good morning, how are you? welcome to the nation's phone in. it will be a busy day on the roads and the phones. from 10 it's your chance to put your questions to chief constablejo shiner, national police chief's council lead for roads. she will tell you about her road strategy and what needs to change. you can tell her about your road strategy, and what needs to change. it's all over the front page, what gives you road rage? that is at ten

o'clock. but first, premature babies, your stories. this week the neonatal care bill was given the royal assent and will become law. it means parents with babies in neonatal care will soon be able to get more leave time from work. speaking to are you a parent of a child born prematurely? what is your story, what care did they need, how did you cope, what was it like and what will your employers like? what support did you get? your stories are coming right up. here is the news. inspectors considered shutting down a maternity unit in kent because of safety concerns. it follows a damning report on the william harvey hospital in ashford. the east kent hospitals trust said it acted immediately to make

improvements. the latest retail figures are out this morning — sales were up by 0.5 % in april after falling 1.2 % the previous month. it comes as the boss of sainsbury�*s has denied using inflation as a cover for making higher profits. simon roberts says he's seen no sign of so—called "greed—flation". the family of an 85—year—old british national say his disabled wife died of starvation in sudan during the recent fighting — after he was shot and injured by a sniper. they say the british embassy there left the couple to fend for themselves — the foreign office says it was too dangerous to provide support. and the bbc is auctioning off costumes and props used in this year's eurovision song contest. bidding on 60 items will start on tuesday. it's part of a drive to make the corporation more sustainable.

let's go straight tojosie anderson, the campaign policy manager at bliss. you work so hard and you helped pass the bill. welcome to the nation's phone in. how are you? good mornin: , nation's phone in. how are you? good morning. i'm — nation's phone in. how are you? good morning. i'm good. — nation's phone in. how are you? good morning, i'm good, thank _ nation's phone in. how are you? (emf. morning, i'm good, thank you. nation's phone in. how are you? good morning, i'm good, thank you. you i morning, i'm good, thank you. you must be pleased _ morning, i'm good, thank you. you must be pleased and you must be proud as well, it was given the royal assent. as i say, it will become law for a while. what will it mean to parents? what will it mean to mums and dads?— to mums and dads? yes, we are absolutely _ to mums and dads? yes, we are absolutely delighted _ to mums and dads? yes, we are absolutely delighted that - to mums and dads? yes, we are absolutely delighted that it - to mums and dads? yes, we are absolutely delighted that it has. absolutely delighted that it has achieved royal assent. this will make such a huge difference to families when their babies need hospital care. we know at the moment that about 70% of families that have a significant neonatal state, at least one parent has to return to work while their baby is still in hospital. normally, that is the dad or the parents taking paternity leave, who only gets a short a lot of time away from work. for mums, it

often means weeks or months of the maternity leave is spent by an incubator and not at home. they are often forced to return to work earlier than expected, and often their babies are not ready for childcare. so, this bill will help provide extra time, up to 12 weeks of paid leave for families provide extra time, up to 12 weeks of paid leave forfamilies in provide extra time, up to 12 weeks of paid leave for families in this situation, it really will be transformative. mil situation, it really will be transformative.— situation, it really will be transformative. �* . ., , transformative. all the challenges, i'm really excited _ transformative. all the challenges, i'm really excited to _ transformative. all the challenges, i'm really excited to hear _ transformative. all the challenges, i'm really excited to hear from - transformative. all the challenges, i i'm really excited to hear from mums i'm really excited to hearfrom mums and dads. all the difficulties, too. i'm sure we will get some inspirational stories. but what is it like in that neonatal period, not being able to bond, not being able to breast—feed, not being able to hold? heartbreaking, at the time? it's absolutely harrowing. we hear from families all the time he say that their lives are just turned upside down by neonatal admission.

for many families it's completely unexpected. for many, again, the world of neonatal is a complete unknown until you are thrust into it. like you say, there is not barrier between you and your baby. families also face a lot of additional barriers to be with their baby as much as they want to be. costs tend to increase, hospitals are far away from home. and all of this couples with a decrease immediately in income because of shifting to parental leave. all of this makes it much, much harderfor families to be involved in their baby's care. we know that is so important, for babies to have the very best short and long—term developmental outcomes. their parents need to be beside their sides. it is best for babies are best for the whole family, that they are able to be involved in care and decision—making for long periods of time, every single day. i decision-making for long periods of time, every single day.— time, every single day. i think these are _ time, every single day. i think these are your _ time, every single day. i think these are your figures, - time, every single day. i think these are your figures, josie, | time, every single day. i think| these are your figures, josie, i these are your figures, josie, i think they are bliss's figures, you

campaign on this and do incredible work. one in 13 babies born in this country premature, that is before 37 weeks, am i right in saying? yes. weeks, am i right in saying? yes, that is roughly — weeks, am i right in saying? yes, that is roughly how— weeks, am i right in saying? yes, that is roughly how many - weeks, am i right in saying? 1913 that is roughly how many babies are born preterm. that is roughly how many babies are born preterm-— born preterm. let's go with elizabeth — born preterm. let's go with elizabeth in _ born preterm. let's go with elizabeth in gloucester. - born preterm. let's go with elizabeth in gloucester. do | born preterm. let's go with . elizabeth in gloucester. do get born preterm. let's go with - elizabeth in gloucester. do get in touch. 08085 909693. text 85058. good morning, elizabeth. tell us about your experience and your baby. so, i was in hospitalfrom 3a weeks, with kind of complications. went into labour at 36 weeks. so, my son was born a month early. but even though they kind of class 37 weeks as full term, he was quite poorly, so he spent time in the intensive care unit. he was in there for a few days and then came out to the kind of lower dependency unit. he was in neonatalfor of lower dependency unit. he was in neonatal for two of lower dependency unit. he was in

neonatalfor two weeks. i managed of lower dependency unit. he was in neonatal for two weeks. i managed to stay in hospital the whole time. but my husband was kind of coming in and out, and getting stuff from home, looking after my daughter, looking after the house, trying to sort everything out for when we returned home, because obviously it was all really unexpected. that is what happened to us. we really unexpected. that is what happened to us.— really unexpected. that is what happened to us. we have got your bab , if happened to us. we have got your baby. if peeple — happened to us. we have got your baby, if people are _ happened to us. we have got your baby, if people are watching, - happened to us. we have got your baby, if people are watching, on l happened to us. we have got your. baby, if people are watching, on the screen, did you say your baby's name? . screen, did you say your baby's name?- what _ screen, did you say your baby's name?- what was - screen, did you say your baby's name?- what was it - screen, did you say your baby's name?- what was it like j screen, did you say your baby's i name?- what was it like for name? laurie. what was it like for ou and name? laurie. what was it like for you and your _ name? laurie. what was it like for you and your husband? _ name? laurie. what was it like for you and your husband? he - name? laurie. what was it like for you and your husband? he was - you and your husband? he was visiting on a frequent basis. what was going on in your minds throughout all of this? sorry, darlin: , throughout all of this? sorry, darling. i _ throughout all of this? sorry, darling. i am _ throughout all of this? sorry, darling, i am on _ throughout all of this? sorry, darling, i am on the - throughout all of this? sorry, darling, i am on the phone. | throughout all of this? sorry, - darling, i am on the phone. quite a lot to contend _ darling, i am on the phone. quite a

lot to contend with. _ darling, i am on the phone. quite a lot to contend with. yes, _ darling, i am on the phone. quite a lot to contend with. yes, it - darling, i am on the phone. quite a lot to contend with. yes, it was - lot to contend with. yes, it was 'ust lot to contend with. yes, it was just crazy. _ lot to contend with. yes, it was just crazy, because _ lot to contend with. yes, it was just crazy, because everything. lot to contend with. yes, it was | just crazy, because everything is unexpected and everything is up in the air, for the first few days we didn't know if things were going to be ok. he was trying to hold everything together... sorry, my daughter is talking to me. it’s everything together... sorry, my daughter is talking to me. it's the erfect daughter is talking to me. it's the perfect soundtrack _ daughter is talking to me. it's the perfect soundtrack to _ daughter is talking to me. it's the perfect soundtrack to what - daughter is talking to me. it's the perfect soundtrack to what you i daughter is talking to me. it's the | perfect soundtrack to what you are saying, so it's all good. he perfect soundtrack to what you are saying, so it's all good.— saying, so it's all good. he is holdin: saying, so it's all good. he is holding everything _ saying, so it's all good. he is holding everything together. | saying, so it's all good. he: 3 holding everything together. once we got home, we had a chat and realised that he hadn't bonded at all. you know, emotionally. it was still quite an abstract concept, because the first few days it was laurie in a little box, we couldn't even hold him. i was trying to establish breast—feeding. that was really difficult because he was so poorly. but my husband had a different experience to me, he was not there. so he wasn't able to help with any of that. he was trying to come in

every day and visit us, but there was only so much he could do. he at least, or i suppose we both did, missed out on the first few weeks of bonding. and with laurie coming early as well, it meant that pay went down straightaway. missing out on the bonding. _ went down straightaway. missing out on the bonding, not _ went down straightaway. missing out on the bonding, not being _ went down straightaway. missing out on the bonding, not being able i went down straightaway. missing out on the bonding, not being able to i on the bonding, not being able to bond, then you have feelings of guilt, haven't you?— bond, then you have feelings of guilt, haven't you? absolutely, i think what _ guilt, haven't you? absolutely, i think what has _ guilt, haven't you? absolutely, i think what has been _ guilt, haven't you? absolutely, i think what has been said - guilt, haven't you? absolutely, i i think what has been said resonates with what_ think what has been said resonates with what we hear all the time, particularly as you say around going back to _ particularly as you say around going back to work. parents really need each _ back to work. parents really need each other. — back to work. parents really need each other, parents need a partner to he _ each other, parents need a partner to be with — each other, parents need a partner to be with them. it places a huge burden— to be with them. it places a huge burden on— to be with them. it places a huge burden on families if you have one parent— burden on families if you have one parent who — burden on families if you have one parent who can be on the unit and has to— parent who can be on the unit and has to hear— parent who can be on the unit and has to hear all of the difficult news — has to hear all of the difficult news and relate to their partner, who is— news and relate to their partner, who is somewhat detached and disconnected from it. but wants to be there — disconnected from it. but wants to be there it — disconnected from it. but wants to be there. it is a hugely challenging

time _ be there. it is a hugely challenging time. hsle— be there. it is a hugely challenging time. ~ ., be there. it is a hugely challenging time. ~ . ., ., be there. it is a hugely challenging time. . . ., ., ., ., time. we have natasha in nuneaton. good morning- _ time. we have natasha in nuneaton. good morning. good _ time. we have natasha in nuneaton. good morning. good morning, i time. we have natasha in nuneaton. good morning. good morning, howl time. we have natasha in nuneaton. l good morning. good morning, how are ou? i am good morning. good morning, how are you? i am fine. — good morning. good morning, how are you? i am fine, what _ good morning. good morning, how are you? i am fine, what was _ good morning. good morning, how are you? i am fine, what was it _ good morning. good morning, how are you? i am fine, what was it like? i you? i am fine, what was it like? tell is about _ you? i am fine, what was it like? tell is about your _ you? i am fine, what was it like? tell is about your baby _ you? i am fine, what was it like? tell is about your baby and i you? i am fine, what was it like? tell is about your baby and your. tell is about your baby and your experience. tell is about your baby and your exoerience-_ tell is about your baby and your exerience. �* ,,., , , experience. absolutely terrifying! you are thrown _ experience. absolutely terrifying! you are thrown into _ experience. absolutely terrifying! you are thrown into a _ experience. absolutely terrifying! you are thrown into a world i experience. absolutely terrifying! | you are thrown into a world where you dou'l— you are thrown into a world where you don't know _ you are thrown into a world where you don't know what _ you are thrown into a world where you don't know what is _ you are thrown into a world where| you don't know what is happening. everything — you don't know what is happening. everything is — you don't know what is happening. everything is unexpected. - you don't know what is happening. everything is unexpected. yes, i everything is unexpected. yes, hello — everything is unexpected. yes, hello. talking. _ everything is unexpected. yes, hello. talking. i'm“— everything is unexpected. yes, hello. talking.— everything is unexpected. yes, hello. talking. i'm loving these sounds in _ hello. talking. i'm loving these sounds in the _ hello. talking. i'm loving these sounds in the background. i hello. talking. i'm loving these sounds in the background. she| hello. talking. i'm loving these i sounds in the background. she came very quickly — sounds in the background. she came very quickly and _ sounds in the background. she came very quickly and very _ sounds in the background. she came very quickly and very unexpectedly l very quickly and very unexpectedly at 25 weeks— very quickly and very unexpectedly at 25 weeks gestation. _ very quickly and very unexpectedly at 25 weeks gestation. so, - very quickly and very unexpectedly at 25 weeks gestation. so, i - very quickly and very unexpectedly at 25 weeks gestation. so, i had i very quickly and very unexpectedlyj at 25 weeks gestation. so, i had to have _ at 25 weeks gestation. so, i had to have an _ at 25 weeks gestation. so, i had to have an emergency— at 25 weeks gestation. so, i had to have an emergency cesarean, i at 25 weeks gestation. so, i had to have an emergency cesarean, and i have an emergency cesarean, and when i have an emergency cesarean, and when i came _ have an emergency cesarean, and when i came to. _ have an emergency cesarean, and when i came to. obviously— have an emergency cesarean, and when i came to, obviously i _ have an emergency cesarean, and when i came to, obviously i wasn't _ i came to, obviously i wasn't pregnant— i came to, obviously i wasn't pregnant any— i came to, obviously i wasn't pregnant any more, - i came to, obviously i wasn't pregnant any more, my i i came to, obviously i wasn'tj pregnant any more, my baby i came to, obviously i wasn't i pregnant any more, my baby was nowhere — pregnant any more, my baby was nowhere and _ pregnant any more, my baby was nowhere. and i— pregnant any more, my baby was nowhere. and i can't _ pregnant any more, my baby was nowhere. and i can't explain i pregnant any more, my baby was nowhere. and i can't explain the| nowhere. and i can't explain the feeling _ nowhere. and i can't explain the feeling that _ nowhere. and i can't explain the feeling that came _ nowhere. and i can't explain the feeling that came over— nowhere. and i can't explain the feeling that came over me, i nowhere. and i can't explain the l feeling that came over me, really. you know. — feeling that came over me, really. you know. it's _ feeling that came over me, really. you know, it's not _ feeling that came over me, really. you know, it's not how— feeling that came over me, really. you know, it's not how it - feeling that came over me, really.

you know, it's not how it normallyj you know, it's not how it normally happens — you know, it's not how it normally happens. i've _ you know, it's not how it normally happens. i've never— you know, it's not how it normally happens. i've never had _ you know, it's not how it normally happens. i've never had anybody i happens. i've never had anybody close _ happens. i've never had anybody close to — happens. i've never had anybody close to me _ happens. i've never had anybody close to me that _ happens. i've never had anybody close to me that ever— happens. i've never had anybody close to me that ever had - happens. i've never had anybody close to me that ever had a i close to me that ever had a premature _ close to me that ever had a premature baby. _ close to me that ever had a premature baby.— close to me that ever had a premature baby. suddenly it is, like, premature baby. suddenly it is, like. what _ premature baby. suddenly it is, like. what is — premature baby. suddenly it is, like, what is this _ premature baby. suddenly it is, like, what is this all— premature baby. suddenly it is, like, what is this all about? i premature baby. suddenly it is, | like, what is this all about? this wasn't the plan. i like, what is this all about? this wasn't the plan.— like, what is this all about? this wasn't the plan. i had two boys as well, for wasn't the plan. i had two boys as well. for not _ wasn't the plan. i had two boys as well, for not full-term. _ wasn't the plan. i had two boys as well, for not full-term. so - wasn't the plan. i had two boys as well, for not full-term. so for i wasn't the plan. i had two boys as well, for not full-term. so for my | well, for not full—term. so for my daughter— well, for not full—term. so for my daughter to — well, for not full—term. so for my daughter to arrive _ well, for not full—term. so for my daughter to arrive as _ well, for not full—term. so for my daughter to arrive as she - well, for not full—term. so for my daughter to arrive as she did i well, for not full—term. so for my daughter to arrive as she did a i daughter to arrive as she did a huge shock _ daughter to arrive as she did a huge shock -- _ daughter to arrive as she did a huge shock -- they— daughter to arrive as she did a huge shock. —— they were _ daughter to arrive as she did a huge shock. —— they were born— daughter to arrive as she did a huge shock. —— they were born at - shock. —— they were born at full term _ shock. —— they were born at full term she — shock. —— they were born at full term she was— shock. —— they were born at full term. she was about _ shock. —— they were born at full term. she was about three i shock. —— they were born at full term. she was about three andi shock. —— they were born at fulll term. she was about three and a shock. —— they were born at full- term. she was about three and a half hours _ term. she was about three and a half hours old _ term. she was about three and a half hours old before _ term. she was about three and a half hours old before i— term. she was about three and a half hours old before i could _ term. she was about three and a half hours old before i could see - term. she was about three and a half hours old before i could see her- hours old before i could see her because — hours old before i could see her because they _ hours old before i could see her because they were _ hours old before i could see her because they were working i hours old before i could see her because they were working on i hours old before i could see her. because they were working on her to save her_ because they were working on her to save her life — because they were working on her to save her life. once _ because they were working on her to save her life. once they— because they were working on her to save her life. once they stabilised i save her life. once they stabilised her and _ save her life. once they stabilised her and i— save her life. once they stabilised her and i was _ save her life. once they stabilised her and i was allowed _ save her life. once they stabilised her and i was allowed in, - save her life. once they stabilised her and i was allowed in, nothingl her and i was allowed in, nothing could _ her and i was allowed in, nothing could have — her and i was allowed in, nothing could have prepared _ her and i was allowed in, nothing could have prepared me - her and i was allowed in, nothing could have prepared me for- her and i was allowed in, nothing could have prepared me for thatl her and i was allowed in, nothing i could have prepared me for that site and that— could have prepared me for that site and that feeling, _ could have prepared me for that site and that feeling, seeing _ could have prepared me for that site and that feeling, seeing her- could have prepared me for that site and that feeling, seeing her with i and that feeling, seeing her with all of— and that feeling, seeing her with all of these — and that feeling, seeing her with all of these wires, _ and that feeling, seeing her with all of these wires, everything i all of these wires, everything coming — all of these wires, everything coming out _ all of these wires, everything coming out and _ all of these wires, everything coming out and the _ all of these wires, everything coming out and the beeping, | all of these wires, everything i coming out and the beeping, the noises _ coming out and the beeping, the noises it— coming out and the beeping, the noises. it literally _ coming out and the beeping, the noises. it literally is _ coming out and the beeping, the noises. it literally is terrifying. . noises. it literally is terrifying. the nurses. _ noises. it literally is terrifying. the nurses, the _ noises. it literally is terrifying. the nurses, the doctors, - noises. it literally is terrifying. the nurses, the doctors, theyl noises. it literally is terrifying. i the nurses, the doctors, they are 'ust the nurses, the doctors, they are just incredible. _ the nurses, the doctors, they are just incredible. i— the nurses, the doctors, they are just incredible. i can't— the nurses, the doctors, they are just incredible. i can't emphasise| just incredible. i can't emphasise that enough _ just incredible. i can't emphasise that enough. every _ just incredible. i can't emphasise that enough. every step - just incredible. ican't emphasise that enough. every step of- just incredible. i can't emphasise that enough. every step of the i just incredible. i can't emphasise i that enough. every step of the way, they talk— that enough. every step of the way, they talk you — that enough. every step of the way, they talk you through _ that enough. every step of the way, they talk you through exactly - that enough. every step of the way, they talk you through exactly what i they talk you through exactly what is happening _

they talk you through exactly what is happening. they— they talk you through exactly what is happening. they answer- they talk you through exactly what is happening. they answer every l is happening. they answer every question— is happening. they answer every question that _ is happening. they answer every question that you _ is happening. they answer every question that you have, - is happening. they answer every question that you have, and i is happening. they answer every i question that you have, and reassure you. question that you have, and reassure you so _ question that you have, and reassure you so that— question that you have, and reassure you. so that you _ question that you have, and reassure you. so that you have _ question that you have, and reassure you. so that you have all— question that you have, and reassure you. so that you have all of- question that you have, and reassure you. so that you have all of the - you. so that you have all of the knowledge _ you. so that you have all of the knowledge, and _ you. so that you have all of the knowledge, and like _ you. so that you have all of the knowledge, and like the - you. so that you have all of the knowledge, and like the otherl you. so that you have all of the i knowledge, and like the other lady, i knowledge, and like the other lady, i didn't— knowledge, and like the other lady, ididn't catch — knowledge, and like the other lady, i didn't catch her— knowledge, and like the other lady, i didn't catch her name, _ knowledge, and like the other lady, i didn't catch her name, you - knowledge, and like the other lady, i didn't catch her name, you didn't i ididn't catch her name, you didn't know— ididn't catch her name, you didn't know what— ididn't catch her name, you didn't know what was— i didn't catch her name, you didn't know what was happening - ididn't catch her name, you didn't know what was happening day- i didn't catch her name, you didn't i know what was happening day today. elizabeth. _ know what was happening day today. elizabeth, sorry. _ know what was happening day today. elizabeth, sorry. you _ know what was happening day today. elizabeth, sorry. you spend - know what was happening day today. elizabeth, sorry. you spend so - know what was happening day today. elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much| elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time. _ elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time you _ elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time you come _ elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time, you come away— elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time, you come away and _ elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time, you come away and it - elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time, you come away and it is - elizabeth, sorry. you spend so much time, you come away and it is that. time, you come away and it is that fear. _ time, you come away and it is that fear. is _ time, you come away and it is that fear. is she — time, you come away and it is that fear. is she going _ time, you come away and it is that fear, is she going to— time, you come away and it is that fear, is she going to be _ time, you come away and it is that fear, is she going to be ok - time, you come away and it is that fear, is she going to be ok while l time, you come away and it is that fear, is she going to be ok while i| fear, is she going to be ok while i am not _ fear, is she going to be ok while i am not there _ fear, is she going to be ok while i am not there with _ fear, is she going to be ok while i am not there with her? _ fear, is she going to be ok while i am not there with her? is- fear, is she going to be ok while i| am not there with her? is anything going _ am not there with her? is anything going to _ am not there with her? is anything going to happen— am not there with her? is anything going to happen overnight? - am not there with her? is anything going to happen overnight? what. am not there with her? is anythingl going to happen overnight? what if am not there with her? is anything l going to happen overnight? what if i -et going to happen overnight? what if i get there _ going to happen overnight? what if i get there in— going to happen overnight? what if i get there in the _ going to happen overnight? what if i get there in the morning _ going to happen overnight? what if i get there in the morning and - going to happen overnight? what if i get there in the morning and she... i get there in the morning and she... it get there in the morning and she... it really— get there in the morning and she... it really is _ get there in the morning and she... it really is terrifying. _ get there in the morning and she... it really is terrifying. i _ get there in the morning and she... it really is terrifying. i didn't- it really is terrifying. i didn't realise — it really is terrifying. i didn't realise the _ it really is terrifying. i didn't realise the statistics. - it really is terrifying. i didn't realise the statistics. one i it really is terrifying. i didn't realise the statistics. one in it really is terrifying. i didn't- realise the statistics. one in ten babies— realise the statistics. one in ten babies are — realise the statistics. one in ten babies are born _ realise the statistics. one in ten babies are born prematurely. ii realise the statistics. one in ten. babies are born prematurely. i had no idea. _ babies are born prematurely. i had no idea, absolutely— babies are born prematurely. i had no idea, absolutely no _ babies are born prematurely. i had no idea, absolutely no idea. - babies are born prematurely. i had no idea, absolutely no idea. it- babies are born prematurely. i had no idea, absolutely no idea. it is. no idea, absolutely no idea. it is more than _ no idea, absolutely no idea. it is more than that, _ no idea, absolutely no idea. it is more than that, i _ no idea, absolutely no idea. more than that, i think. it no idea, absolutely no idea. iii. ii: more than that, i think. it is no idea, absolutely no idea.- more than that, i think. it is round about that. it is between one in 13, and one in ten. something like seven or 8%. and one in ten. something like seven or8%. it's and one in ten. something like seven or 8%. it's very frequent. it completely resonates with me. i've

