morning, 3 very good morning! welcome to the nation will question this morning, talking about suella braverman, do you back braverman? that is the question, think on that, keep up to speed, as it were! the prime minister is going to consult his ethics adviser over claims that she tried to arrange a private speed awareness course, she was attorney general at the time and want to swerve a group cause, citing security concerns. she does drive her critics crazy, i got to say. to go back braverman? she was told it was not a matterfor the

go back braverman? she was told it was not a matter for the civil service and she wanted to take the points on her licence. some see her as the embodiment of evil, other is the personification of common sense. she annoys all the right people in her phrase the guardian reading tofu eating wokerati, a book of her quotes would be a stocking filler, wouldn't it? she said those on the left were embarrassed by history, and her own political history is interesting, check it. so this speeding row, is she snookered? do you back braverman? and here is the news from bethan holmes. rishi sunak is expected

to meet his ethics advisor later to consider claims that the home secretary suella braverman broke the ministerial code after she was caught speeding. she's alleged to have asked civil servants about arranging a private speed awareness course for her so she could avoid attending as part of a group. labour leader sir keir starmer has told 5 live he wants to make the nhs fit for the future. in a speech later, sir kier will propose new nhs targets on cutting deaths in england from heart disease and strokes by a quarter over ten years and see suicide figures decline within five. a report says many of the young victims of the manchester arena bombing have failed to receive adequate psychological support. it's six years since the attack in which 22 people were killed and more than 900 were injured after an ariana grande concert. and it's understood the head of the northern ireland civil service has asked political parties entitled to form a government at stormont to meet her later this week. in a letter to the four largest

parties, jayne brady says the budget pressures this year were compounded by a governance gap. sinn fein won the most seats in council elections last week, saying it proved voters want the power—sharing government to return. let mejust let me just tell you at about ten o'clock this morning we are going to discuss the nhs, the nhs, how is it for you? discuss the nhs, the nhs, how is it foryou? keir starmer discuss the nhs, the nhs, how is it for you? keir starmer is making a big speech at 10:30am, you will be able to see it here and here it here as well, and in the run—up to it, we want to hearfrom as well, and in the run—up to it, we want to hear from you about that. between now and then, though, there is awareness course. actually, talking about keir starmer, one of

many gems of quotes, you might use another word, you might say gems, you might think she is a diamond! you might say otherwise, a divisive figure, as i mentioned. she said of keir starmer, given his definition of a woman, we can't rule him out for being labour's first female prime minister. speed awareness course or a self awareness course? the figures for net migration are out later this week, the thought is it is going to be, from the government point of view, pretty bad, and people are interested in the timing of this revelation about her speed awareness course. she has her speed awareness course. she has her critics and enemies within the civil service, and no doubt she also has critics and enemies at the centre of the conservative party, certainly at the centre of the government, that particular part of the conservative establishment, they were annoyed by her appearance last week at the national conservative conference and some of the things

that she said. some reckon she is out on manoeuvres, thinking about her next move, come the next election, that is what politicians do. so on the speed awareness course, you may well have experience of one of these yourself! what do you think about...? ones are eminently arrange a bowl, apparently, i guess the big thing is who she asked to arrange it for her. is it a case of getting your secretary to get your wife some flowers or some such, you know, looking at it from a male point of view? khaled in leicester, terry in greenwich, good morning, kick it off, do you back?— greenwich, good morning, kick it off, do you back? yes, hello, i do, i did this sum _ off, do you back? yes, hello, i do, i did this sum time _ off, do you back? yes, hello, i do, i did this sum time last _ off, do you back? yes, hello, i do, i did this sum time last year, - off, do you back? yes, hello, i do, i did this sum time last year, we i i did this sum time last year, we are only hearing about it now, and

if i rocked up at a speed awareness course, i wouldn't expect suella braverman to be sitting next to her. i have no issue with her wanting to do a one on one, when you sit down to do a speed awareness, you are not supposed to talk about it, they say that at the beginning. why would you expect her to be there? i want her to be doing the things i wanted to be doing regarding, i don't know, these figures coming out later in these figures coming out later in the week. i am not interested in if she does it one on one, she took the points in the end. i would rather she did herjob, ratherthan points in the end. i would rather she did herjob, rather than sitting on a holiday in all something doing a speed awareness course.- a speed awareness course. yeah? khaled? with _ a speed awareness course. yeah? khaled? with all _ a speed awareness course. yeah? khaled? with all the _ a speed awareness course. yeah? khaled? with all the other- a speed awareness course. yeah? i khaled? with all the other herberts! herbert, khaled? with all the other herberts! herbert. give — khaled? with all the other herberts! herbert. give us— khaled? with all the other herberts! herbert, give us a _ khaled? with all the other herberts! herbert, give us a call. _ khaled? with all the other herberts! herbert, give us a call. khaled, - herbert, give us a call. khaled, what do you say?— herbert, give us a call. khaled, what do you say? terry, with all due resect, what do you say? terry, with all due respect. she — what do you say? terry, with all due respect, she should _ what do you say? terry, with all due respect, she should be _ what do you say? terry, with all due respect, she should be shown - what do you say? terry, with all due respect, she should be shown the i respect, she should be shown the door~ _ respect, she should be shown the door~ the — respect, she should be shown the

door. the thing is, look, she shouldwi— door. the thing is, look, she shouldn't be there, it is not about the speeding fine.— the speeding fine. realistically... that is what _ the speeding fine. realistically... that is what we _ the speeding fine. realistically... that is what we are _ the speeding fine. realistically... that is what we are talking - the speeding fine. realistically... | that is what we are talking about. it is the last straw. first thing, she broke _ it is the last straw. first thing, she broke the ministerial code, she has demonised the whole ethnic community with the gangs issue, she has demonised... she has continually demonised _ has demonised... she has continually demonised all immigrants. she dreams of sending _ demonised all immigrants. she dreams of sending immigrants to rwanda. she has also, _ of sending immigrants to rwanda. she hasaiso, in— of sending immigrants to rwanda. she has also, in the language she has used, _ has also, in the language she has used. we — has also, in the language she has used, we know it is abhorrent and ridiculous — used, we know it is abhorrent and ridiculous e— used, we know it is abhorrent and ridiculous. �* ., ., used, we know it is abhorrent and ridiculdus-— used, we know it is abhorrent and ridiculdus-_ ridiculous. a lot of people don't have a problem _ ridiculous. a lot of people don't have a problem with _ ridiculous. a lot of people don't have a problem with a - ridiculous. a lot of people don't have a problem with a lot - ridiculous. a lot of people don't have a problem with a lot of. ridiculous. a lot of people don't i have a problem with a lot of things she says, this is not what i have rung up about! i have rung up about speed awareness! i like the cut of herjib! so far, i quite like the cut of herjib!—

herjib! so far, i quite like the cut of her 'ib! , ., , cut of her 'ib! listen... no, listen to what cut of herjib! listen... no, listen to what rishi _ cut of herjib! listen... no, listen to what rishi sunak— cut of herjib! listen... no, listen to what rishi sunak said, - cut of herjib! listen... no, listen to what rishi sunak said, what i cut of herjib! listen... no, listen| to what rishi sunak said, what did he say? _ to what rishi sunak said, what did he say? going on about professionalism, integrity and accountability, which doesn't apply to his _ accountability, which doesn't apply to his own— accountability, which doesn't apply to his own cabinet, this is ridiculous, preposterous. if that is what _ ridiculous, preposterous. if that is what the _ ridiculous, preposterous. if that is what the cabinet is about, they should — what the cabinet is about, they should apply it to their own cabinet _ should apply it to their own cabinet. that is not one rule for one and — cabinet. that is not one rule for one and one for another. i cabinet. that is not one rule for one and one for another.- cabinet. that is not one rule for one and one for another. i have no roblem one and one for another. i have no problem with _ one and one for another. i have no problem with rwanda _ one and one for another. i have no problem with rwanda flights, - one and one for another. i have no problem with rwanda flights, i - one and one for another. i have no i problem with rwanda flights, i don't think it will ever happen. how many times have people been stuck on flights about to be deported and they get pulled off at the last minute and then you read about it since then? we are a laughing stock. we need to sort this problem out. i have no issue with rwanda. that we need to sort this problem out. i have no issue with rwanda.- have no issue with rwanda. that is our have no issue with rwanda. that is your viewpoint. — have no issue with rwanda. that is your viewpoint, mate. _ have no issue with rwanda. that is your viewpoint, mate. you - have no issue with rwanda. that is your viewpoint, mate. you are - have no issue with rwanda. that is your viewpoint, mate. you are not| your viewpoint, mate. you are not talkin: to your viewpoint, mate. you are not talking to the... _ your viewpoint, mate. you are not talking to the. .. i _ your viewpoint, mate. you are not talking to the... i don't _ your viewpoint, mate. you are not talking to the... i don't know - your viewpoint, mate. you are not talking to the... i don't know the i talking to the... i don't know the expression i'm looking for, but i would rather...— expression i'm looking for, but i would rather... what is the phrase ou are would rather... what is the phrase you are looking — would rather... what is the phrase you are looking for? _ would rather... what is the phrase you are looking for? guardian - you are looking for? guardian reading, tofu eating wokerati? i

find it quite funny, i don't eat tofu, the guardian has got a good travel supplement, look at that! terry, can i have a quick word? yes. terry, can i have a quick word? yes, to on. terry, can i have a quick word? yes, go on- the — terry, can i have a quick word? yes, go on- the thing _ terry, can i have a quick word? yes, go on. the thing is, _ terry, can i have a quick word? yes, go on. the thing is, look, _ terry, can i have a quick word? yes, | go on. the thing is, look, braverman nets go on. the thing is, look, braverman gets advice — go on. the thing is, look, braverman gets advice from _ go on. the thing is, look, braverman gets advice from douglas _ go on. the thing is, look, braverman gets advice from douglas murray... i gets advice from douglas murray... who? _ gets advice from douglas murray... who? sorry. — gets advice from douglas murray... who? sorry, who? he gets advice from douglas murray... who? sorry, who?— gets advice from douglas murray... who? sorry, who? he was speaking at the national — who? sorry, who? he was speaking at the national conservative _ who? sorry, who? he was speaking at the national conservative konsa. .. - the national conservative konsa... concert! to be fair, jacob rees—mogg was trying to start a chorus of four he is a jolly good fellow, but douglas murray would be characterised as a writer on the right, he has been extremely critical of islam is, he has been incendiary in his comments. others say entirely reasonable, articulating the threat from that particular extremism. let's park

him. let's parking. everyone is entitled to... claire in kingston, khaled, don't go anywhere. you can see already that she does ignite opinion and she is a divisive figure, and some cannot stomach her, and some cannot get enough of her, they cannot get their fill. what about this speed...? i'm constantly going to try to bring it back to his speed awareness course, but other things will of that there is no doubt! good morning, welcome! thank ou, aood doubt! good morning, welcome! thank you. good morning- — doubt! good morning, welcome! thank you, good morning. my— doubt! good morning, welcome! thank you, good morning. my view— doubt! good morning, welcome! trisha; you, good morning. my view is, well, let mejust say you, good morning. my view is, well, let me just say at the beginning that i am no fan of her or her policies, not at all, i would like to see her go. that said, i think this is a stupid waste of time. swathes of media time being wasted on this is beyond belief. much more important stories to talk about in

politics than is. i think it was perfectly reasonable for her to inquire about a one—to—one course because of her position. i have been on more than one speeding awareness course, and some are online, and they are very interactive, and there is absolutely nothing to stop somebody sitting filming you, you know, they are told not to, but we live in a world where people are trying to get snapshots to put online, that is the way we live now. and i think it is absolutely reasonable that she asked for inquired about a one—to—one course, and as we know from nick freeman, you know, they are available for high—profile people. i didn't know that before hearing it on your radio show this morning, but it doesn't surprise me. so i think it is a big fuss over nothing, frankly. cannot stay there, a lot of people are saying this, looking at the text. khaled, are you still with us? i

want a little thought experiment with you, many people listening will absolutely know why you cannot abide this woman and her policies, some of the things that she has said. she is a controversialist, clearly, and many people on her own side say that she has been injudicious in some of the language that she has used, talking about an invasion on the south coast and so forth. park edge, as i said earlier, put that to one side. think purely about the speed awareness row, can you find it in your heart, in your logic, to say, as claire has said, and reiterate, you are no fan of her? i as claire has said, and reiterate, you are no fan of her?— as claire has said, and reiterate, you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her, i you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her. i would — you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her, i would love _ you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her, i would love to _ you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her, i would love to see _ you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her, i would love to see the - you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her, i would love to see the back i you are no fan of her? i cannot bear her, i would love to see the back of| her, i would love to see the back of her. but that is a different subject, isn't it?— her. but that is a different subject, isn't it? khaled, on the seed subject, isn't it? khaled, on the speed awareness _ subject, isn't it? khaled, on the speed awareness course, - subject, isn't it? khaled, on the speed awareness course, and i subject, isn't it? khaled, on the - speed awareness course, and there are wheels within wheels, clearly! what has she done anything wrong? ii

what has she done anything wrong? if somebody goes into court, they have stabbed _ somebody goes into court, they have stabbed somebody, now they are throwing — stabbed somebody, now they are throwing a piece of paper at a policeman. if he goes into court for throwing _ policeman. if he goes into court for throwing a — policeman. if he goes into court for throwing a piece of paper at the policeman, that is trivial, but he has a _ policeman, that is trivial, but he has a catalogue of errors behind them _ has a catalogue of errors behind them. there is a whole list of things — them. there is a whole list of things. you can see it as a final straw. — things. you can see it as a final straw. the _ things. you can see it as a final straw, the speeding fine is irrelevant, i will be honest with you. _ irrelevant, i will be honest with you. it — irrelevant, i will be honest with you, it doesn't make sense. i am not askin: you, it doesn't make sense. i am not asking about — you, it doesn't make sense. i am not asking about the _ you, it doesn't make sense. i am not asking about the speeding _ you, it doesn't make sense. i am not asking about the speeding fan, - you, it doesn't make sense. i am not asking about the speeding fan, if- asking about the speeding fan, if she was rob braverman, she might not be home secretary or attorney general, but another high—profile figure in a party you vote for, i'm not going to ask what it might be, but if you focus on the issue, has she done anything wrong? ii but if you focus on the issue, has she done anything wrong?- but if you focus on the issue, has she done anything wrong? if she is 'ust on the she done anything wrong? if she is just on the speeding _ she done anything wrong? if she is just on the speeding fine, - she done anything wrong? if she is just on the speeding fine, but - she done anything wrong? if she is| just on the speeding fine, but there are intricacies about whether she should _ are intricacies about whether she should have spoken to the civil servant. — should have spoken to the civil servant, what she exactly asked, the nittv-grittv_ servant, what she exactly asked, the nitty—gritty details, but for me, personally, i think it is

irrelevant, it is not a major crime, as it _ irrelevant, it is not a major crime, as it were — irrelevant, it is not a major crime, as it were. but she has had major issues _ as it were. but she has had major issues in — as it were. but she has had major issues in the _ as it were. but she has had major issues in the past, she has dealt with people who are very far extreme _ with people who are very far extreme, even far right extremists, far right _ extreme, even far right extremists, far right conservatives do not want those _ far right conservatives do not want those people within her party, and she has— those people within her party, and she has gone to that sort of level. it she has gone to that sort of level. it does _ she has gone to that sort of level. it does have a knock—on effect, and like i_ it does have a knock—on effect, and like i say, _ it does have a knock—on effect, and like i say, the speeding fine is irrelevant, _ like i say, the speeding fine is irrelevant, i'll be honest with you. it is irrelevant, i'll be honest with you. it is nothing — irrelevant, i'll be honest with you. it is nothing worth shouting about. but the _ it is nothing worth shouting about. but the thing is, it shows the integritv_ but the thing is, it shows the integrity and professionalism and accountability which sunak said his party— accountability which sunak said his party would have has been completely chucked _ party would have has been completely chucked out, thrown out. a chucked out, thrown out. cumulative thing, as you say, and you cannot separate it from the other stuff. you have got a lot to say and you are saying it very well, and claire is no fan of braverman, wants to see the back of her, but she says this is a storm in a teacup. charlie, we will be with you

