anxious — issue. i know that his constituents are anxious for building work to get under— are anxious for building work to get under way— are anxious for building work to get under way as soon as possible and i know— under way as soon as possible and i know that _ under way as soon as possible and i know that the department for health are working closely with nhs england and the _ are working closely with nhs england and the trust to support the developer and of the skin, and the trust _ developer and of the skin, and the trust is _ developer and of the skin, and the trust is due — developer and of the skin, and the trust is due to submit plans to the department for help in the coming months _ department for help in the coming months and the department will work at pace _ months and the department will work at pace to— months and the department will work at pace to review those plans. thank ou, mr at pace to review those plans. thank you. mr speaker- — at pace to review those plans. thank you, mr speaker. leaseholders - at pace to review those plans. thank you, mr speaker. leaseholders in i you, mr speaker. leaseholders in battersea are trapped in an outdated and unfair leasehold system. the secretary of state said, and i quote, the government would absolutely maintain a commitment to abolish the leasehold system and would bring forward legislation shortly. but we now know that this is no longer the case. so, deputy foreign minister, why has the government yet again done another u—turn and yet again broken another promise to leaseholders to scrap its

plans to end the outdated leaseholder system? plans to end the outdated leaseholders stem? ~ ., leaseholder system? well, i would like to reassure _ leaseholder system? well, i would like to reassure the _ leaseholder system? well, i would like to reassure the honourable - leaseholder system? well, i would l like to reassure the honourable lady and members of this house that the government is committed to reforming the leaseholder system to give homeowners greater control and give cheaper access to leaseholder renewal. including a 990 year extension with zero financial ground rent, and we will set out plans for further reforms later in this parliament.— further reforms later in this parliament. ., ., , ., parliament. what would be a reason for extending _ parliament. what would be a reason for extending the _ parliament. what would be a reason for extending the general— parliament. what would be a reason for extending the general election . for extending the general election franchise — for extending the general election franchise to settle the eu citizens a population of voters equal to the number— a population of voters equal to the number in — a population of voters equal to the number in wales?— a population of voters equal to the number in wales? well, i think my honourable — number in wales? well, i think my honourable friend _ number in wales? well, i think my honourable friend is _ number in wales? well, i think my honourable friend is referring - number in wales? well, i think my honourable friend is referring to i honourable friend is referring to the plans from the party opposite, and it is actually quite interesting that this week, while we are pushing ahead with legislation to break the smuggling gangs, what is labour's

big idea, give foreign nationals a say in our elections? so, there we have it. while the conservatives will stop the boats, labour will rig the votes. thank you, mr speaker. i was concerned to read last week that the prime minister had to be airlifted to a pharmacy in southampton after suffering electoral dysfunction. several weeks earlier he flew all the way from lancashire to yorkshire by private jet. the way from lancashire to yorkshire by privatejet. meanwhile, angry rail commuters faced the reality of cancellations, longerjourney times cancellations, longer journey times and cancellations, longerjourney times and are unable to get to work on time as operators shed services. the public think that the prime minister has got his head in the clouds, they are right, aren't they? it is

has got his head in the clouds, they are right, aren't they?— are right, aren't they? it is quite extraordinary. — are right, aren't they? it is quite extraordinary, mr— are right, aren't they? it is quite extraordinary, mr speaker, - are right, aren't they? it is quite extraordinary, mr speaker, to i are right, aren't they? it is quite i extraordinary, mr speaker, to take lectures from the party opposite about the railways, when actually the head of the train drivers union actually sits on labour's and ec. and indeed she was described by the right honourable lady, the deputy leader of the labour party, as, quote, one of us. no wonder labour won't stand up to the militant rail unions, they literally let them drive their policies. mr speaker, incredible regeneration - drive their policies. mr speaker, incredible regeneration work- drive their policies. mr speaker, incredible regeneration work is i incredible regeneration work is taking — incredible regeneration work is taking place on teesside, led by our mayor— taking place on teesside, led by our mayor ben— taking place on teesside, led by our mayor ben houchen. we have seen a shameful— mayor ben houchen. we have seen a shameful attempt to smear the amazing — shameful attempt to smear the amazing project led by the honourable neighbour for middlesbrough who have i have given advance _ middlesbrough who have i have given advance notice to. will he confirm that it _ advance notice to. will he confirm that it was — advance notice to. will he confirm that it was always an integral part of the _ that it was always an integral part of the business case that the private — of the business case that the private sector good coinvestment alongside government and that the arrangements themselves have been checked _ arrangements themselves have been checked and approved by the

government? and will he reconfirm his full— government? and will he reconfirm his full support for the teesworks project. _ his full support for the teesworks project, reassure investors and join me in— project, reassure investors and join me in calling for the labour party to apologise for talking down teesside? my to apologise for talking down teesside?— to apologise for talking down teesside? g ., ., ., , teesside? my right honourable friend is absolutely — teesside? my right honourable friend is absolutely correct _ teesside? my right honourable friend is absolutely correct to _ teesside? my right honourable friend is absolutely correct to raise - teesside? my right honourable friend is absolutely correct to raise this - is absolutely correct to raise this issue, it is the uk's first report and it continues to attract billions of pounds of private sector investment and creating jobs and supporting the local economy. and i think the whole house will see through the inexcusable attempts by the labour party to talk down those successes on teesside where local leaders are working tirelessly to improve that region for the first time in a generation.— improve that region for the first time in a generation. thank you, mr seaker. time in a generation. thank you, mr speaker- in — time in a generation. thank you, mr speaker. in 2011, _ time in a generation. thank you, mr speaker. in 2011, the _ time in a generation. thank you, mr speaker. in 2011, the first _ time in a generation. thank you, mr speaker. in 2011, the first year- speaker. in 2011, the first year that the tories came into government, 61,000 people receive emergency food parcels from food banks. in 2022—23, that figure had

gone up to nearly 3 million. 1 million of them children. it has gone up every year that the conservatives have been in so, will he tell the house, is that a record that he proudly defends? i am he tell the house, is that a record that he proudly defends? i am very roud of that he proudly defends? i am very proud of the _ that he proudly defends? i am very proud of the fact _ that he proudly defends? i am very proud of the fact that _ that he proudly defends? i am very proud of the fact that this - proud of the fact that this government has given record numbers of people the opportunity to have jobs and employment, which is the surest route out of poverty, and it is the case that i believe up to 3.6 million newjobs have been created under this government. it is million new jobs have been created under this government.— under this government. it is truly excellent news _ under this government. it is truly excellent news to _ under this government. it is truly excellent news to see _ under this government. it is truly excellent news to see england i under this government. it is truly i excellent news to see england rising up excellent news to see england rising up the _ excellent news to see england rising up the international league tables for reading to become the highest performing country in the western world. _ performing country in the western world, that is testament to the hard work of— world, that is testament to the hard work of our— world, that is testament to the hard work of our teachers and the dead if occasion— work of our teachers and the dead if occasion of— work of our teachers and the dead if occasion of our honourable friend from _ occasion of our honourable friend from bognor to follow evidence—based poiicy~ _ from bognor to follow evidence—based policy this _ from bognor to follow evidence—based policy. this will only be sustained if children— policy. this will only be sustained if children are in school regularly and able — if children are in school regularly and able to learn so, strongly commend _ and able to learn so, strongly commend to him and to the government

be ten _ commend to him and to the government be ten minute rule bill presented by my honourable friend which has cross—party support, delivers on key recommendations of the education select— recommendations of the education select committee and the children's commissioner, the government should adopt it _ commissioner, the government should adopt it as— commissioner, the government should adopt it as soon as possible. my adopt it as soon as possible. honourable adopt it as soon as possible. m honourable friend is adopt it as soon as possible. m1: honourable friend is absolutely right to highlight those brilliant figures which show that we have now jumped to the fourth best in the whole world for reading. and i certainly see in schools, it is much more demanding than it was in my day and that is tribute to the ministerial team that have done such a fabulousjob, i ministerial team that have done such a fabulous job, i will of course examine the details of the ten minute rule bill to which he refers. mr speaker, it is an open secret that many in the conservative party would wish to roll back the democratic gains of devolution either in part or completely. the noble lord frost, former minister, the architect of the disastrous brexit agreement and now i believe are seeking a safe tory seat in this chamber, recently let the cat out of the bag when he said the government should review and rollback some

devolved powers. does the deputy promised that agree with him? i would say to the honourable gentleman, the only thing that will destroy devolution is a vote for independence in scotland, as advocated by those on those benches. forgive very much, and can i congratulate my right honourable friend on a brilliant first performance at prime minister's questions. will he keep the government laser focused on the issues that matter to people like the cost of living on the nhs, and on the issues of the future like artificial intelligence, which needs regulatory attention, and ignore the reactionary voices, no matter where they come from. my reactionary voices, no matter where they come from-— reactionary voices, no matter where they come from. my right honourable friend is absolutely _ they come from. my right honourable friend is absolutely right _ they come from. my right honourable friend is absolutely right to _ friend is absolutely right to highlight this. i'm incredibly optimistic about the future of this country in industries across the piece including digital orfilm and

television in my own constituency. we are genuinely world leading, creating high—qualityjobs that we would want our children or grandchildren to have. halli! would want our children or grandchildren to have. half the children in _ grandchildren to have. half the children in newcastle - grandchildren to have. half the children in newcastle central i grandchildren to have. half the i children in newcastle central are growing up in poverty. over the last five years, the delivery of food parcels to northeast children has risen by 250%. the number of north—east children who are homeless rose by 50% last year and on average their parents wages were falling by £1000, their parents wages were falling by e1000, and ifany their parents wages were falling by e1000, and if any of this affects their mental health, they face a five month wait for treatment. why is his government making it so hard for our kids? i is his government making it so hard for our kids?— for our kids? i really think this house needs _ for our kids? i really think this house needs a _ for our kids? i really think this house needs a correction i for our kids? i really think this house needs a correction on i for our kids? i really think this i house needs a correction on the facts, given what has come from the party opposite. it is the case that because of our national living wage, defined as at least two thirds of

medium income, it's at its lowest point for years and we have lifted 1.7 million people out of absolute poverty altogether. that is the track record of this government. the eo - le track record of this government. the --eole of track record of this government. the: people of longford and burslem as well as my neighbouring constituency in newcastle are suffering because of cowboy waste disposal is like staffordshire waste who have again been done for having waste that was not meant to be on site and given notice by the environment agency. what support can i get in holding these people to account and making sure their retrospective planning application for a site they are using which they didn't get planning permission before using is rejected by stoke—on—trent city council. my honourable friend is right to raise this issue of those kinds of people and we often see them associated with fly—tipping, which is a blight on our landscape. i will ensure i

