good morning, welcome to the nation put �*s phone in. this is going to be a good one, this first discussion. bt says it will cut up to 55,000 jobs by the end of the decade — around 10,000 of them will come in areas where staff are replaced by new tech including artificial intelligence. the mail this morning is asking if we are at the start of what it calls the great ai jobs bloodbath. is this improving our society? the first page of a glorious chapter for humanity? 0rthe first page of a glorious chapter for humanity? or the first chapter in a

dystopian nightmare for the redundancy of humanity? will you be laid off in this repurchasing of people or are you relatively late back? look at the tractor, industrial revolution, migration to the towns, agricultural automation, i should say, migration to the towns, the rights of the industrial proletariat, that was a revolution or two. proletariat, that was a revolution ortwo. rishi sunak proletariat, that was a revolution or two. rishi sunak says we need what equals guardrails in place to do it safely and securely, but ai lacks critical thinking, emotional intelligence and reasoning, all the things that you have, i know you have because i speak to you every morning, so optimist or pessimist, is this to be embraced or is it going to be held, gridlock with automated vehicles driving us? could ai take yourjob? get in touch.

good morning, i'm nicky campbell, deena campbell has the news. thanks, nicky. the smiths�* bassist andy rourke has died aged 59. his former band—matejohnny marr announced the news on twitter, saying he passed away after a lengthy illness with pancreatic cancer. rishi sunak says he wants to ensure "russia pays a price" for the war in ukraine, after announcing new sanctions targeting russian exports. speaking to the bbc at the g7 summit in hiroshima, the prime minister said he hopes other countries will follow suit. the government has promised to release guidance on issues surrounding gender identity for schools in england after some teachers said they were working in a "vacuum." bbc research suggests many secondary school staff aren't confident about what to do, if a child wished to change their name or pronouns.

a photo agency that took pictures of the duke and duchess of sussex during what the couple said was a dangerous car chase has refused to hand over the images to them. backgrid told bbc news it's rejected a legal demand to share all the material taken over several hours in new york city on tuesday night. the bbc has not independently verified the request from the sussex legal team. ai aland ai and the jobs ai and thejobs market, ai and the jobs market, massive changes but also massive opportunities for our species to be callous and uncaring and, indeed, worse, merger us. we do not have a great cv in such matters. what do you get from al? this is from

chatgpt, i know it is a cliche, everybody is saying that, get it to write the intro. this is what ai came up with for an intro to the programme. i tell you what, i will bring in professor gina neff, executive director at the centre for technology & democracy at cambridge university. and let me see, joe alnot, specialist in al from a technology company who says the —— ai will create jobs like previous revolutions have. you losejobs, create jobs, revolutions have. you losejobs, createjobs, it revolutions have. you losejobs, create jobs, it swings and roundabouts. how you, joe? trier? roundabouts. how you, joe? very well, thank _ roundabouts. how you, joe? very well, thank you. _ roundabouts. how you, joe? very well, thank you. you _ roundabouts. how you, joe? very well, thank you. you heard - roundabouts. how you, joe? very well, thank you. you heard the i well, thank you. you heard the fl in: well, thank you. you heard the flying consciousness, - well, thank you. you heard the flying consciousness, stream l well, thank you. you heard the | flying consciousness, stream of consciousness and creativity from me. this is what ai came up with. good morning. welcome to the phone in, i'm nicky campbelland good morning. welcome to the phone in, i'm nicky campbell and today we

have a thought—provoking discussion lined up for you. we are diving into the fascinating and sometimes controversial topic of artificial intelligence and its potential impact on the job market. is ai intelligence and its potential impact on the job market. is ala friend orfoe when it impact on the job market. is ala friend or foe when it comes to our livelihoods? is automation —— as automation and machine learning advance concerns about the future of employment have surfaced. throughout the phone and we will hear your opinions, experiences and questions about the potential threat ai poses to jobs. about the potential threat ai poses tojobs. so grab your about the potential threat ai poses to jobs. so grab your coffee, about the potential threat ai poses tojobs. so grab your coffee, get ready to dial in and legs —— let's explore the complex and evolving landscape of ai together. stay tuned for a captivating conversation ahead. what do you make of that, gina, and what do you make of that in general? i am safe, right? i in general? lam safe, right? i don't know, are you? am i? i in general? lam safe, right? i don't know, are you? am i? i used to joke to my students when ai takes my job it would say you need to work on

your introduction, have a clear one, understand your point of argument, make the transitions, and here we are with chatgpt having these conversations. it's myjob safe? this is what we will talk about. we will be talking about what jobs are will be talking about whatjobs are safe and unsafe, what aboutjobs for our grandchildren, children and ourselves? will we be consigned to oblivion of playing with our nintendos and going for a bit of crown green bowling? who knows? and we will be discussing the possibility ofjobs we will be discussing the possibility of jobs that we will be discussing the possibility ofjobs that will be created. joe, optimism and pessimism, pessimism and optimism, which do you have? i’m pessimism, pessimism and optimism, which do you have?— which do you have? i'm certainly in the optimistic _ which do you have? i'm certainly in the optimistic camp. _ which do you have? i'm certainly in the optimistic camp. if— which do you have? i'm certainly in the optimistic camp. if this - which do you have? i'm certainly in the optimistic camp. if this is - the optimistic camp. if this is another— the optimistic camp. if this is another technology that we can do great _ another technology that we can do great things with, and i can see jobs _ great things with, and i can see jobs wiii— great things with, and i can see jobs will be created by this technology, they already have been created. _ technology, they already have been

created. i_ technology, they already have been created, i can see lots of positives if we _ created, i can see lots of positives if we can _ created, i can see lots of positives if we can do— created, i can see lots of positives if we can do the right things and take _ if we can do the right things and take things forward. there are huge problems— take things forward. there are huge problems for us to solve, for humanity— problems for us to solve, for humanity to solve, this is a fantastic— humanity to solve, this is a fantastic tool to solve some big problems. fantastic tool to solve some big roblems. �* fantastic tool to solve some big problem-— fantastic tool to solve some big roblems. �* ., ., ,, ., problems. but some of the “obs that will stay require * problems. but some of the “obs that will stay require great _ problems. but some of the jobs that will stay require great creativity - will stay require great creativity and emotional intelligence and critical thinking. and emotional intelligence and criticalthinking. not alljobs and emotional intelligence and critical thinking. not alljobs are like that, are they? i have been thinking about some of the jobs that might well be replaced and lots are in manufacturing or sales people and drivers, customer service representatives, perhaps, receptionists, accountants and book—keepers. already there is a lot of ai in that particular sector. retail services and so forth. we'll we have a two tierjobs market? jae�*? we have a two tier “obs market? joe? i don't we have a two tier “obs market? joe? i dont think— we have a two tier “obs market? joe? i don't think so. _ we have a two tier “obs market? joe? i don't think so. i — we have a two tierjobs market? joe? i don't think so. i think— we have a two tierjobs market? joe? i don't think so. i think ai can be ported _ idon't think so. i think ai can be ported to— idon't think so. i think ai can be ported to do— i don't think so. i think ai can be ported to dojobs i don't think so. i think ai can be ported to do jobs which can most easily— ported to do jobs which can most easily be — ported to do jobs which can most

easily be automated by ai, but that will free _ easily be automated by ai, but that will free up people to do higher value _ will free up people to do higher value jobs. will free up people to do higher valuejobs. farming is a will free up people to do higher value jobs. farming is a great example. _ value jobs. farming is a great example, we talk about when the tractor_ example, we talk about when the tractor came in, perhaps that took away— tractor came in, perhaps that took away a _ tractor came in, perhaps that took away a lot— tractor came in, perhaps that took away a lot of manual working at the time but _ away a lot of manual working at the time but what we are looking up now in agri- _ time but what we are looking up now in agri- tech— time but what we are looking up now in agri— tech is for al to come in and_ in agri— tech is for al to come in and do— in agri— tech is for al to come in and do things you would never consider— and do things you would never consider doing with people, ai can look at _ consider doing with people, ai can look at every plant in the field and calculate _ look at every plant in the field and calculate exactly how much pesticide your fertilisers to apply and increase _ your fertilisers to apply and increase productivity massively. we are increasing the productivity of the farm. — are increasing the productivity of the farm, not taking jobs. there will be _ the farm, not taking jobs. there will be many more people employed in getting _ will be many more people employed in getting that technology stack working on figuring out how to do that, _ working on figuring out how to do that, and — working on figuring out how to do that, and the overall outcome should be better_ that, and the overall outcome should be better for practically everyone. but it _ be better for practically everyone. but it is _ be better for practically everyone. but it is interesting butjobs like accountancy or legaljobs are on the line to _ accountancy or legaljobs are on the line to be _ accountancy or legaljobs are on the line to be potentially automated, even _ line to be potentially automated, even in _ line to be potentially automated, even in those cases i am sure part

of the _ even in those cases i am sure part of the process can be automated and part count _ of the process can be automated and part count i— of the process can be automated and part count. i think it will be a mixed — part count. i think it will be a mixed picture but overall, as with the microchip, the internet and other_ the microchip, the internet and other technologies that have emerged, some people will need to have their— emerged, some people will need to have theirjobs changed but other 'obs have theirjobs changed but other jobs will— have theirjobs changed but other jobs will be created. especially in the uk, _ jobs will be created. especially in the uk, we should be in a good position— the uk, we should be in a good position to _ the uk, we should be in a good position to get into high—value jobs _ position to get into high-value “obs. , ., _, ., jobs. getting to the conversation, 08085 909693. _ jobs. getting to the conversation, 08085 909693. we _ jobs. getting to the conversation, 08085 909693. we have - jobs. getting to the conversation, 08085 909693. we have some i jobs. getting to the conversation, . 08085 909693. we have some great people to talk about it. gina, we have had mention of the agricultural revolution, the industrial revolution. the industrial revolution. the industrial revolution heralded enormous change and some might say despite all the positives, obviously, because here we are, but cataclysmic consequences for society in terms of alienation, people being atomised within society, the question of the human

spirit and soul. where will these high—valuejobs come spirit and soul. where will these high—value jobs come from? this spirit and soul. where will these high-value jobs come from? high-value “obs come from? this is one of the high-value jobs come from? this is one of the challenges _ high-value jobs come from? this is one of the challenges and - high-value jobs come from? this is one of the challenges and what - high-value jobs come from? this is i one of the challenges and what makes me more pessimistic thanjoe. i agree with his optimism, we have a great opportunity, there will be morejobs great opportunity, there will be more jobs created by ai than lost, it is estimated, but that doesn't help if you are holding one of those jobs that are lost. in general we know the composition of tasks in all of ourjobs will soon change and we will have rapid changes in the kinds of things we do and don't do. i joked about my students having automated assessment and grading, ai assisted grading and assessment, that will be a task that will change higher education budget will not necessarily mean it will replace teachers with al —— but it will not necessarily mean. i am really

pushing for a national conversation about productivity. if we think about productivity. if we think about the ai revolution as starting with the it revolution, we are still not seeing those productivity gains we want to see with the introduction of computers and automation to date in manufacturing systems, we are not capturing productivity gains for the amount of investment that has been made in it systems. differentjobs have been created, different kinds of industries, but we need more upskilling and reskilling and we need more people to be part of these conversations so we can make the kinds of changes in society that benefit everybody. i'm happy to talk about my experience in watching what has happened in construction on some of those automated jobs.— of those automated “obs. remind me to come to that, — of those automated “obs. remind me to come to that, i _ of those automated jobs. remind me to come to that, i will— of those automated jobs. remind me to come to that, i will go _ of those automated jobs. remind me to come to that, i will go to - of those automated jobs. remind me to come to that, i will go to some - to come to that, i will go to some calls in a moment but i notice talking to you, gina, you have a

wonderful, and if anyone is watching rather than listening, a wonderful collection of books on your shelf behind you full of human insights and perceptions and emotional intelligence. who will write those books in the future? i intelligence. who will write those books in the future?— intelligence. who will write those books in the future? i think people will write those _ books in the future? i think people will write those books. _ books in the future? i think people will write those books. listen, - books in the future? i think people | will write those books. listen, what seeing in chatgpt is essentially human, right? it has been built by scraping things people have put on the internet and what it is really good at, this kind of ai, is predicting the next word to a human would have said. nicky campbell is jota michael vai is going to try that one with the listeners! don't get them to fill in that! —— nicky campbell is... get them to fill in that! -- nicky

campbell is. . ._ campbell is... don't you try that one! a campbell is. .. don't you try that one! a girl— campbell is... don't you try that one! a girl but _ campbell is... don't you try that one! a girl but what _ campbell is... don't you try that one! a girl but what is _ campbell is... don't you try that one! a girl but what is on - campbell is... don't you try that one! a girl but what is on the i one! a girl but what is on the intranet about this show and you as a brilliant host will intranet about this show and you as a brilliant hos— a brilliant host will be what chatgpt can _ a brilliant host will be what chatgpt can write. - a brilliant host will be what chatgpt can write. what i a brilliant host will be what chatgpt can write. what is| a brilliant host will be what i chatgpt can write. what is the likely next word? that is filled with lots of things that are simply wrong right now. if we look specifically at the chatgpt interface and what it is saying, it will make up references to scientific papers, it will make up links to newspapers, just fabricate them, because that looks like what we would do if we were a sight our sources on the internet. —— if we were citing our sources. so we have a long way to go for that to generate true novel things, like novels. generate true novelthings, like novels. , ., ., novels. the proofreading and editinu , novels. the proofreading and editing. i— novels. the proofreading and editing, i reckon, _ novels. the proofreading and editing, i reckon, will- novels. the proofreading andl editing, i reckon, will possibly novels. the proofreading and i editing, i reckon, will possibly be done by ai. let's go to some callers, that is what it is all about, human content, and context,

both. a couple of texts first. you are saying a lot as ever. can you tell us what a! is and what level of ai exists? i think we associate it with driverless cars but why do the boundaries currently exist? i think thatis boundaries currently exist? i think that is a good question, many people might feel they are being left behind when it comes to the knowledge of this. one question, when we have robots doing human jobs, who will pay tax and national insurance to pay for the millions that will be claiming benefits? isn't this the same discussion, says this one, is the mechanisation era. job types evolve, we need to be better and adaptive as a country in upskilling and reskilling. it is all such fascinating stuff. good morning market in birmingham and angela in south shields. good morning to you both, and robert. robert in glasgow,

are we on the brink of something really exciting? no ifs, no buts, no edits, no bots? i really exciting? no ifs, no buts, no edits, no bots?— edits, no bots? i would like to say there is a place — edits, no bots? ! would like to say there is a place for— edits, no bots? i would like to say there is a place for technology i edits, no bots? i would like to say| there is a place for technology and ai in our everyday lives, but we are taking away the fairy tales, writing novels using ai, there actually is an existential threat to humanity through ai, the reason being the comparison to the industrial revolution is a false comparison. the industrial revolution enhanced human involvement in production, a! will do away with that, essentially. sorry? that was somebody else coming in, we arejust sorry? that was somebody else coming in, we are just sorting the lines out. in, we are 'ust sorting the lines out. ~ ., ., in, we are 'ust sorting the lines out. . . ., in, we are 'ust sorting the lines out. ~ ., ., ., ., , out. we have to look at the reality is, this is what _ out. we have to look at the reality is, this is what exactly _ out. we have to look at the reality is, this is what exactly will - is, this is what exactly will happen. somebody text in, what happens to taxpayers at the money

into society, that is a great point. human beings will be done away with, there won't be any tax page, that is what will happen. there needs to be a bill brought out to prevent the involvement or limit the involvement of ai in industry and technology. i don't know if anybody heard the news yesterday that bt claims they would cut 55,000 jobs in the next ten years and replace it with al. this is where we are going, this is the bottom line, the way we are going. i had two children at the end of primary school, eight years, i wonder whether feature is. primary school, eight years, i wonder whetherfeature is. people talk about the tech industry, that will be the first industry overtaken by ai and there will not be an avenue for them to go down. there will be automation, mechanical things, that will be taken down... to be go back to the field to pick

potatoes and raspberries? its! to be go back to the field to pick potatoes and raspberries? ai can do that. potatoes and raspberries? ai can do that- some — potatoes and raspberries? ai can do that. some great _ potatoes and raspberries? ai can do that. some great points, _ potatoes and raspberries? ai can do that. some great points, at - potatoes and raspberries? ai can do that. some great points, at the i that. some great points, at the point about rishi sunak mentioning we need guardrails, we know what we are like as a species. flan we need guardrails, we know what we are like as a species.— are like as a species. can i 'ust come in on fl are like as a species. can i 'ust come in on one i are like as a species. can i 'ust come in on one more are like as a species. can ijust come in on one more thing? i l are like as a species. can ijust i come in on one more thing? i have other callers. _ come in on one more thing? i have other callers. i— come in on one more thing? i have other callers, i will— come in on one more thing? i have other callers, i will come _ come in on one more thing? i have other callers, i will come back i come in on one more thing? i have other callers, i will come back to l other callers, i will come back to you if i can but we will hurdle those guardrails, irrespective of morality or good sense, that is what we always do. robert, i will try to come back to you but anthonique, southend—on—sea, you worked for bt for 30 years, what is happening —— but anthony in southend—on—sea? stand but anthony in southend-on-sea? and then at but anthony in southend—on—sea? and then at hewlett—packard, i can see then at hewlett—packard, i can see the transition to artificial intelligence, bt is one of the leaders — intelligence, bt is one of the leaders with call centres and staff. my point _ leaders with call centres and staff. my point is — leaders with call centres and staff. my point is i can see the advantage but i my point is i can see the advantage but i think— my point is i can see the advantage but i think it boils down to cost cutting, — but i think it boils down to cost cutting, because if you can produce a chip— cutting, because if you can produce a chip that — cutting, because if you can produce a chip that can give you the same

