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tv   BBC News  BBC News  May 24, 2023 3:00am-3:31am BST

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live from washington. this is bbc news. pressure mounts in washington to reach a deal on raising the debt ceiling, with just over a week until a possible default. russia says it has defeated saboteurs who attacked the belgorod region on the border with ukraine. hello, i'm sumi somaskanda. we start tonight in washington, where another day of talks to tackle the us debt crisis has failed to produce results. on tuesday, representatives of us presidentjoe biden and congressional republicans met again on capitol hill. the two sides have untiljune 1st to come to an agreement on raising the govenrment�*s borrowing limit,
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or risk the us not being able to pay its bills. some analysts have warned a default could lead to huge job losses in the us, and even a global recession. stocks on wall street finished sharply lower on tuesday. despite this, optimism among leaders remains. negotiations are very hard, very difficult, both sides have to understand they won't get everything they want. we are trying to get to a budget that is reasonable and bipartisan. that democrats and republicans in the house and senate will be able to vote on and agree on. this is the process, that's why we are moving in this way, to make sure it's bipartisan, but also reasonable. that's what you all can look forward to. for the latest on this story, i spoke to cbs news congressional correspondent nikole killion. has there been any movement in negotiations? not much movement at all.
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in fact, it seems like talks have once again hit an impasse, although both sides are still at the negotiating table to a certain extent. but as of now, we're not aware of any further scheduled meetings between the white house and negotiators for house speaker kevin mccarthy. the speaker told me earlier today he still believes that he and president biden are nowhere near a deal. one of the big sticking points is the issue of spending caps. the speaker's team continue to emphasise that there are some fundamental differences. they really want to make a fundamental shift in the trajectory of how the us government spends its money. as you know, this has been an age—old argument between democrats and republicans foryears, decades. they are trying to resolve all of this in a matter of days, and it's proving
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to be quite challenging. we have also heard these terms of optimism, talks about the negotiations being productive. both sides showing willingness to agree that a default is off the table, so why can't they get past these sticking points? the negotiators continue to applaud each other and commend each other for being very productive, and they feel like they're getting a better sense of each other�*s positions, but as i mentioned, this really comes to some fundamental differences over spending. republicans passed a debt limit billjust last month where they proposed increasing the debt limit by $1.5 trillion, which would lift the debt ceiling in the united states through march of next year, and it would also reduce spending by $4.8 trillion. that's the amount of cuts republicans are proposing
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in their legislation, which did pass the house with republican support. but democrats have continued to argue they feel that is too draconian. republicans have also insisted that spending levels be lowered. they want it closer to what the government spent in fiscal year 2022, they think that is a good baseline. the white house has proposed freezing spending levels, but that is not enough savings to republicans. they argue the white house and the democrats have spent a lot of money with respect to covid and with respect to a variety of bills that they feel has fuelled inflation, so they don't want to keep spending at those levels, even at current levels. that said, both sides say they are committed and they understand the gravity of the situation, knowing the us could potentially default on its obligations, not be able to pay its bills, as soon asjune 1st.
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so they continue to keep that deadline in mind as they try to work towards an agreement. that's our final question. even if they reach an agreement, it would have to get through both chambers, so how concerned are republicans and democrats about the real possibility of a default, just days away? again, that's the one interesting thing, everybody agrees that they don't want us to default on its obligations. but it continues to be difficult to see where they find an off ramp. we're at nine days, less than two weeks to try to hash out an agreement. as you know, nothing moves quickly here in congress. so even if an agreement is reached, it's going to take time for lawmakers to craft the legislation. and of course, many republicans insist once the legislation is crafted, they want 72 hours to be able to review that bill, that's three days out of the nine—day window
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that they have left. and that's not to mention that, here in the senate, the senate is out, they still have to come back and take up the legislation as well, which could take upwards of a week. so we are really talking about a very difficult deadline and schedule to meet. the hope is if they can try to reach an agreement this week, the speaker said he wanted a deal last week but he has said if they can reach a deal this week, he still thinks it's possible to meet that deadline. thank you so much for “oining us. ., , the negotiations over the next few days are sure to be in intense. just a short while ago, i spoke to mick mulvaney, the former trump white house chief of staff, office of management and budget director, and member of congress about how this could play out. mick, it's good to have you back on the show. let's start with where
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things are like now with the negotiations over the debt ceiling. republicans calling for rolling back spending to previous year's levels and writing a spending cap into law. democrats are saying the republicans are holding the economy hostage. you served in the house, what would you advise them to do? which side? i think the republicans have done exactly the right thing. kevin mccarthy was able to get the republicans to pass a bill 30 days ago, significantly changing the dynamics. many people, many advisers, many pundits and many folks inside the building, including a lot of republicans, didn't think it was possible for the republicans to pass a bill on their own to raise the debt ceiling. kevin was able to do that and change the dynamic. so advice to the republicans is, you folks have done what you need to do. the democrats, i think the advice would be, you folks need to decide, are you really going to dig in on this negotiation or is there going to be negotiation?
