good morning. our agenda good morning. ouragenda and good morning. our agenda and your agenda this morning... at 10:00, we're talking about vapes — tests reveal children are inhaling high levels of harmful chemicals from vaping — how worried are you? do vapes leave you fuming? but for the next hour we're going to discuss what happened in cardiff last night. there was chaotic and violent scenes in the ely are of the city last night — that may have been sparked by the death of two teenage boys in what police describe as "a serious road traffic collision". cars were set alight and objects and fireworks were thrown at police as 100—150 people gathered at the scene.

some of the people there last night wore balaclavas while others were seen breaking up paving slabs to hurl at officers. south wales police and crime commissioner alun michael says up to a dozen officers may have been injured — i'll speak to him shortly. lots of this was captured and shared on social media so we'll try and get to the bottom of what happened and why. what do you want to tell us, we will try to get the bottom of some of it. that is your first hour. this is the nation's phone and now he is the news. south wales police

and crime commissioner says two teenagers are believed to have died in a crash before a riot in cardiff last night. up to 12 of us are thought to have been injured in the disorder in ely, when cars were set on fire and objects and fireworks were thrown at them. police investigating the disappearance of madeleine mccann are due to search a reservoir near to where she disappeared in 2007. the prime suspect in the case is currently serving a seven—year prison sentence in germany for raping a woman in the same area. dominic raab is to stand down as an mp at the next general election. he resigned last month after an investigation into allegations of bullying. and a bbc investigation has found that vaping products confiscated from school pupils contain metals. lab tests a teenage using the vapours could be exposed to unsafe levels of nickel and lead. most of

the vapours seized were illegal. let's go straight to the south wales police and crime commissioner. we're talking about the riots in the ely area of cardiff last night, what happened and why. mr michael, good morning. happened and why. mr michael, good morninu. happened and why. mr michael, good mornin _ ,., ., ., happened and why. mr michael, good morninu. ., ., i. happened and why. mr michael, good morning-_ could morning. good morning to you. could ou cive morning. good morning to you. could you give us— morning. good morning to you. could you give us an — morning. good morning to you. could you give us an idea _ morning. good morning to you. could you give us an idea of— morning. good morning to you. could you give us an idea of the _ morning. good morning to you. could you give us an idea of the timeline i you give us an idea of the timeline and what happened?— you give us an idea of the timeline and what happened? yesterday evening there was a road _ and what happened? yesterday evening there was a road traffic _ and what happened? yesterday evening there was a road traffic accident - there was a road traffic accident involving two teenagers, we believe involving two teenagers, we believe in the same vehicle which was an off—road bike or a scooter. sadly, both died. that should have been the business for the police then investigating that accident, seeing what happened and helping the families that obviously have

experienced a tragedy. however, it appears that things kicked off with appears that things kicked off with a number of people coming together, and violence which resulted in probably about a dozen police officers being injured. fortunately, none of them with life—threatening injuries. i hesitate to use the word cause for any of this. there do seem to have been rumours on social media because for instance there had been a police chase of the two youngsters and that it was not the case. but in any event, that would not be a cause or a reason for the sort of violence we saw, which was very frightening to the local people. ely is an area that has its problems, significant deprivation, but is also a very warm community, i worked there for ten years as a youth worker in the 70s

and 805. i years as a youth worker in the 705 and 805. i know the community will come together to respond to these events and to rebuild and there is very good links between the police, the council, the local councillor5 and the local community. but as ever with these types of events, there needs to be a significant police investigation as to who did what and for people to be held to account and brought to justice for the actions we saw last night.— brought to justice for the actions we saw last night. absolutely and our thoughts _ we saw last night. absolutely and our thoughts have _ we saw last night. absolutely and our thoughts have to _ we saw last night. absolutely and our thoughts have to be - we saw last night. absolutely and our thoughts have to be with - we saw last night. absolutely and our thoughts have to be with the | our thoughts have to be with the families of those boys who died. we will no doubt find the circumstances of those deaths in the fullness of time. you say that some reports on social media may have, as it were, fuelled the fires, could you tell me a little bit more about that? the roblem a little bit more about that? tue: problem nowadays a little bit more about that? tte: problem nowadays is a little bit more about that? "tte: problem nowadays is there a little bit more about that? tte: problem nowadays is there is instant image5 problem nowadays is there is instant images on social media. there is no

verification a5 images on social media. there is no verification as there is with good journali5m, a5 verification as there is with good journali5m, as whether the things being said are true or false. there does seem to have been a rumour going round that there was a police cha5e. there was not. it is difficult to know why that would be a reason for the sort of violence we have seen in any event. but in any event, it was an untruth that was going around which was refuted pretty quickly. at the moment, it is not at all clear how this came about, whether there was a concerted action by a group of people, or whatever. and those are the things that the south wales police who will be investigating with great care today. be investigating with great care toda . ., , ., be investigating with great care toda. ., , ., ., today. could you stay there for a cou - le

today. could you stay there for a coule of today. could you stay there for a couple of minutes, _ today. could you stay there for a couple of minutes, mr _ today. could you stay there for a couple of minutes, mr michael, | today. could you stay there for a | couple of minutes, mr michael, i want to speak to our reporter on the scene. i am sure there is more to ask and to say from your point of view. tomo5, what can you tell us? the sound behind me is the sound of cardiff_ the sound behind me is the sound of cardiff council's team and they have been cleaning up the debris from what _ been cleaning up the debris from what happened last night. when we arrived _ what happened last night. when we arrived at _ what happened last night. when we arrived at 5.30 this morning, the amount— arrived at 5.30 this morning, the amount of— arrived at 5.30 this morning, the amount of debris and rubble on the road, _ amount of debris and rubble on the road. bricks, — amount of debris and rubble on the road, bricks, fireworks, pallets, thinge— road, bricks, fireworks, pallets, things that_ road, bricks, fireworks, pallets, things that we used to throw at the police _ things that we used to throw at the police last— things that we used to throw at the police last night when this riot was taking _ police last night when this riot was taking place in the early hours of the money. those unsavoury scenes we saw on _ the money. those unsavoury scenes we saw on social_ the money. those unsavoury scenes we saw on social media being streamed live by— saw on social media being streamed live by some people that were here. as mr— live by some people that were here. as mr michael are saying, he has confirmed — as mr michael are saying, he has confirmed that they were called to a scene _ confirmed that they were called to a scene just— confirmed that they were called to a scene just after 6pm yesterday evening, — scene just after 6pm yesterday evening, on a road not too far from

where _ evening, on a road not too far from where i_ evening, on a road not too far from where i am — evening, on a road not too far from where i am standing, where there had been_ where i am standing, where there had been a collision. two teenagers were sadly killed — been a collision. two teenagers were sadly killed. we still don't know the full— sadly killed. we still don't know the full details are to what happened there. but they have been quite clear— happened there. but they have been quite clear in stressing that the police — quite clear in stressing that the police were not involved in that incident, — police were not involved in that incident, they were not involved in the deaths. — incident, they were not involved in the deaths, they were not involved with what — the deaths, they were not involved with what happened. the escalation between _ with what happened. the escalation between the crowd here began after the police _ between the crowd here began after the police arrived and there is some speculation— the police arrived and there is some speculation that might have been driven— speculation that might have been driven by— speculation that might have been driven by some rumours on social media, _ driven by some rumours on social media, as — driven by some rumours on social media, as mr michael has alluded to, that may— media, as mr michael has alluded to, that may he _ media, as mr michael has alluded to, that may be some people thought the police _ that may be some people thought the police were involved in the deaths of the _ police were involved in the deaths of the two — police were involved in the deaths of the two teenagers and that might have rolled into something quite unsavoury— have rolled into something quite unsavoury and the scenes we saw across _ unsavoury and the scenes we saw across elv— unsavoury and the scenes we saw across ely during the early hours. tonros. _ across ely during the early hours. tomos, there are reports this tomo5, there are reports this morning, one lady called jane palmer i5 morning, one lady called jane palmer is quoted in the news reports, the owner of one of the burnt out car5 saying that she and her family

watched from their windows saying that she and her family watched from their windows as rioter5 5et watched from their windows as rioter5 set fire to her car, that is what she says. she said i am disabled and now i am trapped without my car. this happened to quite a number of vehicles in the area, did it? we quite a number of vehicles in the area. did it?— quite a number of vehicles in the area, did it? ~ . ., ., area, did it? we have spoken to one or two families _ area, did it? we have spoken to one or two families who _ area, did it? we have spoken to one or two families who had _ area, did it? we have spoken to one or two families who had their - area, did it? we have spoken to one or two families who had their cars i or two families who had their cars smashed — or two families who had their cars smashed overnight. you can see this redcar— smashed overnight. you can see this redcar here, — smashed overnight. you can see this redcar here, that it was completely smoke _ redcar here, that it was completely smoke to _ redcar here, that it was completely smoke to -- — redcar here, that it was completely smoke to —— smashed with rocks. all of the _ smoke to —— smashed with rocks. all of the residence we have spoken to that live _ of the residence we have spoken to that live on — of the residence we have spoken to that live on the street, they say they— that live on the street, they say they didn't know anybody that was involved _ they didn't know anybody that was involved in — they didn't know anybody that was involved in the crowd that had turned — involved in the crowd that had turned violent. those are people that lived — turned violent. those are people that lived elsewhere, but they brought — that lived elsewhere, but they brought that violence onto their street— brought that violence onto their street and they were shocked and angry— street and they were shocked and angry that — street and they were shocked and angry that they had to stay indoors while _ angry that they had to stay indoors while this— angry that they had to stay indoors while this violence was taking place outside _ while this violence was taking place outside their windows, they had to shelter— outside their windows, they had to shelter for— outside their windows, they had to shelter for safety. they are the ones _ shelter for safety. they are the ones who — shelter for safety. they are the ones who had their property is damaged, a number of cars driven, a

number— damaged, a number of cars driven, a numberof— damaged, a number of cars driven, a numberof cars burnt damaged, a number of cars driven, a number of cars burnt out. at least two on _ number of cars burnt out. at least two on this— number of cars burnt out. at least two on this row, one about 150 metres— two on this row, one about 150 metres away and we know on another road there _ metres away and we know on another road there were other cars burnt to a crisp— road there were other cars burnt to a crisp that — road there were other cars burnt to a crisp that have been taken away. there _ a crisp that have been taken away. there has— a crisp that have been taken away. there has been widespread damage on this road _ there has been widespread damage on this road and as south wales police have said. — this road and as south wales police have said, they are investigating the deaths of the two teenage boys is one _ the deaths of the two teenage boys is one incident and they will be investigating the chaos that erupted across _ investigating the chaos that erupted across elv— investigating the chaos that erupted across ely as a separate incident. they— across ely as a separate incident. they have — across ely as a separate incident. they have already started making arrests _ they have already started making arrests when it comes to that. how many police _ arrests when it comes to that. how many police were _ arrests when it comes to that. how many police were in _ arrests when it comes to that. firm many police were in the area last night? fin many police were in the area last niuht? ., ., ., ., ., night? on the footage that we have seen online — night? on the footage that we have seen online at _ night? on the footage that we have seen online at that _ night? on the footage that we have seen online at that riot _ night? on the footage that we have seen online at that riot taking - seen online at that riot taking place. — seen online at that riot taking place, you could count around 20 to 30 police _ place, you could count around 20 to 30 police in — place, you could count around 20 to 30 police in riot gear with their shields — 30 police in riot gear with their shields and batons. at times he could _ shields and batons. at times he could see — shields and batons. at times he could see the crowd were charging towards _ could see the crowd were charging towards them, throwing things at point—blank range, fireworks, paving stones, _ point—blank range, fireworks, paving stones, hits— point—blank range, fireworks, paving stones, bits of wood as well and the police _ stones, bits of wood as well and the police had _ stones, bits of wood as well and the police had to force them back. at

its height — police had to force them back. at its height there was probably at least _ its height there was probably at least 30 — its height there was probably at least 30 involved, i'm sure we will -et least 30 involved, i'm sure we will get a _ least 30 involved, i'm sure we will get a proper figure later. when it comes— get a proper figure later. when it comes to — get a proper figure later. when it comes to the crowd, that is estimated to have beenjust over 100 _ estimated to have beenjust over 100 we — estimated to have beenjust over 100. we still found out exactly how that crowd — 100. we still found out exactly how that crowd came to be. the speculation is, speculation had been made _ speculation is, speculation had been made on _ speculation is, speculation had been made on social media as to the police — made on social media as to the police involvement in the original incident — police involvement in the original incident in — police involvement in the original incident in the deaths of two young boys, _ incident in the deaths of two young boys, but _ incident in the deaths of two young boys, but that was not the case, the police _ boys, but that was not the case, the police have — boys, but that was not the case, the police have ruled that out. so we still do _ police have ruled that out. so we still do not — police have ruled that out. so we still do not know, but whatever happened elsewhere has sparked widespread disruption across a large part of— widespread disruption across a large part of this — widespread disruption across a large part of this neighbourhood in cardiff — part of this neighbourhood in cardiff. ., ~ , ., , . part of this neighbourhood in cardiff. ., ~ , . ., cardiff. thank you very much, tomos moraan. cardiff. thank you very much, tomos morgan- the — cardiff. thank you very much, tomos morgan. the police _ cardiff. thank you very much, tomos morgan. the police and _ cardiff. thank you very much, tomos morgan. the police and crime - morgan. the police and crime commissioner morgan. the police and crime commi55ionerfor morgan. the police and crime commissioner for south wales is still with us. mr michael, as you say, social media rife with speculation last night and potentially adding to the tensions of the situation. i am just reading

one report as well, one person he was live tweeting all night, two kids killed by a car nearby. parents were not given access to the situation and they felt, they should have, from what i gather but these are not properly sourced reports. lack of trust in policing and overemphasis on force by the police has made this more intense than it needed to be. there is quite a few reports on line saying similar things, what can you say about that, do you think that was the situation? you are quoting people saying things which are quite random in many ways. the one thing that we do know is that it's very difficult to work out retrospectively what happened in events like this. i was a member of the home affairs select committee looking at the london riots of 2011. quite frankly, despite the attention that has been given to that, it is

still not clear why it happens and why events unfolded as they did. this is a big challenge to the police but what they have to do is find out exactly what happened and who did what. if you take the events in may hill in swansea two years ago, south wales police were very successful at bringing the tip the damage their to court and the courts took a very dim view of what they had done. i am sure that prosecutions will follow from what happened last night. i am sure as well that the community of ely will come together. i can tell you that the communications, both last night and this morning involving local councillors, local council officers and the police have immediately responded in wanting to pull things together and react to what happened. i think people who give you an instant explanation should be

treated with some caution. none of us know exactly what sparked this. there were rumours on social media, but those rumours were notjustified and i think what we have to do now is to allow the police investigation to take its course and also for the police, the councillors, the local authority and local people to work together in order to ensure that there is no repetition. tell together in order to ensure that there is no repetition.— there is no repetition. tell us a little bit more _ there is no repetition. tell us a little bit more about _ there is no repetition. tell us a little bit more about ely, - there is no repetition. tell us a little bit more about ely, we i there is no repetition. tell us a | little bit more about ely, we will speak to the people that know the area well. you say it is an area not without social challenges, but an area of great heart and great warmth as well? tt area of great heart and great warmth as well? , . . , , area of great heart and great warmth as well? , . ., , , ., as well? it is a massive former council estate _ as well? it is a massive former council estate on _ as well? it is a massive former council estate on the _ as well? it is a massive former council estate on the west - as well? it is a massive former council estate on the west of l as well? it is a massive former. council estate on the west of the city of cardiff. it is difficult not to get into characterisations of the fact that an awful lot of people have experienced social and economic

hardship in recent times. and there are great efforts being made by welsh government, by local government, byjoint working between the police and the local authority to do all we can to support local community engagement, notjust in ely, in all the communities across cardiff and across south wales. that is very important indeed. it is very difficult for people not be tempted to pontificate, but i think the best thing that can happen at the moment is to allow the community to pull together, allow the police to undertake their investigations, let prosecutions follow where they are required and let people work

together to re—establish confidence in the local community. the together to re-establish confidence in the local community.— in the local community. the police and crime commissioner - in the local community. the police and crime commissioner for - in the local community. the police and crime commissioner for south j and crime commissioner for south wales, thank you very much indeed. emma is in ely and we have the vicar of ely. canon gold, welcome. emma, people will want to know what happened, people may be living in the area, feel free to get in touch with us as we try to get to the bottom of this. call me on 08085 909693. text 85058. what has it been like for you over the night? tt what has it been like for you over the niuht? .,, , what has it been like for you over the niuht? ., , ., ., the night? it has been a long night, i am half the night? it has been a long night, i am half a — the night? it has been a long night, i am half a mile _ the night? it has been a long night, i am half a mile from _ the night? it has been a long night, i am half a mile from where - the night? it has been a long night, i am half a mile from where the - i am half a mile from where the rights there. we had a helicopter circling for hours during the night. we did know at that point what had happened, we could just hear it and then we could hear fireworks going off. but those two things separately are not an issue, but when it is happening together, you think

something is up. i got up early this morning to see all over the news something that was happening half a mile from where i live. it was a real shock. mile from where i live. it was a realshock. i mile from where i live. it was a real shock. i caught up with social media groups that i am on an informative, notjust gossip. i was horrified about what i was reading. what i was seeing in the pictures, a message from a mother saying, please stop because i need to get to my son's body. which is horrific, he couldn't even be moved, her son, one of the two boys that died. nobody wanted this, the resident of the road didn't want it, the parents of the boys didn't want itjust seemed like an excuse to let off steam and start trouble. i don't think any of the residents were involved directly, it was youths coming up from wherever. news had spread and it was just

from wherever. news had spread and it wasjust an from wherever. news had spread and it was just an excuse i think to have a go at the police and blamed the police. it has become clear that the police. it has become clear that the police. it has become clear that the police were not involved in what happened and all we know is the two boys were on scooters and they hit a bus. that was the first thing that came on facebook last night, was a certain road was closed because there's been an accident involving a bus. 0bviously they hit the bus and were killed instantly. the whole place, the whole of ely is in shock and just upset and disappointed, frustrated because we want to live a quieter life again and suddenly we are plunged into more bad publicity for the area. 99% of ely is very calm and content. it is a warm community as the police and crime commissioner said and it will show that warmth in dealing with what has happened and we just hope it doesn't happened and we just hope it doesn't happen again tonight. the riots we had decades ago went on over a few

nights. wejust hope had decades ago went on over a few nights. we just hope that there is a police presence tonight to stop that happening. the residents were having gates ripped off and thrown at the police. they were terrified in their bedroom windows looking down and screaming. i know a few people who live in that road. they were having their gates taken off and pallets and doors, everything was used as missiles towards the police. it is carnage there this morning. i went past to go somewhere else and it was cordoned off. but obviously it is best to stay away at this point, it is not a place to gawp at, a terrible tragedy happened there, two tragedies happen there last night and we are all upset, really, really upset. especially that poor mother, hours and hours not being able to go to her son's body and him not being able to be moved. it is awful, you don't expect it in this day and age and it probably wasn't local

residents that caused it. well, it wasn't. we are all very shocked and upset and it will take a while to recover from, upset and it will take a while to recoverfrom, i think. upset and it will take a while to recoverfrom, ithink. for upset and it will take a while to recover from, i think. recover from, ithink. for sure, and what ou recover from, ithink. for sure, and what you say _ recover from, ithink. for sure, and what you say is _ recover from, ithink. for sure, and what you say is heartbreaking - recover from, ithink. for sure, andj what you say is heartbreaking about the mother not being able to get to the mother not being able to get to the body of her son. why was that the body of her son. why was that the case? , ., . the body of her son. why was that the case? ,., . .., the body of her son. why was that the case? , ., . . ., ., the case? the police were called and then more were _ the case? the police were called and then more were called _ the case? the police were called and then more were called to _ the case? the police were called and then more were called to deal- the case? the police were called and then more were called to deal with l then more were called to deal with what became a right, notjust the scene of a tragedy being dealt with. i don't think anybody could move. it is still speculation to appoint, the sources are real people in ely and they are clear with what they have said and how everybody is upset for this poor mother who scream at midnight saying, please, stop. i think it became apparent it was going to go on a long time. it is not what you want when you have just lost your child. it is not how you want that surrounding situation to be with the loss your son. a5

want that surrounding situation to be with the loss your son. as a parent, we're all parents, you can only imagine how awful that must feel. he should —— she should have been allowed to be with her boy, him being taken to hospital, even though at that stage it was probably pointless, but it'sjust... the whole thing is just so upsetting. just you think of that poor mother feeling that way over her teenage boy. feeling that way over her teenage bo . ., , ., feeling that way over her teenage bo. ., , boy. oh, god, yeah. absolutely. peole boy. oh, god, yeah. absolutely. people are _ boy. oh, god, yeah. absolutely. people are saying _ boy. oh, god, yeah. absolutely. people are saying some - boy. oh, god, yeah. absolutely. people are saying some at - boy. oh, god, yeah. absolutely. people are saying some at least| boy. oh, god, yeah. absolutely. l people are saying some at least of the hard core of the writers may have come from outside the area. yes, i think something goes on facebook, the first message i saw just on general facebook was a void this road because there's been an accident involving a bus. 0ften accident involving a bus. often people put that up just to let you know what is happening and to avoid a certain area. that was it, but then obviously hours later the riot