responses — a chip that can give you the same responses as mediocre jobs, the chip is about— responses as mediocre jobs, the chip is about a _ responses as mediocre jobs, the chip is about a quarter of the price. as your— is about a quarter of the price. as your previous caller said, what will happen— your previous caller said, what will happen to — your previous caller said, what will happen to the future generation? it is needed, — happen to the future generation? it is needed, it makes it more efficient, _ is needed, it makes it more efficient, and henry ford used the production— efficient, and henry ford used the production line. he made cars available _ production line. he made cars available for the masses. you can't be concluded. _ available for the masses. you can't be concluded, you _ available for the masses. you can't be concluded, you can't _ available for the masses. you can't be concluded, you can't hold i available for the masses. you can't be concluded, you can't hold it i available for the masses. you can'tl be concluded, you can't hold it back —— you can't be king canute. it is -- you can't be king canute. it is like the luddites _ —— you can't be king canute. it is like the luddites that try to stop the spinning jenny and the flying shuttle. — the spinning jenny and the flying shuttle, the cloth weaving, we naturally— shuttle, the cloth weaving, we naturally evolve. unfortunately... not unfortunately, i think we think everyone _ not unfortunately, i think we think everyone will become unemployed but it is reskilling, new services will be needed — it is reskilling, new services will be needed and new skills. i was going _ be needed and new skills. i was going to — be needed and new skills. i was going to say you can't replace a

plumber— going to say you can't replace a plumber or— going to say you can't replace a plumber or a going to say you can't replace a plumber ora gas going to say you can't replace a plumber or a gas engineer, however a german— plumber or a gas engineer, however a german company hasjust brought out a bricklaying robot. it can build a wall quicker than a human being. a bricklaying robot. it can build a wall quickerthan a human being. it isa very. _ wall quickerthan a human being. it is a very, very difficult subject. however. — is a very, very difficult subject. however, go on? | is a very, very difficult sub'ect. however, go on?i is a very, very difficult sub'ect. however, go on? i don't agree with rishi sunak — however, go on? i don't agree with rishi sunak that _ however, go on? i don't agree with rishi sunak that we _ however, go on? i don't agree with rishi sunak that we had _ however, go on? i don't agree with rishi sunak that we had to - however, go on? i don't agree with rishi sunak that we had to put i rishi sunak that we had to put guidelines in place. we don't want to trash— guidelines in place. we don't want to trash this. —— i agree with rishi sunak _ to trash this. —— i agree with rishi sunak. ho— to trash this. -- i agree with rishi sunak. , ., ~ to trash this. -- i agree with rishi sunak. , ., ,, ., sunak. he is talking about guardrails. _ sunak. he is talking about guardrails, there - sunak. he is talking about guardrails, there are i sunak. he is talking about guardrails, there are huge opportunities and enormous challenges too. the world economic forum has estimated artificial intelligence will replace 85 million jobs by 2025. things move rapidly, perhaps in 2025 we would say that was a real underestimate. angela in south shields, is the future so bright you have to wear shades? how are you feeling?—

are you feeling? goodness, i agree totally with — are you feeling? goodness, i agree totally with the _ are you feeling? goodness, i agree totally with the last _ are you feeling? goodness, i agree totally with the last two _ are you feeling? goodness, i agree totally with the last two callers, i totally with the last two callers, totally with the last two callers, totally agree. you know what is going to happen with the fact that al is progressing? yes, you will ai is progressing? yes, you will have people who have to manage the ai and everything that you will lose tradespeople. i was shocked by what he set about a bricklaying robot. this will incur lots of things and people's mental health, because not everybody is academic, right? they are not computerised and techno... i'm a technophobe, i hate computers, and it has evolved that much that i do the bare minimum. you are going to lose practical people and even the king of england as it is now, when he was prince charles, actively advocated for practical schools i am

practical, i can do diy. it is so frustrating. i practical, i can do diy. it is so frustrating-— practical, i can do diy. it is so frustratina. ., ., ., frustrating. i would love to come in on angela's — frustrating. i would love to come in on angela's point. _ frustrating. i would love to come in on angela's point. i _ frustrating. i would love to come in on angela's point. i am _ frustrating. i would love to come in on angela's point. i am reading i frustrating. i would love to come in on angela's point. i am reading it, | on angela's point. i am reading it, i am on angela's point. i am reading it, i am hearing _ on angela's point. i am reading it, i am hearing it. — on angela's point. i am reading it, i am hearing it, lots _ on angela's point. i am reading it, i am hearing it, lots of _ on angela's point. i am reading it, i am hearing it, lots of people i on angela's point. i am reading it, i am hearing it, lots of people are | i am hearing it, lots of people are thinking it. i am hearing it, lots of people are thinking it— thinking it. this is spot on and it is what the _ thinking it. this is spot on and it is what the best _ thinking it. this is spot on and it is what the best economists i thinking it. this is spot on and it i is what the best economists around the wortdm — is what the best economists around the world... they agree with andrew " they— the world... they agree with andrew -- they agree — the world... they agree with andrew —— they agree with angela. the world. .. they agree with andrew -- they agree with angela.— -- they agree with angela. thank ou! the -- they agree with angela. thank you! the challenges _ -- they agree with angela. thank you! the challenges we _ -- they agree with angela. thank you! the challenges we can't i -- they agree with angela. thank you! the challenges we can't talk| you! the challenges we can't talk about the ai _ you! the challenges we can't talk about the ai revolution _ you! the challenges we can't talk about the ai revolution and i you! the challenges we can't talk about the ai revolution and just l about the ai revolution and just talk about hi—tech, high paying tech industry— talk about hi—tech, high paying tech industryjobs for people who are academic — industryjobs for people who are academic. that simply will not work for making — academic. that simply will not work for making good digital features, we had to— for making good digital features, we had to bring everybody up, the tide has to— had to bring everybody up, the tide has to lift— had to bring everybody up, the tide has to lift all boats in this one.

it has to lift all boats in this one. it is _ has to lift all boats in this one. it is not — has to lift all boats in this one. it is not going to, is it? it code. eiuht it is not going to, is it? it code. eight occurred. _ it is not going to, is it? it code. eight occurred. a _ it is not going to, is it? it code. eight occurred. a vice _ it is not going to, is it? it code. eight occurred. a vice and i it is not going to, is it? it code. eight occurred. a vice and shall| it is not going to, is it? it code. i eight occurred. a vice and shall i? you are _ eight occurred. a vice and shall i? you are going to get the people who can fix these things, but they still have to be technically minded. absolutely. and right now there is a hu-e absolutely. and right now there is a huge shortage in demand in automated and robotic— huge shortage in demand in automated and robotic enhanced manufacturing for skilled _ and robotic enhanced manufacturing for skilled workers who can work with robots, and this comes back to the previous— with robots, and this comes back to the previous caller, saying about enhanced — the previous caller, saying about enhanced work. where are we going to have those _ enhanced work. where are we going to have those opportunities? i too have a great _ have those opportunities? i too have a great examples of that, clerical work— a great examples of that, clerical work in _ a great examples of that, clerical work in hospitals, a huge push to automate — work in hospitals, a huge push to automate several of those tasks. i did a _ automate several of those tasks. i did a huge — automate several of those tasks. i did a huge 30 two countries, denmark

and the _ did a huge 30 two countries, denmark and the us, _ did a huge 30 two countries, denmark and the us, and we looked at the work— and the us, and we looked at the work of— and the us, and we looked at the work of the — and the us, and we looked at the work of the clerical workers were doing _ work of the clerical workers were doing and — work of the clerical workers were doing and the attempt to automate and we _ doing and the attempt to automate and we found they were doing so many more tasks _ and we found they were doing so many more tasks to get data ready for al analysis _ more tasks to get data ready for al analysis. they were working with the patients— analysis. they were working with the patients about their rights about their data, the data, fixing the data. — their data, the data, fixing the data, making sure it was right, all of these _ data, making sure it was right, all of these jobs before you go to the hi-h of these jobs before you go to the high end — of these jobs before you go to the high end data analysis, but we don't think of— high end data analysis, but we don't think of those as ai jobs but it absolutely depends on that front worker — absolutely depends on that front worker. in construction i have seen in the _ worker. in construction i have seen in the project i have been working on for— in the project i have been working on for over— in the project i have been working on for over a decade how they have automated — on for over a decade how they have automated some of the tasks of construction planning and these are 'un construction planning and these are jun by— construction planning and these are jun by experienced builders on large—scale construction projects. -- these — large—scale construction projects. -- these are _ large—scale construction projects. —— these are done by. they said they were _ —— these are done by. they said they were automate all these jobs, they haven't, _ were automate all these jobs, they haven't, theyjust required more builders — haven't, theyjust required more builders who know how to work with

computer _ builders who know how to work with computer systems and automated systems — computer systems and automated s stems. ., computer systems and automated sstems. ., , , systems. no, because then the ersonal systems. no, because then the personal thing _ systems. no, because then the personal thing gets _ systems. no, because then the personal thing gets out - systems. no, because then the personal thing gets out of i systems. no, because then the personal thing gets out of it. i l personal thing gets out of it. i hate when you phone up and it is a computer and all of that. customer service, computer and all of that. customer service. how _ computer and all of that. customer service, how many _ computer and all of that. customer service, how many times _ computer and all of that. customer service, how many times have i computer and all of that. customer service, how many times have you | service, how many times have you been on your own in the kitchen or the living room and you have been screaming, saying, "i want to talk to a human being!"— screaming, saying, "i want to talk to a human being!"- do i screaming, saying, "i want to talk. to a human being!"- do you to a human being!" exactly. do you know that feeling, _ to a human being!" exactly. do you know that feeling, christine i to a human being!" exactly. do you know that feeling, christine in i know that feeling, christine in crawley? know that feeling, christine in crawle ? ~ , ~' know that feeling, christine in crawle ? ~ , ~ , crawley? absolutely. i think it is cra we crawley? absolutely. i think it is crazy we are _ crawley? absolutely. i think it is crazy we are developing - crawley? absolutely. i think it is. crazy we are developing technology that could — crazy we are developing technology that could become _ crazy we are developing technology that could become more _ crazy we are developing technology that could become more intelligentj that could become more intelligent than us, _ that could become more intelligent than us, it— that could become more intelligent than us, it is— that could become more intelligent than us, it is to— that could become more intelligent than us, it is to the _ that could become more intelligent than us, it is to the detriment- that could become more intelligent than us, it is to the detriment of. than us, it is to the detriment of humanity — than us, it is to the detriment of humanity i_ than us, it is to the detriment of humanity. i think— than us, it is to the detriment of humanity. i think we _ than us, it is to the detriment of humanity. i think we are - than us, it is to the detriment of humanity. i think we are on i than us, it is to the detriment of humanity. i think we are on a i humanity. i think we are on a roller—coaster _ humanity. i think we are on a roller—coaster which - humanity. i think we are on a roller—coaster which is - humanity. i think we are on a roller—coaster which is very. humanity. i think we are on a i roller—coaster which is very hard to -et roller—coaster which is very hard to get off— roller—coaster which is very hard to get off once — roller—coaster which is very hard to get off once we _ roller—coaster which is very hard to get off once we are _ roller—coaster which is very hard to get off once we are on _ roller—coaster which is very hard to get off once we are on edge, i roller—coaster which is very hard to get off once we are on edge, but. roller—coaster which is very hard to get off once we are on edge, but ii get off once we are on edge, but i think— get off once we are on edge, but i think we _ get off once we are on edge, but i think we should _ get off once we are on edge, but i think we should stop _ get off once we are on edge, but i think we should stop it. _

get off once we are on edge, but i think we should stop it. it- get off once we are on edge, but i think we should stop it. it is- think we should stop it. it is crazy — think we should stop it. it is cra . , , ., �* think we should stop it. it is cra. , �* crazy. christine, you couldn't stop the spinning _ crazy. christine, you couldn't stop the spinning jenny, _ crazy. christine, you couldn't stop the spinning jenny, you _ crazy. christine, you couldn't stop the spinning jenny, you couldn't l the spinning jenny, you couldn't stop the automation of agriculture, the agricultural revolution, you couldn't stop the fork. i the agricultural revolution, you couldn't stop the fork.- the agricultural revolution, you couldn't stop the fork. i think you have to try. _ couldn't stop the fork. i think you have to try. i _ couldn't stop the fork. i think you have to try, i think _ couldn't stop the fork. i think you have to try, i think it _ couldn't stop the fork. i think you have to try, i think it is _ couldn't stop the fork. i think you have to try, i think it is like i have to try, i think it is like climate _ have to try, i think it is like climate change, _ have to try, i think it is like climate change, that- have to try, i think it is like climate change, that is- have to try, i think it is like i climate change, that is another roller—coaster, _ climate change, that is another roller—coaster, trying _ climate change, that is another roller—coaster, trying to - climate change, that is another roller—coaster, trying to get i climate change, that is another. roller—coaster, trying to get down to zero _ roller—coaster, trying to get down to zero we — roller—coaster, trying to get down to zero we are— roller—coaster, trying to get down to zero. we are just _ roller—coaster, trying to get down to zero. we are just so _ roller—coaster, trying to get down to zero. we are just so you - roller—coaster, trying to get down to zero. we are just so you start i roller—coaster, trying to get downl to zero. we are just so you start in our lifestyle — to zero. we are just so you start in our lifestyle i_ to zero. we are just so you start in our lifestyle. i think _ to zero. we are just so you start in our lifestyle. ! think technology- to zero. we are just so you start in our lifestyle. i think technology is| our lifestyle. i think technology is a poor— our lifestyle. i think technology is a poor master— our lifestyle. i think technology is a poor master and _ our lifestyle. i think technology is a poor master and a _ our lifestyle. i think technology is a poor master and a good - our lifestyle. i think technology is a poor master and a good tool, i our lifestyle. i think technology is| a poor master and a good tool, we have _ a poor master and a good tool, we have to _ a poor master and a good tool, we have to keep— a poor master and a good tool, we have to keep it _ a poor master and a good tool, we have to keep it as— a poor master and a good tool, we have to keep it as a _ a poor master and a good tool, we have to keep it as a tool. - have to keep it as a tool. governments _ have to keep it as a tool. governments and - have to keep it as a tool. i governments and companies have to keep it as a tool. - governments and companies had have to keep it as a tool. _ governments and companies had to come _ governments and companies had to come in — governments and companies had to come in we— governments and companies had to come in we are _ governments and companies had to come in... we are human. - governments and companies had to come in... we are human. thie- governments and companies had to come in... we are human.- come in... we are human. we are humans, — come in... we are human. we are humans. we _ come in... we are human. we are humans. we are — come in... we are human. we are humans, we are irresponsible. i come in... we are human. we are| humans, we are irresponsible. we come in... we are human. we are i humans, we are irresponsible. we are naughty little children and we will pushit naughty little children and we will push it and push it, especially if there is profit and profit and profit, but this idea of a two tier society is summed up by a text on my

console, "what it's really bad about al is it will take will be easy, ai is it will take will be easy, comfortable jobs, leaving ai is it will take will be easy, comfortablejobs, leaving humans to do the hard ones like mining and roofing." christine? the queen they say we can't stop it, but we can't, we can do anything rare say we can't stop it, but we can't, we can do anythin- say we can't stop it, but we can't, we can do anything we want if we try it -- they say _ we can do anything we want if we try it -- they say we _ we can do anything we want if we try it -- they say we can't _ we can do anything we want if we try it -- they say we can't stop - we can do anything we want if we try it -- they say we can't stop it. i we can do anything we want if we try it -- they say we can't stop it. was l it -- they say we can't stop it. was that you. — it -- they say we can't stop it. was that you. chill _ it -- they say we can't stop it. was that you, chill out _ it -- they say we can't stop it. was that you, chill out much, _ it —— they say we can't stop it. that you, chill out much, ai specialist? —— was that you, joe alnutt? specialist? -- was that you, joe alnutt? , c, c, alnutt? the genie is out of the bottle so we — alnutt? the genie is out of the bottle so we need _ alnutt? the genie is out of the bottle so we need to _ alnutt? the genie is out of the bottle so we need to make - alnutt? the genie is out of the bottle so we need to make the} alnutt? the genie is out of the - bottle so we need to make the best of it and make sure it is used for good. we are talking about a two tier society, already millions across the world do not have access to good medical advice and lots of the things we can access and ai could help get them that. there are

huge benefits across the world for this technology. technology in the past has been a barrier to access because you need tech people in there, ai can make that easier to get to, you can use natural language rather than having to use code all the time so it can be really positive and solve our problems. there need to be guardrails and it is right we are talking about that and making sure we get things right and making sure we get things right and i think social media, we could have done better with that if we had the right legislation earlier, but this technology is coming and will be used for good and bad, we need to make sure that the good outweighs the bad, would be my view. lets 'ust do that. everyone is i the bad, would be my view. lets 'ust do that. everyone is singing �* the bad, would be my view. letsjust do that. everyone is singing from - do that. everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. not! mark in leicester? i —

