this is bbc news, the headlines: tv presenter holly willoughby says she is hurt after phillip schofield's admission about a relationship with a younger itv colleague, which he previously denied to her. the home office says e—gates are now operating as normal after long delays for some passengers travelling to uk airports. the disruption, which began on friday night, was due to an it issue which is now resolved. it's the final day of campaigning in turkey ahead of one of the country's most divisive presidential elections where the economy and immigration are key voter concerns. huge political rallies have been held to drum up support. ukraine's most senior security official tells the bbc the country is ready to launch its long—expected counter—offensive against russian forces. in a rare interview, oleksiy danilov

describes the planned assault as an "historic opportunity". now on bbc news: amol rajan interviews: watergate to trump. in every trade, there are certain names that are held up as the gold standard. when i started out in newspapers — in fact, for most of the past 50 years — there have been two names that stood apart and stood above any others injournalism. bob woodward and carl bernstein were the reporters at the heart of the watergate scandal, and the subsequent fall of president nixon. therefore, i shall- resign the presidency, effective at noon tomorrow. their investigation into the break—in at democratic offices has become the stuff of legend. it saw them immortalised by hollywood and set the standard forjournalism for decades to come. at one point, i suddenly wondered how high up this thing goes,

and her paranoia finally got to me. i thought what we had was so hot that, any minute, cbs or nbc would come in through the windows to take the story away. you're both paranoid. today, in the age of biden and trump, the echoes of history are strong. but in a country where the first amendment protects freedom of speech, fake news and disinformation are rife and the quest for truth has never been more challenging. so, it is the perfect moment to talk to two icons ofjournalism. bob, carl, it's wonderful to see you. thank you so much for agreeing to speak to us, speak to me, speak to the bbc. there are a lot of people who may be watching you now who were at least partly inspired to become reporters

by you two, and perhaps by hollywood's depiction of you two. and yet, as we sit here now, the trade is in a state of some crisis. trust in news is collapsing. social media has degraded the truth. i wonder if we could start with just a word of inspiration for them. why should young people today, why should anyone, become a reporter? because the truth is the bottom line for anything in your life, in the community you live in, in terms of having comity among people. we need to know what's real, as opposed to what's false. and the press is the essential element in a community of being able to attain that. we started using the phrase 50 years ago, "the best obtainable version of the truth," for what real reporting, realjournalism is. and if you have that, and if you have an audience that is open to the best obtainable version of the truth, and we can talk a little bit about whether that audience still exists the way it did at the time of watergate.

but in the united states, we have the hallowed first amendment. that's right. and it actually operates. and you see what happens in russia to journalists who just seek the truth, and they're gone — they're dead, they're injail. and that is a liberating reality — notjust some time, all the time. shouting onjanuary the 6th, 2021, hundreds of people broke into the congress building on capitol hill in protest at biden�*s election victory. it happened soon after trump addressed his supporters at a rally near the white house. while urging them to march peacefully to the capitol, he also made unsubstantiated claims of massive voter fraud, and some say used incendiary language. and we fight.

we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell, you're not. going to have a country any more. what followed would leave five people dead. how dare you?! you're traitors! a select committee investigation reported none of the events of january the 6th would have happened without trump's involvement. his critics say he incited the group to rebel against the state. what went through your mind when you saw those pictures on january the 6th, 2021, of the rioters storming the capitol? that we had a seditious president of the united states. we write, in the 50th anniversary edition of all the president's men, a new foreword, in which we talk about george washington, the first president of the united states, warning about what can happen if unprincipled men who are after their own wellbeing rather than that of the nation come

to prevail in the presidency. and that happened with nixon. we never thought we would see it with another president. it happened even more so, and even more dangerously, with trump. since you mentioned sedition, and since you mentioned nixon, the prism through which much of the world saw those events onjanuary the 6th was the history that you guys created, to some extent, and reported in 1972 to �*74. it started with a break—in at the watergate building in washington, and the attempts to plant surveillance devices in the democratic national committee offices. it would emerge the burglars were linked to a campaign funded by republicans to sabotage and spy on the democrats. that campaign went all the way to the white house. at the heart of what would become known as the watergate scandal was the investigation and reporting of two then—unknown reporters,

bob woodward and carl bernstein. something very few people even now will fully grasp about the watergate story is just how young you were. 28 and 29 — it's nice to see you smile. you were 28 and 29, right? you were established reporters... and now we're 37. laughter it was barely yesterday! but what's really important is the climate. the poison of the nixon administration was hate. and political hate has become part of the united states. it'sjust not the divisions, it's the intensity. hate is what's driving so much on both sides, but particularly with trump in the group. over the coming decades, the names woodward and bernstein became synonymous with the power of investigative journalism. but for them, the meaning

of watergate continues to evolve as moments of the past meet with the current day. the watergate that we covered in '72, 1973, 74 is not the one that exists now. and the one that exists now is, we realise the nature of richard nixon, the conspiracy. this will drive carl... here he goes! you can cut it out. there it is! but i always... no, no... ilove... he's got it right. ..the documentation. and this is really important to understand who richard nixon was, notjust what he did. what on earth have you got in your hand? what have you got there? i've got a selected copy... he has a copy in every suitjacket! laughterjust in case he's being interviewed by the bbc! it's from one of the nixon tapes.