in a wee second, get in touch, you know the numbers, everyone. diane where are you on all this? good morning. _ where are you on all this? good morning, niki! _ where are you on all this? good morning, niki! i— where are you on all this? good morning, niki! i am— where are you on all this? good morning, niki! i am completely| morning, niki! iam completely frustrated by it, to be honest, i just as feel as though every time there is a silly thing, the media, i know that includes yourself, the media, the oppositionjust know that includes yourself, the media, the opposition just grab know that includes yourself, the media, the oppositionjust grab hold of any little thing to bring down the government and, you know, apart from any of my own politics, this is just such a horrible thing that we go through these days. i think that suella braverman and any members of the cabinet should be allowed a certain amount of protection, and when they are doing things like this, at least she is... excuse me,

a bit nervous. at least she is trying to do the right thing and go on the course, but do it in a way thatis on the course, but do it in a way that is appropriate. find on the course, but do it in a way that is appropriate.— on the course, but do it in a way that is appropriate. and she doesn't aet that is appropriate. and she doesn't get hassled? _ that is appropriate. and she doesn't get hassled? because _ that is appropriate. and she doesn't get hassled? because she _ that is appropriate. and she doesn't get hassled? because she is - that is appropriate. and she doesn't get hassled? because she is a - get hassled? because she is a controversial figure, get hassled? because she is a controversialfigure, and she might get some people like khalid come up with all respect to him, you might have someone like khalid who starts having a go for other stuff, yeah? well, exactly, as i said, they have to have a certain amount of protection, they always have, ex—prime ministers get protection all their lives, you know? that ex-prime ministers get protection all their lives, you know?- all their lives, you know? that is true, all their lives, you know? that is true. veah- _ all their lives, you know? that is true. veah- we _ all their lives, you know? that is true, yeah. we have _ all their lives, you know? that is true, yeah. we havejust - all their lives, you know? that is true, yeah. we have just got - all their lives, you know? that is true, yeah. we have just got to i all their lives, you know? that is i true, yeah. we have just got to give true, yeah. we have 'ust got to give a little on these — true, yeah. we have just got to give a little on these sorts _ true, yeah. we have just got to give a little on these sorts of— true, yeah. we have just got to give a little on these sorts of things. .. i a little on these sorts of things... diane, a bit of slack, you not sounding nervous at all, you sound very confident, but i want to put something to you, you are having a go at the media, and we are reporting the story, give a go at the media, and we are reporting the story, giving you and claire indeed

and terry the chance to come on and poura and terry the chance to come on and pour a bucket all over us and say it is fuss about nothing, so we are not just having a go at her, i am an honest broker, diane. the front page of the telegraph has this, which is, you know, very conservative newspaper, tory orientated, that is an understatement, but it says suella braverman — victim of a smear campaign as migration battle splits cabinet. get this, allies of suella braverman fears she is the victim of a smear campaign made an increasingly acrimonious battle over her efforts to crack down on net migration. the home secretary has been accused of asking civil servants to organise a private driving awareness course, blah blah blah, it is understood, blah blah blah, it is understood, blah blah blah, but no more blah blah blah yeah, i will you the essence, they reckon it is enemies within her

cabinet who have done this and to have leaked it to try and discredit her. so there are, if i can use the speeding analogy again, there are wheels within wheels, but you cite move on, nothing to see. i personally do, you know, ijust can't bear this sort of relentless, you now, getting onto people. look at this, you know? who in the future is going to want to put themselves up is going to want to put themselves up to be our government, nicky? you know. the way that government works these days, with such scrutiny, i would never ever want to put myself up. would never ever want to put myself u -. , would never ever want to put myself u. , , would never ever want to put myself u. , . well, would never ever want to put myself up-_ well. it - would never ever want to put myself up.— weu. rt rs. - up. scrutiny is good! well, it is, but not up. scrutiny is good! well, it is, but rrot to _ up. scrutiny is good! well, it is, but not to this _ up. scrutiny is good! well, it is, but not to this level. _ up. scrutiny is good! well, it is, but not to this level. would - up. scrutiny is good! well, it is, but not to this level. would you | but not to this level. would you feel the same _ but not to this level. would you feel the same if _ but not to this level. would you feel the same if it _ but not to this level. would you feel the same if it was - but not to this level. would you feel the same if it was a - but not to this level. would you feel the same if it was a labourj feel the same if it was a labour politician?— politician? well, of course! i think--- _ politician? well, of course! i think... fair—

politician? well, of course! i think... fair enough, - politician? well, of course! i think... fair enough, fair- politician? well, of course! i- think... fair enough, fair enough. these people _ think... fair enough, fair enough. these people need _ think... fair enough, fair enough. these people need to _ think... fair enough, fair enough. these people need to get - think... fair enough, fair enough. these people need to get on - think... fair enough, fair enough. these people need to get on and | think... fair enough, fair enough. i these people need to get on and do theirjobs, and every time we get something like this, it isjust deflecting from, you know, what they could be doing. deflecting from, you know, what they could be doing-— deflecting from, you know, what they could be doing._ because i deflecting from, you know, what they could be doing._ because itj could be doing. thomas... because it takes time to — could be doing. thomas... because it takes time to sort _ could be doing. thomas... because it takes time to sort it _ could be doing. thomas... because it takes time to sort it out. _ could be doing. thomas... because it takes time to sort it out. do - could be doing. thomas... because it takes time to sort it out. do as - could be doing. thomas... because it takes time to sort it out. do as i - takes time to sort it out. do as i sa , do takes time to sort it out. do as i say. do rrot _ takes time to sort it out. do as i say. do rrot do _ takes time to sort it out. do as i say, do not do as _ takes time to sort it out. do as i say, do not do as i _ takes time to sort it out. do as i say, do not do as i do. - takes time to sort it out. do as i say, do not do as i do. here - takes time to sort it out. do as i say, do not do as i do. here is l say, do not do as i do. here is thomas and geeta, good morning, charlie, i will be with you. what do you think it is, thomas? a lot of fuss about nothing, thomas? [30 you think it is, thomas? a lot of fuss about nothing, thomas? do you know what. — fuss about nothing, thomas? do you know what, nicky? _ fuss about nothing, thomas? do you know what, nicky? i— fuss about nothing, thomas? do you know what, nicky? i am _ fuss about nothing, thomas? do you know what, nicky? i am just - fuss about nothing, thomas? do you know what, nicky? i am just getting | know what, nicky? i am just getting fed know what, nicky? ! am just getting fed up— know what, nicky? i am just getting fed up now. — know what, nicky? i am just getting fed up now, every time i switched the telly— fed up now, every time i switched the telly on in the morning, it is the telly on in the morning, it is the tories — the telly on in the morning, it is the tories have done this, done that, _ the tories have done this, done that, how— the tories have done this, done that, how many chances do they want? we have _ that, how many chances do they want? we have got— that, how many chances do they want? we have got a crisis in this country. _ we have got a crisis in this country, and all we are looking at the tories — country, and all we are looking at the tories this, doing that, the ppe scandal. _ the tories this, doing that, the ppe scandal. it — the tories this, doing that, the ppe scandal. it is — the tories this, doing that, the ppe scandal, it is getting to the stage where _ scandal, it is getting to the stage where i_ scandal, it is getting to the stage where i work with a lot of people and they— where i work with a lot of people and they are struggling, their life is struggling, and if someone breaks

the law, _ is struggling, and if someone breaks the law, they should be answerable. she has— the law, they should be answerable. she has not— the law, they should be answerable. she has not broken the law. you the law, they should be answerable. she has not broken the law.- she has not broken the law. you say she has rrot — she has not broken the law. you say she has not broken _ she has not broken the law. you say she has not broken the _ she has not broken the law. you say she has not broken the law, - she has not broken the law. you say she has not broken the law, but - she has not broken the law. you say she has not broken the law, but she| she has not broken the law, but she has broken — she has not broken the law, but she has broken the ministerial code. collide _ has broken the ministerial code. collide with the e—mail business. if you are _ collide with the e—mail business. if you are going to do that, you should be transparent, you know, i hold my hand _ be transparent, you know, i hold my hand up. _ be transparent, you know, i hold my hand up. i— be transparent, you know, i hold my hand up. i am — be transparent, you know, i hold my hand up, i am of all sorry, but you know— hand up, i am of all sorry, but you know what? — hand up, i am of all sorry, but you know what? everyone i talk to about the tories _ know what? everyone i talk to about the tories now, they do not come across— the tories now, they do not come across as — the tories now, they do not come across as telling the truth. i am fed up— across as telling the truth. i am fed up with it. i am absolutely fed up. people — fed up with it. i am absolutely fed up. people that i work with are fed up. people that i work with are fed up i_ up. people that i work with are fed up i am _ up. people that i work with are fed up. i am getting to the stage where you cannot — up. i am getting to the stage where you cannot believe... i mean, some labour— you cannot believe... i mean, some labour politicians as well, i don't believe _ labour politicians as well, i don't believe them, but you know what i'm going _ believe them, but you know what i'm going to _ believe them, but you know what i'm going to say? it is always the tories, — going to say? it is always the tories, they don't seem to tell the truth _ tories, they don't seem to tell the truth. , ., , tories, they don't seem to tell the truth. , . , , ., tories, they don't seem to tell the truth. , . , ,., ., truth. they have been in power for 13 ears, truth. they have been in power for 13 years. so _ truth. they have been in power for 13 years. so may — truth. they have been in power for 13 years, so may be _ truth. they have been in power for 13 years, so may be the _ truth. they have been in power for 13 years, so may be the focus - truth. they have been in power for 13 years, so may be the focus is i truth. they have been in power for| 13 years, so may be the focus is on them. do you think the speed awareness thing is a lot of fuss about nothing, maybe we should be

discussing holly and phil? it is all over the front pages, and people say that there are political shenanigans, it has been leaked, and there is political relevance in it and we have been migration figures coming out, but that issue on its own, does it matter, thomas? that coming out, but that issue on its own, does it matter, thomas? at this moment now. — own, does it matter, thomas? at this moment now, let's _ own, does it matter, thomas? at this moment now, let's face _ own, does it matter, thomas? at this moment now, let's face it, _ own, does it matter, thomas? at this moment now, let's face it, this - own, does it matter, thomas? at this moment now, let's face it, this has i moment now, let's face it, this has been _ moment now, let's face it, this has been put _ moment now, let's face it, this has been put out — moment now, let's face it, this has been put out there so we have to discuss _ been put out there so we have to discuss it — been put out there so we have to discuss it. right? so the tory party at the _ discuss it. right? so the tory party at the moment are at war, and you don't _ at the moment are at war, and you don't have — at the moment are at war, and you don't have to — at the moment are at war, and you don't have to look at the telegraph and know— don't have to look at the telegraph and know it — don't have to look at the telegraph and know it is a tory paper, but the tory party— and know it is a tory paper, but the tory party are at war. to be honest with you. _ tory party are at war. to be honest with you. i— tory party are at war. to be honest with you, i don't care anything with you, idon't care anything about— with you, i don't care anything about speeding, i care about this country — about speeding, i care about this country. this country at the moment is nearly— country. this country at the moment is nearly broken, and i care about this country _ is nearly broken, and i care about this country. i don't care about switching — this country. i don't care about switching the telly on and listening to a minister, it makes me fed up. and i_

to a minister, it makes me fed up. and i think— to a minister, it makes me fed up. and i think to— to a minister, it makes me fed up. and i think to myself now, i think, the tories — and i think to myself now, i think, the tories turn around and say, whoever— the tories turn around and say, whoever has leaked this, there is a reason _ whoever has leaked this, there is a reason you — whoever has leaked this, there is a reason you done it. but to be honest with you. _ reason you done it. but to be honest with you. she — reason you done it. but to be honest with you, she shouldn't be in the position— with you, she shouldn't be in the position in— with you, she shouldn't be in the position in the first place because... position in the first place because. . ._ position in the first place because... , ., , , because... there is lots behind it, and ou because... there is lots behind it, and you can _ because... there is lots behind it, and you can hear _ because... there is lots behind it, and you can hear people _ because... there is lots behind it, and you can hear people are - because... there is lots behind it, i and you can hear people are coming to it from specific points of view, aren't they? there is an element of confirmation bias, i think they call it, going on. charlie, i promise i will come to you, but loads of calls, i really appreciate you getting in touch whether you are listening or watching. what do you think, geeta? listening or watching. what do you think. geeta?— listening or watching. what do you think, geeta? well, the question is, do ou think, geeta? well, the question is, do you back — think, geeta? well, the question is, do you back braverman, _ think, geeta? well, the question is, do you back braverman, and - think, geeta? well, the question is, do you back braverman, and i - think, geeta? well, the question is, do you back braverman, and i am i think, geeta? well, the question is, i do you back braverman, and i am not bothered either way, but i think a lot of callers have called up about... she is in the news because of this course, she asked to have a one—to—one, and i think she was quite rightly asking for that. whether she broke the ministerial code with regards to asking, i don't

know, i think it is quite sensible, because if she did attend the course with other people, i don't know how many would be in the group, and as you say, she is a divisive figure, so people would then... they would question her about this policy, that policy, challenge her on things, and then the course would be about her, not what they are therefore. also she brought up security, which may or may not be an issue, i don't know, but if it was a course she could do on her own or over zoom or whatever, on a one—to—one basis, i don't see a problem with it. with regards to, do i back braverman? you know, i don't have an opinion on that, she is a divisive figure, some think what she is doing is right, others think wrong, and there is a question about immigration, i think she is trying her best to deal with it. but it is a very long standing problem. immigration has been sort

of long standing from, i don't know, 19505, 19605, and i don't think it is something that is going to be resolved by her or anybody else, it needs cross—party conversation, you know, something like the nhs, the police, there are certain areas of government which i think you cannot just belong to one party. i government which i think you cannot just belong to one party.— just belong to one party. i think, like the nhs _ just belong to one party. i think, like the nhs and _ just belong to one party. i think, like the nhs and policing, - just belong to one party. i think, like the nhs and policing, it i just belong to one party. i think, like the nhs and policing, it will| like the nhs and policing, it will be a massive issue at the next election, that is for sure. wow, interesting comments. i pay tribute to those who have come in and said that you cannot stick suella braverman on the speed awareness thing, you think it is a lot of fuss about nothing... i thing, you think it is a lot of fuss about nothing. . ._ thing, you think it is a lot of fuss about nothing... i do. charlie rowley. _ about nothing... i do. charlie rowley, former _ about nothing... i gr charlie rowley, former conservative special adviser to michael gove and theresa may, welcome at last! how are you doing? may, welcome at last! how are you doin: ? , ., may, welcome at last! how are you doin:? , . doing? very well, thanks, happy monda . doing? very well, thanks, happy monday- what — doing? very well, thanks, happy monday. what i'm _ doing? very well, thanks, happy monday. what i'm saying - doing? very well, thanks, happy monday. what i'm saying is i doing? very well, thanks, happy monday. what i'm saying is that| monday. what i'm saying is that eo - le monday. what i'm saying is that people bring _ monday. what i'm saying is that people bring their _ monday. what i'm saying is that people bring their baggage i monday. what i'm saying is that people bring their baggage to i people bring their baggage to braverman when they express their