not been through this, but i've been through two emergency cesarean is... well, i haven't had two emergency cesarean is, i'm not making that bold claim, but you know what i mean. ., i bold claim, but you know what i mean-_ i was i bold claim, but you know what i i mean._ i was there, bold claim, but you know what i - mean._ i was there, i mean. you were there? i was there, i know that feeling _ mean. you were there? i was there, i know that feeling of _ mean. you were there? i was there, i know that feeling of what _ mean. you were there? i was there, i know that feeling of what the - mean. you were there? i was there, i know that feeling of what the hell, i know that feeling of what the hell, what is this all about? extended to your experience as well. what you said, it gave me a chill, all of the beeping and the equipment, the context of it all. flan beeping and the equipment, the context of it all.— beeping and the equipment, the context of it all. can i add to what natasha said? _ context of it all. can i add to what natasha said? we _ context of it all. can i add to what natasha said? we were _ context of it all. can i add to what natasha said? we were quite - context of it all. can i add to what l natasha said? we were quite lucky, natasha, 25 weeks is very early, we were quite lucky in that we were out in a couple of weeks and i was able to stay with laurie for the whole time in hospital. but i met so many families there, natasha will tell you, you bond with people while you are there. all of these people are going to the same experience. we met lots of families, some of them whose

babies were as little as natasha's. they said things like, we are just making this our dayjob to come in and visit our baby every day. it's not a normal experience. they would get up without a baby in the morning, and then get dressed, and come to hospital. it was like a job, rather than having a newborn. it's not a normal experience will stop especially i met people who it was their first born, they didn't get to experience that kind of baby bubble, if you like, bringing home your tiny thing and looking after it. you have strangers looking after your baby. and they are amazing in neonatal, they are wonderful people and they should be paid more. that is a side issue! but you have strangers looking after your baby and you ask permission, if you can kind of change them, change the nappies and things, through the little armholes in the incubating box. it's a really strange thing. we were lucky, but

there were families that spent two three months visiting their baby in hospital, and not getting a chance to have that normal, paternal leave. it's a really long time to take out of your maternity, or out of your paternal leave, two three months, when most people only take nine months because we don't get paid after that. this bill will make a big difference to lots of people. fix, big difference to lots of people. a huge, huge difference. me, personally. _ huge, huge difference. me, personally, our— huge, huge difference. me, personally, our entire - huge, huge difference. me, i personally, our entire hospital stay. — personally, our entire hospital stay. between _ personally, our entire hospital stay, between being _ personally, our entire hospital stay, between being in- personally, our entire hospital stay, between being in the - personally, our entire hospital- stay, between being in the queue, to being _ stay, between being in the queue, to being in_ stay, between being in the queue, to being in neonatal— stay, between being in the queue, to being in neonatal care, _ stay, between being in the queue, to being in neonatal care, my— stay, between being in the queue, to being in neonatal care, my routine, i being in neonatal care, my routine, like you _ being in neonatal care, my routine, like you said. — being in neonatal care, my routine, like you said, elizabeth, _ being in neonatal care, my routine, like you said, elizabeth, i'd - being in neonatal care, my routine, like you said, elizabeth, i'd get- like you said, elizabeth, i'd get up, like you said, elizabeth, i'd get up. i'd — like you said, elizabeth, i'd get up. i'd get _ like you said, elizabeth, i'd get op. i'd get my— like you said, elizabeth, i'd get op. i'd get my two— like you said, elizabeth, i'd get up, i'd get my two boy- like you said, elizabeth, i'd get up, i'd get my two boy is - like you said, elizabeth, i'd get up, i'd get my two boy is readyj like you said, elizabeth, i'd get. up, i'd get my two boy is ready for school— up, i'd get my two boy is ready for school and — up, i'd get my two boy is ready for school and pre—school, _ up, i'd get my two boy is ready for school and pre—school, drop - up, i'd get my two boy is ready for school and pre—school, drop themj up, i'd get my two boy is ready for. school and pre—school, drop them off and go _ school and pre—school, drop them off and go straight — school and pre—school, drop them off and go straight over— school and pre—school, drop them off and go straight over to _ school and pre—school, drop them off and go straight over to the _ and go straight over to the hospital _ and go straight over to the hospital l'd _ and go straight over to the hospital. i'd be _ and go straight over to the hospital. i'd be there - and go straight over to the hospital. i'd be there all. and go straight over to the . hospital. i'd be there all day. somebody— hospital. i'd be there all day. somebody else _ hospital. i'd be there all day. somebody else in _ hospital. i'd be there all day. somebody else in the - hospital. i'd be there all day. i somebody else in the afternoon hospital. i'd be there all day. - somebody else in the afternoon for me. somebody else in the afternoon for me l'd _ somebody else in the afternoon for me l'd get — somebody else in the afternoon for me l'd get home, _ somebody else in the afternoon for

me. i'd get home, do— somebody else in the afternoon for me. i'd get home, do dinner, - somebody else in the afternoon for me. i'd get home, do dinner, bathl me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath and bed. _ me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath and bed. and— me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath and bed, and nine— me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath and bed, and nine times— me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath and bed, and nine times out - me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath and bed, and nine times out of- me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath| and bed, and nine times out of ten me. i'd get home, do dinner, bath i and bed, and nine times out of ten i would _ and bed, and nine times out of ten i would go _ and bed, and nine times out of ten i would go back _ and bed, and nine times out of ten i would go back i_ and bed, and nine times out of ten i would go back. i wouldn't _ and bed, and nine times out of ten i would go back. i wouldn't come - and bed, and nine times out of ten i i would go back. i wouldn't come home until ll _ would go back. i wouldn't come home until ll o'clock— would go back. i wouldn't come home until 11 o'clock midnight, _ would go back. i wouldn't come home until 11 o'clock midnight, try— would go back. i wouldn't come home until 11 o'clock midnight, try to - until 11 o'clock midnight, try to sleep — until 11 o'clock midnight, try to sleep for— until 11 o'clock midnight, try to sleep for a _ until 11 o'clock midnight, try to sleep for a couple _ until 11 o'clock midnight, try to sleep for a couple of _ until 11 o'clock midnight, try to sleep for a couple of hours - until 11 o'clock midnight, try to| sleep for a couple of hours and until 11 o'clock midnight, try to - sleep for a couple of hours and get up sleep for a couple of hours and get up and _ sleep for a couple of hours and get up and do — sleep for a couple of hours and get up and do it— sleep for a couple of hours and get up and do it all— sleep for a couple of hours and get up and do it all again _ sleep for a couple of hours and get up and do it all again the _ sleep for a couple of hours and get up and do it all again the next - sleep for a couple of hours and get up and do it all again the next day. i up and do it all again the next day. i look— up and do it all again the next day. i look ltack— up and do it all again the next day. i look back and _ up and do it all again the next day. i look back and think, _ up and do it all again the next day. i look back and think, how- up and do it all again the next day. i look back and think, how did - up and do it all again the next day. i look back and think, how did i- up and do it all again the next day. i look back and think, how did i do| i look back and think, how did i do that? _ i look back and think, how did i do that? ., , the i look back and think, how did i do that?_ the baby - i look back and think, how did i do | that?_ the baby bubble that? that is wild. the baby bubble ou were that? that is wild. the baby bubble you were referring _ that? that is wild. the baby bubble you were referring to, _ that? that is wild. the baby bubble you were referring to, baby - that? that is wild. the baby bubble you were referring to, baby bubble| you were referring to, baby bubble is literally— you were referring to, baby bubble is literally changing _ you were referring to, baby bubble is literally changing nappies - you were referring to, baby bubble is literally changing nappies to - is literally changing nappies to the incubator, — is literally changing nappies to the incubator, during _ is literally changing nappies to the incubator, during the _ is literally changing nappies to the incubator, during the milk- is literally changing nappies to the incubator, during the milk feed . is literally changing nappies to the incubator, during the milk feed to| incubator, during the milk feed to do the _ incubator, during the milk feed to do the other— incubator, during the milk feed to do the other tube, _ incubator, during the milk feed to do the other tube, all— incubator, during the milk feed to do the other tube, all of - incubator, during the milk feed to do the other tube, all of which - incubator, during the milk feed to| do the other tube, all of which you have _ do the other tube, all of which you have to have — do the other tube, all of which you have to have training _ do the other tube, all of which you have to have training on, - do the other tube, all of which you have to have training on, becausel do the other tube, all of which you| have to have training on, because i didn't— have to have training on, because i didn't know— have to have training on, because i didn't know how— have to have training on, because i didn't know how to _ have to have training on, because i didn't know how to tube _ have to have training on, because i didn't know how to tube feed - have to have training on, because i didn't know how to tube feed a - have to have training on, because i. didn't know how to tube feed a baby. it's didn't know how to tube feed a baby. it's really— didn't know how to tube feed a baby. it's really terrifying. _ didn't know how to tube feed a baby. it's really terrifying. it _ didn't know how to tube feed a baby. it's really terrifying. [it is. _ didn't know how to tube feed a baby. it's really terrifying.— it's really terrifying. it is. we still have _ it's really terrifying. it is. we still have a _ it's really terrifying. it is. we still have a lot _ it's really terrifying. it is. we still have a lot of _ it's really terrifying. it is. we still have a lot of hospital- still have a lot of hospital appointments, _ still have a lot of hospital appointments, she - still have a lot of hospital appointments, she has. still have a lot of hospital- appointments, she has some still have a lot of hospital— appointments, she has some issues, but whenever — appointments, she has some issues, but whenever i— appointments, she has some issues, but whenever i go _ appointments, she has some issues, but whenever i go back _ appointments, she has some issues, but whenever i go back there, - appointments, she has some issues, but whenever i go back there, it - but whenever i go back there, it feels _ but whenever i go back there, it feels like — but whenever i go back there, it feels like home, _ but whenever i go back there, it feels like home, because - but whenever i go back there, it feels like home, because the i but whenever i go back there, it. feels like home, because the staff, i feels like home, because the staff, l know— feels like home, because the staff, i know them — feels like home, because the staff, i know them all— feels like home, because the staff, i know them all so _ feels like home, because the staff, i know them all so well— feels like home, because the staff, i know them all so well and - feels like home, because the staff, i know them all so well and they i i know them all so well and they helped _ i know them all so well and they helped me — i know them all so well and they helped me through _ i know them all so well and they helped me through a _ i know them all so well and they helped me through a very, - i know them all so well and they helped me through a very, veryl helped me through a very, very traumatic— helped me through a very, very traumatic time _ helped me through a very, very traumatic time in _ helped me through a very, very traumatic time in my— helped me through a very, very traumatic time in my life. - helped me through a very, very traumatic time in my life. they| helped me through a very, very- traumatic time in my life. they went through— traumatic time in my life. they went through all— traumatic time in my life. they went through all of— traumatic time in my life. they went through all of those _ traumatic time in my life. they went through all of those emotions - traumatic time in my life. they went through all of those emotions with l through all of those emotions with me together _ through all of those emotions with me together. it's _ through all of those emotions with me together. it's strange, -

through all of those emotions with me together. it's strange, most. me together. it's strange, most people _ me together. it's strange, most people hate — me together. it's strange, most people hate hospitals, - me together. it's strange, most people hate hospitals, but- me together. it's strange, most people hate hospitals, but i- people hate hospitals, but i actually— people hate hospitals, but i actually really _ people hate hospitals, but i actually really enjoy- people hate hospitals, but i actually really enjoy going i people hate hospitals, but i. actually really enjoy going over there — actually really enjoy going over there l— actually really en'oy going over there. ~ ., ., , ., ., there. i know what you mean, there is a comfort — there. i know what you mean, there is a comfort in _ there. i know what you mean, there is a comfort in it. _ there. i know what you mean, there is a comfort in it. they _ is a comfort in it. they are therefore emotional support as well. they are, i'm getting emotional now. it's they are, i'm getting emotional now. it's very— they are, i'm getting emotional now. it's very hard — they are, i'm getting emotional now. it's very hard to — they are, i'm getting emotional now. it's very hard to put _ they are, i'm getting emotional now. it's very hard to put it _ they are, i'm getting emotional now. it's very hard to put it into _ it's very hard to put it into words, no matter— it's very hard to put it into words, no matter how _ it's very hard to put it into words, no matter how long _ it's very hard to put it into words, no matter how long you _ it's very hard to put it into words, no matter how long you stay - it's very hard to put it into words, no matter how long you stay with| no matter how long you stay with them, _ no matter how long you stay with them, whether— no matter how long you stay with them, whether you _ no matter how long you stay with them, whether you are _ no matter how long you stay with them, whether you are there - no matter how long you stay with them, whether you are there fori no matter how long you stay with . them, whether you are there for one week— them, whether you are there for one week or— them, whether you are there for one week or 15_ them, whether you are there for one week or 15 weeks, _ them, whether you are there for one week or 15 weeks, in _ them, whether you are there for one week or 15 weeks, in my— them, whether you are there for one week or 15 weeks, in my case, - them, whether you are there for one week or 15 weeks, in my case, it - week or 15 weeks, in my case, it is 'ust week or 15 weeks, in my case, it is just as _ week or 15 weeks, in my case, it is just as terrifying _ week or 15 weeks, in my case, it is just as terrifying. you _ week or 15 weeks, in my case, it is just as terrifying-— just as terrifying. you don't know an hinr just as terrifying. you don't know anything about — just as terrifying. you don't know anything about it, _ just as terrifying. you don't know anything about it, it's _ just as terrifying. you don't know anything about it, it's a - just as terrifying. you don't know. anything about it, it's a completely different world. you said you had to make your older boys, i have a four—year—old daughter. we were in and out with and few hours when we had here. you know, she came at 7.30 in the morning and we were home for tea. you don't know anything about this world until you actually experience it. it's only really people that are there and have been through that same thing, going through that same thing, going through the same thing. personally,

ou're through the same thing. personally, you're probably _ through the same thing. personally, you're probably the _ through the same thing. personally, you're probably the same, _ through the same thing. personally, you're probably the same, i - through the same thing. personally, you're probably the same, i bonded | you're probably the same, i bonded with a _ you're probably the same, i bonded with a few— you're probably the same, i bonded with a few close _ you're probably the same, i bonded with a few close people _ you're probably the same, i bonded with a few close people that - you're probably the same, i bonded with a few close people that i- with a few close people that i am still close — with a few close people that i am still close with _ with a few close people that i am still close with now. _ with a few close people that i am still close with now. it's - with a few close people that i am still close with now. it's amazing| still close with now. it's amazing that we — still close with now. it's amazing that we have _ still close with now. it's amazing that we have created _ still close with now. it's amazing that we have created this - that we have created this friendship, _ that we have created this friendship, through - that we have created this friendship, through not l that we have created this . friendship, through not ideal circumstances. _ friendship, through not ideal circumstances. now- friendship, through not ideal circumstances. now the - friendship, through not ideal. circumstances. now the people friendship, through not ideal- circumstances. now the people that we treasure — circumstances. now the people that we treasure as — circumstances. now the people that we treasure as friends _ circumstances. now the people that we treasure as friends for— circumstances. now the people that we treasure as friends for life. - we treasure as friends for life. that— we treasure as friends for life. that is— we treasure as friends for life. that is comforting _ we treasure as friends for life. that is comforting as - we treasure as friends for life. that is comforting as well. - we treasure as friends for life. that is comforting as well. it. we treasure as friends for life. | that is comforting as well. it is we treasure as friends for life. that is comforting as well. it is so interesting _ that is comforting as well. it is so interesting hearing, _ that is comforting as well. it is so interesting hearing, and - that is comforting as well. it is so interesting hearing, and i- that is comforting as well. it is so interesting hearing, and i think. that is comforting as well. it is so interesting hearing, and i think it| interesting hearing, and i think it is important for people to hear about this world of yours. i would love you both to speak to nick in yeovil. good morning, sir. goad yeovil. good morning, sir. good morning. _ yeovil. good morning, sir. good morning. how— yeovil. good morning, sir. good morning, how are _ yeovil. good morning, sir. good morning, how are you? - yeovil. good morning, sir. good morning, how are you? i'm - yeovil. good morning, sir. good morning, how are you? i'm veryj yeovil. good morning, sir. good - morning, how are you? i'm very well, in findin: morning, how are you? i'm very well, in finding this — morning, how are you? i'm very well, in finding this moving, _ morning, how are you? i'm very well, in finding this moving, important - in finding this moving, important and absolutely fascinating. i am loving this, and i am so moved by the sense of community that you will have. i'm sure you feel that as

well, feel very much a part of something?— something? yes, again, 'ust listenin: something? yes, again, 'ust listening to i something? yes, again, 'ust listening to the i something? yes, again, 'ust listening to the otherfi something? yes, again, just listening to the other ladies| listening to the other ladies speaking there, the sense of community, the people you meet and id community, the people you meet and -o in community, the people you meet and go in and _ community, the people you meet and go in and out, through the hospitals, with all sorts of different problems that neonatal nurses— different problems that neonatal nurses are just... it's heartbreaking, seeing what they do, day in. _ heartbreaking, seeing what they do, day in. day— heartbreaking, seeing what they do, day in, day out. the passion that they— day in, day out. the passion that they have — day in, day out. the passion that they have for these babies that are seriously, — they have for these babies that are seriously, seriously poorly. you don't _ seriously, seriously poorly. you don't know _ seriously, seriously poorly. you don't know what is going to happen, when _ don't know what is going to happen, when it— don't know what is going to happen, when it is— don't know what is going to happen, when it is going to happen, if something is going to happen. the emotions — something is going to happen. the emotions that you go through with things. _ emotions that you go through with things. a _ emotions that you go through with things, a bit of good news, then two bits of— things, a bit of good news, then two bits of bad _ things, a bit of good news, then two bits of bad news, and you take two steps _ bits of bad news, and you take two steps back — bits of bad news, and you take two steps back. all of that isjust heart—wrenching. they do it with pleasure — heart—wrenching. they do it with pleasure and joy.

