welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. acting is the most precarious of professions. adulation today can be followed by rejection tomorrow. the only certainty is uncertainty. it says much then of the talent and resilience of my guest today, jane horrocks, that her acting career has spanned four decades and has

seen her excel on stage and screen from comedies to musicals. increasingly, she's written and created her own shows. is that the pathway to empowerment in an industry where actors can be just another commodity? jane horrocks, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. it is great to have you in the studio. you have been in this acting business for almost four decades. i wonder when you think about your own career, do you feel that you very

consciously shaped it or is it more a question of serendipity and stuff thatjust happened? i think there is a lot of both actually, yes. i think i did engineer quite a lot of it in that my choices were very specific but certain things happened at a certain time that kind of formed it as well. and when you think about the big choices, the key choices, that you made that were instrumental in shaping your career, what would you point to? i think probably the biggest choice that i made was leaving the rsc. the royal shakespeare company? yes, which was my firstjob and they offered me another season and i thought, actually, i don't think i'm going to progress in this company in the same way i could possibly progress outside of it. that's very interesting because for most young actors, and you had been to rada, the very famous drama school,

and then you'd gotten into the rsc, which most young actors would just regard as the best, biggest break, you sort of walked away from shakespeare. yeah, i just think at that time, being from a kind of working—class background, ijust didn't think, and the way i spoke, and the way i was, that i was theirfodder at that time, so i'd be working my way up in a very incremental sort of way rather than landing a fabulous part very early on. so i kind of thought, actually, it's not going to serve me right here, right now. that is interesting because we have had other actors on this show who have talked about the degree to which they felt and sometimes still feel that they felt acting is dominantly a middle and upper middle—class preserve and that working—class people

who want to be actors, sometimes for example are told that their voice doesn't quite fit and they have to change it. that happened to you? they did encourage me to mellow my accent at rada, as you can hear i didn't take any notice of that and it has actually been my fortune, is my voice, it has been so much more beneficial than if i had lost it but i think that, i don't know, because i made that choice early on with the royal shakespeare company, because at that stage, i don't know anything about the royal shakespeare company now and i'm sure it's very, very different but when i was there, people who landed the big roles, very much had rp voices, but it could well be so different now. i've not really experienced so much of that throughout the rest of my career because the choices that i've made and the directors

that i have worked with. one of your early breakthroughs was working with mike lee, a director that we have actually spoken to on this programme. mike lee is known for his gritty, spontaneous, naturalistic movies. you were in life is sweet when actually you are still very young, weren't you? yes, i think was about 27 or something like that. would you say that that was quite a formative experience in the way he worked and what he expected of you? yeah, the tools that he gives you and the method that he uses, i still use a lot of those things now and just creating a character and the basis of a character, it was just a brilliant masterclass for me in how to work. so i'm hugely grateful to mike that he did ask me to do that

film, because it was a really wonderful experience and one that a lot of actors would love to have, to create a character from scratch with his guidance, it was just wonderful. and the other hugely influential person in your life around the same time wasjim cartwright, the writer who came up with a play, the rise and fall of littlevoice, which i think i'm right in saying was pretty much written with you in mind to take the lead? that's right, because i did his first play, road, at the royal court and we became friends thereafter, and he discovered in my back garden that i could do impersonations. you mean, singing impersonations? yeah, singing impersonations, and he said i will write a play about that and i didn't think any more of it and two years later, he said here is the play.

so, who could you do? all the people that i did in the film of littlevoice. i did edith piaf in the play but that was kind of the only difference. i could dojulie andrews, barbra streisand, but they weren't included in the piece. ijust wonder how much whenjim was writing this, he fed into you, your personality at the time. the story is of this girl who was brought up in scarborough, yorkshire, somewhere in the north of england. it was set in scarborough, so yes. and she is kind of damaged, she's had a very difficult upbringing, difficult relationship with her mother, she's lost her father, she is almost reclusive, spends most her time in her bedroom but she has this gift, this incredible talent for singing and for mimicking some of the great singing