but this is december 14, 1972. nixon hasjust won a landslide victory. nixon's in the oval office with henry kissinger, his secretary of state. and this is happy time for nixon. and this is literally what nixon says. "remember, we're going to be around, "and outlive our enemies. "and also, never forget — the press is the enemy. "the press is the enemy." both: "the press is the enemy." "the establishment is the enemy. "the professors are the enemy." write that on a blackboard 100 times, and neverforget it. that's nixon. that's donald trump also. that's right. half a century since the watergate scandal, that moment in history continues to permeate the work

of woodward and bernstein, who often cite similarities between trump and nixon. but there is at least one very marked difference. despite two impeachments, trump didn't lose the support of his party — at least not openly. let's look at a story that i did in the third year of the trump presidency, in which... you know, i had heard from people on capitol hill, the chiefs of staffs for so many senators, that their bosses despised donald trump. that they held him in such contempt, including of his intellect, including of his absolute disregard for democracy. so, finally, i did a story, and i named 21 republican senators who held trump in such disregard and contempt. one of them denied it — not telling the truth, that particular denial. and the next day, i got a call... no, but 20 just let it go.

yeah... and what carl said... ..out of50! all of these senators were named. they had the chance to respond. and what carl's report said, "look, they're saying one thing, and they actually "believe passionately the exact opposite". and that he's a danger to democracy! and yet, came time for them to cast their votes for conviction or acquittal, twice, of donald trump in impeachment proceedings — they acquitted him, these same 20 people. it seems to me there are very important differences between nixon and trump. nixon resigned, trump didn't. what, to you, is the key difference between nixon and trump? oh, well, i mean, you know, a panel of psychiatrists in 100 years will still be struggling with that question. to really summarise it, trump looks

at democracy as enemy territory. you go around and talk to people in the biden white house and ask them, "what is your biggest worry?" and their biggest worry is, "are we going to have a democracy?" we have an election coming. are the trump — i think tens of millions of trump supporters — if trump loses and biden wins, what are they going to do? maybe january 6th was merely a warm—up moment. well, before we talk about president biden, let me humbly but firmly push back on some of the criticisms you make of president trump. as we sit here today, president trump is the frontrunner amongst republican candidates. he has raised a huge amount of money — more, i think, even than ron desantis. president biden�*s approval

ratings are at record lows in a poll published, i think by the washington post, last week. more than 70 million people voted for trump in 2020, the second time, after four years of his presidency. and i'd put to you guys that donald trump is actually a remarkably successful politician, if one measure of success is that you have to persuade very large numbers of people to vote for you. i'm not defending anything he might�*ve done. there's no question, you're right. so, isn't the truth that trump is speaking for millions of people who feel completely ignored, maybe even patronised, by what they see as an out—of—touch establishment? maybe he's got something that other people need to learn from? what you just said about an out—of—touch establishment — that's one element of trump's appeal, but only one element. i think we have to be very frank about some of the reporting that we don't do well enough in the united states. let's talk about that, yeah. and that's about the people of the united states, the culture that we live in,

and how trump's ability to motivate people through hatred — that's not the only motivation, but the way that he has summoned the hate within so many people through his incendiary pronouncements, etc. there are also all kinds of reasons why people support donald trump for being president of the united states. we need to be reporting on that, as well. and do you think the mainstream media has failed on that? i think we come very late to it. woodward and bernstein remain at the heart of us journalism today, having written multiple books since watergate about politicians on both sides of the aisle. you guys... ..have given a very hard time to democratic politicians as well. i mean, carl, you wrote in your 2008 book, a woman in charge, "since her arkansas years,

"hillary rodham clinton has always had a difficult "relationship with the truth. "she trims the truth and obfuscates." bob, you've been highly critical of president 0bama. can i ask you about one specific story, which is about hunter biden? hunter biden, the son of the president, is one of the thorns in his father's political side. in october 2020, the new york post published a story saying a laptop had been found belonging to hunter that contained an email indicating he'd introduced a ukrainian energy executive to his father when he was vice president. the paper suggested this indicated hunter's business dealings had improperly influenced american policy. critics, including trump, claim president biden meddled in ukraine to help his son's business interests in the country. "where's hunter?" 0k. "where is hunter? i want to see hunter," ask these men. - hunter, you know- nothing about energy. you know nothing about china. you know nothing about anything, frankly. - hunter, you're a loser.

