live from washington. this is bbc news, welcome to viewers on pbs in america. as russian mercenaries from the wagner group say they are pulling out of bakhmut, bbc verify reveals the extent of the destruction caused by months of fighting. could there be movement in the us debt talks? the new york times reports the white house and republicans are closing in on a deal. and far—right militia leader stewart rhodes gets 18 years in prison for his role in the january 6th attack. hello, i'm sumi somaskanda. we start in ukraine, where officials have dismissed claims that the city of bakhmut has fallen to russia, after wagner mercenaries said

they've started handing over control of the eastern city to moscow's army. the battle for bakhmut has been the longest and bloodiest of the war. this aerialfootage taken earlier this month shows intense shelling in a residential area. most people fled before fighting broke out. bakhmut is of little strategic value, but its capture would be a symbolic victory for russia. meanwhile, the ukrainian president volodymr zelensky made a surprise commencement speech for graduates atjohns hopkins university in the us. i'm proud that ukraine is not losing a single day in its defence against russian terror. every day, we do everything to become stronger, to give more protection to people, to save more lives. the united states is also not lost a single day to help ukraine repel the russian aggression. the battle for bakhmut began last august. ukraine says its forces still control part of it.

our bbc verify team has been looking at images that show the extent of the destruction there during these months of fighting. this is bakhmut before russia invaded ukraine. once famous for its sparkling wine and thousands of rose bushes. this is bakhmut now — reduced to a landscape of ruin and death. but not defeated, the ukrainian army told us. ukrainian troops stay in south—western part of bakhmut. ukrainian army keep pushing the enemy from site of the city. 70,000 people used to live here before russia's full—scale invasion of ukraine. i was here in 2018 when the city was still full of life. this satellite image shows a street in bakhmut in may last year with civilian blocks of flats surrounding a school and two nurseries. and here they are now,

after months of shelling. the bbc has been tracking the extent of this destruction. this used to be a famous site in sport, the rose garden. ukrainian�*s largest, with over 5,000 bushes. and here it is in april this year. 0n the eastern side of bakhmut is the winery. the world's deepest underground winery. we have verified footage showing it is now used by the russian mercenary group wagner. here is the military group's founder at the winery on the 23rd of february. several months later, he is there again. using visible terrain and structures, we managed to match the video to the winery's entrance. as russian forces have moved across the city, entire neighbourhoods

have been destroyed. it's a site that has echoes of other cities that have faced russia's brutal bombardments in other countries. from grozny in chechnya. from grozny in chechnya in 2000. moscow's intervention in syria reducing aleppo to rubble. to cities in ukraine. russia may claim bakhmut is theirs, but in reality, there is little left to control. 0lga malchevska, bbc news. earlier, i spoke to congressman seth moulton about where congress stands on us support for ukraine. we also discussed an op—ed he wrote about the need to regulate how artificial intelligence is used in war. congressman, it's great to have you back on our show. let's start with ukraine. the head of the bag and a mercenary group have said they have captured the city of bakhmut. —— the

head of the wagner group. we also expect to see ukraine launch a counter offensive. does the west need to see ukraine succeed in this counter offensive to continue full military support?- offensive to continue full military support? no, i don't think we need _ military support? no, i don't think we need to, _ military support? no, i don't think we need to, but - military support? no, i don't think we need to, but i - military support? no, i don't think we need to, but i think| think we need to, but i think we will. i'm very optimistic about the ukrainian counter offensive. they are very well prepared having trained for months with western armies like our own. they have better equipment, new equipment. and because of what they've been doing in places like bakhmut, where they have been wearing down the russian military, and the sag in a group and these are the mercenaries fighting for putin, the russians are tired. —— and the wagner group. they are short on supplies, running out of ammunition, so i'm optimistic about this counteroffensive, i think it's going to go well. the counteroffensive, i think it's going to go well.— counteroffensive, i think it's going to go well. the us has sent going to go well. the us has spent over— going to go well. the us has spent over $75 _ going to go well. the us has spent over $75 billion - going to go well. the us has spent over $75 billion in - going to go well. the us has spent over $75 billion in aid l spent over $75 billion in aid in ukraine, are you concerned