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i talked to kevin two days ago and he said once the president left forjapan, the talks took two or three steps backwards. he thought he had made progress, and when the staff took over, over the weekend, instead of talking about how big should the spending reductions be, it became, the democrats wanted to spend more money. so i think the ball is in the democrats�* court, as to whether they are going to dig in or negotiate, which is what we usually do on a debt ceiling. so you don't think the republicans will have to make any compromises to reach a deal? oh, no, sure, the bill to raise the debt ceiling will have to pass the senate with 60 votes, which means it's going to be bipartisan. i significantly doubt that the final version of whatever comes before a vote will get all the republican votes, because the idea of a bipartisan bill
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in the senate and a completely partisan bill in the house... that doesn't make any sense. the republicans will compromise, the question is who goes first, and i think it's the democrats because the republicans have already passed a bill. republican negotiators say they still see a huge gap between their side and the white house right now. do you think kevin mccarthy can cut a deal that both democrats and republicans will agree to? the question is can they both cut a deal that everyone can agree to? i think this is the risk. talking to republicans and mr mccarthy, they are concerned that joe biden, president biden doesn't have the same relationship with his progressive wing that kevin has cultivated with his conservative wing. keep in mind, the conservatives kept kevin mccarthy from being speaker in the first 16 ballots injanuary, but the relationship between those elements in the republican party seem
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to have warmed up considerably, that's how he could pass the vote a month ago. the republicans are worried that because the democrats didn't think that would happen, they didn't take the time to cultivate the relationship with their progressive left, and you already have the members on the left saying they are not going to vote for anything, and that is the concern in republican circles. that the democrats are not on the same page in the way republicans are, and that could be a formula for slipping past the deadline, even accidentally. something we are hearing from progressives is one alternative, the president could bypass congress and invoke the 14th amendment, you said it is not a good idea because it could harm the economy, but if a deal is not struck next week, should president biden just continue to pay the bills and invoke this? i don't object to it because i think it's harmful for the economy, i object because i think it is illegal. janet yellen the treasury
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secretary agrees with me on that, it's something says she's not sure she has the ability to do. if the reason is to prevent a shock to the system, invoking the 14th amendment at the last minute is going to be a shock to the system. if you were buying treasury bills and lending money to the federal government, are you still going to want to do that if you don't know if the debt they are trying to sell you is even legal? it hasn't been tested in court. that's the reason janet yellen pushed back on it. so democrats are worried about it as well. at the same time, if you believe the 14th amendment, with arcane language about not questioning the debt of the united states, if you believe that gives the ability to do something special, to prioritise payments, there's plenty of money every single day to pay the interest on the debt. that is what a default is, when you don't pay your debt when it comes due. so there is plenty of cash to pay off the debt the debt as it comes due. if you make the argument that the 14th amendment gives you special privileges, maybe the place to look is prioritisation and not
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completely ignoring the debt ceiling entirely. looking ahead to the republican presidential nomination, that is making big news this week. you were at senator tim scott's campaign announcement yesterday, are you endorsing him? no, i'm not, iam friends with all these folks. i have been on the state legislature with senator scott and with nikki haley, i served in the house with ron desantis, and with mike pence in the white house. they're all friends, it's usual when you have been in politics as long as i have, i'm not endorsing anybody, i was impressed with what tim had to say yesterday and with what ron desantis has said. there are 4—5 legitimate contenders for the republican nomination. but you are kidding yourself if you don't say donald trump is by far the prohibitive favourite right now, a 20 or 30 point favourite right now. still several months before the first debate, six or eight months before the first ballot, so a lot can change, but i think the smart money right now is on donald trump being the republican nominee. you mentioned those numbers.