raise all of the issues he has raised with me with my right honourable friends and the secretary of state for levelling up who has ministerial responsibility. crisis mental health _ ministerial responsibility. crisis mental health services - ministerial responsibility. crisis mental health services are i ministerial responsibility. crisis mental health services are in i mental health services are in crisis. patients and families gas lit and at risk. it is mental health awareness week but no government awareness week but no government awareness to ensure my constituents are safe and funding and workforce needs met, so why is his government sat on their hands with a devastating report sat on the health secretary's desk while patients in york and across the nhs are being failed? can i and the trust have an urgent meeting? i’m failed? can i and the trust have an urgent meeting?— failed? can i and the trust have an urgent meeting? i'm sure one of my ministerial colleagues _ urgent meeting? i'm sure one of my ministerial colleagues will _ urgent meeting? i'm sure one of my ministerial colleagues will be - urgent meeting? i'm sure one of my ministerial colleagues will be happy | ministerial colleagues will be happy to have that meeting and i would just say that under this government we put more money into mental health services and actually we are funding 150 wider capital schemes, so this

government has made mental health services a priority. this government has made mental health services a priority.— services a priority. this week is wales tourism _ services a priority. this week is wales tourism week, _ services a priority. this week is wales tourism week, an - services a priority. this week is i wales tourism week, an opportunity to celebrate one of wales's most important businesses which represents 10% of alljobs, supports welsh farmers and food producers and generates £6 billion in economic activity each year. will the deputy prime ministerjoined me in thanking all of those who work in the wales tourism sector and would he agree with me that this uk government bill demonstrates his commitment to supporting the tourism sector, unlike labour in cardiff who proposed tourism tax would undermine visits and undermine jobs. proposed tourism tax would undermine visits and underminejobs. weill. proposed tourism tax would undermine visits and undermine jobs.— visits and undermine “obs. well, of course rm — visits and undermine “obs. well, of course i'm most i visits and undermine jobs. well, of course i'm most happy _ visits and undermine jobs. well, of course i'm most happy to - visits and undermine jobs. well, of course i'm most happy to give i visits and undermine jobs. well, of course i'm most happy to give that| course i'm most happy to give that commitment to my honourable friend andindeed commitment to my honourable friend and indeed i've spent many happy family holidays in wales and plan to do so again next year.

being rude, there wasn't a lot in that exchange that i could really take out or extract between the two of them question what a little bit of them question what a little bit of knock—about, and we talked before that actually the gusset was oliver dowden was a bit nervous because it was the first time he'd have to be doing it. what did he make of it? he: did look prepared. and you could hear some of those familiar sound bites and the one that really landed was calling keir starmer and angela rayner the feel and holly of british politics but it all felt a bit rehearsed and i'm not sure we really got much engagement on the substance of it and i think the tricky question that oliver dowden did not answer was the one about when he resigned. i think angela rayner said

it was over the local elections but i think it was two by—elections because i remember standing when it came through that he had resigned because the tories had lost the seats they had held for years all the tory mps are asking and you hear it from your colleagues as well, what was behind the pounding the local elections and how you will turnit local elections and how you will turn it around. i'm local elections and how you will turn itaround. i'm not local elections and how you will turn it around. i'm not sure oliver dowden wanted to talk about it. i’m dowden wanted to talk about it. i'm sure he will prefer it to next week but we will pick up some of the issues with our guests. —— defer it to next week. let's look at this headline, vauxhall warns brexit says it may force it to close uk factory. one of the worlds biggest car—makers and they called on the government to renegotiate part of the brexit deal or risk losing parts of its car industry. this is the owner vauxhall, citroen and fiat who committed to making electric cars but said it was and it is to threat

do with the fact they will no longer be able to meet brexit trade rules from where various parts are sourced. what does it say about the brexit agreement negotiated by the government when you have a car—maker saying it will not work for them? that was one of the last pieces of the brexit— that was one of the last pieces of the brexit agreement to be agreed that 45%_ the brexit agreement to be agreed that a5% of electric vehicle components would have to be manufactured in the uk or eu to avoid _ manufactured in the uk or eu to avoid tariff free trade but the challenge we have in the uk and eu is we _ challenge we have in the uk and eu is we don't — challenge we have in the uk and eu is we don't have those battery factories — is we don't have those battery factories set up, so what we are looking — factories set up, so what we are looking to — factories set up, so what we are looking to do is work with partners in the _ looking to do is work with partners in the european union to see if it's possible _ in the european union to see if it's possible to — in the european union to see if it's possible to get some form of extension because we are still not there _ extension because we are still not there and — extension because we are still not there and the eu in terms of battery production— there and the eu in terms of battery production and we want to be. in this country— production and we want to be. in this country we have a fund of the automotive — this country we have a fund of the automotive transformation which was billion— automotive transformation which was billion pounds to look at this and nissan— billion pounds to look at this and nissan are — billion pounds to look at this and nissan are putting £1 billion in and we are _

nissan are putting £1 billion in and we are working with our partners in europe _ we are working with our partners in europe and — we are working with our partners in europe and we have a renewed relationship to see if we can get some _ relationship to see if we can get some form of extension so the tariff doesn't _ some form of extension so the tariff doesn't kick— some form of extension so the tariff doesn't kick in from next year as is currently— doesn't kick in from next year as is currently planned. keir doesn't kick in from next year as is currently planned.— doesn't kick in from next year as is currently planned. keir starmer has said he would _ currently planned. keir starmer has said he would look— currently planned. keir starmer has said he would look at _ currently planned. keir starmer has said he would look at the _ currently planned. keir starmer has said he would look at the brexit i said he would look at the brexit deal and renegotiate it. what does he mean? fin deal and renegotiate it. what does he mean? .., . . deal and renegotiate it. what does he mean? , , , deal and renegotiate it. what does hemean? , , ., , he mean? on cars, this is really serious stop _ he mean? on cars, this is really serious stop this _ he mean? on cars, this is really serious stop this is _ he mean? on cars, this is really serious stop this is a _ he mean? on cars, this is really| serious stop this is a cornerstone of our— serious stop this is a cornerstone of our manufacturing industry and hugely— of our manufacturing industry and hugely important when this deal was struck— hugely important when this deal was struck we _ hugely important when this deal was struck we were promised to bigger things _ struck we were promised to bigger thin . s. . . struck we were promised to bigger thin . s. . , ., struck we were promised to bigger thins. . , ., , struck we were promised to bigger thins. ., ., , ., things. one was there would be no tariffs and the _ things. one was there would be no tariffs and the other— things. one was there would be no tariffs and the other was _ things. one was there would be no tariffs and the other was there i tariffs and the other was there would — tariffs and the other was there would be — tariffs and the other was there would be no _ tariffs and the other was there would be no nontariff- tariffs and the other was there would be no nontariff barriersi tariffs and the other was there i would be no nontariff barriers and nontariff — would be no nontariff barriers and nontariff barriers, _ would be no nontariff barriers and nontariff barriers, that's - would be no nontariff barriers and nontariff barriers, that's clearly. nontariff barriers, that's clearly been _ nontariff barriers, that's clearly been nonsense. _ nontariff barriers, that's clearly been nonsense. there - nontariff barriers, that's clearly been nonsense. there are i nontariff barriers, that's clearly| been nonsense. there are huge nontariff barriers, that's clearly- been nonsense. there are huge costs in red _ been nonsense. there are huge costs in red tape _ been nonsense. there are huge costs in red tape for— been nonsense. there are huge costs in red tape for british— been nonsense. there are huge costs in red tape for british businesses- in red tape for british businesses but this— in red tape for british businesses but this is— in red tape for british businesses but this is even _ in red tape for british businesses but this is even more _ in red tape for british businesses but this is even more serious- but this is even more serious because _ but this is even more serious because this _ but this is even more serious because this is _ but this is even more serious because this is threatening i but this is even more serious- because this is threatening tariffs and we _ because this is threatening tariffs and we need _ because this is threatening tariffs and we need to— because this is threatening tariffs and we need to do— because this is threatening tariffs and we need to do two— because this is threatening tariffs and we need to do two things i because this is threatening tariffs and we need to do two things in i and we need to do two things in response — and we need to do two things in response to _ and we need to do two things in response to this _ and we need to do two things in response to this stop _ and we need to do two things in response to this stop first - and we need to do two things in response to this stop first of- and we need to do two things in response to this stop first of all| response to this stop first of all try to _ response to this stop first of all try to extend _ response to this stop first of all try to extend the _ response to this stop first of all try to extend the current - try to extend the current arrangement— try to extend the current arrangement and- try to extend the current arrangement and buy i try to extend the current i arrangement and buy some try to extend the current - arrangement and buy some time, try to extend the current _ arrangement and buy some time, but secondly. _ arrangement and buy some time, but secondly. there — arrangement and buy some time, but secondly, there is— arrangement and buy some time, but secondly, there is no— arrangement and buy some time, but secondly, there is no point— arrangement and buy some time, but secondly, there is no point in- arrangement and buy some time, but secondly, there is no point in doing i secondly, there is no point in doing that unless — secondly, there is no point in doing that unless we _ secondly, there is no point in doing that unless we catch _ secondly, there is no point in doing that unless we catch up _ secondly, there is no point in doing that unless we catch up on - secondly, there is no point in doing that unless we catch up on batteryi that unless we catch up on battery factories. — that unless we catch up on battery factories, because _ that unless we catch up on battery factories, because at _