while the right—wing press seized on it, some say the left—wing media failed to properly act. do you think the hunter biden story has been underplayed? has it received the attention it deserves? i think we haven't done enough digging on the hunter biden story. we have a special prosecutor who is digging. we don't know if there is going to be an indictment of hunter biden. it's certainly possible. i think we should've done more digging, especially once we knew the legitimacy of the laptop. i think that we should've tried to find out what conversations there have been between the president of the united states and his son about this matter. yeah, i think we could've done better. woodward believes large swathes of the media establishment were too quick to step away from the story because important washington players suggested it was a narrative being peddled by vladimir putin.

51 former... ..intelligence executives, the heads of the cia, the director of national intelligence, wrote a letter saying, "all of this business about "hunter biden has the earmarks of russian disinformation," so lots of people dropped it. now, come on. you know, we've been around maybe too long, but when somebody says, "oh, my evidence is, "it has the earmarks of russian disinformation" — what are the earmarks? what's the evidence? huge part of what the best obtainable version of the truth is, is what is the story? and this is an example of it. what the most important thing, in some ways, that a news institution or a reporter does is to decide what is news. and here is an example in which reporters and news

organisations have decided this is not news. you're both near contemporaries of president biden, and you look in great shape to me. how concerned are you, and how concerned should the rest of us be, frankly, by president biden�*s age, by his running for re—election at the age of 80? i think we should be concerned in a country where the median age of the people in the country is 36.7, or about 37, that the two candidates, likely candidates, for president of the united states will be in their 80s while they're in office. it indicates to me notjust a question of physical ability and mental acuity, of which by necessity, by common sense, there is going to be some decline. doesn't mean there can't be great 80—year—olds who occupy all kinds of positions. but how out of touch people of that age, of our age, are with what's going on among most people in our country

who are much younger? the quest for the truth and the importance of investigative journalism was the reason woodward and bernstein were in the uk. they've come to speak at a journalism conference being held in the name of the renowned late british journalist sir harold evans, a former editor of the sunday times. his journalistic investigations included the thalidomide scandal, which exposed how a pill to combat morning sickness caused birth defects. we sat down for a second interview just hours after news had broken that trump had been found liable during a civil trial of sexually abusing a woman in america. and, while shocking, the result — which he is appealing — didn't seem to be having the catastrophic impact on his re—election bid some expected. what is it, carl, what is it about donald trump that means all this bad news, all this controversy that should damage him, ends up firing up his base? i don't think it's just

about donald trump. i think it's about the united states of america, the people of the country, our culture today. and we have to look at it as a whole. and trump has obviously plugged into certain aspects of our culture, our sensibility as a people that is different in many regards than it has been in the past. we are a different people who have absorbed a different set of circumstances and beliefs, and many of those things are anti—democratic. so much turns on, as president, this allegation surfaced. trump's in the oval office, the sacred home, official home, of presidents, and they ask him about it, and the first thing he says, "she's not my type." and then, he says it never happened. now, why, in his mind,

is he saying "she's not my type"? that's irrelevant. i thought it was one of these things where, you know, carl and i always talk about peeling a little bit of what's hidden. and this tells you so much about trump, that's the significance of it. and so, he's involved in all these controversies about... his character. yes, exactly, that's the word. it's about his character, and that is what has distinguished — or undistinguished — his presidency. and ourjob reporting has been, and needs to continue to be, reporting on his character through his actions. in the brief time we have left, you couldn't expect me to interview you guys and not ask at least one question about the future of journalism. because you guys speak

about the future of journalism with great authority, and i care what you think, for good orfor bad. let me read you something. i wonder if you think it's... i wonder if you think it's fair, it's well—written. what do you make of this? "bob woodward and carl bernstein are two of the most "influential journalists in american history. "their reporting on the watergate scandal broke open "one of the biggest political scandals of the 20th century "and led to the resignation of a us president. "their work has inspired a new generation ofjournalists "and established a new standard for investigative reporting. "woodward and bernstein's legacy remains strong, "and their influence can still be felt throughout "american journalism today." let me tell you something — what ijust read to you was written by chatgpt. it came about after 30 seconds, and we wrote into chatgpt, "write a research document about the life and work of "the journalists woodward and bernstein, including "the watergate scandal." and within 30 seconds, ai — artificial intelligence — scoured the internet and popped that back up. well, that's worth talking about.