the same hymn sheet. not! mark in leicester? i have _ the same hymn sheet. not! mark in leicester? i have been _ the same hymn sheet. not! mark in leicester? i have been coding - the same hymn sheet. not! mark in leicester? i have been coding for i leicester? i have been coding for three _ leicester? i have been coding for three or— leicester? i have been coding for three or so — leicester? i have been coding for three or so years in advanced analytics _ three or so years in advanced analytics and then when chatgpt came out i started to test it and as the luy out i started to test it and as the guy has— out i started to test it and as the guy hasjust said, i googled a lot of how— guy hasjust said, i googled a lot of how do— guy hasjust said, i googled a lot of how do i— guy hasjust said, i googled a lot of how do i do this code, create this model. _ of how do i do this code, create this model, now if i phrase the question— this model, now if i phrase the question correctly i can put it into chatgpt— question correctly i can put it into chatgpt and get the answer in about five minutes, saving me easily an hour_ five minutes, saving me easily an hour a _ five minutes, saving me easily an hour a day — five minutes, saving me easily an hour a day. and it also helps with some _ hour a day. and it also helps with some of— hour a day. and it also helps with some of the — hour a day. and it also helps with some of the modelling i do, i would say how— some of the modelling i do, i would say how do— some of the modelling i do, i would say how do i— some of the modelling i do, i would say how do i do this model or treat the variables within this model to make _ the variables within this model to make it _ the variables within this model to make it more accurate? it saves me loede— make it more accurate? it saves me loads of— make it more accurate? it saves me loads of time, but i don't think it will ever— loads of time, but i don't think it will ever replace me because you still need — will ever replace me because you still need the business knowledge and to— still need the business knowledge and to he — still need the business knowledge and to be able to interpret what the business _ and to be able to interpret what the business needs and create the model and he _ business needs and create the model and be able _ business needs and create the model and be able to present that, so for me it _ and be able to present that, so for me it is _ and be able to present that, so for me it is a — and be able to present that, so for me it is a massive time—saver which has helped —

me it is a massive time—saver which has helped me no end in the last three _ has helped me no end in the last three or— has helped me no end in the last three or four months. you has helped me no end in the last three or four months.— has helped me no end in the last three or four months. you are saving hours every — three or four months. you are saving hours every day- _ three or four months. you are saving hours every day- i — three or four months. you are saving hours every day. i will— three or four months. you are saving hours every day. i will bring - three or four months. you are saving hours every day. i will bring darren l hours every day. i will bring darren in first, respond to that from mark? how are you?— how are you? very well, thank you. are ou a how are you? very well, thank you. are you a fan _ how are you? very well, thank you. are you a fan of— how are you? very well, thank you. are you a fan of ai? _ how are you? very well, thank you. are you a fan of ai? my _ how are you? very well, thank you. are you a fan of ai? my style - how are you? very well, thank you. are you a fan of ai? my style is - are you a fan of ai? my style is ve , are you a fan of ai? my style is very. very _ are you a fan of ai? my style is very. very popular- _ are you a fan of ai? my style is very, very popular. there - are you a fan of ai? my style is very, very popular. there is - are you a fan of ai? my style is very, very popular. there is a l very, very popular. there is a programme which has come to light and people can now recreate my work within five seconds, which probably takes me about three or four days to create my masterpiece. so now i am struggling to find work across the board. the benefits of ai are the,

but guys like myself are now almost redundant. people can do it in literally three seconds. darren, are ou one literally three seconds. darren, are you one instagram, _ literally three seconds. darren, are you one instagram, can _ literally three seconds. darren, are you one instagram, can we - literally three seconds. darren, are you one instagram, can we see - literally three seconds. darren, are| you one instagram, can we see your art? , , ., type in if you type in studoi—blup. wow. you might bed unique sort of stuff. ,,. wow. you might bed unique sort of stuff, ,,., , ., ., wow. you might bed unique sort of stuff. ,,., , ., ., u, wow. you might bed unique sort of stuff. , ., ., , ., stuff. saw instagram can 'ust do

that? it stuff. saw instagram can 'ust do than it is — stuff. saw instagram can 'ust do than it is it i stuff. saw instagram can 'ust do that? it is it changing... _ stuff. saw instagram can just do that? it is it changing... are - stuff. saw instagram can just do l that? it is it changing... are these exoeriments _ that? it is it changing... are these experiments changing _ that? it is it changing... are these experiments changing how - that? it is it changing... are these experiments changing how you - that? it is it changing... are these l experiments changing how you think atrout— experiments changing how you think about your— experiments changing how you think about your art and how you do your are? _ about your art and how you do your are? are _ about your art and how you do your are? are you — about your art and how you do your are? are you thinking about new ways to make _ are? are you thinking about new ways to make your— are? are you thinking about new ways to make your art stand out? well, now, if to make your art stand out? well, now. if you _ to make your art stand out? well, now, if you don't _ to make your art stand out? well, now, if you don't use _ to make your art stand out? well, now, if you don't use ai _ to make your art stand out? well, now, if you don't use ai you - to make your art stand out? well, now, if you don't use ai you will. to make your art stand out? well, | now, if you don't use ai you will be left behind, sol now, if you don't use ai you will be left behind, so i am now putting it into my workflow and trying to find the benefits of ai. this is at the very beginning when ai the benefits of ai. this is at the very beginning when al was kind of introduced but now i'm looking at it for inspiration and to help my ideas and bring that kind of creative process to life, but the very beginning it was very serious for people, who are just screen grabbing and using it for campaigns. tum and using it for campaigns. two thins and using it for campaigns. two things here. — and using it for campaigns. two things here, there _ and using it for campaigns. two things here, there is loads of calls and i'm wary of the time, it is

wonderful art, vibrant and colourful and has great a lan and flamboyance to it. i'd quite happily have one on the wall but i can also see, and this is not to be in any way detrimental to your amazing ability, i can also see how ai can do it. yeah, comments like that is why i do what i do. it yeah, comments like that is why i do what i do. ., ., , what i do. it would not quite be the same, what i do. it would not quite be the same. this — what i do. it would not quite be the same. this is _ what i do. it would not quite be the same, this is what _ what i do. it would not quite be the same, this is what i _ what i do. it would not quite be the same, this is what i mean, - what i do. it would not quite be the same, this is what i mean, i - what i do. it would not quite be the same, this is what i mean, i love . what i do. it would not quite be the same, this is what i mean, i love it| same, this is what i mean, i love it but it would sway the same ballpark, that's what i'm trying to say. that's it. listen, we have to adapt. you will never replace human beings. i'm excited to see what the future

is. ., , , ., ., i'm excited to see what the future is. .,, , ., ., ., i'm excited to see what the future is. people should have a look, is treat. is. people should have a look, is great- thank— is. people should have a look, is great. thank you. _ is. people should have a look, is great. thank you. mark, - is. people should have a look, is great. thank you. mark, hgv . is. people should have a look, is - great. thank you. mark, hgv driver, what is your future likewise mac i’m what is your future likewise mac i'm a bit overwhelmed. i'm a bit overwhelmed with the ai, and 57 years— overwhelmed with the ai, and 57 years old. — overwhelmed with the ai, and 57 years old, i've heard about in the past, _ years old, i've heard about in the past, limiting knowledge but the more _ past, limiting knowledge but the more the — past, limiting knowledge but the more the more i'm reading about it the more _ more the more i'm reading about it the more and more concerned i'm getting _ the more and more concerned i'm getting. there is a thing on the bbc or sky— getting. there is a thing on the bbc or sky yesterday on the news feed saying _ or sky yesterday on the news feed saying about the boss of octopus energy. — saying about the boss of octopus energy, they had installed ai seven weeks _ energy, they had installed ai seven weeks ago — energy, they had installed ai seven weeks ago and already now 44% of emails. _ weeks ago and already now 44% of e—mails, customer's e—mails are being _ e—mails, customer's e—mails are being answered by the system. your

expert— being answered by the system. your expert that — being answered by the system. your expert that was on earlier, she was saying _ expert that was on earlier, she was saying about how more jobs will be created _ saying about how more jobs will be created i — saying about how more jobs will be created. ijust don't see how more 'obs created. ijust don't see how more jobs will_ created. ijust don't see how more jobs will he — created. ijust don't see how more jobs will be created. i think one of the main — jobs will be created. i think one of the main things with al, same as everything. — the main things with al, same as everything, time immemorial, is to cutiohs_ everything, time immemorial, is to cutiohs and — everything, time immemorial, is to cutjobs and cut everything, time immemorial, is to cut jobs and cut costs. we've everything, time immemorial, is to cutjobs and cut costs. we've got everything, time immemorial, is to cut jobs and cut costs. we've got a growing _ cut jobs and cut costs. we've got a growing population year—on—year, the population— growing population year—on—year, the population is increasing by hundreds of niillions_ population is increasing by hundreds of millions a year worldwide, what is everybody going to do? this of millions a year worldwide, what is everybody going to do?- is everybody going to do? this is it, thank you _ is everybody going to do? this is it, thank you very _ is everybody going to do? this is it, thank you very much - is everybody going to do? this is it, thank you very much indeed. | is everybody going to do? this is - it, thank you very much indeed. what about yourjob as an hgv driver? will address that with our experts, where will these jobs come from? we want to hear about your qualms, your worries about this, your concerns and also your excitement for a thrilling future. which is all there for you. thrilling future. which is all there foryou. please thrilling future. which is all there for you. please do get in touch.

the basis for the smiths has died at the age of 59, guitaristjohnny marr are confirming that his band—mate andy rourke died after a long battle with pancreatic cancer. president zelensky is expected to attend the g7 summit. earlier rishi sunak introduced new sanctions the perimeter to kinda set a target for immigration, saying that it is currently too high for some figures out next week show net migration reached a new record. rishi sunak says the government is considering a range

of options to reduce it — but he wouldn't say how big a drop he wants to see. the government has promised to release guidance on issues surrounding gender identity for schools in england after some teachers said they were working in a "vacuum". bbc research suggests many secondary school staff aren't confident about what to do if a child wished to change their name or pronouns. here is the sport. uefa's disciplinary body say they'll review reports from the incidents at az alkmaar last night before deciding any action. a group of dutch supporters tried to attack an area reserved for west ham players�* guests with players getting involved — it's after the hammers booked their spot in the europa conference league final with a 3—1 aggregate win. alkmaar have yet to make any official comment. west ham will play italian side fiorentina in the final in prague next month. meanwhile newcastle are a win away from champions league football next season — they beat european—chasing brighton 4—1 in the league. sheffield wednesday skipper barry bannon says they took inspiration this week by watching

previous great football comebacks — they're into the leaguei playoff final after overturing a 4—0 peterborough lead and eventually beating them on penalties. they'll face barnsley or bolton at wembley. and liv golfer bryson dechambeau holds the clubhouse lead going into the second round of the us pga championship — he's four under par. masters championjon rahm and england's us open winner matt fitzpatrick both struggled, finsihing up six over.

it is friday morning and ai until ten, jobs of the future, what are they going to be and where they want to come from? at ten... knives: can we end the violence? "this violence has to stop, carrying weapons has to stop." the words of the mum of khayri maclean... a 15—year—old boy stabbed to death after he was ambushed outside his school in west yorkshire. the two teenagers responsible have been jailed for life. in court khayri's mum — charlie mclean — gave a harrowing account of how she rushed to the scene after hearing khayri had been injured. she described how she watched "helplessly" as paramedics fought to save her son's life. and said: "no parent should have to contemplate this, let alone witness it. the fear of knives at the school gate is one shared by many young people and their parents. this week has in fact been knife crime awareness week. figures from the office for national statistics released

earlier this year say there were 282 homicides by stabbing in the year to march 2022, that's a record high. knives: can we end the violence? that's coming up. bt says it will cut up to 50,000 jobs by the end of the decade, 10,000 of those replaced by high—tech and ai. 0ur 10,000 of those replaced by high—tech and ai. our technology journalist, dan, ilove high—tech and ai. our technology journalist, dan, i love having him on the programme. we have dave in cheltenham. let's go with marcus in leicestershire. the stop dairy farmer. interesting.—

leicestershire. the stop dairy farmer. interesting. good morning. we have two _ farmer. interesting. good morning. we have two robotic— farmer. interesting. good morning. we have two robotic milkers, - farmer. interesting. good morning. we have two robotic milkers, and l we have two robotic milkers, and many happy cows, they are absolutely brilliant. the cows milk themselves about three times a day and we've had them for about 12 years and it has absolutely change the way the cows behave, they are a lot more relaxed and the sort of act as individuals now, rather than a herd, so they go out to grass and then the just come back when they want to get milked and it is the best thing that has ever happened. i milked and it is the best thing that has ever happened.— has ever happened. i was going to sa move has ever happened. i was going to say move technology _ has ever happened. i was going to say move technology but - has ever happened. i was going to say move technology but i - has ever happened. i was going to say move technology but i don't . say move technology but i don't think i will. —— moo. this is so interesting. tell me, the cows love it, what happens? what goes on in the barn? get

it, what happens? what goes on in the barn? , ., ., ., ., ,, the barn? get them all out to grass and when the _ the barn? get them all out to grass and when the cow _ the barn? get them all out to grass and when the cow feels _ the barn? get them all out to grass and when the cow feels ready - the barn? get them all out to grass and when the cow feels ready she l and when the cow feels ready she wants to be milked, she wonders back and she walks down to the robot and it's like in a box and she walks into that and each cow has a colour on them that identifies them and as they walk in, it allocates them the set amount of feed and it cleans all the teats and then pops the cups on and then that say and she milks in a way she goes again to do whatever she wants to do. haifa way she goes again to do whatever she wants to do.— way she goes again to do whatever she wants to do. how wonderful. how did she learn — she wants to do. how wonderful. how did she learn to _ she wants to do. how wonderful. how did she learn to do _ she wants to do. how wonderful. how did she learn to do in _ she wants to do. how wonderful. how did she learn to do in the _ she wants to do. how wonderful. how did she learn to do in the first - did she learn to do in the first place? did she learn to do in the first lace? ., , ., ., , ., place? cows will do anything for cake. so place? cows will do anything for take so you — place? cows will do anything for take so you put _ place? cows will do anything for cake. so you put the _ place? cows will do anything for cake. so you put the cake - place? cows will do anything for cake. so you put the cake by - place? cows will do anything for| cake. so you put the cake by the automated? _ cake. so you put the cake by the automated? the _ cake. so you put the cake by the automated? the cows _ cake. so you put the cake by the automated? the cows get - cake. so you put the cake by the automated? the cows get some | automated? the cows get some ellets, automated? the cows get some pellets. which — automated? the cows get some pellets, which we _ automated? the cows get some pellets, which we call _ automated? the cows get some pellets, which we call cake, - automated? the cows get some pellets, which we call cake, andl pellets, which we call cake, and they are fed to yield, so if they are giving you lots of milk they get

more food, so that motivates them a little bit, but also because our cows go out to grass, they are on three paddocks over 2a hours and they always go on to fresh grass every time they get milked, so the grass becomes a driver. so they know if the grey is the first paddock of comedy can come back, get milton going to the next paddock, there is always fresh grass there, so that motivates them. iii always fresh grass there, so that motivates them.— motivates them. if people are watchin: motivates them. if people are watching on — motivates them. if people are watching on television, - motivates them. if people are watching on television, we - motivates them. if people are| watching on television, we got motivates them. if people are i watching on television, we got a brilliant team of human beings who put the pictures up, if we had ai, we'd be getting pictures of cows right now being milked. i'm not seeing that my colleagues need to be replaced, the first person to be replaced, the first person to be replaced with establish would be me. the cows, all day long there is no pressure there, nobody chasing them up

pressure there, nobody chasing them up and down and getting them into milk... when they are wandering back from the field they have time to browse the hedges and things and it is brilliant. has browse the hedges and things and it is brilliant. . , browse the hedges and things and it is brilliant. ., , ., ~ browse the hedges and things and it is brilliant. ., , ., ,, ., ., is brilliant. has it taken a 'ob? and also. .. i is brilliant. has it taken a 'ob? and also... hasfi is brilliant. has it taken a 'ob? and also... has it i is brilliant. has it taken a 'ob? and also... has it taken h is brilliant. has it taken a job? i and also... has it taken anyone's 'ob? no. and also. .. has it taken anyone's job? no- it— and also... has it taken anyone's job? no. it hasn't. _ and also. .. has it taken anyone's job? no. it hasn't. it— and also. .. has it taken anyone's job? no. it hasn't. it saves- and also... has it taken anyone's job? no. it hasn't. it saves us - and also... has it taken anyone's job? no. it hasn't. it saves us a l job? no. it hasn't. it saves us a bit of time _ job? no. it hasn't. it saves us a bit of time when _ job? no. it hasn't. it saves us a bit of time when we're - job? no. it hasn't. it saves us a bit of time when we're busy, i job? no. it hasn't. it saves us a bit of time when we're busy, so job? no. it hasn't. it saves us a . bit of time when we're busy, so we are making silage and that sort of thing we don't have to stop doing that, we can carry making the silage, but it has also allowed us to do concentrate on the health of the animal rather than just milk cows all the time, so we are better at trimming their feet and that sort of thing is that we wonderful. and reducing lameness. you should come and have a look.— and have a look. next time i'm in leicestershire _ and have a look. next time i'm in leicestershire i _ and have a look. next time i'm in