started to kick off. 0bviously then obviously hours later the riot started to kick off. obviously it was a bombardment when i looked this morning about what had happened overnight and i switched the news on and there it was on the national news. you don't want to see your community plastered in a bad way all over national news. it is really disappointing. ely is generally a good place, we have a terrible reputation, i think in wales and the uk, i know there is a high drugs issue in this area. it's going on in probably a lot of areas now, you only hear the bad things and this will not have helped. i think we have onlyjust will not have helped. i think we have only just stopped will not have helped. i think we have onlyjust stopped living down the riots from decades ago which went on for two or three nights. i remember, being a younger woman, that going on. of course now everything is recorded, and it is

minutes later and people come and they treat it like it's array. there is a party going on, let's go there. —— a rave. a lot of young men, frustrated, bored, not stimulated and they will find their way up the and they will find their way up the and join in and they will find their way up the andjoin in the and they will find their way up the and join in the chaos. they don't care about the residents, it is a high culture of police hate in this area. ~ , , . area. why is that? tell me, if there is... i area. why is that? tell me, if there is- -- i was — area. why is that? tell me, if there is--- iwasjust _ area. why is that? tell me, if there is... i wasjust going _ area. why is that? tell me, if there is... i wasjust going to _ area. why is that? tell me, if there is. .. i wasjust going to ask- area. why is that? tell me, if there is... i wasjust going to ask you - is... i was just going to ask you that, emma, has there been any evidence of, is there any sense of tensions between the police and certain cohort of young people? filth. certain cohort of young people? oh, es. iwas certain cohort of young people? t yes. i was talking to a policeman certain cohort of young people? ot yes. i was talking to a policeman on a different matter some months ago. he said he covers a few areas and he said ely is the worst for drugs, he said ely is the worst for drugs, he said it is out of control. generally, i think the police are perhaps scared, very concerned when they work in these areas and they

haven't got a high proportion of offer is available now. a lot of them are in teams of five or six and they cover few areas over a 24—hour period. i know there is a lot of concern when something happens in ely, oh dear, it is quite frightening for them. if i was married to a police officer, i would be quite concerned for them. it is all drugs, the drug culture. where i am it is a quieter area, i don't see it, but i knowjust a stone's throw, a few roads away, it is everywhere. trainers hanging over telephone wires, and i know and the entrance to my estate, there are often because they're parked up selling drugs. they have had to cut the trees down now so they are not as hidden away as they were, so hopefully that might stop it. but it is everywhere, you drive along and you know what's going on. i am a middle—aged woman, quite sensible,

but i know the signs. it is sad that i have to do, but ijust try and not get involved, look away. people on scooters and they are becoming more prevalent now and racing along. masked up with hoods, it i am just getting older and ijust don't get is concerned or scared about it but i'm not particularly comfortable with going out after dark. i am in my car, but i am scared i am going to hit somebody on a scooter because theyjust to hit somebody on a scooter because they just come straight across to hit somebody on a scooter because theyjust come straight across the junction in front of you and you have got to have your eyes peeled in front of you at all times. i could hit somebody at a moment's notice and i know all the residents i know in ely are concerned. at night, you can hear them, with my bedroom window open, you can hear them revving up and down on mopeds and scooters, they take over the main roads as soon as it gets dark. which is going to be later now because the summer is here and you can hear them

constantly all the time and the police just can't keep on top of it. there aren't enough of them to keep on top. they are trying and i feel desperately sorry that they were blamed for this incident last night. i saw the police station, the car park from where i was this morning and all the riot vans were parked up there and they look exhausted and bemused. they did their best. you know, having doors and gates thrown at them and fireworks. i don't think anyone gets paid enough to do that job, it's not a place i would want to be at the time of night until three o'clock in the morning, it went on. people are exhausted and the police managed to win through. dreadful, really, really sad. iam very upset for my community this morning. very upset for my community this morninu. , ., , , very upset for my community this mornin.. , .,, , .,, very upset for my community this morninu. , , very upset for my community this mornin.. , , morning. the problem is, as you say,

emma, rightly. _ morning. the problem is, as you say, emma. rightly. a _ morning. the problem is, as you say, emma, rightly, a small— morning. the problem is, as you say, emma, rightly, a small element - morning. the problem is, as you say, emma, rightly, a small element give| emma, rightly, a small element give such a bad reputation to an area when the vast majority of people are law—abiding and decent and like we are hearing from you, so upset about what has happened?— are hearing from you, so upset about what has happened? well, yes. 99% of ely generally — what has happened? well, yes. 99% of ely generally get _ what has happened? well, yes. 99% of ely generally get on — what has happened? well, yes. 99% of ely generally get on with _ what has happened? well, yes. 99% of ely generally get on with their- ely generally get on with their lives. in a past life, iworked in the community, so i am aware of people's attitudes and i have helped a lot of people find work over the years in the job that i a lot of people find work over the years in thejob that i had. people were desperate to climb out of this quagmire of misery. a lot of people did and there is a new element coming through where drugs are very much part of their lives. i say, think of your mental health, i have seen people further down the line from drugs, but it wrecks lives. you cannot tell these young people that it is pointless, there is no hope,

no quality of life. but unfortunately, control has been lost over drugs and in ely, i know from that police officer i have spoken to, they have lost control, they don't have enough manpower to deal with it and so much stuff with legislation, their hands are tied. but drugs are passing hands, helium, those little silver bottles you find lying everywhere. people are taking everything, it frightens me. they don't know what the future is going to be like, they are ruining themselves. nobody will be told, there is so frustration, easy money to be made in drugs. not enoughjobs that would interest people, they won't take anything any more, and thatis won't take anything any more, and that isjust generally won't take anything any more, and that is just generally across the uk. people don't want to work unless are paid a fortune and for very few hours. life isn't like that, my generation you took a job, you went to anotherjob and that is what you

did until you worked your way up to things. but there is no interest, not enough, so many good community programmes in ely. there is one called ace, lots of programmes and training and they are looking at ways to improve people's lives and they do help a lot of people and i know there are programmes all over ely in cardiff that do that, but not enough funding. ely in cardiff that do that, but not enoughfunding. t ely in cardiff that do that, but not enough funding.— ely in cardiff that do that, but not enough funding. i can see you are thinkin: enough funding. i can see you are thinking profoundly _ enough funding. i can see you are thinking profoundly about - enough funding. i can see you are thinking profoundly about this - thinking profoundly about this because you are trying to make sense of it and powerful insights. i am going to bring canonjan golding, the vicar of ely for 17 years. good morning. the vicar of ely for 17 years. good morninu. ,., ., the vicar of ely for 17 years. good mornin. _ ,., ., ., the vicar of ely for 17 years. good morning-_ do - the vicar of ely for 17 years. good morning-_ do you i morning. good morning. do you recognise _ morning. good morning. do you recognise what _ morning. good morning. do you recognise what you _ morning. good morning. do you recognise what you are - morning. good morning. do you recognise what you are hearing | morning. good morning. do you - recognise what you are hearing from mr? �* , recognise what you are hearing from y'::::f ., recognise what you are hearing from y'iiii' ., ., mr? absolutely, 10096. i would agree with everything _ mr? absolutely, 10096. i would agree with everything emma _ mr? absolutely, 10096. i would agree with everything emma has _ mr? absolutely, 10096. i would agree with everything emma has been - with everything emma has been saying. — with everything emma has been saying, we are waking up this morning _ saying, we are waking up this morning completely shocked. like emma _ morning completely shocked. like emma i_ morning completely shocked. like

emma i did know what was happening last night, _ emma i did know what was happening last night, i_ emma i did know what was happening last night, ijust heard the helicopters. to be honest, i wasn't surprised — helicopters. to be honest, i wasn't surprised. 0n helicopters. to be honest, i wasn't surprised. on a hot, sunny day it is commonplace we get the helicopters up commonplace we get the helicopters up in the _ commonplace we get the helicopters up in the evening because the youngsters, they get fired up and we have the _ youngsters, they get fired up and we have the element of control in the evenings — have the element of control in the evenings i— have the element of control in the evenings. ijust assumed it was another— evenings. ijust assumed it was another typical evening in ely, until— another typical evening in ely, until i— another typical evening in ely, until i woke up this morning. sorry, ou have until i woke up this morning. sorry, you have helicopters _ until i woke up this morning. sorry, you have helicopters up _ until i woke up this morning. sorry, you have helicopters up regularly i you have helicopters up regularly because the youngsters get fired up? during the summer it is not uncommon to have police helicopters in the skies, particularly kids on motorbikes, scooters. they are all over the place _ motorbikes, scooters. they are all over the place on _ motorbikes, scooters. they are all over the place on summer - motorbikes, scooters. they are all over the place on summer nights l motorbikes, scooters. they are all i over the place on summer nights and becoming _ over the place on summer nights and becoming more of a problem. that's been _ becoming more of a problem. that's been building up for quite some time _ been building up for quite some time i— been building up for quite some time. i see them when i am walking the dogs _ time. i see them when i am walking the dogs at — time. i see them when i am walking the dogs at night, flying all over on scooters, no lights on, dressed in black. _ on scooters, no lights on, dressed in black, wearing balaclavas so they

cannot _ in black, wearing balaclavas so they cannot be _ in black, wearing balaclavas so they cannot be seen. and then make get this awful— cannot be seen. and then make get this awful tragedy. my thoughts and prayers _ this awful tragedy. my thoughts and prayers are with the families of the boys today— prayers are with the families of the boys today and also the driver involved — boys today and also the driver involved who probably had more time to respond. _ involved who probably had more time to respond, i'm guessing, if it's based _ to respond, i'm guessing, if it's based on — to respond, i'm guessing, if it's based on anything i see the way scooters— based on anything i see the way scooters are written around here. terrible _ scooters are written around here. terrible situation. but whatever the cause _ terrible situation. but whatever the cause of— terrible situation. but whatever the cause of these riots, whether it was to do— cause of these riots, whether it was to do with _ cause of these riots, whether it was to do with the crash or something else, _ to do with the crash or something else, i_ to do with the crash or something else, i would want to say it is never— else, i would want to say it is never able _ else, i would want to say it is never able to respond to anything and certainly in our community, which _ and certainly in our community, which is — and certainly in our community, which is a — and certainly in our community, which is a set is a wonderful community, people have such big hearts. _ community, people have such big hearts, salt of the earth. i would encourage — hearts, salt of the earth. i would encourage everybody not to respond more _ encourage everybody not to respond more anger. towards the people and not to— more anger. towards the people and not to take _ more anger. towards the people and not to take the law into their own hands _ not to take the law into their own hands but — not to take the law into their own hands butjust let not to take the law into their own hands but just let the police investigation run its course so they can get— investigation run its course so they can get to — investigation run its course so they can get to the bottom of what happened here. and keep that sense of calmness. and also social media

is such— of calmness. and also social media is such a _ of calmness. and also social media is such a dangerous thing and it does _ is such a dangerous thing and it does not — is such a dangerous thing and it does not take much for people to respond — does not take much for people to respond to— does not take much for people to respond to something they see on social— respond to something they see on social media as if it is fact. we can only— social media as if it is fact. we can only guess a lot of the youngsters that ended up in this riot last— youngsters that ended up in this riot last night were responding to something less on social media. i 'ust something less on social media. i just really— something less on social media. i just really urge caution about believing what is on social media. especially— believing what is on social media. especially when it comes so quickly after an— especially when it comes so quickly after an event.— after an event. everyone has an auenda, after an event. everyone has an agenda. don't _ after an event. everyone has an agenda, don't they? _ after an event. everyone has an agenda, don't they? how- after an event. everyone has an agenda, don't they? how old i after an event. everyone has an l agenda, don't they? how old the after an event. everyone has an - agenda, don't they? how old the kids on the streets of talking about? the ouncest on the streets of talking about? the youngest one is probably only 11 or 12, youngest one is probably only 11 or 12. some _ youngest one is probably only 11 or 12. some of— youngest one is probably only 11 or 12, some of them i recognise from primary— 12, some of them i recognise from primary school when i am going into the assembly but right through to their teams. you see them often hanging — their teams. you see them often hanging around street corners on their— hanging around street corners on their skater and someone else was up, their skater and someone else was up. they— their skater and someone else was up, they hand something over, obviously— up, they hand something over, obviously drugs and then they mouth off again _

obviously drugs and then they mouth off again. they are being used to carry— off again. they are being used to carry stuff— off again. they are being used to carry stuff around on the scooters and it's _ carry stuff around on the scooters and it's absolutely tragic. the way young _ and it's absolutely tragic. the way young people are getting sucked into this alternative lifestyle that are so disruptive, notjust this alternative lifestyle that are so disruptive, not just for them this alternative lifestyle that are so disruptive, notjust for them but for the _ so disruptive, notjust for them but for the community they are part of. my heart _ for the community they are part of. my heart bleeds for ely today. the brush _ my heart bleeds for ely today. the brush that— my heart bleeds for ely today. the brush that the community will be tarred _ brush that the community will be tarred with again because this has happened, it took a long time after the 91 _ happened, it took a long time after the 91 riots — happened, it took a long time after the 91 riots for ely to be seen in a different— the 91 riots for ely to be seen in a different and more positive light because — different and more positive light because it suddenly got this awful reputation and we worked really hard. _ reputation and we worked really hard. lots — reputation and we worked really hard, lots of different community groups— hard, lots of different community groups for— hard, lots of different community groups for many years to dispel the kind of— groups for many years to dispel the kind of impression of ely in the wider— kind of impression of ely in the wider society.— kind of impression of ely in the wider society. kind of impression of ely in the widersocie ., wider society. somebody had said he had last week _ wider society. somebody had said he had last week that _ wider society. somebody had said he had last week that this _ wider society. somebody had said he had last week that this would - wider society. somebody had said he j had last week that this would happen when he had been astonished? t was when he had been astonished? i was 'ust talkin: when he had been astonished? i was just talking to _ when he had been astonished? i was just talking to jason _ when he had been astonished? i was just talking to jason mohammad this morning _ just talking to jason mohammad this

morning on radio wales and i had a conversation with him some weeks ago. _ conversation with him some weeks ago. will— conversation with him some weeks ago. will be — conversation with him some weeks ago, will be talking about anti—social behaviour in ely and were _ anti—social behaviour in ely and were talking then about especially the kids— were talking then about especially the kids on the backs with the balaclavas, menacing, the low level vandalism _ balaclavas, menacing, the low level vandalism going on, broken glass everywhere and i said to jason, something is simmering here, there is unrest _ something is simmering here, there is unrest rising and i would not be surprised — is unrest rising and i would not be surprised in— is unrest rising and i would not be surprised in a week's time we do not see something much more serious happening — see something much more serious happening. and here we are, i woke up happening. and here we are, i woke upto— happening. and here we are, i woke uptoat— happening. and here we are, i woke up to at this — happening. and here we are, i woke up to at this morning so i am not in one way— up to at this morning so i am not in one way surprised, i am very saddened _ one way surprised, i am very saddened and angry at the people who did this _ saddened and angry at the people who did this. but i am not surprised, really _ did this. but i am not surprised, really and _ did this. but i am not surprised, really and i_ did this. but i am not surprised, really. and i think as a society we need _ really. and i think as a society we need to— really. and i think as a society we need to look at why people respond in these _ need to look at why people respond in these kind of situations in this way _ in these kind of situations in this way by— in these kind of situations in this way. by and large, it is young men. the mentality of the crowd as well.

i know a lot of these guys from when i know a lot of these guys from when i have _ i know a lot of these guys from when i have been— i know a lot of these guys from when i have been going into school. when they are _ i have been going into school. when they are on — i have been going into school. when they are on their own you can have a very reasonable conversation with them, _ very reasonable conversation with them, they aren't nice lads but put them _ them, they aren't nice lads but put them in _ them, they aren't nice lads but put them in a — them, they aren't nice lads but put them in a group and you get a group mentality— them in a group and you get a group mentality and their behaviour completely changes. they go with the crowd _ completely changes. they go with the crowd and _ completely changes. they go with the crowd. and then it feels and feels and then— crowd. and then it feels and feels and then we see events like last night _ and then we see events like last niuht. . ., ,, . ., and then we see events like last niuht. . . ., . ., night. that aspect of crowd psychology _ night. that aspect of crowd psychology is _ night. that aspect of crowd psychology is worth - night. that aspect of crowd i psychology is worth exploring night. that aspect of crowd - psychology is worth exploring and we will do that in a couple of moments. 0ne will do that in a couple of moments. one of the things i would say, i've been _ one of the things i would say, i've been here — one of the things i would say, i've been here 17 years and we are thinking — been here 17 years and we are thinking about why things are changing so dramatically here particularly with young people. i think— particularly with young people. i think back to what... i was like, i arrange _ think back to what... i was like, i arrange funerals and i met families arrange funerals and i met families a lot and _ arrange funerals and i met families a lot and they talk about the good old days _ a lot and they talk about the good old days of ely and the jobs that they did — old days of ely and the jobs that they did. years ago there was a lot of manual—

they did. years ago there was a lot of manual work and apprenticeships, the lads _ of manual work and apprenticeships, the lads coming out of school. hard physical— the lads coming out of school. hard physicaljobs that gave them an opportunity to burn off energy but also it _ opportunity to burn off energy but also it gave them a skill, trade, pride. _ also it gave them a skill, trade, pride. a — also it gave them a skill, trade, pride, a sense of self discipline and respect for others that they were _ and respect for others that they were working with. all of that manual — were working with. all of that manual work is pretty much gone. it's manual work is pretty much gone. it's all— manual work is pretty much gone. it's all it— manual work is pretty much gone. it's all it stuff.— it's all it stuff. these are such familiar themes _ it's all it stuff. these are such familiar themes which - it's all it stuff. these are such familiar themes which i - it's all it stuff. these are such familiar themes which i think | it's all it stuff. these are such i familiar themes which i think will resonate with many people listening and watching. it's a sadly familiar tale, a narrative for many british cities but thank you so much. i'm thinking about what you said, your heart bleeds for ely today. i cannot thank you enough forjoining us. reverend. more to come and we will explore the psychology of the crowd, we are exploring and trying to find out what happened in cardiff last night, this is the first hour this morning. apologies for going light,

it is 9:36am. here is the news from nick. two teenagers are understood to have died in a crash before a riot broke out in cardiff last night. the south wales police and crime commissioner, alun michael, says around 12 officers were injured in ely last night. he insists the two teenagers who died were not being chased by police at the time. police are due to start searching a reservoir in southern portugal, as part of the investigation into the disappearance of madeleine mccann. german police instigated the search, as they believe they have the prime suspect in jail for a separate offence. bbc news has found that vapes — confiscated from school pupils — contained high levels of metals. tests of some of devices — most of which were illegal — showed children could be inhaling unsafe amounts of lead and nickel. whatsapp is to allow people to edit messages within 15 minutes of them being sent.

the new feature will be rolled out over the coming weeks. katie smith has the sport now. eddie howe says this summer will be newcastle's toughest transfer window to date aftr they secured champions league football next season for the first time in 20yr5. howe added 'there is a very small pool of players to look at. we have to recruit wisely�* — they drew 0—0 with leicester to confirm their top four poistion — while leicester remain in the bottom three — two points from safety, they must beat west ham and hope everton dont win against bournemouth on the final day meanwhile micah richards says that the treatment of real madrid player viniciuer in la liga shows that anti—racism measures are not working — on the latest 5live football daily podcast richards called the league's president 'embarrassing' for suggesting vinicius 'wasnt informed' on the matter of racism after the brazilian called out valencia fans for their chanting. and former world number one tennis player simona halep has accused tennis�* doping authority of "publicly stating one thing while privately doing another" —

they've requested a further delay to her hearing. halep was charged with a second doping offence last week over "irregularities" in her biological passport and has been suspended since october after a positive doping test at the us open. let me tell you what is happening at ten o'clock. we will discuss my thoughts on what happened in cardiff

coming up but a bbc investigation has found high levels of harmful metals that might metals in illegal vapours used by schoolchildren and children inhaling them could be inhaling twice the daily self amount of lead and nine times the safe amount of nickel and the world health organization says high levels of lead exposure in children can affect the central nervous system and brain development so these are illegal vapes, inevitably brightly coloured. seen as an accessory. you are in the city streets, you go into are in the city streets, you go into a park, you get the fifth of the split, the smoke from the cigarettes. it is vaping becoming as intrinsic as to youth culture and this method of proving that stopping smoking is more often a in and of

itself, the life of younger people, notjust generation z, many others. that is coming up at 10am but for now, more coming up in cardiff. we were speaking to the local vicar earlier in ely, talking about the psychology of the crowd and i thought it would be good to bring in a professor of social psychology and john druryjoins us from the university of sussex. listening an aduu university of sussex. listening an adult with great what are your thoughts on what is going on psychologically and in a collective psychology will run something like this happens? there's a lot of

people on an outer circle who are interested and are taking part to a lesser degree and then there are those for want of a better word rubbernecking.— rubbernecking. your thoughts, - lease? rubbernecking. your thoughts, please? the — rubbernecking. your thoughts, please? the first _ rubbernecking. your thoughts, please? the first thing - rubbernecking. your thoughts, please? the first thing is - rubbernecking. your thoughts, please? the first thing is i - rubbernecking. your thoughts, l please? the first thing is i know what happen very little about what happened in cardiff, all i have seen this in his reports but to answer your question by telling you about some research on how community riots begin, how they spread. we carried out a large programme of work on the 2011 riots, you may remember in england that started in london and spread across the country. one of the ideas about that riot like many other community riots is any spark sets off the riot and anybodyjoins in and the kind of lose control of their behaviour. but looking closely at that event, there was a pattern

similar to brixton, 1981, at that event, there was a pattern similar to brixton,1981, los angeles riots in 64 when there was a death caused by police. and that was widely seen in the community but the rioting did not happen immediately afterwards, it wasn'tjust rioting did not happen immediately afterwards, it wasn't just a spark that set people off, there were several days that occurred between the death and the rioting. and in that period, it was the police handling of the death that actually led to the rioting so people outside the police station in tottenham, the interaction of the police, they were seen to assault a young woman that led to the rioting on the day. so i do not know much about cardiff but there were rumours of people being killed by the police and in any way, if that is not sure, does it matter because just look at what happened in brixton in 81. there were people

injured, the police are seen as being because that, it was not true but because of the history of bad relations between the community and the police, it could happen to you, 0k? therefore it became people gathering, some legacy wanting to know what was going on. rather than wanting to get involved. then you have an interaction whereby police intervention sometimes is seen as a legitimate and interfering with people's right to assemble in that space and that is the point at which conflict starts occurring. but space and that is the point at which conflict starts occurring.— conflict starts occurring. but it's alwa s a conflict starts occurring. but it's always a tiny — conflict starts occurring. but it's always a tiny minority _ conflict starts occurring. but it's always a tiny minority causing i conflict starts occurring. but it's i always a tiny minority causing the problem, isn't it?— problem, isn't it? that's another idea that it's _ problem, isn't it? that's another idea that it's only _ problem, isn't it? that's another idea that it's only a _ problem, isn't it? that's another idea that it's only a small- problem, isn't it? that's another i idea that it's only a small number. the first idea is that it is a small number of people who somehow influenced other people to join number of people who somehow influenced other people tojoin in. there's not much evidence for this.