heart-wrenching. they do it with pleasure and joy.— heart-wrenching. they do it with pleasure and joy. pleasure and 'oy. they take so much ride in pleasure and 'oy. they take so much pride in their— pleasure and joy. they take so much pride in their care. _ pleasure and joy. they take so much pride in their care. they _ pleasure and joy. they take so much pride in their care. they do, - pleasure and joy. they take so much pride in their care. they do, yes. - pride in their care. they do, yes. can ou pride in their care. they do, yes. can you tell— pride in their care. they do, yes. can you tell your _ pride in their care. they do, yes. can you tell your story, - pride in their care. they do, yes. can you tell your story, nick? . pride in their care. they do, yes. | can you tell your story, nick? so, it was our third _ can you tell your story, nick? so, it was our third pregnancy, well, actually. — it was our third pregnancy, well, actually, our fourth pregnancy, we had a _ actually, our fourth pregnancy, we had a miscarriage in between. she had a miscarriage in between. she had really— had a miscarriage in between. she had really high blood pressure. from early on _ had really high blood pressure. from early on in _ had really high blood pressure. from early on in the pregnancy. the hospital— early on in the pregnancy. the hospital were keeping an eye on her. we regularly had two or three nights in hospital— we regularly had two or three nights in hospital to try to get her blood pressure — in hospital to try to get her blood pressure under control. on about 20 weeks. _ pressure under control. on about 20 weeks. we _ pressure under control. on about 20 weeks, we found the blood pressure was pretty— weeks, we found the blood pressure was pretty serious. it was something like 158/106. they admitted my wife to hospital for the foreseeable, they could not control it. after two weeks _ they could not control it. after two weeks in _ they could not control it. after two weeks in our local dorchester hospital. _ weeks in our local dorchester hospital, they decided that they needed — hospital, they decided that they needed specialist care, because of the chances where they would have to deliver— the chances where they would have to deliver really early. a medical team

took my— deliver really early. a medical team took my wife down to southampton and she has— took my wife down to southampton and she has to _ took my wife down to southampton and she has to stay down there for... well, _ she has to stay down there for... well, until— she has to stay down there for... well, untilthey she has to stay down there for... well, until they could get it sorted out under— well, until they could get it sorted out under control, which they never did. out under control, which they never did they— out under control, which they never did. they were trying to wait until 30 weeks — did. they were trying to wait until 30 weeks before they delivered, and they had _ 30 weeks before they delivered, and they had a _ 30 weeks before they delivered, and they had a whole host of problems coming _ they had a whole host of problems coming on — they had a whole host of problems coming on. there were about four different— coming on. there were about four different issues they were monitoring, from pre—eclampsia, kidney— monitoring, from pre—eclampsia, kidney failure and this high blood pressure — kidney failure and this high blood pressure situation. the other one i can't _ pressure situation. the other one i can't quite — pressure situation. the other one i can't quite remember right now. eventually, at 30 weeks, got a phone call at _ eventually, at 30 weeks, got a phone call at one _ eventually, at 30 weeks, got a phone call at one o'clock in the morning, i call at one o'clock in the morning, i was _ call at one o'clock in the morning, i was over— call at one o'clock in the morning, i was over an _ call at one o'clock in the morning, i was over an hour away from the hospital. — i was over an hour away from the hospital. at— i was over an hour away from the hospital, at home, and they said you have got— hospital, at home, and they said you have got to _ hospital, at home, and they said you have got to make it here, your wife is in theatre — have got to make it here, your wife is in theatre. i think i made it is in theatre. ! think i made it with— is in theatre. i think i made it with about _ is in theatre. i think i made it with about four minutes to spare. 0ur with about four minutes to spare. our daughter, sophia, was born at 30 weeks, _ 0ur daughter, sophia, was born at 30 weeks. just— our daughter, sophia, was born at 30 weeks, just about three pounds in

weight _ weeks, just about three pounds in weight. the thing that really sticks out in _ weight. the thing that really sticks out in my— weight. the thing that really sticks out in my mind, everything that those _ out in my mind, everything that those guys said, they knew was going to happen _ those guys said, they knew was going to happen. they said to my wife, you are going _ to happen. they said to my wife, you are going to— to happen. they said to my wife, you are going to start feeling pressure, we are _ are going to start feeling pressure, we are going to start pulling the baby— we are going to start pulling the baby out— we are going to start pulling the baby out now, when it comes out, you're _ baby out now, when it comes out, you're not— baby out now, when it comes out, you're not going to hear any crying, there _ you're not going to hear any crying, there will— you're not going to hear any crying, there will be — you're not going to hear any crying, there will be five or six people take _ there will be five or six people take care _ there will be five or six people take care and put her in the incubator, _ take care and put her in the incubator, they will do this and that _ incubator, they will do this and that and — incubator, they will do this and that. and to the letter, every one of things— that. and to the letter, every one of things happened. the}t that. and to the letter, every one of things happened.— that. and to the letter, every one of things happened. they are really in control, aren't _ of things happened. they are really in control, aren't they? _ of things happened. they are really in control, aren't they? even - of things happened. they are really in control, aren't they? even if- in control, aren't they? even if you're — in control, aren't they? even if you're not _ in control, aren't they? even if you're not l— in control, aren't they? even if you're not-— in control, aren't they? even if ou're not. ,, ., , i, ., you're not. i know these guys are doini it you're not. i know these guys are doing it day _ you're not. i know these guys are doing it day in. — you're not. i know these guys are doing it day in, day _ you're not. i know these guys are doing it day in, day out, - doing it day in, day out, but everything they said, to the letter, to the _ everything they said, to the letter, to the minute, nearly, was absolutely right. and then within sort of— absolutely right. and then within sort of half an hour or so, day were 'ust sort of half an hour or so, day were just whisked — sort of half an hour or so, day were just whisked off to specialist care. my wife _ just whisked off to specialist care. my wife was whisked off to recovery, and i my wife was whisked off to recovery, and l was _ my wife was whisked off to recovery, and i was taken down into this... it's and i was taken down into this... it's like _ and i was taken down into this... it's like something out of the

movies. _ it's like something out of the movies, something out of a film. they— movies, something out of a film. they were — movies, something out of a film. they were white coats everywhere, incubators — they were white coats everywhere, incubators all around the side of the room — incubators all around the side of the room. it's incubators all around the side of the room. �* , ., incubators all around the side of the room. 3 ., , �* the room. it's unreal, isn't it? it's a lot— the room. it's unreal, isn't it? it's a lotto — the room. it's unreal, isn't it? it's a lot to process. _ the room. it's unreal, isn't it? l it's a lot to process. absolutely. and i remember _ it's a lot to process. absolutely. and i remember being - it's a lot to process. absolutely. and i remember being in - it's a lot to process. absolutely. and i remember being in there, | it's a lot to process. absolutely. i and i remember being in there, it wasn't— and i remember being in there, it wasn'tvery— and i remember being in there, it wasn't very long, the nurses came up to me _ wasn't very long, the nurses came up to me and _ wasn't very long, the nurses came up to me and said, would you like to hold _ to me and said, would you like to hold your— to me and said, would you like to hold your baby? i said, i can't do that, _ hold your baby? i said, i can't do that, she — hold your baby? i said, i can't do that, she is — hold your baby? i said, i can't do that, she is proper poorly. you've -ot that, she is proper poorly. you've got more — that, she is proper poorly. you've got more than enough to do, don't worry— got more than enough to do, don't worry about — got more than enough to do, don't worry about me, and all of a sudden the went— worry about me, and all of a sudden the went off. the whole thing just emptied — the went off. the whole thing just emptied. the room just emptied and off they— emptied. the room just emptied and off they went to theatre because there _ off they went to theatre because there was another baby that was in serious _ there was another baby that was in serious trouble. at that point, i 'ust serious trouble. at that point, i just broke — serious trouble. at that point, i just broke down. just to see how... they— just broke down. just to see how... they sort— just broke down. just to see how... they sort ofm _ just broke down. just to see how... they sort of... | just broke down. just to see how... they sort of- - -_ they sort of... i feel you there, i do. i they sort of... i feel you there, i do- i have _ they sort of... i feel you there, i do. i have witnessed _ they sort of... i feel you there, i do. i have witnessed that - they sort of... i feel you there, i do. i have witnessed that many i they sort of... i feel you there, i | do. i have witnessed that many a time, _ do. i have witnessed that many a time, the — do. i have witnessed that many a time, the alarms— do. i have witnessed that many a time, the alarms came _ do. i have witnessed that many a time, the alarms came and - do. i have witnessed that many a time, the alarms came and theyl do. i have witnessed that many a . time, the alarms came and theyjust run away— time, the alarms came and theyjust run away at — time, the alarms came and theyjust run away at high _ time, the alarms came and theyjust run away at high speed. _ time, the alarms came and theyjust run away at high speed. you - time, the alarms came and theyjust run away at high speed. you know, i run away at high speed. you know, they are _ run away at high speed. you know, they are on — run away at high speed. you know,

they are on it _ run away at high speed. you know, they are on it. there _ run away at high speed. you know, they are on it. there is— run away at high speed. you know, they are on it. there is no- they are on it. there is no hesitation, _ they are on it. there is no hesitation, they— they are on it. there is no hesitation, they are - they are on it. there is no. hesitation, they are straight they are on it. there is no- hesitation, they are straight there. we were _ hesitation, they are straight there. we were one — hesitation, they are straight there. we were one of— hesitation, they are straight there. we were one of those _ hesitation, they are straight there. we were one of those alarms! - hesitation, they are straight there. we were one of those alarms! where ou? in we were one of those alarms! where you? in theatre. _ we were one of those alarms! where you? in theatre, yes. _ we were one of those alarms! where you? in theatre, yes. sorry, - we were one of those alarms! where you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry- you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry on. you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry on- there — you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry on. there were _ you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry on. there were many _ you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry on. there were many times - you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry on. there were many times when j you? in theatre, yes. sorry, carry. on. there were many times when my dauihter on. there were many times when my daughter was — on. there were many times when my daughter was the _ on. there were many times when my daughter was the reason _ on. there were many times when my daughter was the reason for - on. there were many times when my daughter was the reason for the - daughter was the reason for the alarm — daughter was the reason for the alarm. dill— daughter was the reason for the alarm. . ., ,,~ , daughter was the reason for the alarm. . ., , , , alarm. all of the sats 'ust plummet, and they have _ alarm. all of the sats 'ust plummet, and they have to — alarm. all of the sats 'ust plummet, and they have to rush — alarm. all of the satsjust plummet, and they have to rush over. - alarm. all of the satsjust plummet, and they have to rush over. the - and they have to rush over. the first time it happened, she went completely lifeless, her whole body went grey and floppy. they had to do the stimulus... sorry... it's the stimulus... sorry... it's terrifying- _ the stimulus... sorry... it's terrifying- lt _ the stimulus... sorry... it's terrifying. it really - the stimulus... sorry... it's terrifying. it really is - the stimulus... sorry... it's - terrifying. it really is terrifying. but how many _ terrifying. it really is terrifying. but how many people - terrifying. it really is terrifying. but how many people would i terrifying. it really is terrifying. i but how many people would come running when the alarms would sound, and she would have one of these moments, within what felt like hours, but actually it was probably only a minute, they bring her back and her sats would come back up. how

they would do that is treat with the ventilator, increase her oxygen. my daughter was on a ventilator for 46 daysin daughter was on a ventilator for 46 days in total. during that time, she had a collapsed lung. we had to have more steroids. i mean, she had a bleed on the brain the day she was born. there was constant scans and procedures being carried out. every day, add morning rounds, and the doctors would come round, i was the parent that was armed with so many questions because i needed to be clear in my own head what was happening. once they explained to me, i could understand it to be able relay it to the immediate family. my daughter is going to be two in september. daughter is going to be two in september-— daughter is going to be two in setember. . �* ., ., ,. ., september. we've got a picture of her own at — september. we've got a picture of her own at the _ september. we've got a picture of her own at the screen, _ september. we've got a picture of her own at the screen, if - september. we've got a picture of her own at the screen, if anybody| september. we've got a picture of. her own at the screen, if anybody is watching. look at that, the tiny little hands as well. that watching. look at that, the tiny little hands as well.— watching. look at that, the tiny little hands as well. that is one of the photos. _ little hands as well. that is one of the photos, she _ little hands as well. that is one of the photos, she was _ little hands as well. that is one of

the photos, she wasjust - little hands as well. that is one of the photos, she wasjust the - little hands as well. that is one of the photos, she wasjust the size | little hands as well. that is one of i the photos, she wasjust the size of the photos, she was just the size of my hand. i think there was another one i said, you could see that her foot was the size of my thumb print. she was one pound seven when she was born, at 26 weeks.— born, at 26 weeks. nick, how is your little iirl born, at 26 weeks. nick, how is your little girl how — born, at 26 weeks. nick, how is your little girl now question _ born, at 26 weeks. nick, how is your little girl now question she _ born, at 26 weeks. nick, how is your little girl now question she is - little girl now question she is doini little girl now question she is doing fine- — little girl now question she is doing fine. it's _ little girl now question she is doing fine. it's a _ little girl now question she is doing fine. it's a tough - little girl now question she is doing fine. it's a tough startl little girl now question she is i doing fine. it's a tough start for her in _ doing fine. it's a tough start for her in life _ doing fine. it's a tough start for her in life. but if you put her against _ her in life. but if you put her against another nearly two—year—old, she is— against another nearly two—year—old, she is probably a little bit smaller than they— she is probably a little bit smaller than they are. but she is walking, she is— than they are. but she is walking, she is nearly talking. yes, there is no ill— she is nearly talking. yes, there is no ill effects from it. you wouldn't have _ no ill effects from it. you wouldn't have known— no ill effects from it. you wouldn't have known from looking at her, unless _ have known from looking at her, unless you — have known from looking at her, unless you tell the story, that she had such— unless you tell the story, that she had such a — unless you tell the story, that she had such a tough start in life. it's 'ust had such a tough start in life. it's just really— had such a tough start in life. it's just really interesting, the thing that really got me, going back to the bill— that really got me, going back to the bill and the reason you said

that this — the bill and the reason you said that this morning, for employed people — that this morning, for employed people to — that this morning, for employed people to get extra time off, brilliant~ _ people to get extra time off, brilliant. but for a self—employed person _ brilliant. but for a self—employed person like myself, it was probably the hardest three months of my life. we had _ the hardest three months of my life. we had the — the hardest three months of my life. we had the hour and a betterjourney to the _ we had the hour and a betterjourney to the hospital. i had a 12—year—old daughter, — to the hospital. i had a 12—year—old daughter, six—year—old son, asking if they— daughter, six—year—old son, asking if they are — daughter, six—year—old son, asking if they are going to see mummy again. _ if they are going to see mummy again, because there were covid restrictions still. i again, because there were covid restrictions still.— restrictions still. i want to bring ton in. restrictions still. i want to bring tony in- l _ restrictions still. i want to bring tony in. i apologise _ restrictions still. i want to bring tony in. i apologise for- restrictions still. i want to bring tony in. i apologise for coming | restrictions still. i want to bring i tony in. i apologise for coming in slightly bluntly, there. you were talking about the round trips. tony in worcester, i haven't got so long with you because you have to rush off, how long were your round trips? good morning. yes, my wife was taken into hospitaljust before 24 weeks, and we were expecting triplets. her waters broke and we were very fortunate that they managed to find pre—neonatal teams on standby at

liverpool women's hospital. my wife stayed in liverpool women's forfive months, and i had a 250 mile round trip of the m6 every friday night. what happened with your triplets? yes, jules was born two days before miller and louise are, unfortunately she was very poorly, just after 24 weeks, 620 grams, something like that, and she lived for 17 days. and miller and jules were in hospital forfive months. they had miller and jules were in hospital for five months. they had so miller and jules were in hospital forfive months. they had so many problems. louisa had a hole in her heart repaired. they both had operations to fix detached retina is, louisa is blind in one eye and partially sighted on the other. and miller developed cerebral palsy and was very poorly, she was with us for ten years before we lost her in

2017. i can't say anything higher about the fantastic teams of the nhs, liverpool, we still remain friends and visit them. it's always an emotional time to go back up there, becausejules is buried in liverpool. you can probably hear that i am quite emotional. it's amazing that this law has come in. working full i had tremendous support from the school where i was working, they gave me compassionate leave. i was financially not out of pocket, they supported me. at this law is a real game changer for families like us. i law is a real game changer for families like us.— families like us. i am so sorry about your— families like us. i am so sorry about your loss. _ families like us. i am so sorry about your loss. thank - families like us. i am so sorry about your loss. thank you i families like us. i am so sorry| about your loss. thank you for talking to so many people about this now on the radio.— now on the radio. thank you, i appreciate _ now on the radio. thank you, i appreciate it- _ now on the radio. thank you, i appreciate it. it's _ now on the radio. thank you, i appreciate it. it's a _ now on the radio. thank you, i appreciate it. it's a fantastic i appreciate it. it's a fantastic thing, hearing everybody else's stories, it brings it back, there are 70 people in this position. what are 70 people in this position. what was it like for— are 70 people in this position. what was it like for you _ are 70 people in this position. what was it like for you and _ are 70 people in this position. what was it like for you and your partner? the pain goes on in so many

years. what kind of emotional toll that it take? i years. what kind of emotional toll that it take?— that it take? i got there and there was a couple _ that it take? i got there and there was a couple there, _ that it take? i got there and there was a couple there, i _ that it take? i got there and there was a couple there, i overheard . that it take? i got there and there - was a couple there, i overheard them saying they had been there for six months, title that was impossible. you don't actually think at the time, you go literally from minute to minute, day to day. so many things happen. you live in a bubble. it is almost like time stops. you really don't realise, the changing of the seasons and everything. they had been there a month, suddenly. there was a celebration for somebody who had been on the neonatal unit for 100 days. it's things like that. it's only after you process that and realise it is nearly half a year that we had that situation. it's all consuming. i don't know how i managed to continue to keep a smile, and keep teaching. it is something i had to do, i suppose. yes, it's a very hard thing to explain, unless

you have been in it. you very hard thing to explain, unless you have been in it.— very hard thing to explain, unless you have been in it. you have done it brilliantly. _ you have been in it. you have done it brilliantly, all _ you have been in it. you have done it brilliantly, all of _ you have been in it. you have done it brilliantly, all of you _ you have been in it. you have done it brilliantly, all of you have. - it brilliantly, all of you have. thank you very much indeed, tony, nick, natasha and elizabeth. more to come. premature babies, your stories. this is bbc radio 5 live, bbc sounds, bbc news, glad you are there. meanwhile, here is the news with al tansley. it's emerged that health inspectors considered closing a maternity unit in kent. an independent review found that services at the william harvey hospital in ashford were inadequate. east kent hospitals trust said it acted immediately to address safety concerns. april's retailfigures were pubished this morning. sales rose by 0.5% after dropping 1.2% in march.

it comes as the boss of sainsbury's has denied profiteering from inflation. simon roberts says he's seen no sign of so—called "greedflation". police investigating the attempted murder of a detective in county tyrone have arrested 11 people in what they're calling a "significant operation". detective chief inspectorjohn caldwell was shot and critically injured in omagh in february. the dissident republican group the new ira said it carried out the attack. and british airways has cancelled at least 42 more flights because of it problems. most of the flights are on short—haul routes to and from heathrow airport ahead of the half—term holiday. around 16,000 passengers have been affected. liverpool forward mo salah says he's devastated after the club missed out on champions league football. manchester united's 4—1 win over chelsea means the reds will finish fifth. salah, in a post on social media last night, said "there is absolutely no excuse" for missing out on the premier league's top four. meanwhile, manchester united manager erik ten hag says the club belongs in the champions league. last night's win at old trafford lifts them

above newcastle and up to third. az alkmaar have issued 43 stadium bans after west ham united fans were attacked during their europa conference league semifinal defeat. several hammers players confronted the group of fans that had targeted an area containing their friends and family. british number one cameron norrie will look to continue his good form ahead of the french open which starts on sunday. he faces francisco cerundulo in the last four of the lyon open. it's his third successive semifinal on clay. and in formula 1, first practice ahead of this sunday's monaco grand prix gets under way this afternoon. you can hear live commentary over on 5 sports extra from 12:25.

listen, i have got to tell you about ten o'clock this morning, because i really feel a busy one coming on. we have got chief constablejoejo shiner, who is the national police chiefs cancelled aid for road policing. you can speak to her about anything, speed awareness courses, you know! it is limitless, there is an endless road of questions ahead, and i'm looking forward to it, it is great that she is on, because i have got a feeling that you will have

something to say about this. your questions, she has a road strategy, and you may well do as well. your questions for our top road cop, that is coming up at ten o'clock. we are talking about premature babies because of new legislation which comes in, i think it is in a year and which comes in, i think it is in a yearand a which comes in, i think it is in a year and a half, but it got royal assent this week, zillah, hello! how are you doing?— are you doing? very well, thank you so much for— are you doing? very well, thank you so much for inviting _ are you doing? very well, thank you so much for inviting me _ are you doing? very well, thank you so much for inviting me on. - are you doing? very well, thank you so much for inviting me on. it- are you doing? very well, thank you so much for inviting me on. it is- so much for inviting me on. it is ireat so much for inviting me on. it is great you _ so much for inviting me on. it is great you are — so much for inviting me on. it is great you are there. _ so much for inviting me on. it is great you are there. what does this legislation... i don't know if you have managed to hear any of this so

far, it has been incredible, hearing from mums and dads, the sense of community, the shared experience, the ups and downs, one step forward, two steps back, while, it has been great to listen to, i have been a viewer and a listener this morning, because they have been doing all the talking, which is always preferable. what does this legislation mean for people? what does this legislation mean for eo - le? ~ .. what does this legislation mean for --eole? ~ .. , , people? well, i think it is 'ust one of the most — people? well, i think it is 'ust one of the most important _ people? well, i think it isjust one i of the most important breakthroughs ever, that currently, if a baby is born prematurely, maternity and paternity leave starts immediately, which may well mean that a parent has to go back to work before the child reaches the nine—month stage, or whilst their premature baby is in hospital, and therefore the difference that this bill makes in terms of providing 12 weeks of support for these families is immense, because it means that they don't have to start their paternity

or maternity leave immediately, and it means they are able to spend precious time with their families. which is all—important, and i'm sure this will resonate sharon in gravesend and also claire in cumbernauld, not farfrom glasgow. hello, claire, good morning, and sharon, good morning to you, i think i will go with my countrywoman first, claire, what was your story? so my little girl was born at 27 weeks — so my little girl was born at 27 weeks at — so my little girl was born at 27 weeks at glasgow royal infirmary, she was— weeks at glasgow royal infirmary, she was 1.5lb when she was born, straight _ she was 1.5lb when she was born, straight to— she was 1.5lb when she was born, straight to icu, she spent 15 weeks in hospital— straight to icu, she spent 15 weeks in hospital before she went home and oxygen. _ in hospital before she went home and oxygen, and she spent a further three _ oxygen, and she spent a further three months on oxygen, a really difficult _ three months on oxygen, a really difficult time in our lives, we were worried _ difficult time in our lives, we were worried day— difficult time in our lives, we were worried day today about what the outcome — worried day today about what the outcome would be for sophia, being so small— outcome would be for sophia, being so small and having to catch up,

like you — so small and having to catch up, like you mentioned, my husband had to work— like you mentioned, my husband had to work while she was still in hospital. _ to work while she was still in hospital, which was really difficult. i took unpaid leave to support— difficult. i took unpaid leave to support her longer, but i went back when _ support her longer, but i went back when she _ support her longer, but i went back when she had just turned one, in fact about — when she had just turned one, in fact about eight months old, it was really— fact about eight months old, it was really difficult time for us. a fact about eight months old, it was really difficult time for us.- really difficult time for us. a long time in hospital, _ really difficult time for us. a long time in hospital, thanks - really difficult time for us. a long time in hospital, thanks for - really difficult time for us. a long time in hospital, thanks for the l time in hospital, thanks for the picture, we are seeing her now, if anyone is watching on the telly. tiny wee thing, goodness me. what was all this light for you? like tiny wee thing, goodness me. what was all this light for you?— was all this light for you? like a bar of was all this light for you? like a bag of sugar- — was all this light for you? like a bag of sugar. less _ was all this light for you? like a bag of sugar. less than - was all this light for you? like a bag of sugar. less than a - was all this light for you? like a bag of sugar. less than a bag i was all this light for you? like a j bag of sugar. less than a bag of sugar! it was really challenging, she was my first baby, and all the normal things that i expected for my maternity leave were taken away from me or delayed, we didn't get to cuddle herfor too weeks, she didn't have a bath until she was ten weeks old, little moments that are really important in bonding with your child were delayed, and ifelt, in my

maternity leave, some of it was rushed, because i had to go back to work, so this bill is really important in taking away the pressure for parents, making sure you can enjoy the time with your baby, because that is all you want, the precious little person to spend time with. ., , , ., the precious little person to spend time with._ she is time with. how is she now? she is brilliant, she _ time with. how is she now? she is brilliant, she is _ time with. how is she now? she is brilliant, she is in _ time with. how is she now? she is brilliant, she is in primary - time with. how is she now? she is brilliant, she is in primary tow, . time with. how is she now? she is brilliant, she is in primary tow, a i brilliant, she is in primary tow, a great personality, a happy, healthy, amazing little girl. find great personality, a happy, healthy, amazing little girl.— amazing little girl. and has she seen the pictures _ amazing little girl. and has she seen the pictures that - amazing little girl. and has she seen the pictures that we - amazing little girl. and has she seen the pictures that we are i amazing little girl. and has she - seen the pictures that we are seeing at the moment? what does he make of that? ,, , y ., ., , ., that? she tells everyone i was a su er that? she tells everyone i was a super tiny _ that? she tells everyone i was a super tiny baby _ that? she tells everyone i was a super tiny baby but _ that? she tells everyone i was a super tiny baby but look - that? she tells everyone i was a super tiny baby but look at - that? she tells everyone i was a super tiny baby but look at me i that? she tells everyone i was a - super tiny baby but look at me now. her goal in life is to take everything head on and try the best she can, and she definitely follows