opinions, i pay tribute to those who have kind of detached all the other stuff from this particular issue. what do you make of it?- stuff from this particular issue. what do you make of it? well, it is interesting — what do you make of it? well, it is interesting just _ what do you make of it? well, it is interesting just listening _ what do you make of it? well, it is interesting just listening to - what do you make of it? well, it is interesting just listening to those i interesting just listening to those callers _ interesting just listening to those callers as— interesting just listening to those callers as well, because i think the public— callers as well, because i think the public generally do get it right. i think— public generally do get it right. i think what the public don't like to see is— think what the public don't like to see is politicians taking them for a ride. _ see is politicians taking them for a ride or— see is politicians taking them for a ride or the — see is politicians taking them for a ride, or the fact that they may have had overly— ride, or the fact that they may have had overly special treatment. of course — had overly special treatment. of course, there will always be issues around _ course, there will always be issues around security and things like that where _ around security and things like that where ministers do, i'm afraid, it is part— where ministers do, i'm afraid, it is part of— where ministers do, i'm afraid, it is part of the _ where ministers do, i'm afraid, it is part of the job, if you have to jump— is part of the job, if you have to jump queues and so on, but when it comes— jump queues and so on, but when it comes to _ jump queues and so on, but when it comes to being attorney general and you receive _ comes to being attorney general and you receive a speeding ticket or a fine. _ you receive a speeding ticket or a fine i_ you receive a speeding ticket or a fine, i think, you receive a speeding ticket or a fine, ithink, you know, it is a newsworthy— fine, ithink, you know, it is a newsworthy story, because people expect— newsworthy story, because people expect their politicians to be held in the _ expect their politicians to be held in the highest regard, and rightly so, in the highest regard, and rightly so. and _ in the highest regard, and rightly so, and obviously, you know, she has fallen— so, and obviously, you know, she has fallen foul— so, and obviously, you know, she has fallen foul on — so, and obviously, you know, she has fallen foul on this particular occasion _ fallen foul on this particular occasion. now, whether it was an

attempt _ occasion. now, whether it was an attempt to— occasion. now, whether it was an attempt to have a one—to—one training — attempt to have a one—to—one training course because of her own potential— training course because of her own potential leadership ambitions, or because _ potential leadership ambitions, or because it — potential leadership ambitions, or because it wasjust more embarrassing, or because it was an element _ embarrassing, or because it was an element of— embarrassing, or because it was an element of security detail which she has with— element of security detail which she has with her, we will probably never know. _ has with her, we will probably never know. but _ has with her, we will probably never know. but i— has with her, we will probably never know, but i think what people do not like is _ know, but i think what people do not like is that— know, but i think what people do not like is that it — know, but i think what people do not like is that it could be perceived as some — like is that it could be perceived as some kind of cover—up, as opposed tojust _ as some kind of cover—up, as opposed tojust committing the crime and taking _ tojust committing the crime and taking these speeding calls and attending because like any other member— attending because like any other member of the would have to. | attending because like any other member of the would have to. i said earlier on. — member of the would have to. i said earlier on. in — member of the would have to. i said earlier on, in wordplay, _ member of the would have to. i said earlier on, in wordplay, there - member of the would have to. i "— c earlier on, in wordplay, there are many people say it is not a speed awareness course, she needs a self awareness course, she needs a self awareness course. would it have been awareness course. would it have been a good as her adviser... how many people have been on a speed awareness course? anyone listening? of mike wallace? i awareness course? anyone listening? of mike wallace?— awareness course? anyone listening? of mike wallace? i have been on one. i have of mike wallace? i have been on one. i have been — of mike wallace? i have been on one. i have been on — of mike wallace? i have been on one. i have been on one. _ of mike wallace? i have been on one. i have been on one. i— of mike wallace? i have been on one. i have been on one. i don't— of mike wallace? i have been on one. i have been on one. i don't know, i i i have been on one. i don't know, i have never— i have been on one. i don't know, i have never been _ i have been on one. i don't know, i have never been on _ i have been on one. i don't know, i have never been on one. _ i have been on one. i don't know, i have never been on one. i - i have been on one. i don't know, i have never been on one. i have i i have been on one. i don't know, i l have never been on one. i have been on one as well- _ have never been on one. i have been on one as well- i— have never been on one. i have been on one as well. i have _

have never been on one. i have been on one as well. i have been - have never been on one. i have been on one as well. i have been on i have never been on one. i have been on one as well. i have been on one. | on one as well. i have been on one. how many — on one as well. i have been on one. how many people? _ on one as well. i have been on one. how many people? about _ on one as well. i have been on one. how many people? about 15. - on one as well. i have been on one. how many people? about 15. those j on one as well. i have been on one. i how many people? about 15. those who have been on — how many people? about 15. those who have been on one, _ how many people? about 15. those who have been on one, i _ how many people? about 15. those who have been on one, i have _ how many people? about 15. those who have been on one, i have not— how many people? about 15. those who have been on one, i have not been i how many people? about 15. those who have been on one, i have not been on i have been on one, i have not been on one, because i am blameless! would it have been a good thing, charlie, if she had gone on? what a momentously brilliant piece of pr, she could have said stuff, which you would have written for her, stuff like, i did wrong, i did 35 in a 30 zone, and! like, i did wrong, i did 35 in a 30 zone, and i regret it, but when people do that, they have to take the consequences, and i'm taking the consequences by going in the course because i'm just like everybody else. wouldn't that have been great? exactly, and that is one way to own the story. _ exactly, and that is one way to own the story, and you know, politicians have twom — the story, and you know, politicians have two... one of the criticism is that there — have two... one of the criticism is that there is — have two... one of the criticism is that there is in politics is that they— that there is in politics is that they do— that there is in politics is that they do not get out of westminster enough. _ they do not get out of westminster enough, they are trapped in a bubble — enough, they are trapped in a bubble, they do not know what it is like for— bubble, they do not know what it is like for everyone else in the

country. _ like for everyone else in the country, and everybody, like your callers. _ country, and everybody, like your callers. very _ country, and everybody, like your callers, very fair today to recognise that everybody is human, we all— recognise that everybody is human, we all make mistakes. this was clearly— we all make mistakes. this was clearly an— we all make mistakes. this was clearly an error ofjudgment, and it is not _ clearly an error ofjudgment, and it is not the _ clearly an error ofjudgment, and it is not the end of the world, as you say. _ is not the end of the world, as you say. 35— is not the end of the world, as you say. 35 in— is not the end of the world, as you say. 35 in a — is not the end of the world, as you say, 35 in a 30, a speed awareness course _ say, 35 in a 30, a speed awareness course is _ say, 35 in a 30, a speed awareness course is the — say, 35 in a 30, a speed awareness course is the right thing to do, and she could — course is the right thing to do, and she could have aimed it in that way. but the _ she could have aimed it in that way. but the question of whether she has broken _ but the question of whether she has broken the — but the question of whether she has broken the ministerial code or not, that is— broken the ministerial code or not, that is something the independent adviser— that is something the independent adviser will look into, but there is adviser will look into, but there is a narrative — adviser will look into, but there is a narrative developing that this is some _ a narrative developing that this is some sort— a narrative developing that this is some sort of cover—up and you are getting _ some sort of cover—up and you are getting claim and counterclaim that if you _ getting claim and counterclaim that if you are _ getting claim and counterclaim that if you are a — getting claim and counterclaim that if you are a friend of hers, it is a smearing — if you are a friend of hers, it is a smearing of— if you are a friend of hers, it is a smearing of her good character, versus— smearing of her good character, versus people saying, hold on, she tried to _ versus people saying, hold on, she tried to wriggle out of something that ordinary people just have to deal with — that ordinary people just have to deal with. you just create a narrative _ deal with. you just create a narrative for the government that, a. it _ narrative for the government that, a. it doesn't — narrative for the government that, a, it doesn't need or want, because it plays _ a, it doesn't need or want, because it plays into — a, it doesn't need or want, because it plays into a — a, it doesn't need or want, because it plays into a wider conversation about. _ it plays into a wider conversation about. you — it plays into a wider conversation about, you know, as i said,

applauding good standards in public life, applauding good standards in public life and _ applauding good standards in public life, and after 13 years in government, it is these kinds of stories— government, it is these kinds of stories that people do remember, it does get _ stories that people do remember, it does get them talking about it, and it is a _ does get them talking about it, and it is a shame that on monday morning most of— it is a shame that on monday morning most of us _ it is a shame that on monday morning most of us talking about so well and a speeding _ most of us talking about so well and a speeding ticket, rather than progress _ a speeding ticket, rather than progress made at the g7, where the prime _ progress made at the g7, where the prime minister hasjust come back from _ prime minister hasjust come back from in _ prime minister hasjust come back from injapan. iain prime minister has 'ust come back from impen— prime minister has 'ust come back from in japan. iain watson is coming u . from in japan. iain watson is coming u- in a from in japan. iain watson is coming up in a second. _ from in japan. iain watson is coming up in a second, bbc— from in japan. iain watson is coming up in a second, bbc correspondent i from in japan. iain watson is coming | up in a second, bbc correspondent of great esteem. jason in warrington, what do you think?— what do you think? basically, the home secretary, _ what do you think? basically, the home secretary, she _ what do you think? basically, the home secretary, she is _ what do you think? basically, the home secretary, she is an - what do you think? basically, the l home secretary, she is an absolute disgrace. it can't be one rule for everyone else and one rule for her. she has to go on the course, and i'd like to see her go on the course with the general public so that they can view what she is saying and how she is saying it. the other thing i'd like to say about the home secretary, the 80th year of the dambusters squadron, she is an absolute disgrace letting 2000 immigrants be allowed to go to that

base in lincolnshire, ruin the history of this country. she needs to analyse what she is doing. she needs a good look in the mirror, she needs a good look in the mirror, she needs to watch what she is doing. she's an absolute disgrace to this country. i voted tory, i will never, ever vote tory again if she puts illegal emigrants on the scranton airbase. ., ., ., ., airbase. you are hardline about immigration — airbase. you are hardline about immigration and _ airbase. you are hardline about immigration and so _ airbase. you are hardline about immigration and so is - airbase. you are hardline about immigration and so is she. i airbase. you are hardline about immigration and so is she. she| immigration and so is she. she should be your your political bedfellow?— should be your your political bedfellow? ,, , ., , , , �*, bedfellow? she should be, but she's obviously got — bedfellow? she should be, but she's obviously got no _ bedfellow? she should be, but she's obviously got no respect _ bedfellow? she should be, but she's obviously got no respect whatsoever| obviously got no respect whatsoever for the history of this country. you look at the lancaster programme on channel it this weekend, which was absolutely superb, it is an absolute disgrace how she is behaving. but she said the other day... one second. _ she said the other day... one second, please, _ she said the other day... one second, please, nikki. - she said the other day... que: second, please, nikki. if she said the other day... iez second, please, nikki. if she does visit the site, i suggest she is very careful driving on the a15 because there are lots of speed cameras. .

because there are lots of speed cameras. ,, ., ._ because there are lots of speed cameras. ,, ., .,y . cameras. she said the other day that we disrespect _ cameras. she said the other day that we disrespect our— cameras. she said the other day that we disrespect our own _ cameras. she said the other day that we disrespect our own history - cameras. she said the other day that we disrespect our own history and i cameras. she said the other day that| we disrespect our own history and we should celebrate our own history. it's interesting that you have picked up on this particular issue and you are expressing your distaste for her in your derision of her. that is interesting. setting the immigration stuff aside, we will discuss that later in the week because the net migration figures are coming out, thank you very much for getting in touch, everybody. iain watson, interesting. we have these net migration figures coming out later in the week, she has been very critical, implicitly, of the government, actually, on legal immigration and whatjason government, actually, on legal immigration and what jason referred to as illegal immigration. the telegraph is hinting at dark arts. why has this story come out now? it happened some time ago. it why has this story come out now? it happened some time ago.— happened some time ago. it happen before she was _ happened some time ago. it happen before she was home _ happened some time ago. it happen before she was home secretary, i before she was home secretary, initially she was attorney general when she committed a speeding offence and home secretary by the time she had decided to pay the

fine, and apparently exhausted the alternative of having a private one—on—one speed awareness course for herself. obviously conspiracy theories do the rounds in westminster, tongues began to wag. i can't be entirely sure why it has come out now, i don't know who tipped off the sunday times. clearly there have been rumours about her speeding, because the matt romero said they asked questions about this several weeks ago, although they seemed to be under the impression she was doing a course. —— because the daily mirror. it's undoubtedly true that while if you were to go through speeches that she made, what the prime minister said, it seems like they are technically on the same page. the emphasis on legal migration is very different. at the g7 summit, the big international summit injapan, the prime minister seemed to change his target will get a net migration down. the conservative said on the 2019

manifesto that they would get the numbers down, at that stage it was around 200,000. he seems to suggest he would get the figure is down from the figure he inherited, around 500,000. this week we will probably get record figures, 700,000 announced this week. what she seems to be saying is that she would be much more comfortable going back to the promise, which was never delivered, by david cameron, to get the figures down to tens of thousands. again, he was saying we need to get numbers down, but it depends on the state of the economy. she is saying, hang on, why don't we train our own fruit pickers? there is a different emphasis. some people on his side of the argument say, in fact, she is fuelling a future leadership bid, perhaps of the conservatives lose the next election, not trying to oust rishi sunak by any means. you can see the underlying tensions there and you only have to watch the press conference at the end of the g7 summit to see the frustration that

was all across rishi sunak from summit to see the frustration that was all across rishi sunakfrom head to toe, when he was asked about the behaviour of his home secretary, rather than the things he had been talking about at the summit. it is true that the underlying tensions are there. whether somebody did this to try to besmirch her reputation, i think that remains to be seen. however the story appeared, she still does have questions to answer. i think we have to be absolutely clear what the issue is. people discuss the rights and wrongs of this, this is not about whether she got a speeding fine, it is not about whether she was going on a speeding course, it's much narrower, more boring, but potentially more fatal to her political career, did she improperly asked civil servants to arrange a speeding course? because if she did, according to a former civil servant who spoke to the bbc last night, if there is a conflict between your private interests on your public duty, that is a breach of the ministerial code and that, as we know, can lead to a minister's

resignation. we know, can lead to a minister's resignation-— resignation. right, this is potentially _ resignation. right, this is potentially very _ resignation. right, this is potentially very serious i resignation. right, this is i potentially very serious because resignation. right, this is _ potentially very serious because she asked the civil service. on the other hand, i've heard commentators say that she holds high office, attorney general, the appearance on a speed awareness course might impact on her high office. so why shouldn't she, being an office holder, ask the people that are professionally there to support her? is that not a grey area? i’m professionally there to support her? is that not a grey area?— is that not a grey area? i'm not sure it is — is that not a grey area? i'm not sure it is a — is that not a grey area? i'm not sure it is a grey — is that not a grey area? i'm not sure it is a grey area. _ is that not a grey area? i'm not sure it is a grey area. you i is that not a grey area? i'm not| sure it is a grey area. you could sayjustifiably sure it is a grey area. you could say justifiably that she wanted to find out if it was possible to do a speed awareness course without anybody being present. some people ascribe motivations to that, did she want to keep her name out of the papers, for example? but it could be quite legitimate. there are concerns, as people have been talking about this morning, if other people have a go at her or not on the particular course, for example.