yet more seems to be the case that although some people, a small minority might be hostile to the police already and would welcome conflict, others change towards embracing conflict when they respond a former police interaction. it is a police action seen as and dangers that changes other people to adopt that changes other people to adopt that more conflictual attitude. there is no evidence really that people who are hostile to the police have some malign power over others and get them tojoin in but there is evidence that certain forms of police intervention are seen as a legitimate and indiscriminate, seen as bringing in and involving and including and affecting others in the crowd that changes attitudes and

changes people towards being more ready to engage in conflict. qt ready to engage in conflict. of course it is a two—way street, not talking about the specific situation but in other situations police have to be vigilant in some areas because of trouble on the streets and that's just a fact of life. they have to watch and they have to be there, they have to monitor. this watch and they have to be there, they have to monitor.— watch and they have to be there, they have to monitor. this is true but there's _ they have to monitor. this is true but there's different _ they have to monitor. this is true but there's different ways - they have to monitor. this is true but there's different ways of - they have to monitor. this is true | but there's different ways of doing that. one of the findings from the 2011 riots again was if you look at stop and search figures, stop and search might be regarded as a way of monitoring, stop and search figures were strongly associated with the likelihood of rioting in different london boroughs and you break down the stop and search figures, you find very few led to arrests so they were widely seen as just a way of harassing the local community, seen as a form of injustice, a form of

monitoring which badly backfired. you heard about the drug problems in the area, a hardcore of activity in years and i'm sure many people listening in many parts of the country will recognise that silver is that as isn't there? band country will recognise that silver is that as isn't there?— country will recognise that silver is that as isn't there? and again it is that as isn't there? and again it is how that _ is that as isn't there? and again it is how that is _ is that as isn't there? and again it is how that is dealt _ is that as isn't there? and again it is how that is dealt with. - is that as isn't there? and again it is how that is dealt with. if - is that as isn't there? and again it is how that is dealt with. if stop i is how that is dealt with. if stop and search is used, there may well be a small minority the community rejects but at the form of policing is so inclusive that it brings into the sweep other people who are not involved in that than those other people come to be hostile to the police, that's the problem and you get a larger number turning against the police so that is the issue, how inclusive and indiscriminate that form of monitoring policing s. $5 form of monitoring policing s. as ou form of monitoring policing s. as you say, not talking about this specific situation but you are telling us about some of the research that you have done about other incidents. frank has got in

touch with us, former police superintendent, what do you think about what you just heard? t superintendent, what do you think about what you just heard? about what you 'ust heard? i watched it last night. — about what you 'ust heard? i watched it last night. as— about what you just heard? i watched it last night. as a _ about what you just heard? i watched it last night. as a retired _ about what you just heard? i watched it last night. as a retired police - it last night. as a retired police officer. — it last night. as a retired police officer. i— it last night. as a retired police officer, i was appalled. this is not unusual — officer, i was appalled. this is not unusual we — officer, i was appalled. this is not unusual. we have been discussing how to stop _ unusual. we have been discussing how to stop these things and hide the aftermath discussion before it happened and things, it is happening all the _ happened and things, it is happening all the time. and quite regularly in some _ all the time. and quite regularly in some parts— all the time. and quite regularly in some parts of the country. and i think. _ some parts of the country. and i think. as — some parts of the country. and i think, as i've seen it last night and i_ think, as i've seen it last night and i am — think, as i've seen it last night and i am not here to protect the police. — and i am not here to protect the police. i— and i am not here to protect the police, i have nothing to do with that particular area, i think we all should _ that particular area, i think we all should apologise to the parents of the two _ should apologise to the parents of the two deceased people that were involved _ the two deceased people that were involved in that accident who saw all of— involved in that accident who saw all of this— involved in that accident who saw all of this going on, apparently around — all of this going on, apparently around the car for these two had

passed _ around the car for these two had passed away or been killed instantly in whatever way and i think we should — in whatever way and i think we should all— in whatever way and i think we should all apologise to them that they had — should all apologise to them that they had to be put through this trauma — they had to be put through this trauma on— they had to be put through this trauma on top of trauma. but what do we need _ trauma on top of trauma. but what do we need to— trauma on top of trauma. but what do we need to do? i do not see that the police _ we need to do? i do not see that the police can— we need to do? i do not see that the police can be — we need to do? i do not see that the police can be criticised for what they— police can be criticised for what they did — police can be criticised for what they did last night, they were not there _ they did last night, they were not there at— they did last night, they were not there at the scene when the accident happened. _ there at the scene when the accident happened, they arrived later to investigate and were not allowed to. and then _ investigate and were not allowed to. and then the demonstrators came which _ and then the demonstrators came which i _ and then the demonstrators came which i call— and then the demonstrators came which i call cowards because they cover— which i call cowards because they cover their— which i call cowards because they cover their faces, they whip up things— cover their faces, they whip up things and _ cover their faces, they whip up things and they threw it at the police — things and they threw it at the police for— things and they threw it at the police for some sort of pleasure. and i_ police for some sort of pleasure. and i think— police for some sort of pleasure. and i think it's time we started at the time — and i think it's time we started at the time the event takes place. that the time the event takes place. that the police _ the time the event takes place. that the police should have the power and i the police should have the power and i know— the police should have the power and i know people will say we should not do this _ i know people will say we should not do this but — i know people will say we should not do this. but what is worse than two people _ do this. but what is worse than two people lying in the street dead and the police — people lying in the street dead and the police and families, no one can

-et the police and families, no one can get to— the police and families, no one can get to them — the police and families, no one can get to them and after all, they could — get to them and after all, they could have been still alive, who knows. — could have been still alive, who knows. for— could have been still alive, who knows, for the first period? we do not know _ knows, for the first period? we do not know the full circumstances but something — not know the full circumstances but something like a water cannon and i note with _ something like a water cannon and i note with particular politicians and local authorities will not rest very well with— local authorities will not rest very well with them but what it would have _ well with them but what it would have done last night is, these are cowards. — have done last night is, these are cowards, lads whatever we say about them. _ cowards, lads whatever we say about them, spontaneous, that was a cowardly— them, spontaneous, that was a cowardly act what they did last night — cowardly act what they did last night. they do not like, carrots do not like _ night. they do not like, carrots do not like getting wet, that would be one thing _ not like getting wet, that would be one thing but you could also protect police _ one thing but you could also protect police and _ one thing but you could also protect police and the public. i've been looking — police and the public. i've been looking at— police and the public. i've been looking at your brilliant portrayal of last _ looking at your brilliant portrayal of last night through the night and today _ of last night through the night and today. the car in the street, it is on the _ today. the car in the street, it is on the screen now. alongside or between — on the screen now. alongside or between houses with people in the houses. _ between houses with people in the houses, looking through the windows,

the implications of that, should the petrol— the implications of that, should the petrol tank have exploded would have been horrendous. we might have been dealing _ been horrendous. we might have been dealing with a lot more injuries or deaths _ dealing with a lot more injuries or deaths or— dealing with a lot more injuries or deaths or could had that happened on the fire _ deaths or could had that happened on the fire service were not allowed to -et the fire service were not allowed to get to— the fire service were not allowed to get to it _ the fire service were not allowed to get to it and they were apparently bombshell with these various weapons that they— bombshell with these various weapons that they were using and tearing up the street — that they were using and tearing up the street. that would have stopped that. the street. that would have stopped that they— the street. that would have stopped that. they would not with the proper use of— that. they would not with the proper use of these water cannon or whatever— use of these water cannon or whatever you want to use in its place. — whatever you want to use in its place. we — whatever you want to use in its place, we have got to stop this, nikkl _ place, we have got to stop this, nikkl this— place, we have got to stop this, nikki. this is not something that is going _ nikki. this is not something that is going away — nikki. this is not something that is going away. we had it for years, last year— going away. we had it for years, last year it — going away. we had it for years, last year it was in swansea, in other— last year it was in swansea, in other parts— last year it was in swansea, in other parts of the country, we are hearing _ other parts of the country, we are hearing about these things going on and i hearing about these things going on and i think— hearing about these things going on and i think it's time that the politicians look at this and look at

themselves and say, this is wrong. there's— themselves and say, this is wrong. there's always talk about anti—social behaviour and i want to read a text which is interesting following what you just said. balaclavas and ski masks are a big part of the problem, taxable anonymity when things calm down. professor, let me read a text. frank was a former police officer and interesting to hear from was a former police officer and interesting to hearfrom him but professor, professor of social psychology, you guessed seems already to blame the police without any reference to personal responsibility of the rioters, just because we disagree with police tactics, it does not mean we agree with rioting, s could be considered a positive thing, that is from simon adams in leicester. i will let you come back but i want to bring in angela from cardiff. good morning.

you know this area, what are your feelings this morning? t you know this area, what are your feelings this morning?— feelings this morning? i was completely _ feelings this morning? i was completely stunned - feelings this morning? i was completely stunned when i i feelings this morning? i was - completely stunned when i woke feelings this morning? i was completely stunned when i woke up and saw— completely stunned when i woke up and saw the — completely stunned when i woke up and saw the news _ completely stunned when i woke up and saw the news early _ completely stunned when i woke up and saw the news early this - completely stunned when i woke up. and saw the news early this morning. immediately— and saw the news early this morning. immediately my _ and saw the news early this morning. immediately my mind _ and saw the news early this morning. immediately my mind went _ and saw the news early this morning. immediately my mind went back- and saw the news early this morning. immediately my mind went back to i and saw the news early this morning. | immediately my mind went back to 91 when there _ immediately my mind went back to 91 when there were _ immediately my mind went back to 91 when there were the _ immediately my mind went back to 91 when there were the dreadful- immediately my mind went back to 91 when there were the dreadful riots, i when there were the dreadful riots, ithink— when there were the dreadful riots, i think they— when there were the dreadful riots, i think they were _ when there were the dreadful riots, i think they were worse _ when there were the dreadful riots, i think they were worse than - when there were the dreadful riots, i think they were worse than s - when there were the dreadful riots, i think they were worse than s lasti i think they were worse than 5 last night _ i think they were worse than 5 last night than — i think they were worse than 5 last night than they— i think they were worse than 5 last night than they were _ i think they were worse than 5 last night than they were in _ i think they were worse than 5 last night than they were in 91 - i think they were worse than 5 last night than they were in 91 but - i think they were worse than 5 last night than they were in 91 but ely. night than they were in 91 but ely like every— night than they were in 91 but ely like every area, _ night than they were in 91 but ely like every area, it _ night than they were in 91 but ely like every area, it is _ night than they were in 91 but ely like every area, it is a _ night than they were in 91 but ely like every area, it is a great - like every area, it is a great community. _ like every area, it is a great community. i_ like every area, it is a great community, i know- like every area, it is a great community, i know peoplel like every area, it is a great - community, i know people who live there _ community, i know people who live there very— community, i know people who live there. very community _ community, i know people who live there. very community minded, . community, i know people who live there. very community minded, ii community, i know people who live i there. very community minded, i was listening _ there. very community minded, i was listening to _ there. very community minded, i was listening to one — there. very community minded, i was listening to one of— there. very community minded, i was listening to one of the _ there. very community minded, i was listening to one of the priests - listening to one of the priests based — listening to one of the priests based in _ listening to one of the priests based in a _ listening to one of the priests based in a church _ listening to one of the priests based in a church in— listening to one of the priests based in a church in ely- listening to one of the priests based in a church in ely this i based in a church in ely this morning _ based in a church in ely this morning when— based in a church in ely this morning when i— based in a church in ely this morning when i was- based in a church in ely this| morning when i was driving. based in a church in ely this - morning when i was driving. and she was talking _ morning when i was driving. and she was talking about _ morning when i was driving. and she was talking about the _ morning when i was driving. and she was talking about the number - morning when i was driving. and she was talking about the number of - was talking about the number of youngsters — was talking about the number of youngsters going _ was talking about the number of youngsters going around - was talking about the number of youngsters going around on - was talking about the number ofl youngsters going around on bikes with balaclavas _ youngsters going around on bikes with balaclavas on _ youngsters going around on bikes with balaclavas on and _ youngsters going around on bikes with balaclavas on and she - youngsters going around on bikes with balaclavas on and she said i youngsters going around on bikes with balaclavas on and she said if| with balaclavas on and she said if you stop — with balaclavas on and she said if you stop and _ with balaclavas on and she said if you stop and talk _ with balaclavas on and she said if you stop and talk to _ with balaclavas on and she said if you stop and talk to one - with balaclavas on and she said if you stop and talk to one of - with balaclavas on and she said if you stop and talk to one of these j you stop and talk to one of these people. — you stop and talk to one of these people. they— you stop and talk to one of these people. they are _ you stop and talk to one of these people, they are absolutely - you stop and talk to one of these | people, they are absolutely lovely and delightful— people, they are absolutely lovely and delightful but _ people, they are absolutely lovely and delightful but when _ people, they are absolutely lovely and delightful but when they - people, they are absolutely lovely and delightful but when they get i and delightful but when they get

together. — and delightful but when they get together. that _ and delightful but when they get together, that is _ and delightful but when they get together, that is when _ and delightful but when they get together, that is when the - and delightful but when they get i together, that is when the problem starts _ together, that is when the problem starts. �* ., , ., together, that is when the problem starts. �* ., ., starts. i'm glad you raised that anuela. i starts. i'm glad you raised that angela- i was _ starts. i'm glad you raised that angela. i was going _ starts. i'm glad you raised that angela. i was going to - starts. i'm glad you raised that angela. i was going to ask - starts. i'm glad you raised that angela. i was going to ask the | angela. i was going to ask the professor. professor, it's the difference between the behaviour and thought patterns of an individual and how that changes drastically when they are getting a different confirmation bias in numbers? we have just lost confirmation bias in numbers? we havejust lost him. but confirmation bias in numbers? we have just lost him. but angela, confirmation bias in numbers? we havejust lost him. but angela, he made the point and you made it very well and we heard it from the canon earlier on, please carry on. fine well and we heard it from the canon earlier on, please carry on.- earlier on, please carry on. one of the other things _ earlier on, please carry on. one of the other things she _ earlier on, please carry on. one of the other things she said - earlier on, please carry on. one of the other things she said it - earlier on, please carry on. one of the other things she said it was i the other things she said it was years— the other things she said it was years ago. _ the other things she said it was years ago, leaving _ the other things she said it was years ago, leaving aside - the other things she said it was years ago, leaving aside what i years ago, leaving aside what happened _ years ago, leaving aside what happened in— years ago, leaving aside what happened in 91 _ years ago, leaving aside what happened in 91 there - years ago, leaving aside what happened in 91 there were . years ago, leaving aside what . happened in 91 there were things like apprenticeships, _ happened in 91 there were things like apprenticeships, jobs, - happened in 91 there were things like apprenticeships, jobs, there | like apprenticeships, jobs, there were _ like apprenticeships, jobs, there were goals — like apprenticeships, jobs, there were goals that _ like apprenticeships, jobs, there were goals that these _ like apprenticeships, jobs, there l were goals that these youngsters could _ were goals that these youngsters could attain — were goals that these youngsters could attain and _ were goals that these youngsters could attain and achieve - were goals that these youngsters could attain and achieve and - were goals that these youngsters could attain and achieve and give j could attain and achieve and give them _ could attain and achieve and give them some — could attain and achieve and give them some feeling _ could attain and achieve and give them some feeling of— could attain and achieve and give them some feeling of self—worthj could attain and achieve and give - them some feeling of self—worth but it seems— them some feeling of self—worth but it seems as — them some feeling of self—worth but it seems as if— them some feeling of self—worth but it seems as if that _ them some feeling of self—worth but it seems as if that is _ them some feeling of self—worth but it seems as if that is lacking - them some feeling of self—worth but it seems as if that is lacking now- it seems as if that is lacking now and i_ it seems as if that is lacking now and i think— it seems as if that is lacking now and i think if— it seems as if that is lacking now and i think if there _ it seems as if that is lacking now and i think if there is _ it seems as if that is lacking now and i think if there is certainly.

it seems as if that is lacking now and i think if there is certainly a i and i think if there is certainly a lack— and i think if there is certainly a lack of— and i think if there is certainly a lack of trust _ and i think if there is certainly a lack of trust in _ and i think if there is certainly a lack of trust in the _ and i think if there is certainly a lack of trust in the police, - and i think if there is certainly a lack of trust in the police, not i lack of trust in the police, not just— lack of trust in the police, not just cardiff— lack of trust in the police, not just cardiff but _ lack of trust in the police, not just cardiff but i— lack of trust in the police, not just cardiff but i think- lack of trust in the police, not just cardiff but i think that. lack of trust in the police, not i just cardiff but i think that goes beyond — just cardiff but i think that goes beyond cardiff, _ just cardiff but i think that goes beyond cardiff, it— just cardiff but i think that goes beyond cardiff, it does- just cardiff but i think that goes beyond cardiff, it does not- just cardiff but i think that goesi beyond cardiff, it does not help. just cardiff but i think that goes i beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think— beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think this — beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think this is — beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think this is a _ beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think this is a jigsaw— beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think this is a jigsaw in _ beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think this is a jigsaw in that - beyond cardiff, it does not help. i think this is a jigsaw in that there| think this is a jigsaw in that there are a _ think this is a jigsaw in that there are a number— think this is a jigsaw in that there are a number of— think this is a jigsaw in that there are a number of contributing - think this is a jigsaw in that there i are a number of contributing factors but as— are a number of contributing factors but as to _ are a number of contributing factors but as to what — are a number of contributing factors but as to what sparked _ are a number of contributing factors but as to what sparked it _ are a number of contributing factors but as to what sparked it all, - but as to what sparked it all, obviously— but as to what sparked it all, obviously i _ but as to what sparked it all, obviously i have _ but as to what sparked it all, obviously i have no - but as to what sparked it all, obviously i have no idea - but as to what sparked it all, obviously i have no idea butl but as to what sparked it all, i obviously i have no idea but it's terribly— obviously i have no idea but it's terribly sad. _ obviously i have no idea but it's terribly sad. i_ obviously i have no idea but it's terribly sad, i know, _ obviously i have no idea but it's terribly sad, i know, the - obviously i have no idea but it's| terribly sad, i know, the people obviously i have no idea but it's- terribly sad, i know, the people who live there _ terribly sad, i know, the people who live there will — terribly sad, i know, the people who live there will be _ terribly sad, i know, the people who live there will be devastated - terribly sad, i know, the people who live there will be devastated by - live there will be devastated by this _ live there will be devastated by this and — live there will be devastated by this and i_ live there will be devastated by this. and ijust _ live there will be devastated by this. and ijust hope _ live there will be devastated by this. and ijust hope they- live there will be devastated by this. and ijust hope they can i live there will be devastated by i this. and ijust hope they can get into the _ this. and ijust hope they can get into the community _ this. and ijust hope they can get into the community and - this. and ijust hope they can get into the community and see - this. and ijust hope they can get into the community and see if. into the community and see if healing — into the community and see if healing can _ into the community and see if healing can start _ into the community and see if healing can start again. - into the community and see if healing can start again. as. into the community and see if- healing can start again. as happened after the _ healing can start again. as happened after the last — healing can start again. as happened after the last one. _ healing can start again. as happened after the last one. because - healing can start again. as happened after the last one. because most - healing can start again. as happened after the last one. because most of. after the last one. because most of the people — after the last one. because most of the people who _ after the last one. because most of the people who live _ after the last one. because most of the people who live there _ after the last one. because most of the people who live there are - after the last one. because most of the people who live there are really tood the people who live there are really good people — the people who live there are really good people and _ the people who live there are really good people. and like _ the people who live there are really good people. and like always, - the people who live there are really good people. and like always, it. good people. and like always, it takes _ good people. and like always, it takes any— good people. and like always, it takes any few— good people. and like always, it takes any few people _ good people. and like always, it takes any few people who - good people. and like always, it takes any few people who just i good people. and like always, it. takes any few people who just lose that sense — takes any few people who just lose that sense of — takes any few people who just lose that sense of worth _ takes any few people who just lose that sense of worth and _ takes any few people who just lose that sense of worth and sense - takes any few people who just lose that sense of worth and sense of i that sense of worth and sense of common— that sense of worth and sense of common sense _ that sense of worth and sense of common sense for— that sense of worth and sense of common sense for a _ that sense of worth and sense of common sense for a while - that sense of worth and sense of common sense for a while for. that sense of worth and sense of common sense for a while for all that sense of worth and sense of i common sense for a while for all of this to _ common sense for a while for all of this to spark — common sense for a while for all of this to spark off, _ common sense for a while for all of this to spark off, it's _ common sense for a while for all of this to spark off, it's just _ common sense for a while for all of this to spark off, it's just awful - this to spark off, it's just awful and i_ this to spark off, it's just awful and i feel— this to spark off, it's just awful and i feel desperately - this to spark off, it's just awful and i feel desperately sad. - this to spark off, it'sjust awful and i feel desperately sad. robin in bar in and i feel desperately sad. robin in itarry in south _ and i feel desperately sad. robin in barry in south wales, _