that unless we catch up on battery factories, because at the - that unless we catch up on battery factories, because at the heart i that unless we catch up on battery factories, because at the heart of| factories, because at the heart of this is— factories, because at the heart of this is the — factories, because at the heart of this is the truth _ factories, because at the heart of this is the truth that _ factories, because at the heart of this is the truth that unless - factories, because at the heart of this is the truth that unless a i this is the truth that unless a country— this is the truth that unless a country is _ this is the truth that unless a country is making _ this is the truth that unless a country is making the - this is the truth that unless a i country is making the batteries in the longer— country is making the batteries in the longer term, _ country is making the batteries in the longer term, it's _ country is making the batteries in the longer term, it's unlikely- country is making the batteries in the longer term, it's unlikely to i country is making the batteries ml the longer term, it's unlikely to be making _ the longer term, it's unlikely to be making the — the longer term, it's unlikely to be making the cars, _ the longer term, it's unlikely to be making the cars, and _ the longer term, it's unlikely to be making the cars, and the - the longer term, it's unlikely to be making the cars, and the truth i the longer term, it's unlikely to be making the cars, and the truth is, i making the cars, and the truth is, we have _ making the cars, and the truth is, we have fallen _ making the cars, and the truth is, we have fallen behind _ making the cars, and the truth is, we have fallen behind in - making the cars, and the truth is, we have fallen behind in the - making the cars, and the truth is, we have fallen behind in the racei we have fallen behind in the race for battery— we have fallen behind in the race for battery factories. _ we have fallen behind in the race for battery factories. they - we have fallen behind in the race for battery factories. they are i for battery factories. they are popping — for battery factories. they are popping up— for battery factories. they are popping up all— for battery factories. they are popping up all over— for battery factories. they are popping up all over europe. it for battery factories. they are i popping up all over europe. it has not been — popping up all over europe. it has not been happening _ popping up all over europe. it has not been happening here - popping up all over europe. it has not been happening here so- popping up all over europe. it has not been happening here so far. popping up all over europe. it has i not been happening here so far and we have _ not been happening here so far and we have got— not been happening here so far and we have got to _ not been happening here so far and we have got to catch _ not been happening here so far and we have got to catch up _ not been happening here so far and we have got to catch up and - not been happening here so far and we have got to catch up and catch i not been happening here so far and. we have got to catch up and catch up fast. bite _ we have got to catch up and catch up fast. ~ , ., ., , fast. we will respond to the holes in the lhrexit _ fast. we will respond to the holes in the brexit ingredients. - fast. we will respond to the holes in the brexit ingredients. it i fast. we will respond to the holes in the brexit ingredients. it can't. in the brexit ingredients. it can't be the case _ in the brexit ingredients. it can't be the case they _ in the brexit ingredients. it can't be the case they are _ in the brexit ingredients. it can't be the case they are popping i in the brexit ingredients. it can't be the case they are popping up| be the case they are popping up across europe because we would meet the requirements and we have to make sure the batteries are made in the uk or europe and the reason car manufacturers are concerned is they are not being produced in either so i don't accept that point. that would fix it, if the eu had battery plans in place but i accept we need them across europe in the uk, not least for our resilience.— least for our resilience. would you acce -t least for our resilience. would you accept that — least for our resilience. would you accept that when _ least for our resilience. would you accept that when boris _ least for our resilience. would you accept that when boris johnson . accept that when boris johnson promised tariff free trade, that's not what we have got, havili, with this deal? in not what we have got, havili, with this deal? , , ., . this deal? in this instance it will no this deal? in this instance it will .0 u . this deal? in this instance it will no u- in this deal? in this instance it will 90 up in 2024 — this deal? in this instance it will 90 up in 2024 if— this deal? in this instance it will go up in 2024 if that _ this deal? in this instance it willi

go up in 2024 if that component cannot be made. we've always had these in place in terms of the globe when we were members of the eu, so that's no different, but as we strike out on our own it means we will have to be more responsible and accountable on our own but we ended up accountable on our own but we ended up with the positives of a free trade deal across the globe, so ironically you could end up in a better place, trailing outside of the eu, solving some of these issues and being a member of the eu. there is always a give and take. fine and being a member of the eu. there is always a give and take.— is always a give and take. one of the things _ is always a give and take. one of the things i _ is always a give and take. one of the things i hadn't _ is always a give and take. one of the things i hadn't heard, - is always a give and take. one of the things i hadn't heard, when i i the things i hadn't heard, when i asked about renegotiating, what are you going to renegotiate? are you going to reopen the brexit treaty? there is gap talked about this in the past. — there is gap talked about this in the past, recognition _ there is gap talked about this in the past, recognition of- the past, recognition of professional— the past, recognition of. professional convocations the past, recognition of- professional convocations or the past, recognition of— professional convocations or service industries _ professional convocations or service industries which _ professional convocations or service industries which is _ professional convocations or service industries which is important, - industries which is important, pertussis— industries which is important, pertussis patient— industries which is important, pertussis patient in— industries which is important, pertussis patient in the - industries which is important, i pertussis patient in the horizon scheme — pertussis patient in the horizon scheme. �* ., , ., pertussis patient in the horizon scheme. �* ., ., ., scheme. but aside from doing that aside, and talk _ scheme. but aside from doing that aside, and talk of _ scheme. but aside from doing that aside, and talk of reopening - scheme. but aside from doing that aside, and talk of reopening the i aside, and talk of reopening the brexit treaty and a close relationship with the eu, what would it mean in practice? it relationship with the eu, what would it mean in practice?— it mean in practice? it would mean those two things, _ it mean in practice? it would mean those two things, hopefully - it mean in practice? it would mean those two things, hopefully that i those two things, hopefully that this all—

those two things, hopefully that this att has— those two things, hopefully that this all has to _ those two things, hopefully that this all has to be _ those two things, hopefully that this all has to be negotiated. i those two things, hopefully that. this all has to be negotiated. what would ou this all has to be negotiated. what would you give _ this all has to be negotiated. what would you give up? _ this all has to be negotiated. what would you give up? nothing - this all has to be negotiated. what would you give up? nothing is - this all has to be negotiated. what would you give up? nothing is a i would you give up? nothing is a civen. would you give up? nothing is a given- the _ would you give up? nothing is a given. the third _ would you give up? nothing is a given. the third area _ would you give up? nothing is a given. the third area would - would you give up? nothing is a given. the third area would be i would you give up? nothing is a| given. the third area would be a would you give up? nothing is a - given. the third area would be a vet and every— given. the third area would be a vet and every agreement _ given. the third area would be a vet and every agreement if— given. the third area would be a vet and every agreement if we - given. the third area would be a vet and every agreement if we can - given. the third area would be a vet and every agreement if we can get i and every agreement if we can get one _ and every agreement if we can get one new— and every agreement if we can get one. new zealand _ and every agreement if we can get one. new zealand has _ and every agreement if we can get one. new zealand has got - and every agreement if we can get one. new zealand has got one - and every agreement if we can get one. new zealand has got one and and every agreement if we can get. one. new zealand has got one and we have a _ one. new zealand has got one and we have a mass— one. new zealand has got one and we have a mass of— one. new zealand has got one and we have a mass of red _ one. new zealand has got one and we have a mass of red tape _ one. new zealand has got one and we have a mass of red tape for— one. new zealand has got one and we have a mass of red tape for food - one. new zealand has got one and we have a mass of red tape for food and. have a mass of red tape for food and drink— have a mass of red tape for food and drink industries, _ have a mass of red tape for food and drink industries, and _ have a mass of red tape for food and drink industries, and look, _ have a mass of red tape for food and drink industries, and look, let's - have a mass of red tape for food and drink industries, and look, let's go l drink industries, and look, let's go back_ drink industries, and look, let's go back to _ drink industries, and look, let's go back to the — drink industries, and look, let's go back to the start _ drink industries, and look, let's go back to the start of— drink industries, and look, let's go back to the start of this, _ drink industries, and look, let's go back to the start of this, this - drink industries, and look, let's go back to the start of this, this is - back to the start of this, this is hugely— back to the start of this, this is hugely serious _ back to the start of this, this is hugely serious. we _ back to the start of this, this is hugely serious. we are - back to the start of this, this is hugely serious. we are not - back to the start of this, this is hugely serious. we are not in. back to the start of this, this isi hugely serious. we are not in a better— hugely serious. we are not in a better position _ hugely serious. we are not in a better position if _ hugely serious. we are not in a better position if we _ hugely serious. we are not in a better position if we lose - hugely serious. we are not in a better position if we lose the i better position if we lose the vauxhall— better position if we lose the vauxhall plants _ better position if we lose the vauxhall plants in _ better position if we lose the vauxhall plants in this - better position if we lose the. vauxhall plants in this country better position if we lose the - vauxhall plants in this country or, by the _ vauxhall plants in this country or, by the way. — vauxhall plants in this country or, by the way. and _ vauxhall plants in this country or, by the way, and vauxhall- vauxhall plants in this country or, by the way, and vauxhall won't i vauxhall plants in this country or, | by the way, and vauxhall won't be alone _ by the way, and vauxhall won't be alone because _ by the way, and vauxhall won't be alone because it— by the way, and vauxhall won't be alone because it will— by the way, and vauxhall won't be alone because it will be _ by the way, and vauxhall won't be alone because it will be the - by the way, and vauxhall won't be alone because it will be the samel alone because it will be the same rules— alone because it will be the same rules for— alone because it will be the same rules for every— alone because it will be the same rules for every car— alone because it will be the same rules for every car manufacturer. | rules for every car manufacturer. there _ rules for every car manufacturer. there is — rules for every car manufacturer. there is a — rules for every car manufacturer. there is a distinct _ rules for every car manufacturer. there is a distinct lack— rules for every car manufacturer. there is a distinct lack of - rules for every car manufacturer. | there is a distinct lack of urgency and there — there is a distinct lack of urgency and there are _ there is a distinct lack of urgency and there are battery— there is a distinct lack of urgency. and there are battery manufacturing plants _ and there are battery manufacturing plants popping — and there are battery manufacturing plants popping up — and there are battery manufacturing plants popping up in _ and there are battery manufacturing plants popping up in europe - and there are battery manufacturing plants popping up in europe and - and there are battery manufacturing plants popping up in europe and we| plants popping up in europe and we have fallen — plants popping up in europe and we have fallen behind _ plants popping up in europe and we have fallen behind on _ plants popping up in europe and we have fallen behind on this- plants popping up in europe and we have fallen behind on this and - plants popping up in europe and we| have fallen behind on this and every fall behind _ have fallen behind on this and every fall behind further— have fallen behind on this and every fall behind further it's _ have fallen behind on this and every fall behind further it's a _ have fallen behind on this and every fall behind further it's a big - fall behind further it's a big threat _ fall behind further it's a big threat to— fall behind further it's a big threat to the _ fall behind further it's a big threat to the whole - fall behind further it's a big - threat to the whole automotive industry — threat to the whole automotive industry lt— threat to the whole automotive indust . ., ., ~' threat to the whole automotive indust . ., ., ,, ., threat to the whole automotive indust . ., ., ., industry. it took a lot to get it in lace industry. it took a lot to get it in place and _ industry. it took a lot to get it in place and if _ industry. it took a lot to get it in place and if you _ industry. it took a lot to get it in place and if you want _ industry. it took a lot to get it in place and if you want to - industry. it took a lot to get it in place and if you want to reopen l industry. it took a lot to get it in l place and if you want to reopen an agreement, you have to give up things— agreement, you have to give up things to — agreement, you have to give up things to get things and it is not so much — things to get things and it is not so much what you seek to get, it's what _ so much what you seek to get, it's what you _ so much what you seek to get, it's what you will give up to get it and it will— what you will give up to get it and it will be — what you will give up to get it and it will be a — what you will give up to get it and it will be a massive mistake, especially when business needs certainty— especially when business needs certainty but we managed to get the