republicans will start to try cutting funding to ukraine? that's always a concern, but i sit on the armed services committee and behind closed doors, the republicans are all supportive. everyone understands what's at stake for ukraine. the challenge with republicans in congress right now is these extremists in the party, the extremist that kevin mccarthy, the speaker of the house, needed votes from in order to get elected. the vast majority of republicans want to continue supporting ukraine, the question is whether these extremists will hold sway over the party. i extremists will hold sway over the -a . ., ., extremists will hold sway over the party-— extremists will hold sway over the - . ., ., ., ., ., the party. i want to move on to the party. i want to move on to the op-ed — the party. i want to move on to the op-ed that _ the party. i want to move on to the op-ed that you _ the party. i want to move on to the op-ed that you wrote - the party. i want to move on to the op-ed that you wrote in - the party. i want to move on to| the op-ed that you wrote in the the op—ed that you wrote in the boston globe about the need to regulate artificial intelligence and particularly on the battlefield and how it's used in defence. said we need a geneva convention for a i, what would that look like?— would that look like? here is the problem. _ would that look like? here is the problem, we _ would that look like? here is the problem, we are - would that look like? here is i the problem, we are developing a i so quickly, so we are not that far away from literally having killer robots. we will

programme our killer robots to limit collateral damage and civilian damage, to be careful on the battlefield in the same way as troops, but look at what putin is doing in bakhmut, he has levelled the city. we can't expect adversaries like russia and china to follow the same laws of the road when it comes not only to their truth but to their autonomous weapons. that's why we have to get ahead of this problem and set some international norms for their use, the same way we have come to agreement on things like chemical weapons. there was once a proposal to have blinding lasers, and russia, china and the us got together and said, we don't want those things on the battlefield and so we made a convention in the 19905 to prevent them. that is the kind of agreement that we need. i the kind of agreement that we need. ., ., ., i. ., need. i want to ask you about that kind _ need. i want to ask you about that kind of — need. i want to ask you about that kind of agreement. - need. i want to ask you about that kind of agreement. you | that kind of agreement. you wrote, achieving this kind of agreement among world powers including russia and china at a time of mistrust and profound strategic divergence will be

incredibly challenging. ties with china are strained as they've been since the 19705, and with russia even worse since the start of the war, so what incentive would they have come together with the us and the west to reach some sort of an agreement? it’s the west to reach some sort of an agreement?— an agreement? it's the same incentive — an agreement? it's the same incentive we _ an agreement? it's the same incentive we all— an agreement? it's the same incentive we all had - an agreement? it's the same incentive we all had to - an agreement? it's the same incentive we all had to limit i incentive we all had to limit the use and proliferation of nuclear weapons after world war ii. it's a recognition that these weapons are notjust dangerous for our adversaries or our troops, they are dangerous for humanity itself. this could quickly get out of control. so yes, this is going to be very hard, but we had remarkable breakthroughs on nuclear arms control at the height of the cold war. we have had early interest in this kind of discussion and debate from china despite the challenges between, the tensions between our countries right now. the worst thing here would be to not try. it's incredibly important. let mejust not try. it's incredibly important. let me just add this, you started by talking about how we should regulate a l, about how we should regulate a i, and i actually think

congress isn't going to be fast enough to regulate a i as a whole. we need to focus on the most dangerous use cases. this is one of them, this is where the government should turn its attention. wejust the government should turn its attention. we just need to make the case successfully to other governments around the world that they need to focus on this too. i that they need to focus on this too. ., ~' that they need to focus on this too. ., ~ ., that they need to focus on this too. ., 4' ., . ," that they need to focus on this too. ., ~ ., ., ,~' i. too. i would like to ask you also about _ too. i would like to ask you also about debt _ too. i would like to ask you also about debt ceiling - also about debt ceiling negotiations happening in washington. this entire week, time is running out, republicans on capitol hill seem optimistic they can reach a deal with the white house. do you think a deal that both sides can agree to can actually be reached? i sides can agree to can actually be reached?— be reached? i think fundamentally - be reached? i think fundamentally it i be reached? i think. fundamentally it can, be reached? i think- fundamentally it can, but be reached? i think— fundamentally it can, but again the question is notjust what kevin mccarthy, the speaker of the house, can negotiate with president biden, but whether this republican speaker can sell it to the extremists in his caucus. because the extreme politicians like matt gates and marjorie taylor greene, some of the most extreme politicians in america has ever seen, he required their votes to become speaker. that is why they are