that ethos of nothing is too difficult, she will have a shot. she is a great personality.— difficult, she will have a shot. she is a great personality. sharon, meet claire. is a great personality. sharon, meet claire- tell us _ is a great personality. sharon, meet claire. tell us more. _ is a great personality. sharon, meet claire. tell us more. my _ is a great personality. sharon, meet claire. tell us more. my last - is a great personality. sharon, meet claire. tell us more. my last child, i claire. tell us more. my last child, m son claire. tell us more. my last child, my son was _ claire. tell us more. my last child, my son was born _ claire. tell us more. my last child, my son was born at _ claire. tell us more. my last child, my son was born at 31 _ claire. tell us more. my last child, my son was born at 31 weeks. - my son was born at 31 weeks. everything went wrong then, because i had everything went wrong then, because i had a _ everything went wrong then, because i had a placental abruption, and everything went wrong then, because i had a placentalabruption, and i was rushed — i had a placentalabruption, and i was rushed to my hospital and they delivered _ was rushed to my hospital and they delivered him by emergency caesarean. it was touch and go for him and _ caesarean. it was touch and go for him and for— caesarean. it was touch and go for him and for me, but thanks to my local hospital, who delivered him safely. _ local hospital, who delivered him safely, westminster in london, i mean, _ safely, westminster in london, i mean. he — safely, westminster in london, i mean, he was forlb 12 at lungs due to his _ mean, he was forlb 12 at lungs due to his prematurity, but to look at him now. — to his prematurity, but to look at him now. he _ to his prematurity, but to look at him now, he is 20 this year, and

thinking — him now, he is 20 this year, and thinking back, you know, thinking, has he _ thinking back, you know, thinking, has he got — thinking back, you know, thinking, has he got a — thinking back, you know, thinking, has he got a chance, and i think premature — has he got a chance, and i think premature babies have more of a fight _ premature babies have more of a fight in _ premature babies have more of a fight in them, that will to survive. that is— fight in them, that will to survive. that is interesting. i fight in them, that will to survive. that is interesting.— that is interesting. i mean, it is a aood that is interesting. i mean, it is a good thing. _ that is interesting. i mean, it is a good thing. this _ that is interesting. i mean, it is a good thing, this royal _ that is interesting. i mean, it is a good thing, this royal assent, . that is interesting. i mean, it is a good thing, this royal assent, iti that is interesting. i mean, it is a| good thing, this royal assent, it is absolutely— good thing, this royal assent, it is absolutely brilliant. i will champion premature babies all the way down — champion premature babies all the way down the line. 20? yes, 20 in september- _ way down the line. 20? yes, 20 in september. you _ way down the line. 20? yes, 20 in september. you cannot _ way down the line. 20? yes, 20 in september. you cannot believe i way down the line. 20? yes, 20 in i september. you cannot believe how time flies, incredible. _ september. you cannot believe how time flies, incredible. i— september. you cannot believe how time flies, incredible. i look - september. you cannot believe how time flies, incredible. i look at i september. you cannot believe how time flies, incredible. i look at my i time flies, incredible. i look at my son now, time flies, incredible. i look at my son now. and _ time flies, incredible. i look at my son now, and i am _ time flies, incredible. i look at my son now, and i am thinking, i time flies, incredible. i look at my son now, and i am thinking, what| time flies, incredible. i look at my| son now, and i am thinking, what a rough _ son now, and i am thinking, what a rough start— son now, and i am thinking, what a rough start he had in life, and i remember— rough start he had in life, and i rememberon rough start he had in life, and i remember on his 18th birthday, i said. _ remember on his 18th birthday, i said. what— remember on his 18th birthday, i said, what a rough start, but look at you _ said, what a rough start, but look at you now, a fine young man. brilliant — at you now, a fine young man. brilliant. ,., at you now, a fine young man. brilliant. ,. ., , ., at you now, a fine young man. brilliant. ., , ., brilliant. he said, was it that bad? i said, it

brilliant. he said, was it that bad? i said. it was _ brilliant. he said, was it that bad? i said, it was was. _ brilliant. he said, was it that bad? i said, it was was. i _ brilliant. he said, was it that bad? i said, it was was. i mean, - i said, it was was. i mean, obviously. _ i said, it was was. i mean, obviously, his father died nearly 12 years— obviously, his father died nearly 12 years ago. — obviously, his father died nearly 12 years ago, and if he could see him now. _ years ago, and if he could see him now. well. — years ago, and if he could see him now. well. it— years ago, and if he could see him now, well, it is amazing. premature babies. _ now, well, it is amazing. premature babies, when they are born and when they are _ babies, when they are born and when they are grown up, you wouldn't think— they are grown up, you wouldn't think to — they are grown up, you wouldn't think to look at them that... 20, eah, think to look at them that... 20, yeah. and. _ think to look at them that... 20, yeah, and, sophia, _ think to look at them that... ziii yeah, and, sophia, sorry, claire, talking about sophia, the next thing you know, she will be 20, it goes like that. i you know, she will be 20, it goes like that. .. ., you know, she will be 20, it goes like that. ,, ., ,, ., ~' like that. i know, i know! ithink, like that. i know, i know! ithink, like sharon _ like that. i know, i know! ithink, like sharon says, _ like that. i know, i know! ithink, like sharon says, they _ like that. i know, i know! ithink, like sharon says, they have i like sharon says, they have this fight, the determination. it is amazing what they can achieve, and the rough startjust build resilience in them, and it builds resilience in them, and it builds resilience in them, and it builds resilience in you as a parent to try to do the best for them, and like sharon says, fight for their rights, fight for the time to make sure they are given equal opportunities and determine theirfuture

are given equal opportunities and determine their future success. sharon says she will fight all the way down the line. here is poppy, joanne, melba in birmingham, poppy in halifax, you go first. what is the story of your baby, poppy? i the story of your baby, poppy? i had a bab at the story of your baby, poppy? i had a baby at 25 — the story of your baby, poppy? i had a baby at 25 plus _ the story of your baby, poppy? i had a baby at 25 plus one. _ the story of your baby, poppy? i had a baby at 25 plus one. i _ the story of your baby, poppy? i u—c a baby at 25 plus one. i started with pain a few days before she was born, and i was 17, having a baby really young, the hardest thing i have ever had to go through, but i have ever had to go through, but i have a lot of support with my mum and my dad, and in nicu... my daughterwas and my dad, and in nicu... my daughter was born on the 18th of november, she was due on the 2nd of

march. and i started contracting two days before, and i was in college, so i rang the midwife team, explained what i was going through and stuff, and she told me to go down to the hospital. i was only 24 plus five. so once they checked me and everything, they told me to go home and drink some water, and if anything gets worse, just to call them back. so i called them back, it kept getting worse and worse, than on the 18th of november, in the morning, at 5am, i walked on the 18th of november, in the morning, at 5am, iwalked into on the 18th of november, in the morning, at 5am, i walked into my mum's room and said, listen, this is the worst pain of my life. so we rang the hospital, and they told me to come down, and when i got there, they checked me and i was four

centimetres dilated, so they rushed me round to the labour ward, and she was born two hours later.— was born two hours later. gosh, what a thin to was born two hours later. gosh, what a thing to go — was born two hours later. gosh, what a thing to go through, _ was born two hours later. gosh, what a thing to go through, the _ was born two hours later. gosh, what a thing to go through, the worst i a thing to go through, the worst pain you had ever known. but you had lots of support, did you? 0h. pain you had ever known. but you had lots of support, did you?— lots of support, did you? oh, yeah, but it was hard, _ lots of support, did you? oh, yeah, but it was hard, because _ lots of support, did you? oh, yeah, but it was hard, because actually i but it was hard, because actually halifax don't take babies under 27 weeks, so with delilah being born at 25 plus one, she had to be transferred out to burnley? so i actually had to stay in burnley for two months while she got better so that she could come back. we two months while she got better so that she could come back.— that she could come back. we have not a that she could come back. we have got a picture. _ that she could come back. we have got a picture. sorry. _ that she could come back. we have got a picture, sorry, what- that she could come back. we have got a picture, sorry, what is- that she could come back. we have got a picture, sorry, what is a i got a picture, sorry, what is a name? remind me.— got a picture, sorry, what is a i name? remind me.- there got a picture, sorry, what is a - name? remind me.- there she name? remind me. delilah. there she is, that is name? remind me. delilah. there she is. that is a _ name? remind me. delilah. there she is, that is a lovely _ name? remind me. delilah. there she is, that is a lovely name, _ name? remind me. delilah. there she is, that is a lovely name, if— name? remind me. delilah. there she is, that is a lovely name, if anyone i is, that is a lovely name, if anyone is, that is a lovely name, if anyone is watching, and i know some people are, on the screen, it is when you see the hand in the background, and you see the comparative size, wow.

how is she now, poppy? she is absolutely _ how is she now, poppy? she is absolutely fine, _ how is she now, poppy? she is absolutely fine, she _ how is she now, poppy? she is absolutely fine, she came i how is she now, poppy? she is| absolutely fine, she came home how is she now, poppy? she is- absolutely fine, she came home on oxygen on her due date, and she has come out into the air, and she never had a problem, babies born at 25 weeks might have infections in every problem under the son, but she has thrived and had no problems whatsoever.— thrived and had no problems whatsoever. . ,, ., . ., whatsoever. that is brilliant. what a thin for whatsoever. that is brilliant. what a thing for you _ whatsoever. that is brilliant. what a thing for you to _ whatsoever. that is brilliant. what a thing for you to go _ whatsoever. that is brilliant. what a thing for you to go through - whatsoever. that is brilliant. what a thing for you to go through at. whatsoever. that is brilliant. what a thing for you to go through at 16 | a thing for you to go through at 16 and not so long ago.— and not so long ago. yeah. really hard, but i _ and not so long ago. yeah. really hard, but i had — and not so long ago. yeah. really hard, but i had a _ and not so long ago. yeah. really hard, but i had a lot _ and not so long ago. yeah. really hard, but i had a lot of— and not so long ago. yeah. really hard, but i had a lot of support. i hard, but i had a lot of support. my mum couldn't stay with me, but she rang me every day and asked how delilah was, she came up when she could. that was very helpful. let me

brina ou could. that was very helpful. let me bring you back _ could. that was very helpful. let me bring you back in, _ could. that was very helpful. let me bring you back in, zillah, _ could. that was very helpful. let me bring you back in, zillah, to - could. that was very helpful. let me bring you back in, zillah, to react . bring you back in, zillah, to react to that story, speak to poppy. it sounds as if you have gone through the most _ sounds as if you have gone through the most incredibly tough experience, but how lovely that delilah — experience, but how lovely that delilah has come out the other end and is _ delilah has come out the other end and is doing so well. i think, i mean. — and is doing so well. i think, i mean, what we see at rainbow trust is very— mean, what we see at rainbow trust is very frequently the story that delilah — is very frequently the story that delilah mentioned, where children are moved — delilah mentioned, where children are moved to a different hospital from _ are moved to a different hospital from the — are moved to a different hospital from the local hospital. | are moved to a different hospital from the local hospital.— from the local hospital. i was wondering — from the local hospital. i was wondering about _ from the local hospital. i was wondering about that. - from the local hospital. i was wondering about that. that l from the local hospital. i was| wondering about that. that is sometimes — wondering about that. that is sometimes where _ wondering about that. that is sometimes where emotional| wondering about that. that is i sometimes where emotional and practical— sometimes where emotional and practical support can be really key, because _ practical support can be really key, because we — practical support can be really key, because we have eight teams across the country, so we are able to whom— the country, so we are able to support families in different locations, and i think that is the fundamental thing for us, that location isn't relevant for us, in the sense — location isn't relevant for us, in the sense that we can put supported where _ the sense that we can put supported where necessary, but what an amazing story, _ where necessary, but what an amazing story, poppy, ifeelforyou, and it sounds _ story, poppy, ifeelforyou, and it sounds like — story, poppy, ifeelforyou, and it sounds like you had the most incredible support, and that is one of the _ incredible support, and that is one of the most — incredible support, and that is one of the most important things. you

know, _ of the most important things. you know, nicky, that one in seven babies— know, nicky, that one in seven babies born in the uk will end up with some — babies born in the uk will end up with some form of neonatal care? right. _ with some form of neonatal care? right. 0k~~ — with some form of neonatal care? right. 0k...— with some form of neonatal care? right, 0k. . .- this _ with some form of neonatal care? right, 0k. . .- this is - with some form of neonatal care? right, 0k. . .- this is the - right, 0k. .. wow. this is the confusion _ right, 0k. .. wow. this is the confusion of _ right, 0k. .. wow. this is the confusion of the _ right, 0k. .. wow. this is the confusion of the stats, - right, 0k. .. wow. this is the confusion of the stats, one i right, 0k. .. wow. this is the confusion of the stats, one ini confusion of the stats, one in 30 before 27 weeks, but one in seven bit with some form of neonatal care, it is quite a statistic, isn't it? i think it is very hard, because when i go out and stuff, people ask me, how old is your baby? i say she is six months, and i cannot believe it, because any pound that goes through a neonatal experience or a baby one at a young gestation, i was born at 27 weeks myself, it must be hereditary! the parents are amazing, the babies are amazing. the most terrifying but amazing experience, you get to what your baby growing in front of your eyes. hit.

you get to what your baby growing in front of your eyes.— front of your eyes. hit. well, you are amazing _ front of your eyes. hit. well, you are amazing for _ front of your eyes. hit. well, you are amazing for getting _ front of your eyes. hit. well, you are amazing for getting in - front of your eyes. hit. well, you are amazing for getting in touch. | are amazing for getting in touch. thank you, poppy, lots of love to you and delilah as well.— thank you, poppy, lots of love to you and delilah as well. thank you so much. melba _ you and delilah as well. thank you so much. melba in _ you and delilah as well. thank you so much. melba in birmingham, . so much. melba in birmingham, joanne, i so much. melba in birmingham, joanne. l have — so much. melba in birmingham, joanne, i have mentioned - so much. melba in birmingham, joanne, i have mentioned you i joanne, i have mentioned you already, melba, so fire away, morning. already, melba, so fire away, morning-— already, melba, so fire away, morninu. ., , ., morning. good morning. is that nicky i am talking — morning. good morning. is that nicky i am talking to? _ morning. good morning. is that nicky i am talking to? it _ morning. good morning. is that nicky i am talking to? it is, _ morning. good morning. is that nicky i am talking to? it is, i _ morning. good morning. is that nicky i am talking to? it is, i think- i am talking to? it is, i think you miaht i am talking to? it is, i think you might have _ i am talking to? it is, i think you might have the _ i am talking to? it is, i think you might have the telly _ i am talking to? it is, i think you might have the telly on - i am talking to? it is, i think you might have the telly on in - i am talking to? it is, i think you might have the telly on in the i might have the telly on in the background, if you want to go away and turn it off? {line background, if you want to go away and turn it off?— and turn it off? one second, one second! that _ and turn it off? one second, one second! that is _ and turn it off? one second, one second! that is all _ and turn it off? one second, one second! that is all right. - and turn it off? one second, one second! that is all right. you - and turn it off? one second, one second! that is all right. you are there with _ second! that is all right. you are there with us _ second! that is all right. you are there with us now, _ second! that is all right. you are there with us now, we _ second! that is all right. you are there with us now, we have - second! that is all right. you are there with us now, we have got. there with us now, we have got it all sorted out. i there with us now, we have got it all sorted out.— there with us now, we have got it all sorted out._ it - there with us now, we have got it all sorted out._ it is i all sorted out. i am, yeah. it is nicky here. — all sorted out. i am, yeah. it is nicky here, how are _ all sorted out. i am, yeah. it is| nicky here, how are you doing? all sorted out. i am, yeah. it is. nicky here, how are you doing? i all sorted out. i am, yeah. it is- nicky here, how are you doing? i am exoecting my — nicky here, how are you doing? i am expecting my miracle _ nicky here, how are you doing? i am expecting my miracle baby to come, it is my— expecting my miracle baby to come, it is my birthday tomorrow! oh, ha - it is my birthday tomorrow! oh, happy birthday. _ it is my birthday tomorrow! oi, happy birthday, how old is your miracle baby? my happy birthday, how old is your miracle baby?— happy birthday, how old is your miracle baby? happy birthday, how old is your miracle bab ? g _ , ., miracle baby? my miracle baby is now 31! wow! i walking, _

miracle baby? my miracle baby is now 31! wow! i walking, talking _ miracle baby? my miracle baby is now 31! wow! i walking, talking miracle. i 31! wow! i walking, talking miracle. premature- — 31! wow! i walking, talking miracle. premature. say _ 31! wow! i walking, talking miracle. premature. say again. _ 31! wow! i walking, talking miracle. premature. say again. he _ 31! wow! i walking, talking miracle. premature. say again. he was - 31! wow! i walking, talking miracle. premature. say again. he was born | premature. say again. he was born three months _ premature. say again. he was born three months premature. - premature. say again. he was born three months premature. yeah, i premature. say again. he was born | three months premature. yeah, and premature. say again. he was born - three months premature. yeah, and he weighed _ three months premature. yeah, and he weighed 3lh _ three months premature. yeah, and he weighed 3th and a few ounces, i can't _ weighed 3th and a few ounces, i can't remember, i was married to an englishman, — can't remember, i was married to an englishman, i— can't remember, i was married to an englishman, i am divorced now, can't remember, i was married to an englishman, lam divorced now, and my mother—in—law gave me lots of support, _ my mother—in—law gave me lots of support, because she used to work as a matron _ support, because she used to work as a matron in _ support, because she used to work as a matron in sudan, so she gave me lots of— a matron in sudan, so she gave me lots of support, and i had never, never— lots of support, and i had never, never expected something like that to happen, you know? and when that happened. _ to happen, you know? and when that happened. i_ to happen, you know? and when that happened, ijust said, how am i going _ happened, ijust said, how am i going to — happened, ijust said, how am i going to cope? how am i going to cope? _ going to cope? how am i going to cope? and — going to cope? how am i going to cope? and he was in an incubator for three _ cope? and he was in an incubator for three whole — cope? and he was in an incubator for three whole months, and the nurses and doctors — three whole months, and the nurses and doctors kept saying to me, mrs green, _ and doctors kept saying to me, mrs green, please, please breast—feed him, _ green, please, please breast—feed him. there— green, please, please breast—feed him, there is nothing better than

mothers— him, there is nothing better than mother's breast—feeding, he will leave _ mother's breast—feeding, he will leave hospital sooner than later. i said, _ leave hospital sooner than later. i said. no, — leave hospital sooner than later. i said. no, i— leave hospital sooner than later. i said, no, idon't leave hospital sooner than later. i said, no, i don't want to breast—feed him, his fingers are so tiny i_ breast—feed him, his fingers are so tiny i might — breast—feed him, his fingers are so tiny i might break them! so then, because _ tiny i might break them! so then, because he — tiny i might break them! so then, because he was on... what is it called? — because he was on... what is it called? the _ because he was on... what is it called? the bottle, not the bottle, tinned _ called? the bottle, not the bottle, tinned milk, they gave you a sort of machinem — tinned milk, they gave you a sort of machine... they gave you a machine to express _ machine... they gave you a machine to express milk from my body so that you can _ to express milk from my body so that you can drink— to express milk from my body so that you can drink mother's milk, and they— you can drink mother's milk, and they say— you can drink mother's milk, and they say it — you can drink mother's milk, and they say it is _ you can drink mother's milk, and they say it is a miracle to have mother's— they say it is a miracle to have mother's milk, and i believe in it now, _ mother's milk, and i believe in it now. i_ mother's milk, and i believe in it now, i honestly believe in it. because _ now, i honestly believe in it. because you see, i come from a country— because you see, i come from a country called goa. yeah, yeah. lots of people _ country called goa. yeah, yeah. lots of people go— country called goa. yeah, yeah. lots of people go to goa for the goa experience, i know that. i of people go to goa for the goa experience, i know that. lam half portuguese, half malaysian. due to be portuguese, now it is india. 50,

be portuguese, now it is india. so, anyway, _ be portuguese, now it is india. so, anyway, when we get these kind of stories— anyway, when we get these kind of stories in— anyway, when we get these kind of stories in goa, we just go, oh, my god, _ stories in goa, we just go, oh, my god, i_ stories in goa, we just go, oh, my god, i went — stories in goa, we just go, oh, my god, i went to the same way, but my mother—in—law gave me so much support, — mother—in—law gave me so much support, and because she weighed 3th, support, and because she weighed 3lh. she _ support, and because she weighed 3th, she kept calling him a little ba l 3lb, she kept calling him a little bag of— 3th, she kept calling him a little bag of sugar. 3lb, she kept calling him a little bag of sugar-— 3lb, she kept calling him a little ban ofsuaar. ~ ., , bag of sugar. melba, i am so pleased ou aot bag of sugar. melba, i am so pleased ou not in bag of sugar. melba, i am so pleased you got in touch. _ bag of sugar. melba, i am so pleased you got in touch, your— bag of sugar. melba, i am so pleased you got in touch, your story, - bag of sugar. melba, i am so pleased you got in touch, your story, the - you got in touch, your story, the fact that he is, what, how old his eat, you're walking, talking miracle? y eat, you're walking, talking miracle?— eat, you're walking, talking miracle? g , eat, you're walking, talking miracle? g _ , eat, you're walking, talking miracle? g ., miracle? my miracle baby is 31 now, and he is now _ miracle? my miracle baby is 31 now, and he is now working _ miracle? my miracle baby is 31 now, and he is now working for _ and he is now working for rolls—royce in derbyshire! and he is now working for rolls-royce in derbyshire! and he is now working for rolls—royce in derbyshire! wow! i rolls-royce in derbyshire! wow! i can't believe _ rolls-royce in derbyshire! wow! i can't believe what _ rolls-royce in derbyshire! wow! i can't believe what he _ rolls—royce in derbyshire! lggrrimi i can't believe what he does now, he is a clever— can't believe what he does now, he is a clever old cheeky charlie, he has become a biker as well, but he does _ has become a biker as well, but he does it— has become a biker as well, but he does it for— has become a biker as well, but he does it for children's charities. melba, — does it for children's charities. melba, send him my best regards. oh,