she has a very busy schedule. she was attorney general when she committed the offence, not home secretary, with close protection officers and the rest of it. but it is a legitimate question. that is separate from how she went about trying to arrange it, and if she was asking impartial civil servants to do something in her own personal interests, that is where she is in trouble. the question is whether rishi sunak will actually press the button on a formal inquiry, because that inquiry could then look at perhaps the messages she sent to the civil servants, texts or e—mails, did it look like she was instructing them rather thanjust did it look like she was instructing them rather than just asking for advice? that could get her deeper into trouble. rishi sunak is to be really aware, if he is going to press the button on the inquiry, that it might end up potentially losing yet another minister. don't forget, all of the cabinet ministers he has lost already, one of them through another inquiry, nadhim zahawi, he lost dominic raab through a different kind of inquiry. to some extent, hisjudgment would come into

question and he might want to avoid that. . , question and he might want to avoid that. ., , . ~ ., , that. thanks very much. apologies for bein: that. thanks very much. apologies for being slightly _ that. thanks very much. apologies for being slightly late, _ that. thanks very much. apologies for being slightly late, thanks - that. thanks very much. apologies for being slightly late, thanks for l for being slightly late, thanks for getting in touch. i will come to text soon. time for the news. and here is bethan. rishi sunak will discuss the home secretary's handling of a speeding offence with his ethics advisor later. the prime minister is considering how to respond to reports that suella braverman sought advice from civil servants about arranging a private speed awareness course last year. a government source has denied she breached the ministerial code. sir keir starmer says he will set the nhs in england a target of reducing deaths from heart disease and strokes by a quarter over 10 years if labour wins the next election. he's also committed to reducing

suicides within a first term. new research has found that some victims of the manchester arena attack have not received professional support despite wanting it. according to the report in the aftermath of the incident — which killed 22 people six years ago after an ariana grande concert — was limited. the home office says a review of support provided to victims of terrorism is under way. and it's understood the head of the northern ireland civil service has called for the four largest stormont parties to meet with her next week — to discuss a power—sharing government. there's not been a functioning executive for 15 months due to the dup's boycott over to post—brexit trade rules. after winning the most council seats in last weeks election, sinn fein says it proved voters want the power—sharing government to return. now the sport, with katy smith. manchester city defender kyle walker says winning the treble this season is the only way they could elevate themselves to one of the greatest teams of all time —

part one of three has been completed after they wrapped up the premier league title with a victory lap win over chelsea at the etihad. manager pep guardiola called his players extraordinary as they now prepare for the fa cup and champions league finals. meanwhile, spanish side valencia have condemned the racist chanting by home fans directed towards real madrid forward viniciusjunior yesterday, saying, "the club is investigating and will take the most severe measures." vinicius posted on social media yesertday saying, "la liga belongs to racists" after being subjected to chanting as his side lost. brooks koepka says it's incredible to win his fifth golf major and third us pga title. he won by two shots ahead of scheffler and hovland at a tough oak hill in new york state. and britain's geraint thomas closed the gap on overall giro d'italia leader bruno amirail to one minute 8 secondss on stage 15, which was won by america's brandon mcnulty.

at ten o'clock this morning we are going to talk about the nhs. keir starmer is making a speech at about 10.30 and he will set out labour's plans for the nhs in england, so until then we want to hear from you, how is the nhs for you? you will talk about a number of issues and i will come to those, tell you more about that at ten o'clock. then we want to hear about your recent

experiences. we have brilliant listeners and viewers coming at us in droves, telling us about this, saying stuff like this. a text saying what a pathetic subject to talk about on a radio station, a speeding fine? interesting, our political correspondence that it was the fact that she allegedly used civil servants inappropriately. in his words, it could be politically fatal. this one, leave this woman alone, she's only done what thousands of others have done! she tells it how it is. she's right, we are being invaded. this one, these

people ringing in, saying it is a fuss about nothing are the same people who said thatjohnson did no wrong. how wrong can you be again and again? this government are crooked and they should go. let's hear from you, whoever you are, whatever you think. maybe you agree with some of the strong lines we are hearing in her defence, or maybe you think absolutely that this is... what was her phrase, the guardian reading, tofu eating wokerati. i don't know how our callers would qualify. let's hear liam, wendy in cambridge, and chris in northampton. good morning. how are you doing this monday morning? great to have you on. wendy, not real name, in cambridge. what is your considered opinion on the now home secretary's

actions? , . ~ opinion on the now home secretary's actions? , ., ~ , ., ., ., actions? yes, thank you for having me on and — actions? yes, thank you for having me on and thanks _ actions? yes, thank you for having me on and thanks to _ actions? yes, thank you for having me on and thanks to all— actions? yes, thank you for having me on and thanks to all of- actions? yes, thank you for having me on and thanks to all of the - me on and thanks to all of the listeners, you've got a great show and it is my first time calling. i briefly wanted to say that i've been on one of these courses, and look at the attendees on the course, they all have to be adults because you have to be an adult to have a driving licence. so it's run by professional people that have to meet the standards, and the courses are always held in safe, guided locations. i don't see why anyone, really, would have a problem with attending one of those courses in terms of their own personal safety. i actually have a disability and i know that all of these areas that they hold courses, they will find you on that will suit you if you have a disability. from that extent, i don't understand why a person would ask for a private course. she

might have been worried that people might have been worried that people might ask her questions at the coffee break, because obviously there is no talking during the lesson. one of the other things is that part of doing it in a group is that part of doing it in a group is that you will learn from others” mistakes. i think on all accounts, she has really missed out on an opportunity to learn for her own benefit about driving, from other people's experiences, and her own experience, because i am sure she has been taken around in chauffeured cars as well, so she might have experiences that the common man doesn't, she could have shared that. the other thing is, what a great opportunity, an elected politician, by the people, for her not necessarily to be with those people voting for her, but with anybody, if they had a question. to voting for her, but with anybody, if they had a question.— voting for her, but with anybody, if they had a question. to own it, and have a photo-0p — they had a question. to own it, and have a photo-op and _ they had a question. to own it, and have a photo-op and everything. i have a photo—op and everything. amazing opportunity to be able to say, look, idid amazing opportunity to be able to say, look, i did wrong, this is what

people should do, speed awareness courses are fantastic. she would have come out smelling of roses, couldn't she? i have come out smelling of roses, couldn't she?— have come out smelling of roses, couldn't she? i think it was a great pr opportunity _ couldn't she? i think it was a great pr opportunity missed. _ couldn't she? i think it was a great pr opportunity missed. i _ couldn't she? i think it was a great pr opportunity missed. i think - couldn't she? i think it was a great | pr opportunity missed. i think that, in this day and age, this is what we are expecting. i do have a connection with one of the parties. i don't have a particularly strong political view, i don't have a particularly strong politicalview, my i don't have a particularly strong political view, my view is that we're all human beings, we should all be doing the decent thing, and if you want to be an elected representative, you must be looking out for all your people, and not just half of the people that have voted for you, all of the people of the country. be there, put yourself in the common man's shoes, so that you understand our issues. i’m in the common man's shoes, so that you understand our issues.— you understand our issues. i'm so leased you understand our issues. i'm so pleased that _ you understand our issues. i'm so pleased that you _ you understand our issues. i'm so pleased that you called, - you understand our issues. i'm so pleased that you called, trying - you understand our issues. i'm so pleased that you called, trying to | pleased that you called, trying to fix stuff. i appreciate that. i want to bring in chris in northampton. i

think you back suella, wendy is making some really good points, she should have gone on it? mi making some really good points, she should have gone on it?— should have gone on it? all right, she miaht should have gone on it? all right, she might have _ should have gone on it? all right, she might have been _ should have gone on it? all right, she might have been to _ should have gone on it? all right, she might have been to use - should have gone on it? all right, she might have been to use it - should have gone on it? all right, she might have been to use it as| should have gone on it? all right, | she might have been to use it as a publicity thing in her benefit, but on the other hand, it wasn't unreasonable for her to ask if she could have it privately, during the pandemic, people had courses over zoom and she might have been scared people might be filming her, as people might be filming her, as people do when they see politicians. the whole point is that people seem to be missing the point that because she couldn't have a private one she ended up having to take a harsher penalty points. most of us would take the speeding awareness course to avoid getting points. in the end, she had to take a harsher penalty. do you like her? but she had to take a harsher penalty. do you like her?— do you like her? but that's the 0 tion do you like her? but that's the option for _ do you like her? but that's the option for everybody, - do you like her? but that's the option for everybody, you - do you like her? but that's the option for everybody, you can l do you like her? but that's the - option for everybody, you can take a harsh_ option for everybody, you can take a harsh penalty points and a higher fine or— harsh penalty points and a higher fine or attend the course. my only

comment— fine or attend the course. my only comment about the pandemic and online _ comment about the pandemic and online thing is that online zoom during _ online thing is that online zoom during the pandemic, that was everybody doing that. nobody was singled _ everybody doing that. nobody was singled out to do it, ijust think that — singled out to do it, ijust think that i— singled out to do it, ijust think that i do _ singled out to do it, ijust think that... i do appreciate that you think_ that... i do appreciate that you think that _ that... i do appreciate that you think that she might be, you know, filmed _ think that she might be, you know, fitmed but— think that she might be, you know, filmed. but it's like walking into a hairdresser. as if that is people don't _ hairdresser. as if that is people don't go — hairdresser. as if that is people don't go to— hairdresser. as if that is people don't go to the hairdresser? is it that these — don't go to the hairdresser? is it that these people don't go to a shop? — that these people don't go to a shop? are they not living the life of an— shop? are they not living the life ofan ordinary shop? are they not living the life of an ordinary man? i guess that is what _ of an ordinary man? i guess that is what i _ of an ordinary man? i guess that is what i am— of an ordinary man? i guess that is what i am asking. it all comes down to the _ what i am asking. it all comes down to the test— what i am asking. it all comes down to the test of the ordinary man. you know_ to the test of the ordinary man. you know that _ to the test of the ordinary man. you know that catch phrase?— to the test of the ordinary man. you know that catch phrase? that's true. i appreciate — know that catch phrase? that's true. i appreciate her— know that catch phrase? that's true.

i appreciate her concern, _ know that catch phrase? that's true. i appreciate her concern, i— know that catch phrase? that's true. i appreciate her concern, i don't - i appreciate her concern, i don't like people _ i appreciate her concern, i don't like people video me or looking at me. like people video me or looking at me but, — like people video me or looking at me. but, you know, we have to get out there. — me. but, you know, we have to get out there, don't we?— out there, don't we? chris? might have missed _ out there, don't we? chris? might have missed an _ out there, don't we? chris? might have missed an opportunity - out there, don't we? chris? might have missed an opportunity to - out there, don't we?

do it. if rishi sunak cancelled her and decides to have an investigation to get her out, he is silly. he's notjust silly, he would be losing an awful lot of support. because she's good and he should not get rid of her. ., ~' she's good and he should not get rid of her. ., ~ . ., , of her. you like the cut of her 'ib and what she d of her. you like the cut of her 'ib and what she says? i of her. you like the cut of her 'ib and what she says? thinki of her. you like the cut of her 'ib and what she says? think shei of her. you like the cut of herjib and what she says? think she is| and what she says? think she is fearless and _ and what she says? think she is fearless and will _ and what she says? think she is fearless and will get _ and what she says? think she is fearless and will get on - and what she says? think she is fearless and will get on with - and what she says? think she is fearless and will get on with the job, that is what we need, because people in this country don't want immigration figures we have got. who immigration figures we have got. who is behind the news coming out, do you think? i is behind the news coming out, do ou think? , ., .., ., you think? i understand it came out in the daily — you think? i understand it came out in the daily telegraph, _ you think? i understand it came out in the daily telegraph, a _ you think? i understand it came out in the daily telegraph, a right-wing in the daily telegraph, a right—wing newspaper, but i have... i’m in the daily telegraph, a right-wing newspaper, but i have. . ._ newspaper, but i have... i'm not sure it did. _ newspaper, but i have... i'm not sure it did, the _ newspaper, but i have... i'm not sure it did, the daily _ newspaper, but i have... i'm not sure it did, the daily telegraph l sure it did, the daily telegraph were reporting on it, i think they were reporting on it, i think they were saying that they think it has been leaked for nefarious reasons by her political opponents. i been leaked for nefarious reasons by her political opponents.— her political opponents. i would not be surprised _ her political opponents. i would not be surprised if— her political opponents. i would not be surprised if that _ her political opponents. i would not be surprised if that is _ her political opponents. i would not be surprised if that is true. - her political opponents. i would not be surprised if that is true. they . be surprised if that is true. they are out to get her, the left wing, i

want a strong people in the government in the tory party, and she is a target for them. this word the blob is — she is a target for them. this word the blob is coming _ she is a target for them. this word the blob is coming up _ she is a target for them. this word the blob is coming up a _ she is a target for them. this word the blob is coming up a lot, - she is a target for them. this word the blob is coming up a lot, what l she is a target for them. this word | the blob is coming up a lot, what is your understanding of that? i understand from what is on television that they are people in the civil service who don't like the government and will do anything to discredit them, and use any kind of leaked information they can to make their situation impossible. so, there's a whole movement around it to slur people. this there's a whole movement around it to slur people-— to slur people. this phrase, the blob, to slur people. this phrase, the blob. some _ to slur people. this phrase, the blob, some people _ to slur people. this phrase, the blob, some people say - to slur people. this phrase, the blob, some people say it - to slur people. this phrase, the blob, some people say it is - to slur people. this phrase, the i blob, some people say it is looking for enemies, it has become the vernacular of political attack of the moment. it was the sunday times that broke the story. darren, does shirley have a point, a bit of wokery going on in the attacks, she would say? wokery going on in the attacks, she would sa ? ~ wokery going on in the attacks, she wouldsa?

wokery going on in the attacks, she would say?— would say? well, possibly. i think this is all a _ would say? well, possibly. i think this is all a legacy _ would say? well, possibly. i think this is all a legacy of _ would say? well, possibly. i think this is all a legacy of boris - this is all a legacy of boris johnson _ this is all a legacy of boris johnson. he comes along, does what he wants. _ johnson. he comes along, does what he wants, thinks what he wants, and the legacy— he wants, thinks what he wants, and the legacy that he is leaving is that we — the legacy that he is leaving is that we are left with a government that we are left with a government thatiust _ that we are left with a government thatjust think they that we are left with a government that just think they can do what the hell they— that just think they can do what the hell they want. whenever they want. and they— hell they want. whenever they want. and they think they can get away with it _ and they think they can get away with it if— and they think they can get away with it. if they don't get away with it, they— with it. if they don't get away with it, they start bullying, dominic raab. — it, they start bullying, dominic raab, gavin williamson, all of the people _ raab, gavin williamson, all of the people like that. we have a government that isjust people like that. we have a government that is just all over the place _ government that is just all over the place and — government that is just all over the place. and it is all the legacy of boris _ place. and it is all the legacy of borisjohnson. he place. and it is all the legacy of boris johnson.— place. and it is all the legacy of boris johnson. he set the tone of raettin boris johnson. he set the tone of getting away _ boris johnson. he set the tone of getting away with _ boris johnson. he set the tone of getting away with it? _ boris johnson. he set the tone of getting away with it? without - getting away with it? without a doubt. yeah. _ getting away with it? without a doubt. yeah. i— getting away with it? without a doubt. yeah. i mean, - getting away with it? without a i doubt. yeah. i mean, throughout, the stuff comihg _ doubt. yeah. i mean, throughout, the stuff coming out through the pandemic, it isjust unbelievable. from _ pandemic, it isjust unbelievable. from him — pandemic, it isjust unbelievable. from him. and the knock—on effect on the whole _ from him. and the knock—on effect on the whole of—

from him. and the knock—on effect on the whole of the cabinet, they are thinking, — the whole of the cabinet, they are thinking, oh, well, if he can do it, we can— thinking, oh, well, if he can do it, we can do— thinking, oh, well, if he can do it, we can do it _ thinking, oh, well, if he can do it, we can do it. it does come trickling down _ we can do it. it does come trickling down from — we can do it. it does come trickling down from the last four years of him, _ down from the last four years of him. and — down from the last four years of him, and his etonism, thinking he is above _ him, and his etonism, thinking he is above the _ him, and his etonism, thinking he is above the law, they all think they are above — above the law, they all think they are above the law and they can do what _ are above the law and they can do what the — are above the law and they can do what the hell they want. it's just horrific — what the hell they want. it's just horrific. politics in this country is horrific. politics in this country is being — horrific. politics in this country is being brought down to the gutter. and it's _ is being brought down to the gutter. and it's all— is being brought down to the gutter. and it's all boris johnson. is being brought down to the gutter. and it's all borisjohnson. react is being brought down to the gutter. and it's all boris johnson.— and it's all boris johnson. react to that, and it's all boris johnson. react to that. shirley- _ and it's all boris johnson. react to that. shirley. i— and it's all boris johnson. react to that, shirley. i don't— and it's all boris johnson. react to that, shirley. i don't agree - and it's all boris johnson. react to that, shirley. i don't agree with i that, shirley. i don't agree with everything _ that, shirley. i don't agree with everything he _ that, shirley. i don't agree with everything he said, _ that, shirley. i don't agree with everything he said, boris- that, shirley. i don't agree with i everything he said, boris johnson, everything he said, borisjohnson, as far as i am concerned, he was not as far as i am concerned, he was not as good as he should have been, he didn't finish off the brexiting. he was awful, he lied, and lied, lied. he couldn't — was awful, he lied, and lied, lied. he couldn't tell the truth if you paid he couldn't tell the truth if you paid hint —