holding us hostage. the democrats raised the debt ceiling three times under donald trump. they didn't like donald trump. they didn't like donald trump. they didn't like donald trump and his policies but it's the right thing to do for the country. it's time for the republicans to step up and do the same thing.— the republicans to step up and do the same thing. some in your -a are do the same thing. some in your party are calling _ do the same thing. some in your party are calling on _ do the same thing. some in your party are calling on the - party are calling on the president to invoke the 14th amendment and go around congress. can a deal be reached that they will agree to? mt; that they will agree to? my snapicion — that they will agree to? my suspicion is, _ that they will agree to? my suspicion is, at _ that they will agree to? m suspicion is, at the end of that they will agree to? m1 suspicion is, at the end of the day, there will be some deal in the middle, that a lot of republicans and some democrats vote for, and someone both sides won't vote for it too. that is the sweet spot we need to find. make no mistake, it's challenging. again, we shouldn't even be having this debate, we should be doing the right thing. extremist republicans have got us to this point, but now we are here, we need to find some compromise and get enough democrats and republicans together to get us over the line.— over the line. thank you so much for — over the line. thank you so much forjoining _ over the line. thank you so much forjoining us - over the line. thank you so much forjoining us today. |

with the deadline looming here in the us to raise the debt ceiling, the new york times is reporting that negotiators could be closing in on a deal. while details have yet to be finalised, the newspaper reports that negotiators were discussing a compromise that would raise the debt limit for two years while capping federal spending on everything but the military and veterans for the same period. we will keep an eye on that story and bring you any updates as they come in. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. ruth perry took her own life while waiting for an 0fsted report. caversham primary was being graded inadequate. inspectors raised concerns about how children were kept safe. an inquest will look at events around ruth perry's death. suicides are not investigated by the health and safety executive. now, two leading academics are calling for that to change. in the british medicaljournal,

they also say 0fsted has a duty of care, a call welcomed the family. ruth's death was not sadly, however tragic it is to us, was not a one—off anomaly. 0fsted has described ruth perry's death is a tragedy. it said it inspects first and foremost in the interests of children, professionally and sensitively, careful of the impact on staff. you're live with bbc news. mark zuckerberg, ceo of meta, the parent company of facebook and instagram, attempted to rally his employees after another round of layoffs this week. according to the washington post, the company cut more than 10,000 jobs on wednesday and closed another 5,000 open ones. meta's products are used by more than three billion people worldwide, according to the company's website. the company's influence is of growing concern to democracy defenders like nobel peace prize winner maria ressa.

i sat down with her here in washington to discuss social media and its power of mis— and disinformation. thank you for sitting down with us on the sidelines of the summit. us on the sidelines of the summit-— us on the sidelines of the summit. i, i, i, summit. thanks for having me. you and dimitri _ summit. thanks for having me. you and dimitri were _ summit. thanks for having me. you and dimitri were awarded l you and dimitri were awarded the nobel prize in holding governments to account. since then, you have been focusing a lot on reining in big tech. why have you shifted from governments to technology companies?— governments to technology comanies? n i, , , companies? actually, you see the are companies? actually, you see they are hand-in-hand - companies? actually, you see they are hand-in-hand for - companies? actually, you see| they are hand-in-hand for me. they are hand—in—hand for me. the rise of president do tertay, illiberal leaders, the destruction of our institutions within six months. it goes hand—in—hand with the power of facebook. by the time i started writing how to stand up to a dictator, which was published last year, it was, which dictator and my talking about? rodrigo duterte in the philippines or mark zuckerberg