eu agreement with regards to northern ireland in place and worked well with— northern ireland in place and worked well with our friends in the eu but i don't _ well with our friends in the eu but i don't think they want to reopen it and idon't think they want to reopen it and nor— i don't think they want to reopen it and nor do — i don't think they want to reopen it and nor do we and they don't want to reopen— and nor do we and they don't want to reopen it _ and nor do we and they don't want to reopen it because they never believed _ reopen it because they never believed in the first place. the idea that we _ believed in the first place. the idea that we don't have uncertainty at the _ idea that we don't have uncertainty at the moment— idea that we don't have uncertainty at the moment is _ idea that we don't have uncertainty at the moment is ludicrous. - idea that we don't have uncertainty at the moment is ludicrous. everyi at the moment is ludicrous. every investor— at the moment is ludicrous. every investor we — at the moment is ludicrous. every investor we meet _ at the moment is ludicrous. every investor we meet says _ at the moment is ludicrous. every investor we meet says the - at the moment is ludicrous. everyl investor we meet says the political chaos _ investor we meet says the political chaos we've — investor we meet says the political chaos we've involved _ investor we meet says the political chaos we've involved with - investor we meet says the political chaos we've involved with has - investor we meet says the political chaos we've involved with has led i investor we meet says the political. chaos we've involved with has led to hu-e chaos we've involved with has led to huge uncertainty— chaos we've involved with has led to huge uncertainty and _ chaos we've involved with has led to huge uncertainty and there - chaos we've involved with has led to huge uncertainty and there was - chaos we've involved with has led to huge uncertainty and there was a i huge uncertainty and there was a review— huge uncertainty and there was a review of— huge uncertainty and there was a review of this _ huge uncertainty and there was a review of this in _ huge uncertainty and there was a review of this in 2025— huge uncertainty and there was a review of this in 2025 and - huge uncertainty and there was a review of this in 2025 and we - huge uncertainty and there was a review of this in 2025 and we can fill in _ review of this in 2025 and we can fill in some — review of this in 2025 and we can fill in some of— review of this in 2025 and we can fill in some of the _ review of this in 2025 and we can fill in some of the holes - review of this in 2025 and we can fill in some of the holes and - review of this in 2025 and we can fill in some of the holes and deali fill in some of the holes and deal with some — fill in some of the holes and deal with some of— fill in some of the holes and deal with some of the _ fill in some of the holes and deal with some of the nontariff - fill in some of the holes and deal. with some of the nontariff barriers and deal— with some of the nontariff barriers and deal with— with some of the nontariff barriers and deal with some _ with some of the nontariff barriers and deal with some of— with some of the nontariff barriers and deal with some of the - with some of the nontariff barriers and deal with some of the lead - with some of the nontariff barriers and deal with some of the lead to| and deal with some of the lead to the promises _ and deal with some of the lead to the promises— and deal with some of the lead to the romises. ., ., ., ., the promises. you have not said what she would give _ the promises. you have not said what she would give op _ the promises. you have not said what she would give up on _ the promises. you have not said what she would give up on your _ the promises. you have not said what she would give up on your side - the promises. you have not said what she would give up on your side but i she would give up on your side but let me give up this headline, as nigel farage says brexit has failed, something he compound his whole life for and i presume you agree with that. i for and i presume you agree with that. ., , for and i presume you agree with that. . , . ., .,

that. i heard his comment and he did remind me of— that. i heard his comment and he did remind me of some _ that. i heard his comment and he did remind me of some of _ that. i heard his comment and he did remind me of some of the _ that. i heard his comment and he did remind me of some of the people - that. i heard his comment and he did remind me of some of the people on| remind me of some of the people on the hard _ remind me of some of the people on the hard left — remind me of some of the people on the hard left who _ remind me of some of the people on the hard left who used _ remind me of some of the people on the hard left who used to _ remind me of some of the people on the hard left who used to say - remind me of some of the people on the hard left who used to say that i the hard left who used to say that the hard left who used to say that the trouble — the hard left who used to say that the trouble with _ the hard left who used to say that the trouble with communism - the hard left who used to say that the trouble with communism as i the hard left who used to say that the trouble with communism as it hasn't _ the trouble with communism as it hasn't been — the trouble with communism as it hasn't been tried _ the trouble with communism as it hasn't been tried properly, - the trouble with communism as it hasn't been tried properly, and i the trouble with communism as it l hasn't been tried properly, and that is what _ hasn't been tried properly, and that is what we — hasn't been tried properly, and that is what we are — hasn't been tried properly, and that is what we are now _ hasn't been tried properly, and that is what we are now hearing - hasn't been tried properly, and that is what we are now hearing from . hasn't been tried properly, and that. is what we are now hearing from some of the _ is what we are now hearing from some of the champions — is what we are now hearing from some of the champions of _ is what we are now hearing from some of the champions of this _ is what we are now hearing from some of the champions of this project, - of the champions of this project, that somehow— of the champions of this project, that somehow i— of the champions of this project, that somehow i heard _ of the champions of this project, that somehow i heard him - of the champions of this project, that somehow i heard him say. of the champions of this project, that somehow i heard him say it| of the champions of this project, - that somehow i heard him say it was all the _ that somehow i heard him say it was all the fault — that somehow i heard him say it was all the fault of — that somehow i heard him say it was all the fault of the _ that somehow i heard him say it was all the fault of the politicians - that somehow i heard him say it was all the fault of the politicians and - all the fault of the politicians and it hasn't— all the fault of the politicians and it hasn't been— all the fault of the politicians and it hasn't been invented _ all the fault of the politicians and it hasn't been invented properly. | it hasn't been invented properly. the truth — it hasn't been invented properly. the truth is, _ it hasn't been invented properly. the truth is, we _ it hasn't been invented properly. the truth is, we had _ it hasn't been invented properly. the truth is, we had a _ it hasn't been invented properly. the truth is, we had a number. it hasn't been invented properly. j the truth is, we had a number of broken _ the truth is, we had a number of broken promises _ the truth is, we had a number of broken promises on _ the truth is, we had a number of broken promises on this, - the truth is, we had a number of broken promises on this, brokenj broken promises on this, broken promises — broken promises on this, broken promises on _ broken promises on this, broken promises on what _ broken promises on this, broken promises on what the _ broken promises on this, broken promises on what the trade - broken promises on this, broken promises on what the trade dealj promises on what the trade deal would _ promises on what the trade deal would mean _ promises on what the trade deal would mean unbroken _ promises on what the trade deal would mean unbroken prices - promises on what the trade deal would mean unbroken prices on| would mean unbroken prices on northern— would mean unbroken prices on northern ireland _ would mean unbroken prices on northern ireland and _ would mean unbroken prices on northern ireland and broken - would mean unbroken prices on - northern ireland and broken promises and other— northern ireland and broken promises and other areas— northern ireland and broken promises and other areas and _ northern ireland and broken promises and other areas and we _ northern ireland and broken promises and other areas and we have - northern ireland and broken promises and other areas and we have to- northern ireland and broken promises and other areas and we have to have i and other areas and we have to have that better _ and other areas and we have to have that better relationship _ and other areas and we have to have that better relationship with - and other areas and we have to have that better relationship with the - that better relationship with the eu, without _ that better relationship with the eu, without rerunning _ that better relationship with the eu, without rerunning the - that better relationship with the| eu, without rerunning the brexit argument — eu, without rerunning the brexit aruument. ., eu, without rerunning the brexit aruument. . , eu, without rerunning the brexit aruument. ., , ~ eu, without rerunning the brexit aruument. . , . , argument. that might be tricky, but do ou argument. that might be tricky, but do you think — argument. that might be tricky, but do you think nigel _ argument. that might be tricky, but do you think nigel farage _ argument. that might be tricky, but do you think nigel farage has - argument. that might be tricky, but do you think nigel farage has got i argument. that might be tricky, but do you think nigel farage has got it| do you think nigel farage has got it right? do you think nigel farage has got it riuht? ., , ., ., .,, right? folly and of the last time i was here we _ right? folly and of the last time i was here we discuss _ right? folly and of the last time i was here we discuss the - right? folly and of the last time i was here we discuss the same i right? folly and of the last time i i was here we discuss the same thing nigel farage said about two years ago so it does tend to pop up stop did he say that two years ago? did ou sa did he say that two years ago? did you say he was right then and he's right now question i don't think it was right then or now and if you look at the ability to secure a vaccine when we had the pandemic

which we were able to do, that was a good argument put by so many satin nicks chair. but we could have done that, as you know and we could have done it within the eu, as we clarified. galic so we had to get the free trade agreements since we were last year, so there are successes that. just before we move on, oliver dowden made a bold statement about growth in the uk. he says that the uk had the fastest growing rate since brexit in the g7. that's not true, is it? that growing rate since brexit in the g7. that's not true, is it?— that's not true, is it? that would be for oliver _ that's not true, is it? that would be for oliver to _ that's not true, is it? that would be for oliver to account - that's not true, is it? that would be for oliver to account in - that's not true, is it? that would be for oliver to account in terms | that's not true, is it? that would l be for oliver to account in terms of where he gets his statistics but looking at it we've seen growth in the last three months when we put rejecting a recession so we think the economy is growing and one of the economy is growing and one of the five priorities, and we have a difficult backdrop right now. we have the slowest growth in the g7 since brexit, since we actually left the eu, so 2019, we have the slowest

and lowest growth since then. do you think you should come back and correct it? know which starting point he has used. ~ ., ., , used. when we left the eu formally. nick? ya mook _ used. when we left the eu formally. nick? ya mook i _ used. when we left the eu formally. nick? ya mooki know— used. when we left the eu formally. nick? ya mook i know you _ used. when we left the eu formally. nick? ya mook i know you want - used. when we left the eu formally. nick? ya mook i know you want to i nick? ya mook i know you want to move on from the brexit debate, but you sat your eight years ago and said the country would take it, the economy would take a hit if we left the european union, it seems curious nobody will see it now. i just the european union, it seems curious nobody will see it now.— nobody will see it now. i 'ust said that. i win — nobody will see it now. i 'ust said that. iwill confess, _ nobody will see it now. i 'ust said that. iwill confess, 1h nobody will see it now. ijust said that. iwill confess, iwas- nobody will see it now. ijust said that. i will confess, i was fairly i that. i will confess, i was fairly sceptical— that. i will confess, i was fairly sceptical about— that. i will confess, i was fairly sceptical about this _ that. i will confess, i was fairly sceptical about this project, i sceptical about this project, thought— sceptical about this project, thought it _ sceptical about this project, thought it might— sceptical about this project, thought it might not- sceptical about this project, thought it might not add - sceptical about this project, thought it might not add up| sceptical about this project, i thought it might not add up to everything _ thought it might not add up to everything that— thought it might not add up to everything that was _ thought it might not add up to everything that was promisedl thought it might not add up to i everything that was promised for thought it might not add up to - everything that was promised for it. ithink— everything that was promised for it. i think as _ everything that was promised for it. i think as we — everything that was promised for it. i think as we see _ everything that was promised for it. i think as we see some _ everything that was promised for it. i think as we see some of— everything that was promised for it. i think as we see some of the - i think as we see some of the consequences _ i think as we see some of the consequences we _ i think as we see some of the consequences we are - i think as we see some of the consequences we are talking i i think as we see some of the - consequences we are talking about today. _ consequences we are talking about today. that — consequences we are talking about today. that is — consequences we are talking about today, that is the _ consequences we are talking about today, that is the case. _ today, that is the case. acknowledging - today, that is the case. acknowledging that - today, that is the case. i acknowledging that does today, that is the case. - acknowledging that does not today, that is the case. _ acknowledging that does not mean... where _ acknowledging that does not mean... where this— acknowledging that does not mean... where this always _ acknowledging that does not mean... where this always goes _ acknowledging that does not mean... where this always goes is, _ acknowledging that does not mean... where this always goes is, if - acknowledging that does not mean... where this always goes is, if you - where this always goes is, if you say that, — where this always goes is, if you say that. you _ where this always goes is, if you say that, you must _ where this always goes is, if you say that, you must want - where this always goes is, if you say that, you must want to - where this always goes is, if youj say that, you must want to rerun where this always goes is, if you - say that, you must want to rerun the