and i feel desperately sad. robin in barry in south wales, say _ and i feel desperately sad. robin in barry in south wales, say what - and i feel desperately sad. robin in barry in south wales, say what you | barry in south wales, say what you want to. .., ., barry in south wales, say what you want to. ,., .. .. barry in south wales, say what you want to. ,., ., ., ,., .. barry in south wales, say what you want to. .., ., ., ,., ., ., want to. good morning. good morning. first of all i _ want to. good morning. good morning. first of all i disagree _ want to. good morning. good morning. first of all i disagree with _ want to. good morning. good morning. first of all i disagree with frank, - first of all i disagree with frank, we do not want water cannon and things like that. this really starts going back many years. the closure of police stations, especially the one in ely. you've got ely police station up until literally a few months ago, it looked like a derelict building, it was filthy, totally dishevelled. the back of the police station and the entrance at the back looks like it's in northern ireland with all the barbed wire and whatever. it doesn't look like a good place to go and you cannot go there to see police, that is the one issue. that is happening all over south wales. the other thing as well as policemen on the street. i was in

the first, i did 30 years, i was in the first, i did 30 years, i was in the 91 riots in cardiff and bristol riots. i know all about this. there are a lot of these lads up in ely and as everyone says, 99% of the people there are lovely, they really are. and by introducing which mate, there were eight officers. he went and mixed with the public, call them, had a cup of tea, shoppers, if you want to call it that. local information, what is going on. now and i do not want to decry police community officers, nor powers, outdoing their books and things like that, it doesn't seem policemen with helmets walking around, showing

authority out there, being able to talk to people especially youngsters. talk to people especially youngsters-— talk to people especially ounusters. ~ , , ,., youngsters. absolutely, john, general secretary _ youngsters. absolutely, john, general secretary of - youngsters. absolutely, john, general secretary of the - youngsters. absolutely, john, general secretary of the uk i youngsters. absolutely, john, i general secretary of the uk lives in ely and you were tweeting all right. are you hear me? are you there? very quickly, we only have a couple of minutes, i read one of your tweets out to the police and crime commissioner out to the police and crime commi55ionerfor out to the police and crime commissioner for south wales alun michael and he was pretty angry because he thinks people like you tweeting or ramping up the situation of not doing any good and are part of not doing any good and are part of the problem?— of not doing any good and are part of the problem? completely untrue. i wast int of the problem? completely untrue. i was trying to — of the problem? completely untrue. i was trying to tell _ of the problem? completely untrue. i was trying to tell the _ of the problem? completely untrue. i was trying to tell the police, - of the problem? completely untrue. i was trying to tell the police, there i was trying to tell the police, there was trying to tell the police, there was a _ was trying to tell the police, there was a rumour going around they had killed _ was a rumour going around they had killed the _ was a rumour going around they had killed the kids and that is why the police _ killed the kids and that is why the police response was so heavy, none of the _ police response was so heavy, none of the officers listen to me, one of the officers — of the officers listen to me, one of the officers tried to pick a fight with me — the officers tried to pick a fight with me because i try to de—escalate

the situation and last night, there were _ the situation and last night, there were more — the situation and last night, there were more grumpy than helpful to everyone — were more grumpy than helpful to everyone. including the residents and i_ everyone. including the residents and i am — everyone. including the residents and i am not surprised things kicked off last _ and i am not surprised things kicked off last night because there was an expectation in the crowd because of the way— expectation in the crowd because of the way the police were handling things— the way the police were handling things there will be violence and as soon as— things there will be violence and as soon as that expectation exists or will people coming from outside ely, a large _ will people coming from outside ely, a large number of people came in from _ a large number of people came in from outside, as they did in 91 and at that— from outside, as they did in 91 and at that point you have lost control of the _ at that point you have lost control of the situation. the police lost control — of the situation. the police lost control, they had complete control ”p control, they had complete control up until— control, they had complete control up until about 9pm, all they needed to do— up until about 9pm, all they needed to do most— up until about 9pm, all they needed to do most to the soft stuff, they did not— to do most to the soft stuff, they did not do— to do most to the soft stuff, they did not do that correctly and the rat was — did not do that correctly and the rat was the result. anybody who carried _ rat was the result. anybody who carried out — rat was the result. anybody who carried out violence last night is responsible for their own actions and they— responsible for their own actions and they should accept responsibility. the police were in charge _ responsibility. the police were in charge of— responsibility. the police were in charge of the situation and protecting the public and i am sorry

but they— protecting the public and i am sorry but they failed.— but they failed. people have their views and a _ but they failed. people have their views and a betting _ but they failed. people have their views and a betting this _ but they failed. people have their views and a betting this morning. j views and a betting this morning. thanks so much, an interesting array of voices and thank you for your cause. loads of texts, always appreciated and we read them all. good morning, it is the nation's phone in. let's talk about vaping. a bbc investigation has found high levels of harmful metals in illegal vapes used by school children. the results showed children using them could be inhaling more than twice the daily safe amount of lead, and nine times the safe amount of nickel. the world health organization says high levels of lead exposure in children can affect the central nervous system and brain development. so let's talk about vaping in general.

they've exploded in popularity and have become a great tool in helping people to stop smoking. almost become a gateway drug into smoking. have they helped you? but the other side of the coin — they've also become a desirable thing for young people too — do your teenagers use them? have you tried to get them to stop? how worried are you? do vapes leave you fuming? get in touch. let's get the news. good morning. police have confirmed two teenagers died in a crash before a riot broke out in cardiff last night. the police and crime commissioner for south wales, alun michael, says they weren't being chased by officers at the time. cars were set on fire and paving slabs thrown at police during the riot in the ely area.

police investigating the disappearance of madeleine mccann are carrying out searches at a reservoir in portugal, around 30 miles from where she went missing in 2007. the area was visited by a formal suspect in the investigation, around the time the three—year—old disappeared. a bbc investigation has found that some vapes used by school pupils contain more than twice the safe amount of lead and nine times the safe levels for nickel. most of the products were illegal and had not been registered with regulators. the actor ray stevenson — who appeared in major tv shows such as rome, vikings and dexter — has died aged 58. he also starred in films such as thor and king arthur.

let's talk about vaping. we have the director—general of the vaping association. good morning, how are you doing? association. good morning, how are ou doint? ., association. good morning, how are you doing?— you doing? good morning, how are ou? you you doing? good morning, how are you? you ran _ you doing? good morning, how are you? you ran the _ you doing? good morning, how are you? you ran the tests _ you doing? good morning, how are you? you ran the tests on - you doing? good morning, how are you? you ran the tests on these i you? you ran the tests on these illeual you? you ran the tests on these illegalvapours, _ you? you ran the tests on these illegalvapours, david, - you? you ran the tests on these illegalvapours, david, hello- you? you ran the tests on these illegalvapours, david, hello to, j illegalvapours, david, hello to, what did you find?— illegalvapours, david, hello to, what did you find? yes, we were sent 18 roducts what did you find? yes, we were sent 18 products which _ what did you find? yes, we were sent 18 products which had _ what did you find? yes, we were sent 18 products which had been _ 18 products which had been confiscated from schoolchildren for analysis. what we did was look for things like heavy metals and some of the thermal breakdowns and carcinogenic compounds found in cigarettes as well. interestingly, most of the products sent to us were illegal, so this is not a representative of the legal vaping market in the uk. but in two brands, we found high levels of nickel, chromium and lead. the schoolchildren, their brains are developing and lead accumulates and can impact on the iq of children

quite heavily. can impact on the iq of children quite heavily-— quite heavily. why is there this a- etite quite heavily. why is there this appetite for — quite heavily. why is there this appetite for illegal _ quite heavily. why is there this appetite for illegal vapours? i quite heavily. why is there this i appetite for illegal vapours? would be a aood appetite for illegal vapours? would be a good question _ appetite for illegal vapours? would be a good question to _ appetite for illegal vapours? would be a good question to ask- appetite for illegal vapours? would be a good question to ask john. i be a good question to askjohn. possibly around the way the products are presented, bright colours, names which are familiar with children, from cartoons or with sweets in the shops. these projects are very much focused on children, more so than adults. not the kind of things adults. not the kind of things adults might be attracted to. john dunn, director—general of the uk vaping industry association. the problem is, all the apes, will be tarred, excuse the pun, with the same brush?— tarred, excuse the pun, with the same brush? this is something we have highlighted _ same brush? this is something we have highlighted to _ same brush? this is something we have highlighted to the _ same brush? this is something we l have highlighted to the government for a long _ have highlighted to the government for a long time. david's test results _ for a long time. david's test results will help the cause. part of the problem is these products are getting _ the problem is these products are getting into the country because very little action is being taken to

stop them — very little action is being taken to stop them. the second thing as well, they don't— stop them. the second thing as well, they don't look at product design, what _ they don't look at product design, what it— they don't look at product design, what it looks like other packaging it comes — what it looks like other packaging it comes in. which we think is something _ it comes in. which we think is something that is letting us down. 0ne something that is letting us down. one of— something that is letting us down. one of the — something that is letting us down. one of the things we have called for from the _ one of the things we have called for from the government, we cannot understand why they are not doing it, understand why they are not doing it. we _ understand why they are not doing it. we want— understand why they are not doing it, we want to see finds increase to at least _ it, we want to see finds increase to at least £10,000 to those distributors and retailers selling these _ distributors and retailers selling these products to minors. we had a story— these products to minors. we had a story last _ these products to minors. we had a story last week of a retailer find £26 for— story last week of a retailer find £26 for selling these devices to a minor. _ £26 for selling these devices to a minor, which we think is absolutely ridiculous — minor, which we think is absolutely ridiculous. secondly, we want to see addressed. _ ridiculous. secondly, we want to see addressed, we want to see all distributors and retailers of eight products— distributors and retailers of eight products license. part of the licence — products license. part of the licence has to include robust age verification processes being put in place _ verification processes being put in place it— verification processes being put in lace. . . �* verification processes being put in

lace. , , �* ., , , place. it 'ust isn't happening. the thin is, place. itjust isn't happening. the thing is. and _ place. itjust isn't happening. the thing is, and the _ place. itjust isn't happening. the thing is, and the question - place. itjust isn't happening. the thing is, and the question we're i thing is, and the question we're asking, do vapours leave you feeling? they are a proven way stopping smoking, getting away from one of the dreaded weed. i used to be a smoker myself, i know how difficult it is to give up and one of the most difficult drugs to shake off. there is no doubt we should allow vapours to help people quit smoking cigarettes, although other countries disagree with that. it has become so socially acceptable, younger generations and a comment from you and that, david? tttfhat younger generations and a comment from you and that, david?— from you and that, david? what we have seen recently, _ from you and that, david? what we have seen recently, over _ from you and that, david? what we have seen recently, over the i from you and that, david? what we have seen recently, over the past i from you and that, david? what we | have seen recently, over the past 12 months or so is a huge shift in the products available on the uk market. wind back 12 months ago you didn't see these bright coloured devices. we have seen a huge shift in the type of products available on the market. there is no doubt these products are the ones the youths are

using most frequently. there are a huge amount of products on the market which are legitimately present which are aimed towards aduu present which are aimed towards adult smokers and they hold the most potential benefit to the population. anyone switching from smoking should be encouraged to do so, because it is harmful. but it is these new products which are packaged in a different way and different flavours which are not focused on adults, which are not focused on adults, which is for younger people moving towards vaping. we have seen a decline in children taking up smoking, but the concern among the legitimate vape is industry, they don't want to see children using vape products. tt don't want to see children using vape products-— don't want to see children using vae roducts. ., , ., vape products. it has become a thing in and of itself, _ vape products. it has become a thing in and of itself, an _ vape products. it has become a thing in and of itself, an intrinsic— vape products. it has become a thing in and of itself, an intrinsic part i in and of itself, an intrinsic part of youth culture. people who have never smoked are now vaping and then very possibly, smoking, john dunn?

if you take a close look at the numbers _ if you take a close look at the numbers from action for smoking, there _ numbers from action for smoking, there has— numbers from action for smoking, there has been an increase in trial of these _ there has been an increase in trial of these products. the actual uptakes _ of these products. the actual uptakes of youths on these products on a regular basis, he didn't previously smoke is still relatively low. previously smoke is still relatively low it _ previously smoke is still relatively low it isn't— previously smoke is still relatively low. it isn't the first time we have seen _ low. it isn't the first time we have seen this— low. it isn't the first time we have seen this bike. we have seen it in the same — seen this bike. we have seen it in the same levels over the last six or seven— the same levels over the last six or seven years — the same levels over the last six or seven years. i agree with david, these _ seven years. i agree with david, these new— seven years. i agree with david, these new generation of devices, because — these new generation of devices, because there is very little control in place _ because there is very little control in place around the products is fuelling — in place around the products is fuelling this issue. i think also what _ fuelling this issue. i think also what is — fuelling this issue. i think also what is feeding into this is the use of social— what is feeding into this is the use of social media, which technically isn't allowed in this country unless you are _ isn't allowed in this country unless you are providing factual information on the product. we see that being — information on the product. we see that being abused, not only by some manufacturers, but also by individuals themselves. there is very little — individuals themselves. there is very little action being taken by social— very little action being taken by social media challenge channels to

regulate _ social media challenge channels to regulate themselves. we social media challenge channels to regulate themselves.— social media challenge channels to regulate themselves. we will bring in sarah. good _ regulate themselves. we will bring in sarah. good morning, _ regulate themselves. we will bring in sarah. good morning, sarah. i regulate themselves. we will bring l in sarah. good morning, sarah. and peter on the wirral. and a survey recently showed a proportion of 11 to 17—year—olds trying vaping in the uk soared to 50%, that is 11 to 17—year—olds, 50% trying it. by the 17—year—old5, 50% trying it. by the age of 18, 40% of children in the uk have tried e cigarettes. what do you think, sarah? t have tried e cigarettes. what do you think. sarah?— think, sarah? i am not exactly surprised- _ think, sarah? i am not exactly surprised. where _ think, sarah? i am not exactly surprised. where i _ think, sarah? i am not exactly surprised. where i live - think, sarah? i am not exactly surprised. where i live there i think, sarah? i am not exactly| surprised. where i live there is that— surprised. where i live there is that many— surprised. where i live there is that many of— surprised. where i live there is that many of eight _ surprised. where i live there is that many of eight shops - surprised. where i live there is that many of eight shops and i | surprised. where i live there is i that many of eight shops and i have seen so _ that many of eight shops and i have seen so many— that many of eight shops and i have seen so many kids, _ that many of eight shops and i have seen so many kids, we _ that many of eight shops and i have seen so many kids, we are - that many of eight shops and i have seen so many kids, we are talking i seen so many kids, we are talking about— seen so many kids, we are talking about it _ seen so many kids, we are talking about it and — seen so many kids, we are talking about 11 and senior— seen so many kids, we are talking about 11 and senior school - seen so many kids, we are talking about 11 and senior school age i seen so many kids, we are talkingl about 11 and senior school age who are going — about 11 and senior school age who are going round _ about 11 and senior school age who are going round with— about 11 and senior school age who are going round with a _ about 11 and senior school age who are going round with a brightly- are going round with a brightly coloured — are going round with a brightly coloured robo— are going round with a brightly coloured robo ciggy_ are going round with a brightly coloured robo ciggy in - are going round with a brightly coloured robo ciggy in their i are going round with a brightly- coloured robo ciggy in their mouth, with all— coloured robo ciggy in their mouth, with all kinds — coloured robo ciggy in their mouth, with all kinds of— coloured robo ciggy in their mouth, with all kinds of smells _ coloured robo ciggy in their mouth, with all kinds of smells coming i coloured robo ciggy in their mouth, with all kinds of smells coming outi with all kinds of smells coming out of it _

with all kinds of smells coming out of it bubble — with all kinds of smells coming out of it. bubble gum? _ with all kinds of smells coming out of it. bubble gum? cream - with all kinds of smells coming out of it. bubble gum? cream soda, i of it. bubble gum? cream soda, whatever— of it. bubble gum? cream soda, whatever flavour, _ of it. bubble gum? cream soda, whatever flavour, take - of it. bubble gum? cream soda, whatever flavour, take your- of it. bubble gum? cream soda, i whatever flavour, take your pick. they— whatever flavour, take your pick. they are — whatever flavour, take your pick. they are smoking _ whatever flavour, take your pick. they are smoking and _ whatever flavour, take your pick. they are smoking and thinking i whatever flavour, take your pick. i they are smoking and thinking it's not doing — they are smoking and thinking it's not doing them _ they are smoking and thinking it's not doing them any— they are smoking and thinking it's not doing them any harm - they are smoking and thinking it's not doing them any harm because| they are smoking and thinking it's i not doing them any harm because they have seen— not doing them any harm because they have seen it _ not doing them any harm because they have seen it on — not doing them any harm because they have seen it on social— not doing them any harm because they have seen it on social media _ not doing them any harm because they have seen it on social media and - have seen it on social media and everybody — have seen it on social media and everybody else _ have seen it on social media and everybody else is _ have seen it on social media and everybody else is doing - have seen it on social media and everybody else is doing it, - have seen it on social media and everybody else is doing it, so. have seen it on social media and everybody else is doing it, so ii have seen it on social media and i everybody else is doing it, so i am doing _ everybody else is doing it, so i am doing it _ everybody else is doing it, so i am doing it i— everybody else is doing it, so i am doing it i know— everybody else is doing it, so i am doing it. i know kids— everybody else is doing it, so i am doing it. i know kids can _ everybody else is doing it, so i am doing it. i know kids can follow i everybody else is doing it, so i am| doing it. i know kids can follow the leader. _ doing it. i know kids can follow the leader. but— doing it. i know kids can follow the leader, but this _ doing it. i know kids can follow the leader, but this is _ doing it. i know kids can follow the leader, but this is just _ doing it. i know kids can follow the leader, but this isjust ridiculous. i leader, but this isjust ridiculous. the stuff— leader, but this isjust ridiculous. the stuff that — leader, but this isjust ridiculous. the stuff that is _ leader, but this isjust ridiculous. the stuff that is in— leader, but this isjust ridiculous. the stuff that is in these - the stuff that is in these e—cigarettes, _ the stuff that is in these e—cigarettes, there i the stuff that is in these e—cigarettes, there is i the stuff that is in these - e—cigarettes, there is solvents. this— e—cigarettes, there is solvents. this is— e—cigarettes, there is solvents. this is the _ e—cigarettes, there is solvents. this is the stuff... _ e—cigarettes, there is solvents. this is the stuff... i— e—cigarettes, there is solvents. this is the stuff... i used - e—cigarettes, there is solvents. this is the stuff... i used to- e—cigarettes, there is solvents. i this is the stuff... i used to work in laboratories... _ this is the stuff. .. i used to work in laboratories...— this is the stuff... i used to work in laboratories... they are not as bad as smoking, _ in laboratories... they are not as bad as smoking, are _ in laboratories... they are not as bad as smoking, are they? i in laboratories. .. they are not as bad as smoking, are they? if- in laboratories... they are not as i bad as smoking, are they? if anyone bothers to look _ bad as smoking, are they? if anyone bothers to look at _ bad as smoking, are they? if anyone bothers to look at the _ bad as smoking, are they? if anyone bothers to look at the solvent i bad as smoking, are they? if anyone bothers to look at the solvent the i bothers to look at the solvent the stuff is _ bothers to look at the solvent the stuff is dissolved _ bothers to look at the solvent the stuff is dissolved in _ bothers to look at the solvent the stuff is dissolved in and _ bothers to look at the solvent the stuff is dissolved in and the - bothers to look at the solvent the stuff is dissolved in and the fact i stuff is dissolved in and the fact not all— stuff is dissolved in and the fact not all of— stuff is dissolved in and the fact not all of them _ stuff is dissolved in and the fact not all of them are, _ stuff is dissolved in and the fact not all of them are, shall- stuff is dissolved in and the fact not all of them are, shall we i stuff is dissolved in and the fact i not all of them are, shall we say, tightly— not all of them are, shall we say, tightly regulated _ not all of them are, shall we say, tightly regulated and _ not all of them are, shall we say, tightly regulated and coming i not all of them are, shall we say, tightly regulated and coming in. not all of them are, shall we say, i tightly regulated and coming in from china and _ tightly regulated and coming in from china and other— tightly regulated and coming in from china and other places, _ tightly regulated and coming in from china and other places, which- china and other places, which regulation _ china and other places, which regulation is _ china and other places, which regulation is nowhere - china and other places, which regulation is nowhere to- china and other places, which regulation is nowhere to be i china and other places, which. regulation is nowhere to be seen. you cannot— regulation is nowhere to be seen. you cannot sell— regulation is nowhere to be seen. you cannot sell them _ regulation is nowhere to be seen. you cannot sell them to - regulation is nowhere to be seen. you cannot sell them to minors, i you cannot sell them to minors, they are quite strict in china. but