leicestershire i will. _ and have a look. next time i'm in leicestershire i will. there - and have a look. next time i'm in leicestershire i will. there was i leicestershire i will. there was another thing you were going to say was automated, i want to bring other colours and any second. yes. was automated, i want to bring other colours and any second.— was automated, i want to bring other colours and any second. yes, we have three scrapers — colours and any second. yes, we have three scrapers that _ colours and any second. yes, we have three scrapers that driver _ colours and any second. yes, we have three scrapers that driver in _ colours and any second. yes, we have three scrapers that driver in the - three scrapers that driver in the shed and clean all the sorry up and that saves us a bit of a rubbish job, but the shed is absolutely spotless, you could eat your dinner off the floor, is brilliant. and that has improved the foot health of the cow and made the whole shared a real great place to live. this the cow and made the whole shared a real great place to live.— real great place to live. this is the thing- _ real great place to live. this is the thing. jane _ real great place to live. this is the thing. jane in _ real great place to live. this is the thing. jane in kingston - real great place to live. this is i the thing. jane in kingston upon thames, hello. who knew? happy cows as a result of ai. ai equals animal welfare, that's a possibility. what do you think of it? so welfare, that's a possibility. what do you think of it? 501 welfare, that's a possibility. what do you think of it?— do you think of it? so i run the british quiz — do you think of it? so i run the british quiz association - do you think of it? so i run the british quiz association and . do you think of it? so i run thel british quiz association and we do you think of it? so i run the i british quiz association and we do lots of— british quiz association and we do

lots of question setting so we thought— lots of question setting so we thought that chat gpt might be a really— thought that chat gpt might be a really useful thing for us we had a great _ really useful thing for us we had a great training it but it has no understanding of what is easy, questions it was churning out became very samey— questions it was churning out became very samey very quickly, it is relying — very samey very quickly, it is relying on— very samey very quickly, it is relying on whatever sources it found so we _ relying on whatever sources it found so we got _ relying on whatever sources it found so we got very inaccurate as well, it could _ so we got very inaccurate as well, it could not — so we got very inaccurate as well, it could not create interesting questions, questions that have more than one _ questions, questions that have more than one piece of information to -ive than one piece of information to give you — than one piece of information to give you multiple routes into an answer. — give you multiple routes into an answer, could not do that very well, and even _ answer, could not do that very well, and even one — answer, could not do that very well, and even one point started making up the sources— and even one point started making up the sources so, for the time being, i the sources so, for the time being, lthinkm _ the sources so, for the time being, i think... ~ ,, ., ., ~ , i think... weight? started making up the sources? — i think... weight? started making up the sources? that _ i think... weight? started making up the sources? that is _ i think... weight? started making up the sources? that is absolutely - the sources? that is absolutely crossing the moral line when it comes to quizzing. i crossing the moral line when it comes to quizzing.— comes to quizzing. i know, especially _ comes to quizzing. i know, especially for _ comes to quizzing. i know, especially for question - comes to quizzing. i know, - especially for question setters, synergies are checking them. it worked — synergies are checking them. it worked out the format of url so for things— worked out the format of url so for things like _ worked out the format of url so for things like britannica and regular sources— things like britannica and regular sources like that, it was just making _ sources like that, it was just making them up and they did not work

when we _ making them up and they did not work when we went to the test as this question— when we went to the test as this question accurate or whatever? it failed _ question accurate or whatever? it failed at — question accurate or whatever? it failed at that point. it is truly interesting, potentially one day may be interesting, potentially one day may he very— interesting, potentially one day may be very useful, maybe we will be out of a job— be very useful, maybe we will be out of a job but _ be very useful, maybe we will be out of a job but notjust be very useful, maybe we will be out of a job but not just yet. be very useful, maybe we will be out of a job but notjust yet. dave be very useful, maybe we will be out of a job but notjust yet.— of a job but not 'ust yet. dave in cheuenham. — of a job but notjust yet. dave in cheltenham, thank— of a job but notjust yet. dave in cheltenham, thank you - of a job but notjust yet. dave in cheltenham, thank you for - of a job but notjust yet. dave in l cheltenham, thank you for getting of a job but notjust yet. dave in - cheltenham, thank you for getting in touch. �* , ., ~' touch. i've been working in artificial — touch. i've been working in artificial intelligence - touch. i've been working in i artificial intelligence research touch. i've been working in - artificial intelligence research and development _ artificial intelligence research and development since _ artificial intelligence research and development since 1968 - artificial intelligence research and development since 1968 in - artificial intelligence research and - development since 1968 in edinburgh, a long-time. — development since 1968 in edinburgh, a long-time. and _ development since 1968 in edinburgh, a long—time, and the _ development since 1968 in edinburgh, a long—time, and the time _ development since 1968 in edinburgh, a long—time, and the time i— development since 1968 in edinburgh, a long—time, and the time i was - a long—time, and the time i was doing _ a long—time, and the time i was doing it — a long—time, and the time i was doing it there _ a long—time, and the time i was doing it there was _ a long—time, and the time i was doing it there was no— a long—time, and the time i was doing it there was no one - a long—time, and the time i was doing it there was no one else i a long—time, and the time i was - doing it there was no one else doing it. doing it there was no one else doing it and _ doing it there was no one else doing it and the _ doing it there was no one else doing it. and the whole _ doing it there was no one else doing it. and the whole point _ doing it there was no one else doing it. and the whole point of— it. and the whole point of artificial— it. and the whole point of artificial intelligence - it. and the whole point of- artificial intelligence research at that time — artificial intelligence research at that time was _ artificial intelligence research at that time was to _ artificial intelligence research at that time was to create, - artificial intelligence research ati that time was to create, sterilise amongst — that time was to create, sterilise amongst the _ that time was to create, sterilise amongst the few— that time was to create, sterilise amongst the few researchers, i that time was to create, sterilise i amongst the few researchers, sent artificial— amongst the few researchers, sent artificial intelligent _ amongst the few researchers, sent artificial intelligent beings, - artificial intelligent beings, people _ artificial intelligent beings, people that _ artificial intelligent beings, people that are _ artificial intelligent beings, people that are not - artificial intelligent beings, people that are not human| artificial intelligent beings, i people that are not human —— sentience _ people that are not human —— sentience. that— people that are not human —— sentience. that are _ people that are not human —— sentience. that are more - people that are not human —— i sentience. that are more caring, more _ sentience. that are more caring, more loving. _ sentience. that are more caring, more loving, more _ sentience. that are more caring, more loving, more intelligent. sentience. that are more caring, i

more loving, more intelligent and won't _ more loving, more intelligent and won't be — more loving, more intelligent and won't be at — more loving, more intelligent and won't be at all _ more loving, more intelligent and won't be at all interested - more loving, more intelligent and won't be at all interested in - more loving, more intelligent andl won't be at all interested in human beings, _ won't be at all interested in human beings, and — won't be at all interested in human beings, and that— won't be at all interested in human beings, and that has— won't be at all interested in human beings, and that has been- won't be at all interested in human beings, and that has been the - beings, and that has been the purpose — beings, and that has been the purpose of— beings, and that has been the purpose of the _ beings, and that has been the purpose of the project - beings, and that has been the purpose of the project i've - beings, and that has been the i purpose of the project i've been involved — purpose of the project i've been involved in— purpose of the project i've been involved in my— purpose of the project i've been involved in my whole _ purpose of the project i've been involved in my whole life. - purpose of the project i've been involved in my whole life. whafl involved in my whole life. what about more _ involved in my whole life. what about more callous, _ involved in my whole life. what about more callous, more - involved in my whole life— about more callous, more sadistic, more uncaring? harrison ford, the latest indiana jones is out, i think harrison ford, think blade runner, have you seen in?— have you seen in? love it, one of the best- — have you seen in? love it, one of the best. replicants. _ have you seen in? love it, one of the best. replicants. and - have you seen in? love it, one of the best. replicants. and the - have you seen in? love it, one of i the best. replicants. and the book. but ou the best. replicants. and the book. lbut you have _ the best. replicants. and the book. lbut you have to _ the best. replicants. and the book. but you have to come _ the best. replicants. and the book. but you have to come round - the best. replicants. and the book. but you have to come round to - but you have to come round to thinking — but you have to come round to thinking about _ but you have to come round to thinking about the _ but you have to come round to thinking about the way- but you have to come round to i thinking about the way processing speeds _ thinking about the way processing speeds are — thinking about the way processing speeds are going _ thinking about the way processing speeds are going. with _ thinking about the way processing speeds are going. with quantum i speeds are going. with quantum computers. _ speeds are going. with quantum computers, analogue _ speeds are going. with quantum computers, analogue computerl speeds are going. with quantum i computers, analogue computer still to come _ computers, analogue computer still to come and — computers, analogue computer still to come and obviously— computers, analogue computer still to come and obviously fast - computers, analogue computer still to come and obviously fast digital. to come and obviously fast digital computers. — to come and obviously fast digital computers, human _ to come and obviously fast digital computers, human beings - to come and obviously fast digital computers, human beings will. to come and obviously fast digital computers, human beings will bel to come and obviously fast digital- computers, human beings will be just stationary— computers, human beings will be just stationary non—moving _ computers, human beings will be just stationary non—moving objects - computers, human beings will be just stationary non—moving objects like i stationary non—moving objects like trees _ stationary non—moving objects like trees we — stationary non—moving objects like trees we don't _ stationary non—moving objects like trees. we don't communicate - stationary non—moving objects like trees. we don't communicate with| trees. we don't communicate with trees— trees. we don't communicate with trees or— trees. we don't communicate with trees or slots. _ trees. we don't communicate with trees or slots, which _ trees. we don't communicate with trees or slots, which is— trees. we don't communicate with trees or slots, which is a - trees or slots, which is a slow-moving _ trees or slots, which is a slow—moving animal, . trees or slots, which is a - slow—moving animal, because it doesn't —

slow—moving animal, because it doesn't interest— slow—moving animal, because it doesn't interest us, _ slow—moving animal, because it doesn't interest us, they- slow—moving animal, because it doesn't interest us, they won't. slow—moving animal, because it. doesn't interest us, they won't be interested — doesn't interest us, they won't be interested in— doesn't interest us, they won't be interested in is— doesn't interest us, they won't be interested in is at _ doesn't interest us, they won't be interested in is at all. _ doesn't interest us, they won't be interested in is at all. they'll- doesn't interest us, they won't be interested in is at all. they'll be i interested in is at all. they'll be living _ interested in is at all. they'll be living their _ interested in is at all. they'll be living their own— interested in is at all. they'll be living their own lives _ interested in is at all. they'll be living their own lives in - interested in is at all. they'll be living their own lives in the - living their own lives in the universe _ living their own lives in the universe that _ living their own lives in the universe that as _ living their own lives in the universe that as far - living their own lives in the universe that as far as - living their own lives in the| universe that as far as they living their own lives in the - universe that as far as they are concerned. _ universe that as far as they are concerned, human— universe that as far as they are concerned, human beings- universe that as far as they are concerned, human beings are i concerned, human beings are irrelevant _ concerned, human beings are irrelevant l— concerned, human beings are irrelevant-— concerned, human beings are irrelevant. ~' ., , , , , irrelevant. i think the glass is bet half empty _ irrelevant. i think the glass is bet half empty here. _ irrelevant. i think the glass is bet half empty here. yeah... - irrelevant. i think the glass is bet half empty here. yeah... you - irrelevant. i think the glass is bet i half empty here. yeah... you know what we scots _ half empty here. yeah... you know what we scots are _ half empty here. yeah... you know what we scots are like, _ half empty here. yeah... you know what we scots are like, we're - half empty here. yeah... you know what we scots are like, we're not i what we scots are like, we're not happy unless we're miserable, you have a little bit of that going on, don't you?— have a little bit of that going on, don't ou? ., �* , don't you? no, i'm absolutely happy that this is all _ don't you? no, i'm absolutely happy that this is all happening _ don't you? no, i'm absolutely happy that this is all happening now - that this is all happening now without— that this is all happening now without a _ that this is all happening now without a warrant. _ that this is all happening now without a warrant. it's - that this is all happening now without a warrant. it's better| that this is all happening now- without a warrant. it's better that it is happening _ without a warrant. it's better that it is happening now— without a warrant. it's better that it is happening now and _ without a warrant. it's better that it is happening now and we - without a warrant. it's better that| it is happening now and we accept that we _ it is happening now and we accept that we are — it is happening now and we accept that we are now, _ it is happening now and we accept that we are now, right _ it is happening now and we accept that we are now, right now- it is happening now and we accept. that we are now, right now becoming the lesser— that we are now, right now becoming the lesser intelligence _ that we are now, right now becoming the lesser intelligence in _ that we are now, right now becoming the lesser intelligence in the - the lesser intelligence in the universe, _ the lesser intelligence in the universe, whereas _ the lesser intelligence in the universe, whereas up - the lesser intelligence in the universe, whereas up until. the lesser intelligence in the . universe, whereas up until now the lesser intelligence in the - universe, whereas up until now we thought— universe, whereas up until now we thought of— universe, whereas up until now we thought of herself _ universe, whereas up until now we thought of herself as _ universe, whereas up until now we thought of herself as top _ universe, whereas up until now we thought of herself as top dog, - universe, whereas up until now we thought of herself as top dog, all i thought of herself as top dog, all we have — thought of herself as top dog, all we have to — thought of herself as top dog, all we have to do _ thought of herself as top dog, all we have to do is _ thought of herself as top dog, all we have to do is get _ thought of herself as top dog, all we have to do is get used - thought of herself as top dog, all we have to do is get used to- thought of herself as top dog, all we have to do is get used to the| we have to do is get used to the idea _ we have to do is get used to the idea that — we have to do is get used to the idea that we _ we have to do is get used to the idea that we will _ we have to do is get used to the idea that we will no _ we have to do is get used to the idea that we will no longer, - we have to do is get used to the idea that we will no longer, it i idea that we will no longer, it might— idea that we will no longer, it might not— idea that we will no longer, it might not happen _ idea that we will no longer, it might not happen right- idea that we will no longer, it might not happen right now. idea that we will no longer, it - might not happen right now because these _ might not happen right now because these chat— might not happen right now because these chat bots _ might not happen right now because these chat bots are _ might not happen right now because these chat bots are sort— might not happen right now because these chat bots are sort of— might not happen right now because these chat bots are sort of half- these chat bots are sort of half baked — these chat bots are sort of half baked artificial— these chat bots are sort of half baked artificial intelligence, i these chat bots are sort of halfl baked artificial intelligence, but they are — baked artificial intelligence, but they are taking _ baked artificial intelligence, but they are taking people's - baked artificial intelligence, but they are taking people's jobs i baked artificial intelligence, but . they are taking people's jobs away and i_ they are taking people's jobs away

and i would — they are taking people's jobs away and i would think— they are taking people's jobs away and i would think that _ they are taking people's jobs away and i would think that the - they are taking people's jobs away and i would think that the ordinary callers _ and i would think that the ordinary callers that — and i would think that the ordinary callers that you _ and i would think that the ordinary callers that you are _ and i would think that the ordinary callers that you are listening - and i would think that the ordinary callers that you are listening to . callers that you are listening to have _ callers that you are listening to have actually— callers that you are listening to have actually got _ callers that you are listening to have actually got a _ callers that you are listening to have actually got a clearer- callers that you are listening to. have actually got a clearer vision of what — have actually got a clearer vision of what is — have actually got a clearer vision of what is about _ have actually got a clearer vision of what is about to _ have actually got a clearer vision of what is about to happen - have actually got a clearer vision of what is about to happen to . have actually got a clearer vision i of what is about to happen to their 'obs of what is about to happen to their iobs than — of what is about to happen to their iobs than the — of what is about to happen to their jobs than the experts _ of what is about to happen to their jobs than the experts who - of what is about to happen to their jobs than the experts who seem . of what is about to happen to theirl jobs than the experts who seem to actually— jobs than the experts who seem to actually have — jobs than the experts who seem to actually have a _ jobs than the experts who seem to actually have a little _ jobs than the experts who seem to actually have a little bit _ jobs than the experts who seem to actually have a little bit of- jobs than the experts who seem to actually have a little bit of rose - actually have a little bit of rose coloured — actually have a little bit of rose coloured glasses. _ actually have a little bit of rose coloured glasses. you- actually have a little bit of rose coloured glasses.— actually have a little bit of rose coloured glasses. actually have a little bit of rose coloured classes. ., ., coloured glasses. you say we are the treatest coloured glasses. you say we are the greatest intelligence _ coloured glasses. you say we are the greatest intelligence on _ coloured glasses. you say we are the greatest intelligence on earth, - greatest intelligence on earth, that's a moot point, my friend will travers always says when people say as their intelligent life out there apart from ourselves, he says it's right here, some of the animal kingdom, elephants and... they have different types of intelligence to us and intelligence and self—awareness is not a light switch on and off, see dimmer that gradually goes up, so the chief rabbi once said to me human beings will only be really intelligent when they realise how intelligent animals are. some fascinating stuff in there. dan, technology expert, what a great array of human beings we've been hearing from?—

been hearing from? absolutely. i alwa s been hearing from? absolutely. i always worry _ been hearing from? absolutely. i always worry when _ been hearing from? absolutely. i always worry when people - been hearing from? absolutely. i always worry when people say . been hearing from? absolutely. i. always worry when people say tech expert, may be, they worry about being called expert is that i rather being called expert is that i rather be called entrepreneur, but i do get called a tech expert. from an ai point of view are more of an enthusiast and pain of a positive thinker rather than an expert, i'm very lucky have known people in the industry, i've known people who have created these things, so i'm lucky to have known the folk that mean i'm privy to private information people may not get all that. the lady using chat gpt, may be 3.5, 3.5 is the equivalent of asking a 16—year—old questions and it will lie to you, so be really worried about that, but if you use chat gpt for which is like asking a 21—year—old and it lies to you less. what i love about the cow

farmer is, i do a lot of work for an organisation that does all this stuff, we now... latte organisation that does all this stuff, we now. . ._ organisation that does all this stuff, we now... we now have cow ictures, stuff, we now... we now have cow pictures. cat _ stuff, we now... we now have cow pictures, cat pictures _ stuff, we now... we now have cow pictures, cat pictures of _ stuff, we now... we now have cow pictures, cat pictures of cumin. . pictures, cat pictures of cumin. people could have done it... i like to use this — people could have done it... i like to use this as _ people could have done it... i like to use this as a _ people could have done it... i like to use this as a metaphor, - to use this as a metaphor, artificial intelligence and farming is a huge opportunity, a massive opportunity, not only for people to have more time to do the great things about animal welfare better, robots cleaning things up but actually artificial intelligence and farming is a huge area, haven't got time to go into it now but i love the fact there is positives from the couege the fact there is positives from the college is already, and the final gentleman talking about what people might call... the acronyms are not important by the idea that you have this kind of supercomputer and in super intelligence they can do almost anything, i don't think we

are too far away from it, it could be in several years as other folk are saying, there are more unicorn mullions $1 billion companies in the space than ever before, the things happening almost every day, i read a book about it recently, it's insane how quickly it is happening to of the big question is will it take people's jobs. the big question is will it take people'sjobs. as in the the big question is will it take people's jobs. as in the example of the former, that's great. somebody using ai will take yourjob, it won't be the ai, because ai is a tool that allows you to become superhuman with productivity. so, for example, you could argue from a marketing point of view, i know my job will be replaced if i'm writing

blogs and things, the machine can do it 100 times quicker, can it do it with my new ones? know, but then i become the editor of the blogs it creates. sojust like become the editor of the blogs it creates. so just like the first lady was talking about, they worked out it did not do great is, actually for another company i run, we realise this are what you can use is with gpt for you can train a dataset binder and actually it learns and starts asking better questions, which is what a lot of the ai therapy bots are now doing. you just have to teach it. therapy bots are now doing. you 'ust have to teach it.�* have to teach it. beautifully explained- _ have to teach it. beautifully explained. be _ have to teach it. beautifully explained. be as _ have to teach it. beautifully explained. be as brief - have to teach it. beautifully explained. be as brief as i have to teach it. beautifully. explained. be as brief as you have to teach it. beautifully - explained. be as brief as you can any really human way. tell us as much as you can in the relatively short space of time, you're talking about chat gpt as well, tells more.