he couldn't tell the truth if you paid him. he he couldn't tell the truth if you aid him. , ., ., , ., paid him. he should have been a whole lot better _ paid him. he should have been a whole lot better than _ paid him. he should have been a whole lot better than he - paid him. he should have been a whole lot better than he was. i l whole lot better than he was. i thought rishi sunak would be a clean sweep, but he is a bit weak as well. suella braverman is strong, that's the main thing. we suella braverman is strong, that's the main thing.— the main thing. we have a prime minister but _ the main thing. we have a prime minister but also _ the main thing. we have a prime minister but also had _ the main thing. we have a prime minister but also had a _ the main thing. we have a prime minister but also had a fine i the main thing. we have a prime minister but also had a fine for i minister but also had a fine for breaking — minister but also had a fine for breaking the rules of lockdown. they are all— breaking the rules of lockdown. they are all the _ breaking the rules of lockdown. they are all the same. it doesn't matter if are all the same. it doesn't matter if they— are all the same. it doesn't matter if they are — are all the same. it doesn't matter if they are weak, strong or indifferent. they would know the price _ indifferent. they would know the price of— indifferent. they would know the price of a — indifferent. they would know the price of a pint of milk. keir starmer — price of a pint of milk. keir starmer was _ price of a pint of milk. keir starmer was suspected i price of a pint of milk. ila: " starmer was suspected of price of a pint of milk. i;a: " starmer was suspected of breaking the rules are looked on as well. suspected. there was never a fine, just to remind people. == suspected. there was never a fine, just to remind people.— just to remind people. -- in lockdown- _ just to remind people. -- in lockdown. lee _ just to remind people. -- in lockdown. lee in _ just to remind people. -- in i lockdown. lee in gordonstoun. just to remind people. -- in - lockdown. lee in gordonstoun. thank ou ve lockdown. lee in gordonstoun. thank you very much _ lockdown. lee in gordonstoun. thank you very much indeed, _ lockdown. lee in gordonstoun. thank you very much indeed, shirley - lockdown. lee in gordonstoun. thank

you very much indeed, shirley, i lockdown. lee in gordonstoun. thank you very much indeed, shirley, carry| you very much indeed, shirley, carry on, lee. it’s you very much indeed, shirley, carry on, lee. �*, ., .,, .,, on, lee. it's laughable when i was watchin: on, lee. it's laughable when i was watching the _ on, lee. it's laughable when i was watching the news _ on, lee. it's laughable when i was watching the news this _ on, lee. it's laughable when i was watching the news this morning, | on, lee. it's laughable when i was| watching the news this morning, if it was any other person in britain, we would have to do the speed awareness course, not on your own. we should all be treated the same. on the other hand, if she was speeding, and she did hurt someone in the car, where would she be now? you've got to look at this. we all have rules to follow. these people put into government make these rules. she has broken the law in this land, that he should not speed on the road she was driving. she broke that law, she should be treated the same as anyone else. that is my problem, you know? iaunt’eii. that is my problem, you know? well, she aid that is my problem, you know? well, she paid the — that is my problem, you know? well, she paid the points. _ that is my problem, you know? well, she paid the points. she _ that is my problem, you know? well, she paid the points. she paid the fine. , �* ., , fine. doesn't matter if she paid the fine, she should _ fine. doesn't matter if she paid the fine, she should not _ fine. doesn't matter if she paid the fine, she should not have - fine. doesn't matter if she paid the fine, she should not have been i fine, she should not have been speeding in the first place. the

archbishop _ speeding in the first place. the archbishop of _ speeding in the first place. the archbishop of canterbury was done for it to the other day, he's not going to hell. for it to the other day, he's not going to hell-— going to hell. sorry, i don't believe in _ going to hell. sorry, i don't believe in religious - going to hell. sorry, i don't believe in religious stuff. . going to hell. sorry, i don't. believe in religious stuff. me neither. but _ believe in religious stuff. me neither. but i'mjust believe in religious stuff. me neither. but i'm just saying, the archbishop of canterbury, an avatar of morality. you can sneak over. i've never done it, people do it. you can unwittingly sneak over the limit. she wasn't doing 70 and a 30 zone. it happens. that limit. she wasn't doing 70 and a 30 zone. it happens.— zone. it happens. at the end of the day- -- the — zone. it happens. at the end of the day... the archbishop _ zone. it happens. at the end of the day. .. the archbishop of— zone. it happens. at the end of the| day... the archbishop of canterbury doesn't make the rules. it doesn't make the law. doesn't make the rules. it doesn't make the law— doesn't make the rules. it doesn't make the law. he's in the house of lords. make the law. he's in the house of lords- he — make the law. he's in the house of lords. he does _ make the law. he's in the house of lords. he does make _ make the law. he's in the house of lords. he does make the _ make the law. he's in the house of lords. he does make the rules, i lords. he does make the rules, thourh. lords. he does make the rules, though- he's— lords. he does make the rules, though. he's talking _ lords. he does make the rules, though. he's talking about i lords. he does make the rules, | though. he's talking about trying lords. he does make the rules, i though. he's talking about trying to have an influence _ though. he's talking about trying to have an influence on _ though. he's talking about trying to have an influence on asylum - though. he's talking about trying to have an influence on asylum policy| have an influence on asylum policy and migration policy. so, yes, he's one of the unelected... he’s and migration policy. so, yes, he's one of the unelected. . ._ one of the unelected. .. he's all for treatin: one of the unelected. .. he's all for

treating people _ one of the unelected. .. he's all for treating people fairly. _ one of the unelected. .. he's all for treating people fairly. this - treating people fairly. this government doesn't treat people fairly. look at the pandemic, look at what borisjohnson has done. he had parties while people couldn't attend their family's funerals. let's go to ivan. yes, less the little girl yes, let's go to ivan in buckingham. hello, yes, ithink hello, yes, i think that if suella proved to be a bit of a distraction, you need to focus, really. one little thing, they pointed out the difference between 32 mph and 30 mph, the difference in impact, so it is something you've got to focus on. if she had a private occasion, nobody would be distracted by a high profile person being there. what profile person being there. what would have _

profile person being there. what would have happened _ profile person being there. what would have happened if she had been there, people getting selfies, talking to her and arguing with her? possibly, that is the society we live in. she is a government figure. there were two ex policeman there, anybody could mess up with their speeding and end up on the course. it doesn't matter who you are. car are so responsive nowadays, soon you are so responsive nowadays, soon you are up higherthan are so responsive nowadays, soon you are up higher than you think when you are driving, speed wise. yes, she would be better off... it's not a free course, you have to pay 90 quid for it, so you do get a bit of a fine as well, but you don't get any points on your licence. peter in leeds. any points on your licence. peter in leeds- yeah. _ any points on your licence. peter in leeds- yeah. i— any points on your licence. peter in leeds. yeah, i agree _ any points on your licence. peter in leeds. yeah, i agree with - any points on your licence. peter in leeds. yeah, i agree with what i any points on your licence. peter in leeds. yeah, i agree with what the j leeds. yeah, i agree with what the last chapter _ leeds. yeah, i agree with what the last chapter said. _ leeds. yeah, i agree with what the last chapter said. i _ leeds. yeah, i agree with what the last chapter said. i did _ leeds. yeah, i agree with what the last chapter said. i did a _ leeds. yeah, i agree with what the last chapter said. i did a speed i last chapter said. i did a speed awareness course by cab magazine in

january. _ awareness course by cab magazine in january. -- — awareness course by cab magazine in january,. —— by zouma. has she turned — january,. —— by zouma. has she turned up — january,. —— by zouma. has she turned up for— january,. —— by zouma. has she turned up for a public one, she would — turned up for a public one, she would have _ turned up for a public one, she would have learned nothing, she has limited _ would have learned nothing, she has limited a _ would have learned nothing, she has limited a abilities anyway, she would — limited a abilities anyway, she would have been distracted by the security— would have been distracted by the security men, it would have been untidy— security men, it would have been untidy if— security men, it would have been untidy if she had been assaulted. nobody— untidy if she had been assaulted. nobody else at the speed awareness would _ nobody else at the speed awareness would have learned what the last chap said. — would have learned what the last chap said, about 32 miles being more dangerous— chap said, about 32 miles being more dangerous than 30. basically, she is a personal— dangerous than 30. basically, she is a personal very limited ability, anybody— a personal very limited ability, anybody who stand up in front of the days for— anybody who stand up in front of the days for the — anybody who stand up in front of the days for the back to party, looking like days for the back to party, looking like she _ days for the back to party, looking like she did. you days for the back to party, looking like she did-— like she did. you are talking about the national _ like she did. you are talking about the national conservatives? i the national conservatives? wordplay. the national conservatives? wordplay-— the national conservatives? word-la. ., , ., , wordplay. that is the nat c party, it was on bbc— wordplay. that is the nat c party, it was on bbc on _ wordplay. that is the nat c party, it was on bbc on friday _ wordplay. that is the nat c party, it was on bbc on friday night. i it was on bbc on friday night. somebody else has done it. her and

the rest of the tory cabinet, they are very limited and ability. she probably had great difficulty using the computer profile to actually bootin the computer profile to actually boot in herself anyway. had she turned up, she would have distracted everybody else and she probably wouldn't have learned anything herself. so it's betterfor her to sit down. i think we need to make reasonable adjustments for people of limited ability, and a reasonable adjustment for her is to give her it over zouma. adjustment for her is to give her it over zouma— adjustment for her is to give her it over zouma. . ., ,, ., over zouma. whatever you think about suella braverman, _ over zouma. whatever you think about suella braverman, she _ over zouma. whatever you think about suella braverman, she is _ over zouma. whatever you think about suella braverman, she is not - over zouma. whatever you think about suella braverman, she is not stupid. i suella braverman, she is not stupid. anybody who can think she is taking the public with her can't have much ability. the public with her can't have much abili . . the public with her can't have much abili . ,, ., , the public with her can't have much abili .,, , , ,, ability. she has her supporters. she sa s stuff ability. she has her supporters. she says stuff and _ ability. she has her supporters. she says stuff and rings _ ability. she has her supporters. she says stuff and rings bells, _ ability. she has her supporters. she says stuff and rings bells, she i ability. she has her supporters. she says stuff and rings bells, she does| says stuff and rings bells, she does resonate with some of you, some of the listeners and viewers. that is the listeners and viewers. that is the nature of it. marmite. love,

hate. many people who are neutral about suella braverman. this isjust another chapter in the suella story. thank you for the contributions this morning. we will see what happens to her when it comes to the advice. the nhs: how is it for you? sir keir starmer will set out labour's plans for the nhs in england shortly. he'll propose new targets to cut deaths from heart disease, strokes and suicide. he wants more emphasis on community care, digital methods and preventative care. there are currently a record 7.3 million people waiting for routine hospital treatments. at the end of march,

there were more than 10,000 people who'd waited longer than 18 months for their appointment. there's a target for 85% of cancer patients to start treatment within 62 days of an urgent gp referral. this hasn't been achieved since 2015. a conservative party source told us cutting waiting times is one of the government's top five priorities, and that there has already been major progress on reducing very long waits. so, as we wait for sir keir to tell us what he'll do to fix the nhs, i want to hear your experience of it. if you've used it recently, if you're on a waiting list, if you work in it. the nhs: how is it for you?

and here is the news from bethan holmes. thanks, nicky. the prime minister will meet his ethics adviser to discuss allegations that the home secretary, suella braverman, broke the ministerial code in her handling of a speeding offence. she allegedly asked civil servants about arranging a private speed awareness course to avoid attending a group session. a government source has denied she breached the code. the labour leader, sir keir starmer, says he'll introduce new nhs targets on cutting deaths in england from heart disease, strokes and suicide if his party wins the next general election. in a speech shortly, sir keir will pledge to get the nhs "off its knees". two leading academics are calling for all potential work—related suicides to be investigated by the health and safety executive. writing in the british medical journal, the experts say change is needed after the death of the head teacher ruth perry

following an ofsted inspection. ofsted says it carries out its work professionally and sensitvely. and the natural history museum in london, the metropolitan arts centre and glasgow's the burrell collection have made the shortlist for this year's museum of the year. scapa flow museum in orkney and leighton house in london complete the list of five competeing for £120,000. we are talking about the nhs, your experiences of it, the nhs in england, and as i mentioned to you,, sir keir starmer will be making a big speech, there will be few of

those between now and the next general election. nick triggle is bbc health correspondent. big challenges at the moment, what is sir keir starmer going to say? as you say, huge pressures on the nhs, the key themes will you say, huge pressures on the nhs, the key theme— the key themes will be tackling waitin: the key themes will be tackling waiting times, _ the key themes will be tackling waiting times, that _ the key themes will be tackling waiting times, that big - the key themes will be tackling waiting times, that big backlogj the key themes will be tackling i waiting times, that big backlog in hospital treatment that has developed since the start of the pandemic. moving out into the community, so people with long—term conditions can get support outside of hospital. and greater use of technology as well to bring the nhs into the digital age. what is interesting, quite remarkable, is how familiar are some of these themes are, because over the last decade or so, i think many of the manifestos from all the parties have mentioned these things, so promising is one thing, delivering is another. what are the big challenges at the moment? ~ ., ~ ., . , ., moment? well, the workforce is a hue moment? well, the workforce is a huge issue. _ moment? well, the workforce is a huge issue. one — moment? well, the workforce is a huge issue, one in _ moment? well, the workforce is a huge issue, one in ten _ moment? well, the workforce is a huge issue, one in ten posts i moment? well, the workforce is a

huge issue, one in ten posts is i huge issue, one in ten posts is vacant, and unless that is tackled, all the different policies that labour is announcing today on tackling the backlog in treatment, getting people to cancer treatment more quickly, shortening the weight in a&e, will be very difficult to solve if the staff are not there. what we are yet to get his a financial commitment, how much they will invest in the nhs. labour say that until they get nearer to the general election, given the state of the public finances, they cannot set out how much money they will spend. we do not know how much the tories or liberal democrats will be spending, but that obviously will be key — without more money, it is hard to get more staff in. they always say it is not about money but efficiency, and there is a say it is not about money but efficiency, and there is- say it is not about money but efficiency, and there is a big row about private — efficiency, and there is a big row about private provision - efficiency, and there is a big row about private provision in - efficiency, and there is a big row about private provision in one i efficiency, and there is a big row. about private provision in one way or another, about private provision in one way oranother, isn't about private provision in one way or another, isn't there?— or another, isn't there? there is, and labour— or another, isn't there? there is, and labour have _ or another, isn't there? there is, and labour have been _ or another, isn't there? there is, and labour have been talking i or another, isn't there? there is, and labour have been talking a i or another, isn't there? there is, l and labour have been talking a lot about that, underjeremy corbyn they