argument _ say that, you must want to rerun the argument we — say that, you must want to rerun the argument we do— say that, you must want to rerun the argument. we do not— say that, you must want to rerun the argument. we do not want— say that, you must want to rerun the argument. we do not want to - say that, you must want to rerun the argument. we do not want to put - say that, you must want to rerun the | argument. we do not want to put the country— argument. we do not want to put the country through— argument. we do not want to put the country through this _ argument. we do not want to put the country through this again, _ argument. we do not want to put the country through this again, but - argument. we do not want to put the country through this again, but that i country through this again, but that does not _ country through this again, but that does not mean _ country through this again, but that does not mean accepting _ country through this again, but that| does not mean accepting everything as it has _ does not mean accepting everything as it has. jo — does not mean accepting everything as it has. jo challenged _ does not mean accepting everything as it has. jo challenged me - does not mean accepting everything as it has. jo challenged me on- does not mean accepting everything as it has. jo challenged me on what| as it has. jo challenged me on what would _ as it has. jo challenged me on what would we _ as it has. jo challenged me on what would we change, _ as it has. jo challenged me on what would we change, i— as it has. jo challenged me on what would we change, i have _ as it has. jo challenged me on what| would we change, i have mentioned as it has. jo challenged me on what. would we change, i have mentioned a few specifics — would we change, i have mentioned a few specifics. these _ would we change, i have mentioned a few specifics. these are _ would we change, i have mentioned a few specifics. these are things - would we change, i have mentioned a few specifics. these are things that i few specifics. these are things that could _ few specifics. these are things that could improve _ few specifics. these are things that could improve the _ few specifics. these are things that could improve the position, - few specifics. these are things that could improve the position, but. few specifics. these are things that could improve the position, but it l could improve the position, but it is a negotiation. _ could improve the position, but it is a negotiation. we _ could improve the position, but it is a negotiation. we will- could improve the position, but it is a negotiation. we will have - could improve the position, but it is a negotiation. we will have to i is a negotiation. we will have to sit around — is a negotiation. we will have to sit around the _ is a negotiation. we will have to sit around the table _ is a negotiation. we will have to sit around the table with - is a negotiation. we will have to| sit around the table with people. the difference _ sit around the table with people. the difference between - sit around the table with people. the difference between our- sit around the table with people. - the difference between our approach and the _ the difference between our approach and the approach _ the difference between our approach and the approach of _ the difference between our approach and the approach of the _ and the approach of the conservatives— and the approach of the conservatives is- and the approach of the conservatives is we - and the approach of the conservatives is we are | and the approach of the . conservatives is we are not and the approach of the - conservatives is we are not going and the approach of the _ conservatives is we are not going to start from _ conservatives is we are not going to start from the — conservatives is we are not going to start from the point _ conservatives is we are not going to start from the point of— conservatives is we are not going to start from the point of view- conservatives is we are not going to start from the point of view of- start from the point of view of blaming — start from the point of view of blaming the _ start from the point of view of blaming the eu _ start from the point of view of blaming the eu for— start from the point of view of| blaming the eu for everything. start from the point of view of- blaming the eu for everything. we start from — blaming the eu for everything. we start from point _ blaming the eu for everything. we start from point of— blaming the eu for everything. we start from point of view— blaming the eu for everything. we start from point of view of- blaming the eu for everything. we start from point of view of wanting an adult. _ start from point of view of wanting an adult, positive _ start from point of view of wanting an adult, positive relationship - start from point of view of wanting j an adult, positive relationship with her fellow— an adult, positive relationship with her fellow democracies. _ an adult, positive relationship with her fellow democracies. sun - an adult, positive relationship with her fellow democracies. sun if - an adult, positive relationship with her fellow democracies. sun if you| her fellow democracies. sun if you look at _ her fellow democracies. sun if you look at the — her fellow democracies. sun if you look at the relationship _ her fellow democracies. sun if you look at the relationship this - look at the relationship this premise _ look at the relationship this premise ministers- look at the relationship this premise ministers up- look at the relationship this premise ministers up with i look at the relationship this i premise ministers up with the look at the relationship this - premise ministers up with the eu, we are not— premise ministers up with the eu, we are not blaming— premise ministers up with the eu, we are not blaming everyone, _ premise ministers up with the eu, we are not blaming everyone, we - premise ministers up with the eu, we are not blaming everyone, we are - are not blaming everyone, we are working _ are not blaming everyone, we are working together. _ are not blaming everyone, we are working together. of— are not blaming everyone, we are working together.— are not blaming everyone, we are working together. of course we said there would — working together. of course we said there would be _ working together. of course we said there would be difficulties _ working together. of course we said there would be difficulties if - working together. of course we said there would be difficulties if we - there would be difficulties if we left the — there would be difficulties if we left the eu, that was pointed out at the time, _ left the eu, that was pointed out at the time, there would have been democratic states if we are not honoured — democratic states if we are not honoured what we said we would do, which _ honoured what we said we would do, which was _ honoured what we said we would do, which was to— honoured what we said we would do, which was to leave if the majority of people — which was to leave if the majority of people who voted asked us to leave _ of people who voted asked us to leave. democracy is incredibly important, it should be cherished, and we _ important, it should be cherished, and we should be concerned at unpicking — and we should be concerned at unpicking it. it is all well and

good — unpicking it. it is all well and good to— unpicking it. it is all well and good to see, we will need to negotiate part of it, but you have to work— negotiate part of it, but you have to work out — negotiate part of it, but you have to work out what you're willing to - ive to work out what you're willing to give up — to work out what you're willing to rive u. ., , , , to work out what you're willing to u-iveu. , , , ., to work out what you're willing to u-iveu. ,, , ., give up. nobody is trying to unpick it. nobod give up. nobody is trying to unpick it- nobody is _ give up. nobody is trying to unpick it. nobody is trying _ give up. nobody is trying to unpick it. nobody is trying to _ give up. nobody is trying to unpick it. nobody is trying to unpick- give up. nobody is trying to unpick it. nobody is trying to unpick it. i it. nobody is trying to unpick it. but that— it. nobody is trying to unpick it. but that does _ it. nobody is trying to unpick it. but that does not _ it. nobody is trying to unpick it. but that does not mean - it. nobody is trying to unpick it. l but that does not mean accepting it. nobody is trying to unpick it. - but that does not mean accepting the consequences — but that does not mean accepting the consequences of _ but that does not mean accepting the consequences of every _ but that does not mean accepting the consequences of every broken - but that does not mean accepting the i consequences of every broken promise that brexiteers— consequences of every broken promise that brexiteers make. _ consequences of every broken promise that brexiteers make. we'll— consequences of every broken promise that brexiteers make.— that brexiteers make. we'll talk a bit about the _ that brexiteers make. we'll talk a bit about the local _ that brexiteers make. we'll talk a bit about the local elections, i that brexiteers make. we'll talk a bit about the local elections, it i bit about the local elections, it was raised at prime minister's questions with all of redundant. you may remember in the early part of the programme we played jacob rees—mogg, former conservative cabinet minister, accusing his own party of gerrymandering, fixing voting rules to try to gain an advantage in elections with the introduction of voter id. let's have a listen. ., , introduction of voter id. let's have a listen. . , ., introduction of voter id. let's have alisten. . , ., , introduction of voter id. let's have a listen. . , ., , ., a listen. parties that try and gerrymander _ a listen. parties that try and gerrymander find _ a listen. parties that try and gerrymander find up - a listen. parties that try and gerrymander find up that i a listen. parties that try and l gerrymander find up that their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as dare i say we find by insisting on voter id for elections, and we found to not have id were elderly and they buy a large voted conservative. we made it hard for our own voters and we upset a system that worked perfectly well, was one

of the glories of our country, that we did on an honesty basis, when the real problem is with postal voting. do not get too fretful about random schemes brought up by the socialists because gerrymandering doesn't really work. se because gerrymandering doesn't really work-— because gerrymandering doesn't reall work. . , ., , really work. se rights, the voter id scheme was _ really work. se rights, the voter id scheme was brought _ really work. se rights, the voter id scheme was brought in, _ really work. se rights, the voter id scheme was brought in, policy i scheme was brought in, policy designed to give tories an advantage?— designed to give tories an advantaue? ., ., ., ., , designed to give tories an advantaue? ., ., ., ., advantage? not at all. it was to u date advantage? not at all. it was to update our _ advantage? not at all. it was to update our electoral— advantage? not at all. it was to update our electoral system i advantage? not at all. it was to update our electoral system in i advantage? not at all. it was to i update our electoral system in the same _ update our electoral system in the same way— update our electoral system in the same way most european countries have _ same way most european countries have in— same way most european countries have. in northern ireland, it was brought— have. in northern ireland, it was brought in— have. in northern ireland, it was brought in under labour, it has been the case _ brought in under labour, it has been the case since 2003. it was the electoral— the case since 2003. it was the electoral commission's recommendation in 2016 to do this. it is what _ recommendation in 2016 to do this. it is what we have done. in terms of older— it is what we have done. in terms of older people as has been pointed out, the — older people as has been pointed out, the bus pass suffices. i do not -et out, the bus pass suffices. i do not get that— out, the bus pass suffices. i do not get that argument at all. i think there _ get that argument at all. i think there is— get that argument at all. i think there is really important to come back— there is really important to come back to _ there is really important to come back to preserving democracy, to ensure _ back to preserving democracy, to ensure that there is no fraud, or at least _ ensure that there is no fraud, or at least you _ ensure that there is no fraud, or at least you reduce the chances of fraud — least you reduce the chances of fraud. that is what this does. he was in the _ fraud. that is what this does. he: was in the cabinet at the time the policy was discussed and brought in,