thank you very much indeed! i mean, what ai is going to do — or can do — all of these big tech firms have been working on that, i happen to know personally, for years, hiring 1,000 professors from universities in order to dip into this and explain it. but here's something ai can't do, and this is important. i can call the pentagon and say, "i'd like to talk to the chairman of the joint chiefs, "the top military man," and he's either going to talk, or maybe not. he said publicly that he talked to me at length. ai can't do that. but also, take a look at what you read is — whether it's produced by al or what its origins are, it's an amalgam of things that have been written about us. i recognise the language in part of it.

i recognise part of the language from a brochure from this conference. so, let's not be too enamoured. yes, ai is a huge force that we're going to have to grapple with in this world. but in terms of the particular question you asked, i kind of like the appropriateness of our answers, both in terms of the larger question about the force of ai, as well as the limitations of what you read there. some things don't change. woodward is now 80 years old, bernstein, 79. they've been colleagues and friends for the majority of their lives. which of bob's scoops have you been mostjealous of? notjealous — honoured to be a part of, as well as to sit back and say, "this is how it's done. "he knows how to do it." what do you owe carl bernstein? a great deal.

we started working on the watergate story, i was the night police reporter and sent to the courthouse when the burglars came in. and carl and i were two of six people who contributed to the first story. the next day was a sunday. and two people came in to work on sunday, knowing one of the rules ofjournalism — there's always a good follow—up to a good story. and this was a good story. and there's carl, the chief virginia political reporter, me, still doing night police. and we did our first story together. but he — look, here's the moment in my life that was so important. and he said, "now, we've got to go see these people "in their homes.

"it will be a waste of time to go in their... "..to see them in the office. "and so, we need to knock on doors." that's bernstein u. that'sjournalism university. and... it's common sense. yeah, but whatever common sense it was, i didn't know it. well, long, long may your partnership continue. 0k. thank you both so much for your example, and for your time. it's been a real privilege. bob woodward, thanks so much, and carl bernstein, great to see you. good to be with you. thank you so much. i really appreciate it.

hello there. good evening. the cloud and the sunshine amounts, along with the temperature, will vary over the next few days or so. the sunshine has been best today across england and wales. his beautiful pembrokeshire, lots of blue skies as captured here's beautiful pembrokeshire, lots of blue skies as captured by our weather watcher earlier on today, but cloudier for many parts of scotland, with a weak weather fronts sinking southwards. now, high pressure is set to stay with us. it will keep us dry and settled as we head through the rest of the bank holiday weekend, some more warm, sunny spells. don't forget, the sun is strong at this time of year and the uv levels will be high. now, as we head through this evening and overnight, it will cloud over across parts of northern ireland and western scotland we will keep the clear skies for eastern scotland here. temperatures, if we see any prolonged spells, could drop prolonged clear spells, could drop very close to freezing. of course, it's milder across england and wales, some cloud just moving into north sea, facing coasts again into sunday morning.

just moving into north sea facing coasts again into sunday morning. now, sun is looking cloudier, pretty much across the board all week. cold front is still sinking its way southwards as we head throughout the day. just introducing a lot more cloud cloudy four north sea facing coast with that onshore breeze, of course, cloudy across northern ireland. and for much of western scotland, the best of the sunshine on sunday will tend to be across western wales and the far south west of england, devon and cornwall, where temperatures will peak at 22 or 23 degrees celsius. always cooler, of course, towards the coasts. let's take a look at bank holiday monday and our high pressure still very much in control. but you see the wind starting to pick up the ice above, squeezing but you see the wind starting to pick up, the isobars squeezing closer together towards the south of the uk, really quite blustery across the channel islands and across parts of kent and sussex as well. there will be some more clouds just moving into north sea coast too. so generally windier and cooler across the south, the best of the sunshine across the far

south, west, west and wales and the sunshine not too badly either. across much of northern ireland and much of scotland where we could see highs of around 21 degrees celsius in the central belt on bank holiday monday. let's take a look at the rest of the week now. the high pressure is going nowhere. it is set to keep us dry and settled. there'll be variable amounts of sunshine day on day, always with this onshore easterly wind. then there'll be more cloud out towards eastern coastal areas and the best of the sunshine will tend to be further west. but temperatures gradually recover as we head through the week picking up into the mid 20s. watch out for one or two showers later on through the week.

live from london. this is bbc news. passport e—gates are now working normally at the uk's ports after a breakdown caused long queues for thousands of arrivals. tv presenter holly willoughby says she is hurt after phillip schofield's admission about a relationship with a younger itv colleague, which he previously denied to her. the post office here in the uk apologises for using racist language to describe branch managers who were wrongly prosecuted for theft. ukraine's most senior security official tells the bbc the country is ready to launch its long—expected counter—offensive against russian forces. the french film anatomy of a fall wins this year's palme d'0r award