stars, and there is a sort of vulnerability and a shyness to her as well as a gift. do you think there was a vulnerability and shyness to you at the time? i think has certainly had that when i was growing up and i would hide behind my impersonations and they were a way of coping at school, they kind of, i went to quite a tough school and they were, being a clown and doing impersonations were my survival techniques. so they were helpful and yeah, i was relatively shy. you wouldn't think so now but i was shy. you wouldn't think of someone who was relatively shy, they would have an impulse to perform and go on the stage and be so exposed, somehow you combined the both. i think with a lot of actors, it's a lack of comfort in oneself which is why we become actors in that we are not sure about who we are as people and therefore it is so much easier hiding behind somebody else�*s persona. that was definitely the case for me.

it actually prompts me to say let's take a look at a scene from the movie, it'sjust called little voice, the movie, it came out a few years after the smash hit west end play but they wanted you again to play the lead, so we're going to look at a clip, which is the first time you are persuaded by this agent who works with you, persuaded finally, despite your shyness and your reserve, to actually go onto a stage and show what you can do, so let's take a look. # the minute you walked in the joint # i could see you were a man of distinction # a real big spender # good looking, so refined

# say, wouldn't you like to know what's going on in my mind? # so let me get right to the point # i don't pop my cork for every man i see # hey big spender # hey, big spender # hey big spender # spend...a little time with me!# wow! i think you out—shirley bassied shirley bassey there. it is a fantastic performance and people spotted some very familiarfaces including michael caine. you have described that is pretty much the perfect part for you. it's a bit of a cliche

but do you think it's sort of changed your life in a way? erm, i don't know whether it did or not. it kind of — i'd done quite a number of things before that but maybe doing the play did sort of semi—change my life in that other things were happening that time and because of the play of little voice i was offered other things, people became much more aware of the after that film but whether it changed my life, i don't know. it made you much more famous, for a start and then it led to other things, for example, you got involved with one of the most successful situation comedies in the uk, around the same time and that went on for years, it was absolutely fabulous, in which you had a very funny part. it was you as a complete airhead, a very silly girl, called bubble but again that made you a very familiar face and ijust wonder whether you were comfortable with coming a nationalfigure?

yes, and it did all happen the same time. they were at a similar time, little voice the play, and ab fab the tv series. so i think when you do a tv series that has got such attention, that is when you get your recognition, really. so, i think i probably get more recognition from ab fab than i do from little voice. which is strange in a way because it's a much richer, deeper performance and whole sort of atmosphere to little voice. what do you mean? bubble was deep! she laughs she was hilarious, whether she was deep is a question. is it that you don't mind that you live with because it's natural that television does sort of dominate. when people identify you as oh, i know that face, i know

who she is, it's often on the telly rather than the theatre. yes, and it is often my voice. sometimes i can get away with not being recognised but as soon as i open my mouth they go, "oh, i know who you are." but, yes, telly is a much more immediate, isn't it? i wonder about absolutely fabulous, do you think it could... it is based on women behaving badly. drink is taken and sometimes drugs are taken as well. sometimes these are women with very politically correct lives and views. these days there is such a focus on not offending, on content that ticks various boxes. do you think that kind of show would get made? i think it would be much more of a struggle. jennifer saunders was very much left to her own devices at the time and often came up with things last minute so there was not the interference that there is now in making

a piece of television. in that the producers were not on her back all the time. she was able to get on with it. as far as kind politically correct things, for some things she was restrained. doesn't worry you, sad you? doesn't worry you, sadden you? i don't think they were, because it was done with such humour and because she had her daughter saffy character, who was so brilliantly played byjulia sawalha, who was politically correct. she was the sensible one? she was the sensible one. the character of edina, whichjennifer played, was was being checked in by her daughter so there was always a balance there. so if it was done today and she was politically incorrect as the character edina, she was always pulled up for it by the