i shall do indeed, white until i tell him. _ i shall do indeed, white until i tell him, he will be so thrilled that— tell him, he will be so thrilled that i— tell him, he will be so thrilled that i talked to you!— that i talked to you! he is the secial that i talked to you! he is the special one! _ that i talked to you! he is the special one! thank _ that i talked to you! he is the special one! thank you - that i talked to you! he is the special one! thank you very l that i talked to you! he is the - special one! thank you very much indeed. joanne in stoke—on—trent, hello. what about that? what about that? what about you? tell us more. yeah, 0k, that? what about you? tell us more. yeah, ok, i had severe pre—eclampsia, so i went to the hospital because i was having some pains and uncomfortable nurse, and within ten minutes of getting to the hospital, they were hooking me up to drips and monitors and everything. panic stations, yeah. the drips and monitors and everything. panic stations, yeah.— panic stations, yeah. the neonatal team came — panic stations, yeah. the neonatal team came in _ panic stations, yeah. the neonatal team came in to _ panic stations, yeah. the neonatal team came in to see _ panic stations, yeah. the neonatal team came in to see me _ panic stations, yeah. the neonatal team came in to see me and - panic stations, yeah. the neonatal team came in to see me and said, | team came in to see me and said, this baby might be born today, and i wasjust this baby might be born today, and i was just absolutely gobsmacked. i was just absolutely gobsmacked. i was 25 weeks pregnant. they kept me

on the monitors and kept me in the hospital, and the next day they rushed me down for an emergency caesarean. so olivia was born at 25 weeks and three days, and she weighed 1lb 5oz, her eyes were still closed, you could see through her skin, she was as big as your hand, really. she was in hospitalfor three months, stoke hospitalfor a number of weeks, and then she had every problem that a neonatal baby could face, she had pleads on the brain, her lungs were not developed properly, she had numerous blood transfusions. she had a condition which is a problem with the guts, the gut is not formed properly. we had to go to liverpool women's

hospital to have her eyes lasered, because they were not developed properly. then she went back to stoke, and she stopped breathing up to ten times a day, and they would have to revive her, which was an absolute nightmare. filth. have to revive her, which was an absolute nightmare.— have to revive her, which was an i absolute nightmare.- then absolute nightmare. oh, god. then she went back _ absolute nightmare. oh, god. then she went back to _ absolute nightmare. oh, god. then she went back to stoke, _ absolute nightmare. oh, god. then she went back to stoke, and - absolute nightmare. oh, god. then she went back to stoke, and the i she went back to stoke, and the doctors said, why has she come back? she is still not well, what have they found there? i said, i do not know, i am they found there? i said, i do not know, iam not they found there? i said, i do not know, i am not a doctor. anyway, we had to have christened that night, she was going to be rushed up to alder hey, they were going to open her stomach up to see what the problem is, and they suggested that we had had her present before she went, because they didn't think she was going to make it... ila. went, because they didn't think she was going to make it. . ._ was going to make it... no. what a thin ou was going to make it... no. what a thing you have _ was going to make it... no. what a thing you have been _ was going to make it... no. what a thing you have been through. - was going to make it. .. no. what a thing you have been through. i - thing you have been through. i can't imagine what that must have been like. i welling up myself. absolute

nightmare. but you got through it. yeah, yeah, we did. you nightmare. but you got through it. yeah, yeah, we did.— yeah, yeah, we did. you got through it. yeah, she — yeah, yeah, we did. you got through it. yeah, she has— yeah, yeah, we did. you got through it. yeah, she hasjust _ yeah, yeah, we did. you got through it. yeah, she hasjust turned - yeah, yeah, we did. you got through it. yeah, she hasjust turned 16. - it. yeah, she has 'ust turned 16. 16. you 0k? you ok? yeah. it brings back some memories- — you ok? yeah. it brings back some memories- of _ you ok? yeah. it brings back some memories. of course _ you ok? yeah. it brings back some memories. of course it _ you ok? yeah. it brings back some memories. of course it does. - you ok? yeah. it brings back some memories. of course it does. what j memories. of course it does. what you have been through, _ memories. of course it does. what you have been through, what- memories. of course it does. what you have been through, what she l you have been through, what she has been through. how is she now? olivia, you said?— been through. how is she now? olivia, you said? yeah, she 'ust doinu olivia, you said? yeah, she 'ust doing her— olivia, you said? yeah, she 'ust doing her exams, i olivia, you said? yeah, she 'ust doing her exams, she �* olivia, you said? yeah, she 'ust doing her exams, she is i olivia, you said? yeah, shejust doing her exams, she is such i olivia, you said? yeah, shejust doing her exams, she is such a| doing her exams, she is such a strong—willed young lady, she really is, from being in hospital when she was first born, she would pull out the wires and everything that were in her arms, the wires and everything that were in herarms, her legs the wires and everything that were in her arms, her legs would be up on her head and everything. so, yeah,

it was an absolute nightmare. unless you have been through anything like this, you will never understand. people think that you get pregnant, that you have a baby and everything is fine. but unless you go through anything like this, you've got no idea whatsoever. i can't thank the staff enough, because the cost, the cost of care for my daughter, absolutely phenomenal, unbelievable. i can't thank people enough for what they did for me and my daughter. yeah. it is care and kindness at its best, when everyone who works in that area instinctively understands, don't they, notjust that area instinctively understands, don't they, not just the that area instinctively understands, don't they, notjust the physical challenges but the emotional challenges?— challenges but the emotional challenues? .,, ., challenges but the emotional challenues? ., , , challenges? oh, gosh, we had babies that were dying _ challenges? oh, gosh, we had babies that were dying around _ challenges? oh, gosh, we had babies that were dying around us _ challenges? oh, gosh, we had babies that were dying around us on - challenges? oh, gosh, we had babies that were dying around us on a - challenges? oh, gosh, we had babies that were dying around us on a day i that were dying around us on a day to day basis. honestly, it was absolutely horrific, absolutely horrific. it is your worst night

more. unless you have gone through anything like this, peoplejust don't understand, they don't understand at all. but don't understand, they don't understand at all. �* ., , ., ., understand at all. but how proud are ou now? understand at all. but how proud are you now? absolutely _ understand at all. but how proud are you now? absolutely amazingly - understand at all. but how proud are l you now? absolutely amazingly proud, she is 'ust you now? absolutely amazingly proud, she isjust doing her— you now? absolutely amazingly proud, she isjust doing her exams _ you now? absolutely amazingly proud, she isjust doing her exams at - she is just doing her exams at the moment, this week, and she is so strong willed, she is absolutely amazing. you know, me and her dad used tojoke about amazing. you know, me and her dad used to joke about how she will be this or that, she will be a right little diva, this, that and the other, and she really is so strong willed, so defined, and if she doesn't want to do something, nobody is going to make her do it. so, yeah, iam is going to make her do it. so, yeah, i am absolutely amazed, so proud, she has turned out exactly how we said she would be, and all we could do was pray at that time. you know, we are not devoted christians

or anything, know, we are not devoted christians oranything, but know, we are not devoted christians or anything, but all we could do was pray, because you have got nothing other than the support and care of the staff and your family. you have got nothing. and that is all you can do, pray. got nothing. and that is all you can do, ra . ~ , got nothing. and that is all you can do, ra .~ , .,, got nothing. and that is all you can do,ra. ., ., ,, got nothing. and that is all you can do,ra. ., ., got nothing. and that is all you can do, ra ., . ., ,, . ., ., do, pray. what does she want to do in life? what _ do, pray. what does she want to do in life? what are _ do, pray. what does she want to do in life? what are her _ do, pray. what does she want to do in life? what are her ambitions? i do, pray. what does she want to do | in life? what are her ambitions? she is not sure. — in life? what are her ambitions? she is not sure. i— in life? what are herambitions? ’sie: is not sure, i think in life? what are herambitions? 5“i;e: is not sure, i think she in life? what are herambitions? 5“i9: is not sure, i think she wants to in life? what are herambitions? 5“i9 is not sure, i think she wants to go down the route of photography and media studies, you know, the childminder that looked after her as a baby said from day one, if she is not on the stage, i will eat my hat! yeah, so yeah, she definitely makes an impression on everybody that she meets. she is such a lovely caring young lady, she is, you know, she's just amazing, she is our miracle, she will always be our little miracle. :, she will always be our little miracle. . ,, miracle. thanks, joanne. she will alwa s be miracle. thanks, joanne. she will always be our— miracle. thanks, joanne. she will always be our little _ miracle. thanks, joanne. she will always be our little miracle. -

miracle. thanks, joanne. she will always be our little miracle. andl always be our little miracle. and thank you to everybody this morning, it has been really magical hearing from you, so powerful as well. what a list of callers, what incredibly powerful and important testimony as well. can't thank you enough. now, this is something that will engage, i know. everybody has a view on this. it's going to be a very gridlocked and grisly day on the roads today. i think they call it the great getaway. so, we have got for you chief constablejo shiner, the national police chiefs' council lead for roads. i think you will have things to ask. she will talk about road strategy, what needs to change. you can give her your theories. maybe she will have a light bulb moment. a traffic light bulb moment, maybe we should press

for that. you can change legislation, who knows? i don't really need to tell you what may well come out. it's up to you, though. get in touch. we will put you through to her. that is coming up. that was some last hour. here is the news. 11 people have been arrested by police in northern ireland investigating the attempted murder of a senior officer. detective chief inspectorjohn caldwell was shot and critically injured at a sports complex in omagh in february. the bbc�*s been told a maternity unit run by the east kent hospitals trust was almost shut down after a damning report by inspectors. the trust said safety concerns were immediately addressed at the william harvey hospital in

ashford. nationwide building society has become the latest lender to increase some mortgage rates — amid concerns about inflation. it's putting up rates on fixed deals for new borrowers by up to 0.45 percentage points. and a former soldier is aiming to set a new world record — by camping on an uninhabited rock in the atlantic, 230 miles from the nearest land. cam cameron will attempt to spend 60 days on rockall, to raise money for veteran's charities. let me welcomejo. chief constablejo shiner — national police chief's council lead for roads policing — is here to take your calls. good morning. good morning, thank ou for

good morning. good morning, thank you for having _ good morning. good morning, thank you for having me — good morning. good morning, thank you for having me on _ good morning. good morning, thank you for having me on your _ good morning. good morning, thank you for having me on your show. - you for having me on your show. we cannot wait, because when you go around and people say, you know, socially, what do you do when you say that you are the police chief council leader paul roads policing? i bet some questions follow? it is alwa s a i bet some questions follow? it is always a topic _ i bet some questions follow? it is always a topic of _ i bet some questions follow? it 3 always a topic of interest for everybody. and that's a great thing, though, because we encourage everybody talking about it. most of us use the public space, roads, cyclists, horse riders, cars. there is always a topic that somebody wants to raise with me. i is always a topic that somebody wants to raise with me.- is always a topic that somebody wants to raise with me. i bet. you should do — wants to raise with me. i bet. you should do this, _ wants to raise with me. i bet. you should do this, you _ wants to raise with me. i bet. you should do this, you should - wants to raise with me. i bet. you should do this, you should do - wants to raise with me. i bet. you| should do this, you should do that! be prepared for that for the next hour as well. a couple of things i want to ask you about. i know you can't talk about specific cases. let me talk about this before we hear from our callers. an 11—year—old boy taken to hospital in a critical condition after being hit by a

police van in lancashire. also we had the two teenagers whose deaths led to riots in cardiff, and also a woman hit by a police motorcycle escorting the duchess of edinburgh through london. she has now died. away from those specific cases, give me an idea of the training that goes in to police in those situations, in similar situations, and also the protocols? oi similar situations, and also the protocols?— similar situations, and also the rotocols? _, , , :, , protocols? of course, my thoughts are with all — protocols? of course, my thoughts are with all of _ protocols? of course, my thoughts are with all of those _ protocols? of course, my thoughts are with all of those families - are with all of those families involved in those cases. you are right, i can't talk about any of those, norwould right, i can't talk about any of those, nor would it be right to do so. but it is important that we do emphasise how much training does go into all aspects of policing, when it relates to driving. and there are various different levels of driver training that our officers take part in, and on some occasions police staff as well. we really have done a

huge amount in order to make sure that we scrutinise that, both independently and within the service. and that we continue to try to improve that, and respond, where there is learning to do so.— there is learning to do so. thank ou for there is learning to do so. thank you for that- _ there is learning to do so. thank you for that. another _ there is learning to do so. thank you for that. another couple, i you for that. another couple, what do you think about... i'm thinking of the top of my head, high profile politician, security detail, wanted to have a one—on—one driver awareness course. is that an easy thing to should he or she take the points, do the course, which would you recommend in that situation? well, i am sure you would not expect me to comment that kind of situation. me to comment that kind of situation-— me to comment that kind of situation. �* . ~ ., ., situation. i'm talking about a hypothetical— situation. i'm talking about a hypothetical situation. - situation. i'm talking about a hypothetical situation. what | situation. i'm talking about a | hypothetical situation. what i situation. i'm talking about a - hypothetical situation. what i think is absolutely _ hypothetical situation. what i think is absolutely right _ hypothetical situation. what i think is absolutely right is that _ hypothetical situation. what i think is absolutely right is that what - hypothetical situation. what i think is absolutely right is that what it i is absolutely right is that what it has done is it has brought about a really helpful discussion around speed, and around how it is really important that people do make sure that they recognise just how serious

speed is in relation to the impact on the roads, really. so, speed awareness courses are a really, really good way of educating people, and most people who go on those courses actually go into them a little bit reluctantly, if i'm honest with you, but actually come out the other side of them saying i have really learned something from those and i will definitely be a better driver as a result. the fact that any hypothetical situation has generated a conversation around road safety, around speed... 50 generated a conversation around road safety, around speed...— safety, around speed... so do the course, rather _ safety, around speed... so do the course, rather than _ safety, around speed... so do the course, rather than the _ safety, around speed... so do the course, rather than the points, i safety, around speed... so do the l course, rather than the points, you would recommend the course? the seed would recommend the course? i“i9 speed awareness course, the national motorway course, the bike awareness course, they are all courses which improve the way in which people perceive the roads. what people decide to do on individual circumstances is absolutely down to them. but those courses are designed to improve the way in which people drive and ride on our roads. thahk drive and ride on our roads. thank ou ve drive and ride on our roads. thank

you very much- — drive and ride on our roads. thank you very much. let's _ drive and ride on our roads. thank you very much. let's go _ drive and ride on our roads. thank you very much. let's go straight i drive and ride on our roads. thank| you very much. let's go straight to it or stop can i ask everybody to be brief and pithy as you can so we can get as much in here. let's take it to the max. actually, let's not. nickel in chelmsford, and ben in worthing coming up.— worthing coming up. excellent, thanks, nikki. _ worthing coming up. excellent, thanks, nikki. thanks, - worthing coming up. excellent, thanks, nikki. thanks, jo. - worthing coming up. excellent, i thanks, nikki. thanks, jo. middle lane drivers on the motorway for me. i do a lot of motorway driving and i find myself quite often either stuck on the inside lane, because there is no one in it, or having to go around people who are sitting in the middle lane, into the fast lane, and then speed to get back round over to the inside lane, as we are guided to any highway code. inside lane, as we are guided to any highway code-— highway code. what is your direct cuestion? highway code. what is your direct question? direct _ highway code. what is your direct question? direct question, - highway code. what is your direct question? direct question, how i highway code. what is your direct| question? direct question, how do highway code. what is your direct - question? direct question, how do we deal with people _ question? direct question, how do we deal with people who _ question? direct question, how do we deal with people who are _ question? direct question, how do we deal with people who are middle - question? direct question, how do we dealwith people who are middle lane| deal with people who are middle lane drivers, whojust get deal with people who are middle lane drivers, who just get into that middle lane and off they go, no need for smart motorways, we need smart

drivers. how do we achieve that? great question. i drivers. how do we achieve that? great question.— drivers. how do we achieve that? great question. i really agree with ou, we great question. i really agree with you. we do _ great question. i really agree with you. we do need _ great question. i really agree with you, we do need smarter- great question. i really agree with you, we do need smarter drivers. | you, we do need smarter drivers. driving _ you, we do need smarter drivers. driving and — you, we do need smarter drivers. driving and safety on our roads is all about— driving and safety on our roads is all about taking personal responsibility. it's about making sure that — responsibility. it's about making sure that you know the highway code, you do— sure that you know the highway code, you do recognise where some of the dangers— you do recognise where some of the dangers lie — you do recognise where some of the dangers lie and where you could actually — dangers lie and where you could actually induce, if you like, frustrations amongst other drivers, who then _ frustrations amongst other drivers, who then may take risks which create collisions _ who then may take risks which create collisions. we do quite a lot of enforcement in terms of that, but it is really— enforcement in terms of that, but it is really important that each person who gets _ is really important that each person who gets behind the wheel is responsible for their driving. that's— responsible for their driving. that's great. ben in worthing? hi, nikki. m that's great. ben in worthing? h , nikki. my question is that's great. ben in worthing? h, nikki. my question is sort of around the focus on speeding, dead links in with the previous i guess. ifind many people would consider they are the drivers because they don't speed. but you can see examples of them sitting in the middle lane and so on, but also the enforcement. you

will see a number of cameras on the motorway, majora roads, but will see a number of cameras on the motorway, major a roads, but when i apply to the police, and i think i was directed to the council about a speed camera on my 25 mph limit road, i was told there has to be a certain number of fatalities for that to be in place. it kind of feels like putting a speed camera on a faster road is there for revenue. the focus on speed, i think there needs to be more education so that people are better drivers don'tjust think, well, i'm not speeding, so i must be ok. think, well, i'm not speeding, so i must be 0k-_ think, well, i'm not speeding, so i must be ok._ thej must be ok. chief constable? the more education _ must be ok. chief constable? the more education around _ must be ok. chief constable? the more education around speed, - must be ok. chief constable? the| more education around speed, the better~ _ more education around speed, the better~ i_ more education around speed, the better. i mean, this is great because _ better. i mean, this is great because your callers, it is the message _ because your callers, it is the message is that we do, the more that we can— message is that we do, the more that we can raise _ message is that we do, the more that we can raise the awareness that speed _ we can raise the awareness that speed can — we can raise the awareness that speed can kill, and the faster a vehicle — speed can kill, and the faster a vehicle is— speed can kill, and the faster a vehicle is going in an accident, in a collision. — vehicle is going in an accident, in a collision, in certain conditions, then— a collision, in certain conditions, then the — a collision, in certain conditions, then the greater the harm will probably— then the greater the harm will probably be within that. so,

then the greater the harm will probably be within that. 50, speed awareness — probably be within that. 50, speed awareness is about exactly that. and it is important. there are certain criteria _ it is important. there are certain criteria in— it is important. there are certain criteria in relation to how and where — criteria in relation to how and where speed cameras of all different varieties _ where speed cameras of all different varieties of which there are many now. _ varieties of which there are many now. can — varieties of which there are many now. can be _ varieties of which there are many now, can be used. but ultimately, a speed _ now, can be used. but ultimately, a speed limiter is not a target. and that is— speed limiter is not a target. and that is how— speed limiter is not a target. and that is how some drivers see it. it is really— that is how some drivers see it. it is really important that people drive _ is really important that people drive to — is really important that people drive to the road conditions, and to their— drive to the road conditions, and to their level— drive to the road conditions, and to their level of experience, and all of those — their level of experience, and all of those factors that go into making sure that _ of those factors that go into making sure that we keep our roads safe, collectively, together.— collectively, together. ben, i feel ou want collectively, together. ben, i feel you want to _ collectively, together. ben, i feel you want to come _ collectively, together. ben, i feel you want to come back? - collectively, together. ben, i feel you want to come back? done - collectively, together. ben, i feel you want to come back? done a l collectively, together. ben, i feel- you want to come back? done a speed awareness course. _ you want to come back? done a speed awareness course, and _ you want to come back? done a speed awareness course, and i _ you want to come back? done a speed awareness course, and i probably - awareness course, and i probably have an opposing view to the kind of going in with a negative attitude and coming up positive. because i feel that the only focus of that course was driving slowly, or driving more slowly. so, i'll be open, i got done doing 86 on the motorway, but it was dry, fine conditions, there was a van on the bridge. i guess the bigger problem

is, maybe when you get pulled over by a policeman, which seems to happen very infrequently these days just because of resources. i'm not pointing fingers at the police, i know they have a tough job, and i support them in that enforcement. but the fact is, on that course, the guy there was a not a police driver, so he was not a skilled driver. as far as i know, the guy that i had to queue my one was a driving instructor. the only message was, how fast do get caught speeding. i said, 86. he was flabbergasted and the whole of the rest of the course was basicallyjust drive up to 30 miles an hour. that was it. there was nothing particularly about kind of awareness. driving is something i take pride in. i've done driving courses, defensive driving courses, car control courses and things like that. maybe i am a bit fast on the motorway, but i would say in the right conditions that is not a big

problem. right conditions that is not a big roblem. , ., _, :, , problem. driving to the conditions noes problem. driving to the conditions aoes both problem. driving to the conditions goes both ways? _ problem. driving to the conditions goes both ways? welcome - problem. driving to the conditions goes both ways? welcome if - problem. driving to the conditions goes both ways? welcome if the l goes both ways? welcome if the motorway is _ goes both ways? welcome if the motorway is empty _ goes both ways? welcome if the motorway is empty and - goes both ways? welcome if the motorway is empty and i'm - goes both ways? welcome if the | motorway is empty and i'm doing goes both ways? welcome if the - motorway is empty and i'm doing 86, i don't see a problem with that. i said you were coming on, jo, i was ina said you were coming on, jo, i was in a taxi the other day, and i said to the guy, his name was alan, what would you ask? it's similar to that. if i am in a 20, why should i be done for doing 23, when the roads are clear, when it's dry, and i can get three points on my licence. and this is my business, this is my livelihood. surely there should be some allowance?— livelihood. surely there should be some allowance? speed limits are there for a — some allowance? speed limits are there for a reason. _ some allowance? speed limits are there for a reason. while - some allowance? speed limits are there for a reason. while you - some allowance? speed limits are there for a reason. while you say. there for a reason. while you say you're _ there for a reason. while you say you're doing 86, if something were to happen — you're doing 86, if something were to happen and you say the motorway is clear. _ to happen and you say the motorway is clear. but— to happen and you say the motorway is clear, but it is clear until a dog — is clear, but it is clear until a dog runs _ is clear, but it is clear until a dog runs out from the side, it is clear— dog runs out from the side, it is clear until— dog runs out from the side, it is clear until something happens. the fact you're — clear until something happens. the fact you're doing 86 will significantly increase the level of