you cannot sell them to minors, they are quite strict in china.— are quite strict in china. but when they export _ are quite strict in china. but when they export them, _ are quite strict in china. but when they export them, it _ are quite strict in china. but when they export them, it is _ are quite strict in china. but when they export them, it is a - are quite strict in china. but when they export them, it is a differentj they export them, it is a different ball game — they export them, it is a different ball game. people _ they export them, it is a different ball game. people buy— they export them, it is a different ball game. people buy them i they export them, it is a different ball game. people buy them on. they export them, it is a different i ball game. people buy them on the internet — ball game. people buy them on the internet... wakey, _ ball game. people buy them on the internet... wakey, wakey, - ball game. people buy them on the internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. . ball game. people buy them on the internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. iti internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the _ internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the stuff— internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the stuff that _ internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the stuff that is _ internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the stuff that is in _ internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the stuff that is in them, - internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the stuff that is in them, one - internet... wakey, wakey, nikki. it is the stuff that is in them, one ofi is the stuff that is in them, one of the stuft— is the stuff that is in them, one of the stuff in — is the stuff that is in them, one of the stuff in there _ is the stuff that is in them, one of the stuff in there is— is the stuff that is in them, one of| the stuff in there is formaldehyde. would _ the stuff in there is formaldehyde. would you — the stuff in there is formaldehyde. would you willingly— the stuff in there is formaldehyde. would you willingly put _ the stuff in there is formaldehyde. would you willingly put your - the stuff in there is formaldehyde. would you willingly put your nose i would you willingly put your nose over a _ would you willingly put your nose over a bottle _ would you willingly put your nose over a bottle of _ would you willingly put your nose over a bottle of formaldehyde - over a bottle of formaldehyde knowing — over a bottle of formaldehyde knowing it _ over a bottle of formaldehyde knowing it is_ over a bottle of formaldehyde knowing it is used _ over a bottle of formaldehyde knowing it is used in- over a bottle of formaldehyde . knowing it is used in embalming over a bottle of formaldehyde - knowing it is used in embalming and preserving _ knowing it is used in embalming and preserving tissue? _ knowing it is used in embalming and preserving tissue? no, _ knowing it is used in embalming and preserving tissue? no, you - knowing it is used in embalming and| preserving tissue? no, you wouldn't. the figures _ preserving tissue? no, you wouldn't. the figures have _ preserving tissue? no, you wouldn't. the figures have just _ preserving tissue? no, you wouldn't. the figures have just come _ preserving tissue? no, you wouldn't. the figures have just come out - preserving tissue? no, you wouldn't. the figures have just come out for. the figures have just come out for the heavy— the figures have just come out for the heavy metals, _ the figures have just come out for the heavy metals, they— the figures have just come out for the heavy metals, they are - the figures have just come out fori the heavy metals, they are through the heavy metals, they are through the root _ the heavy metals, they are through the roof. would _ the heavy metals, they are through the roof. would you _ the heavy metals, they are through the roof. would you want _ the heavy metals, they are through the roof. would you want your - the heavy metals, they are through| the roof. would you want your kids, would _ the roof. would you want your kids, would you _ the roof. would you want your kids, would you get — the roof. would you want your kids, would you get your _ the roof. would you want your kids, would you get your kids _ the roof. would you want your kids, would you get your kids to - the roof. would you want your kids, would you get your kids to sniff- would you get your kids to sniff old—fashioned _ would you get your kids to sniff old—fashioned exhaust- would you get your kids to sniff old—fashioned exhaust fumes l would you get your kids to sniff. old—fashioned exhaust fumes and breathe _ old—fashioned exhaust fumes and breathe the — old—fashioned exhaust fumes and breathe the lead _ old—fashioned exhaust fumes and breathe the lead in? _ old—fashioned exhaust fumes and breathe the lead in? the - old-fashioned exhaust fumes and breathe the lead in? the question this morning. _ breathe the lead in? the question this morning, does _ breathe the lead in? the question this morning, does vaping - breathe the lead in? the question this morning, does vaping make | breathe the lead in? the question i this morning, does vaping make you feel and i think sarah is saying a big yes to that. do feel and i think sarah is saying a big yes to that-— feel and i think sarah is saying a bi esto that. . ., ,, ., big yes to that. do you want to know wh ? i will big yes to that. do you want to know why? i will find _ big yes to that. do you want to know why? i will find out _ big yes to that. do you want to know why? i will find out why _ big yes to that. do you want to know why? i will find out why in _ big yes to that. do you want to know why? i will find out why in a - why? i will find out why in a minute. _ why? i will find out why in a minute. i — why? i will find out why in a minute, ijust _ why? i will find out why in a minute, i just want - why? i will find out why in a minute, i just want to - why? i will find out why in a minute, i just want to bring | why? i will find out why in a - minute, ijust want to bring some other voices on. you are in full flow and you can flow again. peter,

good morning. barry in battersea coming up as well. peter, you now have no idea what you're putting into your body? the have no idea what you're putting into your body?— have no idea what you're putting into your body? the chemicals that the initial base _ into your body? the chemicals that the initial base chemical, - into your body? the chemicals that the initial base chemical, the - the initial base chemical, the flavouring is dissolved in, a lot of the studies — flavouring is dissolved in, a lot of the studies so far have said... formaldehyde might be one of the products— formaldehyde might be one of the products that comes from when you vaporise _ products that comes from when you vaporise it. — products that comes from when you vaporise it, but the reason i phoned in it because — vaporise it, but the reason i phoned in it because i have been vaping for 'ust in it because i have been vaping for just over— in it because i have been vaping for just over it — in it because i have been vaping for just over 11 years. i found it great as a _ just over11 years. i found it great as a tool— just over 11 years. i found it great as a tool to — just over 11 years. i found it great as a tool to stop smoking and i have cut down— as a tool to stop smoking and i have cut down the amount of nicotine and it works _ cut down the amount of nicotine and it works great. but my concern is, before _ it works great. but my concern is, before vapes came along, the council put ashtrays on the tops of bins as a provision — put ashtrays on the tops of bins as a provision for disposing of cigarettes. now, we have

e—cigarettes and e—cigarettes cohtaih — e—cigarettes and e—cigarettes contain nickel batteries. typically, if you _ contain nickel batteries. typically, if you have — contain nickel batteries. typically, if you have a disposable e—cigarettes, you will probably throw— e—cigarettes, you will probably throw it — e—cigarettes, you will probably throw it in _ e—cigarettes, you will probably throw it in a bush or in the bin. sea _ throw it in a bush or in the bin. sea have — throw it in a bush or in the bin. sea have all— throw it in a bush or in the bin. sea have all of these batteries going — sea have all of these batteries going to — sea have all of these batteries going to landfill being disposed in 'ust going to landfill being disposed in just the _ going to landfill being disposed in just the local environment and there is no provision provided to dispose of them _ is no provision provided to dispose of them so— is no provision provided to dispose of them. so if you have heavy metals leaching _ of them. so if you have heavy metals leaching into the environment and you know. — leaching into the environment and you know, this isjust an unseen problem — you know, this isjust an unseen problem further down the line. people — problem further down the line. people will say, we should have done something _ people will say, we should have done something about disposing of the batteries. because if you have got a battery— batteries. because if you have got a battery now, you go to the battery bin battery now, you go to the battery bih or— battery now, you go to the battery bih or you — battery now, you go to the battery bin or you dispose of it somewhere. what _ bin or you dispose of it somewhere. what do _ bin or you dispose of it somewhere. what do you — bin or you dispose of it somewhere. what do you deal with these disposable e—cigarettes? not what do you deal with these disposable e-cigarettes? not been thou~ht disposable e-cigarettes? not been thought through. _ disposable e-cigarettes? not been thought through. people _ disposable e-cigarettes? not been thought through. people just - disposable e-cigarettes? not been| thought through. people just throw thought through. people 'ust throw them into the t thought through. people 'ust throw them into the bushes. _ thought through. people just throw them into the bushes. exactly, - thought through. people just throw them into the bushes. exactly, like them into the bushes. exactly, like the little canisters _ them into the bushes. exactly, like the little canisters you _ them into the bushes. exactly, like the little canisters you see - the little canisters you see everywhere that the so—called. .. barry in battersea, you are a

success story, gave up smoking, how long did you smoke? i am success story, gave up smoking, how long did you smoke?— long did you smoke? i am 73 at this moment in — long did you smoke? i am 73 at this moment in time. _ long did you smoke? i am 73 at this moment in time. as _ long did you smoke? i am 73 at this moment in time. as you _ long did you smoke? i am 73 at this moment in time. as you cannot - long did you smoke? i am 73 at this moment in time. as you cannot see j moment in time. as you cannot see me, i will tell you the truth. i used to smoke 50 cigarettes per day. and now for the last, i would say ia months, i have been vaping. to me, it works. because i have saved money and it's obvious to people out there, i am a pensioner and and it's obvious to people out there, lam a pensioner and i and it's obvious to people out there, i am a pensioner and i think it's great. absolutely. how much better do you — it's great. absolutely. how much better do you feel? _ it's great. absolutely. how much better do you feel? i _ it's great. absolutely. how much better do you feel? i will- it's great. absolutely. how much better do you feel? i will tell - it's great. absolutely. how much better do you feel? i will tell you the truth, _ better do you feel? i will tell you the truth, 473. — better do you feel? i will tell you the truth, 473, a _ better do you feel? i will tell you the truth, 473, a lot _ better do you feel? i will tell you the truth, 473, a lot of _ better do you feel? i will tell you the truth, 473, a lot of people i better do you feel? i will tell you | the truth, 473, a lot of people out the truth, a73, a lot of people out there are telling me don't you look

young. you only look about 50. —— 73. it is the gospel truth. to be honest, it makes my day. it makes my day. honest, it makes my day. it makes my da . ., . . , honest, it makes my day. it makes my da. ., . . , , day. you have made my day this morning- _ day. you have made my day this morning. more _ day. you have made my day this morning. more people _ day. you have made my day this morning. more people that - day. you have made my day this morning. more people that we l day. you have made my day this i morning. more people that we talk to, we will hear from morning. more people that we talk to, we will hearfrom mark morning. more people that we talk to, we will hear from mark and morning. more people that we talk to, we will hearfrom mark and sarah is going to flow again. we have got experts, get in touch. we have damien mcguinness to speak to, our correspondent in berlin. damian, germany's state prosecutor has just released a statement for this new search for madeleine mccann happening in southern portugal we have been hearing about, so damien, tell us more?— tell us more? yes, i have 'ust talked tell us more? yes, i have 'ust tetkee te fl tell us more? yes, i have 'ust talked to the i tell us more? yes, i have 'ust talked to the state i tell us more? yes, i havejust talked to the state prosecutor tell us more? yes, i havejust- talked to the state prosecutor again this morning just to confirm the details that they were giving out. he said the search that is going on right now in portugal, that

reservoir and the area around it is connected to allegations that the convicted sex offender serving a seven—year prison sentence right now in germany for a separate crime, that search is connected to this case. it is a big step because this is the first time in about a decade there has been a major search in portugal in connection with the madeline mccann disappearance and the state prosecutor told me they would be assisted by portuguese police officers and british officers. for legal reasons, portugal would also be helping. it is a german led investigation because it is the german state prosecutor who has been the driving force behind allegations that christian brueckner is alleged to be behind the disappearance of madeleine mccann. important to point out that christian brueckner denies any allegations, although he does accept other crimes he has committed

and been convicted for. i think the next stage is to see what comes out of the search, if anything and as soon as anything does come officials would hopefully confirm something with us. they are not going to give us any more information unless it is 100% confirmed. that is, because over the years, as you know, there have been so many false leads and conspiracy theories connected to this case. that is why here in germany they are incredibly cautious about handing out information and they will only do it once it is confirmed and it stands up to something definitive. it is confirmed and it stands up to something definitive. it is worth remindint something definitive. it is worth reminding people _ something definitive. it is worth reminding people that _ something definitive. it is worth reminding people that this - something definitive. it is worth - reminding people that this reservoir has been searched before. and there have been periods of drought as well, so why now and why this particular reservoir? because there are a number in the area, if anyone knows that part of portugal, reservoirs are quite frequent occurrences?— reservoirs are quite frequent

occurrences? , . �* , occurrences? yes, that's right. it has been searched _ occurrences? yes, that's right. it has been searched before. - occurrences? yes, that's right. it has been searched before. about occurrences? yes, that's right. it i has been searched before. about a year after madeleine mccann disappeared. that was sponsored privately by a portuguese lawyer who paid divers to go and search in this reservoir. but because that was a private so—called investigation, and because this particular lawyer has been described by some as a conspiracy theorist and condemned by the mccann family themselves, as someone who just wants to attract attention, we should definitely separate that previous search to this current search, which is an official german led investigation, with presumably some pretty hard evidence behind it. what that is, german officials will not say. i have asked them but they have said no information until they have something concrete to tell us. because it is an ongoing investigation they will not tell is why they have appointed this reservoir and what is going on behind it. only if they find something, that will be the point at

which we will find out. there have been reports of leaks of christian brueckner to this reservoir. he is reportedly spent a lot of time there and according to portuguese media, described it as his little paradise. there is an eyewitness report from a lorry driver many years ago, he said he saw, shortly after madeleine mccann's disappearance, a toddler being accompanied by someone who could well have taken that person. that was near the reservoir. but those are all reports and that is why we have to be so careful. at this stage in the investigation, anything connected to christian brueckner and the disappearance of madeleine mccann and this reservoir, the safest thing is to wait until we have official confirmed information. what we do know is the investigation is going ahead into this prime suspect and the fact that german police have ordered this search and are cooperating with portuguese and

british police, it is quite a major step, shows presumably they have something to go on. {lilia step, shows presumably they have something to go on.— step, shows presumably they have something to go on. ok, thank you very much. — something to go on. ok, thank you very much, damien _ something to go on. ok, thank you very much, damien mcguinness. i something to go on. ok, thank you| very much, damien mcguinness. so much false hope over the years and she would have been 20. it is 10.20 and we have sue in rotherham and sue in barry and mark in coalville. we have our experts as well. we talking about vaping and young people. do they make you fume? sue. goad they make you fume? sue. good mornint. they make you fume? sue. good morning. good _ they make you fume? sue. good morning. good morning - they make you fume? sue. good morning. good morning and - they make you fume? sue. good i morning. good morning and louise, lets tet morning. good morning and louise, lets get both _ morning. good morning and louise, lets get both of— morning. good morning and louise, lets get both of you _ morning. good morning and louise, lets get both of you on, _ morning. good morning and louise, lets get both of you on, you - morning. good morning and louise, lets get both of you on, you will- lets get both of you on, you will read about your kids, louise go first. louise isn't your real name, thatis first. louise isn't your real name, that is fine. what is happening? mt; that is fine. what is happening? ie’i 13—year—old is that is fine. what is happening? m1 13—year—old is vaping. i find that is fine. what is happening? m1: 13—year—old is vaping. i find them 13—year—old is vaping. ifind them all the time, i don't know how they get hold of them, what shops are

selling them. but she is vaping a lot. i am really worried and i am in the process of getting her an appointment at the doctor because i don't know what else to do, really. for the amount that she is smoking for her age. 13. for the amount that she is smoking for her age-— for her age. 13, latifi said to her about it? _ for her age. 13, latifi said to her about it? i _ for her age. 13, latifi said to her about it? i have _ for her age. 13, latifi said to her about it? i have sent _ for her age. 13, latifi said to her about it? i have sent her - for her age. 13, latifi said to her about it? i have sent her any - about it? i have sent her any information _ about it? i have sent her any information i _ about it? i have sent her any information i could _ about it? i have sent her any information i could find - about it? i have sent her any| information i could find online about the dangers. i have spoken to her about the risks. but she says that she needs them now. she needs them? she needs _ that she needs them now. she needs them? she needs them. _ that she needs them now. she needs them? she needs them. i— that she needs them now. she needs them? she needs them. i have - that she needs them now. she needs them? she needs them. i have had l that she needs them now. she needs i them? she needs them. i have had the education ringing _ them? she needs them. i have had the education ringing me _ them? she needs them. i have had the education ringing me and _ them? she needs them. i have had the education ringing me and said - them? she needs them. i have had the education ringing me and said she - them? she needs them. i have had the education ringing me and said she is i education ringing me and said she is playing up, whatever she is doing and they think it is because she is

having nicotine withdrawals. moira! having nicotine withdrawals. wow! and she is literally _ having nicotine withdrawals. wow! and she is literally only _ having nicotine withdrawals. wow! and she is literally onlyjust - having nicotine withdrawals. wow! and she is literally onlyjust 13. - and she is literally onlyjust13. don't go anywhere, sue in rotherham, come in here. i don't go anywhere, sue in rotherham, come in here-— come in here. i pretty much ditto everything _ come in here. i pretty much ditto everything that — come in here. i pretty much ditto everything that has _ come in here. i pretty much ditto everything that has already - come in here. i pretty much ditto everything that has already been | everything that has already been said, _ everything that has already been said, unfortunately. i have found vapes _ said, unfortunately. i have found vapes in — said, unfortunately. i have found vapes in my— said, unfortunately. i have found vapes in my son's bedroom from 12, he is _ vapes in my son's bedroom from 12, he is how— vapes in my son's bedroom from 12, he is how it — vapes in my son's bedroom from 12, he is now 14. originally i confiscated them and then got information, got leaflets from the doctor. _ information, got leaflets from the doctor, talk to him and things like that _ doctor, talk to him and things like that i_ doctor, talk to him and things like that i have — doctor, talk to him and things like that. i have seen his friend coming out of— that. i have seen his friend coming out of a _ that. i have seen his friend coming out of a local newspaper shop with vapes _ out of a local newspaper shop with vapes and — out of a local newspaper shop with vapes and hand them out around the groub _ vapes and hand them out around the groub i_ vapes and hand them out around the group. i have complained in that shop. _ group. i have complained in that shop. i— group. i have complained in that shop, i have complained to the compahy— shop, i have complained to the company that owns that shop. pretty much _ company that owns that shop. pretty much to— company that owns that shop. pretty much to be _ company that owns that shop. pretty much to be told, we are not the identity— much to be told, we are not the identity police. i have threatened to stop _ identity police. i have threatened to stop his— identity police. i have threatened to stop his pocket money and said i am not _ to stop his pocket money and said i am not giving you pocket money to buy that _ am not giving you pocket money to buy that rubbish. it seems like we

are in— buy that rubbish. it seems like we are in quicksand, it is a massive, massive — are in quicksand, it is a massive, massive huge problem and parents are at the _ massive huge problem and parents are at the end _ massive huge problem and parents are at the end of their tether in what on earth — at the end of their tether in what on earth to— at the end of their tether in what on earth to do. the other things i see every— on earth to do. the other things i see every day when i take my son to school _ see every day when i take my son to school in _ see every day when i take my son to school in the — see every day when i take my son to school in the morning, obviously a secondary— school in the morning, obviously a secondary school, staff outside the school _ secondary school, staff outside the school making sure the kids are behaving — school making sure the kids are behaving and they are vaping in front— behaving and they are vaping in front of— behaving and they are vaping in front of the staff. because until they step — front of the staff. because until they step onto the school property, they step onto the school property, the staff— they step onto the school property, the staff cannot do anything about it. the staff cannot do anything about it even _ the staff cannot do anything about it. even vaping at the school gate and there — it. even vaping at the school gate and there is a member of staff stood there. _ and there is a member of staff stood there. they— and there is a member of staff stood there, they cannot take it off them, they cannot — there, they cannot take it off them, they cannot confiscate them, they cannot _ they cannot confiscate them, they cannot put — they cannot confiscate them, they cannot put them in detention, they cannot— cannot put them in detention, they cannot do— cannot put them in detention, they cannot do anything unless they are on school— cannot do anything unless they are on school property. it's as if there is no _ on school property. it's as if there is no rules, — on school property. it's as if there is no rules, no boundaries. parents are at— is no rules, no boundaries. parents are at the _ is no rules, no boundaries. parents are at the end of their tether. | is no rules, no boundaries. parents are at the end of their tether. i am so concerned _ are at the end of their tether. i am so concerned with _ are at the end of their tether. i am so concerned with what _ are at the end of their tether. i —n so concerned with what you have said, louise, your 13—year—old daughter says she needs them. she needs them. _ daughter says she needs them. sue:

needs them, yes. daughter says she needs them. sie: needs them, yes. i daughter says she needs them. s“ie: needs them, yes. i have seen children in the school, on the school premises smoking the vapes, actually on the premises and nothing has been done.— has been done. your daughter, it would seem. _ has been done. your daughter, it would seem, is, _ has been done. your daughter, it would seem, is, as _ has been done. your daughter, it would seem, is, as you _ has been done. your daughter, it would seem, is, as you say - has been done. your daughter, it would seem, is, as you say it, i would seem, is, as you say it, addicted to nicotine? addicted, yes. do ou addicted to nicotine? addicted, yes. do you know — addicted to nicotine? addicted, yes. do you know how — addicted to nicotine? addicted, yes. do you know how many _ addicted to nicotine? addicted, yes. do you know how many time - addicted to nicotine? addicted, yes. do you know how many time she - addicted to nicotine? addicted, yes. do you know how many time she is l do you know how many time she is using them in a day? i do you know how many time she is using them in a day?— do you know how many time she is using them in a day? i know she has used a 600 — using them in a day? i know she has used a 600 puff _ using them in a day? i know she has used a 600 puff thing, _ using them in a day? i know she has used a 600 puff thing, whatever- using them in a day? i know she has| used a 600 puff thing, whatever they are, in one day. she used a 600 puff thing, whatever they are. in one day-— are, in one day. she has it when she wakes u- are, in one day. she has it when she wakes up in — are, in one day. she has it when she wakes up in the _ are, in one day. she has it when she wakes up in the morning? _ are, in one day. she has it when she wakes up in the morning? i - are, in one day. she has it when she l wakes up in the morning? i remember being addicted to nicotine and it was that first strike in the morning. was that first strike in the morning-— was that first strike in the morning. was that first strike in the mornint. _ i,�* ,, i, morning. possibly, i don't know. if ifind them. _ morning. possibly, i don't know. if ifind them. i— morning. possibly, i don't know. if i find them, i have _ morning. possibly, i don't know. if i find them, i have hunted - morning. possibly, i don't know. if i find them, i have hunted in - morning. possibly, i don't know. if i find them, i have hunted in her. ifind them, i have hunted in her bedroom regular. she i find them, i have hunted in her bedroom regular.— i find them, i have hunted in her bedroom regular. she wouldn't do it in front of you? _ bedroom regular. she wouldn't do it in front of you? she _ bedroom regular. she wouldn't do it in front of you? she wouldn't - bedroom regular. she wouldn't do it in front of you? she wouldn't do - bedroom regular. she wouldn't do it in front of you? she wouldn't do it l in front of you? she wouldn't do it in front of you? she wouldn't do it in front of— in front of you? she wouldn't do it in front of me, _ in front of you? she wouldn't do it in front of me, no. _ in front of you? she wouldn't do it in front of me, no. because - in front of you? she wouldn't do it in front of me, no. because i -

in front of you? she wouldn't do it | in front of me, no. because i would take it off her and put it in the bin. i have found them hidden all around. i, , i, bin. i have found them hidden all around. i, , . ,, bin. i have found them hidden all around. i, , i, , around. louise and sue, i tell you who has around. louise and sue, ! tell you who has got— around. louise and sue, i tell you who has got in — around. louise and sue, i tell you who has got in touch _ around. louise and sue, i tell you who has got in touch with - around. louise and sue, i tell you who has got in touch with us, - around. louise and sue, i tell you who has got in touch with us, we| who has got in touch with us, we have got mark in coalville who has beenin have got mark in coalville who has been in the vaping industry for many years. before we go any further, 600... hello, mark. good morning. good morning. 600... hello, mark. good morning. good morning-— 600... hello, mark. good morning. good morning. louise and sue might want to engage _ good morning. louise and sue might want to engage civilised _ want to engage civilised conversation. can you tell me what is a 600? it conversation. can you tell me what is a 600? . conversation. can you tell me what is a 600? , ~:: :: conversation. can you tell me what isa600? ,~:: :: , f, conversation. can you tell me what isa600? ,~:::: , ', is a 600? it is 600 puffs, you get approximately _ is a 600? it is 600 puffs, you get approximately 600 _ is a 600? it is 600 puffs, you get approximately 600 puffs - is a 600? it is 600 puffs, you get approximately 600 puffs out - is a 600? it is 600 puffs, you get approximately 600 puffs out of. is a 600? it is 600 puffs, you get. approximately 600 puffs out of the apparatus. — approximately 600 puffs out of the apparatus. which _ approximately 600 puffs out of the apparatus, which has _ approximately 600 puffs out of the apparatus, which has about - approximately 600 puffs out of the apparatus, which has about two - approximately 600 puffs out of the| apparatus, which has about two mg approximately 600 puffs out of the i apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine _ apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine in _ apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine in it — apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine in it. out _ apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine in it. out of— apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine in it. out of your— apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine in it. out of your 600 - apparatus, which has about two mg of nicotine in it. out of your 600 you i nicotine in it. out of your 600 you are getting — nicotine in it. out of your 600 you are getting two _ nicotine in it. out of your 600 you are getting two mg _ nicotine in it. out of your 600 you are getting two mg of— nicotine in it. out of your 600 you are getting two mg of nicotine. i. are getting two mg of nicotine. i say only. — are getting two mg of nicotine. i say only. nobody— are getting two mg of nicotine. i say only, nobody should - are getting two mg of nicotine. i say only, nobody should have i say only, nobody should have nicotine — say only, nobody should have nicotine because _ say only, nobody should have nicotine because it _ say only, nobody should have nicotine because it is - say only, nobody should have nicotine because it is highly. nicotine because it is highly addictive. _ nicotine because it is highly addictive-— addictive. how much is in a cigarette? _ addictive. how much is in a cigarette? some _ addictive. how much is in a cigarette? some of- addictive. how much is in a cigarette? some of them i addictive. how much is in a i cigarette? some of them very, addictive. how much is in a - cigarette? some of them very, some are 3.2 cigarette? some of them very, some are 3-2 mg. — cigarette? some of them very, some are 3-2 mg. some — cigarette? some of them very, some are 3.2 mg, some are _ cigarette? some of them very, some are 3.2 mg, some are six. _ cigarette? some of them very, some are 3.2 mg, some are six. if- cigarette? some of them very, some are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you i are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you look— are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you look on — are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you look on the _ are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you look on the site _ are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you look on the site of— are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you

look on the site of the _ are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you look on the site of the packet, i are 3.2 mg, some are six. if you look on the site of the packet, it will say— look on the site of the packet, it will say exactly _ look on the site of the packet, it will say exactly what _ look on the site of the packet, it will say exactly what the - look on the site of the packet, itj will say exactly what the content is. normally— will say exactly what the content is. normally about _ will say exactly what the content is. normally about 20 _ will say exactly what the content is. normally about 20 mg - will say exactly what the content is. normally about 20 mg in i will say exactly what the content is. normally about 20 mg in a i will say exactly what the content i is. normally about 20 mg in a full pack. _ is. normally about 20 mg in a full tack. . . is. normally about 20 mg in a full ack. , , ., , ., i, is. normally about 20 mg in a full ack. , , i, , i, i, pack. this is a 13-year-old, so the difference? _ pack. this is a 13-year-old, so the difference? l _ pack. this is a 13-year-old, so the difference? i wouldn't _ pack. this is a 13-year-old, so the difference? i wouldn't encourage i difference? i wouldn't encourage that whatsoever. _ difference? i wouldn't encourage that whatsoever. louise, - difference? i wouldn't encourage that whatsoever. louise, her- that whatsoever. louise, her daughter— that whatsoever. louise, her daughter needs _ that whatsoever. louise, her daughter needs the - that whatsoever. louise, herj daughter needs the nicotine, that whatsoever. louise, her- daughter needs the nicotine, she is addicted to nicotine, what would you say to louise to reassure her, that this is all under control? i say to louise to reassure her, that this is all under control?— this is all under control? i would sa that this is all under control? i would say that some — this is all under control? i would say that some vendors - this is all under control? i would say that some vendors are i this is all under control? i would l say that some vendors are selling them _ say that some vendors are selling them illegally. _ say that some vendors are selling them illegally, absolutely. - them illegally, absolutely. certainly _ them illegally, absolutely. certainly not _ them illegally, absolutely. certainly not in _ them illegally, absolutely. certainly not in my- them illegally, absolutely. i certainly not in my knowledge them illegally, absolutely. - certainly not in my knowledge of people _ certainly not in my knowledge of people that _ certainly not in my knowledge of people that have _ certainly not in my knowledge of people that have vape _ certainly not in my knowledge of people that have vape shops, i certainly not in my knowledge of i people that have vape shops, they are designated _ people that have vape shops, they are designated as _ people that have vape shops, they are designated as vape _ people that have vape shops, they are designated as vape shops. i people that have vape shops, theyj are designated as vape shops. you might— are designated as vape shops. you might get— are designated as vape shops. you might get corner _ are designated as vape shops. you might get corner shop _ are designated as vape shops. you might get corner shop to _ are designated as vape shops. you might get corner shop to sell- are designated as vape shops. youj might get corner shop to sell them on the _ might get corner shop to sell them on the side — might get corner shop to sell them on the side and _ might get corner shop to sell them on the side and will— might get corner shop to sell them on the side and will turn _ might get corner shop to sell them on the side and will turn a - might get corner shop to sell them on the side and will turn a blind i on the side and will turn a blind eye to — on the side and will turn a blind eye to people's— on the side and will turn a blind eye to people's age. _ on the side and will turn a blind eye to people's age. but - on the side and will turn a blind eye to people's age. but in i on the side and will turn a blind eye to people's age. but in the| eye to people's age. but in the industry. — eye to people's age. but in the industry. we _ eye to people's age. but in the industry, we know— eye to people's age. but in the industry, we know how- eye to people's age. but in the| industry, we know how harmful eye to people's age. but in the i industry, we know how harmful it eye to people's age. but in the - industry, we know how harmful it can be to _ industry, we know how harmful it can be to the _ industry, we know how harmful it can be to the industry— industry, we know how harmful it can be to the industry and _ industry, we know how harmful it can be to the industry and two _ industry, we know how harmful it can be to the industry and two children. i be to the industry and two children. one of— be to the industry and two children. one of my— be to the industry and two children. one of my first— be to the industry and two children. one of my first things _ be to the industry and two children. one of my first things with - be to the industry and two children. one of my first things with a - one of my first things with a customer. _ one of my first things with a customer, he _ one of my first things with a customer, he said _ one of my first things with a customer, he said my- one of my first things with a customer, he said my child. one of my first things with a i customer, he said my child keep stealing — customer, he said my child keep stealing my— customer, he said my child keep stealing my cigarettes _ customer, he said my child keep stealing my cigarettes out - customer, he said my child keep stealing my cigarettes out the i stealing my cigarettes out the packet — stealing my cigarettes out the packet whilst _ stealing my cigarettes out the packet whilst my— stealing my cigarettes out the

packet whilst my back - stealing my cigarettes out the packet whilst my back is i stealing my cigarettes out the. packet whilst my back is turned stealing my cigarettes out the - packet whilst my back is turned come out of— packet whilst my back is turned come out of my— packet whilst my back is turned come out of my handbag. _ packet whilst my back is turned come out of my handbag. they _ packet whilst my back is turned come out of my handbag. they wanted i out of my handbag. they wanted e-cigarettes _ out of my handbag. they wanted e—cigarettes and _ out of my handbag. they wanted e—cigarettes and go _ out of my handbag. they wanted e—cigarettes and go on _ out of my handbag. they wanted e—cigarettes and go on them, i out of my handbag. they wanted i e—cigarettes and go on them, because if they— e—cigarettes and go on them, because if they have _ e—cigarettes and go on them, because if they have that. _ e—cigarettes and go on them, because if they have that, they _ e—cigarettes and go on them, because if they have that, they are _ e—cigarettes and go on them, because if they have that, they are not - if they have that, they are not having — if they have that, they are not having the _ if they have that, they are not having the carcinogen - if they have that, they are not having the carcinogen in- if they have that, they are not having the carcinogen in a i having the carcinogen in a cigarette. _ having the carcinogen in a cigarette. '— having the carcinogen in a cigarette. i refuse - having the carcinogen in a cigarette. i refuse to i having the carcinogen in a cigarette. i refuse to selli having the carcinogen in ai cigarette. i refuse to sell it because _ cigarette. i refuse to sell it because once _ cigarette. i refuse to sell it because once she - cigarette. i refuse to sell itj because once she admitted cigarette. i refuse to sell it - because once she admitted that, and knew a _ because once she admitted that, and knew a child — because once she admitted that, and knew a child was _ because once she admitted that, and knew a child was going _ because once she admitted that, and knew a child was going to _ because once she admitted that, and knew a child was going to have - because once she admitted that, and knew a child was going to have it. i knew a child was going to have it. the packaging _ knew a child was going to have it. the packaging is_ knew a child was going to have it. the packaging is very _ knew a child was going to have it. the packaging is very colourful, . knew a child was going to have it. the packaging is very colourful, ii the packaging is very colourful, i agree _ the packaging is very colourful, i agree with — the packaging is very colourful, i agree with you _ the packaging is very colourful, i agree with you. there _ the packaging is very colourful, i agree with you. there is- the packaging is very colourful, i agree with you. there is many. agree with you. there is many differeht— agree with you. there is many different flavours. _ agree with you. there is many different flavours. tan - agree with you. there is many different flavours.— agree with you. there is many different flavours. can you believe that louise's _ different flavours. can you believe that louise's daughter _ different flavours. can you believe that louise's daughter is - different flavours. can you believe | that louise's daughter is addicted? absolutely, absolutely, yes. it is possible — absolutely, absolutely, yes. it is possible i— absolutely, absolutely, yes. it is possible. i have _ absolutely, absolutely, yes. it is possible. i have written - absolutely, absolutely, yes. it is possible. i have written a - absolutely, absolutely, yes. it is possible. i have written a white i possible. i have written a white paper— possible. i have written a white paper about _ possible. i have written a white paper about it _ possible. i have written a white paper about it about _ possible. i have written a white paper about it about the - possible. i have written a white i paper about it about the situation, marry— paper about it about the situation, many years— paper about it about the situation, many years ago _ paper about it about the situation, many years ago. because - paper about it about the situation, many years ago. because coming l paper about it about the situation, . many years ago. because coming off vapes _ many years ago. because coming off vapes startihg — many years ago. because coming off vapes starting smoking _ many years ago. because coming off vapes starting smoking again - vapes starting smoking again increases _ vapes starting smoking again increases your _ vapes starting smoking again increases your smoking. - vapes starting smoking again increases your smoking. i- vapes starting smoking again . increases your smoking. i come vapes starting smoking again - increases your smoking. i come off the vapes — increases your smoking. i come off the vapes and _ increases your smoking. i come off the vapes and started _ increases your smoking. i come off the vapes and started smoking - increases your smoking. i come off. the vapes and started smoking again. i the vapes and started smoking again. i used _ the vapes and started smoking again. i used to— the vapes and started smoking again. i used to smoke — the vapes and started smoking again. i used to smoke ten _ the vapes and started smoking again. i used to smoke ten flags _ the vapes and started smoking again. i used to smoke ten flags a _ the vapes and started smoking again. i used to smoke ten flags a day, - the vapes and started smoking again. i used to smoke ten flags a day, i- i used to smoke ten flags a day, i started _ i used to smoke ten flags a day, i started smoking _ i used to smoke ten flags a day, i started smoking 20 _ i used to smoke ten flags a day, i started smoking 20 flags - i used to smoke ten flags a day, i started smoking 20 flags a - i used to smoke ten flags a day, i started smoking 20 flags a day.

started smoking 20 flags a day because — started smoking 20 flags a day because i— started smoking 20 flags a day because i needed _ started smoking 20 flags a day because i needed constant- started smoking 20 flags a day- because i needed constant nicotine. i put because i needed constant nicotine. i put a _ because i needed constant nicotine. i put a programme _ because i needed constant nicotine. i put a programme in— because i needed constant nicotine. i put a programme in to— because i needed constant nicotine. i put a programme in to stop - because i needed constant nicotine. i put a programme in to stop me - because i needed constant nicotine. i i put a programme in to stop me and coming— i put a programme in to stop me and coming off— i put a programme in to stop me and coming off it — i put a programme in to stop me and coming off it i— i put a programme in to stop me and coming off it. i looked _ i put a programme in to stop me and coming off it. i looked at— i put a programme in to stop me and coming off it. i looked at ways - i put a programme in to stop me and coming off it. i looked at ways to - coming off it. i looked at ways to prevent — coming off it. i looked at ways to prevent me — coming off it. i looked at ways to prevent me smoking _ coming off it. i looked at ways to prevent me smoking and - coming off it. i looked at ways to prevent me smoking and i- coming off it. i looked at ways tol prevent me smoking and i started educating — prevent me smoking and i started educating my— prevent me smoking and i started educating my customers. - prevent me smoking and i started educating my customers. it - prevent me smoking and i started educating my customers. it is- prevent me smoking and i started| educating my customers. it is very positive _ educating my customers. it is very positive and — educating my customers. it is very positive and is— educating my customers. it is very positive and is successful - educating my customers. it is very positive and is successful in - educating my customers. it is very positive and is successful in the i positive and is successful in the way i _ positive and is successful in the way i was — positive and is successful in the way i was doing _ positive and is successful in the way i was doing it. _ positive and is successful in the way i was doing it. a _ positive and is successful in the way i was doing it. a lot- positive and is successful in the way i was doing it. a lot of- positive and is successful in the . way i was doing it. a lot of people come _ way i was doing it. a lot of people come off— way i was doing it. a lot of people come off cigarettes. _ way i was doing it. a lot of people come off cigarettes.— way i was doing it. a lot of people come off cigarettes. huge positives, no doubt. come off cigarettes. huge positives, no doubt- sanjav. — come off cigarettes. huge positives, no doubt. sanjay, hello. _ come off cigarettes. huge positives, no doubt. sanjay, hello. professor. no doubt. sanjay, hello. professor consultant in respiratory medicine. you hear louise and sue, louise remind sanjay of your situation, of your is—year—old and refresh our minds? your 13-year-old and refresh our minds? . your 13-year-old and refresh our minds? , . , minds? yes, 13, i have been finding vae minds? yes, 13, i have been finding va -e and minds? yes, 13, i have been finding vape and she _ minds? yes, 13, i have been finding vape and she has _ minds? yes, 13, i have been finding vape and she has at _ minds? yes, 13, i have been finding vape and she has at least _ minds? yes, 13, i have been finding vape and she has at least one - minds? yes, 13, i have been finding vape and she has at least one a - minds? yes, 13, i have been finding| vape and she has at least one a day, the 600 puffs a day. when i googled that it said it was the equivalent of smoking 50 cigarettes a day. so i don't know what is being said, but

when i have googled, it said 600 puffs is the equivalent of 50 cigarettes a day. she is 13. �*i3 cigarettes a day. she is 13. 13 years old. we have way better than professor google, we have sanjay. sanjay, speak to louise and sue. i sanjay, speak to louise and sue. i completely agree with their concerns and i completely agree with their concerns and i think— completely agree with their concerns and i think it— completely agree with their concerns and i think it is — completely agree with their concerns and i think it is a _ completely agree with their concerns and i think it is a terrible _ completely agree with their concerns and i think it is a terrible thing - and i think it is a terrible thing that— and i think it is a terrible thing that children, _ and i think it is a terrible thing that children, young _ and i think it is a terrible thing that children, young people i and i think it is a terrible thing l that children, young people are vaping — that children, young people are vaping vaping— that children, young people are vaping. vaping products - that children, young people are vaping. vaping products reallyi that children, young people are . vaping. vaping products really are only there — vaping. vaping products really are only there to _ vaping. vaping products really are only there to help _ vaping. vaping products really are only there to help people - vaping. vaping products really are only there to help people who - vaping. vaping products really are only there to help people who are| only there to help people who are current _ only there to help people who are current smokers— only there to help people who are current smokers to _ only there to help people who are current smokers to quit _ only there to help people who are current smokers to quit smoking. | current smokers to quit smoking. that is— current smokers to quit smoking. that is their— current smokers to quit smoking. that is their only— current smokers to quit smoking. that is their only place. - current smokers to quit smoking. that is their only place. also - current smokers to quit smoking. that is their only place. also to l that is their only place. also to help— that is their only place. also to help peopte _ that is their only place. also to help peopte who _ that is their only place. also to help people who have - that is their only place. also to help people who have quit- that is their only place. also to - help people who have quit smoking do not retapse _ help people who have quit smoking do not retapse back— help people who have quit smoking do not relapse back to _ help people who have quit smoking do not relapse back to smoking. - not relapse back to smoking. chitdren— not relapse back to smoking. children should _ not relapse back to smoking. children should not - not relapse back to smoking. children should not be - not relapse back to smoking. children should not be using| not relapse back to smoking. - children should not be using these products. — children should not be using these products. people _ children should not be using these products, people who _ children should not be using these products, people who have - children should not be using these products, people who have never. products, people who have never smoked — products, people who have never smoked should _ products, people who have never smoked should not— products, people who have never smoked should not be _ products, people who have never smoked should not be using - products, people who have neveri smoked should not be using these products — smoked should not be using these products and _ smoked should not be using these products and i_ smoked should not be using these products. and i think— smoked should not be using these products. and i think there - smoked should not be using these products. and i think there is- smoked should not be using these products. and i think there is a - products. and i think there is a whole — products. and i think there is a whole tot— products. and i think there is a whole tot of— products. and i think there is a whole lot of things _ products. and i think there is a whole lot of things that - products. and i think there is a whole lot of things that need . products. and i think there is al whole lot of things that need to products. and i think there is a - whole lot of things that need to be done, _ whole lot of things that need to be done, including— whole lot of things that need to be done, including the _ whole lot of things that need to be done, including the sale _ whole lot of things that need to be done, including the sale of- whole lot of things that need to be done, including the sale of illicit. done, including the sale of illicit vapes, _ done, including the sale of illicit vapes, which _ done, including the sale of illicit vapes, which is _ done, including the sale of illicit vapes, which is massive. - done, including the sale of illicit vapes, which is massive. we -