and he is saying it was an attempt to fix the vote in favour of the conservatives. he to fix the vote in favour of the conservatives.— conservatives. he will have to account for — conservatives. he will have to account for himself _ conservatives. he will have to account for himself in - conservatives. he will have to account for himself in terms i conservatives. he will have to | account for himself in terms of consistency. i am of the firm view that this — consistency. i am of the firm view that this is — consistency. i am of the firm view that this is the right thing to do. as i say. — that this is the right thing to do. as i say, the majority of the european _ as i say, the majority of the european countries have it, we have had it— european countries have it, we have had it in— european countries have it, we have had it in parts of the uk since 2003, — had it in parts of the uk since 2003, the _ had it in parts of the uk since 2003, the electoral commission asked for it _ 2003, the electoral commission asked for it what _ 2003, the electoral commission asked for it. what is not to like? keir starmer has — for it. what is not to like? keir starmer has also _ for it. what is not to like? keir starmer has also been - for it. what is not to like? iris: " starmer has also been talking about voting in elections. this is to do with considering whether eu nationals who have worked and lived in the uk for a number of years should be given the vote in general elections. , , ., ~ should be given the vote in general elections. , , .,~ ., elections. lets 'ust take someone who has been — elections. letsjust take someone who has been here _ elections. letsjust take someone who has been here for _ elections. letsjust take someone who has been here for 30 - elections. letsjust take someone who has been here for 30 years, i who has been here for 30 years, literally put down their roots, married to a brit, their kids are clear, this is the country, this is where they live, this is where they contribute. i think it is very hard to see, you should really be voting backin to see, you should really be voting back in your country of origin we have not been living for 30 years. that doesn't pass the common—sense test for me. is that doesn't pass the common-sense test for me—

test for me. is labour planning to make this a _ test for me. is labour planning to make this a policy? _ test for me. is labour planning to make this a policy? at _ test for me. is labour planning to make this a policy? at the - test for me. is labour planning to i make this a policy? at the moment, the situation — make this a policy? at the moment, the situation as _ make this a policy? at the moment, the situation as commonwealth i the situation as commonwealth citizens can _ the situation as commonwealth citizens can vote. _ the situation as commonwealth citizens can vote. eu _ the situation as commonwealth citizens can vote. eu nationalsl the situation as commonwealth i citizens can vote. eu nationals can vote in— citizens can vote. eu nationals can vote in local — citizens can vote. eu nationals can vote in local elections. _ citizens can vote. eu nationals can vote in local elections. there - citizens can vote. eu nationals can vote in local elections. there is i citizens can vote. eu nationals can vote in local elections. there is no proposal— vote in local elections. there is no proposal to — vote in local elections. there is no proposal to have _ vote in local elections. there is no proposal to have a _ vote in local elections. there is no proposal to have a blanket - vote in local elections. there is no proposal to have a blanket policyi proposal to have a blanket policy where _ proposal to have a blanket policy where someone _ proposal to have a blanket policy where someone just _ proposal to have a blanket policy where someone just arrived i proposal to have a blanket policy where someone just arrived in i proposal to have a blanket policyi where someone just arrived in the country— where someone just arrived in the country and — where someone just arrived in the country and start _ where someone just arrived in the country and start voting. - where someone just arrived in the country and start voting. the i country and start voting. the example _ country and start voting. the example that _ country and start voting. the example that keir— country and start voting. the example that keir starmer. country and start voting. the example that keir starmer is country and start voting. the - example that keir starmer is using as if someone _ example that keir starmer is using as if someone has _ example that keir starmer is using as if someone has lived _ example that keir starmer is using as if someone has lived here - example that keir starmer is using as if someone has lived here for. as if someone has lived here for years. _ as if someone has lived here for years. may— as if someone has lived here for years. may be _ as if someone has lived here for years, may be decades, - as if someone has lived here for years, may be decades, paid i as if someone has lived here for. years, may be decades, paid taxes for a _ years, may be decades, paid taxes for a long — years, may be decades, paid taxes for a long time, _ years, may be decades, paid taxes for a long time, are _ years, may be decades, paid taxes for a long time, are we _ years, may be decades, paid taxes for a long time, are we going - years, may be decades, paid taxes for a long time, are we going to i for a long time, are we going to forever— for a long time, are we going to forever deny— for a long time, are we going to forever deny them _ for a long time, are we going to forever deny them the - for a long time, are we going to forever deny them the right i for a long time, are we going to forever deny them the right to i for a long time, are we going to i forever deny them the right to vote? it is not _ forever deny them the right to vote? it is not a _ forever deny them the right to vote? it is not a firm — forever deny them the right to vote? it is not a firm policy. _ forever deny them the right to vote? it is not a firm policy.— it is not a firm policy. should it be? he is— it is not a firm policy. should it be? he is putting _ it is not a firm policy. should it be? he is putting something i it is not a firm policy. should it i be? he is putting something that should be considered, _ be? he is putting something that should be considered, and - be? he is putting something that should be considered, and i- be? he is putting something thatj should be considered, and i think be? he is putting something that l should be considered, and i think it will be _ should be considered, and i think it will be if— should be considered, and i think it will be if i — should be considered, and i think it will be if i may— should be considered, and i think it will be. if i may come _ should be considered, and i think it will be. if i may come on— should be considered, and i think it will be. if i may come on voter- should be considered, and i think it will be. if i may come on voter id, i will be. if i may come on voter id, i spent _ will be. if i may come on voter id, i spent a _ will be. if i may come on voter id, i spent a lot— will be. if i may come on voter id, i spent a lot of— will be. if i may come on voter id, i spent a lot of time _ will be. if i may come on voter id, i spent a lot of time on— will be. if i may come on voter id, | i spent a lot of time on doorsteps, as i'm _ i spent a lot of time on doorsteps, as i'm sure — ispent a lot of time on doorsteps, as i'm sure hugh— i spent a lot of time on doorsteps, as i'm sure hugh and _ i spent a lot of time on doorsteps, as i'm sure hugh and others - i spent a lot of time on doorsteps, as i'm sure hugh and others did i i spent a lot of time on doorsteps, as i'm sure hugh and others did in| as i'm sure hugh and others did in the run-up— as i'm sure hugh and others did in the run-up to— as i'm sure hugh and others did in the run—up to the _ as i'm sure hugh and others did in the run—up to the recent- as i'm sure hugh and others did in the run—up to the recent local- the run—up to the recent local elections. _ the run—up to the recent local elections, there _ the run—up to the recent local elections, there were - the run—up to the recent local. elections, there were problems the run—up to the recent local- elections, there were problems with the system — elections, there were problems with the system. people _ elections, there were problems with the system. people were _ elections, there were problems with the system. people were confused l elections, there were problems withi the system. people were confused by it. a the system. people were confused by it a number— the system. people were confused by it a number of— the system. people were confused by it. a number of people _ the system. people were confused by it. a number of people said _ the system. people were confused by it. a number of people said they- it. a number of people said they weren't— it. a number of people said they weren't going _ it. a number of people said they weren't going to _ it. a number of people said they weren't going to vote _ it. a number of people said they weren't going to vote at - it. a number of people said they weren't going to vote at all. i it. a number of people said they weren't going to vote at all. wel weren't going to vote at all. we will never— weren't going to vote at all. we will never know— weren't going to vote at all. we will never know about - weren't going to vote at all. we will never know about those i weren't going to vote at all. we i will never know about those because they didn't _ will never know about those because they didn't go — will never know about those because they didn't go. what _ will never know about those because they didn't go. what i— will never know about those because they didn't go. what i want- will never know about those because they didn't go. what i want to - will never know about those because they didn't go. what i want to see i they didn't go. what i want to see as proper— they didn't go. what i want to see as proper evidence _ they didn't go. what i want to see as proper evidence on _ they didn't go. what i want to see as proper evidence on the - they didn't go. what i want to see as proper evidence on the impactl they didn't go. what i want to see l as proper evidence on the impact of

this. �* . as proper evidence on the impact of this. �* , ., ., , this. and there will be, no doubt, b the this. and there will be, no doubt, by the electoral— this. and there will be, no doubt, by the electoral commission - this. and there will be, no doubt, by the electoral commission and l by the electoral commission and others. let's stick on this idea of giving eu nationals who are living and working here. let's find out a little bit more of the detail of what the current arrangements are with lauren from the bbc�*s political research unit. lauren, what is the situation? it research unit. lauren, what is the situation? . . , situation? it is slightly complicated. - situation? it is slightlyl complicated. currently, situation? it is slightly - complicated. currently, eu situation? it is slightly _ complicated. currently, eu citizens cannot vote in uk general elections, there are a few exceptions. eu countries who are any commonwealth, cyprus, malta, and irish nationals, they can vote in general elections. but when you get to the local level and the devolved level, things get slightly more complex. in scotland and wales, both in local elections and wales, both in local elections and parliamentary elections, anyone with legal residency is able to vote. in england and northern ireland, currently eu citizens to have the vote in local elections. that is going to change slightly because the government introduced a piece of legislation last year, the elections act. this has not come

into effectjust elections act. this has not come into effect just yet, elections act. this has not come into effectjust yet, but it is expected to at the end of this year. what that was it is that if you arrived in the uk from europe before the 31st of december 2020, just before we left the uk, eu, you will retain your right to vote. however, if you arrived after that date, your right to vote will be subject to the uk having an equivalent deal with your home eu nation. if a uk citizen can vote in your country, you will be able to vote here. the uk does have a couple of agreements already with spain, portugal, luxembourg and also poland. some questions for your panel, to your labour guess, i would say, whyjust eu citizens? if your argument is that people who have been paying taxes for multiple decades should get the vote, should that not extend to all nationalities? to your conservative guess, i would say, is not some kind of argument that if you have been paying taxes here for three decades and you have made a life in britain that you should maybe get a say in