character of saffy. i think it came at a brilliant time in that we had men behaving badly and then jennifer did her women be behaving badly and it was women, women absolutely loved it, men loved it as well, but particularly women because it represented them in that light as well. actually women can be a bit naughty too! thinking about changing cultural times because that was a huge hit in the �*90s and reprised with a movie and everything else, going back to the 90s, and the intervening 30 or so years, a lot has changed and one thing that has changed is everything that goes with the consciousness of the metoo movement and an awareness of abusive behaviour, of misogyny and deep sexism in the entertainment business. obviously as a woman who has been in the business throughout that, do you feel it has changed a great deal? it has definitely benefited it, and it was a big movement, metoo and it felt like

too much at the time, but it was absolutely right that it was too much. and sort of people were speaking up, and... i wonder whether you were at the time, 2017, there was a seminal moment on twitter when the american actress alyssa milano posted this, "if all the women in this industry who have been sexually harassed or assaulted wrote me to as their status, then too as their status, then we might give people a sense of the magnitude of this problem." were you actively thinking i'm me too, i can say metoo. definitely, definitely. we were, our generation of actors were just brought up that we just swallowed it, we just thought this is part of the business, you just have to put up with it. i'm not talking extreme cases of sexual harassment or i'm not talking rape, but kind of,

remarks, you just, or light petting, you thought, well, this is just standard and we have to live with it. that's why i'm saying when the metoo movement did happen, it seemed a little extreme for possibly people of my generation of actors because we had put up with it for so long. but then thinking about it, gosh, this is really relevant, it is such a brilliant thing that has happened, and has made life so much easierfor people, in that conditions have changed in theatres, in that you have somebody you can speak to if anything like that happens. it's not covered up, you can speak openly about things, and that has made a huge difference. but, in terms of basic questions of inequality and maybe even residual

misogyny in the acting profession, there are still big questions about, for example, the roles that are available to women, as they age. and i know you have engaged with that, you signed a joint letter not that long ago, of 100 leading women in the entertainment business saying there should be much more gender equality when it comes to the roles written for performers. do you think things have changed? i think they are changing slowly and i do think it feels like it's coming more into our time that women, there are more, i mean happy valley. very popular detective series, written by a woman. and i think that's changed things massively. sally wainwright's writing is so pro women and there has been fleabag, i may destroy you written by women and performed

by women, very strong pieces as well. but this pledge you signed up to, i don't know if you feel today, "today's in demand young actress is tomorrow's unemployed middle—aged actress." is it as causative is that, is it as inevitable is that? i mean, you've still got plenty of work? i do, but i have created a lot of my own work. and the parts i have been offered i have, a lot of parts i have been offered which i have turned down, i have not been that interested in. you might get a generic woman role, a mother, or not that mothers can't be interesting, but not very interesting mother that is just

kind of in the periphery. and, that is still definitely the case. is that one key reason you say, i have taken to writing and i've done a lot of my own work, generating stuff you can then perform for yourself? it is a form of proactive creation of roles that maybe women should feel confident enough to do in ways perhaps some don't at the moment? yes, it was as relevant when i was at the rsc all those years ago, the royal shakespeare company, i remember a meeting withjuliet stevenson, lindsay duncan, fiona shore, speaking out about the lack of roles for women, and because they, i, were young then as well, but i was so young, i thought what are they talking about. and i totally did not understand that then because i have got my whole career ahead of me and there will be loads and loads of roles, but certainly when i did turned 40,

i thought, i get what they were talking about. there is another intriguing discussion right now that seems to me potentially restricts the kinds of roles actors can do, that is the one about and the word is used "authenticity". to be very simplistic about it, it boils down to the idea that for example if you are playing a gay character, you really ought to have a gay actor doing that to give extra meaning and insight they can bring, and whether it might be a disabled part, that should be played by a disabled actor rather than famously many years ago, daniel day lewis playing a man with cerebral palsy. what's your feeling about that? i think it's good, i think it's a good thing that's happening. doesn't that restrict your range as an actor? i don't know. isn't that the point of acting that you can use your talent and imagination to put yourselves in other people's shoes.