done, including the sale of illicit l vapes, which is massive. we need done, including the sale of illicit - vapes, which is massive. we need to do much, _ vapes, which is massive. we need to do much, much _ vapes, which is massive. we need to do much, much more _ vapes, which is massive. we need to do much, much more to— vapes, which is massive. we need to do much, much more to protect - vapes, which is massive. we need to do much, much more to protect ouri do much, much more to protect our children— do much, much more to protect our children from — do much, much more to protect our children from illicit _ do much, much more to protect our children from illicit vape _ do much, much more to protect our children from illicit vape market. i children from illicit vape market. to do— children from illicit vape market. to do that — children from illicit vape market. to do that there _ children from illicit vape market. to do that there needs _ children from illicit vape market. to do that there needs to - children from illicit vape market. to do that there needs to be - children from illicit vape market. to do that there needs to be a l children from illicit vape market. | to do that there needs to be a lot more _ to do that there needs to be a lot more investment— to do that there needs to be a lot more investment in— to do that there needs to be a lot more investment in councils - more investment in councils enforcement— more investment in councils enforcement teams- more investment in councils enforcement teams doing. more investment in councils - enforcement teams doing inspections of shops _ yis y is the message the market going? because bad people make a lot of monev~ _ because bad people make a lot of monev~ all— because bad people make a lot of money. all the _ because bad people make a lot of money. all the products- because bad people make a lot of money. all the products are - because bad people make a lot of| money. all the products are meant because bad people make a lot of- money. all the products are meant to be modified _ money. all the products are meant to be modified to — money. all the products are meant to be modified to the _ money. all the products are meant to be modified to the regulator- money. all the products are meant to be modified to the regulator and - be modified to the regulator and lots be modified to the regulator and tots of— be modified to the regulator and tots of bad — be modified to the regulator and lots of bad actors _ be modified to the regulator and lots of bad actors are _ be modified to the regulator and lots of bad actors are out - be modified to the regulator and lots of bad actors are out there i be modified to the regulator and i lots of bad actors are out there who will not _ lots of bad actors are out there who will not do — lots of bad actors are out there who will not do that. _ lots of bad actors are out there who will not do that. they— lots of bad actors are out there who will not do that. they sell— lots of bad actors are out there who will not do that. they sell these - will not do that. they sell these itticit _ will not do that. they sell these illicit products _ will not do that. they sell these illicit products and _ will not do that. they sell these illicit products and the - will not do that. they sell these i illicit products and the components of the _ illicit products and the components of the illicit — illicit products and the components of the illicit products _ illicit products and the components of the illicit products are _ illicit products and the components of the illicit products are not - of the illicit products are not known — of the illicit products are not known because _ of the illicit products are not known because they - of the illicit products are not known because they are - of the illicit products are not known because they are not| of the illicit products are not _ known because they are not monitored or measured — known because they are not monitored or measured and _ known because they are not monitored or measured. and i— known because they are not monitored or measured. and i think— known because they are not monitored or measured. and i think you've - or measured. and i think you've heard _ or measured. and i think you've heard on— or measured. and i think you've heard on other— or measured. and i think you've

heard on other reports - or measured. and i think you've heard on other reports today. or measured. and i think you've. heard on other reports today how labs heard on other reports today how tabs have — heard on other reports today how labs have tested _ heard on other reports today how labs have tested these _ heard on other reports today how labs have tested these products i heard on other reports today how i labs have tested these products and found _ labs have tested these products and found high— labs have tested these products and found high levels _ labs have tested these products and found high levels of— labs have tested these products and found high levels of lead _ labs have tested these products and found high levels of lead and - found high levels of lead and chromium _ found high levels of lead and chromium and _ found high levels of lead and chromium and nickel- found high levels of lead and chromium and nickel and - found high levels of lead and . chromium and nickel and other found high levels of lead and - chromium and nickel and other heavy metals _ chromium and nickel and other heavy metals as— chromium and nickel and other heavy metals as wett— chromium and nickel and other heavy metals. as well as _ chromium and nickel and other heavy metals. as well as the _ chromium and nickel and other heavy metals. as well as the issue - chromium and nickel and other heavy metals. as well as the issue of- chromium and nickel and other heavy metals. as well as the issue of the i metals. as well as the issue of the nicotine _ metals. as well as the issue of the nicotine itself— metals. as well as the issue of the nicotine itself which _ metals. as well as the issue of the nicotine itself which is _ metals. as well as the issue of the nicotine itself which is addicting, l nicotine itself which is addicting, ithink— nicotine itself which is addicting, i think louise _ nicotine itself which is addicting, i think louise said _ nicotine itself which is addicting, i think louise said it— nicotine itself which is addicting, i think louise said it was- nicotine itself which is addicting, i think louise said it was her- i think louise said it was her b-vear-otd _ i think louise said it was her 13—year—old daughter- i think louise said it was her 13—year—old daughter so - i think louise said it was her 13—year—old daughter so alli i think louise said it was her. 13—year—old daughter so all in i think louise said it was her- 13—year—old daughter so all in all it is a _ 13—year—old daughter so all in all it is a terrible _ 13—year—old daughter so all in all it is a terrible thing. _ 13—year—old daughter so all in all it is a terrible thing. the - 13—year—old daughter so all in all it is a terrible thing. the illicit. it is a terrible thing. the illicit market— it is a terrible thing. the illicit market and _ it is a terrible thing. the illicit market and the _ it is a terrible thing. the illicit market and the vendors - it is a terrible thing. the illiciti market and the vendors selling it is a terrible thing. the illicit- market and the vendors selling these products— market and the vendors selling these products to _ market and the vendors selling these products to children, _ market and the vendors selling these products to children, it _ market and the vendors selling these products to children, it is _ market and the vendors selling these products to children, it is illegal- products to children, it is illegal to sett— products to children, it is illegal to sell products _ products to children, it is illegal to sell products to _ products to children, it is illegal to sell products to people - products to children, it is illegal to sell products to people who i products to children, it is illegal. to sell products to people who are under— to sell products to people who are under the — to sell products to people who are under the age _ to sell products to people who are under the age of— to sell products to people who are under the age of 18— to sell products to people who are under the age of 18 so— to sell products to people who are under the age of 18 so a _ to sell products to people who are under the age of 18 so a number. to sell products to people who are | under the age of 18 so a number of things— under the age of 18 so a number of things can— under the age of 18 so a number of things can be— under the age of 18 so a number of things can be done, _ under the age of 18 so a number of things can be done, age _ things can be done, age verification, _ things can be done, age verification, better- things can be done, age - verification, better enforcement through— verification, better enforcement through local _ verification, better enforcement through local government - verification, better enforcement through local government that i verification, better enforcement . through local government that the services _ through local government that the services are — through local government that the services are being _ through local government that the services are being cut _ through local government that the services are being cut back- through local government that the services are being cut back four. services are being cut back four years _ services are being cut back four years and — services are being cut back four years and years _ services are being cut back four years and years— years and years. this is what happens _ years and years. this is what happens. here's _ years and years. this is what happens. here's a _ years and years. this is what happens. here's a couple - years and years. this is what happens. here's a couple of| years and years. this is what - happens. here's a couple of things. the third thing is the packaging of these _ the third thing is the packaging of these products. _ the third thing is the packaging of these products. packaged - the third thing is the packaging of these products. packaged in- the third thing is the packaging of| these products. packaged in bright cotours, _ these products. packaged in bright

cotours, given— these products. packaged in bright colours, given names _ these products. packaged in bright colours, given names like - these products. packaged in bright colours, given names like a - these products. packaged in bright colours, given names like a bear, i colours, given names like a bear, they— colours, given names like a bear, they have — colours, given names like a bear, they have cartoon _ colours, given names like a bear, they have cartoon characters - colours, given names like a bear, they have cartoon characters and | they have cartoon characters and essentially— they have cartoon characters and essentially developing _ they have cartoon characters and essentially developing market i they have cartoon characters and essentially developing market is| essentially developing market is using _ essentially developing market is using the — essentially developing market is using the playbook _ essentially developing market is using the playbook of _ essentially developing market is using the playbook of the - essentially developing market is. using the playbook of the tobacco industry— using the playbook of the tobacco industry with— using the playbook of the tobacco industry with attracting _ using the playbook of the tobacco industry with attracting kids - using the playbook of the tobacco industry with attracting kids and i industry with attracting kids and young _ industry with attracting kids and young people _ industry with attracting kids and young purple-— industry with attracting kids and young people. alcopops as well. there's a couple _ young people. alcopops as well. there's a couple of— young people. alcopops as well. there's a couple of things - young people. alcopops as well. there's a couple of things in - young people. alcopops as well. i there's a couple of things in china, massive role in manufacturing of apes in the first place. —— vapes. china has banned the use of fruit testing vapes most likely as you say used by younger generations because the fear of children coming to harm, maybe a bit of a paradox? the australian government, this was a headline grabbing move, wasn't it? effectively banning vaping products unless given on prescription and they have introduced quality standards restricting flavours and other ingredients. what about the

latter, but the australian government has done? pretty radical, would make a lot of people pretty angry but should it be something quickly that we should consider? i think they should be more regulation and restriction, whether we go as far as australia is another matter because we have 6 million people in this country who smoke and the majority of the use of vapes to stop smoking so there is a danger that you penalise people who are generally trying to stop smoking using vapes if you make them such that they are difficult to get hold of. one of the successes of them have been that you can get them from the shop across the road whereas if you ban them entirely and make them prescription only there is a danger you encourage people to carry on smoking and remember one of the things encouraging children to smoke as if they see their parents smoke so there is a danger if you have more adults that smoke, the more

kids take up smoking which is more harmful because cigarettes have thousands and thousands of carcinogens, movementand thousands and thousands of carcinogens, movement and that for over 60 years, the damage smoking can do so we want to make sure the regulations to prevent kids from using vapes are available to adults crying to quit smoking. more using vapes are available to adults crying to quit smoking.— crying to quit smoking. more to come, crying to quit smoking. more to come. dear _ crying to quit smoking. more to come, dear vapes _ crying to quit smoking. more to come, dear vapes you - crying to quit smoking. more to come, dear vapes you feeling? | crying to quit smoking. more to l come, dear vapes you feeling? it crying to quit smoking. more to - come, dear vapes you feeling? it is 10:34am. now time for the new swiss nick. good morning. two teenage boys died in a crash before a riot broke out in cardiff last night, in which left several police officers were injured. cars were set on fire and objects thrown at police in ely. police rejected social media rumours they were involved in the crash, saying officers arrived at the scene afterwards. concerns are being raised about the safety of illegal vapes being used by some children.

devices confiscated from pupils at a school kidderminster were found to have high levels of lead and nickel. new searches are under way in portugal as part of the investigation into the disappearance of madeleine mccann. police divers entered the water which is about 30 miles from praia da luz where madeleine went missing in 2007. prince harry has lost a bid to make further payments towards police protection. lawyers want to judicial review of the decision after his security arrangements changed after he stopped being a working well but a judge has ruled not to give the go—ahead for a hearing. a judge has ruled not to give the go—ahead fora hearing. —— a judge has ruled not to give the go—ahead for a hearing. —— working well. the rate at which food prices are rising has fallen for the second month in row, according to research firm kantar. but it says costs remain "incredibly high", up by more than 17% compared to last year. sport now with katie smith. starting with cricket — england seamer ollie robinson has been given the all clear to play after a scan yesterday revealed no damage to his left ankle — he pulled up playing for sussex last week and was on crutches at one point — robinson will nowjoin up

with the england squad this weekend ahead of the test match against ireland starting onjune 1st at lord's. it's the final warm up opportunity before the ashes two weeks later. newcastle manager eddie howe says his side will look to recruit wisely this summer as the club gets ready to play champions league football for the first time in 20yrs. they secured top four this season with a point at home in their goalless draw with leciester — whose pl survivial is now out of their hands, they must win in their final game against west ham and hope other results are favourable. and the denver nuggets have reached the nba finals for the first time in their history after completing a 4—0 western conference championship sweep over the la lakers. they'll face either the miami heat or boston celtics in the finals from june 1st.

vapes, do you take it out of your pocket, give it a quick blast, are you a habitual vapour. we've heard from a gentleman who smoked 50 a day, everyone said... yellow ten years younger all of a sudden. their skin is better and all of that, the breathing is better but it is not a zero—sum game, a gateway drug for many people who take up smoking, it

is not the idea, it has morphed into anything that is part of youth culture and there are these illegal vapes that are pretty dangerous. some say the science is still in the early stages, sanjay is with us. and a professor and consultant in respiratory medicine and claire is a consultant in respiratory medicine. catherine and geoffjoin us as callers. where are we with this, claire? i callers. where are we with this, claire? ~ ., ., claire? i think we are in quite a dangerous _ claire? i think we are in quite a dangerous situation _ claire? i think we are in quite a dangerous situation with - claire? i think we are in quite a dangerous situation with kids i dangerous situation with kids because they are using it in an entirely different way to the hoped—for prescribed use of cigarettes to get people away from cigarettes. and they are really

using it as an entry level, it is much easier to use covertly. and they are fun, kind of cool. and they are probably more pleasant to take up are probably more pleasant to take up than smoking when you first start smoking which i'm sure we have all tried as teenagers. the smoking which i'm sure we have all tried as teenagers.— tried as teenagers. the initial thin . tried as teenagers. the initial thing is- -- — tried as teenagers. the initial thing is... and _ tried as teenagers. the initial thing is... and then - tried as teenagers. the initial thing is... and then it - tried as teenagers. the initial thing is... and then it does . tried as teenagers. the initial. thing is... and then it does not last for that long. thing is. .. and then it does not last for that long.— thing is... and then it does not last for that long. exactly and then ou have last for that long. exactly and then you have mango — last for that long. exactly and then you have mango and _ last for that long. exactly and then you have mango and peach - last for that long. exactly and then you have mango and peach flavourj last for that long. exactly and then - you have mango and peach flavour and all of these cool looking devices to compare with your mates then vaping becomes a huge part of social culture amongst teenagers. and i think what people do not really understand let me put it in a different way, what teenagers were listening to the marketing around e cigarettes is a safer alternative. so not only was it nicer, it was cool but very accessible, we have to

be 18 to get hold of vapes. but actually they had it in the back of the head this might be a super alternative which is highly dangerous because it is not safe and the nicotine addiction is very quick because you are getting very high levels of nicotine compared to what you might be able to achieve through smoking as a teenager you have to find somewhere people will not smell it and you have to be much more covert. you can very quietly in scope without anyone knowing. your line of work — scope without anyone knowing. your line of work as _ scope without anyone knowing. your line of work as a _ scope without anyone knowing. your line of work as a paediatric respiratory doctor you can understand what the messaging was mixed because all of a sudden it was like this silver bullet, people giving up smoking and ok it had its dangerous but nothing is danger free in life, just trying to think of anything else! that was the big message, wasn't it? the harms were

kind of hidden under that, that cloud of smoke? i kind of hidden under that, that cloud of smoke?— cloud of smoke? i think that is riuht. cloud of smoke? i think that is right. teenagers _ cloud of smoke? i think that is right. teenagers will _ cloud of smoke? i think that is right. teenagers will do - cloud of smoke? i think that is - right. teenagers will do dangerous things, that is part of growing up and testing your boundaries. i think all of us, we are not so old that we cannot remember doing similar things ourselves and you expect your teenagers today that and you are there to support them but i think there to support them but i think theissue there to support them but i think the issue with this is that it is such an unregulated part of the devices coming on the market so there are so many products now and it is notjust the nicotine in them but that solution in some of these vaping liquids, some of the devices you have seen today, some of these illegal vapes that is really quite frightening. it's extraordinary to me having supposedly learnt the

lesson around cigarettes that we have not as a country or a society, notjust here in the uk but as a civil society, notjust here in the uk but as a civilsociety, have notjust here in the uk but as a civil society, have not learned the lesson of unregulated products like this just flooding the market. and not picking up or that, you know? there is an interesting lesson there perspective the criminalisation of weed as well. do not go away. we have got sharon in essex, not her real name. catherine and nottingham, we are talking about young people, catherine your daughter started vaping and sharon, i have an idea of what you will say that you are a midwife so tell me more. call]! midwife so tell me more. call programme- _ midwife so tell me more. call programme- i— midwife so tell me more. call programme. i was _ midwife so tell me more. cal! programme. i was horrified listening to your programme because prosthetics, we have a big push on to stop women smoking in pregnancy

and this is mainly because of the carbon monoxide in the cigarettes so there is still nicotine in the cigarettes but the reason we are pushing for this is because there is no carbon monoxide in the e cigarettes and i am hearing there as lead and formaldehyde potentially in easy cigarettes and it is quite horrifying because carbon monoxide what it does is it causes miscarriage, birth defects and stillbirth which is why we have this major push on to stop the cigarette smoking and to use the vapes but what are we supposed to tell the women? do we get in contact with the secession team to make sure they are aware of this? i do not think they can be otherwise there would not be pushing for us to pay to use vapes so what should matter the women? i5

so what should matter the women? is there a significant amount of pregnant women who smoke through the pregnancy? pregnant women who smoke through the reunan ? ., , ., pregnancy? younger pockets, we have noticed pockets _ pregnancy? younger pockets, we have noticed pockets of _ pregnancy? younger pockets, we have noticed pockets of illness, _ pregnancy? younger pockets, we have noticed pockets of illness, usually - noticed pockets of illness, usually in poor areas but it is quite successful, we are getting women to stop and at least to use vapes during pregnancy. quite often they. and start again, obviously that is not good because they will have other children but it is making them more aware and partners. what we do, at each appointment we test them for carbon monoxide in their lungs, we do like a breathalyser test. usually they are all very happy to do that and it shows how much carbon monoxide they have in their lungs and this gives them an indication as to how much carbon monoxide they are putting through empty the baby. do

you despair, sharon, that women smoke through pregnancy? i understand the social reasons for that, some people have complicated lungs. but when somebody is eight and a half months pregnant and they are smoking. i and a half months pregnant and they are smoking-— are smoking. i would not say it breaks my _ are smoking. i would not say it breaks my heart, _ are smoking. i would not say it breaks my heart, i _ are smoking. i would not say it breaks my heart, i was - are smoking. i would not say it breaks my heart, i was young, | are smoking. i would not say it| breaks my heart, i was young, i understand how difficult it is to stop. but i think a lot of it is because they have not realised soul in education it can help them to realise what they are doing and most of them try to stop and people that do not understand, and people who continue to smoke, it is desperate. you cannot dispel people. sanjay, did you know about this, women

smoking through pregnancy? firstly it is really important that people who are pregnant stop smoking. how you do it, we know that nicotine is safe. ., , ., , ., you do it, we know that nicotine is safe. ., , .,, ., ., safe. right now people who are reanant safe. right now people who are pregnant or _ safe. right now people who are pregnant or who _ safe. right now people who are pregnant or who have _ safe. right now people who are pregnant or who have vaped, i safe. right now people who are i pregnant or who have vaped, they have _ pregnant or who have vaped, they have outcomes similar to people who stopped _ have outcomes similar to people who stopped smoking altogether meaning that the _ stopped smoking altogether meaning that the birth weight which is one of the _ that the birth weight which is one of the key— that the birth weight which is one of the key thing is that smoking affects — of the key thing is that smoking affects is — of the key thing is that smoking affects is pretty similar in people who have — affects is pretty similar in people who have vaped to quit smoking compared — who have vaped to quit smoking compared to people who have never smoked _ compared to people who have never smoked at _ compared to people who have never smoked at all. in terms of the same thing _ smoked at all. in terms of the same thing applying to regulated products so pregnant women who use vapes to quit smoking should also use regulated products and not illicit products— regulated products and not illicit products and the stories we have heard _ products and the stories we have heard this — products and the stories we have heard this morning on the news and from _ heard this morning on the news and from our— heard this morning on the news and from our callers, the big concern is

that these — from our callers, the big concern is that these illicit products that 'ust that these illicit products that just contain levels of all sorts of things. — just contain levels of all sorts of things. are _ just contain levels of all sorts of things, are completely unregulated and this— things, are completely unregulated and this is— things, are completely unregulated and this is what we should be avoiding, _ and this is what we should be avoiding, the regulated products will he _ avoiding, the regulated products will be more reporting constituencies of the products to the regulator and they are different types _ the regulator and they are different types of— the regulator and they are different types of products under people choose — types of products under people choose to use vapes to quit smoking it is the _ choose to use vapes to quit smoking it is the regulated products, not illicit— it is the regulated products, not illicit once — it is the regulated products, not illicit once should use. jeff, it is the regulated products, not illicit once should use.— illicit once should use. jeff, you saw vapes _ illicit once should use. jeff, you saw vapes in — illicit once should use. jeff, you saw vapes in your _ illicit once should use. jeff, you saw vapes in your shop. - illicit once should use. jeff, you saw vapes in your shop. what l illicit once should use. jeff, you| saw vapes in your shop. what do illicit once should use. jeff, you - saw vapes in your shop. what do you think about this? we are hearing about the legal products which are so dangerous?— about the legal products which are so dangerous? absolutely right, the market is flooded _ so dangerous? absolutely right, the market is flooded with _ so dangerous? absolutely right, the market is flooded with illegal - market is flooded with illegal vapes, — market is flooded with illegal vapes, isopropanol regulated devices through— vapes, isopropanol regulated devices through a _ vapes, isopropanol regulated devices through a massive company based in the uk _ through a massive company based in the uk a _ through a massive company based in the uk. a lot of liquids are made in the uk. a lot of liquids are made in the uk _ the uk. a lot of liquids are made in the uk to — the uk. a lot of liquids are made in the uk. to be regulatory standpoint.