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we have looked at the average from real clear politics, and donald trump has an advantage, 56.3%, and the florida governor who we expect to announce tomorrow, ron desantis, at i9.4%. so the former president trump still leading by a large margin. you have said donald trump is the only republican who could lose. what do you think ron desantis or tim scott would need to do to win this nomination? they need to convince people that donald trump can't win a general election. i believe trump can win but he is more likely to lose. i think ron desantis, nikki haley, mike pence, they sail easily to the white house in a binary choice between them and joe biden. i think with donald trump on the republican ticket, it becomes a referendum on him, and he could lose that race as he did in 2020.
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that's why i say he is the only republican who could lose. any republican running against trump, you have to convince people that if you really want to beat joe biden, the person to do that is someone other than donald trump. it's hard to do, he is a former president, a commanding lead in the polls, but you have some very talented republicans, it might take something unique, say tim scott and ron desantis teaming up early on, president and vice presidential ticket, which would be unusual but it's an unusual time in american politics, so who knows what could happen? i think we will see a lot of strange things before voting starts in iowa injanuary. do you think republicans want to elect someone other than donald trump? i think 60% of the nation wants somebody other than trump and biden, so the answer is yes but that's not how we elect a president. donald trump can be beaten relatively easily in a one—on—one race, he's going to get 35% in the republican race... if i run against you
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and get 35%, i lose. and seven other people and get 35%, i win. that's how you end up becoming the nominee and that is the dynamic that donald trump is taking advantage of right now. thank you so much for your analysis. staying in the us, lawmakers in the state of south carolina have passed a ban on most abortions after fetal cardiac activity begins — around six weeks of pregnancy. the vote passed mostly along party lines, but the three republican women in south carolina's senate all opposed it, voting with the democrats. the hotly contested bill is a revised version of an earlier measure that the south carolina supreme court ruled unconstitutional earlier this year. the ban is expected to be signed into law by republican governor, henry mcmaster. planned parenthood have already indicated they'll mount a legal challenge, saying on twitter, "we'll see you in court". around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news.
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at least saint philips food bank, they start queueing two hours before it opens. this is food that is in short supply, but high demand. it's really bad. this is the warehouse where much of the food comes from. fridges are virtually empty. from. fridges are virtually em a . ,, , from. fridges are virtually em . ,, , ., from. fridges are virtually em ., �*, empty. shelves are bare. it's really desperate. _ empty. shelves are bare. it's really desperate. every - empty. shelves are bare. it's really desperate. every weekj empty. shelves are bare. it's i really desperate. every week we think, is this the week we have to shut the doors because we can't keep up with the orders? back at the saint philips food bank, the shortage means they have been forced to find food elsewhere, but that too is proving difficult. we elsewhere, but that too is proving difficult.— proving difficult. we are havinu proving difficult. we are having to _ proving difficult. we are having to literally - proving difficult. we are having to literally go - proving difficult. we are | having to literally go into shops, _ having to literally go into shops, and some shops are saying _ shops, and some shops are saying we _ shops, and some shops are saying we can't buy as much as we are, — saying we can't buy as much as we are, because we are emptying some _ we are, because we are emptying some of— we are, because we are emptying some of their shelves and obviously they want to leave
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food — obviously they want to leave food for _ obviously they want to leave food for other paying customers. so going in and buying _ customers. so going in and buying 100 cans of beans in a single — buying 100 cans of beans in a single go— buying 100 cans of beans in a single go raises a few eyebrows. you're live with bbc news. let's move on to australia, where we find the indian prime minister narendra modi on a visit to boost economic ties with australia. a short time ago, mr modi held bilateral talks with his australian counterpart anthony albanese, in sydney. the pair discussed trade and investment, as well as security and climate change. a day earlier, thousands gathered at a large rally in sydney's olympic park, to hear the australian and indian prime ministers heap praise on each other. both leaders thanked the crowds gathered in the stadium for their contribution to the relationship between the two countries. russia says insurgents who launched attacks inside russian territory near the border with ukraine have been defeated. the kremlin claims it killed 70 attackers who crossed into the belgorod region on monday. it says the rest were driven back into ukraine. belgorod's governor said one civilian died in the violence. ukraine denies involvement involvement in the attack. our security correspondent