certainly cate blanchett, another leading female actor, she says absolutely i have a right to play the role of a lesbian, because that's my gift, my skill, i can do it and i'm an actor. but i think if you have a woman who is a lesbian, why can't she play it. in the end, that should matter? i think so, because they completely understand it and can bring something to the role that somebody who isn't queer or gay can bring to the role. no, i think it's a good thing, it changes, change is always such a good thing and it has given people the chance who haven't been given a chance. and why not? i think, i don't have any issue with that. can i end where i began

talking about the extent to which an actor can shape a career. you are still very busy, how do you want to shape the next phase of your career, will it be very much about writing your own work? i am always open to anything really, i'm curious, so it's intriguing what's going to come up next, and i don't put any blocks in front of that and i don't have any ambition — i want to do this, i want to do that by the time i'm what age. but i would like to carry on creating and collaborating with others because i've got such a great deal of pleasure from doing that and it feels incredibly satisfying, in the way that it did all those years with mike lee because that felt like a proper collaboration, when you are creating something from scratch, that is what really thrills me, working with something from scratch. will you sing again? i would like to do, i went

in a very direction — different direction recently little voice was representative of my love of those old singers, but then i was drawn towards singers of my youth, postpunk, that movement and did a piece about that and i really loved doing that and i loved working with musicians, and, yes, i think to work with, yes, unusual musicians and just something that would challenge me in a different way, rather than being in a musical which i have no interest in whatsoever. so it would have to be something very left—field. that's a great thought to end on. jane horrocks, it's been a pleasure. thank you for being on hardtalk.

hello there. there's going to be some more warm sunshine at times on thursday. could be one of two showers breaking out, mind you. and later in the day, we're going to find this cloud coming in from the atlantic to bring a little rain into the northwest. right now, though, we've got this stream of cloud moving down from the north. a lot of it, though. this quite thin, high, cloud, but with more cloud around, temperatures will start at nearer nine or ten degrees early on thursday. and from that cloud, there could still be a little light rain or drizzle in scotland. now eastern parts of scotland should become drier and brighter. and in northern ireland there'll be some sunshine in the morning before that band of cloud brings that line of rain. for england and wales, there'll be some sunny spells developing, but as it warms up a bit we could trigger a few showers through the midlands, some eastern parts of england. further west it's likely to stay dry, and we may well find the highest temperature around worcestershire and herefordshire, but it's still only 20 degrees.

nothing to get too excited. we normally see temperatures a bit higher than that at this time of the year. and generally those numbers are going to be 17 or 18 celsius, once again, like wednesday. there is that weather front though, bringing that line of rain into scotland and northern ireland that's going to then push its way down into england and wales on friday. and that cloud may start to thicken up and bring with it a few more showers. and those could be a little heavy as they push into the midlands towards the south east of england. following on from that, we've got more sunshine to come for scotland and northern ireland, though the cloud will build up a bit and spread out. but temperatures are likely to reach 18 degrees in glasgow, the same as the temperature there in plymouth, and it'll be warm in the sunshine. for scotland and northern ireland as we head into the weekend though, there's likely to be more cloud coming in from the atlantic, a little bit more breezy in northern scotland. high pressure will keep it dry, though, for england and wales and there'll be a lot of sunshine around as well. but more cloud for scotland and northern ireland, just about thick enough to give a little light rain or drizzle here and there. no great amounts by any means. and we've still got temperatures

of 18 degrees in the central belt. in the sunshine for england and wales, temperatures could hit 20 or 21 celsius. and there's more sunshine to come for england and wales on sunday. more of a breeze in the southeast. should actually brighten up with some sunshine in south east scotland. other parts of scotland and northern ireland again seeing more cloud, not much rain coming from that cloud. and where you have the sunshine, it'll be warm again.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm marika 0i. the headlines.. a new climate report — warns the world is likely to break a key temperature threshold — in the next five years. prince harry's spokesperson says he and meghan markle were involved in a �*near catastrophic car chase�*, but new york police say there were no reported collisions, injuries or arrests. president biden heads for the g7 summit injapan, where tensions between indo—paciific nations are high on the agenda. this is a pacifist nation now facing the potential of a conflict on its doorstep. be it from a belligerent north korea, or because of china's increased aggression toward taiwan. and the world's most famous shipwreck — the titanic — we'll show you the first full—sized 3d scan