who governs you?— who governs you? thank you very much. who governs you? thank you very much- pat? _ who governs you? thank you very much- pat? i _ who governs you? thank you very much. pat? ithink— who governs you? thank you very much. pat? i think the _ who governs you? thank you very much. pat? i think the answer - who governs you? thank you very much. pat? i think the answer to | who governs you? thank you very i much. pat? i think the answer to the cuestion much. pat? i think the answer to the question lauren _ much. pat? i think the answer to the question lauren poses _ much. pat? i think the answer to the question lauren poses as _ much. pat? i think the answer to the question lauren poses as revealed . much. pat? i think the answer to thej question lauren poses as revealed in her summary— question lauren poses as revealed in her summary where _ question lauren poses as revealed in her summary where she _ question lauren poses as revealed in her summary where she said, - her summary where she said, commonwealth _ her summary where she said, commonwealth citizens- her summary where she said, i commonwealth citizens already her summary where she said, - commonwealth citizens already do havem _ commonwealth citizens already do have... ~ , ., ., . have... why not extend to all migrants _ have... why not extend to all migrants who _ have... why not extend to all migrants who are _ have... why not extend to all migrants who are living - have... why not extend to all migrants who are living and l have... why not extend to all - migrants who are living and working here? macro there is not a fan proposal at the moment. what is the basis for only looking at eu nationals? i basis for only looking at eu nationals?— basis for only looking at eu nationals? , , . , , nationals? i guess that is the big disari nationals? i guess that is the big disnarity at _ nationals? i guess that is the big disnarity at the _ nationals? i guess that is the big disparity at the moment - nationals? i guess that is the big disparity at the moment where i nationals? i guess that is the big l disparity at the moment where you have got— disparity at the moment where you have got the — disparity at the moment where you have got the situation _ disparity at the moment where you have got the situation with - have got the situation with commonwealth _ have got the situation with commonwealth citizens, . have got the situation with i commonwealth citizens, but have got the situation with - commonwealth citizens, but not have got the situation with _ commonwealth citizens, but not with eu citizens. — commonwealth citizens, but not with eu citizens. many— commonwealth citizens, but not with eu citizens, many of _ commonwealth citizens, but not with eu citizens, many of them _ commonwealth citizens, but not with eu citizens, many of them have - commonwealth citizens, but not with eu citizens, many of them have been here for a _ eu citizens, many of them have been here for a long — eu citizens, many of them have been here for a long time. _ eu citizens, many of them have been here for a long time. but— eu citizens, many of them have been here for a long time.— here for a long time. but there may be other grouns _ here for a long time. but there may be other groups of _ here for a long time. but there may be other groups of people - here for a long time. but there may be other groups of people who - here for a long time. but there mayj be other groups of people who have been here for a very long time. the links with the commonwealth, that is clear, white especially france and germany, for example, not countries outside of the eu? irate germany, for example, not countries outside of the eu?— germany, for example, not countries outside of the eu? we have not got a firm preposal— outside of the eu? we have not got a firm preposal yet. — outside of the eu? we have not got a firm proposalyet, so _ outside of the eu? we have not got a firm proposal yet, so this _ outside of the eu? we have not got a firm proposal yet, so this is - firm proposal yet, so this is something _ firm proposal yet, so this is something that _ firm proposal yet, so this is something that keir- firm proposal yet, so this isi something that keir starmer firm proposal yet, so this is i something that keir starmer is racing — something that keir starmer is racing because _ something that keir starmer is racing because of— something that keir starmer is racing because of this - something that keir starmer is| racing because of this longevity something that keir starmer is i racing because of this longevity of people _ racing because of this longevity of peortie staying _ racing because of this longevity of peortie staying who _ racing because of this longevity of people staying who may _ racing because of this longevity of people staying who may not - racing because of this longevity of people staying who may not be i people staying who may not be citizens. — people staying who may not be citizens. but— people staying who may not be citizens, but may— people staying who may not be citizens, but may be _ people staying who may not be citizens, but may be residentsi citizens, but may be residents paying — citizens, but may be residents paying tax— citizens, but may be residents paying tax and _ citizens, but may be residents paying tax and really- citizens, but may be residents paying tax and really settled l citizens, but may be residents| paying tax and really settled in citizens, but may be residents- paying tax and really settled in the uk. , ., ., . .,

paying tax and really settled in the uk. ., . ., uk. there is a logic to it, if you have been _ uk. there is a logic to it, if you have been here _ uk. there is a logic to it, if you have been here for _ uk. there is a logic to it, if you have been here for 20 - uk. there is a logic to it, if you have been here for 20 or- uk. there is a logic to it, if you have been here for 20 or 30 . uk. there is a logic to it, if you - have been here for 20 or 30 years, you might have had a family here, working here, why not give them to the vote? it working here, why not give them to the vote? . working here, why not give them to the vote? , , , . the vote? it is telling this is all about the _ the vote? it is telling this is all about the eu. _ the vote? it is telling this is all about the eu. the _ the vote? it is telling this is all about the eu. the your - the vote? it is telling this is all about the eu. the your from i the vote? it is telling this is all - about the eu. the your from labour that they— about the eu. the your from labour that they accept we have left the eu, but — that they accept we have left the eu, but the only people to get the vote are _ eu, but the only people to get the vote are from the eu. i think i would — vote are from the eu. i think i would be _ vote are from the eu. i think i would be discriminatory. not only have _ would be discriminatory. not only have you — would be discriminatory. not only have you got 4 million people from the eu _ have you got 4 million people from the eu who could potentially vote, surety _ the eu who could potentially vote, surely that would have to be opened up surely that would have to be opened up to any— surely that would have to be opened up to any foreign national. i do not understand — up to any foreign national. i do not understand how that would pass musten — understand how that would pass muster. to pin it to taxation, for the sorceress to say no representation without taxation is slightly _ representation without taxation is slightly ironic. when push comes to shove _ slightly ironic. when push comes to shove with — slightly ironic. when push comes to shove with this, it just would not work, _ shove with this, it just would not work. we — shove with this, it just would not work, we do not have reciprocal rights — work, we do not have reciprocal rights. there are a couple of instances _ rights. there are a couple of instances. our uk citizens cannot vote abroad, so why would you open it up? _ vote abroad, so why would you open it up? it— vote abroad, so why would you open it up? it appears to me it is not because — it up? it appears to me it is not because the people may be more likely— because the people may be more likely to — because the people may be more likely to vote labour. i do worry the message that sends out to the purity— the message that sends out to the purity of— the message that sends out to the purity of our democracy. | the message that sends out to the purity of our democracy.— purity of our democracy. i have no idea how they _ purity of our democracy. i have no idea how they would _ purity of our democracy. i have no idea how they would vote. - purity of our democracy. i have no idea how they would vote. it - purity of our democracy. i have no idea how they would vote. it is - purity of our democracy. i have no idea how they would vote. it is up| idea how they would vote. it is up to every— idea how they would vote. it is up to every individual— idea how they would vote. it is up to every individual how _ idea how they would vote. it is up to every individual how they- idea how they would vote. it is up to every individual how they vote. it to every individual how they vote.

it has _ to every individual how they vote. it has nothing _ to every individual how they vote. it has nothing to— to every individual how they vote. it has nothing to do— to every individual how they vote. it has nothing to do with - to every individual how they vote. it has nothing to do with party- it has nothing to do with party preference _ it has nothing to do with party preference. why— it has nothing to do with party preference. why would - it has nothing to do with party preference. why would you i it has nothing to do with party- preference. why would you assume that someone — preference. why would you assume that someone from _ preference. why would you assume that someone from a _ preference. why would you assume that someone from a particular- that someone from a particular property~ _ that someone from a particular property... country— that someone from a particular property... country will - that someone from a particular property... country will vote i property... country will vote labour? _ property... country will vote labour? ., ., , labour? you can do it in scottish parliament _ labour? you can do it in scottish parliament elections _ labour? you can do it in scottish parliament elections and - labour? you can do it in scottish parliament elections and labour| labour? you can do it in scottish - parliament elections and labour come third. . . . ~ , parliament elections and labour come third. . .~ ~ parliament elections and labour come third. . . .~ , ~ , third. what makes you think they would be minded _ third. what makes you think they would be minded to _ third. what makes you think they would be minded to vote - third. what makes you think they would be minded to vote for- third. what makes you think they would be minded to vote for the l would be minded to vote for the labour party and the way that jacob rees—mogg is seems to have discovered, did not favour and serve the voter voters with voter id. lstallion the voter voters with voter id. when ou look the voter voters with voter id. when you look at — the voter voters with voter id. when you look at through _ the voter voters with voter id. when you look at through the _ the voter voters with voter id. when you look at through the lens - the voter voters with voter id. when you look at through the lens of, - the voter voters with voter id. when you look at through the lens of, eu voters _ you look at through the lens of, eu voters here, — you look at through the lens of, eu voters here, did they want us to leave _ voters here, did they want us to leave the — voters here, did they want us to leave the union? labour is seen as a pro-eu _ leave the union? labour is seen as a pro-eu party— leave the union? labour is seen as a pro—eu party in that regard. that is what _ pro—eu party in that regard. that is what i _ pro—eu party in that regard. that is what i come — pro—eu party in that regard. that is what i come back to. why are you 'ust what i come back to. why are you just having — what i come back to. why are you just having this for eu countries, why not— just having this for eu countries, why not swiss individuals over here paying _ why not swiss individuals over here paying tax — why not swiss individuals over here paying tax for 30 years? let�*s why not swiss individuals over here paying tax for 30 years?— paying tax for 30 years? let's talk about housing. _ paying tax for 30 years? let's talk about housing. we _ paying tax for 30 years? let's talk about housing. we talked - paying tax for 30 years? let's talk about housing. we talked about . paying tax for 30 years? let's talk about housing. we talked about it| paying tax for 30 years? let's talk l about housing. we talked about it in the first part of the programme, but it is worth looking at again because it is worth looking at again because it is worth looking at again because it is becoming a very big political issue. particularly since keir starmer, labour leader, said he would consider allowing councils to