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frank gardner has more. this raid, launched from ukrainian territory but carried out by russians, could turn out to be a little bit of a mixed blessing for kyiv. why? well, on the one hand, it's embarrassing for moscow, it shows that its borders and defences were not as watertight as they would have liked, and it could end up drawing some russian troops away from southern ukraine, where the thrust of the coming ukrainian offensive is expected to focus. but on the other hand, it reinforces the kremlin narrative that mother russia, sovereign russian territory, is coming under attack and under threat from malign forces — armed, encouraged and equipped by the west. and despite denials from ukraine, it's hard to imagine this raid would have been carried out without the knowledge or even help from ukraine's military intelligence, the gur. and anotherfactor, some of those involved in this raid are reported to be linked
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to the far right extremism. now, this is a tiny group that no one has heard of until now, almost no—one, and they don't represent the bulk of ukrainians or ukraine. but nevertheless, in the battle for pr, this is bad optics for ukraine. if some of them turn out to be linked to neo—nazism orfascism, it reinforces the kremlin narrative that it's fighting this war to rid ukraine of neo—nazis, and that's a bad look for ukraine. earlier, my colleague azadeh moshiri spoke with bill taylor, former us ambassador to ukraine and current vice president of europe and russia at the us institute of peace. ambassador taylor, thank you so much forjoining us. so first i want to start on belgorod. there are a lot of competing narratives. how do you make sense of it? it appears to me that these are russian citizens, they have been training and preparing in ukraine. there's no doubt about that. there's probably been some
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coordination between these two outfits — these russian citizen outfits — coordination with the ukrainians. there's no doubt about that. but it's also the case that the russian citizens don't like the russian government. they don't like president putin. and this is a way, i guess, to listen to what they've been saying. it's a way to demonstrate that — it's a demonstration to other russian citizens who have not left the country that there are things that can be done. so you said that it's likely that there was ukrainian coordination with all this. you actuallyjust came back from a trip in kyiv — you met with high—level officials there. what are they telling you about this next phase of the war? they are preparing...vigorously for the next phase of the war. they're preparing for this long—discussed and planned counteroffensive. the ukrainians, i think, are at a high point
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in their preparations, in their strength, in their equipment, certainly in their morale. they are... they are ready. and it seems to me that the russians are probably at a low point in all of those things. their morale is terrible. their equipment is worn out. their people have been... decimated. the soldiers that they've thrown into bakhmut have been just wiped out. so they... i think the russians are at a low point, the ukrainians are at a high point, so the ukrainians are optimistic that they can go now — they can go very soon. so when it comes to equipment, though, president biden has actually reversed his earlier decision about training ukrainians on the f—16 jets, about allies providing that support. but, time and time again, we've heard pentagon officials
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and other officials say that it would take months, if not years, for ukrainian pilots to be able to operate these f—16s effectively. so, practically speaking, is that a good use of money? i think it is, i think it is. i mean, one thing we heard over and over — notjust from the defence minister and the former defence minister and the foreign minister and the former... across the board, government and non—government — the amazing thing is the non—governmental organisations, the democracy—supporting organisations — they also want f—165, they want weapons for their counteroffensive. that society, the government, the non—gov... the people outside the government — civilians. we talked to privates, we talked to generals, we talked to lieutenants. they are focused on this. and, yes, the f—16s give them a real edge. but you're right and they're right — these f—16s are probably not going to play a role in this counteroffensive over the next two months. but not too long after that —