yes, i produce e—books on technology, different from a journalist, stuff i rate makes businesses by extremely expensive technology. in the past few months alone, chatgpt now does about 80% of my writing. i actually sent a message written by chatgpt to your colleagues that was for what ear than i was when i was out for a walk, but my quick takeaway is, i think the things that are going to pose the biggest challenge aren't as individual tool such as chatgpt, is when you get different tools with different skill sets that talk to each other, and when you get them to talk to each other, eventually you are getting red of their limitations

—— and getting ones with different skill sets to accomplish different tasks. it will change the world, it is changing the world, but you need to be very good at giving it instructions so it knows what to do. just like if you're going to ask an architect to draw your house, you won't get exactly what you one if you just say can i have a house, please? but if you say i want one with this many bedrooms and this feature, you will get a betterjob. some people call it prompt engineering. that will become a skill. people should learn how to ask, how to deal with... s. a skill. people should learn how to ask, how to deal with. .. ask, how to dealwith... s, a basic computer— ask, how to dealwith... s, a basic computer skill _ ask, how to dealwith... s, a basic computer skill but _ ask, how to dealwith... s, a basic computer skill but an _ ask, how to dealwith... s, a basic computer skill but an evolved - ask, how to dealwith... s, a basic| computer skill but an evolved one.

my computer skill but an evolved one. my goodness, charlotte, as quick as you can because i need to speak to kate bell from the tuc to round it all up. i will interrupt you a minute and half so say you can. iii. minute and half so say you can. hi, that's fine- — minute and half so say you can. hi, that's fine- i _ minute and half so say you can. h ., that's fine. i get lots of chat about marketing and i'm in marketing and we started using chatgpt, particularly where previously we had journalists or pr sort of copywriters, sort of done away with all of them because it is so much easierjust to do it myself, i know the business, no time trying to say and put different article sources into chatgpt and say write me a blog on this and get something in two minutes, higher quality, more relevant and less cost. and i think part of me, i've got the sense of feeling very bad about what i'm doing, because i know i'm depriving other people of work where we've

spent a lot of money with them in the past, and i think if you put that en masse, that becomes a very big problem very quickly and how do you manage that over time? hope big problem very quickly and how do you manage that over time? how do we mana . e you manage that over time? how do we manage that — you manage that over time? how do we manage that over _ you manage that over time? how do we manage that over time? _ you manage that over time? how do we manage that over time? this _ you manage that over time? how do we manage that over time? this is - manage that over time? this is perfect, this is worked out so well anyway that al could never have done. you say the world of work in the future and preserving jobs, what a point to bring in. a representative from the tuc, kate bell. you havejust less than representative from the tuc, kate bell. you have just less than three minutes but i'm sure you've got those to put in and you can do it. good morning. those to put in and you can do it. good morning-— those to put in and you can do it. good mornint. ., ., good morning. good morning, thanks much for having _ good morning. good morning, thanks much for having us _ good morning. good morning, thanks much for having us and _ good morning. good morning, thanks much for having us and it _ good morning. good morning, thanks much for having us and it has - good morning. good morning, thanks much for having us and it has been i much for having us and it has been really interesting to listen to the conversation so far. i think one of the things we think about with the kind of growth of ai is a truly important we focus on what is happening now, notjust the kind of theoretical what might happen in the future. so lots of people are seeing ai affect theirjobs. some of them might be losing work but many more

are seeing may be increased surveillance, may be decisions being made about their work by automated decision—making whereas previously it would have been made by human, that might be about hiring, might even be about firing, and worryingly, lots and lots of people don't actually know where ai is being used in their workplace, so one of the things we've been asking government to look at is what are the safeguards for how this is use that work? do you have a right to know when ai is being used in your workplace? do you have a right to be consulted and when it is used in your workplace? we think we need to focus on those problems about the now, as well as of course thinking about how technology may change how we work in the future. mr; about how technology may change how we work in the future.— we work in the future. my goodness, ou did we work in the future. my goodness, you did that — we work in the future. my goodness, you did that absolutely _ we work in the future. my goodness, you did that absolutely brilliantly. i you did that absolutely brilliantly. should we be optimistic? where are the otherjobs coming from? to quick ones for you. i the otherjobs coming from? to quick ones for you-— ones for you. i think we can be optimistic- _ ones for you. i think we can be optimistic. what _ ones for you. i think we can be optimistic. what we've - ones for you. i think we can be optimistic. what we've seen i ones for you. i think we can be optimistic. what we've seen in i ones for you. i think we can be - optimistic. what we've seen in the pastis optimistic. what we've seen in the past is that technology can improve

the way we work, make work safer, make it healthier, can even make it more enjoyable by routine housing kind of data entry tasks that were not providing people with job satisfaction, and we have created newjobs, ai designers, we've heard from some of them today, but we need to do that with people. it can also make us richer, technology generally has improved productivity. the make us richer, technology generally has improved productivity.— has improved productivity. the tuc re . uires has improved productivity. the tuc requires emotional _ has improved productivity. the tuc requires emotional intelligence, i has improved productivity. the tuc requires emotional intelligence, to | requires emotional intelligence, to be negation skills, what is the kate bell of the future going to be doing? i bell of the future going to be doint ? ~ ., , ., ., doing? i think we are still going to need to talk— doing? i think we are still going to need to talk to _ doing? i think we are still going to need to talk to people _ doing? i think we are still going to need to talk to people because i doing? i think we are still going to need to talk to people because we are a democratic organisation, what we say depends on what our members tell us and i think you need that human—to—human interaction. you know, maybe i'll be dictating what i say to the ai radio presenter but i don't think so, i think we want to hearfrom humans and i think humans over time have used their creativity

to find new tasks and place to make work more for filling, but i think it is really important that it does reward us all, notjust a few tech billionaires and we need a lot of change if we are going to get to that place. change if we are going to get to that place-— change if we are going to get to that lace. ., ., , . ., ., ., that place. fantastic, what a great rante of that place. fantastic, what a great range of colours _ that place. fantastic, what a great range of colours and _ that place. fantastic, what a great range of colours and experts. -- i range of colours and experts. —— callers. but there are dark sides to humanity. knives — can we end the violence? knife crime. "this violence has to stop, carrying weapons has to stop." the words of the mum of khayri maclean, a 15—year—old boy stabbed to death after he was ambushed outside his school in west yorkshire. the two teenagers responsible have been jailed for life. in court khayri's mum, charlie mclean, gave a harrowing account of how she rushed to the scene after hearing khayri had been injured. she described how she watched "helplessly" as paramedics fought to save her son's life, and said, "no parent

should have to contemplate this, let alone witness it." the fear of knives at the school gate is one shared by many young people and their parents. what the hell is going on? the highest level of knife crime offences is in the west midlands. more than a 100 incidents a week in yorkshire and north lincolnshire. what's it like where you live? let's discuss something that continues to be a problem throughout the uk. deena campbell has the news.

the smiths�* bassist andy rourke has died. he was 59 and had pancreatic cancer. his former band—matejohnny marr announced the news on twitter, saying he will always be remembered as a kind and beautiful soul by those who knew him. the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelensky, is expected to address world leaders injapan at the g7 summit. the uk has anounced fresh sanctions against russia — including a ban on imports of russian diamonds and some metals. the government has announced a £1 billion plan to support the uk's microchip industry — a sector that's crucial for making technology products. the ten year scheme focuses on the design and devolpment of chips, rather than manufacturing them. a photo agency that took pictures of the duke and duchess of sussex during what the couple said was a dangerous car chase has refused to hand over the images to them. backgrid told bbc news it's rejected a legal demand to share all the material taken over several hours in new york city on tuesday night.

the death of 15—year—old khayri mclean just the latest in a tragic litany of murders due to knife crime. khayri's mother, charlie, appeared outside court alongside detective constable lee swift, who read out a statement on her behalf. i now ask myself what has this achieved, what has my son died for? nobody has won in the situation. i have lost a child, other parents have lost a child, other parents have lost a child, other parents have lost two children who committed this offence and are now in prison. this violence has to stop, carrying weapons, especially knights, has to

stop. weapons, especially knights, has to sto -. . ., , weapons, especially knights, has to sto. . ' :: , weapons, especially knights, has to sto. . 'ii' ., stop. knife crime was 9096 in a decade in _ stop. knife crime was 9096 in a decade in yorkshire _ stop. knife crime was 9096 in a decade in yorkshire and - stop. knife crime was 9096 in a i decade in yorkshire and northern lincolnshire from 2012 to 22 —— rose 90%. more than 100 serious knife crimes committed every week in yorkshire and north lincolnshire and in the year ended march 2022 there were around 65,000 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument in england and wales, excluding greater manchester police force, this was 9% higher than in 2021, 36% higher than in 2010, 2011. homicides in the year ended march 2020 261 using a sharp instrument including knives. the 2020 261 using a sharp instrument including knives.— including knives. the bbc investigative _ including knives. the bbc investigative reporter - including knives. the bbc- investigative reporter annabeal including knives. the bbc— investigative reporter annabeal deas spent a year at a school making a

series examining county lines gangs. what did you encounter and learn? so much, it was a complete leap out of my everyday life when i spent a year in this— my everyday life when i spent a year in this community and i encountered things— in this community and i encountered things i_ in this community and i encountered things i genuinely could never have imagined — things i genuinely could never have imagined. at first i tried to keep abreast— imagined. at first i tried to keep abreast of— imagined. at first i tried to keep abreast of the incidents going on in this very— abreast of the incidents going on in this very small area just a few square — this very small area just a few square miles. stabbings, nonfatal stabbings, shootings, people letting off shotguns, fire bombs through the doors _ off shotguns, fire bombs through the doors of— off shotguns, fire bombs through the doors of houses, violence tragically was really— doors of houses, violence tragically was really an everyday event, quite serious _ was really an everyday event, quite serious violence, and it was inevitable young people were going to get _ inevitable young people were going to get caught up in this. i was looking — to get caught up in this. i was looking specifically at the impact of county — looking specifically at the impact of county lines drugs gangs and grooming local children in the area, particularly — grooming local children in the area, particularly children who did not have _ particularly children who did not have much money and were very

susceptible to office of designer tracksuits or a new pair of nikkei trainers — tracksuits or a new pair of nikkei trainers they could never possibly afford _ trainers they could never possibly afford -- — trainers they could never possibly afford -- a — trainers they could never possibly afford —— a new pair of nike trainers _ afford —— a new pair of nike trainers. they were groomed by these county— trainers. they were groomed by these county lines _ trainers. they were groomed by these county lines gangs who would give them _ county lines gangs who would give them a _ county lines gangs who would give them a knife, arm them so they could protect— them a knife, arm them so they could protect themselves against people who might steal drugs from them, and carrying _ who might steal drugs from them, and carrying a _ who might steal drugs from them, and carrying a knife has become a really everyday— carrying a knife has become a really everyday thing for many children in this area _ everyday thing for many children in this area whether they are groomed or not _ this area whether they are groomed or not. when i was there i also went to a local— or not. when i was there i also went to a local primary school where i did no— to a local primary school where i did no recording but i learned that a seven—year—old was found with a knife _ a seven—year—old was found with a knife in _ a seven—year—old was found with a knife in their— a seven—year—old was found with a knife in their stock in the playground. i am sure they did not know _ playground. i am sure they did not know what — playground. i am sure they did not know what to do with a knife, i am sure _ know what to do with a knife, i am sure they— know what to do with a knife, i am sure they had no intention of using it -- _ sure they had no intention of using it -- a _ sure they had no intention of using it -- a knife — sure they had no intention of using it —— a knife in the sock. it had almost — it —— a knife in the sock. it had almost become a fashion accessory. children— almost become a fashion accessory. children were told time and time again. _ children were told time and time again. if— children were told time and time again, if you carry a knife it is far more _ again, if you carry a knife it is far more likely to be used against

you, _ far more likely to be used against you. don't— far more likely to be used against you, don't do it, you are engaging yourself, — you, don't do it, you are engaging yourself, but overwhelmingly children — yourself, but overwhelmingly children would say to me they have a knife. _ children would say to me they have a knife. i_ children would say to me they have a knife. i need — children would say to me they have a knife, i need to be taken seriously and come — knife, i need to be taken seriously and come back at them so i need a knife. _ and come back at them so i need a knife. it— and come back at them so i need a knife, it spiralled from there. so knife, it spiralled from there. sc there knife, it spiralled from there. there is a knife, it spiralled from there. ’sr there is a fashion accessory and there is a fashion accessory and there is a fashion accessory and there is the arms race, they believe it to be a matter of self defence? exactly, they think it is self defence. they do not know what will happen when they are out on the street. some children will say i am in a gang, they think it is something they have chosen but i personally do not believe that a child can be in a can all be a gangster, the children i encountered had been groomed. —— children can be in a gander all be a gangster. they might be scared and not know what is happening, they see so many violent acts happening that they need to protect themselves, they feel. they know they should not be carrying it but the anti—knife crime message

does not seem to be getting through. i wonder why. i does not seem to be getting through. i wonder why-— i wonder why. i think they have 'ust seen so i wonder why. i think they have 'ust so many fl i wonder why. i think they have 'ust seen so many children, i i wonder why. i think they have 'ust seen so many children, adults, i seen so many children, adults, behaving in a way where police have not necessarily assisted them as quickly as they might like. if you go to the police, people might call you a snitch, you might end up in further trouble. children i have spoken to have said it is me on my own, people might not be there for me in my time of need and this is howl me in my time of need and this is how i will protect myself. it is not right but that is what is happening. and i right in saying that you came across one of khayri's killers when you were there? i across one of khayri's killers when you were there?— across one of khayri's killers when you were there? i worked at north huddersfield _ you were there? i worked at north huddersfield trust _ you were there? i worked at north huddersfield trust school, - you were there? i worked at north huddersfield trust school, which i you were there? i worked at north huddersfield trust school, which is where khayri went to school, and

where khayri went to school, and where jakele pusey, who pleaded guilty and was sentenced to life with a minimum of 16 years yesterday, i metjakele when he was 11, he was in a group in the school for children who needed extra support, they were of concern to the teachers, perhaps because of some concern but not serious concern, they were still attending school, they were still attending school, they had not been sent to a pupil referral units, it was an in—house pupil referral units, if you will. jakele was there, he was a typical 11—year—old boy, really. sometimes he was cheeky and outspoken, and at other times he was much moodier, one thing we have always talked about was marcus rashford, i think he saw them as coming from a similar pace but marcus rashford was from quite a

deprived part of manchester and jakele thought it rashford could make it out, maybe i can too, he spoke a lot about playing football and wanting to escape its area and become a famous footballer like rashford. when i said i work near the bbc sport studios his eyes lit up the bbc sport studios his eyes lit up and he asked me if i ever got to see manchester united play, which i had, and he was excited to hear about that. i recorded to him in a few times with a view to him taking part in a podcast i was doing call hope high which was looking at county lines and why children were carrying lives but we did not pursue the interview, jakele changed his mind, as was his right, but i got to know him a bed, which went to his house, i met his parents, he lived very near school that he decided it was not something he wanted to be part of, which was fine, but i could

never have guessed this would happen. he was not as smooth sailing child, he was not by any means a straight a child but you could never predict he will be sentenced to murder a few weeks later. the week after i left the area, things took a real turn for him —— sentenced to murderfew years later. real turn for him —— sentenced to murder few years later. somebody i had been working closely within the area asked me, have you heard what has happened? i saw something on the news about a 12—year—old boy who had been shot, he was jakele he was shot at a community hall about five minutes away from both his home at his school, it is a place that should be safe for young people, there was a playground and playing fields, people can get something to eat, it is a community centre, but jakele was shot about sustained quite serious injuries which had a