were very cautious about using the private sector, getting nhs patients treated in the private sector to reduce waiting times. but wes streeting, the shadow health secretary, and keir starmer have talked a lot about embracing the private sector, getting them to treat more patients. the private sector said it could increase the number of patients, it is seeing 1.5 million a year, nhs patients treated by the private sector, they say they could treat 15—20% more, but that is not a silver bullet for tackling the backlog in waiting times, but it could help. we also expect to hear from the government in the coming weeks about that. bind from the government in the coming weeks about that.— weeks about that. and the effects of, a, the pandemic, _ weeks about that. and the effects of, a, the pandemic, and - weeks about that. and the effects of, a, the pandemic, and the i weeks about that. and the effects| of, a, the pandemic, and the wave weeks about that. and the effects i of, a, the pandemic, and the wave of strikes we have had recently and are continuing to happen?— continuing to happen? indeed, in terms of the _ continuing to happen? indeed, in terms of the pandemic, - continuing to happen? indeed, in terms of the pandemic, we i continuing to happen? indeed, in terms of the pandemic, we saw. continuing to happen? indeed, in i terms of the pandemic, we saw the waiting list for hospital treatment increase from just over 4 million,

there is now more than 7 million people on that waiting list. we are talking about one in eight or nine people in england waiting for hospital treatment, and that is not predicted to start falling until next spring, maybe just before a general election, and of course the industrial action we have seen in the health service as a sort of slowed any progress that was being made on this. i think we have had just over 500,000 appointments cancelled directly because of strikes by nurses, ambulance workers and junior doctors. strikes by nurses, ambulance workers andjunior doctors. now, certainly, and junior doctors. now, certainly, nurses andjunior doctors. now, certainly, nurses are re—balloting for strike action, so that could continue, and thejunior action, so that could continue, and the junior doctors dispute is far from over, so those industrial disputes will have to be resolved as well if we are going to get that backlog down.— well if we are going to get that backlog down. well if we are going to get that backlo: down. , ., . backlog down. remind us of the nhs jurisdictions. — backlog down. remind us of the nhs jurisdictions, we _ backlog down. remind us of the nhs jurisdictions, we are _ backlog down. remind us of the nhs jurisdictions, we are talking - backlog down. remind us of the nhs jurisdictions, we are talking about i jurisdictions, we are talking about the nhs in england today, a lot of controversy about the nhs in scotland and wales as well. but this

is england we are talking about today, isn't it?— today, isn't it? specifically england. _ today, isn't it? specifically england, health _ today, isn't it? specifically england, health is - today, isn't it? specifically england, health is a i today, isn't it? specifically. england, health is a devolved matter, is the westminster government setting out policies for the health service in england. many of these problems, whether it is backlog in waiting times, lengths of weights in a —— lengths of waiting times in a&e, days have not been many years in other parts of the uk, they are not unique to england. we have not seen as much industrial action in scotland as we have seen in england, nor in wales, but the problem is the pandemic has had and the staffing shortages are seen in all four nations. i the staffing shortages are seen in all four nations.— the staffing shortages are seen in all four nations. i want to ask one more thing. _ all four nations. i want to ask one more thing, and _ all four nations. i want to ask one more thing, and then _ all four nations. i want to ask one more thing, and then we - all four nations. i want to ask one more thing, and then we will- all four nations. i want to ask one | more thing, and then we will come all four nations. i want to ask one i more thing, and then we will come to some callers in a second, sir keir starmer is going to talk at about 10:30am this morning, is he? yes.

starmer is going to talk at about 10:30am this morning, is he? yes, we ex-ect him 10:30am this morning, is he? yes, we expect him to — 10:30am this morning, is he? yes, we expect him to speak— 10:30am this morning, is he? yes, we expect him to speak for— 10:30am this morning, is he? yes, we expect him to speak for nearly - 10:30am this morning, is he? yes, we expect him to speak for nearly half i expect him to speak for nearly half an hour in setting out these plans. he is proposing new targets to cut deaths from heart disease, stroke and suicide. that is a massive challenge, given the mental health pandemic in this country. at the moment, people taking their own life. what is the approach there going to be?— life. what is the approach there urointo be? . . , going to be? suicide is something we do not talk about _ going to be? suicide is something we do not talk about enough _ going to be? suicide is something we do not talk about enough and - going to be? suicide is something we do not talk about enough and we i going to be? suicide is something we do not talk about enough and we do i do not talk about enough and we do not hear enough about. the figures have been quite stark, because during the 1980s and onwards, the suicide rate was falling, but post—2008, the financial crash, the suicide rate has been increasing, three quarters of suicides are in men, it is one of the leading causes in the under 35s in terms of deaths, so we would expect him to set out more about what is going to do in terms of getting access to mental

health, and in particular sort of gp and care in the community and making sure people can get support quickly. that is the key thing with mental health, i think we will get quite a bit of detail on that. band health, i think we will get quite a bit of detail on that.— bit of detail on that. and proper prescription _ bit of detail on that. and proper prescription as _ bit of detail on that. and proper prescription as well. _ bit of detail on that. and proper prescription as well. getting i bit of detail on that. and properj prescription as well. getting the right drugs, if that is the route back. we did an amazing phone in on male mental healthjust back. we did an amazing phone in on male mental health just the other day. nick, thank you very much, nick triggle, our health correspondent. be right with you, maryam, ian in rossendale, juliet is in north wales, is it? a different jurisdiction, as i said, and martin in cumbria. and philippa in basingstoke, i want to go with you, philippa, you are a nurse, you know that! good morning, philippa, what is going on? how is the nhs for you and everybody else at the moment? well, i think anybody who is working

for or experiencing care from the nhs know that it is in trouble, don't they? i trained back in the 19805, don't they? i trained back in the 1980s, and i havejust taken early retirement because i am done, nikki. we can't deliver the care that we want to, and there are patients coming to harm every single day that you go to work, and it is awful for nursing and all health care staff to not be able to give the care that patients deserve and need. what not be able to give the care that patients deserve and need. what is needed to sort _ patients deserve and need. what is needed to sort it _ patients deserve and need. what is needed to sort it out? _ patients deserve and need. what is needed to sort it out? not - patients deserve and need. what is needed to sort it out? not a - patients deserve and need. what is needed to sort it out? not a magic| needed to sort it out? not a magic bullet. i think— needed to sort it out? not a magic bullet. i think all— needed to sort it out? not a magic bullet. i think all of _ needed to sort it out? not a magic bullet. i think all of the _ needed to sort it out? not a magic bullet. i think all of the policies i bullet. i think all of the policies that we see, they can be written and can be beautiful and eloquent, but without a workforce strategy that covers nursing, all health care professionals, notjust nursing, medicine, physio, without a workforce strategy, they will fail. in the last decade, they have all

failed, we get another target, and we become a service that is driven by targets, driven by targets and not driven by quality. ilick by targets, driven by targets and not driven by quality. nick triggle is still here. _ not driven by quality. nick triggle is still here, our— not driven by quality. nick triggle is still here, our health _ is still here, our health correspondent, we have been hearing the t word, driven by targets, from the t word, driven by targets, from the early 1990s, and hearing how professionals express the kind of frustration we are hearing there from philippa. are we going to get more targets? i from philippa. are we going to get more targets?— more targets? i think labour will recommit to _ more targets? i think labour will recommit to targets, _ more targets? i think labour will recommit to targets, and - more targets? i think labour will recommit to targets, and i i more targets? i think labour will recommit to targets, and i think| more targets? i think labour will i recommit to targets, and i think the government will, but it is interesting, talking about the workforce planned there. the government have been promising a workforce plan for over a year, and it is still not been published, we are told it should be published before mps break up before the summer, but everyone kind of agrees, a lack of planning in terms of the workforce, how many doctors and nurses we need, it is one of the crucial reasons there are such a staffing shortages, and we are having to rely on recruiting particularly nurses from abroad, i

think last year more than half the nurses who joined the nhs came from abroad, and international recruitment is expensive, we are often taking these nurses from countries who have shortages themselves, so it is not a long—term solution. themselves, so it is not a long-term solution. �* ., themselves, so it is not a long-term solution. . ., ., ., , solution. and one of the arguments arainst solution. and one of the arguments against targets. _ solution. and one of the arguments against targets, not _ solution. and one of the arguments against targets, not targets - solution. and one of the arguments against targets, not targets per i solution. and one of the arguments against targets, not targets per se, j against targets, not targets per se, is that they need to be well thought through and thought out and presented, because they can be distorted, can't they, philippa? yes, targets in and of themselves, i think are helpful, you need to have something to aim for, but we need to make sure that we are resourcing the people delivering the care to be able to do so. there is no point putting in a target which we will fail, because it doesn't help patients it doesn't help the staff, and you're absolutely right, international recruitment has been a mainstay. if we provided the training, the salaries, and the work life experience, i think actually staff, it is notjust money,

nightly, it is about being able to go to work, to a good job and go home at the end of the day... {liiq home at the end of the day... 0k, phili aa, home at the end of the day... 0k, philippa. thank— home at the end of the day... 0k, philippa, thank you _ home at the end of the day... ok, philippa, thank you very much indeed. lots of great call is coming up, i will ask you all to be as brief as you possibly can. myra is in southampton, i'm going to be doing a lot of rude interrupting in the next 15 minutes or so, keir starmer around about them, but myra first off, and others. was it a good experience you had recently? iii experience you had recently? hi there, nicky, yeah, i had a baby in may last— there, nicky, yeah, i had a baby in may last year at my local hospital in southampton, princess anne? and they were _ in southampton, princess anne? and they were absolutely fantastic. both my babies. if i'm being honest and i'm really— my babies. if i'm being honest and i'm really sort of... nit—picking here. _ i'm really sort of... nit—picking here. but— i'm really sort of... nit—picking here, but you know, generally they were _

here, but you know, generally they were fantastic. afterwards, perhaps not so. _ were fantastic. afterwards, perhaps not so, because they didn't have the staff there. — not so, because they didn't have the staff there, and that was really, you know. — staff there, and that was really, you know, really obvious. but actually— you know, really obvious. but actually during the birth they were absolutely amazing, and i suffered postnatal— absolutely amazing, and i suffered postnatal depression as well afterwards. they gave me contact details _ afterwards. they gave me contact details and they were very, very open _ details and they were very, very open with— details and they were very, very open with me and said that, you know, _ open with me and said that, you know. this — open with me and said that, you know, this is what you need to do, this know, this is what you need to do, this is— know, this is what you need to do, this is how— know, this is what you need to do, this is how we can help you. so they were _ this is how we can help you. so they were fantastic. i have got a lot of admiration— were fantastic. i have got a lot of admiration for them, and the nhs in general— admiration for them, and the nhs in general needs to be protected, each and every— general needs to be protected, each and every one of us at some point... yeah, _ and every one of us at some point... yeah. people— and every one of us at some point... yeah, people with great heart and great commitment. i am so sorry about what you went through afterwards, it is something that we have discussed before, postnatal depression, and i would really like to again. keep in touch on that. we haven't got time to explore it now, but thank you very much. you

haven't got time to explore it now, but thank you very much.— but thank you very much. you are welcome- — but thank you very much. you are welcome. good _ but thank you very much. you are welcome. good to _ but thank you very much. you are welcome. good to hear _ but thank you very much. you are welcome. good to hear that i but thank you very much. you are welcome. good to hear that you | but thank you very much. you are i welcome. good to hear that you are back u- welcome. good to hear that you are back up and — welcome. good to hear that you are back up and running, _ welcome. good to hear that you are back up and running, and _ back up and running, and congratulations on a baby! martin, how was it for _ congratulations on a baby! martin, how was it for you _ congratulations on a baby! martin, how was it for you in _ congratulations on a baby! martin, how was it for you in cumbria? i congratulations on a baby! martin, i how was it for you in cumbria? good morning, nicky. in february 2020, pre—pandemic, i had to go into hospital with a gastric bleed. i didn't realise how serious it was at the time. anyway, when i got there, i was admitted immediately, but eight hours later, i had a cardiac arrest from the blade, because i was losing so much blood. and basically, there was so much stuff that they couldn't prioritise people that were coming in. i had to go into intensive care for a week, i was very lucky to survive, and whilst on the ward, it was my wife attended to me, using, you know them cardboard party thing is to collect blood in? nevertheless, i went into cardiac arrest and actually died. then i went into intensive care, and people

were taking it seriously enough, and that was pre—pandemic, nicky. not post! that was pre-pandemic, nicky. not -ost! ., ., ., no, that was pre-pandemic, nicky. not post!— no. i'm i that was pre-pandemic, nicky. not i post!— no. i'm going post! how are you now? no, i'm going to have long-term _ post! how are you now? no, i'm going to have long-term health _ post! how are you now? no, i'm going to have long-term health problems, i| to have long—term health problems, i have not come to you to whinge, nicky, i am going to have heart and main organ problems, well, forever, i am on medication, but the public needs to listen to the nurses. they just don't have this staff. they have got the skills and the willingness, but they don't have the star. a willingness, but they don't have the star. n, ., .., willingness, but they don't have the star. ., ,, ., ., star. martin, great call, sharon in brighouse. _ star. martin, great call, sharon in brighouse. l— star. martin, great call, sharon in brighouse, i was _ star. martin, great call, sharon in brighouse, i was it for— star. martin, great call, sharon in brighouse, i was it for you? i star. martin, great call, sharon in| brighouse, i was it for you? hello, brighouse, iwas it for you? hello, nic , brighouse, i was it for you? hello, nicky. yes. — brighouse, i was it for you? hello, nicky. yes. my _ brighouse, i was it for you? hello, nicky, yes, my doctor _ brighouse, i was it for you? hello, nicky, yes, my doctor has - brighouse, i was it for you? hello, nicky, yes, my doctor has been i brighouse, i was it for you? hello, i nicky, yes, my doctor has been very, very good. _ nicky, yes, my doctor has been very, very good, but unfortunately i am waiting _ very good, but unfortunately i am waiting a — very good, but unfortunately i am waiting a month for an urgent referral. _ waiting a month for an urgent referral, which is supposed to take two weeks. — referral, which is supposed to take two weeks, and that has been stressful. _ two weeks, and that has been stressful, waiting so long for it,

especially— stressful, waiting so long for it, especially when you think you will be seen _ especially when you think you will be seen within two weeks, it takes a month. _ be seen within two weeks, it takes a month. and — be seen within two weeks, it takes a month, and every little appointment for blood _ month, and every little appointment for blood tests is all taking longer than you — for blood tests is all taking longer than you would expect, and so the whole _ than you would expect, and so the whole thing, without getting any answers. — whole thing, without getting any answers, has been drawn out. thank ou. we answers, has been drawn out. thank you- we are — answers, has been drawn out. thank you- we are getting _ answers, has been drawn out. thank you. we are getting greater- answers, has been drawn out. t�*uafua; you. we are getting greater little portraits. sharon, let's talk again sometime. all the best. kay in saint bees in cumbria, how was it for you? oh, hi, nicky, my doctorwent in bees in cumbria, how was it for you? oh, hi, nicky, my doctor went in for an operation, she had been waiting about four years, but that wasn't an issue, we understood that. she had been for two pre—op assessments and the actual operation was being done in a big hospital 38 miles away. so we arrived and managed to get there before 7:45. as requested, in the

morning, and she was second on the list to go down, and we waited and we waited, and she was taken in, and then eventually she was texting me from inside the ward, i was sat outside, and she didn't go down until after midday, because her notes from the pre—op, because she has blood clot disorder, so they needed the nodes from her pre—op, had not arrived, they had not got them. so they had to wait for these notes to be sent by taxi from the hospital 38 miles away. and ijust couldn't believe it! the staff were brilliant, the staff were great, but the system, i can't believe in this day and age of digital technology, that nodes are being sent, well, a, by taxi, and why did they not have them in the first place? so somewhere the system is not working.