totally— the uk. to be regulatory standpoint. totally wicked is the brand that myself — totally wicked is the brand that myself. it is like a devils head on the brand — myself. it is like a devils head on the brand. it is a brand that has been _ the brand. it is a brand that has been around a long time, i have been setting _ been around a long time, i have been setting at— been around a long time, i have been selling at over ten years. our products— selling at over ten years. our products are given away to people in clinics _ products are given away to people in clinics hy— products are given away to people in clinics by the nhs so our products are promoted by the nhs. do clinics by the nhs so our products are promoted by the nhs.- are promoted by the nhs. do you think ou are promoted by the nhs. do you think you should _ are promoted by the nhs. do you think you should think _ are promoted by the nhs. do you think you should think about - are promoted by the nhs. do you i think you should think about coming to the stage where the branding is as off—putting as it is for a packet of cigarettes, pick up a packet of cigarettes now it is revolting to look at because of the pictures. some of the building is colourful but adults lucullus as well as children _ but adults lucullus as well as children. in our shop, but adults lucullus as well as children. in ourshop, in but adults lucullus as well as children. in our shop, in every shop it is legitimate, there is an 18 sign — it is legitimate, there is an 18 sign everywhere, under 25, anyone looks— sign everywhere, under 25, anyone looks under— sign everywhere, under 25, anyone looks under 25 gets asked for an id.

it is very— looks under 25 gets asked for an id. it is very rare — looks under 25 gets asked for an id. it is very rare but our stores, you maybe _ it is very rare but our stores, you maybe get — it is very rare but our stores, you maybe get a _ it is very rare but our stores, you maybe get a couple of people in, young _ maybe get a couple of people in, young people, every three months, we keep a _ young people, every three months, we keep a log _ young people, every three months, we keep a log of everyone that has tried _ keep a log of everyone that has tried to — keep a log of everyone that has tried to buy underage. it is the law _ tried to buy underage. it is the law there _ tried to buy underage. it is the law. there isn't enough people in trading _ law. there isn't enough people in trading standards to actually enforce _ trading standards to actually enforce the law, that is the problem _ enforce the law, that is the problem. what is uf demographic? up to 75 years _ problem. what is uf demographic? up to 75 years old, 18—75. what problem. what is uf demographic? up to 75 years old, 18-75._ to 75 years old, 18-75. what 18-25 be the main _ to 75 years old, 18-75. what 18-25 be the main demographic? - to 75 years old, 18-75. what 18-25 be the main demographic? well, ij be the main demographic? well, i would say in _ be the main demographic? well, i would say in our _ be the main demographic? well, i would say in our store _ be the main demographic? well, i would say in our store it's - be the main demographic? well, i would say in our store it's about i would say in our store it's about 25-40~ — would say in our store it's about 25—40. generally. and the disposable market— 25—40. generally. and the disposable market is— 25—40. generally. and the disposable market is rife now. that has come along _ market is rife now. that has come along in _ market is rife now. that has come along in the — market is rife now. that has come along in the past year or two. i did not want _ along in the past year or two. i did not want to— along in the past year or two. i did not want to sell disposables but the

market _ not want to sell disposables but the market has forced us into disposables. we would arrange nicotine — disposables. we would arrange nicotine of 0.5 to 1.8 which is lower— nicotine of 0.5 to 1.8 which is lower than— nicotine of 0.5 to 1.8 which is lower than the disposable and people come in _ lower than the disposable and people come in and say how many smoke and you can _ come in and say how many smoke and you can advise them on the strength of the _ you can advise them on the strength of the nicotine product they need. to help _ of the nicotine product they need. to help people stop smoking, basically. to help people stop smoking, basicall . ., . ., , ., basically. how much does it cost and how lona basically. how much does it cost and how long does _ basically. how much does it cost and how long does it _ basically. how much does it cost and how long does it last? _ basically. how much does it cost and how long does it last? the _ basically. how much does it cost and how long does it last? the product i how long does it last? the product itself? a bottle _ how long does it last? the product itself? a bottle of _ how long does it last? the product itself? a bottle of liquid, - how long does it last? the product itself? a bottle of liquid, a - how long does it last? the product itself? a bottle of liquid, a ten - itself? a bottle of liquid, a ten millilitre — itself? a bottle of liquid, a ten millilitre bottle will sell for £4 and a — millilitre bottle will sell for £4 and a shop, equivalent to 100 cigarettes. 35m and a shop, equivalent to 100 cigarettes-— and a shop, equivalent to 100 ciuarettes. �* �* ., . ,, , , ., cigarettes. an in blackpool, instead smokina cigarettes. an in blackpool, instead smoking cigarettes _ cigarettes. an in blackpool, instead smoking cigarettes and _ cigarettes. an in blackpool, instead smoking cigarettes and then - cigarettes. an in blackpool, instead smoking cigarettes and then came l cigarettes. an in blackpool, instead i smoking cigarettes and then came the vapes so what happened? i was smokina vapes so what happened? i was smoking for— vapes so what happened? i was smoking for 50 _ vapes so what happened? i was smoking for 50 years _ vapes so what happened? i was smoking for 50 years and - vapes so what happened? i —" smoking for 50 years and decided for my health before i got health problems that i would give up

smoking. i used to smoke eight or perhaps ten cigarettes every day and now i vape all day long, i cannot put it down. i had never smoked when i drove but now i do. i am more addicted now than i ever was. it is uuite addicted now than i ever was. it is quite convenient, _ addicted now than i ever was. it is quite convenient, i _ addicted now than i ever was. it is quite convenient, i have seen it myself, sad to say i have seen it in myself, sad to say i have seen it in my kids, one of them. just going along and ripping it out and back it goes. ii along and ripping it out and back it noes. , ., ., along and ripping it out and back it toes. i. ., . ., goes. if you light a cigarette when ou are goes. if you light a cigarette when you are driving — goes. if you light a cigarette when you are driving it _ goes. if you light a cigarette when you are driving it is _ goes. if you light a cigarette when you are driving it is dangerous - goes. if you light a cigarette when you are driving it is dangerous so l goes. if you light a cigarette when j you are driving it is dangerous so i never did it and now i have my vape sitting in my cup—holder and i stop at the traffic lights and i am developing, put it down and drive away but i never would have thought of doing that... jeii, away but i never would have thought of doing that. . ._ of doing that... jeff, listening to our blackpool — of doing that... jeff, listening to our blackpool collar, _ of doing that... jeff, listening to our blackpool collar, to - of doing that... jeff, listening to our blackpool collar, to the - of doing that... jeff, listening to | our blackpool collar, to the same wave we were addicted to cigarettes,

people coming to your shop and say i am gasping for a vape!— am gasping for a vape! nicotine is a dru: , am gasping for a vape! nicotine is a drug. there — am gasping for a vape! nicotine is a drug. there is _ am gasping for a vape! nicotine is a drug, there is no _ am gasping for a vape! nicotine is a drug, there is no harm _ am gasping for a vape! nicotine is a drug, there is no harm in _ am gasping for a vape! nicotine is a drug, there is no harm in nicotine, l drug, there is no harm in nicotine, cigarettes— drug, there is no harm in nicotine, cigarettes there _ drug, there is no harm in nicotine, cigarettes there are _ drug, there is no harm in nicotine, cigarettes there are thousands - drug, there is no harm in nicotine, cigarettes there are thousands of. cigarettes there are thousands of chemicals, — cigarettes there are thousands of chemicals, in— cigarettes there are thousands of chemicals, in an _ cigarettes there are thousands of chemicals, in an e—cigarette - cigarettes there are thousands of i chemicals, in an e—cigarette there's about— chemicals, in an e—cigarette there's about three — chemicals, in an e—cigarette there's about three. there _ chemicals, in an e—cigarette there's about three. there is _ chemicals, in an e—cigarette there's about three. there is the _ chemicals, in an e—cigarette there's about three. there is the nicotine, i about three. there is the nicotine, nicotine _ about three. there is the nicotine, nicotine does _ about three. there is the nicotine, nicotine does not _ about three. there is the nicotine, nicotine does not cause _ about three. there is the nicotine, nicotine does not cause cancer- nicotine does not cause cancer whereas— nicotine does not cause cancer whereas cigarettes _ nicotine does not cause cancer whereas cigarettes do. - nicotine does not cause cancer whereas cigarettes do. san'ay, is that riaht, whereas cigarettes do. san'ay, is that right, nicotine * whereas cigarettes do. san'ay, is that right, nicotine is h whereas cigarettes do. sanjay, is that right, nicotine is pretty - that right, nicotine is pretty harmless? that that right, nicotine is pretty harmless?— that right, nicotine is pretty harmless? �* , ., harmless? at the levels you find an e-cigarette — harmless? at the levels you find an e-cigarette is. _ harmless? at the levels you find an e-cigarette is, yes, _ harmless? at the levels you find an e-cigarette is, yes, actually, - harmless? at the levels you find an e-cigarette is, yes, actually, it - harmless? at the levels you find an e-cigarette is, yes, actually, it is l e—cigarette is, yes, actually, it is a stimulant like coffee. but it is addictive like coffee so that is the thing, they are both addictive but in and of itself, taken at the levels that you find in regulated

products, the nicotine itself is not harmful. ~ ., , products, the nicotine itself is not harmful. ., , ., harmful. what is harmful in the legitimate _ harmful. what is harmful in the legitimate legal _ harmful. what is harmful in the legitimate legal regular - harmful. what is harmful in the legitimate legal regular vapes, | harmful. what is harmful in the - legitimate legal regular vapes, what is harmful in those? i legitimate legal regular vapes, what is harmful in those?— is harmful in those? i think it's called the _ is harmful in those? i think it's called the committee - is harmful in those? i think it's called the committee of - is harmful in those? i think it's - called the committee of toxicology looked at this last year and a year before and there was a report from the department of health and social care last year called nicotine vaping in england and they found the vast majority of products on the constituents of the products, that levels of the constituents were less than you found in smoking. and therefore were safer than smoking. in one category they found that some of what they call b biomarkers, the changes in your blood well similar to smoking and therefore the message

is that if you have used vaping to quit smoking should quit vaping as long as there is no risk of you going back to smoking. it is not harm free. you inhale it. heated liuuid. harm free. you inhale it. heated liquid- the _ harm free. you inhale it. heated liquid. the birmingham, - harm free. you inhale it. heated liquid. the birmingham, you - harm free. you inhale it. heated - liquid. the birmingham, you smoked for 55 years. how long have you been vaping? it's six years now. is this the road out, argue on the road to nicotine freedom or is this year? i think i will always be addicted to that is— think i will always be addicted to that is the nature of the beast but i have _ that is the nature of the beast but i have read — that is the nature of the beast but i have read all the things, i have looked _ i have read all the things, i have looked at — i have read all the things, i have looked at the tests they have done in laboratories, there is chemicals in laboratories, there is chemicals in cigarettes, arsenic, formaldehyde, all sorts of nasty things — formaldehyde, all sorts of nasty things. that can cause cancer. nicotine — things. that can cause cancer. nicotine itself does not cause cancer— nicotine itself does not cause cancer but they should not be

selling — cancer but they should not be selling them to children. they should — selling them to children. they should not be selling them to anyone under— should not be selling them to anyone under the _ should not be selling them to anyone under the age of 25. how should not be selling them to anyone under the age of 25.— under the age of 25. how has your health import? — under the age of 25. how has your health import? i— under the age of 25. how has your health import? ifeel— under the age of 25. how has your health import? i feel great. - under the age of 25. how has your health import? ifeel great. my. under the age of 25. how has your. health import? ifeel great. my skin is a lot better. _ health import? ifeel great. my skin is a lot better, my _ health import? ifeel great. my skin is a lot better, my eyes _ health import? ifeel great. my skin is a lot better, my eyes are - health import? ifeel great. my skin is a lot better, my eyes are a - health import? ifeel great. my skin is a lot better, my eyes are a lot i is a lot better, my eyes are a lot better~ — is a lot better, my eyes are a lot better~ i— is a lot better, my eyes are a lot better. i feel fantastic and i think my daughter is really proud of me, she is— my daughter is really proud of me, she is at— my daughter is really proud of me, she is at university and she says i am doing — she is at university and she says i am doing really well and i'm trying to get— am doing really well and i'm trying to get her— am doing really well and i'm trying to get her mother away smoking cigarettes but to me they are a hell of a lot— cigarettes but to me they are a hell of a lot safer in terms of your health — of a lot safer in terms of your health. ,., , . . of a lot safer in terms of your health. , . ., , ., health. does cigarette smoke are more like now? _ health. does cigarette smoke are more like now? it— health. does cigarette smoke are more like now? it stinks! - health. does cigarette smoke are more like now? it stinks! she - health. does cigarette smoke are - more like now? it stinks! she smokes in the bathroom _ more like now? it stinks! she smokes in the bathroom and _ more like now? it stinks! she smokes in the bathroom and when _ more like now? it stinks! she smokes in the bathroom and when you - more like now? it stinks! she smokes in the bathroom and when you walk i more like now? it stinks! she smokesj in the bathroom and when you walk in the bathroom, my god it is awful. the steam — the bathroom, my god it is awful. the steam and... what does she smoke in the bathroom for? she the steam and. .. what does she smoke in the bathroom for?— in the bathroom for? she does not want to inhale _ in the bathroom for? she does not want to inhale cigarette _ in the bathroom for? she does not want to inhale cigarette smoke - want to inhale cigarette smoke outdoors — want to inhale cigarette smoke outdoors but now i have bought her a

vape and _ outdoors but now i have bought her a vape and some liquid, i am not too vape and some liquid, ! am not too keen— vape and some liquid, ! am not too keen on— vape and some liquid, i am not too keen on the — vape and some liquid, i am not too keen on the flavoured liquid spot better— keen on the flavoured liquid spot better that than... what does she make _ better that than... what does she make of— better that than... what does she make of it? — better that than... what does she make of it? she is trying, just getting — make of it? she is trying, just getting used to it. i got her a vape two years— getting used to it. i got her a vape two years ago so now i have got her a better— two years ago so now i have got her a better device that lasts longer but she — a better device that lasts longer but she is— a better device that lasts longer but she is trying and our daughter is giving _ but she is trying and our daughter is giving her the support. but she was a _ is giving her the support. but she was a long—term smoker, they should not be _ was a long—term smoker, they should not be selling them to children in shops. _ not be selling them to children in shops, anybody under the age of 25. nicotine _ shops, anybody under the age of 25. nicotine is _ shops, anybody under the age of 25. nicotine is the addictive substance. that is— nicotine is the addictive substance. that is a _ nicotine is the addictive substance. that is a great call and i love the picture you paint it, i do not love your bathroom but the story you tell is very valuable. i am in colchester, young people, good morning. a very warm welcome to you. come in, sit down and tell us more.

on a long journey back picking up my granddaughter, i was talking in an ideal situation about the problem of self harming and various other things and my granddaughter admitted, well under age, that her friends in her class used flavoured vapes is an eating suppressant so what worries me with anorexia is that these flavoured non—fat milk sweet product that the girls used to suppress their hunger. that sweet product that the girls used to suppress their hunger.— suppress their hunger. that is interesting — suppress their hunger. that is interesting and _ suppress their hunger. that is interesting and extremely - suppress their hunger. that is - interesting and extremely waning. i wonder perhaps if your medical team can verify that all is it subconsciously, they feel thrilled about that sensation of sweetness? that is not something anyone could have predicted and how prevalent is it amongst your friends if you

granddaughter? abs, it amongst your friends if you granddaughter?— it amongst your friends if you granddaughter? it amongst your friends if you ruranddauhter? �* ., , granddaughter? a load of the girls in the class. _ granddaughter? a load of the girls in the class, it _ granddaughter? a load of the girls in the class, it is _ granddaughter? a load of the girls in the class, it is not _ granddaughter? a load of the girls in the class, it is not the _ granddaughter? a load of the girls in the class, it is not the nicotine l in the class, it is not the nicotine but they to suppress their hunger, the sweet product. haifa but they to suppress their hunger, the sweet product.— but they to suppress their hunger, the sweet product. how old is she? she is 14. the sweet product. how old is she? she is 14- and _ the sweet product. how old is she? she is 14. and | — the sweet product. how old is she? she is 14. and i said _ the sweet product. how old is she? she is 14. and i said how _ the sweet product. how old is she? she is 14. and i said how are - the sweet product. how old is she? she is 14. and i said how are they l she is 14. and i said how are they able? like the only people they can just walk into a corner shop. jeii, just walk into a corner shop. jeff, can ou just walk into a corner shop. jeff, can you believe, _ just walk into a corner shop. jeff, can you believe, you _ just walk into a corner shop. jeff, can you believe, you have a vaping shop, who is running these shops? you sound eminently sensible, that is what you call this, but how does this happen, the likes of this young girl can walk into a store and buy... in girl can walk into a store and bu ., , girl can walk into a store and bu . , , ., , girl can walk into a store and buy... in a sweet shop. so prevalent in corner shops _ buy... in a sweet shop. so prevalent in corner shops and _ buy... in a sweet shop. so prevalent in corner shops and sweet _ buy... in a sweet shop. so prevalent in corner shops and sweet shops, i in corner shops and sweet shops, places— in corner shops and sweet shops, places they— in corner shops and sweet shops, places they are not abiding by the rules— places they are not abiding by the rules on— places they are not abiding by the rules on the law, it is crazy. in

our— rules on the law, it is crazy. in our stores _ rules on the law, it is crazy. in our stores will make 100% sure everyone — our stores will make 100% sure everyone is over 18, anyone looks everyone is over18, anyone looks under— everyone is over18, anyone looks under 25— everyone is over 18, anyone looks under 25 they have to produce an id, it is not— under 25 they have to produce an id, it is not on — under 25 they have to produce an id, it is not on. regulations are there. nobody— it is not on. regulations are there. nobody was — it is not on. regulations are there. nobody was enforcing the regulations. i heard of a logo story selling _ regulations. i heard of a logo story selling vapes to young kids, they -ot selling vapes to young kids, they got a _ selling vapes to young kids, they got a £200 fine, they will open next week and _ got a £200 fine, they will open next week and selling tickets again. even my daughters school, she tells me, she is— my daughters school, she tells me, she isjust _ my daughters school, she tells me, she isjust16, i see the problem, the problem is massive. she isjust 16, i see the problem, the problem is massive.- she isjust16, i see the problem, the problem is massive. what you experience _ the problem is massive. what you experience and? _ the problem is massive. what you experience and? i'm _ the problem is massive. what you experience and? i'm sorry? - the problem is massive. what you experience and? i'm sorry? clickl experience and? i'm sorry? click here granddaughter, she can get hold of the vapes very easily. yes. here granddaughter, she can get hold of the vapes very easily.— of the vapes very easily. yes, the corner shops _ of the vapes very easily. yes, the corner shops in _ of the vapes very easily. yes, the corner shops in london. - of the vapes very easily. yes, the corner shops in london. great - corner shops in london. great contributions, _ corner shops in london. great contributions, thank - corner shops in london. great contributions, thank you - corner shops in london. great contributions, thank you all i corner shops in london. great| contributions, thank you all so much. overthe

contributions, thank you all so much. over the shop over the country, thank you so much for listening this morning, and thank you for watching. we will see you tomorrow! live from london, this is bbc news. police investigating the disappearance of madeleine mccann begin searching a reservoir in portugal. police confirm two teenagers died in a crash before a riot broke out in cardiff on monday evening. sudan's latest ceasefire appears to be holding despite some breaches, raising hopes that vital humanitarian aid can be delivered. in sydney — tens of thousands fill a stadium to see india's prime minister, narendra modi, addressing a rally. hello. police have begun a new search for the british toddler madeleine mccann who disappeared during a holiday in portugal 16 years ago.