build on the green belt. brute build on the green belt. we discussed _ build on the green belt. we discussed is _ build on the green belt. we discussed is the last time i was in. i discussed is the last time i was in. i am _ discussed is the last time i was in. lam repeating _ discussed is the last time i was in. i am repeating myself. _ discussed is the last time i was in. iam repeating myself. i— discussed is the last time i was in. i am repeating myself. i don't- discussed is the last time i was in. l i am repeating myself. i don't think your starmer had said at that point that he would look at allowing councils to build on the green belt. it was a really important debate that we — it was a really important debate that we had _ it was a really important debate that we had in— it was a really important debate that we had in the _ it was a really important debate that we had in the country- it was a really important debate | that we had in the country about building — that we had in the country about building more _ that we had in the country about building more housing, - that we had in the country about building more housing, and - that we had in the country about. building more housing, and indeed making _ building more housing, and indeed making it _ building more housing, and indeed making it easier— building more housing, and indeed making it easier to— building more housing, and indeed making it easier to build _ building more housing, and indeed making it easier to build more - making it easier to build more generally _ making it easier to build more generally. non—housing- making it easier to build more generally. non—housing as - making it easier to build more . generally. non—housing as well, infrastructure _ generally. non—housing as well, infrastructure and _ generally. non—housing as well, infrastructure and so _ generally. non—housing as well, infrastructure and so on. - generally. non—housing as well, infrastructure and so on. we - generally. non—housing as well, i infrastructure and so on. we have -ot infrastructure and so on. we have got a _ infrastructure and so on. we have got a housing _ infrastructure and so on. we have got a housing problem _ infrastructure and so on. we have got a housing problem that - infrastructure and so on. we have got a housing problem that is - got a housing problem that is obvious, _ got a housing problem that is obvious, but— got a housing problem that is obvious, but we _ got a housing problem that is obvious, but we have - got a housing problem that is obvious, but we have also - got a housing problem that is| obvious, but we have also got got a housing problem that is . obvious, but we have also got an investment— obvious, but we have also got an investment problem _ obvious, but we have also got an investment problem where - obvious, but we have also got an. investment problem where people obvious, but we have also got an - investment problem where people tell us it takes— investment problem where people tell us it takes far— investment problem where people tell us it takes far too _ investment problem where people tell us it takes far too long _ investment problem where people tell us it takes far too long to _ investment problem where people tell us it takes far too long to build - us it takes far too long to build things — us it takes far too long to build things how— us it takes far too long to build things. how are _ us it takes far too long to build things. how are we _ us it takes far too long to build things. how are we going - us it takes far too long to build things. how are we going to. us it takes far too long to build j things. how are we going to do us it takes far too long to build - things. how are we going to do this? what _ things. how are we going to do this? what is _ things. how are we going to do this? what is the _ things. how are we going to do this? what is the right— things. how are we going to do this? what is the right balance _ things. how are we going to do this? what is the right balance between i what is the right balance between local interest _ what is the right balance between local interest and _ what is the right balance between local interest and national - what is the right balance betweenl local interest and national targets? i local interest and national targets? i know— local interest and national targets? i know you — local interest and national targets? i know you always _ local interest and national targets? i know you always have _ local interest and national targets? i know you always have fun - local interest and national targets? | i know you always have fun because you find _ i know you always have fun because you find individual— i know you always have fun because you find individual mps _ i know you always have fun because you find individual mps who - i know you always have fun because you find individual mps who oppose | you find individual mps who oppose individual— you find individual mps who oppose individual developments _ you find individual mps who oppose individual developments and - you find individual mps who oppose individual developments and so - you find individual mps who oppose individual developments and so on, you can _ individual developments and so on, you can always— individual developments and so on, you can always do— individual developments and so on, you can always do that, _ individual developments and so on, you can always do that, there - individual developments and so on, you can always do that, there will. you can always do that, there will always _ you can always do that, there will always be — you can always do that, there will always be cases, _ you can always do that, there will always be cases, but _ you can always do that, there will always be cases, but i _ you can always do that, there will always be cases, but i do - you can always do that, there will always be cases, but i do think. always be cases, but i do think having — always be cases, but i do think having a — always be cases, but i do think having a proper— always be cases, but i do think having a proper national- always be cases, but i do think having a proper national target always be cases, but i do think. having a proper national target to increase — having a proper national target to increase the — having a proper national target to increase the rate _ having a proper national target to increase the rate of _ having a proper national target to i increase the rate of house—building is the _ increase the rate of house—building is the right— increase the rate of house—building is the right thing _ increase the rate of house—building is the right thing to _ increase the rate of house—building

is the right thing to do. _ increase the rate of house—building is the right thing to do. we - increase the rate of house-building is the right thing to do.— is the right thing to do. we do sometimes — is the right thing to do. we do sometimes find _ is the right thing to do. we do sometimes find those - is the right thing to do. we do | sometimes find those planning applications. the reason we talk about housing is because the politicians are talking about it a lot. in 2021, the labour party at a different view, so maybe he has changed his mind. this tweet, the conservative developer started would sell up and sell out our communities, local people, not tory party donor should decide what is best for where they live. whose side are you on? the people who own these nice houses in this bucolic scene set your bind that slogan, do you want developers building on your green spaces without your say? boris johnson does, and so does keir starmer. ~ . , . starmer. what he said is that local inut is starmer. what he said is that local input is still _ starmer. what he said is that local input is still really _ starmer. what he said is that local input is still really important. - starmer. what he said is that local input is still really important. we l input is still really important. we seem _ input is still really important. we seem to — input is still really important. we seem to have _ input is still really important. we seem to have this _ input is still really important. we seem to have this black- input is still really important. we seem to have this black and - input is still really important. wei seem to have this black and white view that— seem to have this black and white view that if— seem to have this black and white view that if you _ seem to have this black and white view that if you have _ seem to have this black and white view that if you have a _ seem to have this black and white view that if you have a proper- view that if you have a proper national— view that if you have a proper national housing _ view that if you have a proper national housing target, - view that if you have a proper national housing target, you i view that if you have a proper. national housing target, you are going _ national housing target, you are going to — national housing target, you are going to ignore _ national housing target, you are going to ignore every— national housing target, you are going to ignore every local- national housing target, you are i going to ignore every local opinion. that is— going to ignore every local opinion. that is not— going to ignore every local opinion. that is not the _ going to ignore every local opinion. that is not the way— going to ignore every local opinion. that is not the way it _ going to ignore every local opinion. that is not the way it should - going to ignore every local opinion. that is not the way it should be. i. that is not the way it should be. i don't _ that is not the way it should be. i don't know— that is not the way it should be. i don't know how _ that is not the way it should be. i don't know how well _ that is not the way it should be. i don't know how well you - that is not the way it should be. i don't know how well you know . don't know how well you know wolverhampton, _ don't know how well you know wolverhampton, if _ don't know how well you know wolverhampton, if you - don't know how well you know wolverhampton, if you come i don't know how well you know. wolverhampton, if you come to wolverhampton, _ wolverhampton, if you come to wolverhampton, we _ wolverhampton, if you come to wolverhampton, we have - wolverhampton, if you come to wolverhampton, we have got. wolverhampton, if you come to - wolverhampton, we have got many derelict _ wolverhampton, we have got many derelict factories, _ wolverhampton, we have got many derelict factories, a _ wolverhampton, we have got many derelict factories, a legacy - wolverhampton, we have got many derelict factories, a legacy from - derelict factories, a legacy from deindustrialisation_ derelict factories, a legacy from deindustrialisation in— derelict factories, a legacy from deindustrialisation in the - derelict factories, a legacy from deindustrialisation in the 70s, l derelict factories, a legacy from i deindustrialisation in the 70s, they should _

deindustrialisation in the 70s, they should be — deindustrialisation in the 70s, they should be the — deindustrialisation in the 70s, they should be the first _ deindustrialisation in the 70s, they should be the first target. - deindustrialisation in the 70s, they should be the first target. there i deindustrialisation in the 70s, they should be the first target. there is| should be the first target. there is space _ should be the first target. there is space there — should be the first target. there is space there to _ should be the first target. there is space there to build _ should be the first target. there is space there to build housing, - should be the first target. there is space there to build housing, that| space there to build housing, that is what _ space there to build housing, that is what we — space there to build housing, that is what we should _ space there to build housing, that is what we should do _ space there to build housing, that is what we should do it. _ space there to build housing, that is what we should do it. ifilthy- space there to build housing, that is what we should do it.— space there to build housing, that is what we should do it. why not the ureen is what we should do it. why not the green belt? — is what we should do it. why not the green belt? maybe _ is what we should do it. why not the green belt? maybe it— is what we should do it. why not the green belt? maybe it is— is what we should do it. why not the green belt? maybe it is time, - is what we should do it. why not the green belt? maybe it is time, there | green belt? maybe it is time, there is a desperate housing shortage. brute is a desperate housing shortage. we have built 2.2 million new homes since _ have built 2.2 million new homes since 2010 — have built 2.2 million new homes since 2010-— have built 2.2 million new homes since 2010. �* ' _, ., . since 2010. awful compared to what was needed — since 2010. awful compared to what was needed and _ since 2010. awful compared to what was needed and demanded - since 2010. awful compared to what was needed and demanded in - since 2010. awful compared to what was needed and demanded in terms since 2010. awful compared to what i was needed and demanded in terms of affordable housing and social housing. flat affordable housing and social housina. . . affordable housing and social housin.. . . . . housing. pat talks about what could be done in urban _ housing. pat talks about what could be done in urban centres, _ housing. pat talks about what could be done in urban centres, but - housing. pat talks about what could be done in urban centres, but you l be done in urban centres, but you -ot be done in urban centres, but you got a _ be done in urban centres, but you got a labour— be done in urban centres, but you got a labour mayor in london that has built— got a labour mayor in london that has built a — got a labour mayor in london that has built a lot fewer homes than the last conservative may. we have built those _ last conservative may. we have built those homes, but we have built them in the urban— those homes, but we have built them in the urban parts. it is all well and good — in the urban parts. it is all well and good when you in opposition to say, the _ and good when you in opposition to say, the conservative should not do this, but— say, the conservative should not do this, but at— say, the conservative should not do this, but at the same time you put an advert — this, but at the same time you put an advert out to attract the other side of— an advert out to attract the other side of the — an advert out to attract the other side of the argument. we have had to -et side of the argument. we have had to get on _ side of the argument. we have had to get on and _ side of the argument. we have had to get on and do it, and i believe we have _ get on and do it, and i believe we have ls— get on and do it, and i believe we have. . . get on and do it, and i believe we have. , , ., .,, have. is this going to be the definin: have. is this going to be the defining issue? _ have. is this going to be the defining issue? it _ have. is this going to be the defining issue? it will- have. is this going to be the defining issue? it will be - have. is this going to be the | defining issue? it will be one have. is this going to be the . defining issue? it will be one of them. it defining issue? it will be one of them- it is _ defining issue? it will be one of them. it is certainly _ defining issue? it will be one of them. it is certainly a _ defining issue? it will be one of them. it is certainly a big - them. it is certainly a big flashpoint within the conservative party and within westminster politics. it is a question of do you cater for the people who own

property already authority once you are trying to get into it? that property already authority once you are trying to get into it?— are trying to get into it? that is all we have _ are trying to get into it? that is all we have time _ are trying to get into it? that is all we have time for. _ are trying to get into it? that is all we have time for. goodbye. |

of major reforms to private renting, in england. the government says the reforms will benefit 11 million people. no—fault evictions go. one of the reasons why that is important is these evictions have been used or these evictions have been used or the threat of them have been used by rogue landlords to intimidate tenants. labour says the government has allowed the private rental sector, to resemble the wild west, where anything goes. also on the programme... what progress, on borisjohnson's pledge to build a0 new hospitals in england by 2030? we find out, not much. are we about to break the dangerous 1.5 degree celsius global warming threshold, in just the next five years?