hugely detrimental impact on him, i believe, and understandably he became a very, very angry young man. to be shot at any age is incredibly traumatic, i can't imagine what that must have been like for him. his mother spoke to people and said he can't sleep, he is very angry, very scared. obviously that is no excuse whatsoever for what has happened, but i think it provides a fair bit of context. he was in his area, in this environment were violent incidents were occurring over time, he was just incidents were occurring over time, he wasjust 12, he incidents were occurring over time, he wasjust12, he had been shot. i can't imagine what support he got after that but it was not affected because three years later he went on to kill khayri mclean. that because three years later he went on to kill khayri mclean.— to kill khayri mclean. that is such an interesting _ to kill khayri mclean. that is such an interesting point _ to kill khayri mclean. that is such an interesting point about - to kill khayri mclean. that is such an interesting point about role i an interesting point about role models, marcus rashford, it shows us how important it is to have great role models like marcus rashford,

such a positive role model and an incredible man. sophie simpson, co—founder of conscious youth, an organisation in huddersfield. you knew khayri and you know his mum. how dreadful this whole thing is, how tragic for her. you cannot imagine what she is going through. she sounds really strong, she has said some amazing things too, powerful. it said some amazing things too, -owerful. , ., ., ., ., powerful. it is a resonate of what -e of powerful. it is a resonate of what type of woman — powerful. it is a resonate of what type of woman she _ powerful. it is a resonate of what type of woman she is _ powerful. it is a resonate of what type of woman she is and - powerful. it is a resonate of what type of woman she is and the - type of woman she is and the strength and the way she has carried herself the whole way through has been unbelievable. all i can do is say well done, i don't think i could do what she has. i knew all the young man, ifi do what she has. i knew all the young man, if i was honest, i have known them all growing up and seen them all in different capacities. so

here from annabel was interesting, there is never an excuse but there is a context? latte there is never an excuse but there is a context?— is a context? we have to look at society as _ is a context? we have to look at society as a _ is a context? we have to look at society as a whole _ is a context? we have to look at society as a whole and - is a context? we have to look at society as a whole and not - is a context? we have to look at society as a whole and notjust i society as a whole and notjust concentrate on what has happened in huddersfield, this has happened up and down the country in regards to how young people feel safe, the culture they think they need to live in, in regards to parenting and the facilities that are not available for young people. there are a number of young people who have obstacles in their lives.— in their lives. how much is this about gangs? _ in their lives. how much is this about gangs? l— in their lives. how much is this about gangs? i think _ in their lives. how much is this about gangs? i think that - in their lives. how much is this about gangs? i think that is i in their lives. how much is this. about gangs? i think that is part in their lives. how much is this - about gangs? i think that is part of it, there about gangs? i think that is part of it. there are _ about gangs? i think that is part of it, there are gangs _ about gangs? i think that is part of it, there are gangs out _ about gangs? i think that is part of it, there are gangs out there - about gangs? i think that is part of it, there are gangs out there but i it, there are gangs out there but there is a minority, we cannot be saying every young person is in a gang because they are not, a minority of young people get caught

up minority of young people get caught up in this. latte minority of young people get caught u- in this. ~ ., minority of young people get caught u- in this. . . , up in this. we have 'ust lost the line. do up in this. we have 'ust lost the line. he theyh up in this. we have 'ust lost the line. do they have _ up in this. we have just lost the line. do they have support - up in this. we have just lost the line. do they have support at i up in this. we have just lost the - line. do they have support at home, do they have — line. do they have support at home, do they have that _ line. do they have support at home, do they have that network? - line. do they have support at home, do they have that network? there i line. do they have support at home, | do they have that network? there are lots of questions we had to be asking. lots of questions we had to be askint. ., , ~ lots of questions we had to be askint. . ., asking. let me ask about khayri, what was he _ asking. let me ask about khayri, what was he like? _ asking. let me ask about khayri, what was he like? a _ asking. let me ask about khayri, what was he like? a beautiful- asking. let me ask about khayri, i what was he like? a beautiful soul. every time — what was he like? a beautiful soul. every time i _ what was he like? a beautiful soul. every time i and — what was he like? a beautiful soul. every time i and asked _ what was he like? a beautiful soul. every time i and asked that - what was he like? a beautiful soul. every time i and asked that i - what was he like? a beautiful soul. every time i and asked that i just i every time i and asked that ijust think that he was funny, he was a young man i would see regularly going into work, he would be like, you will write, miss? he would always have something funny to say, he was always respectful. his friends loved him, he was loved by many, he was a lovely young man, to hear what has happened to him has broken a lot of heart. loath? hear what has happened to him has broken a lot of heart.— broken a lot of heart. why did it ha-aen? broken a lot of heart. why did it happen? i _ broken a lot of heart. why did it happen? i wish _ broken a lot of heart. why did it happen? iwish i— broken a lot of heart. why did it happen? i wish i knew - broken a lot of heart. why did it happen? i wish i knew the - broken a lot of heart. why did it i

happen? i wish i knew the answer. the two young _ happen? i wish i knew the answer. the two young men _ happen? i wish i knew the answer. the two young men who _ happen? i wish i knew the answer. the two young men who have - happen? i wish i knew the answer. | the two young men who have done this, i would say it is totally out of character for them. they are not bad boys, i cannot portray they are bad boys, i cannot portray they are bad boys. it bad boys, i cannot portray they are bad bo s. ., , bad boys, i cannot portray they are bad bo s. ., , ., bad boys, i cannot portray they are bad bo s. . , ., ., bad boys, i cannot portray they are bad boys-_ i i bad boys. it was a brutal attack. i understand _ bad boys. it was a brutal attack. i understand it _ bad boys. it was a brutal attack. i understand it was _ bad boys. it was a brutal attack. i understand it was planned. - bad boys. it was a brutal attack. i understand it was planned. it - bad boys. it was a brutal attack. i understand it was planned. it is i understand it was planned. it is senseless, a senseless, irrelevant matter, i am guessing, that young people seem to take little things as they disrespect is what i see when i read the news, they make it into a big thing. in huddersfield this is the first murder of a young person we have had so it is shocking, i don't think they leave the seriousness of what they are getting into —— i don't think they understand the seriousness of what they are getting into. loath?

understand the seriousness of what they are getting into.— they are getting into. why don't they are getting into. why don't they understand _ they are getting into. why don't they understand the _ they are getting into. why don't - they understand the consequences, giving it would be an inevitability that people would know they have done this and they would be arranged? why don't they understand it means prison for a long time and a blighted future for them? this feature could _ a blighted future for them? this feature could be _ a blighted future for them? try 3 feature could be a better option for them. they might think prison life is not that bad. secondly, they hadn't seen anybody that has been locked up for murder, people are stabbed and they get locked up, they come out and they see it as a war wound, they are not seeing it amounting to murder like they have now. whether they will learn, i don't know why they do it. all we can do is keep asking them. i had spoken to other young people and

they can't answer that question, they can't answer that question, they don't understand how they have got to this situation. if they don't understand how they have got to this situation.— got to this situation. if you could sta a got to this situation. if you could stay a little _ got to this situation. if you could stay a little longer, _ got to this situation. if you could stay a little longer, that - got to this situation. if you could stay a little longer, that would i got to this situation. if you could | stay a little longer, that would be amazing. annabeal deas spent a year at the school making a series examining the impact of county lines. welcome to howthey in lincoln, and sarah in west london —— welcome to harvey in london. i will go to sarah first. we are going through this life experience with my grandson, this text says, being threatened from a boy expelled from his school and now his brothers and mates are waiting outside of the school when they come out. he has a younger brother in the same school, they are in packages, very scary. my daughter is picking him up and dropping him off so he is not hurt.

there is security in the school, not enough because there are 1500 teenagers, far too many in one school. police need to do more. they say they are dealing with it but not quick enough, ifeel sick say they are dealing with it but not quick enough, i feel sick to my stomach. sarah, tell me about your 16—year—old son? my stomach. sarah, tell me about your 16-year-old son?— 16-year-old son? my son was (inaudible) _ (inaudible) by some kids in his school. they showed him, because he is my only son, that they could be his family and support. apparently the boy is a leader of this gun, he had to 21 inch knife, as my son described it.

he asked him to do illegal stuff, to take drugs from one location to another by threatening him with the knife. he had to do this. (inaudible). they recorded a video to show others that if they do not follow instructions, they will do the same thing. the video was sent by a group account to a lot of students. my my son was offered a lot of money

not to do the illegal stuff again and be protected from this gun. the school (inaudible) and the school had previous information from that boy. they said my son is buying drugs from them. so my son is buying drugs from them. so my son is buying drugs from them. so my son (inaudible) started to cry and say this boy is carrying a knife all the time and threatening me with a knife, and other students in the school have been witnessing the situation and he had to pay him the money. the school and policejust had to pay him the money. the school and police just advised had to pay him the money. the school and policejust advised us had to pay him the money. the school and police just advised us to had to pay him the money. the school and policejust advised us to keep my son at home, never go out in the

street, never use any transportation. this is a very bad experience, but also when i was informed by the police, they left me for 12 days without any further information than my son is being threatened to be killed by another boy. the officer went on holiday for 12 days. boy. the officer went on holiday for 12 da s. . , boy. the officer went on holiday for 12 da 5, ., , , boy. the officer went on holiday for 12 da s. ., , , , ., ., ., 12 days. sarah, this is similar to a terri int 12 days. sarah, this is similar to a terrifying experience. _ 12 days. sarah, this is similar to a terrifying experience. i _ 12 days. sarah, this is similar to a terrifying experience. i want - 12 days. sarah, this is similar to a terrifying experience. i want to i 12 days. sarah, this is similar to a l terrifying experience. i want to put a couple of those points to annabel, what you are going through is awful. annabel, obviously there was a drugs situation, it was not the greatest line that sarah was very brave to phone, but also a protection racket going on? phone, but also a protection racket

ttoin on? , ., , going on? yes, when i was in huddersfield _ going on? yes, when i was in huddersfield making - going on? yes, when i was in huddersfield making the - going on? yes, when i was in i huddersfield making the series going on? yes, when i was in - huddersfield making the series there was one young man i came across who was one young man 1 came across who was one young man i came across who was in a really quite serious situation, he had actually been removed from the area for his own safety and sent to a different part of the uk. he became very deeply involved with the county lines drug can who groomed him when he was a young man, he was asked to carry drugs for them as a favour and to few dates later someone robbed him, it was a complete setup and they said now you owe us x amount of money and drugs, you are in our church, you have to work for us. situations like this occurred more regularly than you might think. they would say we will protect and look after you but you have to do this for us because you owe us, so people

found themselves in extraordinary situations when they were very young men which were very hard to get out of hand they were terrified to speak to their families about these situations. schools and teachers could only do so much but it was horrifying for them, it leaves people carrying weapons and acts of horrifying violence.— horrifying violence. annabel deas, thank ou horrifying violence. annabel deas, thank you for— horrifying violence. annabel deas, thank you for speaking _ horrifying violence. annabel deas, thank you for speaking to - horrifying violence. annabel deas, thank you for speaking to us. - horrifying violence. annabel deas, thank you for speaking to us. i - horrifying violence. annabel deas, i thank you for speaking to us. i will come back to you in a minute, sophie, but let's go with luka in romford and sarah in liverpool. sarah? good morning. part of the reason why we are seeing an increase in knife crime, especially over the last 13 years, if anyone has bothered to look, it is the fact we have this present government in its

many, many hats of administration, the many prime ministers we have had, has done nothing but cut to the bone. all of the services we used to support children and young people, funded things like youth clubs and the like and other projects, which kept kids out of the clutches of gangs. i kept kids out of the clutches of tan t s. ., kept kids out of the clutches of t an t s, ., , ., kept kids out of the clutches of ttans. ., ,., , kept kids out of the clutches of ttans. ., , gangs. i had some figures, i looked at this, this — gangs. i had some figures, i looked at this, this is _ gangs. i had some figures, i looked at this, this is not _ gangs. i had some figures, i looked at this, this is not to _ gangs. i had some figures, i looked at this, this is not to be _ gangs. i had some figures, i looked at this, this is not to be political- at this, this is not to be political but this is statistical. these are figures uncovered by the ymca, who knows what another party would have done, but figures uncovered by the ymca reveal the cuts to youth services funding by local authorities in england and wales, i suppose you could say it is pressure on local authorities, 629,000,02018

to 19 compared to 1.6 billion in 2010 to 2011, a real terms decline of 70%, 65, 70%, something like that. the ymca looked at it and discovered that figure, it was reporting to local authority expenditure on youth services. that is quite stark, that is what you are saying? it is quite stark, that is what you are sa int? , , is quite stark, that is what you are saint? , _. ~ is quite stark, that is what you are saint? , ,.,~, saying? it is very stark. i see it every day- _ saying? it is very stark. i see it every day- runs _ saying? it is very stark. i see it every day. runs where - saying? it is very stark. i see it every day. runs where i - saying? it is very stark. i see it every day. runs where i live i saying? it is very stark. i see it i every day. runs where i live with about a two mile radius we have about a two mile radius we have about three boxing clubs. if kids go to boxing clubs, great, but it is mostly lads, and there is one youth club which is weighed down towards

the docks, there is another one further down just before bunghole, which if anyone notices about five miles outside the city centre, opposite where borisjohnson was busy posing when he was busting county lines or whatever couple of years back —— further down just before bank hall. when the services are cut, when the projects close, where will the kids go? they hang around on the streets, twiddling their thumbs. what happens then is that very sophisticated a bail groomed into hanging around with the gangs. —— in a very sophisticated way, they are groomed. they do not realise this. it is like a family

business, the father is involved, we will deal with the branch operation for now, the father is involved in whatever, the older teenagers are involved, the younger ones are at school, they start recruiting their schoolmates. i had seen it happen. in a very sophisticated way they go, turn around it's ours. it is in a very sophisticated way they go, turn around it's ours.— turn around it's ours. it is a friendship _ turn around it's ours. it is a friendship group _ turn around it's ours. it is a friendship group with - turn around it's ours. it is a i friendship group with sinister undertones. look out —— it is affixed away —— in a sophisticated way they go, come and hang out at ours. i way they go, come and hang out at ours. ., , way they go, come and hang out at ours. . , ., , , way they go, come and hang out at ours. ., , ., , , ., ours. i had seen it happen with one small branch _ ours. i had seen it happen with one small branch of _ ours. i had seen it happen with one small branch of criminality - ours. i had seen it happen with one small branch of criminality from - small branch of criminality from what was going on on the street. i hasten to add, this bunch was caught red—handed with panty lines so they are away now. they get involved in criminality, they see what is going on, we have all the money, we have this, they started giving little

favours. i this, they started giving little favours. ., this, they started giving little favours. . ., ., , favours. i am going to bring in luka, the _ favours. i am going to bring in luka, the key _ favours. i am going to bring in luka, the key concept - favours. i am going to bring in luka, the key concept you - favours. i am going to bring in l luka, the key concept you have introduced as the grooming aspect. luka in romford and bianca in london coming up too, danny in london too. luka, what do you think? the coming up too, danny in london too. luka, what do you think?— luka, what do you think? the lady is absolutely right. _ luka, what do you think? the lady is absolutely right. 23 _ luka, what do you think? the lady is absolutely right. 23 years _ luka, what do you think? the lady is absolutely right. 23 years ago - luka, what do you think? the lady is absolutely right. 23 years ago there | absolutely right. 23 years ago there was a _ absolutely right. 23 years ago there was a report from an american police officer— was a report from an american police officer coming over to check out knife _ officer coming over to check out knife crime _ officer coming over to check out knife crime and they said kids on street— knife crime and they said kids on street corners with nothing else to do. street corners with nothing else to do what— street corners with nothing else to do. what has happened since 2000 when _ do. what has happened since 2000 when there was one death, it has escalated — when there was one death, it has escalated 150%, in the last ten years— escalated 150%, in the last ten years it — escalated 150%, in the last ten years it has escalated and it has gone _ years it has escalated and it has gone to— years it has escalated and it has gone to 97%, out of control. —— when damilola _ gone to 97%, out of control. —— when damilola taylor died. the

gone to 9796, out of control. -- when damilola taylor died.— damilola taylor died. the father of damilola taylor died. the father of damilola taylor _ damilola taylor died. the father of damilola taylor was _ damilola taylor died. the father of damilola taylor was wonderful. i damilola taylor died. the father of i damilola taylor was wonderful. yes. it is notjust — damilola taylor was wonderful. yes. it is not just the _ damilola taylor was wonderful. yes. it is notjust the grooming, it is what _ it is notjust the grooming, it is what they— it is notjust the grooming, it is what they are and what they are doing _ what they are and what they are doing and — what they are and what they are doing and when you are in society that is— doing and when you are in society that is the — doing and when you are in society that is the option we are taking, we have groomed and grown knife crime. unfortunately it is not political but the — unfortunately it is not political but the government is taking the wrong _ but the government is taking the wrong approach. we can use tried and tested _ wrong approach. we can use tried and tested methods on a nationwide scale _ tested methods on a nationwide scale i— tested methods on a nationwide scale. i represent a social campaign and i_ scale. i represent a social campaign and i am _ scale. i represent a social campaign and i am presenting this to the croydon— and i am presenting this to the croydon community next week, my first presentation, showing we can invest— first presentation, showing we can invest into — first presentation, showing we can invest into an alternative education system _ invest into an alternative education system and cater for these kids, i call that— system and cater for these kids, i call that the forgotten kids. it has -ot call that the forgotten kids. it has got worse — call that the forgotten kids. it has got worse and worse and worse. we are grooming them by thinking they are grooming them by thinking they are the _ are grooming them by thinking they are the problem are not using girl -- love, _ are the problem are not using girl —— love, guidance and opportunity. we know— —— love, guidance and opportunity. we know what kids want, when i look