on facebook? facebook is our internet, so the decisions of these tech giants, the ce05 of these tech giants, the ce05 of these companies, determine what our world is. 50 these companies, determine what our world ia— our world is. so you are saying mark zuckerberg _ our world is. so you are saying mark zuckerberg of _ our world is. so you are saying mark zuckerberg of facebook. our world is. so you are saying| mark zuckerberg of facebook is essentially like a dictator? i5 essentially like a dictator? is he not? think about it, as of 2018, twitter and facebook... mit came out with a study that said lies spread six times faster than really boring fact. 0n social media, we are handcuffed. the incentive structure one of the speakers today talked about incentive structures and how it spread disinformation and lies. there's a reason for that. because when you spread the lies, you stay on the platform longer, it keeps... every news website wants to do that, except news organisations do not use the data... we don't clone our users the same way

these tech companies do. and we don't sell their weakest moment to a message, to a country or a company. that is micro—targeting. the big difference between advertising and micro—targeting. big difference between advertising and micro-targeting.— and micro-targeting. big tech companies — and micro-targeting. big tech companies would _ and micro-targeting. big tech companies would say - and micro-targeting. big tech companies would say they - and micro-targeting. big techj companies would say they are private companies, and you and i sign up to use their services. we give our data to facebook because we want to take part and be on their platforms and engage with each other. i i, i, , , , other. technology, these big tech companies, _ other. technology, these big tech companies, starting - other. technology, these big tech companies, starting in l tech companies, starting in 2016, tiktok wasn't there yet, so it was really american social media companies. this is the most unregulated industry around the world. the cambridge analytic whistle—blower came to manila for world press freedom day, and he pointed out that a toaster in america has to go through more safety checks to get in an american home than the phone you have, and the software there. the education

of software engineers, i have spoken to several schools in the united states, software engineers, unlike civil engineers, unlike civil engineers, they take one class on ethics, on harms. a civil engineer is responsible for the building they build, and the software engineers, that's the doorway to our emotions, to changing the way we think and the way we act. and there is nothing that stops them from manipulating us. you nothing that stops them from manipulating us.— manipulating us. you are callin: manipulating us. you are calling for— manipulating us. you are calling for governments i manipulating us. you are. calling for governments to protect media freedom by cutting off disinformation upstream. are you not concerned that some governments could use such laws to then ban the type of speech they just such laws to then ban the type of speech theyjust don't like? that is again a fallacy. it's like a false equivalence. just because there are bad governments, doesn't mean you should not protect your citizens. just because russia will do something, doesn't mean the united states should not implement policies and laws to

protect its citizens. what we know for sure now, and it took a long time, but the attorney general just yesterday said that social media, there is enough evidence that social media harms children. people who work inside these tech companies, they don't allow their kids on it. i have a friend inside one of the big tech companies, their children... you become addicted to this, right? this is meant to this, right? this is meant to keep you addicted, dopamine highs. the harms and the impact is very clear now, and nothing has been done to stop it. share has been done to stop it. are ou has been done to stop it. are you seeing — has been done to stop it. are you seeing any _ has been done to stop it. are you seeing any outlets that do have a wide impact and are still able to maintain that journalistic integrity? we are doinu journalistic integrity? we are doing our— journalistic integrity? we are doing ourjobs, _ journalistic integrity? we are doing ourjobs, it _ journalistic integrity? we are doing ourjobs, it took - journalistic integrity? we are doing ourjobs, it took a - doing ourjobs, it took a lifetime for me to learn to tell a story with facts, micro—and macro. to keep your attention. in this new attention. in this new attention economy, an outreach

economy that incites fear, anger and hate, that gets the widest distribution. are you going to do a story that incites fear, anger and hate, are you going to lie? you're not going to do that. so we are handcuffed. part of the reason we have so many conspiracy theories that have busted through into the mainstream... think about it like this, alex jones was on these platforms for years, wreaking havoc, changing what people felt and how they thought. and then they took him down. but the platforms were not held liable. the un and facebook itself sent people to myanmar, where genocide happened. both those groups found that facebook enabled genocide. i don't know how much more evidence we want. and now with generative a i, we are at a whole other place. this is part of the reason i speak all the time, because we

have the evidence. generative a l, have the evidence. generative a i, what has happened in the first generation, ourfears, anger and hate was weaponised against us. that brought tribalism. the new generative a l, tribalism. the new generative a i, intimacy is what will be weaponised. intimacy. take a look at a company like replica, which tells you, create your own a i, it will always be with you, be your best friend. a i is not human, it has no morals. it hallucinate, you know? we have already had instances where people were killed because of reliance on a i, and this was just released in november last year. exponential exponential... end of times? i would say all those science—fiction novels, we are living in science—fiction times and we need to put those guardrails in place. we don't have the wisdom of god is, we need to do better this,