injury— significantly increase the level of injury to — significantly increase the level of injury to yourself or to others if something than appears. speed kills. let's be _ something than appears. speed kills. let's be really frank about that. last _ let's be really frank about that. last year. — let's be really frank about that. last year, nearly 1700 people died on our— last year, nearly 1700 people died on our roads. that is completely unacceptable. speed was a contributory factor to that in the vast majority of those cases. we do need _ vast majority of those cases. we do need people to be very aware that speed _ need people to be very aware that speed kills. we do have speed limits in this— speed kills. we do have speed limits in this country at the moment. if there _ in this country at the moment. if there is— in this country at the moment. if there is a — in this country at the moment. if there is a national debate that people — there is a national debate that people want to have about whether there _ people want to have about whether there should be national limits, that's— there should be national limits, that's a — there should be national limits, that's a completely different subject. at the moment, it's really important — subject. at the moment, it's really important that we educate and we make _ important that we educate and we make sure — important that we educate and we make sure that people are driving appropriately, and to the limits that are — appropriately, and to the limits that are in _ appropriately, and to the limits that are in place, and according to the road _ that are in place, and according to the road conditions. are that are in place, and according to the road conditions.— the road conditions. are cars too fast? is there _ the road conditions. are cars too fast? is there too _ the road conditions. are cars too fast? is there too much - the road conditions. are cars too i fast? is there too much celebration of speed? fast? is there too much celebration of seed? : . fast? is there too much celebration ofseed? : , ., fast? is there too much celebration ofseed? : ,., :, , of speed? vehicles are only as fast as the person _ of speed? vehicles are only as fast as the person who _ of speed? vehicles are only as fast as the person who drives _ of speed? vehicles are only as fast as the person who drives them. i of speed? vehicles are only as fast | as the person who drives them. it's not a _ as the person who drives them. it's not a that— as the person who drives them. it's not a that kill or injure people. vehicles — not a that kill or injure people. vehicles are inanimate objects. it's the person— vehicles are inanimate objects. it's the person who is behind the wheel who should be taking responsibility

for their— who should be taking responsibility for their behaviour, and for how fast they— for their behaviour, and for how fast they are driving, or whether they are — fast they are driving, or whether they are under the influence of drink. — they are under the influence of drink, drugs all of the other things _ drink, drugs all of the other thins. �* :, :, :, :, things. i've got to move it on, we are gridlocked. _ things. i've got to move it on, we are gridlocked. very _ things. i've got to move it on, we are gridlocked. very quickly, - things. i've got to move it on, we are gridlocked. very quickly, go i things. i've got to move it on, we i are gridlocked. very quickly, go on? i was going to say is a good point about the driver of the car. if you see an article in the paper that kills person, bmw or audi kills person, it was not the bmw or the audi, it was the person behind the steering wheel that was driving partly that killed the person. thahk partly that killed the person. thank ou ve partly that killed the person. thank you very much _ partly that killed the person. thank you very much indeed, _ partly that killed the person. thank you very much indeed, ben. - you very much indeed, ben. passionate stuff. john in bristol. second, john. good show, this. good topics, i would love to call in but i'm about tojump into anything. i'm a highway consultant and i specialise in walking and cycling design and infrastructure. the design and infrastructure. the design of our roads and streets, the new hierarchy with pedestrians and cyclists at the top. but most motorists have the opinion that cars are the top and don't appreciate we

should be giving way to cyclists and pedestrians at junctions and should be giving way to cyclists and pedestrians atjunctions and other areas. how can the police help to educate and where necessary enforce the priority of cyclists and pedestrians? that is from pete in carmarthenshire. good point. know the highway code and know that you have got to give priority to the cyclists and pedestrians. i take pride in that, because i know the highway code. but that is the kind of thing that not everybody does. johnin of thing that not everybody does. john in bristol, you are a cyclist. ask away. john in bristol, you are a cyclist. ask away-— john in bristol, you are a cyclist. ask away. hi, nicky and jo. so, i live in bristol, _ ask away. hi, nicky and jo. so, i live in bristol, and _ ask away. hi, nicky and jo. so, i live in bristol, and we _ ask away. hi, nicky and jo. so, i live in bristol, and we have - ask away. hi, nicky and jo. so, i| live in bristol, and we have loads of cycle couriers that are riding e—bikes that have clearly been de—restricted in terms of speed, extra batteries attached, they are travelling at motorway speeds without paddling, they normally have their faces partially covered, they jump their faces partially covered, they jump red lights as a matter of course. i understand that there

should be considered as motorway vehicles, they're clearly not restricted to 15 mph that e—bikes should be, generally. policejust appear to ignore them. i don't understand why. ifeel appear to ignore them. i don't understand why. i feel they are a danger to other people and to themselves. jo? iam not going danger to other people and to themselves. jo? i am not going to sit here and pretend there is a panacea — sit here and pretend there is a panacea to this. there is no doubt at all— panacea to this. there is no doubt at all there — panacea to this. there is no doubt at all there has been an absolute explosion— at all there has been an absolute explosion in terms of electrically powered — explosion in terms of electrically powered vehicles of all sorts, here in brighton — powered vehicles of all sorts, here in brighton we have quite a few of the mono— in brighton we have quite a few of the mono boards thatjust have one wheel— the mono boards thatjust have one wheel all— the mono boards thatjust have one wheel all got now electrically powered, they go along the cycle lanes. _ powered, they go along the cycle lanes, across pathways and everything. it is a huge challenge. there _ everything. it is a huge challenge. there is— everything. it is a huge challenge. there is no— everything. it is a huge challenge. there is no doubt about that. the legislation— there is no doubt about that. the legislation has not kept up, if you like. _ legislation has not kept up, if you like. with— legislation has not kept up, if you like, with the technology, and lots and lots _ like, with the technology, and lots and lots of — like, with the technology, and lots and lots of people using them now. so, and lots of people using them now. so. i_ and lots of people using them now. so. i think— and lots of people using them now. so, i think the result of work to do in that— so, i think the result of work to do in that space about understanding

what the — in that space about understanding what the future looks like in terms of the _ what the future looks like in terms of the transport, and making sure that we _ of the transport, and making sure that we have legislation. but most importantly that people understand 'ust importantly that people understand just how _ importantly that people understand just how dangerous they can be, particularly when they are mixed with pedestrians, prams, all sorts of things— with pedestrians, prams, all sorts of things like that. it's definitely an area — of things like that. it's definitely an area that we worry about. fire an area that we worry about. are --eole an area that we worry about. are people aware _ an area that we worry about. £9 people aware of your an area that we worry about. £59 people aware of your priority as a cyclist? i people aware of your priority as a clist? ~ . cyclist? i think it is getting better, quite _ cyclist? i think it is getting better, quite honestly. - cyclist? i think it is getting i better, quite honestly. about cyclist? i think it is getting - better, quite honestly. about cars, no, it is improving. it only takes one or two business to be really aggressive, to become a major problem for us. you know, i cycle frequently and i follow the rules of the road. one of the things about the road. one of the things about the example i have given, and other

cyclists jumping the example i have given, and other cyclistsjumping red lights in bristol, is because we are seen as a bit of a minority, we are seen as all being the same.— bit of a minority, we are seen as all being the same. have you ever 'um the all being the same. have you ever jump the lights? _ all being the same. have you ever jump the lights? no. _ all being the same. have you ever jump the lights? no. the - all being the same. have you ever jump the lights? no. the thing i all being the same. have you ever jump the lights? no. the thing is, i have jump the lights? h9. the thing is, i have done a lot of heated debates in my time, but one of the most heated i can possibly do is a debate about cyclists and cycling. the acrimony there, it is so unnecessary. john, thank you very much indeed. i appreciate it. kevin in chelmsford, and a billionaire coming up as well. kevin, all yours, welcome.- kevin, all yours, welcome. hello, i would like — kevin, all yours, welcome. hello, i would like to _ kevin, all yours, welcome. hello, i would like to tell _ kevin, all yours, welcome. hello, i would like to tell the _ kevin, all yours, welcome. hello, i would like to tell the chief - would like to tell the chief constable my experience. i'm a season ticket holder at ipswich football club and i live in essex. after the last game the lease must go after the last game the lease must 9° " after the last game the lease must go —— the last home game, my wife and i were travelling across the aa

12, came across roadworks, and we were hit so hard from behind that our car turned over one and a half times. my wife and i escaped through the sunroof. the a12 was closed for about an hour, after an ipswich match it is very busy. two ambulances, a fire engine and four five police cars turned up. my wife was taken to hospital on a stretcher. we got home after a taxi ride up to 3am. my £44,000 car, with less than 1000 miles, was written off. my wife was still having physiotherapy eight months later. i'd just like to ask the chief constable what she thinks the driver who did it, who hit us so hard that it turned the car over, what suffolk police gave him? would you like to

gas? police gave him? would you like to as? ~ , ~. police gave him? would you like to as? : , :, :, police gave him? would you like to as? ~ , :, :, :, gas? well, definitely not going to cuess gas? well, definitely not going to auess at a gas? well, definitely not going to guess at a judicial _ gas? well, definitely not going to guess at a judicial outcomes, - gas? well, definitely not going to guess at a judicial outcomes, but| gas? well, definitely not going to i guess at a judicial outcomes, but my thoughts _ guess at a judicial outcomes, but my thoughts go to you for being involved _ thoughts go to you for being involved in that incident. not really interested _ involved in that incident. h9t really interested in that, he got a driving course, which cost him £90, which you can do from home. you do get a quarter of an hour break. i was absolutely appalled. because you are talking about people who are using the telephones, which they shouldn't do, i admit, they get fined £200 and six penalty points. this bloke got nothing. suffolk police didn't choose to investigate it properly. they didn't check if he was using his phone or not. when i said, why didn't you, well, nobody was seriously injured. well, the last time i saw my wife, she was on a stretcher going to a&e with suspected spinal damage. beholds me to sa that suspected spinal damage. beholds me to say that suffolk _ suspected spinal damage. beholds me to say that suffolk police _ suspected spinal damage. beholds me to say that suffolk police are _ suspected spinal damage. beholds me to say that suffolk police are not - to say that suffolk police are not here. ~ :, :, here. well, get them on, i would love to have _ here. well, get them on, i would love to have a _ here. well, get them on, i would love to have a debate! _ here. well, get them on, i would love to have a debate! when - here. well, get them on, i would

love to have a debate! when you| when i said to live like heard jo shiner, suffolk police have a female head of police. shiner, suffolk police have a female head of police-— shiner, suffolk police have a female head of police. justice must be seen to be done. — head of police. justice must be seen to be done, there _ head of police. justice must be seen to be done, there must _ head of police. justice must be seen to be done, there must be - to be done, there must be consistency?— to be done, there must be consistency? to be done, there must be consisten ? ., , , , consistency? there absolutely must be, we consistency? there absolutely must be. we work — consistency? there absolutely must be, we work really _ consistency? there absolutely must be, we work really hard _ consistency? there absolutely must be, we work really hard to - consistency? there absolutely mustj be, we work really hard to influence some _ be, we work really hard to influence some of— be, we work really hard to influence some of the — be, we work really hard to influence some of the sentencing outcomes for road —related crime. and there are some _ road —related crime. and there are some that — road —related crime. and there are some that we really do want to see increased _ some that we really do want to see increased as well, because of the outcomes — increased as well, because of the outcomes. it's really interesting when _ outcomes. it's really interesting when you — outcomes. it's really interesting when you actually compare the deaths on our— when you actually compare the deaths on our roads— when you actually compare the deaths on our roads with other deaths that are criminally inflicted, and actually _ are criminally inflicted, and actually the sentences which then come _ actually the sentences which then come out — actually the sentences which then come out of that. they are normally much. _ come out of that. they are normally much. much — come out of that. they are normally much, much less in terms of things like death— much, much less in terms of things like death by dangerous driving, particularly if there is aggravating factors— particularly if there is aggravating factors such as drink and drugs. 50, absolutely— factors such as drink and drugs. 50, absolutely i — factors such as drink and drugs. 50, absolutely i think that sentencing should _ absolutely i think that sentencing should be increased where we can do so for— should be increased where we can do so for collisions. you should be increased where we can do so for collisions.— so for collisions. you can

understand _ so for collisions. you can understand kevin's - so for collisions. you can | understand kevin's anger so for collisions. you can i understand kevin's anger or so for collisions. you can _ understand kevin's anger or anybody else in that situation.— else in that situation. completely. i know you — else in that situation. completely. i know you suffered _ else in that situation. completely. i know you suffered a _ else in that situation. completely. i know you suffered a tragedy - else in that situation. completely. i know you suffered a tragedy in i i know you suffered a tragedy in your family, i know you suffered a tragedy in yourfamily, yourfather i know you suffered a tragedy in your family, your father died i know you suffered a tragedy in yourfamily, yourfather died in a road accident. because of that, informing your life, you have a real passion about this issue? i do, informing your life, you have a real passion about this issue?— passion about this issue? i do, i do. you know, _ passion about this issue? i do, i do. you know, my— passion about this issue? i do, i do. you know, my father - passion about this issue? i do, i do. you know, my father served passion about this issue? i do, i. do. you know, my father served in the raf _ do. you know, my father served in the raf for— do. you know, my father served in the raf for many years, in bomb disposal. — the raf for many years, in bomb disposal, ironically, survived that, and then— disposal, ironically, survived that, and then came out and he was killed on his— and then came out and he was killed on his way— and then came out and he was killed on his way to work one morning, when i was _ on his way to work one morning, when i was a _ on his way to work one morning, when i was a teenager. on his way to work one morning, when i was a teenager-— on his way to work one morning, when i was a teenager._ so, - on his way to work one morning, when i was a teenager._ so, i - iwas a teenager. dreadful. so, i have sort — iwas a teenager. dreadful. so, i have sort of _ iwas a teenager. dreadful. so, i have sort of lived _ iwas a teenager. dreadful. so, i have sort of lived this _ iwas a teenager. dreadful. so, i have sort of lived this first - iwas a teenager. dreadful. so, i have sort of lived this first hand, really. _ have sort of lived this first hand, really, which means i have a huge amount— really, which means i have a huge amount of— really, which means i have a huge amount of empathy with those families— amount of empathy with those families that go through losing a loved _ families that go through losing a loved one — families that go through losing a loved one in a collision on the roads — loved one in a collision on the roads. because it is therefore the rest of— roads. because it is therefore the rest of your— roads. because it is therefore the rest of your life, for all of your family. — rest of your life, for all of your family. for— rest of your life, for all of your family, for everything that happens. that is— family, for everything that happens. that is why— family, for everything that happens. that is why i am so passionate about making _ that is why i am so passionate about making sure — that is why i am so passionate about making sure that we can, should and must _ making sure that we can, should and must continue to make a real difference in this area. and of

course mobile _ difference in this area. and of course mobile phones, - difference in this area. and of course mobile phones, lots i difference in this area. and ofj course mobile phones, lots of difference in this area. and of - course mobile phones, lots of anger about mobile phones. if you are off duty and see somebody with a mobile phonein duty and see somebody with a mobile phone in the car, or texting, what do you do about it? eo, phone in the car, or texting, what do you do about it?— phone in the car, or texting, what do you do about it? so, a number of forces in the — do you do about it? so, a number of forces in the country _ do you do about it? so, a number of forces in the country now, _ do you do about it? so, a number of forces in the country now, if- forces in the country now, if you have. _ forces in the country now, if you have. which— forces in the country now, if you have, which more and more people do now, have, which more and more people do now. the _ have, which more and more people do now, the ability for that is to be videoed. — now, the ability for that is to be videoed, obviously without touching, your satnav _ videoed, obviously without touching, your satnav is connected and stuff like that. — your satnav is connected and stuff like that. in— your satnav is connected and stuff like that, in sussex, we have operation _ like that, in sussex, we have operation crackdown, where you can upload _ operation crackdown, where you can upload the _ operation crackdown, where you can upload the footage when you get home. _ upload the footage when you get home. if— upload the footage when you get home, if it is clear and evidential, we will— home, if it is clear and evidential, we will assess that and take action. is it ok— we will assess that and take action. is it ok to _ we will assess that and take action. is it ok to film it from the pavement with your mobile? you can film it and upload _ pavement with your mobile? you can film it and upload it. _ pavement with your mobile? you can film it and upload it. of— film it and upload it. of course, you have — film it and upload it. of course, you have to— film it and upload it. of course, you have to be mindful about your own personal safety of the situation, and everything like that. what _ situation, and everything like that. what it— situation, and everything like that. what it won't do is guarantee an outcome. — what it won't do is guarantee an outcome, because it will need to be

assessed. _ outcome, because it will need to be assessed, and other evidential circumstances. of course, we want to try and _ circumstances. of course, we want to try and make — circumstances. of course, we want to try and make sure that we dissuade people _ try and make sure that we dissuade people from driving while they are distracted, with that as mobile phones — distracted, with that as mobile phones or— distracted, with that as mobile phones or other things that are increasingly within our vehicles. what _ increasingly within our vehicles. what about the cyclists going along texting and stuff like that? the same law applies?— same law applies? yes, i am a clist same law applies? yes, i am a cyclist myself. _ same law applies? yes, i am a cyclist myself. not _ same law applies? yes, i am a cyclist myself. not very - same law applies? yes, i am a cyclist myself. not very fast, i same law applies? yes, i am a i cyclist myself. not very fast, but same law applies? yes, i am a - cyclist myself. not very fast, but a cyclist _ cyclist myself. not very fast, but a cyclist nonetheless. i'm always slightly— cyclist nonetheless. i'm always slightly bemused by people who are not fully— slightly bemused by people who are not fully concentrating on the road and their— not fully concentrating on the road and their cycling surroundings, even if they— and their cycling surroundings, even if they feel— and their cycling surroundings, even if they feel in control, it is others _ if they feel in control, it is others around then they should be aware _ others around then they should be aware of — others around then they should be aware of. our advice is if you are on the _ aware of. our advice is if you are on the road. _ aware of. our advice is if you are on the road, you should be concentrating on what you and others are doing. _ concentrating on what you and others are doing, that is your personal responsibility to do so.- responsibility to do so. billy, in a r. responsibility to do so. billy, in ayr- hello. _ responsibility to do so. billy, in ayr. hello, how— responsibility to do so. billy, in ayr. hello, how are _ responsibility to do so. billy, in ayr. hello, how are you - responsibility to do so. billy, in ayr. hello, how are you doing? j responsibility to do so. billy, in - ayr. hello, how are you doing? good morninu. ayr. hello, how are you doing? good morning- good _

ayr. hello, how are you doing? good morning. good morning. _ ayr. hello, how are you doing? good morning. good morning. my - ayr. hello, how are you doing? good morning. good morning. my point i ayr. hello, how are you doing? good morning. good morning. my point is| morning. good morning. my point is in relation to — morning. good morning. my point is in relation to the _ morning. good morning. my point is in relation to the police _ morning. good morning. my point is in relation to the police assisting - in relation to the police assisting those that are vulnerable. i'm partially sighted. i am an epileptic, and i have additional support needs. the situation and going to talk about is one that i was personally involved in, i was walking down the high street and a beggar tried to ask me for money. i repeatedly said no. but this guy was not taking no for an answer. it got to the stage where the guy was being verbally aggressive, and physically aggressive. i managed to seek shelter in a nearby greggs of all places, and someone sitting in the greggs tried to help me. they called the police, because they felt that was the way that was the best way forward. the police arrived and

managed to deal with individual in question. my main question is what do you feel, do you feel that the police in the uk and in scotland, wherever it may be, are doing enough to help those who are vulnerable. those with learning disabilities, the blind, the deaf etc. do you feel the blind, the deaf etc. do you feel the police are doing enough to help those clusters honourable? i suppose ou could those clusters honourable? i suppose you could say — those clusters honourable? i suppose you could say that _ those clusters honourable? i suppose you could say that pavement - those clusters honourable? i suppose you could say that pavement parking | you could say that pavement parking as well. . . you could say that pavement parking as well. , ., , you could say that pavement parking as well. , . , ., ., you could say that pavement parking aswell. , . ,. ., , , ., as well. yes, that is a real bugbear of mine. as well. yes, that is a real bugbear of mine- i — as well. yes, that is a real bugbear of mine. i cannot _ as well. yes, that is a real bugbear of mine. i cannot tell _ as well. yes, that is a real bugbear of mine. i cannot tell you - as well. yes, that is a real bugbear of mine. i cannot tell you how - as well. yes, that is a real bugbear| of mine. i cannot tell you how many times i have been in the front seat, in a car, helping a driver look for a space, and i've seen people parking up without a blue badge. i even remember having an argument with somebody, saying to the individual, you have not got a blue

badge, yourfive individual, you have not got a blue badge, your five seconds to move before i call the traffic warning. you have five seconds before i call the local traffic wardens. and they went, i'm entitled to park here. do you have a blue badge? no, you don't. :, �* :, :, , don't. you've got to be careful, let me ut it don't. you've got to be careful, let me put it to _ don't. you've got to be careful, let me put it to lo — don't. you've got to be careful, let me put it to jo. it _ don't. you've got to be careful, let me put it to jo. it is _ don't. you've got to be careful, let me put it to jo. it is a _ don't. you've got to be careful, let me put it to jo. it is a matter - don't. you've got to be careful, let me put it to jo. it is a matter of i me put it tojo. it is a matter of courtesy, isn't it? understanding? it is, it is courtesy it's the respect _ it is, it is courtesy it's the respect we have already talked about — respect we have already talked about. the respect and responsibility for other people around — responsibility for other people around you in that environment. that is what _ around you in that environment. that is what it— around you in that environment. that is what it comes down to. | around you in that environment. that is what it comes down to.— is what it comes down to. i miss that, is what it comes down to. i miss that. billy? _ is what it comes down to. i miss that, billy? i've _ is what it comes down to. i miss that, billy? i've been _ is what it comes down to. i miss that, billy? i've been partially i that, billy? i've been partially siuhted that, billy? i've been partially sighted for— that, billy? i've been partially sighted for 28 _ that, billy? i've been partially sighted for 28 years, - that, billy? i've been partially sighted for 28 years, and - that, billy? i've been partially sighted for 28 years, and i - that, billy? i've been partially i sighted for 28 years, and i faced that, billy? i've been partially - sighted for 28 years, and i faced a lot of discrimination through my

life, because i'm a young man. a lot of folks think that because i'm a young man, i'm taking the mick, and i'm pretending to be blind. if i was older, say in my 30s, 405, 50s i'm pretending to be blind. if i was older, say in my 305, 405, 505 or older, say in my 305,405,505 or 605, people would not take the mick. because i'm a young man, people think that. :, , , because i'm a young man, people thinkthat. , , , think that. people can be pretty terrible sometimes. _ think that. people can be pretty terrible sometimes. billy, - think that. people can be pretty| terrible sometimes. billy, thank you. appreciate it. sam in portsmouth?— you. appreciate it. sam in portsmouth? :, , portsmouth? hi, nicky, how is it uuoin? portsmouth? hi, nicky, how is it going? it's— portsmouth? hi, nicky, how is it going? it's good- _ portsmouth? hi, nicky, how is it going? it's good. what - portsmouth? hi, nicky, how is it going? it's good. what would i portsmouth? hi, nicky, how is it| going? it's good. what would you like to say to _ going? it's good. what would you like to say to the _ going? it's good. what would you like to say to the top _ going? it's good. what would you like to say to the top cop? - going? it's good. what would you like to say to the top cop? it - going? it's good. what would you | like to say to the top cop? it would 'ust be like to say to the top cop? it would just be interesting _ like to say to the top cop? it would just be interesting to _ like to say to the top cop? it would just be interesting to hear - like to say to the top cop? it would just be interesting to hear evil's i just be interesting to hear evil's thoughts about this. over half of new cars sold are suvs and cro55over5. they are pretty big vehicles that used to be niche, but now you're seeing them more and more on our roads cities. lots of councils in the country are investing more money into making cities more friendly for pedestrians