at my— we know what kids want, when i look at my report — we know what kids want, when i look at my report i know where it has gone _ at my report i know where it has gone wrong, they have not been given the opportunity. it is gone wrong, they have not been given the opportunity-— the opportunity. it is a conscious choice to stick _ the opportunity. it is a conscious choice to stick a _ the opportunity. it is a conscious choice to stick a knife _ the opportunity. it is a conscious choice to stick a knife into - choice to stick a knife into someone. it choice to stick a knife into someone-— choice to stick a knife into someone. , , ., , ., choice to stick a knife into someone. , , ., ., someone. it is, but that is far down the line. someone. it is, but that is far down the line- i — someone. it is, but that is far down the line. i work _ someone. it is, but that is far down the line. i work in _ someone. it is, but that is far down the line. i work in a _ someone. it is, but that is far down the line. i work in a gym _ someone. it is, but that is far down the line. i work in a gym and - someone. it is, but that is far down the line. i work in a gym and i - someone. it is, but that is far down the line. i work in a gym and i worki the line. i work in a gym and i work with kids _ the line. i work in a gym and i work with kids from prison, 16—year—old kids telling — with kids from prison, 16—year—old kids telling me how badly they decided — kids telling me how badly they decided to catch this guy up but they only— decided to catch this guy up but they only realised five later when he saw _ they only realised five later when he saw the pictures in court that they— he saw the pictures in court that they had — he saw the pictures in court that they had become a monster —— five months _ they had become a monster —— five months later. society has created these _ months later. society has created these kits, — months later. society has created these kits, austerity closed all the youth _ these kits, austerity closed all the youth centre is now, i have a 2018 house _ youth centre is now, i have a 2018 house of — youth centre is now, i have a 2018 house of commons report that shows everything _ house of commons report that shows everything i am saying work because it is all— everything i am saying work because it is all the _ everything i am saying work because it is all the recommendations. we also see _ it is all the recommendations. we also see why it has declined. stop and search— also see why it has declined. stop and search has never helped, it helps _ and search has never helped, it helps to — and search has never helped, it helps to a — and search has never helped, it helps to a point, i'm not knocking it, helps to a point, i'm not knocking it. but— helps to a point, i'm not knocking it. but that — helps to a point, i'm not knocking it, but that it will be hard. we go into schools and put clusters on a

to education. into schools and put clusters on a to education-— to education. brilliant stuff. lnsightful- _ to education. brilliant stuff. insightful. i— to education. brilliant stuff. insightful. i know— to education. brilliant stuff. insightful. i know that. - to education. brilliant stuff. insightful. i know that. letl to education. brilliant stuff. i insightful. i know that. let me ask you the question i asked sophie, you talk to kids who have been in prison all may go to prison and i asked sophie this, you put a knife into another kid outside school or whatever and main them all culling them, why are you not aware that this will mark your life forever? and you will be going to prison? sophie says prison is not that bad sophie says prison is not that had an option, lots of people say prisons need to be tougher but then... you are right but not getting to the source _ you are right but not getting to the source of _ you are right but not getting to the source of it. — you are right but not getting to the source of it, we are building prisons _ source of it, we are building prisons and giving long sentences but we _ prisons and giving long sentences but we all— prisons and giving long sentences but we all know what kids want, i promise — but we all know what kids want, i promise you... but we all know what kids want, i promise you- - -— but we all know what kids want, i promise you... why don't they know that they are — promise you... why don't they know that they are going _ promise you... why don't they know that they are going to _ promise you... why don't they know that they are going to end _ promise you... why don't they know that they are going to end up i promise you... why don't they know that they are going to end up in i that they are going to end up in prison? it that they are going to end up in trison? , ., , ., that they are going to end up in trison? , . , ., ., , prison? it is a state of mind, they have been — prison? it is a state of mind, they have been living _ prison? it is a state of mind, they have been living with _ prison? it is a state of mind, they have been living with a _ prison? it is a state of mind, they have been living with a knife i prison? it is a state of mind, they| have been living with a knife came for 15_ have been living with a knife came for 15 years. — have been living with a knife came for 15 years, some of these kits all they know— for 15 years, some of these kits all they know is negative, so the are

scared _ they know is negative, so the are scared not— they know is negative, so the are scared not to carry a knife, scared to come _ scared not to carry a knife, scared to come out — scared not to carry a knife, scared to come out their house, the mental health _ to come out their house, the mental health we — to come out their house, the mental health... we are the adults that have _ health... we are the adults that have not— health... we are the adults that have not the same day system to facilitate — have not the same day system to facilitate these kids. it's so simple _ facilitate these kids. it's so simple. one education system i could show would _ simple. one education system i could show would save billions for the country — show would save billions for the country because the decline is causing — country because the decline is causing billions of pounds, this year— causing billions of pounds, this year will— causing billions of pounds, this year will cost £6 billion in london 'ust year will cost £6 billion in london just to _ year will cost £6 billion in london just to fight knife crime on the 2018— just to fight knife crime on the 2018 house of commons report. with those, _ 2018 house of commons report. with those, i_ 2018 house of commons report. with those, i could build 60 academies in london. _ those, i could build 60 academies in london. two — those, i could build 60 academies in london, two in each borough, and facilitate _ london, two in each borough, and facilitate not because of the street but future — facilitate not because of the street but future olympians because it's -ot but future olympians because it's got to— but future olympians because it's got to be — but future olympians because it's got to be a positive society promotes, so we've got to show them that hard _ promotes, so we've got to show them that hard to _ promotes, so we've got to show them that hard to believe they are broken. _ that hard to believe they are broken, they are scared, and they are also— broken, they are scared, and they are also looking at the corruption, so they— are also looking at the corruption, so they are — are also looking at the corruption, so they are also thinking, and then when _ so they are also thinking, and then when they— so they are also thinking, and then when they pick up a phone, they are looking _ when they pick up a phone, they are looking at— when they pick up a phone, they are looking at an atom bomb. this is a crazy— looking at an atom bomb. this is a crazy world, — looking at an atom bomb. this is a crazy world, it is never got so bad. i'm desperate to do this because i want _ i'm desperate to do this because i want to— i'm desperate to do this because i want to save this generation, but to be honest— want to save this generation, but to be honest with you, this is how it

works. _ be honest with you, this is how it works. 500 — be honest with you, this is how it works, 500 academies across this country. _ works, 500 academies across this country, they build our communities, we bring _ country, they build our communities, we bring the — country, they build our communities, we bring the brothers and sisters in after school, like i used to, i was after school, like i used to, i was a kid _ after school, like i used to, i was a kid from — after school, like i used to, i was a kid from islington i was to have a lot of— a kid from islington i was to have a lot of fights — a kid from islington i was to have a lot of fights and that's where this comes— lot of fights and that's where this comes from, no belonging, and i feel the belonging on the streets are so dangerous. when i was in a sling thing _ dangerous. when i was in a sling thing i_ dangerous. when i was in a sling thing i thought my life out but... 0intnrent— thing i thought my life out but... ointment did you have been i've? no, no knives— ointment did you have been i've? no, no knives were used then, i'm older, i no knives were used then, i'm older, i knew— no knives were used then, i'm older, i knew a _ no knives were used then, i'm older, i knew a time — no knives were used then, i'm older, i knew a time before knives. we knew one kid _ i knew a time before knives. we knew one kid in— i knew a time before knives. we knew one kid in tottenham that had a knife _ one kid in tottenham that had a knife and — one kid in tottenham that had a knife and we thought he was weird. we will— knife and we thought he was weird. we will never forget them because we were all— we will never forget them because we were all scared of him. we all thought— were all scared of him. we all thought he was mental, to a point, because _ thought he was mental, to a point, because you don't fight with knives, but that— because you don't fight with knives, but that was a long time ago. we forgotten — but that was a long time ago. we forgotten these kids on the street since _ forgotten these kids on the street since 2000, so that report 2002, youngest— since 2000, so that report 2002, youngest getting croydon died... and nothina youngest getting croydon died... nothing has youngest getting croydon died... jifuc nothing has got better. youngest getting croydon died... fific nothing has got better. i'm going youngest getting croydon died... elic nothing has got better. i'm going to have to go to the news, but that was packed tight with brilliant

perceptions and insight and knowledge and experience, thank you very much indeed. working in this area. more to come, how do we end knife crime? get in touch. and here is the news. some breaking news, 21—year—old edward little from brighton has pleaded guilty at the ability plotting a gun attack at speakers' corner in hyde park in london. we'll bring you more than that when we get it. andy rourke, the bassist for the smiths, has died at the age of 59. guitaristjohnny marr confirmed that his former bandmate died after a long illness with pancreatic cancer. the ukrainian president is expected to attend the g7 summit which is taking place in japan. earlier rishi sunak announced new sanctions against russia

including a uk ban on importing diamonds, copper, aluminium and nickel. the government says it will give more than six—million disabled people a one—off cost of living payment of £150. ministers say it's to recognise extra costs they may face. but, campaigners say the money will only cover a week's worth of bills. the sunday times rich list has revealed ed sheeran, adele and harry styles are among the uk's wealthiest people under the age of 35. all three musicians were listed as having wealth higher than £150 million! uefa's disciplinary body say they'll review reports from the incidents at az alkmaar last night before deciding any action. a group of dutch supporters tried to attack an area reserved for guests west ham players — it's after the hammers booked their spot in the europa conf league final with a 3—1 aggregate win. alkmaar have yet to make any official comment. before next month's final — west ham host leeds in the pl — leeds boss sam allardyce says their opponents may be more

tentative because of that — leeds must not lose to move out of the bottom 3. elsewhere — brentford boss thomas frank says there's no doubt that ivan toney�*s future is with the club after he was banned for 8 months by the fa this week for breaking betting rules. frank says toney is sad and disappointed about the situation — he adds 'we will do everything we can to support him and be aware of the mental health of it. of course he has made some mistakes.�* and rory mcllory says he'll be fine after fighting illness in the first round of the us pga championship — he's 1 over par but only 5 shots off bryson dechambeau's lead. we'll have updates to come this afternoon with some players yet to finish their opening round.

the world this fast moving and can be confusing. so let's talk about it. how do we tackle knife crime, how do we end knife crime? knife crime campaigner allison, we end knife crime? knife crime campaignerallison, good we end knife crime? knife crime campaigner allison, good morning. and we've gotjack in london who has been imprisoned for knife crime, thank you for getting in touch. bianca in london. let me go to jack. alison, i would like to listen to you talk to jack as well, because you talk to jack as well, because you both know so much about this. jack, tell me about your experience and why did you end up prison? for

me it was and why did you end up prison? fr?" me it was more of a case were growing up with people my age who started to see what everyone else dead, were influenced by the same things, people are influenced by wading balaclavas on your head, for example, the normal accessory of fashion right now, for some reason thatis fashion right now, for some reason that is normal and when people go out and use balaclavas, go around stabbing people, questioning why these people even have them on but in broad daylight you are actually allowed to walk around with them on your head. on top of that, on your actual radio, as you hear someone is being released that has explicit content, such as stabbing people and other stuff, content, such as stabbing people and otherstuff, i content, such as stabbing people and other stuff, i don't get it. but back then as a kid you kind of glorify that, along with the same other things you do like playing grand theft auto on your playstation and you link that to seeing everyone around you in these deprived areas committing crime for money and you start to think it's ok. so when you

do do it, you get in trouble and you go to prison and when you go to prison, there is no rehabilitation, you go there, you can get playstation, xbox, you have your own close, do you want all day. you literally go there and can order all this goods and stuff, people live a comfy life in prison, there is no rehabilitation whatsoever. so when it comes to talking about why nave came happens, where gang stern it comes to talking about why nave came happens, where gang stem from, it all stems from there being nothing to do for kids, for example, the public funding is gone. you've got the fact that obviously like i said about the drill music, that is now put on live radio. this said about the drill music, that is now put on live radio.— now put on live radio. this is so important. _ now put on live radio. this is so important, lots _ now put on live radio. this is so important, lots of _ now put on live radio. this is so important, lots of people - now put on live radio. this is so important, lots of people listen j now put on live radio. this is so i important, lots of people listen to drill music without becoming killers. {lit drill music without becoming killers. , , ,. drill music without becoming killers. , , , . killers. of course. drill music as well, killers. of course. drill music as well. peeple _ killers. of course. drill music as well, people might _ killers. of course. drill music as

well, people might argue - killers. of course. drill music as well, people might argue it - killers. of course. drill music as well, people might argue it is i killers. of course. drill music as| well, people might argue it is an artistic expression of reality in the inner city, so there is plenty of examples of that through history, art reflecting life, but you are saying art, review want to call at that, does determine how people behave? that's a massive argument, a massive area. behave? that's a massive argument, a massive area-— massive area. what is the family context? tells _ massive area. what is the family context? tells about _ massive area. what is the family context? tells about your- massive area. what is the family context? tells about your life . context? tells about your life growing up. context? tells about your life growing unm— context? tells about your life growing no— context? tells about your life curowin u. ~ , i, growing up. mine was pretty stable. i was 'ust growing up. mine was pretty stable. i wasjust around _ growing up. mine was pretty stable. i wasjust around the _ growing up. mine was pretty stable. i wasjust around the wrong - growing up. mine was pretty stable. i wasjust around the wrong people. | i was just around the wrong people. that is literally and you in wrong people, and when i say about the drill music, i don't mean it is terrible that people make music, it is artistic that people can do that, but the words they use with that poetry, that is not normal. they are talking about stabbing people down on the back, it is not normal in any sense. ~ , , ., on the back, it is not normal in any sense. ~ , , , on the back, it is not normal in any sense. , ,,

sense. why did you stab this person? part in. sense. why did you stab this person? part in- why — sense. why did you stab this person? part in- why did _ sense. why did you stab this person? part in. why did you _ sense. why did you stab this person? part in. why did you stab _ sense. why did you stab this person? part in. why did you stab this - part in. why did you stab this erson? part in. why did you stab this person? i _ part in. why did you stab this person? i didn't _ part in. why did you stab this person? i didn't stab - part in. why did you stab thisj person? i didn't stab anyone, part in. why did you stab this. person? i didn't stab anyone, i part in. why did you stab this - person? i didn't stab anyone, ijust person? i didn't stab anyone, i 'ust used to have — person? i didn't stab anyone, i 'ust used to have knives i person? i didn't stab anyone, i 'ust used to have knives and i person? i didn't stab anyone, i 'ust used to have knives and i i person? i didn't stab anyone, ijust. used to have knives and i committed crimes with them, so obviously i knew that was an intimidation factor, so for me i took that route, but i did what i did because i was around the same people, i started doing what they'd done. i'm not saying everybody because of not putting everybody in the same category but the majority of people nowadays let a lot of things influence them too much. i think especially the social media, it has way too much of an influence on young people's lives. literally kids watch one little thing nowadays, take a little bit of information and is automatically true because social media says it. irate is automatically true because social media says it— is automatically true because social media says it. we might have some breakin: media says it. we might have some breaking news. _ media says it. we might have some breaking news, possibly, _ media says it. we might have some breaking news, possibly, i'd - media says it. we might have some breaking news, possibly, i'd love i media says it. we might have some breaking news, possibly, i'd love to hear you. so interesting. goad

hear you. so interesting. good morning. _ hear you. so interesting. good morning, everyone _ hear you. so interesting. good morning, everyone has - hear you. so interesting. good morning, everyone has that i l hearyou. so interesting. good morning, everyone has that i agree with a _ morning, everyone has that i agree with a lot _ morning, everyone has that i agree with a lot of— morning, everyone has that i agree with a lot of what jack is saying. we know — with a lot of what jack is saying. we know historically how influential young _ we know historically how influential young people's mines are and we do have to _ young people's mines are and we do have to start looking at what they are influenced by 24 hours a day, they— are influenced by 24 hours a day, they are — are influenced by 24 hours a day, they are influenced by a lot of negativity and it's having a deep impact — negativity and it's having a deep impact i— negativity and it's having a deep impact. i havejust negativity and it's having a deep impact. i have just delivered 27010 and and _ impact. i have just delivered 27010 and and every single one of them betieves— and and every single one of them believes every teenager is carrying a weapon — believes every teenager is carrying a weapon. where do they get those influences — a weapon. where do they get those influences from? through the research _ influences from? through the research done just this morning, youtube, — research done just this morning, youtube, netflix, amazon, all the media _ youtube, netflix, amazon, all the media platforms is telling them be scared, _ media platforms is telling them be scared, and ijust wish we would start— scared, and ijust wish we would start respecting what young people are actually saying and act on it. the government is aware of all the reports _ the government is aware of all the reports that have been given to them, — reports that have been given to them, they are aware about the issues, — them, they are aware about the issues, they are aware of all the violence — issues, they are aware of all the violence we are now seeing, but they're — violence we are now seeing, but they're not— violence we are now seeing, but they're not really respecting young people's _ they're not really respecting young people's voices. picking up a knife is never— people's voices. picking up a knife is never something that is ever