protecting our people. thank ou so protecting our people. thank you so much _ protecting our people. thank you so much for— protecting our people. thank you so much forjoining - protecting our people. thank you so much forjoining us. l you so much forjoining us. thanks for having me, and i'm so sorry it sounds negative! but how will journalism survive? i have no idea within three years. even the big companies are going to feel it. in the us, the leader of a far—right group has been sentenced to 18 years in prison for his involvement in the attack on the capitol building in washington two years ago. stewart rhodes, the leader of the 0ath keepers, was convicted on charges of seditious conspiracy and other crimes. it marks the toughest penalty yet in connection with the assault in january 2021. more than 1,000 people have been arrested in connection with the riot. more than half have pled guilty to a variety of crimes. the judge said today that stewart rhodes presented an ongoing threat to the country. the biden administration has released the first ever national strategy to combat antisemitism. the plan pledges federal efforts to improve security forjewish communities and raise public awareness around the issue. it also calls on social media companies to do more to prevent

the spread of hate—speech. joining me to discuss is ted deutch, ceo of the american jewish committee. it's great to have you on the programme. why does the us need a national anti—semitism strategy right now? a national anti-semitism strategy right now? well, because _ strategy right now? well, because this _ strategy right now? well, because this is _ strategy right now? well, because this is a - strategy right now? well, because this is a really i because this is a really challenging moment of rising anti—semitism. as the plan points out, rising fear and anxiety... we are living in a moment where, because of the spread of anti—semitism on social media, because of the increase of anti—semitism on the streets, there has been violence, there is more concerned about security, our own report and research shows 40% of americans feel less secure living in america than they did just a year ago. the administration recognised the challenge of the moment. coming on the heels of what happened

at tree of life five years ago, the killing of worshippers simply for being in a synagogue. the rise of the far right. the challenge is on the far left as well. and they took action, and they deserve great credit for the report put out today. and it's very clear action plan that has a way forward. i action plan that has a way forward-— action plan that has a way forward. i, i, i, forward. i want to mention some other numbers _ forward. i want to mention some other numbers we _ forward. i want to mention some other numbers we came - forward. i want to mention some other numbers we came across. | the anti—defamation league found that in 2020, 85% of americans believe at least one antisemitic trope. the fbi director christopher wray said in 2022 americanjews accounted for 2.4% of the us population, but anti—semitism drove 63% of religiously motivated hate crimes. what has sparked this rise in anti—semitism? lytton, there are all kinds of things happening. the good news is 90% of americans, jewish and non—jewish, recognise anti—semitism as a problem. anti—semitism is a conspiracy theory. a conspiracy theory

that has been problematic for the jewish that has been problematic for thejewish community that has been problematic for the jewish community throughout history. at a time, at moments when there are challenges to institutions, lack of belief in institutions, lack of belief in institutions, when you see the kind of rhetoric and conspiracy theories that have spread all across the internet, whether it's what happened onjanuary the 6th or what happened in covid, ultimately the jewish community is at risk. that's why it's so important to speak out, like the administration has. what do you think the strategy will change? it's most important to recognise that anti—semitism doesn'tjust affect the jewish community, it affects everyone, it affects democracy as a whole. there were more than 100 concrete actions that the federal government in the us will take to combat anti—semitism, using a whole government approach. there were more than 100 actions call for, from and

local governments, from corporations and nonprofits and universities all across society. this is the first time we have ever seen a whole society approach that will bring together everyone across the country to combat this scourge of anti—semitism, that will protect the jewish community but will also help to protect all communities in our country. protect all communities in our count . , i, i, country. last question, we have 30 seconds. _ country. last question, we have 30 seconds, but _ country. last question, we have 30 seconds, but what _ country. last question, we have 30 seconds, but what would - country. last question, we have| 30 seconds, but what would you call on congress to do? congress has a lot it can do, from fully funding security, nonprofit security grant programme, to really taking a look at social media companies and making sure they are held accountable for algorithms that drive people to the kinds of anti—semitic hatred that have aids. congress has a really important role to make sure accountability is present throughout our community. —— anti—semitic hatred that is