and cyclists, making cities more car —dependent. as somebody who drives on somebody who cycles a lot, with so many of these massive vehicles with bigger blind spots on the road, passing cyclists a lot more closely, i think it's going to make it a lot more difficult to achieve that goal, because these vehicles are just unnecessarily massive, they have a lot more emissions as well than regular cars. and if you are going to get hit by, for example, a ford fiesta, versus a land rover discovery, even at the same speed, i think i would be easy to guess which one is more likely to kill you. i do understand _ one is more likely to kill you. i do understand why _ one is more likely to kill you. i do understand why people are living in the country and may need them, that is different situation.— is different situation. absolutely. in the country. — is different situation. absolutely. in the country, where _ is different situation. absolutely. in the country, where the - is different situation. absolutely. in the country, where the roads l is different situation. absolutely. i in the country, where the roads are a lot worse, it is totally understandable. that is where we used to find these vehicles. now if you go to any big city, especially affluent ones, these big vehicles

are everywhere. litaliiiii affluent ones, these big vehicles are everywhere.— are everywhere. will today call chelsea tractors? _ are everywhere. will today call chelsea tractors? yes. - are everywhere. will today call chelsea tractors? yes. i- are everywhere. will today call chelsea tractors? yes. i will. are everywhere. will today call- chelsea tractors? yes. i will throw another one in. ritchie? we have the suvs, the big cars, then you, and thenjo's answer. i suvs, the big cars, then you, and then jo's answer.— then jo's answer. i would like to ask jo, then jo's answer. i would like to askjo. in _ then jo's answer. i would like to askjo. in her— then jo's answer. i would like to askjo, in her opinion, _ then jo's answer. i would like to askjo, in her opinion, as - then jo's answer. i would like to askjo, in her opinion, as a - then jo's answer. i would like to | askjo, in her opinion, as a coach driver i have to go into the classroom every five years for 35 hours, get re—educated. now, my suggestion, i've said this for years, we are meant to renew our drivers licenses every ten years. i don't know how many people actually don't know how many people actually do or not. but i actually believe that when people come into their licence, they should do like i do, going to the classroom, we have to do seven hours, have a speed awareness course, 4.5 or five hours, he re—educated. how many people be re—educated. how many people

after passing their driving test, genuinely have had any other education? unless they do a speed awareness course they get nothing. jo thinks that is a brilliant idea! i am _ jo thinks that is a brilliant idea! i am a — jo thinks that is a brilliant idea! i am a huge advocate for trying to make _ i am a huge advocate for trying to make sure — i am a huge advocate for trying to make sure that we put prevention collision — make sure that we put prevention collision. whether or not that is a young _ collision. whether or not that is a young drivers, and you have heard lots of— young drivers, and you have heard lots of talk— young drivers, and you have heard lots of talk around the gradual, progressive driving licences, whatever we want to call them, but it is slightly ironic that often we put the — it is slightly ironic that often we put the prevention after the incident _ put the prevention after the incident has occurred, whether that is an offence, a collision or something else. sol is an offence, a collision or something else. so i agree with you wholeheartedly, that there should be more to— wholeheartedly, that there should be more to make sure that people are both fit— more to make sure that people are both fit and — more to make sure that people are both fit and able and skilled and aware _ both fit and able and skilled and aware enough to be able to continue to drive _ aware enough to be able to continue to drive on— aware enough to be able to continue to drive on the roads.—

to drive on the roads. suvs, too bi , too to drive on the roads. suvs, too big. too big _ to drive on the roads. suvs, too big. too big for _ to drive on the roads. suvs, too big, too big for the _ to drive on the roads. suvs, too big, too big for the city, - to drive on the roads. suvs, too big, too big for the city, too - big, too big for the city, too dangerous? i think it comes back to the earlier point that it is not the suv the earlier point that it is not the su , , , ,:, suv itself, it is the person behind the wheel who _ suv itself, it is the person behind the wheel who perhaps _ suv itself, it is the person behind the wheel who perhaps is - suv itself, it is the person behind the wheel who perhaps is too - the wheel who perhaps is too impatient to wait for the right time when _ impatient to wait for the right time when they— impatient to wait for the right time when they can pass that cyclist with the right _ when they can pass that cyclist with the right amount of space between them _ the right amount of space between them and — the right amount of space between them and the cycle is to solve the cyclist _ them and the cycle is to solve the cyclist is — them and the cycle is to solve the cyclist is not vulnerable, and this is where — cyclist is not vulnerable, and this is where it— cyclist is not vulnerable, and this is where it comes back yet again to the behaviours and the attitude of the behaviours and the attitude of the person he was behind the wheel. let me _ the person he was behind the wheel. let me just _ the person he was behind the wheel. let me just to some texts into the news, no need to answer, just food for thought here. on four lane motorways, why can't hgvs be limited to be first two lines? at present, the first three can be blocked by these vehicles. thank you, mel these vehicles. thank you, met in cheshire. top cop question, how can police cope with the increase in

drink and drug driving, speeding, and insured drivers, bravo for doing and insured drivers, bravo for doing a very hard job. we will leave it on that, more to come. 08085 909 693, the top roads cop is with us, jo shiner, what is your question, what is your point? get in touch. and here is the news from al tansley. police in northern ireland say they've arrested 11 people in connection with attempted murder of a senior officer. detective chief inspectorjohn caldwell was shot and critically injured at a sports complex in omagh in february. president zelensky says one person has been killed in a russian missile strike on a hospital in the ukrainian city of dnipro. 15 other people were reportedly injured in the attack. the police watchdog has begun an investigation after an 11—year—old boy was hit by a police van in lancaster, leaving him in a critical condition in hospital. lancashire police said the vehicle

was responding to an emergency call when the incident happened last night. and some costumes and props from this year's eurovision song contest will be auctioned off by the bbc. bidding on 60 items will start next week. it's part of a drive to make the corporation more sustainable. liverpool forward mo salah says there's no excuse for them missing out on a place in next season's champions league. manchester united's 4—1win at home to chelsea last night means liverpool will play in the europa league. salah, in a social media post, says they've let the fans down. manchester united have an injury concern over winger antony after he left the pitch in tears last night with what appeared to be a lower leg injury. united take on manchester city in the fa cup final a week tomorrow. 43 fans have been banned by az alkmar after they attacked west ham supporters after the europa conference league semifinal. britain's cameron norrie will play his third successive clay—court semifinal later. he takes on francisco cerundulo

on the last four at the lyon open. the french open gets under way on sunday. and it's the weekend of formula 1's iconic monaco grand prix. you can listen to first practice on 5 sports extra from 12:25. jo shiner is with us, the chief

constable who is the national lead on road policing, a quick text question, what about... where is it? i will have to paraphrase it, i will read it here. please askjo what she thinks of motorists who drive with music turned up to 11, what do you think about that? is that detrimental to concentration, jo? there are some really interesting studies that show, depending on what music you are listening to will depend how you drive, and how careful you might be. but without going into those, you know... it is not so much _ going into those, you know... it is not so much that, _ going into those, you know... it is not so much that, it _ going into those, you know... it is not so much that, it is the boom boom boom... it not so much that, it is the boom boom boom...— not so much that, it is the boom boom boom... it is highly unlikely to reach the _ boom boom... it is highly unlikely to reach the decibels _ boom boom... it is highly unlikely to reach the decibels rate - boom boom... it is highly unlikely to reach the decibels rate which i to reach the decibels rate which would be illegal, i would suggest, so why some people might choose to do that, and it might be anti—social in some people's is, for others it is enjoyment, so a difficult one to comment on from a roads policing perspective. comment on from a roads policing persmctive-_ perspective. what is your favourite boom boom _ perspective. what is your favourite boom boom music in _ perspective. what is your favourite boom boom music in the _ perspective. what is your favourite

boom boom music in the car? - perspective. what is your favourite boom boom music in the car? i- boom boom music in the car? i do actually genuinely _ boom boom music in the car? i 99 actually genuinely like classical music and radio 2, i'm getting to that age! music and radio 2, i'm getting to that ace! �* . music and radio 2, i'm getting to that ale! 3 . music and radio 2, i'm getting to that ace! �*, ., ., :, that age! let's have another one, and we have _ that age! let's have another one, and we have got _ that age! let's have another one, and we have got mark _ that age! let's have another one, and we have got mark in - that age! let's have another one, and we have got mark in the - that age! let's have another one, i and we have got mark in the wirral, what would you like to ask? good morning. nicky. _ what would you like to ask? good morning, nicky, thanks _ what would you like to ask? good morning, nicky, thanks for - what would you like to ask? good morning, nicky, thanks fortaking the call. — morning, nicky, thanks fortaking the call, hello, jo. morning, nicky, thanks for taking the call, hello, jo.— morning, nicky, thanks for taking the call, hello, jo. morning, nicky, thanks for taking l the call, hello, jo._ i the call, hello, jo. good morning. i was 'ust the call, hello, jo. good morning. i was just wondering _ the call, hello, jo. good morning. i was just wondering if there's - the call, hello, jo. good morning. i was just wondering if there's going | was just wondering if there's going to be _ was just wondering if there's going to be any— was just wondering if there's going to be any form of reintroduction of advertising, not advertising, public information films, that used to have when _ information films, that used to have when i _ information films, that used to have when i was — information films, that used to have when i was a — information films, that used to have when i was a kid, to green cross code _ when i was a kid, to green cross code man— when i was a kid, to green cross code man and the lights, all those adverts. _ code man and the lights, all those adverts, still resonating with me when _ adverts, still resonating with me when i _ adverts, still resonating with me when i am — adverts, still resonating with me when i am driving. i am out on the road— when i am driving. i am out on the road is— when i am driving. i am out on the road is pretty— when i am driving. i am out on the road is pretty much every day a delivery— road is pretty much every day a delivery driver, and one of the things— delivery driver, and one of the things i— delivery driver, and one of the things i have noticed, iagree delivery driver, and one of the things i have noticed, i agree that all the _ things i have noticed, i agree that all the new— things i have noticed, i agree that all the new highway code laws have been a _ all the new highway code laws have been a great improvement to road

safety. _ been a great improvement to road safety. but — been a great improvement to road safety, but one of the biggest things— safety, but one of the biggest things i— safety, but one of the biggest things i have noticed is a lot more people _ things i have noticed is a lot more people just — things i have noticed is a lot more people just stepping out into the road without even looking to see if traffic— road without even looking to see if traffic is _ road without even looking to see if traffic is coming across. when i was listening _ traffic is coming across. when i was listening to — traffic is coming across. when i was listening to this programme earlier, i was _ listening to this programme earlier, i was driving down a national speed limit road. — i was driving down a national speed limit road. i— i was driving down a national speed limit road, i was only doing 20 mph, as it happened, because it was quite twisty— as it happened, because it was quite twisty and _ as it happened, because it was quite twisty and attorney, and there was an elderly— twisty and attorney, and there was an elderly lady standing in the middle—of—the—road, just go on a telephone. — middle—of—the—road, just go on a telephone, having a conversation, hadn't _ telephone, having a conversation, hadn't heard me coming up at all. because _ hadn't heard me coming up at all. because concentration is so much on the phone _ because concentration is so much on the phone conversation, they are not even noticing the traffic any more. hmm~ _ even noticing the traffic any more. hmm. jo? — even noticing the traffic any more. hmm. jo? lt— even noticing the traffic any more. hmm. jo? . . . even noticing the traffic any more. hmm. jo? , . ., , :,, ., hmm. jo? it is a real problem, and ou see hmm. jo? it is a real problem, and you see it— hmm. jo? it is a real problem, and you see it all— hmm. jo? it is a real problem, and you see it all the _ hmm. jo? it is a real problem, and you see it all the time, _ hmm. jo? it is a real problem, and you see it all the time, people - hmm. jo? it is a real problem, and you see it all the time, people with headphones on who cannot hear what is going on around them, talking to their mobile phone or on a microphone, and it comes back again tojust people being microphone, and it comes back again to just people being aware of who and what is around them. and trying

to make sure they are concentrating, not just on to make sure they are concentrating, notjust on their own safety, but actually on that of others as well, because, you know, in those circumstances you talked about, you would have had to have bright, and that could have caused a collision with somebody else. once again, i keep saying it because it is really important, that is where we are trying to change minds and behaviour, because we need people to recognise that their behaviour impacts others in the public space, particularly around roads and fast—moving vehicles. particularly around roads and fast-moving vehicles.- particularly around roads and fast-moving vehicles. have you ever had road rage. _ fast-moving vehicles. have you ever had road rage, jo? _ fast-moving vehicles. have you ever had road rage, jo? i— fast-moving vehicles. have you ever had road rage, jo? i have _ fast-moving vehicles. have you ever had road rage, jo? i have never- fast-moving vehicles. have you ever had road rage, jo? i have never had| had road rage, jo? i have never had road rage. — had road rage, jo? i have never had road rage. i— had road rage, jo? i have never had road rage. i can _ had road rage, jo? i have never had road rage, i can honestly— had road rage, jo? i have never had road rage, i can honestly say, - had road rage, jo? i have never had road rage, i can honestly say, i- had road rage, jo? i have never had road rage, i can honestly say, i am| road rage, i can honestly say, i am quite a sedate driver and a trained police driver. i am still an operational officer, i still drive about. �* :, :, , about. boiling on the inside but calm on the _ about. boiling on the inside but calm on the surface? _ about. boiling on the inside but calm on the surface? i - about. boiling on the inside but calm on the surface? i try - about. boiling on the inside but calm on the surface? i try and l calm on the surface? i try and rationalise _ calm on the surface? i try and rationalise it. _ calm on the surface? i try and rationalise it. that _ calm on the surface? i try and rationalise it. that is - calm on the surface? i try and rationalise it. that is what - calm on the surface? i try and rationalise it. that is what we | calm on the surface? i try and i rationalise it. that is what we are trained to do, that is what we are trying to do, so i have done 30 years in policing now, and a whole

amount of training, so it helps sometimes. i am amount of training, so it helps sometimes. iam not amount of training, so it helps sometimes. i am not a great passenger, my husband would tell you, i am always giving him advice. that is an insult! margaret, good morning to you. that is an insult! margaret, good morning to you-— that is an insult! margaret, good morninuto ou. :, :, morning to you. good morning, hello. what would — morning to you. good morning, hello. what would you _ morning to you. good morning, hello. what would you like _ morning to you. good morning, hello. what would you like to _ morning to you. good morning, hello. what would you like to ask— morning to you. good morning, hello. what would you like to askjo? - morning to you. good morning, hello. what would you like to askjo? i - what would you like to askjo? i have been driving about 45 years now. _ have been driving about 45 years now. i'm — have been driving about 45 years now. i'm 70 _ have been driving about 45 years now, i'm 70 years old, i have got a very— now, i'm 70 years old, i have got a very tiny— now, i'm 70 years old, i have got a very tiny car. — now, i'm 70 years old, i have got a very tiny car, and i have done two speeding — very tiny car, and i have done two speeding awareness courses because i have been— speeding awareness courses because i have been tile tailgate, and that went into — have been tile tailgate, and that went into a 40 mph zone where the car was _ went into a 40 mph zone where the carwas right up went into a 40 mph zone where the car was right up behind me, overtook me with _ car was right up behind me, overtook me with tow— car was right up behind me, overtook me with tow cars coming towards me, and i don't _ me with tow cars coming towards me, and i don't know what to do, because it is intimidating. so what do you do? : , :, . :, do? and you are doing the right thing. she _ do? and you are doing the right thing. she is— do? and you are doing the right thing, she is doing _ do? and you are doing the right thing, she is doing the - do? and you are doing the right i thing, she is doing the right thing, jo? i thing, she is doing the right thing, jo? . , :, . :, jo? i am refusing to get another seedin: jo? i am refusing to get another speeding awareness _ jo? i am refusing to get another speeding awareness course, - jo? i am refusing to get another speeding awareness course, i i jo? i am refusing to get another. speeding awareness course, i will let them — speeding awareness course, i will let them take the flak. but when you

are an _ let them take the flak. but when you are an older— let them take the flak. but when you are an older person in a tiny car and— are an older person in a tiny car and you— are an older person in a tiny car and you have got, like one of your previous— and you have got, like one of your previous caller said, massive great vehicles _ previous caller said, massive great vehicles coming up behind you, then sometimes _ vehicles coming up behind you, then sometimes they flash their lights, i have had _ sometimes they flash their lights, i have had the v sign given to me, all of it _ have had the v sign given to me, all of it. : .., have had the v sign given to me, all of it. : . have had the v sign given to me, all of it. ~ , . , , of it. and it can be incredibly, incredibly _ of it. and it can be incredibly, incredibly intimidating, - of it. and it can be incredibly, incredibly intimidating, and i of it. and it can be incredibly, i incredibly intimidating, and that of it. and it can be incredibly, - incredibly intimidating, and that is why quite often in policing, we will use unmarked vehicles, as well as marked vehicles. i was out in an unmarked vehicle with a colleague last week, and we had exactly that behaviour which came up behind our unmarked police vehicle. filth, behaviour which came up behind our unmarked police vehicle. oh, really? i want to hear— unmarked police vehicle. oh, really? i want to hear about _ unmarked police vehicle. oh, really? i want to hear about this! _ unmarked police vehicle. oh, really? i want to hear about this! so - unmarked police vehicle. oh, really? i want to hear about this! so you - i want to hear about this! so you got tailgated in an unmarked vehicle by some character, and then what happened, you got out to speak to them? talk me through what happened. yeah, absolutely, it happens quite a bit, and so... yeah, absolutely, it happens quite a bit. and so...—

bit, and so... how did you stop the car? how — bit, and so... how did you stop the car? how did _ bit, and so... how did you stop the car? how did you _ bit, and so... how did you stop the car? how did you initiate _ bit, and so... how did you stop the car? how did you initiate the - car? how did you initiate the conversation? irate car? how did you initiate the conversation?— car? how did you initiate the conversation? . , :, ,, conversation? we stopped the car in the normal way _ conversation? we stopped the car in the normal way that _ conversation? we stopped the car in the normal way that we _ conversation? we stopped the car in | the normal way that we would, using our blues and everything, then we talked to them. so you have, effectively, blues on the vehicle, and talk to them about the man of the driving. the most common response, most of my colleagues would tell you, well, we didn't know it was a police car. of course, that means they have missed the point entirely, so the education that we are able to give, and sometimes they will be reported for offences, sometimes it leads to other offences, another mile down the road on that particular day, we stopped another vehicle that was driving in another vehicle that was driving in a really irresponsible way, and they tested positive for drugs. so they were arrested. so that is why we use unmarked cars as well as marked cars, because we are able to educate and prosecute, but it is really intimidating, particularly for

drivers who perhaps are not as confident as some of us. margaret, ou are confident as some of us. margaret, you are right. _ confident as some of us. margaret, you are right. an — confident as some of us. margaret, you are right, an important - confident as some of us. margaret, you are right, an important point i confident as some of us. margaret, j you are right, an important point to raise, but can you imagine the tailgating that went on withjo, she knocks on the window and says, hello, i am jo knocks on the window and says, hello, i amjo shiner, the uk lead for road policing, can you imagine the shock they must have had? thank you for your call, margaret. thahk you for your call, margaret. thank ou, you for your call, margaret. thank ou. jo. you for your call, margaret. thank you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. - you for your call, margaret. thank you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom - you for your call, margaret. thank you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom in i you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom in ashford. — you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom in ashford, hello. _ you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom in ashford, hello. ask— you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom in ashford, hello. ask away! - you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom in ashford, hello. ask away! look, you, jo, nicky, bye-bye. tom in. ashford, hello. ask away! look, i live near heathrow— ashford, hello. ask away! look, i live near heathrow airport, - ashford, hello. ask away! look, i live near heathrow airport, near. ashford, hello. ask away! look, i. live near heathrow airport, near the m25 _ live near heathrow airport, near the m25 now. — live near heathrow airport, near the m25. now, if! live near heathrow airport, near the m25. now, if i drive any short distance — m25. now, if i drive any short distance on the m25, i come under the control— distance on the m25, i come under the control of surrey police, the metropolitan police, and possibly the thames valley police. now, i heard _ the thames valley police. now, i heard about the accident earlier that one — heard about the accident earlier that one of your callers had, and i was horrified at the response to it, a very. _ was horrified at the response to it, a very. very— was horrified at the response to it, a very, very serious accident, and i

would _ a very, very serious accident, and i would like — a very, very serious accident, and i would like the chief constable's view is — would like the chief constable's view is that, as they have in germany. _ view is that, as they have in germany, to have a national highway police _ germany, to have a national highway police force _ germany, to have a national highway police force that would patrol and control— police force that would patrol and control all— police force that would patrol and control all the motorways, so you would _ control all the motorways, so you would get — control all the motorways, so you would get an evenly trained group dealing _ would get an evenly trained group dealing with things at the same time _ dealing with things at the same time. . ,, _ :, time. yeah, consistency, back to that one. — time. yeah, consistency, back to that one. jo- _ time. yeah, consistency, back to that one, jo. that's _ time. yeah, consistency, back to that one, jo. that's right, - time. yeah, consistency, back to that one, jo. that's right, yes! i time. yeah, consistency, back to i that one, jo. that's right, yes! so, we obviously _ that one, jo. that's right, yes! so, we obviously work _ that one, jo. that's right, yes! so, we obviously work really _ that one, jo. that's right, yes! so, we obviously work really closely i we obviously work really closely with highways england, and whilst they are not a police force, they are an enforcement agency that we work closely with strategic network, particularly to manage the fluidity of it as it as much as anything else. but it is really interesting, when we talk about that consistency, because it almost matters not what road you are on... when you look at the fatalfour of road you are on... when you look at the fatal four of title five, as it is sometimes referred to now, the drink, drugs, seat belts, mobile phones, speed, anti—social driving, a driver who is likely to do any one