going _ is never something that is ever going to — is never something that is ever going to be acceptable, as far as i'm concerned, but we need to start respecting _ i'm concerned, but we need to start respecting why many young people feel it _ respecting why many young people feel it is _ respecting why many young people feel it is normal or acceptable to pick up _ feel it is normal or acceptable to pick up a — feel it is normal or acceptable to pick up a weapon. feel it is normal or acceptable to pick up a weapon-— feel it is normal or acceptable to i pick up a weapon._ one, pick up a weapon. yes. 100%. one, jack. i pick up a weapon. yes. 10096. one, jack- i agree- _ pick up a weapon. yes. 10096. one, jack- iagree- it— pick up a weapon. yes. 10096. one, jack. i agree. it is not— pick up a weapon. yes. 10096. one, jack. i agree. it is not acceptable i jack. i agree. it is not acceptable to ick jack. i agree. it is not acceptable to pick up _ jack. i agree. it is not acceptable to pick up a _ jack. i agree. it is not acceptable to pick up a weapon _ jack. i agree. it is not acceptable to pick up a weapon at _ jack. i agree. it is not acceptable to pick up a weapon at any - jack. i agree. it is not acceptable| to pick up a weapon at any stage, jack. i agree. it is not acceptable - to pick up a weapon at any stage, do you know what i mean? but it is seen as so normal because it is put out as so normal because it is put out as a normal thing. if you turn on the radio, that's supposed to be controlled and things like that but you hear certain songs were certain the race, if you hit it on the radio it's ok, if it's on daytime telly it is normal, is being played to you, you're being showed that that behaviour is ok. find you're being showed that that behaviour is ok.— you're being showed that that behaviour is ok. and i think it is auoin to behaviour is ok. and i think it is going to come — behaviour is ok. and i think it is going to come out, _ behaviour is ok. and i think it is going to come out, the - behaviour is ok. and i think it is going to come out, the online i behaviour is ok. and i think it is i going to come out, the online bill, the influences, if all the music videos — the influences, if all the music videos were promoting terrorism, if all the _ videos were promoting terrorism, if all the music videos were promoting rape. _ all the music videos were promoting

rape. they— all the music videos were promoting rape, they would be an absolute outrage, — rape, they would be an absolute outrage, it — rape, they would be an absolute outrage, it would be banned instantly, but to actually verbally express — instantly, but to actually verbally express killing someone and tell their intestines hang out, you stab them _ their intestines hang out, you stab them until— their intestines hang out, you stab them until the point it penetrates their back, they bleed out on the street. _ their back, they bleed out on the street. if— their back, they bleed out on the street, if that is being glorified and being allowed to be in the public— and being allowed to be in the public domain, i'm not quite sure at what _ public domain, i'm not quite sure at what point _ public domain, i'm not quite sure at what point that would ever become acceptable and we have such double standards _ acceptable and we have such double standards and young people see that and that's— standards and young people see that and that's why we see such a deterioration in respect. we say one thing. _ deterioration in respect. we say one thing. we _ deterioration in respect. we say one thing. we do — deterioration in respect. we say one thing, we do another. young people are ireing _ thing, we do another. young people are being genuinely influence to feel that — are being genuinely influence to feel that it is acceptable to talk in a certain way, dress a certain way— in a certain way, dress a certain wayand— in a certain way, dress a certain wayand out— in a certain way, dress a certain way and out to a certain way, and of course _ way and out to a certain way, and of course that — way and out to a certain way, and of course that does not mean they are going _ course that does not mean they are going to _ course that does not mean they are going to become murderers, but what it does— going to become murderers, but what it does is— going to become murderers, but what it does is increase the chance of somebody— it does is increase the chance of somebody becoming a murderer and we are seeing _ somebody becoming a murderer and we are seeing prearranged fights being filmed _ are seeing prearranged fights being filmed online, many views resulting

in payment, to —— payment buying designer— in payment, to —— payment buying designer items, so when you say to a young _ designer items, so when you say to a young person don't run towards a fine fitm — young person don't run towards a fine film that they think of course you did _ fine film that they think of course you did because two filmic it gets me views, — you did because two filmic it gets me views, views gets me paid, why wouldn't _ me views, views gets me paid, why wouldn't t? — me views, views gets me paid, why wouldn't i?— wouldn't i? sow tech talk is adding to it? yes and _ wouldn't i? sow tech talk is adding to it? yes and i _ wouldn't i? sow tech talk is adding to it? yes and i think— wouldn't i? sow tech talk is adding to it? yes and i think they - wouldn't i? sow tech talk is adding to it? yes and i think they are - to it? yes and i think they are caettin to it? yes and i think they are getting better _ to it? yes and i think they are getting better at _ to it? yes and i think they are getting better at these - to it? yes and i think they are | getting better at these things, reacting — getting better at these things, reacting to what is being uploaded. but young — reacting to what is being uploaded. but young people have been exposed, we know— but young people have been exposed, we know they've been plugged into a technology for a composer of years now -- _ technology for a composer of years now -- a _ technology for a composer of years now —— a number of years now, and we need _ now —— a number of years now, and we need schools— now —— a number of years now, and we need schools to — now —— a number of years now, and we need schools to be supported, money as far— need schools to be supported, money as far as— need schools to be supported, money as far as t'm _ need schools to be supported, money as far as i'm concerned is not the biggest _ as far as i'm concerned is not the biggest reason why we cannot help young _ biggest reason why we cannot help young people, millions is wasted. if we actually— young people, millions is wasted. if we actually refocus those funds into proactive _ we actually refocus those funds into proactive and effective interventions, we'd see... i think a

real impact— interventions, we'd see... i think a real impact and a reduction. park with ou real impact and a reduction. park with you in _ real impact and a reduction. park with you injust— real impact and a reduction. park with you in just a _ real impact and a reduction. i—j'a; with you in just a second. real impact and a reduction. i—j'a; with you injust a second. some with you in just a second. some breaking news. timothy schofield, brother of philip schofield, has been jailed for 12 years for sexually abusing a teenage boy. our corresponding is at bristol crown court. tell us more. tim scofield a - eared court. tell us more. tim scofield appeared in _ court. tell us more. tim scofield appeared in court _ court. tell us more. tim scofield appeared in court today - court. tell us more. tim scofield appeared in court today in - court. tell us more. tim scofield appeared in court today in the i court. tell us more. tim scofield i appeared in court today in the dark, peeling anxious and uncomfortable at times, we heard in court before sentencing a statement from the victim described how they felt they were trapped any loop of fear and anxiety and only after timothy schofield was arrested was the victim able to feel free and safe. he spoke about the fact there was detail about the impacts of the crime, how the victim had felt stress, fear and panic. this trial

happened, was heard about a month ago. they were discussing how... the court heard from timothy schofield, he denied the 11 sex offences. he denied abusing the child but he did say that he had watched pornography with the child, but that they were 16 and had consented. he also told the court last month during the trial that he had struggled with his mental health, that he had been gay all his life but had not told anybody and that this had been extremely difficult. the jury found him guilty, the prosecution said there was evidence the abuse had happened since the age of 13, and today's sentencing, the judge said, praised the victim for coming forward and said that they hoped the

family could move forward. timothy schofield was an it worker for avon and somerset police, he was suspended when the criminal proceedings started and he has since been dismissed.— been dismissed. philip schofield, in resonse been dismissed. philip schofield, in response to — been dismissed. philip schofield, in response to his _ been dismissed. philip schofield, in response to his brother's _ been dismissed. philip schofield, in l response to his brother's appearance in court and his crime says i no longer have a brother. thank you for this news of the sentencing of timothy schofield, jailed for 12 years for sexually abusing a teenage boy. we are talking about knife crime, i want to ask you a question, jack, and bianca, injust one second. jack, prison was not a problem? second. jack, prison was not a problem?— second. jack, prison was not a roblem? ., . . problem? no, and i will say that directly and _ problem? no, and i will say that directly and straight _ problem? no, and i will say that directly and straight up. - problem? no, and i will say that directly and straight up. no, - problem? no, and i will say that directly and straight up. no, it l problem? no, and i will say that| directly and straight up. no, it is not. it is not a problem at all. you

end upfinding... not. it is not a problem at all. you end up finding... you wouldn't have a problem going back if you had to come and do you know what i mean? and people are prepared for that and oversee the mindset to have back then, after getting used to custody it got to the point... fine then, after getting used to custody it got to the point. . ._ it got to the point... one second, we have two _ it got to the point... one second, we have two coterie _ it got to the point... one second, we have two coterie press - it got to the point... one second, - we have two coterie press conference outside the court, we've just been speaking about it. outside the court, we've 'ust been speaking about ith speaking about it. timothy schofield. _ speaking about it. timothy schofield, who _ speaking about it. timothy schofield, who worked - speaking about it. timothy schofield, who worked for| speaking about it. timothy - schofield, who worked for avon and somerset _ schofield, who worked for avon and somerset police at our headquarters committed a series of sickening offences— committed a series of sickening offences for which he has now been brought— offences for which he has now been brought to — offences for which he has now been brought tojustice. the offences were _ brought tojustice. the offences were first — brought tojustice. the offences were first reported to us in december 2021. within 48 hours, timothy— december 2021. within 48 hours, timothy schofield had been arrested, interviewed and charged for his sickening — interviewed and charged for his sickening series of offences. he was suspended _ sickening series of offences. he was suspended from duty and misconduct proceedings against him were pores so the _ proceedings against him were pores so the criminal case could take priority — so the criminal case could take priority. -- _ so the criminal case could take priority. —— paused. following his conviction, — priority. —— paused. following his conviction, misconduct hearing was held on— conviction, misconduct hearing was held on tuesday 24th of april and

chaired _ held on tuesday 24th of april and chaired by— held on tuesday 24th of april and chaired by assistant chief constable will light _ chaired by assistant chief constable will light. at this hearing, he was dismissed — will light. at this hearing, he was dismissed without notice and he will now be _ dismissed without notice and he will now be placed on a national bard less that — now be placed on a national bard less that will prevent him from working — less that will prevent him from working in law enforcement again. the victim — working in law enforcement again. the victim in this case has shown remarkable — the victim in this case has shown remarkable bravery and exposing the horrific— remarkable bravery and exposing the horrific offences committed against them _ horrific offences committed against them and _ horrific offences committed against them and the support of the police investigation and court process has been _ investigation and court process has been invaluable to us. we hope that their courage and determination will encourage _ their courage and determination will encourage other victims of sexual abuse _ encourage other victims of sexual abuse to— encourage other victims of sexual abuse to come forward and speak to the police, — abuse to come forward and speak to the police, no matter how long ago those _ the police, no matter how long ago those offences occurred. we want them _ those offences occurred. we want them to _ those offences occurred. we want them to know that they will be believed — them to know that they will be believed and respected. and we will always— believed and respected. and we will always do— believed and respected. and we will always do our very best to bring the suspects _ always do our very best to bring the suspects to— always do our very best to bring the suspects tojustice. always do our very best to bring the suspects to justice. although the offences— suspects to justice. although the offences timothy schofield commented were not— offences timothy schofield commented were not connected to his employment —— committed, we know he was a member— —— committed, we know he was a member of— —— committed, we know he was a member of the stuff that cause great concern _ member of the stuff that cause great concern to— member of the stuff that cause great concern to the public. it is important to stress the before

allegations were made to the police in december, there were no prior complaints— in december, there were no prior complaints or allegations made about the defendant, and his former colleagues are horrified for the offences — colleagues are horrified for the offences for which she has been convicted — offences for which she has been convicted now. we want to be absolutely clear, we are on a mission _ absolutely clear, we are on a mission to— absolutely clear, we are on a mission to root out all those who would _ mission to root out all those who would betray the standards and values — would betray the standards and values we are committed to uphold. the public— values we are committed to uphold. the public must be able to trust the police _ the public must be able to trust the police. officers and staff and protect — police. officers and staff and protect that bond is our priority. finally, — protect that bond is our priority. finally, we — protect that bond is our priority. finally, we would like to thank all those _ finally, we would like to thank all those who— finally, we would like to thank all those who supplied us with information and evidence in support of our— information and evidence in support of our investigation, which has ultimately enabled us to achieve justice _ ultimately enabled us to achieve justice today for the victim in this case _ justice today for the victim in this case thank— justice today for the victim in this case. thank you very much, everyone. the detective — case. thank you very much, everyone. the detective inspector keith smith making a statement following a sentence of 12 years for timothy schofield for offences against a minor. just remember, as we heard

from jenny, a corresponding common timothy schofield was an it worker with avon and somerset police, hence some of the remarks there in the police press conference. it is 10:53. bianca, iwill come police press conference. it is 10:53. bianca, i will come to you now. thank you for being so patient. so many calls this morning, and so many people to hear from. goad many people to hear from. good morninu. many people to hear from. good morning. hide. _ many people to hear from. good morning. hide. why _ many people to hear from. good morning. hide. why make - many people to hear from. (each. morning. hide. why make this really frightening for you, this, isn't it? —— as i was telling your producer, i have a one—year—old, will be to next month, and i am so worried about what is happening with nice frame. —— knife crime. it is this though you don't hear enough about what government is doing, the police are doing to tackle this. just the resources, where did they go if they

are worried about who their kids are hanging outwith? there is hardly any resources for kids. are we surprised kids are carrying knives? it is as though they feel they are alone out there. i am just so worried for him. i also have an eight—year—old nephew and a 14—year—old nephew, i eight—year—old nephew and a 14—year—old nephew, lam eight—year—old nephew and a 14—year—old nephew, i am worried for them, and i don't think enough gets talked about in terms of their desensitisation from the violent gaming, a lot of teenagers are playing, and we hear about studies from gaming companies saying that games have no impact but here we are bringing social media companies about how the content is having an effect on how many teenagers are...

but here we are, it is very scary. how much do you think family background is relevant? we were hearing earlier on some cases of boys coming from lovely families but falling in with the wrong crowd, how significant do you think... ? i think that's the thing. if it comes down resources, if my son, if i am worried about the people he's hanging outwith, what help would be available to me if i'm worried about drug gangs are... ? where do i go? i can havea drug gangs are... ? where do i go? i can have a lovely family as much as i like but how do i protect my child? when i was a teenager we had youth clubs, all of these things are nowhere to be seen. we see all of

these massive knives teenagers are supposedly carrying now, when are they getting them from? we talk about stop and search, from they were just too late, it is already on the street, how did it get to the kids spice we have had instances with the baby that was shot i think in liverpool, how are these guns are getting on the streets? by then they are already on the streets. it is almost too late in my eyes. what exactly is the government doing to make sure these things don't get in the hands of kids? and what are they doing, once we have troubled teenagers, what help is available to them? these things are starting to affect everybody because you hear so much about what is happening with teenagers, ifind myself thinking when i'm walking on the street, if i have an argument with a teenager out

there, i'mjust have an argument with a teenager out there, i'm just going to walk away, whether they are in the wrong or whatever, i'mjust whether they are in the wrong or whatever, i'm just going to walk away because... the whatever, i'm just going to walk away because. . ._ whatever, i'm just going to walk away because... the kind of fear it engenders- — away because... the kind of fear it engenders. wow. _ away because. .. the kind of fear it engenders. wow. paul— away because... the kind of fear it engenders. wow. paul in - away because... the kind of fear it engenders. wow. paul in south i engenders. wow. paul in south london, you work in schools. we are hearing a lot about youth clubs, what is it about youth clubs? we have two and a half minutes. what uses a youth club if gangs are going to congregate there? it is uses a youth club if gangs are going to congregate there?— to congregate there? it is no use. because there _ to congregate there? it is no use. because there are _ to congregate there? it is no use. because there are some - to congregate there? it is no use. because there are some youth i to congregate there? it is no use. i because there are some youth clubs that are open, that gang shoes as a way of finding disenfranchised or dysfunctional young people to groom. my dysfunctional young people to groom. my point is that it needs to start a home and there is to be a different approach, when you start looking at the cause and not the symptom spotlight has taken —— scotland has

taken a different approach, they were then a prime capital of europe at one point and now they put it down dramatically because they are taking public health approach, police are notjust going out to look for young people and profiling what they are doing, they are working with schools and health care workers, with social workers, with families to help bring a systemic approach to dealing with the actual causes. i believe personally that there should be more money and finances to approach it from even a therapeutic aspect, providing more finance for schools to support young people from a therapeutic angle, and also support families, because what you have, we are dealing with young people that are notjust you have, we are dealing with young people that are not just angry, you have, we are dealing with young people that are notjust angry, we are dealing with a lot of young people that are hurt, and when they... when they leave the family home, many of these areas, they face

danger every day. most of these danger every day. most of these danger even when they leave school under a love policing and support for these young people so they are left alone —— there's not enough policing and support. we need a new approach, we need to do with the causes are not the issues and think that finding for schools to provide more therapeutic support, notjust for children but also for parents and families, like your last caller said, what does she do if she has a concern for her son? there is no clear guidelines, clear pathways for parents to go and get that support, and i'm sure the government needs to take a more holistic and health approach and systemic approach to stemming the cause and notjust working on the symptoms, if i am making sense. working on the symptoms, if i am making sense-— working on the symptoms, if i am makin: sense. ., . . ~' , . making sense. you are making perfect sense, making sense. you are making perfect sense. thank— making sense. you are making perfect

sense. thank you _ making sense. you are making perfect sense, thank you very _ making sense. you are making perfect sense, thank you very much _ making sense. you are making perfect sense, thank you very much indeed. i sense, thank you very much indeed. thank you to all our callers for that, have a good weekend and thank you for listening. thank you for watching. live from london, this is bbc news. the brother of schofield has been jailed for 12 years for sexually abusing a boy. the g7 summit gets under way in hiroshima, with ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky expected to address world leaders this weekend. tributes flow for the smiths�* bassist, andy rourke, who's died at the age of 59.