pervasive. i know we look forward to working with members of congress to make sure they do their part in moving this action plans forward. speaking on the day _ action plans forward. speaking on the day the _ action plans forward. speaking on the day the biden _ on the day the biden administration released the first ever national strategy to combat anti—semitism, thank you so much forjoining us. combat anti-semitism, thank you so much forjoining us.— so much for “oining us. thank ou, so much for “oining us. thank you. its — so much for “oining us. thank you. its my— so much forjoining us. thank you, it's my pleasure. - so much forjoining us. thank you, it's my pleasure. that i so much forjoining us. thank you, it's my pleasure. that isj you, it's my pleasure. that is our programme, _ you, it's my pleasure. that is our programme, a _ you, it's my pleasure. that is our programme, a reminder. you, it's my pleasure. that is. our programme, a reminder of the update we bought you a little while earlier, with a deadline looming in the us to raise the debt ceiling, the new york times reporting that negotiators could be closing in on a deal. we know they have been working all week on this. the details have been yet to be finalised but there looks to be a compromise that would raise the debt limit for two years while cutting spending on everything but the military and veterans for the same period. we know the white house and the speaker of the house kevin mccarthy have both said they hope to get a deal in time

before the debt ceiling limit hits. that is our show, thank you so much for watching. i am sumi somaskanda in washington, stay with us. hello. you need a certain level of temperature to make clouds. and on thursday, that temperature was 17 degrees. from a blue sky, sunny start to the day across the yorkshire area, as we hit 17, we started to get these cumulus clouds. as the air started to rise, it hit a layer of warm air higher up in the earth's atmosphere and that cloud then started to spread out. and by the time we got to the early afternoon, it turned pretty cloudy and that kind of thing you can see happening here on the satellite picture from thursday, look how this area of cloud just expands through the course of the afternoon, showing you that because probably going to see a similar sort of thing happening on friday, as well. now, right now, quite a few patches of cloud still across areas of lincolnshire. otherwise, for most of us,

we've got clear skies and temperatures around seven to nine degrees celsius. now on friday, for many of us, it's going to be a sunny start to the day with those blue skies with us first thing in the morning, late morning, that's when we hit 17 degrees. that's when we start to see clouds develop. and i think probably parts of yorkshire again prone to seeing some of those clouds spreading across the skies. same too probably across parts of the north midlands, northwest scotland have a bit more cloud, a few more breaks for northern ireland. for most, it's a dry day with sunny spells and temperatures still into the low twenties and the warmer spots. it will feel pleasant if you're outside. into the weekend, we do have a cold front that's going to be running into our area of high pressure that will be affecting northern areas. so expect more in the way of cloud for scotland. a bit of patchy rain too for 0rkney, shetland, the western isles and the highlands too. and this air flowing into north scotland,

it's actually quite chilly, so temperatures just 12 degrees through the afternoon in lerwick on saturday. further south, more sunshine and if anything it's going to be a warmer day with more of us seeing temperatures into the low twenties, probably peaking at around 23 or 2a degrees. heading into sunday, the high pressure is still there. and again, it's a case of sunny spells coming and going with the cloud. the highest temperatures continue to be across more western areas. so south and east wales, the south west midlands, south west england, highs could hit around 23 or 2a degrees, but otherwise starting to turn just a little bit cooler across northern and eastern areas. that's the case as well for bank holiday monday. temperatures just down a few degrees, but still feeling warm in that strong may sunshine. that's your weather, bye for now.

with less than a week to the debt ceiling dealine, we sum up the mood in washington. and heading into the weekend, find out what's at stake for the runoff presidential election in turkey. hi there. welcome to asia business report with me, mariko 0i. and a very happy friday to all of you. and it will actually be an extended weekend in america with a bank holiday on monday, memorial day weekend, which traditionally marks the start of the summer season. many lawmakers will be away, even though the debt ceiling deadline of the 1st ofjune is just one week away. from new york, my colleague michelle fleury sums up the mood in washington.

with just one week left until treasury officials say