of those things on a motorway is just as likely to have the attitude to do those on other country lanes or other kind of roads. so it is the behaviours that we need to tackle and address, as opposed to necessarily the bespoke types of roads. . roads. the drug driving thing is massive, roads. the drug driving thing is massive. it _ roads. the drug driving thing is massive, it is _ roads. the drug driving thing is massive, it is something - roads. the drug driving thing is massive, it is something that l roads. the drug driving thing is massive, it is something that i | roads. the drug driving thing is - massive, it is something that i see a lot, it is on a programme i am involved with on channel 5, motorway cups, very common for people to have weighed in a car, or driving under the influence. it weighed in a car, or driving under the influence.— the influence. it is, sadly, far too common. and _ the influence. it is, sadly, far too common, and it _ the influence. it is, sadly, far too common, and it is _ the influence. it is, sadly, far too common, and it is very _ the influence. it is, sadly, far too common, and it is very much - the influence. it is, sadly, far too common, and it is very much on. the influence. it is, sadly, far too i common, and it is very much on the increase, and it is something we did a big campaign on it at the end of last year, but it is something we tackle every single day. every shift that i have been out on recently, with my colleagues, within a couple of hours, we have arrested somebody under the influence of drugs every time. it is a real challenge, and we

need to make it really socially unacceptable, as well as drink—driving as well. we need to tackle it, we do our very best to do so at the moment, but people must understand it is not ok, it is not ok to get behind the wheel under the 0k to get behind the wheel under the influence of drink or drugs. hoof ok to get behind the wheel under the influence of drink or drugs.— influence of drink or drugs. how did ou feel influence of drink or drugs. how did you feel when _ influence of drink or drugs. how did you feel when you _ influence of drink or drugs. how did you feel when you saw— influence of drink or drugs. how did you feel when you saw rishi - influence of drink or drugs. how did you feel when you saw rishi sunakl you feel when you saw rishi sunak without a seat belt? i you feel when you saw rishi sunak without a seat belt?— without a seat belt? i think that it is really clear— without a seat belt? i think that it is really clear that _ without a seat belt? i think that it is really clear that you _ without a seat belt? i think that it is really clear that you should - without a seat belt? i think that it is really clear that you should be l is really clear that you should be wearing a seat belt... is really clear that you should be wearing a seat belt. . ._ is really clear that you should be wearing a seat belt... where you an: wearing a seat belt... where you angry when _ wearing a seat belt... where you angry when you _ wearing a seat belt... where you angry when you saw _ wearing a seat belt... where you angry when you saw that? - wearing a seat belt... where you angry when you saw that? it - angry when you saw that? it definitely provoked a discussion around seat belt that i thought was really helpful. around seat belt that i thought was really helpful-— really helpful. let's get a tax question from _ really helpful. let's get a tax question from caroline, - really helpful. let's get a tax question from caroline, from merseyside, i am worried about how quiet electric cars are and how this will work for people who cannot see. thanks, caroline. jo? so will work for people who cannot see. thanks, caroline. jo?— thanks, caroline. jo? so when we talk with the _ thanks, caroline. jo? so when we talk with the industry, _ thanks, caroline. jo? so when we talk with the industry, which - thanks, caroline. jo? so when we talk with the industry, which we i thanks, caroline. jo? so when we i talk with the industry, which we do, and very constructively as well, i think that has very much been

recognised, and so quite a number of them, the warning signs, the beeps and everything have improved in some of the models that are coming out, but we need to make sure we keep the pressure on so that those people who may be hearing impaired, any safety features that can reduce carrier —— ksis, we continue to improve. michael, this is an interesting one, on you go. mi; michael, this is an interesting one, on you go— michael, this is an interesting one, on ouuo. g ,:, ,:, :, on you go. my question is to do with dazzlin: on you go. my question is to do with dazzling headlights. _ on you go. my question is to do with dazzling headlights. i— on you go. my question is to do with dazzling headlights. i am _ on you go. my question is to do with dazzling headlights. i am 80 - dazzling headlights. i am 80 years of age _ dazzling headlights. i am 80 years of age and i have been driving for many. _ of age and i have been driving for many, many years. but recently i have — many, many years. but recently i have noticed that i keep getting dazzled — have noticed that i keep getting dazzled when driving at night time. initially. _ dazzled when driving at night time. initially. i— dazzled when driving at night time. initially, i thought it was probably my eyesight, but i've had a recent ow test _ my eyesight, but i've had a recent ow test and — my eyesight, but i've had a recent ow test and been reassured by the optician _ ow test and been reassured by the optician at— ow test and been reassured by the optician. at that lead to a conversation about the number of people _ conversation about the number of people that have complained to her

about _ people that have complained to her about the _ people that have complained to her about the very same thing. ijust wondered — about the very same thing. ijust wondered what, if anything, is being done to— wondered what, if anything, is being done to address that.— done to address that. yeah, thanks ever so much. _ done to address that. yeah, thanks ever so much, michael. _ done to address that. yeah, thanks ever so much, michael. jo? - done to address that. yeah, thanks ever so much, michael. jo? some i done to address that. yeah, thanks| ever so much, michael. jo? some of the new vehicles _ ever so much, michael. jo? some of the new vehicles have _ ever so much, michael. jo? some of the new vehicles have the _ the new vehicles have the automatic headlights so that they dip and rise automatically, and i think we definitely noticed an increase in terms of some of the conversations, some of the noise around this, and in fact there was a discussion with one of the youth forum is the other day, so i don't think it isjust you, it is definitely others that have noticed it, and we will continue to try to understand and also make people aware where they need to make sure that they deem their headlights so that they do not dazzle other drivers. this their headlights so that they do not dazzle other drivers.— dazzle other drivers. this is a text, i dazzle other drivers. this is a text. i cycle _ dazzle other drivers. this is a text, i cycle daily, _ dazzle other drivers. this is a text, i cycle daily, drive - text, i cycle daily, drive occasionally, and the standard of road users getting so much worse, our neighbour drives for his job, and the absolute stench of strong weighed emanating from his house

around 8:30 in the morning is unbelievable, then he hits the road at nine, that is from lee in london. sorry, could you...?— sorry, could you...? please report it. sorry, could you...? please report it- please — sorry, could you...? please report it. please report _ sorry, could you...? please report it. please report that _ sorry, could you...? please report it. please report that in. _ sorry, could you...? please report it. please report that in. by - it. please report that in. by reporting — it. please report that in. by reporting that _ it. please report that in. by reporting that in, _ it. please report that in. by reporting that in, you - it. please report that in. by| reporting that in, you might it. please report that in. by - reporting that in, you might save someone's life.— reporting that in, you might save someone's life. . , ,:, someone's life. yeah, his neighbour, sure. one someone's life. yeah, his neighbour, sure- one from _ someone's life. yeah, his neighbour, sure. one from tim _ someone's life. yeah, his neighbour, sure. one from tim in _ someone's life. yeah, his neighbour, sure. one from tim in blackpool, - sure. one from tim in blackpool, drivers who fit exhaust that make lots of noise, will they be targeted? so lots of noise, will they be targeted?— lots of noise, will they be tarueted? ., targeted? so there are some quite comlex targeted? so there are some quite complex rules _ targeted? so there are some quite complex rules around _ targeted? so there are some quite complex rules around noise, - targeted? so there are some quite complex rules around noise, both | targeted? so there are some quite i complex rules around noise, both for motorbikes and also for vehicles, and so whilst we do take some action around that and we have a huge problem here in sussex, on the south downs, it is a real attraction to people driving for leisure, if you like, at the weekend. it is really complex in terms of what we can actually do around that. so we continue to try and advise and

enforce where we can. i continue to try and advise and enforce where we can. i agree with --eole, i enforce where we can. i agree with people. i agree — enforce where we can. i agree with people, i agree with _ enforce where we can. i agree with people, i agree with jo, people - enforce where we can. i agree with i people, i agree with jo, people need people, i agree withjo, people need to be responsible, respectful, stopping in such a hurry, society, notjust roads. literallyjust had a bmw supercar come past us doing over 80 whilst using both hands on his phone on the steering wheel, weaving his way up the road, crossing the centreline, what if an idiot like that crashes into us? tom, a yorkshireman in perthshire. lots of what about people talking hands—free, when it is all in the system and you don't have to pick your hands up?— system and you don't have to pick your hands up? excellent work has emerued your hands up? excellent work has emerged from _ your hands up? excellent work has emerged from a _ your hands up? excellent work has emerged from a study _ your hands up? excellent work has emerged from a studyjust - your hands up? excellent work has| emerged from a studyjust recently to show, led by dr helen wells and others, that actually there is as much destruction, if you like, by people having conversations as they can be using their phones, and i

think some of the figures are, you know, in terms of the amount of concentration that is lost, it is about 30% of concentration lost. my advice would be that when you are driving, concentrate on driving, because it is more important that you reach a similar safely and everybody else on the road reaches someone safely than you do have that phone call. someone safely than you do have that hone call. ~ . someone safely than you do have that hone call. . . ., ,:, someone safely than you do have that hone call. . . ., ., ., ., :, phone call. what about talk radio, b which i phone call. what about talk radio, by which i mean _ phone call. what about talk radio, by which i mean radio _ phone call. what about talk radio, by which i mean radio on - phone call. what about talk radio, by which i mean radio on which i by which i mean radio on which people talk, shouting at the radio? is that the same thing? a lot of people do that when i am on, jo. what about that? i people do that when i am on, jo. what about that?_ people do that when i am on, jo. what about that? i think that it is fair to say i _ what about that? i think that it is fair to say i am _ what about that? i think that it is fair to say i am may _ what about that? i think that it is fair to say i am may have - what about that? i think that it is| fair to say i am may have shouted what about that? i think that it is i fair to say i am may have shouted at the radio in the past! hopefully, i have also been concentrating on my driving as well, but particularly where people are having professional conversations, where they are needing to interact, think about it, make decisions et cetera, those are the ones that are really distracting.—

the ones that are really distractina. . ., distracting. paul near hull, good mornina! distracting. paul near hull, good morning! how — distracting. paul near hull, good morning! how are _ distracting. paul near hull, good morning! how are you _ distracting. paul near hull, good morning! how are you doing? i distracting. paul near hull, good i morning! how are you doing? fine, have ou morning! how are you doing? fine, have you ever— morning! how are you doing? fine, have you ever shouted at _ morning! how are you doing? fine, have you ever shouted at the - morning! how are you doing? fine, | have you ever shouted at the radio? er... i have shouted at the driver in front — er... i have shouted at the driver in front i— er... i have shouted at the driver in front. . , :, er... i have shouted at the driver in front. , , :, ., er... i have shouted at the driver in front. , ., : ., in front. i bet you have! what do ou want in front. i bet you have! what do you want to _ in front. i bet you have! what do you want to say _ in front. i bet you have! what do you want to say to _ in front. i bet you have! what do you want to say to jo? _ in front. i bet you have! what do you want to say to jo? basically, in front. i bet you have! what do - you want to say to jo? basically, my son received — you want to say to jo? basically, my son received two _ you want to say to jo? basically, my son received two penalties - you want to say to jo? basically, my son received two penalties in - son received two penalties in his first eu — son received two penalties in his first eu use, so we will get his licence — first eu use, so we will get his licence revoked. so my question... i do think. _ licence revoked. so my question... i do think, depending on the severity of the _ do think, depending on the severity of the offence, he was caughtjust do think, depending on the severity of the offence, he was caught just a few miles _ of the offence, he was caught just a few miles an hour over, and obviously— few miles an hour over, and obviously the young lad got a... how does he _ obviously the young lad got a... how does he get — obviously the young lad got a... how does he get to that job, obviously the young lad got a... how does he get to thatjob, just purely because _ does he get to thatjob, just purely because it — does he get to thatjob, just purely because it is £6. if he was doing 45 mph in _ because it is £6. if he was doing 45 mph in a _ because it is £6. if he was doing 45 mph in a 30 — because it is £6. if he was doing 45 mph in a 30 through the village or past _ mph in a 30 through the village or past i— mph in a 30 through the village or past... i would say, you know, definitely. _

past... i would say, you know, definitely, he has to suffer and ban _ definitely, he has to suffer and ban but— definitely, he has to suffer and ban. but the village i am thinking of, ban. but the village i am thinking of. as— ban. but the village i am thinking of. as you — ban. but the village i am thinking of, as you go around the bend, the si-n of, as you go around the bend, the sign is _ of, as you go around the bend, the sign is like — of, as you go around the bend, the sign is like 30, so you go around the bend — sign is like 30, so you go around the bend and you are still a long way from — the bend and you are still a long way from the village, but the police are around — way from the village, but the police are around the corner, so if he was slowing _ are around the corner, so if he was slowing down, 36 mph from 60, slowing — slowing down, 36 mph from 60, slowing down, 36 mph from 60, slowing down for the village, they catch him — slowing down for the village, they catch him. and he is an inexperienced driver, yeah, i understand that we need to slow young _ understand that we need to slow young boys down, but i think that is a little _ young boys down, but i think that is a little bit _ young boys down, but i think that is a little bit of entrapment, do you know what — a little bit of entrapment, do you know what i mean?— a little bit of entrapment, do you know what i mean? entrapment, jo? lookinu know what i mean? entrapment, jo? lookin: in know what i mean? entrapment, jo? looking in white? _ know what i mean? entrapment, jo? looking in white? he _ know what i mean? entrapment, jo? looking in white? he is _ know what i mean? entrapment, jo? looking in white? he is an _ looking in white? he is an inexperienced _ looking in white? he is an inexperienced driver - looking in white? he is an inexperienced driver and i looking in white? he is an i inexperienced driver and the looking in white? he is an - inexperienced driver and the limit is 30 mph, you have said, so an inexperienced driver should be taken, arguably, even more consideration around making sure that he is able to react to anything. if it was someone who came

out just after that, anything. if it was someone who came outjust after that, then he would cause more injury to them. and, actually, there was road policing officers who were standing there are the same offices, brilliant, brilliant offices, most of our offices, who are the same officers who have two, day in, day out, go to some really tragic scenes of killed and seriously injured people. and so they know only too well what impact execs speed, drink and drugs and all those other things have. —— excess speed. i those other things have. -- excess seed. . . those other things have. -- excess seed. ., , those other things have. -- excess seed. . , ., speed. i am 'ust looking at so many calls for speed. i am just looking at so many calls for you. _ speed. i am just looking at so many calls for you, jo, you _ speed. i am just looking at so many calls for you, jo, you could - speed. i am just looking at so many calls for you, jo, you could be - speed. i am just looking at so many calls for you, jo, you could be here | calls for you, jo, you could be here all day and we would still be getting calls! this is a text from mark in teddington, is it illegal for cyclists to be wearing headphones? i for cyclists to be wearing headphones?— for cyclists to be wearing headphones? for cyclists to be wearing headhones? :, �* . headphones? i don't believe it is ille . al headphones? i don't believe it is illegal but... _ headphones? i don't believe it is illegal but... should _ headphones? i don't believe it is illegal but... should it _ headphones? i don't believe it is illegal but... should it be? - headphones? i don't believe it is illegal but... should it be? but i headphones? i don't believe it is i illegal but... should it be? but you should be in _ illegal but... should it be? but you should be in full— illegal but... should it be? but you should be in full control _ illegal but... should it be? but you should be in full control of - illegal but... should it be? but you

should be in full control of that - should be in full control of that pedal cycle, of that vehicle, of that mechanical vehicle et cetera. so there is lots of shoulds and crudes and masters in relation to road regulation, but| crudes and masters in relation to road regulation, but i come back to the basic point i have made all the way through. —— shoulds encodes. way through. —— shoulds you the basic point i have made all the way through. —— shoulds you should be aware of the safety of everyone and your surroundings, and be aware of the safety of everyone and yoursurroundings, and i be aware of the safety of everyone and your surroundings, and i would argue that if you are wearing ear buds and all the rest of it, which personally i would never wear it when i am on a pedal cycle at all, then i think you are increasing the risk of you not hearing somebody or arguably seeing something if you are concentrating on what is going into your ears. concentrating on what is going into our ears. . ., , :, your ears. yeah, i nearly got run over when _ your ears. yeah, i nearly got run over when i— your ears. yeah, i nearly got run over when i was _ your ears. yeah, i nearly got run over when i was listening - your ears. yeah, i nearly got run over when i was listening to - your ears. yeah, i nearly got run i over when i was listening to music when i was running, i don't listen to music when i was running any more, but you do get lost in it sometimes, you need to hear what is going on around you. stewart in nottingham, hello, a quick one if

you could! nottingham, hello, a quick one if ou could! ~ . . nottingham, hello, a quick one if ou could! . . , , :, you could! what is your question? yeah, hi, you could! what is your question? yeah. hi. nicky. _ you could! what is your question? yeah, hi, nicky, i— you could! what is your question? yeah, hi, nicky, i drive— you could! what is your question? yeah, hi, nicky, i drive up- you could! what is your question? yeah, hi, nicky, i drive up the - you could! what is your question? i yeah, hi, nicky, i drive up the m42, and i— yeah, hi, nicky, ! drive up the m42, and i get— yeah, hi, nicky, i drive up the m42, and i get frustrated when lorries try to _ and i get frustrated when lorries try to overtake each other in the lane. _ try to overtake each other in the lane, creating a gap, often 80 or 100 cars — lane, creating a gap, often 80 or 100 cars behind him, and it takes him a— 100 cars behind him, and it takes him a mile— 100 cars behind him, and it takes him a mile and a half to overtake this lorry — him a mile and a half to overtake this lorry. why don't we stop to carriageways on a main road, main trunk— carriageways on a main road, main trunk road. — carriageways on a main road, main trunk road, keep in the left—hand lane _ trunk road, keep in the left—hand lane or— trunk road, keep in the left—hand lane or fine? trunk road, keep in the left—hand lane orfine? jo. there is a real lane or fine? there is a real balance here lane orfine? i9. there is a real balance here between the fluidity of the network, if you make, and people making theirjourneys and also those vehicles that are naturally very slow because of their weight or their make up, so again, it is about those men or women who are driving those men or women who are driving those lorries making the right decision, taking account of how much traffic is around them and currently

they can lawfully overtake. of course, on some motorways, we have the crawler lines, which are well used by those lorries, but at the moment on our road networks, it is about those lorry drivers making the right decision. bhd about those lorry drivers making the right decision-— right decision. and here is a text from steve _ right decision. and here is a text from steve in _ right decision. and here is a text from steve in chelmsford, - right decision. and here is a text from steve in chelmsford, i - right decision. and here is a text | from steve in chelmsford, i want to ask what her view is on films like fast and furious, whether they have an impact on driving, those that celebrate a speed, i suppose. i have never watched _ celebrate a speed, i suppose. i have never watched it, _ celebrate a speed, i suppose. i have never watched it, i _ celebrate a speed, i suppose. i have never watched it, i can _ celebrate a speed, i suppose. i have never watched it, i can honestly - never watched it, i can honestly say, i haven't watched top gear. i think that anything which kind of encourages people to drive faster, if that person may be things their ability matches others that they might say, it can back to the point again that i have made all the way through this show, people need to know and be responsible for their behaviour when they are behind a car, because it is not... it is not

a shell, is it? you could kill or seriously injure somebody if you drive irresponsibly.— drive irresponsibly. here is a good one, julie drive irresponsibly. here is a good one. julie in _ drive irresponsibly. here is a good one, julie in tavistock, _ drive irresponsibly. here is a good one, julie in tavistock, morning. i one, julie in tavistock, morning. what is it?— what is it? right, yeah, i 'ust would like �* what is it? right, yeah, i 'ust would like a i what is it? right, yeah, i 'ust would like a bit i what is it? right, yeah, i 'ust would like a bit more i what is it? right, yeah, ijusti would like a bit more education what is it? right, yeah, ijust- would like a bit more education out there _ would like a bit more education out there for— would like a bit more education out there for people on how they pass horses _ there for people on how they pass horses. there are too many horses and riders — horses. there are too many horses and riders getting injured or worse on the _ and riders getting injured or worse on the roads. a lot seems to be given— on the roads. a lot seems to be given to — on the roads. a lot seems to be given to cyclists on how to pass them. — given to cyclists on how to pass them. but _ given to cyclists on how to pass them, but i really don't think there is enough — them, but i really don't think there is enough education given on how to pass horse _ is enough education given on how to pass horse riders.— pass horse riders. excellent, excellent _ pass horse riders. excellent, excellent one, _ pass horse riders. excellent, excellent one, jo? _ pass horse riders. excellent, excellent one, jo? as - pass horse riders. excellent, excellent one, jo? as a - pass horse riders. excellent, | excellent one, jo? as a horse ride out myself. _ excellent one, jo? as a horse ride out myself. i _ excellent one, jo? as a horse ride out myself, i couldn't _ excellent one, jo? as a horse ride out myself, i couldn't agree - excellent one, jo? as a horse ride out myself, i couldn't agree with i out myself, i couldn't agree with you more. ithink out myself, i couldn't agree with you more. i think there is still a huge amount of work to be done in terms of people understanding that animals can and often react in different ways. there is quite a bit of work ongoing with the british

horse society, i did quite a lot of work last year, i did some work on horse, giving messages around drivers slowing down, sometimes turning off engines and all those things, but also about horse riders being responsible and making sure, of course, when they are on young horses, they make the right decisions about which roads they are on. but i agree that the more education that we can get out there, the better, because we are sadly seeing an increase in terms of the number of horses and riders are injured. number of horses and riders are in'ured. :, ,._ injured. one more text, let me say now, injured. one more text, let me say now. rachel _ injured. one more text, let me say now, rachel and _ injured. one more text, let me say now, rachel and gainsborough, i injured. one more text, let me say i now, rachel and gainsborough, what about new cars and how they controls all seem to be on ipad type screens? 15 seconds. yes, it is a challenge, we need to influence the manufacturers and make sure that the vehicles of the future do not distract from people making safe decisions on the road. i distract from people making safe decisions on the road.— decisions on the road. i nearly crashed my — decisions on the road. i nearly crashed my mum's _ decisions on the road. i nearly crashed my mum's car - decisions on the road. i nearly crashed my mum's car in - decisions on the road. i nearly crashed my mum's car in the i decisions on the road. i nearly - crashed my mum's car in the 19705 by listening to deep purple turned up

to 11, i stick to pc radio 5 live now! thanks, jo, you have been great, jo shiner. live from london, this is bbc news. the family of a british man who was shot in sudan and his wife who later died of starvation say they did not get help from the british embassy. it breaks my heart to think that she died alone, and she died because she was alone, and she is still alone to this very moment. a russian missile strikes a hospital in the ukrainian city of dnipro, killing at least one person and injuring 15. as a deadline looms, reports that democrats and republicans could be close to a deal on raising the us debt ceiling. and newly released documents show the fbi feared that queen elizabeth i! faced

an assassination threat during a 1983 visit to america.