that may be something we will be hearing about.— that may be something we will be hearing about.- digital i that may be something we will be hearing about. hmm! digital methods is somethin: hearing about. hmm! digital methods is something we _ hearing about. hmm! digital methods is something we will— hearing about. hmm! digital methods is something we will be _ hearing about. h�*n�*ni digital methods is something we will be hearing about from sir keir starmer. ian in rossendale, good morning to you, how was it for you?— was it for you? great, really. when i was seven. _ was it for you? great, really. when i was seven. i _ was it for you? great, really. when i was seven, i nearly _ was it for you? great, really. when i was seven, i nearly died - was it for you? great, really. when i was seven, i nearly died with - i was seven, i nearly died with rheumatic_ i was seven, i nearly died with rheumatic fever, i was in hospital for about— rheumatic fever, i was in hospital for about a — rheumatic fever, i was in hospital for about a year and off school for three _ for about a year and off school for three years — for about a year and off school for three years. it damaged my heart, so i have _ three years. it damaged my heart, so i have had _ three years. it damaged my heart, so i have had two heart operations. i need _ i have had two heart operations. i need orthopaedic surgery, i have had one knee _ need orthopaedic surgery, i have had one knee operation, i am waiting for the other, _ one knee operation, i am waiting for the other, and while i am going through— the other, and while i am going through all of that, my wife has had serious _ through all of that, my wife has had serious mental health problems, so i have had _ serious mental health problems, so i have had to _ serious mental health problems, so i have had to look after her for 40 years. _ have had to look after her for 40 years. and — have had to look after her for 40 years. and i_ have had to look after her for 40 years, and i have been in and out of mental— years, and i have been in and out of mental health units seeing her and dealing _ mental health units seeing her and dealing with the staff. so i'm pretty— dealing with the staff. so i'm pretty experienced when it comes to the nhs _ pretty experienced when it comes to the nhs and care. so it has basically— the nhs and care. so it has basically been very good. the

problem. _ basically been very good. the problem, i think, basically been very good. the problem, ithink, and people don't talk about— problem, ithink, and people don't talk about it is when the nhs was first set— talk about it is when the nhs was first set up, it was run by medical people _ first set up, it was run by medical people it — first set up, it was run by medical people. it is— first set up, it was run by medical people. it is now run by accountants. that is the problem. and it _ accountants. that is the problem. and it will— accountants. that is the problem. and it will continue to be a problem until you _ and it will continue to be a problem until you put it back to the way it was _ until you put it back to the way it was and — until you put it back to the way it was and it— until you put it back to the way it was. and if the bbc did an historic study— was. and if the bbc did an historic study of— was. and if the bbc did an historic study of the nhs, from beginning to today, _ study of the nhs, from beginning to today, you _ study of the nhs, from beginning to today, you will see why it has occurred~ _ today, you will see why it has occurred. when i moved here in rossendale, within ten miles of where _ rossendale, within ten miles of where i— rossendale, within ten miles of where i live, there was six a&e units — where i live, there was six a&e units. there is now one. so, obviously. _ units. there is now one. so, obviously, if you look at the historic— obviously, if you look at the historic development of the nhs, you will see _ historic development of the nhs, you will see all— historic development of the nhs, you will see all the answers are there, but it— will see all the answers are there, but it has— will see all the answers are there, but it has been successive governments that have tried to tweak it and _ governments that have tried to tweak it and interfere with it, but the biggest — it and interfere with it, but the biggest problem, and it will still remain, — biggest problem, and it will still remain, is— biggest problem, and it will still remain, is you must go back to the nhs run _

remain, is you must go back to the nhs run by— remain, is you must go back to the nhs run by medical people. it is run lry nhs run by medical people. it is run by accountants and businessmen. it will never— by accountants and businessmen. it will never be sorted out until you put it _ will never be sorted out until you put it back — will never be sorted out until you put it back correctly to the way it was _ put it back correctly to the way it was a _ put it back correctly to the way it was. a medical organisation has to be run _ was. a medical organisation has to be run by— was. a medical organisation has to be run by medical people.- be run by medical people. listen, ian, hue be run by medical people. listen, ian, huge expertise, _ be run by medical people. listen, ian, huge expertise, because - be run by medical people. listen, ian, huge expertise, because you| ian, huge expertise, because you have used it so often, i am so sorry to hear about your problems and those of your wife as well, thank you very much. apologies for rushing through these calls, but we are getting brilliant little nut shells of what is going on at the moment. what do you think about what you are hearing, maryam? ithink what do you think about what you are hearing, maryam? i think it is great to have you one, one of the themes coming through is that the staff are great but... it coming through is that the staff are great but- - -— great but... it is very good to hear such a comprehensive _ great but... it is very good to hear such a comprehensive discussion, | great but... it is very good to hear- such a comprehensive discussion, and you are hearing about a wide range of experiences, and i can hearjust from the stories of your callers that what they are describing is the

patchiness of a system under strain, and when that system is being pulled under strain, there will be gaps and holes that develop. i must reiterate that the nhs is a fantastic institution, i am that the nhs is a fantastic institution, iam proud that the nhs is a fantastic institution, i am proud to work in it, and i am proud to be able to deliverfree card to it, and i am proud to be able to deliver free card to people, and we must keep that in mind, that this is a country that provides free care to people who need it. but it is also a system that was invented for treatments that have come on hugely over the past decades, so we are now delivering so many more treatments add so much higher cost, within the same system that was developed so many years ago, thatjust cannot, i think, make provision for everything thatis think, make provision for everything that is required of it or is being

demanded of it now. and i think... i do beg your pardon, carry on. we. demanded of it now. and i think... i do beg your pardon, carry on. no, go on. it is 10:24am, _ do beg your pardon, carry on. no, go on. it is 10:24am, sir— do beg your pardon, carry on. no, go on. it is 10:24am, sir keir— do beg your pardon, carry on. no, go on. it is 10:24am, sir keir starmer. on. it is 10:24am, sir keir starmer is going to be talking at around roundabout 10:30, you have heard what people are saying — too many accountants, administrators, not enough health professionals, targets can distort, you know, it problems, digital problems. what would, ideally, you like to hearfrom sir keir starmer later on as leader of the main opposition? what message would you like to hear coming through? 50 would you like to hear coming throu~h? ., ,, ., through? so i will take it one further. through? so i will take it one further- in — through? so i will take it one further. in my— through? so i will take it one further. in my ideal- through? so i will take it one further. in my idealworld, i through? so i will take it one further. in my idealworld, ll through? so i will take it one - further. in my idealworld, iwould further. in my ideal world, i would love the nhs to be de—politicised completely. i know that is a fantasy, but, you know, we use lots of analogies in medicine, we use lots of aviation analogies, for example, and if we were trying to

take a transatlantic flight and go over to new york, we want to be asking the labour party or conservative party how they wanted to fly the flight. it is about the safety and wellbeing of the people in this country, and we should be able to devolve some of the politicisation of the nhs so that we can come up with a more comprehensive and long—term view doesn't revolve around political parties. i do think, however, doesn't revolve around political parties. ido think, however, in doesn't revolve around political parties. i do think, however, in the upcoming statement, i am pleased to be hearing about digital development, i think that is a massive gap within the nhs, that has huge potential to improve things. and i think one thing that we must not forget is this idea of retaining the people that already exist within the people that already exist within the nhs, some of them, you know, huge problems that have arisen because we lose so many good, talented, hard—working people from the nhs for all of the reasons that

have been said, and retention is really key. have been said, and retention is really key-— have been said, and retention is reall ke . �*, ., ., , really key. ok, let's go with louise in halesworth. _ really key. ok, let's go with louise in halesworth. either— really key. ok, let's go with louise in halesworth. either way, - really key. ok, let's go with louise in halesworth. either way, taking l in halesworth. either way, taking politics out the nhs, doctor, good luck with that! louise in halesworth, malika in romford, how was it for you? hi. halesworth, malika in romford, how was it for you?— halesworth, malika in romford, how was it for you? hi, good morning, my bab was was it for you? hi, good morning, my baby was referred _ was it for you? hi, good morning, my baby was referred last _ was it for you? hi, good morning, my baby was referred last year, - was it for you? hi, good morning, my baby was referred last year, in - baby was referred last year, in fehruary. _ baby was referred last year, in february, for a heart murmur scan, and eventually got back to us in september. and these scan actually was postponed again until mid—october, so we had the scan done, _ mid—october, so we had the scan done, and — mid—october, so we had the scan done, and we're still waiting the results. — done, and we're still waiting the results, really. we haven't heard anything — results, really. we haven't heard anything yet. it is really daunting. really— anything yet. it is really daunting. really daunting, really concerning, yes. have you been on the phone? have you been trying to push it

along? have you been trying to push it alon: ? ., , ., have you been trying to push it alon: ? . , ., along? yeah, i did try to call them, also i went — along? yeah, i did try to call them, also i went back _ along? yeah, i did try to call them, also i went back to _ along? yeah, i did try to call them, also i went back to the _ along? yeah, i did try to call them, also i went back to the gp, - along? yeah, i did try to call them, also i went back to the gp, they - also i went back to the gp, they keep— also i went back to the gp, they keep chasing them, and we are still waiting _ keep chasing them, and we are still waiting for— keep chasing them, and we are still waiting for someone to get back to us. waiting for someone to get back to us they— waiting for someone to get back to us. they said that they will have to see us— us. they said that they will have to see us in— us. they said that they will have to see us in person, so for every child that has— see us in person, so for every child that has the — see us in person, so for every child that has the scan, they will be seen by a doctor. — that has the scan, they will be seen by a doctor, that is why the waiting list is _ by a doctor, that is why the waiting list is so _ by a doctor, that is why the waiting list is so long. yeah. i by a doctor, that is why the waiting list is so long. yeah.— list is so long. yeah. i know people who have had _ list is so long. yeah. i know people who have had heart _ list is so long. yeah. i know people who have had heart murmur- list is so long. yeah. i know people who have had heart murmur and i who have had heart murmur and everything is fine, i'm sure everything is fine, i'm sure everything is fine, i'm sure everything is going to be ok, but it is the worry, isn't it? it everything is going to be ok, but it is the worry, isn't it?— everything is going to be ok, but it is the worry, isn't it? it is. have is the worry, isn't it? it is. have they exolained _ is the worry, isn't it? it is. have they explained why _ is the worry, isn't it? it is. have they explained why there has been such a long delay? trio. they explained why there has been such a long delay?— such a long delay? no, they 'ust said that n fl such a long delay? no, they 'ust said that it is �* such a long delay? no, they 'ust said that it is just i such a long delay? no, they 'ust said that it isjust so i such a long delay? no, they 'ust said that it isjust so many h such a long delay? no, theyjust said that it isjust so many kids i said that it isjust so many kids have _ said that it isjust so many kids have it — said that it isjust so many kids have it done, and i have to be seen in person. — have it done, and i have to be seen in person, that is why the list is so long. — in person, that is why the list is so long, the waiting list. i�*m in person, that is why the list is so long, the waiting list. i'm going to brina so long, the waiting list. i'm going to bring the _ so long, the waiting list. i'm going to bring the doctor _ so long, the waiting list. i'm going to bring the doctor in _ so long, the waiting list. i'm going to bring the doctor in on _ so long, the waiting list. i'm going to bring the doctor in on this - to bring the doctor in on this particular point, so worrying for malika there and for mothers and

fathers when this happens, itjust illustrates how people with all sorts of conditions and problems and waiting for all sorts of different reasons, but it is the waiting, isn't it? i reasons, but it is the waiting, isn't it? ., . , reasons, but it is the waiting, isn't it? ., ., , ., ., isn't it? itotally agree, and i apologise — isn't it? itotally agree, and i apologise for— isn't it? itotally agree, and i apologise for that, _ isn't it? itotally agree, and i apologise for that, and - isn't it? itotally agree, and i apologise for that, and i - isn't it? itotally agree, and il apologise for that, and i think isn't it? itotally agree, and i - apologise for that, and i think that often we find ourselves apologising because, as people who work within the nhs, we also would like to do better. i think the anxiety of waiting for a diagnosis contributes to that other issue that we are talking about, our wellbeing in terms of mental health and that of relatives and the patients themselves. so it is a vicious cycle, and i think if we were able to use, for example, developments in digital technology to communicate better it would mean that maybe someone like malika would not have to come into hospitalfor the result, maybe they could have online

meetings, we have learnt a lot from doing virtual clinics now, through the pandemic, and to be able to continue some of that work with a bit more infrastructure and support might improve things. haulers bit more infrastructure and support might improve things. wes streeting is talkin: at might improve things. wes streeting is talking at the _ might improve things. wes streeting is talking at the moment, _ might improve things. wes streeting is talking at the moment, and - might improve things. wes streeting is talking at the moment, and he - might improve things. wes streeting is talking at the moment, and he is i is talking at the moment, and he is of course the shadow secretary of state for health, and he will be introducing sir keir starmer, they are talking about their five missions for a better britain, lots of five is going on with the tories�* pledges and labour as well, and health is right up there for all the political parties. so we are going to be hearing from the labour leader, sir keir starmer, in the next couple of minutes or so. nick triggle, the road from here to the next election, there will be a lot of this, a lot of phone—ins and debates, a lot of arguing about the nhs. there certainly is. all the polling suggests after the economy, the nhs is a key priority, it often is one

of the top two or three going into the election. i think what we will hear today will set the overall vision that labour has in terms of tackling the backlog in waiting times, and also transforming the way the nhs works. dr marion was saying that the nhs was set up just after the second world war, and when it was set up, it was there to treat people with short bouts of illness. but now it is having to take care of people with chronic, long—term conditions. that is a completely different situation.— conditions. that is a completely different situation. here is a text i would like _ different situation. here is a text i would like to _ different situation. here is a text i would like to read _ different situation. here is a text i would like to read to _ different situation. here is a text| i would like to read to everybody. hi, my 88—year—old father is in an ambulance outside morriston hospital in swansea, he has been there over 24 hours after a fall at his care home yesterday. but he has been told he may get a bed by tonight. that is from simon. that is in wales. but it

is familiar to people all over the uk? , , . ., ., ., uk? yes, it is. we heard a lot about these problems _ uk? yes, it is. we heard a lot about these problems during _ uk? yes, it is. we heard a lot about these problems during the - uk? yes, it is. we heard a lot about these problems during the winter. l uk? yes, it is. we heard a lot about. these problems during the winter. he was of ambulances outside a&e and patients not able to be admitted into the hospital. it all comes down to the fact that the wards are full of patients. one of the key problem is the nhs is facing is discharging patients out into the community, those patients who need some support. that is to do with a system of social care, which is largely run by councils. one of the interesting things today, labour will mention this, keir starmerwill things today, labour will mention this, keir starmer will mention social care and that we need to do more to integrate that with the nhs. but they are yet to set out, and we will not get it today, a detailed plan of how they will get more money into social care, who should pay for it. the tories... it into social care, who should pay for it. the tories. . ._ it. the tories... it as such an ongoing _ it. the tories... it as such an ongoing issue? _ it. the tories... it as such an ongoing issue? tony - it. the tories. .. it as such an ongoing issue? tony blair- it. the tories... it as such an i ongoing issue? tony blair came it. the tories... it as such an - ongoing issue? tony blair came to ower ongoing issue? tony blair came to power talking _ ongoing issue? tony blair came to

power talking about _ ongoing issue? tony blair came to power talking about trying - ongoing issue? tony blair came to power talking about trying to - ongoing issue? tony blair came to power talking about trying to do i power talking about trying to do something with social care and it has largely remained unreformed. i think in the lead up to the election, there will be a lot of people asking the question of the political parties, what are you going to do to social care? because if you don't tackle that, it's hard to tackle some of the root causes of the problems, like the patient who is stuck outside the hospital in an ambulance. it is stuck outside the hospital in an ambulance-— is stuck outside the hospital in an ambulance. it is such a legitimate oint ambulance. it is such a legitimate point made _ ambulance. it is such a legitimate point made by _ ambulance. it is such a legitimate point made by so _ ambulance. it is such a legitimate point made by so many _ ambulance. it is such a legitimate point made by so many people i ambulance. it is such a legitimate i point made by so many people when ambulance. it is such a legitimate - point made by so many people when we discuss this. cancer is an illness, it gets treated. alzheimer's is an illness, dementia is an illness. it is back. that is the philosophical heart of this, what the nhs is for. you can completely understand people's frustration about this when they have a loved one and there are a lot of carers listening right now who are caring for a loved one at home, and it isjust a day after day of heartbreak, isn't it? it home, and it isjust a day after day of heartbreak, isn't it?—