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maybe in the fall, maybe in september, october — the first f—16s may be there. you mentioned how long it's going to take to train — it turns out the ukrainians learn very quickly on a lot of these different systems, and they've been preparing for these f—165, as well. you said that it gives the ukrainians a real edge, but isn't thatjust one of the problems — that these jets could cross the border into russia and suddenly this war could become escalated ? the ukrainians have had weapons — from the united states and from other nato nations — that could, right now, reach into russia. the ukrainians have not used those weapons to attack targets in russia. they have used their own weapons — it is clear, it is true that the ukrainians have used their own weapons, that they've developed ukrainian weapons to fire on russian targets. if there are targets in russia, there are military units
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in russia that are firing at ukrainian targets, then the ukrainians... argue — and i think persuasively — that they should be able to fire back. they, however, have not used western weapons. and i just want to touch on nato's expansion. turkey is, of course, very reticent for sweden to join. turkey is also asking congress — the us congress — for its own f—16fighterjets. should that request be tied to accepting sweden's membership? yes, absolutely. there's no reason for the turks to hold up the swedes. if the turks have recognised that their use of russian weapons — and they've got some anti—aircraft weapons from the russians, which makes no sense in a nato nation... so, yes, we do have some leverage over the turks — and the turks want those f—165, we want the swedes into nato. and in the end, i think the turks will allow that to happen.
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and very briefly, ambassador, looking to the future — having been in kyiv so recently, do you think that ukraine can win this war? do you think peace can be achieved without ukraine giving up some of its territory? i do. i don't know how long it's going to take, but i do think that the ukrainians can win. they're very well prepared right now. and the foreign minister told us this is not the last battle. this next counteroffensive is not the last time. they may do great in this next counteroffensive. they may only take partially what they're after in this next kind of phase. it doesn't matter. ukrainians will keep fighting. they will keep fighting for their territory. and i think, yes, in the end, there can be a peace, there can be a peace with the russians entirely out of ukraine. ambassador taylor, thank you so much forjoining us. thank you, azadeh, good to be here.
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thank you for watching. stay with us here on bbc news. hello. temperatures on tuesday reached 21 degrees celsius in yorkshire and i think wednesday is going to be every bit as warm, maybe even a tad warmer. and the next few days, very little change on the weather front. large area of high pressure is dominating the weather across our part of the world. but the air is riding around the area of high pressure and the air actually originates from the central north atlantic. so we're not seeing the push of warm air that we sometimes get from the southern climes. and that means that so far this may, depending how you look at it, has been a little disappointing in terms of the temperatures. so we've only managed to reach 23 degrees so far. in most years, those values reached the mid or the high 20s, at least at some
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point in may. so yes, it has been a little on the cool side, which is not necessarily a bad thing, not all of us like hot weather. so the forecast then early on wednesday shows a bit of cloud across western scotland and northern ireland, maybe a few spits and spots of rain. but elsewhere we're waking up to mostly sunny skies. a bit of a nip in the air, though, particularly in the north. now this weather front will continue to bring spits and spots of rain and thicker cloud for a time through the morning, into the afternoon towards north western areas. but to the south of that, it is going to be a gloriously sunny day. so this is where the temperatures will be at their highest, typically in the high teens to perhaps the low 20s in one or two areas. 22, for example, in cardiff. also worth mentioning that the sun is of course very strong this time of the year. and high uv levels pretty much across the board. the high pressure is still with us on thursday, but it means also that the wind directions will be changing around the uk as this high pressure changes shape. and that does mean that
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cloud will be pushed across the country into different areas. so it does look as though parts of england will be a little on the cloudy side at times on thursday. so just because we've got high pressure doesn't necessarily mean it will stay sunny all through the week. and here's friday, you can see the temperatures again, fairly similar, high teens possibly up to about 22 degrees celsius. the high pressure system over us is going to last through the weekend and quite possibly into next week too. and look at the values in cardiff. it's pretty much the same every single day. certainly not looking bad at all. bye— bye.
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i think that's her. she's just sat down with an undercover researcher. this woman is running an elaborate immigration scam. she finds british men to pose as fathers to children that aren't theirs, giving migrant women a way to stay in the uk.

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