of heartbreak, isn't it? it is. when the nhs was _ of heartbreak, isn't it? it is. when the nhs was created, _ of heartbreak, isn't it? it is. when the nhs was created, people - of heartbreak, isn't it? it is. when! the nhs was created, people were of heartbreak, isn't it? it is. when - the nhs was created, people were not living long enough to develop dementia. now it is causing huge problems. it is often falling to people or theirfamilies problems. it is often falling to people or their families to pay for social care, to provide them with the support they need. cancer is something that largely falls to the nhs. it is those problems that are proving so difficult.— proving so difficult. let's hear it. wes streeting — proving so difficult. let's hear it. wes streeting is _ proving so difficult. let's hear it. wes streeting is moving - proving so difficult. let's hear it. wes streeting is moving away i proving so difficult. let's hear it. i wes streeting is moving away from the stage and sir keir starmer is about to talk about the nhs. thank ou, wes about to talk about the nhs. thank you. wes and _ about to talk about the nhs. thank you, wes and thank _ about to talk about the nhs. thank you, wes and thank you _ about to talk about the nhs. thank you, wes and thank you all- about to talk about the nhs. thank you, wes and thank you all for- about to talk about the nhs. triag�*ua; you, wes and thank you all for being here. it's fantastic to be in braintree. i've got very fond memories of this part of the world because 16 happy years ago i got married just down the road in the fens. that is why it has a special place in my heart. almost as good as that, this is where two weeks ago, at the local elections, the labour party was back on the march in

essex. but today i am here to speak about something that is fundamental to the labour party. fundamental to our purpose of working people. the nhs. just look at it. the eight o'clock scramble. the appointments missed, opportunity is missed, to spot the pain that turned out to be a tumour. patients who want to go home, are well enough to go home, but who have to stay in hospital for months, waiting for a care package. day long waits in a&e. record numbers off work sick. people pulling their own teeth out. 7 million on waiting, waiting, waiting lists. and ambulances for heart attacks and stroke victims don't come on time. just think about that for a second. i ambulances that don't come. can any of you imagine

losing someone in that way? i can't. and i mean that in every sense. i can't imagine it. it shouldn't be possible in our country. but it is a cruel lottery of who lives and who dies that the nhs was founded to stop. until now, untilthis stop. until now, until this point, for 75 years it has. it's one of the greatest privileges of being born in britain, certainly forall greatest privileges of being born in britain, certainly for all of my life. the knowledge that if you get ill, if you have a serious accident, you will get the care that you need, whatever your circumstances. not every country has a system like that. and the insecurity, the fear without it, is huge. nye bevan, the labour health secretary who created the nhs put it best. he said illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay, nor an offence

for which they should be penalised. that is what we believe. and it is under threat. that is what we believe. and it is underthreat. i mean that is what we believe. and it is under threat. i mean it. that is what we believe. and it is underthreat. i mean it. i that is what we believe. and it is under threat. i mean it. i don't think the nhs survives five more years of tory government. people say, well, we've heard this before, the labour party is always saying it's time to save the nhs. but i say look squarely on the eyes of the people who work in the nhs, who serve the nhs, and ask them. speak to the working people who use the nhs, who depend on the nhs, who need the nhs. what do they say? people who believe in the nhs, love the nhs, but have been forced to buy the care they need from the private sector. listen to them. at the next election, the nhs is on the line. the conservative party that has brought it to its knees will put it in the ground. but mark my words, if

all we do in the labour party is to place the nhs on a pedestal and leave it there, that is not good enough either. we've got to fix the fundamentals. renew its purpose, make it fit for the future. applause that is what this mission is about. a new direction for the nhs. to say to the british people, vote labour, problem solved, would be an insult to everyone's intelligence. patients can see how deep the problems go. my approach is different. it starts with the cause, the central project. how do we serve working people? then it asks what do we value, what do we conserve, cherish and protect? the

answer is a public and universal health system, free at the point of use, paid for by general taxation, the nhs. applause but then it asks what do we need to change? what are the challenges, the opportunities? how can we save lives, improve lives, provide more dignity? innovation, where can it be found? people, how do we unlock their purpose? technology, how do we make it work for us? and when you've asked those searching questions, you turn back, you roll up your sleeves and you face reality. and the reality is this. the nhs is not sustainable unless we make serious, deep, long—term changes. that is my politics. reform for renewal. national missions for the common

good and nhs fit for the future. applause now, some people will tell you it's purely a question of money. and money is a part of it. i don't deny that. like any opposition, we will set out our plans before the election and like an incoming government we will make decisions based on a full appreciation of the reality, the state of our nhs and our public finances. but what is more important now, and i really believe this, is to show our recipe for reform, to put forward a vision of a renewed nhs that can make the most of the money we invest in it. i've run a public service. i know that money makes a difference. but it only gets you so far. you can't look at the problems now and tell me it's just about money. that's not

serious. you can't ignore the fact the world has changed. that's denying the evidence before our eyes. the british people are living longer. life expectancy in 1948 was 68. today, it's over 81. that is a good thing. but it brings new challenges. the nature of disease is different. instead of urgent and acute hospital care, it's more about managing chronic long—term conditions. the wonder of science has taught us, with ever—increasing clarity, that our health depends on how we live. mental health has stepped out of the shadows and, thank goodness, and with artificial intelligence, personalised medicine, with new vaccines, we stand on the cusp of a revolution that could transform health care for the better. my message today is this. science and technology of the game

changers. this is the prize, it gives us an nhs where prevention comes first, where care is closer to home and where patients have more control. to everyone working in the nhs today, serving on the front line, i say you. nhs today, serving on the front line, isay you. —— i nhs today, serving on the front line, i say you. —— i say thank you. thank you. without you, there would be no light at the end of the tunnel. i also say that the walk towards that light will be hard, will feel challenging, difficult. but do not doubt it is essential. and that the reward for reform will be worth it. applause and look, don't doubt this either. the tories will never deliver this. they voted against the nhs right at the start and more than once. and

while they have come to accept it as part of the political furniture, in the heart of hearts, they don't believe in its central promise. for them, it's a cost, not a cause. from that mindset springs the well of their neglect. the property of their ambition. the sticking plaster, crisis management in. never seize the opportunities, never addresses the opportunities, never addresses the long—term. it's not that they don't care, it's that their priorities, their ideology, it takes them somewhere else. £200 billion a year, that does not square with their small state vision of britain. and that's why we have familiar problems, every year for the last 13 years we have had a winter crisis. and every year in about february or march, we dojust and every year in about february or march, we do just enough to keep the nhs going, we breathe a bit in the summer and then we go into the next nhs crisis the next winter. the only

difference being, it's worse than the one that went before. you know what is even worse than that? the tories underestimate the nhs. they underestimate the bond between people and service. underestimate what you can do with a mission. yes, people go to work in the nhs for a wage, of course they do. but also because they believe in something. this is how we go beyond the sticking plaster mindset, how we solve the crisis and tackle the long—term challenges. i want an nhs back on its feet. of course i do. but i also want an nhs that is fit for the future. and that requires a partnership between people and service that builds on what they think about the nhs as a health system. protect the nhs was the pandemic slogan, and we did. in

turn,it pandemic slogan, and we did. in turn, it protected us. have no doubt, this mission is a cause, but it is a cause that can only succeed if we embrace the need for reform. applause so, labour's national mission on health, to build an nhs fit for the future, and as with all our missions we set the direction with clear, measurable goals. goal one, the next labour government will deliver an nhs that is there when you need it. ambulances seven minutes for cardiac arrest. a&e, back to the four our target. gps, the highest satisfaction levels on record. waiting lists down. plants treatment within 18 weeks. no backsliding, no excuses, we will meet the standards again. we will get the nhs back on

its feet. applause gold two, we will improve healthy life expectancy for all. and we will halve the inequality gap between different regions of england. let me explain what that means. it means we will restart a trend britain has come to take for granted. that, to be blunt, we should take for granted. a sign of progress that generation after generation the people of this country are living healthier lives, happier lives and longer lives. the tories have reversed that. that's their legacy. and look, by focusing on health inequalities, we can make britain fairer as well. did you know black

women are four times more likely to die whilst having a baby than white women? in my constituency, a girl born in highgate hill will live ten years longer than a girl born in somers town. that is three miles away. my labour party will not stand by and let that happen. we've got to root out these inequalities. applause and to achieve this we must in on our biggest killers. three killers which we know asked demanding questions of our health care system. one, cardiovascular diseases, heart attacks and strokes. we will get them down by a quarter within a decade. two, cancer. we will make

sure 75% of all cancer is diagnosed at stage one or two. let me tell you what that means. the difference it will make. the survival rate for cancer at stage i and two is 81%. but at stage three and four, it's just 26%. what a difference that would make. and finally, killer three, suicide. last year i went to an event organised by the band new order. they asked me, for obvious reasons, given their history, did i know anyone that has died in that way. i have to admit it took me aback. i've never been asked that, certainly not in public. but, you know, i didn't have to think that long. i do. know, i didn't have to think that long. ido. more know, i didn't have to think that long. i do. more than one, in fact. three friends. and if i asked

everyone in this room the same question, i guess you wouldn't have to think about it long either. suicide is the biggest killer of young lives in this country. the biggest killer. that statistic should haunt us. and the rate is going up. our mission must be and will be to get it down! applause so, there is no time to get there. this mission starts with people. that's at the height of the crisis right now. that's why we have committed to the biggest expansion of nhs training in its history. more nurses, doctors, midwives and health visitors. all fully funded by removing the non—dom tax status. it's why we will leave no stone unturned when it comes to finding

new ways to cut waiting lists. labour has done it before and we'll do it again. applause imagine that you are waiting for a knee operation, and the waiting list isn't going down at your local hospital. but in the trust next door, they have a specialist orthopaedic centre, things are moving much more quickly. i say you should be able to go there instead. i say there shouldn't be a separate waiting list at this hospital, a separate waiting list at that hospital, hospitals should work together. so, i can announce today, together. so, i can announce today, to cut waiting lists more quickly, patients should be able to visit nearby hospitals when faster treatment is available and labour will give them that choice.

and that is only the beginning. as i keep saying, we got to go beyond the sticking plaster approach. italked earlier about the light of the end of the tunnel. the reward for reform. we've got to hold onto that. and there are grounds to be optimistic. but it will require three shifts. shifts which must place at the heart of everything we do on health. shift one, we must move care away from hospitals and closer to the community. the nhs must become a neighbourhood health service. applause i'll put it bluntly. at the moment, we aren't good enough at treating people early in the community. we leave it to hospitals and, quite often, that is too late. and if we

change this, it will save lives and money. that's why we are going to improve gp access, and the 8am scramble. we will train more gps but we will also make the future of general practice more sustainable. as the contractor model declines in some communities, we won't let patients go without the care that they need. so, we will bring fragmented services together and make sure that a salaried gps to serve all communities. and we will modernise the appointment system. for those that want real continuity of care, we will bring back the family doctor. that's what people with long—term conditions need. but for those who just want a quick appointment at their convenience, who want a digital consultation, we will give those patients a different route. seriously, it can't be beyond us to offer different options for different people. we've just got to roll up our sleeves and get it done.

and one more thing, we've got to fix the back door problem. we can't have hospitals blocked up by patients who are desperate to go home and ready to be discharged. so, we will make good on the integration of health social care. bucking successful models like the centre at bromley by bow, where, in one place, they bring together doctors, nurses, physiotherapists, social carers, to provide joined physiotherapists, social carers, to providejoined up care in the community, keeping people out of hospital. and look, we will recruit and retrain more carers with a fair pay agreement. this is fundamental. it's about who and what we respect. it's about who and what we respect. it's about who and what we respect. it's about better standards at work, about dignity, more progression, more training, more rights and, yes, about pay. a fair deal for more training, more rights and, yes, about pay. a fair dealfor our carers. that is what people clapped for.

applause shift two, we must move from a mindset that reviews health is all about sickness to one where we put prevention first, right across society. so, we will take hold action where early intervention can make a huge difference, on mental health. make no mistake, we intend to revolutionise mental health treatment in this country. 8500 new mental health professionals, specialist access in every school, guaranteed treatment inside four weeks for anyone who needs it. and look, the mission that we are launching today isn'tjust an nhs mission. it's a health mission. when we talk about a new deal for working

people in employment rights, that is a health policy. when we say we will provide breakfast clubs with healthy food for all primary school children, that is a health policy. when we commit to restoring a decent homes standard, regulating the water industry, a new clean air act, they are all health policies. when i say we will take on the social media companies that push dangerous misogyny on our children, i am saying very clearly to those that profit from harming our children, no. not in britain. today we will go further on that. we will change advertising rules and make sure that products that are harmful to our children's health, vaping, junk food, sugary snacks, cannot be advertised to our children. no, not in written.

applause -- not in britain. shift three, technology. a revolution that will accelerate the first two shifts and herald a different kind of health care. a move from an analog to a digital nhs, a tomorrow service, notjust day—to—day service. mark my words, this can be transformational. the route to the nhs offering shorter waiting times, better treatment, early diagnosis and meaningful prevention. britain leads the world in science and technology. we can make this happen. this is the game changer. the light at the end of the tunnel. this is what will make the nhs fit for the future. i'll give an example. 33 million people downloaded the nhs app during the pandemic. and it's a good app. at

that extraordinary opportunity has been wasted. labour will take the app and innovations like it, we would deepen them, expand them and put them in the hands of patients. and use them to transform our relationship with the nhs. get this right and it means moving to a fully digital patient record, never again handwritten notes getting lost. it means booked appointments, appropriate self referral routes, remind us to get checkups and screening. the latest guidance on the lid back on patients and control of their own data, choosing how it is used and how it is shared. this will get rid of the divide between those confident to speak up for themselves and those who can't. look, if we make sure everyone is supported, we can take people on this journey and it will mean people can get better choices, faster care, can get better choices, faster care, can manage their own health. in

truth, it's about politicians catching up with the public, and the nhs catching up with a revolution that has already happened in the rest of our lives. and it doesn't stop there. technology provides more choice and power for patients. but it also saves lives. take artificial intelligence. ai will change the nature of health care, and britain is good at al. i'll give an example, lung cancer is the number one cause of cancer —related deaths in the uk. 274,000 patients waiting for 11 days or more to hear back from the scan which could tell them if they have cancer. a! can reduce workload and raise productivity. but here is the real thing. when used properly by a radiologist, it can reduce mr lung

cancer diagnosis by 60%. because it is quicker and more accurate, the lives that could save through early diagnosis are countless. but to make this happen, we need one written to the nhs, not many, incentives to innovate throughout the system. fewer barriers to adoption, fewer hurdles to clear, less bureaucracy or clinical trials, and a government that uses its full power to back our world leading life sciences. applause look, when you add this altogether, the sum total of these three shifts, what you get is a plan. a plan for a future nhs that protects what is precious and embraces what is possible. from everyone waiting, stuck on a call at 8am, to a primary

care system that offers different choices for different needs. from long waits at a&e to hospitals that carry a lighter load, because more care is in the community. an nhs where technology gives patients more responsibility, and professionals more time, where we diagnose disease earlier, screen people in supermarkets, libraries, leisure centres, communities. where we can save lives because health care is closer to lives. and, above all, where the whole of society contributes to the mission of healthier, happier, longer lives. that's an ambition that we can rally around, a goal that can lift the anxiety, the pain, the fearfaced by millions of families across the country, and replace it with the hope of a renewed nhs.

applause in place of fear, that is what the book was called. and if people want to call me dewy eyed, want to say i am a romantic about the values of the nhs, i plead guilty. the nhs has played an enormous role in my life. my played an enormous role in my life. my mum was a nurse and a proud nurse, but she was also severely ill for most of her life with a rare condition. at the age of 11, she was told two things. one, she would be in a wheelchair by her 20s and two, that she should forget about having kids. that diagnosis did not reckon

with the determination and courage of my mum. but it also did